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Message
From: Jarnail A Singh [IMCEAEX-
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67E9-4ECA-94F2-0057 16658847 @C72A47.ingest.local]
on Jarnail A Singh <IMCEAEX-
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of 67E9-4ECA-94F2-0057 16658847 @C72A47.ingest.local> [IMCEAEX-
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Sent: 13/07/2012 10:25:36
To: Susan Cricht
CC: Alwen Lyons !~
Subject:RE: Wylie - Def
I; Hugh Flemington:
Susan
Thank you very helpful, although terms of reference does mention “ Studying relevant evidence with regard to the
‘Horizon’ system” can this be deleted?
of course request for a should be resisted and I set out the law and grounds in my c mail of 10" of July
2012. Please let me know if i
can share terms of reference with our agents Cartwright king and can I speak to Ronan Kelleher from PR and
media with possible press release.
jarnail
From: Susan Crichton
Sent: 11 July 2012 18:29
To: Jarnail A Singh; Hugh Flemington; Alwen Lyons
Cc: Jorja Preston
Subject: RE: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Jarnail
The situation is as follows; Alice Perkins and Paula Vennells following a number of meetings with MP's notably James
Arbuthnot and Oliver Letwin agreed that POL would work with a number of MP's to review cases that have been raised by
their constituents. AP and PV requested that we find an independent forensic accountant who might be able to take this
on, I proposed 2" Sight but their work will be limited to a review of the cases raised by MP's and at the present there is no
intention to undertake a full forensic review of the Horizon system. I attach the draft proposed terms of reference for 2"¢
Sight, in addition please note that they have not yet been appointed and have merely carried out a small amount of
preliminary work. They will not be appointed until a meeting with the JFSP has taken place tomorrow evening, please also
note that the JFSP do not have a veto on their appointment which was agreed at a meeting with a number of MPs last
week but James Arbuthnot is trying to ensure that as many of the interested parties are in agreement to this as the way
forward.
POL has no reason to believe that there is any issue with the integrity of the Horizon system and the current investigation
is limited in scope and number of cases.
I hope this helps
Susan Crichton
Legal and Compliance Director
Post Office Limited
148 Old Street
London
ECIV 9HQ
Telephone} GRO i
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From: Jarnail A Singh
Sent: 11 July 2012 16:54
To: Susan Crichton; Hugh Flemington; Alwen Lyons
Cc: Jorja Preston
Subject: RE: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Susan/ Alwen/Hugh I need to address and to prepare counter arguments to issues which are being raised and will be
raised by defence lawyers ,after POL announced that 2” sight{ forensic audit )will conduct
Review of the Horizon system even though pol say Horizon is robust. when challenged has always successfully defended
the system in high profile criminal trials in crown courts .Defence Lawyers will say
“Why appoint forensic auditor to examine the system”.
Can you please help me with the following in order for me to put” flesh on the bones “;
Reasons for the appointment of forensic auditor to examine the system.
What is second sights remit.
What will they look at or are asked to review. Or what is being undertaken or not..
Are they reviewing , few, several or some isolated cases only.
Are they real looking and examining the Horizon system or in reality looking or examining certain branch accounting
procedures and processes.
Anything that you may consider useful .
it may be considered useful at some stage to have a press release to reconfirm the integrity and robustness of the
system but in additional including the remit of second sight?
Sorry for the twenty Questions but we have to be ready for the challenges.
Thank you.
From: Susan Crichton
Sent: 11 July 2012 13:02
To: Jarnail A Singh; Hugh Flemington; Alwen Lyons
Cc: Jorja Preston
Subject: Re: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Ok will ask Jorja to fix but it may take some time to get it in the diary.
From: Jarnail A Singh
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 01:58 PM
To: Hugh Flemington; Susan Crichton; Alwen Lyons
Subject: RE: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Susan/Alwen {had a meeting with Hugh, he has suggested we all have a meeting to discuss the above.
i suggest a 30 minute slot please.
Thank you.
From: Hugh Flemington
Sent: 11 July 2012 09:25
To: Jarnail A Singh
Subject: RE: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
No
Let’s meet — am free after team meeting today
From: Jarnail A Singh
Sent: 11 July 2012 09:23
To: Hugh Flemington
Subject: RE: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
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Hi Hugh Do you want me copy Dave Pardoe in. Jarnail.
From: Hugh Flemington
Sent: 10 July 2012 17:44
To: Jarnail A Singh
Subject: RE: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Yep!
From: Jarnail A Singh
Sent: 10 July 2012 17:17
To: Hugh Flemington
Subject: Re: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Hi It look like your meeting over run.can you make time tomorrow. Thanks jarnai
From: Hugh Flemington
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 05:31 PM
To: Jarnail A Singh
Subject: RE: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Let’s discuss after my next meeting
From: Jarnail A Singh
Sent: 10 July 2012 16:03
To: Hugh Flemington
Subject: RE: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Hugh—if I can have some answers steer and stance, I can then advice cartwright king and have input from them.
iwould still need further information to go to counsel. Thanks jarnait
From: Hugh Flemington
Sent: 10 July 2012 15:49
To: Jarnail A Singh
Subject: RE: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Ok and are you able to advise Susan and I on this or do you want to go to Counsel?
From: Jarnail A Singh
Sent: 10 July 2012 15:48
To: Hugh Flemington
Subject: RE: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Hugh
What we say to;
-.1. To simply respond by saying Horizon is robust will be met with, "If so why the audit .
2.1f Defendant says he did not stole any money and blames the Horizon .Defence solicitors
Will argue, this is down to errors in the system case should be stayed or adjourned until such time
reports
Finding are published.
3.Do we agree to defendants request for stay or adjournment pending completion of the audit
report
Or let the court decide.
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4.What are we going to do with existing ,pending and future investigations and losses.etc
Regards.
jarnail
Sent: 10 July 2012 13:34
To: Jarnail A Singh
Cc: Susan Crichton
Subject: Re: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
What more info etc do you need plse?
From: Jarnail A Singh
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 01:43 PM
To: Hugh Flemington; Susan Crichton
Subject: RE: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Hugh/Susan --
The Law on application to stay a case until or unless the auditors has reported will be based on abuse of process
argument. The issue for the abuse hearing is whether the defence can show that the Defendant
Will not receive a fair trial. This case of Wylie is not a case where post office limited is guilty of any fault let alone of
serious fault to the extent that the case should be stay, irrespective of whether a fair trial is possible.
In this case there has been no misuse or manipulation of the courts process, The post office has acted properly
throughout. The law is a stay is an exceptional remedy of last resort.
Post office position would be, system is working properly and used up and down the country and, there is no forensic or
legal grounds for stay.
However we are where we are ,with the forensic auditors to examine the Horizon in public domain we have to formally
address the issues raised by defence solicitors and if the defence summit to the judge
“Post office say Horizon is robust” but have appointed forensic auditor to examine the system? ,in the circumstances
pending the outcome of the audit judge may take the view it is right that there should be a thorough examination of
the defendants concerns about the Horizon. ,if an adjournment/stay would allow the defendant to have a fair trial then
that would be an appropriate remedy.
{need more information and advice to address these concerns,
Jarnail.
From: Jarnail A Singh
Sent: 09 July 2012 14:24
To: Hugh Flemington; Susan Crichton
Subject: FW: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Hugh/Susan— please see cartwright kings email. I raised this with you and briefly discussed this with Hugh last week
with our possible approach or view. No doubt it will be tested in the courts or until or unless
Second sight has reported. jarnail
From: Andy Cash [mailio:!
Sent: 09 July 2012 12:30 °
To: Jarnail A Singh
Subject: FW: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Dear Jarnail,
I will forward original advice, but this woman was always going to challenge Horizon. I take the
view that we now need a clear steer from the centre. Defence are likely to seek a stay. To simply
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respond by saying Horizon is robust will be met with, "If so why the audit ?". At present we do not
have information to meet this sort of challenge. Please advise.
Andy
From: Rachael Panter
Sent: 09 July 2012 11:19
To: Andy Cash
Subject: Wylie - Def sols raising Horizon investigation
Morning Andy
As anticipated, please see attached letter from defence solicitors in Wylie asking for our position on
the ongoing Horizon investigation.
Steve Bradshaw is the investigator in this case. I have given Steve our copy of the Fujitsu report
which deals with the old Horizon system - (the old system being relevant in this case due to the
period of wrongdoing). Steve is in the process of getting the committal papers together before the
committal hearing which is listed for the 7th August at Newcastle Mags.
Let me know how you would like me to respond,
regards
Rachael
Rachael Panter
CartwrightKing
sommes <2 7 a 2 5 ema
Nottingham I Birmingham { Derby I Leicester I Sheffield I Newcastle Gateshead
Norwich Union House, South Parade, Old Market Square, Nottingham, NG1 2LH
www.cartwrightking.co.uk
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