POL00294779
POL00294779
From: Susan Crichton[/O=MMS/OU=EXCHANGE ADMINISTRATIVE GROUP
(FYDIBOHF23SPDLT)/CN=RECIPIENTS/CN=SUSAN CRICHTONCS5FA6431-DC28-49AB-8FOF-
BE4237A4AD4F]
Sent: Fri 18/02/2011 7:34:29 PM (UTC)
To: Paula Vennells:
Bogerdf_
Ce: David SimpsonI
Subject: Re: BBC Inside Out programme
We have written to the BBC today setting out our concerns and informing then that we believe that they have not complied with
their own editorial guidelines. We have asked them a) to ensure that they comply going forward and b) to respond to our
concerns.
Susan
From: Paula Vennells
To: Mike Granville; Kevin Gilliland; Mike Young; Susan Crichton; Rod Ismay; Alana Renner; Nick Beal; Angela Van-Den-Bogerd;
Mike Moores
Cc: David Simpson; Theresa Iles
Sent: Fri Feb 18 20:22:14 2011
Subject: Re: BBC Inside Out programme
Thank you Mike/David.
It is absolutely vital that we continue to be robust in our defence. This is brand damaging in the extreme.
Susan, should we/can we legally challenge the BBC - surely it's misleading reporting?
Paula
From: Mike Granville
To: Kevin Gilliland; Paula Vennells; Mike Young; Susan Crichton; Rod Ismay; Alana Renner; Nick Beal; Angela Van-Den-
Bogerd; Mike Moores
Sent: Fri Feb 18 15:36:13 2011
Subject: FW: BBC Inside Out programme
To keep you updated, the latest position with the Inside Out Midlands programme due to be broadcast on 28 Feb is
that we are sending over to the BBC the following responsive statement.
For further information, David Simpson has separately had an enquiry from the Mail on Sunday today — which appears
to be referring to the content of the last Inside Out (South) programme. He has responded to this with the same kinds
of lines as below.
Thanks
Mike
Post Office Statement
POL00294779
POL00294779
+ The Post Office will vigorously defend any legal action which questions the 100% accuracy of the
Horizon computer system in its branches.
* The Post Office is fully confident that the Horizon computer system in its branches, and all the
accounting processes around it, are absolutely accurate and reliable at all times.
+ The Horizon system has been subjected to full, independently-assured, robust testing procedures. The
Horizon information security processes meet the relevant industry standards which apply to such
organisations as banks and building societies.
+ Subpostmasters are given fully appropriate training, typically including classroom training and a further
time on site under close supervision and guidance from a Post Office manager. Subpostmasters can also
ring a dedicated helpline for advice.
* The Horizon system has operated successfully for over 10 years across the Post Office network, which
currently stands at more than 11,500 branches. With literally millions of accounting balances being
successfully completed by subpostmasters over this period, the very small number of branches with the
kinds of alleged accounting issue as displayed in your programme are a minute proportion of the total.
* The National Federation of Subpostmasters, which vigorously represents the views and interests of
subpostmasters around the entire country, has gone on record on a number of occasions to express its
full confidence in the accuracy and robustness of the Horizon system.
+ The Horizon system provides detailed records of every transaction, no matter how small or large, in
any individual Post Office branch. A separate secure tamper proof transaction log is maintained which
provides the detail of all transactions from each counter within the network.
+ The Post Office fully investigates discrepancies found in subpostmaster accounts. It acts fairly
throughout these investigations. There are clear processes, including appeal procedures, for
subpostmasters in those cases where Post Office Ltd are ending a sub postmaster’s contract. If there are
any subsequent legal proceedings, these are undertaken within all normal legal protocols and guidelines.
+ The Post Office handles large sums of public money as well as the money entrusted to it by the 20
million people who visit our branches each week. The Post Office rightly makes every effort and takes all
reasonable steps to protect the money in its care.
In the three cases indicated by the BBC programme Inside Out,
the issue is that subpostmasters have been unable to account for losses of Post Office money in their
care.
Mr Kooner was found to have a shortage in his Post Office accounts of around £15,000 in April 2009. At
the point of the audit he signed a statement saying that he expected the accounts to be short.
As a subpostmaster Mr Kooner was contractually responsible for the cash and stock in his care. Given the
amount missing his contract was ended. Mr Kooner appealed this decision and the case was looked at again in
accordance with the full appeal procedures which are established by Post Office Ltd. The decision was not
changed. Mr Kooner has now repaid the monies owed to the Post Office.
There is no evidence that the Horizon system is, in any way, implicated in the shortages found at the branch.
Mr Wilson was found in September 2008 to have a shortage in his Post Office accounts of around £27,000
which he said was an accumulation of losses that had built over five years. He subsequently pleaded guilty to
two charges under the Fraud Act at Worcester Crown Court in June 2009.
Mr Wilson was given appropriate training in line with any other subpostmaster and also had access to a
helpline (which is open until 2000 on Wednesdays — the day that subpostmasters will typically finalise their
accounts).
POL00294779
POL00294779
There is no evidence that the Horizon system is, in any way, implicated in the shortages found at the branch.
Mrs Shaheen was suspended following an audit at her office in September 2009 which found a shortage of
over £40,000 in the Post Office cash and stock in her care. She subsequently pleaded guilty to a charge under
the Fraud Act at Shrewsbury Crown Court.. Mrs Shaheen was given appropriate training and support in line
with any other subpostmaster.
There is no evidence that the Horizon system is, in any way, implicated in the shortages found at the branch.
Mike Granville
Head of Regulation Strategy
Post Office Ltd
=" 1st Floor, Banner Street Wing, 148 Old Street, LONDON EC1V 9H1Q
From: Mike Granville
Sent: 14 February 2011 08:24
To: Kevin Gilliland; Paula Vennells; Mike Young; Susan Crichton; Rod Ismay; Alana Renner; Nick Beal; Angela Van-Den-
Bogerd; Mike Moores
Subject: BBC Inside Out programme
To keep you updated.
Unfortunately we have now heard from the Midlands variant of ‘Inside Out’, who are looking to run a similar piece to
their BBC counterparts at the end of February. The BBC has sent a note to David Simpson that we would need to
respond to by the end of this week. The details are at the end of this e-mail. Our first stage will be to gather any
information that we have on the particular cases concerned. I'll keep all informed on progress.
Thanks
Mike
Dear David
Further to our telephone conversation on Wednesday morning, please find below details about the film we are making for Inside
Out Midlands about sub-post offices.
I would be grateful if you could let me know as soon as possible whether you would like to put someone from the Post Office
up for interview to discuss the points raised. If you choose to provide us with a statement, could I ask that this is emailed to me
by 5.30pm on Friday 18 February.
I would also be grateful if you could confirm you have received this email. Thank you.
Please do not hesitate to get in touch if you would like to discuss anything further. My mobile number is!
POL00294779
POL00294779
Best regards
Neil Leighton
Film background
The film, which is due to be broadcast on BBCI (Midlands) at 7.30pm on Monday 28 February, examines the issue of sub-
postmasters and mistresses who are being investigated, accused — and sometimes prosecuted - for false accounting and/or theft.
We have looked at three cases from our region. These are:
(1) Kam Kooner - Rugeley, Staffordshire
Kam, who ran a sub-post office in Rugeley and another in Narborough, Leicestershire, says he was suspended after an audit
found a £14,000 shortfall. Kam maintains he didn’t steal the money and, while he accepts he should have flagged up the
issue, feels he hasn't been treated fairly. He says he paid the money back and offered to let the Post Office search his house
and look at his accounts, but it wasn’t interested. Kam says his contract has now been terminated and he’s been forced to
sell both businesses. He believes the shortfall was caused by an error in the Horizon system.
(2) Julian Wilson, Astwood Bank, Redditch, Worcestershire
Julian says he had problems balancing the books from day one. He claims he flagged this up with Post Office staff but was
told not to worry as it would resolve itself. Julian says it was difficult to get assistance from the helpline, as it was often busy
and it closed too early the day (Wednesday) he was doing his accounts.
Julian pleaded guilty to false accounting over a £28,000 shortfall. He says he didn’t steal the money and thinks either a
system or human error is to blame. Julian is critical of the training he received and says sub-postmasters are largely left to
train themselves from manuals. Julian says he was offered a ‘plea bargain’ and had little choice than to plead guilty to false
accounting - as it was that or risk being found guilty of the more serious charge of theft.
(3) Rubbina Shaheen, Greenfields Post Office, Shrewsbury, Shropshire
Rubbina was sentenced to a year in prison after pleading guilty to false accounting. The shortfall in this case was more than
£43,000. We spoke to her husband Mohamed. He accepts they were aware there was a shortfall, but says they did not steal
the money. Mohamed said they contacted the Post Office and asked for someone to come and help them, but no-one came.
Mohamed is also critical of the Post Office’s helpline and the training they received. He also said his wife felt she had little
choice than to plead guilty to the lesser charge when the case went to court. Mohamed believes the shortfall was caused by
a system or human error.
We have also talked to an IT expert who has looked at some paperwork connected to a few cases (including Rubbina
Shaheen’s). He says there could be a problem with the Horizon system or it could be down to human error - but we won't
know until the system is looked at by independent experts. He believes the Post Office should allow this to happen.
And we also plan to use an interview with a lawyer from Shoosmiths, which is preparing civil action against the Post Office.
She says 55 people have contacted them about this issue and they all claimed the computer system was causing problems.
She says there were issues with things like lack of training and helpline support, but it all seems to come down to what is
stored in the system. She says it has to be more than coincidence this is happening to so many people.
Key Points
From the comments and claims made above, I wondered whether the Post Office would give its response to the following
points:
© Whether there is — or ever has been - a problem with the Horizon computer system
* If there isn’t a problem with the system sub-postmasters are using, why so many people are finding themselves in
this position
POL00294779
POL00294779
© What the Post Office has done to investigate this issue
« Whether the training and IT/accounting support sub-postmasters receive is adequate for the role they have to
perform
« Whether sub-postmasters who are accused or false accounting and/or theft are treated fairly
Mike Granville
Head of Regulation Strategy
Post Office Ltd
‘='] 1st Floor, Banner Street Wing, 148 Old Street, LONDON EC1V 9H1Q
¥mike.granville@ I