To:
MR JOHNSON
From:
DAVID SIBBICK
-GRO
STEERING BRIEF FOR “fe
NOVEMBER 1999
noham.Palace.Road
ci:
Secretary of State
Sir Michael Scholar
Mr Macdonald
Mr Davis
Mrs Britton
Mr Hosker
Mr Tee
Mr mer
Mr Leese
Mr Whitehead
Mrs Wright
Mr Halls
Ms Madson
Mr Robinson
Ms Anderson
Mr Corry
Ms Moore
tfo Ss,
ZON WORKING GROUP 7th MEETING 15
BEIS0000224
BEIS0000224
(Joy
CGBPS
FRM
NEWS
PORT
PORT
CGBPS1
CGBPS 2
NEWS
NEWS
CGBPS1
SpAdv
SpAdv
1. This is the re-run of last Monday’s abortive meeting, and this time Mr Rooker
will not only be fully briefed by DSS/BA officials, but will be accompanied by a posse
of them. You have again decided to devote the whole of this meeting to the
presentation which Mr Rooker and his officials will make to the Group on the DSS/BA
plan for migrating the paper-based methods of making social security payments at post
offices to payments made electronically via the Automated Credit Transfer System
(ACT) into bank accounts. I suspect however that it may be difficult to avoid
altogether the OBCS payment issue, and the Child Benefit mailshot, on which you
have my separate submission (yesterday’s date). DSS/BA officials will be briefed to
speak on both as necessary.
2. Following last Monday’s meeting Mr Rooker wrote to you (9 November) on the
Child Benefit mailshot, and on migration to ACT. We are checking with his office
that he has no objection to circulation of his letter to the HWG, and subject to that we
DATEMP\TO2\7MEETO1.DOC
BEIS0000224
BEIS0000224
will circulate copies at the meeting. We will provide a draft reply shortly after
Monday’s meeting, sweeping up any follow-up action from the meeting as necessary.
3. There are essentially three assurances which the Group will be looking for from
Mr Rooker and a number of clarifications.
e First, that DSS/BA have no plans to make any changes to the existing methods and
basis of payment between now and 2003;
e Second, that whilst after 2003 BA will be free to persuade benefit recipients to
move to ACT and to offer whatever incentives they believe to be appropriate, these
will fall short of compulsion; and
Third, that DSS/BA are indeed fully signed up to the Government's assurance that
all benefit recipients who wish to do so will continue to be able to access their
benefits in cash at post offices both before and after the migration.
4. A key clarification concerns the latest DSS/BA assessment of the core of people
who will decline payment into a bank account, together with those for whom for one
reason or another a bank account would not be appropriate, and their proposals for
dealing with these (BA are likely to say that a great deal of further research and
thought is needed, probably extending over the next couple of years, and that they will
work with POCL as they develop their policy on this).
5. Asecond clarification concerns the latest DSS/BA assessment of the
willingness of banks to take on very large numbers of additional accounts, many of
whom will in a traditional sense be of the kind which the banks in the past have found
to be unprofitable. If the banks decide that they will only make accounts available to
DATEMPATOR7MEETOI.DOC 25
BEIS0000224
BEIS0000224
this group of benefit recipients if they are paid for doing, so or if they are able to
impose a significant level of bank charges, how will DSS/BA respond, and how will it
affect the economics of the move to ACT?
6. I Wealso need assurances that BA will indeed work closely with POCL to ensure
that the migration works as smoothly and effectively as possible to maximise the
benefit to both organisations.
1s The separate issue of the payment which BA are to make to POCL for operating
the Order Book Control Service (OBCS) and the reinstatement of the guaranteed
minimum payment, remains unresolved. At last Monday’s meeting Stuart Sweetman
confirmed that the two sides had moved closer together, and were talking again, but
that there was still some way to go. The Group will doubtless be keen to hear at first
hand the DSS/BA reaction, and how they now see this issue being taken forward. You
have now written to Alistair Darling seeking a meeting with him on this.
8. Finally, I think it would be useful if you could agree with Mr Rooker that there
should from time to time be further similar meetings so that each side can update the
other on developments and hopefully iron out potential difficulties before they arise.
9. I attach at Annex A our letter setting out the Agenda for the meeting and at
Annex B a list of attendees.
DAVID SIBBICK
DATEMP\TOZ\7MEETO1.DOC 38