ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Friday, 21 June 2024
(9.45 am)
MR BLAKE: Good morning, sir, can you see and hear me?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, thank you very much.
MR BLAKE: Thank you very much. This morning we're going to
hear from Mr Thomson.
GEORGE RITCHIE THOMSON (sworn)
Questioned by MR BLAKE
MR BLAKE: Can you give your full name, please?
A
a
2
prop
oP
George Ritchie Thomson.
Thank you very much. Mr Thomson, you should have in
front of you a witness statement --
Ido.
-- with the Unique Reference Number of WITN00970100.
It's dated 23 May 2024; is that correct?
That's correct.
Could I ask you to turn to the final substantive page,
page 31.
I'm there.
Can you confirm that is your signature?
That, indeed, is my signature.
Thank you. Is that statement true to the best of your
knowledge and belief?
It certainly is.
Thank you very much.
Can we turn please to paragraph 25, that's on
page 9. Halfway down page 9, thank you. You say there:
"We have always known that the Horizon system is
systemically robust and is still giving a great service
to our clients ..."
You carry on to say:
"Only a very small number of users of the Horizon
system over the last 25 years have claimed problems and
any time these problems were raised, in particular
remote access, admin reversals, [Post Office] denied
this could happen."
Over the page, please, 26. You say:
"The NFSP under my stewardship believed
fundamentally that Horizon was a robust system without
any systemic fault issues. In my estimation over
100,000 people have used the system since 1999 carrying
out billions of transactions worth hundreds of billions
of pounds with only a tiny percentage claiming to have
problems with Horizon."
Moving on to paragraph 33, please, page 12. Bottom
of page 12 and into page 13, please. At the bottom of
that paragraph, over the page slightly, you address
Mr Castleton's case. If we scroll down you say:
"On the issue of Horizon, I completely disagreed and
still disagree with Mr Castleton that the Horizon system
3
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
rPOrPOrPOrF OPO,
21 June 2024
Mr Thomson, you joined the Post Office at 18 years
of age as a Postal Officer: is that right?
That's correct.
You became, at some stage, branch manager?
That's correct.
You joined the NFSP as a member in 1992?
That's correct.
You became a member of the Executive Council from 2004?
Yes.
You were elected General Secretary in 2007?
Yes.
When did you finish your term as General Secretary?
Early 2018, I was planning to go home, I was planning to
leave anyway but I probably left about six months before
I was going to because my family needed me back in
Scotland.
Thank you. I'd like to bring back up on to screen your
witness statement, please. It's WITN00970100. I'm just
going to take you through some passages from your
statement.
Paragraph 1, you say:
“In my estimation well over 100,000 people have used
the Horizon system between 1999 and 2004 and only
a small amount of users have had problems with the
system."
is not robust."
34, if we scroll down, you say:
"Subpostmasters were always very uptight when the
Audit Team turned up because they knew they would go
through everything to make sure that it was all
accounted for."
A few sentences on, you say:
"When this happens it always brings angst to the
subpostmaster community, and significant discrepancies
can lead to a major change in the subpostmasters life
circumstances."
Page 15, paragraph 37, still on Lee Castleton. You
say:
"Lee Castleton came to us I recall after he was
terminated and was therefore no longer a subpostmaster.
He had never been a member. If no one paid their
membership dues until they were in trouble, there would
be no organisation.”
Paragraph 38, we scroll over the page, please. The
bottom of the page, you say:
"Firstly, I don't believe that the actual operating
Horizon system is covered in scandal but instead is
a robust operating system without systemic problems. As
I write this statement it is being used every day for
millions of transactions and for an ever-increasing
4
(1) Pages 1-4
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
proportion of the nation's banking needs.”
Paragraph 39, over the page.
“It is blindingly apparent to me from the volume of
transactions carried out by the network and the very
small number of users of the system that claim problems
that it is a tiny fraction of the transactions that
Horizon has processed over its lifetime that went
wrong."
Paragraph 46, that's over the page, please. You
say:
"Funds owed to [Post Office] growing significantly
as any shortage is now mostly blamed on Horizon [you're
talking about the present day Post Office]. Indeed,
[Post Office] management were instructed to write off
300-400 convictions by the government as part of the
general amnesty they announced for affected
subpostmasters.
"Let me reiterate that the NFSP under my leadership
that Horizon was robust without systemic weaknesses, the
sheer volume of transactions against the small
percentage of claims proves beyond any doubt that the
system was robust.”
Over the page, please, paragraph 49:
"I stated previously, over 100,000 people worked on
the Horizon system between to 1999 and 2024 doing
5
items have always painted Horizon as not fit for
purpose, systemically faulty, and that every single
mistake made in the [Post Office] network is the fault
of Horizon. This viewpoint is not only factually
incorrect but has damaged the brand and post offices all
over the UK. This is my reason for the strong words
lused."
You're referring there to a particular document.
Finally, paragraph 67, that's page 25, again you're
referring to a document I'll take you to in due course.
You say:
"My concern is that the Horizon programme, the
Panorama programme, ITV's docudrama and ITV's news
coverage in particular since then had given the
impression that the Horizon system is systemically
faulty and not fit for purpose. This is of course
nonsense which, in hindsight, would have been a better
word to use instead of 'BS'."
Looking at your statement and those passages that
I've taken you to, do you think there might be something
in the suggestion that you lacked sympathy for the
accused subpostmasters?
No, it's just a fact. It's a fact of life. Horizon was
dealing with billions of pounds worth every week of
Government benefits when it first came in. Two weeks
7
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
billions of transactions worth hundreds of billions of
pounds including Government benefit work, DVLA work,
Passport Office work, Royal Mail letters and parcels
over the same period. A very small number of our
members complained that Horizon was faulty."
Moving on a couple of sentences, you say:
“At audit it was business as usual and some
subpostmasters were unhappy that discrepancies had been
discovered by the [Post Office] team."
Paragraph 54, page 21. You say:
"As previously stated, the NFSP believed that
Horizon was systemically robust and I believed when
I left in early 2018 and still do as a private
individual."
Paragraph 59, that's over the page, page 22, you say
there:
"As previously stated, over 100,000 people have used
the system from 1999 to 2024 carrying out billions of
transactions worth hundreds of billions of pounds and
only a tiny proportion had complaints regarding faulty
Horizon usually verbalised at audit."
Paragraph 60:
"lonce again reiterate that the systemic robustness
of the system was never in question in my eyes ...
I have always believed that JFSA and many of the news
6
ago, it was announced that, in April this year, the same
system did just short of £3.5 billion of banking
transactions. So it's a strong system, it's a well-used
system and I still support it systemically as being very
robust. However, we're going to touch on other issues.
Itis very robust.
And if I can just go back to -- it was close run
thing if we even had the Horizon system. So Peter
Lilley in the mid-'90s announced a benefit card and,
when the Labour Government came in in '97, Horizon was
over budget by a significant sum. It was a year behind
schedule and, for a period, the Labour Government was.
going to push everybody to automatic credit transfer
into the bank. And we fought a rearguard action to do
two things. I wasn't General Secretary at the time but
I was very active in Scotland at the time and we fought
a rearguard action, including the Federation down at
Shoreham, to make sure Horizon went ahead. And I think
Royal Mail ended up buying Horizon for £500 million or
£600 million and to make sure that the Government still
allowed people to get their benefits at the Post Office.
So the Federation has always been supportive of
Horizon because Horizon was the difference between half
the network being closed down by the Government and no
benefits being paid at the Post Office from the year
8
(2) Pages 5-8
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
2000 onwards, so we've been very supportive of its
necessity for the Post Office Network for the last
25 years.
Mr Thomson, this Inquiry has heard about lives ruined,
people who have taken their own lives, bankruptcies,
imprisonment. Having looked at those passages that I've
just read to you, do you think that there might be
something in the suggestion that you lacked sympathy for
those accused subpostmasters?
No, I don't but what makes me angry is that the Post
Office on every occasion denied -- so in terms the
system being robust, it always has been. But the Post
Office always denied that there could be issues like
remote access or administration reversals, every time we
raised them. So the Post Office not telling the truth
is what annoys me, and the outcome, and the implication
that's had on individual subpostmasters who are still in
the network, and the people that had to leave for
various reasons and who are -- a lot of them are here
today.
Do you think you may have become too close to the Post
Office in your time as General Secretary of the National
Federation?
We always worked closely with the Post Office. The
issue -- and the Inquiry has not shown it and the press
9
a very, very strong supporter of Horizon to keep the
network open, to keep income running to subpostmasters,
and I'm still a strong supporter because it is still --
banking is bringing in, into the postmasters' packets,
as we speak, just now, into their salaries, about as
much as Royal Mail, in some branches. So banking is
becoming the number 1 issue for our members in terms of
banks closing and our members doing the banking for the
UK.
Mr Thomson, I want you to give full and frank answers
today.
Yes.
But, if we are going to finish today, I think could
I ask you to keep your answers relatively short?
Well, I'm here to tell the truth and I'm here to explain
the background for everything as well.
And I'm asking the questions and the question that
I just asked you was: were you too close to the Post
Office; and I think your answer to that is "No,
I wasn't".
No, I wasn't.
Let's look at funding of the NFSP.
Can we turn to NFSP00000951. This is the first
topic, funding. I'm going to move on chronologically to
development over time. This a letter from 2013, sent by
1
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2
21 June 2024
haven't shown it, our members were never workers. Our
members were self-employed business people who purchased
a franchise off the previous subpostmaster and, on many
occasions, had to give the Post Office 25 per cent when
the network was doing very well and the franchise was
doing well; they had their own staff, they had to
dismiss some of their staff if there were errors; they
had their own lawyers; they had their own accountants.
So our people were never workers in the sense of
working directly for the Post Office. They actually are
small business people who went into a contract with
their eyes wide open, and we believed that the Horizon
system -- and I still do -- it wouldn't be doing
£3.5 billion a month banking, as we speak, if it was not
a robust system. In fact, I believe that there's
probably going to be a three or four-year extension to
the Horizon system for the next three or four years and,
no doubt, the business transactions will be increasing
dramatically.
So I wouldn't say I was close to the Post Office
cover it. I've always been as supportive of Horizon, or
more supportive from the very get-go. In other words,
some senior managers in the year 1999 or 2000 would have
been far less affected than my members if Horizon had
never been implemented in the first place. So I've been
10
the Certification Office -- or, sorry, a response to the
Certification Office. Can you recall in 2013 the issue
of the NFSP's independence being questioned by the
Certification Office.
I certainly can.
Who were the Certification Office?
Well, basically, they decide if you qualify to be
a trade union or not and, at that time, we had a small
section of postmasters who have broken away and joined
the Communication Workers Union, as is their right to do
so, and, not that long after that happened, someone
wrote in to the Certification Officer to say that they
did not believe that we qualified as a trade union, and
that happened to be the case and it happened to be the
case because, to be a trade union, the majority of your
members must be classified as workers.
So, unfortunately for the Federation, all our
members, every one of our members, was a self-employed
entrepreneur, a self-employed businessperson, so
therefore, we were delisted by the Certification
Officer. We did not want that to happen. It may have
happened further down the line, if we had instigated it,
maybe another two or three years, but it was pre-judged.
Someone put -- I don't know who it was, I've got my
suspicions, it doesn't really matter now -- but a letter
12
(3) Pages 9 - 12
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
p>po>
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
was put in and, unfortunately, I remember speaking to
the Certification Office, they said, "Look, you almost
certainly shouldn't have been recognised as a trade
union in the first place because you've always
represented self-employed people, rather than workers".
Thank you. Mr Thomson, it would be nice if I could get
a question in from time to time today.
Let's stick with this document. This document isn't
addressing that issue. So there were two issues with
independence: one was whether subpostmasters satisfied
the legal requirements as employees or workers,
et cetera. But this was a first issue and that was
actually about the independence of the NFSP; do you
recall that issue?
Yes.
This is your response to that complaint, is it?
That's my response, yes.
So I'm just going to take you through this letter. It
starts as follows:
"Thank you for your letter of 9 May, notifying me of
correspondence received by your office that raises
concerns about the NFSP's status as an independent trade
union within the meaning of Trade Union and Labour
Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992."
Then you go on to address each of the complaints.
13
and be General Secretary. My wife became the
postmistress she already worked there. I think the
rules have changed now. I don't really know because
I really don't have much to do with the Federation.
So would that amount pay for your wife. Where would
that go, that £175,000?
My wife wasn't active in the Federation, so it would
hardly pay for her. It's a strange question.
The suggestion here is that the amount pays for somebody
to work in the Post Office covering your duties?
Not me, all of our Executive Council are branch
officials or branch officers or chairmans of branches,
the actual structure of the Federation, not the General
Secretary. I got my wage from the Federation.
Thank you. If we scroll down, we then come on to other
commercial arrangements:
"The NFSP has for many years been in receipt of
commission income from the sale of insurance and other
finance service products.”
It says there:
"NFSP's initial agreement is for five years at
a commission rate of £80,000 per annum."
So you received £80,000 from commission from
insurance, so that's not related to income from the Post
Office; is that right?
15
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
>
21 June 2024
If we could scroll down, the first is union facilities
and you say as follows:
"The NFSP is currently in receipt of an annual grant
of £175,000."
Pausing there, May 2013, was that the main grant you
received from the Post Office, £175,000?
I can't recall because, during Network Transformation,
there were significant grants because our team were out
in the field at meetings virtually every night of the
week, up and down the UK. So there was significant
funds that way. However, most years it was the money
paid in lieu of union facility time that was our biggest
grant from the Post Office. Not every year but was
years that was the case.
That's this, the 175,000 --
That year. Some years it was higher than that.
Thank you. You say there:
"The grant enables an official to pay for
a substitute post office clerk whilst they undertake
union duties."
Did that cover anything for yourself in terms of
substitution of Post Office work. You didn't actually
run a Post Office, I don't believe, at this time, did
you?
Our rules at the time is you couldn't run a Post Office
14
It's right and it's wrong. We had a contract with
Zurich Insurance and we got significant funding from
Zurich commission because, obviously, we introduced them
to subpostmasters. The Post Office came along and said
they were going to launch -- as part of the financial
products they were launching, they were going to be
launching business insurance and they wouldn't like
a situation where they were competing with us pushing
forward Zurich.
So it was just a straightforward transaction, okay,
we get £60,000 or £80,000 a year from Zurich into the
Federation, if you want us to push the Post Office
business insurance, you've got to match that or we're
not going to do it, and that's what they agreed to do.
So there was also income relating to insurance
commission from the Post Office?
That's what I'm saying, yes. So it was Zurich for
a long time and then the Post Office, for a good few
years, were giving us about £60,000 or £80,000 a year,
I can't recall, it was 10 or 12 years ago, but it was
a significant sum of money. But it just replaced the
lost commission from Zurich.
So at this time, 2013, it seems as though you are
receiving income from Zurich. Oh, no -- so that was
terminated and then the £80,000 at this stage was paid
16
(4) Pages 13 - 16
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
by the Post Office?
I think that's correct and that's certainly what did
happen. I don't know if the dates were correct there.
Then advertisements in the SubPostmaster journal, it
says:
"The NFSP has a monthly members’ journal in which
advertising space is sold on a commercial basis. From
time to time [the Post Office] place advertisements and
is invoiced under normal commercial arrangements.
Invoiced advertisements for the year ended 31 December
2011 [nearly £13,000]", 2012, £11,000.
So a further, £11,000, £12,000 from the Post Office
for advertisements in the SubPostmaster journal --
Yes, that could be things like they had a savings
product and -- a savings product at the time they were
pushing, Instant Saver, it was called. I think it were
things like that. General Post Office products they
wanted us to push to our members but also to the wider
community as well.
Then the "NFSP conference":
"Representatives of [the Post Office] regularly
attend the NFSP's annual conference as visitors.
Additionally, in recent years, they have taken a stand
as part of a small exhibition held for the benefit of
members at conference, and have also sponsored the
17
had a franchise.
In terms of your own personal income, I think you said
you received an income from the NFSP. Did you also
receive an income from NFSP Trading Limited?
Never. I got my salary from the company and it was
a decent salary, so I didn't need it to be, you know,
supplemented elsewhere. Even though, I must say, that
when we were cutting back some of the costs, I actually
doubled up and was doing the retail side for a year.
I was never out of the Institute of Directors about 7.00
at night in London after my day job. But again, that
was me, you know, looking after the Federation, as the
Federation looked after me.
So 2013 we have the £175,000, £80,000; we have
an additional £12,000, or so from the advertisements; we
have the £7,000; we have the nearly £342,000 in relation
to the Network Transformation Programme. So in the year
2013, do you think the income from the Post Office would
be somewhere between £500,000 and £1 million or would it
be --
It might have been and, if you take into account, as
well, the fact that one of our key arguments for trying
to retain a bit of union status was because the Post
Office carried out check off for us, ie they took money
every month from our members' remuneration and they sent
19
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
21 June 2024
annual conference gala dinner. The total amounts
received from [the Post Office] in relation to these
items was [£7,000] and [£6,500] for the years ending
2011 and 2012 respectively.”
So there's further income from the Post Office in
relation to the NFSP conference and also the sponsorship
of the dinner. Then you say:
"Turning now to the specific amount of £341,850 for
‘Network Transformation and support activities’ referred
to in your letter, I comment as follows ..."
You set out there the various payments from the Post
Office to the NFSP: £250,000, £22,000, nearly £70,000.
Can you assist us, NFSP Trading Limited, what was that?
It was, if you like, a subsidiary of the main
organisation, dealing with retail and commercial. It
was never particularly successful but it was always
there and it has been -- I don't know if they've wound
it down now or if it's still there. But all these
figures you've given, they've been on the accounts for
years. Any member of the public could have read these.
We represented members who ran franchises for the
Post Office and we worked closely with the Post Office
because we both needed to have a successful franchise,
which is -- you know, that's the reality and it's not
surprising we worked closely with the Post Office as we
18
it to the Post Office. And, actually, if we had to put
something in place, it would have probably cost us maybe
ten times more than the Post Office could do it for.
But it's the same with the CWU. The CWU, they've
still got check off, which is worth a fortune to the
CWU. That means money every month or every week is
taken of your members’ salary and paid to the
organisation. So there's nothing that -- there's
nothing big there. And, as for the value of union
facilities -- and the CWU do a good job, I'm not
knocking them for a minute -- but their union facility
time, at the time you're talking about there, was many,
many millions of pounds a year more than the Federation.
Mr Thomson, can I just stop you there? I haven't made
any criticisms, I'm just taking you through the figures.
Yeah, I know. I'm trying to give you a better
understanding of the situation.
Could we please turn to NFSP00001464, please. This
a letter of 13 January 2014, and this is addressing the
point you made at the beginning. It's from the
Certification Office and, if we scroll down, we can see
it says:
"The Certification Office has now considered your
representations ..."
That's not just the representations we've just seen
20
(5) Pages 17 - 20
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
but further representations addressing the separate
matter that you've addressed. They say as follows:
“He has determined that National Federation of
SubPostmasters does not meet the definition of a trade
union provided in section 1 of the Trade Union and
Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act. Accordingly,
I must inform you that ... the National Federation of
SubPostmasters was removed from the list of trade unions
today, 13 January 2014."
So after an issue was raised about independence and
then a further issue was raised as to whether, in fact,
you could be a trade union in itself, it seems as though
the NFSP was removed from the list on 13 January 2014;
is that correct?
That's correct but I had a conversation -- I've got the
advantage over you -- I had a conversation with the
Certification Office and they told me it was because we
should never have been a trade union in the first place
and it was because our members were self-employed.
Because, if you use your logic for the first part of
your evidence, every trade union in Britain has check
off, you could argue are they totally independent? But,
of course, that would be a nonsense, wouldn't it,
because it doesn't stop them being independent just
because they've got a value of check off: the National
24
something else in its place would have cost us
a fortune. We would worried about our officials and our
branch secretaries being able to get money for being out
and about and having to cover their staff themselves.
So no. But that's not to say, that's not to say,
that two or three years time down the line, as we looked
at our future, then we may have decided to become
a trade association without that, you know, punch -- and
the bat that we had from the Certification Officer after
someone had complained.
Again, I've got my feeling that it was to do with
the group that went to the CWU but that's just my
thoughts.
Can we turn to POL00004484, and it's page 2. By the
summer of 2013, if we scroll down, you were negotiating
with the Post Office with regards to the future. This
is an email sent on your behalf. Who were Sue Barton
and Nick Beal, very briefly?
Post Office officials that we dealt with on a regular
basis. Sue was quite senior. Nick was less so.
So the summer of 2013:
"Dear Sue and Nick, to facilitate the best use of
time during the conference call this afternoon, I would
like to lay out a framework for potential agreement as
follows ..."
23
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24 A.
25 Q
21 June 2024
Health Service, all the unions there, the Royal Mail,
the local authorities. So I understand what you're
saying but I disagree with your logic.
Mr Thomson, were there implications, negative
implications, for the NFSP, of being removed? Might,
for example, there have been a possibility that you'd
have to give funds back to members -- a possibility?
There was no advantage whatsoever and, in fact, looking
at what we did, because it came as a shock the fact that
someone -- you know, we'd been a trade union for years,
and years, and years, albeit we operated like a trade
association, many, many aspects, retail advice, HR
advice, all these different things. So it came as a big
surprise, and I actually sat in my office with the
Finance Director, Philip Bloor, and I said to Philip,
you know, "The implications here, have we got a future?"
And I said, "We've got about a year and a half to make
‘our mind up what we're doing", and Philip said, "Look,
George, if you're looking after the staff and everything
in this building, make sure they get what they're due
and everything else, we've not got much more than half
a year to go".
So we certainly did not want to lose our trade union
status at this time. We were worried about check off,
losing the ability to get check off, which to put
22
There's there the following various items, and it's
number 4 that I'd like to look at, please:
"[The Post Office] and the NFSP to sign a 15-year
contract for the NFSP to represent all post office
operators. This will include:
"Financial agreement
"£500,000 payment [in] 2013-14
"£1.25 million payment 2014-15
"£1.25 million payment 2015-16
"[Going up to] £2.5 million payment [from] 2017 to
2028
"This process allows for the drop-off of our present
membership fee, and facilitates the change from check
off towards [Post Office] charging a fee from all agents
which is passed directly to the NFSP.
"Memorandum of Understanding to be worked on with
rights and responsibilities on both sides.
“If necessary, NFSP will drop the union badge to
sign contract
Now, pausing there, when you say "drop the union
badge", in fact, by this stage, you didn't have the
union badge or soon after, by early 2014, you didn't
have the union badge.
Yeah.
"Please note -- a signed agreement with the blood of
24
(6) Pages 21 - 24
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
both myself and Paula is necessary on the future of the
NFSP before any agreement is granted on either [Network
Transformation] and other points."
Now, at this point, the numbers of subpostmasters
was getting somewhat smaller, wasn't it?
A. Yes, it was, but there's other issues as well. The
franchise over -- from about the end of the ‘90s, the
franchise was struggling. Government were withdrawing
work, people were moving to the banks, particularly with
their benefits, automatic credit transfer. So the
franchise had not been as attractive as it used to be.
So what we did, working with Royal Mail Group,
working with Post Office Limited, we had Urban Network
Reinvention, that was the first one, we had 2,500
postmasters left with up to 26 months’ compensation.
The alternative was a lot of them would have went
bankrupt so they were quite happy. We then had Network
Change, again, roughly about another 2,500 left. And
then Network Transformation, which brings me right to
your question.
And what happened is for the majority of our
members, the biggest part of their business was the Post
Office income and that's how they were struggling. Some
of them had retail but our members tended to have small
retail. So we were losing people who were Post Office
25
A. It was decreasing not increasing.
Q. Thank you very much. The figures that we see here,
they're quite significant figures, raising from £500,000
to £2.5 million by 2017 --
A. That's because we --
- is that correct?
2
A. That's correct but we took on few functions and it was
to help postmasters to grow their income and to become
less reliant, so, within that money, what does it
include?
Q. I didn't ask what it included, all I'm asking is about
the figure, purely the figure. The figure is increasing
quite a significant amount, is your proposal, over
a small number of years, reaching £2.5 million from the
Post Office by 2017; do you agree with that or disagree
with that?
A. Iwas giving you a reason why --
Q. I didn't ask for the reason.
A. Well, that's what you're getting.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, Mr Thomson, I understand that
you're anxious to get across your point of view but, in
truth, it's much easier for me if Mr Blake asks the
question, you answer it, and then, if, at the end of
Mr Blake's questions, you feel that there are other
things that you want to say, then within reason, I will
27
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
21 June 2024
specialists, who had a bit of retail, who were active in
the Federation, who knew their councillors, who knew
their MPs. And they were all leaving, and it was
apparent to me that, if you were then transferring
a very small post office into a big convenience store
and it was, say, only one-tenth of his income, these
people were more involved in retail and they wouldn't
join a specialist organisation.
So every meeting I was at, for about two or three
years, every conference, every special conference, most
of the meetings with the Post Office, I would say,
“Look, we have saved the Network, we've saved the Post
Office but, as a result, it's the Federation that, in
effect, has killed itself off. That is not acceptable",
and when I at first --
Q. Mr Thomson, I'm going to have to stop you there.
That's fine.
All of we're addressing here is the finances and all my
question was was, at this time, the numbers of
subpostmasters was some what getting smaller?
Yeah, but --
Do you agree with that or disagree with that?
I'm giving you the reason why it's getting smaller -
I didn't ask for the reason, I just asked whether it was
oP
prop
increasing or not?
26
permit you to say that. All right?
But it will be much easier for today's progress if
you simply answer the question put to you and then, as
I say, if necessary, I'll afford you some time to wrap
up, so to speak. Okay?
A. Okay.
MR BLAKE: Let's move to POL00424024. Now, there are
meetings between yourself and the Post Office leadership
during the period 2013/2014, to discuss the future.
This is a briefing for the CEO of the Post Office. So
we're at 11 December 2014, and a meeting between
yourself and Paula Vennells; do you recall that meeting?
A. Yes, I had many, many meetings with Paula and Moya.
Yeah.
Q. Thank you. The purpose of the meeting is as follows:
"Purpose of meeting is to discuss current/emerging
strategic relationship with NFSP senior members."
There's further background if we scroll down,
please, "Grant agreement .../Network Development".
So we are going to see "MOU" mentioned a few times,
Memorandum of Understanding. Was that the proposal
we've just looked at, the emerging proposal that we've
just looked at?
A. Yeah.
Q. Thank you:
28
(7) Pages 25 - 28
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
"NFSP has now returned their marked-up diversion of
the MOU/Grant Agreement and there are a number of key
elements within their proposed changes to take account
of. Critically, as expected, they are asserting
a position that they will not engage in any detailed
discussions related to Network Development until the
[Grant Agreement] is signed and that the [Grant
Agreement] sets out clear parameters that do not provide
their support for any Network Development beyond that
defined in the current [Network Transformation] plan
The next paragraph I'll just read the final sentence
or a couple of sentences there:
"Signals from George privately are that he
understand the reality of the market and uncertainty in
the business around signing an agreement binding [the
Post Office] to make payments to NFSP without prior
agreement on Network Extension, albeit he is formally
asserting a position that the [Grant Agreement] is part
of [Network Transformation] and a dependency on them
supporting compulsion in [Network Transformation]."
So that's the status of the negotiations as at
11 December 2014. I'd like now to turn to POL00386638,
please. This is another brief for Paula Vennells,
5 February 2015 so these negotiations are going on 2013,
29
last year's [Network Transformation] discussions."
So it seems, by that stage, you've already agreed to
support Network Transformation; is that right?
Yeah, we were very supportive of Network Transformation
because of the conditions facing subpostmasters. The
franchise was becoming a busted flush, people couldn't
make a living and we got hundreds of millions of pounds
of Government funding to give people compensation to
leave or to give them big funds to stay and modernise,
and there was modernisation funds available, as well,
under Network Transformation.
It says:
“However NFSP have introduced a clause that requires
[Post Office] to pay 3 years (£7.5 million) in the event
of termination - which, from NFSP's perspective, could
only occur for a material breach."
So part of that discussion, as late as 2015, was
still about the financial position and how much money
the NFSP would have to be paid in the event that the
Post Office terminated the agreement; is that right?
It was, and it was important because it took a lot of
badgering for Paula to agree to the 15-year deal. And
I was wanting to make sure that if Network -- once
Network Transformation had finished, that the Post
Office couldn't just come along and get rid of the Grant
31
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
2014, into 2015; is that your recollection?
That's my recollection, yes.
We can see in brackets there, halfway down this page, it
says:
"Intent is not to discuss the MOU/Grant Agreement
but in the event this is raised, update as follows ..."
There are bullet points there for Ms Vennells. One
of them is:
"We believe, with careful consideration and
crafting, a suitably framed agreement that clarifies
termination events and has a break clause linked to
a review and termination payment will be a good deal for
NFSP and one that will ensure they have an independent
future."
So, by this stage, I think one of the main topics of
discussion between yourselves and the Post Office was
termination events, so whether and in what circumstances
the Post Office could terminate the agreement and also
whether they had to pay you money if they did so; is
that right?
That's correct.
If we scroll down, we can see "Further Background".
"Current NFSP position", as believed by the Post Office,
was that:
"The Grant Agreement is a given -- it was part of
30
Agreement. I think, having a Federation made
a difference, albeit -- albeit -- can I just say on that
particular point -- although I left six months before
I was going to, I had already decided that the new
world -- because I can be quite outspoken and
vociferous -- that the new world with a grant for me
wasn't a world I wanted to be part of.
So I'm being honest here, I'm here to be truthful,
I'm not here to make friends. So I already had some
concems that some of my teeth were being pulled when we
moved to the 15-year deal, maybe another operator could
do it, you know, maybe someone more compliant could do
it but I had decided that it wasn't for me and I was
going to move on.
So even though I left six months earlier for family
reasons, I'd already indicated -- so everybody in the
Federation new I was leaving anyway but I just left
a bit quicker.
Sticking with the bullet points:
"NFSP will not accept the principle of a break
clause linked to agreement to a termination payment.
"If no agreement is reached, NFSP have options --
most likely a merge with CWU."
Now, I don't need to take you to another document
but it looks as though merging with the CWU was, in
32
(8) Pages 29 - 32
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
reality, a bargaining chip on your part; would you agree
with that?
No, because the difficulty -- as an individual, I've got
a lot of -- massive respect for Billy Hayes, who was the
retired General Secretary, and massive respect for Dave
Ward, who is the present General Secretary. The big
reason -- I actually spoke to hundreds of postmasters
during this period and I always asked, "If we were going
to join, or in future if things were changing, would you
join the CWU?" And maybe one in four said they would,
but three-quarters made the point, "Look, George, we run
a franchise, we're business people, we don't want to
join the CWU".
So my concern was always that, if we joined the CWU,
I would have no problem with that but we probably would
not have taken much more than a quarter of our
membership. That was my concern. So, no, it wasn't
just a bargaining chip.
Perhaps we could keep this document on screen and I will
take you to that document. It's NFSP00001079. Perhaps
we can keep it up on screen as well. Thank you very
much.
This is a document that has 29 July at the top and,
if we scroll down, we see there a paragraph that begins
"30 July, Camden", and it's that last sentence there
33
frankly bankrupt and likely to merge with Unite within
that timescale."
Can we please turn to CWU00000011. This is an email
to members, 29 May, so we're now in the summer of 2015.
Itis a letter from yourself. You say, as follows:
"Lam very pleased to report that we have, after
protracted negotiation, reached a prospective agreement
with Post Office Limited, under which the NFSP will be
provided with grant funding for a period of 15 years.
This will allow for a period of stability for the NFSP
and enable it to continue to represent and promote
members’ interests. The detail of the prospective
agreement will be explained at the Conference."
So it seems that, by the summer of 2015, you had
agreed with the Post Office in principle; is that right?
My team and some of Paula's team could not believe that
the Post Office would concede to grant funding. You
know, some people would say "They can't agree to it,
George, because it’s akin to creating a closed shop,
where everybody, in effect, has to join". That's
been -- we got round that. So it was never a given, it
was never given we would get that off the Post Office
and I know, for a fact, that a lot of Paula's team were
against it, a lot of Paula's team would have preferred
that the NFSP withered on the vine and went away.
35
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
that I would like to read to you. It says:
"We are getting closer and closer to tipping point
of lack of influence, and [the Post Office] getting
closer to completion of [Network Transformation]."
So this is slightly earlier:
"If CWU is rejected our biggest bargaining chip is
gone!"
It seems there to be there suggested that the CWU is
being used as a bargaining chip against the Post Office.
I dispute that. I know what it says there but I dispute
that.
If we take that down, please, and stick with the one on
the right-hand side. If we scroll down, please, "Our
position/Next steps", this is the Post Office:
"We remain of the view that a strong relationship
with NFSP is the right outcome -- but not at any price.”
Then that final paragraph there, it says:
"Although we have yet to position it as follows, the
reality is that we need to convince George that
a 15-year deal fully independent and funded by Post
Office with a 5-year break clause with a termination
payment that equates to a 1-year notice period is a far
better deal than a merge with CWU that simply promises
5 years in an organisation that cannot afford to
subsidise the NFSP with a declining membership, is
34
But -- however, we got it. So it was always
a possibility we could have joined the CWU because,
actually, joining the CWU would have been a far easier
thing to achieve than what we got, and so, to some
extent, I was futureproofing the Federation going
forward.
So by 2015, May 2015, you had the agreement in principle
for 15 years. Was it similar to those figures that we
discussed at the beginning?
It could have been. There was -- some of these figures
went up because we took new teams on. That's what I was
trying to explain. We took on a six-man retail team to
go out to branches to help people explain the retail.
We puta six months mail segregation team on because
people were missing the targets and our members were
losing millions of pounds of payments for Royal Mail, so
we put a team in the field, which I believe is still
there, to help our members get it.
Purely in terms of figures though, we're talking over
£1 million initially, rising to over £2 million plus?
Because of these reasons, yes.
There's then the conference in June 2015. Could we,
please, turn now to NFSP00000957. There was a special
conference on 18 June convened for this purpose; is that
right?
36
(9) Pages 33 - 36
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
o>
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
That's correct.
These are the minutes of that conference. Can we please
turn to page 15, and there's a section that I'd like to
read out to you -- slightly further down, please. It's
an exchange between yourself and somebody called Robert
Cockburn from the Scottish Northern Branch. He says, as
follows, "Good afternoon".
Just pausing there, there were options presented at
this conference: there was the option that we've just
seen, there were other options relating to, for example,
merging with the CWU:; is that right?
That's correct.
"Good afternoon. I'd just like to ask the Executive
Committee if this is such a frightfully important day
for our organisation why we haven't been allowed to
question the CWU and National Federation of Retail
Newsagents today."
That's met with applause. The national Federation
of Retail Newsagents was a third option, wasn't it?
That's correct and, at one time, so was the Association
of Convenience Stores but they backed out quite early.
You respond as follows:
"I think that's a good question Robert asks and he
asked it in Scotland we've had it in a few areas as
well. The position of the Executive Council, the
37
the conference and that was accepted. But, again,
I have to reiterate the point, I did have numerous
conversations with postmasters regarding the CWU and, if
we had been able to take more people with us than what
I anticipated, then it was more of an option, but it was
becoming quite clear. And what was also clear and what
put a lot of postmasters off, there was already a CWU
subpostmaster section that I believe never went above
200, and I think that showed the difficulty we would
have taking a significant amount of subpostmasters with
us into the CWU.
Thank you. The response then from Mr Cockburn, he says:
"George, that's all very well and good to say that
the Executive Committee support the MOU, that may well
be the best option, but everybody here runs their own
post office and they know what's best for them, and with
all due respect to listen to you guys presenting for the
CWU and the National Federation of Retail Newsagents,
it's secondhand, you want the MOU and you're presenting
their options as secondhand options", et cetera.
Again, met with applause.
Apart from the money from the Post Office, there
were some significant advantages to the NFSP. One of
them was, for example, automatic enrolment for all new
model operators; is that right?
39
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
Executive Council are the ruling body of the
organisation and obviously they listen to the membership
and they are elected from the membership. It was felt
quite strongly that the best option by a proverbial mile
was the MOU and that if we were to join another
organisation, particularly a trade union, we would leave
the whole playing field empty and someone like the NFRN
would come along to the Post Office and say ‘They'd
joined the CWU, they're a union, why don't you deal with
us as a trade association?’ And the reason that we felt
quite strongly that we would not get someone along from
the National Federation of Retail Newsagents or the CWU,
is that the best option and the preferred option for
this organisation is the MOU and the Conservative Party
wouldn't have, you know, Ed Balls comes along to their
conference, maybe now they would right enough, but we
decided as the leadership organisation on your behalf
that the MOU is of the best, you have the vote on it,
but to bring the CWU along or NFRN, then we do not think
that is a wise thing to do."
So, essentially, although there is a vote and there
are a number of options, the only one that you are, in
fact, presenting is the MOU that you have agreed?
Well, the executive had many meetings and the
negotiating team had meetings and we decided how to run
38
That's correct.
Membership fees paid by the Post Office, so not from the
members?
Yeah, and that was for a lot of members, the bigger
branches, that was roughly £200 a year saving. For the
smaller branches, roughly about £60 a year.
Also sole recognition was also part of the deal, wasn't
it?
Well, we always had recognition. The CWU wanted
recognition, particularly after we lost union status,
and they were told no. We -- thinking back, we were
never recognised for negotiation rights as a trade
union. But the Post Office recognised us as the only
organisation it could represent subpostmasters. So,
even though we had been a trade union for a long time on
paper, on that particular point, the Post Office didn't
recognise we were a trade union in terms of real
negotiation rights. And that's probably because we had
to work with them all the time.
We were -- we both needed the Post Office to be
doing well, we both needed the network to be strong, of
a decent size and we all needed Government work coming
in. So we had -- our interests were totally aligned
with the Post Office on the day job that I was doing all
the time.
40
(10) Pages 37 - 40
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Tying all of that that I've just taken you to from the
beginning of your evidence until now, tying that all
together, we've seen, 2013 to 2015, negotiations about
the future, significant sums of money being agreed and
negotiated and agreed with the Post Office; do you think
that there might be something in the suggestion that you
were financially dependent on the Post Office,
especially at an important time in the life of the
Horizon scandal?
Well, nothing to do with the Horizon scandal but,
because we were losing membership with transformation
programmes and restructuring, our membership dropped to
something like 5,000, and we had loss about 8,500
subpostmasters over the last 12 or 13 years before that
and, a large majority of them, probably 6,000 or 7,000
were our members at the time.
So, basically, the Post Office money that we were
going to get was, if you like, replacing what used to be
membership money that we had lost because we had
supported -- it comes back to my argument -- we had
supported three restructuring programmes, we had saved
the network, we had saved the company and we were going
to be the ones that actually had to fall on our sword
and not exist any more. And that was the logic. The
logic of a deal with the Post Office, it was tied to
a
the page, we can see Colin Baker was, at that time,
General Secretary. We do have your name there as
a member who was present; is that right? We can see
there on the right-hand side at the bottom, the very
final name of those present is yours.
Yes, I see it, yeah.
You were there because you were a member of the
Executive Council?
That's correct, yes.
Page 8, please. If we scroll down, there's a section
where subpostmasters' pay is discussed and we see there
it says as follows:
"There followed some discussion on the situation
regarding long-term Horizon failures around the
country."
Now, this wasn't a time of rollout, it was 2006. Do
you recall in 2006, at the Executive Council meeting,
the matter being raised that there was long-term Horizon
failures around the country?
If I recall, the Horizon system, in effect, is our Post
Office EPOS system, Electronic Point of Sale. That's
what it is, and what was happening in certain branches,
the screens were going dead, the chip and PINs were
going dead, people couldn't transact. So it wasn't like
this was something hidden. Actually, it was a pain in
43
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
Network Transformation, Urban Network Reinvention and
Network Change. It was never ever tied to Horizon
because my support for Horizon, even though we'll come
on to it later on, has never wavered since the year
2000. It's never wavered.
We'll look at your support for Horizon, I'm going to
take you very shortly chronologically thorough that,
but, if we look at the 2013 to 2015 period especially,
it was a time at which the NFSP's situation was
financially precarious and a time at which you are
negotiating significant sums of future funds with the
Post Office; do you agree with that?
That's got absolutely nothing to do with Horizon, yeah,
I'd agree with that but how that's linked to Horizon,
I've not got a clue. I don't know how you come to that
conclusion.
Let's look at issues with Horizon chronologically and
we'll start in 2006. Could we please look at
NFSPO00000555. As you say, we're going to go quite far
back in terms of your support for the Horizon system.
I wasn't General Secretary until 2007 but I know I've
answered some questions before that because I was on the
Executive Council.
Absolutely. We'll see a report of a meeting of the
Executive Council on 9 January 2006. If we turn over
42
the backside. People couldn't operate their branches so
we actually -- we were able to put goodwill payments in
place. But this happens, you know, it happens with
supermarket tills, EPOS, it happens with chip and PINs,
even as we speak. It happened last week in my shop,
last week.
NFSP00000517. This is another meeting in 2006, now
March 2006. Can we turn, please, if we look over the
page, you're present. Page 20, "Horizon Service
Improvements":
"An update on service improvements had been
circulated.
"Concerns were raised on how robust the Horizon
system was."
So you were present at a meeting of the National
Executive Council in March 2006 where concerns were
raised on how robust the Horizon system was; do you
recall that?
Yes, pertaining to a particular issue, which was that
screens were going blank, chip and PINs weren't working,
postmasters were aware of that because they couldn't
actually open their post offices. This is a particular
thing and we negotiated a Google payment based on the
volume of your customer transactions and the length of
time they were out, so this was something that was quite
44
(11) Pages 41 - 44
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
apparent. It's a bit like your EPOS system -- if you've
got a Spa or you've got a Premier, if your EPOS system
goes down, you physically can't serve your customers.
So this wasn't something that was heading away, it
was in your face, it was a technical difficulty that
they had resolved.
Is it beyond comprehension that there may have been
other technical issues at that time with the Horizon
system?
Well, as far as we, as an organisation were concerned,
this was a till system, this was a computer system that
was doing, at one time, about 70 million transactions
a day -- a day -- and, if there had been a systematic
failure or a systematic problem with the computer
system, we would have been inundated. We could not have
done our day job and that simply was not the case. So,
if you want a definitive, I can't give you a definitive
but logic would suggests that there was no significant
systemic issues with Horizon.
You've used the word "systemic"; I haven't used the word
"systemic". Alll I've asked is: concerns are being
raised about how robust the Horizon system was, is it
beyond comprehension that it wasn't just screen freezes,
that there may have been other technical issues that you
weren't aware of?
45
a bullet point there that begins "Npower". I think it's
the one just below -- thank you -- yes:
"Npower issuing cards that would only swipe at
PayPoint. When customers call Npower, they were being
told it was because Horizon was unreliable."
Are you aware that Npower had been telling people
that Horizon was unreliable?
I'm not aware of that but, however, again, I reiterate
my point, the system was dealing with hundreds of
millions of transactions a week and we were not having
the kind of level of complaints that would indicate if
there was significant failures within the system.
That's a fact.
If we scroll over, please, over the page. There's
a section on "Network". There is a heading "Horizon
Failures", it's page 13. The third bullet point under
“Horizon Failures”, it says:
"The failure after the Bank Holiday has been
explained and contrary to popular belief it was not
caused by overload, it was caused by an individual
accidentally switching something and messing up the
system."
Were you aware in 2006 of complaints about the
system being messed up?
Well, I wasn't, but I wasn't General Secretary. But
47
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
It's always a possibility, given the Post Office's
stupidity on steroids how they've handled the case in
the last couple of years, yes, it could be the case but
nothing I was aware of. And, certainly, when branches
were closed because their screens were blank and because
their chip and PINs were down, there was certainly no
big chunky people coming forward saying, "I've lost
a lot of money because my screen was blank". So this
was about a goodwill payment on something that was
relatively easy to resolve.
You were aware that there were helplines for technical
issues?
Yes, of course.
Were you aware of people complaining about those
helplines?
Well, some people could go direct to the helplines,
others -- quite a few people went thorough my Assistant
General Secretary, a very good colleague, Marilyn
Stoddart, who had a team of people working with Horizon
issues, as we all did, yeah.
Can we turn to NFSP00000491. We're still in 2006.
We're now in June 2006. If we turn over the page again,
you're present. Can we go, please, to page 10. About
three-quarters of the way down page 10, please. Thank
you. If we scroll down towards the bottom, there's
46
nothing that I'm aware of, but what I will say is that
Marilyn Stoddart and Lynda Willoughby were excellent at
dealing with Horizon complaints, as was my PA at the
time, Sharon Merryweather, so they dealt with any
complaints that came through, they would speak to Rod
Ismay, you know, all the Post Office staff. But I was
certainly at that meeting, yes.
POL00041564. We're now into 2009. This is the Computer
Weekly article of 11 May 2009. It begins by reference
to Lee Castleton, and we'll address Lee Castleton's case
shortly. If we go over the page, please. We also see,
if we scroll down, reference to Jo Hamilton signing her
accounts, even when she knew they were wrong because she
says calls to the Horizon helpline didn't stop the
deficits occurring and she felt backed into a corner.
Noel Thomas, reference to him; fourth postmaster,
‘Amar Bajaj; over the page, please, fifth, Alan Brown:
sixth, Judy Ford; seventh, Alan Bates. It says:
"All of the postmasters we spoke to say that their
union, the National Federation of SubPostmasters, has
refused to help them investigate their concerns."
Some of those who I've just mentioned were members
of the NFSP. Why weren't you helping them at that time?
Well, there are two things that I'd answer to that. The
first thing is that if you look at where the suspensions
48
(12) Pages 45 - 48
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry 21 June 2024
have taken place of people over a period, only about
30 per cent of them were our members. There was a big
chunk of postmasters' staff who were suspended. There
was a big chunk of directly employed staff, ie Crown
Offices, and, obviously, a big chunk of non-members
because we only represented about 60 per cent. So in my
calculation, before I came here today, I reckon that
less than 30 per cent of the people who ended up being
suspended were subpostmasters -- sorry, our members.
That's the first thing I'd like to say.
But, certainly, we would always investigate but, if
the Post Office -- and it comes back to the issue that
makes me annoyed about the Post Office, I absolutely was
aligned with them in the systemic reliability of the
system, and I still am. However, I think their
behaviour in taking postmasters -- firstly, suspending
them and taking postmasters to court, when they
apparently knew that there was backdoor access, there
was admin reversals, there was bugs, that they never
ever made us aware of.
So I'm supporting the Horizon system but these
issues that they denied are unforgivable, and they're
unforgivable because we could have resolved them quite
easily. I don't know if I'm allowed to expand on this
because, if we had been told that there was backdoor
49
a small body, you've got a Government-run company where
the managers at senior level are telling you that, if
a postmaster has that kind of error, that kind of value,
it has to be them, because the computer is systemically
robust, there's no backdoor access. If you have
a Government director on the Board from the Department
of Business, on the Post Office Board, they're telling
you -- or they're on the Board so you're assuming the
same thing, when you've got a big trade union like CWU
having hundreds of members over the period suspended as
well, and they're not taking court action, what do you
mean: stand up for our members or represent?
We took -- every case that was brought to us, we
took it up with the Post Office, right? What we didn't
do, is --
Can I pause you there. You said every case that was
taken up with you, you took to the Post Office. Let's
scroll back on this page, let's start at page 2. Jo
Hamilton, who sits here today. Did you fight her case
with the Post Office?
Well, fighting your case is different from taking it up,
so --
What did you do in relation to Jo Hamilton?
Well, it would be Marilyn, Linda or Sharon would
undoubtedly contact the Post Office at various levels to
51
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
access, we would have worked out a protocol with them,
right: you need the postmaster's permission.
Q. Mr Thomson, that's something I think you've addressed in
your witness statement.
A. Yeah, but are you bringing that up, that I've addressed
it?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, I have that point, Mr Thomson, I can
assure you.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
MR BLAKE: You've said that 30 per cent, approximately, on
your calculations, would have been members of the
National Federation.
A. Yes.
Why not fight for those 30 per cent at that time?
A. But you didn't let me expand on my answer. The
reality --
Q. You're talking about backdoor access, which is one issue
of number of different issues that this Inquiry has
heard about. You have complaints from a number of
people, you're saying that 30 per cent of whom would
have been your members --
A. Yes, and we took -- and we took --
2
2
-- why not fight their cases?
A. We did fight their cases but we asked the Post Office.
Now, what are we to do as an organisation? So we were
50
try and find out and, if the answer was, "This is a set
of circumstances" -- and given we didn't know the full
picture in terms of what could be done and what could
not be done, then there's nowhere else for us to go.
Now, if you're suggesting that we should have spent
hundreds of thousands of pounds on every legal case
against the Post Office, we didn't have the funds and
it's something we had never provided in membership.
Q. Mr Thomson, we've been over the funds. You were
receiving millions from the Post Office. The evidence
that the Inquiry has heard is that Jo Hamilton was
told --
A. I don't agree with you. You're talking --
-- "You're on your own".
A. The timeline for the funds from the Post Office and the
timeline for the funds from some of the members, you're
trying to make out that some how me were flush with
money because we were always getting these types of sums
from the Post Office. That's not correct. We were
a small membership organisation, we're losing members
because of three structuring programmes. So what you
said there is factually not correct, we werenae
wallowing around in money as you're implying.
Q. Noone is necessarily asking you to fund legal
challenges but did you ever issue any press releases
52
2
(13) Pages 49 - 52
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2
PppoPrpopr
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
supporting any of these individuals, asking the Post
Office to thoroughly investigate?
Well, given that we supported it as a robust system, and
the Post Office lied to us regarding some of the things
that were happening, I don't know -- if we're getting
assurance from the Chief Executive of a Government run
company with a Government representative on the Board,
and another trade union with £250,000 members, the CWU,
who -- I don't know if they took any kind of action
against the Post Office, I do not know -- but then
expecting an organisation that had fell to below 6,000,
5,000-and a bit to have that kind of resource, quite
frankly, we didn't.
How many resources would it require to issue a press
statement?
Apress statement saying what?
Urging the Post Office to --
No, because --
-- urgently investigate --
No, many, many of these ex-members believed, like Lee
Castleton -- he was never a member, we'll come on to
that -- but many of these people -- and it's still the
same now, and my criticism of Justice for Subpostmasters
was that they gave the impression and stated that this
basically system was kaput, it wasn't fit for purpose,
53
investigated the issue and corresponded with
Mr Castleton regarding his belief that the system was
not robust and failsafe. This issue has now been placed
‘on the agenda for discussion at our forthcoming
Executive Council meeting.”
If we scroll over the page, we can see the email.
He says as follows:
"I am writing to you as you are an Executive Council
member of the NFSP.
"My name is Lee Castleton ... I used to own a sub
post office until I had a problem in 2004. I do not
wish to burden you with my own personal story in this
letter but I am more than willing, if you wish, to go
into great deal at a later date. I have been asked to
ask you if you feel any responsibility with the safety
of your members that you were elected to represent?
"I am part of a growing group of postmasters who are
both serving and ex-serving and we have all suffered
problems with the Horizon system. Our goal is to
publicise the belief that the Post Office Horizon
accounts system is flawed, and that the way in which
this problem is dealt with is systematically heavy
handed and is effectively swept under the carpet, the
public in our opinion should be allowed to hear all
sides and decide for themselves. We have evidence of
55
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
it should be replaced. I think Alan Bates even goes as
far as to say that the Post Office should be wound down.
So we did not know there was some issues because the
Post Office didn't tell us. So how you then expect us
to take some kind of action based on a big lie that has
taken place, ie the Post Office withholding all this
information, I do not understand.
MR BLAKE: Thank you, sir. That might be an appropriate
moment for our first morning break.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, by all means. What time shall we
resume?
MR BLAKE: Could we resume at 11.10, please.
(11.00 am)
(A short break)
(14.10 am)
MR BLAKE: Thank you. Can we turn to NFSP00000347.
Mr Thomson, you mentioned the case of Lee Castleton
and we'll address that now. This is a letter to the
National Executive Council regarding the case of Lee
Castleton. This is sent on 29 September 2009 and it
says, as follows:
"Dear Executive Officer
"Please see the email below from ex-subpostmaster,
Lee Castleton, which has already been forwarded to you.
Both myself and my predecessor have in the past
54
Horizon not performing properly and we have evidence
from IT technical experts who support our claims.
"We as a group are actively looking for
opportunities to publicise the problems that we feel are
not being dealt with by the Post Office and are being
ignored by the NFSP. We have had numerous amounts of
column inches and various magazines and of course the
BBC have now shown the Taro 9 programme on BBC Wales.
Again, as a group, we are now embarking into mainstream
media coverage with BBC Watchdog preparing a programme
along with various radio shows asking for interviews.
At least one MP is to approach the Government and ask
them to launch an enquiry.
"This is of course very good for our group and the
publicity is good for our cause. Clearly you as
a senior person within the NFSP will be asked for
comment on this issue.
“It should be of utmost concern to you as a senior
official that Horizon can go wrong at the very least
your union should be holding its own enquiry to
establish the facts. Postmasters are being sent to
prison, being given criminal records, and are being made
bankrupt.
"I have been asked to write to yourself and ask what
you are doing with respect to the problem and what you
56
(14) Pages 53 - 56
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 A.
24 Qa.
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24 A.
25 Q
pPrPoro
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
are doing as group at the NFSP to protect and educate
your membership. I quote from your website.”
There's a section there from the website, “Help in
difficult times":
“Our Branch Secretaries provide practical advice and
emotional support and are able to represent members if
they encounter contractual issues or difficulties.
"Read more about how the NFSP can help in difficult
times ..."
He ends by saying:
"We hope that this is a question you wish to answer,
and prove with actions that you are facing up to this
problem and are doing all you can to protect your
members. You do have a personal duty of care to your
members. I look forward to hearing from you."
I'm going to turn over to the actual meeting that
followed. It's LCAS0001376. We start on page 2.
Thank you. So this is the report of the meeting
that was held on 5 to 7 October 2009. If we scroll over
the page, there's a section Lee Castleton. You were, by
this time, the General Secretary of the NFSP, weren't
you, 2009?
Absolutely.
"Lee Castleton -- Horizon:
"Historic case. Lee Castleton had never been
57
Are these likely to have been your words your
announcements to the meeting?
They may well have. I undoubtedly would have spoken to
the Post Office about the background to the case and
I've obviously got notes for Lee -- I don't know how
much you're going to allow me to say but Lee Castleton
was appointed on 18 July 2003, four years before I was
General Secretary. But that's not the issue. I'm not
hiding anything. He was suspended on 24 March 2004 and
the email that was taken when he actually -- it was
I think it's -- his father-in-law —-
I'll take you to that document.
Okay.
Let's go --
Thank you.
-- step by step:
"Press have got involved over the past few weeks.
"Clarified that the Federation had to be very
careful. Our job was to protect subpostmasters. It was
important not to create a situation where hares were
sent running by encouraging members to believe Horizon
had faults."
Now, is that likely to have been your words?
Absolutely, systemic faults, yeah.
"If [Post Office] customers believed the system was
59
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
a member of the Federation and had only attempted to
join after he had got into trouble and was therefore
rejected.
"General Secretary had received the documents
relating to Horizon security that was used by [the Post
Office] in court cases, but it could not be shared with
the Executive Council."
Just pausing there, do you recall what it is that
you had received?
I think that was the -- it might have been the previous
General Secretary but can I just say on the Lee
Castleton issue that you've raised --
I'll ask you a number of questions about the Lee
Castleton case.
Right.
I'm just asking about this one bullet point at the
moment. Do you recall receiving documents that was used
by the Post Office in court cases?
I may have but, this far on, I don't know for definite,
and that's just the truth.
It then says:
“Lee Castleton had taken [the Post Office] to court,
his expert witness was very flawed, hence the case was
lost and the court awarded full costs to [the Post
Office] of approximately £300,000."
58
error ridden they would be reluctant to do business at
a time when the contracts were desperately needed by the
network."
Again, likely to have been your words or a summary
of your words?
That would be in line with my broad support for the
system, yes, absolutely.
Not only your support for the system but the importance
of public perception of a system that worked?
And the reality on the ground because we were dealing,
as I said, with hundreds of millions of transactions
a week, and very few complaints. That's just a fact of
the situation.
You go on to say that:
"Over 37,000 subpostmasters and clerks had used the
system since its implementation. Billions of
transactions had taken place. It was easy to blame
Horizon when a shortage occurred.”
If we scroll over the page, please:
"The simple fact was that Lee Castleton did not have
acase. Both the current and the previous General
Secretary had made that clear to him on numerous
occasions after investigating the circumstances, however
the case was yet again doing the rounds of the Executive
Council."
60
(15) Pages 57 - 60
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Now, what exactly did you do to investigate the
circumstances?
I contacted and had discussions with the Post Office.
But can I just say, as well, we've been -- Lee Castleton
was never a member of the Federation. We -- we --
We will get to that?
-- we didn't even have to have it on our agendas. We
had something to do with a non-member, who had never
been at a member, and we had it at the highest level
with the operation, and I dealt with the highest level
of the Post Office. So these criticisms that we did
nothing for our members when we're doing all that for
a non-member.
Mr Thomson, Mr Castleton's letter that I've just shown
you was asking you what you were doing for your members.
It wasn't asking for you to help Mr Castleton. It was
asking "What are you doing to help your current members
who may be experiencing the same problems as
I experienced?" What is it, looking at that first
bullet point, that you did to properly investigate the
circumstances of his case, so that you could have some
reassurance in respect of all of your members at that
time?
I raised it, once again, with the Post Office and, for
the life of me, I don't expect -- I don't understand
61
from the previous General Secretary and the executive
teams -- and my executive teams -- that we supported
Horizon, because it was a robust system. Was there any
person in particular? I don't think so. It might have
been Mark Baker(?). Mark was probably away with it and
Mark was the only one that criticised Network
transformation, sometimes he criticised Horizon but not
all the time, it was usually Network Transformation Mark
criticised.
Generally, when you have a policy, a policy will be
based on some research, some investigation, and then you
formulate the policy, and, perhaps, if circumstances
change, you revisit the policy. Did you, at this stage,
revisit the policy, carry out any investigation?
We carried out an investigation with the Post Office.
In terms of revisiting the policy, I've told you, only
a tiny fraction of postmasters were ever having problems
with Horizon and the settlement group that took place,
and everything that's happened recently, it's a small,
small group of subpostmasters. If you compare that to
the billions of transactions that took place, it's
a tiny, tiny fraction.
But you, of course, are investigating Horizon, you
should be able to tell that. It's a very small amount
of people who claimed that Horizon caused massive
63
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
what further action you would expect us to take. So, if
you're going to a company that's Government owned that
has a Chief Executive that's telling you one thing, that
has a director on the Board from the Department -- from
BIS, from the Department of Industry, then where are you
going to go with it? That's what I fail to understand.
And because of the volume of transactions that were
being done properly, we knew it could not be systemic.
So I don't know where you expected us to take it and,
more importantly, I don't know if an organisation,
230,000 people, CWU, if they took any action that
involved taking somebody to court.
Next bullet point -- well, we'll look at some CWU.
documents in due course:
"There followed considerable discussion on the
subject."
It then says:
"Though a couple of Executive Officers had some
minor misgivings regarding Horizon, the vast majority
were happy that it was accurate."
So there is a recognition that some members were
concerned regarding the accuracy of Horizon; do you
recall that?
When I took over on the Executive Council and then
became General Secretary, it was settled policy, both
62
problems for them.
Some of whom went to prison, some of whom took their own.
lives --
I've got that in my witness statement. I've been around
along time. Postmasters have always been -- and you
keep quiet about things because (a) you want to protect
the brand but you want to protect the postmasters, as
well, the reputation of the community, the postman as
well. I've been around a long time: suspensions have
always taken place, prosecutions have always taken
place, under the manual system as well, hundreds of
subpostmasters suspended.
We had a franchise that was in crisis and we always
tried to help people, of course we did, try and find out
what had happened, spoke to -- speak to Chesterfield to
see if they've sent too many pension dockets away or if
they went missing. We did all these things, we helped
people that had been suspended but I've got that in my
witness statement and I hope we get onto it because my
witness statement gives the reason why it's a tiny
percentage and why this happened before computerisation,
well before computerisation.
“Lee Castleton had wanted the Federation to back his
court action that would have run into six figures,
stressed again he had never been a member and as such,
64
(16) Pages 61 - 64
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2
>
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
it was requested that Executive Officers did not respond
to his correspondence.
“If there had been systematic problems with Horizon
‘over many years the Federation would have taken action
as a whole. All the cases investigated in depth so far
had proven the error was on the part of the
subpostmaster or their staff."
How many cases did you investigate in depth?
With these numerous issues, I can't recall, but we
raised numerous issues --
Did you investigate any cases in depth?
When you say “in depth" what do you mean? We took it up
with the company that employs them, the Post Office. We
took it up -- I spoke to Paula, on numerous occasions
about Horizon being robust, particularly regarding
backdoor access. And, if the people at the top of the
company are telling you that it cannot be accessed apart
from the people on the counters, at the Horizons -- on
the Horizon terminals how do you possibly disprove that
when you've got a Government -- and how does the CWU
disprove that when you've got a Government director on
the Board as well? Where are you meant to take it,
a small organisation of 6,000 people?
And we're talking about a non-member. So, you know,
the reality is, we're accused of not representing
65
bugs in the system --
I wasn't.
-- would you change your position?
If I was told -- so if I was told that there was
backdoor access --
Forget backdoor access --
~ or bugs --
You've said "backdoor access" a number of times but
let's focus on bugs, bugs in the system, something that
affected balancing. If you were told there is a problem
in the system that has, in some cases, let's say 60-odd
cases, affected the balancing in branches, would that
have changed your position?
It could well have done and a combination of everything
else. I certainly --
What would you have done in those circumstances?
Well, eventually, we probably would have tried to employ
a computer expert. If we believed that the Post Office
were covering up to the degree it now looks like they
were -- and it's stupid because we could put a protocol
in place, hopefully allowing me to explain that later
‘on, but I've got my doubts -- then we could have -- then
we could've worked something out, yes. But if we knew
these things, we certainly would have done something
about it. So --
67
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
21 June 2024
members and then you accuse us of not representing
non-members. It's quite staggering, frankly.
"The General Secretary gave an undertaking that in cases
where a member believed the problem was Horizon, he
would raise the case with [the Post Office] at the
highest level. Executive Officers to notify such cases
to Shoreham."
How many cases did you raise at the highest level
with the Post Office?
Over the years, maybe 20 or 30 but, again, I would go in
there with John Scott, Head of Security, with Paula,
with other people on the team and say, "Look, we've got
noise about this particular case. What's the
background? Is it possible -- is it possible that it
could be the computer system?" And we believed it was
systemically strong, and I still do, my wife uses it,
our family has used it for -- since its inception, you
know, 20-odd year ago. But if they're telling you on
some of the smaller issues that they didn't ‘fess up
about as I've mentioned, you know, backdoor remote
access, then how are we meant to disprove that when
you're getting that from the very top and you also know
that BIS has got someone on the Board? Where are you
meant to take that?
So, if it was the case that you were told of a number of
66
Mr Thomson, just stopping you there. If you were told
that there was a bug that affected 60-odd branches and
that it affected the balancing of their accounts, you've
said you would have tried to employ a computer expert?
No, let me -- let me -- what I've said there -- if we
realised it had been a big problem, in the first
instance, we would have obviously sat down with the Post
Office, right, "We've been told there's bugs. How is
this possible? How are you dealing with it? Are you
making postmasters aware? Are you getting the -- what
did you do to the computer to rectify it? Did you get
permission? What was the outcome?"
You would have grilled the Post Office in those
circumstances, would you?
Of course we would have done it more, yeah. But when
you get people just saying to you, "I think it was bug
George", where do you take that?
Okay, well, we have your evidence.
NFSP00000256, please. I'm very briefly going to
finish the Lee Castleton issue, page 8, please. You
were mentioning an email or a complaint, I think, from
his father-in-law. That's this email perhaps. It's
an email that says it's November 2004. This is the
original complaint:
"Last night around 4.50 I had a call from
68
(17) Pages 65 - 68
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
a gentleman asking if we could help his son-in-law who
has been in his office since 18 July 2003. He has been
suspended since March 2004 and was terminated on
14 July.
"His problem was that he originally had a loss of
£1,000 which he put in himself. Then a few weeks later
down the line he was £2,500 down and the following week
he was another £4,200 down. By the end he was told that
he was £27,000 down.
"He would like to know if we could help him. I told
him it would be very doubtful as he has never been
a member."
If we go to page 7, please. There's an email that
says:
"David Milner called today if we had heard from
Marine Drive Post Office and the problems they'd been
having. I said I spoke to the subpostmaster and his
father-in-law about it and passed it on to Kevin."
There's a little note there:
“Advised Mr Castleton cannot help because he's not
amember. He claims he sent in an application.”
I think, if we turn to page 3., we can see, if we
look at the bottom of that page, there's a little note
there, 8 November 2004;
"Sent in £157.08 for membership, Kevin declined it."
69
Mr Castleton on the phone and I might even before it,
and he wanted us to fund the case. And he ended up --
you know, it's horrible -- ended up losing £300,000 and
that's heartbreaking, and it is, but we did raise his
case, he wasn't a member, and to get criticised for not
helping a non-member, for someone who used to be
a General Secretary of a trade union, albeit, you know,
with a retail belts onto it, it's a bit hard to take.
He was -- he was never, ever a member and yet we
spent time on our Executive Council debating it over the
years. And when I did speak to him it was about getting
funding to take on the Post Office.
That letter, though, that doesn't explain any of that,
does it?
Well, I can't comment on a letter that was taken, you
know -- I didn't become -- I'd just become an executive
officer. I'm not hiding behind it because I know the
general direction of travel. It is what itis. It
happened in 2004. I became General Secretary in 2007.
I could say "Well, I'm not answering it because I wasn't
General Secretary" but I'm trying to help as much as
I can.
Let's move on to 2012 now. Can we please turn to
NFSP00000977. This is the branch secretary's circular;
is this something you would have signed off?
ral
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
Then if we turn, please, to page 4. We see the
communication to Mr Castleton, from Kevin Davis, senior
assistant General Secretary:
"I'm returning your postal order to the value of
£157.08 because I cannot accept your application for
membership."
Now, I think you want to deal with this issue
because I think it may have been -- well, it was your
evidence that he wasn't a member and, therefore, you
didn't have to deal with him. This is the relevant
correspondence. Do you think that that explanation
that's set out in that letter is sufficient to
Mr Castleton --
Well, this was before my time but I'm going to answer
it. The reality is no membership organisation --
a membership organisation is a bit like having
insurance. You can argue how good or bad that insurance
is, that's why we're here today but, if you have
household insurance and your house burns down or you go
‘on holiday and break your leg, you can't claim after
it's happened and Mr Castleton came to us after he had
been suspended and one of the conditions of being
a member, you have to be a subpostmaster. He wasn't
a subpostmaster. Now, that's not a technicality.
So when I came -- when I got in, I did speak to
70
I certainly would have been involved with it, yes.
Marilyn would have had input, Paul Hook maybe, in terms
of the publicity team in that, yes. But I would have
been involved in a lot of it.
Let's scroll down, there's a section on "Media coverage
of Horizon disputes". It says:
"As a result of recent media coverage, members may
be aware that Post Office Limited has agreed to
an independent audit of a handful of cases where Horizon
irregularities are claimed to have taken place."
That's the Second Sight investigation.
Yeah.
"The National Federation of SubPostmasters is surprised
that [the Post Office] has chosen to follow this
approach. We have seen no evidence in any of these
cases that Horizon was at fault and we believe that the
system remains robust.”
What would be wrong with the Post Office employing
an independent company to look into the reliability of
the Horizon system?
Well, firstly, we didn't know, as I said, about bugs,
about admin reversals, about backdoor access. But what
was more annoying about this is that this was a time
when we were looking to move the Post Office in the
direction of mutualisation and postmasters having a much
72
(18) Pages 69 - 72
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
bigger role in the running of the company, for all the
right reasons because, a lot of times in the past, the
Post Office hasn't been particularly well run.
And I was furious that we had been excluded from
such a fundamental decision as taking on Second Sight.
That's what most of the anger was about. It was quite
incredible that us, as an organisation, who'd been so
supportive -- for the reasons I've given, because it's
a robust system that I supported from its very
inception -- would have been excluded from such
a significant decision, it was quite scandalous that
we --
The last paragraph on the page:
"The NFSP is surprised that [the Post Office] has
chosen to follow this approach. We have seen no
evidence in any of these cases that Horizon was at fault
and we believe the system remains robust."
What's being said there is "We are surprised that
the Post Office has asked for an independent
investigation because we're not aware of any problems
with the system”; isn't that what's being said?
But we were not aware of any problems with the system
and --
So what had been wrong --
-- we'd been working hand in hand with the Post Office
73
of this she has had to use her own funds to balance the
system or be accused of being incompetent or fraudulent.
"After weeks of telephone conversations by my Mother
with unhelpful staff from nameless Post Office personnel
I contacted your organisation in order for your support
and advice.
"Your advice was close to useless, your support was
non-existent and my mother was just insulted by a man
stating the obvious over the telephone.
"So please explain to me the link I attach below and
why after several letters you did not bring this to my
attention?"
That is the reference to the Second Sight
investigation and the reasons for that investigation.
Mr Taylor says:
"I would like you to contact Mrs G Taylor [and it
gives her post office address] and apologise for your
lacklustre performance and how you are going to support
her further as I thought is the whole point being a paid
member of National Federation of SubPostmasters."
So here we have somebody who is, in fact, a paid
member of the National Federation complaining, raising
issues about balancing issues resulting from the Horizon
system. If we go on to page 3, please. It's the bottom
of page 2 into page 3. Here is the response from you.
75
ONOaARWN
©
2
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 A.
23
24 Q.
25 A.
21 June 2024
for a franchised brand, they should have included us in
any decisions they made regarding Second Sight,
absolutely.
What would be wrong with an independent investigation
into the Horizon system? Why were you, the NFSP,
surprised and upset by that approach?
For the reasons I've given, that we were excluded from
such a significant decision.
Can we please turn to NFSP00001314. We'll start on
page 3, please. So we're in June 2012, so the same
month. It's over to page, the bottom of page 3, please.
There is a letter from somebody called Paul Taylor,
drawing your attention to a BBC News article that
announces the Second Sight investigation. It's
an article that mentions, for example, Seema Misra,
somebody who had been convicted and sent to prison.
If we scroll over the page, Mr Taylor says:
"I have previously written to you regarding
a computer errors not balancing correctly at the end of
each day and my 63-year-old mother having to use her own
money to balance the system. After constant checking,
as my mother used to work in a bank and has been
a subpostmistress for twelve years, she is more than
able to do this basic task, however, the system still
did not balance even when on paper it should. Because
74
It says:
"Dear Paul
"Thank you for your recent email regarding the
Horizon computer system.
"Over 70 million transactions are carried out each
and every week at post offices all over the UK and I can
assure you that we have only a handful of people who
claim the system is [systematically] faulty. If the
Horizon system was [systematically] faulty we would have
tens of thousands of complaints each and every year.
The NFSP continues to believe that the Horizon ...
system is accurate, robust and fit for purpose and we
believe that the external review of Horizon will come to
the same conclusion."
Now, we saw in those minutes earlier, you saying
that, "If anyone has a problem, I'll take it on, I'll
take it to the highest levels of the Post Office".
That's not what's happening here, is it? You're
providing a standard statement about the number of
people using the system and the lack of complaints about
the system?
Was that the admin reversal one? Was that the admin
reversal that caused the error?
I've shown you the complaint.
Yeah. Was that the small admin -- was that the 130 --
76
(19) Pages 73 - 76
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
British Telecom --
We --
I'm trying to recall. I can't recall. I'm just trying
to remember if it was an admin reversal.
I will take you to a response from Mr Taylor. It's
page 2, that might assist your memory. He responds as
follows:
"You can keep repeating you are confident that your
Horizon system is robust but that doesn't make it true.
There is a reoccurring error which is resulting in the
Horizon system not balancing transactions to sum of
money taken, be it by cash, card or cheque.
"This may be a Horizon error, this may be human
error, but there is an error. This should be a very
simple problem to pinpoint as all transactions can be
printed centrally to find an anomaly. I personally do
not understand why this is taking such a long time to
resolve.
"My concern is a sub post office is experiencing
a problem balancing the system which the Post Office own
and manage and there seems to be no Area Manager, no
systems manager, no one to support the sub post office.
If such people do exist then why hasn't this resolved by
now?
"The monitor screens at Thorney Post Office are
77
Is that "Very best, George"?
Mm-hm.
So there were 6 or 7 people around the same time raising
issues with you?
And was that to do with any programme on TV that I can't
recall. It just rings a bell, it --
Mr Taylor had sent you the article on the BBC News --
That's why there were six or seven people, that's the
point I'm making.
If we scroll over to the first page, there's a response
from Alwen Lyons at the bottom:
"George I am currently on a train so can't speak.
I'll be off it in about an hour so will call then.
"Thanks, Alwen."
Then we see above your comment. You say:
“Alwen, who in [the Post Office] had the idea to
have a review into Horizon. Given my strong support for
the integrity of the Horizon system over 5 years, I am
disappointed that my views on this cores of action were
not sought. I am also surprised that after leaving
emerges with [the Post Office] no one has picked up the
phone to talk through this contentious decision."
So what you're doing there is you've received
a complaint from a subpostmaster and you are absolutely
raising it with the Chief Executive of the Post Office
79
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
10 inches when modern day working standards clearly
state it should be 14 inches. So why have they not been
updated in twelve years? Again, who is managing the
hardware?"
That's the substance of the complaint. Did you
raise that at the highest levels of the Post Office?
I have to recall who dealt with it, if it came into
Amanda, if it was dealt with Marilyn, Lynda, Sharon or
myself. Again, I don't know if it was a small amount of
money. If it was a small amount of money, I almost
certainly wouldn't have dealt with it but I can't
remember, to be honest with you, because it was about --
I can assist you because you did, in fact, raise this
particular issue with Paula Vennells. You forward
the --
I'm saying I can't remember. It was -- about 12/13,
years ago.
Let me assist you. It's POL00143243. If we start on
page 3 we can see the complaint. The bottom of page 3,
we can see this is the email. If we scroll up, please,
over to the middle of page 2, we can see an email from
you to Paula Vennells, 22 June. You say:
"Paula
"Sending an example of 6 or 7 people who have
contacted us in the last 2 days. Not good."
78
but the circumstances of you raising it with the Post
Office aren't about "Please look into this problem", the
circumstances are you are there complaining that they're
even looking in a these issues through Second Sight,
aren't you?
I gave you my answer to Second Sight five minutes ago,
and the reason for my annoyance at the decision, because
it took no account and gave us no input into the
decision or the logic behind it. And I've explained
that already. So, you know, I will repeat myself again.
That was the logic.
But you have received six or seven complaints from
people --
Yeah, based on what was -- yeah, on the TV. Yeah,
I just said that.
-- you're getting in touch with the Post Office but
you're not saying, "Please investigate these problems".
You're saying, "I'm very disappointed that there is
an independent review going on into Horizon"?
I've explained why I was disappointed because we should
have been in the loop on the decision and the rationale
for the decision. And, again, I make no apologies that
1am, and I was, a supporter of the Horizon system. And
the very fact the Horizon system is still in situ and
going to be used for another four or five years and it's
80
(20) Pages 77 - 80
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
doing about £3.5 billion a month of banking transaction
shows the reason why I'm very supportive of the systemic
robustness of Horizon.
Mr Taylor's 63-year-old mother, who had previously
worked in a bank, was filling the discrepancies with her
‘own money. Why weren't you asking them to investigate
that case?
It depends how much money was missing. I cannot recall
how much money was missing but the bigger the loss, the
more likely we would get involved because, the bigger
the loss and the postmaster has got to make it good, the
more potential impact that's going to have on the
subpostmaster's life. Marilyn would probably deal with
something that was £160/£200. We would try and
investigate it. But, at the end of the day, it's part
of the contract the postmaster is liable for losses and
overages, and they always have been for a long, long
time.
Can we turn to POL00143305, still in June 2012. If we
could start on the bottom of the page, please. This is
another complaint, from somebody called Steve Hibberd:
“I have information that may potentially be of use
regarding the above."
That's a potential class action brought by
subpostmasters.
81
problems with the Horizon system, or allegations,
specific allegations relating to the Horizon system?
Well, I recall more of them now because, obviously, I've
got all the paperwork from the Inquiry but these things
were 10/11 years ago, maybe longer.
If we look at the bottom of page 5 into page 6, please,
this is an email from Mr Bishop. He says:
"We note that the Post Office has commissioned
a review of the Horizon system in a small number of
cases where serious misaccounting was alleged and the
former subpostmaster disputes this. We wondered if the
NFSP is taking a view on this as we also have concerns
about Horizon and wondered how widespread these
misgivings are.
"Although we won an A fart this year for Best Agency
Branch in the small branch category at the National
Network Sales Awards, we have been blighted by a series
of three unexplained losses in December, January and
April. These occurred at the end of our trading periods
and in total have added up to £1,376 since 1 January
this year. They are not related to cash handling or
stock management. The branch was audited last year and
was found to be in good order. They tend to be the kind
of issue which appears only when you get to the point of
rolling over the account, when a message appears saying
83,
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
"The following incident suggests to me that the Post
Office may be regularly placing the blame for internal
errors at the door of the subpostmaster rather than
accepting responsibility.”
He says:
"I have an Instant Saver Post Office account into
which cash is regularly paid by my tenants via a local
sub post office.”
He explains the issue there. If we scroll down, he
says:
"As I am aware of the class action being taken by
the subpostmasters against the Post Office via
Shoosmiths, I felt that this may be useful evidence of
blame perhaps being inappropriately laid at the door of
the subpostmasters, when there is in fact a fault with
the Post Office's own system."
If we, please, turn to page 1, that is exactly the
same response that had been given to Mr Taylor on
21 June, exactly the same response as we saw before.
Can we please turn to POL00108106. If we could
start on page 5. Do you recall the complaints that were
coming in towards the end of June 2012? They were
substantive complaints, they weren't just "I've seen
this television programme"; they were giving some detail
or a fair few of them were giving detail of specific
82
that losses need to be made good in order to complete
the roll over and these then appear as an unexplained
item in our branch accounts for the trading period.
"Because the branch reopened under new management on
31 August 2010 we put our early losses down to our own
inexperience and, at first, such losses as did occur
were clearly due to staff errors -- [for example] using
the wrong exchange rates when purchasing foreign
currency from the customer or, on one occasion, remming
the cheques out twice! However, we cannot find any good
explanation for the losses that have happened this year
and our staff are now becoming vastly more experienced
in carrying out transactions and using the Horizon
system. When they make mistakes, they after usually
able to spot them almost immediately and get them
resolved. We have asked the NBSC helpline and the
Regional Agency Support Team for advice but we have no
satisfactory comeback.
"We are wondering whether other sub post offices
have reported similar experiences and whether,
therefore, Post Office Limited are being asked to
broaden the scope of their investigation. Our post
office is owned by a charitable company and, as you can
imagine, the trustees are getting quite concerned.
There is even a suggestion that staff might be guilty of
84
(21) Pages 81 - 84
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
malpractice, although there is no evidence that this is
the case. When they saw the news reports about the
external review the trustees account us to enquire about
its scope and whether it might address the sort of issue
we have experienced."
If we scroll up to page 5, please, we can see your
response. Again, stock answer provided in your name
about 70 million transactions being carried out.
This is then followed up, if we look at page 4,
halfway through page 4, please. Mr Bishop says:
"No worries. I am pleased to hear that you don't
get lots of complaints about Horizon, but clearly we
will have to look again at our own systems as we have
had three unexplained shortfalls in the last seven
months."
Now, that's in 2012. This chain actually continues
into 2013. Can we look at the bottom of page 2 into
page 3:
"Dear Amanda,
"I would welcome your thoughts on the following.
Further to our previous correspondence (please see
below), we continue to have occasional unexplained
shortfalls so we noted with considerable concern news
reports that more than 100 sub post offices are now
reporting unexplained discrepancies in their Horizon
85
a discrepancy but also, on occasion, a surplus. So you
might think that that sounds like quite an honest
person; do you recall reading this email?
I can't recall, no.
If we go to page 2, please, halfway down. There is
a response from your PA:
"Good afternoon Neil and thank you for your email.
"Having studied the Interim Report, the NFSP report
that the findings are suggesting that the system
fundamentally robust, however there have been a few
glitches that have subsequently been corrected and the
necessary adjustments made. The report is also
suggesting that, as the NFSP have told [the Post Office]
for many years, the training and back-up for Horizon is
somewhat lacking.
"However, if you have any specific instances you
[would like] to be investigated", and then Paula
Vennells' direct contact details are provided.
There is a further response on page 1. Mr Bishop
says:
"You suggested that I send the evidence next time we
had a problem with getting Horizon to balance and
unfortunately it wasn't too long before this happened.
On Saturday we had a new member of staff -- who only
began work in August -- working alongside an experienced
87
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
balances and that Post Office Limited has conceded that
it is theoretically possible for Horizon to arrive at
an incorrect balance."
So this is about the Second Sight Interim Report.
I will get to that shortly. So I'm jumping ahead of
time and I'll have to go back, but I'll stick with this
chain because it's all on one chain:
"The Interim Report seems to imply that there could
be a ‘small system problem’ with the hardware linked to
a branch, although it finds that it is more likely that
mistakes happen because the system is over complicated
and because staff are not following best practice when
using the system and need more training to minimise the
risks of not planning correctly.
"In our case, I don't think any of us feel confident
in tracing a problem once it occurs. Sometimes we can
find mistakes quickly but more often we cannot find
anything wrong at all and the shortfall, or less
frequently the surplus, comes as a complete surprise
when we press the ‘rollover’ tab on the screen at the
end of the [trading period]. That is to say, cash and
stock have appeared to balance correctly up until that
point, so that it becomes a ‘fingers crossed’ moment
each month."
Now, they are there reporting, not just
86
staff member. Saturday is usually a quiet day but this
was busier than most.
"At the start of the day we were running a loss for
the trading period of around [£77], which was itself
cause for concern but we usually find that discrepancies
of this size often rectify themselves when the coin
[stacks] are checked. However, by the end of the
session the loss had increased to [around £1,000] and
every effort to track the cause of the problem has been
unsuccessful.”
Mr Bishop attaches further information, printed
remittance. He says, as follows:
"We can't see any obvious errors. Short of the
staff taking £1,000 out of the till and splitting it
between them -- which we consider most unlikely -- we
cannot explain where the money has gone. Can you see or
suggest anything that we might have missed?
"The stock response from the helpline in these
circumstances is that everything will come good when we
balance at the end of the next [trading period] but
invariably we find that is not the case."
So we've had the Second Sight Report by this stage.
Now, the Second Sight Report went into detail about two
bugs, one of them affected over 60 branches, created
discrepancies. It also refers to a third bug in that
88
(22) Pages 85 - 88
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry 21 June 2024
report, so you are now on notice of bugs in the Horizon
system causing discrepancies. You have a specific issue
raised by Mr Bishop here, detail, evidence.
Your evidence earlier, after originally saying that
you would have tried to employ a computer expert, you
then said you would at least have grilled the Post
Office.
What did you do to grill the Post Office in relation
to this case?
A. We were always grilling them about bugs, or backdoor
entries, or remote reversals or admin reversals whatever
you want to call them. But! can't remember the
specifics but what I will say is we had a very competent
team at Shoreham and Marilyn dealt with most of the
Horizon complaints -- a very good officer -- Lynda
Willoughby and Sharon. Obviously my day job was doing
everything -- new work, subsidy, compensation levels,
all these things. But I was aware of most of the
Horizon stuff, absolutely.
And again, the reality is that postmasters have
always had overages and shortages. Obviously, you hear
more about the shortages than overages, for obvious
reasons. But one of the easiest ways you could make
a mistake on the Horizon terminal is, let's say,
Mrs Smith was getting £130 from her pension. So it's in
89
shortages are -- were quite a common thing, yes.
MR BLAKE: Thank you, sir. That might be an appropriate
moment to take our second break of the morning. Can we
come back at 12.10, please.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, certainly.
(12.00 noon)
(A short break)
(12.10 pm)
MR BLAKE: Thank you, Mr Thomson, we had a small excursion
into 2013 but I'm going to go back to 2012. Can we
please start with NFSP00000473. This 25 June 2012, 25
to 27 June, and it's a meeting of the National Executive
Council. Can we please turn to page 5. We can see
there that you are in attendance as General Secretary.
Can we please turn to page 9. There is a section on
Horizon. This is before the Second Sight Report has
been published.
If we scroll down, "Horizon", "The NC"; what would
"NC" be a reference to?
A. Negotiating Committee.
Q. "The [Negotiating Committee] will have a meeting at
Fujitsu at Bracknell in July to ascertain why the system
falls over and what can be done to solve problems.
"Need to ascertain what detections are in place when
failures occur.
1
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
the stack and you're meant to finish the transaction but
you don't finish -- you're maybe really busy or you're
‘on your own, and you've got a lot of things to do and,
rather than clearing that off the stack, you leave it
on. So the next customer, if you're not paying
attention -- and this does happen, I've done it myself,
most of them you can get the money back but sometimes
you don't -- if you left the £130 in, and let's say it
was another pensioner or a Child Allowance at the time,
Child Benefit, then if they were getting £100
automatically that would be added to the £130 so the
stack was now showing you £230. So if you paid out that
£230 because you didn't notice, then that's £130 that's
went missing.
It's not because you're dishonest in any way; it's
because you or your staff have made a mistake, and the
reality is that more customers will take an overage than
will come back about a shortage, rather than an overage.
Some will come back. Good customers will come back.
Mr Thomson, did you dismiss the concerns of
subpostmasters, just like the one we've just been
reading, in exactly the same way when they complained:
user error, your fault?
Well, we believed that postmasters were responsible for
losses and overages in the branches, and that small
90
"The [Negotiating Committee] will report back to the
[Executive Committee] on what improvements will be made.
"[Post Office] has called for a full, external
forensic accountants [Second Sight], review into the
Horizon system. This is because pressure had been put
upon Paula Vennells by MPs who are challenging that the
system is flawed. This has emanated from 10 cases where
people have contacted their MPs after audits had taken
place and losses found. Some of these have had their
contracts terminated and some have been to court. [The
Post Office] are only reviewing the 10 cases.
"The Federation has never been consulted on the
review.
"The NFSP has always defended the robustness of the
accountancy of the system.
"There are 70 million transactions conducted on the
Horizon system every week."
Looking at those last two bullet points, it seems
as though they are related to your concerns about the
review in that it's still your position that: Horizon is
robust, no need for a review.
No, I mentioned there, we were not consulted. My main
angst is we were not consulted on such a fundamental
policy.
Why would it then be necessary to have those last two
92
(23) Pages 89 - 92
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
bullet points?
Because it's --
What would the point be, at the time that the Post
Office has called forensic accountants to look into the
robustness of the system, to reiterate that the NFSP has
always defended the robustness and that 70 million
transactions are conducted every week?
We're defending the systemic robustness of the system,
as I've done all morning. The system is systemically
robust; that's a fact. Now, bugs can occur. We know
that now. We know that -- all the other things I've
mentioned this morning. We were not told about that.
We were not told by the Post Office management about
these other things that would have opened their eyes to
some of these issues that were going on. And I find it
quite remarkable that the Post Office were prosecuting
people, given they knew that their witnesses and their
teams knew this was an issue. So they were going into
court on a pack of lies, and that's unforgivable. But
robust, the system is.
Why, after email, after email, after email that we've
already seen this morning, would you not simply be
welcoming an external independent review of the Horizon
system?
We put out -- we put out a -- I think, a press release
93
Horizon has been at fault and we believe it to be
robus'
You had received those emails that I took you to
raising concerns: a lady who had previously worked in
a bank was experiencing problems, filling up
discrepancies with her own money; another complaint,
another complaint. Wouldn't it have been pretty
straightforward at this stage to say, "We welcome
an independent investigation"?
If I knew what the Post Office did at that stage
I probably would've, but I was not aware -- as I've
reiterated five or six times this morning, I was not
aware of some of these major issues, particularly the
issues that were -- I'd imagine remote access seems to
have been done on almost an industrial scale that we
were not aware of. So I may have nuanced it slightly
different but I would have still stipulated that it was
a robust system, and it still is.
How are you so confident that remote access took place
on an "industrial scale", as you say?
Well, it's -- what I've heard in the last few months, it
would suggest maybe it has.
Why were you so willing to accept that and not accept
that there were serious problems with the Horizon
system?
95
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
‘or we put something out which was basically reinforcing
‘our belief that the system was systemically faulty (sic)
and we were doing two things there -- not ignoring the
postmasters caught up in it but doing two things:
protecting the brand but protecting the reputation of
all the postmasters who were actually in situ as well.
And, again, as I've mentioned all morning, these were
a tiny, tiny fraction of the transactions that were
taking place and no doubt the Inquiry has probably done
some work on that. You could show me how small the
percentage is, if you wanted to.
Could we please turn to POL00004486, 27 June 2012, this
is a news article:
"Post Office hires firm to investigate Horizon IT
systems", so it's an article about Second Sight being
appointed.
If we turn to the second page, we can see the
announcement that you're mentioning just now. It says:
"Meanwhile, George Thomson, General Secretary of the
National Federation of SubPostmasters, backed the Post
Office: 'We continue to have complete confidence in the
Horizon system which carries out hundreds of millions of
transactions every week at 11,500 Post Office outlets
across the country.
"The NFSP has seen no evidence to suggest that
94
Because there's not. There is not serious systemic
problems with the Horizon system, and the reason I'll
say that, and I'll say here quite clearly, is because
the volumes concerned, we would have been snowed under.
We would not have been able to do any other work with
the Government, with the Post Office, anything at all.
Billions of transactions, and if a tiny fraction of
them -- if it had been systemic, we'd have been snowed
under. It has not been systemic.
It is operating and still is operating well. But
there is issues, and you've identified them to the Post
Office in the last four or five weeks, as -- because
I've been watching more of the Inquiry than I used to,
obviously.
Mr Thomson, you said, if you knew what the Post Office
knew, you'd have welcomed the independent investigation.
No, I said my views would have been different. It would
have been a lot more nuanced. A lot more nuanced, yeah.
But I would have still stipulated that systemically it
was a robust system because -- what I didn't want --
If I can stop you there. What is the point of
an independent investigation if the conclusion has
already been reached that there were no systemic
problems?
Well, that's why I was so annoyed at the Post Office not
96
(24) Pages 93 - 96
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
bringing me in to their decision to bring Second Sight
in because, if they had given me their reasoning, then
we will have accepted that that was the need for it.
Can we, please turn to POL00184392. If we start at the
bottom of the page, an email from Alan Bates, now
Sir Alan Bates, 20 December 2012:
"Dear Mr Thomson.
"So close to Christmas and with delays in the mail,
I have attached a pdf of a letter to you which is
self-explanatory about a forthcoming investigation into
the Post Office Horizon system which I believe will
benefit your members. If you so wish, it could be
published in the SubPostmaster Magazine.
"Once January arrives there will be significant
press coverage about this investigation in order to
ensure the widest possible audience is reached.
“If you have any questions about this, please do not
hesitate to contact me."
If we scroll up, it's an email from you to Nick
Beal, Paula Vennells, Kevin Gilliland, so sending it to
the Post Office:
"I have just received this rubbish from [the Justice
for Subpostmasters Alliance], obviously I'll tell him
that Horizon is secure and robust and to go away. Just
keeping [Post Office] in the loop."
97
an independent investigation is being carried out and it
might be of interest to your subpostmasters. It says,
"I believe will benefit to your members". He's talking
there about the investigation.
I'll take you to the actual letter itself. It's
POL00184393. This is the letter that was attached to
his email. He said as follows:
“I am writing to you to offer the members of the
NFSP an opportunity to engage with the investigation
into the reports of faults with the Horizon system.”
He's not saying there it is a robust system, he's
saying your members can engage with the investigation
into reports of faults with the Horizon system:
"It has taken a number of months for all parties
involved (Post Office, Second Sight, the firm
undertaking the investigation and ourselves, Justice for
Subpostmasters Alliance) to agree a document which
provides a safe and secure route for people to raise
issues without fear of any comeback because of having
done so. As ex-subpostmasters we are only too aware of
the problems involved with a serving subpostmaster
trying to raise Horizon issues, and I can assure your
membership that we would not have accepted anything less
than a guarantee of total protection.”
"The agreement which is in place not only covers
99
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
The Post Office had announced an independent
investigation to look into the reliability of the
Horizon system. Why were you so quick to dismiss this
as rubbish from the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance?
As far as I'm concerned, Alan Bates has always implied
that the Horizon system is systemically faulty. I've
always disagreed with that point of view. He's
basically said Post Office is not fit for purpose, as
well, and that it should be done away with and
I disagree with him on that as well.
That was my concern with everything that Justice for
Subpostmasters Alliance did, that they basically were
making out the whole Horizon system was systemically
broken and that, basically, you couldn't trust anything
it did, and I fundamentally disagreed with that. So not
having a nuance -- it's a bit like getting asked about
shortages under the computerised system. I've got in my
witness statement that these things happened under the
old manual system but it doesn't suit the narrative that
Horizon is systemically faulty and every complaint could
be about Horizon.
He wasn't saying Horizon was systemically faulty,
though, was he --
Oh --
If we scroll down, what he's saying to you is that
98
serving subpostmasters but also applies to all [Post
Office] employees, contractors", et cetera.
If we scroll down, please:
"The investigation wants to obtain information and
supporting documentation about unexplained Horizon
problems that subpostmasters have noticed or have
suffered from, especially those that are current. This
investigation does not replace the normal route for
dealing with problems, it is there to investigate
historic issues where there is supporting documentation
and live problems that cannot be explained.
"I hope you will take this opportunity to inform
your membership of the forthcoming opening for them to
raise their concerns with the Horizon in an environment
that has been created to alleviate any concerns they may
have about retaliation from [the Post Office], as it may
be the only chance they ever have to do so.”
All he seems to be doing there is asking you to
notify your members to take part in an independent
investigation that had been commissioned by the Post
Office. Why would you send that to the Post Office
saying:
"I have just received this rubbish from the JSA,
obviously I'll tell them Horizon is secure and robust,
and to go away..."
100
(25) Pages 97 - 100
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
I've already given my answer on that. As far as I'm
concerned, Alan Bates' whole narrative over the last so
many years has been that the Horizon system is basically
kaput, and that, basically, everything that goes wrong
in the Post Office is based on Horizon. So I make no
apologies for that. And, again, he also basically
mentioned evidence here that the Post Office Network
isn't fit for purpose it should be scrapped. I totally
disagree with that as well. So I've got fundamental
disagreements with Sir Alan Bates.
Where does it say that in this letter?
I'm talking about in general, not just this letter, his
whole demeanour.
You're referring to this being rubbish. What in this
letter is rubbish?
That was my opinion at the time and much of what Alan
has said since then I disagree with.
Let's zoom out a little bit so you can see the whole
letter. Can you point us to the part of this letter
that is rubbish?
It's my words at the time.
But what in this letter is rubbish? You were describing
in the letter as rubbish. Your response was "It's
robust, it's all fine". What's rubbish here?
It wasn't just about the letter, it was obviously my
104
We used them for many years, yes.
"Hi Paul,
"Below is a very brief draft statement which George
may want to add to. Just to recap, I think there is
a danger of the NFSP appearing to be slightly misaligned
now from [the Post Office] on this issue so I think the
second part is important."
This is the proposed statement:
"George Thomson, General Secretary of the NFSP,
said: ‘While we have never been presented with clear
evidence that the Horizon system had failed to meet its
primary purpose, we are nonetheless reassured that the
system has been found to be robust in an independent
survey, and we continue to have confidence in it.
"We are also encouraged to see that Post Office
Limited does concede that there is always room for
improvement and scope for learning and we look forward
to hearing from our members that support levels have
increased as they continue to use Horizo
Do you recall being involved in this statement?
Well, if it was in my name, of course I would be, yeah.
What would be the process of drafting? He says it's
a draft statement for you, you may want to add to it;
was there typically a toing and froing between the two
of you to finalise a statement?
103
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
understanding and my views on what Alan Bates stood for
at that particular time. And, again, if you fast
forward that up to date, I've got major issues about
what he thinks about the Post Office Network.
The Post Office had commissioned an independent
investigation into the Horizon system. Why would it
need for you to go back to Alan Bates and say, "Horizon
is secure and robust and go away"? Why was that your
job?
I've just answered -- well, I've answered you. I've
answered you about three times. I'll keep saying it if
you want me to. I disagreed with him on the robustness
of Horizon and always have done, and I disagree with him
right up to date now about the comments that he made
that the Post Office should basically be scrapped and
done away with, not fit for purpose, and all these
things. And, again, I disagree with him and that was
just recently as well, so that doesn't bother me.
Moving on, NFSP00000680. We're now moving onto the
summer of 2013, 8 July 2013, and this is an email from
Matt Adams to Paul Hook. Matt Adams seems to have
worked at a PR agency?
Yeah, we use Cobb PR.
Was that an agency that the National Federation
instructed to assist them with --
102
Sometimes, I would say, yeah. Other times, no.
Okay, well, this was 8 July 2013, at 3.41. Can we,
please, turn to NFSP00000681. Thank you. We now have
an email from Mark Davies from the Post Office, the same
day, but approximately an hour later. He says:
"Hi Paul
"Here is the statement.
“Will forward report shortly.”
Then he sets out the Post Office's response to the
Second Sight Report. If we scroll up, we can see that
Mr Hook has forwarded it to you and others.
It looks, from this email, as though where he says,
“We will forward the report shortly" that, by this
stage, you hadn't yet received the Second Sight Report;
do you recall that?
I can't recall, no, but, as I said earlier on, we
represented agents who had contracts for services,
a franchise, if you like, and we worked closely with the
Post Office to make that franchise as beneficial as we
could for everyone concerned.
What it looks like is that you have drafted
an announcement in respect of the Second Sight Report
without, in fact, having received the report itself,
prior to receiving the report.
I couldn't give you a definite. As I said, it's a long
104
(26) Pages 101 - 104
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
time ago.
You're reassured the system has been found to be robust
in an independent survey; is it likely that you hadn't
actually read the report by the time that that
announcement was being drafted?
I probably have read it but I couldn't say, it’s
12/13 years ago. I mean, I've read it a good few times
but --
Mark Davies is here forwarding the report. Did you
ultimately read the Second Sight Report?
Yeah, of course I did, yeah.
Could we, please, turn to NFSP00000682. Thank you.
This is an email with the actual ultimate statement that
was made on behalf of the NFSP. This is the next day,
9 July:
"Dear Executive Officer
"George has asked me to follow up his earlier email
by resending the report, which it appears a few people
are having difficulty opening. Please find attached",
and the report is circulated on 9 July.
"In addition, please see below the statement placed
this morning on the NFSP website ..."
This the final statement that was uploaded onto the
NFSP's website:
"The NFSP has responded to the publication of
105
used Anderson Strathern and we got a good result and
Post Office had to reimburse many subpostmasters the
money. So we were aware of them and we used them for
a few things, yes.
So he's getting in touch with you, and he says:
"I have seen/heard/read the detail of the computer
system fallout.
"Do you need any advice on the legals here? I would
be pleased to assist/advise as appropriate.”
You then forward that email to Paula Vennells if we
scroll up, and you say:
"Hi Folks
"This is the type of mess we have created with the
Horizon debacle.
"Our tactics were totally misguided."
You're not copied into the top email but this is
Mike Whitehead from the Shareholder Executive saying:
"Ambulance chasing lawyers circling!"
You say "the type of mess we have created”. What is
that, the mess you --
I believe that the company we used, Anderson Strathern
were very good, that obviously the Federation tactics
were wrong if they actually thought that we were wanting
them to take the Post Office to court.
Was "the mess you created" or that "we created" the
107
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
21 June 2024
an independent ... report on Horizon, the Post Office IT
system.
"George Thomson, NFSP General Secretary, said:
‘While we have never been presented with clear evidence
that the Horizon system had failed to meet its primary
purpose, we are nonetheless reassured that the system
has been found to be robust in an independent survey and
we continue to have confidence in it.’
"He added: 'We are also encouraged to see that Post
Office concedes that there is scope for improvement [so
these are the words we saw earlier] -- issues which the
NFSP has raised repeatedly with [the Post Office]. We
look forward to working with members and with [the Post
Office] in the coming months to increase those support
levels’.
"Post Office has also issued a statement on the
report's findings."
Could we now, please, turn to UKGI00001839. We're
still going chronologically. The bottom of page 1,
please. You're contacted by a lead commercial
litigation lawyer within Anderson Strathern. Were they
the NFSP's lawyers at the time?
We used them on a semi-regular basis and one particular
case was some postmasters were being held liable for
fraudulent Green Giros, welfare benefit cheques, and we
106
instruction of Second Sight?
No, not --
-- and their report because this comes just after the
publication of their report?
The mess we created was basically giving our lawyers the
actual thoughts in their head that they thought we would
engage them to take some kind of action against the Post
Office.
What's the "Horizon debacle", though? This is shortly
after publication of the Second Sight Report.
The whole situation.
Are you there referring to the fact that the Second
Sight Report has identified issues with the Horizon
system?
No, the Federation's tactics, in my opinion, are the
Horizon debacle for us, that lawyers that we're using
for other things actually would think that we were
coming from another direction from where we were, which
was systemic -- that the Horizon system was systemic and
robust.
Sticking with July 2013, can we please turn to
POL00173773, and we start on page 2, please. At the
bottom of this page there's an email from Mr Hook to
yourself, and he says:
"Hi both -- Matt has been contacted by a producer at
108
(27) Pages 105 - 108
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
BBC Panorama ... which is considering running
a programme on the Horizon/Justice for Subpostmasters
issue.
"To inform their decision on whether to run with the
programme or not, he's keen to talk to someone at the
NFSP in more detail about our take on the issue, and
about our experience of Horizon more broadly.
"I don't feel confident enough in my knowledge of
the system to do this. Therefore, would one of you be
willing to talk to him?"
If we see above, you sent it to Paula Vennells and
others, and you say:
"Please see email below [for your information].
So Panorama are considering running a programme,
you're being asked for a comment, and your reaction to
that is to forward it within 11 minutes to Paula
Vennells and others.
As I've mentioned on numerous occasions today, our
members were franchise holders, small business people.
We worked closely with the brand that we worked for.
I make no apologies for that. And the reason where I'm
quite hard line about things like Panorama is it didn't
try -- and ITV programmes -- they didn't try and give
a rounded picture about the volumes being done
correctly, they didn't try to give a rounded picture
109
to them that I had passed on their details, would look
bad.
"I will speak to them tomorrow, I will be very clear
that the system is robust, but that we need to be better
and more consistent when responding to claims of Horizon
faults. In addition I will say better training is
required.
“If we are not careful these Horizon shenanigans
will turn into a cottage industry."
Earlier, I asked you, if bugs were brought to your
attention, what would you do? Your answer was, at the
very least, you would have grilled the Post Office.
This is days after the Second Sight Interim Report where
it mentions bugs, errors and defects; it mentions issues
affecting branch accounting; it mentions three bugs. It
doesn't look very much like, on 11 July, you are giving
the Post Office much of a grilling, are you?
We worked closely with the Post Office as well but, when
evidence came up, I would raise it with them, yes, but
I make no apologies for working with the Post Office on
publicity regarding the brand. None at all. And,
again, as I mentioned two minutes ago, that there was --
it was always about just the Horizon errors. It was
never about the volume going through the system that was
being done correct and it was never about that we had
111
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
regarding that we had problems with balancing under the
‘old manual ledger system.
Now, all of this is in my witness statement and I'm
a bit concerned that you've virtually paid no attention
to my witness statement because it doesn't suit the
narrative.
Mr Thomson, your witness statement is in evidence, it's
going to be uploaded to the Inquiry's website, the Chair
has read your witness statement and considered it. We
are dealing with things additional to your witness
statement today and I'm taking you through a number of
documents to ask you questions about them.
But my witness statement answered quite about a lot of
the things you've been asking again.
Can we please turn to page 1, the bottom of page 1,
please. Mark Davies, the Communications Director at the
Post Office says:
"George
"Many thanks for forwarding this. As you can see it
was sent on to me.
"I'd like to contact Panorama. Are you okay with me
doing so?"
Then your response was as follows:
"Mark
“if you contact Panorama, would it not be apparent
110
problems under the old manual system as well and people
were suspended under the old manual system, people lost
their houses under the old manual system, nothing really
changed moving from manual to Horizon.
Can we please turn to NFSP00001385. You're emailed the
day after, 12 July, by somebody called Keith Richards.
He says:
"Hi George
“Don't know whether this has been sent to you
already. It stinks of so much misinformation and
untruths which is not unusual from someone who does not
know the full picture."
It's an email that has been sent from somebody
called Chris Neill. It's an open letter to the
Executive Committee. He says as follows:
"You may all be aware of certain threads on the NFSP
forum regarding recent events. It was suggested that
members should write to their
Is that Executive Officers, "EOs"?
Yes, that would be Executive Officers.
"_.. [Executive Officers] and express their feelings and
concerns. I have taken the step of copying this email
to all the [Executive Council] with published email
addresses (please copy to those who I have missed) in
the hope that the message might actually get through.
112
(28) Pages 109 - 112
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
I have also published this as an open letter on the
forum."
Yeah, Keith Richards is a -- he still works for the
Federation, he is a very good officer of the Federation.
He still works there.
The open letter says as follows:
"Out here there is a lot of bad feeling towards the
Post Office and we all feel helpless and in some cases
abandoned by our General Secretary and Executive Council
who fail to communicate with us at any meaningful level.
The General Secretary could almost be accused of
complicity with [the Post Office] and has a habit of
seemingly announcing and changing NFSP policy via
Twitter. No one likes being treated like a mushroom but
that is how we are feeling at the moment with our
destiny being controlled by [the Post Office] and an
[Executive Committee] that has secretive meetings and
fails to communicate and respond to our needs or
wishes."
If we scroll over the page, please, there's a
section there on the Horizon investigation. He says as
follows:
"The Federation's response to this report is
appalling and makes it look like we did not even bother
to read it at all and just accepted [the Post Office]
113
of errors must have been very, very small. What do you
say about the announcement from the Chief Executive of
the Rural Shop Alliance, who said that the problem is
that, even if they are rare, unfortunately, even a few
system errors a year can wreck the lives of the
subpostmasters involved; what is your view on that?
Is that Ken Parsons?
I'm not asking about the individual, although it is from
him, I'm asking about the announcement he has made that,
even if there were only a few errors a year, it can
wreck the lives of postmasters?
Making a mistake can wreck their lives. Ken can tell to
people what he wanted, he was representing his
organisation and I was representing our organisation.
And you've went over this a few times: billions and
billions of transactions, with a tiny volume of
mistakes.
Why weren't you looking out for those tiny volume of
people, who -- as Mr Parsons has said -- potentially
their lives have been ruined? Why didn't you see it as
part of your job, even if it was only a small number, to
look out for that small number?
Probably because of defending both postmasters'
reputations and the new work we were trying to get as
well, So I was careful not to be seen to be crying
115
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
press release and the first conclusion."
The first conclusion being the interim finding that
there were no systemic problems:
"The report highlights many failings within [the
Post Office] regarding its dealings with subpostmasters
as well as admitting to bugs in the software. The GS
That's you, is it?
Yeah, it will be.
"... Said '... we are nonetheless reassured that the
system has been found to be robust in an independent
survey, and we continue to have confidence in it’. This
is totally out of step with most people's and the press
reach to the report.
"Ken Parsons, Chief Executive of the Rural Shops
Alliance, said: ‘The fundamental problem is that Horizon
does not have sufficient failsafe or backup facilities
to cope when these inevitable but rare problems occur.
And, unfortunately, even a few system errors a year can
wreck the lives of the subpostmasters involved’. This
is the very least I would have expected our own union to
have said."
Let's just pause there. There has been a common
theme throughout your evidence today that it worked
overwhelmingly for a large number of people, the number
114
wolf.
What about the reputations of that small number? What
about their lives?
Well, their lives, obviously, have been -- some of them
have been dramatically destroyed, I accept that. But
again, as I've reiterated time after time, if you have
Government directors on the Board and you have a Chief
Executive tell you one thing, then it's very hard to
change.
"Post Office has admitted to past ‘bugs’ in Horizon and
the authors of the report stated there is problems with
the hardware and communications. The authors also
indicated there is a lack of information provided to
subpostmasters to adequately defend themselves. These
are our colleagues who have lost everything as a result.
The fact that [the Post Office] do not keep their
records for longer than 7 years and failed to supply the
investigators with proof of their guilt seems to have
completely been disregarded in our response. All these
issues are ones that should be and perhaps should have
been taken up by the Federation.
“It is interesting to note that the NFSP was not
mentioned at all in the report and perhaps that is
because the Federation took the stance of complete and
blind trust in Horizon without full and proper
116
(29) Pages 113 - 116
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
investigation and support on behalf of the affected
subpostmasters. If the convictions of these individuals
are found to be unsafe at a later date this stance may
come back to haunt us."
That's quite prescient, isn't it?
Well, I think, looking from where we are now and given
what I know about the Post Office and what they were
saying, yeah, we were probably much too trusting of the
Post Office, yes, that's probably the case.
You received this communication on 12 July. Why didn't
you do something about it?
I can't recall what happened to it. I'm not --
Why don't we see a single statement from yourself that
is similar to that that was made by Ken Parsons?
Well, I've just made a point that we were probably,
given what we know now, too trusting of the Post Office,
yes.
NFSP00000536. This is a meeting of the National
Executive Committee on 3 September 2013. If we look at,
please, page 11. We spoke first thing this morning
about the stages of the negotiations with the Post
Office. There's a section here on Horizon.
"Horizon
"The Post Office Interim Report on Horizon had
concluded that there was nothing fundamentally wrong
117
a postmaster, one who was in 1996 and one in '97, and
they were both blaming Horizon for losses that they had
when they were in the Post Office. And, obviously,
that's the kind of situation they were in because I had
to explain to them that, you know, Horizon wasn't in
place in 1996 or '97.
So I was -- I was aware of that and it was on the
back, also, of a situation in Scotland where there was
a £100,000 shortage in one branch, and the -- it was --
the son admitted that he had a gambling problem and he
had taken it. The father knew nothing about it. So
that was happening about the time when I was talking
about jumping on the -- that every single error or
mistake gets blamed on Horizon being faulty, and that
was always the danger in a system that's dealing with
tens of billions of pounds in short periods.
We see below, "Trade Union Status", and we discussed
that this morning:
"The General Secretary reported that recent
paperwork received had been circulated.
"The NFSP had been a trade union for some
70-80 years
"The NFSP is at present an unincorporated
association ...
"The Certification Office was set up", and then it
119
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
21 June 2024
with the Horizon system, however it highlighted the fact
that training and support for subpostmasters was not all
it could be. [Post Office] are in discussions with the
Negotiating Committee on providing training and support.
"Wendy Burke reported that there has been an issue
with the prompts on one of her screens in relation to
postage not being consistent. The Horizon system
helpline were aware of this issue. lan Park will raise
this although it did not affect any balancing on the
system.
"Believed there was no systemic problem with
Horizon."
It says this:
"People are jumping on the bandwagon and blaming
losses on the Horizon system.
"Since the report was published Shoreham HQ have
advised those that blame Horizon to write to Paula
Vennells, Post Office Limited.
"Bad publicity could prevent some customers using
Post Office and affecting the future of the Network."
Was that one of your big concerns, that bad
publicity could stop people from coming to the Post
Office?
Well, part of it was that but, also, I had two phone
calls from -- one was a postmistress, one was
118
gives the date:
"It is believed that disaffected ex-members with the
backing of the CWU, had questioned the NFSP's status
with the Certification Officer.
"The [Certification Office] intends to delist the
Federation on 4 October 2013. Will no longer be a trade
union within the next two months but will still remain
as an unincorporated association.
“Currently have 6,100 real members of whom all are
self-employed."
If we scroll over the page, if we go down three
quarters of the way, please. There's an entry there
that, by this time, it says:
"Believed joining with the CWU will not be an option
as they represent Crown Offices etc and the NFSP
believes that these are not viable to the network."
If we scroll down, the bottom two bullet points:
“Questioned if the NFSP's funds would need to be
paired back to members.
"Suggested to try and extend the date of 4 October
for the NFSP being delisted as trade union. Confident
will have influence with [the Post Office] for the next
year because of [Network Transformation]."
Over the page, please:
"Possibly realise the ambition of representing all
120
(30) Pages 117 - 120
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
subpostmasters and operators through auto enrolment once
the NFSP is not longer a trade union because there would
no longer be the threat of being a closed shop."
Then we have:
"Bhavna Desai [the third from bottom bullet point]
asked if any letter to members could be sent sooner
rather than later as she believed there would be motions
to say all the assets will have to be dissolved and the
members will not see any of the money."
So it seems as though, at the very time when you are
dealing with the fallout from the Second Sight Report,
there are also some serious concerns about the future
funding of the National Federation; do you agree with
that?
Not in particular, but there was discussions regarding
did the Federation have a long-term future? Did it have
enough resources to go on and, as I said to you earlier
on today, I had a meeting with the — well, a lot more
than one -- with Philip Bloor, the Finance Director,
where I said would we be able to go on independent for
about a year and a half, and Philip quite categorically
said to pay -- "to wind everything down, George, people,
when they've got their money back, there will be no
money left because the staff will have been looked
after" and, because we'd been around a long time and all
121
our view on Horizon because we were looking at our
future and we were going to go absolutely not. And
I probably support the Horizon system as much now as
I did then. Obviously, I'm furious about the
shenanigans of the Post Office, the holding back of all
this information but, more importantly, I'm furious at
the Post Office for taking people to court and people
giving professional expert witness statements, knowing
that people could access your computer. That's
scandalous.
But in terms of, as I said before, it being
systemically robust, it is. The Post Office were crazy
to take people to court knowing that they were lying on
a regular basis about being able to get into the Horizon
system. Quite bizarre.
Mr Thomson, you said that you were furious at the Post
Office for withholding information. But now, July 2013,
you had information. You that the Second Sight Interim
Report, which, in fact, raised bugs that talked about
discrepancies. Why at this stage were you still
promoting the Horizon system?
As being systemically robust, yes, because having bugs
in the system does not show the Horizon system was not
systemically robust because what you'd been doing now is
saying the same thing even now.
123
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
the staff in Shoreham had been around a long time,
I made sure we changed the contracts and every member of
staff who was in Head Office, if we had ended up
folding, were -- an extra year's compensation was put in
for them, if they was -- if they were going to be sacked
or made redundant, whatever you want to call it.
So, again, the money wouldn't have lasted very long.
There wasn't very much. I was making sure that the
staff, some that had been there 20/30 years, were all
going to be looked after if we ended up having to call
it a day.
The suggestion, though, that may be made is that it was.
very important for you at that time to keep the Post
Office on side to ensure that they could fund the future
of the NFSP?
You see, I disagree with that because my support of
Horizon has -- I know in some of the evidence -- I think
Mark Baker said something that my support for Horizon
was stronger than, when we were in the mutualisation,
trying to get that. That's not the case because I've
always supported Horizon. I've made that quite clear.
I was told today to do the opposite of what I've
done, "Just come along, George, blame the Post Office
for everything, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry", but I'm too
open for that. The reality is that we did not change
122
Can we turn to UKGI00005002, and it's page 2 I'd like to
look at. We're going to move on now in time quite
considerably to 2015. If we scroll down, please. Your
PA is writing to George Freeman, who I think was
a minister at the time. She says:
"I write on behalf of George Thomson, leader of the
organisation representing the subpostmasters in the UK.
He would very much like to meet with you to explain
exactly why, as an organisation, we believe the Post
Office Horizon compute is robust, secure and accurate."
Why, as late as 2015, did you feel the need to have
to promote to a minister that the Horizon computer
system is robust, secure and accurate?
I've answered you loads of times but I'll do it again
for the benefit of doubt: because I've always believed
that the Post Office Horizon system and EPOS system is
a robust system. Now, having bugs in the system, the
postmaster should have been told about and they should
have been rectified, I agree with that, but having some
bugs in the system does not stop it being a systemically
robust system. In fact, the Second Sight Report makes
that point, yet you're trying to imply it does.
You've used the word "accurate" there as well. You're
not just saying it's robust, you're saying it is both
also secure and accurate; does that make a difference?
124
(31) Pages 121 - 124
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
It's what I said at the time, yes, so I'm not going to
dance on a pinhead about that.
Can we please turn to POL00152986. This is the final
document we'll go to before lunch. We're still in the
summer of 2015, can we start on page 4, please. If we
look halfway down page 4. There's a Panorama programme
in 2015, August 2015. If we scroll down, you say:
"Our reply will be consistent, Horizon is robust,
last night's programme was bullshit.
"George."
Page 3, please, bottom of page 3., from you to Mark
Davies -- well, Mark Davies responds:
"Good to see George. I was surprised they didn't at
least reflect your view in the programme as
representative of most postmasters."
You respond:
“Hi Mark
"Similar to requests for Paula to resign, I have had
two subpostmasters so far demanding my resignation, any
attempt to now soften both our instances on Horizon
would be catastrophic for the Network and company."
If we scroll up, please. We have Mr McConnell on
page 2 emailing Mark Davies, and he says:
"Hi Mark,
"We have issued the statement below to members -- we
125
querying it. The vast majority of subpostmasters never
queried it had systemic -- there's a lot more now --
systemic failures.
I will actually take you to one more document before we
break for lunch because you've mentioned Mark Baker.
Could we please turn to CWU00000013. This is the press
release from the CWU of the same time, 17 August 2015:
"Dear Colleague.
"Post Office: Panorama Programme on Horizon Issues
"I'd like to advise branches and members that the
BBC's 'Panorama’ programme ... will highlight the issues
faced by many postmasters in relation to alleged
problems with Horizon system."
So their acknowledgement there is that there are
issues faced by many postmasters in relation to alleged
problems with the Horizon system.
The announcement then sets out the synopsis of the
programme, and then it quotes from Andrew Bridgen. If
we scroll down, it says:
"The subject was also raised during Prime Minister's
Questions on 1 July 2015, when Andrew Bridgen ... asked
the following:
"Owing to ongoing issues with the Post Office's
Horizon software accounting system, I believe that many
honest, decent, hard working subpostmasters and
127
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
remain firm on Horizon, you'll appreciate too we need to
remain the ‘critical friend’ stance."
If we scroll down, this is a statement that you put
out following that Panorama programme in 2015. If we
scroll down the page and over to the next page, there's
just one paragraph I'll read to you there:
“Put simply, the NFSP has not received calls from
subpostmasters querying Horizon and alleging systematic
failings. If there were a widespread problem, our
subpostmasters would have made us aware of it. As
a result, we have no choice but to conclude that Horizon
is a fundamentally sound and safe system.”
Now, Mr Thomson, we saw those complaints. We saw
them go to your inbox in 2013. We saw quite a number of
quite detailed complaints. How is it you felt
comfortable, following that Panorama programme, to say
that you've not received calls from subpostmasters
querying Horizon and alleging systematic failings and
that, if there were, the subpostmasters would have made
you aware of it? You had, in fact, received --
I don't believe these were querying systematic failings.
They were sent on individual cases. I think the only
people that were claiming, in my opinion, that there
were systemic failures were people like Alan Bates and
probably people like Mark Baker and Helen Baker who were
126
subpostmistresses have lost their reputations, their
livelihoods, their savings and, in the worst cases,
their liberty. This is a national disgrace. Will my
Right Honourable friend consider the request from
Members across the House for a judicial inquiry into
this matter and bring it to a conclusion?"
It has below the Prime Minister's response
acknowledging the service that Mr Bridgen had carried
‘out in campaigning tirelessly on the issue.
Why couldn't NFSP announcements be as balanced as
this announcement?
Because we were closer to the issues than the CWU and,
again, the CWU had -- over 200 members were convicted,
and I don't know what the CWU did about that in terms of
courts, or anything like that, or -- what's the
phrase -- put the money where their mouth is and did
something about that, I'm not sure. About 200 staff
were convicted over that period, and --
What they don't do, though, at any stage in these --
certainly not in any documents that we have, is
an announcement that says that Horizon is
a fundamentally sound and safe system, like you did,
after the Panorama programme. Why is there such
a difference between yourselves and the CWU on this?
Well, I think it is sound, systemically sound, but also
128
(32) Pages 125 - 128
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
I believe that -- and that's when I should have used the
word "nonsense" rather than "BS" on a few things but
it's about the lack of balance and -- ie there's nothing
in any of these programmes or ought the ITV documentary,
there's nothing at all that mentions that problems that
happened before Horizon, the old manual system, many,
many of them, and the sheer volume of transactions that
were going through the Network that were spot on, the
‘overwhelming majority.
So that's all the programmes that have come out I've
always been very critical of because they haven't given
a balance. It's been one side of this system is
rubbish, you know, we've all been let down with it, and
part of the let down by it is true, of course, because
of the Post Office's actions, but there has never been
a balance explaining that, yes, we had as suspensions
under the old manual system, we had people going to jail
under the manual system, we had people losing their
houses under the manual system and, God forbid, in the
old days as well, there were some suicides as well.
I understand that and that is heartbreaking but there
was no balance it's almost like all these problems.
began, the losses, when Horizon came along, and that's
simply not the case.
MR BLAKE: Sir, I think that's an appropriate moment for us
129
A. Yes, it did.
Q. Could we now turn to page 22. There is a section on
“Any Other Business". If we scroll down, we have there:
“Peter Montgomery asked what the policy of the NFSP
was in regard to Freeths Solicitors who are asking
subpostmasters that they believe suffered losses as
a result of Horizon to allow Freeths to work on their
behalf and take the Post Office to court.
"The CEO [that's you] explained that Freeths are
basically ambulance chasers. Freeths are desperate to
get subpostmasters to engage with them.
"Freeths also maintain that subpostmasters contract
is unfair with regard to the subpostmaster being
responsible for losses.
"It is up to the individual to decide whether they
wish to sign a contract or not.
"Legally a contract does not have to be fair."
So is that your view as expressed at that meeting?
A. Yes, but we'd been told -- we'd actually taken advice
about the contracts some years before and we were told
that - we engaged solicitors in London -- that
a contract doesn't have to be fair because, you know, if
you sign it, it doesn't -- it has been unfair. I think
everybody feels for a long time that the contract has.
been too one-sided towards the Post Office and members
131
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
to take our lunch break.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes.
MR BLAKE: Could we come back slightly before 2.00, could we
perhaps come back at 1.55?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Certainly. As you know, Mr Blake, our
normal finishing time on a Friday is 3.00 and, as it
happens, for personal reasons, I can't go beyond 3.00
today. Are we still likely to finish this witness in
that period or may we need to think about --
MR BLAKE: No, sir, we will finish. I only have five or ten
minutes, and questions from --
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right. Alll right. Well, 1.55 then,
that's fine.
MR BLAKE: Thank you very much.
(1.04 pm)
(The Short Adjournment)
(1.55 pm)
MR BLAKE: Good afternoon, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Good afternoon.
MR BLAKE: Can we please move to NFSP00000500, we're now
moving on to the summer of 2016, June 2016, and
a meeting of the council. If we scroll over the page,
please, over to page 5, we can see that, by this time
you are Chief Executive Officer, I think, did the title
change over time?
130
expressed that on regular occasions, yeah.
Q. Were you upset with Freeths because they were
undermining the position of the NFSP at this stage?
A. Well, we'd never had much engagement with Freeths
whatsoever but I do -- you know, the -- when I say
ambulance chasers, they did end up -- if it wasn't for
Government intervention, the subpostmasters that had the
case ended up getting very little money, you know, and
I think what little money there was was swallowed up in
costs, wasn't it?
Q. At the bottom:
"The NFSP's policy has always been that it is
a robust system and we have full confidence in it."
That was the policy that you explained earlier.
If we scroll over, please:
"Do not believe that the system is systemically
faulty.
“Most people that blame Horizon for losses are
overinflating their cash declarations, false
accounting."
Where did you get that from?
A. The reality is, is there some people that have lost
money because of Horizon bugs and faults and the Post
Office's stance are criminal cases? Absolutely, there
has been. However, and I've not been given -- you've
132
(33) Pages 129 - 132
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
been very careful in not allowing me to say this, but
this has always been the case: postmasters -- everything
has always been kept in-house within the Post Office
industry, same with Royal Mail, and I've been at cases
over the years even when it was the old manual system,
where errors are sometimes mentioned on the stack,
just -- in the old days you had to do things with
pencil, you had to add up two pensions, if you got that
wrong you could lose money.
So there's always been mistakes made. Most of the
errors that postmasters have are genuine mistakes by
them or their staff. That goes for the old manual
system, the ledger system, and the Horizon system. The
vast majority of complaints about Horizon were nothing
to do with Horizon. They were basically just things
being done wrong, not by intention, but by mistake.
How did you form the opinion that most people that blame
Horizon for losses are overinflating their cash
declarations? How did you come to that conclusion?
One of the key red flags the Post Office used to use,
they couldn't do it so much under manual system, but it
was about cash declarations. Under the old manual
system you are meant to put your cash declarations in
every night as well but lots of people didn't put them
in, No one really checked the old ledgers until
133
which is how you personally formed the opinion most
people --
Well, I'm giving you that background of why I formed
that opinion.
Let's move on to the next bullet point:
"Subpostmasters take money sometimes and members of
staff also take money.
“Reminded that members of the Council should adhere
to collective cabinet responsibility."
Is that, in effect, saying that all members needed
to tow the line in respect of the line regarding the
Horizon system?
Well, you make a collective decision and it is like the
British cabinet, or it should have been like the British
cabinet. You make a collective decision and that
becomes the policy of the organisation, yes, that's
correct.
Can we please turn to POL00248962. Moving now to 2017,
27 April, page 5, please. If we start on the bottom of
page 5, there is an email from Andrew Parsons, who was
an external lawyer advising the Post Office. If we
scroll down, please. He is emailing Thomas Moran and
Rodric Williams at the Post Office. He says:
"Please see attached a letter from Freeths
[regarding] advertising the GLO. Most of this is just
135
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
Auditors came out, so you might have had a situation
where you hadn't put the overnight cash holding in for
ages and you do the balance once a week or once a month
but, with Horizon, you had to make your cash declaration
every night, so a lot of the times -- and I remember
an office, who were claiming extra fivers all the time
and, when Auditors went out, instead of having 8,000 or
9,000 fivers in the branch, there were none at all.
And the reality is that the vast majority
postmasters and the vast majority of claimants on the
Horizon Inquiry are decent, honourable, honest people.
I won't dispute that for a minute. But it's a franchise
that's been struggling for -- even before the Horizon,
and people -- that's why we used to encourage people to
take the compensation and leave with the restructuring
programmes. So yes, so the Post Office were aware,
when -- and it was a red flag -- when it seemed to be
the money they needed for running the branch, they were
ordering more in than what the cash declarations would
suggest. So if your cash declaration said you had --
Mr Thomson, we need to move on.
Well, you've asked -- I have to give a bit of background
and, you know -
We don't have time for the level of detail that you're
going into right now, in respect of a simple question,
134
process points which we will deal with in due course,
however in the penultimate para they ask for [the Post
Office's] consent to place an advert in SubPostmaster
Magazine."
He says, in the final paragraph:
“Are the NFSP still generally supportive of [the
Post Office] and Horizon? If so, it would be quite
a powerful message if Freeths approached the NFSP and
the NFSP refused to allow the advert on the grounds they
thought the litigation was meritless. This type of
message would have to be reported up to Freeths'
insurers and funders, and it would perhaps knock their
confidence if a key ‘Union’ was standing by [the Post
Office] rather than the Claimants."
If we scroll up to page 4, please, the middle of
page 4., Mr Moran responds to Mr Parsons, and he says:
"Thanks. George is very negative about Freeths'
approach and I do not think will accept this in his
publication. It is not our decision.
"For the avoidance of doubt, we have no direct
control over the magazine which is edited independently
by the NFSP. So the obvious approach would be to inform
them of that and redirect them to contact the NFSP
direct. In the meantime, I would inform George of the
[possibility] by forwarding the letter, which I'll do
136
(34) Pages 133 - 136
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
now."
Scrolling up, Mr Parsons then advises the Post
Office, he says:
"Tom -- be careful about emailing George. Your
email may not be privileged. Keep it neutral."
Mr Moran responds:
“Nick Beal will be speaking to George on a planned
call later today so will note this to him. He's
absolutely confirmed that the magazine is entirely NFSP
so our letter should simply make that clear and redirect
to them."
If we scroll up to page 2, Mr Parsons responds and
he says:
"A call with George is better than an email -- no
audit trail to disclose."
If we turn to the first page, please, Mr Moran
reports back after having had a conversation. He says:
"I. can confirm that we have made George Thomson at
NFSP aware, and the response should be as advised to
redirect Freeths to NFSP directly as we have no control
over the publication.”
Do you recall a conversation with the Post Office
regarding the approach from Freeths to advertise in the
NFSP magazine?
I think we did discuss it. We worked -- as I said
137
we are to agree an approach using the [SubPostmaster]
Magazine to try to rebuild the confidence in Horizon."
Do you recall a conversation with Angela van den
Bogerd about using the SubPostmaster Magazine to try to
rebuild the confidence in Horizon?
I don't recall it but, given my strong support for the
systemic nature of Horizon, it wouldn't surprise me, no.
But I can't recall it but I'd imagine it's correct.
Can we turn to POL00314729. 19 April 2015, Mr Davies
emails you:
"Hi George
"BBC planning to go to town on Second Sight Report
tomorrow, really attacking Post Office.
"The journos dealing with it are", and he gives
their details.
"Up to you of course if you want to get involve but
wanted to let you know."
Did Mark Davies see you as a convenient voice in
favour of the Horizon system?
I've got a lot of time for Mark Davies. We worked
closely and, again, I make no apologies, not just on
Horizon, that's one of the things that I've got in my
witness statement. We have to work closely with the
Post Office on Government work, Network restructuring,
all the issues. So we were used to dealing with it. In
139
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
21 June 2024
before, I make no apology, we worked very closely with
the Post Office on behalf of the franchise holders and
that's quite common. If you have a franchise, you work
with the company that gives you the franchise. That's
common behaviour.
Did you refuse to advertise the Group Litigation in the
magazine?
Well, this is where I'm not sure. I don't know what --
I've got a feeling that -- I've got a feeling it went in
but I'm not 100 per cent. I really can't recall but
I've got a feeling they maybe did get an advert in the
Subpostmaster but I'm not 100 per cent. I could be
wrong on that.
Can we turn to POL00162362. I'm now going back in time
slightly to 2015. I just want to ask you a few
questions very briefly about the relationship between
yourselves and the Post Office's Communications Team and
their senior executive. This is 2015, in relation to
the Mediation Scheme. If we scroll down, there is
an email from Angela van den Bogerd to Mark Davies at
the Post Office, and it's a paragraph that I'd just
like -- it's that middle -- the bottom paragraph now,
the final sentence. She says to Mark Davies, in
relation to this particular issue, she says:
"I have discussed this issue with George Thomson and
138
fact, one of the -- I think it was David McConnell, he
had -- the Post Office were cutting back staff and we
had a vacancy in our Communications Team and David
McConnell, because he knew the Post Office inside out
because he was working there, David McConnell joined us
as one of the -- I think he was press officer, I think.
So, you know, that was a close tie. We had good working
relationships with the Post Office and, again, as
I said, as a franchise -- as an organisation who
represents the franchise holders, who have all got lots
of money invested in the company, we obviously have to
work closely with the company. That's common sense.
If we turn to POL00315623. If we look at the bottom
email on that page, 29 April 2015, there is an email to
you:
"Hi George,
"Roland Gribben at The Telegraph is enquiring about
whether there is an update about Horizon (see below).
"I haven't spoken to him yet. Is there anything
further to say at the moment ..."
If we scroll up, you respond to the Post Office and
you say:
"Hi Guys
“Are we still battening down the hatches.
"[Very best], George."
140
(35) Pages 137 - 140
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Mark Davies responds:
"Hi George
"We are being pretty robust in pushing back to be
honest -- not necessarily always reported!
"Not really sure what he is getting at here?"
Was this a typical --
Was this after Paula and Angela van den Bogerd gave
evidence to the Select Committee in 2015, was that after
it or before it? Was that after it?
I can show you. If you turn to the second page, there's
a little more detail.
I'm not 100 per cent but --
It says, "Here's the statement we received after the
Select Committee"?
To be honest with you, within Post Office Limited, I was
up at meetings, you know, a couple of days after the
Select Committee. My view was quite clear and
I expressed it very strongly, that the performance of
Angela and Paula -- and I'm not decrying them, they've
got a job to do, but they should have been open and
honest with these committees and the Inquiry. I thought
it was a car crash of a performance and that was well
shared by many people at senior level, and that's --
I think that "batten down the hatches" was the feedback
from that.
141
I've made the point, time after time today, that Horizon
is a robust system and that working with the Post Office
as of -- as an organisation that represents postmasters
with the franchises and having a lot of money invested
in the branch, I worked closely with the post office.
But I've told you that about seven times or eight times
today, so it shouldnae come as a surprise.
Can we please turn to POL00162628. If we start on
page 2, please. 19 August 2015, an email from Calum
Greenhow who was, at that point, NFSP Branch Secretary
South of Scotland Branch. If we scroll down, he says:
"George,
"I have received the BSC from you yesterday in
response to the recent programmes aired by the BBC on
the Post Office.”
He addresses the Panorama programme.
Can we scroll over the page, I'll read to you
three paragraphs from his email. He says at the top
here:
"Imagine for a moment if what was highlighted
through the programme was true? Where would that leave
those subpostmasters affected, where would it leave [the
Post Office] and where would it leave the NFSP?"
If we scroll down to the final two paragraphs, he's
highlighting there the developments over time, and he
143
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
When I went in -- and this is truthful -- I was so
concerned with how it -- how they didn't have a grip of
it, that I said they should basically -- anybody who had
something in the system for a claim, they should settle
the claim and get this brought to a head, get this
brought to a close because it was so damaging for the
brand and these people who were genuinely making these
claims should be just settled and get it brought to
a conclusion, get it done. And if they'd done that
eight or nine years ago, it probably would have been
better for everybody, including people who were affected
with it.
That's how bad -- that's what -- that's what -- I'm
pretty certain that's what -- 90 per cent certain that's
what it refers to, battening down the hatches --
Can we please turn to POL00228278, the next month,
10 May, halfway down the first page, please, an email
from Mark Davies. He says:
“Our media relationships with George and team are
very good at present -- he has been tipping us off,
privately, about people sniffing around Horizon and
I genuinely don't see this as coming from him."
Itis in relation to a negative article. Were you
tipping off the Post Office privately about people
sniffing around Horizon?
142
says:
"There are just too many impartial experts that cast
doubt on [the Post Office's] and subsequently the NFSP's
position. It's the criminal justice expert, the
computer expert, the forensic accountant, the computer
programmer and of course 144 MPs. The NFSP should be
echoing the Prime Minister in calling for every
assistance to get to the bottom of this issue to ensure
‘once and for all on behalf of all members, past, present
and future, that there categorically is no issue now,
nor has there ever been a problem with Horizon.
"It would be encouraging if the NFSP showed support
for those 20 subpostmasters that are currently having
their cases reviewed. None of us would wish any
innocent individual to have their reputations,
livelihood and liberty ruined incorrectly. Sometimes
things go wrong and let's face it we've been around the
Post Office long enough to know it often does."
Your response to Mr Greenhow is on the previous
page. You say as follows:
"Thank you for sending me your individual thoughts
‘on Horizon and sharing further individual thoughts on
our forum. My statement, comments over the last
12 years on Horizon have been on behalf of the Executive
Council, both as an Executive Officer and then General
144
(36) Pages 141 - 144
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Secretary, my comments however are on behalf of
Executive Council, I can assure you that the [Executive
Council] still believe that the Horizon system is robust
and safe.
"Once again thank you for contacting me on this
important subject."
Asstrong rebuttal to Mr Greenhow there.
Well, can I -- do you want me to answer that?
Yes.
I'll come onto that in a minute but Calum actually
was -- words are cheap, actions are difficult. Calum
was in place for over a year and a bit before Justice
Fraser, and the Federations position, so when he was in
a position to change anything, he didn't. Basically, he
was in a position for a year and a half to change the
Federation's support on Horizon, and he didn't.
Now, turning to the email, it was always believed by
many of the officers on the Executive Council, that
Calum, at that particular time, was close to a few
people around about the CWU postmaster section and we
believe that he obviously spoke to other people, and
that they were not necessarily coming direct from Calum
but on behalf of a small group around of the CWU.
Isn't it reasonable, what he's suggesting to you there,
that all the NFSP really needed to do was show support
145
because the better you can make a franchise, the theory
is, the more -- the better rewarded your members will
be.
Did you see Mr Greenhow as the enemy?
Not in particular because I was a supporter of Calum
becoming the Chief Executive after I left. So not
particularly. People can have views, people can change
their views and, as I said, Calum was part of the team
and, when I left, there was no change at all to the
Federation's position until I believe they got a -- they
got quite a rough -- well, they weren't invited but
Justice Fraser gave the Federation a bit of -- I believe
a bit of a kicking.
I wasn't there at the time and I think that's when
the Federation's position changed to basically, you
know, it's all the Post Office's fault, which it is, and
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. But I'm try and to give it
more nuance. There was more going on than just the Post
Office making a Horlicks of taking people to court on
duff evidence where they knew people were lying.
I mean, I could sit here all day and just repeat that:
it was their fault, you know, it was their fault, it was
their fault; and it was but it's more nuanced because
losses and suspensions happened long before Horizon.
The volumes are massive, and you show eight or nine
147
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
for a small number of subpostmasters who were currently
having their cases reviewed?
A. I've answered the question. The question was that
Calum, at that time, we believed, was quite supportive
of some of the people who joined the CWU and that was in
the background of that answer as well.
Q. What we see at page 1, at the bottom of page 1, is what
you did with that information. You sent it to David
McConnell and Mark Davies at the Post Office, "For your
information". Why would you send that email from Calum
Greenhow and your response to the Post Office
Communications Director?
A. I've made the point many times today. Our job was to
protect subpostmasters' franchises, make them as
valuable as we could. There was a small amount of
postmasters who claimed to have problems with Horizon in
comparison to the billions of transactions and, working
with the owners of the brand that you worked for, is
what I would expect a good trade association to be
doing. We never seen them as the opposition, as the
enemy. Sometimes unions may see it that way.
We always worked with them and, now and again, there
would be spats, and I'd have fallouts with Paula but we
worked with the company that held the franchise of our
members and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that
146
emails at me. We were dealing with billions of
transactions: billions of transactions.
Q. Mr Thomson is it just a coincidence that these emails of
the very close relationship between yourself and the
Post Office's Communications Team, is it a coincidence
that they were occurring around the time that you were
negotiating these significant sums of money --
A. Absolutely not. I've said to you before, countless
times, my support for Horizon didn't get worse or better
at the time of these discussions. It never changed.
And I've been as big a supporter, and -- what you don't
get from this is that yous cannae answer why Horizon now
is doing 3.5 billion pounds of banking transactions
a month for a system that has been rubbished and kicked
to hell over the last seven, eight years and, in
particular, the last three years.
MR BLAKE: Thank you, sir. Those are all the questions that
have.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Thank you.
MR BLAKE: We have some questions from Mr Stein, followed by
Ms Page, followed by Ms Watt.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right. I take it, ladies and gentlemen,
that you can accommodate my timetable this afternoon.
MR STEIN: (Off microphone)
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: You're on now, Mr Stein.
148
(37) Pages 145 - 148
21 June 2024
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
MR STEIN: I'm afraid, we can't hear you.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: You can't hear me? Right. Well, then,
just ask the questions --
MR STEIN: We still can't hear you, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, that's very strange.
MR STEIN: Sir, can you hear me?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, clearly.
MR STEIN: We can how hear you, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I If I've learned one thing about the world
in this Inquiry it's that, occasionally, there are
glitches, Mr Stein.
MR STEIN: Perhaps that's a surprise to Mr Thomson.
Questioned by MR STEIN
MR STEIN: Mr Thomson, many of our clients have been
>
watching your evidence today and are of the view that
you got into the Post Office bed with Paula Vennells and
did whatever she wanted you to do; is that a fair
description of what was going on?
No, it's nonsense.
You've given evidence and you've spoken about the fact
that -- and I quote, this is about 12.38 today -- "We
had problems under the old manual system as well", you
said, "People were suspended under the old manual
system. People lost their houses under the old manual
system. Nothing really changed."
149
both under the old system and the new system.
Right. Well, can you try answering my question.
I was answering your question.
Now, what I asked was this: that you were aware under
the old system that people lost their houses, under the
old manual system. Your evidence is that that continued
under the Horizon system, that's what you're saying?
Absolutely, yes.
What did you, when you were at the National Federation
of SubPostmasters, do about that, Mr Thomson?
Well, when we were -- for example, when we were changing
to Horizon Online, I sent an email out to our members
reminding them that the Auditors were coming and, when
you were changing from the first stage of Horizon to the
second stage of Horizon, there would be a full cash and
stock declaration. That was me warning them to make
sure it was right, and it goes back to when it was
manual.
We always told members, "You have to make sure that
the cash in stock that you have there is correct because
your contract is liable for it".
And to be honest with you, given the volumes of
business we were doing, particularly for the Government,
the Government knew it was -- Auditors were a deterrent,
it was a deterrent for postmasters not to borrow or take
151
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
9
10
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
21 June 2024
Yes.
I see. So that's something you were aware of when you
went into the post at the National Federation of
SubPostmasters, is it?
Of course it was, yes.
What did you do to try to change that position under the
old system, so that people did not lose their houses,
did not lose their livelihoods, Mr Thomson?
No one ever wants someone to get in that position,
however, cash is a tool of the trade of the Post Office
industry and we used to do billions of pounds of value
transactions a month, just for the DWP alone. So the
difference between our owners and, say, a shopkeeper or
a newsagent was there was always significant sums of
cash around and the vast majority of postmasters -- the
vast majority of postmasters -- were straight as a die.
Mistakes could be made before, of course, as I said
before, people adding things up, but you were
responsible for it.
I could give you so many cases, for example the
Federation would send someone along, say, on a Thursday
morning, on a Friday morning? The Auditors would phone,
we would go along and we would try and get a resolution
but, depending on the kind of money that was missing,
that's when it could have life changing implications,
150
Post Office money, and every year, there was two or
three -. just a fact of life, I know you're shaking
your heads -- 200 or 300 people under the old manual
system were suspended, not prosecuted. Some were
prosecuted, 200 or 300 were suspended. It was ongoing,
and it was the same with postmen. Now, we tried to keep.
that as in-house as much as we can because it's not just
about protecting the brand, it was about protecting
postmasters standing in their community but you always
get -- postmasters that are decent people but, if your
circumstances change and let's say someone lost their
job or you were going to lose your house --
There was a case of an old postmistress in Scotland,
under the manual system, they did an audit and she was
£6,000 short and she to admitted to them that the postal
salary had become so low and unaffordable that she had
been paying her electricity bill and gas bill for the
last five years and she said she always intended to put
it back -- she never got prosecuted, I may add -- always
intended to put the back "but I could never afford to do
it" so this I part of what -- there's no balance to the
thing. It's almost like the Post Office problems and
balancing problems only started with Horizon; that's
an absolute nonsense.
25 Q. Now, Mr Thomson, we need to finish by 3.00, can we have
152
(38) Pages 149 - 152
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
a go at that?
I'll come back if I have to.
The position in relation to subpostmasters, are you
trying to say that the ones that fell foul of the system
under the old manual system and the Horizon system, are
you trying to say they're collateral losses, like you're
a World War I general ordering the troops over the
Somme; is that what you're trying to say --
No, it's a fact of life, if you use Post Office and
Government money, either taking it for yourself or staff
take it, you're liable for it. Now, if you didn't have
that, the Government used to pre-fund the benefits to
the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds a month. If
you didn't have that kind of deterrent, then you
couldn't have run your company, for obvious reasons.
But that money is a tool of the trade and the money is
still a tool of the trade. And that's what concerns me
going forward because, at the moment in time, the Post
Office, basically, have got a company that, if it wasn't
‘owned by the Government, would be bankrupt, as we speak,
and that would be collateral damage.
So your view and your evidence is that the contract and
the interpretation of the contract by the Post Office,
which is that subpostmasters must pay up, regardless, of
fault, your view ~
153
Wait a minute, let me finish --
We need to make progress, Mr Thomson. I think even you
know that. Can we go to a document please, can
POL00189165, page 3 of that document, please.
If we go to page 3, and scroll down, please. Right.
Thank you. That's ideal. Okay.
Now, this relates to a subpostmistress called
Jennifer O'Dell and we can see the dates that we're
concerned with in 2009. II'm just going to point out
couple of examples but all of the examples, essentially,
are very similar. So this is Mrs O'Dell talking to the
Post Office helpline, and these are notes that are made
by a Post Office Investigator. Okay? Alll right.
So, let's look at the 5 November entries, as
examples. 5 November 2009:
"Spoke to Mrs O'Dell today."
Now, this is talking about the helpline, the Post
Office helpline; do you understand that, Mr Thomson?
Yeah.
Okay:
"Spoke to Mrs O'Dell today. Office has a loss of
£7,000. She has been carrying the loss since May.
Explaining to [postmistress] that this also should have
been made good when she's been rolling her TP but she
refuses to make it good as she said the loss is not
155
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
No, I never said "regardless of fault”, I never said
that. Don't put words in my mouth, please!
Well, I was going to put the words back into your mouth
by repeating what you said, which is that it was
a deterrent, the system was a deterrent, putting the
‘onus, it seemed to be, what you're talking about
regarding audits, on the subpostmaster; was that your
view?
Having an audit, having Auditors was a deterrent, yes,
it was well known, and it was -- I joined the Post
Office at 18 and I knew from the age of 19 that the Post
Office done private prosecutions. Royal Mail still do
some private prosecutions, as we speak, but that's
mostly against dog owners that have been warned and
warned about their dogs biting postmen. So I knew from
19 years old, 18/19 years old, that we done private
prosecutions because we had hundreds and millions of
pounds of Government money sloshing about in Post Office
safes. Now, that's a fact.
Now, in an ideal world, in an ideal world, we want
nobody to take it but, when you get to cases where you
turn up, and postmasters are met, "You're should have
£60,000 cash, why you got £30,000?" This was before
Horizon --
Mr --
154
hers."
Then the second, 5 November:
"[Subpostmaster] reports having £1,000 loss a month
since May now totalling £7,000+ that she refuses to make
good as she blames the system for the losses."
All right? So we can see what's happening here,
Mrs O'Dell is phoning up the Post Office helpline and
saying, "Look the system, I don't know what's wrong,
there's something wrong with the system, it's adding up,
keeps on building up, to substantial losses of thousands
of pounds, as you can see."
Do you understand that's what she's saying? Do you
understand that, Mr Thomson?
Yeah, I do.
Okay. She's being told, as we can see by the helpline
"Look you need to make up for these losses". Did you
know that that was what was going on with the Post
Office helpline?
Postmasters were responsible -- I did --
Did you know that was going on with the helpline
organised by the Post Office?
I'm not sure.
Well, it's a bit of a black or white answer, isn't it?
You either did or you didn't, Mr Thomson. Did you know
that the Post Office helpline was deterring people by
156
(39) Pages 153 - 156
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
saying, "You pay up for shortfalls, it's up to you to
pay"; did you know that?
I probably did, yeah, but can I just come back on that
point? It was in the contract, it's -- people make --
people make mistakes. The attitude -- the questions
you're giving is that every single mistake that was made
and every single shortage that a postmaster had, and you
started off manually and you've now onto Horizon, must
have been because of the Horizon system. That's
fundamentally incorrect, what you're saying there.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, I don't think that's what Mr Stein
A.
is saying but the question is simply this: were you
aware, Mr Thomson, that, generally speaking, if
a postmaster rang up the helpline and said, "I've got
this problem and the result is I've got a shortage of
£6,000", the stock answer from the helpline would be
“Well it's your responsibility to make that good"?
Myself or some of the team would be aware of that
without a doubt, yeah.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Fine. Thank you.
MR STEIN: So the situation that you accept was that
subpostmasters were being told to pay up, despite the
fact, as Mrs O'Dell did, she was saying, "Look I don't
know what's going on it's not my fault, it's the
system". You knew that; is that right?
157
MR STEIN: Because, in fact, I was reading a quote from
2
Fujitsu, the people that run the system, that owned the
system. They accept that those types of bugs, errors
and defects existed within the system.
But the point you make is that any single -- regardless
of what you said there, any single mistake that was
made, even if it wasn't Horizon, as long as it was
blamed on a potential bug or a potential glitch in the
system, would be down to the system's fault. That means
that the company couldn't run, even now. If every
single mistake was blamed on a glitch in Horizon, and
everybody blamed that, then, quite frankly, why would
you not be tempted?
The Post Office and the NFSP were tied together, weren't
they? The survival of the Post Office meant the
survival of the NFSP but without the Post Office, the
NFSP couldn't survive?
Well, I've already said --
You agree with that?
I've already said that because we lost that many
members, we did the right thing for the network, we got
about 8,000 members out with big chunks of compensation,
so they got their investment protected, right, some
people had had Horizon problems as well. We got -- we
got a temporary in there or got them reinstated, so they
159
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
5
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
a
21 June 2024
Anybody could blame Horizon on a mistake that they made
or their staff could make and, in fact, I think there
was over 200 subpostmasters' staff were actually
prosecuted not the postmasters, not the CWU members, but
their staff. So staff can take money as well, of
course, they can. But what's coming across is that
every single mistake that was made or every single claim
mistake was down to Horizon and, again, that is wrong.
Do you now accept, Mr Thomson, that there were a number
of bugs, errors and defects in the Horizon system that
had the potential to affect and did affect the integrity
of Post Office branch accounts; do you now accept that?
I now accept that all the prosecutions that took place
were unsafe because the Post Office were aware of the
things that you are saying, yeah.
Do you now accept the --
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = That's not Mr Stein's question,
A
Mr Thomson.
If I tell you that, in this Inquiry, both the Post
Office and Fujitsu have formally admitted that there
existed bugs, errors and defects which had the
capability to cause balancing losses, do you dispute
what they admit?
No, I'm not disputing that.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Fine. Thank you.
2
158
could get out of money. So, yes, after the three
closure programmes or three restructuring programmes
whatever you want to call them, yes, our organisation
basically either had to do a deal with the Post Office
or merge into the CWU or --
That deal, Mr Thomson, that deal included contractually
accepting that the NFSP should not do anything to
criticise or undermine the Post Office. You essentially
betrayed your own membership, didn't you, Mr Thomson?
I don't accept that for a minute. My position on
Horizon changed not one jot with any work we did on
a deal with the Post Office but, as I said earlier on,
I did realise that it was forcing us to pull our teeth
in other directions, on paying things and, actually, for
me, I no longer wanted to do it.
Did you tell the membership of the NFSP that a deal had
been struck, in exchange for the Post Office shilling,
that you would be gagged from criticising and
undermining the Post Office? Were they told about the
details of that deal?
We weren't gagged and it was passed at the --
Did you tell them the details?
We weren't gagged and it was passed at the special
conference by the membership. That's the reality. It
wasn't George Thomson that passed it, it wasn't the
160
(40) Pages 157 - 160
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
A.
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Executive Council, it was the membership that passed it,
at a special conference.
Now, you've demonstrated, Mr Thomson, in your evidence,
that you're aggressive, you're belligerent and that your
work on behalf of the Post Office, it seems, ignored the
very subpostmasters that you represented through the
union of which you were a member; do you accept that?
I dispute that and, you know, to be called belligerent
by yourself is a bit strange.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: IAll right.
MR STEIN: One last question, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right, yes.
MR STEIN: Do you think if you turned your aggressiveness
A
and belligerence on the Post Office, actually, you might
have done some good for subpostmasters?
I don't accept your question. It's a nonsense.
MR STEIN: Thank you, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Thank you.
Questioned by MS PAGE
MS PAGE: Do you know an NFSP representative called Norman
A.
Bradbrook?
Yeah, for long time. Norman was -- yeah, he's a good
age now. Yeah -- or he was -- it was a long time ago,
yeah.
Did you say ~- did I catch that right ~- that he was
161
11 years at that point without any difficulty, and this
was 2001, so not long after Horizon was rolled out.
Mr Bradbrook attended Mr Kalia's interview and gave
him this advice. He said:
"Mr Kalia, you should admit that you've stolen the
money. That's the best way of keeping your office and
keeping out of being prosecuted. Admit you've stolen
the money. Give them a story. Pay the money back."
Was that the sort of advice that you might have
given, as an Area Secretary, to anyone who sought your
assistance?
No, we would tell people to come clean about it and we
would try and get a solution to that. And most of the
time it was -- depending on the money but most of the
time it was -- you'd get a hardship payment to pay it
back. In other words, get it deducted every month from
your salary and, that way, you kept your position. In
particular, when people were going to leave under
Network Restructuring, under Network Reinvention and
Network Change, Network Transformation, we would always
try and help them make sure they could get out with
their compensation, if possible.
All right but, in this instance, you're saying that,
perhaps, if somebody comes clean, that's the right
thing, you think, is it?
163
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
prop
>
21 June 2024
a good agent?
Age, sorry.
Oh, good age?
Yeah, he was quite a lot older than most of the team.
Right. What sort of a person was he, from your point of
view? Did you like him? Did he fit in at the NFSP?
I've not really got a view on that. I knew of him.
I knew he could be seen as being a bit -- not eccentric,
he was a nice old guy.
Allright. Well, in July 2001, one of my clients,
Mr Parmod Kalia, he was a member of the NFSP and he
sought assistance from the NFSP when he was being
investigated over a shortage. The representative who
attended his interview was Norman Bradbrook. At that
time, 2001, you'd have still been Area Secretary; is
that right, you weren't yet on the Executive?
Yes, I was Area Secretary for Scotland, yes. That's
correct.
Mr Colin Baker was General Secretary; is that right?
Yeah, Colin would have been General Secretary then,
yeah.
The NFSP was already clear, under his leadership, that
Horizon was a good thing; is that fair?
That is correct.
Now, bear in mind Mr Kalia that been a postmaster for
162
Only if they did it, yeah.
Only if they did it. All right. Well, do you accept
that sort of advice is pretty helpful to Post Office
Investigators?
Well, I don't know; I didn't give it. You're asking me
something that happened six -- you know, I was the Area
Secretary. Colin Baker was the General Secretary.
No, no, that sort of advice. That sort of "Come clean"
advice; "Tell them you did it" advice. Helpful to the
Investigators, no?
Only tell them you did it if you did it. You know, what
kind of justice would that be, telling somebody to do it
if they didn't do it? Sometimes it was -- I mean,
I gave the example in Scotland. It was the father --
the father was absolutely wonderful -- about £100,000,
and he said, "I haven't taken £100,000", and he hadn't.
It was his son and it was found out his son had
a gambling problem.
These things happen, and this is why, in my
statement, I've tried to give a lot of nuance and
I haven't been allowed to obviously go on to it because
that's not the narrative. But the reality is that, when
money is there, there's a temptation. The vast majority
of subpostmasters didn't succumb to temptation but some
did, because the franchise was struggling. That's why
164
(41) Pages 161 - 164
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
we needed three restructuring programmes.
People couldn't make a living. They couldn't pay
their bills. That example I gave in Scotland of the old
lady up north.
Q. Mr Thomson, can you accept that, if you gave advice for
somebody to make an admission, that was helpful to the
Investigators? Can you accept that, or not?
A. Not necessary -- it would depend on the circumstances if
it was helpful or not. Telling the truth is the best
help you can give somebody if they're due the Post
Office a lot of money.
Q. Allright. You see, on the one hand, it can leave
somebody like Mr Kalia high and dry, yes? Because he
goes to prison, he's disgraced, his family savings are
gone. But, on the other hand, Mr Bradbrook's presence
in the interview, it gives the Investigators cover,
doesn't it, because it gives the appearance of being
fair, doesn't it; do you see that?
A. I can see that but, you know, this is what I found
difficult to accept. People say, well, for example,
“I was £30,000 short. How could that happen if it
wasn't Horizon?" It could easily happen. If there's
£60,000 in my safe and I'm desperate, and I take £30,000
and I keep it and I spend it -- almost like the
questions I've been asked here -- all of a sudden, it
165
because they knew I was going to be more robust.
So I've come here today without a solicitor because
the National Federation of SubPostmasters didn't like
the fact that I was going to be robust and tell the
truth, not just come along and apologise for the sake of
apologising. And, as I said before, the NFSP had a year
and a half after I left to change their policy about
Horizon and they didn't do it.
So I'll have no -- I won't be talked to by the
Federation about my position. Their position didn't
change for a year and a half when it could have changed.
MS PAGE: Thank you, sir. Those are my questions.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right.
Ms Watt, please.
Questioned by MS WATT
MS WATT: Thank you, sir.
Mr Thomson, I appear for the NFSP. The organisation
of today has some questions for you, which I'm going to
put. So I'm just going to start by summarising and then
I'll have a couple of questions after that.
As we've seen and heard in the evidence, you had
received numerous complaints about Horizon across the
years. People such as Lee Castleton and Sir Alan Bates
wrote to you not about their cases but to alert you, as
the General Secretary of the NFSP, to Horizon and the
167
ONOaARWN
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
21 June 2024
has to be Horizon because money can't disappear. Well,
I'm sorry; that money didn't disappear: it was taken.
Well, Mr Thomson, the issues around what happened to the
money are perhaps for other people. Let's just come
back to the role of the NFSP as representatives in
interviews.
Well, I wasn't the General Secretary in 2001, so you're
finished with that question.
How about, then, this: your role as General Secretary
was pretty much the same but writ large, wasn't it? You
provided cover for the Post Office leadership because,
‘on the one hand, you left the subpostmasters who'd been
wronged high and dry but, on the other hand, you gave
the impression for the Post Office leadership that they
were being fair, that they were listening, that they
were doing everything that they could to make sure that
the subpostmasters were looked after, whilst actually
riding roughshod over them, Mr Thomson?,
No, I don't accept that and I was advised that I should
come on here and just blame it on the Post Office:
apologise, apologise, apologise. II'm trying to give it
more nuance. And, in fact, I believe, because the
Federation thought I was going to be more robust, that
they refused for me to have a lawyer here today. They
refused to help me with the legal costs here today
166
many issues. What you did was forward Sir Alan's email
to Paula Vennells within a very short space of time and
describe it as "rubbish". There were questions from
your own members asking if there is not something that
needs to be looked at. Mark Baker and others tried to
raise issues before eventually leaving the organisation.
Everyone is shut down.
So the question is, as the General Secretary of the
membership organisation, how could you have done that
instead of ask yourself the question, "Is there not
something in this", and do something about it to help
your members and others?
Well, first off, I can take the Mark Baker part there.
Mark Baker was more concerned -- I think Mark had some
issues with Horizon but Mark's biggest concern on why we
left was he felt that the Network Transformation was
wrong for the Network and there was more arguments about
that. But, again, I've reiterated my point time after
time. Our members were franchise holders who had
invested significant sums of money and we worked closely
with Post Office Limited. And I make no apology for
that. Why would the membership organisation of the
franchise holders not be working with the company to
make the brand the best they could?
It's common sense and that's what we did. And
168
(42) Pages 165 - 168
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
I make no apology for that.
Q. Mr Thomson, it was all there in front of you but you
would not see it; isn't that so?
A. Well, I worked with the Executive Council, all the Area
Officers, the Branch Secretaries, the Executive
Council -- it's not just a one-man show -- the Executive
Council, and I took on the mantle from Colin Baker. The
policy and the position never changed. It never
changed. Colin was a big supporter of Horizon because,
like myself, he realised that, if we didn't get Horizon,
the network would have collapsed. 400 million of
Government funding would have left straightaway as
pensions were put into the bank. So we've always been
big supporters of the Horizon system.
But again, the point I've said before already, the
Federation had a year and a half after I left to -- and
it only moved its position when Justice Fraser,
I believe, said some remarks. So, for a year and
a half, you could easily have changed your position.
But, of course, it's just George Thomson. Well, of
course the Fed existed after me and it had, as I said
before, a year and a half to do something about it
before Lord Justice Fraser and did nothing about it.
Q. Mr Thomson, will you not accept that, under the time you
were the General Secretary, that, in relation to
169
these questions that I've got in my witness statement
today but it doesn't serve the narrative.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: That's as may be. The plain fact is
that, ultimately, all of your evidence, written and
oral, will be taken into account by me when I make my
report.
That said, if, in the course of the next few
minutes, you wish to say to me anything that you think
you need to cover orally, I will allow you to speak to
me for five minutes or so to make those points,
Mr Thomson.
THE WITNESS: Here? Open here? Yeah.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Now. Yes, now.
Statement by THE WITNESS
THE WITNESS: That's good. Just to repeat what I've said on
numerous occasions, my problem always has been that was
there some bad justice handed out with the Post Office?
Yes, there was. Was there some stupidity on steroids
management where you would take people to court and ruin
their lives and prosecute them, when you actually knew
that your witnesses were lying? That's stupidity.
That's absolute stupidity, right.
And it would have been easy just to come here today
and stick to that script, and everything else was "I'm
not sure" or "I can't recall".
171
ONOaARWN
25
©NOORON
©
"1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21 June 2024
Horizon, your members didn't get the help that they
needed?
A. Again, I'll reiterate the point. The billions and
billions of transactions, a tiny -- and I'm sorry if
it's the truth but that's the reality. And I wonder if
the Inquiry has done any work about what percentage of
transactions -- the billions of transactions that ended
up with claims against it, we had a small, small
fraction. And over 100,000 people have used the Horizon
system since it came in.
MS WATT: Thank you, Mr Thomson.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Thank you.
Now, Mr Thomson, you've mentioned your witness
statement on a number of occasions. Can I assure you
that I have read it twice recently and once when I first
saw it, so I'm very familiar with its contents.
Further, if it has not already been published, it will
soon be published for everyone who is interested to read
it. So the points which you have made in your witness
statement but which you may not have been asked direct
questions about during the course of today will be well
known to anyone who wants to familiarise themselves with
it. All right? In particular, I am fully familiar with
it.
THE WITNESS: It would have been nice to be asked some of
170
But there's more nuance than that, and the Inquiry
is not taking any real account into the fact that you
had all these problems before Horizon. You had hundreds
of postmasters suspended every year. You had people
going to prison before it. And some of the questions
it's asked, it would mean like you cannae just have no
consequences if you make mistakes genuinely or you take
money. There has to be consequences or a business
wouldnae be viable. So that's the second thing, right?
So they've got some things wrong, absolutely. They
prosecuted, which is quite outrageous, based on lies.
But there has to be a recognition that these problems
did not start with Horizon. You know, I was in the --
three or four years, when I first started in the '90s,
I was at a postman's house, because there was a raid
with the security branch. He had, in today's money,
£50,000 of parcels and money out of letters. Obviously
that was in the ‘90s.
I was at a Crown Office where a member of staff had
had losses on a regular basis. The auditors wanted to
go into a locker up the stairs and she wouldn't let
them, and I was almost fighting with them. But when
they did get in her locker, she had £1,000 bag in £20
notes that had been done to send to the remittance unit
and she had kept it.
172
(43) Pages 169 - 172
ONOaARWN
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
We had a small village post office that my staff ran
until the postmasters could sell it, who admitted -- he
had bought it for £60,000, it didn't make enough money,
he had been there three years -- he had taken £30,000.
This was in the mid-'90s. So, for me, you know, it's
not Alice in Wonderland no one ever, ever would take
money or make mistakes. That's Alice in Wonderland
stuff.
What I'm saying quite clearly, it has to be more
nuanced than what you're being and that's why the kind
‘of comments I've made regarding some of the
organisations, some of the witnesses, is because it
takes no cognisance of that -- and some of the TV
programmes. You look at -- for example, you take the
ITV documentary. No background, in the sense that these
kind of things -- people had losses and it affected
their life before we had Horizon. Nothing about that.
Nothing about the sheer volumes of transactions.
And, again, one of the issues, I would say, about
this Horizon Inquiry, have yous actually tried to find
out the kind of billions of volumes that were done and
the percentage of people claiming there was a mistake?
It will be probably less than 1 per cent but yous
havenae done any of that.
So that's all I want to say: that I think there has
173
INDEX
GEORGE RITCHIE THOMSON (sworn) ...
Questioned by MR BLAKE ....
Questioned by MR STEIN .. 149
Questioned by MS PAGE ... 161
Questioned by MS WATT .... 167
Statement by THE WITNESS .. 171
175
ONOaARWN
21 June 2024
to be better balanced and better judgement than where
we've ended up.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right.
Thank you very much for making your witness
statement. Thank you very much for giving oral evidence
during the course of today.
So that brings today's proceedings to a close.
We will resume again on Tuesday morning at 9.45
with, I think, Mr Gareth Jenkins. Is that correct,
Mr Blake?
MR BLAKE: That's correct, sir. Thank you very much.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Thank you very much.
(2.52 pm)
(The hearing adjourned until 9.45 am
on Tuesday, 25 June 2024)
174
(44) Pages 173 - 175
1
MR BLAKE: [19] 1/3
1/5 1/9 28/7 50/10
54/8 54/12 54/16 91/2
91/9 129/25 130/3
130/10 130/14 130/18
130/20 148/17 148/20}
174/11
MR STEIN: [12]
148/24 149/1 149/4
149/6 149/8 149/12
149/14 157/21 159/1
161/11 161/13 161/17
MS PAGE: [2]
161/20 167/12
MS WATT: [2]
167/16 170/11
SIR WYN WILLIAMS:
[29] 1/4 27/20 50/7
54/10 91/5 130/2
130/5 130/12 130/19
148/19 148/22 148/25I
149/2 149/5 149/7
149/9 157/11 157/20
158/17 158/25 161/10
161/12 161/18 167/13
170/12 171/3 171/13
17413 174/12
THE WITNESS: [4]
50/9 170/25 171/12
17115
"90s [5] 8/9 25/7
172/14 172/18 173/5
"97 [3] 8/10 119/1
119/6
‘BS' [1] 7/18
"bugs' [1] 116/10
‘critical [1] 126/2
‘fess [1] 66/19
‘fingers [1] 86/23
"Network [1] 18/9
"Owing [1] 127/23
‘Panorama’ [1]
127/11
‘rollover’ [1] 86/20
"small [1] 86/9
"The [2] 94/25 114/16
‘They'd [4] 38/8
"Union' [1] 136/13
"We [3] 94/21 103/15
106/9
“While [2] 103/10
106/4
-- and [1] 108/3
w= [1] 28/19
../Network [1] 28/19
1 January [1] 83/20
4 July [4] 127/21
1 million [2] 19/19
36/20
1 per [4] 173/23
1,000 [5] 69/6 88/8
88/14 156/3 172/23
1,376 [1] 83/20
1.04 [1] 130/15
1.25 million [2] 24/8
24/9
1.55 [3] 130/4 130/12
130/17
10 [5] 16/20 46/23
46/24 92/7 92/11
10 inches [1] 78/1
10 May [1] 142/17
10/11 [4] 83/5
100 [5] 85/24 90/10
138/10 138/12 141/12)
100,000 [8] 2/22 3/16
5/24 6/17 119/9
164/15 164/16 170/9
11 [2] 83/5 117/20
11 December [2]
28/11 29/23
411 July [1] 111/16
11 May [1] 48/9
11 minutes [1]
109/16
11 years [1] 163/1
41,000 [2] 17/11
17/12
11,500 [1] 94/23
11.00 [1] 54/13
11.10 [2] 54/12 54/15
12 [4] 3/20 3/21
41/14 112/6
12 July [1] 117/10
12 years [2] 16/20
144/24
12,000 [2] 17/12
19/15
12.00 [4] 91/6
12.10 [2] 91/4 91/8
12.38 [1] 149/21
12/13 [1] 78/16
12/13 years [1] 105/7
13 [3] 3/21 47/16
78/16
13 January [3] 20/19
21/9 21/13
13 years [1] 41/14
13,000 [4] 17/11
130 [5] 76/25 89/25
90/8 90/11 90/13
14 [1] 24/7
14 inches [1] 78/2
14 July [1] 69/4
144 [1] 144/6
15 [3] 4/12 24/8 37/3
15 years [2] 35/9
36/8
15-year [2] 31/22
32/11
157.08 [2] 69/25 70/5
16 [1] 24/9
160 [1] 81/14
17 August [1] 127/7
175,000 [5] 14/4 14/6
14/15 15/6 19/14
48 [1] 154/11
18 July [2] 59/7 69/2
18 June [1] 36/24
18 years [1] 2/1
18/19 [1] 154/16
19 [3] 154/11 154/16
154/16
19 April [1] 139/9
419 August [1] 143/9
1992 [2] 2/6 13/24
1996 [2] 119/1 119/6
1999 [5] 2/23 3/16
5/25 6/18 10/23
2 million [1] 36/20
2,500 [3] 25/14 25/18
69/7
2.00 [1] 130/3
2.5 [4] 27/14
2.5 million [2] 24/10
27/4
2.52 [1] 174/13
20 [4] 44/9 66/10
144/13 172/23
20 December [1]
97/6
20-odd [1] 66/18
20/30 [1] 122/9
200 [8] 39/9 40/5
81/14 128/13 128/17
152/3 152/5 158/3
2000 [3] 9/1 10/23
42/5
2001 [4] 162/10
162/15 163/2 166/7
2003 [2] 59/7 69/2
2004 [8] 2/8 2/23
55/11 59/9 68/23 69/3
69/24 71/19
2006 [10] 42/18
42/25 43/16 43/17
44/7 44/8 44/16 46/21
46/22 47/23
2007 [3] 2/10 42/21
71/19
2009 [7] 48/8 48/9
54/20 57/19 57/22
155/9 155/15
2010 [1] 84/5
2011 [2] 17/11 18/4
2012 [11] 17/11 18/4
71/23 74/10 81/19
82/22 85/16 91/10
91/11 94/12 97/6
2013 [21] 11/25 12/2
14/5 16/23 19/14
19/18 23/15 23/21
29/25 41/3 42/8 85/17
91/10 102/20 102/20
104/2 108/21 117/19
120/6 123/17 126/14
2013-14 [1] 24/7
2013/2014 [1] 28/9
2014 [8] 20/19 21/9
21/13 24/22 28/9
28/11 29/23 30/1
2014-15 [1] 24/8
2015 [24] 29/25 30/1
31/17 35/4 35/14 36/7)
36/7 36/22 41/3 42/8
124/3 124/11 125/5
125/7 125/7 126/4
127/7 127/21 138/15
138/18 139/9 140/14
141/8 143/9
2015-16 [1] 24/9
2016 [2] 130/21
130/21
2017 [4] 24/10 27/4
27/15 135/18
2018 [2] 2/13 6/13
2024 [5] 1/1 1/15
5/25 6/18 174/15
2028 [1] 24/11
21 [4] 6/10
21 June [1] 82/19
21 June 2024 [1] 1/1
22 [2] 6/15 131/2
22 June [1] 78/22
22,000 [1] 18/12
23 May [1] 1/15
230 [2] 90/12 90/13
230,000 [1] 62/11
24 March [1] 59/9
25 [4] 3/1 7/9 10/4
91/11
25 June [1] 91/11
25 June 2024 [1]
174/15
25 years [2] 3/8 9/3
250,000 [2] 18/12
53/8
26 [2] 3/12 25/15
27 April [1] 135/19
27 June [2] 91/12
94/12
27,000 [1] 69/9
29 April [1] 140/14
29 July [1] 33/23
29 May [1] 35/4
29 September [1]
54/20
3
3 September [1]
117/19
3 years [1] 31/14
3.00 [3] 130/6 130/7
152/25
3.41 [1] 104/2
3.5 [2] 81/1 148/13
3.5 billion [2] 8/2
10/14
30 [2] 66/10 122/9
30 July [1] 33/25
30 per [1] 50/10
30 per cent [4] 49/2
49/8 50/14 50/20
30,000 [4] 154/23
165/21 165/23 173/4
300 [2] 152/3 152/5
300,000 [2] 58/25
71/3
300-400 [1] 5/15
34 [4] 1/18
31 August [1] 84/5
31 December [1]
17/10
33 [1] 3/20
34 [1] 4/2
341,850 [1] 18/8
342,000 [1] 19/16
37 [1] 4/12
37,000 [1] 60/15
38 [1] 4/19
39 [1] 5/2
4
4 October [2] 120/6
120/20
4,200 [1] 69/8
4.50 [1] 68/25
400 [1] 5/15
400 million [1]
169/11
45 [1] 5/9
49 [1] 5/23
5
5 February [1] 29/25
5 November [3]
155/14 155/15 156/2
5 years [2] 34/24
79/18
5,000 [1] 41/13
5,000-and [1] 53/12
50,000 [1] 172/17
500 [4] 8/19
500,000 [3] 19/19
24/7 2713
54 [41] 6/10
59 [4] 6/15
6
6,000 [5] 41/15 53/11
65/23 152/15 157/16
6,100 [1] 120/9
6,500 [1] 18/3
60 [3] 6/22 40/6
88/24
60 per cent [1] 49/6
60,000 [5] 16/11
(45) MR BLAKE: - 60,0000
6
60,000... [4] 16/19
154/23 165/23 173/3
60-odd [2] 67/11 68/2!
600 million [1] 8/20
63-year-old [2] 74/20
81/4
67 [1] 7/9
7
7 October [1] 57/19
7,000 [5] 18/3 19/16
41/15 155/22 156/4
7.00 [1] 19/10
7.5 million [1] 31/14
70 million [5] 45/12
76/5 85/8 92/16 93/6
70,000 [1] 18/12
70-80 years [1]
119/22
77 [1] 88/4
8
8 July [2] 102/20
104/2
8 November [1]
69/24
8,000 [2] 134/7
159/22
8,500 [1] 41/13
80,000 [6] 15/22
15/23 16/11 16/19
16/25 19/14
9
9 July [1] 105/15
9 May [4] 13/20
9,000 [1] 134/8
9.45 [2] 1/2 174/8
9.45 am [1] 174/14
90 [1] 142/14
A
abandoned [1] 113/9
ability [4] 22/25
able [10] 23/3 39/4
44/2 57/6 63/24 74/24
84/15 96/5 121/20
123/14
about [159] 2/14 5/13
9/4 11/5 13/13 13/22
16/19 19/10 20/12
21/10 22/17 22/24
23/2 23/4 25/7 25/18
26/9 27/11 31/18 40/6
41/3 41/13 45/12
45/22 46/9 46/14
46/23 47/23 49/1 49/6
49/13 50/17 50/19
57/8 58/13 58/16 59/4,
64/6 65/15 65/24
66/13 66/20 67/25
69/18 71/11 72/21
72/22 72/22 72/23
73/6 75/23 76/19
76/20 78/12 78/16
79/13 80/2 81/1 83/13
85/2 85/3 85/8 85/12
86/4 88/23 89/10
89/22 90/18 92/19
93/12 93/13 94/15
97/10 97/15 97/17
98/16 98/21 99/4
100/5 100/16 101/12
101/25 102/3 102/4
102/11 102/14 109/6
109/7 109/22 109/24
110/12 110/13 111/23)
111/24 111/25 115/2
115/8 115/9 116/2
116/3 117/7 117/11
117/21 119/11 119/12)
119/13 121/12 121/21
123/4 123/14 123/19
124/18 125/2 128/14
128/17 128/17 129/3
130/9 131/20 133/14
133/22 136/17 137/4
138/16 139/4 140/17
140/18 142/21 142/24)
143/6 145/20 149/9
149/20 149/21 151/10)
152/8 152/8 154/6
154/15 154/18 155/17,
159/22 160/19 163/12)
164/15 166/9 167/7
167/10 167/22 167/24)
168/11 168/17 169/22)
169/23 170/6 170/21
173/17 173/18 173/19)
above [4] 39/8 79/15
81/23 109/11
absolute [2] 152/24
171/22
absolutely [17] 42/13
42/24 49/13 57/23
59/24 60/7 74/3 79/24)
89/19 123/2 132/24
137/9 146/25 148/8
151/8 164/15 172/10
accept [21] 32/20
70/5 95/23 95/23
116/5 136/18 157/21
158/9 158/12 158/13
158/16 159/3 160/10
161/7 161/16 164/2
165/5 165/7 165/20
166/19 169/24
acceptable [1] 26/14
accepted [4] 39/1
97/3 99/23 113/25
accepting [2] 82/4
160/7
access [15] 3/10
9/14 49/18 50/1 50/17
51/5 65/16 66/21 67/5
67/6 67/8 72/22 95/14
95/19 123/9
accessed [1] 65/17
accidentally [1]
47/21
accommodate [1]
148/23
Accordingly [1] 21/6
account [8] 19/21
29/3 80/8 82/6 83/25
85/3 171/5 172/2
accountancy [1]
92/15
accountant [1] 144/5
accountants [3] 10/8
92/4 93/4
accounted [1] 4/6
accounting [3]
111/15 127/24 132/20
accounts [6] 18/19
48/13 55/21 68/3 84/3
158/12
accuracy [1] 62/22
accurate [6] 62/20
76/12 124/10 124/13
124/23 124/25
accuse [1] 66/1
accused [5] 7/22 9/9
65/25 75/2 113/11
achieve [1] 36/4
acknowledgement
[1] 127/14
acknowledging [1]
128/8
across [5] 27/21
94/24 128/5 158/6
167/22
Act [2] 13/24 21/6
action [13] 8/14 8/17
51/11 53/9 54/5 62/1
62/11 64/24 65/4
79/19 81/24 82/11
108/7
actions [3] 57/12
129/15 145/11
active [3] 8/16 15/7
26/1
actively [1] 56/3
activities' [1] 18/9
actual [6] 4/21 15/13
57/16 99/5 105/13
108/6
actually [28] 10/10
13/13 14/22 19/8 20/1
22/14 33/7 36/3 41/23)
43/25 44/2 44/22
59/10 85/16 94/6
105/4 107/23 108/17
112/25 127/4 131/19
145/10 158/3 160/14
161/14 166/17 171/20}
173/20
Adams [2] 102/21
102/21
add [4] 103/4 103/23
133/8 152/19
added [3] 83/20
90/11 106/9
adding [2] 150/18
156/9
addition [2] 105/21
111/6
additional [2] 19/15
110/10
Additionally [1]
17/23
address [6] 3/22
13/25 48/10 54/18
7517 85/4
addressed [3] 21/2
50/3 50/5
addresses [2] 112/24
143/16
addressing [4] 13/9
20/19 21/1 26/18
adequately [1]
116/14
adhere [1] 135/8
adjourned [1] 174/14
Adjournment [1]
130/16
adjustments [1]
87/12
admin [8] 3/10 49/19
72/22 76/22 76/22
76/25 77/4 89/11
administration [1]
9/14
admission [1] 165/6
admit [3] 158/23
163/5 163/7
admitted [5] 116/10
119/10 152/15 158/20
173/2
admitting [4] 114/6
advantage [2] 21/16
22/8
advantages [1] 39/23}
advert [3] 136/3
136/9 138/11
advertise [2] 137/23
138/6
advertisements [5]
17/4 17/8 17/10 17/13
19/15
advertising [2] 17/7
135/25
advice [15] 22/12
22/13 57/5 75/6 75/7
84/17 107/8 131/19
163/4 163/9 164/3
164/8 164/9 164/9
165/5
advise [2] 107/9
127/10
advised [4] 69/20
118/17 137/19 166/19}
advises [1] 137/2
advising [1] 135/21
affect [3] 118/9
158/11 158/11
affected [11] 5/16
10/24 67/10 67/12
68/2 68/3 88/24 117/1
142/11 143/22 173/16)
affecting [2] 111/15
118/20
afford [3] 28/4 34/24
152/20
afraid [1] 149/1
after [50] 4/14 12/11
19/11 19/12 19/13
21/10 22/19 23/9
24/22 35/6 40/10
47/18 58/2 60/23
70/20 70/21 74/21
75/3 75/11 79/20
84/14 89/4 92/8 93/21
93/21 93/21 108/3
108/10 111/13 112/6
116/6 121/25 122/10
128/23 137/17 141/7
141/8 141/9 141/13
141/16 143/1 147/6
160/1 163/2 166/17
167/7 167/20 168/18
169/16 169/21
afternoon [7] 23/23
37/7 37/13 87/7
130/18 130/19 148/23}
again [42] 6/23 7/9
19/11 23/11 25/18
39/1 39/21 46/22 47/8I
56/9 60/4 60/24 61/24
64/25 66/10 78/3 78/9I
80/10 80/22 85/7
85/13 89/20 94/7
101/6 102/2 102/17
110/14 111/22 116/6
122/7 124/14 128/13
139/21 140/8 145/5
146/22 158/8 168/18
169/15 170/3 173/19
174/18
against [9] 5/20 34/9
35/24 52/7 53/10
82/12 108/7 154/14
170/8
age [5] 2/2 154/11
161/23 162/2 162/3
agency [4] 83/15
84/17 102/22 102/24
agenda [1] 55/4
agendas [1] 61/7
agent [1] 162/1
agents [2] 24/14
104/17
ages [1] 134/3
aggressive [1] 161/4
aggressiveness [1]
161/13
ago [11] 8/1 16/20
66/18 78/17 80/6 83/5
(46) 60,000... - agoO
A
ago... [5] 105/1 105/7
111/22 142/10 161/23)
agree [13] 26/22
27/15 31/22 33/1
35/18 42/12 42/14
52/13 99/17 121/13
124/19 139/1 159/19
agreed [7] 16/14 31/2!
35/15 38/23 41/4 41/5
72/8
agreement [24]
15/21 23/24 24/6
24/25 25/2 28/19 29/2
29/7 29/8 29/16 29/18
29/19 30/5 30/10
30/18 30/25 31/20
32/1 32/21 32/22 35/7
35/13 36/7 99/25
ahead [2] 8/18 86/5
aired [1] 143/14
akin [1] 35/19
Alan [13] 48/17 48/18)
54/1 97/5 97/6 98/5
101/2 101/10 101/16
102/1 102/7 126/24
167/23
Alan's [1] 168/1
albeit [5] 22/11 29/18
32/2 32/2 71/7
alert [1] 167/24
Alice [2] 173/6 173/7
aligned [2] 40/23
49/14
all [101] 4/5 7/5
12/17 15/11 18/18
22/1 22/13 24/4 24/14,
26/3 26/18 26/18
27/11 28/1 39/13
39/17 39/24 40/19
40/22 40/24 41/1 41/2
45/21 46/20 48/6
48/19 54/6 54/10
55/18 55/24 57/13
61/12 61/22 63/8
64/17 65/5 73/1 76/6
77/15 83/4 86/7 86/18
89/18 93/9 93/11 94/6
94/7 96/6 99/14 100/1
100/18 101/24 102/16}
110/3 111/21 112/16
112/23 113/8 113/25
116/19 116/23 118/2
120/9 120/25 121/8
121/25 122/9 123/5
129/5 129/10 129/13
129/22 130/12 134/6
134/8 135/10 139/25
140/10 144/9 144/9
145/25 147/9 147/16
147/21 148/17 155/10}
155/13 156/6 158/13
161/10 162/10 163/23
164/2 165/12 165/25
169/2 169/4 170/23
171/4 172/3 173/25
allegations [2] 83/1
83/2
alleged [3] 83/10
127/12 127/15
alleging [2] 126/8
126/18
alleviate [1] 100/15
Alliance [6] 97/23
98/4 98/12 99/17
114/16 115/3
allow [5] 35/10 59/6
1314/7 136/9 171/9
Allowance [1] 90/9
allowed [5] 8/21
37/15 49/24 55/24
164/21
allowing [2] 67/21
133/1
allows [1] 24/12
almost [9] 13/2 78/10
84/15 95/15 113/11
129/22 152/22 165/24)
172/22
alone [1] 150/12
along [12] 16/4 31/25
38/8 38/11 38/15
38/19 56/11 122/23
129/23 150/21 150/23}
167/5
alongside [1] 87/25
already [17] 15/2
31/2 32/4 32/9 32/16
39/7 54/24 80/10
93/22 96/23 101/1
112/10 159/18 159/20)
162/22 169/15 170/17)
also [32] 16/15 17/18
17/25 18/6 19/3 30/18
39/6 40/7 40/7 48/11
66/22 79/20 83/12
87/1 87/12 88/25
100/1 101/6 103/15
106/9 106/16 113/1
116/12 118/24 119/8
121/12 124/25 127/20)
128/25 131/12 135/7
155/23
alternative [1] 25/16
although [8] 32/3
34/18 38/21 83/15
85/1 86/10 115/8
118/9
always [52] 3/3 4/3
4/8 6/25 7/1 8/22 9/12
9/13 9/24 10/21 13/4
18/16 33/8 33/14 36/1
40/9 46/1 49/11 52/18)
64/5 64/10 64/10
64/13 81/17 89/10
89/21 92/14 93/6 98/5
98/7 102/13 103/16
111/23 119/15 122/21
124/15 129/11 132/12
133/2 133/3 133/10
141/4 145/17 146/22
150/14 151/19 152/9
152/18 152/19 163/20
169/13 171/16
Alwen [3] 79/11
79/14 79/16
am [17] 1/2 35/6
49/15 54/13 54/15
55/8 55/13 55/17
79/12 79/18 79/20
80/23 82/11 85/11
99/8 170/23 174/14
Amanda [2] 78/8
85/19
Amar [1] 48/17
ambition [1] 120/25
ambulance [3]
107/18 131/10 132/6
amnesty [1] 5/16
amount [10] 2/24
15/5 15/9 18/8 27/13
39/10 63/24 78/9
78/10 146/15
amounts [2] 18/1
56/6
Anderson [3] 106/21
107/1 107/21
Andrew [3] 127/18
127/21 135/20
Angela [4] 138/20
139/3 141/7 141/19
anger [1] 73/6
angry [1] 9/10
angst [2] 4/8 92/23
announced [4] 5/16
8/1 8/9 98/1
announcement [8]
94/18 104/22 105/5
115/2 115/9 127/17
128/11 128/21
announcements [2]
59/2 128/10
announces [1] 74/14
announcing [1]
113/13
annoyance [1] 80/7
annoyed [2] 49/13
96/25
annoying [1] 72/23
annoys [1] 9/16
annual [3] 14/3 17/22
18/1
annum [1] 15/22
anomaly [1] 77/16
another [15] 12/23
25/18 29/24 32/11
32/24 38/5 44/7 53/8
69/8 80/25 81/21 90/9
95/6 95/7 108/18
answer [17] 11/19
27/23 28/3 48/24
50/15 52/1 57/11
70/14 80/6 85/7 101/1
111/11 145/8 146/6
148/12 156/23 157/16
answered [7] 42/22
102/10 102/10 102/11
110/13 124/14 146/3
answering [3] 71/20
151/2 151/3
answers [2] 11/10
11/14
anticipated [1] 39/5
anxious [1] 27/21
any [54] 3/9 3/15
5/12 5/21 18/20 20/15)
25/2 29/5 29/9 34/16
41/24 48/4 52/25 53/1
53/9 55/15 62/11 63/3)
63/14 65/11 71/13
72/15 73/16 73/20
73/22 74/2 79/5 84/10)
86/15 87/16 88/13
90/15 96/5 97/17
99/19 100/15 107/8
113/10 118/9 121/6
121/9 125/19 128/19
128/20 129/4 131/3
144/14 159/5 159/6
160/11 163/1 170/6
172/2 173/24
anybody [2] 142/3
158/1
anyone [3] 76/16
163/10 170/22
anything [12] 14/21
59/9 86/18 88/17 96/6)
98/14 99/23 128/15
140/19 145/14 160/7
17118
anyway [2] 2/14
32/17
apart [2] 39/22 65/17
apologies [5] 80/22
101/6 109/21 111/20
139/21
apologise [5] 75/17
166/21 166/21 166/21
167/5
apologising [1]
167/6
apology [3] 138/1
168/21 169/1
appalling [1] 113/24
apparent [4] 5/3 26/4
45/1 110/25
apparently [1] 49/18
appear [2] 84/2
167/17
appearance [1]
165/17
appeared [1] 86/22
appearing [1] 103/5
appears [3] 83/24
83/25 105/18
applause [2] 37/18
39/21
application [2] 69/21
70/5
applies [1] 100/1
appointed [2] 59/7
94/16
appreciate [1] 126/1
approach [8] 56/12
72/15 73/15 74/6
136/18 136/22 137/23)
139/1
approached [1]
136/8
appropriate [4] 54/8
91/2 107/9 129/25
approximately [3]
50/10 58/25 104/5
April [5] 8/1 83/19
135/19 139/9 140/14
are [153] 9/17 9/19
9/19 10/10 11/13
15/11 16/23 21/22
27/24 28/7 28/20 29/2I
29/4 29/14 29/25 30/7I
34/2 37/2 38/1 38/3
38/22 38/22 42/10
45/21 47/6 48/24
49/22 50/5 50/25 51/2)
55/8 55/17 56/3 56/4
56/5 56/9 56/21 56/22
56/25 57/1 57/6 57/12I
57/13 59/1 61/17 62/5I
63/23 65/17 65/22
66/21 66/23 68/9 68/9
68/10 72/10 73/18
75/18 76/5 77/8 77/25)
79/24 80/3 80/3 83/14
83/21 84/12 84/19
84/21 84/24 85/24
86/12 86/25 87/9
87/18 88/7 89/1 91/1
91/14 91/24 92/6
92/11 92/16 92/19
93/7 95/19 99/20
100/7 103/12 103/15
105/19 106/6 106/9
106/11 108/12 108/15
109/14 110/10 110/21
111/8 111/16 111/17
113/15 114/10 115/4
116/15 116/20 117/3
1417/6 118/3 118/14
120/9 120/16 121/10
121/12 127/14 130/8
130/24 131/5 131/9
131/10 132/18 132/24I
133/6 133/11 133/18
133/23 134/11 136/6
139/1 139/14 140/24
141/3 142/19 144/2
144/13 145/1 145/11
145/11 147/25 148/17)
149/10 149/15 152/10)
(47) ago... - areO
A
153/5 154/22 155/11
165/14 166/4 167/12
Area [6] 77/21
164/6 169/4
areas [1] 37/24
aren't [2] 80/2 80/5
argument [1] 41/20
arguments [2] 19/22
168/17
around [20] 29/16
43/14 43/19 52/23
64/4 64/9 68/25 79/3
88/4 88/8 121/25
122/1 142/21 142/25
148/6 150/15 166/3
arrangements [2]
15/16 17/9
arrive [1] 86/2
arrives [1] 97/14
article [7] 48/9 74/13
74/15 79/7 94/13
94/15 142/23
as [250]
as though [1] 92/19
ascertain [2] 91/22
91/24
ask [15] 1/17 11/14
26/24 27/11 27/18
37/13 55/15 56/12
56/24 58/13 110/12
136/2 138/15 149/3
168/10
asked [25] 11/18
26/24 33/8 37/24
45/21 50/24 55/14
56/16 56/24 73/19
84/16 84/21 98/16
105/17 109/15 111/10)
121/6 127/21 131/4
134/22 151/4 165/25
170/20 170/25 172/6
asking [18] 11/17
27/11 52/24 53/1
56/11 58/16 61/15
61/16 61/17 69/1 81/6
100/18 110/14 115/8
115/9 131/5 164/5
168/4
asks [2] 27/22 37/23
aspects [1] 22/12
asserting [2] 29/4
29/19
assets [1] 121/8
assist [6] 18/13 77/6
78/13 78/18 102/25
107/9
assist/advise [1]
are... [10] 153/3
155/12 155/12 158/15)
162/15 162/17 163/10}
argue [2] 21/22 70/17I
144/17 145/20 145/23)
107/9
assistance [3] 144/8
162/12 163/11
assistant [2] 46/17
70/3
23/8 37/20 38/10
119/24 120/8 146/19
assuming [1] 51/8
assurance [1] 53/6
assure [5] 50/8 76/7
99/22 145/2 170/14
at [200]
attach [1] 75/10
attached [4] 97/9
99/6 105/19 135/24
attaches [1] 88/11
attacking [1] 139/13
attempt [1] 125/20
attempted [1] 58/1
attend [1] 17/22
attendance [1] 91/14
attended [2] 162/14
163/3
attention [5] 74/13
75/12 90/6 110/4
111/11
attitude [1] 157/5
attractive [1] 25/11
audience [1] 97/16
audit [7] 4/4 6/7 6/21
72/9 137/15 152/14
154/9
audited [1] 83/22
auditors [7] 134/1
134/7 150/22 151/13
151/24 154/9 172/20
audits [2] 92/8 154/7
August [5] 84/5
87/25 125/7 127/7
143/9
August 2015 [1]
125/7
authorities [1] 22/2
authors [2] 116/11
116/12
auto [1] 121/1
automatic [3] 8/13
25/10 39/24
automatically [1]
90/11
available [1] 31/10
avoidance [1] 136/20
awarded [1] 58/24
Awards [1] 83/17
aware [33] 44/21
45/25 46/4 46/11
46/14 47/6 47/8 47/23
48/1 49/20 68/10 72/8)
73/20 73/22 82/11
89/18 95/11 95/13
95/16 99/20 107/3
112/16 118/8 119/7
126/10 126/20 134/16)
association [7] 22/12
137/19 150/2 1541/4
away [10] 12/9 35/25
98/9 100/25 102/8
102/16
back [41] 2/15 2/17
8/7 19/8 22/7 40/11
41/20 42/20 49/12
51/18 64/23 86/6
87/14 90/7 90/18
90/19 90/19 91/4
91/10 92/1 102/7
117/4 119/8 120/19
121/23 123/5 130/3
130/4 137/17 138/14
140/2 141/3 151/17
152/19 152/20 153/2
154/3 157/3 163/8
163/16 166/5
back-up [1] 87/14
backdoor [11] 49/18
49/25 50/17 51/5
65/16 66/20 67/5 67/6
67/8 72/22 89/10
backed [3] 37/21
48/15 94/20
background [9]
11/16 28/18 30/22
59/4 66/14 134/22
135/3 146/6 173/15
backing [1] 120/3
backside [1] 44/1
backup [1] 114/17
bad [7] 70/17 111/2
113/7 118/19 118/21
142/13 171/17
badge [4] 24/18
24/21 24/22 24/23
badgering [1] 31/22
bag [1] 172/23
Bajaj [1] 48/17
Baker [12] 43/1 63/5
122/18 126/25 126/25]
127/5 162/19 164/7
168/5 168/13 168/14
169/7
balance [13] 74/21
74/25 75/1 86/3 86/22}
87/22 88/20 129/3
129/12 129/16 129/22
134/3 152/21
balanced [2] 128/10
174/1
balances [1] 86/1
balancing [11] 67/10
67/12 68/3 74/19
75/23 77/11 77/20
110/1 118/9 152/23
158/22
Balls [1] 38/15
bandwagon [1]
157/13 157/18 158/14
45/4 63/5 64/16 97/24
118/14
bank [6] 8/14 47/18
74/22 81/5 95/5
169/13
banking [8] 5/1 8/2
10/14 11/4 11/6 11/8
81/1 148/13
bankrupt [4] 25/17
35/1 56/23 153/20
bankruptcies [1] 9/5
banks [2] 11/8 25/9
bargaining [4] 33/1
33/18 34/6 34/9
Barton [1] 23/17
based [6] 44/23 54/5
63/11 80/14 101/5
172/11
basic [1] 74/24
basically [19] 12/7
41/17 53/25 94/1 98/8)
98/12 98/14 101/3
101/4 101/6 102/15
108/5 131/10 133/15
142/3 145/14 147/15
153/19 160/4
basis [5] 17/7 23/20
106/23 123/14 172/20
bat [1] 23/9
Bates [10] 48/18 54/1
97/5 97/6 98/5 101/10
102/1 102/7 126/24
167/23
Bates’ [1] 101/2
batten [1] 141/24
battening [2] 140/24
142/15
BBC [8] 56/8 56/8
56/10 74/13 79/7
109/1 139/12 143/14
BBC News [1] 79/7
BBC's [1] 127/11
be [193]
Beal [3] 23/18 97/20
137/7
bear [1] 162/25
became [5] 2/4 2/8
15/1 62/25 71/19
because [132] 2/15
4/4 8/23 11/3 12/15
13/4 14/7 14/8 15/3
16/3 18/23 19/23
21/17 21/19 21/20
21/24 21/25 22/9 27/5
31/5 31/21 32/5 33/3
35/19 36/2 36/11
36/14 36/21 40/18
41/11 41/19 42/3
42/22 43/7 44/21 46/5
46/5 46/8 47/5 48/13
49/6 49/23 49/25 51/4)
52/18 52/21 53/18
54/3 60/10 62/7 63/3
64/6 64/19 67/20
69/20 70/5 70/8 71/17
71/20 73/2 73/8 73/20
74/125 78/12 78/13
80/7 80/20 81/10 83/3}
84/4 86/7 86/11 86/12
90/13 90/15 90/16
92/5 93/2 96/1 96/3
96/12 96/20 97/2
99/19 108/3 110/5
115/23 116/24 119/4
120/23 121/2 121/24
121/25 122/16 122/20)
123/1 123/22 123/24
124/15 127/5 128/12
129/11 129/14 131/22)
132/2 132/23 140/4
140/5 142/6 147/1
147/5 147/23 151/20
152/7 153/18 154/17
157/9 158/14 159/1
159/20 164/21 164/25]
165/13 165/17 166/1
166/11 166/22 167/1
167/2 169/9 172/15
173/12
become [6] 9/21 23/7)
27/8 71/16 71/16
152/16
becomes [2] 86/23
135/16
becoming [5] 11/7
31/6 39/6 84/12 147/6
bed [1] 149/16
been [174] 4/16 6/8
7/17 8/22 9/1 9/12
10/21 10/24 10/25
10/25 13/3 15/17
18/17 18/19 19/21
21/18 22/6 22/10
25/11 35/21 36/3
36/10 37/15 39/4
40/15 44/11 45/7
45/13 45/15 45/24
47/6 47/18 49/25
50/11 50/21 52/9
54/24 55/3 55/14
56/24 57/25 58/10
59/1 59/23 60/4 61/4
61/9 63/5 64/4 64/5
64/9 64/18 64/25 65/3
68/6 68/8 69/2 69/2
69/11 69/16 70/8
70/22 72/1 72/4 73/3
73/4 73/7 73/10 73/24
73/25 74/16 74/22
78/2 80/21 81/17
82/18 83/17 87/10
87/11 88/9 90/21
91/17 92/5 92/10
92/12 95/1 95/7 95/15}
96/4 96/5 96/8 96/8
96/9 96/13 96/17
96/18 96/23 100/15
100/20 101/3 103/10
103/13 105/2 106/4
(48) are... -beenO
B
been... [70] 106/7
108/25 110/14 112/9
112/13 114/11 114/23)
115/1 115/20 116/4
116/5 116/19 116/21
118/5 119/20 119/21
121/24 121/25 122/1
122/9 123/24 124/18
124/19 129/11 129/12)
129/13 129/15 131/19}
131/23 131/25 132/12)
132/25 132/25 133/1
133/2 133/3 133/4
133/10 134/13 135/14}
141/20 142/10 142/20)
144/11 144/17 144/24)
148/11 148/14 149/14)
152/17 154/14 155/22)
155/24 155/24 157/9
160/17 162/15 162/20)
162/25 164/21 165/25)
166/12 169/13 170/17)
171/23 172/24 173/4
before [37] 2/14 25/2
59/7 64/21 64/22
70/14 71/1 82/19
87/23 91/16 123/11
125/4 127/4 129/6
130/3 131/20 134/13
138/1 141/9 145/12
147/24 148/8 150/17
150/18 154/23 167/6
168/6 169/15 169/22
169/23 172/3 172/5
173/17
began [2] 87/25
129/23
beginning [3] 20/20
36/9 41/2
begins [3] 33/24 47/1
48/9
behalf [12] 23/17
38/17 105/14 117/1
124/6 131/8 138/2
144/9 144/24 145/1
145/23 161/5
behaviour [2] 49/16
138/5
behind [3] 8/11 71/17
80/9
being [66] 4/24 8/4
8/24 8/25 9/12 12/3
21/24 22/5 23/3 23/3
32/8 32/10 34/9 41/4
43/18 45/21 47/4
47/24 49/8 56/5 56/5
56/21 56/22 56/22
62/8 65/15 70/22
73/18 73/21 75/2
75/19 82/11 82/14
170/20 170/25 171/16)
32/3 41/14 42/22 49/7
84/21 85/8 94/15 99/1
101/14 103/20 105/5
106/24 109/15 109/24)
111/25 113/14 113/16)
114/2 118/7 119/14
120/21 121/3 123/11
123/14 123/22 124/20)
131/13 133/16 141/3
156/15 157/22 162/8
162/12 163/7 165/17
166/15 173/10
belief [5] 1/23 47/19
55/2 55/20 94/2
believe [29] 4/21
10/15 12/13 14/23
30/9 35/16 36/17 39/8)
59/21 72/16 73/17
76/11 76/13 95/1
97/11 99/3 107/21
124/9 126/21 127/24
129/1 131/6 132/16
145/3 145/21 147/10
147/12 166/22 169/18)
believed [19] 3/13
6/11 6/12 6/25 10/12
30/23 53/20 59/25
66/4 66/15 67/18
90/24 118/11 120/2
120/14 121/7 124/15
145/17 146/4
believes [1] 120/16
bell [1] 79/6
belligerence [1]
161/14
belligerent [2] 161/4
161/8
below [12] 47/2
53/11 54/23 75/10
85/22 103/3 105/21
128/7 140/18
belts [1] 71/8
beneficial [1] 104/19
benefit [8] 6/2 8/9
17/24 90/10 97/12
99/3 106/25 124/15
benefits [5] 7/25 8/21
8/25 25/10 153/12
best [14] 1/22 23/22
38/4 38/13 38/18
39/15 39/16 79/1
83/15 86/12 140/25
163/6 165/9 168/24
betrayed [1] 160/9
better [12] 7/17
20/16 34/23 111/4
111/6 137/14 142/11
147/1 147/2 148/9
174/1 174/1
between [14] 2/23
5/25 8/23 19/19 28/8
28/11 30/16 37/5
88/15 103/24 128/24
138/16 148/4 150/13
109/13 119/17 125/25)
45/7 45/23 130/7
Bhavna [1] 121/5
big [17] 20/9 22/13
26/5 31/9 33/6 46/7
49/2 49/4 49/5 51/9
54/5 68/6 118/21
148/11 159/22 169/9
169/14
bigger [4] 40/4 73/1
81/9 81/10
biggest [4] 14/12
25/22 34/6 168/15
billion [4] 8/2 10/14
81/1 148/13
billions [21] 3/17
146/17 148/1 148/2
150/11 170/3 170/4
170/7 173/21
bills [1] 165/3
Billy [4] 33/4
binding [1] 29/16
BIS [2] 62/5 66/23
Bishop [5] 83/7
85/10 87/19 88/11
89/3
bit [17] 19/23 26/1
32/18 45/1 53/12
70/16 71/8 98/16
101/18 110/4 134/22
145/12 147/12 147/13}
156/23 161/9 162/8
ing [1] 154/15
bizarre [1] 123/15
black [1] 156/23
BLAKE [5] 1/8 27/22
130/5 174/10 175/4
Blake's [1] 27/24
blame [9] 60/17 82/2
82/14 118/17 122/23
132/18 133/17 158/1
166/20
blamed [5] 5/12
119/14 159/8 159/11
159/12
blames [1] 156/5
blaming [2] 118/14
119/2
blank [3] 44/20 46/5
46/8
blighted [1] 83/17
blind [4] 116/25
blindingly [1] 5/3
blood [1] 24/25
Bloor [2] 22/15
121/19
Board [8] 51/6 51/7
51/8 53/7 62/4 65/22
66/23 116/7
body [2] 38/1 51/1
beyond [5] 5/21 29/9
bill [2] 152/17 152/17
3/17 6/1 6/1 6/18 6/19
7/24 60/16 63/21 96/7
115/15 115/16 119/16
Bogerd [3] 138/20
139/4 1441/7
borrow [1] 151/25
25/1 40/20 40/21
54/25 55/18 60/21
62/25 108/25 115/23
119/2 124/24 125/20
144/25 151/1 158/19
bother [2] 102/18
113/24
bottom [26] 3/20
3/21 4/20 43/4 46/25
69/23 74/11 75/24
78/19 79/11 81/20
83/6 85/17 97/5
120/17 121/5 125/11
140/13 144/8 146/7
bought [1] 173/3
brackets [1] 30/3
Bracknell [1] 91/22
Bradbrook [3]
161/21 162/14 163/3
Bradbrook's [1]
165/15
branch [23] 2/4
57/5 71/24 83/16
86/10 111/15 119/9
134/8 134/18 143/5
169/5 172/16
branches [13] 11/6
68/2 88/24 90/25
127/10
brand [10] 7/5 64/7
74/1 94/5 109/20
111/21 142/7 146/18
152/8 168/24
breach [1] 31/16
break [10] 30/11
32/20 34/21 54/9
127/5 130/1
Bridgen [3] 127/18
127/21 128/8
brief [2] 29/24 103/3
briefing [1] 28/10
briefly [3] 23/18
68/19 138/16
bring [5] 2/17 38/19
75/11 97/1 128/6
bringing [3] 11/4
50/5 97/1
brings [3] 4/8 25/19
174/7
Britain [1] 21/21
British [3] 77/4
135/14 135/14
both [17] 18/23 24/17I
106/19 108/23 110/15)
132/11 135/19 138/22}
15/11 15/12 23/3 37/6}
83/16 83/22 84/3 84/4
143/10 143/11 158/12)
15/12 36/13 40/5 40/6)
43/22 44/1 46/4 67/12
54/14 70/20 91/3 91/7,
broad [1] 60/6
broaden [1] 84/22
broadly [1] 109/7
broken [2] 12/9
98/14
brought [6] 51/13
81/24 111/10 142/5
142/6 142/8
Brown [1] 48/17
BS [1] 129/2
BSC [1] 143/13
budget [1] 8/11
bug [4] 68/2 68/16
88/25 159/8
bugs [23] 49/19 67/1
67/7 67/9 67/9 68/8
72/21 88/24 89/1
89/10 93/10 111/10
111/14 111/15 114/6
123/19 123/22 124/17
124/20 132/23 158/10)
158/21 159/3
building [2] 22/20
156/10
bullet [12] 30/7 32/19)
47/1 47/16 58/16
61/20 62/13 92/18
93/1 120/17 121/5
135/5
bullshit [1] 125/9
burden [1] 55/12
Burke [1] 118/5
burns [1] 70/19
busier [1] 88/2
business [15] 6/7
10/2 10/11 10/18 16/7)
16/13 25/22 29/16
33/12 51/7 60/1
109/19 131/3 151/23
172/18
businessperson [1]
12/19
busted [1] 31/6
busy [1] 90/2
but [217]
buying [1] 8/19
c
cabinet [3] 135/9
135/14 135/15
calculation [1] 49/7
calculations [1]
50/11
call [10] 23/23 47/4
68/25 79/13 89/12
122/6 122/10 137/8
137/14 160/3
called [12] 17/16
37/5 69/15 74/12
81/21 92/3 93/4 112/6I
112/14 155/7 161/8
161/20
calling [1] 144/7
calls [4] 48/14
(49) been... - callsO
Cc
calls... [3] 118/25
126/7 126/17
Calum [9] 143/9
145/10 145/11 145/19
145/22 146/4 146/10
147/5 147/8
Camden [1] 33/25
came [15] 4/14 7/25
8/10 16/4 22/9 22/13
48/5 49/7 70/21 70/25)
78/7 111/19 129/23
134/1 170/10
campaigning [1]
128/9
can [119] 1/3 1/9
1/20 3/1 4/10 8/7
11/23 12/2 12/5 18/13}
20/14 20/21 23/14
30/3 30/22 32/2 32/5
33/21 35/3 37/2 43/1
43/3 44/8 46/21 46/23)
50/7 51/16 54/16 55/6
56/19 57/8 57/13
58/11 61/4 69/22
70/17 71/22 71/23
74/9 76/6 77/8 77/15
78/13 78/19 78/20
78/21 81/19 82/20
84/23 85/6 85/17
86/16 88/16 90/7 91/3
91/10 91/13 91/13
91/15 91/23 93/10
94/17 96/21 97/4
99/12 99/22 101/18
101/19 104/2 104/10
108/21 110/15 110/19
112/5 114/19 115/5
115/10 115/12 115/12)
124/1 125/3 125/5
130/20 130/23 135/18
137/18 138/14 139/9
141/10 142/16 143/8
143/17 145/2 145/8
1447/1 147/7 147/7
148/23 149/6 149/8
151/2 152/7 152/25
155/3 155/3 155/8
156/6 156/11 156/15
157/3 158/5 158/6
165/5 165/7 165/10
165/12 165/19 168/13
170/14
can't [26] 14/7 16/20
35/18 45/3 45/17 65/9
70/20 71/15 77/3
78/11 78/16 79/5
79/12 87/4 88/13
89/12 104/16 117/12
130/7 138/10 139/8
149/1 149/2 149/4
166/1 171/25
cannae [2] 148/12
172/16
cannot [9] 34/24
65/17 69/20 70/5 81/8)
84/10 86/17 88/16
100/11
capability [1] 158/22
car [1] 141/22
card [2] 8/9 77/12
cards [1] 47/3
care [1] 57/14
careful [6] 30/9 59/19}
111/8 115/25 133/1
137/4
carpet [1] 55/23
carried [7] 5/4 19/24
63/15 76/5 85/8 99/1
128/8
carries [1] 94/22
carry [2] 3/6 63/14
carrying [4] 3/16
6/18 84/13 155/22
case [39] 3/23 12/14
12/15 14/14 45/16
46/2 46/3 48/10 51/13
51/16 51/19 51/21
52/6 54/17 54/19
57/25 58/14 58/23
59/4 60/21 60/24
61/21 66/5 66/13
66/25 71/2 71/5 81/7
85/2 86/15 88/21 89/9
106/24 117/9 122/20
129/24 132/8 133/2
152/13
cases [28] 50/23
50/24 58/6 58/18 65/5)
65/8 65/11 66/3 66/6
66/8 67/11 67/12 72/9
72/16 73/16 83/10
92/7 92/11 113/8
126/22 128/2 132/24
133/4 144/14 146/2
150/20 154/21 167/24)
cash [17] 77/12 82/7
83/21 86/21 132/19
133/18 133/22 133/23}
134/2 134/4 134/19
134/20 150/10 150/15)
151/15 151/20 154/23}
cast [1] 144/2
Castleton [28] 3/25
4/12 4/14 48/10 53/21
54/17 54/20 54/24
55/2 55/10 57/20
57/24 57/25 58/12
58/14 58/22 59/6
60/20 61/4 61/16
64/23 68/20 69/20
70/2 70/13 70/21 71/1
167/23
Castleton's [3] 3/23
48/10 61/14
catastrophic [1]
125/21
catch [1] 161/25
categorically [2]
121/21 144/10
category [1] 83/16
caught [1] 94/4
cause [4] 56/15 88/5
88/9 158/22
caused [4] 47/20
47/20 63/25 76/23
causing [1] 89/2
cent [12] 10/4 49/2
49/6 49/8 50/10 50/14
50/20 138/10 138/12
141/12 142/14 173/23
centrally [1] 77/16
CEO [2] 28/10 131/9
certain [4] 43/22
112/16 142/14 142/14
certainly [16] 1/24
12/5 13/3 17/2 22/23
46/4 46/6 48/7 49/11
67/15 67/24 72/1
78/11 91/5 128/20
130/5
Certification [14]
12/1 12/2 12/4 12/6
12/12 12/20 13/2
20/21 20/23 21/17
23/9 119/25 120/4
120/5
cetera [3] 13/12
39/20 100/2
chain [3] 85/16 86/7
86/7
Chair [1] 110/8
chairmans [1] 15/12
challenges [1] 52/25
challenging [1] 92/6
chance [1] 100/17
change [18] 4/10
24/13 25/18 42/2
63/13 67/3 116/9
122/25 130/25 145/14
145/15 147/7 147/9
150/6 152/11 163/20
167/7 167/11
changed [12] 15/3
67/13 112/4 122/2
147/15 148/10 149/25
160/11 167/11 169/8
169/9 169/19
changes [1] 29/3
changing [5] 33/9
113/13 150/25 151/11
151/14
charging [1] 24/14
charitable [1] 84/23
chasers [2] 131/10
132/6
chasing [1] 107/18
cheap [1] 145/11
check [7] 19/24 20/5
21/21 21/25 22/24
22/25 24/13
checked [2] 88/7
133/25
checking [1] 74/21
cheque [1] 77/12
cheques [2] 84/10
106/25
Chesterfield [1]
64/15
Chief [8] 53/6 62/3
79/25 114/15 115/2
116/7 130/24 147/6
Child [2] 90/9 90/10
chip [8] 33/1 33/18
34/6 34/9 43/23 44/4
44/20 46/6
choice [1] 126/11
chosen [2] 72/14
73/15
Chris [1] 112/14
Christmas [1] 97/8
chronologically [4]
11/24 42/7 42/17
106/19
chunk [3] 49/3 49/4
49/5
chunks [1] 159/22
chunky [1] 46/7
circling [1] 107/18
circular [1] 71/24
circulated [3] 44/12
105/20 119/20
circumstances [14]
4/11 30/17 52/2 60/23)
61/2 61/21 63/12
67/16 68/14 80/1 80/3
88/19 152/11 165/8
claim [6] 5/5 70/20
76/8 142/4 142/5
158/7
claimants [2] 134/10
136/14
claimed [4] 3/8 63/25
72/10 146/16
claiming [4] 3/18
126/23 134/6 173/22
claims [6] 5/21 56/2
69/21 111/5 142/8
170/8
Clarified [1] 59/18
clarifies [1] 30/10
class [2] 81/24 82/11
classified [1] 12/16
clause [4] 30/11
31/13 32/21 34/21
clean [3] 163/12
163/24 164/8
clear [11] 29/8 39/6
39/6 60/22 103/10
106/4 111/3 122/21
137/10 141/17 162/22,
clearing [1] 90/4
clearly [7] 56/15 78/1
84/7 85/12 96/3 149/7
173/9
clerk [1] 14/19
clerks [1] 60/15
clients [3] 3/5 149/14
162/10
close [11] 8/7 9/21
10/20 11/18 75/7 97/8)
140/7 142/6 145/19
148/4 174/7
closed [4] 8/24 35/19
46/5 121/3
closely [12] 9/24
18/22 18/25 104/18
109/20 111/18 138/1
139/21 139/23 140/12)
143/5 168/20
closer [4] 34/2 34/2
34/4 128/12
closing [1] 11/8
closure [1] 160/2
clue [1] 42/15
Cobb [1] 102/23
Cockburn [2] 37/6
39/12
cognisance [1]
173/13
coin [1] 88/6
coincidence [2]
148/3 148/5
Colin [6] 43/1 162/19
162/20 164/7 169/7
169/9
collapsed [1] 169/11
collateral [2] 153/6
153/21
colleague [2] 46/18
127/18
colleagues [1]
116/15
collective [3] 135/9
135/13 135/15
column [1] 56/7
combination [1]
67/14
come [29] 15/15
31/25 38/8 42/3 42/15
53/21 76/13 88/19
90/18 90/19 90/19
91/4 117/4 122/23
129/10 130/3 130/4
133/19 143/7 145/10
153/2 157/3 163/12
164/8 166/4 166/20
167/2 167/5 171/23
comeback [2] 84/18
99/19
comes [6] 38/15
41/20 49/12 86/19
108/3 163/24
comfortable [1]
126/16
coming [10] 40/22
46/7 82/22 106/14
108/18 118/22 142/22)
145/22 151/13 158/6
(50) calls... - comingO
Cc
comment [5] 18/10
56/17 71/15 79/15
109/15
comments [4]
102/14 144/23 145/1
173/11
commercial [5]
15/16 17/7 17/9 18/15}
106/20
commission [6]
15/18 15/22 15/23
16/3 16/16 16/22
commissioned [3]
83/8 100/20 102/5
Committee [13]
37/14 39/14 91/20
91/21 92/1 92/2
112/15 113/17 117/19
118/4 141/8 141/14
141/17
committees [1]
141/21
common [6] 91/1
114/23 138/3 138/5
140/12 168/25
communicate [2]
113/10 113/18
communication [3]
12/10 70/2 117/10
communications [6]
110/16 116/12 138/17)
140/3 146/12 148/5
community [4] 4/9
17/19 64/8 152/9
company [20] 19/5
41/22 51/1 53/7 62/2
65/13 65/17 72/19
73/1 84/23 107/21
125/21 138/4 140/11
140/12 146/24 153/15
153/19 159/10 168/23}
compare [1] 63/20
comparison [1]
146/17
compensation [7]
25/15 31/8 89/17
122/4 134/15 159/22
163/22
competent [1] 89/13
competing [1] 16/8
complained [3] 6/5
23/10 90/22
complaining [3]
46/14 75/22 80/3
complaint [11] 13/16
68/21 68/24 76/24
78/5 78/19 79/24
81/21 95/6 95/7 98/20
complaints [19] 6/20
13/25 47/11 47/23
48/3 48/5 50/19 60/12)
76/10 76/20 80/12
82/21 82/23 85/12
89/15 126/13 126/15
133/14 167/22
complete [4] 84/1
86/19 94/21 116/24
completely [2] 3/24
116/19
completion [1] 34/4
compliant [1] 32/12
complicated [1]
86/11
complicity [1] 113/12)
comprehension [2]
45/7 45/23
compulsion [1]
29/21
compute [1] 124/10
computer [16] 45/11
45/14 48/8 51/4 66/15
67/18 68/4 68/11
74/19 76/4 89/5 107/6'
123/9 124/12 144/5
144/5
computerisation [2]
64/21 64/22
computerised [1]
98/17
concede [2] 35/17
103/16
conceded [1] 86/1
concedes [1] 106/10
concern [9] 7/12
33/14 33/17 56/18
77/19 85/23 88/5
98/11 168/15
concerned [11]
45/10 62/22 84/24
96/4 98/5 101/2
104/20 110/4 142/2
155/9 168/14
concerns [16] 13/22
32/10 44/13 44/16
45/21 48/21 83/12
90/20 92/19 95/4
100/14 100/15 112/22)
118/21 121/12 153/17,
conclude [1] 126/11
concluded [1] 117/25]
conclusion [8] 42/16
76/14 96/22 114/1
114/2 128/6 133/19
142/9
conditions [2] 31/5
70/22
conducted [2] 92/16
93/7
conference [17]
17/20 17/22 17/25
18/1 18/6 23/23 26/10
26/10 35/13 36/22
36/24 37/2 37/9 38/16)
39/1 160/24 161/2
confidence [8] 94/21
103/14 106/8 114/12
132/13 136/13 139/2
139/5
confident [5] 77/8
86/15 95/19 109/8
120/21
confirm [2] 1/20
137/18
confirmed [1] 137/9
consent [1] 136/3
consequences [2]
172/7 172/8
Conservative [1]
38/14
consider [2] 88/15
128/4
considerable [2]
62/15 85/23
considerably [1]
124/3
consideration [1]
30/9
considered [2] 20/23
110/9
considering [2]
109/1 109/14
consistent [3] 111/5
118/7 125/8
Consolidation [2]
13/24 21/6
constant [1] 74/21
consulted [3] 92/12
92/22 92/23
contact [7] 51/25
75/16 87/18 97/18
110/21 110/25 136/23}
contacted [6] 61/3
75/5 78/25 92/8
106/20 108/25
contacting [1] 145/5
contentious [1]
79/22
contents [1] 170/16
continue [7] 35/11
85/22 94/21 103/14
103/19 106/8 114/12
continued [1] 151/6
continues [2] 76/11
85/16
contract [14] 10/11
16/1 24/4 24/19 81/16
131/12 131/16 131/17
131/22 131/24 151/21
153/22 153/23 157/4
contractors [1] 100/2
contracts [5] 60/2
92/10 104/17 122/2
131/20
contractual [1] 57/7
contractually [1]
160/6
contrary [1] 47/19
control [2] 136/21
137/20
controlled [1] 113/16
convened [1] 36/24
convenience [2] 26/5]
37/21
convenient [1]
139/18
conversation [5]
21/15 21/16 137/17
137/22 139/3
conversations [2]
39/3 75/3
convicted [3] 74/16
128/13 128/18
convictions [2] 5/15
117/2
convince [1] 34/19
cope [1] 114/18
copied [1] 107/16
copy [1] 112/24
copying [1] 112/22
cores [1] 79/19
corner [1] 48/15
correct [27] 1/15
1/16 2/3 2/5 2/7 17/2
17/3 21/14 21/15 27/6}
27/7 30/21 37/1 37/12
37/20 40/1 43/9 52/19}
52/22 111/25 135/17
139/8 151/20 162/18
162/24 174/9 174/11
corrected [1] 87/11
correctly [4] 74/19
86/14 86/22 109/25
corresponded [1]
55/1
correspondence [4]
13/21 65/2 70/11
85/21
cost [2] 20/2 23/1
costs [4] 19/8 58/24
132/10 166/25
cottage [1] 111/9
could [83] 1/17 3/11
9/13 11/13 13/6 14/1
17/14 18/20 20/3
20/18 21/12 21/22
30/18 31/15 32/11
32/12 33/19 35/16
36/2 36/10 36/22
40/14 42/18 45/15
46/3 46/16 49/23 52/3
52/3 54/12 58/6 61/21
62/8 66/15 67/14
67/20 67/22 69/1
69/10 71/20 81/20
82/20 86/8 89/23
94/10 94/12 97/12
98/20 104/20 105/12
106/18 113/11 118/3
118/19 118/22 121/6
122/14 123/9 127/6
130/3 130/3 131/2
133/9 138/12 146/15
147/21 150/17 150/20}
150/25 152/20 158/1
158/2 160/1 162/8
163/21 165/21 165/22)
166/16 167/11 168/9
168/24 169/19 173/2
could've [1] 67/23
couldn't [16] 14/25
31/6 31/25 43/24 44/1
44/21 98/14 104/25
105/6 128/10 133/21
153/15 159/10 159/17)
165/2 165/2
council [29] 2/8
15/11 37/25 38/1
42/23 42/25 43/8
43/17 44/16 54/19
55/5 55/8 58/7 60/25
62/24 71/10 91/13
112/23 113/9 130/22
135/8 144/25 145/2
145/3 145/18 161/1
169/4 169/6 169/7
councillors [1] 26/2
counters [1] 65/18
countless [1] 148/8
country [3] 43/15
43/19 94/24
couple [7] 6/6 29/13
46/3 62/18 141/16
155/10 167/20
course [24] 7/10 7/16)
21/23 46/13 56/7
56/14 62/14 63/23
64/14 68/15 103/21
105/11 129/14 136/1
139/16 144/6 150/5
150/17 158/6 169/20
169/21 170/21 171/7
174/16
court [16] 49/17
51/11 58/6 58/18
58/22 58/24 62/12
64/24 92/10 93/19
107/24 123/7 123/13
131/8 147/19 171/19
courts [1] 128/15
cover [5] 14/21 23/4
165/16 166/11 171/9
coverage [5] 7/14
56/10 72/5 72/7 97/15
covered [1] 4/22
covering [2] 15/10
67/19
covers [1] 99/25
crafting [1] 30/10
crash [1] 141/22
crazy [1] 123/12
create [1] 59/20
created [7] 88/24
100/15 107/13 107/19)
107/25 107/25 108/5
creating [1] 35/19
credit [2] 8/13 25/10
criminal [3] 56/22
132/24 144/4
(61) comment - criminalO
Cc
crisis [1] 64/13
critical [1] 129/11
Critically [4] 29/4
criticise [1] 160/8
criticised [4] 63/6
63/7 63/9 71/5
criticising [1] 160/18
criticism [1] 53/23
criticisms [2] 20/15
61/11
crossed’ [1] 86/23
Crown [3] 49/4
120/15 172/19
crying [1] 115/25
currency [1] 84/9
current [6] 28/16
29/10 30/23 60/21
61/17 100/7
current/emerging [1]
28/16
currently [5] 14/3
79/12 120/9 144/13
146/1
customer [3] 44/24
84/9 90/5
customers [6] 45/3
47/4 59/25 90/17
90/19 118/19
cutting [2] 19/8 140/2
CWU [42] 20/4 20/4
20/6 20/10 23/12
32/23 32/25 33/10
33/13 33/14 34/6 34/8
34/23 36/2 36/3 37/11
37/16 38/9 38/12
38/19 39/3 39/7 39/11
39/18 40/9 51/9 53/8
62/11 62/13 65/20
120/3 120/14 127/7
128/12 128/13 128/14
128/24 145/20 145/23}
146/5 158/4 160/5
Cwu00000011 [1]
35/3
CWu00000013 [1]
127/16
D
damage [1] 153/21
damaged [1] 7/5
damaging [1] 142/6
dance [1] 125/2
danger [2] 103/5
119/15
date [6] 55/14 102/3
102/14 117/3 120/1
120/20
dated [1] 1/15
dates [2] 17/3 155/8
Dave [1] 33/5
David [5] 69/15 140/1
140/3 140/5 146/8
Davies [14] 104/4
105/9 110/16 125/12
125/12 125/23 138/20)
138/23 139/9 139/18
139/20 141/1 142/18
146/9
Davis [1] 70/2
day [19] 4/24 5/13
19/11 37/14 40/24
45/13 45/13 45/16
74/20 78/1 81/15 88/1
88/3 89/16 104/5
105/14 112/6 122/11
147/21
days [5] 78/25
111/13 129/20 133/7
141/16
dead [2] 43/23 43/24
deal [19] 30/12 31/22
32/11 34/20 34/23
38/9 40/7 41/25 55/14)
70/7 70/10 81/13
136/1 160/4 160/6
160/6 160/12 160/16
160/20
dealing [13] 7/24
18/15 47/9 48/3 60/10
68/9 100/9 110/10
119/15 121/11 139/14)
139/25 148/1
dealings [1] 114/5
dealt [9] 23/19 48/4
55/22 56/5 61/10 78/7
78/8 78/11 89/14
Dear [7] 23/22 54/22
76/2 85/19 97/7
105/16 127/8
debacle [3] 107/14
108/9 108/16
debating [1] 71/10
December [5] 17/10
28/11 29/23 83/18
97/6
decent [5] 19/6 40/22
127/25 134/11 152/10)
decide [3] 12/7 55/25
131/15
decided [5] 23/7 32/4
32/13 38/17 38/25
decision [13] 73/5
73/11 74/8 79/22 80/7
80/9 80/21 80/22 97/1
109/4 135/13 135/15
136/19
decisions [1] 74/2
declaration [3] 134/4
134/20 151/16
declarations [5]
132/19 133/19 133/22)
133/23 134/19
declined [1] 69/25
declining [1] 34/25
decreasing [1] 27/1
decrying [1] 141/19
deducted [1] 163/16
defects [4] 111/14
158/10 158/21 159/4
defend [1] 116/14
defended [2] 92/14
93/6
defending [2] 93/8
115/23
deficits [1] 48/15
defined [1] 29/10
definite [2] 58/19
104/25
definition [1] 21/4
definitive [2] 45/17
45/17
degree [1] 67/19
delays [1] 97/8
delist [1] 120/5
delisted [2] 12/20
120/21
demanding [1]
125/19
demeanour [1]
101/13
demonstrated [1]
161/3
den [3] 138/20 139/3
141/7
denied [4] 3/10 9/11
9/13 49/22
Department [3] 51/6
62/4 62/5
depend [1] 165/8
dependency [1]
29/20
dependent [1] 41/7
depending [2]
150/24 163/14
depends [1] 81/8
depth [4] 65/5 65/8
65/11 65/12
Desai [1] 121/5
describe [1] 168/3
describing [1]
101/22
description [1]
149/18
desperate [2] 131/10
165/23
desperately [1] 60/2
despite [1] 157/22
destiny [1] 113/16
destroyed [1] 116/5
detail [9] 35/12 82/24
82/25 88/23 89/3
107/6 109/6 134/24
141/11
detailed [2] 29/5
126/15
details [5] 87/18
111/1 139/15 160/20
160/22
detections [1] 91/24
determined [1] 21/3
deterrent [6] 151/24
151/25 153/14 154/5
154/5 154/9
deterring [1] 156/25
development [4]
11/25 28/19 29/6 29/9}
developments [1]
143/25
did [104] 2/12 8/2
12/13 12/21 14/21
14/23 17/2 19/3 22/9
22/23 25/12 30/19
39/2 46/20 50/24
51/19 51/23 52/25
54/3 60/20 61/1 61/11
61/20 63/13 64/14
64/17 65/1 65/8 65/11
66/8 68/11 68/11
70/25 71/4 71/11
74/25 75/11 78/5
78/13 84/6 89/8 90/20)
95/10 98/12 98/15
105/9 105/11 113/24
118/9 121/16 121/16
122/25 123/4 124/11
128/14 128/16 128/22)
130/24 131/1 132/6
132/21 133/17 133/19}
137/25 138/6 138/11
139/18 146/8 147/4
149/17 150/6 150/7
150/8 151/9 152/14
156/16 156/19 156/20}
156/24 156/24 157/2
157/3 157/23 158/11
159/21 160/11 160/13}
160/16 160/22 161/25
161/25 162/6 162/6
164/1 164/2 164/9
164/11 164/11 164/25)
168/1 168/25 169/23
172/13 172/23
didn't [47] 14/22 19/6
24/21 24/22 26/24
27/11 27/18 40/16
48/14 50/15 51/14
52/2 52/7 53/13 54/4
61/7 66/19 70/10
71/16 72/21 90/13
96/20 109/22 109/23
109/25 115/20 117/10}
125/13 133/24 142/2
145/14 145/16 148/9
153/11 153/14 156/24}
160/9 164/5 164/13
164/24 166/2 167/3
167/8 167/10 169/10
170/1 173/3
die [1] 150/16
difference [5] 8/23
32/2 124/25 128/24
150/13
different [5] 22/13
50/18 51/21 95/17
96/17
difficult [4] 57/4 57/8
145/11 165/20
difficulties [1] 57/7
difficulty [5] 33/3
39/9 45/5 105/19
163/1
dinner [2] 18/1 18/7
direct [6] 46/16 87/18)
136/20 136/24 145/22)
170/20
direction [3] 71/18
72/25 108/18
directions [1] 160/14
directly [4] 10/10
24/15 49/4 137/20
director [7] 22/15
51/6 62/4 65/21
110/16 121/19 146/12)
directors [2] 19/10
116/7
disaffected [1] 120/2
disagree [10] 3/25
22/3 26/22 27/15
98/10 101/9 101/17
102/13 102/17 122/16)
disagreed [4] 3/24
98/7 98/15 102/12
disagreements [1]
101/10
disappear [2] 166/1
166/2
disappointed [3]
79/19 80/18 80/20
disclose [1] 137/15
discovered [1] 6/9
discrepancies [9]
4/9 6/8 81/5 85/25
88/5 88/25 89/2 95/6
123/20
discrepancy [1] 87/1
discuss [4] 28/9
28/16 30/5 137/25
discussed [4] 36/9
43/11 119/17 138/25
discussion [5] 30/16
31/17 43/13 55/4
62/15
discussions [6] 29/6
31/1 61/3 118/3
121/15 148/10
disgrace [1] 128/3
disgraced [1] 165/14
dishonest [1] 90/15
dismiss [3] 10/7
90/20 98/3
disprove [3] 65/19
65/21 66/21
dispute [5] 34/10
34/10 134/12 158/22
161/8
disputes [2] 72/6
83/11
disputing [1] 158/24
(62) crisis - disputingO
D
disregarded [1]
116/19
dissolved [1] 121/8
diversion [1] 29/1
do [114] 1/13 6/13
7/20 8/14 9/7 9/21
10/13 12/10 13/13
15/4 16/14 16/14
19/18 20/3 20/10
23/11 26/22 27/15
28/12 29/8 32/12
32/12 38/19 38/20
41/5 41/10 42/12
42/13 43/2 43/16
44/17 50/25 51/11
51/15 51/23 53/10
54/7 55/11 57/14 58/8
58/17 60/1 61/1 61/8
62/22 65/12 65/19
66/16 68/11 68/17
70/11 74/24 77/16
77/23 79/5 82/21 87/3
89/8 90/3 96/5 97/17
100/17 103/20 104/15)
107/8 109/9 111/11
115/1 116/16 117/11
121/13 122/22 124/14}
128/19 132/5 132/16
133/7 133/15 133/21
134/3 136/18 136/25
137/22 139/3 141/20
145/8 145/25 149/17
150/6 150/11 151/10
152/20 154/12 155/18}
156/12 156/12 156/14}
158/9 158/12 158/16
158/22 160/4 160/7
160/15 161/7 161/13
161/20 164/2 164/12
164/13 165/18 167/8
168/11 169/22
dockets [1] 64/16
docudrama [1] 7/13
document [14] 7/8
7/10 13/8 13/8 32/24
33/19 33/20 33/23
59/12 99/17 125/4
127/4 155/3 155/4
documentary [2]
129/4 173/15
documentation [2]
100/5 100/10
documents [5] 58/4
58/17 62/14 110/12
128/20
does [16] 21/4 27/9
65/20 71/14 90/6
100/8 101/11 103/16
112/11 114/17 123/23
124/20 124/22 124/25}
131/17 144/18
doesn't [13] 12/25
21/24 71/13 77/9
98/19 102/18 110/5
111/16 131/22 131/23)
165/17 165/18 171/2
dog [1] 154/14
dogs [1] 154/15
doing [29] 5/25 10/5
10/6 10/13 11/8 19/9
22/18 40/21 40/24
45/12 56/25 57/1
57/13 60/24 61/12
61/15 61/17 79/23
81/1 89/16 94/3 94/4
100/18 110/22 123/24)
146/20 148/13 151/23)
166/16
don't [47] 4/21 9/10
12/24 14/23 15/3 15/4
17/3 18/17 32/24
33/12 38/9 42/15
49/24 52/13 53/5 53/9
58/19 59/5 61/25
61/25 62/9 62/10 63/4
78/9 85/11 86/15 90/2
90/8 109/8 112/9
117/13 126/21 128/14)
128/19 134/24 138/8
139/6 142/22 148/11
154/2 156/8 157/11
157/23 160/10 161/16)
164/5 166/19
done [31] 45/16 52/3
52/4 62/8 67/14 67/16
67/24 68/15 90/6
91/23 93/9 94/9 95/15)
98/9 99/20 102/13
102/16 109/24 111/25)
122/23 133/16 142/9
142/9 154/12 154/16
161/15 168/9 170/6
172/24 173/21 173/24)
door [2] 82/3 82/14
doubled [1] 19/9
doubt [7] 5/21 10/18
94/9 124/15 136/20
144/3 157/19
doubtful [1] 69/11
doubts [1] 67/22
down [64] 3/2 3/23
4/2 8/17 8/24 12/22
14/1 14/10 15/15
18/18 20/21 23/6
23/15 28/18 30/3
30/22 33/24 34/12
34/13 37/4 43/10 45/3
46/6 46/24 46/25
48/12 54/2 68/7 69/7
69/7 69/8 69/9 70/19
72/5 82/9 84/5 87/5
91/18 98/25 100/3
120/11 120/17 121/22)
124/3 125/6 125/7
126/3 126/5 127/19
129/13 129/14 131/3
135/22 138/19 140/24)
141/24 142/15 142/17]
143/11 143/24 155/5
158/8 159/9 168/7
draft [2] 103/3
103/23
drafted [2] 104/21
105/5
drafting [1] 103/22
dramatically [2]
10/19 116/5
drawing [1] 74/13
Drive [1] 69/16
drop [3] 24/12 24/18
24/20
drop-off [1] 24/12
dropped [1] 41/12
dry [2] 165/13 166/13
due [7] 7/10 22/20
39/17 62/14 84/7
136/1 165/10
dues [1] 4/17
duff [1] 147/20
during [7] 14/7 23/23
28/9 33/8 127/20
170/21 174/6
duties [2] 14/20
15/10
duty [4] 57/14
DVLA [1] 6/2
DWP [1] 150/12
E
each [5] 13/25 74/20
76/5 76/10 86/24
earlier [11] 32/15
34/5 76/15 89/4
104/16 105/17 106/11
111/10 121/17 132/14
160/12
early [5] 2/13 6/13
24/22 37/21 84/5
easier [3] 27/22 28/2
36/3
easiest [1] 89/23
easily [3] 49/24
165/22 169/19
easy [3] 46/10 60/17
171/23
eccentric [1] 162/8
echoing [1] 144/7
Ed [4] 38/15
edited [1] 136/21
educate [1] 57/1
effect [4] 26/14 35/20}
43/20 135/10
effectively [1] 55/23
effort [1] 88/9
eight [4] 142/10
143/6 147/25 148/15
eight years [1]
148/15
either [4] 25/2 153/10)
156/24 160/4
elected [3] 2/10 38/3
55/16
electricity [1] 152/17
Electronic [1] 43/21
elements [1] 29/3
else [5] 22/21 23/1
52/4 67/15 171/24
elsewhere [1] 19/7
email [46] 23/17 35/3
54/23 55/6 59/10
68/21 68/22 68/23
69/13 76/3 78/20
78/21 83/7 87/3 87/7
93/21 93/21 93/21
97/5 97/19 99/7
102/20 104/4 104/12
105/13 105/17 107/10}
107/16 108/23 109/13}
112/13 112/22 112/23}
135/20 137/5 137/14
138/20 140/14 140/14}
142/17 143/9 143/18
145/17 146/10 151/12)
168/1
emailed [1] 112/5
emailing [3] 125/23
135/22 137/4
emails [4] 95/3
139/10 148/1 148/3
emanated [1] 92/7
embarking [1] 56/9
emerges [1] 79/21
emerging [2] 28/16
28/22
emotional [1] 57/6
employ [3] 67/17
68/4 89/5
employed [7] 10/2
12/18 12/19 13/5
21/19 49/4 120/10
employees [2] 13/11
100/2
employing [1] 72/18
employs [1] 65/13
empty [1] 38/7
enable [1] 35/11
enables [1] 14/18
encounter [1] 57/7
encourage [1]
134/14
encouraged [2]
103/15 106/9
encouraging [2]
59/21 144/12
end [11] 25/7 27/23
69/8 74/19 81/15
82/22 83/19 86/21
88/7 88/20 132/6
ended [10] 8/19
17/10 49/8 71/2 71/3
122/3 122/10 132/8
170/7 174/2
ending [1] 18/3
ends [1] 57/10
enemy [2] 146/21
147/4
engage [5] 29/5 99/9
99/12 108/7 131/11
engaged [1] 131/21
engagement [1]
132/4
enough [5] 38/16
109/8 121/17 144/18
173/3
enquire [1] 85/3
enquiring [1] 140/17
enquiry [2] 56/13
56/20
enrolment [2] 39/24
121/1
ensure [4] 30/13
97/16 122/14 144/8
entirely [1] 137/9
entrepreneur [1]
12/19
entries [2] 89/11
155/14
entry [1] 120/12
environment [1]
100/14
EOs [1] 112/19
EPOS [5] 43/21 44/4
45/1 45/2 124/16
equates [1] 34/22
error [10] 51/3 60/1
65/6 76/23 77/10
77/13 77/114 77/14
90/23 119/13
errors [16] 10/7
74/19 82/3 84/7 88/13}
111/14 111/23 114/19)
1415/1 115/5 115/10
133/6 133/11 158/10
158/21 159/3
especially [3] 41/8
42/8 100/7
essentially [3] 38/21
155/10 160/8
establish [1] 56/21
estimation [2] 2/22
3/15
et [3] 13/12 39/20
100/2
et cetera [2] 13/12
100/2
etc [1] 120/15
even [25] 8/8 19/7
32/15 40/15 42/3 44/5I
48/13 54/1 61/7 71/1
74/25 80/4 84/25
113/24 114/19 115/4
115/4 115/10 115/21
123/25 133/5 134/13
155/2 159/7 159/10
event [3] 30/6 31/14
31/19
events [3] 30/11
30/17 112/17
(53) disregarded - eventsO
E
eventually [2] 67/17
168/6
ever [11] 4/25 42/2
49/20 52/25 63/17
71/9 100/17 144/11
150/9 173/6 173/6
ever-increasing [1]
4/25
every [38] 4/24 7/2
7/24 9/11 9/14 12/18
14/9 14/13 19/25 20/6
20/6 21/21 26/9 26/10)
26/10 51/13 51/16
52/6 76/6 76/10 88/9
92/17 93/7 94/23
98/20 119/13 122/2
133/24 134/5 144/7
152/1 157/6 157/7
158/7 158/7 159/10
163/16 172/4
everybody [7] 8/13
32/16 35/20 39/15
131/24 142/11 159/12)
everyone [3] 104/20
168/7 170/18
everything [16] 4/5
11/16 22/19 22/21
63/19 67/14 88/19
89/17 98/11 101/4
116/15 121/22 122/24}
133/2 166/16 171/24
evidence [32] 21/21
41/2 52/10 55/25 56/1
68/18 70/9 72/15
73/16 82/13 85/1
87/21 89/3 89/4 94/25
101/7 103/11 106/4
110/7 111/19 114/24
122/17 141/8 147/20
149/15 149/20 151/6
153/22 161/3 167/21
171/4 174/5
ex [5] 53/20 54/23
55/18 99/20 120/2
ex-members [2]
53/20 120/2
ex-serving [1] 55/18
ex-subpostmaster
[1] 54/23
ex-subpostmasters
[1] 99/20
exactly [5] 61/1
82/17 82/19 90/22
124/9
example [12] 22/6
37/10 39/24 74/15
78/24 84/7 150/20
151/11 164/14 165/3
165/20 173/14
examples [3] 155/10
155/10 155/15
excellent [1] 48/2
exchange [3] 37/5
84/8 160/17
excluded [3] 73/4
73/10 74/7
excursion [1] 91/9
executive [57] 2/8
15/11 37/13 37/25
38/1 38/24 39/14
42/23 42/25 43/8
43/17 44/16 53/6
54/19 54/22 55/5 55/8)
58/7 60/24 62/3 62/18
62/24 63/1 63/2 65/1
66/6 71/10 71/16
79/25 91/12 92/2
105/16 107/17 112/15)
112/19 112/20 112/21
112/23 113/9 113/17
114/15 115/2 116/8
117/19 130/24 138/18)
144/24 144/25 145/2
145/2 145/18 147/6
161/1 162/16 169/4
169/5 169/6
exhibition [1] 17/24
exist [2] 41/24 77/23
existed [3] 158/21
159/4 169/21
existent [1] 75/8
expand [2] 49/24
50/15
expect [4] 54/4 61/25
62/1 146/19
expected [3] 29/4
62/9 114/21
expecting [1] 53/11
experience [1] 109/7
experienced [4]
61/19 84/12 85/5
87/25
experiences [1]
84/20
experiencing [3]
61/18 77/19 95/5
expert [7] 58/23
67/18 68/4 89/5 123/8)
144/4 144/5
experts [2] 56/2
144/2
explain [9] 11/15
36/12 36/13 67/21
71/13 75/10 88/16
119/5 124/8
explained [7] 35/13
47/19 80/9 80/20
100/11 131/9 132/14
explaining [2] 129/16
155/23
explains [1] 82/9
explanation [2] 70/11
84/11
explanatory [1]
97/10
express [1] 112/21
132/1 141/18
extend [1] 120/20
extension [2] 10/16
29/18
extent [1] 36/5
external [5] 76/13
85/3 92/3 93/23
135/21
extra [2] 122/4 134/6
eyes [3] 6/24 10/12
93/14
F
face [2] 45/5 144/17
faced [2] 127/12
127/15
facilitate [1] 23/22
facilitates [1] 24/13
facilities [3] 14/1
20/10 114/17
facility [2] 14/12
20/11
facing [2] 31/5 57/12
fact [37] 7/23 7/23
10/15 19/22 21/11
22/8 22/9 24/21 35/23
38/23 47/13 60/12
60/20 75/21 78/13
80/24 82/15 93/10
104/23 108/12 116/16
118/1 123/19 124/21
126/20 140/1 149/20
152/2 153/9 154/19
157/23 158/2 159/1
166/22 167/4 171/3
172/2
facts [1] 56/21
factually [2] 7/4
52/22
fail [2] 62/6 113/10
failed [3] 103/11
106/5 116/17
failings [4] 114/4
126/9 126/18 126/21
fails [1] 113/18
failsafe [2] 55/3
114/17
failure [2] 45/14
47/18
failures [8] 43/14
43/19 47/12 47/16
47/17 91/25 126/24
127/3
fair [7] 82/25 131/17
131/22 149/17 162/23}
165/18 166/15
fall [1] 41/23
fallout [2] 107/7
121/11
fallouts [1] 146/23
falls [1] 91/23
false [1] 132/19
familiar [2] 170/16
expressed [3] 131/18)
170/23
family [4] 2/15 32/15
66/17 165/14
far [11] 10/24 34/22
36/3 42/19 45/10 54/2,
58/19 65/5 98/5 101/1
125/19
fart [1] 83/15
fast [1] 102/2
father [6] 59/11
68/22 69/18 119/11
164/14 164/15
fault [15] 3/15 7/3
72/16 73/16 82/15
90/23 95/1 147/16
147/22 147/22 147/23}
153/25 154/1 157/24
159/9
faults [6] 59/22 59/24)
99/10 99/13 111/6
132/23
faulty [12] 6/5 6/20
7/2 7/16 76/8 76/9
94/2 98/6 98/20 98/22,
119/14 132/17
favour [1] 139/19
fear [1] 99/19
February [1] 29/25
Fed [1] 169/21
Federation [52] 8/17
8/22 9/23 12/17 15/4
15/7 15/13 15/14
16/12 19/12 19/13
20/13 21/3 21/7 26/2
26/13 32/1 32/17 36/5)
37/16 37/18 38/12
39/18 48/20 50/12
58/1 59/18 61/5 64/23,
65/4 72/13 75/20
75/22 92/12 94/20
102/24 107/22 113/4
113/4 116/21 116/24
120/6 121/13 121/16
147/12 150/3 150/21
151/9 166/23 167/3
167/10 169/16
Federation's [5]
108/15 113/23 145/16
147/10 147/15
Federations [1]
145/13
fee [2] 24/13 24/14
feedback [1] 141/24
feel [7] 27/24 55/15
56/4 86/15 109/8
113/8 124/11
feeling [6] 23/11
113/7 113/15 138/9
138/9 138/11
feelings [1] 112/21
feels [1] 131/24
fees [1] 40/2
fell [2] 53/11 153/4
familiarise [1] 170/22)
felt [6] 38/3 38/10
48/15 82/13 126/15
168/16
few [23] 4/7 16/18
27/7 28/20 37/24
46/17 59/17 60/12
69/6 82/25 87/10
95/21 105/7 105/18
107/4 114/19 115/4
115/10 115/15 129/2
138/15 145/19 171/7
field [3] 14/9 36/17
38/7
fifth [1] 48/17
fight [4] 50/14 50/23
50/24 51/19
fighting [2] 51/21
172/22
figure [3] 27/12
27/12 27/12
figures [8] 18/19
20/15 27/2 27/3 36/8
36/10 36/19 64/24
filling [2] 81/5 95/5
final [9] 1/17 29/12
34/17 43/5 105/23
125/3 136/5 138/23
143/24
finalise [1] 103/25
Finally [1] 7/9
finance [3] 15/19
22/15 121/19
finances [1] 26/18
financial [3] 16/5
24/6 31/18
financially [2] 41/7
42/10
find [11] 52/1 64/14
77/16 84/10 86/17
86/17 88/5 88/21
93/15 105/19 173/20
finding [1] 114/2
findings [2] 87/9
106/17
finds [1] 86/10
fine [5] 26/17 101/24
130/13 157/20 158/25)
finish [9] 2/12 11/13
68/20 90/1 90/2 130/8
130/10 152/25 155/1
finished [2] 31/24
166/8
finishing [1] 130/6
firm [3] 94/14 99/15
126/1
first [26] 7/25 10/25
11/23 13/4 13/12 14/1
21/18 21/20 25/14
26/15 48/25 49/10
54/9 61/19 68/6 79/10
84/6 114/1 114/2
117/20 137/16 142/17)
151/14 168/13 170/15)
172/14
(64) eventually - firstO
F
firstly [3] 4/21 49/16
72/21
fit [8] 7/1 7/16 53/25
76/12 98/8 101/8
102/16 162/6
five [8] 15/21 80/6
80/25 95/12 96/12
130/10 152/18 171/10}
five years [3] 15/21
80/25 152/18
fivers [2] 134/6 134/8
flag [1] 134/17
flags [1] 133/20
flawed [3] 55/21
58/23 92/7
flush [2] 31/6 52/17
focus [1] 67/9
folding [1] 122/4
Folks [1] 107/12
follow [3] 72/14
73/15 105/17
followed [6] 43/13
57/17 62/15 85/9
148/20 148/21
following [8] 24/1
69/7 82/1 85/20 86/12
126/4 126/16 127/22
follows [22] 13/19
14/2 18/10 21/2 23/25
28/15 30/6 34/18 35/5)
37/7 37/22 43/12
54/21 55/7 77/7 88/12
99/7 110/23 112/15
113/6 113/22 144/20
forbid [1] 129/19
forcing [1] 160/13
Ford [1] 48/18
foreign [1] 84/8
forensic [3] 92/4
93/4 144/5
Forget [1] 67/6
form [1] 133/17
formally [2] 29/18
158/20
formed [2] 135/1
135/3
former [1] 83/11
formulate [1] 63/12
forthcoming [3] 55/4
97/10 100/13
fortune [2] 20/5 23/2
forum [3] 112/17
113/2 144/23
forward [14] 16/9
36/6 46/7 57/15 78/14
102/3 103/17 104/8
104/13 106/13 107/10)
109/16 153/18 168/1
forwarded [2] 54/24
104/11
forwarding [3] 105/9
110/19 136/25
fought [2] 8/14 8/16
foul [1] 153/4
found [9] 83/23 92/9
103/13 105/2 106/7
114/11 117/3 164/17
165/19
four [7] 10/16 10/17
33/10 59/7 80/25
96/12 172/14
four years [3] 10/17
59/7 172/14
four-year [1] 10/16
fourth [1] 48/16
fraction [6] 5/6 63/17
63/22 94/8 96/7 170/9)
framed [1] 30/10
framework [1] 23/24
franchise [24] 10/3
10/5 18/23 19/1 25/7
25/8 25/11 31/6 33/12
64/13 104/18 104/19
109/19 134/12 138/2
138/3 138/4 140/9
140/10 146/24 147/1
164/25 168/19 168/23)
franchised [1] 74/1
franchises [3] 18/21
143/4 146/14
frank [4] 11/10
frankly [4] 35/1 53/13)
66/2 159/12
Fraser [4] 145/13
147/12 169/17 169/23)
fraudulent [2] 75/2
106/25
Freeman [1] 124/4
Freeths [11] 131/5
1314/7 131/9 131/10
131/12 132/2 132/4
135/24 136/8 137/20
137/23
Freeths' [2] 136/11
136/17
freezes [1] 45/23
frequently [1] 86/19
Friday [3] 1/1 130/6
150/22
friend [1] 128/4
friend’ [1] 126/2
friends [1] 32/9
frightfully [1] 37/14
froing [1] 103/24
front [2] 1/12 169/2
Fujitsu [3] 91/22
158/20 159/2
full [9] 1/9 11/10 52/2
58/24 92/3 112/12
116/25 132/13 151/15)
fully [2] 34/20 170/23
functions [1] 27/7
fund [4] 52/24 71/2
122/14 153/12
fundamental [4] 73/5
92/23 101/9 114/16
fundamentally [7]
3/14 87/10 98/15
117/25 126/12 128/22
157/10
funded [1] 34/20
funders [1] 136/12
funding [9] 11/22
11/24 16/2 31/8 35/9
35/17 71/12 121/13
169/12
funds [12] 5/11 14/11
22/7 31/9 31/10 42/11
52/7 52/9 52/15 52/16
75/1 120/18
furious [4] 73/4
123/4 123/6 123/16
further [16] 12/22
17/12 18/5 21/1 21/11
28/18 30/22 37/4 62/1
75/19 85/21 87/19
88/11 140/20 144/22
170/17
future [15] 22/16
23/7 23/16 25/1 28/9
30/14 33/9 41/4 42/11
118/20 121/12 121/16
122/14 123/2 144/10
futureproofing [1]
36/5
Go
gagged [3] 160/18
160/21 160/23
gala [1] 18/1
gambling [2] 119/10
164/18
Gareth [1] 174/9
gas [1] 152/17
gave [11] 53/24 66/3
80/6 80/8 141/7
147/12 163/3 164/14
165/3 165/5 166/13
general [45] 2/10
2/12 5/16 8/15 9/22
15/1 15/13 17/17 33/5}
33/6 42/21 43/2 46/18
47/25 57/21 58/4
58/11 59/8 60/21
62/25 63/1 66/3 70/3
71/7 71/18 71/19
71/21 91/14 94/19
101/12 103/9 106/3
113/9 113/11 119/19
144/25 153/7 162/19
162/20 164/7 166/7
166/9 167/25 168/8
169/25
generally [3] 63/10
136/6 157/13
gentleman [1] 69/1
gentlemen [1]
148/22
genuine [1] 133/11
genuinely [3] 142/7
142/22 172/7
GEORGE [40] 1/7
1/10 22/19 29/14
33/11 34/19 35/19
39/13 68/17 79/1
79/12 94/19 103/3
103/9 105/17 106/3
110/18 112/8 121/22
122/23 124/4 124/6
125/10 125/13 136/17I
136/24 137/4 137/7
137/14 137/18 138/25]
139/11 140/16 140/25}
141/2 142/19 143/12
160/25 169/20 175/2
get [51] 8/21 10/22
13/6 16/11 22/20
22/25 23/3 27/21
31/25 35/22 36/18
38/11 41/18 61/6
64/19 68/11 68/16
71/5 81/10 83/24
84/15 85/12 86/5 90/7
112/25 115/24 122/20}
123/14 131/11 132/21
138/11 139/16 142/5
142/5 142/8 142/9
144/8 148/9 148/12
150/9 150/23 152/10
154/21 160/1 163/13
163/15 163/16 163/21
169/10 170/1 172/23
get-go [1] 10/22
gets [1] 119/14
getting [20] 25/5
26/20 26/23 27/19
34/2 34/3 52/18 53/5
66/22 68/10 71/11
80/16 84/24 87/22
89/25 90/10 98/16
107/5 132/8 141/5
Gilliland [1] 97/20
Giros [1] 106/25
give [19] 1/9 10/4
11/10 20/16 22/7 31/8}
31/9 45/17 104/25
109/23 109/25 134/22}
147/17 150/20 163/8
164/5 164/20 165/10
166/21
given [24] 7/14 18/19
30/25 35/21 35/22
46/1 52/2 53/3 56/22
73/8 74/7 79/17 82/18
93/17 97/2 101/1
117/6 117/16 129/11
132/25 139/6 149/20
151/22 163/10
gives [7] 64/20 75/17
120/1 138/4 139/14
165/16 165/17
giving [12] 3/4 16/19
26/23 27/17 82/24
82/25 108/5 111/16
123/8 135/3 157/6
174/5
glitch [2] 159/8
159/11
glitches [2] 87/11
149/11
GLO [4] 135/25
go [44] 2/13 4/4 8/7
10/22 13/25 15/6
22/22 36/13 42/19
46/16 46/23 48/11
52/4 55/13 56/19
59/14 60/14 62/6
66/10 69/13 70/19
75/24 86/6 87/5 91/10}
97/24 100/25 102/7
102/8 120/11 121/17
121/20 123/2 125/4
126/14 130/7 139/12
144/17 150/23 153/1
155/3 155/5 164/21
172/21
goal [1] 55/19
God [1] 129/19
goes [6] 45/3 54/1
101/4 133/12 151/17
165/14
going [68] 1/5 2/15
2/19 8/5 8/13 10/16
11/13 11/24 13/18
16/5 16/6 16/14 24/10)
26/16 28/20 29/25
32/4 32/14 33/8 36/5
41/18 41/22 42/6
42/19 43/23 43/24
44/20 57/16 59/6 62/2)
62/6 68/19 70/14
75/18 80/19 80/25
81/12 91/10 93/15
93/18 106/19 110/8
111/24 122/5 122/10
123/2 124/2 125/1
129/8 129/17 134/25
138/14 147/18 149/18)
152/12 153/18 154/3
155/9 156/17 156/20
157/24 163/18 166/23)
167/1 167/4 167/18
167/19 172/5
gone [3] 34/7 88/16
165/15
good [41] 1/3 16/18
20/10 30/12 37/7
37/13 37/23 39/13
46/18 56/14 56/15
70/17 78/25 81/11
83/23 84/1 84/10 87/7I
88/19 89/15 90/19
105/7 107/1 107/22
113/4 125/13 130/18
130/19 140/7 142/20
146/19 155/24 155/25)
156/5 157/17 161/15
161/22 162/1 162/3
(65) firstly - goodO
G
good... [2] 162/23
171/15
goodwill [2] 44/2
46/9
Google [1] 44/23
got [66] 12/24 15/14
16/2 16/13 19/5 20/5
21/15 21/25 22/16
22/17 22/21 23/11
31/7 33/3 35/21 36/1
36/4 42/13 42/15 45/2
45/2 51/1 51/9 58/2
59/5 59/17 64/4 64/18
65/20 65/21 66/12
66/23 67/22 70/25
81/11 83/4 90/3 98/17,
101/9 102/3 107/1
121/23 133/8 138/9
138/9 138/11 139/20
139/22 140/10 141/20)
147/10 147/11 149/16)
152/19 153/19 154/23
157/14 157/15 159/21
159/23 159/24 159/25)
159/25 162/7 171/1
172/10
government [29]
5/15 6/2 7/25 8/10
8/12 8/20 8/24 25/8
31/8 40/22 51/1 51/6
53/6 53/7 56/12 62/2
65/20 65/21 96/6
116/7 132/7 139/24
151/23 151/24 153/10}
153/12 153/20 154/18)
169/12
grant [15] 14/3 14/5
14/13 14/18 28/19
29/2 29/7 29/7 29/19
30/5 30/25 31/25 32/6
35/9 35/17
granted [1] 25/2
grants [1] 14/8
great [2] 3/4 55/14
Green [1] 106/25
Greenhow [5] 143/10
144/19 145/7 146/11
147/4
Gribben [1] 140/17
grill [1] 89/8
grilled [3] 68/13 89/6
111/12
grilling [2] 89/10
111/17
grip [1] 142/2
ground [1] 60/10
grounds [1] 136/9
group [11] 23/12
25/12 55/17 56/3 56/9
56/14 57/1 63/18
63/20 138/6 145/23
grow [1] 27/8
growing [2] 5/11
55/17
GS [1] 114/6
guarantee [1] 99/24
guilt [1] 116/18
guilty [1] 84/25
guy [1] 162/9
guys [2] 39/17
140/23
H
habit [1] 113/12
had [193]
had a [1] 91/9
hadn't [4] 104/14
105/3 134/2 164/16
half [10] 8/23 22/17
22/21 121/21 145/15
167/7 167/11 169/16
169/19 169/22
halfway [6] 3/2 30/3
85/10 87/5 125/6
142/17
Hamilton [4] 48/12
51/19 51/23 52/11
hand [8] 34/13 43/4
73/25 73/25 165/12
165/15 166/12 166/13)
handed [2] 55/23
171/17
handful [2] 72/9 76/7
handled [1] 46/2
handling [1] 83/21
happen [8] 3/11
12/21 17/3 86/11 90/6
164/19 165/21 165/22)
happened [19] 12/11
12/14 12/14 12/22
25/21 44/5 63/19
64/15 64/21 70/21
71/19 84/11 87/23
98/18 117/12 129/6
147/24 164/6 166/3
happening [5] 43/22
53/5 76/18 119/12
156/6
happens [5] 4/8 44/3
44/3 44/4 130/7
happy [2] 25/17
62/20
hard [4] 71/8 109/22
116/8 127/25
hardly [1] 15/8
hardship [1] 163/15
hardware [3] 78/4
86/9 116/12
hares [1] 59/20
has [111] 5/7 7/5
8/22 9/4 9/12 9/25
15/17 17/6 18/17
20/23 21/3 21/21
26/14 29/1 30/11
33/23 35/20 42/4
47/18 48/20 50/18
51/3 51/4 52/11 54/5
54/24 55/3 62/3 62/4
66/17 66/23 67/11
69/2 69/2 69/11 72/8
72/14 73/14 73/19
74/22 75/1 76/16
79/21 81/11 83/8 86/1
88/9 88/16 91/16 92/3
92/7 92/12 92/14 93/4
93/5 94/9 94/25 95/1
95/22 96/9 96/22 98/5)
99/14 100/15 101/3
101/17 103/13 104/11
105/2 105/17 105/25
106/7 106/12 106/16
108/13 108/25 110/9
112/9 112/13 113/12
113/17 114/11 114/23
115/9 115/19 116/10
118/5 122/17 126/7
128/7 129/15 131/23
131/24 132/12 132/25]
133/2 133/3 142/20
144/11 148/14 155/21
155/22 166/1 167/18
170/6 170/17 171/16
172/8 172/12 173/9
173/25
hasn't [2] 73/3 77/23
hatches [3] 140/24
141/24 142/15
haunt [1] 117/4
have [311]
haven't [8] 10/1
20/14 37/15 45/20
129/11 140/19 164/16
164/21
havenae [1] 173/24
having [27] 9/6 23/4
32/1 47/10 51/10
63/17 69/17 70/16
72/25 74/20 87/8
98/16 99/19 104/23
105/19 122/10 123/22
124/17 124/19 134/7
137/17 143/4 144/13
146/2 154/9 154/9
156/3
Hayes [1] 33/4
he [113] 4/14 4/16
21/3 29/14 29/18 37/6
37/23 39/12 53/21
55/7 57/10 58/2 59/9
59/10 63/7 64/25 66/4
69/2 69/5 69/6 69/7
69/8 69/8 69/9 69/10
69/11 69/21 69/21
70/9 70/21 70/23 71/2
71/2 71/5 71/9 71/9
77/6 82/5 82/9 82/9
83/7 88/12 98/22
98/23 99/7 100/18
101/6 102/4 102/14
103/22 104/5 104/9
104/12 106/9 107/5
108/24 112/7 112/15
113/3 113/4 113/5
113/21 115/9 115/13
115/13 119/10 119/10
124/8 125/23 135/22
135/23 136/5 136/16
137/3 137/13 137/17
139/14 140/1 140/4
140/5 140/6 141/5
142/18 142/20 143/11
143/16 143/18 143/25
145/13 145/14 145/14}
145/16 145/21 161/23}
161/25 162/4 162/5
162/6 162/8 162/9
162/11 162/11 162/12}
163/4 164/16 164/16
165/13 168/16 169/10
172/16 173/2 173/4
173/4
he's [13] 69/20 98/7
98/25 99/3 99/11
99/11 107/5 109/5
137/8 143/24 145/24
161/22 165/14
head [4] 66/11 108/6
122/3 142/5
heading [2] 45/4
47/15
heads [1] 152/3
Health [1] 22/1
hear [10] 1/3 1/6
55/24 85/11 89/21
149/1 149/2 149/4
149/6 149/8
heard [7] 9/4 50/19
52/11 69/15 95/21
107/6 167/21
hearing [3] 57/15
103/18 174/14
heartbreaking [2]
71/4 129/21
heavy [1] 55/22
held [4] 17/24 57/19
106/24 146/24
Helen [1] 126/25
hell [4] 148/15
help [18] 27/8 36/13
36/18 48/21 57/3 57/8
61/16 61/17 64/14
69/1 69/10 69/20
71/21 163/21 165/10
166/25 168/11 170/1
helped [1] 64/17
helpful [4] 164/3
164/9 165/6 165/9
helping [2] 48/23
7116
helpless [1] 113/8
helpline [14] 48/14
84/16 88/18 118/8
155/12 155/17 155/18
156/7 156/15 156/18
156/20 156/25 157/14I
157/16
helplines [3] 46/11
46/15 46/16
hence [1] 58/23
her [14] 15/8 48/12
51/19 74/20 75/1
75/17 75/19 81/5
89/25 95/6 118/6
152/17 155/24 172/23)
here [38] 9/19 11/15
11/15 15/9 22/16
26/18 27/2 32/8 32/8
32/9 39/15 49/7 51/19I
70/18 75/21 75/25
76/18 89/3 96/3 101/7
101/24 104/7 105/9
107/8 113/7 117/22
141/5 143/19 147/21
156/6 165/25 166/20
166/24 166/25 167/2
171/12 171/12 171/23)
Here's [1] 141/13
hers [1] 156/1
hesitate [1] 97/18
Hi [11] 103/2 104/6
107/12 108/25 112/8
125/17 125/24 139/11
140/16 140/23 141/2
Hibberd [1] 81/21
hidden [1] 43/25
hiding [2] 59/9 71/17
high [2] 165/13
166/13
higher [1] 14/16
highest [6] 61/9
61/10 66/6 66/8 76/17
78/6
highlight [1] 127/11
highlighted [2] 118/4
143/20
highlighting [1]
143/25
highlights [1] 114/4
him [19] 48/16 60/22
69/10 69/11 70/10
71/11 97/23 98/10
102/12 102/13 102/17)
109/10 115/9 137/8
140/19 142/22 162/6
162/7 163/4
himself [1] 69/6
hindsight [1] 7/17
hires [1] 94/14
his [24] 26/6 55/2
58/23 59/11 61/21
64/23 65/2 68/22 69/1
69/2 69/5 69/17 71/4
99/7 101/12 105/17
115/13 136/18 143/18}
162/14 162/22 164/17)
164/17 165/14
historic [2] 57/25
100/10
(66) good... - historicO
H
hm [1] 79/2
holders [5] 109/19
138/2 140/10 168/19
168/23
holding [3] 56/20
123/5 134/2
holiday [2] 47/18
70/20
home [1] 2/13
honest [9] 32/8 78/12)
87/2 127/25 134/11
141/4 141/15 141/21
151/22
honourable [2] 128/4
134/11
Hook [4] 72/2 102/21
104/11 108/23
hope [4] 57/11 64/19
100/12 112/25
hopefully [1] 67/21
Horizon [256]
Horizon’ [1] 103/19
Horizon/Justice for
[1] 109/2
Horizons [1] 65/18
Horlicks [1] 147/19
horrible [1] 71/3
hour [2] 79/13 104/5
house [6] 70/19
128/5 133/3 152/7
152/12 172/15
household [1] 70/19
houses [5] 112/3
129/19 149/24 150/7
151/5
how [40] 25/23 31/18
38/25 42/14 42/15
44/13 44/17 45/22
46/2 52/17 53/14 54/4)
57/8 59/5 65/8 65/19
65/20 66/8 66/21 68/8
68/9 70/17 75/18 81/8
81/9 83/13 94/10
95/19 113/15 126/15
133/17 133/19 135/1
142/2 142/2 142/13
149/8 165/21 166/9
168/9
however [17] 8/5
14/11 31/13 36/1 47/8)
49/15 60/23 74/24
84/10 87/10 87/16
88/7 118/1 132/25
136/2 145/1 150/10
HQ [1] 118/16
HR [1] 22/12
human [1] 77/13
hundreds [14] 3/17
6/1 6/19 31/7 33/7
47/9 51/10 52/6 60/11
64/11 94/22 153/13
154/17 172/3
I absolutely [1] 49/13
laccept [1] 116/5
I actually [3] 19/8
22/14 33/7
l agree [1] 124/19
l almost [1] 78/10
lalready [1] 32/9
always [1] 33/8
1am [10] 55/13 55/17
79/12 79/18 79/20
80/23 82/11 85/11
99/8 170/23
l anticipated [1] 39/5
l appear [1] 167/17
ask [2] 1/17 11/14
l asked [2] 111/10
151/4
lassure [1] 170/14
lat [1] 26/15
l attach [1] 75/10
I became [1] 71/19
I believe [12] 10/15
36/17 39/8 97/11 99/3)
107/21 127/24 129/1
147/10 147/12 166/22)
169/18
I believed [1] 6/12
I came [2] 49/7 70/25
lean [13] 8/7 32/5
50/7 71/22 76/6 78/13)
96/21 99/22 137/18
141/10 145/2 165/19
168/13
I can't [16] 14/7
16/20 45/17 65/9
71/15 77/3 78/11
78/16 79/5 87/4 89/12
104/16 117/12 130/7
139/8 171/25
I cannot [2] 70/5 81/8
lcatch [1] 161/25
I certainly [3] 12/5
67/15 72/1
I comment [1] 18/10
I completely [1] 3/24
I contacted [2] 61/3
75/5
I could [6] 13/6 71/20
138/12 147/21 150/20)
152/20
I couldn't [2] 104/25
105/6
I dealt [4] 61/10
I did [7] 39/2 70/25
71/11 105/11 123/4
156/19 160/13
I didn't [7] 19/6 26/24
27/11 27/18 71/16
96/20 164/5
I disagree [6] 22/3
98/10 101/17 102/13
102/17 122/16
I disagreed [1]
102/12
I dispute [3] 34/10
34/10 161/8
Ido [7] 1/13 53/10
54/7 55/11 132/5
136/18 156/14
I don't [34] 4/21 9/10
12/24 14/23 15/3 17/3}
18/17 32/24 42/15
49/24 52/13 53/5 53/9)
58/19 59/5 61/25
61/25 62/9 62/10 63/4
78/9 86/15 109/8
126/21 128/14 138/8
139/6 156/8 157/11
157/23 160/10 161/16
164/5 166/19
I experienced [1]
61/19
l expressed [1]
141/18
I fail [1] 62/6
I felt [1] 82/13
I find [1] 93/15
I first [2] 170/15
172/14
I formed [1] 135/3
I found [4] 165/19
I fundamentally [1]
98/15
I gave [3] 80/6
164/14 165/3
I genuinely [1]
142/22
I got [3] 15/14 19/5
70/25
Thad [44] 21/15
21/16 28/13 32/4
32/13 55/11 68/25
111/1 118/24 119/4
121/18
Ihave [21] 6/25 39/2
50/7 55/14 56/24
74/18 78/7 81/22 82/6
97/9 97/22 100/23
112/22 112/24 113/1
125/18 134/22 143/13
148/18 153/2 170/15
I haven't [5] 20/14
45/20 140/19 164/16
164/21
I hope [2] 64/19
100/12
I joined [1] 154/10
Ijust [9] 11/18 20/14
26/24 32/2 32/17
58/11 61/4 80/15
157/3
I keep [1] 165/24
I knew [5] 95/10
154/11 154/15 162/7
162/8
I know [8] 20/16
34/10 35/23 42/21
TAN17 117/7 122/17
152/2
Heft [7] 6/13 32/3
32/15 147/6 147/9
167/7 169/16
I made [1] 122/2
I make [9] 80/22
101/5 109/21 111/20
138/1 139/21 168/21
169/1 171/5
I may [3] 58/19 95/16
152/19
I mean [3] 105/7
147/21 164/13
I mentioned [2]
92/22 111/22
I might [1] 71/1
I must [2] 19/7 21/7
I never [2] 154/1
154/1
Ino [1] 160/15
I now [1] 158/13
lonce [1] 6/23
lonly [1] 130/10
I part [1] 152/21
I pause [1] 51/16
I personally [1] 77/16)
I probably [5] 2/14
95/11 105/6 123/3
157/3
I quote [2] 57/2
149/21
Iraised [1] 61/24
I really [2] 15/4
138/10
I recall [3] 4/14 43/20
83/3
I reckon [1] 49/7
I reiterate [1] 47/8
I remember [2] 13/1
134/5
I said [20] 22/15
22/17 60/11 69/17
72/21 96/17 104/16
104/25 121/17 121/20
123/11 125/1 137/25
140/9 142/3 147/8
150/17 160/12 167/6
169/21
I say [2] 28/4 132/5
I see [2] 43/6 150/2
Isend [1] 87/21
Isent [1] 151/12
I should [2] 129/1
166/19
I spend [1] 165/24
I spoke [2] 65/14
69/17
I stated [1] 5/24
I still [4] 8/4 10/13
49/15 66/16
I supported [1] 73/9
I take [2] 148/22
165/23
I tell [1] 158/19
I think [43] 8/18
11/13 11/19 15/2 17/2)
17/16 19/2 30/15 32/1
37/23 39/9 47/1 49/15]
50/3 54/1 58/10 59/11
68/16 68/21 69/22
70/7 70/8 103/4 103/6
117/6 122/17 124/4
126/22 128/25 129/25)
130/24 131/23 132/9
137/25 140/1 140/6
140/6 141/24 147/14
155/2 158/2 168/14
174/9
I thought [4] 141/21
I told [1] 69/10
I took [3] 62/24 95/3
169/7
I totally [4] 101/8
l understand [3] 22/2)
27/20 129/21
I undoubtedly [1]
59/3
lused [3] 7/7 55/10
96/13
I want [2] 11/10
173/25
I wanted [1] 32/7
Iwas [53] 2/13 2/13
2/15 8/16 10/20 19/10I
26/9 27/17 31/23 32/4I
32/13 32/17 36/5
36/11 40/24 42/22
46/4 48/6 59/7 67/4
67/4 73/4 80/20 80/23
89/18 95/11 95/12
96/25 115/14 115/25
119/7 119/7 119/12
122/8 122/22 125/13
141/15 142/14 147/5
151/3 154/3 159/1
162/17 164/6 165/21
166/19 166/23 167/1
167/4 172/13 172/15
172/19 172/22
I wasn't [10] 8/15
11/20 11/21 42/21
47/25 47/25 67/2
71/20 147/14 166/7
I went [1] 142/1
I will [14] 27/25 33/19]
48/1 77/5 80/10 86/5
89/13 111/3 111/3
127/4 171/9
I won't [2] 134/12
167/9
I wonder [1] 170/5
I worked [2] 143/5
169/4
I would [17] 23/23
26/11 33/15 34/1
66/10 72/3 75/16
(67) hm -T would
I would... [10] 85/20
95/17 96/19 103/21
104/1 107/8 111/19
114/21 136/24 146/19}
I wouldn't [1] 10/20
I write [2] 4/24 124/6
Vd [17] 2/17 24/2
29/23 32/16 37/3
37/13 42/14 48/24
49/10 71/16 95/14
110/21 124/41 127/40
138/21 139/8 146/23
Vil [25] 7/10 28/4
29/12 58/13 59/12
76/16 76/16 79/13
86/6 86/6 96/2 96/3
97/23 99/5 100/24
102/11 124/14 126/6
136/25 143/17 145/10}
153/2 167/9 167/20
170/3
I'm [76] 1/19 2/18
11/3 11/15 11/15
11/17 11/24 13/18
16/17 20/10 20/15
20/16 26/16 26/23
27/11 32/8 32/8 32/9
42/6 47/8 48/1 49/21
49/24 57/16 58/16
59/8 68/19 70/4 70/14
TAINT 71/20 71/21
7713 77/3 78/16 79/9
80/18 81/2 86/5 91/10
98/5 101/1 101/12
109/21 110/3 110/11
115/8 115/9 117/12
122/24 123/4 123/6
125/1 128/17 135/3
138/8 138/10 138/12
138/14 141/12 141/19}
142/13 147/17 149/1
155/9 156/22 158/24
165/23 166/2 166/21
167/18 167/19 170/4
170/16 171/24 173/9
"ve [84] 7/20 9/6
10/21 10/25 12/24
21/15 23/11 33/3 44/1
42/15 42/21 45/21
46/7 48/22 50/5 59/5
61/14 63/16 64/4 64/4
64/9 64/18 66/20
67/22 68/5 73/8 74/7
76/24 80/9 80/20
82/23 83/3 90/6 93/9
93/11 94/7 95/11
95/21 96/13 98/6
98/17 101/1 101/9
102/3 102/10 102/10
102/10 105/7 109/18
116/6 117/15 122/20
122/21 122/22 124/14]
133/4 138/9 138/9
143/1 143/6 146/3
146/13 148/8 148/11
149/9 157/14 157/15
159/18 159/20 162/7
164/20 165/25 167/2
168/18 169/15 171/41
171/15 173/11
lan [1] 118/8
idea [1] 79/16
ideal [3] 154/20
154/20 155/6
identified [2] 96/11
108/13
ie [4] 19/24 49/4 54/6
129/3
ie Crown [1] 49/4
ie the [1] 54/6
ie there's [1] 129/3
ie they [1] 19/24
if [243]
ignored [2] 56/6
161/5
ignoring [1] 94/3
imagine [4] 84/24
95/14 139/8 143/20
immediately [1]
84/15
impact [1] 81/12
impartial [1] 144/2
implementation [1]
60/16
implemented [1]
10/25
implication [1] 9/16
implications [4] 22/4
22/5 22/16 150/25
implied [1] 98/5
imply [2] 86/8 124/22
implying [1] 52/23
importance [1] 60/8
important [7] 31/21
37/14 41/8 59/20
103/7 122/13 145/6
importantly [2] 62/10
123/6
impression [3] 7/15
53/24 166/14
imprisonment [1] 9/6
improvement [2]
103/17 106/10
improvements [3]
44/10 44/11 92/2
inappropriately [1]
82/14
inbox [1] 126/14
inception [2] 66/17
73/10
inches [3] 56/7 78/1
78/2
incident [1] 82/1
include [2] 24/5
124/15 129/10 132/25)
138/11 139/20 139/22)
27/10
included [3] 27/11
74/1 160/6
142/11
income [13] 11/2
15/18 15/24 16/15
16/24 18/5 19/2 19/3
19/4 19/18 25/23 26/6}
27/8
incompetent [1] 75/2
incorrect [3] 7/5 86/3
157/10
incorrectly [1]
144/16
increase [1] 106/14
increased [2] 88/8
103/19
increasing [5] 4/25
10/18 26/25 27/1
27/12
incredible [1] 73/7
indeed [2] 1/21 5/13
independence [4]
12/3 13/10 13/13
21/10
independent [24]
13/22 21/22 21/24
30/13 34/20 72/9
72/19 73/19 74/4
80/19 93/23 95/9
96/16 96/22 98/1 99/1
100/19 102/5 103/13
105/3 106/1 106/7
114/11 121/20
independently [1]
136/21
indicate [1] 47/11
indicated [2] 32/16
116/13
individual [10] 6/14
9/17 33/3 47/20 115/8
126/22 131/15 144/15
144/21 144/22
individuals [2] 53/1
117/2
industrial [2] 95/15
95/20
industry [4] 62/5
111/9 133/4 150/11
inevitable [1] 114/18
inexperience [1]
84/6
influence [2] 34/3
120/22
inform [5] 21/7
100/12 109/4 136/22
136/24
information [11] 54/7]
81/22 88/11 100/4
109/13 116/13 123/6
123/17 123/18 146/8
146/10
initial [4] 15/21
including [3] 6/2 8/17I
initially [1] 36/20
innocent [1] 144/15
input [2] 72/2 80/8
inquiry [15] 9/4 9/25
50/18 52/11 83/4 94/9
96/13 128/5 134/11
141/21 149/10 158/19}
170/6 172/1 173/20
Inquiry's [1] 110/8
inside [1] 140/4
instance [2] 68/7
163/23
instances [2] 87/16
125/20
Instant [2] 17/16 82/6)
instead [4] 4/22 7/18
134/7 168/10
instigated [1] 12/22
Institute [1] 19/10
instructed [2] 5/14
102/25
instruction [1] 108/1
insulted [1] 75/8
insurance [9] 15/18
15/24 16/2 16/7 16/13}
16/15 70/17 70/17
70/19
insurers [1] 136/12
integrity [2] 79/18
158/11
intended [2] 152/18
152/20
intends [1] 120/5
Intent [1] 30/5
intention [1] 133/16
interest [1] 99/2
interested [1] 170/18
interesting [1]
116/22
interests [2] 35/12
40/23
interim [7] 86/4 86/8
87/8 111/13 114/2
117/24 123/18
internal [1] 82/2
interpretation [1]
153/23
intervention [1]
132/7
interview [3] 162/14
163/3 165/16
interviews [2] 56/11
166/6
into [51] 3/21 8/14
10/11 11/4 11/5 16/11
19/21 26/5 30/1 39/11
48/8 48/15 55/14 56/9)
58/2 64/24 72/19 74/5)
75/25 78/7 79/17 80/2,
80/8 80/19 82/6 83/6
85/17 85/17 88/23
91/10 92/4 93/4 93/18)
97/10 98/2 99/10
99/13 102/6 107/16
111/9 123/14 128/5
134/25 149/16 150/3
154/3 160/5 169/13
171/5 172/2 172/21
introduced [2] 16/3
31/13
inundated [1] 45/15
invariably [1] 88/21
invested [3] 140/11
143/4 168/20
investigate [13]
48/21 49/11 53/2
53/19 61/1 61/20 65/8)
65/11 80/17 81/6
81/15 94/14 100/9
investigated [4] 55/1
65/5 87/17 162/13
investigating [2]
60/23 63/23
investigation [27]
63/11 63/14 63/15
72/11 73/20 74/4
74/14 75/14 75/14
84/22 95/9 96/16
96/22 97/10 97/15
98/2 99/1 99/4 99/9
99/12 99/16 100/4
100/8 100/20 102/6
113/21 117/1
Investigator [1]
155/13
investigators [5]
116/18 164/4 164/10
165/7 165/16
investment [1]
159/23
invited [1] 147/11
invoiced [2] 17/9
17/10
involve [1] 139/16
involved [10] 26/7
59/17 62/12 72/1 72/4
81/10 99/15 99/21
103/20 115/6
involved’ [1] 114/20
irregularities [1]
72/10
is [409]
Ismay [1] 48/6
isn't [7] 13/8 73/21
101/8 117/5 145/24
156/23 169/3
issue [37] 3/24 9/25
11/7 12/2 13/9 13/12
13/14 21/10 21/11
44/19 49/12 50/17
52/25 53/14 55/1 55/3
56/17 58/12 59/8
68/20 70/7 78/14 82/9I
83/24 85/4 89/2 93/18
103/6 109/3 109/6
118/5 118/8 128/9
138/24 138/25 144/8
144/10
(68) would... - issueO
issued [2] 106/16
125/25
issues [45] 3/15 8/5
9/13 13/9 25/6 42/17
45/8 45/19 45/24
46/12 46/20 49/22
50/18 54/3 57/7 65/9
65/10 66/19 75/23
75/23 79/4 80/4 93/15)
95/13 95/14 96/11
99/19 99/22 100/10
102/3 106/11 108/13
111/14 116/20 127/9
127/11 127/15 127/23}
128/12 139/25 166/3
168/1 168/6 168/15
173/19
issuing [1] 47/3
it [546]
it’ [4] 114/12
it's [106] 1/15 2/18
7/23 7/23 8/3 8/3 15/8
16/1 16/1 18/18 18/24)
20/4 20/20 23/14 24/1
26/13 26/23 27/22
33/20 33/25 35/19
37/4 39/19 42/5 45/1
46/1 47/1 47/16 52/8
53/22 57/17 59/11
63/19 63/21 63/24
64/20 66/2 67/20
68/22 68/23 70/21
71/3 71/8 73/8 74/11
74/14 75/24 77/5
78/18 80/25 81/15
86/7 89/25 90/15
90/15 91/12 92/20
93/2 94/15 95/21
97/19 98/16 99/5
101/21 101/23 101/24}
103/22 104/25 105/6
110/7 112/13 112/14
116/8 124/1 124/24
125/1 129/3 129/12
129/22 134/12 138/21
138/22 139/8 144/4
147/16 147/23 149/10)
149/19 152/2 152/7
152/22 153/9 156/9
156/23 157/1 157/4
157/17 157/24 157/24}
161/16 168/25 169/6
169/20 170/5 172/6
173/5
it’ [1] 106/8
item [1] 84/3
items [3] 7/1 18/3
24/1
its [13] 5/7 9/1 23/1
56/20 60/16 66/17
73/9 85/4 103/11
106/5 114/5 169/17
170/16
itself [5] 21/12 26/14
88/4 99/5 104/23
ITV [3] 109/23 129/4
173/15
ITV's [2] 7/13 7/13
J
jail [1] 129/17
January [7] 20/19
21/9 21/13 42/25
83/18 83/20 97/14
Jenkins [1] 174/9
Jennifer [1] 155/8
JFSA [1] 6/25
Jo [4] 48/12 51/18
51/23 52/11
job [11] 19/11 20/10
40/24 45/16 59/19
89/16 102/9 115/21
141/20 146/13 152/12)
John [1] 66/14
join [7] 26/8 33/9
33/10 33/13 35/20
38/5 58/2
joined [9] 2/1 2/6
12/9 33/14 36/2 38/9
140/5 146/5 154/10
joining [2] 36/3
120/14
jot [1] 160/11
journal [3] 17/4 17/6
17/13
journos [1] 139/14
JSA [1] 100/23
judged [1] 12/23
judgement [1] 174/1
judicial [1] 128/5
Judy [4] 48/18
July [17] 33/23 33/25
59/7 69/2 69/4 91/22
102/20 104/2 105/15
105/20 108/21 111/16)
112/6 117/10 123/17
127/21 162/10
July 2001 [1] 162/10
jumping [3] 86/5
118/14 119/13
June [14] 1/1 36/22
36/24 46/22 74/10
78/22 81/19 82/19
82/22 91/11 91/12
94/12 130/21 174/15
June 2006 [1] 46/22
June 2016 [1] 130/21
just [92] 2/18 7/23
8/2 8/7 9/7 11/5 11/18)
13/18 16/10 16/21
20/14 20/15 20/25
20/25 21/24 23/12
26/24 28/22 28/23
29/12 31/25 32/2
32/17 33/18 37/8 37/9
37/13 41/1 45/23 47/2
48/22 58/8 58/11
58/16 58/20 60/12
71/16 75/8 77/3 79/6
80/15 82/23 86/25
90/21 90/21 94/18
97/22 97/24 100/23
102/18 103/4 108/3
111/23 113/25 114/23
117/15 122/23 124/24
126/6 133/7 133/15
135/25 138/15 138/21
139/21 142/8 144/2
147/18 147/21 148/3
149/3 150/12 152/2
152/7 155/9 157/3
166/4 166/20 167/5
167/19 169/6 169/20
171/15 171/23 172/6
justice [13] 53/23
97/22 98/4 98/11
99/16 109/2 144/4
145/12 147/12 164/12
169/17 169/23 171/17
Justice for [2] 53/23
98/4
K
Kalia [4] 162/11
162/25 163/5 165/13
Kalia's [1] 163/3
kaput [2] 53/25 101/4
keen [1] 109/5
keep [13] 11/1 11/2
11/14 33/19 33/21
64/6 77/8 102/11
116/16 122/13 137/5
152/6 165/24
keeping [3] 97/25
163/6 163/7
keeps [1] 156/10
Keith [2] 112/6 113/3
Ken [4] 114/15 115/7
115/12 117/14
kept [3] 133/3 163/17
172/25
Kevin [4] 69/18 69/25)
70/2 97/20
key [4] 19/22 29/2
133/20 136/13
kicked [1] 148/14
kicking [1] 147/13
led [1] 26/14
kind [15] 47/11 51/3
51/3 53/9 53/12 54/5
83/23 108/7 119/4
150/24 153/14 164/12
173/10 173/16 173/21
knew [23] 4/4 26/2
26/2 48/13 49/18 62/8
67/23 93/17 93/18
95/10 96/15 96/16
119/11 140/4 147/20
61/4 61/14 68/1 68/16
101/12 101/25 102/10
151/24 154/11 154/15)
157/25 162/7 162/8
167/1 171/20
knock [1] 136/12
knocking [1] 20/11
know [81] 12/24 15/3
17/3 18/17 18/24 19/6}
19/12 20/16 22/10
22/16 23/8 32/12
34/10 35/18 35/23
38/15 39/16 42/15
42/21 44/3 48/6 49/24
52/2 53/5 53/9 53/10
54/3 58/19 59/5 62/9
62/10 65/24 66/18
66/20 66/22 69/10
71/3 71/7 71/16 71/17,
72/21 78/9 80/10
93/10 93/11 112/9
112/12 117/7 117/16
119/5 122/17 128/14
129/13 130/5 131/22
132/5 132/8 134/23
138/8 139/17 140/7
141/16 144/18 147/16)
147/22 152/2 155/3
156/8 156/17 156/20
156/24 157/2 157/24
161/8 161/20 164/5
164/6 164/11 165/19
172/13 173/5
knowing [2] 123/8
123/13
knowledge [2] 1/23
109/8
known [3] 3/3 154/10)
170/22
L
Labour [4] 8/10 8/12
13/23 21/6
lack [4] 34/3 76/20
116/13 129/3
lacked [2] 7/21 9/8
lacking [1] 87/15
lacklustre [1] 75/18
ladies [1] 148/22
lady [2] 95/4 165/4
laid [1] 82/14
large [3] 41/15
114/25 166/10
last [24] 3/8 9/2 31/1
33/25 41/14 44/5 44/6
46/3 68/25 73/13
78/25 83/22 85/14
92/18 92/25 95/21
96/12 101/2 125/9
144/23 148/15 148/16}
152/18 161/11
lasted [1] 122/7
late [2] 31/17 124/11
later [8] 42/4 55/14
67/21 69/6 104/5
117/3 121/7 137/8
launch [2] 16/5 56/13
launching [2] 16/6
16/7
law [4] 59/11 68/22
69/1 69/18
lawyer [3] 106/21
135/21 166/24
lawyers [5] 10/8
106/22 107/18 108/5
108/16
lay [4] 23/24
LCAS0001376 [1]
57/17
lead [2] 4/10 106/20
leader [1] 124/6
leadership [6] 5/18
28/8 38/17 162/22
166/11 166/14
learned [1] 149/9
learning [1] 103/17
least [6] 56/12 56/19
89/6 111/12 114/21
125/14
leave [11] 2/14 9/18
31/9 38/6 90/4 134/15]
143/21 143/22 143/23)
163/18 165/12
leaving [4] 26/3
32/17 79/20 168/6
ledger [2] 110/2
133/13
ledgers [1] 133/25
Lee [22] 4/12 4/14
48/10 48/10 53/20
54/17 54/19 54/24
55/10 57/20 57/24
57/25 58/11 58/13
58/22 59/5 59/6 60/20
61/4 64/23 68/20
167/23
left [16] 2/14 6/13
25/15 25/18 32/3
32/15 32/17 90/8
121/24 147/6 147/9
166/12 167/7 168/16
169/12 169/16
leg [1] 70/20
legal [4] 13/11 52/6
52/24 166/25
Legally [1] 131/17
legals [1] 107/8
length [1] 44/24
less [7] 10/24 23/20
27/9 49/8 86/18 99/23}
173/23
let [10] 5/18 50/15
68/5 68/5 78/18
129/13 129/14 139/17)
155/1 172/21
let's [20] 11/22 13/8
28/7 42/17 51/17
51/18 59/14 67/9
67/11 71/23 72/5
89/24 90/8 101/18
(59) issued - let'sO
L
135/5 144/17 152/11
155/14 166/4
letter [32] 11/25
12/25 13/18 13/20
18/10 20/19 35/5
54/18 55/13 61/14
70/12 71/13 71/15
74/12 97/9 99/5 99/6
113/1 113/6 121/6
letters [3] 6/3 75/11
1727
level [9] 47/11 51/2
61/9 61/10 66/6 66/8
levels [5] 51/25
76/17 78/6 89/17
103/18
levels’ [1] 106/15
liable [4] 81/16
106/24 151/21 153/11
liberty [2] 128/3
144/16
lie [1] 54/5
lied [1] 53/4
lies [2] 93/19 172/11
lieu [4] 14/12
life [9] 4/10 7/23 41/8
61/25 81/13 150/25
152/2 153/9 173/17
lifetime [1] 5/7
like [55] 2/17 9/13
16/7 17/14 17/17
18/14 22/11 23/24
24/2 29/23 34/1 37/3
37/13 38/7 41/13
41/18 43/24 45/1
49/10 51/9 53/20
67/19 69/10 70/16
75/16 87/2 87/17
90/21 98/16 104/18
104/21 109/22 110/21
111/16 113/14 113/24}
124/1 124/8 126/24
126/25 127/10 128/15}
128/22 129/22 135/13)
135/14 138/22 152/22)
153/6 162/6 165/13
165/24 167/3 169/10
172/6
likely [9] 32/23 35/1
59/1 59/23 60/4 81/10
86/10 105/3 130/8
likes [1] 113/14
Lilley [1] 8/9
Limited [11] 18/13
19/4 25/13 35/8 72/8
84/21 86/1 103/16
let's... [6] 114/23
101/11 101/12 101/15}
101/19 101/19 101/22)
101/23 101/25 112/14)
135/24 136/25 137/10)
113/10 134/24 141/23)
Linda [1] 51/24
line [7] 12/22 23/6
60/6 69/7 109/22
135/11 135/11
link [1] 75/10
linked [4] 30/11
32/21 42/14 86/9
list [2] 21/8 21/13
listen [2] 38/2 39/17
listening [1] 166/15
litigation [3] 106/21
136/10 138/6
little [6] 69/19 69/23
101/18 132/8 132/9
141/11
live [4] 100/11
livelihood [1] 144/16
livelihoods [2] 128/2
150/8
114/20 115/5 115/11
115/12 115/20 116/3
116/4 171/20
living [2] 31/7 165/2
loads [1] 124/14
local [2] 22/2 82/7
locker [2] 172/21
172/23
logic [7] 21/20 22/3
41/24 41/25 45/18
80/9 80/11
London [2] 19/11
131/21
long [23] 12/11 16/18
40/15 43/14 43/18
64/5 64/9 77/17 81/17
81/17 87/23 104/25
121/16 121/25 122/1
122/7 131/24 144/18
147/24 159/7 161/22
161/23 163/2
long-term [2] 43/14
43/18
longer [7] 4/15 83/5
116/17 120/6 121/2
121/3 160/15
look [39] 11/22 13/2
22/18 24/2 26/12
33/11 42/6 42/8 42/17
42/18 44/8 48/25
57/15 62/13 66/12
69/23 72/19 80/2 83/6
85/9 85/13 85/17 93/4
98/2 103/17 106/13
111/14 111/16 113/24
115/22 117/19 124/2
125/6 140/13 155/14
156/8 156/16 157/23
173/14
looked [9] 9/6 19/13
23/6 28/22 28/23
121/24 122/10 166/17)
168/5
118/18 141/15 168/21
lives [11] 9/4 9/5 64/3
looking [12] 7/19
61/19 72/24 80/4
92/18 115/18 117/6
123/1
104/12 104/21
loop [2] 80/21 97/25
Lord [1] 169/23
lose [5] 22/23 133/9
150/7 150/8 152/12
losing [7] 22/25
25/25 36/16 41/11
52/20 71/3 129/18
loss [10] 41/13 69/5
81/9 81/11 88/3 88/8
156/3
losses [23] 81/16
83/18 84/1 84/5 84/6
84/11 90/25 92/9
118/15 119/2 129/23
131/6 131/14 132/18
133/18 147/24 153/6
156/5 156/10 156/16
lost [13] 16/22 40/10
41/19 46/7 58/24
112/2 116/15 128/1
132/22 149/24 151/5
152/11 159/20
lot [24] 9/19 25/16
31/21 33/4 35/23
35/24 39/7 40/4 46/8
72/4 73/2 90/3 96/18
96/18 110/13 113/7
121/18 127/2 134/5
139/20 143/4 162/4
164/20 165/11
lots [3] 85/12 133/24
140/10
low [1] 152/16
130/1
lying [3] 123/13
147/20 171/21
Lynda [3] 48/2 78/8
89/15
Lyons [1] 79/11
made [37] 7/3 20/14
20/20 32/1 33/11
49/20 56/22 60/22
74/2 84/1 87/12 90/16
92/2 102/14 105/14
115/9 117/14 117/15
122/2 122/6 122/12
122/21 126/10 126/19]
133/10 137/18 143/1
146/13 150/17 155/12
155/24 157/6 158/1
158/7 159/7 170/19
173/11
19/12 22/8 22/19 56/3
looks [4] 32/25 67/19
155/21 155/22 155/25]
158/22 172/20 173/16
lunch [3] 125/4 127/5I
magazine [8] 97/13
136/4 136/21 137/9
137/24 138/7 139/2
139/4
magazines [1] 56/7
mail [10] 6/3 8/19
36/16 97/8 133/4
154/12
main [4] 14/5 18/14
30/15 92/22
mainstream [1] 56/9
maintain [1] 131/12
major [3] 4/10 95/13
102/3
majority [12] 12/15
25/21 41/15 62/19
127/1 129/9 133/14
134/9 134/10 150/15
150/16 164/23
make [51] 4/5 8/18
8/20 22/17 22/20
52/17 77/9 80/22
81/11 84/14 89/23
101/5 104/19 109/21
111/20 124/25 134/4
138/1 139/21 146/14
147/1 151/16 151/19
155/2 155/25 156/4
156/16 157/4 157/5
157/17 158/2 159/5
163/21 165/2 165/6
169/1 171/5 171/10
172/7 173/3 173/7
makes [4] 9/10 49/13
113/24 124/21
making [8] 68/10
79/9 98/13 115/12
122/8 142/7 147/19
174/4
malpractice [1] 85/1
man [3] 36/12 75/8
169/6
manage [1] 77/21
management [5]
171/19
manager [3] 2/4
77/21 77/22
managers [2] 10/23
51/2
managing [1] 78/3
mantle [1] 169/7
manual [23] 64/11
98/19 110/2 112/1
112/2 112/3 112/4
129/6 129/17 129/18
129/19 133/5 133/12
133/21 133/22 149/22)
149/23 149/24 151/6
151/18 152/3 152/14
11/6 22/1 25/12 36/14}
29/17 31/7 31/23 32/9)
135/13 135/15 137/10)
166/16 168/21 168/24)
5/14 83/22 84/4 93/13)
153/5
manually [1] 157/8
many [37] 6/25 10/3
15/17 20/12 20/13
22/12 22/12 28/13
28/13 38/24 53/14
53/20 53/20 53/22
64/16 65/4 65/8 66/8
87/14 101/3 103/1
107/2 110/19 114/4
127/12 127/15 127/24I
129/6 129/7 141/23
144/2 145/18 146/13
149/14 150/20 159/20)
168/1
March [4] 44/8 44/16
59/9 69/3
Marilyn [7] 46/18
48/2 51/24 72/2 78/8
81/13 89/14
Marine [1] 69/16
Mark [27] 63/5 63/5
63/6 63/8 104/4 105/9
110/16 110/24 122/18)
125/11 125/12 125/17)
125/23 125/24 126/25)
127/5 138/20 138/23
139/18 139/20 141/1
142/18 146/9 168/5
168/13 168/14 168/14)
Mark's [1] 168/15
marked [1] 29/1
marked-up [1] 29/1
market [1] 29/15
massive [4] 33/4
33/5 63/25 147/25
match [1] 16/13
material [1] 31/16
Matt [3] 102/21
102/21 108/25
matter [4] 12/25 21/2
43/18 128/6
may [39] 1/15 9/21
12/21 13/20 14/5 23/7I
35/4 36/7 39/14 45/7
45/24 48/9 58/19 59/3)
61/18 70/8 72/7 77/13}
77/13 81/22 82/2
82/13 95/16 100/15
100/16 103/4 103/23
112/16 117/3 122/12
130/9 137/5 142/17
146/21 152/19 155/22!
156/4 170/20 171/3
May 2015 [1] 36/7
maybe [12] 12/23
20/2 32/11 32/12
33/10 38/16 66/10
72/2 83/5 90/2 95/22
138/11
McConnell [5]
125/22 140/1 140/4
140/5 146/9
me [56] 1/3 2/15 5/3
(60) let's... - meO
me... [53] 5/18 9/10
9/16 13/20 15/11
19/12 19/13 21/17
25/19 26/4 27/22 32/6
32/13 49/13 50/15
52/17 59/6 61/25
67/21 68/5 68/5 75/10
78/18 82/1 94/10 97/1
97/2 97/18 102/12
102/18 105/17 110/20
110/21 133/1 139/7
144/21 145/5 145/8
148/1 149/2 149/6
151/16 153/17 155/1
160/15 164/5 166/24
166/25 169/21 171/5
171/8 171/10 173/5
mean [6] 51/12 65/12
105/7 147/21 164/13
172/6
meaning [1] 13/23
meaningful [1]
113/10
means [3] 20/6 54/10
159/9
meant [6] 65/22
66/21 66/24 90/1
133/23 159/15
meantime [1] 136/24
Meanwhile [1] 94/19
media [4] 56/10 72/5
72/7 142/19
Mediation [1] 138/19
meet [4] 21/4 103/11
106/5 124/8
meeting [20] 26/9
28/11 28/12 28/15
28/16 42/24 43/17
44/7 44/15 48/7 55/5
57/16 57/18 59/2
91/12 91/21 117/18
121/18 130/22 131/18)
meetings [8] 14/9
26/11 28/8 28/13
38/24 38/25 113/17
141/16
member [31] 2/6 2/8
4/16 18/20 43/3 43/7
53/21 55/9 58/1 61/5
61/8 61/9 61/13 64/25
65/24 66/4 69/12
69/21 70/9 70/23 71/5)
71/6 71/9 75/20 75/22
87/24 88/1 122/2
161/7 162/11 172/19
members [82] 6/5
10/1 10/2 10/24 11/7
11/8 12/16 12/18
12/18 17/18 17/25
18/21 21/19 22/7
25/22 25/24 28/17
35/4 36/15 36/18 40/3
40/4 41/16 48/22 49/2
49/5 49/9 50/11 50/21
51/10 51/12 52/16
52/20 53/8 53/20
55/16 57/6 57/14
57/15 59/21 61/12
61/15 61/17 61/22
62/21 66/1 66/2 72/7
97/12 99/3 99/8 99/12
100/19 103/18 106/13)
109/19 112/18 120/2
120/9 120/19 121/6
121/9 125/25 127/10
128/5 128/13 131/25
135/6 135/8 135/10
144/9 146/25 147/2
151/12 151/19 158/4
159/21 159/22 168/4
168/12 168/19 170/1
members’ [4] 17/6
19/25 20/7 35/12
membership [25]
4INT 24/13 33/17
34/25 38/2 38/3 40/2
41/11 41/12 41/19
52/8 52/20 57/2 69/25
70/6 70/15 70/16
99/23 100/13 160/9
160/16 160/24 161/1
168/9 168/22
Memorandum [2]
24/16 28/21
memory [1] 77/6
mentioned [14]
28/20 48/22 54/17
66/20 92/22 93/12
94/7 101/7 109/18
111/22 116/23 127/5
133/6 170/13
mentioning [2] 68/21
94/18
mentions [5] 74/15
111/14 111/14 111/15)
129/5
merge [4] 32/23
34/23 35/1 160/5
merging [2] 32/25
37/11
meritless [1] 136/10
Merryweather [1]
48/4
mess [5] 107/13
107/19 107/20 107/25)
108/5
message [4] 83/25
112/25 136/8 136/11
messed [1] 47/24
messing [1] 47/21
met [3] 37/18 39/21
154/22
microphone [1]
148/24
mid [2] 8/9 173/5
mid-'90s [2] 8/9
173/5
middle [3] 78/21
136/15 138/22
might [20] 7/20 9/7
19/21 22/5 41/6 54/8
58/10 63/4 71/1 77/6
84/25 85/4 87/2 88/17
91/2 99/2 112/25
134/1 161/14 163/9
Mike [1] 107/17
mile [1] 38/4
million [17] 8/19 8/20
19/19 24/8 24/9 24/10
27/4 27/14 31/14
36/20 36/20 45/12
76/5 85/8 92/16 93/6
169/11
millions [10] 4/25
20/13 31/7 36/16
47/10 52/10 60/11
94/22 153/13 154/17
Milner [1] 69/15
mind [2] 22/18
162/25
minimise [1] 86/13
minister [3] 124/5
124/12 144/7
Minister's [2] 127/20
128/7
minor [1] 62/19
minute [5] 20/11
134/12 145/10 155/1
160/10
minutes [8] 37/2
76/15 80/6 109/16
111/22 130/11 171/8
171/10
misaccounting [1]
83/10
misaligned [1] 103/5
misgivings [2] 62/19
83/14
misguided [1] 107/15]
misinformation [1]
112/10
Misra [1] 74/15
missed [2] 88/17
112/24
missing [6] 36/15
64/17 81/8 81/9 90/14
150/24
mistake [13] 7/3
89/24 90/16 115/12
119/14 133/16 157/6
158/1 158/7 158/8
159/6 159/11 173/22
mistakes [10] 84/14
86/11 86/17 115/17
133/10 133/11 150/17
157/5 172/7 173/7
Mm [1] 79/2
Mm-hm [1] 79/2
model [1] 39/25
modern [1] 78/1
modernisation [1]
31/10
modernise [1] 31/9
moment [9] 54/9
58/17 86/23 91/3
113/15 129/25 140/20}
143/20 153/18
money [64] 14/11
16/21 19/24 20/6 23/3
27/9 30/19 31/18
39/22 41/4 41/17
41/19 46/8 52/18
52/23 74/21 77/12
78/10 78/10 81/6 81/8)
81/9 88/16 90/7 95/6
107/3 121/9 121/23
121/24 122/7 128/16
132/8 132/9 132/23
133/9 134/18 135/6
135/7 140/11 143/4
148/7 150/24 152/1
153/10 153/16 153/16}
154/18 158/5 160/1
163/6 163/8 163/8
163/14 164/23 165/11
166/1 166/2 166/4
168/20 172/8 172/16
172/17 173/3 173/7
monitor [1] 77/25
Montgomery [1]
131/4
month [13] 10/14
19/25 20/6 74/11 81/1
86/24 134/3 142/16
148/14 150/12 153/13
156/3 163/16
monthly [1] 17/6
months [9] 2/14 32/3
32/15 36/14 85/15
95/21 99/14 106/14
120/7
months' [1] 25/15
Moran [4] 135/22
136/16 137/6 137/16
more [49] 10/22 20/3
20/13 22/21 26/7
32/12 33/16 39/4 39/5)
41/24 55/13 57/8
62/10 68/15 72/23
74/23 81/10 81/12
83/3 84/12 85/24
86/10 86/13 86/17
89/22 90/17 96/13
96/18 96/18 109/6
109/7 111/5 121/18
123/6 127/2 127/4
134/19 141/11 147/2
147/18 147/18 147/23}
166/22 166/23 167/1
168/14 168/17 172/1
173/9
morning [15] 1/3 1/5
54/9 91/3 93/9 93/12
93/22 94/7 95/12
105/22 117/20 119/18}
150/22 150/22 174/8
most [19] 14/11
26/10 32/23 73/6 88/2
88/15 89/14 89/18
90/7 114/13 125/15
132/18 133/10 133/17)
135/1 135/25 162/4
163/13 163/14
mostly [2] 5/12
154/14
mother [5] 74/20
74/22 75/3 75/8 81/4
motions [1] 121/7
MOU [9] 28/20 29/2
30/5 38/5 38/14 38/18
38/23 39/14 39/19
MOU/Grant [2] 29/2
30/5
mouth [3] 128/16
154/2 154/3
move [9] 11/24 28/7
32/14 71/23 72/24
124/2 130/20 134/21
135/5
moved [2] 32/11
169/17
moving [8] 3/20 6/6
25/9 102/19 102/19
112/4 130/21 135/18
Moya [1] 28/13
MP [1] 56/12
MPs [4] 26/3 92/6
92/8 144/6
Mr [109] 1/6 1/8 1/11
2/1 3/23 3/25 9/4
11/10 13/6 20/14 22/4)
26/16 27/20 27/22
27/24 39/12 50/3 50/7
52/9 54/17 55/2 61/14
61/14 61/16 68/1
69/20 70/2 70/13
70/21 71/1 74/17
75/15 77/5 79/7 81/4
82/18 83/7 85/10
87/19 88/11 89/3
90/20 91/9 96/15 97/7I
104/11 108/23 110/7
115/19 123/16 125/22!
126/13 128/8 130/5
134/21 136/16 136/16)
137/2 137/6 137/12
137/16 139/9 144/19
145/7 147/4 148/3
148/20 148/25 149/11
149/12 149/13 149/14)
150/8 151/10 152/25
154/25 155/2 155/18
156/13 156/24 157/11
157/13 158/9 158/17
158/18 160/6 160/9
161/3 162/11 162/19
162/25 163/3 163/3
163/5 165/5 165/13
(61) me... - MrO
Mr... [13] 165/15
166/3 166/18 167/17
169/2 169/24 170/11
170/13 171/11 174/9
174/10 175/4 175/6
Mr Bishop [5] 83/7
85/10 87/19 88/11
89/3
MR BLAKE [5] 1/8
27/22 130/5 174/10
175/4
Mr Blake's [1] 27/24
Mr Bradbrook [1]
163/3
Mr Bradbrook's [1]
165/15
Mr Bridgen [1] 128/8
Mr Castleton [8] 3/25
55/2 61/16 69/20 70/2
70/13 70/21 71/1
Mr Castleton's [2]
3/23 61/14
Mr Cockburn [1]
39/12
Mr Colin [4] 162/19
Mr Davies [1] 139/9
Mr Gareth [1] 174/9
Mr Greenhow [3]
144/19 145/7 147/4
Mr Hook [2] 104/11
108/23
Mr Kalia [3] 162/25
163/5 165/13
Mr Kalia's [1] 163/3
Mr McConnell [1]
125/22
Mr Moran [3] 136/16
137/6 137/16
Mr Parmod [1]
162/11
Mr Parsons [4]
115/19 136/16 137/2
137/12
Mr Stein [4] 148/20
148/25 149/11 157/11
Mr Stein's [1] 158/17
Mr Taylor [5] 74/17
75/15 77/5 79/7 82/18
Mr Taylor's [1] 81/4
Mr Thomson [48] 1/6
1/11 2/1 9/4 11/10
13/6 20/14 22/4 26/16}
27/20 50/3 50/7 52/9
54/17 61/14 68/1
90/20 91/9 96/15 97/7
123/16 126/13 134/21
148/3 149/12 149/14
150/8 151/10 152/25
155/2 155/18 156/13
156/24 157/13 158/9
158/18 160/6 160/9
161/3 165/5 166/3
166/18 167/17 169/2
169/24 170/11 170/13)
171/11
Mrs [7] 75/16 89/25
155/11 155/16 155/21
156/7 157/23
Mrs G Taylor [1]
75/16
Mrs O'Dell [5] 155/11
155/16 155/21 156/7
157/23
Mrs Smith [1] 89/25
Ms [8] 30/7 148/21
148/21 161/19 167/14)
167/15 175/8 175/10
Ms Page [1] 148/21
Ms Vennells [1] 30/7
Ms Watt [2] 148/21
167/14
much [35] 1/4 1/5
4/11 1/25 11/6 15/4
22/21 27/2 27/22 28/2
31/18 33/16 33/22
59/6 71/21 72/25 81/8)
81/9 101/16 111/16
111/17 112/10 117/8
122/8 123/3 124/8
130/14 132/4 133/21
152/7 166/10 174/4
174/5 174/11 174/12
mushroom [1]
113/14
must [6] 12/16 19/7
21/7 115/1 153/24
157/8
mutualisation [2]
72/25 122/19
my [100] 1/21 2/15
2/22 3/13 3/15 5/18
6/24 7/6 7/12 10/24
12/24 13/17 15/1 15/7)
15/14 19/5 19/11
22/14 23/11 23/12
26/18 30/2 32/10
33/14 33/17 35/16
41/20 42/3 44/5 46/8
46/17 47/9 48/3 49/6
50/15 53/23 54/25
55/10 55/12 60/6 63/2
64/4 64/18 64/19
66/16 67/22 70/14
74/20 74/22 75/3 75/8)
75/11 77/19 79/17
79/19 80/6 80/7 82/7
89/16 92/22 96/17
98/11 98/17 101/1
101/16 101/21 101/25)
102/1 103/21 108/15
109/8 110/3 110/5
110/13 122/16 122/18)
125/19 126/23 128/3
139/6 139/22 141/17
144/23 145/1 148/9
148/23 151/2 154/2
157/24 160/10 162/10}
164/19 165/23 167/10
167/12 168/18 171/1
171/5 171/16 173/1
myself [7] 25/1 54/25
78/9 80/10 90/6
157/18 169/10
N
name [6] 1/9 43/2
43/5 55/10 85/7
103/21
nameless [1] 75/4
narrative [5] 98/19
101/2 110/6 164/22
171/2
nation's [1] 5/1
national [25] 9/22
21/3 21/7 21/25 37/16
37/18 38/12 39/18
44/15 48/20 50/12
54/19 72/13 75/20
75/22 83/16 91/12
94/20 102/24 117/18
121/13 128/3 150/3
151/9 167/3
nature [1] 139/7
NBSC [1] 84/16
NC [2] 91/18 91/19
nearly [3] 17/11
18/12 19/16
necessarily [3] 52/24
141/4 145/22
necessary [6] 24/18
25/1 28/4 87/12 92/25
165/8
necessity [1] 9/2
need [21] 19/6 32/24
34/19 50/2 84/1 86/13)
91/24 92/21 97/3
102/7 107/8 111/4
120/18 124/11 126/1
130/9 134/21 152/25
155/2 156/16 171/9
needed [11] 2/15
18/23 40/20 40/21
40/22 60/2 134/18
135/10 145/25 165/1
170/2
needs [3] 5/1 113/18
168/5
negative [3] 22/4
136/17 142/23
negotiated [2] 41/5
44/23
negotiating [8] 23/15
38/25 42/11 91/20
91/21 92/1 118/4
148/7
negotiation [3] 35/7
40/12 40/18
negotiations [4]
29/22 29/25 41/3
117/21
Neil [1] 87/7
Neill [1] 112/14
network [54] 5/4 7/3
8/24 9/2 9/18 10/5
11/2 14/7 19/17 25/2
25/13 25/17 25/19
26/12 28/19 29/6 29/9)
29/10 29/18 29/20
29/21 31/1 31/3 31/4
31/11 31/23 31/24
34/4 40/21 41/22 42/1
42/1 42/2 47/15 60/3
63/6 63/8 83/17 101/7,
102/4 118/20 120/16
120/23 125/21 129/8
139/24 159/21 163/19)
163/19 163/20 163/20}
168/16 168/17 169/11
neutral [1] 137/5
never [41] 4/16 6/24
10/1 10/9 10/25 18/16}
19/5 19/10 21/18
35/21 35/22 39/8
40/12 42/2 42/4 42/5
49/19 52/8 53/21
57/25 61/5 61/8 64/25
69/11 71/9 92/12
103/10 106/4 111/24
111/25 127/1 129/15
132/4 146/20 148/10
152/19 152/20 154/1
154/1 169/8 169/8
new [10] 32/4 32/6
32/17 36/11 39/24
84/4 87/24 89/17
115/24 151/1
news [7] 6/25 7/13
74/13 79/7 85/2 85/23
94/13
newsagent [1]
150/14
Newsagents [4]
37/17 37/19 38/12
39/18
next [14] 10/17 29/12)
34/14 62/13 87/21
88/20 90/5 105/14
120/7 120/22 126/5
135/5 142/16 171/7
NFRN [2] 38/7 38/19
NFSP [103] 2/6 3/13
5/18 6/11 11/22 13/13}
14/3 15/17 17/6 17/20)
18/6 18/12 18/13 19/3}
19/4 21/13 22/5 24/3
24/4 24/15 24/18 25/2,
28/17 29/1 29/17
30/13 30/23 31/13
31/19 32/20 32/22
34/16 34/25 35/8
35/10 35/25 39/23
48/23 55/9 56/6 56/16)
57/1 57/8 57/21 73/14,
74/5 76/11 83/12 87/8
87/13 92/14 93/5
94/25 99/9 103/5
103/9 105/14 105/22
105/25 106/3 106/12
109/6 112/16 113/13
116/22 119/21 119/23
120/15 120/21 121/2
122/15 126/7 128/10
131/4 132/3 136/6
136/8 136/9 136/22
136/23 137/9 137/19
137/20 137/24 143/10
143/23 144/6 144/12
145/25 159/14 159/16
159/17 160/7 160/16
161/20 162/6 162/11
162/12 162/22 166/5
167/6 167/17 167/25
NFSP's [12] 12/3
13/22 15/21 17/22
31/15 42/9 105/24
106/22 120/3 120/18
132/12 144/3
NFSP00000256 [1]
68/19
NFSP00000347 [1]
54/16
NFSP00000473 [1]
91/11
NFSP00000491 [1]
46/21
NFSP00000500 [1]
130/20
NFSP00000517 [1]
44/7
NFSP00000536 [1]
117/18
NFSPO00000555 [1]
42/19
NFSP00000680 [1]
102/19
NFSP00000681 [1]
104/3
NFSP00000682 [1]
105/12
NFSP00000951 [1]
11/23
NFSP00000957 [1]
36/23
NFSP00000977 [1]
71124
NFSP00001079 [1]
33/20
NFSP00001314 [1]
74/9
NFSP00001385 [1]
112/5
NFSP00001464 [1]
20/18
nice [3] 13/6 162/9
170/25
Nick [5] 23/18 23/20
23/22 97/19 137/7
night [5] 14/9 19/11
(62) Mr... - nightO
N
night... [3] 68/25
133/24 134/5
night's [1] 125/9
nine [2] 142/10
147/25
no [89] 4/15 4/16
4/18 7/23 8/24 9/10
10/18 11/19 11/21
16/24 22/8 23/5 32/22)
33/3 33/15 33/17
40/11 45/18 46/6 51/5)
52/24 53/18 53/20
68/5 70/15 72/15
73/15 77/21 77/21
77/22 79/21 80/8 80/8
80/22 84/17 85/1
85/11 87/4 92/21
92/22 94/9 94/25
96/17 96/23 101/5
104/1 104/16 108/2
108/15 109/21 110/4
111/20 113/14 114/3
118/11 120/6 121/3
121/23 126/11 129/22)
130/10 133/25 136/20
137/14 137/20 138/1
139/7 139/21 144/10
147/9 149/19 150/9
152/21 153/9 154/1
158/24 160/15 163/12)
164/8 164/8 164/10
166/19 167/9 168/21
169/1 172/6 173/6
173/13 173/15
nobody [1] 154/21
Noel [1] 48/16
noise [1] 66/13
non [7] 49/5 61/8
61/13 65/24 66/2 71/6
75/8
non-existent [1] 75/8
non-members [2]
49/5 66/2
none [3] 111/21
134/8 144/14
nonetheless [3]
103/12 106/6 114/10
nonsense [6] 7/17
21/23 129/2 149/19
152/24 161/16
noon [1] 91/6
nor [1] 144/11
normal [3] 17/9
100/8 130/6
Norman [3] 161/20
161/22 162/14
north [1] 165/4
Northern [1] 37/6
not [210]
note [6] 24/25 69/19
69/23 83/8 116/22
137/18
noted [1] 85/23
172/24
nothing [18] 20/8
20/9 41/10 42/13 46/4
48/1 61/12 112/3
117/25 119/11 129/3
129/5 133/14 146/25
173/18
notice [3] 34/22 89/1
90/13
noticed [1] 100/6
notifying [1] 13/20
November [5] 68/23
69/24 155/14 155/15
156/2
November 2004 [1]
68/23
now [98] 5/12 11/5
12/25 15/3 18/8 18/18
20/23 24/20 25/4 28/7
29/1 29/23 32/24 35/4
36/23 38/16 41/2
43/16 44/7 46/22 48/8
50/25 52/5 53/23
54/18 55/3 56/8 56/9
59/23 61/1 67/19 70/7
70/24 71/23 76/15
77/24 83/3 84/12
85/16 85/24 86/25
88/23 89/1 90/12
93/10 93/11 94/18
97/5 102/14 102/19
103/6 104/3 106/18
110/3 117/6 117/16
123/3 123/17 123/24
123/25 124/2 124/17
125/20 126/13 127/2
130/20 131/2 134/25
135/18 137/1 138/14
138/22 144/10 145/17)
146/22 148/12 148/25)
151/4 152/6 152/25
153/11 154/19 154/20)
155/7 155/17 156/4
157/8 158/9 158/12
158/13 158/16 159/10)
161/3 161/23 162/25
170/13 171/13 171/13)
nowhere [1] 52/4
Npower [4] 47/1 47/3
47/4 47/6
nuance [5] 98/16
147/18 164/20 166/22)
172/1
nuanced [5] 95/16
96/18 96/18 147/23
173/10
number [27] 1/14 3/7
5/5 6/4 11/7 24/2
27/14 29/2 38/22
50/18 50/19 58/13
notes [3] 59/5 155/12
149/25 169/23 173/17,
notify [2] 66/6 100/19
99/14 110/11 114/25
116/2 126/14 146/1
158/9 170/14
number 1 [1] 11/7
number 4 [1] 24/2
numbers [2] 25/4
26/19
numerous [9] 39/2
56/6 60/22 65/9 65/10)
65/14 109/18 167/22
171/16
[e)
O'Dell [6] 155/8
155/11 155/16 155/21
156/7 157/23
obtain [1] 100/4
obvious [5] 75/9
88/13 89/22 136/22
153/15
obviously [20] 16/3
38/2 49/5 59/5 68/7
83/3 89/16 89/21
96/14 97/23 100/24
101/25 107/22 116/4
119/3 123/4 140/11
145/21 164/21 172/17!
occasion [3] 9/11
84/9 87/1
occasional [1] 85/22
occasionally [1]
149/10
occasions [7] 10/4
60/23 65/14 109/18
132/1 170/14 171/16
occur [5] 31/16 84/6
91/25 93/10 114/18
occurred [2] 60/18
83/19
occurring [2] 48/15
148/6
occurs [1] 86/16
October [3] 57/19
120/6 120/20
odd [3] 66/18 67/11
68/2
off [21] 5/14 10/3
19/24 20/5 21/22
21/25 22/24 22/25
24/12 24/14 26/14
35/22 39/7 71/25
79/13 90/4 142/20
142/24 148/24 157/8
168/13
offer [1] 99/8
office [320]
Office's [11] 46/1
82/16 104/9 127/23
129/15 132/24 136/3
138/17 144/3 147/16
148/5
officer [13] 2/2 12/12
66/25 67/8 76/19 83/9
114/25 115/21 115/22
12/21 23/9 54/22
71/17 89/15 105/16
113/4 120/4 130/24
140/6 144/25
officers [9] 15/12
62/18 65/1 66/6
112/19 112/20 112/21
145/18 169/5
offices [7] 7/5 44/22
49/5 76/6 84/19 85/24
120/15
official [2] 14/18
56/19
officials [3] 15/12
23/2 23/19
often [3] 86/17 88/6
144/18
Oh [3] 16/24 98/24
162/3
okay [11] 16/10 28/5
28/6 59/13 68/18
104/2 110/21 155/6
155/13 155/20 156/15)
old [29] 74/20 81/4
98/19 110/2 112/1
112/2 112/3 129/6
129/17 129/20 133/5
133/7 133/12 133/22
133/25 149/22 149/23}
149/24 150/7 151/1
151/5 151/6 152/3
152/13 153/5 154/16
154/16 162/9 165/3
older [1] 162/4
on [289]
once [11] 6/23 31/23
61/24 86/16 97/14
121/1 134/3 134/3
144/9 145/5 170/15
one [62] 4/16 12/18
13/10 19/22 25/14
26/6 30/7 30/13 30/15
33/10 34/12 37/20
38/22 39/23 45/12
47/2 50/17 52/24
56/12 58/16 62/3 63/6
70/22 76/22 77/22
79/21 84/9 86/7 88/24
89/23 90/21 106/23
109/9 113/14 116/8
118/6 118/21 118/25
118/25 119/1 119/1
119/9 121/19 126/6
127/4 129/12 131/25
133/20 133/25 139/22)
140/1 140/6 149/9
150/9 160/11 161/11
162/10 165/12 166/12}
169/6 173/6 173/19
one-sided [1] 131/25
one-tenth [1] 26/6
ones [3] 41/23
116/20 153/4
ongoing [2] 127/23
152/5
Online [1] 151/12
only [32] 2/23 3/7
3/18 6/20 7/4 26/6
31/16 38/22 40/13
47/3 49/1 49/6 58/1
60/8 63/6 63/16 76/7
83/24 87/24 92/11
99/20 99/25 100/17
115/10 115/21 126/22)
130/10 152/23 164/1
164/2 164/11 169/17
onto [6] 64/19 71/8
102/19 105/23 145/10)
157/8
onus [1] 154/6
onwards [1] 9/1
open [9] 10/12 11/2
44/22 112/14 113/1
113/6 122/25 141/20
171/12
opened [1] 93/14
opening [2] 100/13
105/19
operate [1] 44/1
operated [1] 22/11
operating [4] 4/21
4/23 96/10 96/10
operation [1] 61/10
operator [1] 32/11
operators [3] 24/5
39/25 121/1
opinion [7] 55/24
101/16 108/15 126/23}
133/17 135/1 135/4
opportunities [1]
56/4
opportunity [2] 99/9
100/12
opposite [1] 122/22
opposition [1]
146/20
option [8] 37/9 37/19
38/4 38/13 38/13 39/5I
39/15 120/14
options [6] 32/22
37/8 37/10 38/22
39/20 39/20
or [122] 8/19 9/14
10/16 10/17 10/21
10/23 12/1 12/8 12/23
13/11 15/12 15/12
16/11 16/13 16/19
16/20 18/18 19/15
19/19 20/6 23/6 24/22
26/9 26/22 26/25
27/15 29/13 31/9 33/9
38/12 38/19 41/14
41/15 45/2 45/14 51/8)
51/12 51/24 57/7 60/4
64/16 65/7 66/10 67/7
68/21 70/17 70/19
75/2 75/2 77/12 78/8
78/24 79/3 79/8 80/9
(63) night... - orO
[e)
or... [67] 80/12 80/25
82/25 83/1 83/21 84/9
86/18 88/16 89/10
89/11 89/11 90/2 90/9
90/16 94/1 95/12
96/12 100/6 107/25
109/5 113/18 114/17
119/6 119/13 122/6
128/15 128/15 129/4
130/9 130/10 131/16
133/12 134/3 134/7
135/14 141/9 142/10
143/6 147/25 148/9
150/13 151/25 152/1
152/3 152/5 152/12
153/10 156/23 156/24}
157/18 158/2 158/7
159/8 159/25 160/2
160/5 160/5 160/8
161/23 165/7 165/9
171/10 171/25 172/7
172/8 172/14 173/7
oral [2] 171/5 174/5
orally [1] 171/9
order [5] 70/4 75/5
83/23 84/1 97/15
ordering [2] 134/19
153/7
organisation [33]
4/18 18/15 20/8 26/8
34/24 37/15 38/2 38/6
38/14 38/17 40/14
45/10 50/25 52/20
53/11 62/10 65/23
70/15 70/16 73/7 75/5
115/14 115/14 124/7
124/9 135/16 140/9
143/3 160/3 167/17
168/6 168/9 168/22
organisations [1]
173/12
organised [1] 156/21
original [1] 68/24
originally [2] 69/5
89/4
other [24] 8/5 10/22
15/15 15/18 25/3 25/6
27/24 37/10 45/8
45/24 66/12 84/19
93/11 93/14 96/5
104/1 108/17 131/3
145/21 160/14 163/16)
165/15 166/4 166/13
others [6] 46/17
104/11 109/12 109/17
168/5 168/12
ought [1] 129/4
our [97] 3/5 6/4 10/1
10/1 10/9 11/7 11/8
12/17 12/18 14/8
14/12 14/25 15/11
17/18 19/22 19/25
21/19 22/18 22/23
23/2 23/2 23/7 24/12
25/21 25/24 33/16
34/6 34/13 36/15
36/18 37/15 40/23
41/12 41/16 41/23
43/20 45/16 49/2 49/9)
51/12 54/9 55/4 55/19
55/24 56/2 56/14
56/15 57/5 59/19 61/7,
61/12 66/17 71/10
83/19 84/3 84/5 84/5
84/12 84/22 85/13
85/21 86/15 91/3 94/2
103/18 107/15 108/5
109/6 109/7 109/18
113/9 113/15 113/18
114/21 115/14 116/15)
116/19 123/1 123/1
125/8 125/20 126/9
130/1 130/5 136/19
137/10 140/3 142/19
144/23 146/13 146/24)
149/14 150/13 151/12)
160/3 160/13 168/19
ourselves [1] 99/16
out [58] 3/17 5/4 6/18
14/8 18/11 19/10
19/24 23/3 23/24 29/8)
36/13 37/4 37/21
44/25 50/1 52/1 52/17
63/14 63/15 64/14
67/23 70/12 76/5
84/10 84/13 85/8
88/14 90/12 93/25
93/25 94/1 94/22
98/13 99/1 101/18
104/9 113/7 114/13
115/18 115/22 126/4
127/17 128/9 129/10
134/1 134/7 140/4
151/12 155/9 159/22
160/1 163/2 163/7
163/21 164/17 171/17)
172/17 173/21
outcome [3] 9/16
34/16 68/12
outlets [1] 94/23
outrageous [1]
172/11
outspoken [1] 32/5
over [82] 2/22 3/8
3/12 3/15 3/22 4/19
5/2 5/7 5/9 5/23 5/24
6/4 6/15 6/17 7/6 8/11
10/21 11/25 21/16
25/7 27/13 36/19
36/20 41/14 42/25
44/8 46/22 47/14
47/14 48/11 48/17
49/1 51/10 52/9 55/6
57/16 57/19 59/17
60/15 60/19 62/24
65/4 66/10 71/10
74/11 74/17 75/9 76/5
76/6 78/21 79/10
79/18 83/25 84/2
86/11 88/24 91/23
101/2 113/20 115/15
120/11 120/24 126/5
128/13 128/18 130/22
130/23 130/25 132/15}
133/5 136/21 137/21
143/17 143/25 144/23
145/12 148/15 153/7
158/3 162/13 166/18
170/9
overage [2] 90/17
90/18
overages [4] 81/17
89/21 89/22 90/25
overinflating [2]
132/19 133/18
overload [1] 47/20
overnight [1] 134/2
overwhelming [1]
129/9
overwhelmingly [1]
114/25
owed [1] 5/11
own [23] 9/5 10/6
10/8 10/8 19/2 39/15
52/14 55/10 55/12
56/20 64/2 74/20 75/1
77/20 81/6 82/16 84/5
85/13 90/3 95/6
114/21 160/9 168/4
owned [4] 62/2 84/23
153/20 159/2
owners [3] 146/18
150/13 154/14
P
PA [3] 48/3 87/6
124/4
pack [1] 93/19
packets [1] 11/4
page [112] 1/17 1/18
3/2 3/2 3/12 3/20 3/21
3/21 3/22 4/12 4/19
4/20 5/2 5/9 5/23 6/10
6/15 6/15 7/9 23/14
30/3 37/3 43/1 43/10
44/9 44/9 46/22 46/23
46/24 47/14 47/16
48/11 48/17 51/18
51/18 55/6 57/17
57/20 60/19 68/20
69/13 69/22 69/23
70/1 73/13 74/10
74/11 74/11 74/17
75/24 75/25 75/25
77/6 78/19 78/19
78/21 79/10 81/20
82/17 82/21 83/6 83/6
85/6 85/9 85/10 85/17
85/18 87/5 87/19
91/13 91/15 94/17
97/5 106/19 108/22
108/23 110/15 110/15}
113/20 117/20 120/11
120/24 124/1 125/5
125/6 125/11 125/11
125/23 126/5 126/5
130/22 130/23 131/2
135/19 135/20 136/15]
136/16 137/12 137/16
140/14 141/10 142/17]
143/9 143/17 144/20
146/7 146/7 148/21
155/4 155/5 161/19
175/8
page 1 [7] 82/17
87/19 106/19 110/15
110/15 146/7 146/7
page 10 [2] 46/23
46/24
page 11 [1] 117/20
page 12 [2] 3/20 3/21
page 13 [2] 3/21
47/16
page 15 [2] 4/12 37/3
page 2 [13] 23/14
51/18 57/17 75/25
77/6 78/21 85/17 87/5
108/22 124/1 125/23
137/12 143/9
Page 20 [1] 44/9
page 21 [1] 6/10
page 22 [2] 6/15
131/2
page 25 [1] 7/9
page 3 [12] 69/22
74/10 74/11 75/24
75/25 78/19 78/19
85/18 125/11 125/11
155/4 155/5
page 31 [1] 1/18
page 4 [7] 70/1 85/9
85/10 125/5 125/6
136/15 136/16
page 5 [7] 82/21 83/6
85/6 91/13 130/23
135/19 135/20
page 6 [1] 83/6
page 7 [1] 69/13
page 8 [2] 43/10
68/20
page 9 [3] 3/2 3/2
91/15
paid [12] 4/16 8/25
14/12 16/25 20/7
31/19 40/2 75/19
75/21 82/7 90/12
110/4
pain [1] 43/25
painted [1] 7/1
paired [1] 120/19
Panorama [12] 7/13
109/1 109/14 109/22
110/21 110/25 125/6
126/4 126/16 127/9
128/23 143/16
paper [2] 40/16 74/25)
paperwork [2] 83/4
119/20
para [1] 136/2
paragraph [21] 2/21
3/1 3/20 3/22 4/12
4/19 5/2 5/9 5/23 6/10
6/15 6/22 7/9 29/12
33/24 34/17 73/13
126/6 136/5 138/21
138/22
Paragraph 1 [1] 2/21
paragraph 25 [1] 3/1
paragraph 33 [1]
3/20
paragraph 37 [1]
4/12
Paragraph 38 [1]
4/19
Paragraph 39 [1] 5/2
Paragraph 45 [1] 5/9
paragraph 49 [1]
5/23
Paragraph 54 [1]
6/10
Paragraph 59 [1]
6/15
Paragraph 60 [1]
6/22
paragraph 67 [1] 7/9
paragraphs [2]
143/18 143/24
parameters [1] 29/8
parcels [2] 6/3
172/17
Park [1] 118/8
Parmod [1] 162/11
Parsons [8] 114/15
115/7 115/19 117/14
135/20 136/16 137/2
137/12
part [23] 5/15 16/5
17/24 21/20 25/22
29/19 30/25 31/17
32/7 33/1 40/7 55/17
65/6 81/15 100/19
101/19 103/7 115/21
118/24 129/14 147/8
152/21 168/13
particular [19] 3/9
7/8 7/14 32/3 40/16
44/19 44/22 63/4
66/13 78/14 102/2
106/23 121/15 138/24I
145/19 147/5 148/16
163/18 170/23
particularly [9] 18/16
25/9 38/6 40/10 65/15]
73/3 95/13 147/7
151/23
parties [1] 99/14
Party [1] 38/14
passages [3] 2/19
(64) or... - passagesO
Pp
passages... [2] 7/19
9/6
passed [7] 24/15
69/18 111/1 160/21
160/23 160/25 161/1
Passport [1] 6/3
past [5] 54/25 59/17
73/2 116/10 144/9
Paul [6] 72/2 74/12
76/2 102/21 103/2
104/6
Paula [23] 25/1 28/12
28/13 29/24 31/22
65/14 66/11 78/14
78/22 78/23 87/17
92/6 97/20 107/10
109/11 109/16 118/17)
125/18 141/7 141/19
146/23 149/16 168/2
Paula's [3] 35/16
35/23 35/24
pause [2] 51/16
114/23
pausing [4] 14/5
24/20 37/8 58/8
pay [14] 14/18 15/5
15/8 30/19 31/14
43/11 121/22 153/24
157/1 157/2 157/22
163/8 163/15 165/2
paying [3] 90/5
152/17 160/14
payment [10] 24/7
24/8 24/9 24/10 30/12
32/21 34/22 44/23
46/9 163/15
payments [4] 18/11
29/17 36/16 44/2
PayPoint [1] 47/4
pays [1] 15/9
pdf [1] 97/9
pencil [1] 133/8
pension [2] 64/16
89/25
pensioner [1] 90/9
pensions [2] 133/8
169/13
penultimate [1]
136/2
people [114] 2/22
3/16 5/24 6/17 8/21
9/5 9/18 10/2 10/9
10/11 13/5 25/9 25/25)
26/7 31/6 31/8 33/12
35/18 36/13 36/15
39/4 43/24 44/1 46/7
46/14 46/16 46/17
46/19 47/6 49/1 49/8
50/20 53/22 62/11
63/25 64/14 64/18
65/16 65/18 65/23
66/12 68/16 76/7
76/20 77/23 78/24
79/3 79/8 80/13 92/8
93/17 99/18 105/18
109/19 112/1 112/2
114/25 115/13 115/19)
118/14 118/22 121/22)
123/7 123/7 123/9
123/13 126/23 126/24}
126/25 129/17 129/18)
132/18 132/22 133/17)
133/24 134/11 134/14)
134/14 135/2 141/23
142/7 142/11 142/21
142/24 145/20 145/21
146/5 147/7 147/7
147/19 147/20 149/23}
149/24 150/7 150/18
151/5 152/3 152/10
156/25 157/4 157/5
159/2 159/24 163/12
163/18 165/2 165/20
166/4 167/23 170/9
171/19 172/4 173/16
173/22
people's [1] 114/13
per [13] 10/4 15/22
49/2 49/6 49/8 50/10
50/14 50/20 138/10
138/12 141/12 142/14)
173/23
per annum [1] 15/22
percentage [6] 3/18
5/21 64/21 94/11
170/6 173/22
perception [1] 60/9
performance [3]
75/18 141/18 141/22
performing [1] 56/1
perhaps [12] 33/19
33/20 63/12 68/22
82/14 116/20 116/23
130/4 136/12 149/12
163/24 166/4
period [16] 6/4 8/12
28/9 33/8 34/22 35/9
35/10 42/8 49/1 51/10
84/3 86/21 88/4 88/20
128/18 130/9
periods [2] 83/19
119/16
permission [2] 50/2
68/12
permit [1] 28/1
person [4] 56/16
63/4 87/3 162/5
personal [4] 19/2
55/12 57/14 130/7
personally [2] 77/16
135/1
personnel [1] 75/4
perspective [1]
31/15
pertaining [1] 44/19
Peter [2] 8/8 131/4
Philip [5] 22/15 22/15]
22/18 121/19 121/21
phone [4] 71/1 79/22
118/24 150/22
phoning [1] 156/7
phrase [1] 128/16
physically [1] 45/3
picked [4] 79/21
picture [4] 52/3
109/24 109/25 112/12
pinhead [1] 125/2
pinpoint [1] 77/15
PINs [4] 43/23 44/4
44/20 46/6
place [25] 10/25 13/4
17/8 20/2 21/18 23/1
44/3 49/1 54/6 60/17
63/18 63/21 64/10
64/11 67/21 72/10
91/24 92/9 94/9 95/19
99/25 119/6 136/3
145/12 158/13
placed [2] 55/3
105/21
placing [1] 82/2
plain [1] 171/3
plan [1] 29/10
planned [1] 137/7
planning [4] 2/13
2/13 86/14 139/12
playing [1] 38/7
please [102] 1/9 2/18
3/1 3/12 3/20 3/21
4/19 5/9 5/23 20/18
20/18 24/2 24/25
28/19 29/24 34/12
34/13 35/3 36/23 37/2
37/4 42/18 43/10 44/8
46/23 46/24 47/14
48/11 48/17 54/12
54/23 60/19 68/19
68/20 69/13 70/1
71/23 74/9 74/10
74/11 75/10 75/24
78/20 80/2 80/17
81/20 82/17 82/20
83/6 85/6 85/10 85/21
87/5 91/4 91/11 91/13
91/15 94/12 97/4
97/17 100/3 104/3
105/12 105/19 105/21
106/18 106/20 108/21
108/22 109/13 110/15}
110/16 112/5 112/24
113/20 117/20 120/12
120/24 124/3 125/3
125/5 125/11 125/22
127/6 130/20 130/23
132/15 135/18 135/19!
135/22 135/24 136/15}
137/16 142/16 142/17]
143/8 143/9 154/2
155/3 155/4 155/5
167/14
pleased [3] 35/6
85/11 107/9
plus [1] 36/20
pm [4] 91/8 130/15
130/17 174/13
point [39] 20/20 25/4
39/2 40/16 43/21 47/1
61/20 62/13 75/19
96/21 98/7 101/19
117/15 12115 124/22
135/5 143/1 143/10
146/13 155/9 157/4
159/5 162/5 163/1
168/18 169/15 170/3
points [9] 25/3 30/7
32/19 92/18 93/1
120/17 136/1 170/19
174/10
POL00004484 [1]
23/14
POL00004486 [1]
94/12
POL00041564 [1]
48/8
POL00108106 [1]
82/20
POL00143243 [1]
78/18
POL00143305 [1]
81/19
POL00152986 [1]
125/3
POL00162362 [1]
138/14
POL00162628 [1]
143/8
POL00173773 [1]
108/22
POL00184392 [1]
97/4
POL00184393 [1]
99/6
POL00189165 [1]
155/4
POL00228278 [1]
142/16
POL00248962 [1]
135/18
POL00314729 [1]
139/9
POL00315623 [1]
140/13
POL00386638 [1]
29/23
POL00424024 [1]
28/7
policy [15] 62/25
63/10 63/10 63/12
63/13 63/14 63/16
92/24 113/13 131/4
132/12 132/14 135/16
27/21 32/3 33/11 34/2
47/9 47/16 50/7 58/16
79/9 83/24 86/23 93/3}
167/7 169/8
popular [1] 47/19
position [27] 29/5
29/19 30/23 31/18
34/14 34/18 37/25
67/3 67/13 92/20
132/3 144/4 145/13
145/14 145/15 147/10)
147/15 150/6 150/9
153/3 160/10 163/17
167/10 167/10 169/8
169/17 169/19
position/Next [1]
34/14
possibility [5] 22/6
22/7 36/2 46/1 136/25
possible [6] 66/14
66/14 68/9 86/2 97/16)
163/22
possibly [2] 65/19
120/25
post [318]
postage [1] 118/7
postal [3] 2/2 70/4
152/15
postman [1] 64/8
postman's [1] 172/15}
postmaster [10]
48/16 51/3 81/11
81/16 119/1 124/18
145/20 157/7 157/14
162/25
postmaster's [1]
50/2
postmasters [41]
12/9 25/15 27/8 33/7
39/3 39/7 44/21 48/19)
49/16 49/17 55/17
56/21 63/17 64/5 64/7
68/10 72/25 89/20
90/24 94/4 94/6
106/24 115/11 125/15}
127/12 127/15 133/2
133/11 134/10 143/3
146/16 150/15 150/16
151/25 152/9 152/10
154/22 156/19 158/4
172/4 173/2
postmasters' [3]
11/4 49/3 115/23
postmen [2] 152/6
154/15
postmistress [4]
15/2 118/25 152/13
155/23
potential [6] 23/24
81/12 81/24 158/11
159/8 159/8
potentially [2] 81/22
115/19
pounds [14] 3/18 6/2
6/19 7/24 20/13 31/7
36/16 52/6 119/16
148/13 150/11 153/13}
(65) passages... - poundsO
Pp
pounds... [2] 154/18
156/11
powerful [1] 136/8
PR [2] 102/22 102/23
practical [1] 57/5
practice [1] 86/12
pre [2] 12/23 153/12
pre-fund [1] 153/12
pre-judged [1] 12/23
precarious [1] 42/10
predecessor [1]
54/25
preferred [2] 35/24
38/13
Premier [1] 45/2
preparing [1] 56/10
prescient [1] 117/5
presence [1] 165/15
present [11] 5/13
24/12 33/6 43/3 43/5
44/9 44/15 46/23
119/23 142/20 144/9
presented [3] 37/8
103/10 106/4
presenting [3] 38/23
39/17 39/19
press [12] 9/25 52/25)
53/14 53/16 59/17
86/20 93/25 97/15
114/1 114/13 127/6
140/6
pressure [1] 92/5
pretty [5] 95/7 141/3
142/14 164/3 166/10
prevent [1] 118/19
previous [6] 10/3
58/10 60/21 63/1
85/21 144/19
previously [6] 5/24
6/11 6/17 74/18 81/4
95/4
price [1] 34/16
primary [2] 103/12
106/5
Prime [3] 127/20
128/7 144/7
principle [3] 32/20
35/15 36/7
printed [2] 77/16
88/11
prior [2] 29/17
104/24
prison [5] 56/22 64/2
74/16 165/14 172/5
private [4] 6/13
154/12 154/13 154/16)
privately [3] 29/14
142/21 142/24
privileged [1] 137/5
probably [21] 2/14
10/16 20/2 33/15
40/18 41/15 63/5
67/17 81/13 94/9
95/11 105/6 115/23
117/8 117/9 117/15
123/3 126/25 142/10
157/3 173/23
problem [26] 33/15
45/14 55/11 55/22
56/25 57/13 66/4
67/10 68/6 69/5 76/16
77/15 77/20 80/2
86/16 87/22 88/9
114/16 115/3 118/11
119/10 126/9 144/11
157/15 164/18 171/16)
problem' [1] 86/9
problems [42] 2/24
3/8 3/9 3/19 4/23 5/5
55/19 56/4 61/18
63/17 64/1 65/3 69/16
73/20 73/22 80/17
83/1 91/23 95/5 95/24)
96/2 96/24 99/21
100/6 100/9 100/11
110/1 112/1 114/3
114/18 116/11 127/13)
127/16 129/5 129/22
146/16 149/22 152/22)
152/23 159/24 172/3
172/12
proceedings [1]
174/7
process [3] 24/12
103/22 136/1
processed [1] 5/7
producer [1] 108/25
product [2] 17/15
17/15
products [3] 15/19
16/6 17/17
professional [1]
123/8
programme [21] 7/12)
7/13 19/17 56/8 56/10)
79/5 82/24 109/2
109/5 109/14 125/6
125/9 125/14 126/4
126/16 127/9 127/11
127/18 128/23 143/16)
143/21
programmer [1]
144/6
programmes [12]
41/12 41/21 52/21
109/23 129/4 129/10
134/16 143/14 160/2
160/2 165/1 173/14
progress [2] 28/2
155/2
promises [1] 34/23
promote [2] 35/11
124/12
promoting [1] 123/21
prompts [1] 118/6
proof [1] 116/18
proper [1] 116/25
properly [3] 56/1
61/20 62/8
proportion [2] 5/1
6/20
proposal [3] 27/13
28/21 28/22
proposed [2] 29/3
103/8
prosecute [1] 171/20
prosecuted [6] 152/4
152/5 152/19 158/4
163/7 172/11
prosecuting [1]
93/16
prosecutions [5]
64/10 154/12 154/13
154/17 158/13
prospective [2] 35/7
35/12
protect [6] 57/1
57/13 59/19 64/6 64/7
146/14
protected [1] 159/23
protecting [4] 94/5
94/5 152/8 152/8
protection [1] 99/24
protocol [2] 50/1
67/20
protracted [1] 35/7
prove [1] 57/12
proven [1] 65/6
proverbial [1] 38/4
proves [1] 5/21
provide [2] 29/8 57/5
provided [7] 21/5
35/9 52/8 85/7 87/18
116/13 166/11
provides [1] 99/18
providing [2] 76/19
118/4
public [3] 18/20
55/24 60/9
publication [5]
105/25 108/4 108/10
136/19 137/21
publicise [2] 55/20
56/4
publicity [5] 56/15
72/3 111/21 118/19
118/22
published [7] 91/17
97/13 112/23 113/1
118/16 170/17 170/18}
pull [1] 160/13
pulled [1] 32/10
punch [1] 23/8
purchased [1] 10/2
purchasing [1] 84/8
purely [2] 27/12
36/19
purpose [12] 7/2
7/16 28/15 28/16
36/24 53/25 76/12
98/8 101/8 102/16
103/12 106/6
push [3] 8/13 16/12
17/18
pushing [3] 16/8
17/16 141/3
put [29] 12/24 13/1
20/1 22/25 28/3 36/14,
36/17 39/7 44/2 67/20)
69/6 84/5 92/5 93/25
93/25 94/1 122/4
126/3 126/7 128/16
133/23 133/24 134/2
152/18 152/20 154/2
154/3 167/19 169/13
putting [1] 154/5
Qo
qualified [1] 12/13
qualify [1] 12/7
quarter [1] 33/16
quarters [3] 33/11
46/24 120/12
queried [1] 127/2
querying [4] 126/8
126/18 126/21 127/1
question [23] 6/24
11/17 13/7 15/8 25/20}
26/19 27/23 28/3
37/16 37/23 57/11
134/25 146/3 146/3
151/2 151/3 157/12
158/17 161/11 161/16}
166/8 168/8 168/10
questioned [11] 1/8
12/3 120/3 120/18
149/13 161/19 167/15)
175/4 175/6 175/8
175/10
questions [21] 11/17
27/24 42/22 58/13
97/17 110/12 127/21
130/11 138/16 148/17)
148/20 149/3 157/5
165/25 167/12 167/18
167/20 168/3 170/21
171/1 172/5
quick [1] 98/3
quicker [1] 32/18
quickly [1] 86/17
quiet [2] 64/6 88/1
quite [40] 23/20
25/17 27/3 27/13 32/5)
37/21 38/4 38/11 39/6)
42/19 44/25 46/17
49/23 53/12 66/2 73/6)
73/11 84/24 87/2 91/1
93/16 96/3 109/22
110/13 117/5 121/21
122/21 123/15 124/2
126/14 126/15 136/7
138/3 141/17 146/4
147/11 159/12 162/4
172/11 173/9
quote [3] 57/2 149/21
159/1
quotes [1] 127/18
R
radio [1] 56/11
raid [1] 172/15
raise [11] 66/5 66/8
71/4 78/6 78/13 99/18}
99/22 100/14 111/19
118/8 168/6
raised [16] 3/9 9/15
21/10 21/11 30/6
43/18 44/13 44/17
45/22 58/12 61/24
65/10 89/3 106/12
123/19 127/20
raises [1] 13/21
raising [6] 27/3 75/22!
79/3 79/25 80/1 95/4
ran [2] 18/21 173/1
rang [1] 157/14
rare [2] 114/18 115/4
rate [1] 15/22
rates [1] 84/8
rather [7] 13/5 82/3
90/4 90/18 121/7
129/2 136/14
rationale [1] 80/21
reach [1] 114/14
reached [4] 32/22
35/7 96/23 97/16
reaching [1] 27/14
reaction [1] 109/15
read [17] 9/7 18/20
29/12 34/1 37/4 57/8
105/4 105/6 105/7
105/10 107/6 110/9
113/25 126/6 143/17
170/15 170/18
reading [3] 87/3
90/22 159/1
real [3] 40/17 120/9
172/2
realise [2] 120/25
160/13
realised [2] 68/6
169/10
reality [16] 18/24
29/15 33/1 34/19
50/16 60/10 65/25
70/15 89/20 90/17
122/25 132/22 134/9
160/24 164/22 170/5
really [12] 12/25 15/3
15/4 90/2 112/3
133/25 138/10 139/13}
141/5 145/25 149/25
162/7
rearguard [2] 8/14
8/17
reason [13] 7/6 26/23
26/24 27/17 27/18
27/25 33/7 38/10
(66) pounds... - reasonO
R
reason... [5] 64/20
80/7 81/2 96/2 109/21
reasonable [1]
145/24
reasoning [1] 97/2
reasons [10] 9/19
32/16 36/21 73/2 73/8
TAIT 75/14 89/23
130/7 153/15
reassurance [1]
61/22
reassured [4] 103/12
105/2 106/6 114/10
rebuild [2] 139/2
139/5
rebuttal [1] 145/7
recall [32] 4/14 12/2
13/14 14/7 16/20
28/12 43/17 43/20
44/18 58/8 58/17
62/23 65/9 77/3 77/3
78/7 79/6 81/8 82/21
83/3 87/3 87/4 103/20
104/15 104/16 117/12)
137/22 138/10 139/3
139/6 139/8 171/25
recap [1] 103/4
receipt [2] 14/3 15/17)
receive [1] 19/4
received [22] 13/21
14/6 15/23 18/2 19/3
58/4 58/9 79/23 80/12
95/3 97/22 100/23
104/14 104/23 117/10}
119/20 126/7 126/17
126/20 141/13 143/13}
167/22
receiving [4] 16/24
52/10 58/17 104/24
recent [6] 17/23 72/7
76/3 112/17 119/19
143/14
recently [3] 63/19
102/18 170/15
reckon [1] 49/7
recognise [1] 40/17
recognised [3] 13/3
40/12 40/13
recognition [5] 40/7
40/9 40/10 62/21
172/12
recollection [2] 30/1
30/2
records [2] 56/22
116/17
rectified [1] 124/19
rectify [2] 68/11 88/6
red [2] 133/20 134/17
redirect [3] 136/23
137/10 137/20
redundant [1] 122/6
reference [6] 1/14
48/9 48/12 48/16
75/13 91/19
referred [1] 18/9
referring [4] 7/8 7/10
101/14 108/12
refers [2] 88/25
142/15
reflect [1] 125/14
refuse [1] 138/6
refused [4] 48/21
136/9 166/24 166/25
refuses [2] 155/25
156/4
regard [2] 131/5
131/13
regarding [23] 6/20
39/3 43/14 53/4 54/19)
55/2 62/19 62/22
65/15 74/2 74/18 76/3
81/23 110/1 111/21
112/17 114/5 121/15
135/11 135/25 137/23)
154/7 173/11
regardless [3]
153/24 154/1 159/5
regards [1] 23/16
Regional [1] 84/17
regular [5] 23/19
106/23 123/14 132/1
172/20
regularly [3] 17/21
82/2 82/7
reimburse [1] 107/2
reinforcing [1] 94/1
reinstated [1] 159/25
Reinvention [3]
25/14 42/1 163/19
reiterate [6] 5/18
6/23 39/2 47/8 93/5
170/3
reiterated [3] 95/12
116/6 168/18
rejected [2] 34/6 58/3}
related [4] 15/24 29/6
83/21 92/19
relates [1] 155/7
relating [4] 16/15
37/10 58/5 83/2
relation [13] 18/2
18/6 19/16 51/23 89/8)
118/6 127/12 127/15
138/18 138/24 142/23)
153/3 169/25
Relations [2] 13/24
21/6
relationship [4]
28/17 34/15 138/16
148/4
relationships [2]
140/8 142/19
relatively [2] 11/14
46/10
release [3] 93/25
114/1 127/7
releases [1] 52/25
relevant [1] 70/10
reliability [3] 49/14
72/19 98/2
reliant [1] 27/9
reluctant [1] 60/1
remain [4] 34/15
120/7 126/1 126/2
remains [2] 72/17
73/17
remarkable [1] 93/16
remarks [1] 169/18
remember [6] 13/1
77/4 78/12 78/16
89/12 134/5
Reminded [1] 135/8
reminding [1] 151/13
remittance [2] 88/12
172/24
remming [1] 84/9
remote [6] 3/10 9/14
66/20 89/11 95/14
95/19
removed [3] 21/8
21/13 22/5
remuneration [1]
19/25
reoccurring [1]
77/10
reopened [1] 84/4
repeat [3] 80/10
147/21 171/15
repeatedly [1] 106/12I
repeating [2] 77/8
154/4
replace [1] 100/38
replaced [2] 16/21
54/1
replacing [1] 41/18
reply [1] 125/8
report [43] 35/6
42/24 57/18 86/4 86/8
87/8 87/8 87/12 88/22
88/23 89/1 91/16 92/1
104/8 104/10 104/13
104/14 104/22 104/23}
104/24 105/4 105/9
105/10 105/18 105/20}
106/1 108/3 108/4
108/10 108/13 111/13
113/23 114/4 114/14
116/11 116/23 117/24
118/16 121/11 123/19}
124/21 139/12 171/6
report's [1] 106/17
reported [5] 84/20
118/5 119/19 136/11
141/4
reporting [2] 85/25
86/25
reports [6] 85/2
85/24 99/10 99/13
137/17 156/3
represent [7] 24/4
35/11 40/14 51/12
55/16 57/6 120/15
representations [3]
20/24 20/25 21/1
representative [4]
53/7 125/15 161/20
162/13
representatives [2]
17/21 166/5
represented [5] 13/5
18/21 49/6 104/17
161/6
representing [6]
65/25 66/1 115/13
115/14 120/25 124/7
represents [2]
140/10 143/3
reputation [2] 64/8
94/5
reputations [4]
115/24 116/2 128/1
144/15
request [1] 128/4
requested [1] 65/1
requests [1] 125/18
require [1] 53/14
required [1] 111/7
requirements [1]
13/11
requires [1] 31/13
research [1] 63/11
resending [1] 105/18
resign [1] 125/18
resignation [1]
125/19
resolution [1] 150/23
resolve [2] 46/10
7718
resolved [4] 45/6
49/23 77/23 84/16
resource [1] 53/12
resources [2] 53/14
121/17
respect [8] 33/4 33/5
39/17 56/25 61/22
104/22 134/25 135/11
respectively [1] 18/4
respond [5] 37/22
65/1 113/18 125/16
140/21
responded [1]
105/25
responding [1] 111/5
responds [6] 77/6
125/12 136/16 137/6
137/12 141/1
response [23] 12/1
13/16 13/17 39/12
75/25 77/5 79/10
82/18 82/19 85/7 87/6
87/19 88/18 101/23
104/9 110/23 113/23
116/19 128/7 137/19
143/14 144/19 146/11
responsibilities [1]
2417
responsibility [4]
55/15 82/4 135/9
157/17
responsible [4]
90/24 131/14 150/19
156/19
restructuring [7]
41/12 41/21 134/15
139/24 160/2 163/19
165/1
result [7] 26/13 72/7
107/1 116/15 126/11
131/7 157/15
resulting [2] 75/23
7710
resume [3] 54/11
54/12 174/8
retail [14] 18/15 19/9
22/12 25/24 25/25
26/1 26/7 36/12 36/13}
37/16 37/19 38/12
39/18 71/8
retain [1] 19/23
retaliation [1] 100/16
retired [1] 33/5
returned [1] 29/1
returning [1] 70/4
reversal [3] 76/22
76/23 77/4
reversals [6] 3/10
9/14 49/19 72/22
89/11 89/11
review [11] 30/12
76/13 79/17 80/19
83/9 85/3 92/4 92/13
92/20 92/21 93/23
reviewed [2] 144/14
146/2
reviewing [1] 92/11
revisit [2] 63/13
63/14
revisiting [1] 63/16
rewarded [1] 147/2
Richards [2] 112/6
113/3
rid [1] 31/25
ridden [1] 60/1
riding [1] 166/18
right [54] 2/2 12/10
15/25 16/1 25/19 28/1
30/20 31/3 31/20
34/13 34/16 35/15
36/25 37/11 38/16
39/25 43/3 43/4 50/2
51/14 58/15 68/8 73/2
102/14 128/4 130/12
130/12 134/25 148/22)
149/2 151/2 151/17
155/5 155/13 156/6
157/25 159/21 159/23)
161/10 161/12 161/25)
162/5 162/10 162/16
(67) reason... - rightO
R
163/23 163/24 164/2
171/22 172/9 174/3
right-hand [2] 34/13
43/4
rights [3] 24/17
risks [1] 86/14
RITCHIE [3] 1/7 1/10
175/2
robust [57] 3/4 3/14
4/1 4/23 5/19 5/22
6/12 8/5 8/6 9/12
10/15 44/13 44/17
45/22 51/5 53/3 55/3
73/17 76/12 77/9
87/10 92/21 93/10
93/20 95/18 96/20
97/24 99/11 100/24
101/24 102/8 103/13
105/2 106/7 108/20
111/4 114/11 123/12
124/24 125/8 132/13
141/3 143/2 145/3
166/23 167/1 167/4
robust' [1] 95/2
robustness [7] 6/23
81/3 92/14 93/5 93/6
93/8 102/12
Rod [1] 48/5
Rodric [1] 135/23
Roland [1] 140/17
role [3] 73/1 166/5
166/9
roll [1] 84/2
rolled [1] 163/2
rolling [2] 83/25
155/24
rollout [1] 43/16
room [1] 103/16
rough [1] 147/11
roughly [3] 25/18
40/5 40/6
roughshod [1]
166/18
round [1] 35/21
rounded [2] 109/24
109/25
rounds [1] 60/24
route [2] 99/18 100/8
Royal [8] 6/3 8/19
11/6 22/1 25/12 36/16
133/4 154/12
rubbish [11] 97/22
98/4 100/23 101/14
right... [10] 162/19
165/12 167/13 170/23}
Robert [2] 37/5 37/23
63/3 65/15 72/17 73/9
123/22 123/24 124/10}
124/13 124/17 124/21
168/3
ruin [1] 171/19
ruined [3] 9/4 115/20
144/16
rules [2] 14/25 15/3
ruling [1] 38/1
run [13] 8/7 14/23
14/25 33/11 38/25
51/1 53/6 64/24 73/3
109/4 153/15 159/2
159/10
running [7] 11/2
59/21 73/1 88/3 109/1
109/14 134/18
runs [1] 39/15
Rural [2] 114/15
115/3
Ss
sacked [1] 122/5
safe [5] 99/18 126/12
128/22 145/4 165/23
safes [1] 154/19
safety [1] 55/15
said [67] 13/2 16/4
19/2 22/15 22/17
22/18 33/10 50/10
51/16 52/22 60/11
67/8 68/4 68/5 69/17
72/21 73/18 73/21
80/15 89/6 96/15
96/17 98/8 99/7
101/17 103/10 104/16)
104/25 106/3 114/10
114/16 114/22 115/3
115/19 121/17 121/20)
121/22 122/18 123/11
123/16 125/1 134/20
137/25 140/9 142/3
147/8 148/8 149/23
150/17 152/18 154/1
154/1 154/4 155/25
157/14 159/6 159/18
159/20 160/12 163/4
164/16 167/6 169/15
169/18 169/21 171/7
171/15
sake [1] 167/5
salaries [1] 11/5
salary [5] 19/5 19/6
20/7 152/16 163/17
sale [2] 15/18 43/21
Sales [1] 83/17
same [18] 6/4 8/1
20/4 51/9 53/23 61/18
74/10 76/14 79/3
82/18 82/19 90/22
104/4 123/25 127/7
133/4 152/6 166/10
sat [2] 22/14 68/7
satisfactory [1]
101/15 101/20 101/22
101/23 101/24 129/13)
rubbished [1] 148/14
84/18
satisfied [1] 13/10
Saturday [2] 87/24
88/1
saved [4] 26/12
26/12 41/21 41/22
Saver [2] 17/16 82/6
saving [1] 40/5
savings [4] 17/14
17/15 128/2 165/14
saw [8] 76/15 82/19
85/2 106/11 126/13
say [85] 2/21 3/2 3/6
4/20 5/10 6/6 6/10
14/2 14/17 18/7 19/7
21/2 23/5 23/5 24/20
28/4 32/2 35/5 35/18
48/19 49/10 54/2
65/12 66/12 67/11
71/20 78/22 79/15
86/21 89/13 89/24
90/8 95/8 95/20 96/3
96/3 101/11 102/7
104/1 105/6 107/11
107/19 109/12 111/6
115/2 121/8 125/7
126/16 132/5 133/1
153/4 153/6 153/8
161/25 165/20 171/8
173/19 173/25
saying [35] 16/17
57/10 68/16 76/15
78/16 80/17 80/18
83/25 89/4 98/22
98/25 99/11 99/12
117/8 123/25 124/24
124/24 135/10 151/7
156/8 156/12 157/1
158/15 163/23 173/9
says [61] 15/20 17/5
20/22 30/4 31/12 34/1
34/10 34/17 37/6
39/12 43/12 47/17
48/14 48/18 54/21
55/7 58/21 62/17
68/23 69/14 72/6
TAINT 75/15 76/1 82/5
82/10 83/7 85/10
87/20 88/12 94/18
99/2 103/22 104/5
104/12 107/5 108/24
110/17 112/7 112/15
113/6 113/21 118/13
120/13 124/5 125/23
127/19 128/21 135/23}
136/5 136/16 137/3
137/13 137/17 138/23
138/24 141/13 142/18
143/11 143/18 144/1
scale [2] 95/15 95/20
scandal [3] 4/22 41/9
2/12 8/15 9/22 15/1
15/14 33/5 33/6 42/21
43/2 46/18 47/25
57/21 58/4 58/11 59/8)
60/22 62/25 63/1 66/3}
70/3 71/7 71/19 71/21
91/14 94/19 103/9
106/3 113/9 113/11
126/13 126/14 170/16
3/12 3/23 4/2 4/7 4/13
6/15 7/11 10/20 12/12
26/6 26/11 27/25 28/1
38/8 39/13 42/19 48/1
58/11 59/6 60/14 61/4
140/20 140/22 144/20
150/13 150/21 152/11
22/3 46/7 50/20 53/16
100/22 102/11 107/17)
157/10 157/12 157/23
41/10
123/10
schedule [1] 8/12
Scheme [1] 138/19
scope [4] 84/22 85/4
103/17 106/10
Scotland [9] 2/16
8/16 37/24 119/8
164/14 165/3
Scott [1] 66/11
Scottish [1] 37/6
scrapped [2] 101/8
102/15
33/21 45/23 46/8
86/20
screens [5] 43/23
44/20 46/5 77/25
118/6
script [1] 171/24
scroll [52] 3/23 4/2
4/19 14/1 15/15 20/21
23/15 28/18 30/22
33/24 34/13 43/10
46/25 47/14 48/12
51/18 55/6 57/19
60/19 72/5 74/17
78/20 79/10 82/9 85/6
91/18 97/19 98/25
100/3 104/10 107/11
113/20 120/11 120/17}
124/3 125/7 125/22
126/3 126/5 127/19
130/22 131/3 132/15
135/22 136/15 137/12
138/19 140/21 143/11
143/17 143/24 155/5
Scrolling [1] 137/2
second [34] 72/11
73/5 74/2 74/14 75/13,
80/4 80/6 86/4 88/22
88/23 91/3 91/16 92/4)
94/15 94/17 97/1
99/15 103/7 104/10
104/14 104/22 105/10)
108/1 108/10 108/12
111/13 121/11 123/18
124/21 139/12 141/10}
151/15 156/2 172/9
secondhand [2]
39/19 39/20
secretaries [3] 23/3
57/5 169/5
Secretary [45] 2/10
scandalous [2] 73/11
143/11 152/13 162/17]
screen [6] 2/17 33/19
119/19 143/10 145/1
162/15 162/17 162/19)
162/20 163/10 164/7
164/7 166/7 166/9
167/25 168/8 169/25
secretary's [1] 71/24
secretive [1] 113/17
section [14] 12/9
21/5 37/3 39/8 43/10
47/15 57/3 57/20 72/5)
91/15 113/21 117/22
131/2 145/20
section 1 [1] 21/5
secure [7] 97/24
99/18 100/24 102/8
124/10 124/13 124/25)
security [3] 58/5
66/11 172/16
see [59] 1/3 20/21
27/2 28/20 30/3 30/22I
33/24 42/24 43/1 43/3}
43/6 43/11 48/11
54/23 55/6 64/16
69/22 70/1 78/19
78/20 78/21 79/15
85/6 85/21 88/13
88/16 91/13 94/17
101/18 103/15 104/10)
105/21 106/9 109/11
109/13 110/19 115/20)
117/13 119/17 121/9
122/16 125/13 130/23)
135/24 139/18 140/18)
142/22 146/7 146/21
147/4 150/2 155/8
156/6 156/11 156/15
165/12 165/18 165/19}
169/3
Seema [1] 74/15
seemed [2] 134/17
154/6
seemingly [1] 113/13
seems [14] 16/23
21/12 31/2 34/8 35/14)
77/21 86/8 92/18
95/14 100/18 102/21
116/18 121/10 161/5
seen [13] 20/25
37/10 41/3 72/15
73/15 82/23 93/22
94/25 107/6 115/25
146/20 162/8 167/21
seen/heard/read [1]
107/6
segregation [1]
36/14
(68) right... - segregationO
Ss
Select [3] 141/8
141/14 141/17
self [7] 10/2 12/18
12/19 13/5 21/19
97/10 120/10
self-employed [4]
10/2 13/5 21/19
120/10
self-explanatory [1]
97/10
sell [1] 173/2
semi [1] 106/23
send [5] 87/21
100/21 146/10 150/21
172/24
sending [3] 78/24
97/20 144/21
senior [9] 10/23
23/20 28/17 51/2
56/16 56/18 70/2
138/18 141/23
sense [4] 10/9
140/12 168/25 173/15}
sent [19] 11/25 19/25
23/17 54/20 56/21
59/21 64/16 69/21
69/25 74/16 79/7
109/11 110/20 112/9
112/13 121/6 126/22
146/8 151/12
sentence [3] 29/12
33/25 138/23
sentences [3] 4/7 6/6
29/13
separate [1] 21/1
September [2] 54/20
417/19
series [1] 83/17
serious [4] 83/10
95/24 96/1 121/12
serve [2] 45/3 171/2
service [6] 3/4 15/19
22/1 44/9 44/11 128/8
services [1] 104/17
serving [4] 55/18
55/18 99/21 100/1
session [1] 88/8
set [4] 18/11 52/1
70/12 119/25
sets [3] 29/8 104/9
127/17
settle [1] 142/4
settled [2] 62/25
142/8
settlement [1] 63/18
seven [5] 79/8 80/12
85/14 143/6 148/15
seventh [1] 48/18
several [1] 75/11
shaking [1] 152/2
shall [1] 54/10
shared [2] 58/6
141/23
Shareholder [1]
107/17
sharing [1] 144/22
Sharon [4] 48/4
51/24 78/8 89/16
she [26] 15/2 48/13
48/13 48/15 74/23
75/1 121/7 124/5
138/23 138/24 149/17)
152/14 152/15 152/16)
152/18 152/18 152/19)
155/22 155/24 155/25)
156/4 156/5 157/23
172/21 172/23 172/25)
she's [3] 155/24
156/12 156/15
sheer [3] 5/20 129/7
173/18
shenanigans [2]
111/8 123/5
shilling [1] 160/17
shock [1] 22/9
Shoosmiths [1]
82/13
shop [4] 35/19 44/5
115/3 121/3
shopkeeper [1]
150/13
Shops [4] 114/15
Shoreham [5] 8/18
66/7 89/14 118/16
122/1
short [10] 8/2 11/14
54/14 88/13 91/7
119/16 130/16 152/15)
165/21 168/2
shortage [7] 5/12
60/18 90/18 119/9
157/7 157/15 162/13
shortages [4] 89/21
89/22 91/1 98/17
shortfall [1] 86/18
shortfalls [3] 85/14
85/23 157/1
shortly [6] 42/7 48/11
86/5 104/8 104/13
108/9
should [37] 1/11
21/18 52/5 54/1 54/2
55/24 56/18 56/20
63/24 74/1 74/25
77/14 78/2 80/20 98/9
101/8 102/15 112/18
116/20 116/20 124/18)
124/18 129/1 135/8
135/14 137/10 137/19)
141/20 142/3 142/4
142/8 144/6 154/22
155/23 160/7 163/5
166/19
shouldn't [1] 13/3
shouldnae [1] 143/7
show [6] 94/10
123/23 141/10 145/25
147/25 169/6
showed [2] 39/9
144/12
showing [1] 90/12
shown [5] 9/25 10/1
56/8 61/14 76/24
shows [2] 56/11 81/2
shut [1] 168/7
sic [1] 94/2
side [5] 19/9 34/13
43/4 122/14 129/12
sided [1] 131/25
sides [2] 24/17 55/25
Sight [27] 72/11 73/5
74/2 74/14 75/13 80/4
80/6 86/4 88/22 88/23
91/16 92/4 94/15 97/1
99/15 104/10 104/14
104/22 105/10 108/1
108/10 108/13 111/13
121/11 123/18 124/21
139/12
sign [4] 24/3 24/19
131/16 131/23
Signals [1] 29/14
signature [2] 1/20
1/21
signed [3] 24/25 29/7
71/25
significant [20] 4/9
8/11 14/8 14/10 16/2
16/21 27/3 27/13
39/10 39/23 41/4
42/11 45/18 47/12
73/11 74/8 97/14
148/7 150/14 168/20
significantly [1] 5/11
signing [2] 29/16
48/12
similar [5] 36/8 84/20I
117/14 125/18 155/11
simple [3] 60/20
77/15 134/25
simply [8] 28/3 34/23
45/16 93/22 126/7
129/24 137/10 157/12
since [13] 3/16 7/14
42/4 60/16 66/17 69/2
69/3 83/20 101/17
118/16 155/22 156/4
170/10
single [10] 7/2
117/13 119/13 157/6
157/7 158/7 158/7
159/5 159/6 159/11
sir [19] 1/3 54/8 91/2
97/6 101/10 129/25
130/10 130/18 148/17
149/4 149/6 149/8
161/11 161/17 167/12
167/16 167/23 168/1
174/11
Sir Alan [3] 97/6
101/10 167/23
Sir Alan's [1] 168/1
sit [1] 147/21
sits [1] 51/19
situ [2] 80/24 94/6
situation [11] 16/8
20/17 42/9 43/13
59/20 60/13 108/11
119/4 119/8 134/1
157/21
six [10] 2/14 32/3
32/15 36/12 36/14
64/24 79/8 80/12
95/12 164/6
sixth [1] 48/18
size [2] 40/22 88/6
slightly [7] 3/22 34/5
37/4 95/16 103/5
130/3 138/15
sloshing [1] 154/18
small [36] 2/24 3/7
5/5 5/20 6/4 10/11
12/8 17/24 25/24 26/5}
27/14 51/1 52/20
63/19 63/20 63/24
65/23 76/25 78/9
78/10 83/9 83/16
90/25 91/9 94/10
109/19 115/1 115/21
115/22 116/2 145/23
146/1 146/15 170/8
170/8 173/1
smaller [5] 25/5
26/20 26/23 40/6
66/19
Smith [1] 89/25
sniffing [2] 142/21
142/25
snowed [2] 96/4 96/8
so [213]
soften [1] 125/20
software [2] 114/6
127/24
sold [1] 17/7
sole [1] 40/7
solicitor [1] 167/2
solicitors [2] 131/5
131/21
solution [1] 163/13
solve [1] 91/23
some [76] 2/4 2/19
6/7 10/7 10/23 11/6
14/16 19/8 25/23
26/20 28/4 32/9 32/10)
35/16 35/18 36/4
36/10 39/23 42/22
43/13 46/16 48/22
52/16 52/17 53/4 54/3,
54/5 61/21 62/13
62/18 62/21 63/11
63/11 64/2 64/2 66/19)
67/11 82/24 90/19
92/9 92/10 93/15
94/10 95/13 106/24
108/7 113/8 116/4
118/19 119/21 121/12)
122/9 122/17 124/19
129/20 131/20 132/22)
146/5 148/20 152/4
154/13 157/18 159/23)
161/15 164/24 167/18)
168/14 169/18 170/25}
474/17 171/18 172/5
172/10 173/11 173/12)
173/13
somebody [14] 15/9
37/5 62/12 74/12
74/16 75/21 81/21
112/6 112/13 163/24
164/12 165/6 165/10
165/13
someone [14] 12/11
12/24 22/10 23/10
32/12 38/7 38/11
66/23 71/6 109/5
112/11 150/9 150/21
152/11
something [31] 7/20
9/8 20/2 23/1 41/6
41/13 43/25 44/25
45/4 46/9 47/21 50/3
52/8 61/8 67/9 67/23
67/24 71/25 81/14
94/1 117/11 122/18
128/17 142/4 150/2
156/9 164/6 168/4
168/11 168/11 169/22)
sometimes [9] 63/7
86/16 90/7 104/1
133/6 135/6 144/16
146/21 164/13
somewhat [2] 25/5
87/15
somewhere [1] 19/19,
Somme [1] 153/8
son [4] 69/1 119/10
164/17 164/17
soon [2] 24/22
170/18
sooner [1] 121/6
sorry [13] 12/1 49/9
122/24 122/24 122/24)
122/24 147/17 147/17
147/17 147/17 162/2
166/2 170/4
sort [6] 85/4 162/5
163/9 164/3 164/8
164/8
sought [3] 79/20
162/12 163/10
sound [4] 126/12
128/22 128/25 128/25)
sounds [1] 87/2
South [1] 143/11
Spa [1] 45/2
space [2] 17/7 168/2
spats [1] 146/23
speak [13] 10/14
(69) Select - speakO
Ss
28/5 44/5 48/5 64/15
70/25 71/11 79/12
111/3 153/20 154/13
171/9
speaking [3] 13/1
137/7 157/13
special [4] 26/10
36/23 160/23 161/2
ialist [1] 26/8
ists [1] 26/1
specific [5] 18/8
specifics [1] 89/13
spend [1] 165/24
spent [2] 52/5 71/10
splitting [1] 88/14
spoke [9] 33/7 48/19
64/15 65/14 69/17
155/21
spoken [3] 59/3
140/19 149/20
sponsored [1] 17/25
sponsorship [1] 18/6
spot [2] 84/15 129/8
stability [1] 35/10
stack [4] 90/1 90/4
90/12 133/6
stacks [1] 88/7
staff [32] 10/6 10/7
22/19 23/4 48/6 49/3
49/4 65/7 75/4 84/7
84/12 84/25 86/12
87/24 88/1 88/14
90/16 121/24 122/1
122/3 122/9 128/17
133/12 135/7 140/2
153/10 158/2 158/3
158/5 158/5 172/19
173/1
stage [15] 2/4 16/25
24/21 30/15 31/2
63/13 88/22 95/8
95/10 104/14 123/20
128/19 132/3 151/14
151/15
stages [1] 117/21
staggering [1] 66/2
stairs [1] 172/21
stance [4] 116/24
117/3 126/2 132/24
stand [2] 17/23 51/12
standard [1] 76/19
standards [1] 78/1
standing [2] 136/13
152/9
start [16] 42/18 51/18)
57/17 74/9 78/18
81/20 82/21 88/3
91/11 97/4 108/22
125/5 135/19 143/8
speak... [12] 11/5
82/25 83/2 87/16 89/2
117/20 145/21 155/16)
167/19 172/13
started [3] 152/23
157/8 172/14
starts [1] 13/19
state [1] 78/2
stated [5] 5/24 6/11
6/17 53/24 116/11
statement [43] 1/12
1/22 2/18 2/20 4/24
7/19 50/4 53/15 53/16)
64/4 64/19 64/20
76/19 98/18 103/3
103/8 103/20 103/23
103/25 104/7 105/13
105/21 105/23 106/16)
1410/3 110/5 110/7
110/9 110/11 110/13
117/13 125/25 126/3
139/23 141/13 144/23)
164/20 170/14 170/20)
171/1 171/14 174/5
175/12
statements [1] 123/8
stating [1] 75/9
status [7] 13/22
19/23 22/24 29/22
40/10 119/17 120/3
stay [1] 31/9
Stein [6] 148/20
148/25 149/11 149/13)
157/11 175/6
Stein's [1] 158/17
step [4] 59/16 59/16
112/22 114/13
steps [1] 34/14
steroids [2] 46/2
171/18
Steve [1] 81/21
stewardship [1] 3/13
stick [4] 13/8 34/12
86/6 171/24
Sticking [2] 32/19
108/21
still [40] 3/4 3/25
4/12 6/13 8/4 8/20
9/17 10/13 11/3 11/3
18/18 20/5 31/18
36/17 46/21 49/15
53/22 66/16 74/24
80/24 81/19 92/20
95/17 95/18 96/10
96/19 106/19 113/3
113/5 120/7 123/20
125/4 130/8 136/6
140/24 145/3 149/4
153/17 154/12 162/15)
stinks [1] 112/10
stipulated [2] 95/17
96/19
stock [7] 83/22 85/7
86/22 88/18 151/16
151/20 157/16
Stoddart [2] 46/19
48/2
stolen [2] 163/5
163/7
stood [1] 102/1
stop [7] 20/14 21/24
26/16 48/14 96/21
118/22 124/20
stopping [1] 68/1
store [1] 26/5
Stores [1] 37/21
story [2] 55/12 163/8
straight [1] 150/16
straightaway [1]
169/12
straightforward [2]
16/10 95/8
strange [3] 15/8
149/5 161/9
strategic [1] 28/17
Strathern [3] 106/21
107/1 107/21
stressed [1] 64/25
strong [10] 7/6 8/3
11/1 11/3 34/15 40/21
66/16 79/17 139/6
145/7
stronger [1] 122/19
strongly [3] 38/4
38/11 141/18
struck [1] 160/17
structure [1] 15/13
structuring [1] 52/21
struggling [4] 25/8
25/23 134/13 164/25
studied [1] 87/8
stuff [2] 89/19 173/8
stupid [1] 67/20
stupidity [4] 46/2
171/18 171/21 171/22}
sub [6] 55/10 77/19
77/22 82/8 84/19
85/24
subject [3] 62/16
127/20 145/6
subpostmaster [23]
4/9 4/15 10/3 17/4
17/13 39/8 54/23 65/7I
69/17 70/23 70/24
79/24 82/3 83/11
97/13 99/21 131/13
136/3 138/12 139/1
139/4 154/7 156/3
subpostmaster's [1]
81/13
subpostmasters [76]
4/3 4/10 5/17 6/8 7/22
9/9 9/17 11/2 13/10
16/4 21/4 21/8 25/4
26/20 31/5 39/10
40/14 41/14 48/20
49/9 53/23 59/19
60/15 63/20 64/12
72/13 75/20 81/25
82/12 82/15 90/21
94/20 97/23 98/4
98/12 99/2 99/17
99/20 100/1 100/6
107/2 109/2 114/5
114/20 115/6 116/14
117/2 118/2 121/1
124/7 125/19 126/8
127/1 127/25 131/6
131/11 131/12 132/7
135/6 143/22 144/13
146/1 150/4 151/10
153/3 153/24 157/22
161/6 161/15 164/24
166/12 166/17 167/3
subpostmasters'’ [3]
43/11 146/14 158/3
subpostmistress [2]
74/23 155/7
subpostmistresses
[1] 128/1
subsequently [2]
87/11 144/3
subsidiary [1] 18/14
subsidise [1] 34/25
subsidy [1] 89/17
substance [1] 78/5
substantial [1]
156/10
substantive [2] 1/17
82/23
substitute [1] 14/19
substitution [1]
14/22
successful [2] 18/16
18/23
succumb [1] 164/24
such [12] 37/14
64/25 66/6 73/5 73/10
74/8 77/17 77/23 84/6
92/23 128/23 167/23
sudden [1] 165/25
Sue [3] 23/17 23/20
23/22
suffered [3] 55/18
100/7 131/6
sufficient [2] 70/12
114/17
suggest [4] 88/17
94/25 95/22 134/20
suggested [4] 34/8
87/21 112/17 120/20
suggesting [4] 52/5
87/9 87/13 145/24
suggestion [6] 7/21
9/8 15/9 41/6 84/25
122/12
suggests [2] 45/18
82/1
suicides [1] 129/20
suit [2] 98/19 110/5
suitably [1] 30/10
sum [3] 8/11 16/21
77/11
summarising [1]
126/10 126/17 126/19}
167/19
summary [1] 60/4
summer [7] 23/15
23/21 35/4 35/14
102/20 125/5 130/21
sums [6] 41/4 42/11
52/18 148/7 150/14
168/20
supermarket [1] 44/4
supplemented [1]
19/7
supply [1] 116/17
support [31] 8/4 18/9
29/9 31/3 39/14 42/3
42/6 42/20 56/2 57/6
60/6 60/8 75/5 75/7
75/18 77/22 79/17
84/17 103/18 106/14
4117/1 118/2 118/4
122/16 122/18 123/3
139/6 144/12 145/16
145/25 148/9
supported [6] 41/20
41/21 53/3 63/2 73/9
122/21
supporter [6] 11/1
11/3 80/23 147/5
148/11 169/9
supporters [1]
169/14
supporting [5] 29/21
49/21 53/1 100/5
100/10
supportive [9] 8/22
9/1 10/21 10/22 31/4
73/8 81/2 136/6 146/4I
sure [16] 4/5 8/18
8/20 22/20 31/23
122/2 122/8 128/17
138/8 141/5 151/17
151/19 156/22 163/21
166/16 171/25
surplus [2] 86/19
87/1
surprise [5] 22/14
86/19 139/7 143/7
149/12
surprised [6] 72/13
73/14 73/18 74/6
79/20 125/13
surprising [1] 18/25
survey [4] 103/14
105/3 106/7 114/12
survival [2] 159/15
159/16
survive [1] 159/17
suspended [13] 49/3
49/9 51/10 59/9 64/12
64/18 69/3 70/22
112/2 149/23 152/4
152/5 172/4
suspending [1]
49/16
suspensions [4]
(70)
)) speak... - suspensionsO
Ss
suspensions... [4]
48/25 64/9 129/16
147/24
suspicions [1] 12/25
swallowed [1] 132/9
swept [1] 55/23
swipe [1] 47/3
switching [1] 47/21
sword [1] 41/23
sworn [2] 1/7 175/2
sympathy [2] 7/21
9/8
synopsis [1] 127/17
system [204]
system's [1] 159/9
systematic [6] 45/13
45/14 65/3 126/8
126/18 126/21
systematically [3]
55/22 76/8 76/9
systemic [24] 3/15
4/23 5/19 6/23 45/19
45/20 45/21 49/14
59/24 62/8 81/2 93/8
96/1 96/8 96/9 96/23
108/19 108/19 114/3
118/11 126/24 127/2
127/3 139/7
systemically [20] 3/4
6/12 7/2 7/15 8/4 51/4
66/16 93/9 94/2 96/19)
98/6 98/13 98/20
98/22 123/12 123/22
123/24 124/20 128/25)
132/16
systems [3] 77/22
85/13 94/15
T
tab [1] 86/20
tactics [3] 107/15
107/22 108/15
take [48] 2/19 7/10
13/18 19/21 29/3
32/24 33/20 34/12
39/4 42/7 54/5 59/12
62/1 62/9 65/22 66/24
68/17 71/8 71/12
76/16 76/17 77/5
90/17 91/3 99/5
100/12 100/19 107/24}
108/7 109/6 123/13
127/4 130/1 131/8
134/15 135/6 135/7
148/22 151/25 153/11
154/21 158/5 165/23
168/13 171/19 172/7
173/6 173/14
taken [29] 7/20 9/5
17/23 20/7 33/16 41/1
49/1 51/17 54/6 58/22)
59/10 60/17 64/10
64/10 65/4 71/15
72/10 77/12 82/11
92/8 99/14 112/22
116/21 119/11 131/19)
164/16 166/2 171/5
173/4
takes [1] 173/13
taking [17] 20/15
39/10 49/16 49/17
51/11 51/21 62/12
73/5 77/17 83/12
88/14 94/9 110/11
123/7 147/19 153/10
172/2
talk [3] 79/22 109/5
109/10
talked [2] 123/19
167/9
talking [12] 5/13
20/12 36/19 50/17
52/13 65/24 99/3
101/12 119/12 154/6
155/11 155/17
targets [1] 36/15
Taro [1] 56/8
task [1] 74/24
Taylor [7] 74/12
7417 75/15 75/16
77/5 79/7 82/18
Taylor's [1] 81/4
team [23] 4/4 6/9
14/8 35/16 35/16
35/23 35/24 36/12
36/14 36/17 38/25
46/19 66/12 72/3
84/17 89/14 138/17
140/3 142/19 147/8
148/5 157/18 162/4
teams [4] 36/11 63/2
63/2 93/18
technical [5] 45/5
45/8 45/24 46/11 56/2
technicality [1] 70/24,
teeth [2] 32/10
160/13
Telecom [1] 77/1
Telegraph [1] 140/17
telephone [2] 75/3
75/9
television [1] 82/24
tell [14] 11/15 54/4
63/24 97/23 100/24
115/12 116/8 158/19
160/16 160/22 163/12)
164/9 164/11 167/4
telling [9] 9/15 47/6
51/2 51/7 62/3 65/17
66/18 164/12 165/9
temporary [1] 159/25:
temptation [2]
164/23 164/24
tempted [1] 159/13
ten [2] 20/3 130/10
tenants [1] 82/7
tend [1] 83/23
tended [1] 25/24
tens [2] 76/10 119/16
tenth [1] 26/6
term [4] 2/12 43/14
43/18 121/16
terminal [1] 89/24
terminals [1] 65/19
terminate [1] 30/18
terminated [5] 4/15
16/25 31/20 69/3
92/10
termination [6] 30/11
30/12 30/17 31/15
32/21 34/21
terms [12] 9/11 11/7
14/21 19/2 36/19
40/17 42/20 52/3
63/16 72/2 123/11
128/14
than [37] 10/24 13/5
14/16 20/3 20/13
22/21 33/16 34/23
36/4 39/4 49/8 55/13
74/23 82/3 85/24 88/2
89/22 90/4 90/17
90/18 96/13 99/24
116/17 121/7 121/19
122/19 128/12 129/2
134/19 136/14 137/14
147/18 162/4 172/1
173/10 173/23 174/1
thank [47] 1/4 1/5
1/11 1/22 1/25 2/17
3/2 13/6 13/20 14/17
15/15 27/2 28/15
28/25 33/21 39/12
46/24 47/2 50/9 54/8
54/16 57/18 59/15
76/3 87/7 91/2 91/9
104/3 105/12 130/14
144/21 145/5 148/17
148/19 155/6 157/20
158/25 161/17 161/18}
167/12 167/16 170/11
170/12 174/4 174/5
174/11 174/12
thanks [3] 79/14
110/19 136/17
that [924]
that I [1] 173/25
that's [132] 1/16 2/3
2/5 2/7 3/1 5/9 6/15
7/9 9/17 13/17 14/15
15/24 16/14 16/17
17/2 17/2 18/24 20/25
21/15 23/5 23/5 23/12
25/23 26/17 27/5 27/7
27/19 29/22 30/2
30/21 35/20 36/11
37/1 37/12 37/18
37/20 37/23 39/13
40/1 40/18 42/13
42/14 43/9 43/21
47/13 49/10 50/3
52/19 58/20 59/8
60/12 62/2 62/3 62/6
63/19 68/22 70/12
70/18 70/24 71/4
72/11 73/6 76/18 78/5
79/8 79/8 81/12 81/24
85/16 90/13 90/13
93/10 93/19 96/25
114/8 117/5 117/9
119/4 119/15 122/20
123/9 129/1 129/10
129/23 129/25 130/13}
131/9 134/13 134/14
135/16 138/3 138/4
139/22 140/12 141/23}
142/13 142/13 142/13
142/14 142/14 147/14]
149/5 149/12 150/2
150/25 151/7 152/23
153/17 154/13 154/19}
155/6 156/12 157/9
157/11 158/17 160/24I
162/17 163/6 163/24
164/22 164/25 168/25]
170/5 1741/3 171/15
171/21 171/22 172/9
173/7 173/10 173/25
174/11
their [98] 4/16 8/21
9/5 10/6 10/7 10/8
10/8 10/12 11/5 12/10}
20/11 23/4 25/10
25/22 26/2 26/3 27/8
29/1 29/3 29/9 38/15
39/15 39/20 44/1
44/22 46/5 46/6 48/19
48/21 49/15 50/23
50/24 64/2 65/7 68/3
84/22 85/25 92/8 92/9
93/14 93/17 93/17
97/1 97/2 100/14
108/3 108/4 108/6
109/4 1114/4 112/3
4112/18 112/21 115/12]
115/20 116/3 116/4
116/16 116/18 121/23
127/14 128/1 128/1
128/2 128/3 128/16
129/18 131/7 132/19
133/12 133/18 136/12]
138/18 139/15 144/14]
144/15 146/2 147/8
147/22 147/22 147/23
149/24 150/7 150/8
151/5 152/9 152/11
154/15 158/2 158/5
159/23 163/22 165/3
167/7 167/10 167/24
171/20 173/17
them [79] 9/15 9/19
16/3 20/11 21/24
25/16 25/24 29/20
30/8 31/9 39/16 39/24
40/19 41/15 48/21
48/23 49/2 49/14
49/17 49/23 50/1 51/4)
56/13 64/1 65/13 81/6)
82/25 83/3 84/15
84/15 88/15 88/24
89/10 89/12 90/7 96/8)
96/11 100/13 100/24
102/25 103/1 106/23
107/3 107/3 107/24
108/7 110/12 111/1
111/3 111/19 116/4
119/5 122/5 126/14
129/7 131/11 133/12
133/24 136/23 136/23
137/11 141/19 146/14I
146/20 146/22 151/13)
151/16 152/15 159/25)
160/3 160/22 163/8
163/21 164/9 164/11
166/18 171/20 172/22)
172/22
theme [1] 114/24
themselves [5] 23/4
55/25 88/6 116/14
170/22
then [66] 7/14 13/25
15/15 16/18 16/25
17/4 17/20 18/7 21/11
23/7 25/17 25/19 26/4I
27/23 27/25 28/3
34/17 36/22 38/19
39/5 39/12 52/4 53/10I
54/4 58/21 62/5 62/17)
62/24 63/11 66/1
66/21 67/22 67/22
69/6 70/1 77/23 79/13}
79/15 84/2 85/9 87/17
89/6 90/10 90/13
92/25 97/2 101/17
104/9 107/10 110/23
116/8 119/25 121/4
123/4 127/17 127/18
130/12 137/2 144/25
149/2 153/14 156/2
159/12 162/20 166/9
167/19
theoretically [1] 86/2
theory [1] 147/1
there [220]
there's [40] 10/15
18/5 20/8 20/8 24/1
25/6 28/18 36/22 37/3
43/10 46/25 47/14
51/5 52/4 57/3 57/20
68/8 69/13 69/19
69/23 72/5 79/10 96/1
108/23 113/20 117/22)
120/12 125/6 126/5
127/2 129/3 129/5
133/10 141/10 146/25)
152/21 156/9 164/23
165/22 172/1
therefore [6] 4/15
(74) suspensions... - thereforeO
T
therefore... [5] 12/20
58/2 70/9 84/21 109/9
these [61] 3/9 18/2
18/18 18/20 22/13
26/6 29/25 36/10
36/21 37/2 49/21
52/18 53/1 53/20
53/22 59/1 61/11
64/17 65/9 67/24
72/15 73/16 80/4
80/17 83/4 83/13
83/19 84/2 88/18
89/18 92/9 93/14
93/15 94/7 95/13
98/18 102/16 106/11
111/8 114/18 116/14
116/19 117/2 120/16
126/21 128/19 129/4
129/22 141/21 142/7
142/7 148/3 148/7
148/10 155/12 156/16
164/19 171/1 172/3
172/12 173/15
they [156] 4/4 4/4
4/17 5/16 10/6 10/6
10/7 10/8 10/10 12/7
12/12 13/2 14/19 16/5)
16/6 16/6 16/7 16/8
16/14 17/14 17/15
17/17 17/23 19/24
19/25 21/2 21/17
21/22 22/20 25/17
25/23 26/3 26/7 29/4
29/5 30/13 30/19
30/19 33/10 35/18
37/21 38/2 38/3 38/16}
39/16 40/11 44/21
44/25 45/6 47/4 48/4
48/5 48/13 49/17
49/19 49/22 53/9
53/24 57/7 59/3 60/1
62/11 64/17 66/19
67/19 74/1 74/2 78/2
81/17 82/22 82/23
82/24 83/21 83/23
84/14 84/14 85/2
86/25 90/10 90/22
92/19 93/17 93/18
97/2 98/12 100/15
100/17 103/19 106/21
107/23 108/6 109/23
109/25 115/4 117/7
119/2 119/2 119/3
119/4 120/15 122/5
122/5 122/14 123/13
124/18 125/13 126/22)
128/19 129/11 131/6
131/15 132/2 132/6
133/15 133/21 134/18
134/18 136/2 136/9
138/11 141/20 142/2
142/3 142/4 145/22
147/10 147/10 147/11
147/20 148/6 152/14
158/1 158/6 158/23
159/3 159/15 159/23
159/25 160/19 163/21
164/1 164/2 164/13
165/2 166/14 166/15
166/15 166/16 166/24)
166/24 167/1 167/8
168/24 170/1 172/10
172/23
they'd [2] 69/16
142/9
they're [11] 22/20
27/3 38/9 49/22 51/7
51/8 51/11 66/18 80/3
153/6 165/10
they've [9] 18/17
18/19 20/4 21/25 46/2
64/16 121/23 141/19
172/10
thing [18] 8/8 36/4
38/20 44/23 48/25
49/10 51/9 62/3 91/1
116/8 117/20 123/25
149/9 152/22 159/21
162/23 163/25 172/9
things [36] 8/15
17/14 17/17 22/13
27/25 33/9 48/24 53/4
64/6 64/17 67/24 83/4
89/18 90/3 93/11
93/14 94/3 94/4 98/18
102/17 107/4 108/17
109/22 110/10 110/14)
129/2 133/7 133/15
139/22 144/17 150/18)
158/15 160/14 164/19)
172/10 173/16
think [62] 7/20 8/18
9/7 9/21 11/13 11/19
15/2 17/2 17/16 19/2
19/18 30/15 32/1
37/23 38/19 39/9 41/5)
47/1 49/15 50/3 54/1
58/10 59/11 63/4
68/16 68/21 69/22
70/7 70/8 70/11 86/15)
87/2 93/25 103/4
103/6 108/17 117/6
122/17 124/4 126/22
128/25 129/25 130/9
130/24 131/23 132/9
136/18 137/25 140/1
140/6 140/6 141/24
147/14 155/2 157/11
158/2 161/13 163/25
168/14 171/8 173/25
174/9
thinking [1] 40/11
thinks [1] 102/4
third [4] 37/19 47/16
88/25 121/5
this [240]
Thomas [2] 48/16
135/22
Thomson [60] 1/6
1/7 1/10 1/11 2/1 9/4
11/10 13/6 20/14 22/4]
26/16 27/20 50/3 50/7
52/9 54/17 61/14 68/1
90/20 91/9 94/19
96/15 97/7 103/9
106/3 110/7 123/16
124/6 126/13 134/21
137/18 138/25 148/3
149/12 149/14 150/8
151/10 152/25 155/2
155/18 156/13 156/24)
157/13 158/9 158/18
160/6 160/9 160/25
161/3 165/5 166/3
166/18 167/17 169/2
169/20 169/24 170/11
170/13 171/11 175/2
Thorney [1] 77/25
thorough [2] 42/7
46/17
thoroughly [1] 53/2
those [26] 7/19 9/6
9/9 36/8 43/5 46/14
48/22 50/14 67/16
68/13 76/15 92/18
92/25 95/3 100/7
106/14 112/24 115/18}
118/17 126/13 143/22
144/13 148/17 159/3
167/12 171/10
though [17] 16/23
19/7 21/12 32/15
32/25 36/19 40/15
42/3 62/18 71/13
92/19 98/23 104/12
108/9 121/10 122/12
128/19
thought [6] 75/19
107/23 108/6 136/10
141/21 166/23
thoughts [5] 23/13
85/20 108/6 144/21
144/22
thousands [3] 52/6
76/10 156/10
threads [1] 112/16
threat [1] 121/3
three [22] 10/16
10/17 12/23 23/6 26/9}
33/11 41/21 46/24
52/21 83/18 85/14
102/11 111/15 120/11
143/18 148/16 152/2
160/1 160/2 165/1
172/14 173/4
three paragraphs [1]
143/18
three years [4] 12/23
23/6 148/16 173/4
three-quarters [2]
33/11 46/24
through [15] 2/19 4/5
13/18 20/15 48/5
79/22 80/4 85/10
110/11 111/24 112/25)
121/1 129/8 143/21
161/6
throughout [1]
114/24
Thursday [4] 150/21
tie [1] 140/7
tied [3] 41/25 42/2
159/14
till [2] 45/11 88/14
tills [1] 44/4
time [101] 3/9 8/15
8/16 9/14 9/22 11/25
12/8 13/7 13/7 14/12
14/23 14/25 16/18
16/23 17/8 17/8 17/15)
20/12 20/12 22/24
23/6 23/23 26/19 28/4)
37/20 40/15 40/19
40/25 41/8 41/16 42/9
42/10 43/1 43/16
44/25 45/8 45/12 48/4
48/23 50/14 54/10
57/21 60/2 61/23 63/8)
64/5 64/9 70/14 71/10)
72/23 77/17 79/3
81/18 86/6 87/21 90/9
93/3 101/16 101/21
102/2 105/1 105/4
106/22 116/6 116/6
119/12 120/13 121/10
121/25 122/1 122/13
124/2 124/5 125/1
127/7 130/6 130/23
130/25 131/24 134/6
134/24 138/14 139/20}
143/1 143/1 143/25
145/19 146/4 147/14
148/6 148/10 153/18
161/22 161/23 162/15)
163/14 163/15 168/2
168/18 168/19 169/24)
timeline [2] 52/15
52/16
times [17] 20/3 28/20
57/4 57/9 67/8 73/2
95/12 102/11 104/1
105/7 115/15 124/14
134/5 143/6 143/6
146/13 148/9
timescale [1] 35/2
timetable [1] 148/23
tiny [13] 3/18 5/6
6/20 63/17 63/22
63/22 64/20 94/8 94/8)
96/7 115/16 115/18
170/4
tipping [3] 34/2
142/20 142/24
tirelessly [1] 128/9
title [1] 130/24
today [32] 9/20 11/11
11/13 13/7 21/9 37/17
49/7 51/19 69/15
70/18 109/18 110/11
114/24 121/18 122/22)
130/8 137/8 143/1
143/7 146/13 149/15
149/21 155/16 155/21
166/24 166/25 167/2
167/18 170/21 171/2
171/23 174/6
today's [3] 28/2
172/16 174/7
together [2] 41/3
159/14
toing [1] 103/24
told [26] 21/17 40/11
47/5 49/25 52/12
63/16 66/25 67/4 67/4
67/10 68/1 68/8 69/8
69/10 87/13 93/12
93/13 122/22 124/18
131/19 131/20 143/6
151/19 156/15 157/22)
160/19
Tom [1] 137/4
tomorrow [2] 111/3
139/13
too [11] 9/21 11/18
64/16 87/23 99/20
117/8 117/16 122/24
126/1 131/25 144/2
took [24] 19/24 27/7
31/21 36/11 36/12
50/22 50/22 51/13
51/14 51/17 53/9
62/11 62/24 63/18
63/21 64/2 65/12
65/14 80/8 95/3 95/19]
116/24 158/13 169/7
tool [3] 150/10
153/16 153/17
top [5] 33/23 65/16
66/22 107/16 143/18
topic [1] 11/24
topics [1] 30/15
total [3] 18/1 83/20
99/24
totalling [1] 156/4
totally [5] 21/22
40/23 101/8 107/15
114/13
touch [3] 8/5 80/16
107/5
tow [4] 135/11
towards [5] 24/14
46/25 82/22 113/7
131/25
town [1] 139/12
TP [1] 155/24
tracing [1] 86/16
track [1] 88/9
trade [33] 12/8 12/13
(72) therefore... - tradeO
T
trade... [31] 12/15
13/3 13/22 13/23 21/4)
21/5 21/8 21/12 21/18
21/21 22/10 22/11
22/23 23/8 38/6 38/10)
40/12 40/15 40/17
51/9 53/8 71/7 119/17
119/21 120/6 120/21
121/2 146/19 150/10
153/16 153/17
trading [7] 18/13
19/4 83/19 84/3 86/21
88/4 88/20
trail [1] 137/15
train [4] 79/12
training [5] 86/13
87/14 111/6 118/2
118/4
transact [1] 43/24
transaction [3] 16/10
81/1 90/1
transactions [37]
3/17 4/25 5/4 5/6 5/20
6/1 6/19 8/3 10/18
44/24 45/12 47/10
60/11 60/17 62/7
63/21 76/5 77/11
77/15 84/13 85/8
92/16 93/7 94/8 94/23
96/7 115/16 129/7
146/17 148/2 148/2
148/13 150/12 170/4
170/7 170/7 173/18
transfer [2] 8/13
25/10
transferring [1] 26/4
transformation [21]
14/7 18/9 19/17 25/3
25/19 29/10 29/20
29/21 31/1 31/3 31/4
31/11 31/24 34/4
41/11 42/1 63/7 63/8
120/23 163/20 168/16
travel [1] 71/18
treated [1] 113/14
tried [8] 64/14 67/17
68/4 89/5 152/6
164/20 168/5 173/20
troops [1] 153/7
trouble [2] 4/17 58/2
true [4] 1/22 77/9
129/14 143/21
trust [2] 98/14
116/25
trustees [2] 84/24
85/3
trusting [2] 117/8
117/16
truth [7] 9/15 11/15
27/22 58/20 165/9
167/5 170/5
truthful [2] 32/8
142/1
try [15] 52/1 64/14
81/14 109/23 109/23
109/25 120/20 139/2
139/4 147/17 150/6
150/23 151/2 163/13
163/21
trying [15] 19/22
20/16 36/12 52/17
71/21 77/3 77/3 99/22
115/24 122/20 124/22)
153/4 153/6 153/8
166/21
Tuesday [2] 174/8
174/15
tune [1] 153/13
turn [47] 1/17 3/1
11/23 20/18 23/14
29/23 35/3 36/23 37/3
42/25 44/8 46/21
46/22 54/16 57/16
69/22 70/1 71/23 74/9)
81/19 82/17 82/20
91/13 91/15 94/12
94/17 97/4 104/3
105/12 106/18 108/21
110/15 111/9 112/5
124/1 125/3 127/6
131/2 135/18 137/16
138/14 139/9 140/13
141/10 142/16 143/8
154/22
turned [2] 4/4 161/13
turning [2] 18/8
145/17
TV [3] 79/5 80/14
173/13
twelve [2] 74/23 78/3
twelve years [2]
74/23 78/3
twice [2] 84/10
170/15
Twitter [1] 113/14
two [21] 7/25 8/15
12/23 13/9 23/6 26/9
48/24 88/23 92/18
92/25 94/3 94/4
103/24 111/22 118/24)
120/7 120/17 125/19
133/8 143/24 152/1
tying [2] 41/1 41/2
type [3] 107/13
107/19 136/10
types [2] 52/18 159/3
typical [1] 141/6
typically [1] 103/24
UK [5] 7/6 11/9 14/10
76/6 124/7
UKGI00001839 [1]
106/18
UKGI00005002 [1]
124/1
ultimate [1] 105/13
ultimately [2] 105/10
17114
unaffordable [1]
152/16
uncertainty [1] 29/15
under [37] 3/13 5/18
17/9 31/11 35/8 47/16
55/23 64/11 84/4 96/4
96/9 98/17 98/18
110/1 112/1 112/2
112/3 129/17 129/18
129/19 133/21 133/22
149/22 149/23 149/24
150/6 151/1 151/4
151/5 151/7 152/3
152/14 153/5 162/22
163/18 163/19 169/24
undermine [1] 160/8
undermining [2]
132/3 160/19
understand [11] 22/2
27/20 29/15 54/7
61/25 62/6 77/17
129/21 155/18 156/12
156/13
understanding [4]
20/17 24/16 28/21
102/1
undertake [1] 14/19
undertaking [2] 66/3
99/16
undoubtedly [2]
51/25 59/3
unexplained [6]
83/18 84/2 85/14
85/22 85/25 100/5
unfair [2] 131/13
131/23
unforgivable [3]
49/22 49/23 93/19
unfortunately [5]
12/17 13/1 87/23
114/19 115/4
unhappy [1] 6/8
unhelpful [1] 75/4
unincorporated [2]
119/23 120/8
union [42] 12/8 12/10
12/13 12/15 13/4
13/23 13/23 14/1
14/12 14/20 19/23
20/9 20/11 21/5 21/5
21/12 21/18 21/21
22/10 22/23 24/18
24/20 24/22 24/23
38/6 38/9 40/10 40/13
40/15 40/17 48/20
51/9 53/8 56/20 71/7
114/21 119/17 119/21
120/7 120/21 121/2
161/7
unions [3] 21/8 22/1
146/21
Unique [1] 1/14
unit [4] 172/24
Unite [1] 35/1
unlikely [1] 88/15
unreliable [2] 47/5
47/7
unsafe [2] 117/3
158/14
unsuccessful [1]
88/10
until [10] 4/17 29/6
41/2 42/21 55/11
86/22 133/25 147/10
173/2 174/14
untruths [1] 112/11
unusual [1] 112/11
up [75] 2/17 4/4 8/19
14/10 19/9 22/18
24/10 25/15 28/5 29/1
33/21 36/11 47/21
47/24 49/8 50/5 51/12
51/14 51/17 51/21
57/12 65/12 65/14
66/19 67/19 71/2 71/3,
78/20 79/21 83/20
85/6 85/9 86/22 87/14
94/4 95/5 97/19 102/3
102/14 104/10 105/17}
107/11 111/19 116/21
119/25 122/3 122/10
125/22 131/15 132/6
132/8 132/9 133/8
136/11 136/15 137/2
137/12 139/16 140/21
141/16 150/18 153/24)
154/22 156/7 156/9
156/10 156/16 157/1
157/1 157/14 157/22
165/4 170/8 172/21
174/2
update [3] 30/6 44/11
140/18
updated [1] 78/3
uploaded [2] 105/23
110/8
upon [1] 92/6
upset [2] 74/6 132/2
uptight [1] 4/3
Urban [2] 25/13 42/1
urgently [1] 53/19
Urging [1] 53/17
us [40] 4/14 16/8
16/12 16/19 17/18
18/13 19/24 20/2 23/1
38/10 39/4 39/11
40/13 49/20 51/13
52/4 53/4 54/4 54/4
62/1 62/9 66/1 70/21
71/2 73/7 74/1 78/25
80/8 85/3 86/15
101/19 108/16 113/10}
117/4 126/10 129/25
140/5 142/20 144/14
160/13
use [10] 7/18 21/20
23/22 74/20 75/1
81/22 102/23 103/19
133/20 153/9
used [33] 2/22 3/16
4/24 6/17 7/7 8/3
25/11 34/9 41/18
45/20 45/20 55/10
58/5 58/17 60/15
66/17 71/6 74/22
80/25 96/13 103/1
106/23 107/1 107/3
107/21 124/23 129/1
133/20 134/14 139/25)
150/11 153/12 170/9
useful [1] 82/13
useless [1] 75/7
user [1] 90/23
users [3] 2/24 3/7 5/5)
uses [1] 66/16
using [8] 76/20 84/7
84/13 86/13 108/16
118/19 139/1 139/4
usual [1] 6/7
usually [5] 6/21 63/8
84/14 88/1 88/5
utmost [1] 56/18
Vv
vacancy [1] 140/3
valuable [1] 146/15
value [5] 20/9 21/25
51/3 70/4 150/11
van [3] 138/20 139/3
141/7
various [6] 9/19
18/11 24/1 51/25 56/7I
56/11
vast [8] 62/19 127/1
133/14 134/9 134/10
150/15 150/16 164/23}
vastly [1] 84/12
Vennells [13] 28/12
29/24 30/7 78/14
78/22 92/6 97/20
107/10 109/11 109/17
118/18 149/16 168/2
Vennells' [1] 87/18
verbalised [1] 6/21
very [78] 1/4 1/5 1/11
1/25 3/7 4/3 5/4 6/4
8/4 8/6 8/16 9/1 10/5
10/22 11/1 11/1 23/18)
26/5 27/2 31/4 33/21
35/6 39/13 42/7 43/4
46/18 56/14 56/19
58/23 59/18 60/12
63/24 66/22 68/19
69/11 73/9 77/14 79/1
80/18 80/24 81/2
89/13 89/15 103/3
107/22 111/3 111/12
111/16 113/4 114/21
115/1 115/1 116/8
(73) trade... - veryO
Vv
very... [25] 121/10
122/7 122/8 122/13
124/8 129/11 130/14
132/8 133/1 136/17
138/1 138/16 140/25
141/18 142/20 148/4
149/5 155/11 161/6
168/2 170/16 174/4
174/5 174/11 174/12
via [3] 82/7 82/12
113/43
viable [2] 120/16
17219
view [15] 27/21 34/15)
83/12 98/7 115/6
123/1 125/14 131/18
141/17 149/15 153/22)
153/25 154/8 162/6
162/7
viewpoint [1] 7/4
views [5] 79/19 96/17I
102/1 147/7 147/8
village [1] 173/1
vine [1] 35/25
virtually [2] 14/9
110/4
visitors [1] 17/22
vociferous [1] 32/6
voice [1] 139/18
volume [8] 5/3 5/20
44/24 62/7 111/24
115/16 115/18 129/7
volumes [6] 96/4
109/24 147/25 151/22)
173/18 173/21
vote [2] 38/18 38/21
Wo
wage [1] 15/14
Wait [1] 155/1
Wales [1] 56/8
wallowing [1] 52/23
want [23] 11/10
12/21 16/12 22/23
27/25 33/12 39/19
45/17 64/6 64/7 70/7
89/12 96/20 102/12
103/4 103/23 122/6
138/15 139/16 145/8
154/20 160/3 173/25
wanted [11] 17/18
32/7 40/9 64/23 71/2
94/11 115/13 139/17
149/17 160/15 172/20
wanting [2] 31/23
107/23
wants [3] 100/4
150/9 170/22
War [1] 153/7
Ward [1] 33/6
warned [2] 154/14
154/15
warning [1] 151/16
was [503]
wasn't [39] 8/15
11/20 11/21 15/7 25/5)
32/7 32/13 33/17
70/23 71/5 71/20
87/23 98/22 101/25
119/5 122/8 132/6
132/10 147/14 153/19)
159/7 160/25 160/25
165/22 166/7 166/10
Watchdog [1] 56/10
watching [2] 96/13
149/15
Watt [4] 148/21
167/14 167/15 175/10)
wavered [2] 42/4
42/5
way [9] 14/11 46/24
55/21 90/15 90/22
120/12 146/21 163/6
163/17
ways [1] 89/23
we [563]
we'd [7] 22/10 73/25
96/8 121/25 131/19
131/19 132/4
we'll [10] 42/3 42/6
42/18 42/24 48/10
53/21 54/18 62/13
74/9 125/4
we're [29] 1/5 8/5
16/13 22/18 26/18
28/11 33/12 35/4
36/19 42/19 46/21
46/22 48/8 52/20 53/5)
61/12 65/24 65/25
70/18 73/20 74/10
93/8 102/19 106/18
108/16 124/2 125/4
130/20 155/8
we've [22] 9/1 20/25
22/17 22/21 26/12
28/22 28/22 37/9
37/24 41/3 52/9 61/4
66/12 68/8 88/22
90/21 93/21 129/13
144/17 167/21 169/13)
174/2
weaknesses [1] 5/19
website [5] 57/2 57/3
105/22 105/24 110/8
week [13] 7/24 14/10
20/6 44/5 44/6 47/10
60/12 69/7 76/6 92/17
93/7 94/23 134/3
Weekly [1] 48/9
weeks [5] 7/25 59/17
69/6 75/3 96/12
welcome [2] 85/20
37/19 40/7 42/21 10/5 10/6 11/15 11/16
43/16 43/24 45/4 12/7 17/19 19/22 25/6
45/23 47/25 47/25 27/19 27/20 31/10
53/25 61/16 67/2 70/9) 33/21 37/25 38/24
95/8
welcomed [1] 96/16
welcoming [1] 93/23
welfare [1] 106/25
well [108] 2/22 8/3
39/13 39/14 40/9
40/21 41/10 45/10
46/16 47/25 48/24
51/11 51/21 51/24
53/3 59/3 61/4 62/13
64/8 64/9 64/11 64/22
65/22 67/14 67/17
68/18 70/8 70/14
71/15 71/20 72/21
73/3 83/3 90/24 94/6
95/21 96/10 96/25
98/9 98/10 101/9
102/10 102/18 103/21
104/2 111/18 112/1
114/6 115/25 116/4
117/6 117/15 118/24
121/18 124/23 125/12
128/25 129/20 129/20}
130/12 132/4 133/24
134/22 135/3 135/13
138/8 141/22 145/8
146/6 147/11 149/2
149/5 149/22 151/2
151/11 154/3 154/10
156/23 157/11 157/17]
158/5 159/18 159/24
162/10 164/2 164/5
165/20 166/1 166/3
166/7 168/13 169/4
169/20 170/21
Wendy [1] 118/5
went [18] 5/7 8/18
10/11 23/12 25/16
35/25 36/11 39/8
46/17 64/2 64/17
88/23 90/14 115/15
134/7 138/9 142/1
150/3
were [250]
weren't [12] 44/20
45/25 48/23 57/21
81/6 82/23 115/18
147/11 159/14 160/21
160/23 162/16
werenae [1] 52/22
what [136] 9/10 9/16
16/14 16/17 17/2
18/13 22/2 22/9 22/18}
22/20 25/12 25/21
26/20 27/9 27/11
27/19 30/17 34/10
36/4 36/11 39/4 39/6
39/6 41/18 43/22
43/22 48/1 50/25
51/11 51/14 51/23
52/3 52/3 52/21 53/16
54/10 56/24 56/25
58/8 61/1 61/15 61/17,
61/19 62/1 62/6 64/15
65/12 67/16 68/5
68/10 68/12 71/18
72/18 72/22 73/6
73/24 74/4 79/23
80/14 89/8 89/13
91/18 91/23 91/24
92/2 93/3 95/10 95/21
96/15 96/20 96/21
98/25 101/14 101/16
101/22 102/1 102/4
103/22 104/21 107/19}
111/11 115/1 115/6
115/13 116/2 116/2
4117/7 117/7 117/12
117/16 122/22 123/24}
125/1 128/14 128/19
131/4 132/9 134/19
138/8 141/5 142/13
142/13 142/14 142/15}
143/20 145/24 146/7
146/7 146/19 148/11
149/18 150/6 151/4
151/7 151/9 152/21
153/8 153/17 154/4
154/6 156/12 156/17
157/10 157/11 158/23}
159/6 162/5 164/11
165/19 166/3 168/1
168/25 170/6 171/15
173/9 173/10
what's [12] 39/16
66/13 73/18 73/21
76/18 101/24 108/9
128/15 156/6 156/8
157/24 158/6
whatever [4] 89/11
122/6 149/17 160/3
whatsoever [2] 22/8
132/5
when [84] 2/12 4/3
4/8 6/12 7/25 8/10
10/4 19/8 24/20 26/15]
32/10 46/4 47/4 48/13)
49/17 51/9 59/10 60/2)
60/18 61/12 62/24
63/10 65/12 65/20
65/21 66/21 68/15
70/25 70/25 71/11
72/24 74/25 78/1
82/15 83/24 83/25
84/8 84/14 85/2 86/12,
86/20 88/6 88/19
90/22 91/24 111/5
111/18 114/18 119/3
119/12 121/10 121/23}
122/19 127/21 129/1
129/23 132/5 133/5
134/7 134/17 134/17
142/1 145/13 147/9
147/14 150/2 150/25
151/9 151/11 151/11
151/13 151/17 154/21
155/24 162/12 163/18)
164/22 167/11 169/17)
170/15 171/5 171/20
172/14 172/22
where [40] 15/5 16/8
35/20 43/11 44/16
48/25 51/1 59/20 62/5)
62/9 65/22 66/4 66/23}
68/17 72/9 83/10
88/16 92/7 100/10
101/11 104/12 108/18)
109/21 111/13 117/6
119/8 121/20 128/16
132/21 133/6 134/2
138/8 143/21 143/22
143/23 147/20 154/21
171/19 172/19 174/1
whether [12] 13/10
21/11 26/24 30/17
30/19 84/19 84/20
85/4 109/4 112/9
131/15 140/18
which [49] 7/17 17/6
18/24 20/5 22/25
24/15 25/19 31/15
35/8 36/17 42/9 42/10)
44/19 50/17 54/24
55/21 69/6 77/10
77/20 82/7 83/24 88/4
88/15 94/1 94/22 97/9I
97/11 99/17 99/25
103/3 105/18 106/11
108/18 109/1 112/11
123/19 135/1 136/1
136/21 136/25 147/16)
153/24 154/4 158/21
161/7 167/18 170/19
170/20 172/11
whilst [2] 14/19
166/17
white [1] 156/23
Whitehead [1]
107/17
who [72] 9/5 9/17
9/19 10/2 10/11 12/6
12/9 12/24 18/21
23/17 25/25 26/1 26/1
26/2 26/2 33/4 33/6
43/3 46/19 48/22 49/3)
49/8 51/19 53/9 55/17)
56/2 61/8 61/18 63/25
69/1 71/6 74/16 75/21
76/7 78/3 78/7 78/24
79/16 81/4 87/24 92/6
94/6 95/4 104/17
112/11 112/24 113/10)
115/3 115/19 116/15
119/1 122/3 124/4
126/25 131/5 134/6
135/20 140/9 140/10
142/3 142/7 142/11
143/10 146/1 146/5
(74) very... - whoO
Ww
who... [7] 146/16
162/13 163/10 168/19)
170/18 170/22 173/2
who'd [2] 73/7
166/12
whole [8] 38/7 65/5
75/19 98/13 101/2
101/13 101/18 108/11
whom [4] 50/20 64/2
64/2 120/9
why [48] 26/23 27/17
37/15 38/9 48/23
50/14 50/23 64/20
64/21 70/18 74/5
75/11 77/17 77/23
78/2 79/8 80/20 81/2
81/6 91/22 92/25
93/21 95/23 96/25
98/3 100/21 102/6
102/8 115/18 115/20
117/10 117/13 123/20}
124/9 124/11 128/10
128/23 134/14 135/3
146/10 148/12 154/23)
159/12 164/19 164/25
168/15 168/22 173/10
wide [1] 10/12
wider [1] 17/18
widespread [2] 83/13)
126/9
widest [1] 97/16
wife [4] 15/1 15/5
15/7 66/16
will [70] 10/18 24/5
24/18 27/25 28/2 29/5
30/12 30/13 32/20
33/19 35/8 35/10
35/13 48/1 56/16 61/6
63/10 76/13 77/5
79/13 80/10 85/13
86/5 88/19 89/13
90/17 90/18 90/19
90/19 91/21 92/1 92/2!
97/3 97/11 97/14 99/3
100/12 104/8 104/13
111/3 111/3 111/6
111/9 114/9 118/8
120/6 120/7 120/14
120/22 121/8 121/9
121/23 121/24 125/8
127/4 127/11 128/3
130/10 136/1 136/18
137/7 137/8 147/2
169/24 170/17 170/21
1714/5 171/9 173/23
174/18
Williams [1] 135/23
willing [3] 55/13
95/23 109/10
Willoughby [2] 48/2
89/16
wind [1] 121/22
wise [1] 38/20
wish [7] 55/12 55/13
57/11 97/12 131/16
144/14 171/8
wishes [1] 113/19
withdrawing [1] 25/8
withered [1] 35/25
withholding [2] 54/6
123/17
within [15] 13/23
27/9 27/25 29/3 35/1
47/12 56/16 106/21
109/16 114/4 120/7
133/3 141/15 159/4
168/2
without [12] 3/14
4/23 5/19 23/8 29/17
99/19 104/23 116/25
157/19 159/16 163/1
167/2
WITNO00970100 [2]
1/14 2/18
witness [23] 1/12
2/18 50/4 58/23 64/4
64/19 64/20 98/18
110/3 110/5 110/7
1410/9 110/10 110/13
123/8 130/8 139/23
170/13 170/19 171/1
171/14 174/4 175/12
witnesses [3] 93/17
171/21 173/12
wolf [1] 116/1
won [1] 83/15
won't [2] 134/12
167/9
wonder [1] 170/5
wondered [2] 83/11
83/13
wonderful [1] 164/15
wondering [1] 84/19
Wonderland [2]
173/6 173/7
word [5] 7/18 45/20
45/20 124/23 129/2
words [12] 7/6 10/22
59/1 59/23 60/4 60/5
101/21 106/11 145/11
154/2 154/3 163/16
work [22] 6/2 6/2 6/3
14/22 15/10 25/9
40/19 40/22 74/22
87/25 89/17 94/10
96/5 115/24 131/7
138/3 139/23 139/24
140/12 160/11 161/5
170/6
worked [26] 5/24
9/24 15/2 18/22 18/25)
24/16 50/1 60/9 67/23
81/5 95/4 102/22
104/18 109/20 109/20;
111/18 114/24 137/25)
138/1 139/20 143/5
146/18 146/22 146/24)
168/20 169/4
workers [6] 10/1 10/9}
12/10 12/16 13/5
13/11
working [16] 10/10
25/12 25/13 44/20
46/19 73/25 78/1
87/25 106/13 111/20
127/25 140/5 140/7
143/2 146/17 168/23
works [2] 113/3
113/5
world [7] 32/5 32/6
32/7 149/9 153/7
154/20 154/20
worried [2] 22/24
23/2
worries [1] 85/11
worse [1] 148/9
worst [1] 128/2
worth [5] 3/17 6/1
6/19 7/24 20/5
would [163] 4/4 4/17
717 10/23 13/6 15/5
15/5 15/7 19/18 19/19}
20/2 21/23 23/1 23/2
23/23 25/16 26/11
31/19 33/1 33/9 33/10)
33/15 33/15 34/1
35/17 35/18 35/22
35/24 36/3 38/6 38/8
38/11 38/16 39/9
45/15 45/18 47/3
47/11 48/5 49/11 50/1
50/11 50/20 51/24
51/24 53/14 59/3 60/1
60/6 62/1 64/24 65/4
66/5 66/10 67/3 67/12
67/16 67/17 67/24
68/4 68/7 68/13 68/14
68/15 69/10 69/11
71/25 72/1 72/2 72/3
72/18 73/10 74/4
75/16 76/9 81/10
81/13 81/14 85/20
87/17 89/5 89/6 90/11
91/18 92/25 93/3
93/14 93/22 95/17
95/22 96/4 96/5 96/17,
96/17 96/19 99/23
100/21 102/6 103/21
103/22 104/1 107/8
108/6 108/17 109/9
110/25 111/14 111/11
111/12 111/19 112/20
114/21 120/18 121/2
121/7 121/20 124/8
125/21 126/10 126/19!
134/19 136/7 136/11
136/12 136/22 136/24
142/10 143/21 143/22
143/23 144/12 144/14
146/10 146/19 146/23}
150/21 150/22 150/23
150/23 151/15 153/20}
153/21 157/16 157/18}
159/9 159/12 160/18
162/20 163/12 163/13
163/20 164/12 165/8
168/22 169/3 169/11
169/12 170/25 171/19}
171/23 172/6 173/6
173/19
would've [1] 95/11
wouldn't [11] 10/13
10/20 16/7 21/23 26/7I
38/15 78/11 95/7
122/7 139/7 172/21
wouldnae [1] 172/9
wound [2] 18/17 54/2
wrap [1] 28/4
wreck [4] 114/20
115/5 115/11 115/12
writ [1] 166/10
write [6] 4/24 5/14
56/24 112/18 118/17
124/6
writing [3] 55/8 99/8
124/4
written [2] 74/18
17114
wrong [22] 5/8 16/1
48/13 56/19 72/18
73/24 74/4 84/8 86/18
101/4 107/23 117/25
133/9 133/16 138/13
144/17 146/25 156/8
156/9 158/8 168/17
172/10
wronged [1] 166/13
wrote [2] 12/12
167/24
Y
yeah [42] 20/16
24/24 26/21 28/14
28/24 31/4 40/4 42/13)
43/6 46/20 50/5 59/24
68/15 72/12 76/25
80/14 80/14 80/14
96/18 102/23 103/21
104/1 105/11 105/11
113/3 114/9 117/8
132/1 155/19 156/14
157/3 157/19 158/15
161/22 161/22 161/23}
161/24 162/4 162/20
162/21 164/1 171/12
year [46] 8/1 8/11
8/25 10/16 10/23
14/13 14/16 16/11
16/19 17/10 19/9
19/17 20/13 22/17
22/22 24/3 31/22
32/11 34/20 34/21
34/22 40/5 40/6 42/4
66/18 74/20 76/10
81/4 83/15 83/21
83/22 84/11 114/19
115/5 115/10 120/23
121/21 145/12 145/15)
152/1 167/6 167/11
169/16 169/18 169/22)
172/4
year's [2] 31/1 122/4
years [57] 2/1 3/8 9/3
10/17 12/23 14/11
14/14 14/16 15/17
15/21 16/19 16/20
17/23 18/3 18/20
22/10 22/11 22/11
23/6 26/10 27/14
31/14 34/24 35/9 36/8I
41/14 46/3 59/7 65/4
66/10 71/11 74/23
78/3 78/17 79/18
80/25 83/5 87/14
101/3 103/1 105/7
116/17 119/22 122/9
131/20 133/5 142/10
144/24 148/15 148/16)
152/18 154/16 154/16)
163/1 167/23 172/14
173/4
yes [57] 1/4 2/9 2/11
11/12 13/15 13/17
16/17 17/14 25/6
28/13 30/2 36/21 43/6I
43/9 44/19 46/3 46/13
47/2 48/7 50/7 50/13
50/22 54/10 60/7
67/23 72/1 72/3 91/1
91/5 103/1 107/4
111/19 112/20 117/9
117/17 123/22 125/1
129/16 130/2 131/1
131/19 134/16 135/16)
145/9 149/7 150/1
150/5 151/8 154/9
160/1 160/3 161/12
162/17 162/17 165/13)
171/13 171/18
yesterday [1] 143/13
yet [7] 34/18 60/24
71/9 104/14 124/22
140/19 162/16
you [665]
you'd [5] 22/6 96/16
123/24 162/15 163/15)
you'll [1] 126/1
you're [59] 5/12 7/8
7/9 20/12 22/2 22/19
27/19 27/21 39/19
44/9 46/23 50/17
50/20 51/8 52/5 52/13}
52/14 52/16 52/23
59/6 62/2 66/22 76/18I
79/23 80/16 80/17
80/18 90/1 90/2 90/2
90/5 90/15 94/18
101/14 105/2 106/20
(75) who... - you'reO
Y
you're... [23] 107/16
109/15 112/5 124/22
124/23 124/24 134/24}
148/25 151/7 152/2
153/6 153/8 153/11
154/6 154/22 157/6
157/10 161/4 161/4
163/23 164/5 166/7
173/10
you've [35] 13/4
16/13 18/19 21/2 31/2
45/1 45/2 45/20 50/3
50/10 51/1 51/9 58/12,
65/20 65/21 67/8 68/3
79/23 90/3 96/11
110/4 110/14 115/15
124/23 126/17 127/5
132/25 134/22 149/20
149/20 157/8 161/3
163/5 163/7 170/13
your [157] 1/9 1/20
1/22 2/12 2/17 2/19
7/19 9/22 11/14 11/19
12/15 13/16 13/20
13/21 15/5 15/10
18/10 19/2 20/7 20/23
21/20 21/21 22/3
23/17 25/20 27/13
27/21 30/1 33/1 38/17
41/2 42/6 42/20 43/2
44/24 45/1 45/2 45/3
45/5 50/4 50/11 50/21
51/21 52/14 55/16
56/20 57/2 57/2 57/13,
57/14 59/1 59/1 59/23)
60/4 60/5 60/8 61/15
61/17 61/22 67/3
67/13 68/18 70/4 70/5
70/8 70/19 70/20
74/13 75/5 75/5 75/7
75/7 75/17 76/3 77/6
77/8 79/15 85/6 85/7
85/20 87/6 87/7 89/4
90/3 90/16 90/23
92/19 92/20 97/12
99/2 99/3 99/12 99/22
100/13 100/19 101/23
102/8 109/13 109/15
110/7 110/9 110/10
110/23 111/10 111/11
114/24 115/6 115/21
118/21 123/9 124/3
125/14 126/14 131/18)
133/23 134/4 134/20
137/4 144/19 144/21
146/9 146/11 147/2
149/15 151/3 151/6
151/21 152/3 152/10
152/12 153/15 153/22
153/22 153/25 154/3
154/7 157/17 160/9
161/3 161/4 161/13
161/16 162/5 163/6
163/10 163/17 163/17)
166/9 168/4 168/12
169/19 170/1 170/13
170/19 171/4 171/21
174/4
yours [1] 43/5
yourself [12] 14/21
28/8 28/12 35/5 37/5
56/24 108/24 117/13
148/4 153/10 161/9
168/10
yourselves [3] 30/16
128/24 138/17
yous [3] 148/12
173/20 173/23
Zo
zoom [1] 101/18
Zurich [7] 16/2 16/3
16/9 16/11 16/17
16/22 16/24
(76) you're... - ZurichO