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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry 24 September 2024
Tuesday, 24 September 2024
(10.00 am)
SARFARAZ GULAM ISMAIL (continued)
Questioned by MR BLAKE (continued)
MR BLAKE: Good morning, sir. Can you see and hear me?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, thank you very much.
MR BLAKE: Thank you very much.
Mr Ismail, we're going to stick to the topic of
culture and I'm going to ask you to begin with about two
different branches and your experiences in respect of
those, starting with Wibsey Bank branch. At
paragraph 51 of your witness statement, you told the
Inquiry that, after your election, you visited branches
to get feedback, and one of those branches was
a postmaster from Wibsey Bank, and they gave you some
feedback. Can you expand upon that, please?
A. Yes. So once I had been elected, for me to understand
feedback from a wide range of postmasters, it was very
important that I could relate and ensure I understood
what rural postmasters wanted, high street postmasters,
and town centre, different types of branches, strategic
partners also. Hence, I organised a visit with my own
initiative to Bradford, and I was accompanied by the
Area Manager, Mel Shepherd, and we visited a postmaster
at Wibsey Bank. We had an interesting conversation and
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off. I've got annual leave".
And from seeing that in 2018, that was one of my
motivations to try to make a difference. Hence, why
I wanted to see -- have things actually changed, do
postmasters feel differently? And then to hear what did
at Wibsey Bank, it was tough, but I knew what my
starting point was to try and ensure I can make some --
make a difference to this organisation.
Q. Moving on to another branch, the Yateley branch. You
described at paragraph 207 onwards in your witness
statement an issue with that particular branch. Can you
tell us about that?
A. This -- I was in shock, I was stunned to learn about the
situation that occurred in this branch. And the Voice
of the Postmaster group, an individual called Brent, who
forwarded an email to me that had been raised by this
postmistress, and she's again an active postmistress who
was working at the Yateley branch with her husband, and
he died all of a sudden overnight. And in trying --
this business should be helping postmasters. What they
put her through, the conversations that I had with her,
she was in tears while she was talking to me.
Q. What was the specific problem that she faced when her
husband passed away?
A. So her husband was the postmaster and, as a business, we
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what he advised me was, "If I ask you to do something,
will you do this for me?"
I said, "Depends what it is. What are you
thinking?”
And he said, "When you go back to Board, when you
speak to the wider Executive, when you speak to the
powers that be within this organisation, tell them we're
not animals, we're postmasters. Please treat us
fairly", and that was a comment and a quotation that
I ensured I mentioned at several Board meetings and to
individuals on the wider Executive.
And what was very disappointing was I didn't see any
urgency, any interest, unfortunately, in addressing the
specific postmaster or the issues that may be affecting
them or concerning them and, for me -- and I've
mentioned this in my statement -- in 2018, I lost
a close friend, who was also a postmaster at the main
town centre office in Preston, and he was one of the few
individuals who practically held my hand when I first
became a postmaster, and the business did nothing.
The business wasn't even interested, to a point at
which, on the day of his funeral, nobody from the Post
Office attended. He was an active postmaster and there
was -- at one point, one of the staff members I spoke to
actually said to me "Well, I can't attend, it's my day
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cancelled the contract within ten days and we gave her
No justification for that. Instead, we provided data
that was very difficult for her to understand. She was
grieving, and the Post Office cancelled her contract,
made her life more difficult. And what was really
upsetting -- and this is a cultural test within the
organisation at that point for me, this was a really
important cultural test -- this case passed at least ten
individuals within the organisation, none of them took
accountability and the only point at which something
started to happen was when it came to me, and I then had
conversations with Tracy Marshall.
I also had conversations with Nick Read and, to be
fair to Nick Read and credit to him, I said, "Nick, you
need to have a conversation because she's not happy this
is what we've done", and Nick made time that very day
and called her.
So moving forward, in order to help her be in
a position to still be able to operate, I then had to
reach out to Martin Edwards and Paul Liddiard, who were
fantastic, in assisting this postmaster so she could
still stay open. Her business should have been the
least of her worries. The funeral of her husband hadn't
even happened yet and the Post Office was creating
another major issue and obstacle for her to go through,
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unfortunately.
I'd like to look at some correspondence. Can we please
turn to POL00448379, please. This is an email of 4 July
2023. Was this before or after it had been raised
internally with -- we see Nick Read is copied into this
email?
This is after that has happened. So once she's -- her
world has been torn apart - and she felt very
vulnerable, this postmistress, may I add, and what the
business then did -- and this was part of a strategy
called Drop and Collect, and what happened was -- and
this wasn't specifically just for this postmistress.
The Post Office, in order to comply with the 11,500
requirement that Government has set for branches, has
a Drop and Collect strategy which came to the strategy
day in '21 and '22.
Now, there was challenge by myself and Elliot
because the radius wanted to be reduced and we also put
other conditions down, and the other conditions were
ignored, and the 0.5 radius was used in order to ensure
we hit 11,500. So what's happened in this scenario,
hence the email, was the Yateley postmistress has had
a customer coming in, informing her, "Why is the Post
Office opening other branch down the road? I thought,
after what you've been through, I thought you were
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I'd like to take you to the attachment, so that's
the announcement or the communication. We can find that
at POL00448788. I'll just read couple of passages. It
says:
"Dear Customer ...
"We are writing to inform you that, for reasons
beyond our control, Yateley Post Office had to close on
Thursday, 8 June 2023, and it reopened on Tuesday,
13 June 2023. The Post Office is temporarily operating
‘on reduced hours from Monday to Friday ...”
Then the next paragraph says:
“Additionally, the Outreach services at Datchet,
Crowthorne and Tudor Drive Outreach, operated by the
postmaster from Yateley Post Office, ceased from
Wednesday, 21 June 2023. Please accept my apologies for
the late notification on this occasion. We have
completed a review of the service provision in Datchet,
Crowthorne and Tudor Drive, and currently we are not
looking to open a replacement service at this time."
Is this the correspondence that was being referred
to?
No.
This is a separate communication?
This correspondence was, once the postmaster had passed
away, in order to meet customer expectations, this was
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struggling". That's the conversation they that, and she
didn't know.
She then contacted her Area Manager who also said
they didn't know and, unfortunately, with the Drop and
Collect strategy, this was very, very common:
postmasters finding out by surprise that they wouldn't
necessarily be informed, unfortunately, and, like
I said, neither would the Area Managers.
So that's the opening up of branches near existing
branches?
Yes, to meet the 11,500 criteria the Government --
So that's 11,500 branches?
Yes.
You say here:
"I'm extremely disappointed after everything this
[postmistress] has been through, we have put this
communication out without informing her.
"This is unacceptable and she's fuming as it was
shown to her by a customer.
"The number of issues this [postmistress] has been
through shows we still have a very long way to go as
a business. We need to ask some serious questions about
‘our organisation and our people, are we really changing
the culture within our organisation? Are we trying to
be postmaster centric?"
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the correspondence to inform day-to-day customers about
what's been going on.
So there are two issues there --
Yes.
-- the one that you've referred, which was the opening
up of the branch --
Yes.
-- and this was the original correspondence --
Yes.
-- following the passing of her husband, which refers to
her branch having to close for reasons beyond the Post
Office's control?
Yes. The other correspondence for the Drop and Collect
would be different, yes.
What was your view of this particular notification?
It's what we had to do to inform customers. I think
it's fine. Maybe it's a bit overcomplicated for
customers, I would have expected it to be simpler but
there's a lot that the business needs to learn about
communication.
If we scroll down on this particular communication, it's
from somebody called Graham Brander. Are you aware of
Mr Brander's involvement in this matter?
No.
Are you aware that Mr Brander was a witness in Phase 4
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of the Inquiry and had been involved in the
investigations of Jo Hamilton, Julian Wilson and Lynette
Hutchings?
No. This goes back to the point -- sorry, to clarify
what I raised yesterday -- redeployment, recycling,
rejoining the gravy train; it's just not helpful. And,
again, I should have been aware but I've never been told
until today.
Mr Brander was somebody who left the Post Office and was
rehired in 2019; were you aware of that or that process?
No, there's never been any specific communication to the
Board of who had left the business, what terms they have
left the business on, and why they've been rehired.
We've never, ever actually been given that from Legal,
HR, the People team.
Seeing that and knowing now what you know, does that in
any way affect your views of the Yateley issue?
Highly inappropriate. He should not have been involved
and, if I had known this at the time, I would have
definitely raised that.
Thank you. We're going to move on now to the topic
of --
Sorry, just one other point.
Yes, absolutely.
I'm not sure even the postmistress at this branch is
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bottom addressing the Historic Shortfall Scheme, the
Post Office IT Inquiry, and convicted postmasters. Did
you receive any significant training or background
information on those issues when you first joined?
No, and just to give you a bit more context, I think,
looking back now, from my observations at the time, that
there was an understanding within the wider Executive
and the Board that everybody knew about these issues,
and everybody doesn't: not many customers were even
aware until the ITV drama. So in hindsight, yeah, there
should have been better training but it was a very high
level overview of what we were provided.
Thank you. That can come down.
On investigations policy, I'd like to look at
a document that relates to Project Birch. Can we please
turn to POL00423697, please. This is a KPMG review of
the Post Office's current investigations process and
it's dated 13 August 2021, so shortly after your
appointment as a Non-Executive Director. Do you recall
being provided with a copy of this?
No. It was in the bundle that you sent me but I don't
remember seeing this.
You don't remember any significant discussion about its
contents?
No.
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aware because, if they were, I'm sure they would have
raised it with me.
Yes. I'm going to move on to the topic of prosecutions
and investigations. Paragraph 43 of your witness
statement, you've said that you received minimal and
cursory information regarding ongoing issues that the
Post Office has been dealing with. Can you briefly
assist us with that, with your views on that?
So, as part of my submission, I've included Board decks
from the beginning of my tenure as an NED, and some of
these decks were 811 pages, and they were -- some of the
decks included cases like Jo Hamilton, Bates, Lee
Castleton, and, as an economics graduate, for me to
appraise data, commercials, figures, no problem, all day
long I can do that. But I'm not a lawyer and not many
people on the Board are lawyers. So I don't think the
business did enough to equip NEDs, and other individuals
‘on the wider Executive who are also not lawyers, to be
able to appraise documents effectively.
If we look at a slide pack, I think, from your initial
training, it can be found at POL00448401. This appears
to be a page from a UKGI training presentation; is that
right?
Yes.
We see there, there are a few bullet points at the
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Can we please turn to page 10 and we can see some of the
Executive summary and I'll just take you to some of the
key points. There's a current state assessment, it
says:
"[The Post Office's] decentralised model provides
individual business teams with the independence to
develop their own investigations framework, however
there is limited central oversight over these frameworks
and the policies and processes that have been adopted by
individual business teams.
"Whilst this model utilises the experience and
expertise of staff within the business teams it means
that across [the Post Office] there is no overarching
consistency over:
"how investigations are undertaken;
"the experience and qualifications of the
investigators;
“the application of investigation minimum standards
especially in relation to high risk cases; and
"the recording and reporting of investigations
data."
The final paragraph at the bottom there says:
“Currently investigations are often undertaken
within [the Post Office] from a contractual perspective
and there is little consideration at the start of
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an investigation as to whether it could potentially
result in criminal, civil or disciplinary proceedings.
Early engagement with [Post Office] Legal would enable
proper consideration of criminal or civil standards or
consideration of when to liaise with [I think that's law
enforcement agencies].”
It then says:
"In addition, there is no overall central monitoring
of the investigations process and no visibility over the
overall investigations population. As a result [the
Post Office] have no comprehensive analysis over the
number or type of investigations it undertakes including
those that are high risk."
Then it sets out some issues with governance and
process. The first:
"Investigations are not conducted consistently
across [the Post Office] ..."
If we turn over the page, we see some more points in
bold:
"Lack of overarching governance and oversight over
high-risk investigations ...
"... no clear consistent triage process ...
"Lack of consistent monitoring and order over all
investigations ...
"There is no consistent approach to quality
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email the approach was more about protecting the CEO,
which I was disappointed because, when it comes to
a postmaster, as we've seen in the past and as we spoke
about yesterday, the approach is very, very different.
Postmasters can be suspended either, and when it came to
this specific document, as I've said, I would have
expected this to be brought to Board and I would have
expected some kind of benchmarking in terms of where we
were in our approach to try and ensure we did what the
report said.
But you don't know what you don't know, hence why
I couldn't challenge this, because I wasn't aware of it
unfortunately.
So having sat on the Board when this was produced and
subsequently, are you not aware of any significant
discussion in that respect, in respect of those bullet
points, for example?
No. No.
Can we please turn to POL00448320. This is a report to
the Board of September 2022, so a year later. This is
entitled "Post Office Investigations: Next Steps", and
this is addressing what's going to happen in respect of
prosecutions of individuals and the relationship with
Post Office Investigations Team. If we scroll down, we
can see under the "Executive Summary” it talks about how
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assurance across the business teams ...
"There is limited evidence of ‘lessons learnt’ and
continuous improvement arising from investigations
across [the Post Office].”
Over the page, please.
"Business teams often use Area Managers and Line
Managers to conduct investigations ...
"There is a lack of training in respect of
investigations across [the Post Office] ...
"There is no consistent use of an investigations
case management tool across [the Post Office] ..."
Were you aware or were these matters brought to your
attention when you joined the Board or shortly
thereafter?
No, the investigations into postmasters are treated
differently, from what I've observed, and the
investigations into the wider Executive are treated
differently. In April '24, when I raised concerns into
the investigations into the CEO, the response I got from
Amanda Burton was the investigation -- I asked for very,
very simple parts of information, which was what's the
cost of the investigation and what were the
instructions?
And until today Amanda's never given that to me,
which was really disappointing, and she confirmed in
the central investigations unit will be staffed and it's
the bottom bullet point I'd like to ask you about. It
says:
"Post Office has no appetite to pursue private
prosecutions. However, it is proposed that Post Office
Investigators conduct investigations into suspected
criminality and to report what has been evidenced to law
enforcement and prosecutors in all four nations of the
UK. The rationale being to act as a deterrent and to
seek financial restitution through the independent and
external criminal justice system."
Do you recall receiving this particular paper for
the board?
Not specifically, no.
Do you remember discussions about Post Office
Investigators conducting investigations into suspected
criminality and reporting, thereafter, to law
enforcement?
No, and this is another example of there's so much
that's brought to the Board. This should be a key
issue, and it shouldn't be for noting, as the paper says
at the top. This should have been a discussion --
If we scroll up, we see there "Input Sought" and it's
a noting paper.
That's unacceptable. This should have been
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adiscussion. And it's, again, getting lost in the
noise because of how much information is brought to
Board, unfortunately.
If we could turn, please, to page 4, we see the
recommendation there at 2.4. If we could just scroll up
slightly so we still have that table. It says:
“It is our recommendation that the minimum remit of
the investigation function is option 4."
If we look at the table above, option 4
investigations into Post Office and Post Office staff,
postmasters and postmasters’ staff. So it includes
postmasters’ staff:
"This would allow [the Post Office] to act in
determining facts relating to situations ranging from
allegations of theft or fraud by postmasters and/or
their staff using/misusing [Post Office] systems or
functions where either or both [Post Office] and the
postmasters are victims ..."
Just pausing there, in respect of the issue of
victims and the Post Office and whether it is a victim
or not, is that the kind of language that you've seen
being used in Post Office documents?
I've seen it being used in the documents that were
presented to me in the bundle for my evidence but, prior
to that, I was not sighted on them documents.
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a bit fairer to postmasters, and there were some
prosecutions that happened due to the postmaster being
responsible but it was their team or their staff members
as a result, and that was the discussion that we had.
And, like I said, yesterday, I did want to follow
that up to get the tonality right and that never
happened. But, for me, looking at this document, if the
business wanted to learn from the past, there's
a line -- where's it gone? (Pause)
So I think the starting point should have been for
the entire investigation element to be external. That's
how you learn from the past. I don't -- from my
observations, what I've seen, discussions with
postmasters, I'm not sure this business can control
investigations -- investigations and investigators,
hence why, from my perspective, the right solution would
be to have an external third party deal with the all of
that.
If we turn, please, to page 6, we see there at the top
it says:
"This paper asks the Board to note that the [Central
Investigations Unit] staff are to conduct criminal
investigations within the [Investigation Branch's] remit
and report these matters to police when appropriate and
in accordance with the CLEP."
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Q. We'll look at those documents shortly.
"_. through to misconduct or process failings in
[the Post Office] and the subsidiaries. The Horizon
issue identified a failure to investigate beyond the
postmaster in determining culpability. Best practice
(and in some situations, law) requires that all lines of
inquiry to be followed, whether they point away or
towards the considered investigative hypothesis as it is
the truth that is sought, not that a case is to be made
against a selected individual. By investigating wider
than the postmasters ..."
It then says:
for example their staff, when relevant, we
demonstrate that [the Post Office] has learned from the
past and would seek to determine actual culpability, if
any, which is treating the postmasters fairly."
It's that reference there to "for example their
staff when relevant" that I wanted to ask you about.
Are you aware of any discussions taking place about the
extent to which the investigation should also look at
the actual underlying systems, so the Horizon system?
No. When I had my discussion in October '23 with JB and
Sarah Gray, there was no mention of the integrity of
Horizon, and it was a case of trying to work -- trying
to see what's actually going on, maybe trying to be
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As you said, it was a noting paper and you don't
recall any particular discussion about that at the
Board?
No.
What is your view as to whether the investigators, or
even whether subpostmasters have access to sufficient
information in respect of investigations?
So, again, from what I have seen and my discussions with
postmasters, they are provided with data, and it's very
difficult to understand that data. Horizon is very
complex and translating that data into some form to
conduct an investigation is a challenge but then being
a normal postmaster and having to understand the way
it's written to defend yourself, again, is equally
difficult. And again, from discussions that I've had
with individuals, there is very limited visibility in
terms of investigations and material given.
Previously, and very recently, should I say,
individuals were not allowed a legal representative and
thanks to myself and Mr Jacobs we have pushed hard and
now individuals are allowed to have a legal
representative. It's unfair, it's unhelpful, and when
the business has got a starting point of defending
itself and not a neutral position, I think it's grossly
unfair.
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We did challenge the investigations last year; have
you got the correspondence for that?
We will probably get to that in due course.
Okay, fine.
This particular Board report that we just looked at was
from September 2022.
Okay.
You have said in your evidence and you've said in your
witness statement that it wasn't until after the ITV
drama that a number of Board members told you that they
hadn't understood properly the impact on subpostmasters
and how they had been treated. Can you give us some
examples of those kinds of conversations that you had?
So the January Board meeting is something I don't think
I'll be able to ever forget. It was a cultural
awakening for some of the Board members. The ITV drama
had happened and the Executive Team -- some of the
Executive Team, should I say -- came to that Board
meeting and it started with a discussion on the ITV.
drama. And one of the individuals who mentioned how he
received threats that his children -- people hoped his
children would commit suicide, it was very
disappointing. The CEO received death threats. There
were so many things going on.
However, the Board acknowledged that they should
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next. It's an email from yourself to Mr Bartlett. So
Mr Bartlett was the Head of the Investigation Team or
the Central Investigations Unit?
Yeah, he's an ex-police officer and he's the individual
responsible.
You say:
"I was hoping to visit your team in Chesterfield ...
"Does this work for you?"
Can you give us a bit of background? Why were you
hopping to visit his team in Chesterfield?
For me, watching the ITV drama, obviously knowing what's
happened in the past and trying to get it right, I felt
that was my duty, as a postmaster NED, for me to ensure
the organisation is run properly, and this was a major,
major issue that needed to be resolved. And it was,
again, building on the conversation that we had, just to
try to help put the business in a better place.
If we scroll up, please, we can see he responded to say:
"Unfortunately my team is dispersed all over the
country and is not based at Chesterfield. We do
sometimes go to Chesterfield for training days, etc, so
I'll let you know when the next session will be.
Alternatively, if you're happy to speak to the team on
Teams, then we can organise that very easily ...
"It would be really good to speak to you and the
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have done more to support the wider Executive and that
was a mistake on our part: hands up, no problem.
However, individuals on the Board and some of the
discussions that took place, some people thought it was
a dramatisation, what ITV did. However, myself and
Mr Jacobs at the Board meeting were pretty clear that
this is the reality, this is what subpostmasters go
through and the tonality, the way ITV delivered
an exceptional piece, was bang on.
Were your views taken on Board in that respect?
I expressed them. I'm not sure if Board members did but
I definitely expressed them, and nothing's happened for
me to be able to say -- or some kind of a test, in terms
of okay, they definitely took it on Board. I'm sure
they heard what I had to say and what Mr Jacobs had to
say.
Were any contrary views expressed at that meeting?
No, no. Not that I can recall, no.
Sticking with investigations and criminal
investigations, can we please turn to POL00448616.
We're still in the same period. We're now on 4 January
at the bottom of this page into the next page. So
that's during the time of the Bates drama, I think it
may have finished perhaps that day. If we scroll down,
please, thank you. The bottom of this page into the
22
team so thank you for offering to do this."
If we scroll up, that's 4 January. The top email,
I know it says the "1/6" but I think that's actually
6 January; is that right?
Yeah.
It says:
"Thank you for your email, I am happy to work with
your suggestions and maybe it's better to speak to the
new team members early Feb? Also I'm happy to speak to
them team in person when your team are in Chesterfield,
let me know the dates several weeks in advance please."
Then you say:
“Lastly, did you have a think about our discussions
regarding investigations team when we spoke at Wood
Street?"
Can you assist us, what was the discussion at Wood
Street?
As I said yesterday, it was trying to get the tonality
right of what they are doing, getting postmasters
involved to ensure the Investigation Team is in the
right place, and watching the documentary and seeing how
people were treated, how postmasters were treated,
I felt morally it was my duty to try to get this in the
right place.
So you had raised it with Mr Bartlett. That was.
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a drinks reception or something, was it?
Yeah, in October '23 with Mr Bartlett and with Sarah
Gray.
Was there a response to this request?
No.
Do you know why not; was there a discussion at all?
No. No.
I'm going to turn to some correspondence relating to
a criminal investigation. Could we please turn to
FUJ00243203. Could we please turn to page 3. This is
correspondence between the Post Office and Fujitsu,
relating to an ongoing police investigation. This email
is sent by Simon Oldnall. Do you know Mr Oldnall at
all?
Yes.
He's there as the Horizon IT Director?
Yes.
So he's not part of the Investigation Team?
No.
No. He has emailed Daniel Walton, who is the Head of
the Post Office Account at Fujitsu, so perhaps his
counterpart at Fujitsu, and he says:
"I understand from John [that's Mr Bartlett] that
there have been some challenges with supporting
an ongoing police investigation that involves a large
25
"[City of London police] has informed us that they
have not had any additional information nor contact with
Fujitsu after the single, exploratory and inconclusive
conversation. They left the conversation with the
feeling that they were indirectly being told that the
Horizon system was unreliable and so the case could not
progress. We really need to explore this as this is not
the nuanced impression Simon Oldnall has given me.
“As the potential victim in the case, [the Post
Office] would be grateful if you can provide me with
contact details for either the equivalent person in
Fujitsu (in the UK) to my role (ie in charge of
investigations, or perhaps the Head of Security if you
do not have a dedicated investigation team) or [the]
appropriate person in your UK Legal Team. I will then
pass [these] details on to [the City of London Police]
who are looking to have a trilateral conversation with
Fujitsu, [Post Office] and [City of London Police].”
Just before we get to the next paragraph, what is
your view in respect of what's said there about Post
Office being the potential victim in the case and
needing to liaise with Fujitsu?
I feel it reinforces what I've said, which is the
starting point of Post Office Limited when it comes to
investigations. Hence, why I just don't feel it's
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sum of money.
"I obviously understand broader context, but wanted
[to] reassure that [the Post Office] is supporting the
police investigation and offering any and all assistance
we can. Can I ask that you help with any conversations
that City of London police need to have with Fujitsu
Services Limited."
If we scroll up, we can see a response from
Mr Walton of Fujitsu. He says:
"As this is a legal matter, [Fujitsu Legal] are
communicating with the City of London Police.
“I am not involved in those communications, and in
any event, [Fujitsu] considers it inappropriate for Post
Office and [Fujitsu] to be discussing a police
investigation."
If we scroll, please, onto the first page, the
response from Mr Bartlett. Just before we get to the
response, were you aware this issue at this particular
time?
No.
The response from Mr Bartlett is as follows:
"One of my team has gone back to City of London
Police to see how the contact you referenced below was
progressing as we have an open and objective engagement
with the [City of London Police] on this matter.
26
appropriate for the business to be doing the
investigations.
Again, I wasn't aware of this until I received it in
my bundle.
It then continues:
"It is impossible to overstate how important this
is: I need to advise both the police and [the Post
Office] as to the evidentially-established reliability
(or not) of data that is being used every day additional
establishing outcomes with Postmasters and, potentially,
to be presented to the criminal justice system by the
police and the three public prosecuting agencies. The
non-provision of relevant witness statements from [the
Post Office] and Fujitsu will rightly be interpreted by
the police and prosecutors as [the Post Office] and
Fujitsu not having faith in the reliability of the data
with the obvious outcome resulting.
"Look forward to hearing from you and thank you in
advance."
Would you expect this kind of an issue to come to
the Board?
Yes. It's -- as I've said yesterday, it’s this
selective and filtering of information which is given to
the Board which is really disappointing.
There's then some correspondence between Mr Patterson,
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the CEO of Fujitsu Europe, and Mr Read, the Post Office
CEO. Can we please have a look at FUJ00243199. I'm
going to read from this later, 17 May 2024. So by this
time had the matter reached the Board?
No.
This is a month later.
"I am writing to you directly in order to raise
serious concerns that have come to my attention which
indicate that the Post Office continues to pursue
enforcement against postmasters and it expects [Fujitsu
Services Limited] to support such action.
"To be clear, [Fujitsu] will not support the Post
Office to act against postmasters. We will not provide
support for any enforcement actions, taken by the Post
Office against postmasters, whether civil or criminal,
for alleged shortfalls, fraud or false accounting.”
Then he addresses three topics, "in particular:
Criminal Investigations", and this is a reference to
that particular correspondence that we've just been
looking at:
"We have become aware of a recent investigation by
the City of London Police into a Post Office branch.
The approach of [Fujitsu] is to cooperate with the
police and any other third party exercising independent
investigative, prosecutorial, regulatory or judicial
29
Next, "Postmaster Redress":
"[Fujitsu] recognises that it holds Horizon related
information that may assist postmasters and post office
workers to appeal their convictions and/or seek
appropriate redress.”
Over the page, if we look at the final paragraph, he
says:
“Based on what I have seen and heard in the Inquiry,
there is a significant behavioural and cultural aspect
to the Horizon scandal. As leaders of our respective
organisations, I believe we are both committed to learn
the lessons necessary so that this appalling scandal can
never be allowed to happen again."
Now, there is a response, and we can find that at
FUJ00243201; this is a response from Mr Read. Were you
consulted about this response?
No.
Are you aware of the Board having been consulted about
the response?
No. Maybe with -- as said yesterday, because the Board
is tiered, maybe there was a discussion with the more
important Board members but certainly not with the Board
as a whole. And there were discussions with Fujitsu at
this time regarding a contract extension, so those
discussions definitely took place but this didn't.
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powers.
"However, we are concerned by the behaviour of the
Post Office Investigation Team on this matter. That
team maintains an approach of Post Office as 'victim'
and requires [Fujitsu] to provide a witness statement as
to the reliability of Horizon data stating that without
such statement the case will not progress. For the
investigations team to act in this matter seems to
disregard the serious criticisms raised in multiple
judicial findings and indeed, exhibits a lack of respect
to the ongoing Inquiry."
What's your view about what's written there?
I think Fujitsu are right in what they are saying and
I find it disappointing that this was not discussed at
Board.
The second point:
"Pursuit of Shortfalls from Postmasters:
"It seems that the Post Office may be continuing to
pursue postmasters for shortfalls in their accounts
using Horizon data. We would have expected that the
Post Office has changed its behaviour additional light
of the criticisms and is appropriately circumspect in
respect to any enforcement actions. It should not be
relying on Horizon data as the basis for such shortfall
enforcement."
30
The letter says as follows, 30 May 2024:
"I write further to your letter ... in which you
make a number of concerning statements about postmaster
enforcement."
If we scroll down, the letter says:
"I would like to reassure you that Post Office has
invested significant time and resource effecting
cultural and procedural change across the business,
taking on board the court's findings and ensuring that
‘our postmasters' interests are central to everything we
do. I would be keen to talk to you further about these
changes as it appears from your letter that there are
some fundamental misunderstandings at [Fujitsu] about
Post Office's current day culture and activities."
He then addresses each of the points.
"Criminal investigations", he says:
"Il can reassure you that Post Office is not now --
and will not be in the future -- undertaking any
prosecutions against postmasters or any third parties as
the prosecuting body."
Over the page, please, thank you. He says:
in respect of enforcement, Post Office's
requests only relate to cases where our teams are
supporting criminal investigations or prosecutions
pursued by independent third parties, such as the police
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or the Crown Prosecution Service."
So that's in line with the noting paper that we saw
earlier:
“In response to the specific case you raised,
potential criminal activities were identified in the
branch and Post Office therefore reported the matter to
the police. We have assisted with the police's
investigation, including providing supporting data from
the Horizon system.
"Naturally, it is vital to the police's
investigation that it can rely on the Horizon data it
has received. I am happy that you have confirmed in
your letter that [Fujitsu] will cooperate with the
police when it is exercising its independent
investigative powers as this case would require
a statement from [Fujitsu]. It is a matter for the
police and [Fujitsu] to determine the necessary content
of the statement.”
He then addresses the other two matters. Very
briefly, "Pursuit of Shortfalls", he says:
"As you are aware, civil recovery of losses was
stopped by the Post Office in 2018 so Horizon data is
not currently being used for civil recoveries ...”
If we go over the page, we see there the "Postmaster
redress":
33
papers on; is that right?
That's correct.
"from a Board meeting on 23 October, regarding
police investigations and postmasters, which I feel need
clarifying."
Can you assist us with this email and what your.
concern was?
So there was an item discussed at the October '23 Board
meeting regarding police investigations into potential
wrongdoings and how the investigations team, supported
by Legal, wanted to adopt a specific approach. So what
myself, Mr Jacobs and also Mr Tidswell, and other Board
members, all resisted saying, "No, we do not want to go
down this approach". And it was agreed for the
Investigation Team, so in this case JB, to come back
with what he was thinking in terms of some examples. So
as a Board, we could then appraise what's going on and
check the tonality.
Now, my alarm bells were ringing when I saw this
item had been closed. So for me, this created
misinformation within the wider Executive, based on
a decision that had not happened and, as my job as
an NED, I ensured I called that out, which is why I've
raised this with Mr Railton, and we have reopened this
item but I'm not sure if there's been any discussions
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"The reliability of Horizon data is also central to
the compensation and redress schemes which Post Office
is currently delivering, to right the wrongs of the
past. I welcome your confirmations that [Fujitsu] will
provide Post Office with information ..."
Do you have any views on that response?
It's disappointing this letter went out the way it did,
and I think what this letter quite clearly shows is the
lack of control and oversight within this organisation,
where the CEO is implying a certain point, so we're not
prosecuting, but yet you've got investigators doing
investigating, and they are basically doing what we have
already seen previously on some of the other decks.
I want to take you to an email that you sent to the
Chair of Post Office in June, so that is POL00448398.
So that correspondence from Mr Read was 30 May this
year. This is then an email unconnected of 14 June this
year, entitled "Postmaster Police Investigations", and
you raise a concern there that information hadn't come
to the Board relating to prosecutions; is that right?
That's correct.
You say:
"There are some additional documents on Diligent
Diligent is a system that you can access Board
34
with CoSec or whoever took the minutes on the day as to
why such an incredibly important issue was closed when
it definitely was not closed.
Why was it that in June 2024 you were looking into the
issue of police investigations?
There was no specific reason, as such. For me,
there's -- I'm always thinking about how to make the
organisation better, and just going through what I have
to do as a director, looking at the action logs, just
double checking things, were they closed? What's open?
Is it assigned to the right person and, when I saw the
action log and I saw that closed, that's when I thought,
"Oh, hang on a minute, this is not right, I don't
remember this being closed". I confirmed with
Mr Jacobs, "Do you remember this being closed?", and he
said no, as well.
And yeah, I sent -- I'm not sure if you've got the
attachment to this -- I did also send the minutes to
corroborate with what I have said here and Mr Railton
agreed that this is not what was agreed.
By this stage, 14 June this year, had you been informed
about this correspondence between the CEOs of the Post
Office and Fujitsu?
No.
Would it have been relevant to the issues that you're
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raising here?
A. 100 per cent, yes. Just looking at the dates, it's such
a coincidence, but yeah.
Q. Do you know if Mr Read was aware of your concern that
was being raised here?
A. Maybe in hindsight I should have cc'd Mr Read in. But
I would have expected Mr Railton to have picked that up
as chair with Mr Read.
Q. Thank you. Can we turn to FUJ00243204.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Before we do that, Mr Blake can I just be
clear, Mr Ismail, about what you are saying about
Mr Read's letter, all right?
As I understand it, you are certainly saying that,
before Mr Read sent a letter like that to Mr Patterson,
there should have been some awareness of that or
a discussion of that at Board level, yes?
A. That's correct, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I I've got that point completely. What I'm
not sure about is whether you actually have an issue
with any of the contents of Mr Read's letter and, if so,
could you tell me what they are, and why you have those
issues.
A. Yes, for me the issues are the Post Office is just still
not seeing what everybody else is seeing, starting from
a victim's -- starting -- having a starting point as
37
an alleged crime of, say, theft or fraud to the police,
it should instigate an independent investigation by
someone other than the police before referring it?
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Is that what you're saying?
A. Yes, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: All right. I understand. Thank you.
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
There's now further correspondence on 8 July from
Fujitsu. That's FUJ00243204. That's another response
from Mr Patterson, I'll read to you a few passage from
that. He says:
“lam glad that we both share a commitment to learn
lessons from the Post Office Horizon scandal and to
ensure that the appalling treatment of postmasters and
the miscarriages of justice that occurred, could never
happen again. That was my reason for writing to you."
In the next paragraph, he says:
"In simple terms, the Post Office is requesting that
[Fujitsu] give expert opinion evidence to be used in
criminal proceedings against postmasters and post office
workers.
In your letter, you rightly note that the content
of any witness statement is a matter between the police
and [Fujitsu]. However, I consider it necessary to
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a victim is unacceptable and, for me, Mr Read's letter
shows the disconnect that exists within the organisation
and how information just doesn't seem to be passed, and
the silo working mentality, unfortunately, is still
rife.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I'm playing devil's advocate now, all
right, so nobody should misunderstand me but, if
an alleged crime has been committed, like, say, theft or
fraud, then there is an alleged victim, all right, and
it can only get to the police if the alleged victim
makes some kind of report or investigation and then
reports it to the police. I think that must be right,
must it not?
So isn't inevitable that the victim -- or the
alleged victim, let's choose our words very carefully --
must have a role to play at the very start of
an investigation, otherwise it never gets to the police.
A. That's correct, sir, but, as the Fujitsu letter stated,
the -- Fujitsu were happy to provide information based
‘on an independent third party verifying. Now, once that
happens, then, yes, I'm in agreement with you, but to
start from a position that echoes the past, I find
disappointing.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: All right. So am I right in thinking
that your point is that, before Post Office reports
38
address this issue with you because the request was made
by Post Office and because I consider the request to be
entirely inappropriate, particularly in the light of the
evidence being uncovered at the Inquiry.
"lL enclose with this letter", and it's the email
chain we've just been looking at.
He says:
“Mr Bartlett continues the prior narrative of seeing
the Post Office as the ‘victim’ and requests a witness
statement to address 'the reliability of the Horizon
system and the admissibility of evidence produced from
it. Mr Bartlett suggests that a failure to do this
would ‘rightly be interpreted by the police and
prosecutors as [the Post Office] and Fujitsu not having
faith in the reliability of the data with the obvious
outcome resulting’.
"A witness statement from [Fujitsu] attesting to the
reliability of the Horizon system and of that from it in
criminal proceedings would amount to expert opinion
evidence. [Fujitsu] is incapable of providing expert
opinion evidence as it is neither independent nor has it
sufficient information to provide such an opinion.
“As the Post Office is well aware, there has been
and there continue to be bugs, errors or defects in the
Horizon system. Further, [Fujitsu] currently has and
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previously had access to branch transaction records.
Your letter ... also acknowledges the existence of other
matters ... which could have operated to create innocent
discrepancies in branch accounts including '... miskeys,
or omissions when remitting cash of stamp stock based on
Horizon data ...' by end users."
It then refers to the Horizon system being reliant
‘on the "delivery of services by Post Office and third
parties”. If we scroll over, he says:
"Based on the evidence which has been seen and heard
in the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry, [Fujitsu]
considers that all of the matters mentioned above would
need to be investigated carefully by the Post Office and
the police, with the assistance of an independent
technical IT expert, and possibly also forensic
accounting expert, to ascertain proper explanations for
branch account discrepancies."
Just pausing there, we've seen in previous phases of
this Inquiry discussion about obtaining a statement from
an expert who can attest to the reliability of the
Horizon system. Are you aware of any discussions at
Board level about that topic?
No.
"[Fujitsu] considers that only after such
an investigation has been undertaken could a meaningful
41
evidence by the police or Crown Prosecution Service.
Post Office is aware of that and has not/would not
request that [Fujitsu] provides expert opinion
evidence."
He then says, about halfway down that first
paragraph:
"The police have raised questions regarding the data
and the Horizon system, and the AC&l Team ...
That's what was the Central Investigations Unit,
I think; is that right?
Yes.
"referred the police to [Fujitsu] -- as [the Post
Office's] provider of the system -- to obtain answers to
those questions. The feedback they received in April
2024 was that the police had only been able to have one
conversation with [Fujitsu] at the time and the
investigation officer's impression from that
conversation was that they were indirectly being told by
[Fujitsu] that the Horizon system was unreliable. As
a result, the police told the AC&l Team that the
investigation could not progress."
He then says:
“In light of the feedback from the police", and he
discusses the discussion about the letters.
If we go over the page, one more paragraph that I'll
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expert witness statement be made in subsequent criminal
proceedings which addresses the reliability of the
Horizon system and the relevant data produced. For the
reasons I have mentioned above, [Fujitsu] cannot provide
such a statement."
Then he addresses the topic of shortfalls.
I'll ask the same question that I've asked a number
of times: were you made aware of this communication?
No.
We then have Mr Owen Woodley, acting CEO, responding on
23 July, could we please turn to FUJ00243209. I know
I've done a lot of reading, I'll just read a few
passages from this letter. He says:
"I write further to your letter of 8 July addressed
to Nick Read, and to thank you for coming to our offices
... to meet with me."
The expert evidence point is addressed at the bottom
of this page. He says:
"Your letter said that Post Office was requesting
that [Fujitsu] give expert opinion evidence, to be used
in criminal proceedings against postmasters and post
office workers. That was not the case. As you rightly
say, [Fujitsu] is not able to provide expert opinion
evidence as it is not sufficiently independent for any
statements that it may provide to be deemed expert
42
read. He says:
"We discussed that Post Office had used the word
‘victim’ [so he addresses this victim issue] in
correspondence with [Fujitsu]. We both acknowledged
that while this may be a legally and factually accurate
description, it does not reflect the change in Post
Office's attitude towards postmasters."
Does that reflect your own opinion?
Yes.
Yes. Did you have a discussion with Mr Woodley about
that point?
No.
No.
The first time I saw this letter was last week when.
I received my bundle.
“Naturally, there will be instances where Post Office
has to use the proper legal term to describe matters
[for example] in correspondence with or evidence
provided to the police or the CPS. However, alternative
language will be used when discussing these matters with
[Fujitsu], other third parties and in internal Post
Office correspondence."
Are you aware of any kind of cultural change taking
place at the Post Office in the matter that's described
here, in terms of the language used within the business?
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Are you aware of any policies, for example, that the
Post Office shouldn't be referred to as a victim, save
for those circumstances identified here?
No.
"I am very clear that our communications must reflect of
the cultural change in the organisation."
He then addresses the postmaster shortfalls point.
The very final letter on this is the response from
Fujitsu of 26 July, and I'd just like to take you to
that. That is FUJ00243211. This is a letter sent to
Mr Woodley. Is this also a letter you hadn't seen
before receiving it from the Inquiry?
Yes, I have not seen this letter before.
He says:
“It is unfortunate that Nick was not able to attend
the meeting as discussed. The original purpose of
writing to Nick was to escalate, CEO to CEO the concerns
relating to certain behaviours within the Post Office.
It seems clear that the Post Office continues to have
significant cultural issues, sees itself as a ‘victim’
with the enforcement and prosecution of postmasters
considered as a business as usual activity of
a commercial retail company. As I stated in my
correspondence to Nick and during our discussion,
Fujitsu finds the language and the suggested behaviour
45
Would you expect a letter of this sort or the
correspondence that we've just been seeing to have been
addressed at Board level, in light of the relationship
between the two companies?
Yes. As Fujitsu is one of our biggest partners, I would
have expected that, yes.
And has that seeming breakdown in the relationship been
addressed at board level to the best of your knowledge?
No, because it's not been raised.
I'd like to ask you a few more issues on cultural issues
before we take our morning break. We're only taking one
morning break today but it will be 15 minutes long.
Equality and diversity issues you've raised in your
statement. You say at paragraph 25 that you've only
been invite to one equality, diversity and inclusion
meeting on 3 March 2022, despite being the EDI lead on
the board. Can you give us a little bit more detail on
that, please?
It's -- as I said in my statement, there's -- I was
appointed by Angela Williams as the lead when she was
the Chief People Officer, and I was only invited once,
and I'm not sure why. Some of the conversations I've
had -- so last month, for example, I had a conversation
with an individual of an ethnic minority, and just
a polite, "Hi, who are you", kind of conversation,
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unacceptable from Post Office investigators.
"I do not intend to engage further with the Post
Office on the matters I raised. We completely trust in
Sir Wyn and the Inquiry process which will examine the
extent of the Post Office change in Phase 7."
Aren't we back again to the school playground
a little bit here, with Fujitsu refusing to engage
further with the Post Office, and as seen in this
exchange of letters?
Yes, it does feel like that, yes.
I mean, how would you describe the relationship between
the Post Office and Fujitsu, insofar as you're aware?
From the updates that we received as NEDs at Board
level, the relationship wasn't the best, and I can
understand that, and we both need to work together, for
the short-term, at least. And until we have our New
Branch IT System ready, there's no way of exiting the
relationship with Fujitsu. So it was a case of get on
with it and make it work for the postmasters up and down,
the country.
The impression that's given by this correspondence is
a real breakdown in the relationship between the two of
you; would you agree with that?
Yeah, I can see -- I can see why it does look like that,
yes.
46
introductory conversation, and when I introduced myself,
he said to me, "Oh, I didn't know that you were on the
Board".
This organisation has a certain point where
individuals with diversity can get to and then, beyond
that, there is nobody, unfortunately.
I'd like to take you to some emailed correspondence from
last summer. Can we please turn to POL00448378.
If we start on page 2, please. You have written
there to Jane Davies. So what was Jane Davies’
position?
She was the Chief Retail Officer -- no, she was the
Chief People Officer, sorry.
Subject "Racism and employment practices". You are
writing to express your deep concerns about recent
issues regarding racism and employment practices at the
company:
“First, I was deeply troubled to learn from recent
articles that racism has been identified within our
business. As the D&l Board member, I am particularly
concerned that I was not informed of these issues until
a [postmaster] brought them to my attention. I believe
that we must address these issues head-on and ensure
that our company is a welcoming and inclusive
environment for all employees."
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(12) Pages 45 - 48
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Sticking to that first point, what was the
background to that?
There was -- it's there on the article from the Computer
Weekly. So there was an article on the Computer Weekly
website regarding -- was it regarding a document?
If we scroll down below the link, that might assist you.
Ah. So this was when individuals rang in to the call
centre in their time of need to report losses, and
people on the other side answering -- POL employees
answering calls were using the term "I've got another
Patel".
You have also mentioned here an issue with the rehiring
of staff members. How does that tie into the equality,
diversity and inclusion issues that you're raising?
I think it reinforces what I have already said.
What do you mean by that?
In terms of there's a specific make-up of individuals
this organisation hires and, by rehiring, we are never
deviating from that and, for me, what was clearly
evident, and I've raised on numerous occasions when
I started as an NED in early '21, throughout the
strategy days, to various individuals who joined the
organisation, the Post Office has to relate as
an organisation to the demographic of its postmasters.
There's got to be some kind of connection, so the
49
And I challenged back and I said, "Well, that's --
so then you're excluding postmasters".
And with my conversations with Mr Jacobs, he
confirmed to me as well, "Saf, I've got staff members
who will be fasting also, so I wouldn't be able to
attend".
So I don't think the business quite understood.
Now, common sense did prevail and Mr Woodley rightly,
once I have raised this with him, changed the dates to
afterwards. Now, the business was very keen to get them
events done before Phase 5 and 6 and -- rightly or
wrongly, but the timing just was not right.
If we scroll up on this email, we can see Mr Jacobs also
responds. He says he had had recent reports from
an Asian colleague who complained to him that he was
talked down to by a team member on the Helpdesk that
handles transaction correction queries. When he
challenged and claimed it was inaccurate and asked to
organise a visit to visit the Cash Centre to see the
evidence, he claims he was repeatedly obstructed and
told to accept the transaction correction.
He would add:
"... having visited the Cash Centre and watched the
CCTV he was 100% correct -- despite the claim by [the
Post Office] that the matter had been reviewed by
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hierarchy, the middle management, the Board, everybody
understands what postmasters are going through, and
an example of this was -- and it's in my witness
statement -- in April '24, when there was three events
organised during the month of Ramadan, and I received
an email. Firstly, I wasn't invited, neither was
Mr Jacobs, to postmaster listening events, and we were
both shocked because we had postmasters saying to us
"What's the point of you two being on the Board? We
don't hear from you, we don't know what you're doing".
So on the not hearing from us, in November '21
Richard Taylor advised both of us not to communicate on
social media or with any other postmasters, which was --
the way I certainly saw it was a lack of confidence in
our independence and what we're doing, and in trust.
Going back to the April '24, when these events were
organised, I raised the point that why we've not been
invited by the senior management. That was never
responded to. And my specific conversations at the time
with Tracy Marshall was "Okay, Tracy, if you want to do
these events throughout this period, just ensure that
you cater for individuals who are fasting. So please
have proper meals ready, ablution facilities, and mass
prayer facilities", and the response I got was "We don't
provide that.”
50
a supervisor."
If we scroll up, we can see a response from
Mr Tidswell, who says he thinks there are a number of
strands here. First:
"There is highly disturbing evidence from the
Inquiry about historical racism."
That was the identification codes issue; do you
recall that?
Yes.
Then there is a question about hiring practices:
".., to ensure that [the Post Office] is alert to
rehiring people who have a history at [the Post Office]
That's a matter we have already discussed today:
"There is the important need to ensure we have
a business today in which racism is not tolerated at any
level."
He says the report from Elliot about incidents is
very concerning.
Ms Davies, on the first page, at the top of the
first page, also says that:
"We have all been disturbed by this feedback ... and
it needs to be appropriately investigated and dealt
with. We are taking [steps], we should all get on
a call so we can update and agree appropriate steps."
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Do you think that sufficient steps have been taken
in this regard?
No.
Was there a conversation here where steps were agreed?
Not that I can recall, no. But I'm not sure how long
Ms Davies was in the business after this, but I would
have expected this to have been something -- an issue
that the People Team would have been taking seriously,
and I would have expected more than one individual to
take ownership of this.
Thank you. Very finally before the break, the topic of
bonuses. Within your statement, at paragraph 68 to 75,
you address what you refer to as an "unhealthy and
unjustified obsession with bonuses and remuneration".
Can you assist us with what you mean by that?
So, from my observations throughout being on the Board,
there was clearly -- there is clearly a culture which is
bonus led. So, firstly, between January '23 and March
"23, there was an obfuscation of RemCo papers by the
wider Executive, which resulted in Bonus Gate in May
‘23. Then we had recently discovered -- I had, should
I say -- that there was a RemCo pay grade over the last
six months. Being a Board member, I wasn't even aware
of this, so I challenged Amanda Burton, regarding this
specific RemCo pay grade, and in April '24, Amanda
53
I went back to Amanda, and I've disclosed the email,
outlining key metrics that should be used. Firstly,
I don't believe this business should have any bonuses.
However, what I've been told is it's part of the
contracts that have been agreed. Now, if our hands are
tied, then surely the metrics need to be right, which
need to be connected to the realities of postmasters.
So what are postmasters receiving in remuneration? What
is going on in terms of the organisation, in terms of
profitability? What about cutting central costs?
So these were my counterproposals, and I did that,
and it was at the Board meeting in June '24 or July '24,
very recently, when I challenged back to Amanda advising
"When are we going to implement?" And Amanda Burton --
and I was very disappointed with the response, it was
again the way I perceived it, protecting the wider
Executive to ensure bonuses are met.
All I was told was, "Sorry it's been agreed. We
have to stick with what we've got".
It might be suggested that there is a tension there
between being a subpostmaster and being a member of the
Board and potentially a conflict when it comes to those
kinds of remuneration issues. What would you say about
that?
I'm not sure it is. I can see why it looks like there's
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responded saying how, since 2019, certain individuals
had received pay increases up to 30 per cent since 2019,
whereas the reality is postmasters on the frontline have
not had a real increase since 2015. My own businesses,
my income is a couple of per cent, my costs have gone up
by 18 per cent in the last two years, clearly showing
how the culture is driven specifically, it's a bonus
culture within this business.
Then there was some communication again in April
with myself, Amanda Burton and Mr Jacobs regarding STIPs
and LTIPs. So the management put forward
a recommendation or their LTIPs. And, like I said,
yesterday, until the bonuses are being paid and until
the reassurance is given when they are paid, morale is
a little low, which we've heard on numerous occasions at
Board meetings last year also. And the recommendation
put forward for the LTIP, which is long-term incentive
payment, was complaints against postmasters. And when
myself and Mr Jacobs saw that email, we read it a few
times, thinking "What? How can that be?"
And we then went back to Amanda, and informed her
“Why is the wider Executive putting forward a metric
that they're not even in control of; how does that even
make sense?"
So then as part of my role and good governance,
54
aconflict. It's about bringing the reality of doing my
duty as a director to life. So my responsibility is,
and my fiduciary duty is, to ensure the business is run
correctly and to ensure the taxpayer, the shareholder,
has value for money and also ensure postmasters, past,
present, future, are treated well and the business is
run in an effective manner.
So seeing this is culture and not calling it out,
I feel, compromises my responsibilities. So
I appreciate how it does look like a conflict but, for
me, my role as -- my moral duty in calling it out is my
first responsibility and that's what I was doing.
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
Sir, that might be an appropriate moment to take our
morning break?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, of course. 11.40?
MR BLAKE: Thank you very much.
(11.26 am)
(A short break)
(11.40 am)
MRBLAKE: Thank you, sir. Can you see and hear me?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, thank you, yes.
MR BLAKE: We're going to move on to a new topic and that is
the New Branch IT System. Could we please bring onto
screen your witness statement, that's WITN11170100, at
56
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page 9, please. Thank you. If we scroll down the page
you've set out in your witness statement a number of
problems that you have faced with the current Horizon
system. At 31.1 you say:
"Horizon suffers from a lack of integration with
other systems ...”
If we move on to 31.2, I think you say that Horizon
systems are unnecessarily complex.
At 31.3, "not designing to cater for human error".
31.4:
"The daily and weekly reports are not easy to
analyse.”
31.5:
"There are issues with Horizon incorrectly reporting
the sum of foreign currency being held in a branch."
If we scroll down, 31.6:
"... issues with Horizon failing to recognise the
reversal of transactions."
34.7:
"_. experience of Horizon taking payments from
a customer twice ..."
Then:
"... incorrectly recording ATM transactions."
In principle, are you favour of a new IT system?
Yes.
57
I say -- the lack of training, the lack of
oversight/support. So, in order to address these
issues, to ensure the business doesn't make the same
mistakes as it has done in the past, the budget has
increased to ensure everything is incorporated for
positive implementation and a better experience.
In your statement, you have raised number of issues,
starting with hardware being purchased and sitting in
storage. Is that relating to the NBIT project or is
that something else?
No, that's in relation to NBIT so, again, we were told
at Board that we had to decide on the purchase of this
hardware so, as a Board, we then authorised in late '23
for the purchase of 30 million, because we were
instructed we had to make a decision and -- in order to
be ready to have the goods delivered, for the
implementation of the new system.
And at the time, we were told we were getting a very
good deal, hence why we did it at a discount,
5 per cent, something along them lines. Then Zdravko
left the business, we had Chris Brocklesby, and now
we've got a new individual, Andy Nice, who's heading up
the new NBIT programme, and the recent Board discussions
that we have had has opened a totally different
conversation, and the conversation is as follows: are we
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Q. Thank you. That can come down.
The New Branch IT project was commissioned prior to
you joining the Post Office; is that right?
A. Yes.
Who is responsible for that project?
A. So when initially joined the business, Jeff Smyth, was
responsible and, at some point, I think Zdravko Mladenov
and then more recently Chris Brocklesby.
Q. Atparagraph 183 of your witness statement you say when
you first joined, the anticipated budget was
£280 million and that that is now in excess of
£1 billion; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. What do you understand to be that main reason behind
that significant increase in cost?
A. There's a variety of different factors, firstly
I remember when 280 million was discussed at the Board
2
meeting late '21 and Mr Jacobs specifically questioned
Zdravko, saying "280 million, does that not sound too
cheap?" And her response was "Well, that's the costings
that we've got to for now".
But, as the project has evolved, there's been more
to deal with. As the Inquiry's evolved also there's
been more, for example, training and, on the first
Horizon -- the current system that we're using, should
58
actually going to be ready for NBIT in the next two to
three years? It doesn't look like it. Hence, the
Fujitsu extension that we're looking for, which
I challenged in June '24, instead of going for
a five-year extension, to give the shareholder and
postmasters some reassurance that we want to get on with
this new IT system, go with a two years, plus one, plus
‘one, plus one, so we have a break.
Now, further investigating that's happened and part
of the strategic review that's been taking place, it's
clear that we are not ready; we will not be ready for
NBIT within the next maybe two/three years, hence why
buying this equipment was probably the wrong decision
when we did that, and this has been spoken about at
Board over the last few months and, again, I've not seen
any accountability taken for that decision yet.
Q. Who do you hold responsible for that decision?
A. The IT -- the individuals working within IT, and
obviously the wider Executive because everyone is aware
of what's been going on and what the business is trying
to do, in terms of implementing a new IT system.
Q. Is there a particular individual within the IT Team that
you consider should take accountability and
responsibility for that?
A. I feel it's a wider Executive issue because the decision
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wasn't solely based on one issue. Everyone within the
wider Executive would have discussed that.
Without going into legal advice, do you feel the Board
have taken into account matters that were raised by the
Inquiry in Phase 2 of the Inquiry, concerning the
original Horizon procurement and the difficulties that
were experienced?
I'm not sure they've -- the Board certainly has not been
told about these specifics in terms of Phase 2. Maybe
the wider Executive are probably more aware, I'm not
privy to that, so I couldn't tell you.
You also raise that there are still a large number of
bugs in the new system. Can you briefly summarise that
for us?
Yes, so recently, since the Fujitsu conversation started
in June '24 at Board, we had to assess the commercials
in terms of a new renewal with Fujitsu and what's the
longevity, how many years tenure, et cetera. So, in
order to do that, there was an assessment made by the
new Chair on the current state of the NBIT programme
and, basically, we were so far behind, and the Board had
not been informed anywhere near to the level that it
should have with regards to making decisions.
Are you aware of those issues with the bugs being
resolved?
61
clerk -- the counter clerk is actually doing, and the
experience is already so complex.
So, for me, I felt it's a necessity and, again, so
did Mr Jacobs. And we were continually told "There's no
money for it", whereas -- again, we said "It's
a necessity", and maybe two or three occasions we were
told "No, sorry, we can't do this".
The second issue you raise to do with dual terminal
log-ins. Very briefly, can you explain that issue?
Yes, so currently on Horizon, so a postmaster from
Burnley who raised this with me, he's just one of
a number on the existing Horizon, how it's very
difficult, if you're a -- if you're serving, you can't
afford to have an extra member of staff. So, if you've
got account customers you want to do them on the one
terminal, because you're the manager of the branch, and
then next to you you've asked another terminal, so you
can keep serving your customers.
So the customer experience is still okay and you can
still run your business and, unfortunately, on the
current system, the Post Office, with their rule by
exception, doesn't allow postmasters to do that.
Although they did, for a very short period of time. So
this is again another one of my concerns that I've
raised for the new NBIT system. This should allow
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Not yet, no.
Do you feel that there is a sufficient grasp of the
issue?
The Board is aware that there are bugs, and I feel the
Board is waiting for the decisions from the strategic
review in order to then produce a plan in terms of what
needs to be addressed in a certain order.
You've raised in your witness statement a number of
issues with the usability of the new system. That's
paragraph 185 of your witness statement -- I won't bring
it up on to screen unless you need to see it -- but
first you raise the issue of customer-facing screens.
Very briefly, what is that issue?
So currently, if a customer visits a Post Office, the
experience that a customer has is dependent on the staff
member serving them, so depending on the skill level,
capability, ability of the staff member. And it's
clear, so the better-trained, the better-informed staff
member gives the customer a better experience.
However, having a customer facing screen helps the
postmaster enormously because, firstly, it helps reduce
on a training level; secondly, from a governance and
compliancy level, we hit high marks; and, thirdly, the
overall journey, in terms of the customer choice, is
better because the customer can actually see what the
62
postmasters to operate effectively.
A third issue you raise is an issue with the retail
sales facility.
Yes. So there's a lack of integration, currently, and
many postmasters need Horizon to provide a form of
taking retail sales and, again, the business seems very
reluctant to do that, and the business is very happy and
very comfortable saying, "Oh, we've got costs to pay for
card machines, if card payments are taken on our
terminals.”
However, when postmasters have costs and postmasters
wifi is being used, the Post Office unfortunately
doesn't consider that, which is disappointing, hence me
raising that point.
The fourth issue, a particular issue regarding stamps
stock balancing. Is that to do with the issue we spoke
about yesterday or is that a different issue?
No, this helps alleviate issues like that. So, again,
as I have said on numerous occasions, myself and
Mr Jacobs have been ignored on so many different issues.
and this is another classic. Regarding the design of
NBIT, for us, as postmasters, for the wider network, we
want to produce something that's 2030 ready. We want to
reduce the risk for postmasters but also the risk for
Post Office and, as part of good governance, we felt
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that the Post Office should start to consider, like they
do with the self-serving kiosks, printing postage
stamps. That reduces, overnight, the liability --
an approximately £200 million liability that we have in
physical stamps stock.
In simple terms, a customer would come to the
counter, they post a letter, parcel, whatever they want,
and the Post Office clerk on the other side would print
a stamp, whether that's a first, second, it's
irrelevant. They would just print a stamp, either stick
it on for a customer; if it's a letter for tomorrow,
give the sticker to the customer, they can stick it on.
We currently do that and, unfortunately, there's been no
appetite to do that.
And it was late last year when the conversation
started with Chris Brocklesby, again, saying, "Why have
we not been informed? You're making decisions about
auto stock rem based on trying to correct stamp issues,
which is fine, to make postmaster's life easier, but why
are we not thinking about this when we're redesigning
anew system?" It reduces the time a postmaster has to
balance every week. So overall, controls, risk,
everything comes back in line.
If I could take you to some board minutes, it's
POL00448789. This a meeting of 9 March 2023. If we
65
now. [You] queried whether funding for customer-facing
screens could be applied as part of the next funding
submission."
Looking at that and looking at your experiences, do
you feel that you have been listened to at Board level
in respect of the NBIT system?
Clearly not. There's been a certain tunnel vision
approach to just get off Horizon, especially with
everything that's been going on, and that's led,
unfortunately, to the business trying to do this very
quickly, which is not necessarily the right way.
Just to give a bit more context to these minutes,
myself and Mr Jacobs met with one of the individuals
working on the Horizon Programme, and what they showed
us was two very simple transactions, and this was very
early on. The transactions we were shown were how to do.
a return and how to post an item, and we were shown what
to expect from a back office perspective. It wasn't
working yet and, for us, as proactive postmasters,
myself and Mr Jacobs, this was revolutionary because it
would help us -- it would transform the way we run our
businesses and how we serve our customers. So, for us,
it was definitely the right approach that we were using.
However, it was a very, very simple model.
And I'm not sure people appreciate how clunky and
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could turn, please, to page 5. It appears from these
minutes that you did have some influence on the Board or
an opportunity to feed back to the Board. If we scroll
down, we see there it says:
"The Chair noted that SI had had sessions in
relation to NBIT and queried what his response had been.
Sl replied that he and EJ [that's Mr Jacobs] had had
a short demonstration of the development version ... of
NBIT and although not all functionality was operational,
good progress was being made and their experience was
positive. [He then] spoke to the simplification of the
system and the ease of training."
If we scroll down, we can see there's reference
there to you advising that you are still heavily in
favour of customer-facing screens, so that's the issue
we just spoke about.
Yeah.
"... as part of NBIT and queried whether there was a way
to be more targeted with customer-facing screens."
The response was that:
"... postmasters self-funding customer-facing
screens was another option. AC [AC was Mr Cameron]
noted that one of the advantages of NBIT was that it was
much quicker and cheaper to make changes in the future;
we did not wish to invite delay and change the scope
66
how big Horizon currently is, and how even a simple
screen is such a big upgrade. So for us to see new
technology was massive, and one of the big plus points
for us was the printers, which, compared to what we've
got now, the thermal printers, saving so much time, so
much money for the shareholder.
Thank you. I'd like to move on now to a number of
reports to the Board, recent reports to the Board, and
I'm going to start with something that is called the
Teneo report. Can we please turn to POL00448624. This
a Board pack for a meeting on 4 June this year. Was
that a meeting that you attended?
Yes.
Can we please turn to page 109. There was a strategic
review that was carried out, and this is an update for
the Board by a company called Teneo; are you aware of
the background to this report?
Yes. The -- one of the conditions that Mr Railton
insisted on, upon his interim appointment, was to ensure
a strategic review is done, and that should be done
specifically by Teneo.
If we scroll over, we can see the background. It says
there:
"Post Office Limited has invited Teneo to carry out
a comprehensive Strategic Review of the business and
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develop a clear plan for the future.
"The Post Office faces a range of challenges,
including", and it sets out various challenges.
The final one of those is:
"Need for technological overhaul of core systems,
with substantial delays and overspends on Horizon
replacement.”
That's in line with, I think, what we've just been
talking about?
Yes, correct.
Was this well received, this report?
Yes, it's the beginning of a new journey, is the way the
Board was looking at this, and the business, to be fair.
So yeah, the starting point now, how we execute is the
challenge.
If we scroll over the page, it has a set of key
questions. One of them is "Fit-for-Purpose Technology",
and the questions it asks is:
"How will technology support the future operations
of the Post Office?
"How do we ensure new systems (eg Horizon
replacement) are fit for purpose and futureproof?
"How should we partner with suppliers to achieve
this?
“How can technology be leveraged to remove
69
Then there is a reference.
A little further down, just at the end of that
bullet point, it says:
"[Mr Railton] and SJ agreed that IA needed to
undertake a review of procurement governance."
Can you assist us with what the issues are relating
to procurement governance, however brief?
Procurement currently is a bit of a mess within the Post
Office, so I've heard the Head of Procurement, as I've
mentioned in my statement, say in May '24, the Board is
risk averse and, at the following Board meeting
I mentioned this, advising that someone needs to have
a conversation with Procurement. The Board is not risk
averse: if incomplete information is provided, it's very
difficult for the Board to make the right decision.
Then we had a situation earlier this year, June '24,
where procurement basically made a mess of the spend on
the new NBIT system. It went over 50 million so we had
to then get retrospective approval.
Prior to this, towards the end of last year, again
earlier this year, there's been issues regarding
procurement. There was one point raised brilliantly by
Brian Gaunt, one of the NEDs, when he advised, with the
conversations he's had, that Procurement were trying to
agree contracts for 10 years, which is outside the norm,
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inefficiencies and human error?"
In your view, are those matters now being taken
seriously by the business?
It depends on what the findings are once the review has
been conducted, and the implementation. I think it's
a bit premature for me to give you a response for that.
Could we please turn to minutes of a Board meeting from
4 June this year, that's POL00448648. We can see there,
Mr Railton is now Interim Chair by this stage, although
we, if we scroll down, we can see that, given his recent
appointment, it says that Mr Tidswell would act as Chair
at that particular meeting.
It was Mr Railton’s first meeting, hence he asked
Mr Tidswell, "If you don't mind".
Thank you. Can we please turn to page 4, and we're
looking about halfway down page 4. So we've just seen
that IT is going to be a big issue in the future and
something that the company is currently getting to grips
with. We see there:
"SJ was discussing the position on the reporting of
procurement risk exceptions between ARC and the Board
with LC as there seemed to be some inconsistency.
"ACTION The Chair queried whether IA or an external
needed to be engaged to conduct review of procurement
governance."
70
in terms of commercial terms.
The average is five years but they were trying to go
for 10 years, just to avoid doing Procurement again.
Hence, why I say Procurement is a mess, within the Post
Office. And it's a procurement-led kind of approach
which is not helpful, not a commercial, common sense
approach, and this is creating wasted funds for the
taxpayer on numerous occasions, unfortunately.
Where do you say responsibility for that lies?
That's, again, Procurement but also the wider Executive
because they're all in it together. Everyone has to be
working towards the same goal. Issues like this should
be dealt with way before they get to the Board and,
again, it's in my evidence, the Belfast exit programme.
What a disaster that was. The business wasted just
under £35 million to -- again, part of the NBIT
journey -- to move on to a cloud-based system, being
told constantly, "We've got to do this, we've got to do
, and then being told "Oh, Amazon said we can't do
this".
The only thing we got from the 34.8 million that we
spent, which was abandoned in January '23, was a new
air-conditioning system for our Belfast data centre. So
it was extremely disappointing and, again, showing
a lack of accountability on that side, on procurement,
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to deal with issues going forward to ensure we don't
make the same mistakes again.
Thank you. Two further reports have been obtained in
the last summer, two reports from Grant Thornton. The
first is called a Board Effectiveness Report and the
‘other is a Governance Review. Can you briefly tell us
the background to obtaining those two reports?
So Mr Staunton, before leaving, commissioned these
reports and, from my understanding, because of what the
business had been through due to Bonus Gate and other
issues that were arising, he wanted to have an external
organisation involved and produce a framework to ensure
governance and compliance is implemented in the right
way, obviously looking at the issues we've got. So that
process started in October '23.
Then, obviously, Mr Staunton left towards the end of
January '24, and early February -- around February,
sorry, should I say, the first draft of the Grant
Thornton report was produced. And, again, you've got
the emails when myself and Mr Jacobs challenged back
because the first draft was highly critical. And
I remember conversations being had where certain NEDs
said it was unhelpful, and the response myself and
Mr Jacobs sent was, "So that's a good starting point.
Let's just get on with what they have advised us to do".
73
Corporate Governance Code", et cetera.
Then it says:
"The Report has been collated from common themes
identified during our point-in-time assessment of the
Board and its Committees, through key findings and
survey output taken from our Governance Review ...
meeting observations, interviews with Board members and
additional document review with fieldwork concluded mid
May 2024."
If we look at page 43, it has, I think, your name.
You were somebody who was interviewed as part of this
project --
That's correct.
~ is that right? Thank you. Can we turn back, then,
please to page 8. It sets out there the key findings.
First:
"Lack of clarity on the purpose of the Board, with
the shareholder relationship inhibiting the Board's
effectiveness due to perceived interference in [the Post
Office's] work and limited visibility around the
longer-term funding and objectives of the organisation.”
Is that a finding that you agree with?
Yes, it's very difficult, being the Post Office and
having your shareholder, the Government, and funding
being given in limited amounts. So asking for X million
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However, the report was then, certain parts, redone.
But the --
Very critical of who: individuals, the company?
The way it was written was probably -- the way it was
written, it was more critical than how it is now.
At whose request were the changes made?
I'm not sure who specifically instructed Grant Thornton
to rewrite certain parts. I'm not privy to that,
unfortunately.
Was anybody, in particular, calling for changes to be
made?
I remember the UKGI rep saying that. I also remember
the interim Chair, Ben Tidswell, also saying it was
unhelpful.
Unhelpful for who: a public audience or an internal
audience or simply that it was not well drafted?
The words used were "unhelpful". In terms of what
context, you'd have to ask them.
Thank you. Can we look at the first of those, that's
POL00446476. This is the Board Effectiveness Review,
dated 19 June 2024. If we turn over the page we can see
the background. It says:
"The purpose of this review is to provide
an independent analysis of the [Post Office] Board's
effectiveness against the requirements of the UK
74
and then small amounts being given, it's very difficult
to have a plan in place.
Number 2:
“Low levels of trust and team identity ..."
Three-quarters of the way down number 2 it says:
"Equally, there are some views expressed of
a two-tier Board in operation, where decisions are taken
outside of the formal Board structure without proper
debate, and not all [Non-Executive Directors] have the
same visibility on Committee papers and minutes ..."
Is that something you agree with?
That's correct, yes.
Those are matters you have already addressed --
Yes.
-- in your evidence.
Number 3, "No unifying purpose and strategy"; do you
agree with that?
Yes.
Number 4, "Lack of succession planning"; what's your
view on that?
Yes. We've -- we had discussions regarding succession
planning and -- in private NED-only sessions, and it was
clear the lack of talent that existed within the Post
Office to take over if senior individuals had left the
business. And an example was when Martin Kearsley was.
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about to leave the business, we were looking for
somebody, and at the time the CEO advised the NEDs that
the second in command, Ross Borkett was too junior.
And this was -- Martin left probably last year,
I can't remember the exact dates. Now, regarding Ross,
there was a discussion had earlier this year who was
going to succeed Martin. He was stepping in interim,
and the discussion that took place was, obviously, the
CEO advised that he was too junior and wouldn't possibly
be taken seriously.
So we were thought -- certainly myself and Mr Jacobs
were under the impression that we were looking for
someone more senior to do the banking aspect because
it's massive; it's 50 per cent of the Post Office's
business now. And we find out a few months later that
Mr Borkett has been appointed as Head of Banking so we
were shocked.
Now, that again, highlights the lack of succession
planning.
If we move to number 5:
"Team process and meeting discipline. Rolling
agendas, chairing of meetings and presentations of
information from the Exec of the Board all require
focus."
Is that something you agree with?
77
if you're going to be the chair of RemCo, you should be
well versed on at least the last 12 to 18 months of
what's been happening in that Committee, and I was
really disappointed when I raised the questions about
salary increases and she wasn't aware.
So, again, reinforcing the point of a lack of
corporate memory within the organisation, unfortunately.
If we could turn to page 19 please, and that's
Priority D, which addresses issues of culture. They say
there, on the left-hand side, the first two bullet
points:
"Trust is lacking between Board members, exacerbated
by the perception that there appears to be a two-tier
Board with some [Non-Executive Directors/[Independent
Non-Executive Directors] excluded from certain
decision-making, which is carried out informally by
a subgroup of the Board.”
Is that very much in line with the evidence you've
been giving?
Yes.
"The Postmaster [Non-Executive Directors] can,
understandably, become very exercised at issues
affecting the postmaster community, and can on occasion
be seen as ‘activists’ rather than contributing fully as
‘part of the team’."
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That's correct.
Number 6, "The people agenda from culture through to
reward needs ownership at Board"; is that along the
lines of the evidence that you've been giving yesterday
and today?
Yes.
Can we please turn to page 16. This is priority C,
"Leadership capacity, composition and succession”.
I just wanted to ask you about the penultimate bullet on
the left-hand side. It says:
"That [the Post Office] did not anticipate an issue
with corporate memory until recently in terms of
managing multiple simultaneous [Non-Executive Director]
rotations points to poor succession planning processes.
As such the Board should keep a line of [sight] over the
output and debate with the NomCo in terms of its [terms
of reference]."
Again, is that the same kind of issue about
succession planning, this time relating to Non-Executive
Director rotations?
Yes, and this was a point that myself and Mr Jacobs
raised, and it's also a point I raised with Amanda
Burton before -- sorry, it was a point that was raised
with Amanda Burton, not by myself but by the -- by Henry
Staunton and Jane Davies, again, on corporate memory and
78
What's your response to that?
I can see why the report says that because we saw on the
correspondence yesterday that individuals on the Board
thought we were shop stewards and union reps.
However, for me, if we hadn't been blocked in
November '21 continually, regarding communication to the
wider Postmaster Network, and within the business --
people still don't know we were there and still are
there, within the Post Office employee circle -- I think
that would have helped reduce some of the frustrations
massively.
Can we turn to the second report, that's POL00446477.
This is the governance review. If we turn over the page
we can see the background to that. It says there:
"In accordance with the Statement of Work dated
12 October 2023, we present our report ... on the
effectiveness of the governance practices at Post Office
So the work was commissioned on 12 October 2023.
It's taken quite a considerable time to produce, and are
some of the reasons for that, as you've said, because
some of the report was originally provided in draft and
was subject to revision?
Yes, but also the individual, ie Mr Staunton, who
commissioned the report, was exited from the business.
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So there was no continuity as such, following through.
Thank you. If we turn to page 7 we can briefly go
through the key findings. I'll again do what I did with
the previous report and we'll just take you to those
headline points.
"Key findings
“One of the most pressing areas to address to
improve the impact of governance design is
a purpose/cohesive strategy at the Group level, which
sets direction and ambition.
[First] The lack of a unifying purpose and
group-wide strategy between [the Post Office] and the
Shareholder."
Is that something that you agree with?
Second, "Conflict around the role of the shareholder
versus the Board"; again, are you able to give your
views on that particular point?
lagree.
“Leadership capacity’, it says that:
"_. POL is currently affected by ongoing and
upcoming Board rotations, which ... impact leadership
Do you agree with that?
Yes, sir.
Fourth, "Decision making forums at Enterprise level pack
81
say:
"Hope all is well, both myself and Elliot need some
comms out [as soon as possible] as many [postmasters]
think we are doing nothing.
Can we have a chat next week ..."
He says:
"Of course, happy to discuss ...
“lcan speak on a call after the Board meeting ...
“Let me know what suits ..."
Can you explain the concern that you had at this
point in time?
For myself and Mr Jacobs, it felt like a tokenist
gesture in terms of putting us on the Board and
basically stifling us in terms of communication. We
wanted to talk to postmasters, we wanted to bring this
business closer together. We were all going through
a really tough time but, unfortunately, we were just not
given the opportunity; we were not trusted to speak to
the postmaster community, unfortunately.
Can we turn to POL00448389. Moving on in time, this is
now to April this year. If we look at the bottom of
this page onto the next page, you are emailing the
Non-Executive Directors, and you say:
"I would like to bring to your attention an issue
regarding the postmaster events. We have recently
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lace and do not enable accountability"; what's your view
‘on that?
As I said yesterday, unfortunately, in this business,
the lack of decision making and the pace at which things
go through, it's very, very difficult to do something
quickly. It's like moving ten oil tankers all chained
together at the same time. It's really hard.
Number 5, "Culture -- a lack of trust, accountability
and performance management’; is that something you agree
with?
Yes.
Looking at those two reports, is there anything there
that stands out in particular for you as a concern with
regards to the Post Office?
I think it's disappointing that investigations are not
part of the key findings and, in hindsight, after we've
what we've seen today and what was in my bundle, I would
have expected there to be a specific section on
investigations, being such a sensitive issue.
Thank you. That can come down.
The very final topic that I'd like to ask you about
is your involvement with subpostmasters. Could we
please have a look at POL00448370. This is an email
exchange from quite early on in your time as
a Non-Executive Director. You email Mr Taylor and you
82
received invites with very short notice, which is
a disappointment on the part of our retail team. Once
again, the team has failed to keep the Board up to date
and also [needs] me and Elliot informed about these
Postmaster Listening events to ensure [Postmaster
Non-Executive Directors] are present."
Can you assist us with your concern there?
This is in relation to what we discussed prior to the
break: the events that were organised during the month
of Ramadan.
Yes.
So this all part of that conversation.
Do you feel that you are being sufficiently kept in
touch with events relating to postmasters?
No.
If we could turn on to POL00448391, moving on to the
next month, 1 May 2024. Let's start on the bottom of
the second page, please. It's an email from Tracy
Marshall to you and Mr Jacobs. She says:
"I'm writing to ask for your help please with the
‘ongoing [Non-Executive Director] recruitment campaign.
You may have seen in Martin Roberts' email yesterday
that we've taken the decision to extend the application
window ... This is as a result of ... feedback from
postmasters.
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"The other piece of feedback received is that
postmasters want to understand a bit more about the role
itself from your perspective ...”
So they want you to address them in respect of the
recruitment drive.
If we go, please, over to the first page, there's
a response from you. At the top of the page, please,
top of page 1, you say:
"Over the past three years, we have been
significantly hindered from engaging with Postmasters at
the desired level due to a lack of response from the
Retail Engagement and Comms teams, despite repeat at the
time requests. Additionally, we are firmly opposed to
the way in which the replacement process is being
handled which we have both been vocal about.
Specifically with regards to the lack of continuity,
corporate memory, and effective postmaster oversight
that will be lost in the handover process.”
There seem to be two issues there, one is a general
concern about the engagement you're allowed to have with
postmasters and the other is actually about the
replacement process itself. Can we take each of those
in terms? If we start with the first, what is the
concern that's expressed there about being able to
engage with postmasters?
85
postmaster events, continually, myself and Mr Jacobs
were not invited, and I'm not sure why.
Regarding the second part of your question, we had
an initial conversation with Tracy Marshall, Martin
Roberts, Shaun Kerrison -- I'm not sure if Shaun
Kerrison was in the room but Tracy was definitely there
and Martin Roberts were there, and the discussion was
how to have -- what should the criteria be to bring
anew -- bring the new Postmaster NEDs?
And myself and Mr Jacobs put together -- we
recommended a certain criteria on the call to them and
that was totally ignored, and then the advert went out
with something totally different.
So for myself and Mr Jacobs, it was very
disappointing. We will leave the Board, when our time
is due, no problems with that whatsoever. However, all
the corporate memory information that we've built, we
want to give it to individuals, firstly, who are
capable; secondly, who can hold the business to account
with the right level of scrutiny. That's all we wanted.
But, again, we were totally ignored in what we
suggested.
MR BLAKE: Thank you, Mr Ismail. Those are all of my
questions.
Sir, we have some questions from our own Mr Jacobs.
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A. Sorry can you just repeat your question?
Q. Yes, sorry. It's a little noisy. We'll just wait for
the noise to die down for a second. Thank you.
So the first issue there -- oh, no, the noise is
back again. We'll just wait a moment.
Sorry, sir, there's some building work above us and
it's slightly disruptive.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I It's a continuation of what was happening
yesterday, I take it.
MR BLAKE: Possibly worse.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right.
MR BLAKE: Let's see if we can plough through it.
There is a first concern that you are being hindered
from engaging with postmasters. Briefly, can you assist
us with how you are being hindered with engaging with
subpostmasters?
A. So, as I've mentioned previously in November '21, when
Richard Taylor advised both myself and Mr Jacobs not to
have any communication on social media with any
postmasters, number 1; number 2, when I was out visiting
postmasters on my own time, my own initiative, again,
I was told that Regional Managers and individuals higher
up were uncomfortable with me going out on my own and,
for me, that was getting a flavour to ensure that
I bring back to the Board to do a better job; regarding
86
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right.
MR BLAKE: I'll hand over to him.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Fine.
Questioned by MR JACOBS
MR JACOBS: = Thank you, Mr Ismail. I represent a large
number of subpostmasters -- is that better. Thank you.
I represent a large number of subpostmasters and
I have a number of questions for you.
As part of the Post Office Board, have you been
informed of the Government's plans for the future of the
Post Office?
Not yet. No. Sorry, can you hear me?
Yes, I can, yes. Can you hear me?
I'm trying to. I'm --
If I need to speak up, let me know. I know there's some
noise in the background. You say "not yet". Are you
expecting to hear?
A. My assumption is once the strategic review has taken
place, there will be some serious discussions about the
future of the Post Office. I did have a conversation
prop
with Johnny Reynolds a few weeks ago, at the opening of
Banking Hub in his constituency, and the conversation
was very positive, and one of the first points Johnny
Reynolds made was to resolve redress for postmasters and
to ensure current postmasters are treated fairly and
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postmaster remuneration is reflective of the efforts
that are being put in.
Normally, we would expect the owner of a very large
institution such as this to have a three or a five or
a ten-year plan with the direction of travel for the
future of the Post Office; is that the sort of thing
that you're expecting to happen?
lam, once the strategic review has been concluded, sir.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Now, I'm going to ask you about Board awareness of
survey results. Gavin Ellison gave evidence yesterday;
do you recall that?
Yes.
You might have been outside the room when he did so.
Have you read the YouGov report that has been provided
for the Inquiry?
I have been sighted.
So you'll know, won't you, that approximately 1,000
current subpostmasters responded?
Yes.
70 per cent say they suffer from screen freezes;
68 per cent loss of connection; 57 per cent say they've
experienced unexplained discrepancies; and 65 per cent
of subpostmasters surveyed experienced these types of
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level is, "There's a number of bugs, we have fixed X
amount of bugs". That's the only detail.
This theme in your evidence about the Board not being
told what's going on by the Executive, it feeds into
previous employee survey results, doesn't it?
Yes, sir.
You say at paragraph 125 of your statement, in relation
to 2023 employee survey results, that the poor results
were not accurately reported to the Board?
That's correct, sir.
Do you think, then, that the Executive are deliberately
downplaying the scale of problems relating to
subpostmaster dissatisfaction?
I don't think it's just subpostmaster dissatisfaction.
The Executive, wider Executive, is cherrypicking what
issues they want to bring to Board, which is not
helpful.
What do you think can be done or ought to be done about
this cherrypicking tendency?
There has to be more oversight within this business, and
the best placed individuals to provide the right level
of scrutiny are existing and previous postmasters
because they understand the business.
That brings me on to the next topic I wanted to address
with you. Could we then go to POL00448394, please.
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issues at least once a month. You're aware of that?
Yes, I can relate to that, yes.
I know that you've said that you have experienced
similar things in your own branches, haven't you?
That's correct, sir.
Do you know if the Post Office Board or senior
Executives, before this survey came out, were aware of
the huge dissatisfaction amongst subpostmasters with how
the Horizon system is working and how they're still
being treated by the Post Office?
So what -- firstly, a simple answer to your question is:
I'm not sure they are aware. The Board certainly is
not, to the level at which YouGov broke things down and
specific points, and a survey is as useful as the
questions you ask.
Yes.
So what's telling is the questions that are being asked
in the postmaster surveys and the Post Office employee
surveys, and if there's consistency applied, then
there's specific data to cross-reference against, and to
produce a plan to implement. And I feel, once the
current Board has sight of the YouGov results, they will
put them forward and hopefully produce a plan. In terms
of current and existing bugs, we were never provided
with any specific detail. All we were told at Board
90
This is, while we're waiting for it to come up, an email
from Elliot Jacobs to you, dated 28 May 2024, and Nigel
Railton is also copied in, and it's entitled "Discussion
Document"; are you familiar with this?
Yes, this was a discussion document that I did and, for
me, it was my views to set the new Chair up for success.
It's helpful because it follows on from what you've just
been saying because you say that this captures your
thinking and aims for the future, particularly after
some of the evidence from the former -- the Chief
Executive that was given in the Inquiry. Just looking
at the second paragraph, you say that there should be
a Committee called the "PM Advisory Committee", and this
committee should have a clear mandate and terms of
reference, bring together voices from across the
postmaster community, meet four to six times a year and
aim to educate and guide senior POL members on the
impact of proposals and strategies. What members do you
have in mind?
Proactive postmasters. So obviously groups who
represent postmasters. This organisation it's such
a fascinating and fantastic institution. It has a wide
range of stakeholders, but I don't feel having every
single stakeholder on the Postmaster Advisory or
Postmaster Council, whatever we want to call it, is
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helpful because, as I've said previously, making
decisions and -- is very difficult.
The lack of pace within the organisation is clearly
evident and we don't want to do any more to jeopardise
any further lack of pace and decision making. So
producing a specific committee with individuals, where
accountability can be made for specific projects,
I think its really, really important and the way
forward.
Okay, thank you. Which senior Post Office officials
‘ought to be informed or educated by this committee?
So, for me -- maybe I should have been a little bit
clearer. I feel it's important for the senior
individuals to be on the committee as well --
I see.
-- to connect better. There's no point having
a committee without these individuals because whatever
is discussed then can't be implemented. So for example,
the Chief Finance Officer, the CEO, the Chief Retail
Officer, these individuals would be on this type of
committee and, currently, with the scenario that we're
in, the Transformation Officer as well, would be
important.
Your proposal is, reading through the document:
“It should have the authority to call upon senior
93
Because I, for one, don't have the confidence,
especially after what I've been sighted on, within the
internal Post Office Investigations and Legal Team, for
a fair hearing. Number 1.
Number 2, the advantage this oversight brings is
there's certain situations that can happen in a Post
Office branch. For example, a customer comes to
deposit -- comes to the counter to deposit £1,000,
and -- sorry, to withdraw £1,000, and, in error, you
press the deposit button. So I've given the customer
1,000, and I've deposited 1,000. This is a very easy
mistake to make. The buttons look very similar and
they're next to each other.
Now, for a postmaster or a postmaster council
advisory committee, if a postmaster explains that issue
and they're an active, live-serving postmaster, they can
understand that. However, an external body may not
necessarily grasp that as quickly in terms of how simple
and easy an error it is to make.
Okay. So you think investigations should be conducted
externally?
100 per cent.
There are three points that you raise at the
conclusion -- I think it's Mr Jacobs who raises it --
but you say that this is something that you put
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POL members to explain and challenge what is working and
what is not."
Are you talking about senior Executive members who
would be invited to come and be challenged?
Correct: held to account.
Held to account. You also say:
"It should also provide [some] overwatch on
[postmaster] investigations."
Just on that point, you've told us yesterday that
investigations had been rebranded "branch assurance
visits" -- is that right -
Yes.
-- and that there are difficulties with the postmasters
that are ongoing in relation to understanding data,
individuals until recently weren't allowed
representation --
Yes.
-- and you talk about the business being the victim and
investigator, so it's not neutral, and the problems with
tonality. Do you think that this sort of oversight by
an advisory committee would resolve these issues?
I think there's different strands to that. Firstly,
it's got to be an external body that does
investigations.
Right.
94
together?
The discussion document I put together.
Okay.
This was an email following on from my discussion
document --
One of the points that's made is the lack of automation
is "shocking", is what's said. Can you explain that
problem and why is it shocking?
So we joined the board in June '21 and, within a few
months, we made it very clear to the business that we
need automation, our costs are going through the roof,
‘our customer journeys are poor, they can be better, they
should be better. The self-serving kiosks that we
currently have are not good enough, they are not doing
what they should. In terms of the new QR codes, some of
them don't work. They were only processing old returns.
And, unfortunately, this was just ignored and -- until
October '23, when a paper was brought to the Board by
Martin Roberts regarding automation, and to be clear,
this was done on the back of some of our strategic
partners saying, "We may leave the relationship with the
Post Office unless this issue is resolved."
So the wider Executive ignored the two postmaster
NEDs who have been requesting this, and information
about this, and some kind of innovation to help ease
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customer journey. However, when it came to strategic
partners, they were keen to start the conversation.
Right. Okay. You talk about a point of candour.
Yes.
To what extent does the Board lack candour; is that the
point?
I think it -- that's more from my observations based on
the testimony of Paula Vennells and what she was
mentioning. And again, for me, as an NED, being
proactive in trying to make this organisation better,
hence why I mention that point.
Okay. I just want just a quick query. You mentioned
strategic partners. Can you just confirm what that
means?
So strategic partners are organisations such as WHSmith,
Morrisons, Co-Operative, ASDA, organisations who have
large -- a large number of branches with us and, again,
it's in my evidence where a survey was conducted of
strategic partners and also of postmasters, which was
brought to the July '24 Board meeting. And again, the
like-for-like comparison was not helpful.
There were approximately just under 200 strategic
partners interviewed, whereas over 1,000 postmasters
interviewed, and the image and the narrative being
portrayed by the retail team was "Here, look here, the
97
Yes.
Yes, so again, I'm not saying someone should be
a permanent fixture, not at all. However, in order --
it's clear, what -- the Inquiry has produced some clear
issues that this organisation has, and one of them is
imbalance of power, another is materiality in relation
to postmasters. But the other, with regards to the Post
Office, is corporate memory. And in order to move
forward, move on, and as my mum would say to me, "be
a better person today than you were yesterday’, in order
to do that for this organisation, we have to learn from
the lack of corporate memory that we have.
And for me, not having individuals in place who are
aware of what's happened in the past, even in the short
term, over the last few years, not having that kind of
continuity is very disappointing because I can't see how
we can learn from the past if we don't have that.
My final point is: I understand that you presented this
proposal to the Board; is that right?
I provided this discussion document to the Chair --
Yes.
-- and then it was in the Chair's hands, and I'm not
sure whether the Chair has presented it or not but, for
me, it was my duty to set the Chair up for success.
Hence --
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strategic partners are very happy but these postmasters
are not".
And then it was only once there was some scrutiny by
the Board, which is when clarity was provided, in terms
of numbers and, again, just to add a point on to
semi-related to automation, up until Andrew Darfoor
mentioned about a digital strategy last year, the Post
Office did not have a clear digital strategy, which was
disappointing.
Q. That's helpful. Finally, you say:
"_. the lack of Corporate Memory is a major
problem -- sighted by [the former Chief Executive]
Vennells too and still a lesson unlearned
It goes on to say:
"... we risk losing the learnings and experience int
he desire to replace positive challenge. No NEDs other
than Saf and Elliot in situ, with many not looking to do
a second term."
Are you saying that there should be an element of
continuity so that this committee isn't just for a fixed
term and and then they all change?
A. Sorry, can you repeat the question?
Q. Are you saying that the committee needs to have people
on it that are longstanding members, so --
A. The advisory committee?
98
Q. Sos it your evidence that this hasn't been responded
to yet?
A. We've had a discussion, I have had a discussion, and so
did Mr Jacobs, regarding this document, and the response
that I received from Mr Railton was the strategic review
will be addressing these points. So again, it's
premature for me to say whether each point has been
addressed yet.
MR JACOBS: = Thank you. I just need to check if I have any
more questions for you. I haven't. Thank you, that's
all have. Thank you.
MR BLAKE: Thank you, sir.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Is that it, Mr Blake?
MR BLAKE: Yes, unless you have any questions, sir?
Questioned by SIR WYN WILLIAMS
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, actually, just one.
I've understood that there are, in round figures,
11,500 branches. That's a goal, I think, that the
Government set. When the survey was sent out, it was
sent out to approximately 6,500 postmasters or
subpostmasters. Can I take it that the reason for the
difference is that there are some large partners, like
supermarkets, et cetera, who run many branches?
A. Yes, sir, but there was, from what I have seen -- and
again, when the Post Office conducts internal surveys,
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they are promoted to be filled in and responded back to.
Regarding your survey, the NFSP pushed your survey being
filled and so did the Voice of the Postmaster. I didn't
see ~
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: No, I wasn't asking that.
A. Okay.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: At first sight, it seemed a little --
A. Yes.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: -- unusual that there was 6,500
postmasters but 11,500 branches. I was simply, I think,
understanding that that's because many of the branches
are run by large organisations?
A. Yes, sir, but there are also postmasters with multiple
branches also. So --
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Sure.
A. ~again--
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So that's the reason? Fine.
A. And, from my experience, the number of postmasters is
approximately 7,000, so you weren't that far off.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Right. Thank you.
Well, we'll end on that happy note, Mr Ismail.
Thank you very much for making a very detailed witness
statement and for giving evidence both yesterday and
today. I'm grateful to you.
THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir.
101
right?
A. Yes.
Q. That witness statement has the unique reference number
WITN11180100. Can I ask you to turn to the final
substantive page, that's page 29. Can you confirm that
that is your signature?
A. Ican.
Q. Can you confirm that that statement is true to the best
of your knowledge and belief?
A. Itis.
Q. Thank you very much. That witness statement will be
published on the Inquiry's website shortly. Just by way
of background, you've said in your statement that in
1998 you purchased a stationery company called Universal
Office Equipment; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. You established an online business-to-business
stationery division; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. In 2014 you negotiated a franchise agreement with the
Post Office?
A. Yes.
Q. That's grown over time and you now have eight stores,
mainly in North London?
A. North London and Hertfordshire.
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MR BLAKE: Can we come back at 1.50, please, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, I was going to ask you, are we
managing the time for Mr Elliot this afternoon? I mean,
that's still giving us an hour for lunch, isn't it?
MR BLAKE: Absolutely.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, that's fine. Good.
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
(12.50 pm)
(The Short Adjournment)
(1.50 pm)
MR BLAKE: Good afternoon, sir, can you see and hear me?
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I can but only faintly, Mr Blake.
MR BLAKE: This afternoon we're going to hear from
Mr Jacobs.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I It's still not quite right.
MR BLAKE: I think my microphone has been turned on.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Now, it's right.
MR BLAKE: We're going to hear from Mr Jacobs this
afternoon.
ELLIOT MARC JACOBS (sworn)
Questioned by MR BLAKE
MR BLAKE: Can you state your full name, please?
A. Elliot Marc Jacobs.
MR BLAKE: Mr Jacobs you should have in front of you
awitness statement, dated 15 August this year; is that
102
Q. Thank you. When you say eight stores, is that eight
branches of the Post Office?
A. Correct.
Q. You set out in your statement various other positions
you've held but, for today’s purpose, it's relevant that
you are a Non-Executive Director of Post Office and have
held that position since 2021; is that correct?
A. Thatis correct. I also operate a Bank Hub.
Q. Thank you. In terms of the Non-Executive Director
position, you applied, having seen an advert in a Post
Office circular; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. We heard a bit about the process. I won't go over again
the basic process but you in your statement have
addressed an issue upon standing again for the position.
You didn't satisfy criteria this time round. Can you
assist us with what that criteria was?
A. So the important part of it was around corporate memory.
I was conscious that both Mr Ismail and myself had fixed
terms and we had become -- although not expected when we
joined, we were already the oldest standing non-execs on
the Board and for us both to depart simultaneously would
be a lack of corporate memory that this organisation so
desperately needs. And so, having tried to express the
importance of having some sort of, you know, different
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approach to the way we were going to be offboarded
I took the decision that I wanted to stand again in
order to try and keep that corporate memory going, if
I wasn't going to be able to provide a decent level of
transition.
Mr Ismail and myself met with members of the
Postmaster Engagement Team to discuss the approach to
appointing the next round of NEDs for postmasters. They
listened and then decided upon a series of criteria that
don't really provide any relevance to the role but, in
fact, would favour a postmaster with less expansive
business.
So you have eight branches. Is it more likely that
someone with a smaller number of branches would satisfy
the criteria?
Correct.
Do you know why that criteria was introduced?
No.
Do you think it was intended to ensure a different type
‘of subpostmaster to yourself and Mr Ismail joined the
board?
I can't say what they were thinking. I think, from my
view, we provide a robust challenge that perhaps is more
of a robust challenge than they thought they would get
and perhaps the hope was that by having someone with the
105
the Board. I think the comments I've received from
other Non-Execs, from members of the Executive and from
the Chief Executive, Nick Read, was that he, both openly
and in public and privately, has said to me that the
rigour we bring, the challenge we bring, the real-world
experience we bring, is greatly appreciated, and has
made a significant difference to the way the Board
operates but I do wonder whether -- having read some of
the comments in the bundle you've provided, whether
everyone feels that way.
Is there anyone in particular who you feel doesn't feel
that way?
Well, I think the readout from the meeting with Minister
Hollinrake sort of implies quite a bit.
What does it imply to you? We saw it yesterday, so we
don't need to bring it up onto screen.
I was disappointed to read how Mr Ismail and myself were
perceived, certainly not how it happens in real life,
and that we would be perceived in that way, I think, is
disrespectful to the effort that we've made.
Do you think it was caused by any particular incidence?
I think there's a difficult balancing act, as a non-exec
and as a postmaster. I've always sought to find the
balance and Mr Ismail and myself are aligned in many
ways because we are postmasters but we are from
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need to devote more time to their smaller operating
business, that they might not get so much oversight.
In terms of your original appointment and your training
and experience, you've said at paragraph 35 of your
statement that the Board hadn't considered the
infrastructure and training required to support
Postmaster Non-Executive Directors; can you expand on
that, please?
We were the first and, although I've held non-executive
roles before, in significantly less complex businesses
than this one, I think Post Office underestimated the
need to train us properly. The training was intense,
but limited, and didn't really set us up for success,
nor was there ongoing advice and guidance around
managing conflicts, making certain that we had the right
support going forward. I think they were learning on
the job.
Do you feel that the role was something that Post Office
genuinely wanted to have?
Yes.
Do you think that it is still a role that the Post
Office genuinely wants to have?
That's harder to answer. I would say: in part.
What do you mean by that?
Again, I think a lot of good has come out of us being on
106
different viewpoints and we agree on much but we don't
agree on everything.
But I can understand how some people on the Board
may see that, in us fighting and discussing and debating
actively for postmasters, both present and past, that
they may feel that we are bringing a level of postmaster
interaction that they didn't expect.
We've seen in some documents reference to an oversight
committee or the creation of some sort of other body.
Mm.
What are your views on that?
I think the engagement of postmasters and all
stakeholders are fundamental in making the Post Office
right for the future. I don't think the word
"oversight" is necessarily right. You can get caught up
in the descriptive terms, but I do think that bringing
experience and knowledge to the heart of Post Office is
what it's about, but it needs to enable Post Office to
move swiftly and effectively, and with knowledge from
all parts of the business.
You commented on the training you received. Was there,
in your view, sufficient training in respect of the
historic issues that the Inquiry's investigating?
Not at all.
What kind of training do you think should be
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implemented?
I think, for a start, to understand where we're going,
you have to understand our past and, for me, when
I joined the Board, I think it's fair to say that I did
not understand the depth and scope of what had happened
in the past. I, like many postmasters, had been told,
"There's a few people who were found guilty but it's
okay, they were guilty", and what I learned after
joining the Board and being prompted by some of the
community of postmasters that I began to connect with
was that there was an entire story I didn't know.
I took the time to read the Nick Wallis book, which
was both shocking and incredibly informative.
I listened to the podcasts. I had read some of the
documents from the court case and case studies, and
I basically did my own groundwork to find out what we
had done and how it had happened and, frankly, the ITV
drama should be standard practice for everybody to read
and watch, because that really sets it up absolutely
right.
What did you feel of the knowledge of those around you
‘on the Board; did they have a similar state of
knowledge?
So the Board has changed a lot whilst I've been there,
as I say, Mr Ismail and myself were the longest standing
109
Non-Executive Directors sit on the Remediation
Committee; do you know why that is?
I don't know why but that is true.
Could we please turn to POL00448396. This is an email
we've already seen from today from Amanda Burton to
Mr Ismail and yourself, and she says:
"Hi Saf and Elliot, I know you requested more
information about the annual bonus scheme and the
long-term bonus scheme. I had thought you had access to
all the papers but now I have done some digging, I have
covered you don't. I have suggested that Rachael takes
this up with the Nigel as I for one would be happy for
you to see everything on Diligent.”
Can you assist us with what the difficulties were in
obtaining information prior to this email?
So the Post Office Board covers a very wide remit of
work, and within the work on the non-execs we are also
assigned to various other committees that then report up
to the Board, such as the Audit and Risk Committee, the
Remuneration Committee, the Nomination Committee,
there's lots of different committees. Each of these
committees has a remit and a chair, and, if you're not
on that committee, you don't have access to the data,
information or notes that are made to that committee.
You just get the read-out from the Chair at the Board in
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NEDs. So there's been quite a change on the Board.
When I joined, some of the Board members had been there
for quite some time and I'm sure they had some of that
corporate memory. The people who are on the Board now
have all been there just a matter of months or years and
I don't believe they've that the immersion that perhaps
they should.
In terms of committees, you've said at paragraph 55 of
your witness statement that Mr Staunton wanted the
Postmaster Non-Executive Directors on more committees
but there was push back against that. Can you tell us
a little bit more about that including where that
pushback was coming from?
Mr Staunton was very pro-postmaster I would say, he
wanted this to be very postmaster centric, he wanted to
drive forward an agenda of putting the postmaster at the
centre of the Post Office, which we'd talked about for
quite a long time but hadn't quite executed. He was
keen to have us involved in some form of postmaster
council, or whatever terminology you wish to use, and
was keen to see both Saf and I extended, as well as
additional postmasters brought onto the Board.
Where was the pushback against that coming from?
I don't know precisely, but elsewhere.
You've said also in your statement that no Postmaster
110
a sort of two-minute update, for want of a better word.
When this came about and as a result of this
communication, Nigel Railton, who is the current interim
Chair, took the decision -- I think excellently -- that
two things would happen: first, that all committee
documents would be open to all members of the Board, and
any Board member could attend any committee as
an observer at any time. I think that's an excellent
improvement.
We know that in 2021 and 2022 there was an inquiry
metric in respect of the bonus scheme?
Yes.
Were you aware of that, did you have any involvement in
that?
No, I don't sit on RemCo.
Again, you say you're not aware of the reason why you
don't sit on RemCo. Has anything been communicated to
you as to whether it would be a good or bad idea for you
to sit on that committee?
Well, I assume it's potentially because being
postmasters they felt there may be a conflict but you
would have to take that up with someone else. I would
have accepted the offer to be on RemCo, were it offered
tome.
You would have accepted the offer but do you think it
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would be a good thing or a bad thing?
I think it would be a ‘thing’. I think for us to be on
any committee is good thing. I don't think there should
be anywhere in this organisation where a stakeholder
with such an important aspect within the business
shouldn't be involved. Now, how you balance that
against making certain that there is no conflict, is
important but I don't think there's necessarily conflict
when you think about the wages and bonuses that you're
paying staff members who should be delivering the
quality of service to the entire business.
In terms of Board papers themselves, at paragraph 45 of
your witness statement, you've said that:
"The Post Office has a tendency to blend accurate
data with inaccurate data" --
Yeah.
-- "meaning the true picture of a project is often
skewed."
Mm.
Can you give us an example of that?
Some of the documentation that's given to Board is
weighty but light on information. The quality of the
Board papers has been up and down, over the course of my
time on the Board, and I'm quite detail orientated and
conscious of making certain that information I'm given
113
that the [subpostmasters] serving on the Board share in
with them, while only approximately 15% agreed."
Can you assist us with what you see as the reason
for that?
Well, we were told specifically -- we were told
specifically that we were not to communicate directly
with postmasters through social media or when we asked
for the Communications Team to provide briefing notes
that we could share or stuff that they felt was
appropriate for us to put into the public domain,
nothing was given.
Who asked you?
Sorry?
You said you were asked: who by?
That would be the former Head of Communications, Richard
Taylor.
Do you know why you weren't allowed to share that
information?
Well, obviously, we have a balancing act between the
confidentiality of being a Non-Exec Director, which
I absolutely respect. We also have the need to provide
‘our postmasters with confidence that we're there doing
the job we were elected to do, and I think "elected" is
an important part of this. We are the only members of
the Board elected by anyone and we stand there not only
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is full and accurate. And there have been times where
we've been given information on which we are to form
an opinion which latterly is seen to be not the entire
picture.
Where does that come from?
The briefings we're given are insufficient or are
lacking in complete data.
Is that from a particular team, or every team, some
teams?
It's not unique to one team.
Is there a team in particular that you have in mind?
Well, when I think of examples of the situation, I'd be
thinking of some of the data out of the retail team, and
I'd also be thinking about things like Past Roles and
Phoenix.
We'll get on to those in due course.
Communicating with subpostmasters. Could we please
bring up on screen our expert report from YouGov, it's
EXPG0000007. If we turn to page 39, we saw when we went
through this report, if we scroll down slightly, that,
a large number of subpostmasters are aware what there
are Non-Executive Director Subpostmasters: 72 per cent.
But then if we scroll down, we see there it says:
"Despite high awareness of [subpostmasters] being
appointed to the Board ... a majority (57%) disagreed
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as representatives of postmasters but we stand there to
do the job of a non-exec, like all the others. But we
also have this duality of making certain that we inform
and make certain postmasters understand that we are
driving the agenda forward and making certain that
change happens.
You've said that the former Head of Communications was
not in favour of you communicating with
subpostmasters --
Well, I wouldn't say he was -- I wouldn't say -- sorry
to cut across you.
Absolutely.
I wouldn't say he was unfair; he just didn't do
anything.
Has that position changed?
Well, we haven't been provided with any other type of
briefing note since, so I would say probably not.
You've mentioned in your witness statement the Voice of
the Postmaster, also the NFSP, Communication and Workers
Union; are you encouraged to speak with any of those
three organisations?
So, more recently, the recently appointed interim Head
of Communications has engaged all of those parties, and
both Mr Ismail and myself, in discussions face to face,
in the same room, around tone of voice and how to
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communicate with postmasters. So very, very recently in
the last few weeks we have seen a shift but that's since
the new appointment of this interim person.
You've mentioned in particular the Voice of the
Postmaster and you've said that they have more members
than the NFSP?
They do.
What is the future plan for the relationship between the
Voice of the Postmaster and the Post Office, as far as
you're aware?
So the NFSP has a contracted relationship with the Post
Office, which you'll be aware of. The Voice of the
Postmaster is a cooperative group of postmasters who
have come together to create a voice for postmasters.
I believe we should engage with all parties at all times
and get the widest breadth of views that we can from our
community. I don't believe there's a clear strategy for
what that is right now.
Do you have any views as to the effectiveness of the any
of those organisations vis a vis each other?
Well, the Voice of the Postmaster a voluntary
established business where people put in their time for
the love of doing it. I always think that's a great
place to begin. I can't say I've had huge experience
with the NFSP. I know Calum from my work on the Covid
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Can we please turn to WITN11180101 and we'll start at
the penultimate page, page 5, at the bottom of page 5.
This is an email to you from Andrew Morley who is
a Senior Investigations Manager, and he says as follows,
this is 14 March last year:
"lam employed by [the Post Office] as a Senior
Investigations Manager within the Central Investigations
Unit and I have had reason to conduct an investigation
into alleged discrepancies at post offices within the
Universal Office Equipment group. I would now like to
arrange to interview you in connection with the alleged
discrepancies and to this end please can you provide
your availability", and he sets out the dates there.
At this point, so 14 March, on receiving this email,
had you received any other paperwork in relation to this
investigation?
Not to my knowledge.
Were you aware, at this stage, whether it was a criminal
investigation, a civil investigation, a professional
misconduct investigation or some other investigation?
No.
We're going to return to this email chain but perhaps we
can just bring onto screen the Project Birch report,
that's POL00423697.
If we turn page 10 of that report, it's a report we
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recovery group with him but, beyond that, I haven't had
a lot of interaction with them.
Thank you. I'm going to move on to a separate topic
now, and that's an investigation that was carried into
you and your business, and you've detailed that in your
witness statement, but we'll go through a number of
different documents.
You say at paragraph 19 of your statement that you
received a call from the Chair, Henry Staunton, in March
2023. Can you assist us with what was said on that
conversation?
Yes, I don't think it was a call, I think he asked me to
pop into his office after a Board meeting and he said to
me, "Elliot there's a query on your account. I don't
know what it's about. Could you have a chat with Ben
[Ben Foat, the Head of Legal], just see what it is and
sort it out for me", and I was like, "Sure, no problem".
Did you speak to Mr Foat at that point?
Absolutely.
What did Mr Foat say?
He said he would get someone in his team to contact me
and walk me through the query.
Did he give you any detail as to what the concern might
be?
No.
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saw with Mr Ismail earlier today. In the bottom
left-hand side here of this document -- do you recall
this document ever being discussed at the Board, this
report?
I do not recall it, no.
It's a report by KPMG and they say as follows:
"Currently investigations are often undertaken
within [the Post Office] from a contractual perspective
and there is little consideration at the start of
an investigation as to whether it could potentially
result in criminal, civil or disciplinary proceedings.
Early engagement with [Post Office] Legal would enable
proper consideration of criminal or civil standards or
consideration of when to liaise with [law enforcement
agencies]."
So that report was dated 13 August 2021, so a couple
of years before your investigation. Do you think that
by the time it came to your investigation, that lesson
had been learnt?
It wouldn't seem so, on the basis of the emails sent.
If we could return, please, to the emails. That is
WITN11180101. If we could go back to page 5. In the
middle of page 5 you respond to Mr Morley and you say:
"Thank you for your email.
"I assume this is related to the query raised by Ben
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Foat with me.
"As I explained to Ben I would be happy to assist
you in your enquiry", and you give your availability.
If we scroll up, please. Mr Morley responds:
"Thank you for your prompt response and I can
confirm that the interview is in connection with the
matter about which Ben spoke to you about recently. In
line with your available I have arranged an interview
He says:
"The interview will be conducted by myself and John
Bartlett who is the Head of the Post Office
Investigation Branch. Please find attached a letter
from John explaining in some detail the format of the
interview and the areas we wish to cover."
We will return again to this email chain but let's
have a look at that letter. It's WITN11180102. It's
dated 15 March and this is the letter from Mr Bartlett
to you. He says:
"My name is John Bartlett. I am the head of the
Central Investigation Unit within Legal, Compliance and
Governance at the Post Office.”
Were you aware of Mr Bartlett before receiving this
letter?
I don't know.
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the PAST team."
Who are the PAST team?
I don't remember what the acronym stands for, we have
a lot of them in the Post Office, but they're basically
the accounting support team of some sort. I don't
remember.
Had you been told by the PAST team that they were
passing on the matter to the Investigation Team to carry
out an investigation?
No. I hadn't had any communication with them in some
time. It turned out through the investigation that
they'd been writing to an address that isn't my Head
Office and they never phoned me or emailed me. I also
was at the Post Office Headquarters regularly for Board
meetings. I have a personal assistant at the Post
Office headquarters, because of my non-exec role, and
I'd been in meetings with Ben Foat repeatedly. No one
ever came to me and said, "Elliot, there's a query,
could you have a chat with them’.
Second issue is a potential conflict of interest.
Briefly, what's the allegation there?
I later found out it related to the signature of
a declaration to do with any connected activity between
myself and Post Office Limited.
25 Q. Something that potentially Post Office would have been
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It says:
"Andrew has been investigating shortfalls at Post
Office branches within the Universal Office Equipment
group and has invited you to a voluntary investigative
meeting on 5 April 2023 at [the Post Office's] offices
Did you understand this to be a meeting or something
more formal?
Well, I've run my business for 26 years and, over 26
years, you get queries between a supplier and
a customer, which is the relationship that one would
assume I have with Post Office, in many respects, and
when that sort of thing happens, normally I'd know,
an accounts department might contact you, they might
send you some documents to review. You'd go back to
them and query some things and you'd find a resolution.
Maybe you'd have a meeting to discuss it in a, you know,
professional and normal business manner. This did not
feel like that.
"Subjects to be discussed", the first is "Shortfalls",
and he sets out there some shortfalls that he says have
been identified. He says at the bottom there:
"We would like to discuss with you this mounting
shortfall, understand what you think caused them, and
identify any reasons for not continuing to engage with
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aware of when you became a Non-Executive Director?
As a Postmaster Non-Executive Director, I thought it was
inherent in the name but, yeah.
Over the page, please a further issue with Directors’
declarations; can you summarise very briefly what that
issue was?
This was the point made, I believe, that there was
a form to do with director remuneration. Obviously my
company provides the services. I do not personally
provide the services of my post offices and, therefore,
when I completed the form, I signed it as having no
other direct income. I latterly found out that the
correct approach to that would have been to declare the
companies for which I'm a director and have revenue, but
I was given no guidance by the Company Secretary on
this, I was given a form and told -- and it was part
completed -- and I was told to sign it, and I did it in
the best faith but, in hindsight, I did it wrongly.
If we scroll down we can see there's a section on
"Conduct of the meeting", so they're providing you with
certain documents and we'll get on to the discussion
between you and the investigators in respect of those
documents:
"I wish to reiterate that your attendance at this
investigative meeting is entirely voluntary."
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Again, is it a meeting or is it an interview?
I've never been in a meeting that looked like this one.
“If you chose to attend you may, of course, leave at any
time you wish, or you may choose not to answer some or
all questions. This is not an ‘under caution’
interview; it is an opportunity for both you and the
investigators to discuss the three areas identified
above in order to increase our understanding of what has
happened.
"In attendance at the meeting will be myself and
Andrew. If you wish, you may be accompanied by
a friend, or a National Federation of SubPostmasters
representative, or a colleague, or a legal
representative. However, your companion will not be
able to answer questions on your behalf."
Do you have a view on that position?
Yes.
What is that view?
Again, taking my experience as a longstanding
professional in the business world, I can't imagine any
other situation where a Chief Executive of one company
would visit an organisation it works with, bring
representatives to the room and not be allowed to let
them speak on their behalf. I think that's highly
wrong.
125
"Please provide line detail including the reason for
each ..."
Is that transaction correction?
Yes.
BD?
I'm not sure, actually. I think it might be some sort
of bank deposit or something like that. I'm not sure
what a BD is.
And the TP? It's not a test!
I'd need a bigger book than this! And the TP, that's
the trading period.
Thank you:
"... (and the [trading period] in which is occurred)
so that this can be properly reviewed. Please include
original transaction data."
To get an idea, can we understand how big a business
is your business; how many transactions take place?
So to put it into scale, over the 10-year period or
nine-year period that this data related through, my
branches would have handled maybe somewhere in the order
of £1 billion worth of transactions. I have somewhere
in the order of 35 terminals/40 terminals, maybe, plus
self-serve kiosks, a huge amount of data, none of which
can be interrogated either locally or remotely by me,
except to print out a till receipt from the terminal
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Are you aware of the reason behind it?
No.
It then continues:
"We would like your permission to audio record the
meeting. This is to ensure that we can give our full
attention to the discussion rather than taking lengthy
notes. An audio recording also provides the best record
of a meeting which avoids mistakes or misunderstandings.
We will ensure that you have a copy of the recording as
soon as practicable after the meeting."
If we can please go back to the email
correspondence, that's WITN11180101, and can we please
turn to the bottom of page 3. You say as follows:
"I have begun reviewing the documents you have sent.
"To begin, can you supply the 44-page PDF statement
in Excel format, broken down by branch so we can review
this in a format that enables us to look at data
properly. The document you have provided is not in date
order, and contains no explanation or notes for each
line."
Can you assist us with the issue there?
Have you ever tried to analyse a 44-page pdf? It's
impossible. It's impossible. The level of data we were
given was frankly a disgrace.
It continues:
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it's on, which would be like getting a till receipt for
your shopping and then trying to wade through it.
One afternoon of receipts for that alone could
perhaps run to a length of printout that could be
25 metres long.
You then say:
“Additionally, the attached file cannot be
accessed -- please provide access to where [the] file is
stored or an actual jpg copy."
Do you recall what that issue was?
There was a link to a file which was on a secure server
that I couldn't access.
If we scroll up, please, to the top of page 3. The
response:
“Account statements and letters were sent to
[an address]. I can confirm that I have a copy of each
email which I will access in a few moments and will
forward on to you.
"Can I respectfully suggest that you address the
rest of your requests below to the Post Master Support
Team..."
So that's what "PAST" stands for:
"... as per the letters/emails sent to you at the
time of the occurrence by PAST in which they offered to
work with you to understand the discrepancy."
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So am I right to understand that here the
investigator has received a query from you and the
investigator is directing you to contact a different
team to obtain the underlying information?
Yes, and what concerned me here was that he decided that
he wants to do an investigation without actually having
the data himself to provide, which I thought was
bizarre.
Could we scroll up, please. I think you've expressed
that to him. You say:
“As you must have fully reviewed and collated this
data in order to form your review so far, I would assume
this must be something you have to hand.
"It will surely be quicker for us both for you to
provide me with your working documents (which I assume
must contain the data I have requested) and not delay my
investigation than me start from scratch with another
department.”
If we scroll up, please, to page 1, the response
from Mr Morley. He says:
"I have now had an opportunity to with the PAST.
They will generate an Excel version of the 44-page
Account Statement ... to which you refer. The
spreadsheet will be broken down by branch and in date
order. [They] will provide commentary for transaction
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Partnership Portal", and goes on to detail that issue.
If we scroll up, please, to the top of page 1, you
say:
“lam surprised that you have been able to form
a fully rounded opinion, sufficient to make some of the
very serious accusations in your prior communications
without carrying out a full and detailed review of the
data?
"The amount of distress and worry and this has
caused me since your email letter this week has been
significant."
Can you assist us with your feelings at that time?
It was incredibly stressful, and you have to put into
context for this the fact that, as a Non-Exec Director
and postmaster, who had immersed himself in prior -- not
previous -- not long before this, in really
understanding what we did as an organisation to
postmasters before, the fear and worry this caused me in
terms of it felt like the past repeating itself.
You've said:
"I have been available on the phone ... on which
I regularly receive calls from all manner of departments
in Post Office every single day ... so what number they
have been calling I have no idea! As you can see from
are communications so far -- when I am contacted, I deal
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corrections, however, due to the number of outstanding
[transaction corrections] since 2019 this is no small
ask and will take some time to collate. I will be in
touch again once I have received the document from the
team."
What's your view about what's said there?
Well, again, how do you investigate something and decide
you want to call me in without having done the work
before?
He says:
"Earlier this afternoon I forwarded you a copy of
the emails previously sent to you by PAST. Please can
you acknowledge receipt.”
Were those the emails that you've said went to
an address that wasn't your --
The emails went into my junk because they come from
a random server at Post Office and the server detected
that they were random communications with no
personalisation and it went into my junk mail, which
I never saw. The letters that they sent, they sent to
one of my branches and they were not addressed to the
postmaster. They just looked like a statement of
account.
He then says:
"I have reattached the JPEG screenshot of the
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with things -- rapidly."
Can we please turn to WITN11180103, and can we start
‘on page 2, please. There's continuing correspondence
about disclosure. You email Mr Morley and you say:
“1 will await your proper and fully disclosures and
will then take the matter under advisement.”
This is 20 March:
"In addition, you have provided a highlight section
of Board minutes -- can you please specify the
accusation being made for the avoidance of doubt and the
evidence on which you are relying in this regard?"
‘So we saw the original accusation in that letter
from Mr Bartlett. You have been provided with
a highlighted section of Board minutes. Did you
understand the allegation that was being made against
you?
Not fully. It wasn't clear. They'd highlighted
a section of Board minutes, if I remember rightly, that
referred to conflicts, and it basically said, "No
conflicts". What I later found out, obviously, is that
my job title wasn't sufficient for people to know that
I was a postmaster.
Was the expectation that every time you went to a Board
meeting you would declare that you were a subpostmaster?
It is exactly what I do now.
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Yes. Then, as you say, is that not in your job
description, job title?
Itis in my job title, yes.
If we go to the first page, there is a response from
Mr Morley. The response is as follows:
"I do not intend to enter into pre-interview
protected correspondence regarding advance disclosure
which I am under no legal obligation to provide and is
provided on this occasion out of courtesy in order that
you can have a high level understanding of the topics we
wish to cover, which are set out in the letter from
Mr Bartlett. Further detail regarding [the Post
Office's] concerns will be provided during the
interview."
What do you understand by "pre-interview protected
correspondence"?
I have no idea.
There is now a reference to it being an interview,
rather than a meeting. Was that distinction clear to
you at that point?
It felt like that was what it was going to be from the
start. Again, this is not the way businesses behave
typically, in my experience.
He said:
"Lam seeking in advance of the interview your
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attended the interview. Can you describe for us that
experience?
Well, leading up to the interview it was incredibly
stressful and I have to put into context here, I am
fortunate: I run a reasonable sized business, I have
an amazing support team, I have people who are capable
of interrogating data to a standard that I personally
can't do. I have a very good team around me and even
they had to work incredibly hard to understand the
information we were given.
Going into a meeting which was clearly set up,
whatever they say about it being optional or advisory or
whatever, it certainly didn't feel like that and, from
the tone and the stance of those communications, it
definitely felt as though, if I didn't turn up, things
would be worse.
I went in there, armed as best I could with the
information had gathered. I was concerned for my
reputation, I was concerned for my business. I know
what we'd done in the past and this felt like that. And
so I was incredibly nervous going into the room.
I chose to take my brother with me, as someone who could
bear witness but not speak, and I'm glad I did that,
because that really helped.
At paragraph 24 of your statement, you said that the
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agreement to the recording of the interview which of
course will provide the most accurate record, enables
a more natural conversation and is less time consuming
than the alternative and therefore, has to be in the
best interests of all concerned. If you agree to the
recording then you will be provided with a copy of the
recording post-interview ... If you are not in agreement
to the recording of the interview then we will have to
revert to contemporaneous notes, which are very time
consuming and with the best will in the world provide
aless accurate record. You should be advised that if
you elect to go down the contemporaneous notes route,
then we will have to extent the length of the interview
considerably and based upon my experience of such
interviews I think it would be wise to allow 6 hours for
the interview."
What do you understand by that paragraph?
I thought it was a shocking way to write to anyone.
There were a few things there. Firstly, I sit in Board
meetings pretty much every month and we have notes taken
by the CoSec. The meeting doesn't go any slower and
they are not recorded in any other way than by someone
typing as we go. But the inference here was "Do it our
way or it'll be three times harder".
Thank you, That can come down. On 5 April 2023, you
134
interview was similar in style to a formal police
interview.
Yeah.
In what way?
Well, again, if I compare it to a normal business
meeting, you'd have a conversation, you'd discuss some
documents, you'd find where the issue was, you'd take
some actions to go forward with, and you'd follow up.
This was not that. This was an interview that was being
recorded with the dictating machine in the middle of the
table; evidence was presented, and it was called
"evidence" and it was numbered, much the same as your
documents here, in a way that felt very much like
a police interview; it was being conducted by ex-police
officers; and, whilst the tonality may have had a layer
of warmth and friendliness, it certainly felt very
different from any other business meeting I'd ever
attended.
In that email from Mr Morley, he says:
"Further detail regarding the Post Office's concerns
will be provided during the interview."
Mm.
Were there documents that were presented to you during
interview that you hadn't seen before --
Absolutely. All of them.
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The next day, the auditors attended, I think you've
said, your Post Office: was that every branch, some
branches, the headquarters?
Well, they call them assurance visits now. They're the
same people.
Where did they co?
Wherever they like.
In terms of your own post offices, where did they go?
They go into the post office; they shut my post office
branches to do the audit.
Every branch?
All of them.
I think you've said that there was an issue regarding
stamps that arose during that audit.
Mr Ismail referred to this earlier. Prior to this
audit, in one of my branches, I'd been contacted by
a department at the Post Office who had instructed my
team leader -- in each branch I have someone who runs
the branch on a day-to-day basis -- they'd instructed
them to do a series of entries onto Horizon to make
adjustments to our stock, and these adjustments were
unsupported by any data, and when I challenged back and
said, "Could you provide the evidence to support these
changes you want to make on my account because, if
I make these changes I will have a loss in branch", that
137
did; and the third part was a previously uninformed
adjustment that they intended to make, which they did in
multiple branches. It wasn't just done to me, either,
it was done to about 30 different postmasters,
I believe.
Looking back at that experience, what is your view about
the conduct that took place on that occasion?
Well, historically, we were going in the backdoor and
changing stuff; here, we were walking in the front door
and doing it.
Did somebody talk you through those changes that were
being made?
They told me they were going to make them but they told
me at the time they were going to make them. I didn't
get a chance to challenge or see any data. I was told
that I could dispute them, which I obviously did.
We will look at the formal withdrawal of the allegations
in a moment but, in broad terms, how was agreement
ultimately reached with the Post Office?
So when the process shifted from them realising that
I wasn't perhaps as the guilty party that they had in
their mind, because I assume that's what the visit to my
branches was to verify, things seemed to relax a little.
They passed the matter over to the team based in
Chesterfield led by Mel Park, and that absolutely
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never got followed up.
When they came to do the assurance visit, as it's
now called, I was instructed, though I hadn't been told
prior, that the lead person had been instructed at the
end of the audit to make adjustments onto Horizon by
logging on with their own log-in and making adjustments
to my stock position, which would cause a far
significant change in my balance and, therefore, a loss
in my branch. I said to them, "That doesn't seem like
the right thing to do", and I was basically told they
were doing it anyway.
So to get the sequence correct, you had an interview
with investigators. The next day, the assurance visit
takes place. They're presumably checking your accounts.
for matters relating to the interview but, at the same
time, is this a separate issue that they are making
adjustments to your account in relation to stamps?
No, I think there's three things here. There's the
historical discrepancy that they are claiming has
occurred on the central account, some of which occurred
a long time ago for various circumstances, no doubt
we'll get to that shortly; a second part, which was to
do an assurance visit, which I assumed was because they
wanted to make certain what I'd said I had in the branch
matched what I had in the branch, which it pretty much
138
changed the situation.
When it came out of the investigations department
and was being run by Mel's team -- Mel is an accountant
with commercial experience from prior -- it was —-
I wouldn't say a breath of fresh air but it was a proper
business conversation. Myself and my Group Operations.
Director, we travelled up to Chesterfield and met face
to face with the team up there, we met with Mel and
three or four of her team. We sat down in a room like
proper businesspeople, discussed matters, discussed
about what could that have occurred, went through the
data, and we worked together as two teams working as one
for probably the next, I don't remember, four to six
weeks, and we were able to resolve the vast majority of
the queries on account, which ended up not being
an issue at all.
Do you know why it didn't go to that department to begin
with or did it go to that department to begin with?
To the best of my knowledge, I was never contacted by
Mel Park prior to that. I had never spoken to Mel Park
prior to that.
Let's look at the correspondence when the matter is
closed. Can we please turn to POL00448303. If we start
‘on page 2, please. The interview was 5 April 2023. If
we look here, we can see an email from you to Melanie
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Park on 16 January 2024. You say:
"I still await the finalised reporting on our
account and also the written confirmation of the
withdrawal of the investigation.
"You will appreciate that whilst I am keen to
commence payment of any liability, I would like [the
Post Office] to keep its side of the process so that we
can ensure that we are all aligned around the position."
If we scroll up, please. Ms Park says:
"Apologies I will talk to the Legal Team today to
see why this hasn't been done."
If we scroll up there is a response from yourself
to -- in fact, it's not a response. You forward the
matter to the Chairman and you say:
"Henry
"Below you'll see correspondence from between myself
and Mel Park regarding the fact that [your] trading
account has yet to be updated with the removal of the
invalid claims of losses nor a letter of withdrawal of
the investigation to be issued.
"Who is responsible. Legal. Again. How are Legal
in the way of all things progress and good in this
business? Proof, if proof was needed, that their
fingers are in every part of the pie affecting our
ability to get work done to such a level that it is
144
Is that the further memo that we've seen prior to
a Board meeting?
Possibly. I'm not sure.
“We should see tomorrow whether our [Non-Executive
Director] colleagues should take action. I told Andrew
yesterday that all of the [Group Executive] and FOUR
Main Board Directors had been investigated. He was
incredulous."
What do you understand by that sentence?
Well, as I say, the Investigations Team and Legal are
everywhere, and I've never sat on a Board where more
than half of the Board have been investigated for
something. It's continuous and it's very hard to get
anything done without being investigated or without
having Legal stop you doing it.
Do you think that in some way there is some
hypersensitivity or overadjustment because of what
happened in the past at the Post Office, and that might
listen why the Legal Department are so involved in
matters within the company?
Possibly.
Can you think of another explanation?
We just have a lot of lawyers.
In terms of numbers, personalities, individuals; what's
the concern?
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frankly beyond belief."
Now, putting aside your own investigation, because
you're referring here to legal again, what was that
‘other concern that you had regarding the Legal
Department?
Well, the business is incredibly hamstrung by legal in
many, many ways. In all aspects, Legal get into the
mix, whether it's an HR issue, an operational issue,
they run the Investigation Team. They're everywhere.
What was your concern in relation to your own
investigation?
I wanted a letter confirming the matter was closed.
If we up we can see Mr Staunton's response. He says:
"Dear Both,
"This is completely unsatisfactory -- I was under
the impression after talking to one of the
[Non-Executive Directors] handling this (Lorna?) that
the report was wrapped up many weeks ago. I understand
the tremendous upset you (and Saf in the case of his
investigation) have been subjected to. This requires
an investigation. I have sent a filenote of the views
of our Postmaster [Non-Executive Directors with regards
to] Ben Foat.”
Is that the Project Pineapple memo?
No. No, I don't think it is.
142
All of that. I mean, we have, you know, a lot of
lawyers doing a lot of things, but Legal are responsible
for more than just drafting contracts and compliance.
They seem to be -- you know, investigation sits within
Legal. I would have thought investigations would sit
better in HR. You know, the parameters within which
Legal operate seems to be unclear and sometimes I'm not
sure who's running the business, whether it's Legal or
the business.
Let's turn to the letter that withdraws the accusations.
Can we please turn to WITN11180104. It's 8 February
this year:
“As you're aware, the Assurance & Complex
Investigation Team ... at [the Post Office] conducted
a fact-finding investigation with your assistance."
Did you understand that to be a fact-finding
investigation?
No.
"lam writing to you to inform you that this matter is
closed from the perspective of A&Cl."
Was it open in respect of some other department, as
it was closed in their respect?
Not that I'm aware of.
"The matters centred on two main themes:
"4. Did you, in your capacity as a Non-Executive
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Director ... make false, misleading or incomplete
declarations on a ‘Remuneration form or Directors and
Other Key Management Personnet ...
"2. Did you, through your ownership of UOE, fail to
address or service shortfall debt owed to [the Post
Office] accrued by [your company].
“In respect of the first matter, our findings are
that the training and advice you were provided in
relation to the completion of this declaration was such
that it was unreasonable for you to know whether your
financial position with [the Post Office] should or
should not have been declared.”
So it seems an acceptance there that it would have
been unreasonable for you to have been aware.
Correct.
"Therefore A&CI has recommended that this matter should
not be taken further. We have also recommended to the
Corporate Secretariat that the instructions, training
and advice to future potential directors is improved in
respect of this declaration. This has been logged with
Group Assurance for them to monitor the changes in
approach."
That has been carried out.
Thank you.
"In respect of the second matter, I understand that
145
investigations should be carried out?
I think you start with the premise that there's a query.
Can we work together to resolve this query from
an operational perspective? Investigations should deal
with when that becomes obvious as more than just
a query, and there's some sort of criminality, or
attempted fraud, or something, you know, significant
that is out of the norm of normal business. To assume
that it requires the level of investigation -- sorry,
"fact-finding" -- that they suggest and yet not provide
that documentation to the other party, immediately and
fully, so that they can offer suggestions as to what the
issue might be, seems at odds with a partnership
relationship.
To what extent do you see the issue as cultural rather
than structural?
Yes, I think it's a bit of both.
How would you change it?
I think the terms of reference for the Investigations
Department needs to be reviewed; the approach and style;
the use of what are clearly confrontational styles of
messaging need to be adapted; and it should be -- there
should be more parity between the two relationships.
It's a big challenge in the Post Office that there is
this imbalance of power, and you can call them optional
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you have for some time now been liaising directly with
Central Operations Director, Melanie Park, to address
the shortfalls at your branches and to reach a mutually
agreed outcome. Now that this arrangement has been
agreed, A&Cl can close the fact-finding investigation.
“I can, therefore, confirm that our fact-find in
relation to these matters is now closed. I would like
to take this opportunity to thank you for your patience
and cooperation in this matter.”
What's your view of this letter?
Itwas late coming. I was pleased to receive it.
Have you discussed any crossovers between the way that
you were treated in this investigation and other
investigations that the Inquiry has heard about with
other directors, or with anybody else within the
company?
I spoke directly to Ben Foat, who the team reported in
to, and I said to him "You've got to look at way this
works. Having experienced it myself, we have not learnt
sufficiently how to treat postmasters properly. There
are horrific echoes of the past. The terminology, the
approach, you've got to learn from this and I'm happy to
sit down with anyone you like and share my experience so
you get it from my side".
Taking your own case as an example, how do you think
146
meetings, or whatever you want to call them: they are
clearly not optional if you're a postmaster.
We saw the Project Birch report and those
recommendations. Are you aware at all of those
recommendations having been taken forward?
There was a document presented to Board for noting which
you brought up on screen earlier today with Mr Ismail,
which was the attempt by Post Office, I think, to adopt
some of those. The execution is a little lacking.
‘Are you aware any in-depth discussions of the way
forward?
Not sufficiently. No one asked for me to share my
experience with them within the Investigations Team.
Has there been any discussion about looking at the
Horizon system as part of the work carried out by the
investigators? We saw the document with Mr Ismail
before that referred to, for example, investigating
those who worked for subpostmasters, but that document
didn't seem to address the issue of actually digging
down to any root causes of any problems. Is that
something you've discussed in any depth at Board level?
I don't understand the question, sorry.
Part of this Inquiry has been looking into a lack of
investigation into the root causes of a problem that
might be traced to the Horizon system itself.
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Yeah.
In fact, there has been evidence where there have been
cases where the Post Office has said there has been
a loss but, in fact, the loss itself has not been
investigated as to whether the Post Office has in fact
received a loss.
Mm.
Has there been discussion at Board level about that
aspect of the investigation process?
At Board level, the majority of discussions around
discrepancies, as to how they're referred to, relates to
the line item in the P&L on a monthly basis. The way of
handling those discrepancies has come up a few times in
different guises but, currently, there is no clear
strategy on the way forward for that.
I'm going to take you to one more document before we
take our mid-afternoon break, and that's another
document that we've seen today. It's FUJ00243203. This
is the correspondence with Fujitsu in relation to the
use of, or provision of, evidence in a criminal
prosecution. This is 19 April 2024, so soon after your
own investigation.
Do you, having read this, consider it appropriate
for the Post Office Investigations Team to be contacting
Fujitsu in this way?
149
Investigation Team before they passed anything over to
City of London Police, or any other police force, was
that if we believed there was a criminal act that has
happened and we're being asked to provide evidence, that
evidence should come to Board first, be approved as
appropriate and then be released, because it doesn't
happen that often that it presents a problem for the
Board to look at it a few times a year, and then make
judgement that the data is sufficient and right that we
can pass it forward.
That dispute that we saw in the correspondence between
Mr Patterson and Nick Read, was that something that was
raised with you or in discussions with members of the
Board at all?
So Mr Read had regular discussions with the CEO of many
partner businesses of the organisations that we work
with and would update the Board regularly on his
discussions with them, but we wouldn't get the minutiae
‘or a copy of correspondence. I wasn't aware of this
matter and I wasn't aware that Fujitsu were taking the
line that they were. I believe that the tone of
communication between the two organisations shifted when
Owen Woodley engaged with them and seems to be less
fractious now.
25 Q. Do you see a way forward for the two organisations to
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A. So I believe this relates to a matter where the City of
London Police have decided there is a case that requires
investigation. I think that's wholly different from
a situation where the Post Office is checking its own
homework. The level of rigour that I believe and trust
the City of London Police to work to is a standard
I think we would all agree should be of the very highest
and I trust that, if the City of London Police require
information, that there is good cause for it.
In those circumstances, I think it's only right that
‘our Investigations Team should work to provide the
information for our law enforcement people to do their
job and the question here really is, I think: can we
rely upon Horizon as a point of reference in those
situations?
Clearly, Fujitsu do not wish to be associated in
that regard and it's clear from their letters. But
I think also those letters, you have to look into
context of the time, and that was the moment at which
Fujitsu were either on the brink, or were just about to
apologise for their part in this. But also, it's the
conversation between two CEOs trying to protect their
side of their businesses.
So I think that, for me, sitting on the Board as
a non-exec, the important thing that I wanted from our
150
work together?
A. I think we have to. It's essential.
2
Do you think it's achievable?
A. I don't own the relationship; it would be hard for me to
answer.
Q. In light of the correspondence that you've seen, do you
think that there are issues, significant issues, that
need to be overcome in that respect?
A. Well, I think you can look at two letters from two CEOs
in a moment in time and draw conclusions, but it's
a moment in time. I don't believe that Fujitsu and Post
Office are unable to work together.
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
Sir, that might be an appropriate moment to take our
mid-afternoon break.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Certainly.
MR BLAKE: Can we come back at 3.15, please.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes. Fine.
MR BLAKE: Thank you very much.
(3.00 pm)
(A short break)
(3.15 pm)
MR BLAKE: Thank you, Mr Jacobs, we're going to address
a few different topics now, starting with the Horizon
system itself. If we could bring onto screen your
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witness statement, WITN11180100, and it's paragraph 17,
page 5. You set out there a number of issues that you
have with Horizon. Is it right to say that you started
using Horizon when your franchise first began in 2014?
Yes.
Let's go through briefly those issues that you've
raised. The first is that:
"It is not a visual, user-friendly system. The
system is primarily text based and there are few command
prompts.
"[Second] It is difficult for postmasters to analyse
data and correct potential inaccuracies on the system.
It then takes significant effort and often a manual
review of transactions to investigate a potential
error."
Does that tie into one of the issues you raised with
your investigation and the access on information?
Yes, there are two parts there, firstly the
investigation being as discussed, but also out the back
of that, the lessons learned from my side was we now
have our own manual checks that's done in every branch
on every till, every day, off Horizon to verify our
balances.
I think you've said in your witness statement that you
do that because of concerns that you have with the Post
153
postmaster."
Is that along the same lines as you've just been
describing?
Indeed. The rest of my business all operated on
a software platform that I can drill and analyse
everything, and this is nothing like that.
Can we go to our expert reports, that's EXPG0000007 at
page 19. Page 19 sets out the issues experienced with
Horizon in the last 12 months, the postmasters have
experienced. Are these issues that are familiar to you,
at all?
They would be familiar to every postmaster.
Looking at these issues, and also the issues that you've
highlighted in your witness statement, do you consider
that they are sufficiently well known within the
business?
Explain the question, sorry?
You're aware of them because you are a subpostmaster,
and you operate branches. Those who completed the
Inquiry's survey are aware of them because they are also
subpostmasters. Do you think that that information,
those messages, reaches the upper levels of the company?
No.
What's the issue there?
They never touched Horizon.
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Office's tolerance for error; is that right?
Well, the tolerance is zero.
What's your concern in that respect?
There is no system that can be wrong 0 per cent of the
time.
Looking at (c):
“Postmasters that run multiple branches cannot
obtain a global view of data and are required to be
physically present at the relevant Post Office to
interrogate data ..."
So you run a number of different branches but there
is no way of drawing all often your data together?
No, there is no central access that's available in real
time. You can get delayed information weeks or days
later, potentially, depending on the time of the month,
using a system called Branch Hub, but this has limited
data, and you can't drill individual transactions. The
only way to get individual data or analysis on an error
is to drive to the branch, walk in the front door, print
it out and then, by hand, wade through a printed report.
There is no Excel export or anything like that.
Then (d):
"The Horizon IT System is effective as a functioning
till, but it is not sufficiently sophisticated to manage
and analyse a modern business as a professional
154
Does one have to personally use Horizon to understand
those issues or is there a way of communicating that to
the Board or to Executives that you don't see happening?
I think it's hard to realise how archaic the system is
unless you have the privilege of using it, and I think
what Mr Ismail and myself bring to the Board is that
level of real-world experience where we can share the
realities of operating within this -- the confines of
this system and other processes that we have in the
organisation, this just being part of that. But I think
that more could be done to immerse senior leaders within
the business, and Board members, in understanding how
hard it is to run a branch.
In terms of the Horizon replacement, the NBIT system,
when do you realistically think that that will be
implemented?
I would suggest you speak to the Head of Technology.
Do you have any concerns about the implementation?
It's late. Very late.
Do you have any concerns over and above the delay?
Yes, I think that it's very important we don't just get
a Horizon replacement. This business doesn't need
a replacement for Horizon; it needs a fit-for-purpose
computer system that will be capable of managing the
business 20 years from now, 15 years from now, because
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whatever we built from now, is going to have to last
beyond the decade.
Is that properly understood at Executive level or Board
level?
I think it's beginning to be but, at the moment, it's
often referred to as Horizon replacement; it's not. New
Branch IT is not a great name for it but it's a better
description of what its needs to be.
I'm going to move on now to Project Phoenix and Past
Roles. I've dealt with that in great detail with
Mr Ismail so we'll skip through a number of documents
relatively quickly but, if you want to take time over
any of the documents, please do say. If we start,
please, with POL00448615. This is a Group Executive
report on the Past Roles Review, dated 17 January 2024.
Can we please turn to page 6. In your witness
statement, I think you've said that you originally were
lined up for a role in this work -- sorry, it's over the
page, page 6. Can you assist us with that? We have
here, for example, Mark Eldridge listed as the
Postmaster Non-Executive Director?
Well, in the original daft that I was sent, I was
assigned as the Postmaster NED to that committee.
What happened to that?
The process went through a number of different
157
a great deal of correspondence on the Phoenix and Past
Roles issue. This is an email from yourself sent on
10 February 2024, and you say:
"It does however seem odd that not a single one is
suspended whilst this is ongoing? Why is that? We seem
to suspend people on a regular basis when investigations
are ongoing? Why not on this matter?"
What is your concern in relation to the suspension
or lack of suspension of individuals?
So I've had the privilege to attend this Inquiry on
a number of days and see other witnesses give evidence,
some of whom were involved in investigations in the
past, some of whom remain in the organisation today, and
I don't understand how you can change the culture of
an organisation and those people still be taking a wage
from the business. So it was my view that, whether or
not we could deal with that now, because the Inquiry is
going on, or whether we should wait until the Inquiry
ended, these people had to be not within the business on
a daily basis and, if the only way to deal with that now
was to suspend them on full pay, I would rather they
were paid and sat at home than be in the organisation
creating a culture that isn't fit.
Where do you draw the line between particular named
individuals, individuals who were in particular roles,
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iterations and the final constitution of the group
didn't include me.
‘Are you aware of any reasons for that?
It wasn't communicated to me directly. I was led to
believe that it could be because I was a postmaster and,
therefore, might be conflicted.
Who is Mr Eldridge then; is he not a postmaster?
He is indeed a postmaster. He is the Postmaster
Director.
So why is it that his name is there and yours isn't?
You'd have to ask the Chair of the panel, I suppose.
What reason do you think it is?
I don't know, if I'm honest. Mark's role within the
business is more executive. I'm non-executive.
Everyone else on that committee is executive. Perhaps
it was felt that it was an executive committee rather
then a non-executive committee.
Do you think that the concerns that you've raised in
respect of that project has played a role in any way?
I don't believe we'd have moved forward in the way we
are now moving forward if myself and Mr Ismail had not
been very forceful and repeated in our requests to get
this sorted.
Can we please turn to POL00448309. This is just one of
the emails that we've been through. We've been through
158
et cetera?
So you made an example this morning of someone who had
reappeared in a different role in a communication at
a post office that had been closed. Part of the problem
of the organisation is, up until recently, it didn't
know who or when people who were in the business
currently may have been involved in the past behaviour
of the organisation, and so the Phoenix/Past Roles
process was about understanding who we have in the
organisation, what they were doing in the past when we
made such terrible decisions, and what are they doing
now, and is -- what's the risk?
Now, there are some people, and Phoenix, it latterly
turns out -- because again we talked earlier about Board
communication, Phoenix and Past Roles were only ever
referred to as Phoenix at the Board, up until recently,
when they were more clearly defined as two separate
projects, but Phoenix is designed to identify what were
known as the "reds", the reds being people who are very
high-risk category 1 people, involved in investigations
who, you know, are -- clearly, should not be in the
organisation, as opposed to people who were perhaps
employed by the organisation at the time when we were
doing these things, but were not directly involved.
They may have been in a completely different department.
160
(40) Pages 157 - 160
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
1 They might even have worked in one of our directly
2 managed branches at the time and now are in a position
3 of leadership.
4 That's totally different to someone who was directly
5 involved in investigations. So, for me, that's the
6 first distinction, and I don't believe we should blanket
7 remove everyone who was there on the date, but we need
8 to understand who works for us and what was their role
9 in the past, and if it was to do such wrong things, they
10 have no place in this organisation -- yesterday, today,
1 or tomorrow.
12 Can we please look at POL00448297. This email we've
13 just seen is February, moving to 19 April. We saw this
14 document either yesterday or today:
15 “Over the past couple of days, a number of
16 [postmasters] have been in compact with Saf and I in
17 regard to recent statements at the Inquiry by current
18 employees who are still in the business and were
19 involved in the Horizon scandal."
20 You say:
21 "We are regularly told that the review is underway
22 and must be done carefully to ensure accuracy in
23 decision making -- which I fully understand. But to
24 date we have not received any information on a single
25 employee who has been suspended or dismissed as a result
161
1 person then did a short-term interim role and left; we
2 had another one that joined, and she had her contract
3 terminated for performance, I believe; and we've had
4 gaps between them, as well; and now Karen has been with
5 us -- I'm not sure how long, maybe -- nearly a year,
6 perhaps.
7 Do these signify any wider problems within the business
8 in terms of retention, in terms of consistency and
9 handover?
10 Well, in an organisation of any size, the People Team is
11 fundamental in building -- not only assisting the CEO to
12 deliver the culture change that you want to deliver but
13 also in helping to build out the skill and capability
14 and the second-tier leadership, so that you have
15 continuity and capability as you continue to grow and
16 evolve your business. Not having a Chief People Officer
17 ‘or a People Team that was under, you know, a steady
18 leadership, obviously has affected our ability to make
19 change, I think.
20 We saw yesterday a couple of documents that seemed to
21 put a lot of emphasis on the duties owed to employees,
22 and that was given, perhaps, as a reason for not
23 suspending people.
24 A. Mm.
25 Q. Are you aware of the emphasis being placed on care to
163
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of this ongoing review which started nearly 2 years ago
but still remains incomplete."
What's your view as to the pace of these
investigations?
That they weren't moving.
Are they moving now?
They are, but not sufficiently quickly, in my opinion.
Who do you consider to be responsible for that lack of
pace?
Well, it's been incredibly difficult, because we've
had -- I lose count -- I think it's five or six Chief
People Officers whilst I've been at the organisation,
which is very hard to build culture, very hard to build
aprocess. And where something like this is being
managed, I believe by the People Team now -- Karen
McEwan, who is copied in on this email and is the
current Chief People Officer, has taken up activity on
this at a far better pace than previously. But I think
without the push -- and continuous push -- from me and
Mr Ismail, and others on the Board, then it would just
be going at a slow pace.
Why has there been such great turnover in terms of the
People Officers?
Well, there was -- one of them went on maternity leave;
‘one was an interim cover for maternity leave, that
162
employees over and above wider issues?
I'm aware of the suggestion. It doesn't stack, for me.
You know, suspending someone and sacking someone are
very different and you're not making a judgement on
their guilt by suspending them whilst you investigate.
Is it your current view that there should be a move
towards suspension?
Well, I'd like to see us move towards removing anyone
who is classified as Phoenix.
Moving on to Project Pineapple and, again, we've seen
these emails quite a lot, so we'll move through them
quite rapidly. Can we first turn to POL00448302, and
it's page 4. Page 4 is the note of the conversation.
I think I can actually clarify the date now. It seems
to have been sent by Henry Staunton on Sunday,
14 January.
Mm-hm.
If we scroll slightly above, we can see a further email
from Mr Staunton, saying:
"Dear Both,
"Thank you for your time today."
Mm.
So it does seem as though the date actually of that note
and that conversation is 14 January; is that your
understanding?
164
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It was definitely the weekend. I think it was a Sunday
night, yeah.
Thank you. You've confirmed, if we scroll up onto the
second page, that it was a fair reflection of your
discussion, and then you add further detail.
Yes. I mean, it was designed as an internal aide
memoire, rather than some, you know, document that would
be released for general public review.
When it was provided to those beyond the Non-Executive
Director teams, what was your view of that?
It was a mess.
Were you aware that it was going to the CEO?
I think the intention was that Mr Staunton would share
it with the non-execs first. To be clear, Henry had
a conversation with the two of us, and this was off the
back of Richard Taylor being shared in the press about
some recording of him making comments about postmasters
all being guilty. But we'd had a conversation with
Henry, and Henry was very conscious of this two-tiering
of the Board and said, "Look, I don't want there to be
silos of information. I want this to be a flat Board,
and part of that is to make certain that the other NEDs
know what we've talked about. Do you have any problem
with me sharing it with the NEDs so that they're on the
same page as you, and get a sense of what we've talked
165
Bartlett, Ben Foat and Martin Roberts] as ‘untouchable’
in our call earlier today was worrying enough ..."
Just pausing there, what did you understand the term
“untouchable” to be a reference to?
So we had had a Non-Executive Director-only meeting and
Nick Read was in the meeting for the first part of it,
during which we were talking about many things, and
Mr Read made reference to the Investigations Team and
the others who were around that -- so Foat and
Roberts -- being "untouchable" because he couldn't deal
with anything with them; he was under investigation at
the time, so was Henry, and, at this point, I don't
think I'd received my release, so I was under
investigation as well, and I think there were others on
the Board under investigation, as well. Jane Davies was
under investigation. The list was quite lengthy.
Could the Board properly function during that period?
It could carry out its Board functions in terms of its
day-to-day Board roles, but when it came to dealing with
specifics around any investigation or seeming to get in
the way of any investigation, clearly that was --
everyone was conflicted, so it became difficult.
Therefore, they were untouchable.
Can we turn to POL00448301. This is, again, a message
from Mr Staunton. This is the reference there at the
167
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about?", and we were like, "Absolutely, no problem".
And I think the intention was, once the NEDs were
aware, we'd share it with the Chief Executive, Nick
Read.
Did you ever intend for it to be shared with Ben Foat or
Martin Roberts?
Not in its format, though the content was true.
If we turn, please, to POL00448383. If we start on the
third page, we see the email there from Mr Staunton,
confirming that it had been sent on.
There's reference there, I think, to an apology.
Was there an apology to you from Mr Read?
So I spoke with Mr Read after the incident occurred, and
Henry had said to me, "Give Nick a call. Let's sort
this out. You know, he's very apologetic for what's
happened". And so I gave Mr Read a call: he didn't
apologise, in so many words, no.
If we turn to the first page, please, we see there you
say:
"[You] strongly echo Saf's view on this.
"The release of the confidential briefing note to
the very people we have highlighted in the document is
a horrendous breach of trust."
You then go on to say:
"Your description of these three men [that's John
166
end to Nick being under huge pressures, and was very
apologetic. Were you aware of Mr Read being under huge
pressures at that point in time?
January was an incredibly high-pressure month for the
Post Office. It was, you know, 14 days since the
Mr Bates vs The Post Office broadcast, which had,
I think, surprised the Post Office how strong the
feeling nationally had been, and the output from that
was incredibly intense on Mr Read and others, but
particularly on Mr Read. I think he was called to
a Select Committee around this time as well.
Was it a surprise to you? You've said that the Bates
drama was a surprise to the company.
Mm.
‘As a subpostmaster, was it a surprise to you?
Sadly not.
Were there others on the Board who it had not come as
a surprise to, so far as you were aware?
I think seeing something portrayed in the drama brings
to life what you've read or what you've heard in a way
that is indescribable, and I think the reaction from the
public just shows the truth of what happened. And
I think everyone on the Board felt a much deeper sense
of a need to get this right, and it just elevated
everything in terms of making certain that things moved
168
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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
forwards. So I think the two things that have made
a massive difference over the last few years have been
the Inquiry, which has been both helpful and
challenging, and the drama, which has been incredibly
powerful.
Can we please turn to POL00448514. This is again
an email that we saw yesterday with Mr Ismail. I'll
just take you to the second page -- over the page,
please. It's the email from Mr Roberts, where he says
that he would now ask that you please put in writing the
apology and retract all the allegations and statements
presented in the email that he was copied in on.
Why, in your view, have things broken down so badly
that there is this bickering at the highest levels of
the Post Office?
When I met with Mr Roberts, which was a few days prior,
I think -- the day before this email, actually, it was
30 January -- we'd had a very positive and collaborative
conversation. Saf and I met with him together, face to
face, we shook hands at the end. It was a good meeting
and I think we all left thinking that we had settled the
boat.
And I was surprised to receive this email, but
I understood where it came from. Mr Roberts had been
very stressed and concerned by the comments we'd raised.
169
I think Henry was dismissed before we could actually
take this any further forward, as my memory recalls.
Did you discuss it with Mr Read?
No.
Why not?
In my call with Mr Read I was quite surprised by his
reaction to my call. I was expecting -- well, if I had
made the error that he made in forwarding a confidential
document to a party that shouldn't have seen it, I would
have been very humble and apologetic, offered to put it
right if I could, try and broker some sort of situation
with the people who had been forced to read something
out of context. But Mr Read didn't offer any of those
things and, in fact, suggested it was Henry's fault for
forwarding it in a unsecured format, along with other
documents, that caused it.
And it so threw me, his response, that I was --
I didn't think there was any point in discussing it
further.
What do you think was behind that response?
You would have to ask Mr Read.
Is it once again bickering at the top level, is this
Mr Read and Mr Staunton?
It's interesting because Mr Read and Mr Staunton have
a lot of like history, they're both retailers from
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He shared that with us in the meeting, and I think,
reputationally, he felt he'd been damaged and this was
him requesting that restoration of reputation.
I think you say on the first page that, essentially,
while you would have put it differently, the substance
‘of your complaint remained the same: is that right?
Yes. The filenote that Henry wrote was a rapid-fire
internal document. Were it to have been shared as
a performance review, I would have drafted it
differently.
Can we please turn to POL00448384. We went through the
drafting process with Mr Ismail yesterday or this
morning in relation to the points below this. If we
scroll down, we can see "Key Agenda Items for Upcoming
Board Meeting". We understand, I think, that
Mr Staunton was dismissed shortly after this.
Yes.
If we scroll up to the top, we can see Mr Staunton had
said:
"Elliot, I think you were going to raise a number of
these issues with Nick. His responses would help Saf
finalise his note.
"How would you like me to take this forward?"
Can you assist us with how that matter was taken
forward?
170
successful careers and, on the face of it, I thought
they had a pretty good relationship, but I'm not sure.
that it ended up that way.
The final substantive topic that I'm going to deal with,
very shortly, is the Grant Thornton report that we saw
earlier today. I won't take you through those
reports -- we've already been through them -- but what,
for you, is the most important message from those
reports?
The Grant Thornton report?
Yes.
So the Grant Thornton report was produced on the request
of Henry Staunton when he was Chair, and Henry was very
keen to get governance back in line with where it needed
to be. The Grant Thornton report, in its initial draft,
was very damning of our governance capabilities, and
rightly so. It was softened a little bit in the
redraft, I think, because it was felt to be awkward and
difficult and I think it raised very important issues,
which are at the heart of what this Inquiry is trying to
get to the bottom of.
Who was responsible for pushing forward changes to that
report?
Well, at the time, Mr Staunton had been dismissed. We
had an interim Chair, and it fell to the interim Chair,
172
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Ben Tidswell, to lead the activity on that. I'm not
sure of all of the elements but my understanding was
that Ben Tidswell, and I would expect probably the CEO
and Lorna Gratton were involved in those discussions.
I was less involved in that.
Q. Thank you. Finally, is there any matter that we haven't
addressed or any particular recommendations that you
consider are appropriate that we haven't addressed today
that you would like to raise?
A. I think the Post Office is an amazing organisation with
great people within it but it isn't living up to what it
should be. It works best if it's given a clear
prescription, and it needs this Inquiry to give it its
prescription. It can be a great organisation but we're
not there yet.
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
Sir, there are no questions from Core Participants,
so unless you have any questions, sir?
Questioned by SIR WYN WILLIAMS
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I It's really out of curiosity, more than
the likelihood that I need precise answers from you, but
could we go back to the investigation that took place in
relation to your branches, simply to fill in a gap that
I think should be filled.
By my reckoning, we've had evidence from you of the
173
is that a different team is looking at it?
A. Yes, and we went through with that team, line by line,
forensically over 44 pages of what was a pdf file, and
dealt with them line by line by line.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = That's what you meant when you were
describing what must have been a series of meetings,
I guess, which were much more like business meetings
rather than interviews?
A. Indeed.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: § Okay. That took the better part of the
rest of the year, yes?
A. No. I don't recall the exact period but I think the
whole thing was wrapped up probably by September, but it
took until the next year for someone in Legal to issue
me a letter saying that they'd closed it.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes. So you are, I think, asking me to
accept that it all having been wrapped up as between the
businesspeople, if I can put it in that way, by
September, whatever it was -
A. 2023.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS:
Legal to sign it off.
A. Well, it was -- I think it would be fair to say that the
company required it to go through a number of governance
steps because they didn't want it to be seen as, you
175
the delay thereafter was in getting
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interview -- I'll call it an interview -- on 5 April and
then the audit which took place on 6 April. Then we
have kind of jumped to January the next year.
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, I'd just like you to tell
me briefly what actually happened.
A. Thank you, sir.
So between the audit -- post-audit, they then passed
the work over to the team at Chesterfield, who then
worked with us on --
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Sorry to stop you. When you say "they",
you mean the two investigators who had interviewed you,
yes?
A. Yes, sir.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So that I can sort of trace this in the
way I want to, essentially, am I right to infer that
they did that because of the answers that you gave them
in the interview, or did something else happen?
A. I would assume that to be the case. I was never told
why, but I wasn't asked back for a second interview, no.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Okay, right, so interview is over, audit
is over. Presumably you raise a dispute part about what
had happened over the stamps?
A. Yes, and the other balances, yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, and then the next thing that happens
174
know, a non-exec getting something signed off unfairly,
or improperly. It required a number of layers of
approval. Those layers of approval were achieved but
the document never got written, and I think it was just
it went round the loop a few too many times and got lost
‘on the way.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: All right. So it's perfectly
understandable that justice was being seen to be done,
as well as being done, in your particular instance, so
I follow that.
‘So, overall, would you say that taking, what is it,
seven or eight months to resolve it from the point of
the audit was reasonable or unreasonable in the
particular circumstances prevailing?
A. I think it was an incredibly long period of time to wrap
something up. If you can come next day for an audit, it
shouldn't take seven months to write a letter.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right, okay. Thank you for filling in
the gaps, Mr Jacobs.
THE WITNESS: My pleasure, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: That's all I have, Mr Blake.
So in the absence of any further questions, it just
remains for me to thank you very much for making your
witness statement and for giving evidence this
afternoon. I'm very grateful to you.
176
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MR BLAKE: Thank you, sir.
There's one small bureaucratic matter that have to
deal with and that is one witness statement from Phase 3
hasn't yet been read into the record and I just want to,
for the purposes of the transcript, confirm that
a statement has been provided by Penny Thomas and that
can be found at WITN00960100, and that is now in
evidence in the Inquiry.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Thank you very much, Mr Blake.
MS PRICE: Thank you.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So we won't be sitting tomorrow but we'll
resume at 10.00 on Thursday, yes?
MR BLAKE: Yes, that's with Mr Greenhow.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes. Thank you all very much.
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
(3.53 pm)
(The hearing adjourned until 10.00 am
on Thursday, 26 September 2024)
177
INDEX
SARFARAZ GULAM ISMAIL (continued) ..
Questioned by MR BLAKE (continued) .
Questioned by MR JACOBS .....
Questioned by SIR WYN WILLIAMS ..
ELLIOT MARC JACOBS (sworn) ...
Questioned by MR BLAKE ....
Questioned by SIR WYN WILLIAMS ..
178
24 September 2024
88
100
102
102
173
(45) Pages 177 - 178
MR BLAKE: [30] 1/5
1/7 39/8 56/13 56/17
56/21 56/23 86/10
86/12 87/23 88/2
100/12 100/14 102/1
102/5 102/7 102/11
102/13 102/16 102/18
102/22 102/24 152/13
152/17 152/19 152/23
173/16 177/1 177/13
177/15
MR JACOBS: [2]
88/5 100/9
MS PRICE: [1]
177/10
SIR WYN WILLIAMS:
[44] 1/6 37/10 37/18
38/6 38/24 39/5 39/7
56/16 56/22 86/8
86/11 88/1 88/3
100/13 100/16 101/5
1041/7 101/9 104/15
101/17 101/20 102/2
102/6 102/12 102/15
102/17 152/16 152/18
173/20 174/5 174/11
174/15 174/21 174/25
175/5 175/10 175/16
175/21 176/7 176/18
176/21 177/9 177/11
177114
THE WITNESS: [2]
101/25 176/20
"24 [7] 5/16 49/21
50/11 58/18 80/6
86/17 96/9
"22 [1] 5/16
"23 [10] 18/22 25/2
35/8 53/18 53/19
53/21 59/13 72/22
73/15 96/18
"24 [12] 14/18 50/4
50/16 53/25 55/12
55/12 60/4 61/16
71/10 71/16 73/17
97/20
‘activists’ [1] 79/24
‘lessons [1] 14/2
‘part [1] 79/25
‘Remuneration [1]
145/2
"rightly [1] 40/13
‘the [1] 40/10
"thing’ [1] 113/2
"under [1] 125/5
‘untouchable' [1]
167/1
‘victim’ [4] 30/4 40/9
44/3 45/20
we Pt] 41/6
o
0.5 [1] 5/20
=
1 billion [2] 58/12
127/21
1 May [1] 84/17
1,000 [6] 89/19 95/8
95/9 95/11 95/11
97/23
4.50 [2] 102/1 102/10
4/6 [1] 24/3
10 [2] 12/1 119/25
10 February [1]
159/3
10 years [2] 71/25
72/3
10-year [1] 127/18
10.00 [3] 1/2 177/12
177/17
100 [3] 37/2 51/24
95/22
109 [1] 68/14
11,500 [6] 5/13 5/21
6/11 6/12 100/18
101/10
11.26 [1] 56/18
11.40 [2] 56/16 56/20
12 [4] 79/2
12 months [1] 155/9
12 October [2] 80/16
80/19
12.50 [4] 102/8
125 [1] 91/7
13 August [2] 11/18
120/16
13 June [1] 7/9
14 [1] 168/5
14 January [2]
164/16 164/24
14 June [2] 34/17
36/21
14 March [2] 119/5
119/14
15 [2] 47/12 115/2
15 August [1] 102/25
15 March [1] 121/18
15 years [1] 156/25
16 [1] 78/7
16 January [1] 141/1
17 [4] 153/1
17 January [1]
157/15
17 May [1] 29/3
18 [4] 79/2
18 per cent [1] 54/6
183 [1] 58/9
185 [1] 62/10
19 [6] 74/21 79/8
118/8 155/8 155/8
161/13
19 April [1] 149/21
1998 [1] 103/14
2
2 years [1] 162/1
2.4 [4] 17/5
20 March [1] 132/7
20 years [1] 156/25
200 [1] 97/22
200 million [1] 65/4
2014 [2] 103/20
153/4
2015 [1] 54/4
2018 [3] 2/16 3/2
33/22
2019 [4] 9/10 54/1
54/2 130/2
2021 [4] 11/18 104/7
112/10 120/16
2022 [4] 15/20 21/6
47/16 112/10
2023 [13] 5/4 7/8 7/9
7/15 65/25 80/16
80/19 91/8 118/10
122/5 134/25 140/24
175/20
2024 [14] 1/1 29/3
32/1 36/4 43/15 74/21
75/9 84/17 92/2 141/1
149/21 157/15 159/3
177/18
2030 [1] 64/23
207 [1] 3/10
21 [1] 7/15
23 [1] 35/3
23 July [1] 42/11
24 [2] 1/1 135/25
25 [1] 47/14
25 metres [1] 128/5
26 [1] 122/9
26 July [1] 45/9
26 September [1]
177/18
26 years [1] 122/9
28 May [1] 92/2
280 million [3] 58/11
58/17 58/19
29 [1] 103/5
31.3 [1] 57/9
31.4 [4] 57/10
31.5 [4] 57/13
31.6 [1] 57/16
31.7 [1] 57/19
34.8 million [1] 72/21
35 [2] 106/4 127/22
35 million [1] 72/16
39 [1] 114/19
4
4 January [2] 22/21
24/2
4 July [1] 5/3
4 June [2] 68/11 70/8
40 [1] 127/22
43 [2] 10/4 75/10
44 pages [1] 175/3
44-page [2] 126/15
129/22
45 [1] 113/12
5
5 April [3] 122/5
140/24 174/1
5 April 2023 [1]
134/25
5 per cent [1] 59/20
50 million [1] 71/18
50 per cent [1] 77/14
51 [1] 1/12
55 [1] 110/8
57 [1] 114/25
57 per cent [1] 89/23
6
6 April [1] 174/2
6 hours [1] 134/15
6 January [1] 24/4
6,500 [2] 100/20
101/9
65 per cent [1] 89/24
68 [1] 53/12
68 per cent [1] 89/23
7
7,000 [1] 101/19
70 per cent [1] 89/22
72 per cent [1]
114/22
3 75 [1] 53/12
3.00 [1] 152/20 8
3.15 [2] 152/17 a
452/22 8 February [1]
144/11
3.53 [1] 177/16
30 [1] 1390/4
30 January [1]
169/18
30 May [2] 32/1
34/16
30 million [1] 59/14
30 per cent [1] 54/2
31.1 [1] 57/4
31.2 [1] 57/7
8 July [2] 39/9 42/14
8 June 2023 [1] 7/8
811 pages [1] 10/11
9
9 March [1] 65/25
A
abandoned [1] 72/22
ability [3] 62/17
141/25 163/18
able [14] 4/19 10/19
21/15 22/13 42/23
43/15 45/15 51/5
81/16 85/24 105/4
125/15 131/4 140/14
ablution [1] 50/23
about [99] 1/9 3/12
3/13 6/22 8/1 8/19
11/8 11/23 15/1 15/4
15/25 16/2 16/15
18/18 18/19 20/2
24/13 27/20 30/12
31/16 31/18 32/3
32/11 32/13 36/7
36/22 37/11 37/11
37/19 41/19 41/22
43/5 43/24 44/10
48/15 52/6 52/10
52/18 55/10 55/23
56/1 60/14 61/9 64/17I
65/17 65/20 66/16
69/9 70/16 77/1 78/9
78/18 79/4 82/21 84/4I
85/2 85/15 85/20
85/21 85/24 88/19
89/11 91/3 91/18 94/3}
94/18 96/25 97/3 98/7
104/13 108/18 110/12)
110/17 111/8 112/2
113/9 114/14 118/15
121/7 121/7 130/6
132/4 135/12 139/4
139/6 140/11 146/14
148/14 149/8 150/20
156/18 160/9 160/14
165/16 165/17 165/23}
166/1 167/7 174/22
above [8] 17/9 41/12
42/4 86/6 125/8
156/20 164/1 164/18
absence [1] 176/22
absolutely [9] 9/24
102/5 109/19 115/21
116/12 118/19 136/25]
139/25 166/1
AC [4] 43/8 43/20
66/22 66/22
accept [3] 7/15 51/21
175/17
acceptance [1]
145/13
accepted [2] 112/23
112/25
access [10] 20/6
34/25 41/1 111/9
111/23 128/8 128/12
128/17 153/17 154/13)
accessed [1] 128/8
accompanied [2]
1/23 125/11
accordance [2]
19/25 80/15
(46) MR BLAKE: - accordanceO
A
account [17] 25/21
41/17 61/4 63/15
87/19 94/5 94/6
118/14 128/15 129/23
130/23 137/24 138/17)
138/20 140/15 141/3
141/18
accountability [7]
4/10 60/16 60/23
72/25 82/1 82/8 93/7
accountant [1] 140/3
accounting [3] 29/16
41/16 123/5
accounts [4] 30/19
41/4 122/14 138/14
accrued [1] 145/6
accuracy [1] 161/22
accurate [5] 44/5
113/14 114/1 134/2
134/11
accurately [1] 91/9
accusation [2]
132/10 132/12
accusations [2]
131/6 144/10
achievable [1] 152/3
achieve [1] 69/23
achieved [1] 176/3
acknowledge [1]
130/13
acknowledged [2]
21/25 44/4
acknowledges [1]
41/2
acronym [1] 123/3
across [9] 12/13
13/17 14/1 14/4 14/9
14/11 32/8 92/15
116/11
act [8] 16/9 17/13
29/13 30/8 70/11
107/22 115/19 151/3
acting [1] 42/10
action [5] 29/11 36/9
36/12 70/23 143/5
actions [3] 29/14
30/23 136/8
active [3] 2/23 3/17
95/16
actively [1] 108/5
activities [2] 32/14
33/5
activity [4] 45/22
123/23 162/17 173/1
actual [3] 18/15
18/21 128/9
actually [19] 2/25 3/4
9/14 18/25 24/3 37/19
60/1 62/25 63/1 85/21
100/16 127/6 129/6
148/19 164/14 164/23)
169/17 171/1 174/6
adapted [1] 147/22
add [4] 5/9 51/22
98/5 165/5
addition [2] 13/8
132/8
additional [6] 27/2
28/9 30/21 34/23 75/8)
110/22
Additionally [3] 7/12
85/13 128/7
address [16] 40/1
40/10 48/23 53/13
59/2 81/7 85/4 91/24
123/12 128/16 128/19)
130/15 145/5 146/2
148/19 152/23
addressed [11]
42/14 42/17 47/3 47/8)
62/7 76/13 100/8
104/15 130/21 173/7
173/8
addresses [8] 29/17
32/15 33/19 42/2 42/6)
44/3 45/7 79/9
addressing [4] 2/13
11/1 15/22 100/6
adjourned [1] 177/17
Adjournment [1]
102/9
adjustment [1] 139/2
adjustments [5]
137/21 137/21 138/5
138/6 138/17
admissibility [1]
40/11
adopt [2] 35/11 148/8
adopted [1] 12/9
advance [4] 24/11
28/19 133/7 133/25
advantage [1] 95/5
advantages [1] 66/23)
advert [2] 87/12
104/10
advice [4] 61/3
106/14 145/8 145/19
advise [1] 28/7
advised [8] 2/1 50/12
71/23 73/25 77/2 77/9)
86/18 134/11
advisement [1] 132/6
advising [3] 55/13
66/14 71/12
advisory [6] 92/13
92/24 94/21 95/15
98/25 135/12
advocate [1] 38/6
affect [1] 9/17
affected [2] 81/20
163/18
affecting [3] 2/14
79/23 141/24
afford [1] 63/14
after [21] 1/13 5/4 5/7)
5/25 6/15 11/18 21/9
27/13 41/24 53/6 82/16
83/8 92/9 95/2 109/8
118/13 126/10 142/16
149/21 166/13 170/16
afternoon [9] 102/3
102/11 102/13 102/19}
128/3 130/11 149/17
152/15 176/25
afterwards [1] 51/10
again [66] 3/17 9/7
17/1 20/8 20/14 20/15
23/16 28/3 31/13
39/17 46/6 54/9 55/16
59/11 60/15 63/3 63/5)
63/24 64/6 64/18
65/16 71/20 72/3
72/10 72/14 72/16
72/24 73/2 73/19
77/18 78/18 78/25
79/6 81/3 81/16 84/3
86/5 86/21 87/21 97/9
97/17 97/20 98/5 99/2
100/6 100/25 101/16
104/13 104/15 105/2
106/25 112/16 121/16
125/1 125/19 130/4
130/7 133/22 136/5
141/21 142/3 160/14
164/10 167/24 169/6
171/22
against [14] 18/10
29/10 29/13 29/15
32/19 39/21 42/21
54/18 74/25 90/20
110/11 110/23 113/7
132/15
agencies [3] 13/6
28/12 120/15
agenda [4] 78/2
110/16 116/5 170/14
agendas [1] 77/22
ago [4] 88/21 138/21
142/18 162/1
agree [15] 46/23
52/25 71/25 75/22
76/11 76/17 77/25
81/14 81/18 81/23
82/9 108/1 108/2
134/5 150/7
agreed [10] 35/14
36/20 36/20 53/4 55/5)
55/18 71/4 115/2
146/4 146/5
agreement [5] 38/21
103/20 134/1 134/7
139/18
Ah [1] 49/7
aide [1] 165/6
aim [1] 92/17
aims [1] 92/9
air [2] 72/23 140/5
air-conditioning [1]
72/23
alarm [1] 35/19
alert [1] 52/11
aligned [2] 107/24
141/8
all [72] 3/19 10/14
13/23 16/8 18/6 19/17,
23/19 25/6 25/14 26/4,
35/13 37/12 38/6 38/9)
38/24 39/7 41/12
48/25 52/22 52/24
55/18 66/9 72/11 76/9
77/23 82/6 83/2 83/16)
84/12 87/16 87/20
87/23 90/25 98/21
99/3 100/11 108/12
108/20 108/24 110/5
111/10 112/5 112/6
116/2 116/23 117/15
117/15 125/5 131/22
134/5 136/25 137/12
140/16 141/8 141/22
142/7 143/6 144/1
148/4 150/7 151/14
154/12 155/4 155/11
165/18 169/11 169/21
173/2 175/17 176/7
176/21 177/14
allegation [2] 123/21
132/15
allegations [3] 17/15
139/17 169/11
alleged [8] 29/16
38/8 38/9 38/10 38/15)
39/1 119/9 119/11
alleviate [1] 64/18
allow [4] 17/13 63/22
63/25 134/15
allowed [7] 20/19
20/21 31/13 85/20
94/15 115/17 125/23
alone [1] 128/3
along [4] 59/20 78/3
155/2 171/15
already [8] 34/13
49/15 52/14 63/2
76/13 104/21 111/5
172/7
also [52] 1/22 2/17
4/13 5/18 6/3 10/18
18/20 24/9 34/1 35/12,
36/18 41/2 41/15
45/11 49/12 51/5
51/13 52/21 54/16
56/5 58/23 61/12
64/24 72/10 74/12
74/13 78/22 80/24
84/4 92/3 94/6 94/7
97/19 101/13 101/14
104/8 110/25 111/17
114/14 115/21 116/3
116/19 123/13 126/7
141/3 145/17 150/18
150/21 153/19 155/13}
155/20 163/13
alternative [2] 44/19
134/4
Alternatively [1]
23/23
although [5] 63/23
66/9 70/9 104/20
106/9
always [3] 36/7
107/23 117/23
am [24] 1/2 24/7
26/12 29/7 33/12
38/24 39/13 45/5
48/20 56/18 56/20
89/8 119/6 121/20
129/1 131/4 131/25
133/8 133/25 135/4
141/5 144/19 174/16
177/17
Amanda [11] 14/20
53/24 53/25 54/10
54/21 55/1 55/13
55/14 78/22 78/24
111/5
Amanda's [1] 14/24
amazing [2] 135/6
173/10
Amazon [1] 72/19
ambition [1] 81/10
amongst [1] 90/8
amount [4] 40/19
91/2 127/23 131/9
amounts [2] 75/25
76/1
analyse [5] 57/12
126/22 153/11 154/25)
155/5
analysis [3] 13/11
74124 154/18
Andrew [5] 98/6
119/3 122/2 125/11
143/5
Andy [1] 59/22
Angela [1] 47/20
animals [1] 2/8
announcement [1]
7/2
annual [2] 3/1 111/8
another [14] 3/9 4/25
16/19 39/10 49/10
63/17 63/24 64/21
66/22 99/6 129/17
143/22 149/17 163/2
answer [5] 90/11
106/23 125/4 125/15
152/5
answering [2] 49/9
49/10
answers [3] 43/13
173/21 174/17
anticipate [1] 78/11
anticipated [1] 58/10
any [88] 2/12 2/13
9/11 9/17 11/3 11/23
15/15 18/16 18/19
20/2 22/17 26/4 26/5
(47) account - anyO
A
any... [75] 26/13 27/2
29/14 29/24 30/23
32/18 32/19 34/6
35/25 37/20 39/24
41/21 42/24 44/23
45/1 50/13 52/16 55/3
60/16 86/19 86/19
90/25 93/4 93/5 100/9
100/14 105/10 107/21
112/7 112/7 112/8
112/13 113/3 116/16
116/20 117/19 117/19}
118/23 119/15 122/25)
123/10 123/23 125/3
125/20 134/21 134/22
136/17 137/22 139/15}
141/6 146/12 148/10
148/14 148/20 148/20
148/21 151/2 156/18
156/20 157/13 158/3
158/19 161/24 163/7
163/10 165/23 167/20
167/21 171/2 171/13
171/18 173/6 173/7
173/18 176/22
anybody [2] 74/10
146/15
anyone [5] 107/11
115/25 134/18 146/23
164/8
anything [7] 82/12
112/17 116/14 143/14}
151/1 154/21 167/11
anyway [1] 138/11
anywhere [2] 61/22
113/4
apart [1] 5/8
apologetic [3] 166/15)
168/2 171/10
apologies [2] 7/15
141/10
apologise [2] 150/21
166/17
apology [3] 166/11
166/12 169/11
appalling [2] 31/12
39/15
appeal [1] 31/4
appears [4] 10/21
32/12 66/1 79/13
appetite [2] 16/4
65/14
application [2] 12/18
84/23
applied [3] 67/2
90/19 104/10
appointed [4] 47/20
77/16 114/25 116/22
appointing [1] 105/8
appointment [5]
11/19 68/19 70/11
106/3 117/3
appraise [3] 10/14
10/19 35/17
appreciate [3] 56/10
67/25 141/5
appreciated [1]
107/6
approach [18] 13/25
15/1 15/4 15/9 29/23
67/23 72/5 72/7 105/1
105/7 124/13 145/22
146/22 147/20
appropriate [11]
52/25 56/14 115/10
149/23 151/6 152/14
173/8
appropriately [2]
30/22 52/23
approval [3] 71/19
176/3 176/3
approved [1] 151/5
approximately [6]
65/4 89/19 97/22
100/20 101/19 115/2
April [14] 14/18
43/14 50/4 50/16
53/25 54/9 83/21
122/5 134/25 140/24
149/21 161/13 174/1
174/2
April '24 [1] 50/16
ARC [1] 70/21
archaic [1] 156/4
are [193]
Area [4] 1/24 6/3 6/8
14/6
areas [3] 81/7 121/15
125/7
Aren't [1] 46/6
arising [2] 14/3 73/11
armed [1] 135/17
arose [1] 137/14
around [13] 73/17
75/20 81/15 104/18
106/14 109/21 116/25)
135/8 141/8 149/10
167/9 167/20 168/11
arrange [1] 119/11
arranged [1] 121/8
arrangement [1]
146/4
article [2] 49/3 49/4
articles [1] 48/19
as [210]
ascertain [1] 41/16
ASDA [1] 97/16
Asian [1] 51/15
aside [1] 142/2
ask [20] 1/9 2/1 6/22
16/2 18/18 26/5 42/7
47/10 74/18 78/9
82/21 84/20 89/11
90/15 102/2 103/4
30/4 35/11 35/14 67/8)
19/24 27/15 28/1 31/5)
130/3 158/11 169/10
171/21
asked [13] 14/20
42/7 51/18 63/17
70/13 90/17 115/7
115/12 115/14 118/12
148/12 151/4 174/20
asking [3] 75/25
101/5 175/16
asks [2] 19/21 69/18
aspect [4] 31/9 77/13
113/5 149/9
aspects [1] 142/7
assess [1] 61/16
assessment [3] 12/3
61/19 75/4
assigned [3] 36/11
111/18 157/23
assist [18] 10/8
24/16 31/3 35/6 49/6
53/15 71/6 84/7 86/14
104/17 111/14 115/3
118/10 121/2 126/21
131/12 157/19 170/24
assistance [3] 26/4
41/14 144/15
assistant [1] 123/15
assisted [1] 33/7
assisting [2] 4/21
163/11
associated [1]
150/16
assume [8] 112/20
120/25 122/12 129/12
129/15 139/22 147/8
174/19
assumed [1] 138/23
assumption [1]
88/18
assurance [8] 14/1
94/10 137/4 138/2
138/13 138/23 144/13}
145/21
at [210]
ATM [1] 57/23
attached [2] 121/13
128/7
attachment [2] 7/1
36/18
attempt [1] 148/8
attempted [1] 147/7
attend [6] 2/25 45/15
51/6 112/7 125/3
159/10
attendance [2]
124/24 125/10
attended [5] 2/23
68/12 135/1 136/18
137/1
attention [5] 14/13
29/8 48/22 83/24
126/6
attest [1] 41/20
attesting [1] 40/17
attitude [1] 44/7
audience [2] 74/15
74/16
audio [2] 126/4 126/7
audit [11] 111/19
137/10 137/14 137/16}
138/5 174/2 174/8
174/8 174/21 176/13
176/16
auditors [1] 137/1
August [3] 11/18
102/25 120/16
authorised [1] 59/13
authority [1] 93/25
auto [1] 65/18
automation [4] 96/6
96/11 96/19 98/6
availability [2]
119/13 121/3
available [3] 121/8
131/21 154/13
average [1] 72/2
averse [2] 71/11
71/14
avoid [1] 72/3
avoidance [1] 132/10
avoids [1] 126/8
await [2] 132/5 141/2
awakening [1] 21/16
aware [59] 8/22 8/25
9/7 9/10 10/1 11/10
14/12 15/12 15/15
18/19 26/18 28/3
29/21 31/18 33/21
37/4 40/23 41/21 42/8
43/2 44/23 45/1 46/12)
53/23 60/19 61/10
61/24 62/4 68/16 79/5
90/1 90/7 90/12 99/14)
112/13 112/16 114/21
117/10 117/12 119/18}
121/23 124/1 126/1
144/13 144/23 145/14}
148/4 148/10 151/19
151/20 155/18 155/20)
158/3 163/25 164/2
165/12 166/3 168/2
168/18
awareness [3] 37/15
89/11 114/24
away [3] 3/24 7/25
18/7
awkward [1] 172/18
back [33] 2/5 9/4
11/6 26/22 35/15 46/6)
50/16 51/1 54/21 55/1
55/13 65/23 66/3
67/18 73/20 75/14
86/5 86/25 96/20
101/1 102/1 110/11
120/22 122/15 126/11
137/22 139/6 152/17
153/19 165/16 172/14I
173/22 174/20
backdoor [1] 139/8
background [10]
11/3 23/9 49/2 68/17
68/22 73/7 74/22
80/14 88/16 103/13
bad [2] 112/18 113/1
badly [1] 169/13
balance [4] 65/22
107/24 113/6 138/8
balances [2] 153/23
174/24
balancing [3] 64/16
107/22 115/19
bang [1] 22/9
bank [6] 1/11 1/15
1/25 3/6 104/8 127/7
banking [3] 77/13
77/16 88/22
Bartlett [16] 23/1
23/2 24/25 25/2 25/23}
26/17 26/21 40/8
40/12 121/12 121/18
121/20 121/23 132/13)
133/12 167/1
based [13] 23/20
31/8 35/21 38/19 41/5I
41/10 61/1 65/18
72/17 97/7 134/14
139/24 153/9
basic [1] 104/14
basically [8] 34/12
61/21 71/17 83/14
109/16 123/4 132/19
138/10
basis [6] 30/24
120/20 137/19 149/12!
159/6 159/20
Bates [4] 10/12 22/23
168/6 168/12
BD [2] 127/5 127/8
be [223]
bear [1] 135/23
became [3] 2/20
124/1 167/22
because [57] 4/15
5/18 10/1 15/2 15/12
17/2 31/20 40/1 40/2
47/9 50/8 59/14 60/19)
60/25 62/21 62/25
63/16 67/20 72/11
73/9 73/21 77/13 80/2
80/21 91/23 92/7 92/8)
93/1 93/17 95/1 99/16
101/11 107/25 109/19)
112/20 123/16 130/16
135/24 137/24 138/23)
139/22 142/2 143/17
151/6 153/25 155/18
155/20 156/25 158/5
159/17 160/14 162/10)
167/10 171/24 172/18)
174/17 175/25
(48) any... - becauseO
B
79/22 104/20
becomes [1] 147/5
been [169] 1/17 3/16
6/20 8/2 9/1 9/7 9/7
9/11 9/13 9/14 9/18
10/7 11/11 12/9 16/7
16/22 16/25 19/10
21/12 25/24 29/19
31/18 35/20 35/25
36/21 36/25 37/15
50/17 51/25 52/22
53/1 53/7 53/8 55/4
55/5 55/18 58/22
58/24 60/10 60/14
60/20 61/8 61/22
64/20 65/13 65/17
66/6 67/5 67/7 67/9
69/8 70/5 71/21 73/3
79/3 79/19 80/5 85/9
89/16 89/18 92/8
93/12 94/10 95/2
96/24 100/1 100/7
102/16 109/6 109/24
110/1 110/2 110/5
112/17 113/23 114/1
114/2 116/16 120/19
122/2 122/22 123/7
123/12 123/17 123/25)
124/13 125/2 131/4
131/10 131/21 131/24}
132/13 137/16 138/3
138/4 141/11 142/20
143/7 143/12 145/12
145/14 145/14 145/20)
145/23 146/1 146/4
148/5 148/14 148/23
149/2 149/2 149/3
149/4 149/8 155/2
158/22 158/25 158/25)
160/4 160/7 160/25
161/16 161/25 162/10}
162/12 162/22 163/4
164/15 166/10 168/8
169/2 169/3 169/4
169/24 170/2 170/8
171/10 171/12 172/7
172/24 175/6 175/17
177/4 177/6
before [28] 5/4 26/17
27/19 37/10 37/14
38/25 39/3 45/12
45/13 47/11 51/11
53/11 72/13 73/8
78/23 90/7 106/10
120/17 121/23 130/9
become [3] 29/21
4/22 5/4 5/8 5/25 6/16
38/8 40/6 40/23 41/10
41/25 43/15 47/2 47/2
ATIT 4719 47/15 48/19
73/10 75/3 77/16 78/4
85/15 88/9 89/8 89/15
148/17 149/16 151/1
169/17 171/1
began [2] 109/10
153/4
begin [5] 1/9 117/24
beginning [3] 10/10
69/12 157/5
begun [1] 126/14
behalf [2] 125/15
125/24
behave [1] 133/22
behaviour [4] 30/2
30/21 45/25 160/7
behavioural [1] 31/9
behaviours [1] 45/18
behind [4] 58/14
61/21 126/1 171/20
33/23 36/14 36/15
37/5 40/4 41/7 43/18
47/16 50/9 53/16
53/23 54/13 55/21
55/21 57/15 59/8
61/24 64/12 66/10
70/2 72/17 72/19
73/22 75/23 75/25
76/1 82/19 84/13
85/14 85/24 86/13
86/15 89/2 90/10
90/17 91/3 94/18 97/9
97/24 101/2 106/25
109/9 112/20 114/24
115/20 120/3 132/10
132/15 133/18 135/12)
136/9 136/14 139/12
140/3 140/15 143/14
151/4 153/19 156/10
160/19 162/14 163/25)
165/16 165/18 167/10)
168/1 168/2 176/8
176/9
Belfast [2] 72/14
72/23
belief [2] 103/9 142/1
believe [17] 31/11
48/22 55/3 110/6
117/15 117/17 124/7
139/5 150/1 150/5
151/21 152/11 158/5
158/20 161/6 162/15
163/3
believed [1] 151/3
bells [1] 35/19
below [5] 26/23 49/6
128/20 141/16 170/13)
Ben [13] 74/13
118/15 118/16 120/25)
121/2 121/7 123/17
142/23 146/17 166/5
167/1 173/1 173/3
131/16 131/18 136/24,
126/15 140/17 140/18)
being [79] 7/20 11/20
16/9 17/22 17/23 19/2
20/12 27/5 27/21 28/9)
benchmarking [1]
15/8
best [12] 18/5 46/14
47/8 91/21 103/8
124/18 126/7 134/5
173/12
better [21] 11/11
23/17 24/8 36/8 59/6
62/18 62/18 62/19
62/25 86/25 88/6
93/16 96/12 96/13
97/10 99/10 112/1
144/6 157/7 162/18
175/10
better-informed [1]
62/18
better-trained [1]
62/18
between [27] 25/11
28/25 36/22 39/24
46/11 46/22 47/4
53/18 55/21 70/21
79/12 81/12 115/19
117/8 122/10 123/23
147/23 150/22 151/11
151/22 159/24 163/4
174/8 175/17
beyond [8] 7/7 8/11
18/4 48/5 118/1 142/1
157/2 165/9
bickering [2] 169/14
171/22
big [6] 68/1 68/2 68/3
70/17 127/16 147/24
bigger [1] 127/10
gest [1] 47/5
billion [2] 58/12
127/21
Birch [3] 11/15
119/23 148/3
bit [16] 8/17 11/5
19/1 23/9 46/7 47/17
67/12 70/6 71/8 85/2
93/12 104/13 107/14
110/12 147/17 172/17]
bizarre [1] 129/8
BLAKE [9] 1/4 37/10
100/13 102/12 102/21
176/21 177/9 178/4
178/12
blanket [1] 161/6
blend [1] 113/14
blocked [1] 80/5
board [182]
Board's [2] 74/24
75/18
boat [1] 169/22
body [4] 32/20 94/23
95/17 108/9
bold [1] 13/19
bonus [7] 53/18
53/20 54/7 73/10
134/10 135/17 140/19
124/22 141/16 146/12
111/8 1114/9 112/11
bonuses [6] 53/12
53/14 54/13 55/3
55/17 113/9
book [2] 109/12
127/10
Borkett [2] 77/3
77/16
both [26] 17/17 28/7
31/11 39/13 44/4
85/15 86/18 101/23
104/19 104/22 107/3
108/5 109/13 110/21
116/24 125/6 129/14
169/3 171/25
bottom [13] 11/1
12/22 16/2 22/22
22/25 42/17 83/21
84/17 119/2 120/1
122/22 126/13 172/21
Bradford [1] 1/23
branch [38] 1/11 3/9
3/9 3/11 3/14 3/18
5/24 8/6 8/11 9/25
29/22 33/6 41/1 41/4
41/17 46/17 56/24
57/15 58/2 63/16
94/10 95/7 121/13
126/16 129/24 137/2
137/11 137/18 137/19}
137/25 138/9 138/24
138/25 153/21 154/16
154/19 156/13 157/7
Branch's [1] 19/23
branches [32] 1/10
1/13 1/14 1/21 5/14
6/9 6/10 6/12 90/4
97/17 100/18 100/23
101/10 101/11 101/14}
104/2 105/13 105/14
122/3 127/20 130/21
137/3 137/10 137/16
139/3 139/23 146/3
154/7 154/11 155/19
161/2 173/23
Brander [3] 8/22 8/25)
9/9
Brander's [1] 8/23
breach [1] 166/23
breadth [1] 117/16
break [10] 47/11
47/12 53/11 56/15
56/19 60/8 84/9
149/17 152/15 152/21
breakdown [2] 46/22
47/7
breath [1] 140/5
Brent [1] 3/15
Brian [1] 71/23
brief [1] 71/7
briefing [3] 115/8
116/17 166/21
46/15 50/8 50/12 83/2
142/14 147/17 164/20)
briefings [1] 114/6
briefly [12] 10/7
33/20 61/13 62/13
63/9 73/6 81/2 86/14
123/21 124/5 153/6
174/6
brilliantly [1] 71/22
bring [18] 56/24
62/10 83/15 83/24
86/25 87/8 87/9 91/16}
92/15 107/5 107/5
107/6 107/16 114/18
119/23 125/22 152/25)
156/6
bringing [3] 56/1
108/6 108/16
brings [3] 91/24 95/5
168/19
brink [1] 150/20
broad [1] 139/18
broadcast [1] 168/6
broader [1] 26/2
Brocklesby [3] 58/8
59/21 65/16
broke [1] 90/13
broken [3] 126/16
129/24 169/13
broker [1] 171/11
brother [1] 135/22
brought [9] 14/12
15/7 16/20 17/2 48/22I
96/18 97/20 110/22
148/7
budget [2] 58/10 59/4)
bugs [7] 40/24 61/13
61/24 62/4 90/24 91/1
91/2
build [3] 162/13
162/13 163/13
building [3] 23/16
86/6 163/11
built [2] 87/17 157/1
bullet [6] 10/25 15/16
16/2 71/3 78/9 79/10
bundle [6] 11/21
17/24 28/4 44/15
82/17 107/9
bureaucratic [1]
177/12
Burnley [1] 63/11
Burton [7] 14/20
53/24 54/10 55/14
78/23 78/24 111/5
business [96] 2/20
2/21 3/20 3/25 4/22
5/10 6/22 8/19 9/12
9/13 10/17 12/6 12/10
12/12 14/1 14/6 19/8
19/14 20/23 23/17
28/1 32/8 44/25 45/22
48/20 51/7 51/10
52/16 53/6 54/8 55/3
56/3 56/6 58/6 59/3
59/21 60/20 63/20
(49) become - businessO
B
business... [58] 64/6
64/7 67/10 68/25
69/13 70/3 72/15
73/10 76/25 77/1
77/15 80/7 80/25 82/3,
83/16 87/19 91/20
91/23 94/18 96/10
103/17 103/17 105/12)
106/2 108/20 113/5
113/11 117/22 118/5
122/9 122/18 125/20
127/16 127/17 135/5
135/19 136/5 136/17
140/6 141/23 142/6
144/8 144/9 147/8
154/25 155/4 155/16
156/12 156/22 156/25
158/14 159/16 159/19
160/6 161/18 163/7
163/16 175/7
businesses [6] 54/4
67/22 106/10 133/22
150/23 151/16
businesspeople [2]
140/10 175/18
but [127] 3/6 8/18 9/7
10/15 11/11 11/21
15/11 17/24 19/3 19/7)
20/12 22/11 24/3 26/2
31/22 31/25 34/11
35/25 37/3 37/6 38/7
38/18 38/21 47/12
51/12 53/5 53/6 56/10
58/22 62/11 64/24
65/19 72/2 72/10 74/2
78/24 80/24 83/17
87/6 87/21 92/23
95/25 98/1 99/7 99/23,
100/24 101/10 101/13)
102/12 104/5 104/14
105/10 106/13 107/8
107/25 108/1 108/3
108/16 108/18 109/7
110/11 110/18 110/24
111/3 111/10 112/21
112/25 113/8 113/22
114/23 116/1 116/2
117/2 118/1 118/6
119/22 121/16 123/4
124/3 124/14 124/18
134/23 135/23 138/15
139/13 139/18 140/5
144/2 148/18 149/4
149/14 150/17 150/21
151/18 152/10 153/19
154/11 154/16 154/24}
156/10 157/5 157/7
157/12 160/18 160/24
161/7 161/23 162/2
162/7 162/18 163/12
165/18 167/19 168/9
169/23 171/13 172/2
172/7 173/2 173/11
173/14 173/21 174/20)
175/12 175/13 176/3
177/11
button [1] 95/10
buttons [1] 95/12
buying [1] 60/13
c
call [18] 49/7 52/25
83/8 87/11 92/25
93/25 118/9 118/12
130/8 137/4 147/25
148/1 166/14 166/16
167/2 171/6 171/7
174/1
called [14] 3/15 4/17
5/11 8/22 35/23 68/9
68/16 73/5 92/13
103/14 136/11 138/3
154/16 168/10
calling [4] 56/8 56/11
74/10 131/24
calls [2] 49/10
131/22
Calum [1] 117/25
came [13] 4/11 5/15
15/5 21/18 90/7 97/1
112/2 120/18 123/18
138/2 140/2 167/19
169/24
Cameron [1] 66/22
campaign [1] 84/21
can [188]
can't [12] 2/25 63/7
63/13 72/19 77/5
93/18 99/16 105/22
117/24 125/20 135/8
154/17
cancelled [2] 4/1 4/4
candour [2] 97/3
97/5
cannot [3] 42/4 128/7
154/7
capabilities [1]
172/16
capability [3] 62/17
163/13 163/15
capable [3] 87/19
135/6 156/24
capacity [3] 78/8
81/19 144/25
captures [1] 92/8
card [2] 64/9 64/9
care [1] 163/25
careers [1] 172/1
carefully [3] 38/15
41/13 161/22
carried [6] 68/15
79/16 118/4 145/23
147/1 148/15
carry [3] 68/24 123/8
167/18
carrying [1] 131/7
case [19] 4/8 14/11
18/9 18/24 27/6 27/9
27/21 30/7 33/4 33/15)
35/15 42/22 46/18
109/15 109/15 142/19}
146/25 150/2 174/19
cases [4] 10/12
12/19 32/23 149/3
cash [3] 41/5 51/19
51/23
Castleton [1] 10/13
category [1] 160/20
cater [2] 50/22 57/9
caught [1] 108/15
cause [2] 138/7
150/9
caused [5] 107/21
122/24 131/10 131/18
171/16
causes [2] 148/20
148/24
caution’ [1] 125/5
cc'd [1] 37/6
CCTV [1] 51/24
ceased [1] 7/14
cent [13] 37/2 54/2
54/5 54/6 59/20 77/14
89/22 89/23 89/23
89/24 95/22 114/22
154/4
central [14] 12/8 13/8}
16/1 19/21 23/3 32/10
34/1 43/9 55/10 119/7,
121/21 138/20 146/2
154/13
centre [7] 1/21 2/18
49/8 51/19 51/23
72/23 110/17
centred [1] 144/24
centric [2] 6/25
110/15
CEO [16] 14/19 15/1
21/23 29/1 29/2 34/10
42/10 45/17 45/17
77/2 7719 93/19
151/15 163/11 165/12)
173/3
CEOs [3] 36/22
150/22 152/9
certain [22] 34/10
45/18 48/4 54/1 62/7
67/7 73/22 74/1 74/8
79/15 87/11 95/6
106/15 113/7 113/25
116/3 116/4 116/5
124/21 138/24 165/22
168/25
certainly [10] 31/22
37/13 50/14 61/8
77/11 90/12 107/18
135/13 136/16 152/16
cetera [4] 61/18 75/1
100/23 160/1
chain [3] 40/6 119/22
121/16
chained [1] 82/6
chair [21] 34/15 37/8
61/20 66/5 70/9 70/11
70/23 74/13 79/1 92/6
99/20 99/23 99/24
111/22 111/25 112/4
118/9 158/11 172/13
172/25 172/25
Chair's [1] 99/22
chairing [1] 77/22
Chairman [1] 141/14
challenge [12] 5/17
15/12 20/12 21/1
69/15 94/1 98/16
105/23 105/24 107/5
139/15 147/24
challenged [8] 51/1
51/18 53/24 55/13
60/4 73/20 94/4
137/22
challenges [3] 25/24
69/2 69/3
challenging [1] 169/4I
chance [1] 139/15
change [14] 32/8
44/6 44/23 45/6 46/5
66/25 98/21 110/1
116/6 138/8 147/18
159/14 163/12 163/19
changed [6] 3/4
30/21 51/9 109/24
116/15 140/1
changes [9] 32/12
66/24 74/6 74/10
137/24 137/25 139/11
145/21 172/22
changing [2] 6/23
139/9
charge [1] 27/12
chat [3] 83/5 118/15
123/19
cheap [1] 58/20
cheaper [1] 66/24
check [2] 35/18
100/9
checking [3] 36/10
138/14 150/4
checks [1] 153/21
cherrypicking [2]
91/15 91/19
Chesterfield [8] 23/7
23/10 23/20 23/21
24/10 139/25 140/7
174/9
Chief [13] 47/21
48/12 48/13 92/10
93/19 93/19 98/12
107/3 125/21 162/11
162/17 163/16 166/3
children [2] 21/21
21/22
choice [1] 62/24
choose [2] 38/15
125/4
chose [2] 125/3
135/22
Chris [3] 58/8 59/21
65/16
Cl [3] 144/20 145/16
146/5
circle [1] 80/9
circular [1] 104/11
circumspect [1]
30/22
circumstances [4]
45/3 138/21 150/10
176/14
City [12] 26/6 26/11
26/22 26/25 27/1
27/16 27/18 29/22
150/1 150/6 150/8
1651/2
civil [8] 13/2 13/4
29/15 33/21 33/23
119/19 120/11 120/13)
claim [1] 51/24
claimed [1] 51/18
claiming [1] 138/19
claims [2] 51/20
141/19
clarify [2] 9/4 164/14
clarifying [1] 35/5
clarity [2] 75/17 98/4
classic [1] 64/21
classified [1] 164/9
clear [23] 13/22 22/6
29/12 37/11 45/5
45/19 60/11 62/18
69/1 76/23 92/14
96/10 96/19 98/8 99/4
99/4 117/17 132/17
133/19 149/14 150/17)
165/14 173/12
clearer [1] 93/13
clearly [14] 34/8
49/19 53/17 53/17
54/6 67/7 93/3 135/11
147/21 148/2 150/16
160/17 160/21 167/21
CLEP [1] 19/25
clerk [3] 63/1 63/1
65/8
close [4] 2/17 7/7
8/11 146/5
closed [14] 35/20
36/2 36/3 36/10 36/12
36/14 36/15 140/23
142/12 144/20 144/22)
146/7 160/4 175/15
closer [1] 83/16
cloud [1] 72/17
clunky [1] 67/25
co [2] 97/16 137/6
Co-Operative [1]
97/16
Code [1] 75/1
codes [2] 52/7 96/15
(60) business... - codesO
Cc
cohesive [1] 81/9
coincidence [1] 37/3
collaborative [1]
169/18
collate [1] 130/3
collated [2] 75/3
129/11
colleague [2] 51/15
125/13
colleagues [1] 143/5
Collect [4] 5/11 5/15
6/5 8/13,
come [21] 11/13
28/20 29/8 34/19
35/15 58/1 65/6 82/20
92/1 94/4 102/1
106/25 114/5 117/14
130/16 134/25 149/13
151/5 152/17 168/17
176/16
comes [6] 15/2 27/24
55/22 65/23 95/7 95/8
comfortable [1] 64/8
coming [5] 5/23
42/15 110/13 110/23
146/11
command [2] 77/3
153/9
commence [1] 141/6
comment [1] 2/9
commentary [1]
129/25
commented [1]
108/21
comments [4] 107/1
107/9 165/17 169/25
commercial [4]
45/23 72/1 72/6 140/4
commercials [2]
10/14 61/16
commissioned [4]
58/2 73/8 80/19 80/25)
commit [1] 21/22
commitment [1]
39/13
committed [2] 31/11
38/8
committee [31]
76/10 79/3 92/13
92/13 92/14 93/6
93/11 93/14 93/17
93/21 94/21 95/15
98/20 98/23 98/25
108/9 111/2 111/19
111/20 111/20 111/23
111/24 112/5 112/7
112/19 113/3 157/23
158/15 158/16 158/17
168/11
committees [6] 75/5
110/8 110/10 111/18
111/21 111/22
common [4] 6/5 51/8
72/6 75/3
comms [2] 83/3
85/12
communicate [3]
50/12 115/6 117/1
communicated [2]
112/17 158/4
communicating [4]
26/11 114/17 116/8
156/2
communication [17]
6/17 7/2 7/23 8/20
8/21 9/11 42/8 54/9
80/6 83/14 86/19
112/3 116/19 123/10
151/22 160/3 160/15
communications [10]
26/12 45/5 115/8
115/15 116/7 116/23
130/18 131/6 131/25
135/14
community [5] 79/23
83/19 92/16 109/10
117/17
compact [1] 161/16
companies [2] 47/4
124/14
companion [1]
125/14
company [16] 45/23
48/17 48/24 68/16
70/18 74/3 103/14
124/9 124/15 125/21
143/20 145/6 146/16
155/22 168/13 175/24)
compare [1] 136/5
compared [1] 68/4
comparison [1]
97/21
compensation [1]
34/2
complained [1] 51/15]
complaint [1] 170/6
complaints [1] 54/18
complete [1] 114/7
completed [4] 7/17
124/11 124/17 155/19)
completely [4] 37/18
46/3 142/15 160/25
completion [1] 145/9
complex [5] 20/11
57/8 63/2 106/10
144/13
compliance [3] 73/13)
121/21 144/3
compliancy [1] 62/23
comply [1] 5/13
composition [1] 78/8
comprehensive [2]
13/11 68/25
compromises [1]
56/9
computer [3] 49/3
49/4 156/24
concern [15] 34/19
35/7 37/4 82/13 83/10
84/7 85/20 85/24
86/13 118/23 142/4
142/10 143/25 154/3
159/8
concerned [7] 30/2
48/21 129/5 134/5
135/18 135/19 169/25
concerning [4] 2/15
32/3 52/19 61/5
concerns [11] 14/18
29/8 45/17 48/15
63/24 133/13 136/20
153/25 156/18 156/20}
158/18
concluded [2] 75/8
89/8
conclusion [1] 95/24
conclusions [1]
152/10
conditioning [1]
72/23
conditions [3] 5/19
5/19 68/18
conduct [8] 14/7 16/6
19/22 20/12 70/24
119/8 124/20 139/7
conducted [7] 13/16
70/5 95/20 97/18
121/11 136/14 144/14
conducting [1] 16/16
conducts [1] 100/25
confidence [3] 50/14
95/1 115/22
confidential [2]
166/21 171/8
confidentiality [1]
115/20
confines [1] 156/8
confirm [7] 97/13
103/5 103/8 121/6
128/16 146/6 177/5
confirmation [1]
141/3
confirmations [1]
34/4
confirmed [5] 14/25
33/12 36/14 51/4
165/3
confirming [2]
142/12 166/10
conflict [8] 55/22
56/1 56/10 81/15
112/21 113/7 113/8
123/20
conflicted [2] 158/6
167/22
conflicts [3] 106/15
132/19 132/20
confrontational [1]
147/21
connect [2] 93/16
109/10
connected [2] 55/7
123/23
connection [4] 49/25
89/23 119/11 121/6
conscious [3] 104/19
113/25 165/19
consider [9] 39/25
40/2 60/23 64/13 65/1
149/23 155/14 162/8
173/8
considerable [1]
80/20
considerably [1]
134/14
consideration [6]
12/25 13/4 13/5 120/9}
120/13 120/14
considered [3] 18/8
45/22 106/5
considers [3] 26/13
41/12 41/24
consistency [3]
12/14 90/19 163/8
consistent [4] 13/22
13/23 13/25 14/10
consistently [1]
13/16
constantly [1] 72/18
constituency [1]
88/22
constitution [1]
158/1
consulted [2] 31/16
31/18
consuming [2] 134/3
134/10
contact [6] 26/23
27/2 27/11 118/21
122/14 129/3
contacted [4] 6/3
131/25 137/16 140/19)
contacting [1]
149/24
contain [1] 129/16
contains [1] 126/19
contemporaneous
[2] 134/9 134/12
content [3] 33/17
39/23 166/7
contents [2] 11/24
37/20
context [8] 11/5 26/2
67/12 74/18 131/14
135/4 150/19 171/13
continually [3] 63/4
80/6 87/1
continuation [1] 86/8
continue [2] 40/24
163/15
continued [4] 1/3 1/4
178/2 178/4
continues [6] 28/5
29/9 40/8 45/19 126/3
126/25
continuing [3] 30/18
122/25 132/3
continuity [5] 81/1
85/16 98/20 99/16
163/15
continuous [3] 14/3
143/13 162/19
contract [4] 4/1 4/4
31/24 163/2
contracted [1]
117/11
contracts [3] 55/5
71/25 144/3
contractual [2] 12/24
120/8
contrary [1] 22/17
contributing [1]
79/24
control [5] 7/7 8/12
19/14 34/9 54/23
controls [1] 65/22
conversation [33]
1/25 4/15 6/1 23/16
27/4 27/4 27/17 43/16I
43/18 47/23 47/25
48/1 53/4 59/25 59/25)
61/15 65/15 71/13
84/12 87/4 88/20
88/22 97/2 118/11
134/3 136/6 140/6
150/22 164/13 164/24)
165/15 165/18 169/19)
conversations [10]
3/21 4/12 4/13 21/13
26/5 47/22 50/19 51/3I
71/24 73/22
convicted [1] 11/2
convictions [1] 31/4
cooperate [2] 29/23
33/13
cooperation [1]
146/9
cooperative [1]
117/13
copied [4] 5/5 92/3
162/16 169/12
copy [7] 11/20 126/9
128/9 128/16 130/11
134/6 151/19
core [2] 69/5 173/17
corporate [14] 75/1
78/12 78/25 79/7
85/17 87/17 98/11
99/8 99/12 104/18
104/23 105/3 110/4
145/18
correct [22] 34/21
35/2 37/17 38/18
51/24 65/18 69/10
75/13 76/12 78/1 90/5I
91/10 94/5 103/18
104/3 104/7 104/8
105/16 124/13 138/12!
(61) cohesive - correctO
Cc
correct... [2] 145/15
153/12
correction [3] 51/17
51/21 127/3
corrections [2] 130/1
130/2
correctly [1] 56/4
correspondence [33]
5/2 7/20 7/24 8/1 8/8
8/13 21/2 25/8 25/11
28/25 29/19 34/16
36/22 39/9 44/4 44/18
44/22 45/24 46/21
47/2 48/7 80/3 126/12
132/3 133/7 133/16
140/22 141/16 149/19}
151/11 151/19 152/6
159/1
corroborate [1]
36/19
CoSec [2] 36/1
134/21
cost [2] 14/22 58/15
costings [1] 58/20
costs [5] 54/5 55/10
64/8 64/11 96/11
could [50] 1/19 4/21
13/1 17/4 17/5 25/9
25/10 27/6 35/17
37/21 39/16 41/3
41/25 42/11 43/21
56/24 65/24 66/1 67/2
70/7 79/8 82/22 84/16
91/25 111/4 112/7
114/17 115/9 118/15
120/10 120/21 120/22)
123/19 128/3 128/4
129/9 135/17 135/22
137/23 139/16 140/11
152/25 156/11 158/5
159/17 167/17 167/18}
171/1 171/11 173/22
couldn't [4] 15/12
61/11 128/12 167/10
council [3] 92/25
95/14 110/20
count [1] 162/11
counter [3] 63/1 65/7
95/8
counterpart [1]
25/22
counterproposals [1]
55/11
country [2] 23/20
46/20
couple [5] 7/3 54/5
120/16 161/15 163/20)
course [7] 21/3 56/16I
83/7 113/23 114/16
125/3 134/2
court [1] 109/15
court's [1] 32/9
courtesy [1] 133/9
cover [3] 121/15
133/11 162/25
covered [1] 111/11
covers [1] 111/16
Covid [1] 117/25
CPS [1] 44/19
create [2] 41/3
117/14
created [1] 35/20
creating [3] 4/24
72/7 159/23
creation [1] 108/9
credit [1] 4/14
crime [2] 38/8 39/1
criminal [21] 13/2
13/4 16/11 19/22
22/19 25/9 28/11
29/15 29/18 32/16
32/24 33/5 39/21
40/19 42/1 42/21
119/18 120/11 120/13)
149/20 151/3
criminality [3] 16/7
16/17 147/6
criteria [8] 6/11 87/8
87/11 104/16 104/17
105/9 105/15 105/17
critical [3] 73/21 74/3
74/5
criticisms [2] 30/9
30/22
cross [1] 90/20
cross-reference [1]
90/20
crossovers [1]
146/12
Crown [2] 33/1 43/1
Crowthorne [2] 7/13
7/18
culpability [2] 18/5
18/15
cultural [10] 4/6 4/8
21/15 31/9 32/8 44/23
45/6 45/20 47/10
147/15
culture [14] 1/9 6/24
32/14 53/17 54/7 54/8)
56/8 78/2 79/9 82/8
159/14 159/23 162/13)
163/12
curiosity [1] 173/20
currency [1] 57/15
current [15] 11/17
12/3 32/14 57/3 58/25)
61/20 63/21 88/25
89/20 90/22 90/24
112/3 161/17 162/17
164/6
currently [18] 7/18
12/23 33/23 34/3
40/25 62/14 63/10
64/4 65/13 68/1 70/18
71/8 81/20 93/21
96/14 120/7 149/14
160/7
cursory [1] 10/6
customer [25] 5/23
6/19 7/5 7/25 57/21
62/12 62/14 62/15
62/19 62/20 62/24
62/25 63/19 65/6
65/11 65/12 66/15
66/19 66/21 67/1 95/7
95/10 96/12 97/1
122/11
customer-facing [5]
62/12 66/15 66/19
66/21 67/1
customers [7] 8/1
8/16 8/18 11/9 63/15
63/18 67/22
cut [1] 116/11
cutting [1] 55/10
D
daft [1] 157/22
daily [2] 57/11
159/20
damaged [1] 170/2
damning [1] 172/16
Daniel [1] 25/20
Darfoor [1] 98/6
data [47] 4/2 10/14
12/21 20/9 20/10
20/11 28/9 28/16 30/6
30/20 30/24 33/8
33/11 33/22 34/1
40/15 41/6 42/3 43/7
72/23 90/20 94/14
111/23 113/15 113/15
114/7 114/13 126/17
126/23 127/15 127/19!
127/23 129/7 129/12
129/16 131/8 135/7
137/22 139/15 140/12
151/9 153/12 154/8
154/10 154/12 154/17)
154/18
Datchet [2] 7/12 7/17
date [7] 84/3 126/18
129/24 161/7 161/24
164/14 164/23
dated [8] 11/18 74/21
80/15 92/2 102/25
120/16 121/18 157/15}
dates [5] 24/11 37/2
51/9 77/5 119/13
Davies [5] 48/10
52/20 53/6 78/25
167/15
Davies' [1] 48/10
day [21] 2/22 2/25
4/16 5/16 8/1 8/1
10/14 22/24 28/9
32/14 36/1 131/23
137/1 137/19 137/19
138/13 153/22 167/19}
167/19 169/17 176/16
days [8] 4/1 23/21
49/22 154/14 159/11
161/15 168/5 169/16
deal [12] 19/17 58/23
59/19 73/1 131/25
147/4 159/1 159/17
159/20 167/10 172/4
17713
dealing [2] 10/7
167/19
dealt [4] 52/23 72/13
157/10 175/4
Dear [3] 7/5 142/14
164/20
death [1] 21/23
debate [2] 76/9 78/16
debating [1] 108/4
debt [1] 145/5
decade [1] 157/2
decent [1] 105/4
decentralised [1]
12/5
decide [2] 59/12
130/7
decided [3] 105/9
129/5 150/2
decision [15] 35/22
59/15 60/13 60/16
60/17 60/25 71/15
79/16 81/25 82/4
84/23 93/5 105/2
112/4 161/23
decision-making [1]
79/
decisions [6] 61/23
62/5 65/17 76/7 93/2
160/11
decks [4] 10/9 10/11
10/12 34/13
declaration [3]
123/23 145/9 145/20
declarations [2]
124/5 145/2
declare [2] 124/13
132/24
declared [1] 145/12
dedicated [1] 27/14
deemed [1] 42/25
deep [1] 48/15
deeper [1] 168/23
deeply [1] 48/18
defects [1] 40/24
defend [1] 20/14
defending [1] 20/23
defined [1] 160/17
definitely [9] 9/20
22/12 22/14 31/25
36/3 67/23 87/6
135/15 165/1
delay [4] 66/25
129/16 156/20 175/21
delayed [1] 154/14
delays [1] 69/6
deliberately [1] 91/11
deliver [2] 163/12
163/12
delivered [2] 22/8
59/16
delivering [2] 34/3
113/10
delivery [1] 41/8
demographic [1]
49/24
demonstrate [1]
18/14
demonstration [1]
66/8
depart [1] 104/22
department [11]
122/14 129/18 137/17)
140/2 140/17 140/18
142/5 143/19 144/21
147/20 160/25
departments [1]
131/22
dependent [1] 62/15
depending [2] 62/16
154/15
depends [2] 2/3 70/4
deposit [4] 95/8 95/8
95/10 127/7
deposited [1] 95/11
depth [3] 109/5
148/10 148/21
describe [3] 44/17
46/11 135/1
described [2] 3/10
44/24
describing [2] 155/3
175/6
description [4] 44/6
133/2 157/8 166/25
descriptive [1]
108/16
design [2] 64/21 81/8
designed [2] 160/18
165/6
designing [1] 57/9
desire [1] 98/16
desired [1] 85/11
desperately [1]
104/24
despite [4] 47/16
51/24 85/12 114/24
detail [12] 47/17
90/25 91/2 113/24
118/23 121/14 127/1
131/1 133/12 136/20
157/10 165/5
detailed [3] 101/22
118/5 131/7
details [2] 27/11
27/16
detected [1] 130/17
determine [2] 18/15
33/17
determining [2]
(52)
correct... - determiningO
D
determining... [2]
17/14 18/5
deterrent [1] 16/9
develop [2] 12/7 69/1
development [1]
66/8
deviating [1] 49/19
devil's [1] 38/6
devote [1] 106/1
dictating [1] 136/10
did [61] 2/20 3/5 5/10
10/17 11/2 15/9 19/5
21/1 22/5 22/11 24/13
34/7 36/18 44/10 51/8
55/11 59/19 60/14
63/4 63/23 66/2 66/25
78/11 81/3 88/20
89/15 92/5 98/8 100/4
101/3 109/4 109/16
109/21 109/22 112/13)
118/18 118/20 118/23
122/7 122/18 124/17
124/18 131/17 132/14}
135/23 137/6 137/8
139/1 139/2 139/11
139/16 140/18 144/16
144/25 145/4 163/1
166/5 167/3 171/3
174/17 174/18
didn't [22] 2/12 6/2
6/4 31/25 48/2 101/3
104/16 106/13 108/7
109/11 116/13 135/13
135/15 139/14 140/17)
148/19 158/2 160/5
166/16 171/13 171/18)
175/25
die [1] 86/3
died [1] 3/19
difference [5] 3/3 3/8
100/22 107/7 169/2
different [28] 1/10
1/21 8/14 15/4 58/16
59/24 64/17 64/20
87/13 94/22 104/25
105/19 108/1 111/21
118/7 129/3 136/17
139/4 149/14 150/3
152/24 154/11 157/25)
160/3 160/25 161/4
164/4 175/1
differently [5] 3/5
14/16 14/18 170/5
170/10
difficult [15] 4/3 4/5
20/10 20/15 63/13
71/15 75/23 76/1 82/5
93/2 107/22 153/11
162/10 167/22 172/19
difficulties [3] 61/6
94/13 111/14
digging [2] 111/10
148/19
digital [2] 98/7 98/8
Diligent [3] 34/23
34/25 111/13
direct [1] 124/12
directing [1] 129/3
direction [2] 81/10
89/5
directly [8] 29/7
115/6 146/1 146/17
158/4 160/24 161/1
161/4
director [25] 11/19
25/16 36/9 56/2 78/13
78/20 82/25 84/21
104/6 104/9 114/22
115/20 124/1 124/2
124/8 124/14 131/14
140/7 143/5 145/1
146/2 157/21 158/9
165/10 167/5
Director-only [1]
167/5
directors [15] 76/9
79/14 79/15 79/21
83/23 84/6 106/7
110/10 111/14 142/17
142/22 143/7 145/2
145/19 146/15
Directors’ [1] 124/4
disagreed [1] 114/25
disappointed [5]
6/15 15/2 55/15 79/4
107/17
disappointing [13]
2/12 14/25 21/23
28/24 30/14 34/7
38/23 64/13 72/24
82/15 87/15 98/9
99/16
disappointment [1]
84/2
disaster [1] 72/15
disciplinary [2] 13/2
120/11
discipline [1] 77/21
disclosed [1] 55/1
disclosure [2] 132/4
133/7
disclosures [1]
132/5
disconnect [1] 38/2
discount [1] 59/19
discovered [1] 53/21
discrepancies [7]
41/4 41/17 89/24
119/9 119/12 149/11
149/13
discrepancy [2]
128/25 138/19
discuss [7] 83/7
105/7 122/17 122/23
125/7 136/6 171/3
discussed [16] 30/14
35/8 44/2 45/16 52/14
58/17 61/2 84/8 93/18
120/3 122/20 140/10
140/10 146/12 148/21
153/19
discusses [1] 43/24
discussing [5] 26/14
44/20 70/20 108/4
171/18
discussion [31]
11/23 15/16 16/22
17/1 18/22 19/4 20/2
21/19 24/16 25/6
31/21 37/16 41/19
43/24 44/10 45/24
77/6 77/8 87/7 92/3
92/5 96/2 96/4 99/20
100/3 100/3 124/21
126/6 148/14 149/8
165/5
discussions [21]
16/15 18/19 19/13
20/8 20/15 22/4 24/13
31/23 31/25 35/25
41/21 59/23 76/21
88/19 116/24 148/10
149/10 151/13 151/15}
151/18 173/4
disgrace [1] 126/24
dismissed [4] 161/25
170/16 171/14 172/24
dispersed [1] 23/19
dispute [3] 139/16
151/11 174/22
disregard [1] 30/9
disrespectful [1]
107/20
disruptive [1] 86/7
dissatisfaction [3]
90/8 91/13 91/14
distinction [2]
133/19 161/6
distress [1] 131/9
disturbing [1] 52/5
diversity [4] 47/13
47/15 48/5 49/14
division [1] 103/18
do [131] 2/1 2/2 3/4
8/16 10/15 11/19
16/12 16/15 23/20
24/1 25/6 25/13 27/14
32/11 34/6 35/13 36/9
36/15 37/4 37/10
40/12 46/2 49/16
50/20 52/7 53/1 58/14
60/17 60/21 61/3
61/19 62/2 63/7 63/8
63/15 63/22 64/7
64/16 65/2 65/13
65/14 67/4 67/10
67/16 69/21 72/9
72/18 72/18 72/19
73/25 76/16 77/13
81/3 81/23 82/1 82/5
84/13 86/25 89/13
90/6 91/11 91/18
92/18 93/4 94/20
98/17 99/11 105/17
105/19 106/18 106/21
106/24 107/8 107/21
108/16 108/25 111/2
112/25 115/17 115/23
116/2 116/13 117/7
117/19 120/2 120/5
120/17 123/23 124/8
124/9 125/16 128/10
129/6 130/7 132/25
133/6 133/15 134/17
134/23 135/8 137/10
137/20 138/2 138/10
138/23 140/17 143/9
143/16 146/25 147/15}
149/23 150/12 150/16
151/25 152/3 152/6
153/25 155/14 155/21
156/15 156/18 156/20)
157/13 158/12 158/18}
159/24 161/9 162/8
163/7 165/23 171/20
document [27] 11/15
15/6 19/7 49/5 75/8
92/4 92/5 93/24 96/2
96/5 99/20 100/4
120/2 120/3 126/18
130/4 148/6 148/16
148/18 149/16 149/18)
161/14 165/7 166/22
170/8 171/9 176/4
documentary [1]
24/21
documentation [2]
113/21 147/11
documents [22]
10/19 17/22 17/23
17/25 18/1 34/23
108/8 109/15 112/6
118/7 122/15 124/21
124/23 126/14 129/15}
136/7 136/13 136/23
157/11 157/13 163/20}
171/16
does [18] 9/16 23/8
44/6 44/8 46/10 46/24
49/13 54/23 56/10
58/19 94/23 97/5
107/15 114/5 153/16
156/1 159/4 164/23
doesn't [13] 11/9
38/3 59/3 60/2 63/22
64/13 91/5 107/11
134/21 138/9 151/6
156/22 164/2
doing [21] 24/19 28/1
34/11 34/12 50/10
50/15 56/1 56/12 63/1
72/3 83/4 96/14
115/22 117/23 138/11
139/10 143/15 144/2
160/10 160/11 160/24)
domain [1] 115/10
don't [57] 10/16
11/21 11/23 15/11
15/11 19/12 20/1
21/14 27/25 36/13
50/10 50/10 50/24
51/7 55/3 70/14 73/1
80/8 91/14 92/23 93/4I
95/1 96/16 99/17
105/10 107/16 108/1
108/14 110/6 110/24
111/3 111/11 111/23
112/15 112/17 113/3
1413/8 117/17 118/12
118/14 121/25 123/3
123/5 140/13 142/25
148/22 152/4 152/11
156/3 156/21 158/13
158/20 159/14 161/6
165/20 167/12 175/12)
done [24] 4/16 22/1
42/12 51/11 59/4
68/20 68/20 91/18
91/18 96/20 109/17
111/10 130/8 135/20
139/3 139/4 141/11
141/25 143/14 153/21
156/11 161/22 176/8
176/9
door [2] 139/9
154/19
double [1] 36/10
doubt [2] 132/10
138/21
down [37] 5/19 5/24
8/21 11/13 15/24
22/24 32/5 35/14 43/5I
46/19 49/6 51/16 57/1
57/16 58/1 66/4 66/13
70/10 70/16 71/2 76/5
82/20 86/3 90/13
113/23 114/20 114/23)
124/19 126/16 129/24)
134/12 134/25 140/9
146/23 148/20 169/13)
170/14
downplaying [1]
91/12
draft [4] 73/18 73/21
80/22 172/15
drafted [2] 74/16
170/9
drafting [2] 144/3
170/12
drama [10] 11/10
21/10 21/16 21/20
22/23 23/11 109/18
168/13 168/19 169/4
dramatisation [1]
22/5
draw [2] 152/10
159/24
(53) determining... - drawO
D
drawing [1] 154/12
drill [2] 154/17 155/5
drinks [1] 25/1
drive [5] 7/13 7/18
85/5 110/16 154/19
driven [1] 54/7
driving [1] 116/5
Drop [4] 5/11 5/15
6/4 8/13
dual [1] 63/8
duality [1] 116/3
due [8] 19/2 21/3
73/10 75/19 85/11
87/16 114/16 130/1
during [11] 22/23
45/24 50/5 75/4 84/9
133/13 136/21 136/23
137/14 167/7 167/17
duties [1] 163/21
duty [6] 23/13 24/23
56/2 56/3 56/11 99/24
a
each [10] 32/15
85/22 95/13 100/7
111/21 117/20 126/19)
127/2 128/16 137/18
earlier [11] 33/3
71/16 71/21 77/6
120/1 130/11 137/15
148/7 160/14 167/2
172/16
early [7] 13/3 24/9
49/21 67/16 73/17
82/24 120/12
ease [2] 66/12 96/25
easier [1] 65/19
easily [1] 23/24
easy [3] 57/11 95/11
95/19
echo [1] 166/20
echoes [2] 38/22
146/21
economics [1] 10/13
EDI [1] 47/16
educate [1] 92/17
educated [1] 93/11
Edwards [1] 4/20
effecting [1] 32/7
effective [3] 56/7
85/17 154/23
effectively [3] 10/19
64/1 108/19
effectiveness [6]
73/5 74/20 74/25
75/19 80/17 117/19
effort [2] 107/20
153/13
efforts [1] 89/1
eg [1] 69/21
eg Horizon [1] 69/21
eight [5] 103/23
104/1 104/1 105/13
176/12
either [8] 15/5 17/17
27/11 65/10 127/24
139/3 150/20 161/14
EJ [1] 66/7
Eldridge [2] 157/20
158/7
elect [1] 134/12
elected [4] 1/17
115/23 115/23 115/25)
election [1] 1/13
element [2] 19/11
98/19
elements [1] 173/2
elevated [1] 168/24
Elliot [14] 5/17 52/18
83/2 84/4 92/2 98/17
102/3 102/20 102/23
1114/7 118/14 123/18
170/20 178/10
Ellison [1] 89/12
else [6] 37/24 59/10
112/22 146/15 158/15)
174/18
elsewhere [1] 110/24
email [46] 3/16 5/3
5/6 5/22 15/1 23/1
24/2 24/7 25/12 34/14
34/17 35/6 40/5 50/6
51/13 54/19 55/1
82/23 82/25 84/18
84/22 92/1 96/4 111/4
111/15 119/3 119/14
119/22 120/24 121/16)
126/11 128/17 131/10)
132/4 136/19 140/25
159/2 161/12 162/16
164/18 166/9 169/7
169/9 169/12 169/17
169/23
emailed [3] 25/20
48/7 123/13
emailing [1] 83/22
emails [9] 73/20
120/20 120/21 128/23)
130/12 130/14 130/16)
158/25 164/11
emphasis [2] 163/21
163/25
employed [2] 119/6
160/23
employee [5] 80/9
90/18 91/5 91/8
161/25
employees [5] 48/25
49/9 161/18 163/21
164/1
employment [2]
48/14 48/16
enable [4] 13/3 82/1
108/18 120/12
enables [2] 126/17
134/2
enclose [1] 40/5
encouraged [1]
116/20
end [9] 41/6 71/2
71/20 73/16 101/21
119/12 138/5 168/1
169/20
ended [3] 140/15
159/19 172/3
enforcement [12]
13/6 16/8 16/18 29/10
29/14 30/23 30/25
32/4 32/22 45/21
120/14 150/12
engage [5] 46/2 46/7
85/25 117/15 122/25
engaged [3] 70/24
116/23 151/23
engagement [7] 13/3
26/24 85/12 85/20
105/7 108/12 120/12
engaging [3] 85/10
86/14 86/15
enormously [1]
62/21
enough [3] 10/17
96/14 167/2
enquiry [1] 121/3
ensure [29] 1/19 3/7
5/20 15/9 23/13 24/20
39/15 48/23 50/21
52/11 52/15 55/17
56/3 56/4 56/5 59/3
59/5 68/19 69/21 73/1
73/12 84/5 86/24
88/25 105/19 126/5
126/9 141/8 161/22
ensured [2] 2/10
35/23
ensuring [1] 32/9
enter [1] 133/6
Enterprise [1] 81/25
entire [4] 19/11
109/11 113/11 114/3
entirely [2] 40/3
124/25
entitled [3] 15/21
34/18 92/3
entries [1] 137/20
environment [1]
48/25
equality [3] 47/13
47/15 49/13
equally [2] 20/14
76/6
equip [1] 10/17
equipment [4] 60/13
103/15 119/10 122/3
equivalent [1] 27/11
error [8] 57/9 70/1
95/9 95/19 153/15
154/1 154/18 171/8
errors [1] 40/24
escalate [1] 45/17
especially [3] 12/19
67/8 95/2
essential [1] 152/2
essentially [2] 170/4
174/16
established [3] 28/8
103/17 117/22
establishing [1]
28/10
et [4] 61/18 75/1
100/23 160/1
et cetera [4] 61/18
75/1 100/23 160/1
etc [1] 23/21
ethnic [1] 47/24
Europe [1] 29/1
even [12] 2/21 4/24
9/25 11/9 20/6 53/23
54/23 54/23 68/1
99/14 135/8 161/1
event [1] 26/13
events [10] 50/4 50/7
50/16 50/21 51/11
83/25 84/5 84/9 84/14)
87/1
ever [8] 9/14 21/15
120/3 123/18 126/22
136/17 160/15 166/5
every [14] 28/9 65/22
92/23 114/8 131/23
132/23 134/20 137/2
137/11 141/24 153/21
153/22 153/22 155/12}
everybody [5] 11/8
11/9 37/24 50/1
109/18
everyone [8] 60/19
61/1 72/11 107/10
158/15 161/7 167/22
168/23
everything [9] 6/15
32/10 59/5 65/23 67/9
108/2 111/13 155/6
168/25
everywhere [2] 1427/9)
143/11
evidence [39] 14/2
17/24 21/8 39/20 40/4}
40/11 40/20 40/21
41/10 42/17 42/20
42/24 43/1 43/4 44/18)
51/20 52/5 72/14
76/15 78/4 79/18
89/12 91/3 92/10
97/18 100/1 101/23
132/11 136/11 136/12}
137/23 149/2 149/20
151/4 151/5 159/11
173/25 176/24 177/8
evidenced [1] 16/7
evident [2] 49/20
93/4
evidentially [1] 28/8
evidentially-establishI
ed [1] 28/8
evolve [1] 163/16
evolved [2] 58/22
58/23
ex [2] 23/4 136/14
ex-police [1] 136/14
exacerbated [1]
79/12
exact [2] 77/5 175/12
exactly [1] 132/25
examine [1] 46/4
example [17] 15/17
16/19 18/13 18/17
44/18 45/1 47/23 50/3
58/24 76/25 93/18
95/7 113/20 146/25
148/17 157/20 160/2
examples [3] 21/13
35/16 114/12
Excel [3] 126/16
129/22 154/21
excellent [1] 112/8
excellently [1] 112/4
except [1] 127/25
exception [1] 63/22
exceptional [1] 22/9
exceptions [1] 70/21
excess [1] 58/11
exchange [2] 46/9
82/24
excluded [1] 79/15
excluding [1] 51/2
exec [8] 77/23
107/22 115/20 116/2
123/16 131/14 150/25)
176/1
execs [4] 104/21
107/2 111/17 165/14
execute [1] 69/14
executed [1] 110/18
execution [1] 148/9
executive [66] 2/6
2/11 10/18 11/7 11/19
12/2 14/17 15/25
21/17 21/18 22/1
35/21 53/20 54/22
55/17 60/19 60/25
61/2 61/10 72/10 76/9I
78/13 78/19 79/14
79/15 79/21 82/25
83/23 84/6 84/21 91/4I
91/11 91/15 91/15
92/11 94/3 96/23
98/12 104/6 104/9
106/7 106/9 107/2
107/3 110/10 111/1
114/22 124/1 124/2
125/21 142/17 142/22!
143/4 143/6 144/25
157/3 157/14 157/21
158/14 158/14 158/15}
158/16 158/17 165/9
166/3 167/5
Executives [2] 90/7
156/3
(64) drawing - ExecutivesO
E
exercised [1] 79/22
exercising [2] 29/24
33/14
exhibits [1] 30/10
existed [1] 76/23
existence [1] 41/2
existing [4] 6/9 63/12
90/24 91/22
exists [1] 38/2
exit [1] 72/14
exited [1] 80/25
exiting [1] 46/17
expand [2] 1/16
106/7
expansive [1] 105/11
expect [6] 28/20 47/1
67/18 89/3 108/7
173/3
expectation [1]
132/23
expectations [1]
7/25
expected [10] 8/18
15/7 15/8 30/20 37/7
47/6 53/7 53/9 82/18
104/20
expecting [3] 88/17
89/7 171/7
expects [1] 29/10
experience [24]
12/11 12/16 57/20
59/6 62/15 62/19 63/2
63/19 66/10 98/15
101/18 106/4 107/6
108/17 117/24 125/19)
133/23 134/14 135/2
139/6 140/4 146/23
148/13 156/7
experienced [7] 61/7
89/24 89/25 90/3
146/19 155/8 155/10
experiences [2] 1/10
67/4
expert [14] 39/20
40/19 40/20 41/15
41/16 41/20 42/1
42/17 42/20 42/23
42/25 43/3 114/18
155/7
expertise [1] 12/12
EXPG0000007 [2]
114/19 155/7
explain [5] 63/9
83/10 94/1 96/7
155/17
explained [1] 121/2
explaining [1] 121/14!
explains [1] 95/15
explanation [2]
126/19 143/22
explanations [1]
41/16
exploratory [1] 27/3
explore [1] 27/7
export [1] 154/21
express [2] 48/15
104/24
expressed [6] 22/11
22/12 22/17 76/6
85/24 129/9
extend [1] 84/23
extended [1] 110/21
extension [3] 31/24
60/3 60/5
extent [5] 18/20 46/5
97/5 134/13 147/15
external [7] 16/11
19/11 19/17 70/23
73/11 94/23 95/17
externally [1] 95/21
extra [1] 63/14
extremely [2] 6/15
72/24
F
face [7] 116/24
116/24 140/7 140/8
169/19 169/20 172/1
faced [2] 3/23 57/3
faces [1] 69/2
facilities [2] 50/23
50/24
facility [1] 64/3
facing [6] 62/12
62/20 66/15 66/19
66/21 67/1
fact [13] 105/11
131/14 141/13 141/17)
144/15 144/16 146/5
146/6 147/10 149/2
149/4 149/5 171/14
fact-find [1] 146/6
fact-finding [2] 146/5
147/10
factors [1] 58/16
facts [1] 17/14
factually [1] 44/5
fail [1] 145/4
failed [1] 84/3
failing [1] 57/17
failings [1] 18/2
failure [2] 18/4 40/12
faintly [1] 102/12
fair [6] 4/14 69/13
95/4 109/4 165/4
175/23
fairer [1] 19/1
fairly [3] 2/9 18/16
88/25
faith [3] 28/16 40/15
124/18
false [2] 29/16 145/1
familiar [3] 92/4
155/10 155/12
fantastic [2] 4/21
92/22
far [8] 61/21 101/19
117/9 129/12 131/25
138/7 162/18 168/18
fascinating [1] 92/22
fasting [2] 50/22 51/5I
fault [1] 171/14
favour [4] 57/24
66/15 105/11 116/8
fear [1] 131/18
Feb [1] 24/9
February [5] 73/17
73/17 144/11 159/3
161/13
Federation [1]
125/12
feed [1] 66/3
feedback [8] 1/14
1/16 1/18 43/14 43/23
52/22 84/24 85/1
feeds [1] 91/4
feel [22] 3/5 27/23
27/25 35/4 46/10 56/9
60/25 61/3 62/2 62/4
67/5 84/13 90/21
92/23 93/13 106/18
107/11 107/11 108/6
109/21 122/19 135/13}
feeling [2] 27/5 168/8
feelings [1] 131/12
feels [1] 107/10
fell [4] 172/25
felt [18] 5/8 23/12
24/23 63/3 64/25
83/12 112/21 115/9
131/19 133/21 135/15}
135/20 136/13 136/16
158/16 168/23 170/2
172/18
few [22] 2/18 10/25
39/11 42/12 47/10
54/19 60/15 77/15
88/21 96/9 99/15
109/7 117/2 128/17
134/19 149/13 151/8
152/24 153/9 169/2
169/16 176/5
fiduciary [1] 56/3
fieldwork [1] 75/8
fighting [1] 108/4
figures [2] 10/14
100/17
file [4] 128/7 128/8
128/11 175/3
filenote [2] 142/21
170/7
fill [1] 173/23
filled [3] 101/1 101/3
173/24
filling [1] 176/18
filtering [1] 28/23
final [9] 12/22 31/6
45/8 69/4 82/21 99/18
103/4 158/1 172/4
finalise [1] 170/22
finalised [1] 141/2
finally [3] 53/11
98/10 173/6
Finance [1] 93/19
financial [2] 16/10
145/11
find [11] 7/2 30/14
31/14 38/22 77/15
107/23 109/16 121/13
122/16 136/7 146/6
finding [6] 6/6 75/22
144/15 144/16 146/5
147/10
findings [9] 30/10
32/9 70/4 75/5 75/15
81/3 81/6 82/16 145/7
finds [1] 45/25
fine [7] 8/17 21/4
65/19 88/3 101/17
102/6 152/18
fingers [1] 141/24
finished [4] 22/24
fire [1] 170/7
firmly [1] 85/13
first [44] 2/19 11/4
13/15 26/16 43/5
44/14 48/18 49/1 52/4)
52/20 52/21 56/12
58/10 58/24 62/12
65/9 70/13 73/5 73/18
73/21 74/19 75/16
79/10 81/11 85/6
85/23 86/4 86/13
88/23 101/7 106/9
112/5 122/20 133/4
145/7 151/5 153/4
153/7 161/6 164/12
165/14 166/18 167/6
170/4
firstly [10] 50/6 53/18)
55/2 58/16 62/21
87/18 90/11 94/22
134/19 153/18
fit [4] 69/17 69/22
156/23 159/23
five [4] 60/5 72/2
89/4 162/11
fixed [3] 91/1 98/20
104/19
fixture [1] 99/3
flat [1] 165/21
flavour [1] 86/24
Foat [10] 118/16
118/18 118/20 121/1
123/17 142/23 146/17)
166/5 167/1 167/9
focus [1] 77/24
follow [3] 19/5 136/8
176/10
followed [2] 18/7
138/1
following [4] 8/10
71/11 81/1 96/4
follows [8] 26/21
32/1 59/25 92/7 119/4
120/6 126/13 133/5
force [1] 151/2
forced [1] 171/12
forceful [1] 158/22
foreign [1] 57/15
forensic [1] 41/15
forensically [1] 175/3)
forget [1] 21/15
form [10] 20/11 64/5
110/19 114/2 124/8
124/11 124/16 129/12)
131/4 145/2
formal [4] 76/8 122/8
136/1 139/17
format [5] 121/14
126/16 126/17 166/7
171/15
former [4] 92/10
98/12 115/15 116/7
fortunate [1] 135/5
forums [1] 81/25
forward [26] 4/18
28/18 54/11 54/17
54/22 73/1 90/23 93/9I
99/9 106/16 110/16
116/5 128/18 136/8
141/13 148/5 148/11
149/15 151/10 151/25)
158/20 158/21 170/23}
170/25 171/2 172/22
forwarded [2] 3/16
130/11
forwarding [2] 171/8
171/15
forwards [1] 169/1
found [6] 10/21 109/7I
123/22 124/12 132/20}
177/17
four [5] 16/8 92/16
140/9 140/13 143/6
fourth [2] 64/15
81/25
fractious [1] 151/24
framework [2] 12/7
73/12
frameworks [1] 12/8
franchise [2] 103/20
153/4
frankly [3] 109/17
126/24 142/1
fraud [5] 17/15 29/16
38/9 39/1 147/7
freezes [1] 89/22
fresh [1] 140/5
Friday [1] 7/10
friend [2] 2/17
125/12
friendliness [1]
136/16
friendly [1] 153/8
front [3] 102/24
139/9 154/19
frontline [1] 54/3
¢
(55) exercised - frontlineO
F
80/10
FUJ00243199 [1]
29/2
FUJ00243204 [1]
31/15
FUJ00243203 [2]
25/10 149/18
FUJ00243204 [2]
37/9 39/10
FUJ00243209 [1]
42/14
FUJ00243214 [1]
45/10
Fujitsu [63] 25/11
26/10 26/13 26/14
27/3 27/12 27/18
27/22 28/14 28/16
29/1 29/10 29/12
31/23 32/13 33/13
33/16 33/17 34/4
36/23 38/18 38/19
39/10 39/20 39/25
40/14 40/17 40/20
40/25 41/11 41/24
43/12 43/16 43/19
44/4 44/21 45/9 45/25
46/7 46/12 46/18 47/5)
60/3 61/15 61/17
149/19 149/25 150/16
150/20 151/20 152/11
full [5] 102/22 114/1
126/5 131/7 159/21
fully [7] 79/24 129/11
131/5 132/5 132/17
147/12 161/23
fuming [1] 6/18
function [2] 17/8
167/17
functionality [1] 66/9
functioning [1]
154/23
functions [2] 17/17
167/18
fundamental [3]
32/13 108/13 163/11
funding [5] 66/21
funds [1] 72/7
funeral [2] 2/22 4/23
further [21] 32/2
32/11 39/9 40/25
42/14 46/2 46/8 60/9
71/2 73/3 93/5 124/4
133/12 136/20 143/1
145/17 164/18 165/5
171/2 171/19 176/22
future [13] 32/18
56/6 66/24 69/1 69/19
frustrations [1]
25/21 25/22 26/6 26/9
29/23 30/5 30/13 31/2
42/4 42/20 42/23 43/3
70/17 88/10 88/20
89/6 92/9 108/14
117/8 145/19
G
gaps [2] 163/4
176/19
Gate [2] 53/20 73/10
gathered [1] 135/18
Gaunt [1] 71/23
gave [5] 1/15 4/1
89/12 166/16 174/17
Gavin [1] 89/12
general [2] 85/19
165/8
generate [1] 129/22
genuinely [2] 106/19
106/22
gesture [1] 83/13
get [45] 1/14 19/6
21/3 23/12 24/18
24/23 26/17 27/19
38/10 46/18 48/5
71/19 72/13 73/25
105/24 106/2 108/15
127/16 138/12 138/22,
futureproof [1] 69/22
gap [1] 173/23
51/10 52/24 60/6 67/8)
111/25 114/16 117/16)
118/21 122/10 124/21
81/2 82/5 85/6 91/25
104/13 118/6 120/22
122/15 126/11 133/4
136/8 137/8 137/9
140/17 140/18 153/6
155/7 166/24 173/22
175/24
goes [3] 9/4 98/14
131/1
36/8 50/2 50/16 55/9
60/20 61/3 67/9 68/9
70/17 73/1 7/7 79/1
83/16 86/23 89/11
91/4 96/11 102/2
102/13 102/18 105/1
105/3 105/4 106/16
109/2 118/3 119/22
133/21 135/11 135/21
139/8 139/13 139/14
149/16 152/23 157/41
157/9 159/18 162/21
165/12 170/20 172/4
gone [3] 19/9 26/22
54/5
134/12 134/21 134/23
goal [2] 72/12 100/18
going [57] 1/8 1/9 8/2
9/21 10/3 15/22 18/25
21/24 25/8 29/3 35/17,
55/14 56/23 60/1 60/4
139/15 141/25 142/7
143/13 146/24 151/18)
154/14 154/18 156/21
158/22 165/25 167/20)
67/1 67/2 75/21 75/24
168/24 172/14 172/21
gets [1] 38/17
59/18 70/18 86/24
128/1 175/21 176/1
give [19] 11/5 21/12
23/9 39/20 42/20
47/17 60/5 65/12
67/12 70/6 81/16
87/18 113/20 118/23
121/3 126/5 159/11
166/14 173/13
given [24] 9/14 14/24
20/17 27/8 28/23
46/21 54/14 70/10
75/25 76/1 83/18
92/11 95/10 113/21
113/25 114/2 114/6
115/11 124/15 124/16)
126/24 135/10 163/22)
173/12
gives [1] 62/19
giving [5] 78/4 79/19
101/23 102/4 176/24
glad [2] 39/13 135/23
global [1] 154/8
go [33] 2/5 4/25 6/21
22/7 23/21 33/24
35/13 43/25 60/7 72/2
getting [8] 17/1 24/19)
good [19] 1/5 23/25
54/25 59/19 64/25
66/10 73/24 96/14
102/6 102/11 106/25
112/18 113/1 113/3
135/8 141/22 150/9
169/20 172/2
goods [1] 59/16
got [28] 3/1 14/19
20/23 21/2 34/11
36/17 37/18 49/10
49/25 50/24 51/4
55/19 58/21 59/22
63/15 64/8 68/5 72/18
72/18 72/21 73/14
73/19 94/23 138/1
146/18 146/22 176/4
176/5
governance [19]
13/14 13/20 54/25
62/22 64/25 70/25
71/5 71/7 73/6 73/13
75/1 75/6 80/13 80/17
81/8 121/22 172/14
172/16 175/24
Government [4] 5/14
6/11 75/24 100/19
Government's [1]
88/10
grade [2] 53/22 53/25)
graduate [1] 10/13
Graham [1] 8/22
Grant [7] 73/4 73/18
TAIT 17215 172/10
172/12 172/15
grasp [2] 62/2 95/18
grateful [3] 27/10
101/24 176/25
Gratton [1] 173/4
gravy [1] 9/6
Gray [2] 18/23 25/3
great [7] 117/23
157/7 157/10 159/1
greatly [1] 107/6
grieving [1] 4/4
grips [1] 70/18
grossly [1] 20/24
groundwork [1]
109/16
group [12] 3/15 81/9
81/12 117/13 118/1
119/10 122/4 140/6
143/6 145/21 157/14
158/1
groups [1] 92/20
grow [1] 163/15
grown [1] 103/23
guess [1] 175/7
guidance [2] 106/14
124/15
guide [1] 92/17
guilt [1] 164/5
139/21 165/18
guises [1] 149/14
GULAM [2] 1/3 178/2
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had [131] 1/17 1/25
3/16 3/21 4/11 4/13
8/16 9/1 9/12 9/19
18/22 19/4 20/15
21/12 21/13 21/17
22/15 22/15 23/16
24/25 27/2 29/4 35/20)
35/22 36/21 41/1
43/15 44/2 47/23
47/23 50/8 51/14
51/14 51/25 53/21
53/21 54/2 54/4 59/12,
59/15 59/21 59/24
61/16 61/21 66/5 66/5)
66/6 66/7 66/7 71/16
71/18 71/24 73/10
73/22 76/21 76/24
77/6 83/10 87/3 94/10)
100/3 100/3 104/19
104/20 106/15 109/5
109/6 109/14 109/17
109/17 110/2 110/3
111/9 111/9 117/24
118/1 119/8 119/15
120/19 123/7 123/10
129/21 131/15 135/9
162/22 173/11 173/14)
Greenhow [1] 177/13}
group-wide [1] 81/12
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4/19 5/4 5/22 7/7 7/24
135/18 136/15 137/17
138/4 138/12 138/24
138/25 139/21 140/20)
142/4 143/7 151/15
158/21 159/10 159/19}
160/2 160/4 162/11
163/2 163/2 163/3
165/14 165/18 166/10}
166/14 167/5 167/5
168/6 168/8 168/17
169/18 169/21 169/24)
170/18 171/7 171/12
172/2 172/24 172/25
173/25 174/12 174/23)
had a [1] 71/16
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21/11 34/19 45/11
80/5 106/5 110/18
123/10 136/24 138/3
half [4] 143/12
halfway [2] 43/5
70/16
Hamilton [2] 9/2
10/12
hamstrung [1] 142/6
hand [7] 2/19 78/10
79/10 88/2 120/2
129/13 154/20
handled [2] 85/15
127/20
handles [1] 51/17
handling [2] 142/17
149/13
handover [2] 85/18
163/9
hands [4] 22/2 55/5
99/22 169/20
hang [1] 36/13
happen [9] 4/11
15/22 31/13 39/17
89/7 95/6 112/5 151/7
174/18
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5/7 5/11 5/21 19/2
19/7 21/17 22/12
23/12 35/22 60/9
99/14 109/5 109/17
125/9 143/18 151/4
157/24 166/16 168/22!
174/6 174/23
happening [3] 79/3
86/8 156/3
happens [5] 38/21
107/18 116/6 122/13
174/25
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23/23 24/7 24/9 33/12
38/19 64/7 83/7 98/1
101/21 111/12 121/2
146/22
hard [9] 20/20 82/7
135/9 143/13 152/4
156/4 156/13 162/13
162/13
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134/24
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5/14 5/14 5/22 6/16
6/20 10/7 16/4 16/7
18/14 20/23 25/20
26/22 27/1 27/8 30/21
32/6 33/12 38/8 40/21
40/23 40/25 41/10
41/25 43/2 44/17 47/7
48/4 48/19 49/23 56/5)
58/22 59/4 59/4 59/24
60/14 61/8 62/15
65/21 68/24 69/16
70/4 72/11 75/3 75/10
77/16 84/3 88/18 89/8
89/16 90/22 91/20
92/22 99/4 99/5 99/23,
100/7 102/16 103/3
106/25 107/4 107/6
109/24 111/22 112/17)
113/14 113/23 116/15)
116/23 117/11 122/2
122/4 125/8 129/2
131/9 131/10 134/4
138/19 141/18 145/16)
145/20 145/23 146/4
146/14 148/14 148/23)
149/2 149/3 149/3
149/4 149/5 149/8
149/13 151/3 154/16
158/19 161/25 162/17)
162/22 163/4 163/18
169/3 169/4 177/6
hasn't [3] 100/1
141/11 177/4
have [283]
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100/10 116/16 118/1
173/6 173/8
having [28] 8/11
15/14 20/13 28/16
31/18 37/25 40/14
51/23 62/20 75/24
92/23 93/16 99/13
99/15 104/10 104/24
104/25 105/25 107/8
124/11 129/6 130/8
143/15 146/19 148/5
149/23 163/16 175/17)
he [98] 2/1 2/5 2/18
2/23 3/19 9/18 21/20
23/18 25/20 25/22
26/9 29/17 31/6 32/15)
32/16 32/21 33/19
33/20 35/16 36/15
39/12 39/18 40/7 41/9
42/6 42/13 42/18 43/5
43/22 43/23 44/1 44/3)
45/7 45/14 48/2 51/3
51/14 51/14 51/15
51/17 51/20 51/20
51/22 51/24 52/3
52/18 66/7 66/11
70/13 71/23 73/11
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98/16 107/3 110/14
110/15 110/18 116/10)
116/13 116/13 118/12
118/13 118/21 118/21
118/23 119/4 119/13
121/10 121/19 122/21
122/21 122/22 129/5
129/6 129/20 130/10
130/24 133/24 136/19)
142/13 143/7 158/7
158/8 158/8 166/16
167/10 167/11 168/10)
169/9 169/10 169/12
170/14 170/2 171/8
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he's [7] 23/4 23/4
25/16 25/18 63/11
71/24 166/15
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27/13 48/23 71/9
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116/22 118/16 121/12)
121/20 123/12 156/17)
head-on [1] 48/23
heading [1] 59/22
headline [1] 81/5
headquarters [3]
123/14 123/16 137/3
hear [10] 1/5 3/5
50/10 56/21 88/12
88/13 88/17 102/11
102/13 102/18
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41/10 54/15 71/9
104/13 146/14 168/20)
hearing [4] 28/18
50/11 95/4 177/17
heart [2] 108/17
172/20
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94/5 94/6 104/5 104/7
106/9
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26/5 67/21 84/20
96/25 170/21
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helped [2] 80/10
135/24
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91/17 92/7 93/1 97/21
98/10 169/3
helping [2] 3/20
163/13
helps [3] 62/20 62/21
64/18
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5/22 15/11 19/16
27/25 59/19 60/2
60/12 64/13 70/13
72/4 97/11 99/25
Henry [13] 78/24
118/9 141/15 164/15
165/14 165/19 165/19!
166/14 167/12 170/7
1741/1 172/13 172/13
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3/21 3/23 3/25 4/1 4/3}
4/4 415 4/17 4/18 4/22
4/23 4/23 4/25 5/7
5/23 6/3 6/17 6/19
8/10 8/11 54/21 58/20
140/9 163/2
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37/1 37/5 44/25 45/3
46/7 49/12 52/4 53/4
97/25 97/25 120/2
129/1 129/5 134/23
135/4 136/13 138/18
139/9 140/25 142/3
150/13 157/20
Hertfordshire [1]
103/25
Hi [2] 47/25 111/7
hierarchy [1] 50/1
high [10] 1/20 11/14
12/19 13/13 13/21
62/23 114/24 133/10
160/20 168/4
high-pressure [1]
168/4
high-risk [2] 13/21
160/20
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highest [2] 150/7
169/14
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132/14 132/17 155/14
166/22
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highly [4] 9/18 52/5
73/21 125/24
him [10] 4/14 51/9
51/15 88/2 118/1
129/10 146/18 165/17]
169/19 170/3
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131/15
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86/13 86/15
hindsight [4] 11/10
37/6 82/16 124/18
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21/21 23/10 25/21
66/6 68/19 70/10
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142/19 151/17 158/10}
170/21 170/22 171/6
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108/23
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138/19
historically [1] 139/8
history [2] 52/12
171/25
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hm [1] 164/17
hold [2] 60/17 87/19
holds [1] 31/2
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home [1] 159/22
homework [1] 150/5
honest [1] 158/13
hope [2] 83/2 105/25
hoped [1] 21/21
hopefully [1] 90/23
hoping [1] 23/7
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Horizon [61] 18/3
18/21 18/24 20/10
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30/24 31/2 31/10 33/9
33/11 33/22 34/1
39/14 40/10 40/18
40/25 41/6 41/7 41/11
41/21 42/3 43/8 43/19
57/3 57/5 57/7 57/14
57/17 57/20 58/25
61/6 63/10 63/12 64/5)
67/8 67/14 68/1 69/6
69/21 90/9 137/20
138/5 148/15 148/25
150/14 152/24 153/3
153/4 153/22 154/23
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156/14 156/22 156/23}
157/6 161/19
horrendous [1]
166/23
horrific [1] 146/21
hour [1] 102/4
hours [2] 7/10
134/15
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17/2 19/12 21/12
21/20 24/21 24/22
26/23 28/6 35/10 36/7,
38/3 46/11 49/13 53/5
54/1 54/7 54/20 54/23
56/10 61/18 63/12
67/16 67/17 67/22
67/25 68/1 68/1 69/14
69/19 69/21 69/23
69/25 74/5 86/15 87/8
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107/17 107/18 108/3
109/17 113/6 116/25
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139/18 141/21 146/20}
146/25 147/18 149/11
156/4 156/12 159/14
163/5 168/7 170/23
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16/5 21/25 22/3 22/5
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62/20 64/11 67/24
71/7 74/1 80/5 87/16
95/17 97/1 99/3
125/14 130/1 159/4
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144/6
Hub [3] 88/22 104/8
154/16
huge [5] 90/8 117/24
127/23 168/1 168/2
human [2] 57/9 70/1
humble [1] 171/10
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3/24 3/25 4/23 8/10
Hutchings [1] 9/3
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143/17
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115/21
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104/8 123/13
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29/7 33/12 39/13 45/5I
48/20 89/8 119/6
121/20 131/4 131/25
133/8 133/25 135/4
141/5 144/19
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56/10
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103/4
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48/22 117/15 124/7
139/5 150/1 150/5
151/21
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22/18 32/17 46/14
46/24 46/24 53/5
55/25 80/2 83/8 88/13
90/2 102/12 103/7
108/3 121/5 128/16
146/6 155/5 164/14
174/15 175/18
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I can't... [4] 99/16
105/22 117/24 125/20)
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53/24 55/13 60/4
137/22
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124/11
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40/2
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135/17 139/16 171/11
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61/11 128/12
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55/11 81/3 88/20 92/5
109/4 124/17 124/18
135/23
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101/3 109/11 135/15
139/14 171/18
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108/16 120/5 124/9
132/25 133/6
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11/21 19/12 21/14
36/13 51/7 55/3 91/14
92/23 108/14 110/6
110/24 111/3 112/15
113/3 113/8 117/17
118/12 118/14 121/25}
123/3 123/5 140/13
142/25 148/22 152/4
152/11 158/13 158/20)
159/14 161/6 165/20
167/12 175/12
lenclose [1] 40/5
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35/23
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l expressed [1] 22/11
l extended [1] 110/21
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56/9 60/25 62/4 90/21
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63/3
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130/11
fully [1] 161/23
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9/19 18/22 22/15
47/23 53/21 109/14
111/9 138/24 138/25
140/20 171/7
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138/3
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36/8 36/19 42/4 45/13
49/15 51/9 64/19 88/8
89/18 100/3 100/9
100/11 100/24 111/10)
111/10 119/8 121/8
122/12 123/15 126/14)
127/21 128/16 129/16)
129/21 130/4 130/25
131/21 131/24 133/17)
135/4 135/5 135/6
135/8 137/18 142/21
176/21
I haven't [2] 100/10
118/1
lin [4] 161/16
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I joined [2] 109/4
110/2
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78/9 97/12 100/9
177/4
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I know [7] 24/3 42/11
88/15 90/3 111/7
117/25 135/19
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132/20
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I learned [1] 109/8
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102/3 144/1 165/6
1741/5
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71/12
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169/19
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173/21
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139/16
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I provided [1] 99/20
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raised [6] 9/5 14/18
46/3 50/17 78/22 79/4
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44/15 50/5 100/5
regularly [1] 131/22
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73/22 74/12 132/18
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88/7
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128/19
I right [3] 38/24 129/14
174/16
run [1] 135/5
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6/8 19/5 24/18 47/19
51/1 54/12 82/3 138/9
146/18
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36/12 44/14
I say [8] 20/18 21/18
53/22 59/1 72/4 73/18
109/25 143/10
I see [1] 93/15
I sent [1] 36/17
I should [2] 37/6
93/12
I signed [1] 124/11
Isit [1] 134/19
I spoke [3] 2/24
146/17 166/13
I started [1] 49/21
I stated [1] 45/23
I still [1] 141/2
I suppose [1] 158/11
I take [2] 86/9 100/21
I then [2] 4/11 4/19
I think [98] 8/16 11/5
13/5 19/10 20/24
22/23 24/3 30/13 34/8
38/12 43/10 49/15
57/7 58/7 69/8 70/5
75/10 80/9 82/15 93/8
94/22 95/24 97/7
100/18 101/10 102/16
105/22 106/11 106/16
106/25 107/1 107/13
107/19 107/22 108/12
109/2 109/4 112/4
112/8 113/2 113/2
114/12 115/23 118/12]
125/24 127/6 129/9
134/15 137/1 137/13
138/18 147/2 147/17
147/19 150/3 150/7
150/10 150/13 150/18!
150/24 152/2 152/9
153/24 156/4 156/5
156/10 156/21 157/5
157/17 162/11 162/18}
163/19 164/14 165/1
165/13 166/2 167/14
168/7 168/10 168/19
168/21 168/23 169/1
169/17 169/21 170/1
170/4 170/15 170/20
171/1 172/18 173/10
173/24 175/12 175/16
175/23 176/4 176/15
I thought [7] 5/24
5/25 36/12 124/2
129/7 134/18 172/1
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I took [2] 105/2
109/12
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25/23 37/13 39/7
99/18 142/18 145/25
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169/24
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165/21 174/16
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18/18 91/24 105/2
142/12 150/25
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3/13 15/2 17/25 23/7
47/19 47/21 48/18
48/21 55/15 55/18
56/12 79/3 86/20
86/22 101/10 102/2
104/19 107/17 118/17]
124/15 124/16 124/17}
132/22 135/18 135/19}
135/21 138/3 138/10
139/15 140/19 142/15}
146/11 157/22 157/22)
158/4 158/5 167/13
169/23 171/6 171/7
173/5 174/19
I wasn't [10] 15/12
28/3 50/6 53/23 101/5
105/4 139/21 151/19
151/20 174/20
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I went [2] 55/1
135/17
I will [6] 27/15 128/17
130/3 132/5 137/25
141/10
I wish [1] 124/24
I won't [3] 62/10
104/13 172/6
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9/19 15/6 15/7 32/6
32/11 37/7 47/5 53/6
53/9 82/17 83/24
106/23 110/14 112/22}
116/17 119/10 121/2
129/12 141/6 144/5
146/7 156/17 159/21
170/9 171/9 173/3
174/19
I wouldn't [5] 51/5
116/10 116/10 116/13
140/5
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16/2 45/9 47/10 48/7
68/7 82/21 114/12
114/14 122/13 123/17]
127/10 136/17 137/16
138/24 164/8 167/13
174/5
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23/22 39/11 42/7
42/12 43/25 81/3 88/2)
169/7 174/1
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10/1 10/3 10/15 19/14)
22/11 22/14 24/9 25/8
29/2 35/25 36/7 36/17
37/18 38/6 38/21
47/22 53/5 55/25 61/8)
61/10 67/25 68/9 74/7I
74/8 84/20 87/2 87/5
88/14 88/14 89/11
90/12 99/2 99/22
101/24 110/3 113/24
113/25 118/3 124/14
127/6 127/7 135/23
143/3 144/7 144/23
146/22 149/16 157/9
158/13 158/14 163/5
164/2 172/2 172/4
173/1 176/25
I've [42] 2/15 3/1 9/7
10/9 14/16 15/6 17/23}
19/13 20/15 27/23
28/22 35/23 37/18
42/7 42/12 47/22
49/10 49/20 51/4 55/1
55/4 60/15 63/24 71/9
71/9 86/17 93/1 95/2
95/10 95/11 100/17
106/9 107/1 107/23
109/24 117/24 122/9
125/2 143/11 157/10
159/10 162/12
1A [2] 70/23 71/4
idea [4] 112/18
127/16 131/24 133/17
identification [1]
52/7
identified [7] 18/4
33/5 45/3 48/19 75/4
122/22 125/7
identify [2] 122/25
160/18
identity [1] 76/4
ie [2] 27/12 80/24
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ie Mr Staunton [1]
80/24
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10/1 10/20 13/18
15/24 16/23 17/4 17/5)
17/9 18/15 19/7 19/19}
22/11 22/24 23/18
23/23 24/2 26/8 26/16)
27/10 27/13 31/6 32/5I
33/24 35/25 36/17
37/4 37/20 38/7 38/10)
41/9 43/25 48/9 49/6
50/20 51/13 52/2 55/5
57/1 57/7 57/16 62/14
(58) I can't... - ifO
if... [87] 63/13 63/13
63/14 64/9 65/11
65/24 65/25 66/3
66/13 68/22 69/16
70/10 70/14 71/14
74/21 75/10 76/24
77/20 79/1 79/8 80/5
80/13 81/2 83/21
84/16 85/6 85/23
86/12 87/5 88/15 90/6
90/19 95/15 99/17
100/9 105/3 111/22
114/19 114/20 114/23)
119/25 120/21 120/22)
121/4 124/19 125/3
125/11 126/11 128/13}
129/19 131/2 132/18
133/4 134/5 134/7
134/11 135/15 136/5
137/24 140/23 140/24}
141/9 141/12 141/23
142/13 148/2 150/8
151/3 152/25 157/12
157/13 158/13 158/21
159/20 161/9 164/18
165/3 166/8 166/8
166/18 170/13 170/18}
4171/7 171/11 173/12
175/18 176/16
ignored [6] 5/20
64/20 87/12 87/21
96/17 96/23
image [1] 97/24
imagine [1] 125/20
imbalance [2] 99/6
147/25
immediately [1]
147/11
immerse [1] 156/11
immersed [1] 131/15
immersion [1] 110/6
impact [4] 21/11 81/8
81/21 92/18
implement [2] 55/14
90/21
implementation [4]
59/6 59/17 70/5
156/18
implemented [4]
73/13 93/18 109/1
156/16
implementing [1]
60/21
implies [1] 107/14
imply [1] 107/15
implying [1] 34/10
importance [1]
104/25
important [17] 1/19
4/8 28/6 31/22 36/2
52/15 93/8 93/13
93/23 104/18 113/5
113/8 115/24 150/25
156/21 172/8 172/19
impossible [3] 28/6
126/23 126/23
impression [5] 27/8
43/17 46/21 77/12
142/16
improperly [1] 176/2
improve [1] 81/8
improved [1] 145/19
improvement [2]
14/3 112/9
inaccuracies [1]
153/12
inaccurate [2] 51/18
113/15
inappropriate [3]
9/18 26/13 40/3
incapable [1] 40/20
incentive [1] 54/17
incidence [1] 107/21
incident [1] 166/13
incidents [1] 52/18
include [2] 127/14
158/2
included [2] 10/9
10/12
includes [1] 17/11
including [6] 13/12
33/8 41/4 69/3 110/12
127/1
inclusion [2] 47/15
49/14
inclusive [1] 48/24
income [2] 54/5
124/12
incomplete [3] 71/14
145/1 162/2
inconclusive [1] 27/3
inconsistency [1]
70/22
incorporated [1] 59/5)
incorrectly [2] 57/14
57/23
increase [3] 54/4
58/15 125/8
increased [1] 59/5
increases [2] 54/2
79/5
incredibly [12] 36/2
109/13 131/13 135/3
135/9 135/21 142/6
162/10 168/4 168/9
169/4 176/15
incredulous [1]
143/8
indeed [4] 30/10
155/4 158/8 175/9
independence [2]
12/6 50/15
independent [11]
16/10 29/24 32/25
33/14 38/20 39/2
40/21 41/14 42/24
74/24 79/14
indescribable [1]
168/21
indicate [1] 29/9
indirectly [2] 27/5
43/18
individual [12] 3/15
12/6 12/10 18/10 23/4
47/24 53/9 59/22
60/22 80/24 154/17
154/18
individuals [34] 2/11
2/19 4/9 10/17 15/23
20/16 20/19 20/21
21/20 22/3 48/5 49/7
49/17 49/22 50/22
54/1 60/18 67/13 74/3
76/24 80/3 86/22
87/18 91/21 93/6
93/14 93/17 93/20
94/15 99/13 143/24
159/9 159/25 159/25
inefficiencies [1]
70/1
inevitable [1] 38/14
infer [1] 174/16
inference [1] 134/23
influence [1] 66/2
inform [5] 7/6 8/1
8/16 116/3 144/19
informally [1] 79/16
information [34] 10/6
11/4 14/21 17/2 20/7
27/2 28/23 31/3 34/5
34/19 38/3 38/19
40/22 71/14 77/23
87/17 96/24 111/8
111/15 111/24 113/22]
113/25 114/2 115/18
129/4 135/10 135/18
150/9 150/12 153/17
154/14 155/21 161/24)
165/21
informative [1]
109/13
informed [11] 6/7
27/1 36/21 48/21
54/21 61/22 62/18
65/17 84/4 88/10
93/11
informing [2] 5/23
617
infrastructure [1]
106/6
inherent [1] 124/3
inhibiting [1] 75/18
initial [3] 10/20 87/4
172/15
initially [1] 58/6
initiative [2] 1/23
86/21
innocent [1] 41/3
innovation [1] 96/25
Input [1] 16/23
inquiry [28] 1/13 9/1
11/2 18/7 30/11 31/8
40/4 41/11 41/19
45/12 46/4 52/6 61/5
61/5 89/17 92/11 99/4
112/10 146/14 148/23}
159/10 159/17 159/18}
161/17 169/3 172/20
173/13 177/8
Inquiry's [4] 58/23
103/12 108/23 155/20}
ins [1] 63/9
insisted [1] 68/19
insofar [1] 46/12
instance [1] 176/9
instances [1] 44/16
instead [2] 4/2 60/4
instigate [1] 39/2
institution [2] 89/4
92/22
instructed [6] 59/15
TAIT 137/17 137/19
138/3 138/4
instructions [2]
14/23 145/18
insufficient [1] 114/6
int [4] 98/15
integration [2] 57/5
64/4
integrity [1] 18/23
intend [3] 46/2 133/6
166/5
intended [2] 105/19
139/2
intense [2] 106/12
168/9
intention [2] 165/13
166/2
interaction [2] 108/7
118/2
interest [2] 2/13
123/20
interested [1] 2/21
interesting [2] 1/25
171/24
interests [2] 32/10
134/5
interference [1]
75/19
interim [11] 68/19
70/9 74/13 77/7 112/3)
116/22 117/3 162/25
163/1 172/25 172/25
internal [6] 44/21
74/15 95/3 100/25
165/6 170/8
internally [1] 5/5
interpreted [2] 28/14
40/13
interrogate [1]
154/10
interrogated [1]
127/24
interrogating [1]
135/7
interview [33] 119/11
121/6 121/8 121/11
121/15 125/1 125/6
133/6 133/14 133/15
133/18 133/25 134/1
134/7 134/8 134/13
134/16 135/1 135/3
136/1 136/2 136/9
136/14 136/21 136/24}
138/12 138/15 140/24)
174/1 174/1 174/18
174/20 174/21
interviewed [4] 75/11
97/23 97/24 174/12
interviews [3] 75/7
134/15 175/8
into [37] 5/5 14/15
14/17 14/18 14/19
16/6 16/16 17/10
20/11 22/22 22/25
29/22 35/9 36/4 49/13}
61/3 61/4 91/4 115/10
118/4 118/13 119/9
127/18 130/16 130/19)
131/13 133/6 135/4
135/11 135/21 137/9
142/7 148/23 148/24
150/18 153/16 177/4
introduced [2] 48/1
105/17
introductory [1] 48/1
invalid [1] 141/19
invested [1] 32/7
investigate [4] 18/4
130/7 153/14 164/5
investigated [6]
41/13 52/23 143/7
143/12 143/14 149/5
investigating [6]
18/10 34/12 60/9
108/23 122/2 148/17
investigation [74]
12/18 13/1 14/20
14/22 17/8 18/20
19/11 19/23 20/12
23/2 24/20 25/9 25/12I
25/18 25/25 26/4
26/15 27/14 29/21
30/3 33/8 33/11 35/15}
38/11 38/17 39/2
41/25 43/17 43/21
118/4 119/8 119/16
119/19 119/19 119/20)
119/20 120/10 120/17)
120/18 121/13 121/21
123/8 123/9 123/11
129/6 129/17 141/4
141/20 142/2 142/9
142/11 142/20 142/21
144/4 144/14 144/15
144/17 146/5 146/13
147/9 148/24 149/9
149/22 150/3 151/1
(69) if... - investigationO
investigation... [9]
153/17 153/19 167/11
167/14 167/15 167/16)
167/20 167/21 173/22
investigations [78]
9/2 10/4 11/14 11/17
12/7 12/15 12/20
12/23 13/9 13/10
13/12 13/16 13/21
13/24 14/3 14/7 14/9
14/10 14/15 14/17
14/19 15/21 15/24
16/1 16/6 16/16 17/10)
19/15 19/15 19/22
19/23 20/7 20/17 21/1
22/19 22/20 23/3
24/14 27/13 27/25
28/2 29/18 30/8 32/16
32/24 34/18 35/4 35/9
35/10 36/5 43/9 82/15)
82/19 94/8 94/10
94/24 95/3 95/20
119/4 119/7 119/7
120/7 140/2 143/10
144/5 146/14 147/1
147/4 147/19 148/13
149/24 150/11 159/6
159/12 160/20 161/5
162/4 167/8
investigative [5] 18/8
29/25 33/15 122/4
124/25
investigator [3]
94/19 129/2 129/3
investigators [12]
12/17 16/6 16/16
19/15 20/5 34/11 46/1
124/22 125/7 138/13
148/16 174/12
invite [2] 47/15 66/25
invited [7] 47/21 50/6
50/18 68/24 87/2 94/4,
122/4
invites [1] 84/1
involved [16] 9/1
9/18 24/20 26/12
73/12 110/19 113/6
143/19 159/12 160/7
160/20 160/24 161/5
161/19 173/4 173/5
involvement [3] 8/23
82/22 112/13
involves [1] 25/25
irrelevant [1] 65/10
is [458]
ISMAIL [25] 1/3 1/8
37/11 87/23 88/5
101/21 104/19 105/6
105/20 107/17 107/24
109/25 111/6 116/24
120/1 137/15 148/7
148/16 156/6 157/11
158/21 162/20 169/7
170/12 178/2
isn't [7] 38/14 98/20
102/4 123/12 158/10
159/23 173/11
issue [58] 3/11 4/25
9/17 16/21 17/19 18/4
23/15 26/18 28/20
36/2 36/5 37/19 40/1
44/3 49/12 52/7 53/7
60/25 61/1 62/3 62/12
62/13 63/8 63/9 64/2
64/2 64/15 64/15
64/16 64/17 66/15
70/17 78/11 78/18
82/19 83/24 86/4
95/15 96/22 104/15
123/20 124/4 124/6
126/21 128/10 131/1
136/7 137/13 138/16
140/16 142/8 142/8
147/13 147/15 148/19)
155/24 159/2 175/14
issued [1] 141/20
issues [55] 2/14 6/20
8/3 10/6 11/4 11/8
13/14 36/25 37/22
37/23 45/20 47/10
47/10 47/13 48/16
48/21 48/23 49/14
55/23 57/14 57/17
59/3 59/7 61/24 62/9
64/18 64/20 65/18
71/6 71/21 72/12 73/1
73/11 73/14 79/9
79/22 85/19 90/1
91/16 94/21 99/5
108/23 152/7 152/7
153/2 153/6 153/16
155/8 155/10 155/13
155/13 156/2 164/1
170/21 172/19
it [412]
it’ [1] 40/12
it’ [1] 134/24
it's [122] 2/25 8/16
8/17 8/17 8/21 9/6
11/18 16/1 16/23 17/1
18/17 20/9 20/14
20/22 20/22 20/24
23/1 24/8 27/25 28/22
28/22 34/7 37/2 40/5
47/9 47/19 49/3 50/3
54/7 55/4 55/18 56/1
60/10 60/25 62/17
63/3 63/5 63/12 65/9
65/11 65/24 69/12
70/5 71/14 72/5 72/14
75/23 76/1 77/14
77/14 78/22 80/20
82/5 82/6 82/7 82/15
84/18 86/2 86/7 86/8
91/14 92/3 92/7 92/21
93/13 94/19 94/23
95/24 97/18 99/4
100/6 102/15 102/17
104/5 108/18 109/4
109/7 112/20 114/10
120/6 121/17 121/17
126/22 126/23 127/9
128/1 138/2 141/13
142/8 143/13 143/13
144/8 144/11 147/17
147/24 149/18 150/10
150/17 150/21 152/2
152/3 152/10 153/1
156/4 156/19 156/21
157/5 157/5 157/6
157/7 157/18 162/10
162/11 164/13 169/9
171/24 173/12 173/20
176/7
item [5] 35/8 35/20
35/25 67/17 149/12
Items [1] 170/14
iterations [1] 158/1
its [15] 11/23 30/21
33/14 49/24 75/5
78/16 93/8 141/7
150/4 157/8 166/7
167/18 167/18 172/15
173/13
itself [8] 20/24 45/20
85/3 85/22 131/19
148/25 149/4 152/25
ITV [8] 11/10 21/9
21/16 21/19 22/5 22/8
23/11 109/17
J
Jacobs [40] 20/20
22/6 22/15 35/12
36/15 50/7 51/3 51/13)
54/10 54/19 58/18
63/4 64/20 66/7 67/13
67/20 73/20 73/24
77/11 78/21 83/12
84/19 86/18 87/1
87/10 87/14 87/25
88/4 92/2 95/24 100/4
102/14 102/18 102/20
102/23 102/24 152/23
176/19 178/6 178/10
Jane [4] 48/10 48/10
78/25 167/15
January [14] 21/14
22/21 24/2 24/4 53/18
72/22 73/17 1414/1
157/15 164/16 164/24
168/4 169/18 174/3
JB [2] 18/22 35/15
Jeff [1] 58/6
jeopardise [1] 93/4
Jo [2] 9/2 10/12
job [10] 35/22 86/25
106/17 115/23 116/2
132/21 133/1 133/2
114/18 118/15 119/25)
133/3 150/13
John [5] 25/23
121/11 121/14 121/20}
166/25
Johnny [2] 88/21
88/23
joined [14] 11/4
14/13 49/22 58/6
58/10 96/9 104/21
105/20 109/4 110/2
163/2
joining [2] 58/3 109/9
journey [4] 62/24
69/12 72/17 97/1
journeys [1] 96/12
JPEG [1] 130/25
jpg [1] 128/9
judgement [2] 151/9
164/4
judicial [2] 29/25
30/10
Julian [1] 9/2
July [7] 5/3 39/9
42/11 42/14 45/9
55/12 97/20
jumped [1] 174/3
June [15] 7/8 7/9
7/15 34/15 34/17 36/4,
36/21 55/12 60/4
61/16 68/11 70/8
71/16 74/21 96/9
junior [2] 77/3 77/9
junk [2] 130/16
130/19
just [84] 5/12 7/3 9/6
9/23 11/5 12/2 17/5
17/19 21/5 23/16
26/17 27/19 27/25
29/19 36/8 36/9 37/2
37/10 37/23 38/3 40/6)
41/18 42/12 45/9 47/2
47/24 50/21 51/12
63/11 65/10 66/16
67/8 67/12 69/8 70/16)
71/2 72/3 72/15 73/25)
78/9 81/4 83/17 86/1
86/2 86/5 91/14 92/7
92/11 94/9 96/17
97/12 97/12 97/13
97/22 98/5 98/20
100/9 100/16 103/12
110/5 111/25 116/13
118/16 119/23 130/22,
139/3 143/23 144/3
147/5 150/20 155/2
156/10 156/21 158/24)
161/13 162/20 167/3
168/22 168/24 169/8
174/5 176/4 176/22
177/4
justice [4] 16/11
28/11 39/16 176/8
justification [1] 4/2
K
Karen [2] 162/15
163/4
Kearsley [1] 76/25
keen [7] 32/11 51/10
97/2 110/19 110/21
141/5 172/14
keep [5] 63/18 78/15
84/3 105/3 141/7
kept [1] 84/13
Kerrison [2] 87/5
87/6
key [11] 12/3 16/20
55/2 69/16 75/5 75/15}
81/3 81/6 82/16 145/3
170/14
kind [14] 15/8 17/21
22/13 28/20 38/11
44/23 47/25 49/25
72/5 78/18 96/25
99/15 108/25 174/3
kinds [2] 21/13 55/23
kiosks [3] 65/2 96/13
127/23
knew [2] 3/6 11/8
know [53] 6/2 6/4
9/16 15/11 15/11
23/22 24/3 24/11 25/6I
25/13 37/4 42/11 48/2I
50/10 80/8 83/9 88/15
88/15 89/19 90/3 90/6I
104/25 105/17 109/11
110/24 111/2 111/3
4111/7 112/10 115/17
117/25 118/15 121/25)
122/13 122/17 132/21
135/19 140/17 144/1
144/4 144/6 145/10
147/7 158/13 160/6
160/21 163/17 164/3
165/7 165/23 166/15
168/5 176/1
knowing [2] 9/16
23/11
knowledge [8] 47/8
103/9 108/17 108/19
109/21 109/23 119/17)
140/19
known [3] 9/19
155/15 160/19
KPMG [2] 11/16
120/6
L
lace [1] 82/1
lack [31] 13/20 13/23
14/8 30/10 34/9 50/14)
57/5 59/1 59/1 64/4
72/25 75/17 76/19
76/23 77/18 79/6
81/11 82/4 82/8 85/11
85/16 93/3 93/5 96/6
97/5 98/11 99/12
(60) investigation... - lackO
L
148/23 159/9 162/8
lacking [3] 79/12
114/7 148/9
language [4] 17/21
44/20 44/25 45/25
large [10] 25/25
61/12 88/5 88/7 89/3
97/17 97/17 100/22
101/12 114/21
last [20] 21/1 44/14
54/16 60/15 65/15
71/20 73/4 77/4 79/2
98/7 99/15 117/2
119/5 155/9 157/1
169/2
Lastly [1] 24/13
late [7] 7/16 58/18
59/13 65/15 146/11
156/19 156/19
later [7] 15/20 29/3
29/6 77/15 123/22
132/20 154/15
latterly [3] 114/3
124/12 160/13
law [6] 13/5 16/7
16/17 18/6 120/14
150/12
lawyer [1] 10/15
lawyers [4] 10/16
10/18 143/23 144/2
layer [1] 136/15
layers [2] 176/2
176/3
LC [1] 70/22
lead [4] 47/16 47/20
138/4 173/1
leader [1] 137/18
leaders [2] 31/10
156/11
leadership [6] 78/8
81/19 81/21 161/3
163/14 163/18
leading [1] 135/3
learn [10] 3/13 8/19
19/8 19/12 31/11
39/13 48/18 99/11
99/17 146/22
learned [3] 18/14
109/8 153/20
learning [1] 106/16
learnings [1] 98/15
learnt [2] 120/19
146/19
learnt’ [1] 14/2
least [5] 4/8 4/23
46/16 79/2 90/1
leave [7] 3/1 77/1
87/15 96/21 125/3
162/24 162/25
leaving [1] 73/8
lack... [4] 104/23
47/23 48/8 53/22 54/6
led [5] 53/18 67/9
7215 139/25 158/4
Lee [4] 10/12
27/4 59/21 73/16
76/24 77/4 78/10
79/10 120/2 163/1
169/21
left-hand [3] 78/10
79/10 120/2
legal [32] 9/14 13/3
20/19 20/21 26/10
26/10 27/15 35/11
44/17 61/3 95/3
125/13 133/8 141/10
141/21 141/21 142/3
142/4 142/6 142/7
144/2 144/5 144/7
144/8 175/14 175/22
legally [1] 44/5
length [2] 128/4
134/13
lengthy [2] 126/6
167/16
less [6] 105/11
106/10 134/3 134/11
151/23 173/5
lesson [2] 98/13
120/18
lessons [3] 31/12
39/14 153/20
let [5] 23/22 24/11
83/9 88/15 125/23
let's [9] 38/15 73/25
84/17 86/12 121/16
140/22 144/10 153/6
166/14
letter [39] 32/1 32/2
32/5 32/12 33/13 34/7
34/8 37/12 37/14
37/20 38/1 38/18
39/23 40/5 41/2 42/13
42/14 42/19 44/14
45/8 45/10 45/11
45/13 47/1 65/7 65/11
121/13 121/17 121/18)
121/24 131/10 132/12)
133/11 141/19 142/12)
144/10 146/10 175/15)
176/17
letters [8] 43/24 46/9
128/15 128/23 130/20)
150/17 150/18 152/9
letters/emails [1]
128/23
level [33] 11/12
37/16 41/22 46/14
47/3 47/8 52/17 61/22
62/16 62/22 62/23
67/5 81/9 81/25 85/11
87/20 90/13 91/1
91/21 105/4 108/6
left [13] 9/9 9/12 9/13
118/16 120/12 121/21
143/10 143/15 143/19)
147/9 148/21 149/8
149/10 150/5 156/7
157/3 157/4 171/22
levels [3] 76/4
155/22 169/14
leveraged [1] 69/25
liability [3] 65/3 65/4
141/16
liaise [3] 13/5 27/22
120/14
liaising [1] 146/1
Liddiard [1] 4/20
lies [1] 72/9
life [5] 4/5 56/2 65/19
107/18 168/20
light [6] 30/21 40/3
43/23 47/3 113/22
152/6
like [63] 5/2 6/7 7/1
32/6 37/14 38/8 45/9
46/10 46/24 47/10
48/7 54/12 55/25
56/10 60/2 64/18 65/1
68/7 72/12 82/6 82/21
83/12 83/24 97/21
97/21 100/22 109/6
114/14 116/2 118/17
119/10 122/19 122/23
125/2 126/4 127/7
128/1 130/22 131/19
133/21 135/13 135/20
136/13 137/7 138/9
140/9 141/6 146/7
146/23 154/21 155/6
162/14 164/8 166/1
170/23 171/25 173/9
174/5 175/7
likelihood [1] 173/21
likely [1] 105/13
limited [12] 12/8 14/2
20/16 26/7 27/24
29/11 68/24 75/20
75/25 106/13 123/24
154/16
line [19] 14/6 19/9
33/2 65/23 69/8 78/15
79/18 121/8 126/20
127/1 149/12 151/21
159/24 172/14 175/2
175/2 175/4 175/4
175/4
lined [1] 157/18
lines [4] 18/6 59/20
78/4 155/2
link [2] 49/6 128/11
list [1] 167/16
listed [1] 157/20
listen [1] 143/19
listened [3] 67/5
105/9 109/14
listening [2] 50/7
84/5
126/23 133/10 141/25)
10/12 11/14 16/2 19/5
little [13] 12/25 46/7
93/12 101/7 110/12
120/9 139/23 148/9
172/17
live [1] 95/16
live
living [1] 173/11
locally [1] 127/24
log [3] 36/12 63/9
138/6
log-in [1] 138/6
log-ins [1] 63/9
logged [1] 145/20
logging [1] 138/6
logs [1] 36/9
London [14] 26/6
26/11 26/22 26/25
27/1 27/16 27/18
29/22 103/24 103/25
150/2 150/6 150/8
151/2
long [12] 6/21 10/15
47/12 53/5 54/17
110/18 111/9 128/5
131/16 138/21 163/5
176/15
long-term [2] 54/17
111/9
longer [1] 75/21
longer-term [1]
75/21
longest [1] 109/25
longevity [1] 61/18
longstanding [2]
98/24 125/19
look [29] 5/2 10/20
11/14 17/9 18/1 18/20}
28/18 29/2 31/6 46/24,
56/10 60/2 74/19
75/10 82/23 83/21
95/12 97/25 121/17
126/17 139/17 140/22}
140/25 146/18 150/18}
151/8 152/9 161/12
165/20
looked [3] 21/5 125/2
130/22
looking [26] 7/19
11/6 19/7 27/17 29/20}
36/4 36/9 37/2 40/6
60/3 67/4 67/4 69/13
70/16 73/14 77/1
77/12 82/12 92/11
98/17 139/6 148/14
148/23 154/6 155/13
175/1
looks [1] 55/25
loop [4] 176/5
Lorna [2] 142/17
173/4
lose [1] 162/11
losing [1] 98/15
loss [6] 89/23 137/25
ATI17 54/15 71/2 86/2
-serving [1] 95/16
138/8 149/4 149/4
149/6
losses [3] 33/21 49/8
141/19
lost [4] 2/16 17/1
85/18 176/5
lot [12] 8/19 42/12
106/25 109/24 118/2
123/4 143/23 144/1
144/2 163/21 164/11
171/25
lots [1] 111/21
love [1] 117/23
low [2] 54/15 76/4
LTIP [1] 54/17
LTIPs [2] 54/11 54/12
lunch [1] 102/4
Lynette [1] 9/2
machine [1] 136/10
machines [1] 64/9
made [28] 4/5 4/16
18/9 40/1 42/1 42/8
61/19 66/10 71/17
74/6 74/11 88/24 93/7
96/6 96/10 107/7
107/20 111/24 124/7
132/10 132/15 139/12)
160/2 160/11 167/8
169/1 171/8 171/8
mail [1] 130/19
main [4] 2/17 58/14
143/7 144/24
mainly [1] 103/24
maintains [1] 30/4
major [4] 4/25 23/14
23/15 98/11
majority [3] 114/25
140/14 149/10
make [31] 3/3 3/7 3/8
32/3 36/7 46/19 49/17
54/24 59/3 59/15
65/19 66/24 71/15
73/2 95/12 95/19
97/10 116/4 131/5
137/20 137/24 137/25)
138/5 138/24 139/2
139/13 139/14 145/1
151/8 163/18 165/22
make-up [1] 49/17
makes [1] 38/11
making [21] 61/23
65/17 79/16 81/25
82/4 93/1 93/5 101/22
106/15 108/13 113/7
113/25 116/3 116/5
138/6 138/16 161/23
164/4 165/17 168/25
176/23
manage [1] 154/24
managed [2] 161/2
162/15
management [6]
(61) lack... - managementO
management... [6]
14/11 50/1 50/18
54/11 82/9 145/3
manager [5] 1/24 6/3
63/16 119/4 119/7
Managers [4] 6/8
14/6 14/7 86/22
managing [4] 78/13
102/3 106/15 156/24
mandate [1] 92/14
manner [3] 56/7
122/18 131/22
manual [2] 153/13
153/21
many [21] 10/15 11/9
21/24 61/18 64/5
64/20 83/3 98/17
100/23 101/11 107/24
109/6 122/12 127/17
142/7 142/7 142/18
151/15 166/17 167/7
176/5
MARC [3] 102/20
102/23 178/10
March [8] 47/16
53/18 65/25 118/9
119/5 119/14 121/18
132/7
March 2022 [1] 47/16}
Mark [1] 157/20
Mark's [1] 158/13
marks [1] 62/23
Marshall [4] 4/12
50/20 84/19 87/4
Martin [10] 4/20
76/25 77/4 77/7 84/22
87/4 87/7 96/19 166/6
167/1
mass [1] 50/23
massive [3] 68/3
77/14 169/2
massively [1] 80/11
Master [1] 128/20
matched [1] 138/25
material [1] 20/17
materiality [1] 99/6
maternity [2] 162/24
162/25
matter [31] 8/23
26/10 26/25 29/4 30/3
30/8 33/6 33/16 39/24
44/24 51/25 52/14
110/5 121/7 123/8
132/6 139/24 140/22
141/14 142/12 144/19
145/7 145/16 145/25
146/9 150/1 151/20
159/7 170/24 173/6
177/12
matters [16] 14/12
19/24 33/19 41/3
41/12 44/17 44/20
46/3 61/4 70/2 76/13
138/15 140/10 143/20)
144/24 146/7
may [27] 2/14 5/9
22/24 29/3 30/18 31/3
32/1 34/16 42/25 44/5)
53/20 71/10 75/9
84/17 84/22 92/2
95/17 96/21 108/4
108/6 112/21 125/3
125/4 125/11 136/15
160/7 160/25
maybe [14] 8/17
18/25 24/8 31/20
31/21 37/6 60/12 61/9
63/6 93/12 122/17
127/20 127/22 163/5
McEwan [1] 162/16
me [95] 1/5 1/17 2/1
2/2 2/15 2/25 3/16
3/22 4/7 4/11 10/2
10/13 11/21 14/24
17/24 19/7 22/13
23/11 23/13 24/11
27/8 27/10 35/20 36/6
37/21 37/23 38/1 38/7,
42/16 48/2 49/19 51/4
56/11 56/21 63/3
63/11 64/13 70/6 80/5)
83/9 84/4 86/23 86/24
88/12 88/13 88/15
91/24 92/6 93/12 97/9)
99/9 99/13 99/24
100/7 102/11 107/4
109/3 112/24 118/12
118/14 118/17 118/21
118/22 121/1 123/13
123/13 123/18 127/24I
129/5 129/15 129/17
130/8 131/10 131/18
135/8 135/22 139/3
139/13 139/14 148/12)
150/24 152/4 158/2
158/4 161/5 162/19
164/2 165/24 166/14
170/23 171/17 174/6
175/15 175/16 176/23)
meals [1] 50/23
mean [9] 46/11 49/16
53/15 102/3 106/24
144/1 165/6 174/5
174/12
meaning [1] 113/17
meaningful [1] 41/25
means [2] 12/12
97/14
meant [1] 175/5
media [3] 50/13
86/19 115/7
meet [4] 6/11 7/25
42/16 92/16
meeting [46] 21/14
21/19 22/6 22/17 35/3
35/9 45/16 47/16
55/12 58/18 65/25
68/11 68/12 70/7
70/12 70/13 71/11
75/7 77/21 83/8 97/20
107/13 118/13 122/5
122/7 122/17 124/20
124/25 125/1 125/2
125/10 126/5 126/8
126/10 132/24 133/19}
134/21 135/11 136/6
136/17 143/2 167/5
167/6 169/20 170/1
170/15
meetings [9] 2/10
54/16 77/22 123/15
123/17 134/20 148/1
175/6 175/7
Mel [7] 1/24 139/25
140/3 140/8 140/20
140/20 141/17
Mel's [1] 140/3
Melanie [2] 140/25
146/2
member [9] 48/20
51/16 53/23 55/21
62/16 62/17 62/19
63/14 112/7
members [26] 2/24
19/3 21/10 21/16
22/11 24/9 31/22
35/13 49/13 51/4 75/7
79/12 92/17 92/18
94/1 94/3 98/24 105/6
107/2 110/2 112/6
113/10 115/24 117/5
151/13 156/12
memo [2] 142/24
143/1
memoire [1] 165/7
memory [13] 78/12
78/25 79/7 85/17
87/17 98/11 99/8
99/12 104/18 104/23
105/3 110/4 171/2
men [1] 166/25
mentality [1] 38/4
mention [2] 18/23
97/11
mentioned [13] 2/10
2/16 21/20 41/12 42/4
49/12 71/10 71/12
86/17 97/12 98/7
116/18 117/4
mentioning [1] 97/9
mess [4] 71/8 71/17
72/4 165/11
message [2] 167/24
172/8
messages [1] 155/22
messaging [1]
147/22
met [7] 55/17 67/13
105/6 140/7 140/8
169/16 169/19
metres [1] 128/5
metric [2] 54/22
112/11
metrics [2] 55/2 55/6
microphone [1]
102/16
mid [3] 75/8 149/17
152/15
mid-afternoon [2]
149/17 152/15
middle [3] 50/1
120/23 136/10
might [15] 49/6 55/20
56/14 89/15 106/2
118/23 122/14 122/14}
12716 143/18 147/13
148/25 152/14 158/6
161/1
million [9] 58/11
58/17 58/19 59/14
65/4 71/18 72/16
72/21 75/25
mind [4] 70/14 92/19
114/11 139/22
minimal [1] 10/5
minimum [2] 12/18
17/7
Minister [1] 107/13
minority [1] 47/24
minute [2] 36/13
112/1
minutes [11] 36/1
36/18 47/12 65/24
66/2 67/12 70/7 76/10
132/9 132/14 132/18
minutiae [1] 151/18
miscarriages [1]
39/16
misconduct [2] 18/2
119/20
misinformation [1]
35/21
miskeys [1] 41/4
misleading [1] 145/1
mistake [2] 22/2
95/12
mistakes [3] 59/4
73/2 126/8
misunderstand [1]
38/7
misunderstandings
[2] 32/13 126/8
misusing [1] 17/16
mix [1] 142/8
Mladenov [1] 58/7
Mm [8] 108/10
113/19 136/22 149/7
163/24 164/17 164/22)
168/14
Mm-hm [1] 164/17
model [3] 12/5 12/11
67/24
modern [1] 154/25
moment [8] 56/14
86/5 139/18 150/19
152/10 152/11 152/14)
157/5
moments [1] 128/17
Monday [1] 7/10
money [4] 26/1 56/5
63/5 68/6
monitor [1] 145/21
monitoring [2] 13/8
13/23
month [9] 29/6 47/23
50/5 84/9 84/17 90/1
134/20 154/15 168/4
monthly [4] 149/12
months [9] 53/23
60/15 77/15 79/2
96/10 110/5 155/9
176/12 176/17
moral [1] 56/11
morale [1] 54/14
morally [1] 24/23
more [43] 4/5 11/5
13/18 15/1 22/1 31/21
43/25 47/10 47/17
53/9 58/8 58/22 58/24I
61/10 66/19 67/12
74/5 77/13 85/2 91/20
93/4 97/7 100/10
105/13 105/23 106/1
110/10 110/12 111/7
116/22 117/5 122/8
134/3 143/11 144/3
147/5 147/23 149/16
156/11 158/14 160/17)
173/20 175/7
Morley [7] 119/3
120/23 121/4 129/20
132/4 133/5 136/19
morning [6] 1/5
47/11 47/12 56/15
160/2 170/13
Morrisons [1] 97/16
most [3] 81/7 134/2
172/18
motivations [1] 3/3
mounting [1] 122/23
move [15] 9/21 10/3
56/23 57/7 68/7 72/17
77/20 99/8 99/9
108/19 118/3 157/9
164/6 164/8 164/11
moved [2] 158/20
168/25
moving [10] 3/9 4/18
82/6 83/20 84/16
158/21 161/13 162/5
162/6 164/10
MR [163] 1/4 1/8 8/23)
8/25 9/9 20/20 22/6
22/15 23/1 23/2 24/25
25/2 25/13 25/23 26/9I
26/17 26/21 28/25
29/1 31/15 34/16
35/12 35/12 35/24
(62) management... - MRO
Mo
MR... [139] 36/15
36/19 37/4 37/6 37/7
37/8 37/10 37/11
37/12 37/14 37/14
37/20 38/1 39/11 40/8)
40/12 42/10 44/10
45/11 50/7 51/3 51/8
51/13 52/3 54/10
54/19 58/18 63/4
64/20 66/7 66/22
67/13 67/20 68/18
70/9 70/11 70/13
70/14 71/4 73/8 73/16)
73/20 73/24 77/11
77/16 78/21 80/24
82/25 83/12 84/19
86/18 87/1 87/10
87/14 87/23 87/25
88/4 88/5 95/24 100/4
100/5 100/13 101/21
102/3 102/12 102/14
102/18 102/21 102/24
104/19 105/6 105/20
107/17 107/24 109/25)
110/9 110/14 111/6
116/24 118/18 118/20
120/1 120/23 121/4
121/18 121/23 129/20}
132/4 132/13 133/5
133/12 136/19 137/15}
142/13 148/7 148/16
151/12 151/15 152/23}
156/6 157/11 158/7
158/21 162/20 164/19}
165/13 166/9 166/12
166/13 166/16 167/8
167/25 168/2 168/6
168/9 168/10 169/7
169/9 169/16 169/24
170/12 170/16 170/18
171/3 171/6 171/13
171/21 171/23 171/23)
171/24 171/24 172/24}
176/19 176/21 177/9
177/13 178/4 178/6
178/12
Mr Bartlett [13] 23/1
23/2 24/25 25/2 25/23
26/17 26/21 40/8
40/12 121/18 121/23
132/13 133/12
Mr Bates [1] 168/6
Mr Blake [7] 37/10
100/13 102/12 102/21
176/21 177/9 178/12
Mr Borkett [1] 77/16
Mr Brander [2] 8/25
9/9
Mr Brander's [1]
8/23
Mr Cameron [1]
66/22
Mr Eldridge [1] 158/7
Mr Elliot [1] 102/3
Mr Foat [2] 118/18
118/20
Mr Greenhow [1]
177/13
Mr Ismail [23] 1/8
37/11 87/23 88/5
101/21 104/19 105/6
105/20 107/17 107/24}
109/25 111/6 116/24
120/1 137/15 148/7
148/16 156/6 157/11
158/21 162/20 169/7
170/12
Mr Jacobs [35] 20/20)
22/6 22/15 35/12
36/15 50/7 51/3 51/13)
54/10 54/19 58/18
63/4 64/20 66/7 67/13
67/20 73/20 73/24
77/11 78/21 83/12
86/18 87/1 87/10
87/14 87/25 88/4
95/24 100/4 102/14
102/18 102/24 152/23)
176/19 178/6
Mr Morley [6] 120/23
121/4 129/20 132/4
133/5 136/19
Mr Oldnall [1] 25/13
Mr Owen [1] 42/10
Mr Patterson [4]
28/25 37/14 39/11
151/12
Mr Railton [7] 35/24
36/19 37/7 68/18 70/9
71/4 100/5
Mr Railton's [1]
70/13
Mr Read [21] 29/1
31/15 34/16 37/4 37/6
37/8 37/14 151/15
166/12 166/13 166/16)
167/8 168/2 168/9
168/10 171/3 171/6
171/13 171/21 171/23)
171/24
Mr Read's [3] 37/12
37/20 38/1
Mr Roberts [3] 169/9
169/16 169/24
Mr Staunton [13]
73/8 73/16 110/9
110/14 164/19 165/13)
166/9 167/25 170/16
170/18 171/23 171/24I
172/24
Mr Staunton's [1]
142/13
Mr Taylor [1] 82/25
Mr Tidswell [4] 35/12
52/3 70/11 70/14
Mr Walton [1] 26/9
Mr Woodley [3]
44/10 45/11 51/8
Ms [3] 52/20 53/6
141/9
Ms Davies [2] 52/20
53/6
Ms Park [1] 141/9
much [23] 1/6 1/7
16/19 17/2 56/17
66/24 68/5 68/6 79/18
101/22 103/11 106/2
108/1 134/20 136/12
136/13 138/25 152/19}
168/23 175/7 176/23
177/19 177/14
multiple [5] 30/9
78/13 101/13 139/3
154/7
mum [1] 99/9
must [10] 38/12
38/13 38/16 45/5
48/23 129/11 129/13
129/16 161/22 175/6
mutually [1] 146/3
my [112] 1/22 2/16
2/19 2/25 3/2 3/6 7/15
10/9 10/10 11/6 17/24]
18/22 19/12 19/16
20/8 23/13 23/19
24/23 26/22 27/12
28/4 29/8 35/19 35/22
39/17 44/15 45/23
47/19 48/22 50/3
50/19 51/3 53/16 54/4
54/5 54/5 54/25 55/11
56/1 56/2 56/3 56/9
56/11 56/11 56/11
63/24 71/10 72/14
73/9 82/17 86/21
86/21 86/23 87/23
88/18 92/6 96/4 97/7
97/18 99/9 99/18
99/24 101/18 102/16
105/22 109/16 113/23
117/25 119/17 121/20
122/9 123/12 123/16
124/8 124/10 125/19
127/19 129/16 130/16
130/19 130/21 132/21
133/3 133/23 134/14
135/18 135/19 135/22
137/9 137/16 137/17
137/24 138/7 138/8
138/9 139/22 140/6
140/19 146/23 146/24
148/12 153/20 155/4
159/16 162/7 167/13
171/2 171/6 1714/7
173/2 173/25 176/20
myself [35] 5/17
20/20 22/5 35/12 48/1
54/10 54/19 64/19
67/13 67/20 73/20
73/23 77/11 78/21
78/24 83/2 83/12
86/18 87/1 87/10
87/14 104/19 105/6
107/17 107/24 109/25}
116/24 121/11 123/24)
125/10 140/6 141/16
146/19 156/6 158/21
N
name [6] 75/10
102/22 121/20 124/3
157/7 158/10
named [1] 159/24
narrative [2] 40/8
97/24
National [1] 125/12
nationally [1] 168/38
nations [1] 16/8
natural [1] 134/3
Naturally [2] 33/10
44/16
NBIT [16] 59/9 59/11
59/23 60/1 60/12
61/20 63/25 64/22
66/6 66/9 66/18 66/23
67/6 71/18 72/16
156/14
near [2] 6/9 61/22
nearly [2] 162/1
163/5
necessarily [5] 6/7
67/11 95/18 108/15
113/8
necessary [3] 31/12
33/17 39/25
necessity [2] 63/3
63/6
NED [7] 10/10 23/13
35/23 49/21 76/22
97/9 157/23
NED-only [1] 76/22
NEDs [13] 10/17
46/13 71/23 73/22
77/2 87/9 96/24 98/16
105/8 110/1 165/22
165/24 166/2
need [30] 4/15 6/22
26/6 27/7 28/7 35/4
41/13 46/15 49/8
52/15 55/6 55/7 62/11
64/5 69/5 83/2 88/15
96/11 100/9 106/1
106/12 107/16 115/21
127/10 147/22 152/8
156/22 161/7 168/24
173/21
needed [5] 23/15
70/24 71/4 141/23
172/14
needing [1] 27/22
needs [13] 8/19
52/23 62/7 71/12 78/3)
84/4 98/23 104/24
108/18 147/20 156/23}
157/8 173/13
negotiated [1]
103/20
neither [3] 6/8 40/21
50/6
nervous [1] 135/21
network [2] 64/22
80/7
neutral [2] 20/24
94/19
never [21] 9/7 9/11
9/14 14/24 19/6 31/13}
38/17 39/16 49/18
50/18 90/24 123/13
125/2 130/20 138/1
140/19 140/20 143/11
155/25 174/19 176/4
new [28] 24/9 46/16
56/23 56/24 57/24
58/2 59/17 59/22
59/23 60/7 60/21
61/13 61/17 61/20
62/9 63/25 65/21 68/2
69/12 69/21 71/18
72/22 87/9 87/9 92/6
96/15 117/3 157/6
next [25] 7/11 15/21
22/22 23/1 23/22
27/19 31/1 39/18 60/1
60/12 63/17 67/2 83/5
83/22 84/17 91/24
95/13 105/8 137/1
138/13 140/13 174/3
174/25 175/14 176/16)
NFSP [5] 101/2
116/19 117/6 117/11
117/25
Nice [1] 59/22
Nick [17] 4/13 4/14
4/14 4/16 5/5 42/15
45/15 45/17 45/24
107/3 109/12 151/12
166/3 166/14 167/6
168/1 170/21
Nigel [3] 92/2 111/12
112/3
night [1] 165/2
nine [1] 127/19
nine-year [1] 127/19
no [107] 4/2 7/22
8/24 9/4 9/11 10/14
11/5 11/21 11/25
12/13 13/8 13/9 13/11
13/22 13/25 14/10
14/15 15/18 15/18
16/4 16/14 16/19
18/22 18/23 20/4 22/2I
22/18 22/18 22/18
25/5 25/7 25/7 25/19
25/20 26/20 29/5
31/17 31/20 35/13
36/6 36/16 36/24
41/23 42/9 44/12
44/13 45/4 46/17 47/9)
(63) MR... -noO
N
53/5 59/11 62/1 63/4
63/7 64/18 65/13
87/16 88/12 93/16
98/16 101/5 105/18
110/25 112/15 113/7
120/5 123/10 123/17
124/11 124/15 126/2
126/19 130/2 130/18
131/24 132/19 133/8
148/12 149/14 154/4
166/1 166/17 171/4
nobody [3] 2/22 38/7
48/6
noise [4] 17/2 86/3
86/4 88/16
noisy [1] 86/2
NomCo [1] 78/16
Nomination [1]
111/20
non [41] 11/19 28/13
76/9 78/13 78/19
79/14 79/15 79/21
82/25 83/23 84/6
84/21 104/6 104/9
104/21 106/7 106/9
107/2 107/22 110/10
4111/1 111/17 114/22
115/20 116/2 123/16
124/1 124/2 131/14
142/17 142/22 143/4
144/25 150/25 157/21
158/14 158/17 165/9
165/14 167/5 176/1
non-exec [1] 123/16
non-execs [4] 104/21
107/2 111/17 165/14
non-executive [22]
76/9 78/13 78/19
79/14 79/15 79/21
83/23 84/6 84/21
104/9 106/7 106/9
110/10 111/1 114/22
124/2 142/17 142/22
143/4 157/21 158/14
165/9
non-provision [1]
28/13
none [2] 4/9 127/23
nor [4] 27/2 40/21
106/14 141/19
norm [2] 71/25 147/8
normal [4] 20/13
122/18 136/5 147/8
normally [2] 89/3
no... [58] 48/12 53/3
76/16 81/1 84/15 86/4
118/17 118/25 119/21
133/17 138/18 138/21
142/25 142/25 144/18}
154/12 154/13 154/13)
154/21 155/23 161/10}
173/17 174/20 175/12)
122/13
North [2] 103/24
103/25
not [211]
not/would [1] 43/2
note [8] 19/21 39/23
noted [2] 66/5 66/23
notes [7] 111/24
115/8 126/7 126/19
134/9 134/12 134/20
nothing [4] 2/20 83/4
115/11 155/6
nothing's [1] 22/12
notice [1] 84/1
notification [2] 7/16
8/15
noting [5] 16/21
November [3] 50/11
80/6 86/17
now [68] 5/17 9/16
9/21 11/6 20/21 22/21
31/14 32/17 35/19
38/6 38/20 39/9 51/8
51/10 55/5 58/11
58/21 59/21 60/9 67/1
68/5 68/7 69/14 70/2
70/9 74/5 77/5 77/15
77/18 83/21 89/11
95/14 102/17 103/23
110/4 111/10 113/6
117/18 118/4 119/10
129/21 132/25 133/18)
137/4 138/3 142/2
146/1 146/4 146/7
151/24 152/24 153/20)
156/25 156/25 157/1
157/9 158/21 159/17
159/20 160/12 160/13}
161/2 162/6 162/15
163/4 164/14 169/10
177/7
nuanced [1] 27/8
number [44] 6/20
13/12 21/10 32/3 42/7)
52/3 57/2 59/7 61/12
62/8 63/12 68/7 76/3
76/5 76/16 76/19
77/20 78/2 82/8 86/20
86/20 88/6 88/7 88/8
91/1 95/4 95/5 97/17
101/18 103/3 105/14
114/21 118/6 130/1
131/23 153/2 154/11
157/11 157/25 159/11
161/15 170/20 175/24}
176/2
number 1 [2] 86/20
95/4
number 2 [4] 76/3
76/5 86/20 95/5
Number 3 [1] 76/16
101/21 116/17 164/13)
164/23 166/21 170/22)
16/24 20/1 33/2 148/6
Number 4 [1] 76/19
number 5 [2] 77/20
82/8
Number 6 [1] 78/2
numbers [2] 98/5
143/24
numerous [4] 49/20
[e)
53/19
objective [1] 26/24
objectives [1] 75/21
obligation [1] 133/8
observations [5]
97/7
observed [1] 14/16
observer [1] 112/8
obsession [1] 53/14
obstacle [1] 4/25
obstructed [1] 51/20
obtain [3] 43/13
129/4 154/8
obtained [1] 73/3
obtaining [3] 41/19
73/7 111/15
obvious [3] 28/17
40/15 147/5
obviously [12] 23/11
26/2 60/19 73/14
73/16 77/8 92/20
115/19 124/8 132/20
139/16 163/18
occasion [4] 7/16
79/23 133/9 139/7
occasions [5] 49/20
54/15 63/6 64/19 72/8
occurred [7] 3/14
39/16 127/13 138/20
138/20 140/11 166/13
occurrence [1]
128/24
October [8] 18/22
25/2 35/3 35/8 73/15
80/16 80/19 96/18
October '23 [1] 73/15
odd [1] 159/4
odds [1] 147/13
off [7] 3/1 67/8
101/19 153/22 165/15}
175/22 176/1
offboarded [1] 105/1
offer [4] 112/23
112/25 147/12 171/13
offered [3] 112/23
128/24 171/10
offering [2] 24/1 26/4
office [187]
Office's [13] 8/12
11/17 12/5 32/14
32/22 43/13 44/7
numbered [1] 136/12
54/15 64/19 72/8
obfuscation [1]
11/6 19/13 53/16 75/7
75/20 77/14 122/5
133/13 136/20 154/1
officer [9] 23/4 47/21
48/12 48/13 93/19
93/20 93/22 162/17
163/16
officer's [1] 43/17
officers [3] 136/15
162/12 162/23
offices [5] 42/15
119/9 122/5 124/10
137/18
officials [1] 93/10
often [8] 12/23 14/6
113/17 120/7 151/7
153/13 154/12 157/6
oh [5] 36/13 48/2
64/8 72/19 86/4
oil [1] 82/6
okay [15] 21/4 21/7
22/14 50/20 63/19
93/10 95/20 96/3 97/3)
97/12 101/6 109/8
174/21 175/10 176/18}
old [1] 96/16
oldest [1] 104/21
Oldnall [3] 25/13
25/13 27/8
omissions [1] 41/5
on [283]
once [16] 1/17 5/7
7/24 38/20 47/21 51/9)
70/4 84/2 88/18 89/8
90/1 90/21 98/3 130/4
166/2 171/22
one [61] 1/14 2/18
2/24 2/24 3/2 8/5 9/23)
21/20 26/22 43/15
43/25 47/5 47/11
47/15 53/9 60/7 60/8
60/8 61/1 63/11 63/15
63/24 66/23 67/13
68/3 68/18 69/4 69/17,
71/22 71/23 81/7
85/19 88/23 95/1 96/6
99/5 100/16 106/11
111/12 114/10 122/11
123/17 125/2 125/21
128/3 130/21 137/16
140/12 142/16 148/12)
149/16 153/16 156/1
158/24 159/4 161/1
162/24 162/25 163/2
177/12 177/3
ongoing [11] 10/6
25/12 25/25 30/11
81/20 84/21 94/14
106/14 159/5 159/7
162/1
online [1] 103/17
only [23] 4/10 32/23
38/10 41/24 43/15
47/11 47/14 47/21
72/21 76/22 91/2
96/16 98/3 102/12
115/2 115/24 115/25
150/10 154/18 159/20)
160/15 163/11 167/5
onto [10] 26/16 56/24)
83/22 107/16 110/22
119/23 137/20 138/5
152/25 165/3
onwards [1] 3/10
open [6] 4/22 7/19
26/24 36/10 112/6
144/21
opened [1] 59/24
opening [4] 5/24 6/9
8/5 88/21
openly [1] 107/3
operate [5] 4/19 64/1
104/8 144/7 155/19
operated [3] 7/13
41/3 155/4
operates [1] 107/8
operating [3] 7/9
106/1 156/8
operation [1] 76/7
operational [3] 66/9
142/8 147/4
operations [3] 69/19
140/6 146/2
Operative [1] 97/16
opinion [11] 39/20
40/19 40/21 40/22
42/20 42/23 43/3 44/8
114/3 131/5 162/7
opportunity [5] 66/3
83/18 125/6 129/21
146/8
opposed [2] 85/13
160/22
option [3] 17/8 17/9
66/22
optional [3] 135/12
147/25 148/2
or [140] 2/14 2/15 5/4
7/2 9/10 11/3 13/2
13/4 13/4 13/12 14/12)
14/13 17/15 17/15
17/16 17/17 17/21
18/2 18/7 19/3 20/5
22/13 23/2 25/1 27/13
27/14 28/9 29/15
29/16 29/25 31/4
32/19 32/24 33/1 36/1
37/15 38/8 38/11
38/14 39/1 40/24 41/5I
43/1 44/18 44/19 47/1
50/13 51/11 54/12
55/12 59/9 63/6 64/17
66/2 70/23 74/15
74/16 89/4 89/4 90/6
91/18 92/24 93/11
95/14 99/23 100/20
108/9 110/5 110/20
111/24 112/18 113/1
114/6 114/8 115/7
(64) no... - orO
[e)
or... [65] 115/9
119/20 120/11 120/13)
120/13 122/7 123/13
125/1 125/4 125/4
125/12 125/13 125/13)
126/8 126/19 127/7
127/18 127/24 128/9
134/24 135/12 135/12)
139/15 140/9 140/18
143/14 143/17 144/8
145/1 145/2 145/5
145/11 146/15 147/6
147/7 148/1 149/20
150/20 151/2 151/13
151/19 154/14 154/18
154/21 156/2 156/3
157/3 159/9 159/16
159/18 160/6 161/11
161/14 161/25 162/11
163/17 166/5 167/20
168/20 170/12 173/7
174/18 176/2 176/12
176/13
order [22] 4/18 5/13
5/20 7/25 13/23 29/7
59/2 59/15 61/19 62/6
62/7 99/3 99/8 99/10
105/3 125/8 126/19
127/20 127/22 129/12
129/25 133/9
organisation [42] 2/7
3/8 4/7 4/9 6/23 6/24
23/14 34/9 36/8 38/2
45/6 48/4 49/18 49/23
49/24 55/9 73/12
75/21 79/7 92/21 93/3
97/10 99/5 99/11
104/23 113/4 125/22
131/17 156/10 159/13)
159/15 159/22 160/5
160/8 160/10 160/22
160/23 161/10 162/12)
163/10 173/10 173/14
organisations [9]
31/11 97/15 97/16
101/12 116/21 117/20)
151/16 151/22 151/25}
organise [2] 23/24
51/19
organised [4] 1/22
50/5 50/17 84/9
orientated [1] 113/24
original [7] 8/8 45/16
61/6 106/3 127/15
132/12 157/22
originally [2] 80/22
157/17
other [48] 5/19 5/19
5/24 8/13 9/23 10/17
29/24 33/19 34/13
35/12 39/3 41/2 44/21
49/9 50/13 57/6 65/8
73/6 73/10 85/1 85/21
95/13 98/16 99/7
104/4 107/2 108/9
111/18 116/16 117/20)
119/15 119/20 124/12
125/21 134/22 136/17)
142/4 144/21 145/3
146/13 146/15 147/11
151/2 156/9 159/11
others [6] 116/2
162/20 167/9 167/14
168/9 168/17
otherwise [1] 38/17
ought [2] 91/18 93/11
our [63] 6/23 6/23
6/24 7/7 15/9 17/7
22/2 24/13 31/10
32/10 32/23 38/15
42/15 45/5 45/24
46/16 47/5 47/11
48/19 48/24 50/15
55/5 56/14 64/9 67/21
67/22 72/23 75/4 75/6
80/16 84/2 87/15
87/25 96/11 96/12
96/20 109/3 114/18
115/22 117/16 125/8
126/5 134/23 137/21
141/2 141/24 142/22
143/4 145/7 146/6
149/17 150/11 150/12)
150/25 152/14 153/21
153/22 155/7 158/22
161/1 163/18 167/2
172/16
out [55] 4/20 6/6 6/17
13/14 34/7 35/23 56/8)
56/11 57/2 68/15
68/24 69/3 75/15
77/15 79/16 82/13
83/3 86/20 86/23
87/12 90/7 100/19
100/20 104/4 106/25
109/16 111/25 114/13)
118/17 119/13 122/21
123/9 123/11 123/22
124/12 127/25 131/7
132/20 133/9 133/11
140/2 145/23 147/1
147/8 148/15 153/2
153/19 154/20 155/8
160/14 163/13 166/15)
167/18 171/13 173/20)
outcome [3] 28/17
40/16 146/4
outcomes [1] 28/10
outlining [1] 55/2
output [3] 75/6 78/16
168/8
Outreach [2] 7/12
713
outside [3] 71/25
76/8 89/15
165/22 171/15 174/24,
outstanding [1]
130/1
13/9 13/11 13/18
13/20 13/23 14/5
23/19 31/6 32/21
33/24 41/9 43/25
53/22 60/15 68/22
69/16 71/18 74/21
76/24 78/15 80/13
85/6 85/9 88/2 97/23
99/15 103/23 104/13
113/23 122/9 124/4
127/18 139/24 151/1
156/20 157/12 157/18
161/15 164/1 169/2
169/8 174/9 174/21
174/22 174/23 175/3
overadjustment [1]
143/17
overall [5] 13/8 13/10)
62/24 65/22 176/11
overarching [2]
12/13 13/20
overcome [1] 152/8
overcomplicated [1]
8/17
overhaul [1] 69/5
overnight [2] 3/19
65/3
oversight [11] 12/8
13/20 34/9 59/2 85/17,
91/20 94/20 95/5
106/2 108/8 108/15
oversight/support [1]
59/2
overspends [1] 69/6
overstate [1] 28/6
overview [1] 11/12
overwatch [1] 94/7
owed [2] 145/5
163/21
Owen [2] 42/10
151/23
own [19] 1/22 12/7
44/8 54/4 86/21 86/21
86/23 87/25 90/4
109/16 137/8 138/6
142/2 142/10 146/25
149/22 150/4 152/4
153/21
owner [1] 89/3
ownership [3] 53/10
78/3 145/4
P
pace [7] 82/4 93/3
93/5 162/3 162/9
162/18 162/21
pack [3] 10/20 68/11
81/25
page [74] 10/22 12/1
13/18 14/5 17/4 19/19
22/22 22/22 22/25
over [48] 12/8 12/14
25/10 26/16 31/6
32/21 33/24 42/18
43/25 48/9 52/20
52/21 57/1 57/1 66/1
68/14 69/16 70/15
70/16 74/21 75/10
75/15 78/7 79/8 80/13)
81/2 83/22 83/22
84/18 85/6 85/7 85/8
103/5 103/5 114/19
119/2 119/2 119/2
119/25 120/22 120/23}
124/4 126/13 126/15
126/22 128/13 129/19}
129/22 131/2 132/3
133/4 140/24 153/2
155/8 155/8 157/16
157/19 157/19 164/13}
164/13 165/4 165/25
166/9 166/18 169/8
169/8 170/4
page 1 [3] 85/8
129/19 131/2
page 10 [2] 12/1
119/25
page 109 [1] 68/14
page 16 [1] 78/7
page 19 [3] 79/8
155/8 155/8
page 2 [3] 48/9 132/3
140/24
page 29 [1] 103/5
page 3 [3] 25/10
126/13 128/13
page 39 [1] 114/19
page 4 [5] 17/4 70/15:
70/16 164/13 164/13
page 43 [1] 75/10
page 5 [6] 66/1 119/2
119/2 120/22 120/23
153/2
page 6 [3] 19/19
157/16 157/19
page 7 [1] 81/2
page 8 [1] 75/15
page 9 [1] 57/1
pages [2] 10/11
175/3
paid [3] 54/13 54/14
159/22
panel [1] 158/11
paper [7] 16/12 16/21
16/24 19/21 20/1 33/2
96/18
papers [6] 35/1 53/19)
76/10 111/10 113/12
113/23
paperwork [1]
119/15
paragraph [23] 1/12
3/10 7/11 10/4 12/22
27/19 31/6 39/18 43/6)
43/25 47/14 53/12
58/9 62/10 91/7 92/12
106/4 110/8 113/12
118/8 134/17 135/25
153/1
paragraph 125 [1]
91/7
paragraph 17 [1]
153/1
paragraph 183 [1]
58/9
paragraph 185 [1]
62/10
paragraph 19 [1]
118/8
paragraph 207 [1]
3/10
paragraph 24 [1]
135/25
paragraph 25 [1]
47/14
paragraph 35 [1]
106/4
Paragraph 43 [1]
10/4
paragraph 45 [1]
113/12
paragraph 51 [1]
1/12
paragraph 55 [1]
110/8
paragraph 68 [1]
53/12
parameters [1] 144/6)
parcel [1] 65/7
parity [1] 147/23
Park [7] 139/25
140/20 140/20 141/1
141/9 141/17 146/2
part [33] 5/10 10/9
22/2 25/18 54/25 55/4I
60/9 64/25 66/18 67/2I
72/16 75/11 82/16
84/2 84/12 87/3 88/9
104/18 106/23 115/24}
124/16 138/22 139/1
141/24 148/15 148/23)
150/21 156/10 160/4
165/22 167/6 174/22
175/10
Participants [1]
173/17
particular [25] 3/11
8/15 8/21 16/12 20/2
21/5 26/18 29/17
29/19 60/22 64/15
70/12 74/10 81/17
82/13 107/11 107/21
1414/8 114/11 117/4
159/24 159/25 173/7
176/9 176/14
particularly [4] 40/3
48/20 92/9 168/10
parties [6] 32/19
32/25 41/9 44/21
116/23 117/15
(65) or... - partiesO
P
partner [2] 69/23
151/16
partners [10] 1/22
47/5 96/21 97/2 97/13)
97/15 97/19 97/23
98/1 100/22
partnership [2] 131/1
147/13
parts [5] 14/21 74/1
74/8 108/20 153/18
party [6] 19/17 29/24
38/20 139/21 147/11
171/9
pass [2] 27/16
151/10
passage [1] 39/11
passages [2] 7/3
42/13
passed [7] 3/24 4/8
7/24 38/3 139/24
151/1 174/8
passing [2] 8/10
123/8
past [37] 15/3 18/15
19/8 19/12 23/12 34/4
38/22 56/5 59/4 85/9
99/14 99/17 108/5
109/3 109/6 114/14
123/1 123/2 123/7
128/22 128/24 129/21
130/12 131/19 135/20)
143/18 146/21 157/9
157/15 159/1 159/13
160/7 160/8 160/10
160/15 161/9 161/15
Patel [1] 49/11
patience [1] 146/8
Patterson [4] 28/25
37/14 39/11 151/12
Paul [1] 4/20
Paula [1] 97/8
Pause [1] 19/9
pausing [3] 17/19
41/18 167/3
pay [5] 53/22 53/25
54/2 64/8 159/21
paying [1] 113/10
payment [2] 54/18
141/6
payments [2] 57/20
64/9
pdf [3] 126/15 126/22
175/3
Penny [1] 177/6
penultimate [2] 78/9
119/2
people [42] 6/23 9/15:
10/16 21/21 22/4
24/22 47/21 48/13
49/9 52/12 53/8 67/25
78/2 80/8 98/23 108/3,
109/7 110/4 117/22
132/21 135/6 137/5
150/12 159/6 159/15
159/19 160/6 160/13
160/19 160/20 160/22!
162/12 162/15 162/17,
162/23 163/10 163/16)
163/17 163/23 166/22)
171/12 173/11
per [14] 37/2 54/2
54/5 54/6 59/20 77/14
89/22 89/23 89/23
89/24 95/22 114/22
128/23 154/4
per cent [1] 54/5
perceived [4] 55/16
75/19 107/18 107/19
perception [1] 79/13
perfectly [1] 176/7
performance [3] 82/9!
163/3 170/9
perhaps [13] 22/24
25/21 27/13 105/23
105/25 110/6 119/22
128/4 139/21 158/15
160/22 163/6 163/22
period [10] 22/21
50/21 63/23 127/11
127/13 127/18 127/19)
167/17 175/12 176/15)
permanent [1] 99/3
permission [1] 126/4
person [8] 24/10
27/11 27/15 36/11
99/10 117/3 138/4
163/1
personal [1] 123/15
personalisation [1]
130/19
personalities [1]
143/24
personally [3] 124/9
135/7 156/1
Personnel' [1] 145/3
perspective [7]
12/24 19/16 67/18
85/3 120/8 144/20
147/4
Phase [6] 8/25 46/5
51/11 61/5 61/9 177/3
Phase 2 [2] 61/5 61/9
Phase 3 [1] 177/3
Phase 4 [1] 8/25
Phase 5 [1] 51/11
Phase 7 [1] 46/5
phases [1] 41/18
Phoenix [9] 114/15
157/9 159/1 160/8
160/13 160/15 160/16)
160/18 164/9
Phoenix/Past [1]
160/8
phone [1] 131/21
phoned [1] 123/13
physical [1] 65/5
physically [1] 154/9
picked [1] 37/7
picture [2] 113/17
114/4
pie [1] 141/24
piece [2] 22/9 85/1
Pineapple [2] 142/24
164/10
place [19] 18/19 22/4
23/17 24/21 24/24
31/25 44/24 60/10
76/2 77/8 88/19 99/13
117/24 127/17 138/14
139/7 161/10 173/22
174/2
placed [2] 91/21
163/25
plan [7] 62/6 69/1
76/2 89/5 90/21 90/23
117/8
planning [5] 76/19
76/22 77/19 78/14
78/19
plans [1] 88/10
platform [1] 155/5
play [1] 38/16
played [1] 158/19
playground [1] 46/6
playing [1] 38/6
please [82] 1/16 2/8
5/2 5/3 7/15 11/15
11/16 12/1 14/5 15/19
17/4 19/19 22/20
22/25 23/18 24/11
25/9 25/10 26/16 29/2
32/21 42/11 47/18
48/8 48/9 50/22 56/24
57/1 66/1 68/10 68/14
70/7 70/15 75/15 78/7,
79/8 82/23 84/18
84/20 85/6 85/7 91/25
102/1 102/22 106/8
111/4 114/17 119/1
119/12 120/21 121/4
121/13 124/4 126/11
126/12 127/1 127/14
128/8 128/13 129/9
129/19 130/12 131/2
132/2 132/3 132/9
140/23 140/24 141/9
144/11 152/17 157/13
157/14 157/16 158/24
161/12 166/8 166/18
169/6 169/9 169/10
170/11
pleased [1] 146/11
pleasure [1] 176/20
plough [1] 86/12
plus [5] 60/7 60/7
60/8 68/3 127/22
pm [6] 92/13 102/8
102/10 152/20 152/22
177/16
podcasts [1] 109/14
point [54] 2/21 2/24
3/7 4/7 4/10 9/4 9/23
16/2 18/7 19/10 20/23}
27/24 30/16 34/10
37/18 37/25 38/25
42/17 44/11 45/7 48/4
49/1 50/9 50/17 58/7
64/14 69/14 71/3
71/22 73/24 75/4
78/21 78/22 78/23
79/6 81/17 83/11
93/16 94/9 97/3 97/6
97/11 98/5 99/18
100/7 118/18 119/14
124/7 133/20 150/14
167/12 168/3 171/18
176/12
points [15] 10/25
12/3 13/18 15/17
32/15 68/3 78/14
79/11 81/5 88/23
90/14 95/23 96/6
100/6 170/13
POL [4] 49/9 81/20
92/17 94/1
POL00423697 [2]
11/16 119/24
POL00446476 [1]
74/20
POL00446477 [1]
80/12
POL00448297 [1]
161/12
POL00448301 [1]
167/24
POL00448302 [1]
164/12
POL00448303 [1]
140/23
POL00448309 [1]
158/24
POL00448320 [1]
15/19
POL00448370 [1]
82/23
POL00448378 [1]
48/8
POL00448379 [1]
POL00448383 [1]
166/8
POL00448384 [1]
170/11
POL00448389 [1]
83/20
POL00448391 [1]
84/16
POL00448394 [1]
91/25
POL00448396 [1]
4111/4
POL00448398 [1]
34/15
POL00448401 [1]
10/21
5/3)
POL00448514 [1]
169/6
POL00448615 [1]
157/14
POL00448616 [1]
22/20
POL00448624 [1]
68/10
POL00448648 [1]
70/8
POL00448788 [1] 7/3
POL00448789 [1]
65/25
police [49] 19/24
23/4 25/12 25/25 26/4I
26/6 26/11 26/14
26/23 26/25 27/1
27/16 27/18 28/7
28/12 28/15 29/22
29/24 32/25 33/7
33/14 33/17 34/18
35/4 35/9 36/5 38/10
38/12 38/17 39/1 39/3)
39/24 40/13 41/14
43/1 43/7 43/12 43/15)
43/20 43/23 44/19
136/1 136/14 136/14
150/2 150/6 150/8
151/2 151/2
police's [2] 33/7
33/10
policies [2] 12/9 45/1
policy [1] 11/14
polite [1] 47/25
poor [3] 78/14 91/8
96/12
pop [1] 118/13
population [1] 13/10
Portal [1] 131/1
portrayed [2] 97/25
168/19
position [14] 4/19
20/24 38/22 48/11
70/20 104/7 104/10
104/15 116/15 125/16)
138/7 141/8 145/11
161/2
ions [1] 104/4
positive [5] 59/6
66/11 88/23 98/16
169/18
possible [1] 83/3
possibly [5] 41/15
77/9 86/10 143/3
143/21
post [201]
post-audit [1] 174/8
post-interview [1]
134/7
postage [1] 65/2
postmaster [79] 1/15)
1/24 2/14 2/17 2/20
2/23 3/15 3/25 4/21
6/25 7/14 7/24 15/3
(66) partner - postmasterO
P
postmaster... [66]
18/5 19/2 20/13 23/13)
31/1 32/3 33/24 34/18}
45/7 48/22 50/7 62/21
63/10 65/21 79/21
79/23 80/7 83/19
83/25 84/5 84/5 85/17
87/1 87/9 89/1 90/18
92/16 92/24 92/25
94/8 95/14 95/14
95/15 95/16 96/23
101/3 105/7 105/11
106/7 107/23 108/6
110/10 110/14 110/15}
110/16 110/19 110/25
116/19 117/5 117/9
117/13 117/21 124/2
130/22 131/15 132/22
142/22 148/2 155/1
155/12 157/21 157/23)
158/5 158/7 158/8
158/8
postmaster's [1]
65/19
postmasters [103]
1/18 1/20 1/20 2/8 3/5)
3/20 6/6 11/2 14/15
15/5 17/11 17/15
17/18 18/11 18/16
19/1 19/14 20/9 24/19}
24/22 28/10 29/10
29/13 29/15 30/17
30/19 31/3 32/19 35/4
39/15 39/21 42/21
44/7 45/21 46/19
49/24 50/2 50/8 50/13)
51/2 54/3 54/18 55/7
55/8 56/5 60/6 63/22
64/1 64/5 64/11 64/11
64/22 64/24 66/21
67/19 83/3 83/15
84/14 84/25 85/2
85/10 85/21 85/25
86/14 86/20 86/21
88/24 88/25 91/22
92/20 92/21 94/13
97/19 97/23 98/1 99/7
100/20 101/10 101/13
101/18 105/8 107/25
108/5 108/12 109/6
109/10 110/22 112/21
115/7 115/22 116/1
116/4 117/1 117/13
117/14 131/18 139/4
146/20 153/11 154/7
155/9 161/16 165/17
postmasters' [3]
17/11 17/12 32/10
postmistress [8]
3/17 3/17 5/9 5/12
5/22 6/16 6/20 9/25
potential [8] 27/9
27/21 33/5 35/9
123/20 145/19 153/12)
153/14
potentially [7] 13/1
28/10 55/22 112/20
120/10 123/25 154/15)
power [2] 99/6
147/25
powerful [1] 169/5
powers [3] 2/7 30/1
33/15
practicable [1]
126/10
practically [1] 2/19
practice [2] 18/5
109/18
practices [4] 48/14
48/16 52/10 80/17
prayer [1] 50/24
pre [2] 133/6 133/15
pre-interview [2]
133/6 133/15
precise [1] 173/21
precisely [1] 110/24
premature [2] 70/6
100/7
premise [1] 147/2
prescription [2]
173/13 173/14
present [5] 56/6
80/16 84/6 108/5
154/9
presentation [1]
10/22
presentations [1]
77/22
presented [8] 17/24
28/11 99/18 99/23
136/11 136/23 148/6
169/12
presents [1] 151/7
press [2] 95/10
165/16
pressing [1] 81/7
pressure [1] 168/4
pressures [2] 168/1
168/3
Preston [1] 2/18
presumably [2]
138/14 174/22
pretty [4] 22/6 134/20)
138/25 172/2
prevail [1] 51/8
prevailing [1] 176/14
previous [5] 41/18
81/4 91/5 91/22
131/16
previously [8] 20/18
34/13 41/1 86/17 93/1
130/12 139/1 162/18
primarily [1] 153/9
principle [1] 57/24
print [4] 65/8 65/10
127/25 154/19
printed [1] 154/20
printers [2] 68/4 68/5
printing [1] 65/2
printout [1] 128/4
prior [15] 17/24 40/8
58/2 71/20 84/8
111/15 131/6 131/15
137/15 138/4 140/4
140/20 140/21 143/1
169/16
priority [2] 78/7 79/9
Priority D [1] 79/9
private [2] 16/4 76/22
privately [1] 107/4
privilege [2] 156/5
159/10
privy [2] 61/11 74/8
pro [1] 110/14
pro-postmaster [1]
110/14
proactive [3] 67/19
92/20 97/10
probably [9] 21/3
60/13 61/10 74/4 77/4
116/17 140/13 173/3
175/13
problem [11] 3/23
10/14 22/2 96/8 98/12,
118/17 148/24 151/7
160/4 165/23 166/1
problems [6] 57/3
87/16 91/12 94/19
148/20 163/7
procedural [1] 32/8
proceedings [6] 13/2
39/21 40/19 42/2
42/21 120/11
process [21] 9/10
11/17 13/9 13/15
13/22 18/2 46/4 73/15
77/21 85/14 85/18
85/22 104/13 104/14
139/20 141/7 149/9
157/25 160/9 162/14
170/12
processes [3] 12/9
78/14 156/9
processing [1] 96/16
procurement [16]
61/6 70/21 70/24 71/5
71/7 7118 71/9 71/13
TANT 71/22 71/24
72/3 72/4 72/5 72/10
72/25
produce [6] 62/6
64/23 73/12 80/20
90/21 90/23
produced [6] 15/14
40/11 42/3 73/19 99/4
172/12
producing [1] 93/6
professional [4]
119/19 122/18 125/20
154/25
profitability [4] 55/10
programme [4] 59/23}
61/20 67/14 72/14
progress [5] 27/7
30/7 43/21 66/10
141/22
progressing [1]
26/24
project [13] 11/15
58/2 58/5 58/22 59/9
75/12 113/17 119/23
142/24 148/3 157/9
158/19 164/10
projects [2] 93/7
160/18
promoted [1] 101/1
prompt [1] 121/5
prompted [1] 109/9
prompts [1] 153/10
proof [2] 141/23
141/23
proper [9] 13/4 41/16
44/17 50/23 76/8
120/13 132/5 140/5
140/10
properly [8] 21/11
23/14 106/12 126/18
127/14 146/20 157/3
167/17
proposal [2] 93/24
99/19
proposals [1] 92/18
proposed [1] 16/5
prosecuting [3]
28/12 32/20 34/11
prosecution [4] 33/1
43/1 45/21 149/21
prosecutions [7]
10/3 15/23 16/5 19/2
32/19 32/24 34/20
prosecutorial [1]
29/25
prosecutors [3] 16/8
28/15 40/14
protect [1] 150/22
protected [2] 133/7
133/15
protecting [2] 15/1
55/16
provide [33] 27/10
29/13 30/5 34/5 38/19)
40/22 42/4 42/23
42/25 50/25 64/5
74/23 91/21 94/7
105/4 105/10 105/23
115/8 115/21 119/12
124/10 127/1 128/8
129/7 129/15 129/25
133/8 134/2 134/10
137/23 147/10 150/11
151/4
provided [23] 4/2
11/12 11/20 20/9
44/19 71/14 80/22
89/16 90/24 98/4
99/20 107/9 116/16
126/18 132/8 132/13
133/9 133/13 134/6
136/21 145/8 165/9
177/16
provider [1] 43/13
provides [4] 12/5
43/3 124/9 126/7
providing [3] 33/8
40/20 124/20
provision [3] 7/17
28/13 149/20
public [6] 28/12
74/15 107/4 115/10
165/8 168/22
published [1] 103/12
purchase [2] 59/12
59/14
purchased [2] 59/8
103/14
purpose [10] 45/16
69/17 69/22 74/23
75/17 76/16 81/9
81/11 104/5 156/23
purposes [1] 177/5
pursue [3] 16/4 29/9
30/19
pursued [1] 32/25
Pursuit [2] 30/17
33/20
push [3] 110/11
162/19 162/19
pushback [2] 110/13
110/23
pushed [2] 20/20
101/2
pushing [1] 172/22
put [24] 3/21 5/18
6/16 23/17 54/11
54/17 87/10 89/2
90/23 95/25 96/2
115/10 117/22 127/18)
131/13 135/4 163/21
169/10 170/5 171/10
175/18
putting [4] 54/22
83/13 110/16 142/2
Q
QR [1] 96/15
qualifications [1]
12/16
quality [3] 13/25
113/11 113/22
quarters [1] 76/5
queried [4] 66/6
66/18 67/1 70/23
queries [3] 51/17
122/10 140/15
query [10] 97/12
118/14 118/22 120/25)
122/16 123/18 129/2
147/2 147/3 147/6
(67) postmaster... - queryO
Q
question [9] 42/7
52/10 86/1 87/3 90/11
98/22 148/22 150/13
155/17
questioned [11] 1/4
58/18 88/4 100/15
102/21 173/19 178/4
178/6 178/8 178/12
178/14
questions [18] 6/22
43/7 43/14 69/17
69/18 79/4 87/24
87/25 88/8 90/15
90/17 100/10 100/14
125/5 125/15 173/17
173/18 176/22
quick [4] 97/12
quicker [2] 66/24
129/14
quickly [5] 67/11
82/6 95/18 157/12
162/7
quite [15] 34/8 51/7
80/20 82/24 102/15
107/14 110/1 110/3
110/18 110/18 113/24
164/11 164/12 167/16)
171/16
quotation [1] 2/9
R
Rachael [1] 111/11
racism [5] 48/14
48/16 48/19 52/6
52/16
radius [2] 5/18 5/20
Railton [9] 35/24
36/19 37/7 68/18 70/9}
71/4 92/3 100/5 112/3
Railton's [1] 70/13
raise [10] 29/7 34/19
61/12 62/12 63/8 64/2
95/23 170/20 173/9
174/22
raised [35] 3/16 5/4
9/5 9/20 10/2 14/18
24/25 30/9 33/4 35/24
37/5 43/7 46/3 47/9
47/13 49/20 50/17
51/9 59/7 61/4 62/8
63/11 63/25 71/22
78/22 78/22 78/23
79/4 120/25 151/13
153/7 153/16 158/18
169/25 172/19
raises [1] 95/24
raising [3] 37/1 49/14)
64/14
Ramadan [2] 50/5
84/10
random [2] 130/17
130/18
rang [1] 49/7
range [3] 1/18 69/2
92/23
ranging [1] 17/14
rapid [1] 170/7
rapidly [2] 132/1
164/12
rather [8] 79/24
126/6 133/19 147/15
158/16 159/21 165/7
175/8
rationale [1] 16/9
reach [2] 4/20 146/3
reached [2] 29/4
139/19
reaches [1] 155/22
reaction [2] 168/21
171/7
read [46] 4/13 4/14
5/5 7/3 29/1 29/3
31/15 34/16 37/4 37/6
37/8 37/14 39/11
42/12 42/15 44/1
54/19 89/16 107/3
107/8 107/17 109/12
109/14 109/18 111/25)
149/23 151/12 151/15)
166/4 166/12 166/13
166/16 167/6 167/8
168/2 168/9 168/10
168/20 171/3 171/6
171/12 171/13 171/21
171/23 171/24 177/4
Read's [3] 37/12
37/20 38/1
read-out [1] 111/25
reading [2] 42/12
93/24
readout [1] 107/13
ready [7] 46/17 50/23
59/16 60/1 60/11
60/11 64/23
real [6] 46/22 54/4
107/5 107/18 154/13
156/7
real-world [2] 107/5
156/7
realise [1] 156/4
realising [1] 139/20
realistically [1]
156/15
realities [2] 55/7
156/8
reality [3] 22/7 54/3
56/1
really [19] 4/5 4/7
6/23 14/25 23/25 27/7
28/24 79/4 82/7 83/17
93/8 93/8 105/10
106/13 109/19 131/16)
135/24 150/13 173/20)
reappeared [1] 160/3
reason [12] 36/6
39/17 58/14 100/21
101/17 112/16 115/3
119/8 126/1 127/1
158/12 163/22
reasonable [2] 135/5
176/13
reasons [6] 7/6 8/11
42/4 80/21 122/25
158/3
reassurance [2]
54/14 60/6
reassure [3] 26/3
32/6 32/17
reattached [1]
130/25
rebranded [1] 94/10
recall [11] 11/19
53/5 89/13 120/2
120/5 128/10 175/12
recalls [1] 171/2
receipt [3] 127/25
128/1 130/13
receipts [1] 128/3
receive [4] 11/3
131/22 146/11 169/23
received [23] 10/5
21/21 21/23 28/3
33/12 43/14 44/15
46/13 50/5 54/2 69/11
84/1 85/1 100/5 107/1
108/21 118/9 119/15
129/2 130/4 149/6
161/24 167/13
receiving [5] 16/12
45/12 55/8 119/14
121/23
recent [8] 29/21
48/15 48/18 51/14
59/23 68/8 70/10
161/17
recently [14] 20/18
53/21 55/13 58/8
61/15 78/12 83/25
94/15 116/22 116/22
117/1 121/7 160/5
160/16
reception [1] 25/1
reckoning [1] 173/25
recognise [1] 57/17
recognises [1] 31/2
recommendation [4]
17/5 17/7 54/12 54/16
recommendations
[3] 148/4 148/5
173/7
recommended [3]
87/11 145/16 145/17
record [5] 126/4
126/7 134/2 134/11
177/4
recorded [2] 134/22
136/10
recording [9] 12/20
57/23 126/7 126/9
16/12 20/2 22/18 52/8
134/1 134/6 134/7
134/8 165/17
records [1] 41/1
recoveries [1] 33/23
recovery [2] 33/21
118/1
recruitment [2] 84/21
85/5
recycling [1] 9/5
redeployment [1] 9/5
redesigning [1]
65/20
redone [1] 74/1
redraft [1] 172/18
redress [5] 31/1 31/5
33/25 34/2 88/24
reds [2] 160/19
160/19
reduce [3] 62/21
64/24 80/10
reduced [2] 5/18
7/10
reduces [2] 65/3
65/21
refer [2] 53/13
129/23
reference [16] 18/17
29/18 66/13 71/1
78/17 90/20 92/15
103/3 108/8 133/18
147/19 150/14 166/11
167/4 167/8 167/25
referenced [1] 26/23
referred [10] 7/20 8/5
43/12 45/2 132/19
137/15 148/17 149/11
157/6 160/16
referring [2] 39/3
142/3
refers [2] 8/10 41/7
reflect [3] 44/6 44/8
45/5
reflection [1] 165/4
reflective [1] 89/1
refusing [1] 46/7
regard [4] 53/2
132/11 150/17 161/17}
regarding [29] 10/6
24/14 31/24 35/3 35/9
43/7 48/16 49/5 49/5
53/24 54/10 64/15
64/21 71/21 76/21
77/5 80/6 83/25 86/25
87/3 96/19 100/4
101/2 133/7 133/12
136/20 137/13 141/17]
142/4
regards [5] 61/23
82/14 85/16 99/7
142/22
Regional [1] 86/22
regular [2] 151/15
159/6
regularly [4] 123/14
131/22 151/17 161/21
regulatory [1] 29/25
rehired [2] 9/10 9/13
rehiring [3] 49/12
49/18 52/12
reinforces [2] 27/23
49/15
reinforcing [1] 79/6
reiterate [1] 124/24
rejoining [1] 9/6
relate [4] 1/19 32/23
49/23 90/2
related [5] 31/2 98/6
120/25 123/22 127/19)
relates [3] 11/15
149/11 150/41
relating [11] 17/14
25/8 25/12 34/20
45/18 59/9 71/6 78/19)
84/14 91/12 138/15
relation [16] 12/19
59/11 66/6 84/8 91/7
94/14 99/6 119/15
138/17 142/10 145/9
146/7 149/19 159/8
170/13 173/23
relationship [15]
15/23 46/11 46/14
46/18 46/22 47/3 47/7I
75/18 96/21 117/8
417/11 122/11 147/14I
152/4 172/2
relationships [1]
147/23
relatively [1] 157/12
relax [1] 139/23
release [2] 166/21
167/13
released [2] 151/6
165/8
relevance [1] 105/10
relevant [7] 18/13
18/18 28/13 36/25
42/3 104/5 154/9
reliability [9] 28/8
28/16 30/6 34/1 40/10
40/15 40/18 41/20
42/2
reliant [1] 41/7
reluctant [1] 64/7
rely [2] 33/11 150/14
relying [2] 30/24
132/11
rem [1] 65/18
remain [1] 159/13
remained [1] 170/6
remains [2] 162/2
176/23
RemCo [7] 53/19
53/22 53/25 79/1
112/15 112/17 112/23}
Remediation [1]
1141
remember [14] 11/22)
(68) question - rememberO
R
11/23 16/15 36/14
36/15 58/17 73/22
74/12 74/12 77/5
123/3 123/6 132/18
140/13
remit [4] 17/7 19/23
111/16 111/22
remitting [1] 41/5
remotely [1] 127/24
removal [1] 141/18
remove [2] 69/25
161/7
removing [1] 164/8
remuneration [6]
53/14 55/8 55/23 89/1
111/20 124/8
renewal [1] 61/17
reopened [2] 7/8
35/24
rep [1] 74/12
repeat [3] 85/12 86/1
98/22
repeated [1] 158/22
repeatedly [2] 51/20
123/17
repeating [1] 131/19
replace [1] 98/16
replacement [9] 7/19
69/7 69/22 85/14
85/22 156/14 156/22
156/23 157/6
replied [1] 66/7
report [40] 15/10
15/19 16/7 19/24 21/5)
38/11 49/8 52/18
68/10 68/17 69/11
73/5 73/19 74/1 75/3
80/2 80/12 80/16
80/22 80/25 81/4
89/16 111/18 114/18
114/20 119/23 119/25)
119/25 120/4 120/6
120/16 142/18 148/3
154/20 157/15 172/5
172/10 172/12 172/15)
172/23
reported [3] 33/6
91/9 146/17
reporting [5] 12/20
16/17 57/14 70/20
141/2
reports [14] 38/12
38/25 51/14 57/11
68/8 68/8 73/3 73/4
73/7 73/9 82/12 155/7,
172/7 172/9
represent [3] 88/5
88/7 92/21
representation [1]
94/16
representative [4]
remember... [13]
20/19 20/22 125/13
125/14
representatives [2]
116/1 125/23
reps [1] 80/4
170/3
reputationally [1]
170/2
request [6] 25/4 40/1
40/2 43/3 74/6 172/12
requested [2] 111/7
129/16
requesting [4] 39/19
42/19 96/24 170/3
requests [5] 32/23
40/9 85/13 128/20
158/22
require [3] 33/15
77/23 150/8
required [4] 106/6
154/8 175/24 176/2
requirement [1] 5/14
requirements [1]
74/25
requires [5] 18/6
30/5 142/20 147/9
150/2
resisted [1] 35/13
resolution [1] 122/16
resolve [5] 88/24
94/21 140/14 147/3
176/12
resolved [3] 23/15
61/25 96/22
resource [1] 32/7
respect [26] 1/10
14/8 15/16 15/16
15/22 17/19 20/7
22/10 27/20 30/10
30/23 32/22 67/6 85/4
108/22 112/11 115/21
124/22 144/21 144/22)
145/7 145/20 145/25
152/8 154/3 158/19
respectfully [1]
128/19
respective [1] 31/10
respects [1] 122/12
respond [1] 120/23
responded [6] 23/18
50/19 54/1 89/20
100/1 101/1
responding [1] 42/10
responds [2] 51/14
12114
response [36] 14/19
25/4 26/8 26/17 26/18
26/21 31/14 31/15
31/16 31/19 33/4 34/6
39/10 45/8 50/24 52/2
55/15 58/20 66/6
66/20 70/6 73/23 80/1
85/7 85/11 100/4
reputation [2] 135/19
121/5 128/14 129/19
133/4 133/5 141/12
141/13 142/13 171/17
171/20
responses [1]
170/21
responsibilities [1]
56/9
responsibility [4]
56/2 56/12 60/24 72/9
right [63] 10/23 19/6
19/16 23/12 24/4
24/19 24/21 24/24
30/13 34/3 34/20 35/1
36/11 36/13 37/12
38/7 38/9 38/12 38/24,
38/24 39/7 43/10
51/12 55/6 58/3 58/12,
67/11 67/23 71/15
73/13 75/14 86/11
responsible [9] 19/3
23/5 58/5 58/7 60/17
141/21 144/2 162/8
172/22
rest [3] 128/20 155/4
175/11
restitution [1] 16/10
restoration [1] 170/3
result [8] 13/2 13/10
19/4 43/20 84/24
112/2 120/11 161/25
resulted [1] 53/20
resulting [1] 28/17
resulting’ [1] 40/16
results [5] 89/12
90/22 91/5 91/8 91/8
resume [1] 177/12
retail [9] 45/23 48/12
64/2 64/6 84/2 85/12
93/19 97/25 114/13
retailers [1] 171/25
retention [1] 163/8
retract [1] 169/11
retrospective [1]
7AIN9
return [4] 67/17
119/22 120/21 121/16
returns [1] 96/16
revenue [1] 124/14
reversal [1] 57/18
revert [1] 134/9
review [29] 7/17
11/16 60/10 62/6
68/15 68/20 68/25
70/4 70/24 71/5 73/6
74/20 74/23 75/6 75/8
80/13 88/18 89/8
100/5 122/15 126/16
129/12 131/7 153/14
157/15 161/21 162/1
165/8 170/9
reviewed [4] 51/25
127/14 129/11 147/20}
reviewing [1] 126/14
revision [1] 80/23
revolutionary [1]
67/20
reward [1] 78/3
rewrite [1] 74/8
Reynolds [2] 88/21
88/24
Richard [4] 50/12
86/18 115/15 165/16
rife [1] 38/5
87/20 88/1 91/21
94/11 94/25 97/3
99/19 101/20 102/15
102/17 103/1 103/15
104/11 106/15 108/14)
108/15 109/20 117/18
129/1 138/10 150/10
151/9 153/3 154/1
168/24 170/6 171/11
174/16 174/21 176/7
176/18
rightly [7] 28/14
39/23 42/22 51/8
51/11 132/18 172/17
rigour [2] 107/5
150/5
ringing [1] 35/19
risk [13] 12/19 13/13
13/21 64/24 64/24
65/22 70/21 71/11
71/13 98/15 111/19
160/12 160/20
road [1] 5/24
Roberts [9] 87/5 87/7
96/19 166/6 167/1
167/10 169/9 169/16
169/24
Roberts’ [1] 84/22
robust [2] 105/23
105/24
role [16] 27/12 38/16
54/25 56/11 81/15
85/2 105/10 106/18
106/21 123/16 157/18}
158/13 158/19 160/3
161/8 163/1
roles [9] 106/10
114/14 157/10 157/15}
159/2 159/25 160/8
160/15 167/19
Rolling [1] 77/21
roof [1] 96/11
room [6] 87/6 89/15
116/25 125/23 135/21
140/9
root [2] 148/20
148/24
Ross [2] 77/3 77/5
rotations [3] 78/14
78/20 81/21
round [4] 100/17
104/16 105/8 176/5
rounded [1] 131/5
route [1] 134/12
rule [1] 63/21
run [15] 23/14 56/3
56/7 63/20 67/21
100/23 101/12 122/9
128/4 135/5 140/3
142/9 154/7 154/11
156/13
running [1] 144/8
runs [1] 137/18
rural [1] 1/20
Ss
sacking [1] 164/3
Sadly [1] 168/16
Saf [8] 51/4 98/17
110/21 111/7 142/19
161/16 169/19 170/21
Saf's [1] 166/20
said [67] 2/3 2/5 2/25
4/14 6/3 6/8 10/5 15/6
15/10 19/5 20/1 21/8
21/8 24/18 27/20
27/23 28/22 31/20
36/16 36/19 42/19
47/19 48/2 49/15 51/1
54/12 63/5 64/19
72/19 73/23 80/21
82/3 90/3 93/1 96/7
103/13 106/4 107/4
110/8 110/25 113/13
115/14 116/7 117/5
118/10 118/13 118/21
123/18 130/6 130/14
131/20 132/19 133/24}
135/25 137/2 137/13
137/23 138/9 138/24
146/18 149/3 153/24
157/17 165/20 166/14}
168/12 170/19
salary [1] 79/5
sales [2] 64/3 64/6
same [15] 22/21 42/7
59/3 72/12 73/2 76/10I
78/18 82/7 116/25
136/12 137/5 138/15
155/2 165/25 170/6
Sarah [2] 18/23 25/2
SARFARAZ [2] 1/3
178/2
sat [4] 15/14 140/9
143/11 159/22
satisfy [2] 104/16
105/14
save [1] 45/2
saving [1] 68/5
saw [20] 33/2 35/19
36/11 36/12 44/14
50/14 54/19 80/2
107/15 114/19 120/1
130/20 132/12 148/3
148/16 151/11 161/13)
163/20 169/7 172/5
say [77] 6/14 20/18
21/18 22/13 22/15
(69) remember... - sayO
Ss
say... [72] 22/16 23/6
23/18 24/12 34/22
38/8 39/1 42/23 47/14
53/22 55/23 57/4 57/7
58/9 59/1 71/10 72/4
72/9 73/18 79/9 83/1
83/23 85/8 88/16
89/22 89/23 91/7 92/8
92/12 94/6 95/25
98/10 98/14 99/9
100/7 104/1 105/22
106/23 109/4 109/25
110/14 112/16 116/10)
116/10 116/13 116/17)
117/24 118/8 118/20
120/6 120/23 126/13
128/6 129/10 131/3
132/4 133/1 135/12
140/5 141/1 141/14
143/10 153/3 157/13
159/3 161/20 166/19
166/24 170/4 174/11
175/23 176/11
saying [19] 30/13
35/13 37/11 37/13
39/5 50/8 54/1 58/19
64/8 65/16 74/12
74/13 92/8 96/21
98/19 98/23 99/2
164/19 175/15
says [62] 7/4 7/11
12/4 12/22 13/7 16/3
16/21 17/6 18/12
19/20 24/3 24/6 25/22)
26/9 31/7 32/1 32/5
32/16 32/21 33/20
39/12 39/18 40/7 41/9
42/13 42/18 43/5
43/22 44/1 45/14
51/14 52/3 52/18
52/21 66/4 68/22
70/11 71/3 74/22 75/2
76/5 78/10 80/2 80/14
81/19 83/6 84/19
111/6 114/23 119/4
121/10 121/19 122/1
122/21 122/22 129/20)
130/10 130/24 136/19
141/9 142/13 169/9
scale [2] 91/12
127/18
scandal [4] 31/10
31/12 39/14 161/19
scenario [2] 5/21
93/21
scheme [4] 11/1
111/8 111/9 112/11
schemes [1] 34/2
school [1] 46/6
scope [2] 66/25
109/5
scratch [1] 129/17
screen [10] 56/25
62/11 62/20 68/2
89/22 107/16 114/18
119/23 148/7 152/25
screens [5] 62/12
66/15 66/19 66/22
67/2
screenshot [1]
130/25
scroll [35] 8/21 15/24
16/23 17/5 22/24
23/18 24/2 26/8 26/16
32/5 41/9 49/6 51/13
52/2 57/1 57/16 66/3
66/13 68/22 69/16
70/10 114/20 114/23
121/4 124/19 128/13
129/9 129/19 131/2
141/9 141/12 164/18
165/3 170/14 170/18
scrutiny [3] 87/20
91/22 98/3
second [19] 30/16
63/8 65/9 77/3 80/12
81/15 84/18 86/3 87/3
92/12 98/18 123/20
138/22 145/25 153/11
163/14 165/4 169/8
174/20
second-tier [1]
163/14
secondly [2] 62/22
87/19
Secretariat [1]
145/18
Secretary [1] 124/15
section [5] 82/18
124/19 132/8 132/14
132/18
secure [1] 128/11
Security [1] 27/13
see [64] 1/5 2/12 3/4
5/5 10/25 12/1 13/18
15/25 16/23 17/4
18/25 19/19 23/18
26/8 26/23 33/24
46/24 46/24 51/13
51/19 52/2 55/25
56/21 62/11 62/25
66/4 66/13 68/2 68/22
70/8 70/10 70/19
74/21 80/2 80/14
86/12 93/15 99/16
101/4 102/11 108/4
110/21 111/13 114/23)
115/3 118/16 124/19
131/24 139/15 140/25)
141/11 141/16 142/13)
143/4 147/15 151/25
156/3 159/11 164/8
164/18 166/9 166/18
170/14 170/18
seeing [10] 3/2 9/16
11/22 24/21 37/24
37/24 40/8 47/2 56/8
168/19
seek [3] 16/10 18/15
31/4
seeking [1] 133/25
seem [9] 38/3 85/19
120/20 138/9 144/4
148/19 159/4 159/5
164/23
seemed [4] 70/22
101/7 139/23 163/20
seeming [2] 47/7
167/20
seems [9] 30/8 30/18
45/19 64/6 144/7
145/13 147/13 151/23}
164/14
seen [32] 15/3 17/21
17/23 19/13 20/8 31/8}
34/13 41/10 41/18
45/11 45/13 46/8
60/15 70/16 79/24
82/17 84/22 100/24
104/10 108/8 111/5
114/3 117/2 136/24
143/1 149/18 152/6
161/13 164/10 171/9
175/25 176/8
sees [1] 45/20
Select [1] 168/11
selected [1] 18/10
selective [1] 28/23
self [4] 65/2 66/21
96/13 127/23
self-funding [1]
66/21
self-serve [1] 127/23
self-serving [2] 65/2
96/13
semi [1] 98/6
semi-related [1] 98/6
send [2] 36/18
122/15
senior [12] 50/18
76/24 77/13 90/6
92/17 93/10 93/13
93/25 94/3 119/4
119/6 156/11
sense [5] 51/8 54/24
72/6 165/25 168/23
sensitive [1] 82/19
sent [21] 11/21 25/13
34/14 36/17 37/14
45/10 73/24 100/19
100/20 120/20 126/14
128/15 128/23 130/12
130/20 130/20 142/21
157/22 159/2 164/15
166/10
sentence [1] 143/9
separate [4] 7/23
118/3 138/16 160/17
September [6] 1/1
15/20 21/6 175/13
175/19 177/18
sequence [1] 138/12
series [3] 105/9
137/20 175/6
serious [5] 6/22 29/8
30/9 88/19 131/6
seriously [3] 53/8
70/3 77/10
serve [2] 67/22
127/23
server [3] 128/11
130/17 130/17
service [6] 7/17 7/19
33/1 43/1 113/11
145/5
services [6] 7/12
26/7 29/11 41/8 124/9)
124/10
serving [7] 62/16
63/13 63/18 65/2
95/16 96/13 115/1
session [1] 23/22
sessions [2] 66/5
76/22
set [11] 5/14 57/2
69/16 92/6 99/24
100/19 104/4 106/13
133/11 135/11 153/2
sets [8] 13/14 69/3
75/15 81/10 109/19
119/13 122/21 155/8
settled [1] 169/21
seven [2] 176/12
176/17
several [2] 2/10
24/11
share [9] 39/13 115/1
115/9 115/17 146/23
148/12 156/7 165/13
166/3
shared [4] 165/16
166/5 170/1 170/8
shareholder [7] 56/4
60/5 68/6 75/18 75/24,
81/13 81/15
sharing [1] 165/24
Shaun [2] 87/5 87/5
she [17] 3/22 3/22
3/23 4/3 4/21 5/8 6/1
6/3 14/25 47/20 48/12,
48/12 79/5 84/19 97/8)
111/6 163/2
she's [4] 3/17 4/15
5/7 6/18
Shepherd [1] 1/24
shift [1] 117/2
shifted [2] 139/20
151/22
shock [1] 3/13
shocked [2] 50/8
TINT
shocking [4] 96/7
96/8 109/13 134/18
shook [1] 169/20
shop [1] 80/4
shopping [1] 128/2
short [9] 46/16 56/19
63/23 66/8 84/1 99/14)
102/9 152/21 163/1
short-term [1] 46/16
shortfall [4] 11/1
30/24 122/24 145/5
shortfalls [10] 29/16
30/17 30/19 33/20
42/6 45/7 122/2
122/20 122/21 146/3
shortly [7] 11/18
14/13 18/1 103/12
138/22 170/16 172/5
should [70] 3/20 4/22
9/7 9/18 11/11 16/20
16/22 16/25 18/20
19/10 20/18 21/18
21/25 30/23 37/6
37/15 38/7 39/2 52/24)
53/21 55/2 55/3 58/25]
60/23 61/23 63/25
65/1 68/20 69/23
72/12 73/18 78/15
79/1 87/8 92/12 92/14I
93/12 93/25 94/7
95/20 96/13 96/15
98/19 99/2 102/24
108/25 109/18 110/7
113/3 113/10 117/15
134/11 143/4 143/5
145/11 145/12 145/16)
147/1 147/4 147/22
147/23 150/7 150/11
151/5 159/18 160/21
161/6 164/6 173/12
173/24
shouldn't [5] 16/21
45/2 113/6 171/9
176/17
showed [1] 67/14
showing [2] 54/6
72/24
shown [3] 6/19 67/16
67/17
shows [4] 6/21 34/8
38/2 168/22
shut [1] 137/9
SI [2] 66/5 66/7
side [10] 49/9 65/8
72/25 78/10 79/10
120/2 141/7 146/24
150/23 153/20
sight [3] 78/15 90/22
101/7
sighted [4] 17/25
89/18 95/2 98/12
sign [2] 124/17
175/22
signature [2] 103/6
123/22
signed [2] 124/11
176/1
(70) say... - signedO
s
significant [13] 11/3
11/23 15/15 31/9 32/7)
45/20 58/15 107/7
131/11 138/8 147/7
152/7 153/13
significantly [2]
85/10 106/10
signify [1] 163/7
silo [1] 38/4
silos [1] 165/21
similar [4] 90/4 95/12
109/22 136/1
Simon [2] 25/13 27/8
simple [8] 14/21
39/19 65/6 67/15
67/24 68/1 90/11
95/18
simpler [1] 8/18
simplification [1]
66/11
simply [3] 74/16
101/10 173/23
simultaneous [1]
78/13
simultaneously [1]
104/22
since [10] 54/1 54/2
54/4 61/15 104/7
116/17 117/2 130/2
131/10 168/5
single [5] 27/3 92/24
131/23 159/4 161/24
sir [32] 1/5 37/17
38/18 39/6 46/4 56/14,
56/21 81/24 86/6
87/25 89/8 90/5 91/6
91/10 100/12 100/14
100/15 100/24 101/13}
101/25 102/1 102/11
152/14 173/17 173/18
173/19 174/7 174/14
176/20 177/1 178/8
178/14
Sir Wyn [1] 46/4
sit [7] 111/1 112/15
112/17 112/19 134/19)
144/5 146/23
sits [1] 144/4
sitting [3] 59/8
150/24 177/11
situ [1] 98/17
situation [7] 3/14
71/16 114/12 125/21
140/1 150/4 171/11
situations [4] 17/14
18/6 95/6 150/15
six [4] 53/23 92/16
140/13 162/11
size [1] 163/10
sized [1] 135/5
SJ [2] 70/20 71/4
skewed [1] 113/18
skill [2] 62/16 163/13
skip [1] 157/11
slide [1] 10/20
slightly [4] 17/6 86/7
114/20 164/18
slow [1] 162/21
slower [1] 134/21
small [3] 76/1 130/2
177/12
smaller [2] 105/14
106/1
Smyth [1] 58/6
so [220]
social [3] 50/13
86/19 115/7
softened [1] 172/17
software [1] 155/5
solely [1] 61/1
solution [1] 19/16
some [98] 1/15 3/7
5/2 6/22 10/10 10/11
12/1 12/2 13/14 13/18)
15/8 18/6 19/1 20/11
21/12 21/16 21/17
22/3 22/4 22/13 25/8
25/24 28/25 32/13
34/13 34/23 35/16
37/15 38/11 47/22
48/7 49/25 54/9 58/7
60/6 65/24 66/2 70/22
76/6 79/14 80/10
80/21 80/22 83/2 86/6)
87/25 88/15 88/19
92/10 94/7 96/15
96/20 96/25 98/3 99/4
100/22 104/25 107/8
108/3 108/8 108/9
109/9 109/14 110/2
110/3 110/3 110/19
111/10 113/21 114/8
114/13 119/20 121/14)
122/15 122/16 122/21
123/5 123/10 125/4
127/6 130/3 131/5
136/6 136/8 137/2
138/20 143/16 143/16)
144/21 146/1 147/6
148/9 159/12 159/13
160/13 165/7 165/17
171/11
somebody [5] 8/22
9/9 75/11 77/2 139/11
someone [16] 39/3
71/12 77/13 99/2
105/14 105/25 112/22)
118/21 134/22 135/22)
137/18 160/2 161/4
164/3 164/3 175/14
something [33] 2/1
4/10 21/14 25/1 53/7
59/10 59/20 64/23
68/9 70/18 76/11
77/25 81/14 82/5 82/9)
87/13 95/25 106/18
122/7 123/25 127/7
129/13 130/7 143/13
147/7 148/21 151/12
162/14 168/19 171/12
174/18 176/1 176/16
sometimes [2] 23/21
144/7
somewhere [2]
127/20 127/21
soon [3] 83/3 126/10
149/21
sophisticated [1]
154/24
sorry [20] 9/4 9/23
48/13 55/18 63/7
73/18 78/23 86/1 86/2
86/6 88/12 95/9 98/22
115/13 116/10 147/9
148/22 155/17 157/18
174/11
sort [15] 47/1 89/6
94/20 104/25 107/14
108/9 112/1 118/17
122/13 123/5 127/6
147/6 166/14 171/11
174/15
sorted [1] 158/23
sought [3] 16/23 18/9]
107/23
sound [1] 58/19
speak [14] 2/6 2/6
23/23 23/25 24/8 24/9
83/8 83/18 88/15
116/20 118/18 125/24
135/23 156/17
specific [16] 2/14
3/23 9/11 15/6 33/4
35/11 36/6 49/17
50/19 53/25 82/18
90/14 90/20 90/25
93/6 93/7
specifically [9] 5/12
16/14 54/7 58/18
68/21 74/7 85/16
115/5 115/6
specifics [2] 61/9
167/20
specify [1] 132/9
spend [1] 71/17
spent [1] 72/22
spoke [9] 2/24 15/3
24/14 64/16 66/11
66/16 121/7 146/17
166/13
spoken [2] 60/14
140/20
spreadsheet [1]
129/24
stack [1] 164/2
staff [17] 2/24 12/12
17/10 17/11 17/12
17/16 18/13 18/18
19/3 19/22 49/13 51/4]
62/15 62/17 62/18
63/14 113/10
staffed [1] 16/1
stage [3] 36/21 70/9
119/18
stakeholder [2]
92/24 113/4
stakeholders [2]
92/23 108/13
stamp [4] 41/5 65/9
65/10 65/18
stamps [6] 64/15
65/3 65/5 137/14
138/17 174/23
stance [1] 135/14
stand [3] 105/2
115/25 116/1
standard [3] 109/18
135/7 150/6
standards [3] 12/18
13/4 120/13
standing [3] 104/15
104/21 109/25
stands [3] 82/13
123/3 128/22
start [19] 12/25 38/16)
38/22 48/9 65/1 68/9
84/17 85/23 97/2
109/2 119/1 120/9
129/17 132/2 133/22
140/23 147/2 157/13
166/8
started [8] 4/11
21/19 49/21 61/15
65/16 73/15 153/3
162/1
starting [12] 1/11 3/7
19/10 20/23 27/24
37/24 37/25 37/25
59/8 69/14 73/24
152/24
state [4] 12/3 61/20
102/22 109/22
stated [2] 38/18
45/23
statement [54] 1/12
2/16 3/11 10/5 21/9
30/5 30/7 33/16 33/18
39/24 40/10 40/17
41/19 42/1 42/5 47/14)
47/19 50/4 53/12
56/25 57/2 58/9 59/7
62/8 62/10 71/10
80/15 91/7 101/23
102/25 103/3 103/8
103/11 103/13 104/4
104/14 106/5 110/9
110/25 113/13 116/18
118/6 118/8 126/15
129/23 130/22 135/25}
153/1 153/24 155/14
157/17 176/24 177/3
177/16
statements [6] 28/13
32/3 42/25 128/15
161/17 169/11
stating [1] 30/6
stationery [2] 103/14
103/18
Staunton [18] 73/8
73/16 78/25 80/24
110/9 110/14 118/9
164/15 164/19 165/13
166/9 167/25 170/16
170/18 171/23 171/24}
172/13 172/24
Staunton's [1]
142/13
stay [1] 4/22
steady [1] 163/17
stepping [1] 77/7
steps [6] 15/21 52/24
52/25 53/1 53/4
175/25
stewards [1] 80/4
stick [4] 1/8 55/19
65/10 65/12
sticker [1] 65/12
Sticking [2] 22/19
49/1
stifling [1] 83/14
still [22] 4/19 4/22
6/21 17/6 22/21 37/23}
38/4 61/12 63/19
63/20 66/14 80/8 80/8
90/9 98/13 102/4
102/15 106/21 141/2
159/15 161/18 162/2
STIPs [1] 54/10
stock [6] 41/5 64/16
65/5 65/18 137/21
138/7
stop [2] 143/15
174/11
stopped [1] 33/22
storage [1] 59/9
stored [1] 128/9
stores [2] 103/23
104/1
story [1] 109/11
strands [2] 52/4
94/22
strategic [16] 1/21
60/10 62/5 68/14
68/20 68/25 88/18
89/8 96/20 97/1 97/13}
97/15 97/19 97/22
98/1 100/5
strategies [1] 92/18
strategy [12] 5/10
5/15 5/15 6/5 49/22
76/16 81/9 81/12 98/7
98/8 117/17 149/15
street [3] 1/20 24/15
24/17
stressed [1] 169/25
stressful [2] 131/13
135/4
strong [1] 168/7
(71) significant - strongO
Ss
strongly [1] 166/20
structural [1] 147/16
structure [1] 76/8
struggling [1] 6/1
studies [1] 109/15
stuff [2] 115/9 139/9
stunned [1] 3/13
style [2] 136/1
147/20
styles [1] 147/21
subgroup [1] 79/17
subject [2] 48/14
80/23
subjected [1] 142/20
Subjects [1] 122/20
submission [2] 10/9
67/3
subpostmaster [7]
55/21 91/13 91/14
105/20 132/24 155/18)
168/15
subpostmasters [20]
20/6 21/11 22/7 82/22
86/16 88/6 88/7 89/20,
89/25 90/8 100/21
114/17 114/21 114/22
114/24 115/1 116/9
125/12 148/18 155/21
subsequent [1] 42/1
subsequently [1]
15/15
subsidiaries [1] 18/3
substance [1] 170/5
substantial [1] 69/6
substantive [2] 103/5I
172/4
succeed [1] 77/7
success [3] 92/6
99/24 106/13
successful [1] 172/1
succession [6] 76/19
76/21 77/18 78/8
78/14 78/19
such [25] 29/11 30/7
30/24 32/25 36/2 36/6
37/2 40/22 41/24 42/5
68/2 78/15 81/1 82/19}
89/4 92/21 97/15
111/19 113/5 134/14
141/25 145/9 160/11
161/9 162/22
sudden [1] 3/19
suffer [1] 89/22
suffers [1] 57/5
sufficient [8] 20/6
40/22 53/1 62/2
108/22 131/5 132/21
151/9
sufficiently [7] 42/24
84/13 146/20 148/12
154/24 155/15 162/7
suggest [3] 128/19
147/10 156/17
suggested [5] 45/25
55/20 87/22 111/11
171/14
suggestion [1] 164/2
suggestions [2] 24/8
147/12
suggests [1] 40/12
suicide [1] 21/22
suits [1] 83/9
sum [2] 26/1 57/15
summarise [2] 61/13
124/15,
summary [2] 12/2
15/25
summer [2] 48/8
73/4
Sunday [2] 164/15
165/1
supermarkets [1]
100/23
supervisor [1] 52/1
supplier [1] 122/10
suppliers [1] 69/23
supply [1] 126/15
support [12] 22/1
29/11 29/12 29/14
59/2 69/19 106/6
106/16 123/5 128/20
135/6 137/23
supported [1] 35/10
supporting [4] 25/24
26/3 32/24 33/8
suppose [1] 158/11
sure [28] 9/25 10/1
19/14 22/11 22/14
35/25 36/17 37/19
47/22 53/5 55/25 61/8)
67/25 74/7 87/2 87/5
90/12 99/23 101/15
110/3 118/17 127/6
127/17 143/3 144/8
163/5 172/2 173/2
surely [2] 55/6
129/14
surprise [5] 6/6
168/12 168/13 168/15)
168/18
surprised [4] 131/4
168/7 169/23 171/6
survey [11] 75/6
89/12 90/7 90/14 91/5
91/8 97/18 100/19
101/2 101/2 155/20
surveyed [1] 89/25
surveys [3] 90/18
90/19 100/25
suspected [2] 16/6
16/16
suspend [2] 159/6
159/21
suspended [3] 15/5
159/5 161/25
suspending [3]
163/23 164/3 164/5
suspension [3] 159/8I
159/9 164/7
swiftly [1] 108/19
sworn [2] 102/20
178/10
system [47] 16/11
18/21 27/6 28/11 33/9)
34/25 40/11 40/18
40/25 41/7 41/21 42/3
43/8 43/13 43/19
46/17 56/24 57/4
57/24 58/25 59/17
60/7 60/21 61/13 62/9
63/21 63/25 65/21
66/12 67/6 71/18
72/17 72/23 90/9
148/15 148/25 152/25
153/8 153/9 153/12
154/4 154/16 154/23
156/4 156/9 156/14
156/24
systems [6] 17/16
18/21 57/6 57/8 69/5
69/21
T
table [3] 17/6 17/9
136/11
take [32] 7/1 12/2
34/14 45/9 47/11 48/7
53/10 56/14 60/23
65/24 76/24 81/4
85/22 86/9 100/21
112/22 127/17 130/3
132/6 135/22 136/7
143/5 146/8 149/16
149/17 152/14 157/12
169/8 170/23 171/2
172/6 176/17
taken [18] 22/10
29/14 53/1 60/16 61/4
64/9 70/2 75/6 76/7
77/10 80/20 84/23
88/18 134/20 145/17
148/5 162/17 170/24
takes [3] 111/11
138/14 153/13
taking [15] 18/19
32/9 44/23 47/11
52/24 53/8 57/20
60/10 64/6 125/19
126/6 146/25 151/20
159/15 176/11
talent [1] 76/23
talk [6] 32/11 83/15
94/18 97/3 139/11
141/10
talked [5] 51/16
110/17 160/14 165/23
165/25
talking [5] 3/22 69/9
94/3 142/16 167/7
talks [1] 15/25
tankers [1] 82/6
targeted [1] 66/19
taxpayer [2] 56/4
72/8
Taylor [5] 50/12
82/25 86/18 115/16
165/16
team [75] 9/15 15/24
19/3 21/17 21/18 23/2
23/7 23/10 23/19
23/23 24/1 24/9 24/10)
24/10 24/14 24/20
25/18 26/22 27/14
27/15 30/3 30/4 30/8
35/10 35/15 43/8
43/20 51/16 53/8
60/22 76/4 77/21 84/2
84/3 95/3 97/25 105/7I
114/8 114/8 114/10
114/11 114/13 115/8
118/21 123/1 123/2
123/5 123/7 123/8
128/21 129/4 130/5
135/6 135/8 137/18
139/24 140/3 140/8
140/9 141/10 142/9
143/10 144/14 146/17
148/13 149/24 150/11
151/1 162/15 163/10
163/17 167/8 174/9
175/1 175/2
team' [1] 79/25
teams [11] 12/6
12/10 12/12 14/1 14/6}
23/24 32/23 85/12
114/9 140/12 165/10
tears [1] 3/22
technical [1] 41/15
technological [1]
69/5
technology [5] 68/3
69/17 69/19 69/25
156/17
tell [7] 2/7 3/12 37/21
61/11 73/6 110/11
174/15
telling [1] 90/17
temporarily [1] 7/9
ten [4] 4/1 4/8 82/6
89/5
tendency [2] 91/19
113/14
Teneo [4] 68/10
68/16 68/21 68/24
tension [1] 55/20
tenure [2] 10/10
61/18
term [11] 44/17 46/16]
49/10 54/17 75/21
98/18 98/21 99/15
111/9 163/1 167/3
terminal [4] 63/8
63/16 63/17 127/25
terminals [3] 64/10
127/22 127/22
terminals/40 [1]
127/22
terminated [1] 163/3
terminology [2]
110/20 146/21
terms [47] 9/12 15/8
20/17 22/13 35/16
39/19 44/25 49/17
55/9 55/9 60/21 61/9
61/17 62/6 62/24 65/6I
72/1 72/1 74/17 78/12I
78/16 78/16 83/13
83/14 85/23 90/23
92/14 95/18 96/15
98/4 104/9 104/20
106/3 108/16 110/8
113/12 131/19 137/8
139/18 143/24 147/19)
156/14 162/22 163/8
163/8 167/18 168/25
terrible [1] 160/11
test [4] 4/6 4/8 22/13
127/19
testimony [1] 97/8
text [1] 153/9
than [25] 18/11 39/3
53/9 74/5 79/24 98/17
99/10 105/24 106/11
117/6 126/6 127/10
129/17 133/19 134/4
134/22 143/12 144/3
147/5 147/16 159/22
162/18 165/7 173/20
175/18
thank [66] 1/6 1/7
9/21 11/13 22/25 24/1
24/7 28/18 32/21 37/9
39/7 39/8 42/15 53/11
56/13 56/17 56/21
56/22 57/1 58/1 68/7
70/15 73/3 74/19
75/14 81/2 82/20 86/3I
87/23 88/5 88/6 89/10)
93/10 100/9 100/10
100/11 100/12 101/20}
101/22 101/25 102/7
103/11 104/1 104/9
118/3 120/24 121/5
127/12 134/25 145/24)
146/8 152/13 152/19
152/23 164/21 165/3
173/6 173/16 174/7
176/18 176/23 177/1
177/9 177/10 177/14
177/15
thanks [1] 20/20
that [876]
that 1 [1] 171/17
that's [87] 6/1 6/9
6/12 7/1 13/5 16/20
16/25 19/11 22/23
24/2 24/3 25/23 33/2
34/21 35/2 36/12
(72) strongly - that'sO
T
that's... [71] 37/17
38/18 39/10 39/10
43/9 44/24 46/21 51/1
52/14 56/12 56/25
58/20 59/11 60/9
60/10 62/9 64/23 65/9
66/7 66/15 67/9 67/9
69/8 70/8 72/10 73/24
74/19 75/13 76/12
78/1 79/8 80/12 85/24)
87/20 90/5 91/2 91/10
96/6 97/7 98/10
100/10 100/18 101/11
101/17 102/4 102/6
103/5 103/23 106/23
112/8 113/21 117/2
117/23 118/4 119/24
125/24 126/12 127/10
128/22 139/22 149/17)
150/3 153/21 154/13
155/7 161/4 161/5
166/25 175/5 176/21
177/13
theft [3] 17/15 38/8
39/1
their [26] 12/7 17/16
18/13 18/17 19/3 19/3)
30/19 31/4 49/8 54/12)
63/21 66/10 106/1
117/22 125/24 138/6
139/22 141/23 144/22)
150/12 150/17 150/21
150/22 150/23 161/8
164/5
them [54] 2/7 2/15
2/15 4/9 17/25 22/11
22/12 24/10 48/22
51/10 59/20 62/16
63/15 69/17 74/18
85/4 87/11 90/23
96/16 99/5 115/2
118/2 122/16 122/24
123/4 123/10 123/19
125/24 136/25 137/4
137/12 137/20 138/9
139/13 139/14 139/16)
139/20 145/21 147/25)
148/1 148/13 151/18
151/23 155/18 155/20}
159/21 162/24 163/4
164/5 164/11 167/11
172I/7 174/17 175/4
theme [1] 91/3
themes [2] 75/3
144/24
themselves [1]
113/12
then [89] 3/5 4/11
4/19 5/10 6/3 7/11
13/7 13/14 18/12
20/12 23/24 24/12
27/15 28/5 28/25
29/17 32/15 33/19
34/17 35/17 38/9
38/11 38/21 41/7 42/6
42/10 43/5 43/22 45/7
48/5 51/2 52/10 53/21
54/9 54/21 54/25 55/6)
57/22 58/8 59/13
59/20 62/6 63/17
66/11 71/1 71/16
71/19 72/19 73/16
74/1 75/2 75/14 76/1
87/12 90/19 91/11
91/25 93/18 98/3
98/21 99/22 105/9
111/18 114/23 126/3
128/2 128/6 130/24
132/6 133/1 134/6
134/8 134/13 151/6
151/8 153/13 154/20
154/22 158/7 158/17
162/20 163/1 165/5
166/24 174/2 174/2
174/8 174/9 174/25
there [198]
there's [48] 8/19 9/11
12/3 16/19 19/8 28/25)
35/25 36/7 39/9 46/17
47/19 49/17 49/25
55/25 58/16 58/22
58/23 63/4 64/4 65/13
66/13 67/7 71/21 85/6
86/6 88/15 90/19
90/20 91/1 93/16
94/22 95/6 107/22
109/7 110/1 111/21
113/8 117/17 118/14
123/18 124/19 132/3
138/18 138/18 147/2
147/16 166/11 177/2
thereafter [3] 14/14
16/17 175/21
therefore [8] 33/6
124/10 134/4 138/8
145/16 146/6 158/6
167/23
thermal [1] 68/5
these [39] 10/11 11/8
12/8 14/12 19/24
27/16 32/11 44/20
48/21 48/23 50/16
50/21 55/11 59/2 61/9)
66/1 67/12 73/8 84/4
89/25 93/17 93/20
94/21 98/1 100/6
111/21 137/21 137/23)
137/25 146/7 155/10
155/13 159/19 160/24)
162/3 163/7 164/11
166/25 170/21
they [132] 1/15 3/20
6/1 6/4 6/6 9/12 10/1
10/1 10/11 18/7 20/9
21/10 21/12 21/25
22/14 22/15 24/19
27/1 27/4 27/5 30/13
34/12 36/10 37/21
43/14 43/18 54/14
63/23 65/1 65/7 65/7
65/10 65/12 67/14
72/2 72/13 73/25 79/9
85/4 89/22 90/12
90/22 91/16 91/23
95/16 96/12 96/12
96/14 96/15 96/16
97/2 98/21 101/1
105/8 105/22 105/24
105/24 106/2 106/16
108/6 108/7 109/8
109/22 110/3 110/7
112/21 115/9 117/5
117/7 120/6 122/14
123/7 123/13 128/24
129/22 129/25 130/16
130/18 130/20 130/20}
130/21 130/22 131/23
134/22 135/9 135/12
137/4 137/6 137/7
137/8 137/9 137/9
138/2 138/10 138/16
138/19 138/23 139/2
139/2 139/13 139/13
139/13 139/14 139/21
139/24 142/9 144/4
147/10 147/12 148/1
151/1 151/21 155/12
155/15 155/20 155/25
159/21 160/10 160/11
160/17 160/25 161/1
161/9 162/5 162/6
162/7 167/23 172/2
174/8 174/11 174/17
175/25
they'd [4] 123/12
132/17 137/19 175/15}
they're [13] 54/23
72/11 90/9 95/13
95/16 123/4 124/20
137/4 138/14 142/9
149/11 165/24 171/25)
they've [4] 9/13 61/8
89/23 110/6
thing [10] 72/21 89/6
113/1 113/1 113/3
122/13 138/10 150/25)
174/25 175/13
things [23] 3/4 21/24
36/10 82/4 90/4 90/13
112/5 114/14 122/16
132/1 134/19 135/15
138/18 139/23 141/22
144/2 160/24 161/9
167/7 168/25 169/1
169/13 171/14
think [140] 8/16
10/16 10/20 11/5 13/5
19/10 20/24 21/14
22/23 24/3 24/13
30/13 34/8 38/12
43/10 49/15 51/7 53/1
57/7 58/7 69/8 70/5
75/10 80/9 82/15 83/4,
91/11 91/14 91/18
93/8 94/20 94/22
95/20 95/24 97/7
100/18 101/10 102/16}
105/19 105/22 106/11
106/16 106/21 106/25
107/1 107/13 107/19
107/21 107/22 108/12)
108/14 108/16 108/25
109/2 109/4 112/4
112/8 112/25 113/2
113/2 113/3 113/8
113/9 114/12 115/23
117/23 118/12 118/12}
120/17 122/24 125/24}
127/16 129/9 134/15
137/1 137/13 138/18
142/25 143/16 143/22}
146/25 147/2 147/17
147/19 148/8 150/3
150/7 150/10 150/13
150/18 150/24 152/2
152/3 152/7 152/9
153/24 155/21 156/4
156/5 156/10 156/15
156/21 157/5 157/17
158/12 158/18 162/11
162/18 163/19 164/14
165/1 165/13 166/2
166/11 167/13 167/14}
168/7 168/10 168/19
168/21 168/23 169/1
169/17 169/21 170/1
170/4 170/15 170/20
171/14 171/18 171/20
172/18 172/19 173/10}
173/24 175/12 175/16}
175/23 176/4 176/15
thinking [11] 2/4
35/16 36/7 38/24
54/20 65/20 92/9
105/22 114/13 114/14}
169/21
thinks [1] 52/3
third [10] 19/17
29/24 32/19 32/25
38/20 41/8 44/21 64/2,
139/1 166/9
thirdly [1] 62/23
this [375]
Thomas [1] 177/6
Thornton [7] 73/4
73/19 74/7 172/5
172/10 172/12 172/15
those [51] 1/11 1/14
11/4 13/13 15/16 18/1
21/13 26/12 31/24
37/21 43/14 45/3
55/22 61/24 69/4 70/2
73/7 74/19 76/13 81/4
82/12 85/22 87/23
109/21 114/16 116/20)
116/23 117/20 124/22)
130/14 135/14 139/11
148/3 148/4 148/9
148/18 149/13 150/10)
150/14 150/18 153/6
155/19 155/22 156/2
159/15 165/9 171/13
172/6 172/8 173/4
176/3
though [4] 135/15
138/3 164/23 166/7
thought [13] 5/24
5/25 22/4 36/12 77/11
80/4 105/24 111/9
124/2 129/7 134/18
144/5 172/1
threats [2] 21/21
21/23
three [16] 28/12
29/17 50/4 60/2 60/12!
63/6 76/5 85/9 89/4
95/23 116/21 125/7
134/24 138/18 140/9
166/25
Three-quarters [1]
76/5
threw [1] 171/17
through [42] 3/21
4/25 5/25 6/16 6/21
16/10 18/2 22/8 36/8
50/2 73/10 75/5 78/2
81/1 81/3 82/5 83/16
86/12 93/24 96/11
114/20 115/7 118/6
118/22 123/11 127/19)
128/2 139/11 140/11
145/4 153/6 154/20
157/11 157/25 158/25)
158/25 164/11 170/11
172/6 172/7 175/2
175/24
throughout [3] 49/21
50/21 53/16
Thursday [3] 7/8
177/112 177/18
Tidswell [7] 35/12
52/3 70/11 70/14
74/13 173/1 173/3
tie [2] 49/13 153/16
tied [1] 55/6
tier [3] 76/7 79/13
163/14
tiered [1] 31/21
tiering [1] 165/19
till [4] 127/25 128/1
153/22 154/24
time [67] 4/16 7/19
9/19 11/6 22/23 26/19I
29/4 31/24 32/7 43/16
44/14 49/8 50/19
59/18 63/23 65/21
68/5 75/4 77/2 78/19
80/20 82/7 82/24
(73) that's... - timeO.
T
time... [44] 83/11
83/17 83/20 85/13
86/21 87/15 102/3
103/23 104/16 106/1
109/12 110/3 110/18
112/8 113/24 117/22
120/18 123/11 125/4
128/24 130/3 131/12
132/23 134/3 134/9
138/16 138/21 139/14
146/1 150/19 152/10
152/11 154/5 154/14
154/15 157/12 160/23)
161/2 164/21 167/12
168/3 168/11 172/24
176/15
times [9] 42/8 54/20
92/16 114/14 117/15
134/24 149/13 151/8
176/5
timing [1] 51/12
title [3] 132/21 133/2
133/3
today [21] 9/8 14/24
47/12 52/14 52/16
78/5 82/17 99/10
101/24 111/5 120/1
141/10 148/7 149/18
159/13 161/10 161/14
164/21 167/2 172/6
173/8
today's [1] 104/5
together [15] 46/15
72/11 82/7 83/16
87/10 92/15 96/1 96/2
117/14 140/12 147/3
152/1 152/12 154/12
169/19
tokenist [1] 83/12
told [34] 1/12 9/7
21/10 27/5 43/18
43/20 51/21 55/4
55/18 59/11 59/18
61/9 63/4 63/7 72/18
72/19 86/22 90/25
91/4 94/9 109/6 115/5)
115/5 123/7 124/16
124/17 138/3 138/10
139/13 139/13 139/15}
143/5 161/21 174/19
tolerance [2] 154/1
154/2
tolerated [1] 52/16
tomorrow [4] 65/11
143/4 161/11 177/11
tonality [6] 19/6 22/8
24/18 35/18 94/20
136/15
tone [3] 116/25
135/14 151/21
too [5] 58/19 77/3
77/9 98/13 176/5
took [14] 4/9 22/4
105/2 109/12 112/4
139/7 173/22 174/2
175/10 175/14
took place [1] 174/2
tool [1] 14/11
top [10] 16/22 19/19
24/2 52/20 85/7 85/8
128/13 131/2 170/18
171/22
topic [11] 1/8 9/21
10/3 41/22 42/6 53/11
56/23 82/21 91/24
118/3 172/4
topics [3] 29/17
133/10 152/24
torn [1] 5/8
totally [5] 59/24
87/12 87/13 87/21
161/4
touched [1] 155/25
tough [2] 3/6 83/17
71/20 72/12 73/16
164/7 164/8
town [2] 1/21 2/18
TP [2] 127/9 127/10
trace [1] 174/15
traced [1] 148/25
Tracy [6] 4/12 50/20
50/20 84/18 87/4 87/6
trading [3] 127/11
127/13 141/17
train [2] 9/6 106/12
trained [1] 62/18
training [18] 10/21
10/22 11/3 11/11 14/8)
23/21 58/24 59/1
62/22 66/12 106/3
106/6 106/12 108/21
108/22 108/25 145/8
145/18
transaction [7] 41/1
51/17 51/21 127/3
127/15 129/25 130/2
transactions [8]
57/18 57/23 67/15
67/16 127/17 127/21
153/14 154/17
transcript [1] 177/5
transform [1] 67/21
Transformation [1]
93/22
transition [1] 105/5
translating [1] 20/11
travel [1] 89/5
travelled [1] 140/7
treat [2] 2/8 146/20
treated [9] 14/15
14/17 21/12 24/22
24/22 56/6 88/25
90/10 146/13
22/14 31/25 36/1 77/8
touch [2] 84/14 130/4
towards [7] 18/8 44/7,
treating [1] 18/16
treatment [1] 39/15
tremendous [1]
142/19
triage [1] 13/22
tried [2] 104/24
126/22
trilateral [1] 27/17
troubled [1] 48/18
true [4] 103/8 111/3
113/17 166/7
trust [8] 46/3 50/15
76/4 79/12 82/8 150/5
150/8 166/23
trusted [1] 83/18
truth [2] 18/9 168/22
try [7] 3/3 3/7 15/9
23/17 24/23 105/3
171/11
trying [17] 3/19 6/24
18/24 18/24 18/25
23/12 24/18 60/20
65/18 67/10 71/24
72/2 88/14 97/10
128/2 150/22 172/20
Tudor [2] 7/13 7/18
Tuesday [2] 1/1 7/8
tunnel [1] 67/7
turn [47] 5/3 11/16
12/1 13/18 15/19 17/4
19/19 22/20 25/8 25/9}
25/10 37/9 42/11 48/8
66/1 68/10 68/14 70/7
70/15 74/21 75/14
78/7 79/8 80/12 80/13
81/2 83/20 84/16
103/4 111/4 114/19
119/1 119/25 126/13
132/2 135/15 140/23
144/10 144/11 157/16
158/24 164/12 166/8
166/18 167/24 169/6
170/11
turned [2] 102/16
123/11
turnover [1] 162/22
turns [1] 160/14
twice [1] 57/21
two [37] 1/9 8/3
33/19 46/22 47/4 50/9
54/6 60/1 60/7 60/12
63/6 67/15 73/3 73/4
73/7 76/7 79/10 79/13
82/12 85/19 96/23
112/1 112/5 140/12
144/24 147/23 150/22
151/22 151/25 152/9
152/9 153/18 160/17
165/15 165/19 169/1
174/12
two-minute [1] 112/1
two-tiering [1]
165/19
two/three [1] 60/12
type [4] 13/12 93/20
105/19 116/16
types [2] 1/21 89/25
typically [1] 133/23
typing [1] 134/23
U
UK [4] 16/9 27/12
27/15 74/25
UKGI [2] 10/22 74/12
ultimately [1] 139/19
unable [1] 152/12
unacceptable [4]
6/18 16/25 38/1 46/1
unclear [1] 144/7
uncomfortable [1]
86/23
unconnected [1]
34/17
uncovered [1] 40/4
under [14] 15/25
72/16 77/12 97/22
132/6 133/8 142/15
163/17 167/11 167/13}
167/15 167/16 168/1
168/2
underestimated [1]
106/11
underlying [2] 18/21
129/4
understand [39] 1/17)
4/3 20/10 20/13 25/23)
26/2 37/13 39/7 46/15
58/14 85/2 91/23
95/17 99/18 108/3
109/2 109/3 109/5
116/4 122/7 122/24
127/16 128/25 129/1
132/15 133/15 134/17)
135/9 142/18 143/9
144/16 145/25 148/22
156/1 159/14 161/8
161/23 167/3 170/15
understandable [1]
176/8
understandably [1]
79/22
understanding [11]
11/7 73/9 94/14
101/11 125/8 131/17
133/10 156/12 160/9
164/25 173/2
understands [1] 50/2
understood [6] 1/19
21/11 51/7 100/17
157/3 169/24
undertake [1] 71/5
undertaken [4] 12/15)
12/23 41/25 120/7
undertakes [1] 13/12
undertaking [1]
32/18
underway [1] 161/21
unexplained [1]
89/24
unfair [3] 20/22
20/25 116/13
unfairly [1] 176/1
unfortunate [1] 45/15
unfortunately [20]
2/13 5/1 6/4 6/7 15/13}
17/3 23/19 38/4 48/6
63/20 64/12 65/13
67/10 72/8 74/9 79/7
82/3 83/17 83/19
96/17
unhealthy [1] 53/13
unhelpful [5] 20/22
73/23 74/14 74/15
7417
unifying [2] 76/16
81/11
uninformed [1] 139/1
union [2] 80/4 116/20)
unique [2] 103/3
114/10
unit [6] 16/1 19/22
23/3 43/9 119/8
121/21
Universal [3] 103/14
119/10 122/3
unjustified [1] 53/14
unlearned [1] 98/13
unless [5] 62/11
96/22 100/14 156/5
173/18
unnecessarily [1]
57/8
unreasonable [3]
145/10 145/14 176/13)
unreliable [2] 27/6
43/19
unsatisfactory [1]
142/15
unsecured [1]
171/15
unsupported [1]
137/22
until [18] 9/8 11/10
14/24 21/9 28/3 46/16)
48/21 54/13 54/13
78/12 94/15 96/17
98/6 159/18 160/5
160/16 175/14 177/17)
untouchable [3]
167/4 167/10 167/23
unusual [1] 101/9
UOE [1] 145/4
up [64] 6/9 8/6 16/23
17/5 19/6 22/2 23/18
24/2 26/8 37/7 46/19
49/17 51/13 52/2 54/2
54/5 59/22 62/11 84/3}
86/23 88/15 92/1 92/6
98/6 99/24 106/13
107/16 108/15 109/19)
111/12 111/18 112/22)
113/23 114/18 121/4
(74) time... - upO
U
up... [29] 128/13
129/9 129/19 131/2
135/3 135/11 135/15
136/8 138/1 140/7
140/8 140/15 141/9
141/12 142/13 142/18)
148/7 149/13 157/18
160/5 160/16 162/17
165/3 170/18 172/3
173/11 175/13 175/17)
176/16
upcoming [2] 81/21
170/14
update [4] 52/25
68/15 112/1 151/17
updated [1] 141/18
updates [1] 46/13
upgrade [1] 68/2
upon [7] 1/16 68/19
93/25 104/15 105/9
134/14 150/14
upper [1] 155/22
upset [1] 142/19
upsetting [1] 4/6
urgency [1] 2/13
us [59] 2/8 3/12 10/8
21/12 23/9 24/16 27/1
35/6 47/17 50/8 50/11
50/12 53/15 61/14
64/22 67/15 67/19
67/21 67/22 68/2 68/4,
71/6 73/6 73/25 83/13
83/14 84/7 86/6 86/15
94/9 97/17 102/4
104/17 104/22 106/12)
106/13 106/25 108/4
110/11 110/19 111/14
113/2 113/20 115/3
115/10 118/10 126/17)
126/21 129/14 131/12
135/1 157/19 161/8
163/5 164/8 165/15
170/1 170/24 174/10
usability [1] 62/9
use [7] 14/6 14/10
44/17 110/20 147/21
149/20 156/1
used [13] 5/20 17/22
17/23 28/9 33/23
39/20 42/20 44/2
44/20 44/25 55/2
64/12 74/17
useful [1] 90/14
user [1] 153/8
user-friendly [1]
153/8
users [1] 41/6
using [8] 17/16 30/20
49/10 58/25 67/23
153/4 154/16 156/5
using/misusing [1]
17/16
usual [1] 45/22
utilises [1] 12/11
Vv
value [1] 56/5
variety [1] 58/16
various [5] 49/22
69/3 104/4 111/18
138/21
vast [1] 140/14
Vennells [2] 97/8
98/13
verify [2] 139/23
153/22
verifying [1] 38/20
versed [1] 79/2
version [2] 66/8
129/22
versus [1] 81/16
very [103] 1/6 1/7
1/18 2/12 4/3 4/16 5/8
6/5 6/5 6/21 11/11
14/20 14/21 15/4 15/4
20/9 20/10 20/16
20/18 21/22 23/24
33/19 38/15 38/16
45/5 45/8 51/10 52/19
53/11 55/13 55/15
56/17 59/18 62/13
63/9 63/12 63/23 64/6
64/7 64/8 67/10 67/15
67/15 67/24 67/24
71/14 74/3 75/23 76/1
79/18 79/22 82/5 82/5)
82/21 84/1 87/14
88/23 89/3 93/2 95/11
95/12 96/10 98/1
99/16 101/22 101/22
103/11 110/14 110/15)
111/16 117/14 117/1
124/5 131/6 134/9
135/8 136/13 136/16
143/13 150/7 152/19
156/19 156/21 158/22,
160/19 162/13 162/13}
164/4 165/19 166/15
166/22 168/1 169/18
169/25 171/10 172/5
172/13 172/16 172/19)
176/23 176/25 177/9
177/14
victim [11] 17/20
27/9 27/21 38/1 38/9
38/10 38/14 38/15
44/3 45/2 94/18
victim's [1] 37/25
victims [2] 17/18
17/20
view [21] 8/15 20/5
27/20 30/12 70/2
76/20 82/1 105/23
108/22 125/16 125/18)
130/6 139/6 146/10
154/8 159/16 162/3
164/6 165/10 166/20
169/13
iewpoints [1] 108/1
views [12] 9/17 10/8
22/10 22/17 34/6 76/6
81/17 92/6 108/11
117/16 117/19 142/21
vis [2] 117/20 117/20
vis a vis [1] 117/20
visibility [4] 13/9
20/16 75/20 76/10
ision [1] 67/7
visit [10] 1/22 23/7
23/10 51/19 51/19
125/22 138/2 138/13
138/23 139/22
visited [3] 1/13 1/24
51/23
visiting [1] 86/20
visits [3] 62/14 94/11
137/4
visual [1] 153/8
vital [1] 33/10
vocal [1] 85/15
voice [9] 3/14 101/3
116/18 116/25 117/4
117/9 117/12 117/14
117/21
voices [1] 92/15
voluntary [3] 117/21
122/4 124/25
vs [1] 168/6
vs The [1] 168/6
vulnerable [1] 5/9
Wo
wade [2] 128/2
154/20
wage [1] 159/15
wages [1] 113/9
wait [3] 86/2 86/5
159/18
waiting [2] 62/5 92/1
walk [2] 118/22
154/19
walking [1] 139/9
Wallis [1] 109/12
Walton [2] 25/20 26/9
want [27] 19/5 34/14
35/13 50/20 60/6
63/15 64/23 64/23
65/7 85/2 85/4 87/18
91/16 92/25 93/4
97/12 112/1 130/8
137/24 148/1 157/12
163/12 165/20 165/21
174/16 175/25 177/4
wanted [21] 1/20 3/4
5/18 18/18 19/8 26/2
35/11 73/11 78/9
83/15 83/15 87/20
91/24 105/2 106/19
110/9 110/15 110/15
138/24 142/12 150/25
wants [2] 106/22
129/6
warmth [1] 136/16
was [446]
wasn't [22] 2/21 5/12
15/12 21/9 28/3 46/14}
50/6 53/23 61/1 67/18)
79/5 101/5 105/4
130/15 132/17 132/21
139/3 139/21 151/19
151/20 158/4 174/20
wasted [2] 72/7
72/15
watch [1] 109/19
watched [1] 51/23
watching [2] 23/11
24/21
way [52] 6/21 9/17
20/13 22/8 34/7 46/17,
50/14 55/16 66/18
67/11 67/21 69/12
72/13 73/14 74/4 74/4)
76/5 85/14 93/8
103/12 105/1 107/7
107/10 107/12 107/19}
133/22 134/18 134/22)
134/24 136/4 136/13
141/22 143/16 146/12)
146/18 148/10 149/12)
149/15 149/25 151/25]
154/12 154/18 156/2
158/19 158/20 159/20}
167/21 168/20 172/3
174/16 175/18 176/6
ways [2] 107/25
142/7
we [449]
we'd [7] 110/17
135/20 158/20 165/18}
166/3 169/18 169/25
we'll [13] 18/1 81/4
86/2 86/5 101/21
114/16 118/6 119/1
124/21 138/22 157/11
164/11 177/11
we're [25] 1/8 2/7 2/8
9/21 22/21 22/21
34/10 47/11 50/15
56/23 58/25 60/3
65/20 70/15 92/1
93/21 102/13 102/18
109/2 114/6 115/22
119/22 151/4 152/23
173/14
we've [41] 4/16 9/14
15/3 29/19 40/6 41/18
47/2 50/17 54/15
55/19 58/21 59/22
64/8 68/4 69/8 70/16
72/18 72/18 73/14
76/21 82/16 82/17
84/23 87/17 100/3
107/20 108/8 111/5
114/2 143/1 149/18
158/25 158/25 161/12!
162/10 163/3 164/10
165/23 165/25 172/7
173/25
website [2] 49/5
103/12
Wednesday [1] 7/15
week [4] 44/14 65/22
83/5 131/10
weekend [1] 165/1
weekly [3] 49/4 49/4
57/11
weeks [6] 24/11
88/21 117/2 140/14
142/18 154/14
weighty [1] 113/22
welcome [1] 34/4
welcoming [1] 48/24
well [50] 2/25 36/16
40/23 51/1 51/4 56/6
58/20 69/11 74/16
79/2 83/2 93/14 93/22I
100/16 101/21 102/2
107/13 110/21 112/20)
114/12 115/5 115/19
116/10 116/16 117/21
122/9 130/7 135/3
136/5 137/4 139/8
142/6 143/10 152/9
154/2 155/15 157/22
162/10 162/24 163/4
163/10 164/8 167/14
167/15 168/11 171/7
172/24 174/5 175/23
176/9
went [17] 34/7 54/21
55/1 71/18 87/12
114/19 130/14 130/16
130/19 132/23 135/17)
140/11 157/25 162/24)
170/11 175/2 176/5
were [155] 4/20 5/19
5/25 9/10 10/1 10/11
10/11 11/9 11/12
14/12 14/12 14/22
15/9 17/23 19/1 20/19}
21/24 22/6 22/10
22/17 23/9 24/22
24/22 26/18 27/5
31/15 31/23 33/5
35/19 36/4 36/10
38/19 42/8 43/18 48/2
49/10 50/7 50/16 53/4)
55/11 59/11 59/14
59/18 59/18 61/4 61/7
61/21 63/4 63/6 67/16
67/16 67/17 67/23
71/24 72/2 73/11 74/6I
TAIT 75/11 77/1
77/11 77/12 77/12
77I17 80/4 80/8 83/16}
83/17 83/18 84/9
86/23 87/2 87/7 87/21
90/7 90/24 90/25 91/9
(75) up... - wereO
Ww
were... [77] 96/16
97/2 97/22 99/10
104/21 105/1 105/22
106/9 106/16 107/17
109/7 109/8 109/25
111/14 112/13 112/23}
115/5 115/5 115/6
115/14 115/23 119/18}
121/23 123/7 126/23
128/15 130/14 130/18
130/21 132/24 134/19
135/10 136/23 136/23}
137/21 138/11 139/8
139/9 139/11 139/13
139/14 140/14 145/8
146/13 150/20 150/20}
151/20 151/21 157/17)
159/12 159/22 159/25
160/6 160/10 160/15
160/17 160/18 160/22)
160/23 160/24 161/18
165/12 166/1 166/2
167/7 167/9 167/14
167/23 168/2 168/17
168/18 170/8 170/20
173/4 175/5 175/7
176/3
weren't [4] 94/15
101/19 115/17 162/5
what [186]
what's [32] 5/21 8/2
14/21 15/22 18/25
23/11 27/20 30/12
30/12 35/17 36/10
50/9 60/20 61/17
76/19 79/3 80/1 82/1
90/17 91/4 96/7 99/14
123/21 130/6 130/6
143/24 146/10 154/3
155/24 160/12 162/3
166/15
whatever [9] 65/7
92/25 93/17 110/20
135/12 135/13 148/1
157/1 175/19
whatsoever [1] 87/16)
when [96] 2/5 2/5 2/6
2/19 3/23 4/11 11/4
13/5 14/13 14/18 15/2)
15/5 15/14 18/13
18/18 18/22 19/24
20/22 23/22 24/10
24/14 27/24 33/14
35/19 36/2 36/11
36/12 41/5 44/14
44/20 47/20 48/1 49/7
49/20 50/4 50/16
51/17 54/14 54/18
55/13 55/14 55/22
58/6 58/9 58/17 60/14,
64/11 65/15 65/20
71/23 73/20 76/25
79/4 86/17 86/20
87/15 89/15 96/18
97/1 98/4 100/19
100/25 104/1 104/20
109/3 110/2 112/2
113/9 114/12 114/19
115/7 120/14 122/13
124/1 124/11 131/25
137/22 138/2 139/20
140/2 140/22 147/5
151/22 153/4 156/15
159/6 160/6 160/10
160/17 160/23 165/9
174/11 175/5
where [36] 15/8
17/17 32/23 34/10
44/16 48/4 53/4 71/17
72/9 73/22 76/7 93/6
97/18 109/2 110/12
110/23 113/4 114/1
114/5 117/22 125/21
128/8 136/7 137/6
137/8 143/11 149/2
149/3 150/1 150/4
156/7 159/24 162/14
169/9 169/24 172/14
where's [1] 19/9
whereas [3] 54/3
63/5 97/23
Wherever [1] 137/7
whether [25] 13/1
17/20 18/7 20/5 20/6
29/15 37/19 65/9
66/18 67/1 70/23
99/23 100/7 107/8
107/9 112/18 119/18
120/10 142/8 143/4
144/8 145/10 149/5
159/16 159/18
which [101] 2/22
4/10 5/15 8/5 8/10
14/21 14/25 15/2
18/16 18/20 27/23
28/23 28/24 29/8 32/2
34/2 35/4 35/23 41/3
41/10 42/2 46/4 50/13
52/16 53/17 53/20
54/15 54/17 55/6 60/3
64/13 65/19 67/11
68/4 71/25 72/6 72/22
79/9 79/16 81/9 81/21
82/4 84/1 85/14 85/15
90/13 91/16 93/10
97/19 98/4 98/8
109/12 110/17 114/2
114/3 115/20 117/12
121/7 122/11 124/14
126/8 127/13 127/23
128/1 128/11 128/17
128/24 129/7 129/15
129/23 130/19 131/21
132/11 133/8 133/11
134/1 134/9 135/11
167/19 169/16 172/13)
138/7 138/20 138/22
138/23 138/25 139/2
139/16 140/15 144/6
148/6 148/8 150/19
161/23 162/1 162/13
167/7 168/6 169/3
169/4 169/16 172/20
174/2 175/7
while [5] 3/22 44/5
92/1 115/2 170/5
whilst [7] 12/11
109/24 136/15 141/5
159/5 162/12 164/5
who [81] 2/17 2/19
3/15 3/17 4/20 6/3 9/9
9/12 10/18 21/20
25/20 27/17 41/20
47/25 49/22 50/22
51/5 51/15 52/3 52/12
58/5 60/17 63/11 74/3
TAIT 74/15 75/11 77/6
80/24 87/18 87/19
92/20 94/3 95/24
96/24 97/16 99/13
100/23 107/11 109/7
110/4 112/3 113/10
115/12 115/14 117/13}
119/3 121/12 123/2
131/15 135/6 135/22
137/17 137/18 141/21
146/17 148/18 155/19}
158/7 159/25 160/2
160/6 160/6 160/9
160/19 160/21 160/22}
161/4 161/7 161/8
161/18 161/25 162/8
162/16 164/9 167/9
168/17 171/12 172/22I
174/9 174/12
who's [2] 59/22
144/8
whoever [1] 36/1
whole [2] 31/23
175/13
wholly [1] 150/3
whom [2] 159/12
159/13
whose [1] 74/6
WHSmith [1] 97/15
why [41] 3/3 5/23
9/13 15/11 19/16 23/9
25/6 27/25 35/23 36/2
36/4 37/21 46/24
47/22 50/17 54/22
55/25 59/19 60/12
65/16 65/19 72/4 80/2
87/2 96/8 97/11
105/17 111/2 111/3
112/16 115/17 140/17
141/11 143/19 158/10}
159/5 159/7 162/22
169/13 171/5 174/20
Wibsey [4] 1/11 1/15
1/25 3/6
wide [4] 1/18 81/12
92/22 111/16
wider [22] 2/6 2/11
10/18 11/7 14/17
18/10 22/1 35/21
53/20 54/22 55/16
60/19 60/25 61/2
61/10 64/22 72/10
80/7 91/15 96/23
163/7 164/41
widest [1] 117/16
wifi [1] 64/12
23/22 27/15 28/14
29/12 29/13 30/7
32/18 33/13 34/4
44/16 44/20 46/4
47/12 51/5 60/11
69/19 85/18 87/15
88/19 90/22 100/6
103/11 121/11 121/16}
125/10 125/14 126/9
128/17 128/17 129/14}
129/22 129/24 129/25}
130/3 130/3 132/5
132/6 133/13 134/2
134/6 134/8 134/10
134/13 136/21 137/25}
139/17 141/5 141/10
156/15 156/24
Williams [5] 47/20
100/15 173/19 178/8
178/14
Wilson [1] 9/2
window [1] 84/24
wise [1] 134/15
wish [8] 66/25
110/20 121/15 124/24,
125/4 125/11 133/11
150/16
withdraw [1] 95/9
withdrawal [3]
139/17 141/4 141/19
withdraws [1] 144/10
within [50] 2/7 4/1
4I6 4/9 6/24 11/7
12/12 12/24 19/23
34/9 35/21 38/2 44/25
45/18 48/19 53/12
54/8 60/12 60/18
60/22 61/1 71/8 72/4
76/23 79/7 80/7 80/9
91/20 93/3 95/2 96/9
111/17 113/5 119/7
119/9 120/8 121/21
122/3 143/20 144/4
144/6 146/15 148/13
155/15 156/8 156/11
158/13 159/19 163/7
173/11
without [11] 6/17
30/6 61/3 76/8 93/17
129/6 130/8 131/7
143/14 143/14 162/19
will [53] 2/2 16/1 21/3
WITN00960100 [1]
177/17
WITN11170100 [1]
56/25
WITN11180100 [2]
103/4 153/1
WITN11180101 [3]
119/1 120/22 126/12
WITN11180102 [1]
121/17
WITN11180103 [1]
132/2
WITN11180104 [1]
144/11
witness [32] 1/12
3/10 8/25 10/4 21/9
28/13 30/5 39/24 40/9I
40/17 42/1 50/3 56/25)
57/2 58/9 62/8 62/10
101/22 102/25 103/3
103/11 110/9 113/13
116/18 118/6 135/23
153/1 153/24 155/14
157/16 176/24 177/3
witnesses [1] 159/11
won't [5] 62/10 89/19
104/13 172/6 177/11
wonder [1] 107/8
Wood [2] 24/14 24/16
Woodley [5] 42/10
44/10 45/11 51/8
151/23
word [3] 44/2 108/14
112/1
words [3] 38/15
TAINT 166/17
work [26] 18/24 23/8
24/7 46/15 46/19
75/20 80/15 80/19
86/6 96/16 111/17
111/17 117/25 128/25)
130/8 135/9 141/25
147/3 148/15 150/6
150/11 151/16 152/1
152/12 157/18 174/9
worked [4] 140/12
148/18 161/1 174/10
workers [4] 31/4
39/22 42/22 116/19
working [10] 3/18
38/4 60/18 67/14
67/19 72/12 90/9 94/1
129/15 140/12
works [4] 125/22
146/19 161/8 173/12
world [5] 5/8 107/5
125/20 134/10 156/7
worries [1] 4/23
worry [2] 131/9
131/18
worrying [1] 167/2
worse [2] 86/10
135/16
worth [1] 127/21
(76) were... - worthO
Ww
Y
would [112] 6/8 8/14
8/18 9/19 10/1 13/3
15/6 15/7 17/13 18/15)
19/16 21/22 23/25
27/10 28/20 30/20
32/6 32/11 33/15
36/25 37/7 40/13
40/19 41/12 43/2
46/11 46/23 47/1 47/5)
51/22 53/6 53/8 53/9
55/23 61/2 65/6 65/8
65/10 67/21 67/21
70/11 80/10 82/17
83/24 89/3 93/20
93/22 94/4 94/21 99/9
104/22 105/11 105/14}
105/24 106/23 107/19
110/14 111/12 112/5
112/6 112/18 112/22
112/22 112/25 113/1
113/2 115/15 116/17
118/21 119/10 120/12
121/2 122/11 122/23
123/25 124/13 125/22)
126/4 127/20 128/1
129/12 132/24 134/15
135/16 138/7 141/6
144/5 144/5 145/13
146/7 147/18 150/7
151/17 152/4 155/12
156/17 159/21 162/20)
165/7 165/13 169/10
170/5 170/9 170/21
170/23 171/9 171/21
173/3 173/9 174/19
175/23 176/11
wouldn't [9] 6/6 51/5
77/9 116/10 116/10
116/13 120/20 140/5
151/18
wrap [1] 176/15
wrapped [3] 142/18
175/13 175/17
write [4] 32/2 42/14
134/18 176/17
writing [9] 7/6 29/7
39/17 45/17 48/15
84/20 123/12 144/19
169/10
written [7] 20/14
30/12 48/9 74/4 74/5
141/3 176/4
wrong [4] 60/13
125/25 154/4 161/9
wrongdoings [1]
35/10
wrongly [2] 51/12
124/18
wrongs [1] 34/3
wrote [1] 170/7
Wyn [5] 46/4 100/15
173/19 178/8 178/14
Yateley [6] 3/9 3/18
5/22 7/7 7/14 9/17
yeah [15] 11/10 23/4
24/5 25/2 36/17 37/3
46/24 66/17 69/14
89/9 113/16 124/3
136/3 149/1 165/2
year [29] 15/20 21/1
34/17 34/18 36/21
54/16 60/5 65/15
68/11 70/8 71/16
71/20 71/21 77/4 77/6
83/21 89/5 92/16 98/7
102/25 119/5 127/18
127/19 144/12 151/8
163/5 174/3 175/11
175/14
years [18] 54/6 60/2
60/7 60/12 61/18
71/25 72/2 72/3 85/9
99/15 110/5 120/17
122/9 122/10 156/25
156/25 162/1 169/2
yes [111] 1/6 1/17
6/11 6/13 8/4 8/7 8/9
8/13 8/14 9/24 10/3
10/24 25/15 25/17
28/22 37/2 37/16
37/23 38/21 39/4 39/6)
43/11 44/9 44/10
45/13 46/10 46/10
46/25 47/5 47/6 52/9
56/16 56/22 56/22
57/25 58/4 58/13
61/15 63/10 64/4
68/13 68/18 69/10
69/12 75/23 76/12
76/14 76/18 76/21
78/6 78/21 79/20
80/24 81/24 82/11
84/11 86/2 88/13
88/13 89/14 89/21
90/2 90/2 90/16 91/6
92/5 94/12 94/17 97/4
99/1 99/2 99/21
100/14 100/24 101/8
101/13 102/6 103/2
103/16 103/19 103/22)
104/12 106/20 112/12)
118/12 125/17 127/4
129/5 133/1 133/3
147/17 152/18 153/5
153/18 156/21 165/6
170/7 170/17 172/11
174/4 174/13 174/14
174/24 174/24 174/25)
175/2 175/11 175/16
177/12 177/13 177/14)
yesterday [24] 9/5
15/4 19/5 24/18 28/22
31/20 54/13 64/17
78/4 80/3 82/3 84/22
86/9 89/12 94/9 99/10
101/23 107/15 143/6
161/10 161/14 163/20
169/7 170/12
yet [13] 4/24 34/11
60/16 62/1 67/19
88/12 88/16 100/2
100/8 141/18 147/10
173/15 177/4
you [631]
you'd [10] 74/18
122/15 122/16 122/17I
136/6 136/6 136/7
136/7 136/8 158/11
you'll [3] 89/19
117/12 141/16
you're [24] 23/23
36/25 39/5 46/12
49/14 50/10 51/2
63/13 63/13 63/16
65/17 79/1 85/20 89/7
90/1 111/22 112/16
113/9 117/10 142/3
144/13 148/2 155/18
164/4
you've [51] 5/25 8/5
10/5 17/21 21/8 34/11
36/17 47/13 47/14
57/2 62/8 63/14 63/17,
73/19 78/4 79/18
80/21 90/3 92/7 94/9
103/13 104/5 106/4
107/9 110/8 110/25
113/13 116/7 116/18
117/4 117/5 118/5
129/9 130/14 131/20
137/1 137/13 146/18
146/22 148/21 152/6
153/6 153/24 155/2
155/13 157/17 158/18
165/3 168/12 168/20
168/20
YouGov [4] 89/16
90/13 90/22 114/18
your [159] 1/10 1/12
1/13 3/10 8/15 9/17
10/4 10/8 10/20 11/18
14/12 20/5 21/8 21/8
22/10 23/7 24/7 24/8
24/10 27/15 27/20
30/12 32/2 32/12
33/13 34/4 35/6 37/4
38/25 39/23 41/2
42/14 42/19 44/8 47/8
47/13 48/15 53/12
56/25 57/2 58/9 59/7
62/8 62/10 63/18
63/20 67/4 70/2 75/10
75/24 76/15 76/19
80/1 81/16 82/1 82/22
82/24 83/24 84/7
84/20 85/3 86/1 87/3
90/4 90/11 91/3 91/7
92/8 93/24 100/1
101/2 101/2 102/22
103/6 103/9 103/13
104/4 104/14 106/3
106/3 106/4 108/11
108/22 110/9 110/25
113/13 116/18 118/5
118/5 118/8 118/14
119/13 120/17 120/18}
120/24 121/3 121/3
121/5 121/8 124/24
125/14 125/15 126/4
127/17 128/2 128/20
129/12 129/15 130/6
130/15 131/6 131/10
131/12 132/5 133/1
133/25 135/25 136/12}
137/2 137/8 138/14
138/17 139/6 141/17
142/2 142/10 142/10
144/15 144/25 145/4
145/6 145/10 146/3
146/8 146/10 146/25
149/21 152/25 153/4
153/17 153/24 154/3
154/12 155/14 157/16}
159/8 162/3 163/16
164/6 164/21 164/24
165/4 165/10 166/25
169/13 170/6 173/23
176/9 176/23
yours [1] 158/10
yourself [6] 20/14
23/1 105/20 111/6
141/12 159/2
Zz
Zdravko [3] 58/7
58/19 59/20
zero [1] 154/2
(77) would - zeroO