OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Tuesday, 1 October 2024
(10.00 am)
MR BLAKE: Good morning, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Good morning
MR BLAKE: This morning we're going to hear from
Mr Staunton.
HENRY ERIC STAUNTON (sworn)
Questioned by MR BLAKE
MR BLAKE: Can you give your full name, please?
‘A. Myname is Henry Eric Staunton.
Q._ MrStaunton, you should have in front of you a witness
statement dated 6 September this year; do you have that
in front of you? It should be behind tab A of your
bundle.
Yes.
Could I ask you, please, to tum to page 837
Yes.
Can you confirm that that is your signature?
Itis,
prorop
Can you confirm that that statement is true to the best
of your knowledge and belief?
It is true to the best of your knowledge and belief.
Thank you very much. That witness statement has the
unique reference number of WITN11410100, and that will
QP
be uploaded onto the Inquiry's website in due course.
1
where I was at.
Q. Thank you. Can you assist us with how you were
approached with the role as Chairman of Post Office,
please?
A. Well, I was looking forward to a happy and fruitful
retirement on the golf course and I was approached to
consider this, and I initially said no, but they said,
“Look, it's time for you to put something back, Henry,
please thank about this seriously", so I did, and I took
the role on.
Q Whois "they"?
The headhunters liaising with DBT.
Q._ MrParker had left on 30 September 2022, and I think
you've said in your statement that you began informally
shadowing Mr Tidswell from 1 October 2022; is that
right?
A. That's correct. I was leaving WHSmith at the end of
>
October and I didn't feel it was right to be ~ it's,
a strategic partner, WHSmith and the Post Office, and
I thought it was very unlikely there would be any
conflicts but, for the avoidance of doubt, I started two
months later.
Q. Thank you. It was nominally a role for two days a week.
Was that the amount of time you spent in that role?
A. _Itwas considerably more.
3
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
POPP >PO>
>
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
By anyway of background, you qualified as
a chartered accountant; is that right?
Correct.
You worked at Pricewaterhouse, PwC, for 23 years,
including as partner?
It was Pricewaterhouse all the time that I was there,
but yes.
You became Executive Director of Granada Group and ITV
and, in that position, you worked for a further 12,
years; is that right?
Correct. They were both FTSE 100 companies.
You became a non-executive director and chairman of
a number of other companies thereafter. Just by way of
‘example, you were Chairman of Ashtead, a plant hire
company; is that right?
Correct.
WHSmith, the well known retailer?
Correct.
Capital & Counties, which was a property company?
Correct.
‘And Phoenix, which was a life insurance company?
And I was also Deputy Chairman of Legal & General, which
is the biggest investor in British business. Can I just
say I am also Chairman of my old school and Chairman of
the Advisory Board of Exeter University Business School
2
Did you anticipate that it would be considerably more?
No, I didn't
Was it simply because of matters relating to the
Inquiry, matters relating to the historic fallout from
the scandal that's well known to this Inquiry, or do you
think it's something more than that that would require
the time and commitment that you —
Itwas more than that because I thought the place was
a mess and it required much more of my time.
In terms of the briefings that you received when you
took on the role, did you receive briefings into the
historic actions against subpostmasters concerning
alleged discrepancies when you first joined?
Yes, I was.
What was your initial impression of the attitude of the
business towards those matters?
My initial impression was ~- and I'm no lawyer -- but
I thought it seemed obvious to me that the Horizon
system was completely and utterly unreliable and I was
staggered that the postmasters had had these issues to
deal with in respect of their relations with the Post
Office. That was my single biggest reaction from the
whole of my briefing of those two months.
What was your initial reaction as to how seriously or
otherwise the business took that issue?
4
(1) Pages 1-4
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
I felt that people thought Justice Fraser's analysis —-
they didn't fully accept it, was my impression. That
somehow the case hadn't been put welll or whatever.
There wasn't a feeling this was absolutely wrong as to
what had happened
Where in the business was that impression coming from,
in your view?
Well, it was outside, it was not just within Legal or
Remediation, I think it was a feeling across the piste
with the team.
We will get, in due course, to your meeting with the
Permanent Secretary but what was your initial impression
of the attitude of UKGI and the Department for Business,
in respect of those matters?
I couldn't say because I hadn't met anyone until I met
Ms Munby, and we didn't really talk about the sort of
issues that we're talking about here, in any length, so
I really ~ it would be speculation on my part.
You've addressed the Horizon system, what about
compensation and redress? What was your initial
impression of the business's attitude towards
compensation and redress?
My initial impression was that I thought the Post Office
and the Government were dragging their feet in terms of
making payments for remediation in the first place; and,
5
not.
I want to move on to your initial tasks and initial
information that you became aware of and I'm going to
start with a letter to your predecessor from the
Permanent Secretary of the Department for Business and
Trade. Can we please turn to UKGI00044315. This is
a letter from Sarah Munby, Permanent Undersecretary of
State to your predecessor, Mr Parker, and that sets out
the strategic priority for 2022/2023. I'lljust spend
a few moments going through some of the key points in
this letter?
If we scroll down, please, it sets out that at each
year there is a letter to the Post Office which sets out
the key priorities. First, it has a heading
"Shareholder priorities” and, if we keep on scrolling,
please, it says at the bottom:
“Specifically, I would like you to focus on the
following priorities:
“1. Maintaining and improving [Post Office's}
capacity, capability and resilience at all levels of the
organisation."
If we scroll down, we can see 2:
“Engaging with the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
and implementing change ....
"3, Resolving historical litigation issues.”
7
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
pre>ro
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
in the second place, I thought that, in respect of —
there was no appetite at all for exoneration. Those
were the two things that came through strongly to me.
What did you understand to be the role of the
Investigations Department when you first joined?
Well, my understanding was that they were very powerful,
that if you heard about some of the issues in respect of
how they dealt with postmasters, it came over to me as
quite brutal, really
We're talking about your initial impressions —
Yes.
~ at the very beginning?
Yes.
You didn't have any background in, for example, liaising
with the law enforcement?
No, I've never been involved in — I've got to be
honest, I've never had any involvement with a situation
like this before in my business life.
Do you recalll any discussions or briefings early on in
your time as Chair, with regard to the role of the
Investigations Department and, for example, criminal
prosecutions?
No, not in any great detail. I mean, there was
an overview to start with in those two months, if we're
talking about this two-month period, no, I would say
6
Ill just read out some of those priorities that are
set out there in bullet points. It says, for the
financial year '22/'23, the Post Office should:
"Build on the successes of the [Historic Shortfall
Scheme] and the lessons learned to ensure effective
process of the other compensation areas;
"Deliver the [Historic Shortfall Scheme] timetable
with our ambition for 100 per cent of offers made by the
end of 2022 and progressing [claims] through to the
postoffer process;
“Continue to work closely with officials to progress.
the timely delivery of compensation to postmasters with
Overtumed Historical Convictions;
"Work with officials on issues relating to [Group
Litigation Order] compensation;
“Identify and deliver compensation to postmasters
that have suffered detriment not captured within the
other areas; and [finally]
"Challenge [Post Office] management so their
activities are reflective of our shared objectives for
compensation, to see postmasters are treated with
consistency and they receive swift compensation that is
fair for claimants and taxpayers.”
If we scroll down, she continues:
“We acknowledge that the delivery of compensation to
8
(2) Pages 5-8
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
claimants is raising a number of difficult issues, given
the challenging objective of balancing fair and swift
compensation consistently across the claimant groups
with making appropriate use of taxpayers’ money. We
remain committed to working with you to resolve these
issues."
It then moves on to the fourth priority:
“Effective management of legal costs and settlements
with claimants."
If we scroll down, please, we see there the final of
those bullet points, it says:
“Work with officials to explore ways in which these
activities could be delivered differently, in particular
to deliver redress in a timely manner and at a lower
cost, alongside continuing to review legal costs and
controls.”
Number 5, if we scroll down, "Effective financial
management and performance"; and number 6, over the
page, please, "Successfully delivering the Strategic
Platform Modernisation Programme".
She then says at the bottom:
“I look forward to discussing progress against these
priorities at our next meeting and in your exit
interview."
So this was a letter that was sent to your
9
I went to see her.
It was a key priority for you to address when you
received that letter?
Correct.
Can we please turn to POL00448680, 11 November 2022.
Here you are writing to the Secretary of State, this is
actually before you've taken up the role
Correct.
It says:
“Lam writing to ask for your support in addressing
a significant risk to the reputation and success of Post
Office Limited, namely the retention of the Chief
Executive Officer, Nick Read.
“As you know I will become the Chair of Post Office
Limited on 1 December 2022. In preparing for that role,
Ihave identified what I believe to be a critical
situation regarding Nick's remuneration package which
I welcome your support to address. This will allow us
to mitigate against the risk of Nick leaving the Post
Office in the coming months and the significant
consequences this would have for the reputation and
future of the Post Office.
"My predecessor, Tim Parker, has raised the specific
issue of Nick Read's remuneration with both Paul Scully
and with Kwasi Kwarteng over the past year. On both
"4
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
predecessor. It seems as though it was soon before he
was leaving the business; is that right?
A. Correct.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Can you tell me the date, Mr Blake?
Sorry, I missed the actual —
MR BLAKE: The letter itself is undated. I don't know if
Mr Staunton is able to assist. No.
On taking up the role, was this a letter that you
had sight of?
‘And I was also forwarded by Ms Munby.
Thank you. Moving on, please, to POLO0448680.
Sorry, if I could just interrupt for a second, I would
just like to highlight the fact that, on page 3, there
are three references to -- when it talks about
remediation, to “fair value for the taxpayer", to
“appropriate use of taxpayers’ money", to "be fair not
only to the postmasters but also to the taxpayer", and
I thought -- that left me with the view ~ this was not
a letter saying we want to make generous remediation
payments to postmasters, it was saying trim it to give
fair value for the taxpayers. I found that deeply
disturbing, those three references.
Being deeply disturbed, was that one of the main things
‘on your mind at the time?
It was on my mind and certainly was on my mind when
10
occasions the ministers declined to approve any
improvement in Nick's package, citing concerns over the
Inquiry and the context of the public sector pay freeze.
They indicated that the situation be reviewed again in
September 2022 once the Inquiry was concluded. However,
particularly in light of the extended Inquiry process
and the subsequent delay in any report being published,
which means that it may not conclude for at least one
more year, I believe that the risk to Post Office are
now even more present and that we need to take active
control of the situation. As incoming Board Chairman,
I have a responsibility to seek action without delay and
seek the invaluable support you can offer me."
If we scroll down, it sets out there Mr Read's
"Current Package and Remuneration History”. We see
there the total maximum compensation as at that point in
time was £788,500.
Can we scroll down. It continues to assess the
market position and then, on page 3, sets out "Proposed
Action’. We see there, just below paragraph 3, it says:
"These changes would result in total compensation of
£1,125,180 at target performance. This places Nick at
around lower quartile of target total cash once the cost
of benefits are factored in."
So the letter is essentially asking for Mr Read to
12
(3) Pages 9 - 12
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
>
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
be paid from £788,000 presently, now to over £1 million
a year?
Correct.
Was this the first communication between yourself and
the Secretary of State?
Correct.
If we scroll over the page, we see it concludes:
"We also hope you will not reject the proposals in
this letter as your predecessors have done. In the,
hopefully, unlikely event that you do not feel able to
approve the proposal in full, we would urge you to
deliver as much of the proposal as possible.”
Why was it so pressing at this time to address
Mr Read's pay?
Just by way of context, as you say, I hadn't been
appointed even as Chairman. Normally, in any corporate,
a letter like this would actually have gone from the
RemCo Chairman, unless it surely should come from the
RemCo chairman. But, as it was ~ Ms Williams was the
CPO at that time, as she said and as Nick said, the
previous letter came from the Chairman, so it would look
weak if it didn't come from me, so this letter was
drafted and I signed it, there was nothing there that
was factually that was wrong. It was obviously just
a massive salary increase for ~ in a company where it
13
Grant Shapps said -- the then Secretary of State -- in
the context of what Secretaries of State earned, senior
people in Government; it was a huge amount of money so
don't agree with Ms Burton. I think, actually, it's
quite right that she gets sign-off because I think, if
we hadn't had that, maybe this letter might have gone
through. So it was a useful buffer, I thought, for me
to hear the concerns, pass them on and, if they were
tured down, I thought, "Well, actually, if 'd been the
Secretary of State, I would have turned it down",
Can we please turn to BEIS0000607, please.
That's perfect. Thank you.
This is your appointment letter from Ms Munby.
just read a few parts of that, please. It sets out
three priorities. It says:
“Dear Henry,
“Congratulations on your appointment as Chair ... It
is a unique opportunity to make a nationally significant
contribution ..."
She sets out there three matters that she would like
you to focus your attention on:
"1. Effective financial management and performance,
including effective management of legal costs, to ensure
medium term viability;
"2. Maintaining and improving [the Post Office's}
15
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2
POrPO>
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
wasn't a normal corporate. It's ~ it was a public ~
‘owned by the public, paid for by the public purse.
It might strike people as odd, of all the matters
affecting the Post Office and postmasters, that the very
first correspondence with the Minister is about
Mr Read's pay?
Astonishing.
Mr Staunton, you sent that letter.
Idid. As I said, I was asked to sign it. A similar
letter had gone by my predecessor. I signed it and I ~
as I say, there was nothing factually wrong with it.
I wasn't expecting to get approval because I could see
what had happened to the previous two letters and, of
course, I saw the Secretary of State in January and he
tumed it down. And I would say, in my statement,
you'll see various ~- a number of issues that arose in
respect of remuneration, even between the sending of
this letter and my meeting with the Secretary of State,
all involving remuneration. It was a very time
consuming part of the work: ridiculously time consuming
We've heard evidence from Amanda Burton last week, and
I think she identified that it was unusual, perhaps
problematic, to have to seek approval from governments
to increase the CEO's pay; what's your view on that?
I don't think it is. I think these are huge numbers, as
14
capacity, capability and resilience at all levels of the
organisation;
"3, Engaging positively with the Post Office
Horizon IT Inquiry and implementing change, including
resolving historical litigation issues, successfully
delivering the Strategic Platform Modernisation
Programme, and reaching settlements with claimants."
If we scroll down, she says:
“Finally, Tim Parker wrote to me on {the Post
Office's] work to transform the cultural and process
aspects in response to the Inquiry shortly before his
departure. I will write to you on this matter
separately."
Did you get a response in relation to that matter?
Idon't think I did.
Can we please turn to the first Board meeting
Sorry, could I just say ~
Yes.
~ in respect of say, 1, "Effective management and
performance, including” ~ regarding medium-term
viability, it was clear to any businessman that to
achieve medium-term liability (sic) you needed to
take — you need to do radical restructuring of this
organisation in terms of reducing the cost levels,
et cetera. So it needed a huge injection of funds from
16
(4) Pages 13 - 16
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
the Government if we were to achieve medium-term
viability. So you can't just write "medium-term
viability’, unless you have the intention of backing the
Post Office in terms of investments.
I'm sorry to interrupt but that's a really key point
which you may come on to later.
We'll come to the context of your meeting with Ms Munby,
in due course. Can we first though, please, turn to
POL00448621, please, and that is a first Board meeting
or the first Board meeting at which you have been
appointed, 6 December 2022. We see there you're listed
there as Chairman, "via Teams". If we scroll down, we
see there:
“It was RESOLVED that Henry Eric Staunton, having
consented to act, be appointed as a Director of the
Company ..."
Then:
“It was NOTED that the shareholder of the Company
had appointed Henry Eric Staunton as Chairman of the
Board."
If we could scroll down, please, I don't think you
made a significant contribution to the actual meeting?
I don't think your name is mentioned in all that many
places because, presumably, you had only just taken up
the role. But there is a CEO report, please, at page 3,
7
the business were positive, however the Company had
significant issues to face including the Inquiry and
wider external factors. An issue of some urgency for
the Board was determining the optimal size and shape of
the network, which needed to be coordinated with BEIS
and the Minister.”
If we scroll down there, we see "SI", that's Saf
Ismail, who we have already heard from last week:
"... detailed some of the headwinds for Postmasters
including an anticipated increase in minimum wage,
rising energy prices", et cetera
“LH [that's Lisa Harrington] referenced the
strategic direction of the Company and that the Board
was interested to understand early ideas on the BEIS
policy review."
If we scroll down we then see that Minister
Hollinrake and assistant left the meeting at 2.07. You
don't recall?
No, I was getting confused with the date that the
Minister came but I recall now, he came on that date,
yeah.
Thank you. There are no issues addressing compensation
being raising with the Minister on that occasion, are
there?
No.
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
and it appears that Minister Hollinrake, the then Postal
Minister, attended the meeting; is that correct?
I guess so, I can't recall, but yeah.
“The Chairman welcomed the Minister and passed over to
[Nick Read] to present the CEO Report. [Mr Read] spoke
to the report advising that the Company had had a very
good half year in terms of trade, and that the Company's
travel and bill payments businesses had continued to
perform well.”
It then goes on to say that:
"... we were seeing a tightening in consumer
confidence, with a slowdown in banking and travel.”
About halfway down that paragraph, it says:
"With the slowdown in the mails trade a shortfall in
our funding over the next few years was forecast. The
Inquiry, extending now potentially into 2024, was going
to cost the Company more, however we wished to support
the Inquiry to the best of our ability. One of the
implications of the Inquiry was in relation to the
rollout of NBIT [New Branch IT System]; the technology
needed to work first time, the rollout exercise was
vast, and the exercise was massively time bound. This
‘compression of activity within a very short time frame
would have many impacts."
“BT [I think that's Mr Tidswell] noted that parts of
18
If we could turn to page 9, once the Minister has left,
we see the issue of historical matters being addressed,
if we scroll down, please. If we scroll over the page,
there's a section there that you have addressed in your
witness statement. I'd just like a little bit more
detail if I may. The minutes say:
“In respect of outstanding balance payments, BT
[Mr Tidswell] advised that this issue had been
considered many times at the HRC."
What was the HRC?
The Remediation Committee
Thank you:
"The quandary was that if we notified Postmasters
and requested they pause payments, were we inadvertently
stimulating claims against an unfunded position. [Nick
Read] queried whether there had been any communications
with the current 77 postmasters who were repaying. SR
replied [I think that’s Mr Recaldin] that there had not
been. [Mr Recaldin] noted that 13 of the 20 cases in
this category that had been investigated had shown that
the repayments were in order. AC noted that we had not
investigated the balance of the other cases ...”
it then says:
"AC advised that he was not persuaded by the
argument against pausing repayments and his view was
20
(5) Pages 17 - 20
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
9
10
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Qa
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
that we needed to notify and speak to the post masters in
question and investigate fully.”
I think "AC" is Mr Cameron; is that right?
Correct.
Thank you. Can I just clarify the issue here. Was the
concern that, by pausing repayments that were being made
by subpostmasters, it might actually mean that more
subpostmasters are claiming compensation or redress from
the Post Office?
Correct. I mean, I raised this, I put it in my
statement because I used the words that I thought the
process was bureaucratic, adversarial, unsympathetic,
and one or two other adjectives, and I thought I can't
just say that without giving some examples that came to
mind. And there were four examples I gave of which that
was one.
Moving to that one, what surprised me was that, you
know, we shouldn't be not doing something because it
would generate claims. You know, that's not the basis
on which the Remediation Committee should be working.
Having received that letter, the strategic priorities
for 2022/2023, which you said caused you significant
concern, in respect of redress and compensation, having
then moved to addressing Mr Read's pay, is it not
surprising that nobody thought at the meeting with the
21
priority for a Remediation Committee.
So why, at your first Board meeting, when the Minister
was in attendance, were issues of redress and
compensation not raised? They were clearly raised
after -
No, the fact is that, as I say, I'd been there a few
days. Mr Read addressed what he thought were key issues
for the Minister to hear and I think that all the things
he raised were perfectly fair. I think the feeling
among the Post Office is that, you know, "We're doing
quite well in terms of HSS, et cetera”, in terms of
getting offers out. Clearly that's not the view of the
postmasters but, as I say, that was the view internally,
that "We're doing quite a good job and exonerations, and
that's - it's not for us, and we don't believe in it
anyway",
So I think there's a balance here between what the
postmasters think -—- that the Post Office thinks it's
doing a good job. That's not, clearly, the view of
postmasters but that was what I think drove them, "We
don't need to raise it with the Minister because things
are on track”.
Okay, so you had been shadowing since October, this is
now your first Board meeting —-
25 A. (The witness nodded)
23
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
Minister on this occasion to raise issues of
compensation and redress?
Well, 'd only been in the job a few days, so I think
that's asking quite a lot when you're trying to find
your feet in what's going on. But, as I say, I formed
a view, over a period of months, regarding bureaucracy
and unsympathetic and adversarial approach, and that is
‘one example where we shouldn't be making that decision,
that it shouldn't be based on reducing ~- not having
further claims. That's not a good reason for not
pursuing something.
So the letter from Ms Munby to your predecessor that you
said, I think, shocked or concerned you, did that take
months to settle in, or was your shock and concer quite
instant?
It was quite instant, in terms of she didn't say, "Make
payments to post masters that are either generous or, you
know, seen to be very fair". It was “fair but also make
it fair for the taxpayers", or, "appropriate use of
taxpayers’ money”, et cetera. So there was a balance
here, and I think that -- I think Mr Cameron said
that -- in a note of about 23 March, that the
Remediation Committee was perhaps too keen to follow
shareholders’ interests and just that, and these four
‘examples I gave to show that's not, I think, the
22
~ the company's view is things were going okay on
compensation. Presumably, that was something that you
shared at that occasion, then?
No, I didn't share it but I think the answer is, it's
very early. In your first Board meeting when you are
listening to everything, I mean as Chairman, you know,
if you're — assuming you're in there for nine years,
you have to acclimatise yourself, work out what's
happening at a Board meeting, how things work. You
can't, at the first Board meeting, just make statements
when you're not really sure of all of the facts. Don't
forget, a lot of my other examples that I gave in terms
of really a priority that was not being given to
postmaster claims, were all after this Board meeting.
So this was the first one. So my thoughts were forming
but they weren't absolutely firm.
Can we turn to POL00448676, please. We're now towards
Christmas 2022 and there's an email exchange between
Mr Read and yourself. If we could start, please, on
page 3., at the bottom of page 3., thank you. We don't
have the email below this in the chain, or we may have
it but it's not shown here, but this is a response from
Mr Read to yourself, and he says:
"Thank you Henry.
“This is part of the problem. [Non-Executive
24
(6) Pages 21 - 24
ONAARwONH
PoP
9
10
1
12
13
14
15
6 Q
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24 A.
2 Qa
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Directors] attempt to play exec roles, dipping in and
out, which causes confusion amongst colleagues.
Unfortunately because Tom ...”
I think that's a reference to Tom Cooper, the UKGI
Non-Executive Director; is that correct?
Correct.
works 4 days a week on [Post Office], he sets a
precedent. This needs to change.”
Your response above is:
“In the past I have had a couple of [Non-Executive
Directors] who have struggled with understanding the
difference between [Executive Directors] and
[Non-Executive Directors}.”
In the next paragraph, you say:
“Unfortunately Tom is not inexperienced; he feels he
has a special status; and I do not think he wants to be
‘helpful’. He seems to want to undermine management and
to be antagonistic."
Can you expand on that, please?
Yes, I mean, it is a very different role, the UKGI
representative on this Board, compared to a normal
non-executive. One has to say that, on the one hand.
On the other hand, it is odd to spend four days -- that
much time, four days a week, you're neo-executive, and
that is why Mr Read felt that the UKGI representative
25
the company and Government and to act as a ‘cheerleader’
for what we do, and the value we play in society."
Just pausing there, is that an accurate description
of the role of the UKGI shareholder or what it should
be?
I don't think it is the role of the ~ of the UKGI ~
What do you see as the role of the UKGI shareholder?
It's very difficult because, as I say, I've never come
across anything like it as a role, so I think almost, it
is what that UKGI director seeks to make it. But I
don't think it's just to act as a cheerleader or really
as a priority, it should be that. It should be,
I think, I think, to make sure that public monies ~ and
they're very significant sums involved — are well
spent.
He then continues:
“Nothing about the way he conducts himself suggests
this happens. He has little or no influence in
Government and doesn't understand the politics. I am
consequently fearful for the next 4 weeks and how we are
being positioned in Whitehall.”
What was the significance of the next four weeks, do
you recall?
can't.
No. If we scroll down those final two paragraphs on
27
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
was dipping in and out. And, throughout my first year,
in all the surveys that we did of - when people left
I don't know if we're going to come on to that ~ but
when three directors left, I had an independent survey
done to find out their views, and the role of the UKGI
the director, was raised as an issue and it was raised
also in the Board Evaluation Report that came out soon
afterwards.
So there was some dissatisfaction on the Board,
I think there probably still is, in terms of the role of
the GI director and how much power they have. Equally,
it's a very difficult role for that UKGI director, and
accept that.
What do you mean by, "I do not think he wants to be
helpful"?
Well, I think he was making a number of points to the
management, which I think that they found weren't
helpful, that were perhaps off the mark, and I don't
think that Tom Cooper saw that as his job, that he
wanted to be helpful
If we scroll up, another response from Mr Read. He
says:
“That's a fair summary, Henry.
My primary issue with Tom is that he fails to
fulfil his role, which is to act as an interface between
26
that email, it says:
“At the Board he has asymmetric information and
therefore an undue influence over everyone, the Chair
included. He is simply much closer to the day-to-day
mechanisms of the business, has an army of analysts to
delve into his personal areas of interest and,
consequently, undue influence.
“Tim [that's your predecessor, Tim Parker] did duck
it. He felt he could influence him ... sadly no
evidence of that.
“The opportunity and challenge for any incoming
[Non-Executive Director] will be corporate knowledge,
history and how Government works. Getting the selection
right of course will be important, but I am afraid you
will struggle to have an effective and most importantly,
independent Board, until you address the elephant in the
room."
What did you understand by that?
Well, there were a lot of issues within there. Starting
from the back, I realised that, fairly early on, this
was going to be an issue and, actually, setting up
an independent Board that wasn't overly influenced by
either UKGI or DBT or, indeed, the UKGI-nominated
director was very important to establish the
independence of the Board, and I'm not sure fully
28
(7) Pages 25 - 28
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
succeeded but that was always my aim,
My predecessor did actually also -- Nick Read is
right -- did say "This is a huge elephant in the room,
Henry, and I just wasn't prepared to take it on and
you've got this problem to deal with". He did have
undue influence, that's fair to say. Equally, as I said
before, you could see, you know, he felt he had
a special role in terms of looking after public monies.
So I could see both sides of where people were. They
were both right.
Was there considerable frustration at the role of UKGI
and it's Non-Executive Director as at Christmastime
2022?
Yes, there was and, as I say, I did do an independent
survey of the three directors who were leaving, two of
them who were leaving before their nine years were up,
and one of them said, “It seems like each director
around the table has one vote and it seems like the UKGI
director has ten votes. So, actually, you know, we're
nothing more than an advisory board, we have no power"
Words like “a puppet board” were used.
So, obviously, I was worried to hear that and that's
why I thought it's a priority to set this Board up as
an independent Board but, clearly, there was
dissatisfaction with -- from Nick Read and, indeed, with
29
over the Board."
What do you mean by carping and undermining of
management?
Well, I think ~ I've talked about it, that he would
make his point, sometimes they were quite detailed
points, as a non-exec would see it and, I think, as the
execs would see it and, therefore, they felt he's not
running this company, we are, we don't agree with him
and we've got to spend all this time dealing with it.
So it was certainly a word used by me that that was his
approach, and I agreed with it, as I say, whilst at the
same time understanding the difficulties of the UKGI
director.
So I wanted a unified Board. I recognised how
tricky it was. Actually, it was a lot less tricky than
I thought. UKGI were very understanding when I said to
them we needed to change, not because I was being
critical of Tom, I just think we needed a change and
that would help steady the ship in terms of having
a unified Board.
It says:
“Nick, you and I will have to work hard with our
three new [Non-Executive Director] colleagues and Brian
to have a proper functioning Board that knows the
difference between the [Executive Director] and
31
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
quite number of the independent directors.
So I did actually go to UKGI and said, "Look it's
not working, I'm not blaming Tom but, actually, I think
we need to have a fresh start”, and they accepted that
and said they would implement it. "It may take a month
or two", said Charles Donald, but they did.
If we scroll up, we can see your response. You say:
“I think there is no getting away from the issue.
It was the pathway to getting the right result that
Iwas reflecting on and your email made good sense.
I am in on 3 January seeing Sarah Munby and will pop
into the office after that. If you are in we can
discuss in specific detail."
if we scroll up, please, you have then forwarded
that exchange to Mr Tidswell, and you say as follows:
"Ben,
“As the future [Senior Independent Director] I want
to copy you in on an email received from Nick today.
Removing Tom is very, very tricky territory, trickier
than Nick imagines. However, it needs to be done
Hear. We will then have a unified Board with the
execs and [non-execs] working together to sort out [Post
Office's] issues.
“We must get away from the carping, the undermining
of management and the disproportionate influence Tom has
30
[Non-Executive Director] roles. I know I can rely on
you and think Brian can be won round. You will see that
Nick has other issues [with regard to] the role of the
UKGI [Non-Executive Director] which Tom does not fulfil
“Lam seeing Sarah Munby in early Jan — will keep
you posted.”
If we scroll up we have the response from
Mr Tidswell:
"L agree it will be very tricky but I also agree it
seems inevitable.
"My sense is that it will require firm engagement at
the highest levels, both within UKGI and BEIS. It
probably also fits quite naturally into the suite of
difficult subjects we have to broach in the next few
weeks, including the funding issues, the network and
Nick's pay. I suspect everyone feels that things aren't
working as they should."
So it seems there are four issues at the top of the
Post Office's priority list at that point in time. The
first is the replacement of the UKGI Non-Executive
Director, which we've seen in that email exchange, and
then we come to those three other issues: funding
issues; the network; and Nick's pay. Is that a fair
‘summary of the position, as at 23 December 2022?
No, I don't think itis a fair summary of the key issues
32
(8) Pages 29 - 32
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
that we were facing but they were some of the issues we
were facing.
Why don't you think it's a fair summary?
Well, I think a fair summary ~ I referred earlier to
the fact that, when I took the business over, I thought
it was a mess, and the reason it was a mess was that it
was hugely unprofitable, with respect to remediation.
As I say, the Government and the Post Office were
dragging their heels. There was no appetite for
exoneration. We had costs that were completely bloated.
We had an issue with regard to cultures and how poorly
postmasters were viewed by the organisation. We had
a structure that was far too many layers of management
and yet everything came up to the top, no one was taking
a decision. We had an issue with regard to governance
and particularly remuneration governance, which we might
come on to.
So there were a string of priorities, all of them
very important, and when I say remuneration, one of them
obviously was the Nick pay issue. So funding was
important, the network was important, but there were
a string of others, and I wouldn't put the ~- I would
put them ~ all of the things I've mentioned were
massive issues.
We still, by this stage, though, don't see
33
to more claims. So I thought that seemed pretty
unsympathetic to me. I thought, at that same meeting,
the legal counsel talked about the duty of care that we
owed postmasters and he said we owe a duty of care to
our employees but we don't owe the same duty of care to
postmasters, and I thought that completely mist the
point.
The postmasters are an integral part of this
organisation and, particularly, after all that had
happened to them over the last few years, to feel that
we didn't owe them the same duty of care as we did to
our employees, I thought was pretty unsympathetic.
I thought we owed them probably a greater duty of care
than to our employees.
Will we find that reflected in the minutes?
No, I talked to ~ my style as Chairman is not to pull
up people at Board meetings. I go and see them after
and say, "I just don't think that hits the mark, really,
does it?" That's what I've done in
chairman of a number of companies for many, many years.
That's my style, I think it works, and that's what I did
in respect of these issues, was chat to Simon, who ran
've been the
Remediation or Ben Tidswell, in terms of his comment
about opening things up to further claims, and to Ben
Foat, in respect of his comments about not having a duty
35
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
correspondence or communications with Government by
yourself in relation to remediation, do we?
No, I'd been in post less than a month
We then have the meeting with Sarah Munby, on 5 January
2023. That document can come down. Thank you
You said in your statement, it's paragraph 14, that
you were aware in your words that "Horizon was
a completely unreliable system by that stage"; is that
right?
Correct.
You've said that 700-plus convictions of subpostmasters
were “suspect”, I think was the word you used; is that
right?
Yes.
You've also said that the redress schemes at that stage
were administered in a bureaucratic and unsympathetic
way; is that right?
Correct.
At that stage, what was your concern regarding the
bureaucratic and unsympathetic administration?
Well, as I say, you picked up one of the examples.
I also referred in my statement to a state duty where,
this is where there'd been a death in the family, and we
were talking about the principles, and the view was, if
we widened the principles, that we opened ourselves up
34
of care to the same extent for postmasters.
We'll be hearing from Mr Recaldin in due course. Do you
think that he will give evidence that there was
a conversation between the two of you ~
Yes, yes.
~ in which you said "We're not getting it right in
terms the attitude towards subpostmasters"?
In that particular issue, yeah
If we could take your statement onto screen, it's,
WITN11410100, and can we please turn to page 6,
paragraph 13. Thank you. I'm just going to read
paragraph 13 out. You say:
"[There were], firstly, the legacy of the Horizon
scandal, which would require the full and speedy
exoneration of all the convicted postmasters and
appropriate and rapid redress to the thousands of
postmasters and their families who had lost so much.
Secondly, there was the need to replace the discredited
Horizon IT System. It was clear that both would require
substantial sums to be earmarked, but I assumed the case
for doing so was so overwhelming that the necessary
funds would be readily set aside. It was therefore
a considerable surprise that when I met the civil
servant overseeing the Post Office early in my term as
chairman, I was told that there would be little appetite
36
(9) Pages 33 - 36
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
Pero
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Pe
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
in government for the kind of decisive and morally
imperative action that I believed was necessary.
Instead, the message I received was that I was expected
to fulfil a more limited caretaker role, overseeing
a more modest plan to ‘hobble’ up to the next election
I address this meeting in more detail below."
I'd like to take you to various notes that have been
taken of that meeting. Can we start, please, by looking
at RLIT0000254, please. Is this your note of the
meeting?
Correct.
I think i's a note that you sent to Mr Read on
6 January in the moming, and it's a note of your
meeting the day before; is that right?
Correct.
I'd just like to take you through the notes, if we start
with where it says, "Sarah":
"Sarah asked for first impressions, I said I had
been on over a dozen public company Boards and not seen
one with so many challenges.
“I focused on the financing and network challenges:
“On financing we had identified in [September]
a deficit of £210 million. After much effort we had
identified savings of £170 milion (mainly out of the
change budget, cap exp and [exponentials]. However
37
this had happened in any other company I'd been chairman
of, I'd have blown a ~- these are huge numbers swinging
around. I've never come across a company where you
would come across this.
Where do you think responsibility for that lies?
I mean, you could say it was the chairman, but I'd just
been appointed -
What do you say ~
It's mentioned really, isn't it? Always is.
Fundamentally, what do you see as the issue there?
It's a very good question. It's to be fair, this is
a very unusual situation but, nonetheless, I just didn't
feel that we really had enough of a grip on costs.
But is that a problem with specific individuals? Is it
a problem with anything that you can actually put your
finger on or is it just a —- it's all a bit too
difficult?
I couldn't put my finger on it then, as I say, these are
huge numbers swinging round, massive numbers I'd never
seen before, and it has to come down to management.
I wouldn't ~- I couldn't pinpoint a particular manager
but it has to be management
It then says:
“There was a likelihood of a significant reduction
in post offices if more funding was not required. Last
39
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
prop
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
since then extra costs of £120 million have arisen: from
Horizon £60 milion (training needs [especially] with
Inquiry) ..."
Can you just assist us with what that issue was?
The training needs?
Yes.
can't remember the details of it, 'm sorry.
Might it be that the earlier phases of the Inquiry had
identified issues with the training of subpostmasters,
and a decision was taken to invest an additional
£60 million in training?
That is my guess, but I didn’t want to say for sure, but
that’s my guess.
Inquiry £30 million (taking longer); and
telephony/Internet £30 million
In total we have
a shortfall therefore of £160 million ... and this
before the deficit arising from the material downturn in
the parcels business, and to a lesser extent from the
implications for our cash business of the FCA Money
Laundering regs on deposits.”
So the issues being raised there in terms of
spending appear to be related to Horizon training, costs
relating to the Inquiry and also additional costs
relating thing to telephony and Internet; is that right?
Yes, I mean, if I could just say, from my experience, if
38
year half of all post offices were either loss-making or
eaming less than £5,000 profit. The position would
have deteriorated substantially because of increase in
Minimum Wage and fuel/electricity prices. A recent
survey indicated that one third of [postmasters] would
hand back their keys over the next 5 years and that
figure would now be higher because of extra costs.
“The reputational consequences for [Post Office] and
for Government were fraught.
"Sarah was sympathetic to all of the above. She
understood the ‘huge commercial challenge’ and the
‘seriousness’ of the financial position. She described
‘all the options as unattractive’. However,
‘politicians do not necessarily like to confront
reality’, This particularly applied when there was no
obvious ‘route to profitability’.
What do you understand by the comments being made
there?
I think it's a big point that she's making about no
route to profitability. I mean, I think, if I were
a minister, I'd be concerned about pouring good money
after bad, so I think it's a fair request to ask for
a route to profitability. But, as I said, the route to
profitability is a fundamental rationalisation of this
business, reducing the cost base and, in fact, also
40
(10) Pages 37 - 40
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
PoP
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
attacking the income numbers, but it was not something
that would be achieved without big investment, and a big
reaction from management to get it right.
It continues:
"She said we needed to know that in the run-up to
the election there was no appetite to 'rip off the band
aid’. 'Now was not the time for dealing with long-term
issues’. We needed a plan to ‘hobble’ up to the
election."
Now, those comments appear to be broad comments
about funding, not directed towards the matter of
redress; what do you say about that?
I think the comments about the funding that would be
required for the Post Office, the big spends were the
Inquiry, but I think the cost there would have to be
what they would be. The costs would relate to Horizon,
and, as I said to Nick Read afterwards, that is the one
where I think we're most exposed, we really do need to
be - have a much better grip on what these costs are.
The third area was funding - was remediation. And the
fourth area was just outflows out of the business.
‘And I said to Nick, of the last ~ the last one
we've clearly got to get a handle on the costs situation
and, on the remediation, I said we should spend what it
takes and I'll take the consequences.
41
The remediation is not in there, neither is Horizon.
Horizon —
As I said, it wasn't meant to be a full note, it was
meant to be just recording (a) the trading position to
let her know how precarious the position was in respect
of the network; and, secondly, I wanted to record her
overall comments that she made with regard to band aid,
hobbling into the election, restricting spend
It then says:
“Having said that, we and BEIS needed to do the
long-term thinking for a new Government of whichever
colour. This would include what is politically
acceptable [with regard to] the size of the network.
She also referred to ‘operational’ issues colouring [the
Treasury's] thinking. (‘Trust' in the [Post Office]
Board and management has not been high). They could see
this as another ‘begging bowl request from [the Post
Office] I said the funding issues revolved around poor
decisions made many years ago [with regard to] Horizon
and related legal issues."
"Related legal issues", of course, I was referring to ~
that was my reference to Horizon and remediation, the
related legal issues.
"With regard to the forthcoming meeting with the
[Secretary of State] she gave some advice. He's nice
43
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
Where in this conversation with Ms Munby, and your note
of the conversation, do we see the issue of remediation,
redress, compensation being raised with —
This — my filenote was not meant to be a full record of
what took place. I just wanted to, because we haven't
talked about -- my note didn't cover Horizon, for
instance, which we ought to talk about. I wanted to
talk about two things: one that I'd told the Permanent
Secretary that this business, in terms of commerciality,
was a problem child; and, secondly, to deal with the
other points that I raised. But it wasn't meant to be
a full record of everything she said.
So aghast were you by that letter outlining the
strategic priorities for 2022/2023 and the references in
there to fair value for the taxpayer and compensation,
why do you think itis that you didn't note down any
references to compensation and redress in this note?
Well, it's because I just ~ I thought there was —
I was more interested in making the general points that
she made, which was there's no appetite to rip off the
band aid, the Treasury is finding money very, very tight
and, as I say, the tightness would be in those four
areas: which is Horizon, remediation, the Inquiry, and
trading.
Where is remediation in the note?
42
and easy but not interested in meetings. He prefers the
written form. We should expect him to be ‘pushy and
demanding’ as he was with the train operators whilst
[Secretary of State] for Transport.”
I think this is Grant Shapps by this stage; is that,
right?
Correct.
“He would ‘hold us to account. He will take a hard
time on pay. So far Sarah's efforts on pay have fallen
on deaf ears.”
So it looks as though, again, there is discussion
here in respect of Mr Read's pay; is that right?
Correct.
We then have a note that was taken by the Department for
Business. Can we please turn to BEIS0000752. Thank you
very much, We can ignore the top email because that,
I think, formed part of an investigation into what had
been said. So that’s dated 2024 at the top but, looking
now at the emails we have at the bottom of the screen,
and if we scroll down, we can see that this was, in
fact, a note that was taken and circulated on 6 January
relating to that meeting and it says:
"Sarah met with Henry yesterday -- thanks very much
for the support on briefing. It was a fairly frank/open
conversation in general, I should flag that Sarah opted
44
(11) Pages 41 - 44
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
not to write to Henry prior to the meeting. Readout
below, left longer as I think useful.”
Let's go through the note that was taken by the
Department:
“Henry noted he has never seen a corporation
challenged on so many fronts ... don't have the luxury
of prioritisation as every issue is a big one."
That corresponds broadly with what was written in
your note:
“SM [Ms Munby] agreed that challenge is significant
and that politics around [the Post Office] make this is
an even trickier problem to solve, the timing of
agreeing a longer term solution this year is also very
difficult politically. Noted that we do need to be
ready for what that answer is though.
*[Ms Munby] flagged that the relationship on funding
[with His Majesty's Treasury] is difficult, their view
will always lean towards the ‘begging bow!' type
scenario, a dynamic worsened by Horizon/Inquiry costs.”
Again, that's consistent with your note:
[Mr Staunton/Ms Munby] agreed to having a frank/open
relationship on [the Post Office]
*[Ms Munby] gave background to {the Secretary of
State's] ways of working -- noting fairly hard/pushy
with ALBs/Partner Organisations."
45
success.”
It records your response:
“[You]
"Can understand from [The secretary of State's}
perspective why it's difficult to approve and have
already flagged this to [Mr Read]
“Reflected that if [Permanent Secretary] can't get
progress it's unlikely he will get much further and
questioned his worth in raising it
[Sarah Munby] if there is good point in
conversation to land the issue/argument, could stil
consider raising it but he isn't going to agree to full
request, still worth trying to get what he can.”
It records you as:
"... keen to be straightforward [with regards to]
Mr Read."
There is then a section on succession/management.
Ms Munby says:
“[The Secretary of State] knows problems with
internal succession and the [management] team isn't as,
strong as could be so will likely raise this as
challenge to fix.”
What was the issue there?
Well, as I said, when I ran through why the company was
a mess, I said that management was an issue, so I don't
47
ONOneRwON a
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
Again, that's a matter addressed in your note.
There's then a lengthy section on Mr Read's pay:
"[Sarah Munby]
"Sympathetic to case for [Mr Read] and have been
working hard to push this forward.
"[Secretary of State] is very hard line on executive
pay and haven't so far been successful in getting
progress but have postponed formal decision until
post-{your chat with the Secretary of State}.
"[The Secretary of State] understands risk of
[Mr Read] leaving.”
By this stage, had Mr Read said he was going to
leave if he wasn't paid more?
Ibelieve so. There was quite a delay between sending
this letter and the meeting of the Secretary of State
and I think it wasn't — it wasn't eating away at Nick
but I think clearly it was important to him and, at that
stage, he was clearly wanting movement on his pay, and
I've set it all out in my evidence —- my witness
statement. I think by then he was already saying,
threatening to leave".
“Balancing act in terms of [you] raising it at
[meeting] ~ given its first discussion [with the
Secretary of State] so potential for getting off on
wrong foot combined [with] relative low chance of
46
disagree with Sarah's assessment. So it was a fair
point. But this company was in a state of some crisis,
so I think it's very easy to be critical of management
but, from the early days, I thought "My goodness me,
I've never seen a team having quite so much on their
plate, or anywhere near as much on their plate”. So
I think it's easy to be critical about -- for Ms Munby
to say we need to strengthen the management and it'll
all go away. It needed something far more fundamental
than that.
*[Ms Munby] ran through what [we've been] doing our side
to think about policy options and [presumably cost,
there's a pound sign]. Noted 3 difficulties on
{pounds}:
"1. We don't have it (will need to come from
elsewhere)
"2. In order to give any money it will need to be
approved by [His Majesty's Treasury] ~- who won't allow
us to give until we had long-term plan, but the timing
doesn't work ~ so trying to do something to bridge.
"3. Subsidy control ~ without an excuse we can't
just lift cash over the wall - have to be subsidy
compliant (but should be fixable and is our problem to
fix).
*[Ms Munby] We might end up doing something small to
48
(12) Pages 45 - 48
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
>
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
buy space collectively to get to the longer term.
“[You both] discussed dynamics of policy options -
{for example] difficulties in reducing networks.”
It then says that you mentioned targets referred to
in Inquiry hearing:
“... wasn't looking for an apology but wider point
around being synced up and acknowledging where each
other's roles lie. Was keen him and Sarah strategically
aligned where [possible]."
Now, this does seem to be the first mention of
compensation or redress; do you agree with that?
To be honest, I can't recall quite what she meant about
targets in respect of the Inquiry hearing but I assume
it was remediation.
I think the issue was we saw, in that very first
document that we have seen, that there is reference in
the original strategic priorities for the Department's
priority to be an ambition of 100 per cent of offers
made at the end of 2022 in respect of the Horizon.
Shortfall Scheme?
That was the difficult -- that's where the apology was
sought from the Post Office Management, which was
actually they never said that they would get
100 per cent; they said they would get 95 per cent. To
me, it was quite a small issue but, clearly, this had
49
I don't know if it -- and we may come to it ~ but the
whole issue of the bonus that the Department were
wondering whether the senior management should repay,
because it had been paid before it had been approved by
the Department. I'm wondering if that's what it was; is
that what she meant?
Well, we'll ask ~
We might come to it, I presume. Yeah.
Whys it, throughout this discussion, we don't see any
significant discussion about redress and compensation,
certainly not in the note that was taken by the
Department.
I don't think it was discussed at length. I mean, this
was my ~ she called me in for an introductory meeting
and, as I say, I'd been in post a month by then.
I think you're forming your views — I hadn't made up
any -- you know, made any final views. This was very
early days. To walk in and start talking about that
remediation is going too slowly, at that stage, was too
big a call
So I think I was there to listen to what she had to
say and, as I say, I mean, that filenote doesn't record
the key things, which was "Hold onto the purse strings;
don't spend any money; hobble into the election; don't
take any long-term conditions; don't rip off the band
51
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
been blown up on both sides as to whether it was
100 per cent or 95 per cent. I wasn't interest in
getting into the middle of that skirmish.
I think the skirmish related to whether it was a target
or an ambition?
Indeed. Indeed
As you say, a skirmish about what was said at the
Inquiry, rather than something more substantive?
Absolutely. Absolutely.
We then get on to:
"[Ms Munby] also keen to be aligned as far as.
[possible], though reflected that the level of trust in
[the Post Office] Board/[management] isn't that high and
that funding will come with conditions/scrutiny (that’s
how HMT work) but agree with everyone playing in correct
lane."
Then, once again, it records:
[Mr Staunton] queried [Mr Read's] bonus.
*[Ms Munby] noted in the same place as pay.
[Ms Munby/Mr Staunton] agreed bad if they have to
repay and not worth it for the amount.
[Mr Staunton] thought shouldn't have [gone] to
[Ms Munby] in the first instance.”
Can you assist us with that discussion?
I can't remember what the issue was on the bonus.
50
aid". I mean, that was the message that I received from
this meeting; none of that, of course, has been minuted
If we scroll up, we see considerable time seems to have
been dedicated to the discussion of Mr Read's pay at
this meeting. It might be thought that matters of
redress, compensation and the detail of that is more
important than discussion of Mr Read's pay?
I think, if I were a postmaster, I'd be horrified
that -- when their remediation is going up 1 or 2 per
cent, and their costs are going up by more than that, ie
they're making less money and it's very marginal at
best, to see this sort of discussion of moving a pay
package to over £1.1 million, just for target, let alone
for good performance.
Why were you personally dedicating so much time to that?
Itwas astonishing. I think — firstly, I think Lisa
Harrington and Tom Cooper were very unhappy with what
was going on. As I say, we go back to the bonus that
had been unauthorised and paid up, and they were very
angry about it. They were very angry about the whole
way remuneration worked. So I talked to them and Tom
had a very good reading as to the Department, he said,
“Send it in, Henry, but you just get a refusal”. So
Grant Shapps did turn me down and I can talk through the
events after that in due course.
52
(13) Pages 49 - 52
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Q. We started today with the strategic priorities for
2022/2023 and the evidence that you gave was to the
effect that you were horrified by the approach that was
taken in that letter to the need for value for money,
et cetera, in respect of compensation issues.
You're now meeting with the very person who has
responsible for those issues, the very person who wrote
that letter to your predecessor. Why don't we see, in
either your note or their note, any significant
discussion of that issue?
A. Well, as I say, I was called in. It was a listening
meeting to hear what she had to say. She didn't
specifically raise those issues of the taxpayers’ money
and it ~ but it was her meeting. I just felt that is
a big issue to talk about the role of getting value for
money for taxpayers when it comes to the remediation for
postmasters. But I thought that was a matter we would
need to sort out in due course. It was way too early in
my tenure, after a month, to have formed firm views on
what was happening
Q. To give an idea of the relevant timeline, so far as the
Inquiry is concerned, on 6 and 13 July 2022, there had
been an Inquiry hearing on compensation. On 15 August
2022, the Chair had published a progress report on
compensation. You had been attending the Board since
53
Secretaries might earn versus how much the executives of
the Post Office might earn
Q._ I'd like to move on, before we take our morning break,
to some early observations after that meeting. Could
we, please, first actually turn to POL00423699 and this
is Mr Cameron's email on “The robustness of our
governance’, that was sent to Mr Read. We'll bring that
up on to screen. If we scroll over, please, to the
bottom of page 2, it's an email that the Inquiry has
previously seen in an earlier phase and no doutt it’s
an email that we will see again this afternoon with
Mr Cameron. If we scroll down, thank you.
Did you see this email at the time or thereabouts?
A. don't think I did, but I think Alisdair chatted me
through it, you know, as part of our conversations.
Q. I'll take you quickly through it, we've already seen it
with another witness, so I won't read it all out:
"We agreed to do a rapid, subjective assessment of
the issues around our governance, which we might want to
fix before we get an expert in.”
Were you aware of an expert being brought in to look
at governance issues at this stage?
A. Yes, and I was aware that Alisdair wanted to have
a chance to fix them before we got an expert in who just
repeated the fact that we had a problem.
55
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
October that year. We're now in the New Year, your
first meeting with the Permanent Secretary: why is it
that Nick Read's pay seems to take a great deal amount
of space on the page, whereas compensation, redress for
subpostmasters, doesn't?
Well, it was taking up a disproportionate amount of
time. I mean, in my witness statement it took up 10 per
cent of my witness statement, talking about what was
happening on the Chief Executive's pay. That just shows
how the priorities in terms of pay were to the
management.
What went wrong there?
Well, I think what went wrong was that the management
feel that this was meant to be more like a public
company than a company owned by the State and,
therefore, the remuneration levels should be closer to
that, than that of a public company. That, I think, is
what went wrong. And, to start with, I thought maybe
there's something in that but, you know, once I —~
almost once I'd seen Grant Shapps, I could tell that's
not the way Government looked at it. They didn't see it
as a company that was more like a public company; they
saw it as a company that was owned by the Government and
that’s why the Secretary of State, Grant Shapps, pointed
me towards how much he might earn and how much Permanent
54
"Board
"Membership. We need to get another accountant to
support Simon J. Sorry."
If we scroll down, "Group Executive", and there is
a series of issues regarding the Group Executive. If we
scroll down, (3) was "Decision-making".
If we could -- if I could just it's quite a big —
important there.
Absolutely.
He refers to ClJ and I think that's quite important to
touch on.
Yes.
Will you come back to that?
We can address that but there's a reference there to the
Cl scorecard. What did you understand by that?
What we had was -- if I could just step back a moment,
Justice Fraser issued two judgments. One was the ClJ,
which was mainly around contractual issues but included
some other items, and the HlJ judgment was really 15 big
recommendations on how we should move forward. So these
were really important, and the scorecards were there to
try and tick off what was ~ what Justice Fraser wanted
to make sure that we got there.
And Alisdair's comment here was actually that's not
what we're doing. We're not measuring the things that
56
(14) Pages 53 - 56
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
prop
oP
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Justice Fraser is really interested in, in terms of
losses, the rapid buttons for -- press if you've got
a problem, investigations, et cetera. So he was really
concerned that we were not moving in the right
direction.
Were you aware at that time of what the ClJ scorecard
was?
No, I wasn't. I wasn't aware of it at all. I was
interested because I felt that it was - we'll come and
perhaps talk about it later, as to the Board, as to
whether CIJ/HIJ was receiving the right priority, but at
that point I wasn't aware of the detail of what was in
the scorecard and what happened and that we weren't
measuring the correct things. It all came out from
talking to Alisdair.
At this point in time, did you have a view as to whether
the business was appropriately addressing those issues
in the Historic Issues judgment and the Common Issues
judgment?
I didn't have a view. It was -- before I joined the
Board, there was a board meeting where they discussed
actually implementing the HlJ and ClJ judgments in
November '22, and Nick Read reported that we didn’t have
sufficient funds to proceed both with the Horizon
replacement, and the ClJ/HIJ recommendations.
57
Justice Fraser's recommendations.
-- matters raised by Mr Justice Fraser?
Yes.
Can you assist us with approximately what time period
was when that decision was taken?
That was at the Board before I joined.
Thank you. We get to the NBIT system at point 4 of
Mr Cameron's email. He says as follows in respect of
NBIT:
"We have not had any formal governance of NBIT for
months and there is no date when we can expect it
“The [Group Executive] has no idea, for example, why
R2 has been delayed ...”
Is that a second rollout of some sort?
Yes.
*... or the extent to which it matters.
“No one is working on how we run [the Post Office]
after NBIT."
What was your understanding of the concerns
regarding the NBIT system at that stage?
They were very, very real. They were very, very real as
far as Alisdair Cameron was concemed. Normally, with
these big projects, you have an Executive Committee that
really gets into the detail and you have a Board
committee that looks at it more strategically in
59
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
And Tom Cooper said "Well, they're both equally
important’, but Nick said "If there's only room for one,
we should move forward with replacing the system". And
I said to him, "My view is, for what it's worth —
I haven't even been here a matter of a few days —
surely we should fix what Justice Fraser wants. You
know, an accountant starts -- with let's fix the basics
and spending £800 million on a new system, well, we
should get to that but let's do the basics that we can
because that will inspire confidence from our
postmasters that we have a system that they can rely
on".
But as a Chairman, you don't take the decisions.
The Chief Executive runs the company. That's very
important to understand. You're there to guide
thinking, nudge and, only in the last resort, overrule.
So I thought, "Well, I've raised it. I think i's for
Nick to think about" and, in the end, he thought about
it and, actually, the priority was the NBIT system. It
was not what I'd have done if I had been Chief Executive
but that was the view that was taken.
So the decision was to prioritise the new Horizon
system ~
Correct.
~ over implementing ~
58
governance terms, makes sure that the Exec Committee
know what they're doing. And the Executive Committee
was abolished in about November, as I recall, and that's
precisely why Alisdair raises the problem and it wasn't
set up for months.
And he says in a different memo that it's reckless.
And I said to Nick, "You know, we really ought to have
Executive Committee that runs this", but there was no
Executive Committee right the way through to the half
year and I was getting feedback from other people, of
Alisdair saying, "Look, there's a problem building up
here, the costs are out of control", and, sure enough,
in June we were informed as a Board that the project,
instead of costing 330 million-odg, it was going to cost
840 million.
I mean, that is an indication of how staggeringly
out of control this project was. So I think Alisdair is
probably not -- is being a bit kind to say what he said.
You've mentioned a decision in June or information that,
was provided to you in June.
Correct.
In your statement, you also refer to an incident in May
2023 where you say Jane Davies had spoken to Mr Cameron
and there is an allegation there that the full exposure
had been hidden from the Board; can you assist us with
60
(15) Pages 57 - 60
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
that allegation?
Well, only to the extent that I think Alisdair’s view
was that the truth wasn't coming out and, at the same
time, shortly after we had that John Doe letter which
said exactly the same thing, and I guess none of that
would have transpired if we'd had an Executive Committee
that was meeting fortnightly astride this project. It's
normal basic project control of a big project like that.
We'll get to the John Doe letter but, in your opinion,
is it your evidence that there was something intentional
about the lack of information being provided to the
Board?
‘Ah. That would be what was happening within the IT
Department. I think that there probably was
an intention for the picture not to emerge but I have no
evidence for that. That would be my gut feel. You
cannot have a project going from just over 300 million
to just over 800 million without some intention to hold
back that information,
Thank you. We'll look at one more document before we
take our mid-morning break. That's POLO0447866. This
is the Board evaluation report that you referred to
earlier. We're now at 28 March 2023. Was this a report
that you asked to be created?
No, it's a normal annual evaluation where we contact the
61
considered further when the Board is making decisions.
"4. The Board would like clarity on the shareholder
representative's role on the Board.”
Does that go back to the December 2022 discussion
that you were having regarding the UKGI Non-Executive
Director and the limits or extent of their role?
Partly. But it - also, for me, it confirmed what had
happened from these three Directors, one of whom left
after nine years and the other two left before their
time was up, and I got an independent review done by
Emst & Young as to their reasons for leaving, and they
said, "Look, we're about to leave, that makes it very
invidious for us". And I said, "Look, Ill tell you
what, talk to Emst & Young and I will ~ on a purely
private basis, because I need to know, as a matter of
record, why two of you are leaving early, really”
And one of the issues that emerged ~ that ~ the
key issue for me ~- that mainly emerged actually after
talking to them about the report ~ was the issue of the
UKGI Director. So it wasn't a surprise to see this
thing arising in this report.
If we turn to page 3, it sets out there the lowest
scoring questions. There's also a section on the
highest scoring questions.
Let's, if we scroll down, look at the lowest scoring
63
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
non-execs -- well, contact all the Board Directors, and
‘one or two others, to get their views on governance.
Thank you. There are points raised or areas for
development set out there, the first is regarding Board
agendas. The second is:
"The relationship between the Group Executive and
the Board needs to be strengthened, and priorities
aligned. There was concern about insufficient
information flows between the two groups..."
Briefly, what was the concern there and was it
a concem that you shared?
Yes, I think, to be honest, it's ~ the real issue was
for the Directors, that we get these very lengthy
reports, which are difficult -- there’s just too much to
read, and the main issue was that they were being asked
as Board Directors to take a decision, and that's very
unusual. Normally, in a Board, the Executives take the
decision and they bring it to the Board for approval,
which is very, very different. And I think that was the
issue about the information. It was information on --
but not in the way they would have expected to receive
it.
Thank you:
"3. The Board needs time to review and reflect on
its past decisions and customers’ views need to be
62
questions:
“To what extent does the Board review past
decisions? 2.3."
So a score of 2 means that the area requires
development; 3 is good or at the required standard.
If we scroll down, please:
“How would you assess the Board's approach to
considering the following stakeholder needs/views when
taking decisions:
“Customers.”
Again, 2.3
“How seriously does the Board take the development
of individual directors and the Board as a whole, and
where it needs to improve? 2.5."
It's these last three that I'd like briefly to focus
on:
“How effective are the relationships between’
"Non-executive Board Members and Management (in
providing support and challenge)? 2.8."
What do you see as the concern there?
Well, as I said, I hadn't been there long but it clearly
came out that there -- relationships between the
non-exec and the management weren't quite as good as
they would be in any other company I'd been there.
“The level of insight provided by the UKGI
64
(16) Pages 61 - 64
OYE ARON A
prop
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
representative into the strategic direction that the
shareholder aspires to. 2.8."
Is that much of the same that we've been
discussing ~
Yes.
--in relation to UKGI?
Yes.
Yes? Finally:
“How would you rate the quality of papers and
presentations received by the Board?"
Again, 2.8. Again, was that a concem that you
shared?
It was the point I made. It was not so much the ~
well, it would depend, really, what you mean by
“quality”. The issue was too much decision-making was
required by the Board and alll of this should be done at
the top management level, if not below,
Can we please turn to page 11. There are some open
comments there in response to the question:
“How effective do you consider past Board
Evaluations to have been and do you feel that
recommendations arising from past Board Evaluations have
been implemented with sufficient rigour?”
I would like to look at those last two bullet
points. First:
65
MR BLAKE: If we could take 15 minutes, so that's about
11.47.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: All right, fine
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
(11.33 am)
(A short break)
(11.49 am)
MR BLAKE: Still moving chronologically, can we please turn
to POL00448712. This is the Chief Executive's report to
the Board of 6 June. That will come up on screen in
a second. Thank you. The narrative states as follows:
“There can be little debate that the period since my
last Board Report has been one of the most challenging
for Post Office in its recent history. The combination
of the TIS submetric issue [that’s the bonus issue that
we discussed with Ms Burton] combined with the racial
codification scandal as well as legal challenges to the
[Historic Shortfall Scheme], has put the organisation on
the back foot reputationally, as well as politically.
It is also unlikely that this will cease in the near
term. The Select Committee hearing at the end of the
month along with the publication of Amanda Burton's
Report will ensure we remain in the media spotlight. It
is as yet unclear what approach the Government propose
to take with their Remuneration Governance review, but
67
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
"With a new chair I expect there will be some shift
towards greater challenge and accountability of senior
management.”
Was that a concern that you were aware of when you
joined, that there was a concern about the
accountability of senior management?
I don't want to be critical of my predecessor but I felt
that that was the case. I'm a fairly proactive chairman
in terms of getting things done and that's probably
fair. I saw that as an issue.
“There is a concem that the [Post Office] Board lacks
independence from its shareholder. The shareholder's
views are ostensibly given more weight than other
[Non-Executive Directors] or directors. [The Post
Office] Board should act in the best interests of [the
Post Office] (and it may have regard to its shareholder
interest) but not at the expense of {the Post Office].
It is not always clear this is being done.”
Again, is this much of the same in terms of the ~
A. This is the ten votes versus one vote situation.
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
Sir, that might be an appropriate moment for us to
take our mid-morning break, please?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Certainly, yes. What time shall we
resume?
66
its unlikely to be positive. The implications of all
of this should not be underestimated. A fragile and
brittle business is creaking. Morale is being severely
tested. A culture of fear is developing. Its this
final point that we should be especially concerned
about. Colleagues are fearful of putting their heads
above the parapet, of taking risks and soon, of
admitting mistakes. Risk aversion and paralysis is
setting in, which will not help our commitment to
transparency.”
Was that a view which you shared?
Yes, it was.
As at 6 June 2023 what, in particular, were you doing
about it?
I think just ~ I think I ought to make plain the role
of the Chairman because you asked a lot of questions
about remediation: why weren't you doing something about
it? I just want to make sure it's fully understood that
the Chief Executive of any company runs the company, is
responsible for everything on a day-to-day basis,
everything comes up to him. The Chairman's role is, if
he's not satisfied that sufficient progress is being
taken, you challenge, you nudge, you try and clarify
thinking but, in the end, you're under no -- you fully
understand, as the Chairman, that the Chief Executive is
68
(17) Pages 65 - 68
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
running the show and, if, in fact, you're unhappy with
the way he's running the show, there is only one option,
which is you find a new Chief Executive
But you're not running it, and I just want - you
indicated that somehow I was running the company.
That's not the whole of a chairman, just to be clear.
So on something like this, I was aware of it and we
talk about it, I understood what was happening and the
answer is what do we do about it, and that's what we
talked to the Chief Executive about.
So you say the role of the Chairman is to talk about
a significant problem where there is a culture of risk
aversion and paralysis setting in, and your solution
about that is to talk about it?
No, that's not fair. The answer is that, if you're not
running the company, you make suggestions as to what you
might - what you -- what Nick ought to think about
doing. But it's not a question of talking. You make
suggestions as to how you tackle the problem but it's
for the Chief Executive to tackle the problem and sort
it
What were the concrete suggestions that you made to Nick
Read to resolve the very serious issues that he
highlighted in his annual report to the Board?
Well, his monthly report to the Board. Yeah. Well, my
69
because the business is expanding, and that actually is
also part of dealing with this culture of fear.
‘Am I to understand from the answer you've given, then,
that your answer is that the way to address the problem
here is greater commercial success?
That's part of it. Without any question, that always
lifts morale in any company. If you're doing well, it's
amazing what difference that makes to people: taking
decisions, not being fearful, et cetera. It's not the
only reason but it's, without question, in my limited
experience, it's a factor.
Are there any other concrete suggestions that you made
at that time in order to resolve the problem?
I can't remember the detail but there was no doubt it
was a big issue and I think that Nick, not unreasonably,
felt that this was not going to be solved immediately.
Itneeded a longer-term issue. It came out even in the
evaluations that we did -- staff surveys. I've never
seen even with top management, we did the survey, that
culture of fear and worry. So this was something that
was not going to be sorted without a lot of thought and
a lot of movement on all fronts.
Is there anything over and above thought and movement
that you would suggest could resolve those problems as
at that time?
al
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
main concern -- and I touched on it right at the
beginning -- which is we have layers of management and
no one is taking a decision. Even before this culture
of fear, decisions were not being taken right at the
level. Everything was being passed up, and there was
this fear, possibly — and this is what Nick said ~
possibly because of the Inquiry, you know, that they
were fearful of making decisions because they might be
up to give evidence.
I found that unlikely because we weren't talking
about a level of management where they would come before
the Inquiry, but that was his view and that was part of
the explanation: we've just got to get through the
Inquiry and things might normalise. I think that it
was -- it was more than that.
This business is not fleet of foot the way
I would -- other retailers, Granada, WHSmith, you know,
the way they would tackle it. It wasn't fleet of foot
in that sense and I wanted to talk to him about my
experience at Smiths and how we might make the business
more fleet of foot and, of course, a lot of this thing
comes back to, if you have commercial success, a lot of
bits fall into place. So I was actually very anxious
to ~- if we are successful, people will confident about
what they do, they will feel they have a secure job,
70
Well, I can't remember the detail of it but, you know,
the fact is it needed to be dealt with on a number of
fronts, and I didn't feel that the management were being
slow in that regard. I could quite see that, with the
lack of commercial success, with the Inquiry, et cetera,
why people were fearful. I understood that.
Let's move to the John Doe letter that you've referred
to already in your evidence. It's POL00448689. It's
an anonymous email, subject "Whistleblowing’, and it's
directed to you:
“I'm writing to you directly because I don't trust
the Post Office whistleblowing process and escalations
into Nick Read have not been dealt with. This email
will also be sent to Sir Wyn Williams and Darren Jones.
"The disaster of NBIT is well known across different
levels within the business. Recently a number of people
have raised concerns to Nick Read that have been
ignored. More than one individual is aware and has told
Nick the Board have been told untruths by the NBIT team
and CIO about the extent of defects and timescales for
R2 rollout that now won't be delivered until August, if
then."
Were you aware of those issues when you received
this email?
Yes, I think I explained before that we'd had ~ I'd had
72
(18) Pages 69 - 72
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
feedback from Alisdair in May that things were being ~
well, it goes right back to the fact that we didn't have
an Executive Committee for some months, so, you know,
that wasn't good project control. So when Alisdair said
there was a problem brewing in May, I fully expected
that -- I wasn't surprised, and then, of course, Nick
reported to the Board in June. This is when the project
moved from 340 million to over 840 million.
So it was all about this time. By the time of this
note, I was aware the project was looking at, with
contingency, over £1 billion. I mean, I was obviously
shocked by it and ~ as you would expect.
The next paragraph:
“There has been no governance in place for NBIT for
a long time and what has been in place hasn't done what
it's supposed to. Even the new steering group operates,
on misinformation because no one really has a clue
what's going on, how long it will take to fix and can't
be open about how broken the programme is because it's
already gone too far."
Was there a feeling within the business that it was
now effectively too big to fail?
No, I don't think that was the case. I think my view
and the view of my fellow directors was that this was
an appalling situation to have, to suddenly, within
73
should hold our hands going forward
As you'll see from my witness statement, I was a bit
sceptical because I said I was concerned that the
consultants were talking the project up and, to
a certain extent, the management, the IT management,
were influencing the consultants. So, even though I got
the Accenture report, I just had in the back of my mind
that they were just saying "Press ahead" and I just
wanted -- I wanted to know if there was a cheaper
solution, which I did talk to the CIO about at some
length. So it wasn't as if — trying to explain to
you -- as if nothing was done when we saw this
£1 billion. The answer is quite a lot was done.
Let's continue scrolling down. It says
“The NBIT project team and RTP teams work in silo.
NBIT is secretive and told not to share updates or
information with anyone from the wider business. The
RTP team are being stood up to understand gaps in the
NBIT plan that should have been managed under the ClO
and NBIT Director ..."
Was anyone being held accountable at this stage
within that team?
Yes. The -- Mr Read felt that the NBIT Director
probably just wasn't coping and we needed to make
a change.
75
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
three months, have a project to be costing over
£1 billion when we thought it was going to be
300 million before. But I didn’t think — there was not
a feeling that it was too big to fail. As I put in my
witness statement, the answer is we needed to have a ~
at £1 billion, we needed to have a rethink about what on
earth was going wrong, and Nick Read and I agreed that
we would ~- the monthly spend needed to be slashed while
we took stock of where we were.
Just to explain, if I could, with NBIT, there was —
we had to ~ well, the decision was taken before my
time, which was should we have a system built off the
shelf, or have it done specifically for us and then, if
it's done specifically, should we do that in-house or by
some experts?
And Post Office had taken the decision that we would
do a specific system built in-house. That was the most
risky route to take but that route had been taken by the
time I got there. Once we had this £1 billion number
thrown at us, we agreed that we would get Accenture in,
get them to do a review of what should take place, and
that’s what happened. And Accenture felt that what the
Post Office were proposing, which was to have it built
in-house on our own, was actually the right decision,
although they recommended a partner, ie Accenture,
74
Can we scroll over the page, please:
“Setting up two separate projects under different
leaders has been a colossal mistake from Nick which he
did despite being warned against it by the CFO and
others. It has led to infighting and openly combative
and negative behaviours from some of his {Group
Executive] and other senior leaders
Were these kind of views isolated? Were they views
you were aware of more broadly? Did this take you by
surprise?
I'm not sure -- I didn't agree with the fact that it was
wrong to have two separate leaders, and I know we've now
gone to having one team but, actually, the RTP team
really was to take ~- their responsibility was to take
a system developed by the IT Team and implement it
within post offices. It was a totally different set of
skills that were required. And we had a manager called
Kate Secretan, who was just fantastic but she couldn't
have written an IT program but she could really deliver
at what goes on at the Post Office.
So I didn't disagree with having two teams because
of the skill sets required. Equally, once you have two
teams, there's always a degree of bickering and you have
to make a management decision as to the pluses and
minuses of those two.
76
(19) Pages 73 - 76
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
©
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Qa
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Scrolling down:
“There is inefficiency in business but especially in
the Transformation, Retail, CIO and NBIT teams.”
If we scroll down:
“The CIO is the worst leader I have experienced in
a long and successful career. He is open about
misleading the Board with inaccurate dates and cost for
NBIT and is incapable of making a decision or having
a difficult conversation.”
Was that a view that you were aware of or that you
shared?
Well, clearly, when you see a project go up to
£1 billion from £300 million in the course of three
months, clearly something is being hidden from you.
If we scroll down over the page, please:
“Retail path clearing is an expensive and time
consuming activity that needs to be delivered before the
new system can roll out but this is the day job of the
Retail Team and nobody with the ability to fix it seems
to be questioning why they've not been doing what they
should be or why the retail director isn’t owning fixing
it now."
Then there's a section there that addresses Mr Read,
and it says:
"Nick Read has openly acknowledged and accepted the
77
gender divide at the top. We have [a Chief People
Officer] suddenly disappeared from the business who
happened to be the only female on his team."
Now, without identifying any individuals involved or
anybody who has been a whistleblower, broadly, looking
at that is paragraph, what is your view?
We had a huge cultural problem there. Certainly, even
when I joined, there was any one female in the Executive
Team, which I said to Nick, that's just — doesn't fly.
Ethnicity was very poorly represented across the team.
You heard odd comments about “jobs for the boys". I'd
heard them and understood why those comments were made.
What do you mean by that: you understood why those
comments -- oh, why these comments —
Yeah, because we did have a problem with ethnicity, we
did have a problem with gender.
“Nick made comments last week to the senior team about
the horrific behaviours of the people who were part of
the Horizon debacle especially if they are stil in the
business. He doesn't seem to see how much of this is
still going on and it feels like he’s doing exactly what
those people did before saying if you were here in the
past you need to go regardless of the situation.”
Now, we've heard about Project Phoenix and the Past
Roles Project. In your view, as at this time, was the
79
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Pp oOro>
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
failings of some of his [Group Executive] team to more
than one employee that's been to him to express
concems, but has taken no action to deal with it. He
is also aware of toxic behaviour from senior leaders and
again does nothing to address it even when he's
witnessed it directly. He refuses to make the difficult
decisions and nods along when people raise concerns,
saying everything they want to hear, but then does
nothing to resolve it. He is aware he has senior people
in the role not doing what they should like Jeff Smyth
and again does nothing to manage or deal with it, even
though it's a waste of public money.”
Was this a view that you were aware of or shared?
Yes, probably. Yes.
Yes, to both: you were aware of it and you shared it?
Yes, yes.
“The culture in the business is disgusting”
Although I say that, that is my perspective. It is fair
to say that this was an incredibly complex decision, the
Horizon decision. So it's -- I would put that in
mitigation in terms of my criticism.
“The culture in the business is disgusting and starts
from the top with Nick and the [Group Executive]. More
than one person has heard comments from [Mr Read] about
public school education and there is a class, race and
78
business doing enough in respect of those people who
were involved in the underlying issues remaining in the
business?
The underlying issue, with regard to Horizon, was we
didn't have an Executive Committee managing in a normal
project control sort of way what was happening. That
was what was -- so there was no - if we'd have had
that, these issues, no doubt in my mind, would have come
to light. So, you know, a lot of this would have been
dealt with — most of it would have been dealt with.
I know you don't like the question "What did you do
about it’, but can I but that again: what did you do
about it?
No, well, I thought I'd said really, which is I said to
Nick, "Never in my experience have we not had
an Executive Committee running a project like this"
I did institute a Board committee, an investment
Committee, so there was this overview of what should
take place, and Andrew Darfoor agreed to chair it, and
he's a very, very competent person. But the fact is
that a board committee doesn't work unless you've got
an Executive Committee reviewing these things on
a day-to-day basis.
What about the fundamental cultural issues that are
addressed here?
80
(20) Pages 77 - 80
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Well, that's — okay, so that's a different issue at
all, that's got nothing to do with Horizon.
Yes. What were you personally doing in respect of those
fundamental issues?
Well, I think that you will have seen the evidence given
by Saf Ismail and Elliot Jacobs as to how hands-on I was
with regard to dealing with the issues of postmasters
and how we should treat them, and of course there's
a big ethnic issue within that. So I was doing a lot in
that area.
I think, with regard to Horizon, it is a project,
and really a project has to be managed by the Executive.
So, if there are issues that are being hidden, if
there’s a feeling that it's - there are too many public
school jobs for the boys, that's for the management to
sort out and, like I said to Nick, that’s what we need
todo. And if we had a proper Executive Committee it
would get sorted out.
Can we please turn to POL00448509. There's then
a discussion at Board level on 5 July about the letter.
If we scroll down, we can see there's a heading
"Speak-Up", and if we see below it says:
“The Chairman shared his view that some of the
allegations raised did not appear to be strictly
whistleblowing issues and that it may be in order for
81
experience, I've never seen an organisation that uses
consultants so much, by a factor of five. It's just
very, very - it's a really good question. It's very
unusual and it would not happen in a normal corporate.
That's absolutely right.
You personally did instruct a number of those
organisations, or were involved in the appointments,
should I say?
Well, I didn't — I was keen for Accenture to give the
Board an independent view and I was keen for Grant
Thornton to be involved on governance type issues, yes,
that's right. But I'm talking just more generally.
If we could tum to the Grant Thornton report. That's
at POL00446477. We see over the page it was
commissioned in October 2023. So were you personally
involved in the commissioning?
Correct.
Yes. If we turn to page 7, we see there the "Key
findings". The Inquiry has been through this report
already and the key findings: are there any in
particular there that stand out for you that you were
concerned about?
Yes.
I appreciate that this wasn't published until a year
later?
83
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
the Board to consider a different approach to address
[those allegations}."
And that is because some of those issues were to do with
‘competence and management, rather than whistleblowing,
which is to do with more cultural type issues.
We see below that, if we scroll down the page, Mr Read
addressing the Board. Now, given that some of those
cultural issues were directed towards Mr Read's own
abilities, do you think that the Board at that point
scrutinised those cultural issues sufficiently?
Well, with regard to competence, the Board felt it was
up to them to form a view, after a review, as to whether
we felt the competence was right, and that is why we
agreed to appoint Accenture to give us a view on all
these things. So we didn't do nothing, we actually felt
that would deal with competence. Ifit was to do with
cultural, well, that should be part of the investigation
into Mr Read, which it was.
We have KPMG involved by this point, Accenture involved
by this point. We're going to move on to Grant Thornton
also being involved by this point. What is your view as.
to whether the Post Office farmed out these issues to
too many external agencies and didn't deal with it
themselves?
I think that's a really good question. In my
82
Yes. Well, I think a key one is the first one, which is
actually everything stems from having a proper
group-wide strategy, and I think -- and my view for the
strategy, which I touched on with the Secretary of State
on the day she fired me, which was we needed to have
a far more postmaster-centric organisation, with more
postmasters on the Board, and it would change our
culture in terms of how much we spend, we would be
farming out a lot less to people and spending public
money in that area, and I think what I saw was a slim —
this was only a viable business if we slimmed it down
significantly, but that would require funding. So it
was the key issue for me, without doubt.
Just looking down there, I think --
Could I ask you about number 5. 5 is:
“Culture ~ a lack of trust, accountability and
performance management. [Post Office] is plagued by
a pervasive culture of reluctance to make decisions,
driven by fear of public scrutiny ..."
Now, this very much echoes the observations made by
Nick Read that we looked at earlier, that were made in
June 2023.
Yeah.
It looks as though, by the time of this report of
25 June 2024, so a year later, that was still a problem
84
(21) Pages 81 - 84
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
>
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
within the business. Do you think that under your
chairmanship, sufficient was done to address that issue?
Yes, I think we were trying to deal with it. I think,
as I said before, the management structure was all
wrong, and it just encouraged this reluctance to make
a decision and performance manage, and everything was
'd never seen that in
moved up in a business ~
a business before.
There are a number of cultural issues. The biggest
cultural issue, of course, relates to how postmasters
are viewed in this organisation. We could probably come
back to that, what is missing —
We will come back ~
What I thought was missing -
-- to that chronologically in due course. Let's stick
with the timetable. We're in October now when this
report has been commissioned. Let's move on now to
November. Can we please turn to POL00448694. We're now
in November. If we scroll down, actually, if we could
go to the bottom of page 2 into page 3, this relates to
something called Project Venus.
Briefly, do you recall Project Venus, as a name?
Is this -- I think is this to do with the postmasters?
Yeah?
Yes —
85
So, essentially, you're pointing out there that the
money owed by Elliot Jacobs was, in your view
de minimis, given the period and given the amount of
money passing thorough his accounts?
No, these were not ~- that's precisely the point —
these were not loans to David Jacobs (sic). What we had
here, as with any retail organisation, we had
a difference on an intercompany account. Just as you
have with any supplier relationship. This did not ~
and it's £200,000, but even £200,000 is de minimis in
terms of the amount of business going through Jacobs’
account.
So it was, in any normal organisation, you've just
done a reconciliation of intercompany accounts, which
eventually we did, and we found that only £15,000 or so
was owed by Jacobs, which was infinitesimal in terms of
the business going through.
But what had happened was that the Legal Department
did a complete investigation into these two Postmaster
Directors. I think it was vindictive, I think it was
all to do with there were raising issues with regard to
postmasters generally, and it was completely out of
order, and what we had was a situation — was, even
though when we found, I think Sir Wyn said it took
a year to get to do this investigation? And the answer
87
ONOnrRona
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
pp
>
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
Postmaster —
~ so let's have a read of that, the bottom email. It's
an email from yourself to Simon Jeffreys, who was
a Board member. I think was he the Chair of the Audit
and Risk Committee?
Yeah.
Actually, if we scroll down, we can see his email to
you, and he says:
“Lwas made aware of this project this evening.
“It would be helpful, please, if you could numbs
date me before {the Audit and Risk Committee] on Monday.
Happy to give you a call tomorrow if convenient.”
Then we see your response and you address the
investigations into Mr Ismail and Elliot Jacobs. You
say:
"The balances with Elliot, as with so many
postmasters, is problematic partly reflecting the
complications with Horizon. A summary of the saga is as
follows. A detailed investigation was undertaken by the
Investigations Team and a balance of under £15,000 was
agreed as owing by Elliot. This built up over a period
of 6 to 10 years. Bearing in mind that about £1 million
a year goes through the intercompany account, the
difference built up over a period of years is
de minimis."
86
is: it took a year but actually it could have been done
in months but it was held over these two poor people for
year. That's why I say it was vindictive.
If I could stop you there. Were you surprised that the
Chair of the Audit and Risk Committee by this stage,
after a considerable period of investigation, wasn't
aware of this issue?
Well, it's because these investigations, as part of our
procedures, are not made public because, you know, these
people -- as it turned out, these people were completely
innocent. So we just wanted to find out what had -
what the position was.
Now, what happened was, the Legal Department, as
part of this -- the word is not "vendetta", but as part
of this attack on the Postmaster Directors, were saying
these were loans to directors, when they clear weren't.
It was just intercompany trading. That's why I pulled
you up on the word "loan". This wasn't a loan; this was
intercompany trading and nothing more. And they said
‘somehow that the reduction from the £200,000 to the
£15,000 was a benefit in kind.
It wasn't. It was the fact is the Horizon system
was lousy and it was giving these wrong figures and we
could only prove £15,000 that was owed. So there wasn't
an issue.
88
(22) Pages 85 - 88
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
You then say:
“Foat spent a considerable amount on legal fees.
I asked a subcommittee of Lorna (as the Shareholder
Director) and Amanda (a lawyer) to look at legal advice
Saf and Elliot have a feeling that Foat will just
not let it go ~ that he keeps raising the matter that
somehow Elliot and Saf had an undisclosed conflict of
interest (I gather he said that to you ...).”
Yes.
"They deeply resent that. They say it shows the [Post
Office] has not changed in that they think that all
postmasters are crooks. It is getting heated now when
I thought he had cooled the situation weeks ago.
“I thought the whole matter had been finalised
following Amanda and Lorna's review but it seems that
Foat opened a second front with you!
“I have not seen the note that is being considered
so am unsighted on what is proposed. Saf and Elliot are
obviously concerned that a note will lead ..."
Is that a Freedom of Information Request?
Yes.
*... which they think is Foat’s aim. They think the
matter has been investigated fully and the balance found
to be owing is de minimis and [Freedom of Information
Act Request] will just allow Foat to pursue his
89
figures.
And you can see that the Chairman of the Audit Committee
agreed
Yes. Now, we do know that, by this stage, there was
an investigation into a whistleblowing complaint that
had been raised by Ms Davies, but can I confirm that it
is your evidence that, by this stage, you are not aware
that it concerned you?
Correct.
You've suggested in your witness statement that the
investigation into the Subpostmaster Non-Executives may
have had some sort of ulterior motive. Can you just
assist us briefly with that, please?
Well, I believe, and so do the Postmaster Directors, it
was because of their comments about the unsatisfactory
cultural issues within the company, that the postmasters
have got their hands in the till, guilty until proven
innocent, you will have seen all of those issues raised
by them, and I think they felt that this was, in their
view, some sort of payback vendetta.
As I've said, also at this time the company is dealing
with the allegations made by Ms Davies, the Chief People
Officer or the former Chief People Officer. The Inquiry
isn't investigating every aspect of that complaint, and
the reason the Inquiry has named Ms Davies is because
1
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
2
Qa
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
vendetta."
Very strong words at this point in time being used
in relation to Mr Foat. By this stage, November 2023,
were you aware of an investigation into your own.
conduct?
No.
If we scroll up —
Can I just pick up on one thing, though, which was --
and this was not just being 100 per cent supportive
towards the Postmaster Directors. When the £15,000 was
found to be owing, the Post Office agreed with Mr Jacobs
that he could just add that to the intercompany account
and deal with it that way, and I said no, I want you to
write out a cheque. So I don't want any doubt that
there's no loans to a director here, and they said,
“Well, we've agreed what we're going to do with the Post
Office". I said, "Nonetheless, I would like you to
write out a cheque”. So it's not a question of just
siding with the postmasters; I took a firm line on that.
If we scroll up, we can see that exchange of
correspondence with Mr Jeffreys, and he asks for some
more information on the top of page 2 because of the
difference in the figures.
Then, if we go to the first page, we can see you
give a more detailed explanation in respect of those
90
she has been previously publicly named in respect of
this issue.
In terms of timing, if it assists your answers, the
speak-up complaint from Ms Davies was made on
4 September 2023. Ms Davies is said to have named you
part of, albeit not the main complaint, but as part of
that -—
No, she didn't name me at all. I wasn't named in that.
I'm coming to it. On 10 November, it is suggested that
she is subsequently said to have named you as
an individual who had made a discriminatory comment at
a meeting with external recruiters. As I say, we're not
addressing every single issue in today's hearing but, in
terms of timing, it does seem as though, by the time
this happened and the concerns that you've raised there
in vociferous terms regarding Mr Foat, she had, by that
stage, named you personally?
But I wasn't aware of that. Can I just say that
Ms Davies, as she said to the Select Committee, this was
a complaint by her into Mr Read and Mr Read alone, and
she has said in writing that she thought this
investigation was weaponised against me, following my
support of the postmasters.
In terms of notification to you, then, when is it you
believe that you were notified that you were the subject
92
(23) Pages 89 - 92
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
prop
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
of that investigation?
I think sometime in December.
Thank you. Looking at the timeline again, the ITV drama
was 1 to 4 January 2024. So we're now moving to early
2024, and there was a letter that was sent to the Lord
Chancellor. By way of background, can we please look at
POL00448701, please. This is a letter from Nick Vamos,
a partner at Peters & Peters solicitors. I think the
actual letter is undated, but it must be prior to the
letter to the Lord Chancellor, which is 9 January. He
says as follows:
“I wasn't sure who within {the Post Office]
currently is engaged on this issue but I assume you all
are.”
Was this a letter that came to you at all?
No.
Do you know who it went to?
I assume Mr Read and Mr Read alone.
“I have been listening with growing concern over the
weekend to the report that Alex Chalk {who was then the
Lord Chancellor] is actively considering ‘stripping {the
Post Office] of its role’ in appeals and/or using
legislation to overturn every conviction. I assume he
is considering the HCAB [that's the House of Commons]
recommendations in their 14 December letter and
93,
points can be misunderstood or watered down by the time
they reach a Minister, and this is one point that cannot
be made strongly enough.”
He then identifies other issues. The second issue
relates to the Crown Prosecution Service unlikely to be
taking a more generous approach than the Post Office.
The third issue is that there are still many cases
that need to go via the CCRC and it has rejected 31
applications based on clear confessions and/or other
corroborating evidence of guilt.
“The fourth issue is the unspoken assumption that
the [Court of Appeal Criminal Division] would overturn
more convictions if only {the Post Office] would let it
Then if we scroll down over the page, please, the
letter ends as follows:
“Please let us know if you need assistance from
Peters & Peters in ensuring that the Government has
a clear and comprehensive picture of all the relevant
issues in its current decision-making process. If it
does not, or they are not presented clearly, I am very
concerned that the outcome of that decision-making
process will not be in the interests of justice, PFAs or
POL."
Were you aware of a request for this letter having
95
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
attachment. My concem is not that the Government will
implement any of the recommendations, but that it will
do so on a false basis because it does not have alll the
relevant information and advice it needs to determine
whether it will increase the number of successful
appeals.”
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Sorry, Mr Blake, to interrupt, but isn't
HCAB the Horizon Advisory Board, not the House of
Commons?
MRBLAKE: Absolutely, my apologies, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: That's fine
MR BLAKE: “The most significant issue is that all the HCAB
recommendations and the recent media and political
response is based on a false assumption that there are
700 wrongful convictions, therefore there are hundreds
of miscarriages of justice still out there whose route
to justice is somehow being thwarted by [the Post
Office] and ‘the system’. In reality, itis highly
likely that the vast majority of people who have not yet
appealed were, in fact, guilty as charged and were
safely convicted. Unless this is made clear to the
Government, it risks making incredibly important and
expensive decisions on a completely false premise. I am
sure that this point has been or is being made to
whoever is briefing Alex Chalk, but I also know that
94
been made or do you know if it was volunteered; do you
know the background at all to production.
A. No, nothing of it
2
Was it something that you have discussed with Mr Read?
A. hadn't discussed it at all. I was absolutely
horrified when I saw this because we were getting
absolutely nowhere on exoneration for postmasters based
on a very faulty system, and I was in some despair and
then the dam broke with the Mr Bates programme, and we
were getting somewhere, and you'll see I wrote to Nick
Read very early in January and said, "You know, there's
‘some progress happening here".
Nick was slightly more in the ‘guilty as charged’
camp, whereas I was of a different view and I said,
“Well, let's just keep out of this, this is a hugely
difficult decision for the Government to make in terms
of exoneration, and let's let them make it". And
I thought we'd agreed that, so when I saw this letter
going to Alex Chalk, I just thought that's not -- that
should have gone to the Board because it was actually
expressing a view that I'm not sure that ~ I didn't
share and I don't think most of the Board did
\ did write to the Minister and I said, "Thank you
for all the comments you made in Parliament the previous
day, in respect of exoneration and I'm hugely grateful
96
(24) Pages 93 - 96
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
for your support”
Let's have a look at of the ultimate letter that was
sent, the Inquiry has seen it before, it's POL00448381.
This the letter to the Lord Chancellor from Mr Read. If
we look at the second paragraph, it welcomes the
publicity generated by the ITV drama but it says:
"We also have a duty to the Court in respect of our
role as prosecutor in some 700 of those cases which
resulted in convictions."
‘The paragraph below says that they have carried out
an exercise to identify which would be highly likely to
concede in court
“This has enabled us to write, proactively, to
a further 30 potential applicants in addition to the 142
resolved cases and the five awaiting consideration ..."
But then the paragraph below sets out the natural
corollary to the exercise, which has been to identify
those cases in which:
“... on the information available to us, and
following the judgment in Hamilton, we would be bound to
oppose an appeal. Typically, these cases involve
convictions obtained by reliance on evidence unrelated
to the Horizon computer system. The number of such
cases is very much more significant, at 369, with
a further 11 still under review."
97
within the Board, particularly the Chairman of the
Remediation Committee.
Will we see in the minutes of meetings you voice that
concern?
No, but, again, as I said, my style was to say to Ben,
“Ben, that doesn't make any sense". They quoted 550
cases at that January Board, which they were looking at
in terms of exoneration, and they said there were only
12 per cent that might be considered. And I said, "That
doesn't make any sense that only 12 per cent were based
on Horizon". As you saw, they're now admitting that it
was up to half were based on — so these quiet words do
make some progress in terms of moving the numbers.
But you're Chairman of the company, you're chairing the
Board meeting. Isn't the Board meeting the time to say,
“Hang on a minute, we've got this approach entirely
wrong"?
The issue is manage. We have a separate Remediation
Committee, chaired by the Senior Independent Director.
He reports to the Board and we take a view on what he
said. He's got the feel for it. But I would say that
the majority of the Board probably shared my view that
this probably didn’t make any sense but the detail was
being handled by the Remediation Committee, so I think
it's very difficult as a chairman, when you've got your
99
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
1 So the suggestion being put there, between those two
2 paragraphs is that there are 30 potential applicants, in
3 addition to the 142, but the number that they would
4 oppose, significantly higher. Is that your
5 understanding of what was
6 A. Yes, about half is what they said. If I could just step
7 back a bit, at the January 2023 meeting, the KC acting
8 for the Post Office, Ms Gallafent, came to the Board and
9 I asked her specifically why are so few people coming
10 forward, and she said "Well, there are a number of
"1 reasons, one of the reasons is that they may be guilty’,
12 but she gave a whole lot of other reasons, which
13 I thought were perfectly reasonable, but it's
14 interesting that Mr Tidswell, who is the Chairman of the
15 Remediation Committee, said the reason they haven't come
16 forward ~ "If they haven't come forward by now, they're
7 probably guilty, and the Post Office — we as the Post
18 Office have a duty” ~ that was the words -- "we have
19 a duty that those who are found guilty remain guilty”.
20 ‘And that sent a chill down my spine because that was the
21 beginning of the year.
22 That's why I was in despair. I thought, "How on
23 earth are we going to get exoneration back on the map",
24 and it only came with Mr Bates
25 So it gives you some understanding of the feeling
98
1 Senior Independent Director saying there's a duty for
2 them to be ~- remain guilty, and —
3. Q.~ Mr Staunton, this isn't a matter of detail; this is
4 a matter of fundamental —
5 A. Absolutely.
6 Q@ —culture
7 A. Absolutely.
8 Q~ Why, as Chair of Post Office, were you not at this time
9 making the feelings that you have expressed today in
10 your evidence, why were you not making that known at
"1 Board level?
12 A. This was in January'23, a month after I'd been on the
13 Board. As said, that would have been ludicrous at
14 that point to have that firm a view.
15 SIRWYN WILLIAMS: Sorry, Mr Staunton. I'm getting confused
16 about dates. I assume that this discussion that
17 Mr Blake is suggesting to you that should have been
18 occurring at a Board meeting, was in 2024, just after
19 Bates v The Post Office had broken.
20 A. Yes, Sir Wyn, I was just trying to give some background
21 as to what was the position a month after I joined in
22 terms of ~
23 SIRWYN WILLIAMS: Yes, but we're a year on from that,
24 aren't we?
25 A. Okay, but I hadn't related to explain that situation —
100
(25) Pages 97 - 100
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Sorry.
‘A. --which was the feeling ~ I was trying to give
a background to where people were coming from at that
point, which was the case in December. That's why.
MR BLAKE: Okay, but we're now in January 2024. We have
a letter from the CEO to the Lord Chancellor, almost as
high up as you can possibly go in terms of
correspondence.
A. Yes.
Q. What were you doing at Board to make known that you had
fundamental concems with this approach?
A. I don't think there'd been a board meeting since the
letter from Nick Read, had there, to -
Q._Did you send an email saying, "I totally disagree with
this letter, why did you send it?”
A. I did. I think it’s on the email trail, isn't it,
“Nick, we agreed that this was not ~- you're expressing
a view from the Post Office which you know is not my
view and this should have had Board approval". So I did
do that, precisely.
And there hadn't been a Board ~ there was going to
be a Board the week after I was fired, where that was
firmly on the agenda
Q._Looking broadly at the culture at the Post Office at
this particular time, can we please turn to POL00448699.
101
have ‘devised options’ to work through outstanding
convictions ‘with much more pace’, but noted the Lord
Chancellor would need to speak to senior members of the
judiciary for advice first..."
So it looks as though there's movement towards --
Absolutely.
-- the exoneration?
PoP
And that's why I replied to the Minister thanking him
for his efforts.
Q. Thank you. If we scroll now to page 1, we see an email
from Mr Foat, which is copied into you, so that encloses
the entire chain. It says as follows:
“In addition to my note on Saturday setting out
a range of points on legal, governance and comms, I do
think it may be worthwhile that a one pager ‘fact,
checker’ is drafted
“There are a number of facts that are actually
erroneous in the media, ie that all convictions are
unsafe etc. If it [sic] such matters are overtaken by
a political decision and legislation I believe it will
be important to have an accurate position of why it was
that the Government and [the Post Office] were in this
position, ie [Court of Appeal Criminal Division] not all
700 are unsafe convictions based on Hamilton; current
legal rules mean that the convict claimant must bring
103
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
This is the same day as that correspondence. Can we
tum to page 6, please. There's an update on the
discussions in Parliament.
“As you may know, the Post Office Compensation Bill
is a short, fairly technical piece of legislation that
essentially looks" -- sorry, this is from December,
we're going to see in due course. It start with
an update on the Post Office Compensation Bill.
If we scroll, please, to page 4 ~
I don't think I was copied on this note, was 1?
No. I'd just like to ask you, really, about your --
you're copied on the first - sorry, this chain is
ultimately sent to you and we'll see on page 1 in due
course but, if we start on page 4, on 8 January, so the
day before that letter was sent, at the bottom of the
page, we see:
“As you will know, the Minister provided a statement
in the House of Commons this evening on the ‘Horizon
Compensation and Conviction Update following media
covering of {the Bates drama] and mounting pressure ..."
If we scroll down, we can see concems being raised
there in the second paragraph:
“Although the Minister did not have a substantive
update on compensation, he did note that he had met with
the Lord Chancellor Alex Chalk today and together they
102
the Appeal -- it is not up to [the Post Office] to just
overtum all of them etc..."
In your view, what was the view of the Executive,
the Legal Team and the wider business at this point in
time in relation to the possible movement by Government
to provide a blanket exoneration?
Well, my view is there was no propensity — no interest
at all for overturning convictions, I'm sad to say,
whereas that was not my view. I thought these
convictions of these poor postmasters and their families
were based on a completely unreliable system and it was
obvious to anybody ~ I'm not a lawyer but it would be
obvious to anybody who is not a lawyer that that was
just an incredible decision. So we got to the right
decision eventually but it was not one that had much
support within the Executive of the Post Office, as you
see from Nick's letter and you see from Mr Foat's.
letter.
We then get to 13 January, and I think this is the email
that you're referring to, in which you express concerns
about the letter. Could we please look at POL00448703,
43 January. You say:
"Dear Nick,
"Thank you for forwarding your letter to Alex chalk
as requested. I was surprised to read it following our
104
(26) Pages 101 - 104
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
1 conversations that we would not become involved in any
2 way in what is a very difficult decision for Government
3 and our justice system
4 "You say that we are not making a value judgement
5 but then attach a letter from our lawyers which makes
6 the statement ‘It is highly likely that the vast
7 majority (of postmasters) who have not yet appealed were
8 in fact guilty as charged’. If that is not a value
9 judgement I do not know what is. He also makes another
10 value judgement that no one would have a more generous
ca approach than [Post Office] -- a view I would not share
12 based on my assessment of our past behaviour.
13 “A third party would see this letter as Post
14 Office's lawyers ‘continuing to defend the
15 indefensible’, ‘Post Office has not changed’ etc. That
16 assessment of others would do a huge disservice to the
7 efforts of the current Board and management team as we
18 seek to accelerate justice and generosity for wronged
19 postmasters.
20 "Please ring me over the weekend to discuss.”
a So you do very clearly, as at Saturday 13 January ~
22 A. Crystal clear.
23 Q. Crystal clear. It might be said against you that, by
24 that date, you had an invitation to be interviewed in
25 relation to other whistleblowing complaints, the
105
1 Itis a view deep in the culture of the organisation ...
2 including that postmasters are not to be trusted.
3 SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE."
4 What was your view on that issue?
5 A. totally agreed.
6 Q “Martin Roberts and certain members of his team were
7 singled out. There has been no feedback on the
8 investigation into Roberts (including for inappropriate
9 behaviour and lack of integrity). He was responsible
10 for the postage stamps debacle where changes were made
ca to accounts by his team just like Fujitsu. If Elliot
12 had not been on {the Audit and Risk Committee] the
13 controls would not have been strengthened. Roberts and
14 his team do not want any extension to their terms of
15 office as they believe new [postmasters] would not have
16 the experience to challenge them.”
7 Again, what's your view on that?
18 A. That's slightly more detailed and I was much less aware
19 of these issues of postage stamps debacle, et cetera.
20 It was all news to me but Elliot said that, if he had
a not raised them at Audit Committee, things would not
22 have been done. I did not understand the detail. I put
23 it in there because I wanted these two to know that
24 everything they'd said to me reflected their views.
25 Q. Thank you. Then we get onto a section on Mr Foat:
107
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
Ms Davies complaint that we have referred to, and that,
in some way perhaps that played a role in you suddenly
reacting in this way with such a strong tone. What's
your view of that?
Well, you saw the evidence presented by the postmaster
NEDs who said that I was absolutely consistent. These
are absolutely consistent with my views explained
throughout this process.
Could we please turn to POLO0448302. We are now on
14 January and, as you say, we are now getting it to the
Project Pineapple incident and your involvement with the
Non-Executive Directors. Could we please turn to
page 4. This is an email exchange that we have seen in
the Inquiry. Am I right in saying, in fact, where it
says 10 January, it should read 14 January?
So it's the -- just after you've sent that email,
I think, to Mr Read, the day after, the Sunday after.
This notes your views --
It's not mine —
Sorry, it records the views of Saf Ismail and Elliot
Jacobs:
"Saf said the views expressed by Richard Taylor, and
previously by management and even members of the Board,
still persisted ~ that those [postmasters] who had not
come forward to be exonerated were ‘guilly as charged’
106
“Equally, Saf and Elliot are FED UP WITH THE AMOUNT
OF POWER WIELDED BY FOAT. He and other members of the
senior team act as if [post masters] ARE GUILTY UNTIL
PROVED INNOCENT ... We must also part company with all
those investigators who behaved so terribly with
{postmasters].”"
Again, at this stage, what were your concems with
regard to Project Phoenix and the Past Roles Project?
There are these people called the untouchables who are
in the investigations team, or reds or whatever, and
they were involved in dealing with all these issues in
the past, sending ~ finding postmaster guilty.
I think it's very important for the Inquiry to
understand this is not something that relates to the
past. This is something that relates to the future,
Before we implement Horizon, we will be doing
a path-clearing exercise. There are millions of pounds
in dispute between postmasters, what's on their records
versus what is in the Post Office's account, and I am
very afraid that, if they are investigated by the
so-called untouchables, we will have another debacle,
Not quite to the same extent, but we could never have,
you know, hundreds of postmasters again having to pay
out monies.
And I think I was referred to in some of the
108
(27) Pages 105 - 108
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
correspondence that you may have seen with Elliot, but
this is not something that relates to — this is a big
issue going forward, the involvement of the
untouchables.
You refer to them as “untouchables”. Is that a word
that you had heard used?
A. No, it was the -- I think it was ~ it was used by Nick
to me privately and he did refer to it in a meeting we
9 had with all of the non-execs there, and that's why
10 Iwas slightly surprised when he said he didn't
ca recognise the term
42 Q. What did you understand him to mean by that term?
43 A. [think I understood him to mean that these people that
YOO R ONS
f)
14 were involved in prosecuting postmasters previously,
15 they were still in their roles and, therefore, would be
16 involved in any future investigations, and were under
7 the — they were — we classified all of these people
18 under various colours, and they were the same as the
19 so-called reds, ie would be involved in future
20 investigations, which just seemed utterly wrong.
21 Q_Ifwe scroll down, we have the reference to a small
22 amount of £16 in compensation being paid to one
23 postmaster. It then refers again to the 48 people
24 involved in investigations, and I think you record being
25 told by Mr Ismail and Mr Jacobs that there were 40 just
109
1 referred to me. So I was absolutely very confident that
2 had nothing to fear. It was a 12-page report by
3 Ms Davies and she had an 80-page dossier to back it up,
4 and the only sentence -- there was one sentence in it
5 with regard to me. So I wasn't concerned at all
6 Moving on to the Project Pineapple report, it was
7 Sunday night, I was at home, I didn't prompt them to do
8 it. They rang me with their concerns, it was nothing
9 more. And I said to them, "Firstly’, I said, “this is
10 very tricky for you chaps, you know the Post Office as
ca much as I do. This will be of -- have serious
12 consequences for you. They could end up - you could
13 end up losing your businesses". And they said, "Henry,
14 we feel this is the right thing to do is to bring this
15 out into the open".
16 So it was their initiative and I think they were
17 very courageous to do it. So I said "I will send a note
18 the Board just highlighting your points, it won't be
19 a formal report but I'll just ~ for discussion, and
20 I will want, if there's a single word in this note/email
a that you don't like, I won't send the email haven't
22 I want both of you to agree to every single word”. And
23 they both came back to me and said, "That's exactly what
24 we said”.
25 Q. Thank you. If we go over the page, we can see the final
11
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
like Mr Bradshaw.
it then says:
“As a Board, we need to send a signal to the
Executive providing guidance and improving the culture
significantly. The current culture was described as
toxic ..."
Again, this is your record of the note of that
conversation.
The most important one is the paragraph you've missed
out, which is they say "The postmaster is not the
enemy’. That's vital to understand
So that's just above the highlight:
"The [postmaster] ‘is not the enemy’. ‘Only
[postmasters] can solve this’ and tell us how to change.
JB [I think that's Mr Bartlett] is an ex-policeman. His
behaviour has been unacceptable and he needs to move on
to prove we have changed."
Now, I have to put it to you, because others have
made this suggestion, that your interest at this point
in time in these Pineapple issues, in the letter that
was sent by Mr Read, is prompted, in some way, because
at this stage, at this point in time, you yourself were
under investigation in relation to those allegations.
Well, let me ~ this investigation was an investigation
primarily into Mr Read. There was one sentence that
110
point there as well, regarding postmaster membership on
the RemCo.
One final document before we break for lunch ~
That's really important, sir, if I may say so --
Yes.
— that the Postmaster Directors feel that they're
treated as second class citizens, so they're not on
important committees like Rem, and that's important.
You know, they refer to a two-tier board and when I've
said to them “Are you referring to the fact the two.
tiers with regard to just the two of you not being
given — treated with respect by the management, or is
it because you have this inner cabal of Ms Gratton,
Ms Burton and Ben Tidswell versus the rest of the
Board?", and they said, "Well, sometimes it's one and
sometimes it's the other"
So here is me desperately trying to keep this Board
together and yet there are these issues about some
people feeling not involved. But the fact is we need
postmasters on Boards like the Rem because itl bring
a different perspective to what is a reasonable salary
to take, because postmasters think £800,000 is a lot of
money per year, let alone £1.2 million.
We are going to look at one more document before we
break for lunch and I'm afraid we will go over lunch
112
(28) Pages 109 - 112
23
24
25
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
today. Could we turn to POL00448381
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: While that is coming up, Mr Staunton, can
you just tell me who decides which directors sit on
which subcommittee?
A. The NomCo decide, the Nominations Committee. The
Nominations Committee decides, but the Chairman also has
a view on it. I did actually talk to Mr Read about why
don't we have a member of the -- one of the Postmaster
Directors on it and he said, "Well, you know, they just
wouldn't take a commercial view of what is the right
salary because, of course, they come from the postmaster
environment”. But I think --
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I wasn't delving into the merits of the
particular --
A. It's the Nominations Committee, sir.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I guess I wondered who made the decision,
that's all.
A. The Nominations Committee.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Fine.
‘A. They would take some notice of the Chairman in terms of
that but it would be the Nominations Committee.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So the Nominations Committee but the
Chair can seek to exert influence, is that a fair --
A. Yes, that would be a fair way of putting it. They would
listen very carefully to any views I had.
113
report was wrapped up many weeks ago. I understand the
tremendous upset you (and Saf in the case of his
investigation) have been subjected to. This requires
an investigation. I had sent a filenote of the views of
our [Postmaster Non-Executive Directors] with regard to
Ben Foat. We should see tomorrow whether our
[Non-Executive Director] colleagues should take action.
I told Andrew yesterday that all the {Group Executive]
and FOUR Main Board Directors had been investigated. He
was incredulous.”
Can you assist us with that: at that point in time,
what were those investigations that were going on?
We've heard about the two non-executive subpostmasters
being investigated, the suggestion here is that all of
the main Board Directors had also been investigated.
‘A. No, there was the -- obviously, Nick was being
investigated, I was being investigated, you had the two
postmaster directors -- so that was the four ~ and the
Senior Management Team, most of them had been subject to
investigation. This was ~ it's difficult to
comprehend. This was completely and utterly unusual,
the power of the Legal Department to investigate people.
Q_ So we have, by this stage, all of the Group Executive,
four board members. We also have, as a background,
a falling out in respect of that letter that we saw to
115
4
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
cs
12
13
14
15
16
7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yeah, okay.
MR BLAKE: If we can start on page 2, please. There's
an email from Mr Jacobs to Melanie Park, who was the
Central Operations Director. We've seen this email
before; he was waiting for his finalised report in
respect of the investigation that was going on into his
branches, and that's 16 January.
If we scroll up, we can then see that he sends that
concem to you. You say:
"Below you'll see correspondence from between myself
and Mel Park regarding the fact that (his] trading
account has [not yet been] updated with the removal of
the invalid claims of losses nor a letter of withdrawal
of the investigation to be issued.
"Who is responsible ... legal. Again. How are
legal in the way of all things progress and good in this
business? Proof, if proof was needed, that their
fingers are in every part of the pie affecting our
ability to get work done to such a level that it is
frankly beyond belief.”
You then respond and it's your response that I'd
like to focus on. You say:
“This is completely unsatisfactory -- I was under
the impression after talking to one of the
[Non-Executive Directors] handling this ... that the
414
the Lord Chancellor. Everything that's going on at this
point in time, it looks like a bit of a circus, doesn't
it?
Well, the issues around the GE, that was all much
earlier in the year so this was not something that was
a circus at the time. This just shows the power that
the Legal Department had over months and months and
months. So it's not all happening in December. But the
fact is, there's no getting away from it, from January
following the Lord Chancellor letter, following the
Richard Taylor letter saying, you know, all the
postmasters have got their hands in the till, just
outrageous stuff.
The fact is that January was the most turbulent
month that I've had in my whole 50-year career in
business and particularly in all the man years I've been
a chairman. I don't deny that.
What do you see as fundamentally having gone wrong by
that stage?
To have a position like that, there are all sorts of
strands, one, of course, is the role of Gl and the UKGI
Director; there's the role of the Legal Department;
clearly there's an issue around Nick and I trying to
keep this show on the road, but I think we both were
working incredibly hard in that respect. Even three or
116
(29) Pages 113 - 116
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
four days before I was fired, I wrote to Lorna Gratton
saying, "Look, Nick here just feels totally unsupported
We do need -- this is a terribly turbulent time for the
business, we do need to give him some more support’,
because a lot of these issues, you're saying it's almost
self-inflicted, but these were coming from out -- the
Richard Taylor thing was coming from left field, as it
were, as was, of course, the Lord Chancellor situation
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
Sir, that is an appropriate time to take our lunch
break. Can I ask that we come back at 1.50?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: How is the shorthand-writer with that?
MR BLAKE: Yes?
Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right, 1.50.
(1.01 pm)
(The Short Adjournment)
(1.50 pm)
MR BLAKE: Good afternoon, sir. Can you see and hear me?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, thank you
MR BLAKE: Can we turn to POL00448381, we are still in
January of this year, we are still on the subject of
Project Pineapple.
Now, before this email was sent, there was also
a meeting on Teams on that day, regarding the new Senior
417
when we had all these issues arising during the early
part of January, other non-executives at the meeting —
it wasn't me drawing -- I was just being a servant of
the Board -- other non-executives said, "You know what,
I voted to go to a Whitehaller, I think there’s so much
happening that we should actually go internally”
So I said "That's a massive decision to take, I want
you all to go away and think about it, not just rush it
at this meeting", and I rang them all afterwards and
said "Which do you want to do?" And a vote of six to
two came out to remain internally. So it was not my
view at all. I was being a servant of the Board trying
to work out what they wanted and of those two —
Were these votes taking place transparently?
Yes.
Were they known to the other members of the Board?
POPD
Yes, the only two that voted against was Ms Gratton and
Ms Burton. The Chief Executive and everybody else voted
to go internally because one of them said "When the
facts change, you change your views". So it was not me
pushing this at all; it was the Board pushing for we
need a change of mind and I said to them "This is
a massive decision, we need to go through a proper
process of a NomCo and then a Board and Andrew will be
there for part of it", because then it emerged that
119
2
ONOneRwON a
9
10 A.
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
2 Qa
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
Independent Director; do you remember that?
Indeed.
The Inquiry has heard evidence that, by that point, you
were expressing a view that the appointment should take
place internally, rather than through an external
recruitment firm; is that right?
No.
Can you assist us with that, please?
Yes, what happened was that — let me put this thing in
context, which was that the existing SID was leaving to
go to the competition and markets authority. We needed
to find somebody else. UKGI, in the form of the Chief
Executive, rang me, absolutely properly, to say, "Look,
we're not telling you what to do, but actually, just to
let you know, the shareholder will have a strong
preference for a Whitehaller to be SID, Henry, but we
realise this is the Board's final prerogative", and
I said "Fine",
So we then did — we went round each of the
non-executives, I did that with a phone call but with
the company secretary with me. We did a vote as to what
we should do, and four directors voted to go internally
and four voted to go with a Whitehaller. And I said, in
view of the shareholder's preference and a split vote,
we should go with the Whitehaller. Then, of course,
118
their choice was Andrew Darfoor, an internal director,
to be the NED, and I said we would then do a proper
process where Andrew would be there part of the time and
he would leave the room and we would discuss it and view
it. So it was not pushed my me at all. Absolutely not.
We've heard evidence from Ms Burton. The suggestion
that you confirmed to the Board that Mr Darfoor would be
the Senior Independent Director and that you would
bypass the usual process?
Absolutely not. You'll see the email trail which says
that is the view, six to two, in favour of Andrew, but
we need to have a proper NomCo and then Board to discuss
that. So not at all. I was just reporting the vote.
Ms Burton happened to be one of the two that voted
against and the other one was Ms Gratton but, including
the Chief Executive, everyone else voted to stay
internally because of the view. And I should say that
I knew (unclear), it goes right back to his 2003 report,
the choice of a SID is a matter for the Board, not the
shareholder, and the shareholder has to approve it and
that’s why we need to go through a process, but it's
a matter for the Board to decide and the vast majority
of the Board wanted to go internally and most of those
voted for Andrew.
In your view, is there some sort of miscommunication
120
(30) Pages 117 - 120
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
1 that's taken place here or something else?
2 A. Well, I think the fact that Ms Gratton and Ms Burton
3 voted against, and I don't know what they took exception
4 to it, and I think - I mean, it was unfortunate that we
5 had to stop the process but that was ~ you stop the
6 process if the Board has changed its mind and there was
7 nothing odd about this. But I think it was ~ I can't,
8 I wouldn't like to put the motives as to what - why
9 those two adopted the story but the vast -- and the
10 Board has since appointed Andrew Darfoor. The will of
ca the Board has eventually come through loud and clear but
12 we went through the hiccup of UKGI saying that this
13 somehow wasn't proper.
14 Q. Now, at the same meeting on 18 January, you also
15 discussed the Project Pineapple issue; is that right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Can you assist us with the conversation as far as that
18 matter went on 18 January?
19 A. Well, I think I ask the two non-execs to outline their
20 views and, obviously, they did and I think most of the
a directors were shocked they weren't that clear -- they
22 weren't so clear as to how bad the culture was. But
23 some of them had some sense of it. Those that went
24 around to talk to postmasters, et cetera, were more
25 aware of it. I mean, I was aware of it because I go to.
421
1 So I sent it to Nick and then, during the course of
2 our meeting, Amanda Burton said, "You won't believe it
3 but Nick has copied that note to the Legal Director and
4 the Retail Director who are the subject of their
5 complaint.”
6 @Q_ Itappears that you've had a discussion with Mr Read
7 about it. What was your understanding from that
8 discussion as to why it had been forwarded?
9 A. Well, I think he was very busy and he said he was very
10 sorry, and I then wrote to the Board saying he was very
ca apologetic and he was going to apologise to Saf and to
12 Elliot subsequently.
43. Q. That's the email that we see on screen at the moment?
44 A. (The witness nodded)
145 Q. Looking at the timeline that we've been looking at
16 recently, we have the investigation into Mr Jacobs not
17 yet withdrawn. We have the investigation into Mr Read
18 and into you, relating from the Jane Davies complaints,
19 we have the here now Project Pineapple email being
20 disclosed and the fallout internally from that. We also
a have a fight between at least you and two of the
22 non-executive directors in respect of the appointment of
23 the Senior Independent Director, and —
24 A. Itwasn'ta fight.
25 Q Adispute.
123
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
prop
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
postmaster conferences and they say to me, "Oh, I've
just been on the helpline and they've said ‘There's
another Mohammed on the line", and the answer was
I said, I'm ~ "Does that happen often?", and they said,
“More often than you'd believe", and I just had to say
to postmasters, "I'm terribly sorry, that is not the
culture that we want to have"
So—
Mr Staunton, let's stick to this issue now, as at
18 January. Let's turn back to the email. This is
an email that you sent confirming that the confidential
note had been forwarded to those who had been named in
the Project Pineapple email
Yeah.
Can you assist us with your understanding as to why it
was forwarded on?
Well, this ~ just for Sir Wyn's benefit, there was this
email that was the complaints about the culture within
the Post Office towards postmasters and, because we had
this meeting coming up, I said to Elliot, and he seems
to have forgotten about it, I said, "Look, I think it
would be a mistake to bounce this off Nick, I need to
send it to him. Are you okay?" And he said "Yes, he’s
going to see it anyway”. Initially, we said he wouldn't
see it, and I said "Fine".
122
No, the Board —
Your accounts are fundamentally opposed to one another,
aren't they?
Yes, but that's not the ~ I'm just telling you how it
was from the perspective of me and the six directors who
voted in favour of Andrew Darfoor.
There was a dispute, therefore, between you and those
who had not voted in favour of the appointment of
Mr Darfoor, was there?
No, I don't think there was. I think it wasn't
a dispute either between the six and the two. The fact
is that you -- quite often the Board get a majority vote
and you should actually normally go with the majority
vote.
So--
Itjust so happened that one of them was the UKGI
Director.
As far as you are aware, as at mid-January, there wasn't
in any way a falling out over the —
No.
~ appointment of a Senior Independent Director?
No.
Putting that issue to one side, looking at those other
issues that I've just highlighted, we're a couple of
weeks now after the ITV drama. Who is focusing their
124
(31) Pages 121 - 124
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
mind on compensation and the redress schemes at the Post
Office?
Well, the compensation redress scheme was handled by the
Remediation Committee and I don't sense that there was
any slowing up on that at all. We would be —- it was
going to be reported to us in the meeting the next week,
as to where they were, and I would have -- if I had not
been fired on the Monday, I'd have been in the office
getting a catch-up with the Remediation Committee before
the Board
There are lots of matters going on at Board level and
Executive level in terms of people being investigated,
people being upset by the circulation of the Project
Pineapple email. Do you think that there was sufficient
attention, at that point in time, to the issues facing
subpostmasters?
Well, I think you've heard from the two Postmaster NEDs
how much attention I gave that issue. They were very
complimentary about my efforts in terms of they said it
was my biggest priority, which it was.
What about the business more broadly?
Well, that was also requiring quite a lot of my time but
it was - I was ~
Sorry, I meant what was the reaction or the efforts of
the business more broadly, the Executive and the Board,
125
top priority.
We know at this period of time you were also being
investigated into the allegation relating to Ms Davies.
There are several allegations that follow that you tried
to change the scope of the investigation or stop the
investigation that was being carried out by
an independent barrister and that, separately, that was
in some way perhaps motivated by a desire to limit the
investigation into yourself. What's your account in
relation to that?
Well, I initially raised these points about limiting the
investigation well before I knew there was going to be
an investigation into me because the investigation into
Nick Read started months earlier and, actually, it was
a litany of complaints that were being made, and it was
very distressing for him. So I said we need to not stop
the investigation but to limit it to focus on the main
points, so that we could actually get to the truth of
the big issues, and that was agreed.
It wasn't agreed until January, I admit, but that
was what I was trying to -- I wasn't trying to stop it;
was trying to limit it in respect of Nick Read and
I was doing that before I was even investigated, based
on one sentence in Jane's report, and she said it was
nothing ~ she had no complaints about me.
127
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
>
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
in relation to the subpostmasters and focusing attention
‘on subpostmasters, rather than spats between themselves?
I don't think that the non-execs sawit as a spat.
I think the non-execs saw the fact that some people had
changed their mind, I think they were quite pleased that
the majority was six to two. Ifit had been five to
three or four all, it could have been more spiteful.
But I think ~ I don't think it was a spat at the Board
level —
Putting aside the Senior Independent Director issue —
Oh, sorry,
~ I'm talking about the investigation into Mr Jacobs,
I'm talking about the investigation into Nick Read and
into yourself, Project Pineapple and the fallout there.
There seems to be a lot going on at this period of time
in relation to matters that don't directly involve
subpostmasters. Do you think the business was focusing
sufficiently on subpostmasters at this point in time?
The fact is that there was a huge attention towards the
subpostmasters and remediation. It may have been for
a few days we were focusing on some governance issues,
but the fact was that, certainly for me, giving
attention to not only our subpostmasters existing but
also remediation for subpostmasters who have suffered,
particularly for those who had had convictions, was my
126
But moving beyond that, the fact is I didn't try to
stop it, I tried to limit it, but only in respect of
Mr Read.
Then there had been some issues made that I didn't
cooperate. The fact of the matter is I was in Nick
Read's room we were talking about all the issues
relating to Mr Bates, and I said I'd done absolutely no
work yet to prepare for there is Tutin investigation, he
said, "Nor have I", he said, "I have asked for
a two-week extension", and I said, "Well, I shall ask
for that too because I haven't spent any time”.
Nick Read was granted the extension; I was not.
So I think, and I still went ahead, completely
unprepared, into this investigation with Tutin. So the
fact that you say that people say I tried to not
cooperate, I cooperated fully, even though I wasn't
prepared, and I wasn't given due consideration of extra
time, when you think of all the things that have
happened. So it's a complete -- it's completely wrong
to say I didn't cooperate.
It's suggested that you put Ms Burton and Ms Gratton
under pressure to change the scope or limit the scope of
that investigation; what's your view on that?
My main correspondence, all the time, was with the SID
because I think that was the right thing to do, and you
128
(32) Pages 125 - 128
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
see that he wrote back to me saying, "Yes, we've agreed
to split these complaints and Nick into three
categories", so my main -- I may have told them what
was talking to Nick about but I didn't put any
pressure on them. The discussions were between me and
the SID, as it properly should be.
It is also suggested that you asked Ms McEwan and
Ms Sheratt to stop the investigation. What do you have
to say about that?
These are relatively less senior people, so, of course,
I wouldn't have done that.
It's also suggested that you did the same to
Mr Tidswell?
Oh, I did talk ~ not in my own case. No, I didn't in
respect of my own case. I was talking to Mr Tidswell
before it became into me, but my main conversations, if
not my only real conversations on this matter, were with
Ben Tidswell.
Why do you think it is that allegations are being made
about you that you tried to stop or change the scope of
that investigation for your own benefit?
Well, I think I quoted the fact that this seemed bizarre
and weaponised ~- the word "bizarre" about this
investigation was used by the current SID, Andrew
Darfoor, and the fact that this was weaponised against
129
No, it doesn't. That's exactly the case. This was
a report into Nick Read. I'm not saying -- forming
a view one way or the other but there was one sentence
on me and yet, because I'd taken the side of the
postmasters, this was weaponised, to use Jane Davies’
comment, and is not recognised. The charge of racism is
not recognised by the three — and these three directors
that wrote those references for me, one is Jewish, one
is black and one is a Muslim, and all three of them said
how not only was I not a racist but, actually, I was the
biggest supporter of ethnicity on the Board. So, as
I say, there's a different story from the one which
you've heard from Amanda Burton.
You're focusing on one particular aspect of the
allegations but the allegations against you included,
for example, that you attempted to change the scope or
stop the investigation into you?
I've dealt with that, which -- I've dealt with both the
fact that I didn't cooperate and tried to change it.
The other allegation is that you improperly interfered
in the appointment of the Senior Independent Director?
And I've dealt with that too. Six to two of the Board
wanted to appoint an independent -- wanted to appoint
Andrew Darfoor.
The suggestion, then, that I have to put to you, that is
131
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2
>
2
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
me because my support for postmasters is my view.
And that was confirmed in the letter that you may.
have seen that has been written by Saf Ismail. I was
approached by the institute, who said, "We're going to
strike you off after 50 years as an institute member”.
So I rang the three of them up ~- at this point,
I didn't know I was going to come before the Inquiry and
they very kindly issued references to say, "Actually,
there's not an ounce of racism in Henry, we don't
recognise any of this. If we'd been asked to sign the
report, we would not have done"
You asked me why. Saf Ismail said "I think that
Henry's paying the price for having supported
postmasters". You may have seen that, and the other two
also made comments, Elliot said it left a nasty taste
with him, he wouldn't have approved the report, had he
been asked to sign it and Andrew Darfoor said it was
bizarre and he said that one person involved with it has
been subject to some disciplinary, and he said others
have been discredited and he doubted the Secretary of
State would have said what she'd said if she'd have
known the true facts.
So the truth of the matter is there is another side
of the story you've been hearing
It sounds rather elaborate though, doesn't it?
130
said against you is that it would be a rather elaborate
plot to try to get rid of you because of your actions on
behalf of subpostmasters to invent those three matters?
Well, if, in fact, it's ~ the SID issue is, as I've
said, which is I was acting as a servant to the Board
and the vast majority wanted to go internally. Those
are the facts.
Moving to your dismissal. On 27 January this year, you
found out from a journalist that you were going to be
removed; is that right?
Correct.
What were you told at that stage?
He said that I was going to be replaced and it was the
first thing I said to the Secretary of State: it's
astonishing that one finds out from the press. That
wouldn't happen in any normal business that that would
take place.
Do you know where that information had come from?
No.
Do you have a belief as to where that information came
from?
I wouldn't want to publicly speculate.
So you have no information in that case?
I have no information, no, but the Secretary did say we
have a very big department so who knows where it came
132
(33) Pages 129 - 132
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
22
23
24
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
from. That was in the bit of the conversation that
wasn't taped, unfortunately.
Q._ So you don't wish to speculate but it seems as though
you had a conversation with the Secretary of State in
which it may have been suggested that it came from the
Department?
A. That would be tying two things together, and she didn't
admit that it came from her Department, no,
Q. Speculated?
I wouldn't want to speculate.
Q._ Could we please turn to BEIS0000931. Now, this not your
note of the conversation but this is a note of the
conversation between yourself and the Secretary of
State. Some of it we have —
>
A. Sorry, I'm
Q._ It's going to come up on screen in a second. It's
BEIS0000931. Thank you. We have a recording, which is
obviously the best evidence, but the recording doesn't
start until slightly further down, so let's just go
through the first section of this recording to see your
view as to whether it's an accurate note of what was
said
“KB [that must be Ms Badenoch, the Secretary of
State] started reading from the script:
“rm sorry to be speaking to you under these
133
Secretary of State?
Absolutely.
Yes?
Yes, sorry.
pPop
We'll now play the recording because, as I say, that is
better evidence than somebody's typed note, and we'll
just listen to that until the end.
(The recording was played)
MR BLAKE: That's why we hear the beep, contact details have
been taken out of the recording. But if we can carry
on.
(The recording continued)
MR BLAKE: That's just the provision of an email address.
(The recording continued)
MR BLAKE: Thank you. That's the end on the recording.
Now, tracking back to where we started this morning, we
had, even before you became Chairman, that letter to the
then Secretary of State regarding Mr Read's pay,
followed by the meeting with Sarah Munby in the January,
a year before this conversation that we've addressed at
length today. We then have a Board meeting where the
Minister attends and, as we saw, very little discussion
about matters such as compensation, et cetera.
Why is it only when you are being dismissed that you
are raising the issues we've heard being raised directly
135
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
circumstances. I understand that given the increased
media scrutiny at the moment, these are difficult times
for the Post Office. I'm speaking to you today to tell
you that the Government, as sole shareholder, is
exercising our power, under the company's Articles to
remove you as Chair of Post Office Board.
*[Ms Badenoch] noted that she was sorry it was
coming at short notice -- the media have gotten hold of
the story and we've heard they will be breaking the
story. [The Secretary of State] noted she wanted to
speak to [you] first but officials will send a more
formal record of the decision shortly.
"[You] noted it was too late and was called by
a reporter this morning to comment on the story. [You]
noted how upset [You] were at this.
*[Ms Badenoch] started to note how important culture
is at the Post Office and concerns about [your]
behaviour had been raised.
“[You] then started to describe some of the events
over the last four weeks reflecting that the Post Office
as an organisation is operating in an extremely
challenging context.”
Now, we're going to get on to the actual recording
but, so far, do you consider that to be an accurate
account of the discussion between yourself and the
134
with the Secretary of State regarding UKGI, regarding
culture, regarding the CEO?
Well, as I've said to you before, you've heard the
postmasters’ evidence, and they told you how much it was
the front of my priority right throughout the year. So
that's the first thing. Secondly, in respect of my
contact with the Secretary of State, I had some contact
with Mr Hollinrake, who was the Minister. In fact, in
corporate land, just to be clear, the contact always in
a business is between the Chief Executive and the
shareholder.
Because I was involved ~ with all four of my
companies we were quite active in acquisitions,
et cetera, and I was known to have some expertise in
that area, I would quite often go to shareholders on
very special deals, particularly if they were putting up
new money. But the day-to-day contact with the
shareholders, in the corporate world, it's always done
by the Chief Executive. Now - so that's what I was
completely used to.
The Secretary of State now says, "Oh, you should
have seen me". If she'd wanted to see me, of course
I would have gone but, for me, coming from the corporate
world, that was the normal way things were done and
Mr Read saw the shareholder on a regular basis, reported
136
(34) Pages 133 - 136
prero
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
prop
>
A
Qa
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
back to me what was said, which is exactly what would
have happened at any of the companies where I was
a chairman of.
The Post Office isn't like WHSmith —
No.
~- or another company --
No.
--it's a very different type of company that is owned
by the shareholder, the Government. You're expressing
very strong feelings in this meeting about UKGI and
about culture, matters that go to the very core of
issues that you're saying —
Absolutely.
-- have occurred at the Post Office.
Absolutely.
Why leave it until your dismissal to raise those
directly with the Secretary of State?
No, because you've seen that Nick Read was also aware of
them and he was talking to the shareholder about them.
So it wasn't being held back from the shareholder but
the relationship between ~ at the Post Office, the
relationship between the shareholder and the Chief
Executive was always with the Chief Executive -- that's
what the previous Chairman said to me was the way it was
done and it didn't surprise me because that's what I was
137
So I did say that the civil ~ secret civil servant
had asked me to "hobble" into the election and I think
I -- it's not reported there, but to stall on cash
payments generally, including compensation and Horizon,
and the business.
The reporting there is “compensation payments to Horizon
victims". That's obviously significant for the
Inquiry's purpose and for the public's purpose?
No question.
Did you say that you had been told, instructed by
a senior civil servant, to stall on compensation
payments to Horizon victims because of, in some way the
next election --
Stall on payments inter alia, including compensation.
We saw the discussion earlier today —
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Sorry, can I be clear about that.
A
I appreciate that newspapers ~ this is a newspaper
report of what you had to say but I would like you to be
as precise as possible, Mr Staunton. Did you say words
to the effect that you were instructed by a senior civil
servant to stall on compensation payments to Horizon
victims?
To stall inter alia on payments.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, I doubt whether you'd have said
inter alia to the newspaper.
139
ONOneRwON a
9
10
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
A.
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
used to in the corporate world. So it was nothing to do
with me; it was the way the relationship that the
shareholder had with the Chairman of Post Office, both
me and before me.
Could we please turn to RLIT0000256, please. Now, after
your dismissal on 18 February 2024, you had had
an interview with The Sunday Times; is that correct?
Correct.
We see here the reporting of that interview. Could we
scroll down, please, and focus on page 3. Thank you.
The first bullet point says:
“He was instructed by a senior civil servant to
stall on compensation payments to Horizon victims so the
government could ‘limp into the election’ with the
lowest possible financial liability."
Is that an accurate recording of the information
that you provided to the newspaper?
I did use the word “limp” and, of course, when I found
my filenote, I found that the word was "hobble" so that
was factually — because The Sunday Times said, "Look,
the Government are saying this is all wrong, so can you
find your filenote", which I did, because, by that
stage, the Secretary of State has said, "He lied in
Parliament". That was never repeated once I found my
file note.
138
No, on all payments including compensation, yeah.
MR BLAKE: Perhaps we could turn to page 5 which
A.
Qa
If I could just say, sir —
No, I'm going to ask the question and then you can
address the Chair but let's look at page 5, please, and
the bottom of page 5 because it has words in quotation
marks. It says as follows:
"Early on I was told by a fairly senior person to
stall on spending on compensation and on the replacement
of Horizon, and to limp, in quotation marks -- I did
a file note on it ~-limp in the election’, he said
‘It was not an anti-postmaster thing, it was just
straight financials. I didn't ask, because I said, "I'm
having no part of it -- I'm not here to limp into the
election, it’s not the right thing to do by
postmasters". The word “limp” gives you a snapshot of
where they were’."
Is that a direct quotation from you to the
journalist?
It would be words to that effect.
It appears that you had told the journalist that the.
words “limp into the election” related to compensation
and the replacement of Horizon, not broader matters
relating to the Post Office; is that correct?
25 A. No, I would have said on all payments, including
140
(35) Pages 137 - 140
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
compensation and Horizon. There was only the other one
which was operational costs because the Inquiry was —
obviously would be what it would be. It ~
We saw earlier today the note of the conversation that
you had and in neither your own note or the Department's
note was there any reference to compensation.
The ~ there were -- there -- you saw from my note that
there were huge pressures on the Government, you saw
from my note that she wanted to -- that I was instructed
to hobble into the election, that all costs had to be
strenuously considered, and the only costs that we had
were Horizon, remediation and operational, and the
Inquiry and so all of those were included. So I put
compensation in Horizon, maybe I should have said "and
operational costs".
The suggestion may be made in due course that you're
only belatedly raising compensation because you knew
that that, in particular, would embarrass the Secretary
of State and the officials who work underneath her?
No, it wasn't. If it - you must -- my strength of
feeling for the postmasters, if I haven't got that
across to you now, I have clearly failed. But you heard
it from the Postmaster NEDs how strongly I felt about
it. You're hearing a story from other people in the
Post Office and you're clearly providing more credence
141
there:
“The government body that manages taxpayers’
ownership of the Post Office told its Chief Executive to
write to the Lord Chancellor stating the reasons so few
subpostmasters had come forward to have their
convictions overturned was because they were ‘guilty as
charged.”
I don't think we've heard in your evidence today
that the origins for that letter from Mr Read lay with
UKGI or the Department for Business. Can you assist us
with that bullet point?
Yes, because, of course, this letter was so unusual to
come from the Post -- particularly after the discussion
Nick and I would have, which is we're getting progress
for the exoneration but I think the Post Office -- I was
keen for the Post Office to pursue the point on
exoneration and maybe have some publicity on it. But
Nick was more in the ‘guilty as charged’ mode. So
I thought we'd agreed to keep it quiet, to not take
a side either way. As I'd said in a note, that actually
this was a terribly difficult decision for the
Government to take and I was not saying anything
I thought was helpful.
So I said, "Having had all of that conversation, why
on earth did you issue this note when you know that was
143
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
to that. I think you should give some credence to what
the Postmaster NEDs are saying.
Q._ I rudely interrupted you before. There was something
that you wanted to say to the Chair?
A. I've totally forgotten, Sir Wyn. I was distracted.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, what was happening, Mr Staunton,
was, in effect, I was pressing you to say whether or not
what you are reported as saying by the journalist was
accurate, and I think, essentially, you've answered that
question in your answers to Mr Blake. But if there is
anything you wish to add, then please do so.
A. Well, I think you made a really good point, which of
course I kind of assumed that I would see his draft
before it was published, to make finer corrections.
But, as you say, you lose control over it, and I was
never given any opportunity to look at this in detail.
I think I would have ~ I might have used the words
inter alia or I would have --in the first comment, I'd
have put compensation, Horizon and operational costs
because all of those were to be dealt with, and held
back on.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: All right. Thank you.
MRBLAKE: While we're still on this article, if we could
tum back to page 3, please, there is a second bullet
point that I just wanted to ask you about. It says
142
not my view when we agreed to keep it quiet and surely
you should have involved the Board?"
And he said ~ I know it's been denied by him and by
UKGI he said, "I was asked by UKGI to do it", and
that made sense to me because we'd agreed we wouldn't
say anything, so why did he suddenly, a day later, write
that letter? So .
Q._ Can we please turn to page 9, one final —
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Sorry, again, I want to be precise about
these things. The suggestion at the time —
Sorry. No, forget it. I was confusing two
documents. Never mind. Carry on Mr Blake.
MR BLAKE: Page 9, please, underneath the photograph, you've
referred in this interview to the term "untouchables",
it says there:
“A source close to the Post Office said it was not
true that they continued to employ 40 investigators
involved in the Horizon scandal and that it did not
recognise the ‘untouchables’ tag.”
Now, without going into matters of Parliamentary
privilege, matters that were discussed in front of
Parliamentary Committees, what is your view of what is
said by the source close to the Post Office?
A. Well, I think you've heard that Nick said he didn't
recognise the word “untouchable”. I think you've heard
144
(36) Pages 141 - 144
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
from the Postmaster Directors, one of them said to Nick
“It's your words"; Amanda Burton said “t's your words";
‘Andrew Darfoor has confirmed to me that they were Nick's
words. So the fact that he did not recognise the
untouchables tag seems strange.
I've already used the word "circus" in a question
earlier. January/February of this year, it seems the
circus is continuing. Would you agree with that?
Yes, to a certain extent. I think the untouchable thing
is a really odd one because, actually, I think, as
I say, itis a really serious point with regard to when
we do path clearing. This is ~ I think we need to
recognise what we have here in terms of the
untouchables, it’s not some sort of academic exercise;
this is really fundamental to what happens next time
round to avoid another crisis for postmasters. That's
why I feel the untouchables thing is important, not so
much the word or who said what to whom,
Is there anything that you would like to say to
subpostmasters in relation to these events, as we've
seen them play out in January and February of this year?
Absolutely. I think it is ~ for a start, I think it's
absolutely appalling what's happened to them but, in
fact, the Post Office makes all these fine words up but,
actually, deeds count far more than words, and we have
145
"... fair to say, at a certain point in time have to
take the gloves off and try to manage the info. I think
the Select Committee were weak with him, apart from
Antony Higginbotham. Sorry it was so messy. Keen to
support in any way we can, to make sure we get past
this. Hope he's discredited. Anything else you think
we need to do to make it easier?"
From what you understand, is that a conversation
about you?
I assume so, to discredit me, certainly. It's circling
of the wagons and anyone that's supporting the
postmasters, as the Postmaster Directors themselves have
found, as I warned them would happen, that's what
happens.
Then
*[Mr Read]: Look to Lora on this.
[Loma Gratton from UKGI says}: Need as much.
support as you can get from Ben Tidswell to try and get
the Board functioning properly. We need to try and find
a way through the Project Pineapple memo.
“[Mr Read says}: We'll have a Board meeting tomorrow
and we'll see where we can get to. [Postmaster
Non-Executive Directors] may use tomorrow as
[an opportunity] to criticise on funding and
147
3
PeOPro
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 A
24 a
25 A
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
a tragic situation here, and I've given those examples
where, you know, words are used that show clearly no
sympathy at all for subpostmasters who are subject to
litigation, and I would say to them, "Hang in there”
because we've got to accelerate this process. I wrote
to the Select Committee and I said, "This process must
be taken out of the hands of the postmasters, we should
give a six-month deadline" —
Post Office, I think you mean?
Sorry?
Taken out of the hands of the Post Office?
I'm sorry, taken out of the hands of the Post Office -—-
“and we must get this thing sorted in the next six
months". And I know that every six months elapses and
somebody says, "Let's do it in the next six months’,
which is exactly what Alan Bates has done, but the fact
is, I would say, don't be discouraged, it must be coming
to the end, there is a lot of pressure being put on,
have faith.
One final document that I would like to take you to is
BEIS0000753. It's a note after your time at the Post
Office. It's, I think, from Minister Hollinrake’s
private office and there's a discussion there with
Mr Read and others, and I'm just going to read to you
a section of it, "Kevin", that's Minister Hollinrake,
146
anti-postmaster sentiment. Need to avoid tomorrow
morning being a proper road crash.
"[Kathryn Sheratt, the interim CFO says]: Had a bit
of a flavour of it on Monday, they think it did not do
enough for postmasters. Elliot mentions where the
investment for the future of the business and postmaster
rem is front and centre, costs are rising, and this has
been a theme of theirs for quite a while.
[Nick says]: This goes back to whether the
postmaster directors are playing a role of a director,
or of a trade union rep. I don't know where that is
going to go. They're extremely exposed as a result of
Project Pineapple. Not sure how to patch this up. In
a slight stand off.
"[Lorna Gratton says}: They are not in a good place
and aren't operating in a way appropriate for the
business.
"[Mr Read says]: How can they ensure their own
self-interest doesn't cut across their role in support
[the Post Office] as a business.”
What are your views as to the discussion that's
taking place here?
I think it's absolutely appalling
Why do you say that?
It's absolutely appalling because the Postmaster
148
(37) Pages 145 - 148
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Directors were making some -- this is a terrible issue
in terms of our culture, in terms of how postmasters,
the regard in which they're held, you know, guilty as
charged, I won't repeat it all. And they have cried
foul, and then for the word to be used twice that they
are now exposed, as if they're some sort of shooting
gallery, that's just not the way they should be treated.
They've taken a huge risk. I told them it was
a huge risk, I said, "You will lose your businesses if
you're not careful”, and they were still extremely brave
to proceed with this route, and they should be
congratulated and to be spoken of in these terms, as
I say, is appalling
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
Sir, those are all the questions that I have. We do
have a small number of questions from Core Participants,
mindful, of course, that we have Mr Cameron on this
afternoon as well.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Fine. Well, let those questions be put.
MR BLAKE: Mr Jacobs.
Questioned by MR JACOBS
MR JACOBS: Thank you, Mr Staunton. I have some questions
for you. I represent a large number of subpostmasters.
At 11.45 this morning you referred to the importance
of greater commercial success at the Post Office and, in
149
base and I thought we could take 100 million out of the
cost base and we could do much more in terms of income,
in terms of banking framework too, and we could have
an extra 150 million of income. We would have
a thriving business here which would be much more money
for postmasters, which is absolutely fair because they
don't get nowhere near the right rate for the job.
So, actually, I think, on the one hand, it needs to
be as profitable as possible. Equally, there are a host
of post offices which are not profitable, whichever
way -- and perform a public service and, for that,
I think you need to get a grant from the Government,
a bigger one than it's got now because this grant
doesn't really do it for the post masters but, if you've
got a decent grant for those postmasters who are in
areas where they're just performing a public service,
get the Post Office with a much better cost structure,
we would have a business which would be better for all
postmasters, including the small ones who are benefiting
from a grant.
Q._ The Post Office has been propped up by the Government in
the past. We know that in 2010 that there was
a £1.3 billion investment as part of the Network
Transformation Scheme. We know that part of this
propping up is to keep post offices going in rural
151
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
prop
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
your witness statement, you say that your initial
assessment was that Post Office needed to refocus its
activities in order to put its operations on
a commercially viable footing. Then, on the other hand,
you say at paragraph 7 of your statement that the Post
Office is a vital public institution and you took the
position because you were doing a public service in
giving something back to the community. Then at 2.30
this afternoon, just now, you agreed with Mr Blake that
the Post Office isn't like WHSmith, it's a very
different type of company owned by the shareholder, the
Government.
So with those statements in mind, my question is:
should the Post Office really be a business in the
strict commercial sense?
That's a very good question. I think we should be
‘commercial. I think we should reduce the costs because
I think that gives us more profitability to pass down to
postmasters, so I think it's in post masters’ interests
for us to be a commercial success and, if I may, Ill
just draw attention to that memo that we've just seen,
where the Minister said, even after Horizon — certainly
after Horizon, this business is bust.
He's wrong. This business if we take -- I do this
all the time in my business career: I looked at the cost
150
communities where perhaps businesses might not be
viable.
Absolutely.
Should the Post Office need to make a profit if itis
largely a public institution entrusted to give public.
services to communities?
Well, the reason I would like to have a lower cost base,
so that it was profitable is that I think I have
a slight worry that the Government, if they thought that
they were just throwing good money after bad, they might
not support the Government. So I think it's incumbent
on the Post Office to be as efficient as possible, and
to have as much income as possible, still have a subsidy
for the other postmasters, but I think if you did that
there would be actually more income for postmasters,
which is -- which they're crying out for because it's
not a profitable business.
Exactly, and on the subject of income for
subpostmasters, we've been told by many of our clients,
that large numbers —
Oh, I'm so sorry.
Ido the same sometimes!
Sorry.
That large numbers of subpostmasters received
remuneration that's below the minimum wage --
152
(38) Pages 149 - 152
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
No question.
-- and that very many of them -- and these are people
that are at the heart of the business -- are struggling
today to make ends meet and you accept that's the
position?
I go to postmaster conferences. These people are
working 70/80 hours a week and when you see the
profitability of their businesses, it's outrageous. So
we -- that's why I'm anxious to have a successful,
thriving postmaster providing more income for
postmasters because it's absolutely necessary.
There's a disconnect, isn't there, between the drive to
profit and the pay of senior executives and the reality
of how some subpostmasters are remunerated —
No question. No question. I think I said that when
I was talking about remuneration levels for executives.
Was that something that was at the forefront of the
thinking during your time as chairman?
Absolutely. I mean, I spent a lot of time with the
postmasters and I could see how hard they worked
I mean, they were reconciling these balances into the
night. I mean it’s every night, I mean, you ~ I was
going to say you wouldn't believe it. Clearly, you do
because you represent so many and you talk to them.
I don't need to tell you
153
did that, actually, the cost structure would come down
even more because postmasters wouldn't allow -- there
would be no bonuses, there would be no long-term
schemes, no short-term schemes. They just turn up for
work and get a salary and they would expect the
management of the Post Office to do exactly the same,
and that would make huge inroads into it, on top of the
£100 million-plus cost reduction I'm talking about.
But that isn't for tomorrow, that is for two and
three years away, but I think that would benefit them
too.
Thank you. I have one other very, very short topic and
I'm conscious of the time.
We have three of our clients here and many of them
are watching from home and we've had a number of
messages from them today while you've been giving your
evidence, and the general view is that they all note
that you were supportive of the Subpostmaster
Non-Executive Directors, and they feel that you were
badly used by the Post Office.
Thank you. I feel that too.
Who do you think is responsible for this weaponising
against you, throwing you under the bus, so to speak?
Are you able to give any names? I know you've said
earlier that you don't want to speculate.
155
ONOnrRona
ONOneRwON a
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
Q. What do you think the Post Office can do now to improve
the dire financial positions of subpostmasters?
A. Right, well, there's no getting away from it. We need
to get an investment to get a proper system like Horizon
because, at the moment, it is ~- if I were a postmaster,
I'd be terrified that they've got this system that is
unreliable and what does that do for me, particularly
when it comes to path clearing? I won't repeat my
points there. So the Government has to make
an investment to get Horizon -- the replacement of
Horizon up and running.
The second thing we need to do is reduce the costs
base of this business, increase the income, particularly
in terms of Banking Framework 4, and then you would have
a business ~ I mean, I spent two days -- I was --
I went ~ I looked at the structure, what we would have
done at Smiths; what did we do here? Every time I take
over a company that's the exercise I do.
So I'm convinced we could have a profit in this
business and more money for postmasters as well, and
that's the short term solution. But I did mention that
I -- my personal view is that we need to have this
business owned by the postmasters but it's only worth
demutualising it — mutualising it, if i's profitable,
and can stand on its own two feet. And I think, if we
154
‘A. Well, you can see how some of the cases have been
influenced by the postmasters ~ it is outrageous and
anyone can look through all of that and see what has
happened.
Q. Well, very briefly, was it within the Post Office that
this was going on against you?
A. I think it was driven, actually, a bit by the UKGI
Director influencing the UKGI, and huge pressures put on
‘one or two of the non-executives, particularly those
that voted against the internal SID. So it was the
minority but it was, it was - it just was not good
governance.
MR JACOBS: I'm going to ask if I have any more questions
for you.
I don't, thank you very much.
‘A. Thank you, and thank you for your supportive comments.
I really value that. Would you thank ~
MR BLAKE: Thank you, sir. Mr Henry has some questions.
I may have a follow-on question at the end.
Questioned by MR HENRY
MRHENRY: Mr Staunton, you were appointed, of course, in
December 2022. There was a Board meeting, which took
place on 24 January 2023, which you refer to at
paragraph 49 of your witness statement, and I don't want
these put up on the screen but, for the benefit of
156
(39) Pages 153 - 156
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
referencing, the Board minutes, partial, and supposedly
full, are POL00448620 and POLO0448713.
At that Board meeting, apparently the Senior
Independent Director, Mr Tidswell, said the following:
“if postmasters thought their conviction could be
overtumed, then they may have already come forward.”
And:
“The company had duty to ensure that people who were
guilty remained guilty.”
Now, Mr Staunton, having looked at both of the
documents that I've cited, the full minutes and the
partial minutes, I haven't been able to locate, if
postmasters thought their conviction could be
overtumed, then they may have already come forward. Do
you distinctly recall Mr Tidswell saying that?
I think — Mr Henry, I think I did mention that in this
presentation earlier, which is that it sent a chill down
my spine. I remember even now as I sit here him saying
that: that it's the duty of the Post Office to ensure
that these people who were found guilty remain guilty,
and that's the Chairman of the Remediation Committee.
So you can see what I was battling against. And that
was in January. Similar sort of comments were expressed
by the remediation right the way through my time,
through to December, when the letter went to the Lord
157
{that's November 2023] where the conviction did not
appear unsafe although further information could change
that position, however, on the evidence held, the
Company could not properly concede these appeals. This
information had been shared with the DBT Advisory
Committee and the RU team were working with the
Communications Team as to how this information might be
communicated."
So, therefore, they would have been working with
Mr Richard Taylor, correct?
Yes.
Yes. Now, there is no evidence in these notes,
Mr Staunton, of any trenchant challenge by you, no
confrontation by you, "This is wrong, we shouldn't be
doing this, we're defending the indefensible”. Do you
accept that this was a missed opportunity for you to
leave your mark and, you know, impress your views very,
very clearly in that meeting?
Well, I would say -- I would say that the position
was -- I quoted the position in January, where it was
550 cases, and Simon Recaldin said only 12 per cent
might be appealable. So I just didn't accept that and
I said that, and I did say to Simon afterwards, this, if
it goes back to this culture —
No, Mr Staunton, I'm trying to explore with you. There
159
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
Chancellor. So I couldn't agree with you more. I was
chilled by it.
Now, there's nothing in those minutes, Mr Staunton —-
and I think you've already dealt with this, but I just
want to develop it with you -- nothing in those minutes
that suggests that you confronted it. Did you address
him, as it were, collegially afterwards?
Idid. I just said, "I cannot feel you feel that’. The
truth of the matter is that Ben Tidswell felt that right
the way through. It's a view and I think ~ I hate to
say it in this room ~ but it seemed to be more a view
held by the lawyers on the Board than others.
In fact, you addressed that in your statement: that the
view was, as it were, egged on by the lawyers?
Yes.
But I want to come now to 28 November, so it's 11 months
into your tenure, and could this please be put up on to
the screen. It's in our Rule 10, so it's should be.
POL00448614. Could we go, please, to page 12 of 21
I want to concentrate on paragraph 8.4, "Disclosure of
Potential Future Appellant(s)". "SR", that's
Mr Recaldin, is it?
Yes.
“SR spoke to the PFA exercise and what had been
achieved. SR outlined the identification of 333 cases
158
is no doubt at all that you were supportive but what I'm
tying to suggest to you is that you did not clearly
message your concerns, they were not clearly documented
and so, therefore, you did not confront the culture that
confronted you, a culture of denial and they must be
guilty. You didn't do it effectively. That's what I'm
asking you.
There is a — there was a culture of denial. As I've
said to you, my style is to say to people outside the
Board meeting that ~ if you keep challenging people in
the Board meetings you end up with -- you can end up in
a bit of a mess. I did actually did consult — did
contest this, the comments about Ben Tidswell, you
referred to earlier, with him, and I also contested the
333, as well as the 550 with Simon because, clearly,
this is based on the Horizon system, which is completely
inappropriate.
So the answer is I did confront Simon outside the
Board and said, "This doesn't make any sense, Simon, to
me". You must remember we have a Remediation Committee
that goes through it in detail, which is chaired by Ben
Tidswell, so there's an element of process about it, and
as the Chairman, all you can do is say, "Guys, that
surely doesn't make any sense, can't we look at it
another way?", or whatever.
160
(40) Pages 157 - 160
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
So the answer is I did challenge ~ I did challenge
them both, and you can hear from the Postmaster NEDs how
much I challenged on behalf of particularly those people
that were convicted, which are the numbers we talk about
here, but also the whole ~ the thousands of postmasters
that lost so much, even if they weren't convicted.
No one did more to try and change things within the
Post Office than I did, and that would be confirmed by
the two Postmaster NEDs
Q._ But, Mr Staunton, you accept, don't you, that you had
a specific role in determining whether the
communications as Chairman were effective and supported
the achievement of the organisation's objectives, and
one of the most important objectives was the proper,
full and fair compensation and exoneration of the
postmasters; you must accept that?
‘A. Yeah, and no one was more acutely aware, particularly of
exoneration. As I say, you saw -- you heard my horror
at the exoneration comments made previously by
Mr Tidswell throughout 2003 (sic), and no one could have
been more questioning of him than I was.
Q._ But it's unfortunate, isn't it, that - we don't need to
go to it but, obviously, there was the CEO, Mr Read, on
9 January, sending that unfortunate letter, together
with the Peters & Peters advice, and there was Mr Taylor
161
a little more than two weeks after Mr Read sent that
letter to the Justice Secretary. In its judgment, the
Court of Appeal noted the profound fear which had
prevented her from pursuing any challenge to her
conviction which had dated back 14 years, and they had
no hesitation in granting her appeal
They granted a lengthy extension of time and, even
on the morning of her appeal before it was heard, when
it was even known that the Post Office would not contest
it and her case fell squarely within the Horizon cases,
she was terrified that her appeal would nevertheless be
rejected. So that fear, that profound fear, was how she
felt after 14 years of suffering in silence.
Now, we know that you were addressed —
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So what's the question, Mr Henry?
MRHENRY: Yes, sir
We know that you have addressed why people don't
come forward and you received a very measured and
balanced briefing on the subject from no less than
Ms Gallafent King's Counsel, who said that some might
have been traumatised and afraid but, given what the
Court of Appeal held in Mrs Crane's case, how many of
your former colleagues at senior Board level or senior
Executive level, how many of your former colleagues
actually shared that view, or are they still unable to
163
ONOneRwON a
RPYNNRNRVRABaeeeaasteo
RESRRSSsATSFHRSRTS
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
suspended on 12 January, who was basically saying,
“Well, some of them downright stole it", and even
disputed the findings of Mr Justice Fraser's judgment in
the Horizon Issues trial, quote/unquote, because when he
was caught out on tape, he said, “It's never been proven
that there was a link between the computer glitch and
anybody actually losing any money".
I mean, obviously, reflecting on your efforts - and
I don't doubt you attempted to do something ~- but you
were not able to change the culture, were you, if that’s
the way your CEO was approaching things and your
Director of Communications?
Everything that Taylor said, that was widely held, not
just by Taylor, widely held within the Company. That's
absolutely right, and I don't disagree. That's why it
was such a big battle, to change the culture. It was my
top priority, as Ish and Elliot said -- Saf and Elliot
My closing issue for you is this and, obviously you
don't subscribe to it, but the idea is that "Well, if
they haven't come forward by now, they must be.
guilty” —
I don't agree with that all. I totally -—-
Yes, you disagree with it vehemently. The firm that
instructs me represented Mrs Kathleen Crane. Her appeal
came before the Court of Appeal on 25 January 2024, so
162
understand that people might not come forward because
they are terrified and scarred by their experience?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, Mr Henry, but he can't answer
for his senior colleagues who have not been his
colleagues for at least, by my reckoning, eight/nine
months.
MRHENRY: Well, could I just deal with it in this way,
then, sir:
When you were recorded speaking to the Secretary of
State, and we've heard the recording, and you actually
mentioned Mr Taylor saying that he thought that most
people were guilty as charged, et cetera, et cetera, you
said this to the Secretary of State: you didn't think
that most of the Board held that view. But how many of
the Board, at that time, when you were speaking to the
Secretary of State, held the view that the postmasters
were guilty as charged?
I think it was widely held amongst the management team
and I've said that before, so I hear what Sir Wyn has to
say, but I was around the block enough to know that; and
it was held by some on the Board but a minority
I would say that I've read the testimonies of these
postmasters who have been ~ had lost everything, had
convictions, et cetera, and the evidence is absolutely
heartrending, and it's -- if you have any sort of heart
164
(41) Pages 161 - 164
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
you feel awful for them, and I felt that.
They talk about the brutality of the Post Office's
lawyers, both internal and external. This has been dire
and it's all over the papers, whatever you read in terms
of the interviews. So I understand where you're coming
from, trust me. I think you're absolutely —
I absolutely agree with you.
MR BLAKE: Thank you, sir. Those are all of the questions.
Do you, sir, have any questions?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Just one or two, Mr Staunton.
Questioned by SIR WYN WILLIAMS
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Can be I take you back, hopefully without
putting it on the screen, to the letter which Ms Munby
sent to your predecessor, Mr Parker, some time in 2022
before your appointment. You'll remember the letter?
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Because you said that a particular
sentence, in effect, had a profound effect on you, which
was to the effect that compensation was to be fair to
the postmasters but also fair to the taxpayer.
A. And there were three comments in that regard, it had to
be fair value for taxpayers and a third one, it had to
be appropriate use of taxpayers’ money. So if it had
happened once --
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Hang on, let me ask the question. I was
165
didn't make much impression on you, since you can't
remember it.
A. I don't think it was ~ I don't think it was presented
to the Board, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Fine, all right. That's fine.
Then the third question I want to ask you is this:
you obviously saw a distinction between compensation
which was full and fair to the postmasters, and
compensation which was fair to them but which took
account of other factors, such as the public purse.
Yes?
A. Absolutely.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Presumably you did so because you
realised that compensation which took account of
factors, such as the public purse, might be less
generous than compensation which was full and fair?
A. Absolutely, sir. Absolutely
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right.
A. That's
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Can you tell me whether you know which of
those approaches was adopted by the Post Office in
making offers of compensation?
A. I think it was the taxpayers’ -- in fact, I think
Alisdair Cameron is coming on later and you'll see that
when he talks about -- he issued a note in March '23,
167
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
just putting the context.
A. Oh, 'msorry.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So with that in mind, I want to ask you
about your knowledge of various things. Firstly, did
you know that in, I think, three documents which
lissued, I quoted Government ministers as saying that
‘compensation for post masters should be full and fair?
A. I didn't know that, sir, I'm sorry.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, that's question number 1.
Question number 2 is: in the time that you were
Chair of the Board of the Post Office, were any of the
documents which I issued about compensation discussed by
the Board?
‘A. I don't think —- when it was reported back by the
Remediation Committee, I'm sorry to say I don't recall
much feedback, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: All right. Fine. Thirdly —
A. Sir, I could say the minutes of the -- I'll focus on the
remediation —
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: All right -
‘A. There may be something in the Remediation Committee,
sir. If 've got that wrong —
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: All right. We'll find out. I'm asking
about your knowledge. I'm not saying this is unkindly.
Whatever I may have said in those documents, clearly
166
where he says the same thing: that he said that the
Remediation Committee wanted to please the shareholder.
So you might be asked about -
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So in your time as Chair, so far as you
were aware, the actual approach of those who were making
offers of compensation was to make them taking account
of what was in the interests of the public purse? I'm
putting that in a general sense.
A. That would be my view, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Is that because you were party to
discussions to that effect, or is that something which
you have inferred from your general knowledge, so to.
speak?
A. Yes, it's because, before the Board meeting, I would
have a meeting with the remediation management as would
with the Horizon management and everybody else, and it
was based on those discussions that I thought it was —
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right. So far as you are aware, if you
are aware, was the approach, which you said was the one
which was taken in terms of making offers,
a continuation of what had happened before you became
Chairman or was there some change when you became
Chairman?
A. I'mafraid I couldn't say, sir, because I wasn't around
and
168
(42) Pages 165 - 168
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: That's fair enough —
A. --no one said to me "We're taking a different
approach”, sir. I can't answer it, 'm afraid.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Alright, well thank you very much.
Those are my questions.
Thank you very much, Mr Staunton, for your very
detailed witness statement and for all the time and
trouble you've taken in answering questions today. I'm
grateful to you.
‘THE WITNESS: It's a pleasure, sir.
MR BLAKE: Thank you, sir. Could we now take our
mid-afternoon break until 3.30. With a fair amount of
cooperation with all Core Participants, we will be fine
to finish Mr Cameron's evidence this afternoon as well.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Jolly good. Thank you very much.
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
(3.15 pm)
(A short break)
(3.29 pm)
MR BLAKE: Good afternoon, sir. Our second witness of today
is Mr Cameron.
ALISDAIR CHARLES JOHN CAMERON (affirmed)
Questioned by MR BLAKE
MR BLAKE: Thank you. Can you give your full name, please?
A. Alisdair Charles John Cameron,
169
A. Yes.
Q. First, I'd like to just clear up a loose end in relation
to Phase 5 and 6. Can we please look at UKGI00048147
Thank you. We'll start with the bottom email. It's
an email from Mr Foat of 30 April 2021, in respect of
the Simon Clarke Advice. It's an email to, Ken McCall
and others, and he says:
“The Simon Clarke was sought following the Second
Sight Report which contained information that Horizon
may not be ‘bug free’ and Post Office may have been
aware of this. The Second Sight Report identified two
bugs with Horizon (receipts and payments mismatch and
local suspense account) which had been highlighted to
Second Sight by Gareth Jenkins. In the advice dated
8 July 2013 he advised on the need to conduct a review
of all Post Office prosecutions (and a small number of
current cases) to identify those in which the material
ought to be disclosed. This post conviction exercise
was referred to as the Cartwright King Sift Review. On
15 July 2013, Simon Clarke provided advice to Post
Office as to 'the use of expert evidence in support of
prosecutions of allegedly criminal conduct. This advice
is referred to in the [Court of Appeal Criminal
Division] judgment as illustrating {the Post Office's}
poor investigation procedures.”
171
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
QP
QP
prop
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
Mr Cameron, you should have in front of you a witness
statement dated 8 August this year.
Yes.
Could I ask you to turn to the final substantive page.
That's at page 24.
Yes.
Can you confirm that is your signature?
Yes.
Can you confirm that that statement is true to the best
of your knowledge and belief?
Yes.
Thank you very much. That has a unique reference number
of WITN09840200, which will be published on the
Inquiry’s website shortly.
As we know, you have previously given evidence to
the Inquiry on 17 May 2024 -—-
Yes.
~ and you've given quite a great deal of evidence, so
we can take things pretty quickly this afternoon
Relevant for today's purpose is that you were the
CFO at the Post Office up until 23 June 2024; is that
correct?
Yes.
Although, as we'll see, there was a period prior to that
in which you were not attending meetings and not ~
170
In your view as at this time, were the Board
sufficiently informed of the significance of the Clarke
Advice?
I didn't think so and I think my response was to say we
could really do with, as a Board, a clear setting down
of exactly what happened, in what order, through this
period because it wasn't at all clear to me, and
obviously this would have been happening well before
joined, and so I certainly felt I didn't understand it
and I suspected the rest of the Board didn't either.
In your view, is that description, in the final couple
of sentences there sufficient or a sufficiently accurate
characterisation of the Simon Clarke Advice on the use
of expert evidence?
I'm not sure I know.
If we scroll up we can see a response to Mr Foat from
you, and you say as follows:
"Ben, it would ... be helpful to do a high level and
simple timeline of the Second Sight activity, the
different reviews like SC ..."
So that's Simon Clarke is it?
Yeah
*... Brian Altman's review, disclosure exercises,
Deloitte H reviews so we can see how it pins together.
2013 does seem to be the pivotal year when [the Post
172
(43) Pages 169 - 172
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Office] doubled down."
Yeah.
Can you assist us with what you meant there by “doubled
down"?
So my sense of it -- and again, well before I joined —
was that — and this may not be right, but my sense at
the time was that the Post Office Board, as it became
independent, seemed to be engaging sort of more openly
it what became the claimant population, and there seemed
to be some dialogue between Lord Arbuthnot and, you
know, Post Office, and then that seemed to stop
relatively suddenly.
‘And what I meant by doubling down is Post Office
retreated into "Well, we'll do the Mediation Scheme, but
..." you know, and to become much more defensive again,
and that is what I meant, and that seemed to be around
2013.
Thank you.
Moving now to a different topic, and that is your
email that we've seen already today and previously
entitled "The robustness of our governance"?
Yeah.
The email you sent on 23 March 2023. Can we bring that
up on to screen. That's POLO0423699. Can I also ask if
you could give your answer perhaps slightly louder or
173
and I didn't think we did, and I didn't think that we
understood what the performance of operations was.
I don't think it was coming up to the Group Executive
and, within the scorecard, they may well have been
measuring some very sensible things but they weren't
measuring the things that I thought were critically
important, one of which is the shortfalls, the losses.
One of which was investigations, where they had really
lost all the data on what was happening and weren't
completing very many investigations, and there were —
a couple of my obsessions through these years was that
in getting to clarity on branch situations, there were
two things that weren't operating effectively, and we
just weren't getting done: one is stamp accounting.
So unlike the cash, where everything was remmed in
and remmed out of the branches on barcodes and, you
know, was checked at either end, the stamps hadn't been
invested in like that, and there hadn't been the
procedures in place to make sure that end-to-end stamp
numbers were right and people were putting them in
manually. That's what postmasters had to do.
‘And, absolutely, we have to get that process
automated and it was supposed to be part of the Horizon
replacement and then that wasn't happening, and so that
was one.
175
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
come slightly closer to the microphone, please ~
Okay.
— or maybe both. Thank you
If we could look at the bottom of page 2 into
page 3, you've addressed this email in your latest
witness statement at paragraph 22, and there are just
a couple of matters that have been identified today as
potential significant issues that I'd just like to ask
you about. If we scroll down, the first is the ClJ
scorecard and your views on that. Are you able to
expand on your views as set out there, regarding the
‘Common Issues judgment scorecard?
So one of the roles that GE should have been playing and
my contention is that it wasn't playing, was to provide
oversight of what was happening through the business as
the senior executive group, and there was some reporting
developing, so there was a scorecard, and I can't
remember how much of that was Operations or how much of
that was Legal who put that together at this stage, but
it was about whether we had done the things that we were
required to do in the Common Issues judgment and whether
they were being maintained and monitored.
And the fact is, we never discussed it, and I don't
think -- the trouble with scorecards is you really do
need to understand what the underlying data is doing,
174
And the other was: you couldn't put -- shouldn't put
retail sales through a post office till. They weren't
retail products and people, rather than moving between
tills, postmasters were using something called the
retail button, or the stamps button, I can't remember,
but they were putting it through, and then reconciling
it later, sort of changing it later, which created
confusion and noise. And I'm just saying, look, these
are important parts of whether the operations are
working and they're not even on the scorecard.
We heard evidence this morning about a point in time at
which a decision was apparently taken to prioritise the
new Horizon system or the NBIT system over and above
addressing issues to do with the Common Issues judgment
or Horizon Issues judgment; is that something you're
aware of at all?
I think - I mean, yes. So, at some point, if you've
got expensive time-consuming, difficult IT changes to
do, and Horizon is incredibly expensive and difficult to
change because it's so old and we don't manage it, then
you have to decide, are we fixing Horizon, and then
flowing that into NBIT, or are we just creating this
capability in NBIT?
So those were choices that were happening
progressively but, of course, the NBIT timetable kept,
176
(44) Pages 173 - 176
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
>
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
and has kept, going backwards and, therefore, you might
have made a different decision.
We see below there, there's a section number 4 on NBIT.
Yeah.
You raise concerns there about the governance of NBIT
Briefly, what were your concerns here?
So the sort of steering group governing NBIT wasn't
working particularly well and the project wasn't getting
the input from operations, thinking about how you roll
NBIT out, that it needed. And the team had asked if
I would chair the steering group, and Nick thought that
was a bad idea, and then a year later -- so I think
we're probably autumn '22 now -- had asked me to do
that. And my view by the January was that it really
needed fairly fundamental reworking, and said that, and
Nick asked me to stand it down because he had other
ideas.
‘And so what he then set about creating was
a completely different operating model with Katie
Secretan leading it from Martin Roberts’ team, and that
took some time to set up. So, between me being asked to
sort of stop and the new arrangements coming in, was
a space of several months, which this was in the middle
of, and I thought, "Well, there is just no formal
governance now over the NBIT programme for this period”.
177
post-GLO implementation plan. If we scroll down,
please, over the page, I'm just going to read to you
a paragraph there. It says:
"We needed to reach a better position on the Branch
Trading Statement where we had been heavily criticised
by the Judge. If the Branch Trading Statement could not
be replaced it needed to be supplemented by other
information that made it fit for purpose
Communications to postmasters on the status of the
Branch Trading Statement contractually would be needed.
It was noted that there had been a significant amount of
communications about this. We were considering whether
we could move the Branch Trading Statement off Horizon
but migrating to another IT system could take a number
of years. However, we were also looking at all the
different parts of the accounting system and what our
options were. If we had a running account with
a Postmaster we would settle that account for
remuneration and that would be transparent. We did not
know yet if we could separate accounting from the
Horizon system and place it elsewhere.”
Were there meaningful attempts to try to improve the
Branch Trading Statement while you were in post?
There was a lot of work going on in 2020 and, specific
to the Branch Trading Statement, I cannot remember how
179
4
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
cs
12
13
14
15
16
7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
Q._ The Post Office doesn't yet have a new system in place
that’s been rolled out to subpostmasters. At
paragraph 58 of your witness statement, you say that
Fujitsu's relationship with the Board has never been
satisfactory and you suspect that both parties would
like to end that relationship.
Yeah.
Was there discussion at Board level about ending the
relationship with Fujitsu?
No, because it was very hard -- although it was
discussed over the years, it was very hard to really
conceive that anyone other than Fujitsu could manage
Horizon, and so you would only end the relationship with
Fujitsu when you were really confident that NBIT was
going to go in on a certain date, and you were expecting
it to work. And that date has never ~ or certainly
wasn't visible when I stopped working.
Can we tum to POL00448793. This is back in time now to
8 April 2020, and there was a Board meeting on that date
where there's a potential alternative or addition that's
being discussed. So this is a Board meeting at which
you were, at that time, Group Chief Finance Officer. If
we could turn to page 9 and have a look at the middle of
that page. If we stop there, we can see there's
discussion of the Group Litigation Order, and then the
178
far we got or what changes were made by the team. So
I'm afraid I'm unable to answer your question. But
I think we obviously had done work on back office
systems and so I think the question we're trying to get
at was, within the SAP CFS accounting system, was there
enough information coming through from Horizon and
elsewhere that we could have tried to create a Branch
Trading Statement, put it on Branch Hub, so it was
available electronically, and I don't think that ever
happened. So my recollection, it was probably too
difficult.
Can we please turn to POL00021583, on a similar subject,
looking at the Board minutes on 26 May 2020. Thank you.
So these are the Board minutes of 26 May. If we
could please turn to page 4, about halfway down, under
the topic of Telecoms, the second bullet point, it says
there, if we scroll down, please:
"Carla Stent noted that the Fujitsu relationship had
been raised at the [Audit and Risk Committee] on 19 May
2020 and that Jeff Smyth, CIO, would be preparing
a paper for the Board on this issue. The Fujitsu CEO
had recently indicated that they would like to explore
a structured early exit agreement. A principles
document was being drawn up ...”
Are you aware of any progress insofar as that was
180
(45) Pages 177 - 180
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
concerned?
So I don't particularly remember this conversation but
I assume they are talking about the Fujitsu relationship
around the telecoms business, rather than Horizon, which
obviously we went on to sell the business relatively
soon after, and so I think it was that they were talking
about.
Thank you. Moving on to a different topic and that is
UKGI. You had raised, in a number of places, I think,
in that email, the governance email that we've already
tumed to, concems relating to UKGI's role as
a Non-Executive Director, I think you've said performing
a quasi-executive role. Can you assist us with your
view on that, please?
So I think the UKGI relationship and their role across
the Government to Post Office has never worked properly,
as far as I can tell, and certainly didn't in my time
And I think it just — so the first problem is it just,
complicates the flow of information because you've got
to discuss everything with UKGI, and then it goes to
brief DBT and sometimes they brief and sometimes we
brief and we don't necessarily know what the flow of
information is. So I think that doesn't work.
But I felt, you know, strongly that it's an odd and
equivocal role being shareholder representative, because
181
order for Treasury to confirm that they were willing to
fund the compensation.
And so all of these decisions were, you know,
negotiated between DBT and the Treasury and, often, Post
Office wasn't in the room for that at all. And so you
got — I mean, there was a very odd funding round
I think it was towards the end of 2021 when Post Office
was asking for £400 million over three years, and then
we were told we would get 200 million, and our view was,
well, we couldn't, therefore, maintain 11,500 branches
and we couldn't afford to replace Horizon, and DBT were
just completely astonished. And they just hadn't, you
know, through UKGI, or whatever, they had not understood
the financial position, and found another 100 million,
you know, but we hadn't asked for enough and it wasn't
enough:
But they clearly didn't understand all the papers
that were being written, and, you know -- so there was
a final discussion between DBT and Treasury without any
of them really understanding Post Office.
Moving on to the NFSP. I think you've said that you
don't agree with the idea of an oversight committee.
No.
Can you briefly expand on that?
Post Office needs to be owned by postmasters. I mean,
183
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
>
2
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
the authority for that role comes from being the
representative of the shareholder of the Secretary of
State. But, often, it seemed to me that the issues that
were of concern to UKGI were their personal opinions on
things. So they wielded the authority of being
a representative of the shareholder to pursue things
that were of interest to them, but which the
shareholding wasn't particularly engaged with, and
I thought that was consistently unhelpful.
Did that remain the case throughout your time?
Yes.
You've said at paragraph 62 of your statement that many
decisions were made by or were significantly affected by
the Treasury?
Yeah.
Can you assist us with that, please?
So I think anything which requires money being spent
requires Treasury approval, unless it's so small that
DBT can do it themselves, and so all the major funding
decisions, all the major compensation decisions, are
done, I think, through a negotiation between DBT and the
Treasury. And the Treasury often sets conditions.
So there were really detailed operational agreements
that DBT had to make sure Post Office operated around
HSS, around the overtumed convictions compensation, in
182
there is a fundamental conflict of interest between Post
Office Limited and postmasters, and it plays out really
simply and financially, which is: if Post Office wants
to meet a financial target, the easiest way it can do
that is not pay as much money to postmasters. And what
you have seen was -- I mean, a deliberate and, you know,
can explain it -- attempt to reduce the overall
postmaster remuneration between 2012 and 2018, which is
all disclosed, and that was done through largely Network
Transformation.
And then following that, we agreed postmaster
remuneration had to increase and we had been very
aggressive with the banks around Banking Framework 2, we
probably added 90 million to the Post Office bottom line
‘overnight, and that in able to two increases in
postmaster remuneration, so that by 2021, postmaster
remuneration had gone up, and the total amount paid,
which no one ever talks about, had actually gone up for
two years in a row. And then, since then, it's gone
down, bubbled around, and it's still ess than it was
and it's stil far less than it was in 2012, and yet
postmasters have had to bear huge inflation through
energy costs, minimum wage, and all the rest of it.
And so, you know, we had this conversation often
but, I mean, Nick was very clear about we should be
184
(46) Pages 181 - 184
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
putting postmasters first, at the beginning of 2021, and
that was a rallying cry. And by the autumn, you know,
I said to him that I was uncomfortable using that phrase
because, if you looked at the way we were divvying the
money up, we put hitting our financial targets first and
postmaster remuneration second, and he said that he
hadn't been using that phrase for some months at that
time.
Were you aware during your time of whether compensation
or redress was being sufficiently addressed at Board
level; do you have any views on that?
I think the Board spend an awful lot of time on the sort
of legal mechanics of it all and the processes around
that, and they certainly did review it. I think once
you accepted that the Court of Appeal had set a process
and our job was to legally follow it on overturned
convictions, and that we were complying with the
operational agreements that the Treasury and DBT had set
for both OHC and HSS, then there was relatively little
influence we could have, other than, you know, pushing
‘Simon Recaldin to do the delivery of it as fast as
possible, and he accelerated it.
But I didn't think we were really making the
decisions.
Ithas been suggested earlier today that one of the
185
should have threatened to leave. I mean, it would have
been outrageous.
In light of that, do you have a view as to whether it
was or was not likely that pressure was put on him?
I've always -- so I'm sure there was lots of pressure on
him to all sorts of things. I've never understood why
they would be pushing him on compensation payments.
Nick told me at one point that what the Treasury had
said, I think, but I am repeating conversations, is
that, if Post Office was going to get more money, which
we were clearly going to need, that they wanted
a strategic review of Government's requirements of the
network. And so Nick and others were pushing very hard
for that review to be done because it should unlock the
door for more funding.
‘And what Nick told me, so I guess it would have been
late 2022, was that the then Secretary of State had
said, no, they weren't going to kick this off and could
Post Office sort of the limp through to the next general
election as best it could?
Now, obviously when Nick gives testimony he can say
whether that's what his recollection is but that's my
recollection, and so I assume there's been a muddling
between not doing the strategic review, not getting more
funding, although in, fact some, I think has been
187
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
considerations was the taxpayer, rather than simply
whether it was full and fair compensation; do you have
a view on that?
So the Treasury set aside funding for HSS, for OHC and
other schemes later. Now, that process was slow and
painful. But if you take overturned historical
convictions, they set aside a very significant amount of
funding with a time limit to use that funding and, from
memory, it's over 700 million. And the Court of Appeal
set the process, and the reason why our estimates at
that spending actually reduced over time was because we
just thought more people would come forward and they
didn't. But I've never understood, you know, and I do
say this in my statement, why Henry thought why anyone
would have asked him to slow down the compensation.
{can absolutely understand the Government saying,
“Look, you've got to cut investment spend in the
business, you've got to manage the cashflow’, but the
money for the compensation was there. It was set aside.
If we followed the process and the compensation was
paid, we would recover it from the Treasury and the
Treasury had already set it aside, and so there was no
advantage to anyone in slowing down compensation. And
to be honest, if, you know, Henry really thought he was
being asked to slow down compensation, you know, he
186
provided, and the actual compensation itself.
Thank you.
My final topic is departures. Departures in general
first. I think you've highlighted issues with Chief
People Officer and that there were a number of
departures. Can you think of any reason why that
particular role is one that's subject to such a churn in
who fulfils the role?
I'm not sure I can. I think all the individual
circumstances were different. But, I mean, if you look
at the churn of Post Office executives since
independence, I mean, Paula replaced her entire team at
least once and, you know, I replaced one member of that,
team very quickly and was working on another, and, you
know, Nick obviously replaced, you know, a relatively
new CIO and Retail Director, within a few months. And,
you know, it does seem to have been a theme overall, not
just Chief People Officer.
In terms of your own departure, 7 May 2023 was your last
working day, I believe; is that correct?
Yes.
You formally ended your time at the Post Office on
23 June 2024 and you've addressed that, I think, at
paragraph 72 of your witness statement. In summary, can
you assist us with what happened between you and Mr Read
188
(47) Pages 185 - 188
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
at that point in time?
So, in summary, Nick told me in 2021 that I was leaving
the business, he didn't give a reason, and I thought it
was the Chief Executive's right to choose their team but
I thought I ought to be compensated because he wasn't —
he was absolutely clear he wasn't firing me, he wasn't
making me redundant, and so I thought it was reasonable
and he thought it was reasonable that he settled the
contract. And I suspect he can tell you that he had
some encouragement from DBT that they would support that
position, which is why he had talked to me, and then
they changed their mind, or made up their mind, and
refused to do so.
So in May of that year he asked me to stay on and
I agreed, and we agreed a modus operandi. Now, I don't
know what happened after that. I think I read somewhere
that Jane Davies was saying that getting rid of me was
an objective for her and her predecessor but I don't
know if that is true or not
I was finding it increasingly stressful for two
reasons: one was to work in an atmosphere where I didn't
feel welcomed or, you know, able to fulfil my full role;
and the other was, through 2022, we seemed to have given
up trying to run the business and it was just
deteriorating on a whole range of fronts, a lot of which
189
that we had taken since 2019, and they weren't prepared
to do that.
Who is "they"?
The Historical Remediation Committee, Ben Tidswell and
Tom Cooper, at the time. And I thought that was just
wrong. So things like that, I was finding incredibly
stressful, as I did, you know — we did, genuinely,
I think, the business -- I'm not talking about what had
happened with postmasters, but the commercial business,
I think, did get a lot stronger between 2015 and 2020,
and it was just deteriorating visibly in front of us.
And I got very upset by the shortfall investigations.
because what we were seeing was the -- after two months,
if we thought a postmaster owed us money and the
postmaster didn't pay it then we wrote that off to the
P&L, and so you could see the scale of that very quickly
through the P&L, and it had been, I think 2 million
a year when I joined, it went up to 5 million a year,
and suddenly it was 12 million a year. It was
£1 million a month.
And through 2022, I was saying, "Look, we've got to
understand this". So by 2020 we had a lot of data on
this stuff, we were helping people avoid problems, what
has happened? And I was being told, "Oh, all of these
after being investigated”, and eventually had to put —
191
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
I talk about in there, and I was very stressed by what
I call the pause payments issue, and if I could just
touch on that for a moment.
So Post Office used to recover money from
postmasters through deductions from their remuneration
over an agreed term, which might go on for years, and
what Lord Justice Fraser said in the Common Issues
judgment, I think, was that Post Office couldn't take
money off postmasters unless a proper investigation had
been done.
And the legal advice, therefore, was we should —
there were existing sort of deduction arrangements still
going on from before 2019, and the Legal Department said
it should stop, and the HRC refused to stop it, and it
was still going on in 2022. So I made a, you know, had
a sort of a bit of a tantrum about this at the Board in
December 2022, and it was agreed to stop —
What was your concern about it?
Well, I thought it was both wrong and illegal. So we
were recovering money from postmasters where we hadn't
done an investigation. So it seemed to me that was
a clear breach of the Common Issues judgment and it was
indefensible. And so they stopped the existing ones,
which were almost at an end anyway, but I had just
assumed we would then do a process to return the money
190
I couldn't get sensible data out of it so I had to put
an EY team in there to get sensible data out of it. And
it was perfectly clear that they were hardly
investigating any of them, and it just wasn't a basis to
be asking people for money at all. And that -- there
was a lot of resentment that I was asking those
questions out of the Operations Directorate. So all of
that was very stressful.
Can I just pause you there: who was responsible for that
and where was the resentment, in your view?
elt a lot of resentment from Martin Roberts, who was
telling me I ought to, you know, mind my own business.
And, you know, I did speak to Nick about it but I had to.
carry on, it was too big an issue not to. So I went on
holiday in April 2023 for two weeks, and I said to my
wife while we were away that I really wasn't sure
I could go back, it was just too difficult, and Jane.
Davies had asked me if it was making me ill and it made
me reflect on that.
My wife was very clear it was making me ill, so
I didn't come back immediately. I went to see my GP
because I didn't really know, I'm not a doctor, and it's
me, and —
You've addressed those matters in the statement, we
didn't need to go into any further detail, as far as
192
(48) Pages 189 - 192
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
that's concerned.
A. Fine.
MR BLAKE: Thank you very much. Sir, those are all of my
questions. There are a small number of questions from
Core Participants
Before we tum to Core Participants, do you, sir,
have any questions?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, I think I will wait to see what
they ask.
MR BLAKE: Thank you very much. Perhaps we could start with
Ms Watt for the NFSP.
Questioned by MS WATT
MS WATT: Good afternoon, Mr Cameron, I'm over here, thank
you.
I ask questions on behalf of the National Federation
of SubPostmasters and I've got couple of questions for
you regarding some financial changes that I understand
took place while you were the Chief Financial Officer.
I'd like to discuss the concept of Hard to Place
postmasters, and I'm going to summarise. If you bear
with me, I'm going to speak for a little bit and then
I'll ask you some questions.
So in summary, under Hard to Place since 2018, if
a postmaster wanted to leave the network but a potential
new postmaster could not be located, then the Post
193
business are having their compensation -- modest
compensation ~ for leaving the network cut, especially
considering that the network relies on their investment
and work, when at least some senior departing Post
Office officials can negotiate large settlement
packages?
A. Soa number of thoughts. I mean, fundamentally, yes,
and often there are relatively few people getting senior
remuneration. There are an awful lot of postmasters
and, therefore, the overall cost to the business gets
very disproportionate which is why it's easy to end up
in these places. I didn't get financial settlement;
I got retired on ill health, which was not my judgement,
so I think that is different and it followed the Post
Office's policies, I think, to the letter under those
circumstances. There were no special favours.
Nonetheless, your point is well made. On Hard to
Place ~- and I'm not the world's greatest expert on
it — I think this came out of the Transformation
Programme, and the rule was we couldn't pay compensation
at that point unless there was a replacement Post
Office. We couldn't pay understanding the rules of the
Network Transformation Programme to shut a Post Office,
and I think that was the rule that it originated with.
It's then being debated, at least once a year, and
195
ONOnrRona
10
12
13
14
15
16
7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
Office places them on a Hard to Place register and, if
a potential new postmaster is found, the exiting
postmaster will get a leaver's payment.
Post Office originally offered 26 months’
‘compensation to the Hard to Place postmasters, but this
has been reduced unilaterally by the Post Office to
12 months, which is an average loss of around £43,000
for a postmaster. It's a significant decrease in the
return the subpostmaster will get from their investment
in the business, and they will have all the costs
associated with closing down their business and adds to
the significant difficulties with remuneration that
postmasters have been facing.
Now, turning to Nick Read telling you that you would
be leaving the Post Office, you say at paragraph 70 of
your witness statement
“In my experience it's not unusual in the commercial
world for CEOs to want to recruit their own teams.
Indeed, even within POL, many executive colleagues had
previously received settlements to leave the business."
You go on at paragraph 80 to set out your financial
settlement, which you say is two years’ salary at
£245,000, so just under £500,000.
Would you agree that it is not fair that postmasters
who have invested their money, time and lives in their
194
the decision to reduce it was taken quite reluctantly
but we just weren't being funded in the way we had been
under Network Transformation. So it was, you know, one
of those difficult financial trades but is it unfair?
Yes, itis.
So, and just to tie off that point, notwithstanding what
you've said about your own particular circumstances. So
you would agree that there's a disparity between how the
Post Office treats its senior employees, as compared to
how it treats postmasters and, would you agree, this is
just one of many issues that reflect badly on the Post
Office of today, in the way it continues to treat those
investors in the business, the postmasters?
So I agree it's unfair, absolutely. The Post Office
does have to meet the budgets agreed with Government or
the Government has to pay us more money. So Nick
campaigned quite hard, I would guess, sort of 2022, to
increase postmaster remuneration but it required more
money from Government. We didn't have that money and
anything we could do ourselves would have been a drop in
the ocean of making a really material difference to
postmasters, and the Government said no.
So it's not that Post Office Limited is sitting on
a huge pot of gold and arbitrarily chooses, Post Office
Limited is bust. It's been bust for years. It has
196
(49) Pages 193 - 196
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
700 million of net liabilities and we've disclosed this
in excruciating detail for ARA after ARA. So I take
your point about the fundamental unfairness.
If you wanted another example, you know, all through
my time, Post Office employees got pay rises ~ I mean,
I didn't, but Post Office employees got pay rises to 2.5
per cent most years; postmasters didn't, their
remuneration fell. So yes, it is absolutely an unfair
structure.
MS WATT: Thank you.
MR BLAKE: Mr Henry?
Questioned by MR HENRY
MR HENRY: Mr Cameron, you wrote a document that nobody will
forget, the "What Went Wrong" document, and you wrote
that in 2020. But I want to just explore with you
another document that you wrote back in 2018, and it was
entitled "Sparrow Narrative"; do you remember it?
A. I've read it in my papers for this.
Q._Now, the former document was premised on the basis, We
did not sufficiently challenge and test our legal advice
until it was too late". Do you accept that in the
“Sparrow Narrative" document, there is nothing in the
mindset of senior management in 2018 about testing the
legal advice?
A. Absolutely, and I think that was precisely the sort of
197
page number.
A. Itwould be towards the bottom because I think it
started with me.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So we're looking for something from
Mr Cameron, is that it?
MRHENRY: Yes, sir, I'm so sorry, it's ~ if we could go up
to the next page.
A. No, down.
MR HENRY: Further down, please.
A. Yes, it's the section in italics.
Q. Yes, exactly. I'm very grateful. I'm sorry for not
giving you the precise reference, Mr Cameron, and you,
sir.
So:
“After its independence in 2012, the new leadership
team of [the Post Office], who were not accountable for
how the business had been run in the period under
debate, sought to ensure a full, open and fair
resolution of these issues, including a mediation
scheme, investigations and an independent review by
a third party.”
Does that reflect the mindset that the Senior
Management Team, maybe even the Board, felt that the
Post Office was not accountable for how the
subpostmasters had been treated or prosecuted under the
199
23
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
basis of my apology when I was last here, which was to
say, up until 2019/2020, I simply hadn't challenged
enough the very clear sort of statements of the Post
Office leadership, and I'm sorry for that.
Q._Now, just concentrating, however, on the "Sparrow
Narrative”. I want to ask you about this passage, and
if it needs to be put up on the screen it is
POL00253410. While it is being put up on the screen,
you're familiar with it, so I'm just going to read out
something you wrote verbatim:
“After its independence in 2012, the new leadership
team of [the Post Office] who were not accountable for
how the business had been run in the period under
debate, sought to ensure a full, open and fair
resolution of these issues, including a mediation
scheme, investigations and an independent review by
a third party.”
Do you remember writing that?
A. I don't remember writing that but it was absolutely the
position of the Post Office as I set out in my first
witness statement from 2015, and I accepted at the time
it clearly was wrong.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Sorry, could we have the relevant passage
on the screen, so I can follow it?
MRHENRY: Ofcourse, sir. Forgive me, I don't have the
198
previous Royal Mail Group regime?
‘A. No, I think the point I was absolutely making there —
which was also probably wrong, but my understanding at
the time — is that a new Board had been created,
largely, and there were a lot of new people who came in
and so they weren't at fault for what had happened in
the past. Were they accountable for resolving the
situation? Absolutely, but they couldn't be accountable
for what had happened before they formed.
Q._ see. So it's nota sense of resentment, "Oh, well,
we've been landed with this, and this all happened when
we were under the aegis of the Royal Mail Group"?
A. No, I don't think so.
Q_ Then, if we scroll further down, we can see the view of
the team at the time, which was what's been called the
mantra. You have put in square brackets:
[99%] have managed to conduct their business
without an issue or loss. Out of a total trading of
some £60 billion a year, with 10.5 million customer
sessions a week, we only have to correct [approximately]
100,000 transactions a year, a process that is
transparent to Postmasters and [is supported by their
National Federation].”
This, effectively, was a defence of the entire
litigation strategy, wasn't it?
200
(50) Pages 197 - 200
21
23
24
25
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
A
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
It was my understanding at the time, it was wrong but my
reason for writing this, and it is consistent with
a number of things that came out in my first witness
statement, is I consistently felt that, if we believed
this -- and everyone seemed to — we should be saying so
out loud and in public, and explaining and defending
what we were doing because my feeling was that would
help everybody. And, in fact, it would have helped
everybody if we had done that more because people could
point out where we were wrong.
And, actually, what happened -- sorry, but what,
happened was that, you know, Paula would look interested
and then Mark Davies and Jane MacLeod would shut it
down. And it happened, if you read my first witness
statement, several times like that. I thought we should
be more open; they didn't.
There's no doubt, sir - and this is my last point to
you ~- that that is precisely the advice that Jane
MacLeod gave Ms Vennells --
Yet again.
MR HENRY: -- at the beginning of the document. Thank you
very much.
MR BLAKE: Thank you, sir.
Mr Stein has a short matter.
Questioned by MR STEIN
201
settlements which might be for one year or might be for
three years, but that isn't a brilliant way to fund
a trading business where circumstances can change
radically. It's really designed to say, "Well, you'd
like to spend 10 billion on green technology, we're only
giving you £1 billion, do what you can", and it doesn't
really work.
And I think we have -- I'm not suggesting for
a moment that Post Office hasn't muddled some of this.
So we simply didn't ask for enough money for the Horizon
replacement, I mean, nowhere near enough. And the more
we got into it ~ it was very early stage, and it was.
a sort of budget for software -- the more difficult,
complex and expensive the actual rollout looks like it's
going to be.
This is a software and a hardware change; it's the
first one for 20 years; the last one went
catastrophically badly. So there is no trust in the
system, and so -- you know, I remember being part of
a software rollout in a commercial company as
an employee and, at one point, they just said, "Look, we
cannot cope with being on two systems at the same time.
So we know it's not working brilliantly, we're just,
going to push everything onto the new system and we'll
fix it later”,
203
4
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
cs
12
13
14
15
16
7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
MR STEIN: Mr Cameron, just picking up on some of the
prop
prop
questions asked by Mr Blake earlier regarding the way
that the Post Office is looked at by Government and
Government preparedness to invest in the Post Office.
You say in your statement, paragraph 84, that the
Post Office business is capable of supporting a national
network of post office branches.
Yes.
You say that Horizon must be replaced —
Yes.
~ and, if the Government wants a sustainable national
set of post offices, it will have to finance the complex
multi-year set of challenges and then arrange for
postmasters to own the network long-term.
Now, let's just go back to that. That's
paragraph 89:
“If HMG wants a sustainable national set of post
offices, it will have to finance the complex multi-year
set of challenges.”
Yes.
Right. Now, that position -- the Government need to set
out its agreement to finance the Post Office into the
future ~- has remained the same for now a number of
years; do you agree?
We get, as does the rest of Whitehall, you know, funding
202
Now, as an employee, that was fine. Itis utterly
inconceivable that you could talk like that to
postmasters because they're running their own
businesses, and Horizon was a catastrophe. So the
actual rollout, how you resolve shortfalls, all of that,
is going to be very, very difficult; and we simply
hadn't done of the work to appreciate that properly when
we first asked for money, and we just didn't ask for
enough.
So Government needs to provide long-term settled
‘commitment to funding the Post Office for the future,
not just one year ~
Yeah.
~ but for the future —
lagree.
~ including the replacement of the Horizon system.
That is obvious to you and anyone else that has paid
attention to this scandal; is that right?
No one else is going to do it. So if Government doesn't
do it, it doesn't get done.
Understanding the effect: you said in your evidence that
it isn'ta brilliant way to fund a trading business, but
the real effect on the postmasters running a small
branch office in a rural part of this country, whereby
there is no way that it would make business sense to
204
(51) Pages 201 - 204
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry 1 October 2024
open up a branch, means that those branches are left in
limbo, not knowing what the future is, not knowing
whether they have an asset within the business, not
knowing whether they can continue to operate for the
interests of the people around them or for their
families; do you agree?
Ido. What the Government has done to address that was
the network subsidy payment. So this was different from
investment funding, and it was specifically designed to
enable Post Office to keep open post offices that
weren't financially viable and which you would shut if
your only issue was commercial questions.
And that dropped to ~- I mean, it was 200 million
a year at one point -- it dropped to 50 million, which
was, in part, because we had improved commercial
performance but that is less than it costs, or certainly
when I was there it was less than it cost. And of
course, again, it only goes for a maximum of three years
into the future, and often it's two or one, or it's
uncertain, and so I agree with you.
And this is why I think the strategic work around
the network, which has been so postponed, actually does
need to be done because the Government either needs to
say, "Yes, we do want you to keep alll those uncommercial
post offices open”, in which case it has to pay for them
205
you could highlight that, please:
“Last week's major incident on Horizon was the
fourth significant service failure of the system in nine
months."
Then there's a recitation of those failures: in July
2011; December 2011; February 2012; March 2012.
Now, interestingly, in relation to this document,
there's no mention of the mismatch bug or any other
bugs. If we drop down, then, to the paragraph at 2.3,
I'l summarise this: it says there that, as part of the
move to Horizon Online, the contract was renegotiated
One of the design changes which contributed
significantly to a reduction in Post Office operating
costs, circa 5.5 million per annum to the savings, was
moving to an active/passive data centre arrangement.
Then I'll read the next bit
“Consequently the resilience is now housed in one
data centre with the second data centre primarily being
used as a test environment, but available for disaster
recovery if required.”
So setting out those issues. The proposal is set
out by Mr Young at page 3, paragraph 6.2. So under
"Proposal", 6.2. Highlight that, please:
“In recognition of the recent performance history,
the media attention this has drawn and our business
207
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
because there is no one else, or it doesn't, in which
case they'll go.
Thank you, Mr Cameron.
Just one further point. Can I take you, please, in
your statement, the second statement, you talk about
when you joined the Post Office in January ‘15:
"The Post Office's position was that there was no
evidence of any faults with Horizon or unsafe
convictions.”
I'm going to take you to one document, POL00142856.
It should come up on the screen now. Can we go to the
last page, that's page 3, please, and down to the last
couple of lines, please. Now, this is signed by Mike
Young, Chief Operating Officer, March 2012. So this
pre-dates you joining the Post Office.
Yes.
Just as a reminder, Mike Young was an individual who was
discussed by Paula Vennells as being one of the people
who she relied on to tell her, "Look, there's no problem
in the system", okay?
Okay.
So my question about this document is whether this
document was a document that was drawn to your
attention. So, briefly, we can go back to page 1,
please. Then, under the heading "Background", 2.1, if
206
transformation plans, we have proposed a fundamental
review of the service. Within this review we will draw
out whether the current technical design is correct for
our future business needs and plans. The review will
run in conjunction with the operational investigations."
6.4:
“The review will as a minimum cover:
"The technical design of Horizon
“All forms of testing
"Monitoring and alerting
"Best practice in retail and financial service
markets
"Future requirements of our business strategy that
may influence the technical environment of which Horizon
is a critical part.”
Okay? Now, I've shortened my examination in
relation to that but just to give you the flavour of
what that document was saying. So in March 2012, some
time before you joined the Post Office, this document
was sent to the Board and it was discussing,
essentially, a full-out review of the Horizon system.
Was that brought to your attention when you joined the
POL Board?
I believe, to the best of my knowledge, that this is the
first time I have seen that document and, indeed,
208
(52) Pages 205 - 208
OYE ARON A
ONAARwONH
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
I don't think I particularly knew who Mike Young was.
I don't remember ever seeing this document at any stage,
and it was nearly three years before I joined. It's
hard to be definitive; I don't have access to POL emails
and things any more, but I don't remember ever seeing
that before
Should it have been brought to your attention?
Yes, I think it would have been helpful. I mean, there
were things I certainly learnt reading it. So
I understood how we used the data centres in 2015 but
I didn't know that the history was that they had been
used differently previously. And this is one of the
reasons why, whether people like it or not, Horizon has
to go: because we were doing ~ I mean, going back four
or five years, we were doing kind of business continuity
disaster recovery tests, where we would shut down, you
know, the primary data centre having moved all the stuff
over to the secondary to proved it worked, and then move
it back a week later. And that -- there hasn't been
a full sort of disaster recovery business continuity
test of Horizon for years because no one is that,
comfortable that it will work.
And so this is a really serious challenge, and it's
one of the reasons why, you know, you either get Horizon
‘onto the Cloud, which the business has absolutely failed
209
been different right at the beginning -- was that I had
the right to attend meetings and I was sent papers, but
certainly in the later phases I was not a member; it was
the Shareholder Representative, Ben Tidswell, and one
other non-exec. There were no executives on the
Committee. It might have been different right at the
beginning and, apologies, I can't remember.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: No, that's alll right
Just so that I can be clear, then, about the extent
of your knowledge, how much did you know of what was
being discussed at that Committee?
So I would only ~ there were usually calls ~ I would
only usually attend the meeting if there was
a particular subject of interest or concern to me, but
I always looked at the papers. So I had a reasonable
idea of what was going on, which was why I was so
exercised about the paused payments issues.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right. Mr Staunton has recently told me
that his understanding was that, in overseeing what went
on in HSS and then the Overturned Conviction Scheme, the
Remediation Committee proceeded on the basis that
compensation offers would take account not just of what
might be full and fair for the postmaster but also what
was -- and these are my words, not his — acceptable
given the need to have value for money and taxpayers’
211
ONOneRwON a
©
1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
1 October 2024
to do, or you're going to have to rebuild data centres
at a prohibitive cost using very old technology.
MRSTEIN: Thank you, Mr Cameron.
Questioned by SIR WYN WILLIAMS
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Mr Cameron, in the aftermath of the Bates
litigation, HSS came into existence, yes?
A Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Presumably at or about the same time, the
Remediation Committee came into existence?
A. I think it was a little bit later, sir, but yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes. Were you on the Remediation
Committee from the outset?
A. I don't think I was. So one of my ~ apologies if this
is wrong ~ one of my agreements with Nick was that
I was ~ there was -- as soon as ~- straight after the
litigation, so I'm thinking sort of late-ish 2019, one
of the points I made was that the committee then
managing these matters was essentially exactly the same
people who had managed the litigation, other than Nick
swapping in for Paula. And I felt that was wrong and
hard to defend, and I thought -- and then it moved to
the whole Board. And in 2020, I think, sort of 40 Board
meetings or something. I mean, it was a huge increase
in work. And then the HRC was formed
Largely, my recollection of it -- and it may have
210
money was being used; is that your understanding as
well?
A. I never heard it expressed like that but I think there
are a couple of things. The fact that there were
detailed Treasury/DBT signed-off operational agreements
of how the HSS and OHC schemes had to be operated in
order for Treasury to fund the compensation meant that
that must have been built in to the process, I think.
And there was, I felt - and apologies to all the
lawyers in the room -- an excess of lawyers in the
process. I mean, I think at one point there was so much
opinion checking that three different QCs or four
different QCs were used for one question.
So it was a very bureaucratic process, which Post
Office -- and obviously Simon Recaldin would understand
this much better than me -- but Post Office had to
follow.
And I think — I mean, I did find the paused
payments issue pretty incomprehensible as to why Post
Office or the HRC was taking the stand it did. So it
does feel like maybe it was a value for money thing.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I asked the question, amongst other
reasons, because in documents which I have issued,
Ihave drawn attention to the fact that lawyers are used
to an adversarial system —
212
(53) Pages 209 - 212
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry 1 October 2024
A. Yeah. 1 this be a negotiation between lawyers or should this be,
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: -- in which defendants "get away with as 2 you know, a genuine attempt at remediation, that people
little as they can’, in inverted commas. 3 feel, at the end of it, that they're satisfied, justice
A. Yeah. 4 is satisfied, we can move on, and that they've been
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Claimants try to "get as much as they 5 properly compensated for everything that's happened to
can’, in inverted commas. 6 them?
A. Yeah. 7 And I think that did conflict with the sort of legal
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: At least some of the public utterances 8 advice, committees, you know, bureaucracy of the
from both Government Ministers and Post Office 9 schemes, you know, quite badly.
representatives suggested that this was to be somewhat 10 SIRWYN WILLIAMS: All right. Thank you very much,
different, in that the aim was to provide full and fair "1 Mr Cameron.
compensation promptly, and I drew attention to all of 12 Thank you for coming for a second time. I trust you
this in progress updates that I wrote. What's your 13 won't have to come again.
impression about what actually went on, on the ground? 14 THE WITNESS: Thank you very much, sir.
A. So I think, if you go back to the setting up of the HSS, 15 SIRWYN WILLIAMS: So 10.00 tomorrow morning, Mr Blake?
the decision was made for Herbert Smith Freehills to run 16 MRBLAKE: Thank you very much, sir.
the scheme, and they got that because of their role in 17 (4.38 pm)
the settlement, which was effectively them negotiating 18 (The hearing adjourned until 10.00 am the following day)
with the claimants from the GLO. 19
So it was set up on the basis of a negotiation 20
between lawyers and, essentially, there was an element 21
of that in the way that HSS was constructed. And 22
I think that was a mistake -- and Simon Recaldin, again, 23
will talk about this, I'm sure -- but my recollection of 24
him coming in was challenging everyone to say: should 25
213 214
INDEX
HENRY ERIC STAUNTON (sworn) 1
Questioned by MR BLAKE .
Questioned by MR JACOBS 149
Questioned by MR HENRY «0.0.0.0: 156
Questioned by SIR WYN WILLIAMS .. 165
ALISDAIR CHARLES JOHN CAMERON (affirmed}69
Questioned by MR BLAKE 2.2... 169
Questioned by MS WATT 193
Questioned by MR HENRY .... 197
Questioned by MR STEIN . 201
Questioned by SIR WYN WILLIAMS 210
215
(54) Pages 213 - 215
INQ00001189
1NQ00001189
“fact [1] 103/15 100 million-plus [1] I20 [1] 20/19 25 January [1]
WR BLAKE a5) 1/3I Quilty [4] 96/13 155/8 20 years [1] 203/17 I 162/25
MR BLAKE: [35] 18 106/25 143/6 143/18 I100 per cent [3] 200 million [2] 183/9 I25 June [1] 84/25
67/1 67/4 67/8 94/10 [‘helpful’ [1] 25/17 I 49/24 50/2 90/9 205/13 26 [1] 194/4
94/12 101/5 1142 Ihobble* [2] 37/5 41/8I100,000 [1] 200/21 I200,000 [3] 87/10 26 May [2] 180/13
4117/9 117/13 117/19 {hold [1] 44/8 41 [3] 65/18 97/25 I 87/10 88/20 180/14
117/21 135/9 135/13 I'Horizon [1] 102/18 I 158/16 2003 [2] 120/18 27 January [1] 132/8
1435/15 140/2 142/23 “huge [1] 40/11 11 November [1] 161/20 28 March [1] 61/23
144/13 149/14 149/20] 18 [1] 110/13 11/5 2010 [1] 151/22 28 November [1]
156/18 165/8 169/11 I'It [2] 105/6 140/12 I41,500 [1] 183/10 [2011 [2] 207/6 207/6 I 158/16
169/16 169/20 169/24] imp [1] 138/14 11.33 [1] 67/5 2012 [8] 184/8 3
193/3 193/10 197/11 I'Now [1] 41/7 11.45 [4] 149/24 184/21 198/11 199/15]2
204/23 214/16 ‘Only [1] 110/13 41.47 [4] 67/2 206/14 207/6 207/6 I3 January [1] 30/11
MR HENRY: [8] ‘operational [1] 11.49 [1] 67/7 208/18 3.15 [4] 169/17
156/21 163/16 164/7 I 43/14 12 [3] 2/9 99/10 2013 [4] 171/15 3.29 [1] 169/19
197/13 198/25 199/6 I Politicians [1] 40/14 I 158/19 171/20 172/25 173/17I 3.30 [1] 169/12
4199/9 204/21 ‘Post [1] 105/15 42 January [4] 162/1 I2015 [3] 191/10 30 [2] 97/14 98/2
MR JACOBS: [2] __ I Pushy [1] 44/2 42 million [1] 191/19 I 198/21 209/10 30 April [1] 171/5
149/22 156/13 ‘rip [1] 41/6 12 months [1] 194/7 I2018 [4] 184/8 30 million [2] 38/14
MR STEIN: [2] 202/1) Toute [1] 40/16 12 per cent [2] 99/9 I 193/23 197/16 197/23] 38/15
210/3 , ‘seriousness’ [1] 159/21 2019 [3] 190/13 30 September [1]
MS WATT: [2] 40/12 420 million [4] 38/1 I 191/1 210/16 313
193/13 197/10 ‘stripping [1] 93/21 I43 [3] 20/19 36/11 — I2019/2020 [1] 198/2 I300 million [3] 61/17
SIR WYN WILLIAMs;I the [2] 94/18 171/21 I 36/12 2020 [9] 178/19 7413 77/13
[59] 1/4 10/4 66/24 I There's [1] 12/2 I43 January [3] 179/24 180/13 180/20I34 [1] 95/8
67/3 94/7 94/11 ‘Trust! [1] 43/15 104/19 104/22 105/21I 191/10 191/22 197/15I330 million-odd [1]
100/15 100/23 101/1 ‘Untouchables’ [1] I 13 July [1] 53/22 198/2 210/22 60/14
4113/2 113/13 113/16 I 144/19 14 [1] 34/6 2021 [5] 171/5 183/7 I333 [2] 158/25
113/19 113/22 114/1 I with [1] 103/2 44 December [1] 184/16 185/1 189/2 I 160/15
417/12 117/15 117/20]. 93/25 2022 [22] 3/13 3/15 I340 million [1] 73/8
139/16 139/24 142/6 I — I 14 January [2] 8/9 11/5 11/15 12/5 I369 [1] 97/24
442/22 144/9 149/19 [7 Matters [1] 59/2 I 106/10 106/15 17/11 24/18 29/13 (qo
163/15 164/3 165/10 I4 414 years [2] 163/5 I 32/24 49/19 53/22, I _______
——___________I 163/13 53/24 63/4 156/22 I4 January [1] 93/4
eo oe leone 1 billion [7] 73/11 I442 [2] 97/14 98/3 I 165/14 187/17 189/23I4 September [1] 92/5
7. I 74/2 74/6 74/19 75/13] 45 [2] 56/19 67/1 190/15 190/17 191/21]4.38 [1] 214/17
166/20 166/23 167/5 I 77/43 203/6 45 August [1] 53/23 I 196/17 40 [3] 109/25 144/17
167/13 167/18 167/20I4 December [1] 45 July [1] 171/20 I2022/2023 [4] 7/9 I 210/22
168/4 168/10 168/18 I 44/45 15,000 [5] 86/20 21/22 42/14 53/2 I400 million [1] 183/8
1691 16914 169/15 4 million [3] 13/1 I 87/15 88/21 88/24/2023 [18] 7/9 21/22 I43,000 [1] 194/7
193/86 198/23 199/4 I ge/a2 191/20 90/10 34/5 42/14 53/2 60/23/48 [1] 109/23
rao 2108 210/45 I1 October [1] 3/15 I450 million [1] 151/4 I 61/23 68/13 83/15 I49[1] 156/24
ara otal oatee [1125,180 [1] 12/22 I46 4) 109/22 84/22 90/3 92/5 98/7
214/10 214/15 1.04 [1] 117/16 46 January [1] 114/7 I 156/23 159/1 173/23 I~>——_——______
-1 million [1] 52/13 I 469 million [1] 38/16 I 188/19 192/15 5 January [1] 34/4
THE WITNESS: [2] I4.2 million [4] 112/23I47 May [1] 170/16 I2024[13] 1/1 18/46 I5 July [1] 81/20
169/10 214/14 4.3 billion [1] 151/23 I479 million [1] 37/24 I 44/18 84/25 93/4 93/5]5 Million [1] 191/18
' 1.50 [3] 117/11 18 February [1] 100/18 101/5 138/6 IS years [1] 40/6
75] 2006 I 17/18.117/18 138/6 162/25 170/16 170/21I5.000 [1] 40/2
22 [3] 8/3.57123 [10 (2) S477 158/18 I48 January [3] 188/23 5.5 million [1] 207/14
‘atts 10 billion [1] 203/5 I 421/14 121/18 122/10I24 [4] 158/19 50 million [1] 205/14
‘221'23 [1] 8/3 10 January [1] 419 May [1] 180/19 I210 million [1] 37/23 I59 years [1] 130/5
: 406/15 oe ty 17416 50-year [1] 116/15
2313] 8/3 100/12 \4qNovember[t] I2 23 December [1] I500,000 [1] 194/23
salty 40113 92/9 2million [1] 191/17 I 32/24 550 £3] 99/6 189/21
‘all [1] 10 years [1] 86/22 I2 per [1] 52/9 23 June [2] 170/21
begging [2] 43/17 I49.09 3] 1/2. 214/15 2.07 cert? seas 58 [1] 178/3
‘bug [1] 171/10 214/18 2.1 [1] 206/25 23 March [2] 22/22 Ig
‘bug 10.5 million [1] 2.3 [3] 64/3.64/11 I 173/23 ——
‘cheerleader’ [1] 27/1 200/19 207/9 23 years [1] 2/4 6 December [1]
conning (1) 100 [3] 2/118/8 —I2,30 [1] 150/8 24 [1] 170/5 17/1
dees ny toa 29/78 2.5 [2] 64/14 197/624 January [1] 6 January [2] 97/13
eevised LT ig, (100 million [2] 1541/1 I2.8 [3] 64/19 65/2 I 156/23 44iet
Early [1] 183/14 65/11 245,000 [1] 194/23 I® June [2] 67/10
(55) MR BLAKE: - 6 June
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
6 41/11 41/12 41/13 academic [1] 145/14 I 132/2 adopted [2] 121/9
6 June... [1] 68/13 42/6 42/7 42/8 48/7 I accelerate [2] 105/18Iactive [3] 12/10 167/21
6 September [ty] 112 48/12 49/12 50/7 146/5 136/13 207/15 advantage [1] 186/23}
6.2 [2] 207/22 207/23 51/10 51/18 52/20 accelerated [1] actively [1] 93/21 adversarial [3] 21/12
6.4 [1] 208/6 52/20 53/15 54/8 185/22 activities [3] 8/20 22/7 212/25
60 billion [1] 200/19 57/10 58/18 58/18 Accenture [7] 74/20 I 9/13 150/3 advice [16] 43/25
60 million [2] 38/2 60/3 61/11 62/8 62/20I 74/22 74/25 75/7 activity [3] 18/23 89/4 94/4 103/4
38/11 63/12 63/19 66/5 67/1I 82/14 82/19 83/9 TTT 172/19 161/25 171/6 171/14
62 [4] 182/12 68/6 68/14 68/17 accept [8] 5/2 26/13 Iactual [8] 10/5 17/22 I 171/20 171/22 172/3
—-_—_—____I 68/17 69/8 69/9 69/10] 153/4 159/16 159/22 I 93/9 134/23 168/5 172/13 190/11 197/20)
7 69/11 69/14 69/14 161/10 161/16 197/21) 188/1 203/14 204/5 197/24 201/18 214/8
7 May [4] 186/19 I 89/17 70/11 70/19 acceptable [2] 43/13 Iactually [53] 11/7 __ advised [3] 20/8
70 [1] 194/15 70/24 72/20 73/9 211/24 13/17 15/4 15/9 21/7 I 20/24 171/15
70/80 hours [1] 73/19 74/6 75/10 77/6Iaccepted [4] 30/4 I 28/21 29/2 29/19 30/2I advising [1] 18/6
1453/7 78/24 79/11 79/17 77/25 185/15 198/21 I 30/3 31/15 39/15, advisory [4] 2/25
700 [3] 94/15 97/8 I 79/2480/1280/13 access [1] 209/4 I 49/23. 55/5 56/24 —_I 29/20 94/8 159/5
103/24 80/24 81/20 83/22 acclimatise [1] 24/8 I 57/22 58/19 63/18 aegis [1] 200/12
ill 1g6/9 I 84/15 86/22 91/15 jaccount [15] 86/23 I 70/23 71/1 74/24 _I affected [1] 182/13
Toon I 98/6 100/16 102/11 I 87/8 87/1290/12 _I 76/13 82/15 84/2 _affecting [2] 14/4
700-plus [1] 34/11 I 104/21 112/18 11377 I 108/19 114/12 127/9 I 85/19 86/7 88/1 96/20I 114/18
72 [1] 188/24 115/13 119/8 121/7 I 134/25 167/10 167/14I 103/17 113/7 118/14 I affirmed [2] 169/22
77 [4] 20/17 122/18 122/21 123/7 I 168/6 171/13 179/17 I 119/6 124/13 127/14 I 215/12
788,000 [1] 13/1 125/19 125/21 126/12] 179/18 211/22 127/18 130/8 131/10 Iafford [1] 183/11
788,500 [1] 12/17 126/13 127/11 127/25Iaccount' [1] 44/8 143/20 145/10 145/25I afraid [7] 28/14
——_— I 128/6 129/4 129/9 accountability [3] 151/8 152/15 155/1 I 108/20 112/25 163/21
8 129/20 129/23 134/17I 66/2 66/6 84/16 156/7 160/12 162/7 I 168/24 169/3 180/2
8 April [4] 176/19 I 135/23 137/10 137/11Iaccountable [6] 163/25 164/10 184/18] after [43] 23/5 24/14
8 August [1] 170/2 I 137/19 139/16 141/23] 75/21 198/12 199/16 I 186/11 201/11 205/22] 29/8 30/12 35/9 35/17
8 January [1] 102/14 I 142/25 144/9 147/10 I 199/24 20/7 200/8 I 213/14 37/23 40/22 52/25
8 July [1] 171/15 I 153/16 155/8 160/13 Iaccountant [3] 2/2 acutely [1] 161/17 I 53/19 55/4 59/18 61/4)
8.4 [1] 158/20 160/22 161/4 165/2 I 56/2 58/7 add [2] 90/12 142/14 I 63/9 63/18 82/12 88/6I
80 [1] 194/21 166/4 166/12 166/24 Iaccounting [4] added [1] 184/14 I 100/12 100/18 100/21
800 million [2] 58/8. I 167/25 168/3 174/9 I 175/14 179/16 179/20I addition [4] 97/14 I 101/22 106/16 106/17
61/18 174/20 176/11 177/5 I 180/5 98/3 103/13 178/20 I 106/17 114/24 124/25]
800,000 [1] 112/22 I 177/9 177/18 178/8 accounts [4] 87/4 _ I additional [2] 38/10 I 130/5 138/5 143/13
83 [4] 1/16 179/12 180/15 181/3 I 87/14 107/11 124/2 I 38/23 146/21 150/22 150/23
84 [4] 202/5 181/7 184/18 184/25 Iaccurate [7] 27/3 Iaddress [15] 11/2 I 152/10 163/1 163/13
840 million [2] 60/15 I 190/1 190/16 190/18 I 103/21 133/21 134/24] 11/18 13/13 28/16 _ I 181/6 189/16 191/13
73/8 191/8 192/13 196/7 I 138/16 142/9 172/12 I 37/6 56/14 71/4 78/5 I 191/25 197/2 198/11
89 [1] 202/16 197/3 197/23 198/6 Iachieve [2] 16/22 I 82/1 85/2 86/13 199/15 210/15
———— I 206/5 206/22 210/8 I 17/1 135/13 140/5 158/6 Iaftermath [1] 210/5
9 211/9 211/17 213/14 Iachieved [2] 41/2 I 205/7 afternoon [9] 55/11
9 January [2] 93/10 I 213/24 158/25 addressed [14] 5/19 I 117/19 149/18 150/9
161/24 above [6] 25/9 40/10 I achievement [1] 20/2 20/4 23/7 46/1 I 169/12 169/14 169/20}
90 million [1] 184/14 I 68/7 71/23 110/12 I 161/13 80/25 135/20 158/13 I 170/19 193/13
95 per cent [2] 49/24] 176/13 acknowledge [1] 163/14 163/17 174/5 I afterwards [5] 26/8
50/2 absolutely [47] 5/4 I 8/25 185/10 188/23 192/24] 41/17 119/9 158/7
99 [1] 200/17 24/16 50/9 50/9 56/9 Iacknowledged [1] _ Iaddresses [1] 77/23 I 159/23
-—-_I 83/5 94/10 96/5 96/7 I 77/25 addressing [7] 11/10Iagain [28] 12/4 44/11
A 100/5 100/7 103/6 acknowledging [1] I 19/22 21/2457/17 I 45/20 46/1 50/17
abilities [1] 82/9 106/6 106/7 111/1 I 49/7 82/7 92/13 176/14 I 55/11 64/11 65/11
ability [3] 18/18 118/13 120/5 120/10 Iacquisitions [1] adds [1] 194/11 65/11 66/19 78/5
77/49 114/19 128/7 135/2 137/13 I 136/13 adjectives [1] 21/13 I 78/11 80/12 93/3 99/5
able [8] 10/7 13/10 I 137/15 145/22 145/23I across [10] 5/9 9/3 Iadjourned [1] 214/18] 107/17 108/7 108/23
155/24 157/12 162/10I 148/23 148/25 151/6 I 27/9 39/3 39/4 72/15 I Adjournment [1] 109/23 110/7 114/15
174/10 184/15 189/22] 152/3 153/11 153/19 I 79/10 141/22 148/19 I 117/17 144/9 173/5 173/15
abolished [1] 60/3 I 162/15 164/24 165/6 I 181/15 administered [1] 201/20 205/18 213/23
about [151] 3/9 5/16 I 165/7 167/12 167/17 Iact [8] 17/15 26/25 I 34/16 214/13
5/17 5/19 6/7 6/10 __I 167/17 175/22 186/16I 27/1 27/11 46/22 Iadministration [1] _ I against [18] 4/12
6/25 10/14 14/5 18/13) 189/6 196/14 197/8 I 66/15 89/25 108/3 I 34/20 9/22 11/19 20/15
22/22 27/17 31/4 197/25 198/19 200/2 Iacting [2] 98/7 132/5 Iadmit [2] 127/20 20/25 76/4 92/22
34/24 35/3 35/24 200/8 209/25 action [5] 12/12 133/8 105/23 119/17 120/15
35/25 40/19 40/21 IAC [3] 20/21 20/24 I 12/20 37/2 78/3 115/7Iadmitting [2] 68/8 I 121/3 129/25 131/15
2113 actions [2] 4/12 99/11 132/1 155/23 156/6
(56) 6 June... - against
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
A all [137] 2/6 6/2 7/20 Ialso [50] 2/22 2/24 183/14 188/14 197/4 I 49/21 198/1
against... [2] 156/10 14/3 14/19 16/1 17/23I 10/10 10/17 13/8 197/16 appalling [5] 73/25
157/22 - 23/8 24/11 24/14 26/2) 22/18 26/7 29/2 32/9 Ianswer [16] 24/4 145/23 148/23 148/25)
agencies [1] 82/23 31/9 33/18 33/23 35/9) 32/13 34/15 34/22 45/15 69/9 69/15 71/3] 149/13
36/15 39/16 40/1 38/23 40/25 43/14 I 71/4 74/5 75/13 87/25I apparently [2] 157/3
agenda [1] 101/23
agendas [1] 62/5 40/10 46/19 48/9 45/13 50/11 60/22 122/3 160/18 161/1 I 176/12
aggressive [1] 55/17 57/8 57/14 62/1I 63/7 63/23 67/20 71/2) 164/3 169/3 173/25 I appeal [14] 95/12
viet 65/16 67/3 68/1 71/22I 72/14 78/4 82/21 180/2 97/21 103/23 104/1
aghast [1] 42/13 73/9 81/2 82/14 85/4 I 91/21 94/25 97/7 answered [1] 142/9 I 162/24 162/25 163/3
ago [3] 43/19 89/13 87/21 89/11 91/18 105/9 108/4 113/6 answering [1] 169/8 I 163/6 163/8 163/11
115/41 92/8 93/13 93/15 94/3) 115/15 115/24 117/24) answers [2] 92/3 163/22 171/23 185/15)
agree [22] 15/4 31/8 94/12 95/19 96/2 96/5} 121/14 123/20 125/22) 142/10 186/9
32/9 32/9 47/12 49/11I 96/24 103/18 103/23 I 126/24 127/2 129/7 antagonistic [1] appealable [1]
50/15 76/11 111/22 I 104/2 104/8 107/20 I 129/12 130/15 137/18) 25/18 159/22
145/8 158/1 162/22 I 108/4 108/11 109/9_ I 160/14 161/5 165/20 I anti [2] 140/12 148/1 Iappealed [2] 94/20
1465/7 183/22 194/24 I 109/17 111/5 113/17 I 173/24 179/15 200/3 Ianti-postmaster [2] I 105/7
1146 1185/8 118/14 I 211/23 140/12 148/1 appeals [3] 93/22
soaad soalse soe I 115/23 116/4 116/8 alternative [1] anticipate [1] 4/1 _ I 94/6 159/4
20224 416/11 116/16 116/20) 178/20 anticipated [1] 19/10 Iappear [4] 38/22
agreed [29] 31/11 119/1 119/8 119/9 although [7] 74/25 IAntony [1] 147/5 41/10 81/24 159/2
S510 45/21 50/20 119/12 119/21 120/5 I 78/18 102/23 159/2 Ianxious [2] 70/23 appears [3] 18/1
55/18 74/7 74/20 120/13 125/5 126/7 I 170/24 178/10 187/25) 153/9 123/6 140/21
80/19 82/14 86/21 128/6 128/18 128/24 IAltman's [1] 172/23 Iany [73] 3/205/17 I Appellant [1] 158/21
90/11 90/16 91/3 131/9 136/12 138/21 Ialways [11] 29/1 39/9I 6/14 6/17 6/19 6/23 I appetite [5] 6/2 33/9
96/18 101/17 107/5 I 140/1 140/25 141/10 I 45/18 66/18 71/6 12/1 12/7 13/16 16/21I 36/25 41/6 42/20
127/19 127/20 129/1 I 141/13 142/20 142/22) 76/23 136/9 136/18 I 20/16 28/11 39/1 applicants [2] 97/14
143/19 144/1 144/5 143/24 145/24 146/3 I 137/23 187/5 211/15 I 42/16 48/17 51/9 98/2
1450/9 184/11 189/15 I 149/4 149/15 150/25 Iam [17] 1/2 2/24 51/17 51/17 51/24 I applications [1] 95/9
189/15 190/6 190/17 I 151/18 155/17 156/3 I 11/10 27/19 28/14 51/25 53/9 59/10 applied [1] 40/15
196/15 160/1 160/23 162/22 I 30/11 32/5 67/5 67/7 I 64/24 68/19 71/6 71/7I appoint [3] 82/14
165/4 165/8 166/17 I 71/3 89/18 94/23 71/12 79/4 79/8 83/20} 131/23 131/23
agreeing [1] 45/13 I 1¢¢/00 166/23 167/5 I 95/21 106/14 108/19 I 87/7 87/9 87/13 90/14I appointed [7] 13/16
agreement [2]
soos 202122 169/4 169/7 169/13 I 187/9 214/18 94/2 99/6 99/10 99/23] 17/11 17/15 17/19
agreements [4] 171/16 172/7 175/9_IAmanda [7] 14/21 I 105/1 107/14 109/16 I 39/7 121/10 156/21
r/23 185/18 210/14) 176/16 179/16 182/19] 67/22 89/4 89/15 113/25 124/19 125/5 Iappointment [8]
2125 182/20 183/3 183/5 I 123/2 134/13 145/2 I 128/11 129/4 130/10 I 15/13 15/17 118/4
Ah [1] 61/13 183/17 184/9 184/23 Iamazing [1] 71/8 I 132/16 137/2 14/6 I 123/22 124/8 124/21
ahead [2] 75/8 185/13 187/6 188/9 Iambition [3] 8/8 142/16 147/6 155/24 I 131/21 165/15
128/13 191/24 192/5 192/7 I 49/18 50/5 156/13 159/13 160/19I appointments [1]
aid [3] 42/21 43/7 I 193/3 194/10 197/4 Iamong [1] 23/10 160/24 162/7 163/4 I 83/7
Bait 200/11 204/5 205/24 Iamongst [3] 25/2 I 164/25 165/9 166/11 Iappreciate [3] 83/24
aid! [1] 41/7 208/9 209/17 211/8 I 164/18 212/22 180/25 183/19 185/11I 139/17 204/7
aim [3] 29/1 89/22 I 21/9 213/12 214/10 Iamount [14] 3/24 I 188/6 192/4 192/25 approach [13] 22/7
att allegation [4] 60/24 I 15/3 50/21 54/3 54/6 I 193/7 206/8 207/8 I 31/11 53/3 64/7 67/24I
Alan [1] 146/16 61/1 127/3 131/20 I 87/3 87/11 89/2 108/1) 209/2 209/5, 82/1 95/6 99/16
albeit [1] 92/6 allegations [8] 81/24 I 109/22 169/12 179/11Ianybody [4] 79/5 I 101/11 105/11 168/5
ALBs [1] 45/25 82/2 91/22 110/23 I 184/17 186/7 104/12 104/13 162/7 I 168/19 169/3
‘ALBs/Partner [1] 127/4 129/19 131/15. Ianalysis [1] 5/1 anyone [9] 5/15 approached [3] 3/3
45/28 131/15 analysts [1] 28/5 I 75/17 75/21 147/12 I 3/6 130/4
alerting [1] 208/10 [alleged [1] 4/13 Andrew [13] 80/19 I 156/3 178/12 186/14 Iapproaches [1]
Alex [51 93/20 94/25 [allegedly [1] 171/22 I 115/8 119/24 120/1 I 186/23 204/17 167/21
96/19 102/25 104/24 allow [4] 11/18 48/18] 120/3 120/11 120/24 I anything [10] 27/9 I approaching [1]
89/25 155/2 121/10 124/6 129/24 I 39/15 71/23 142/11 I 162/11
a eye saziiglalmost [5] 27/9 54/20] 130/17 131/24 145/3 I 143/22 144/6 145/19 I appropriate [8] 9/4
aligned [3] 49/9 101/6 117/5 190/24 Iangry [2] 52/20 52/20) 147/7 182/17 196/20 I 10/16 22/19 36/16
5011 62/8 alone [4] 52/13 92/20I annual [2] 61/25 anyway [4] 2/1 23/16I 66/22 117/10 148/16
Alisdair [13] 55/14 93/18 112/23 69/24 122/24 190/24 165/23
55/23 57/18 59/22 [along [2] 67/22 78/7 Iannum [1] 207/14 Ianywhere [1] 48/6 I appropriately [1]
60/4 60/11 60/17 73/1 alongside [1] 9/15 Ianonymous [1] 72/9 Iapart [1] 147/4 57/17
73/4 167/24 169/22 already [14] 19/8 another [17] 26/21 Iapologetic [1] 123/11/approval [5] 14/12
169/25 215/12 46/20 47/6 55/16 72/8I 43/17 55/17 56/2 apologies [4] 94/10 I 14/23 62/18 101/19
Alisdair's [2] 56/24 73/20 83/20 145/6 105/9 108/21 122/3 I 210/13 211/7 212/9 I 182/18
61/2 157/6 157/14 158/4 I 124/2 130/23 137/6 Iapologise [1] 123/11 Iapprove [4] 12/1
173/20 181/10 186/22I 145/16 160/25 179/14) apology [3] 49/6 13/11 47/5 120/20
(67) against... - approve
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
A aren't [4] 32/16 38/4 50/24 59/4 60/25 180/9 207/19 43/7 51/25
approved [3] 48/18 I 100/24 124/3 148/16 I 91/13 115/11 118/8 average [1] 194/7 banking [4] 18/12
51/4 130/16 argument [2] 20/25 I 121/17 122/15 143/10)/aversion [2] 68/8 151/3 154/14 184/13
approximately [2] 47/11 173/3 181/13 182/16 I 69/13 banks [1] 184/13
59/4 200/20 arisen [1] 38/1 188/25 avoid [3] 145/16 barcodes [1] 175/16
April [3] 171/5 arising [4] 38/17 assistance [1] 95/17 I 148/1 191/23 barrister [1] 127/7
178/19 192/15 63/21 65/22 119/1 assistant [1] 19/17 Iavoidance [1] 3/21 IBartlett [1] 110/15
ARA [2] 197/2 197/2 army [1] 28/5 assists [1] 92/3 awaiting [1] 97/15 I base [5] 40/25 151/1
arbitrarily [1] 196/24 arose [1] 14/16 associated [1] aware [37] 7/3 34/7 I 151/2 152/7 154/13
Arbuthnot [1] 173/10 around [23] 12/23 194/11 55/21 55/23 57/6 57/8) based [12] 22/9
are [142] 8/1 8/20 29/18 39/3 43/18 assume [8] 49/13 57/12 66/4 69/7 72/18] 94/14 95/9 96/7 99/10
8/21 10/14 11/6 12/9 I 49/11 49/7 55/19 93/13 93/18 93/23 72/23 73/10 76/9 99/12 103/24 104/11
12/24 14/25 19/22 56/18 116/4 116/23 I 100/16 147/11 181/3 I 77/10 78/4 78/9 78/13) 105/12 127/23 160/16
19/23 21/8 22/17 121/24 164/20 168/24] 187/23 78/15 86/9 88/7 90/4 I 168/17
23/22 24/5 27/14 173/16 181/4 182/24 Iassumed [3] 36/20 I 91/7 92/18 95/25 basic [1] 61/8
27/20 30/12 31/8 182/25 184/13 184/20I 142/13 190/25 107/18 121/25 121/25I basically [1] 162/1
32/18 35/8 39/2 39/18) 185/13 194/7 205/5 Iassuming [1] 24/7 I 124/18 137/18 161/17/basics [2] 58/7 58/9
4119 52/10 60/12._—I 208/21 assumption [2] 168/5 168/18 168/19 Ibasis [11] 21/19
62/3 62/14 63/16. _—-([atrange [1] 202/13 I 94/14 95/11 171/11 176/16 180/25] 63/15 68/20 80/23
64/17 65/18 66/13 arrangement [1] astonished [1] 185/9 94/3 136/25 192/4
68/6 70/24 71/12 207/15 183/12 away [10] 30/8 30/24 I 197/19 198/1 211/21
75/18 79/19 80/24 _[affangements [2] _I astonishing [3] 14/7 I 46/16 48/9 116/9 213/20
813.8113 81/14 I 177/22 190/12 52/16 132/15 119/8 154/3 155/10 IBates [7] 96/9 98/24
83/20 85/9 85/11 9g/9I2'ticle [1] 142/23 astride [1] 61/7 192/16 213/2 100/19 102/20 128/7
g9/12.89/18 91/7 IArticles [1] 134/5 — Iasymmetric [1] 28/2 Iawful [3] 165/1 146/16 210/5
93/14 94/14 94/15 {a8 [309] at [265] 185/12 195/9 battle [1] 162/16
95/7 95/21 98/2 98/9 IAShtead [1] 2/14 _ atmosphere [1] BO {battling [1] 157/22
98/10 98/19 98/23 [aside [6] 36/22 189/21 be [251]
103/17 103/17 103/18I 126/10 186/4 186/7 attach [1] 105/5 back [43] 3/8 28/20 Ibear [2] 184/22
403/19 103/24 105/4 I 186/19 186/22 attachment [1] 94/1 I 40/6 52/18 56/13 193/20
toe/7 1086/9 106/10 I 2K [25] 1/16 11/10 attack [1] 88/15 56/16 61/19 63/4 Bearing [1] 86/22
407/2 108/1 108/3 I 40/22 51/7 84/15 attacking [1] 41/1 I 67/19 70/22 73/2 75/7I became [9] 2/8 2/12
to8/9 108/9 108/17 I 102/11 117/11 121/19] attempt [3] 25/1 85/12 85/13 98/7 7/3 129/16 135/17
408/20 112/10 112/18) 128/10 140/4 140/13 I 184/7 214/2 98/23 111/3 111/23 I 168/21 168/22 173/7
412/24 114/18 114/18] 142/25 156/13 165/25I attempted [2] 131/16] 117/11 120/18 122/10] 173/9
416/20 117/21 117/22] 186/3 167/6 170/4 I 162/9 129/1 135/16 137/1 Ibecause [119] 4/3
422/23 123/4 124/2 I 173/24 174/8 193/9 attempts [1] 179/22 I 137/20 142/21 142/24I 4/8 5/15 14/12 15/5
424/18 125/11 12714 I 193/15 193/22 198/6 Iattend [2] 211/2 148/9 150/8 159/24 I 17/24 21/11 21/18
429/10 129/19 132/7 I 203/10 204/8 211/13 163/5 165/12 166/14 I 23/21 25/3 27/8 31/17
4134/2 135/24 135/25 I@Sked [27] 14/9 attendance [1] 23/3 I 178/18 180/3 192/17 I 40/3 40/7 42/5 42/18
138/21 142/2 142/8 I 37/18 61/24 62/15, attended [1] 18/2 192/21 197/16 202/15] 44/16 51/4 57/9 58/10
1446/2 146/3 148/7 68/16 89/3 98/9 128/9I attending [2] 53/25 I 206/24 209/14 209/19I 63/15 68/16 70/7 70/8
148/10 148/15 148/21I 129/7 130/10 130/12 I 170/25 213/15 70/10 71/1 72/11
149/6 149/15 151/9 I 130/17 139/2 144/4 attends [1] 135/22 background [9] 2/1 I 73/17 73/19 75/3
151/10 151/15 151/19I 168/3 177/10 177/13 Iattention [14] 15/21 6/14 45/23 93/6 96/2 I 76/21 79/15 82/3 88/8
153/2 153/3 153/3 177/16 177/21 183/15] 125/15 125/18 126/1 I 100/20 101/3 115/24 I 88/9 90/22 91/15
1453/6 153/14 155/15 186/15 186/25 189/14) 126/19 126/23 150/21 206/25 91/25 94/3 96/6 96/20)
455/24 157/2 161/4 192/18 202/2 204/8 I 204/18 206/24 207/25Ibacking [1] 17/3 98/20 107/23 110/18
163/25 164/2 165/8 212/22 208/22 209/7 212/24 Ibackwards [1] 177/1I 110/21 112/13 112/20
168/18 168/19 169/5 asking [7] 12/25 22/4I 213/12 bad [5] 40/22 50/20 I 112/22 113/11 117/5
1474/6 174/10 176/9 160/7 166/23 183/8 Iattitude [4] 4/15 5/13) 121/22 152/10 177/12) 119/19 119/25 120/17
1476/9 176/21 176/22 192/5 192/6 5/21 36/7 Badenoch [3] 133/23] 121/25 122/19 127/13}
1480/14 180/25 181/3 asks [1] 90/21 Audit [7] 86/4 86/11 I 134/7 134/16 128/11 128/25 130/1
1482/20 193/3 193/4 I@sPect [2] 91/24 88/5 91/2 107/12 badly [4] 155/20 131/4 132/2 135/5
1495/1 195/8 195/9 131/14 107/21 180/19 196/11 203/18 214/9 I 136/12 137/18 137/25
205/1 211/24 212/4 Iaspects [1] 16/11 August [3] 53/23 balance [6] 20/7 138/20 138/22 139/12)
212/24 aspires [1] 65/2 72/21 170/2 20/22 22/20 23/17 140/6 140/13 141/2
area [6] 41/20 41/21 assess [2] 12/18 authority [3] 118/11 I 86/20 89/23 141/17 142/20 143/6
64/4 81/10 84/10 64/7 182/1 182/5 balanced [1] 163/19 I 143/12 144/5 145/10
136/15 assessment [5] 48/1 Iautomated [1] balances [2] 86/16 I 146/5 148/25 150/7
areas [6] 8/6 8/18 55/18 105/12 105/16 I 175/23 153/21 450/17 151/6 151/13
28/6 42/23 62/3 150/2 autumn [2] 177/13 Ibalancing [2] 9/2 452/16 153/11 153/24)
151/16 asset [1] 205/3 185/2 46/22 454/5 155/2 160/15
assist [16] 3/2 10/7 Iavailable [3] 97/19 Iband [4] 41/6 42/21 I 162/4 164/1 165/17
(68) approved - because
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
B 209/11 209/19 211/1 I 15/11 192/14 119/24 120/7 120/12
because... [27] 211/6 212/8 214/4 BEIS0000752 [1] bigger [1] 151/13 120/19 120/22 120/23)
167/13 168/10 168/14IbeeP [1] 135/9 44/15 biggest [5] 2/23 4/22 I 121/6 121/10 121/11
168/24 172/7 176/20 IPefore [60] 6/18 10/1 IBEIS0000753 [1] 85/9 125/20 131/11 I 123/10 124/1 124/12
177/16 178/10 181/19I 11/7 16/11 29/7 29/16) 146/21 bill [3] 18/8 102/4 125/10 125/11 125/25)
181/25 185/4 186/11 I 37/14 38/17 39/20 BEIS0000931 [2] 102/8 126/8 131/11 131/22
187/14 189/5 191/13 I 21/4 55/3 55/20 55/24) 133/11 133/17 billion [10] 73/11 132/5 134/6 135/21
192/22 199/2 201/7 I 97/20 59/6 61/20 63/9Ibelatedly [1] 141/17 I 74/2 74/6 74/19 75/13] 144/2 147/20 147/22
201/9 204/3 205/15 I 70/3 70/11 72/25 74/3) belief [5] 1/21 1/22 I 77/13 151/23 200/19 I 156/22 157/1 157/3
205/23 206/1 209/14 I 74/11. 77/17 79/22 114/20 132/20 170/10] 203/5 203/6 158/12 160/10 160/11
209/21 212/23 213/17I 85/4 85/8 86/11 97/3 Ibelieve [13] 11/16 I bit [14] 20/5 39/16 160/19 163/23 164/14)
become [3] 11/14 102/15 108/16 112/3 I 12/9 23/15 46/14 60/18 75/2 98/7 116/2I 164/15 164/21 166/11
1405/1 173/15 112/24 114/5 117/1 I 91/14 92/25 103/20 I 133/1 148/3 156/7 166/13 167/4 168/14
been [163] 5/3 6/16 117/24 125/9 127/12 I 107/15 122/5 123/2 I 160/12 190/16 193/21I 172/1 172/5 172/10
13/15 15/9 17/10 20/8I 127/23 129/16 130/7 I 153/23 188/20 208/24) 207/16 210/10 173/7 178/4 178/8
20/16 20/19 20/20 135/17 135/20 136/3 Ibelieved [2] 37/2 bits [1] 70/23 178/19 178/21 180/13)
22/3 23/6 23/23 34/3 I 138/4 142/3 142/14 I 201/4 bizarre [3] 129/22 180/14 180/21 185/10)
34/23 35/19 37/7 162/25 163/8 164/19 Ibelow [12] 12/20 129/23 130/18 185/12 190/16 199/23)
37/19 39/1 39/7 43/16I 195/15 168/14 168/21) 24/21 37/6 45/2 65/17I black [1] 131/9 200/4 208/20 208/23
47218 1735 19013 I 81/22 82/6 97/10 I BLAKE [12] 1/8 10/4 I 210/22 210122
aes tnlaII 193/6 200/9 208119 I 97/16 114/10 152/25 I 94/7 100/17 142/10 I Board's [2] 64/7
209/3 209/6 17713 144/12 150/9 169/23 I 118/17
areeunea edad began [1] 3/14 Ben [15] 30/16 35/23 I 202/2 214/15 215/4 IBoards [2] 37/19
59/13 60/25 64/21 beginning [7] 6/12 I 35/24 99/5 99/6 215/14 112/20
84/24 65/3 65/21 70/2 98/21 185/1 112/14 115/6 129/18 Iblaming [1] 30/3 I body [1] 143/2
6523 67/13 72/13 I 201/21.211/1 211/7 I 147/19 158/9 160/13 Iblanket [1] 104/6 bonus [5] 50/18
PNT 72I19 73/14. Ibehalf [3] 132/3 160/21 172/18 191/4 Ibloated [1] 33/10 I 50/25 51/2 52/18.
73/15 74/18 75/19 I 1691/3 193/15 211/4 block [1] 164/20 67/15
behaved [1] 108/5 Ibenefit [5] 88/21 _I blown [2] 39/2 50/1 Ibonuses [1] 155/3
ee eano feng behaviour [5] 78/4 I 122/17 129/21 155/10Iboard [172] 2/25 both [25] 2/11 11/24
85/17 88/1 89/14 105/12 107/9 110/16 I 156/25 12/11 16/16 17/9 11/25 29/9 29/10
89/23 91/6 92/1 93/19) 134/18 benefiting [1] 151/19] 17/10 17/20 19/4 32/12 36/19 49/2 50/1
94/24 96/1 97/17 behaviours [2] 76/6 Ibenefits [1] 12/24 19/13 23/2 23/24 24/5I 57/24 58/1 78/15
100/12 100/13 100/17] “2/18 best [10] 1/20 1/22 I 24/9 24/10 24/14 111/22 111/23 116/24)
401/12 101/21 107/7 [behind [1] 1/13 18/18 52/12 66/15 25/21 26/7 26/9 28/2 I 131/18 138/3 157/10
1407/12 107/13 107/22I being [80] 10/23 12/7I 133/18 170/9 187/20 I 28/16 28/22 28/25 161/2 165/3 174/3
110/16 114/12 115/3 I 19/23 20/2 21/6 24/13) 208/11 208/24 29/20 29/21 29/23 178/5 185/19 190/19
4115/9 115/15 115/19 I 27/21 31/17 38/21 better [6] 41/19 29/24 30/21 31/1 213/9
116/16 122/2 122/12 I 40/17 42/3 49/7 55/21] 135/6 151/17 151/18 I 31/14 31/20 31/24 bottom [13] 7/16
122/12 123/8 123/15 I 60/18 61/11 62/15 179/4 212/16 35/17 43/16 50/13 9/21 24/20 44/19 55/9
1425/8 125/8 126/6 66/18 68/3 68/22 70/4I between [43] 13/4 53/25 56/1 57/10 85/20 86/2 102/15
4126/7 126/20 129/4 I 70/5 71/9 72/3 73/1 I 14/17 23/17 24/18 57/21 57/21 59/6 140/6 171/4 174/4
1430/3 130/10 130/17 I 79/18 75/21 76/4 25/12 26/25 31/25 59/24 60/13 60/25 184/14 199/2
130/19 130/20 130/24I 77/14 81/13 82/21 36/4 46/14 62/6 62/9 I 61/12 61/22 62/1 62/4I/bounce [1] 122/22
133/5 134/18 135/10 I 89/17 90/2 90/9 94/17I 64/17 64/22 98/1 62/7 62/16 62/17 bound [2] 18/22
139/10 144/3 14/8 I 94/24 98/1 99/24 108/18 114/10 123/21) 62/18 62/24 63/1 63/2I 97/20
151/21 152/19 155/16I 102/21 109/22 109/24) 124/7 124/11 126/2 I 63/3 64/2 64/12 64/13I bowl’ [2] 43/17 45/18
1456/1 157/12 158/24 I 112/11 115/14 115/16] 129/5 133/13 134/25 I 64/18 65/10 65/16 boys [2] 79/11 81/15
459/5 159/9 161/21 115/17 119/3 119/12 I 136/10 137/21 137/22) 65/20 65/22 66/11 brackets [1] 200/16
1462/5 163/21 164/4 I 123/19 125/12 125/13] 153/12 162/6 167/7 I 66/15 67/10 67/13 Bradshaw [1] 110/1
164/23 165/3 171/10 I 127/2 127/6 127/15 I 173/10 176/3 177/21 I 69/24 69/25 72/19 branch [12] 18/20
174/13 172/18 174/7 I 129/19 135/24 135/25] 182/21 183/4 183/19 I 73/7 77/7 80/17 80/21] 175/12 179/4 179/6
174/13 175/4 175/17 I 137/20 146/18 148/2 I 184/1 184/8 187/24 I 81/20 82/1 82/7 82/9 I 179/10 179/13 179/23
175/18 178/2 17/4 I 174/22 177/21 178/21I 188/25 191/10 196/8 I 82/11 83/10 84/7 86/4I 179/25 180/7 180/8
179/5 179/11 1eo/19 I 180/24 181/25 182/1 I 213/21 214/1 94/8 96/20 96/22 98/8I 204/24 205/1
484/12 185/7 185/25 I 182/5 182/17 183/18 Ibeyond [2] 114/20 I 99/1 99/7 99/15 99/15] branches [5] 114/7
185/10 186/25 191/24] 128/1 99/20 99/22 100/11 I 175/16 183/10 202/7
187/2 187/16 187/23 ;
187/25 188/17 190/10I 191/25 195/25 196/2 Ibickering [1] 76/23 I 100/13 100/18 101/10) 205/1
191/17 194/6 194/13 I 198/8 203/19 203/22 Ibig [20] 40/19 41/2 I 101/12 101/19 101/21) brave [1] 149/10
1496/2 196/20 196/25 I 206/18 207/18 211/11) 41/2 41/14 45/7 51/20) 101/22 105/17 106/23I breach [1] 190/22
212/1 53/15 56/7 56/19 110/3 111/18 112/9 I break [9] 55/3 61/21
Seed boat oboe BEIS [4] 19/5 19/14 I 59/23 61/8 71/15 112/15 112/17 115/9 I 66/23 67/6 112/3
205/22 209/7 209/8 I 32/12 43/10 73/22 74/4 81/9 109/2I 115/15 115/24 119/4 I 112/25 117/11 169/12
BEIS0000607 [1] 127/19 132/25 162/16) 119/12 119/16 119/21I 169/18
(59) because... - break
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
B
breaking [1] 134/9
brewing [1] 73/5
Brian [3] 31/23 32/2
172/23
bridge [1] 48/20
brief [3] 181/21
181/21 181/22
briefing [4] 4/23
44/24 94/25 163/19
briefings [3] 4/10
4/11 6/19
briefly [8] 62/10
64/15 85/22 91/13
156/5 177/6 183/24
206/24
brilliant [2] 203/2
204/22
brilliantly [1] 203/23
bring [6] 55/7 62/18
103/25 111/14 112/20)
173/23
British [1] 2/23
brittle [1] 68/3
broach [1] 32/14
broad [1] 41/10
broader [1] 140/23
broadly [6] 45/8 76/9
79/5 101/24 125/21
125/25
broke [1] 96/9
broken [2] 73/19
100/19
brought [3] 55/21
208/22 209/7
brutal [1] 6/9
brutality [1] 165/2
BT [2] 18/25 20/7
bubbled [1] 184/20
budget [2] 37/25
203/13
budgets [1] 196/15
buffer [1] 15/7
bug [1] 207/8
bugs [2] 171/12
207/9
Build [1] 8/4
building [1] 60/11
built [6] 74/12 74/17
74/23 86/21 86/24
212/8
bullet [7] 8/2 9/11
65/24 138/11 142/24
143/11 180/16
bundle [1] 1/14
bureaucracy [2] 22/6
214/8
bureaucratic [4]
21/12 34/16 34/20
212/14
Burton [12] 14/21
15/4 67/16 112/14
119/18 120/6 120/14
121/2 123/2 128/21
131/13 145/2
Burton's [1] 67/22
bus [1] 155/23
business [94] 2/23
2/25 4/16 4/25 5/6
5/13 6/18 7/5 10/2
19/1 28/5 33/5 38/18
38/19 40/25 41/21
42/9 44/15 57/17 68/3
70/16 70/20 71/1
72/16 73/21 75/17
77/2 78/17 78/22 79/2
79/20 80/1 80/3 84/11
85/1 85/7 85/8 87/11
87/17 104/4 114/17
116/16 117/4 125/21
125/25 126/17 132/16)
136/10 139/5 143/10
148/6 148/17 148/20
150/14 150/23 150/24)
150/25 151/5 151/18
152/17 153/3 154/13
154/15 154/20 154/23)
174/15 181/4 181/5
186/18 189/3 189/24
191/8 191/9 192/12
194/10 194/11 194/20)
195/1 195/10 196/13
198/13 199/17 200/17)
202/6 203/3 204/22
204/25 205/3 207/25
208/4 208/13 209/15
209/20 209/25
business's [1] 5/21
businesses [6] 18/8
111/13 149/9 152/1
153/8 204/4
businessman [1]
16/21
bust [3] 150/23
196/25 196/25
busy [1] 123/9
but [268]
button [2] 176/5
176/5
buttons [1] 57/2
buy [1] 49/1
bypass [1] 120/9
c
cabal [1] 112/13
call [4] 51/20 86/12
118/20 190/2
called [10] 51/14
53/11 76/17 85/21
108/9 108/21 109/19
134/13 176/4 200/15
calls [1] 211/12
came [26] 6/3 6/8
13/21 19/20 19/20
21/14 26/7 33/14
57/14 64/22 71/17
93/15 98/8 98/24
111/23 119/11 132/20
132/25 133/5 133/8
162/25 195/19 200/5
201/3 210/6 210/9
Cameron [21] 21/3
22/21 55/12 59/22
60/23 149/17 167/24
169/21 169/22 169/25
170/1 193/13 197/13
199/5 199/12 202/1
206/3 210/3 210/5
214/11 215/12
Cameron's [3] 55/6
59/8 169/14
camp [1] 96/14
campaigned [1]
196/17
can [135] 1/9 1/18
1/20 2/23 3/2 7/6 7/22
10/4 11/5 12/13 12/18
15/11 16/16 17/8 21/5
24/17 25/19 30/7
30/12 32/1 32/2 34/5
36/10 37/8 38/4 39/15
44/15 44/16 44/20
47/4 47/13 50/24
52/24 56/14 58/9
58/11 59/4 59/11
60/25 65/18 67/8
67/12 76/1 77/18
80/12 81/19 81/21
85/18 86/7 90/8 90/20
90/24 91/2 91/6 91/12
92/18 93/6 95/1 101/7
101/25 102/1 102/21
110/14 111/25 113/2
113/23 114/2 114/8
115/11 117/11 117/19
117/21 118/8 121/17
122/15 135/10 138/21
139/16 140/4 143/10
144/8 147/6 147/19
147/23 148/18 154/1
154/25 156/1 156/3
157/22 160/11 160/23
161/2 165/12 167/20
169/24 170/7 170/9
170/19 171/3 172/16
172/24 173/3 173/23
173/24 178/18 178/24
180/12 181/13 181/17
182/16 182/19 183/24.
184/4 184/7 186/16
187/21 188/6 188/9
188/24 189/9 192/9
195/5 198/24 200/14
203/3 203/6 205/4
206/4 206/11 206/24
211/9 213/3 213/6
214/4
can't [21] 17/2 18/3
21/13 24/10 27/24
38/7 47/7 48/21 49/12
50/25 71/14 72/1
73/18 121/7 160/24
164/3 167/1 169/3
174/17 176/5 211/7
cannot [5] 61/17 95/2! 101/6 136/2 161/23
158/8 179/25 203/22
cap [4] 37/25
capability [3] 7/20
16/1 176/23
capable [1] 202/6
capacity [2] 7/20
16/1
Capital [1] 2/19
captured [1] 8/17
care [6] 35/3 35/4
35/5 35/11 35/13 36/1
career [3] 77/6
116/15 150/25
careful [1] 149/10
carefully [1] 113/25
caretaker [1] 37/4
Carla [1] 180/18
carping [2] 30/24
31/2
carried [2] 97/10
127/16
carry [3] 135/10
144/12 192/14
Cartwright [1]
171/19
case [16] 5/3 36/20
46/4 66/8 73/23 101/4I 142/4 166/11 168/4
115/2 129/14 129/15
131/1 132/23 163/10
163/22 182/10 205/25I 160/21
206/2
cases [14] 20/19
20/22 95/7 97/8 97/15] 2/14 2/22 2/24 2/24
97/18 97/21 97/24
99/7 156/1 158/25
159/21 163/10 171/17I 17/19 18/4 24/6 35/16
cash [5] 12/23 38/19
48/22 139/3 175/15
cashflow [1] 186/18
catastrophe [1]
204/4
catastrophically [1]
203/18
catch [1] 125/9
categories [1] 129/3
category [1] 20/20
caught [1] 162/5
caused [1] 21/22
causes [1] 25/2
CCRC [1] 95/8
cease [1] 67/20
cent [13] 8/8 49/18
49/24 49/24 50/2 50/2I 64/19 66/2 68/23
52/10 54/8 90/9 99/9
99/10 159/21 197/7
Central [1] 114/4
centre [5] 148/7
207/15 207/18 207/18) challenged [3] 45/6
209/17
centres [2] 209/10
210/1
centric [1] 84/6
CEO [7] 17/25 18/5
162/11 180/21
CEO's [1] 14/24
CEOs [1] 194/18
certain [5] 75/5 107/6)
145/9 147/2 178/15
certainly [15] 10/25
31/10 51/11 66/24
79/7 126/22 147/11
150/22 172/9 178/16
181/17 185/14 205/16)
209/9 211/3
cetera [15] 16/25
19/11 22/20 23/11
53/5 57/3 71/9 72/5
107/19 121/24 135/23)
136/14 164/12 164/12)
164/24
CFO [3] 76/4 148/3
170/21
CFS [1] 180/5
chain [3] 24/21
102/12 103/12
chair [17] 6/20 11/14
15/17 28/3 53/24 66/1
80/19 86/4 88/5 100/8)
113/23 134/6 140/5
177/11
chaired [2] 99/19
chairing [1] 99/14
chairman [45] 2/12
3/3 12/11 13/16 13/18
13/19 13/21 17/12
35/20 36/25 39/1 39/6)
58/13 66/8 68/16
68/25 69/6 69/11
81/23 91/2 98/14 99/1
99/14 99/25 113/6
113/20 116/17 135/17)
137/3 137/24 138/3
153/18 157/21 160/23)
161/12 168/22 168/23)
Chairman's [1] 68/21
chairmanship [1]
85/2
chalk [5] 93/20 94/25
96/19 102/25 104/24
challenge [14] 8/19
28/11 45/10 47/22
107/16 159/13 161/1
161/1 163/4 197/20
209/23
challenge’ [1] 40/11
161/3 198/2
challenges [5] 37/20
(60) breaking - challenges
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
Cc child [1] 42/10 192/20 198/3 211/9 I 117/7 122/20 134/8 I 13/4
challenges...[4) {hill [2] 98/20 157/17Iclearing [4] 77/16 I 136/23 146/17 165/5 Icommunications [7]
37/21 67/17 202/13 chilled [1] 158/2 108/17 145/12 154/8 I 167/24 175/3 177/22 I 20/16 34/1 159/7
202/19 choice [2] 120/1 clearly [26] 23/4 180/6 213/25 214/12 I 161/12 162/12 179/9
challenging [5] 9/2 120/19 23/12 23/19 29/24 commas [2] 213/3 179/12
67/13 134/22 160/10 choices [1] 176/24 I 41/23 46/17 46/18 213/6 communities [2]
213/25 choose [1] 189/4 49/25 64/21 77/12 comment [6] 35/23 I 152/1 152/6
chance [2] 46/25 chooses [1] 196/24 I 77/14 95/21 105/21 I 56/24 92/11 131/6 community [1] 150/8
55/24 Christmas [1] 24/18 I 116/23 141/22 141/25) 134/14 142/18 companies [5] 2/11
Chancellor [12] 93/6 Christmastime [1] 146/2 153/23 159/18 Icomments [21] 2/13 35/20 136/13
93/10 93/21 97/4 29/12 I 160/2 160/3 160/15 I 35/25 40/17 41/10 137/2
101/6 102/25 103/3 chronologically [2] I 166/25 183/17 187/11) 41/10 41/13 43/7 company [43] 2/15
416/1 116/10 117/8 67/8 85/15 198/22 65/19 78/24 79/11 2/19 2/21 13/25 17/16)
143/4 158/1 churn [2] 188/7 clients [2] 152/19 79/12 79/14 79/14 17/18 18/6 18/17 19/1
change [25] 7/24 188/11 155/14 79/17 91/15 96/24 19/13 27/1 31/8 37/19)
16/4 25/8 31/17 31/18/C% [8] 56/10 56/15 Iclose [2] 144/16 130/15 156/16 157/23] 39/1 39/3 47/24 48/2
37/25 75/25 84/7 56/17 57/6 57/11 144/23 160/13 161/19 165/21I 54/15 54/15 54/17
1410/14 119/20 119/20! 57/22 57/25 174/9 closely [1] 8/11 commercial [14] 54/22 54/22 54/23
419/22 127/5 128/22 ICM/HIJ [2] 57/11 closer [3] 28/4 54/16 I 40/11 70/22 71/5 72/5I 58/14 64/24 68/19
429/20 131/16 131/19 57/25 174/1 113/10 149/25 150/15I 68/19 69/5 69/16 71/7
4159/2 161/7 162/10 [ClO [7] 72/20 75/10 Iclosing [2] 162/18 I 150/17 150/20 191/9 I 91/16 91/21 99/14
162/16 168/22 176/20) 75/19 77/3 77/5 194/11 194/17 203/20 205/12I 108/4 118/21 137/6
203/3 203/16 180/20 188/16 Cloud [1] 209/25 205/15 137/8 150/11 154/18
changed [5] 89/11 circa [1] 207/14 clue [1] 73/17 commerciality [1] 157/8 159/4 162/14
110/17 121/6 126/5 Iciteling [1] 147/11 Icodification [1] 42/9 203/20
189/12 circulated [1] 44/21 I 67/17 commercially [1] Icompany's [3] 18/7
changed’ [1] 105/15 circulation [1] colleagues [9] 25/2 I 150/4 24/1 134/5
changes [6] 12/21 I 125/13 31/23 68/6 115/7 — Icommissioned [2] _ Icompared [2] 25/21
1407/10 176/18 180/1 circumstances [5] 163/23 163/24 164/4 I 83/15 85/17 196/9
493/17 207/12 134/1 188/10 195/16 I 164/5 194/19 commissioning [1] Icompensated [2]
changing [1] 176/7 196/7 203/3 collectively [1] 49/1 I 83/16 189/5 214/5
chaps [1] 111/10 circus [4] 116/2 collegially [1] 158/7 Icommitment [3] 4/7 Icompensation [79]
Characterisation [1] I 1166 145/6 145/8 colossal [1] 76/3 I 68/9 204/11 5/20 5/22 8/6 8/12
172/13 cited [1] 157/11 colour [1] 43/12 committed [1] 9/5 8/15 8/16 8/21 8/22
citing [4] 12/2 colouring [1] 43/14 Icommittee [56] 8/25 9/3 12/16 12/21
Spare Ty 9420 citizens [1] 112/7 _Icolours [4] 109/18 I 20/11 21/20 22/23 _I 19/22 21/8 21/23 22/2
149/4 164/12 164/17 ICivil [6] 36/23 138/12 Icombative [1] 76/5 I 23/1 59/23 59/25 60/1) 23/4 24/2 42/3 42/15
charged’ [5] 96/13 139/1 139/1 139/11 Icombination [1] 60/2 60/8 60/9 61/6 I 42/17 49/11 51/10
105/8 106/25 143/7_ I 139/20 67/14 67/21 73/3 80/5 80/16] 52/6 53/5 53/23 53/25
143/18 claimant [3] 9/3 combined [2] 46/25 I 80/17 80/18 80/21 54/4 102/4 102/8
Charles [4] 30/6 103/25 173/9 67/16 80/22 81/17 86/5 102/19 102/24 109/22)
169/22 169/25 215/12IClaimants [6] 8/23 Icome [46] 13/18 86/11 88/5 91/2 92/19] 125/1 125/3 135/23
chartered [1] 2/2 9/1 9/9 16/7 213/5 13/22 17/6 17/7 26/3 I 98/15 99/2 99/19 138/13 139/4 139/6
213/19 27/8 32/22 33/17 34/5I 99/24 107/12 107/21 I 139/11 139/14 139/21
chat (2 mses claiming [1] 21/8 39/3 39/4 39/20 48/15) 113/5 113/6 113/15 I 140/1 140/9 140/22
cheaper [1] 75/9 claims [8] 8/9 20/15 I 50/14 51/1 51/8 56/13) 113/18 113/21 113/22I 141/1 141/6 141/14
checked [1] 175/17 21/19 22/10 24/14 57/9 67/10 70/11 80/8] 125/4 125/9 146/6 141/17 142/19 161/15)
checker’ [1] 103/16 35/1 35/24 114/13 85/11 85/13 98/15 147/4 157/21 159/6 I 165/19 166/7 166/12
checking [1] 212/12 clarify [2] 21/5 68/23 I 98/16 106/25 113/11 I 160/20 166/15 166/21I 167/7 167/9 167/14
cheerleader [1] clarity [2] 63/2 117/11 121/11 130/7 I 168/2 180/19 183/22 I 167/16 167/22 168/6
27/11 175/12 132/18 133/16 143/5 I 191/4 210/9 210/12 I 182/20 182/25 183/2
cheque [2] 90/14 Clarke [6] 171/6 143/13 155/1 157/6 I 210/17 211/6 211/11 I 185/9 186/2 186/15
90/18 171/8 171/20 172/2 I 157/14 158/16 162/20) 211/21 186/19 186/20 186/23)
Chief [27] 11/12 54/9 172/13 172/21 163/18 164/1 174/1 Icommittees [3] 186/25 187/7 188/1
58/14 58/20 67/9 class [2] 78/25 112/7I 186/12 192/21 206/11) 112/8 144/22 214/8 I 194/5 195/1 195/2
68/19 68/25 69/3 classified [1] 109/17 I 214/13 Common [6] 57/18 I 195/20 211/22 212/7
69/10 69/20 79/1 clear [25] 16/21 comes [5] 53/16 174/12 174/21 176/14I 213/12
91/22 91/23 118/12 36/19 66/18 69/6 68/21 70/22 154/8 190/7 190/22 competence [4] 82/4
119/18 120/16 136/10 88/16 94/21 95/9 182/1 Commons [3] 93/24 I 82/11 82/13 82/16
1436/19 137/22 137/23} 95/19 105/22 105/23 I comfortable [1] 94/9 102/18 competent [1] 80/20
1443/3 178/22 188/4 121/11 121/21 121/22) 209/22 comms [1] 103/14 I competition [1]
188/18 189/4 193/18 136/9 139/16 171/2 Icoming [20] 5/6 communicated [1] 118/11
206/14 17215 172/7 184/25 I 11/20 61/3 92/9 98/9 I 159/8 complaint [7] 91/5
189/6 190/22 192/3 I 1014/3 113/2 117/6 communication [1] I 91/24 92/4 92/6 92/20
(61) challenges... - complaint
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
Cc concluded [1] 12/5 I 97/15 128/17 conversation [18] 14/5 34/1 90/21 101/8)
complaint 191 106/1Iconcludes [1] 13/7 Iconsiderations [1] 36/4 42/1 42/2 44/25 I 102/1 109/1 114/10
complaint... [2] 106/1/ Concrete [2] 69/22 I 186/1 471117719 11018 I 128/24
complaints [6] 71N2 considered [5] 20/9 I 121/17 133/1 133/4 I corresponds [1] 45/8}
105/25 122/18 123/18I Conditions [3] 50/14 I 63/1 89/17 99/9 133/12 133/13 135/20] corroborating [1]
427/15 127/25 129/2 51/25 182/22 141/11 141/4 143/24 147/9 I 95/10
complete [2] 87/19 conditions/scrutiny Iconsidering [5] 64/8 I 181/2 184/24 cost [18] 9/15 12/23
128/19 [1] 50/14 93/21 93/24 179/12 Iconversations [5] 16/24 18/17 40/25
completely [16] 4/19 conduct [4] 90/5 195/3 55/15 105/1 129/16 I 41/15 48/12 60/14
33/10 34/8 35/6 87/22 171/15 171/22 200/17I consistency [1] 8/22 I 129/17 187/9 77/7 150/25 151/2
88/10 94/23 104/11, [Conducts [1] 27/17 Iconsistent [4] 45/20 Iconvict [1] 103/25 I 151/17 12/7 155/1
414/23 115/21 128/13} conferences [2] 106/6 106/7 201/2 convicted [4] 36/15 I 155/8 195/10 205/17
1428/19 136/20 160/16) 122/1 153/6 consistently [3] 9/3 I 94/21 161/4 161/6 210/2
177/19 183/12 confessions [1] 95/9I 182/9 201/4 conviction [8] 93/23 Icosting [2] 60/14
completing [1] confidence [2] 18/12 I constructed [1] 102/19 157/5 157/13 I 74/1
175/10 58/10 213/22 159/1 163/5 171/18 Icosts [27] 9/8 9/15
complex [4] 78/19 confident [3] 70/24 Iconsult [1] 160/12 211/20 15/23 33/10 38/1
202/12 202/18 203/14 111/14 178/14 consultants [3] 75/4 Iconvictions [18] 8/13) 38/22 38/23 39/13
compliant [1] 48/23 confidential [1] 75/6 83/2 34/11 94/15 95/13 40/7 41/16 41/19
complicates [1] 122/11 consumer [1] 18/11 I 97/9 97/22 103/2 41/23 45/19 52/10
181/19 confirm [6] 1/18 1/20Iconsuming [4] 14/20I 103/18 103/24 104/8 I 60/12 141/2 141/10
complications [1] 91/6 170/7 170/9 14/20 77/17 176/18 I 104/10 126/25 143/6 I 141/11 141/15 142/19)
86/18 183/1 contact [7] 61/25 164/24 182/25 185/17I 148/7 150/17 154/12
complimentary [1] confirmed [5] 63/7 I 62/1 135/9 136/7 186/7 206/9 184/23 194/10 205/16)
125/19 120/7 130/2 145/3 136/7 136/9 136/17 Iconvinced [1] 154/19] 207/14
complying [1] 188/17] 168 contained [1] 171/9 Icooled [1] 89/13 could [94] 1/16 9/13
comprehend [1] confirming [1] contention [1] Cooper [5] 25/4 10/12 14/12 16/17
115/21 122/11 174/14 26/19 52/17 58/1 17/21 20/1 24/19 28/9)
comprehensive [1] conflict [3] 89/7 contest [2] 160/13 191/5 29/7 29/9 36/9 38/25
95/19 184/1 214/7 163/9 cooperate [4] 128/5 I 39/6 43/16 47/11
compression [1] conflicts [1] 3/21 contested [1] 160/14I 128/16 128/20 131/19] 47/21 54/20 55/4 56/7
confront [3] 40/14 Icontext [7] 12/3 cooperated [1] 56/7 56/16 67/1 71/24
computer [2] 97/23 160/4 160/18 13/15 15/2 17/7 128/16 72/4 74/10 76/19
1462/6 confrontation [1] 118/10 134/22 166/1 Icooperation [1] 83/13 84/15 85/11
concede [2] 97/12 159/14 contingency [1] 169/13 85/19 86/10 88/1 88/4,
1459/4 confronted [2] 158/6 I 73/11 coordinated [1] 19/5 I 88/24 90/12 98/6
conceive [1] 178/12 I 1695 continuation [1] cope [1] 203/22 104/21 106/9 106/12
concentrate [1] confused [2] 19/19 I 168/21 copied [4] 102/10 108/22 111/12 111/12)
158/20 100/15 continue [3] 8/11 102/12 103/11 123/3 I 113/1 126/7 127/18
concentrating [1] ICnfusing [1] 144/11) 75/14 205/4 coping [1] 75/24 133/11 138/5 138/9
1498/5 confusion [2] 25/2 Icontinued [4] 18/8 Icopy [1] 30/18 138/14 140/2 140/3
concept [1] 193/19 176/8 135/12 135/14 144/17Icore [5] 137/11 142/23 151/1 151/2
concern [20] 21/6 congratulated [1] continues [5] 8/24 149/16 169/13 193/5 I 151/3 153/20 154/19
21/23 22/14 34/19 149/12 12/18 27/16 41/4 193/6 157/5 157/13 158/17
62/8 62/10 62/11 Congratulations [1] I 196/12 corollary [1] 97/17 158/19 159/2 159/4
64/20 65/11 66/4 66/5I 13/17 continuing [2] 9/15 Icorporate [8] 13/16 I 161/20 164/7 166/18
66/11 70/1 93/19 94/1 conjunction [1] 145/8 14/1 28/12 83/4 136/9I 169/11 170/4 172/5
99/4 114/9 182/4 208/5 continuity [2] 209/15 I 136/18 136/23 138/1 I 173/25 174/4 178/12
490/18 211/14 conscious [1] 155/13] 209/20 corporation [1] 45/5 I 178/23 179/6 179/13
concerned [14] consented [1] 17/15 Icontract [2] 189/9 correct [37] 2/3 2/11 I 179/14 179/20 180/7
22/13 40/21 53/22 consequences [4] 207/11 2/16 2/18 2/20 3/17 I 180/15 185/20 187/18
57/4 59/22 68/5 75/3 11/21 40/8 41/25 contractual [1] 56/18) 10/3 11/4 11/8 13/3 I 187/20 190/2 191/16
83/22 89/19 91/8 111/12 contractually [1] 13/6 18/2 21/4 21/10 I 192/17 193/10 193/25)
95/22 111/5 181/1 consequently [3] 179/10 25/5 25/6 34/10 34/18] 196/20 198/23 199/6
193/1 27/20 28/7 207/17 contributed [1] 37/11 37/15 44/7 201/9 204/2 207/1
concerning [1] 4/12 consider [5] 3/7 207/12 44/13 50/15 57/14 couldn't [14] 5/15
concerns [17] 12/2 47/12 65/20 82/1 contribution [2] 58/24 60/21 83/17 39/18 39/21 76/18
15/8 59/19 72/17 78/3} 134/24 15/19 17/22 91/9 132/11 138/7 158/1 168/24 176/1
78/7 92/15 101/11 considerable [5] control [8] 12/11 138/8 140/24 159/10 I 183/10 183/11 190/8
1402/21 104/20 108/7 29/11 36/23 52/3 88/6) 48/21 60/12 60/17 170/22 188/20 200/20 192/1 195/20 195/22
1411/8 134/17 160/3 89/2 61/8 73/4 80/6 142/15) 208/3 200/8
4177/5 17716 181/11. Iconsiderably [2] controls [2] 9/16 _I corrections [1] counsel [2] 35/3
conclude [1] 12/8 3/25 4/1 107/13 142/14 163/20
consideration [2] convenient [1] 86/12 Icorrespondence [8] Icount [1] 145/25
(62) complaint... - count
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
Cc 78/17 78/22 84/8 87/10 89/24 deduction [1] 190/12Idesigned [2] 203/4
Counties [1] 2/19 84/16 84/18 100/6 de minimis [4] 86/25 Ideductions [1] 190/5I 205/9
country [4] 204/24 101/24 107/1 110/4 I 87/3 87/10 89/24 deeds [1] 145/25 desire [1] 127/8
couple [8] 25/10 110/5 121/22 122/7 Ideadline [1] 146/8 Ideep [1] 107/1 despair [2] 96/8
424/24 172/11 174/7 I 122/18 134/16 136/2 Ideaf [1] 44/10 deeply [3] 10/21 98/22
175/11 193/16 206/13) 137/11 149/2 159/24 Ideal [12] 4/21 29/5 I 10/23 89/10 desperately [1]
21214 160/4 160/5 160/8 I 42/10 54/3 78/3 78/11Idefects [1] 72/20 112/17
courageous [1] 162/10 162/16 82/16 82/23 85/3 _—_Idefence [1] 200/24 Idespite [1] 76/4
444/17 cultures [1] 33/11 I 90/13 164/7 170/18 Idefend [2] 105/14 I detail [16] 6/23 20/6
course [35] 1/25 3/6 ICurrent [9] 12/15 dealing [6] 31/9 41/7 I 210/21 30/13 37/6 52/6 57/12
5/11 14/14 17/8 28/14 20/17 95/20 103/24 71/2 81/7 91/21 defendants [1] 213/2I 59/24 71/14 72/1
36/2 43/21 52/2 52/25I 105/17 110/5 129/24 I 108/11 defending [2] 159/15I 99/23 100/3 107/22
53/18 70/21 73/6 171/17 208/3 deals [1] 136/16 201/6 142/16 160/21 192/25
77/13 81/8 85/10 currently [1] 93/13 Idealt [10] 6/8 72/2 Idefensive [1] 173/15 I 197/2
85/15 102/7 102/14 [customer [1] 200/19 I 72/13 80/10 80/10 _Ideficit [2] 37/23 detailed [8] 19/9 31/5
113/11 116/21 117/8 {Customers [1] 64/10] 131/18 131/18 131/22I 38/17 86/19 90/25 107/18
418/25 123/1 129/10 Icustomers' [1] 62/25) 142/20 158/4 definitive [1] 209/4 I 169/7 182/23 212/5
436/22 138/18 141/16ICUt [3] 148/19 186/17I Dear [2] 15/16 degree [1] 76/23 __Idetails [2] 38/7 135/9
442/13 143/12 149/17I 1959/2 104/23 delay [3] 12/7 12/12 Ideteriorated [1] 40/3
156/21 176/25 198/25Ip ~~~~_~*( death [4] 34/23 46/14 deteriorating [2]
205/18 —_____Idebacle [4] 79/19 _ Idelayed [1] 59/13 I 189/25 191/11
court [10] 96/12 97/7I4am [1] 96/9 107/10 107/19 108/21Ideliberate [1] 184/6 Idetermine [1] 94/4
97/42 103/23 162/25 IDatfoor [10] 80/19 I debate [3] 67/12 deliver [5] 8/78/16 Idetermining [2] 19/4
163/3 163/22 171/23 I 120/1 120/7 124/10 I 198/14 199/18 9/14 13/12 76/19 161/11
185/15 186/9 124/6 124/9 129/25 I debated [1] 195/25 _Idelivered [3] 9/13 _Idetriment [1] 8/17
cover [2] 42/6 208/7 130/17 131/24 145/3 IDecember [13] 11/15] 72/21 77/17 develop [1] 158/5
covering [1] 102/20 [Darren [1] 72/14 17/11 32/24 63/4 93/2Idelivering [2] 9/19 _Ideveloped [1] 76/15
CPO [1] 13/20 data [11] 174/25 93/25 101/4 102/6 I 16/6 developing [2] 68/4
Grane (1) 162/24 175/9 191/22 192/1 I 116/8 156/22 157/25 Idelivery [3] 8/12 8/25I 174/17
Crane's [1] 169/22 I 192/2 207115 207118 I 190/17 207/6 185/21 development [3]
crash [1] 148/2 207/18 209/10 209/17I December 2022 [1] Deloitte [1] 172/24 I 62/4 64/5 64/12
210/1 63/4 delve [1] 28/6 dialogue [1] 173/10
create yt deo date [9] 10/4 19/19 Idecent [1] 151/15 delving [1] 113/13 [104] 3/9 4/1 4/11
created [3] 61/24 I 19/2059/11 86/11 Idecide [3] 13/5 Idemanding’ [1] 44/3 I 6/4 14/9 16/14 16/15
Tyelr G04 105/24 178/15 178/16] 120/22 176/21 demutualising [1] I 22/13 26/2 28/8 28/18}
creating [2] 176/22 I 178/19 decides [2] 1139/3 I 154/24 29/2 29/3 29/5 29/14
177/18 dated [5] 1/12 44/18 I 113/6 denial [2] 160/5 30/2 30/6 35/11 35/21
credence [2] 141/25 I 13/5 170/2 171/14 decision [36] 22/8 I 160/8 52/24 55/13 55/14
142/1 dates [3] 77/7 100/16) 33/15 38/10 46/8 56/6Idenied [1] 144/3 56/15 57/16 71/18
cried [1] 149/4 206/15 58/22 59/5 60/19 —Ideny [1] 116/17 71/19 75/10 76/4 76/9
criminal [5] 6/21 David [1] 87/6 62/16 62/18 65/15 —_ Ideparting [1] 195/4 I 79/15 79/16 79/22
95/12 103/23 171/22 IDavies [14] 60/23 I 70/3 74/11 74/16 department [21] 5/13] 80/11 80/12 80/17
174/23 91/6 91/22 91/25 92/4I 74/24 76/24 77/8 6/5 6/21 7/5 44/14 I 81/24 83/6 87/9 87/15}
crisis [2] 48/2 145/16 92/5 92/19 106/1 78/19 78/20 85/6 45/4 51/2 51/5 51/12 I 87/19 96/22 96/23
critical (6) 11/16 111/3 123/18 127/3 I 95/20 95/22 96/16 I 52/22 61/14. 87/18 I 101/14 101/15 101/16
189/17 192/18 201/13] 103/20 104/14 104/15] 88/13 115/22 116/7 I 101/19 102/23 102/24
uae 48/7 6617 I Davies" [4] 1314/5 105/2 113/16 119/7 I 116/22 132/25 133/6 I 107/22 109/8 109/12
critically [1] 175/6 day [19] 28/4 28/4 I 119/23 134/12 143/21] 133/8 143/10 190/13 I 113/7 118/19 118/20
y 37/14 68/20 68/20 I 176/12 177/2 196/1 I Department's [2] 118/21 121/20 129/12!
or clea Pt 1788 77/18 80/23 80/23 I 213/16 49/17 141/5 129/14 132/24 138/18
criticism [1] 78/21 84/5 96/25 102/1 decision-making [4] Ideparture [2] 16/12 I 138/22 139/1 139/10
crooks [1] 89/12 102/15 106/17 117/25] 56/6 65/15 95/20 188/19 139/19 140/10 143/25)
Crown [1] 95/5 136/17 136/17 144/6 I 95/22 departures [3] 188/3 I 144/6 144/18 145/4
cry [1] 185/2 188/20 214/18 decisions [17] 43/19 I 188/3 188/6 148/4 152/14 154/17
crying [1] 152/16 /4ayS [12] 3/23 22/3 I 58/13 62/25 63/1 64/3Idepend [1] 65/14 I 154/21 155/1 157/16
rying 23/7 25/7 25/23 25/24I 64/9 70/4 70/8 71/9 deposits [1] 38/20 I 158/6 158/8 159/1
Crystal [2] 105/22 I 4aiq 51/18 58/5 117/1I 78/7 84/18 94/23 IDeputy [1] 2/22 159/23 160/2 160/4
cultural [to] 16/10 I, 126/21 154/15 182/13 182/20 182/20Idescribe [1] 134/19 I 160/12 160/12 160/12
79/7 80/24 82/5 82/3 IOBT [13] 3/12 28/23 I 183/3 185/24 described [2] 40/12 I 160/18 161/1 161/1
82/10 82/17 85/9 159/5 181/21 182/19 I decisive [1] 37/1 110/5 161/7 161/8 166/4
85/10 91/16 182/21 182/24 183/4 Ideclined [1] 12/1 description [2] 27/3 I 167/13 175/1 179/19
culture [28] 68/4 183/11 183/19 185/18I decrease [1] 194/8 I 172/11 182/10 185/14 191/7
69/12 70/3 71/2 71/20] 189/10 212/5 dedicated [1] 52/4 Idesign [3] 207/12 I 191/7 191/10 192/13
de [4] 86/25 87/3 dedicating [1] 52/15 I 208/3 208/8 197/20 211/10 212/18
(63) Counties - did
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
D 17/15 25/5 26/6 26/11I discussion [24] 132/18 132/20 134/24I 15/4 16/15 17/21
did... [2] 212/20 26/12 27/10 28/12 44/11 46/23 50/24 138/1 140/15 142/11 I 17/23 19/18 23/15
14/7 28/24 29/12 29/17 51/9 51/10 52/4 52/7 I 144/4 145/12 146/15 I 23/21 24/11 24/20
29/19 30/17 31/13 52/12 53/10 63/4 147/8 148/4 148/24 I 26/3 26/18 27/6 27/11
didn't [70] 3/18 4/2
5/2 5/16 6/14 13/22 I 31/23 31/25 32/1 32/4I 81/20 100/16 111/19 I 149/15 150/24 151/2 I 31/8 32/25 33/3 33/25
22/16 24/4 35/11 32/21 63/6 63/20 123/6 123/8 134/25 I 151/14 152/22 153/23) 35/5 35/18 45/6 47/25)
38/12 39/12 42/6 75/20 75/23 77/21 135/22 139/15 143/13] 154/1 154/1 154/7 48/15 51/1 51/9 51/13
42/16 53/12 54/21 89/4 90/15 99/19 146/23 148/21 178/8 I 154/12 154/17 154/18) 51/24 51/24 51/25
57/20 57/23 72/3 73/2) 100/41 114/4 115/7 178/25 183/19 155/6 155/22 157/14 I 53/8 55/14 58/13 66/7
74/3 76/11 76/21 80/5I 116/22 118/1 120/1 Idiscussions [5] 6/19 I 159/15 160/6 160/23 I 72/11 73/23 80/11
82/15 82/23 83/9 92/8) 120/8 123/3 123/4 102/3 129/5 168/11 I 162/9 165/9 172/5 90/14 96/22 101/12
96/21 99/23 109/10 I 129/23 124/17 124/21I 168/17 172/18 173/14 174/21I 102/10 111/21 113/8
4114/7 128/1 128/4 126/10 131/21 148/10I disgusting [2] 78/17 I 174/24 175/21 176/14] 116/17 121/3 124/10
128/20 129/4 129/14 I 156/8 157/4 162/12 I I 78/22 176/19 177/13 182/19] 125/4 126/3 126/8
1430/7 131/19 133/7_ I 181/12 188/16 dismissal [3] 132/8 I 184/4 185/11 185/21 I 126/16 130/9 133/3
137/25 140/13 144/24I Directorate [1] 192/7I 137/16 138/6 186/2 186/13 187/3 I 143/8 146/17 148/11
159/22 160/6 164/13 Iirectors [40] 25/1 Idismissed [1] 135/24) 189/13 190/25 191/2 I 151/7 153/25 155/25
1466/8 167/1 172/4 25/11 25/12 25/13 disparity [1] 196/8 I 193/6 196/20 197/17 I 156/15 156/24 161/10
17219 172/10 175/1 I 26/4 29/15 30/1 62/1 Idisproportionate [3] I 197/21 198/18 202/24 161/22 162/9 162/15
1475/1 181/17 183/17 I 92/13 62/16 63/8 30/25 54/6 195/11 203/6 204/19 204/20 I 162/19 162/22 163/17
185/23 186/13 189/3 I ©4/13 66/14 66/14 dispute [4] 108/18 I 205/6 205/7 205/24 I 166/14 166/15 167/3
189/21 191/15 192/21I 73/24 87/20 88/15 123/25 124/7 124/11 I 210/41 167/3 174/23 175/3
192/22 192/25 195/12I 88/16 90/10 91/14 disputed [1] 162/3 Idoctor [1] 192/22 176/20 180/9 181/2
196/19 197/6 197/7_ I 106/12 112/6 113/3 Idissatisfaction [2] document [22] 34/5 I 181/22 183/22 189/15)
201/16 203/10 204/8 I 119/9 114/25 115/5 I 26/9 29/25 49/16 61/20 112/3 189/18 198/19 198/25)
209/11 115/9 115/15 115/18 Idisservice [1] 105/16) 112/24 146/20 180/24I 200/13 209/1 209/2
difference [7] 25/12 118/22 121/21 123/22I distinction [1] 167/7 I 197/13 197/14 197/16) 209/4 209/5 210/13
31/25 71/8 86/24 87/8I 124/5 131/7 145/41 distinctly [1] 157/15 I 197/19 197/22 201/21IDonald [1] 30/6
90/23 196/21 147/13 147/24 148/10I distracted [1] 142/5 I 206/10 206/22 206/23I done [41] 13/9 26/5
different [28] 25/20 I 149/1 185/19 distressing [1] 206/23 207/7 208/18 I 30/20 35/19 58/20
GOI6 62/10 72/15 7e/2Itisagree [5] 48/1 I 127/16 208/19 208/25 209/2 I 63/10 65/16 66/9
76/16 81/1 82/1 96/14) 76/21 101/14 162/15 Idisturbed [1] 10/23 Idocumented [1] 66/18 73/15 74/13
412/214 131/12 13718 I 162/23 disturbing [1] 10/22 I 160/3 74/14 75/12 75/13
460/11 189/2 172/20 Idisappeared [1] 79/2Idivide [1] 79/1 documents [6] 85/2 87/14 88/1 107/3
473/19 1772 177/19 Idisaster [4] 72/15 IDivision [3] 95/12 I 144/12 157/11 166/5 I 107/22 114/19 128/7
179/16 181/8 188/10 I 207/19 209/16 209/20I 103/23 171/24 166/12 166/25 212/23I 129/11 130/11 136/18
4195/14 205/8 211/1 _ [disciplinary [1] divvying [1] 185/4 IDoe [3] 61/461/9 _I 136/24 137/25 146/16
21116 212112 212/13 I 130/19 do [150] 1124/5 I 72/7 154/17 174/20 175/14
219/14 disclosed [4] 123/20 I 6/19 13/10 16/23 —_Idoes [21] 32/4 35/19 I 180/3 182/21 184/9
differently [2] 9/13. I 171/18 184/9 197/1 I 25/16 26/14 26/14 I 49/10 63/4 64/2 64/12) 187/14 190/10 190/21
200/12 disclosure [2] 27/2 27/7 27/22 29/14I 78/5 78/8 78/11 92/14] 201/9 204/7 204/20
difficutt [25] 9/1 158/20 172/23 31/2 34/2 36/2 39/5 I 94/3 95/21 122/4 205/7 205/23
26/12 27/8 32/14 Idisconnect [1] 39/8 39/10 40/14 154/7 172/25 188/17 Idoor [1] 187/15
gori7 45/4 a5/i7__I 153/12 40/17 41/12 41/18 I 196/15 199/22 202/25I dossier [1] 111/3
47/5 49/21 62/14 7/9Itiscouraged [1] 42/2 42/16 43/10 205/22 212/21 doubled [2] 173/1
78/6 96/16 99/25 146/17 45/14 48/20 49/11 Idoesn't [23] 27/19 I 173/3
05/2 115/20 134/2, [discredit [1] 147/11 I 55/18 58/9 64/20 _I 48/20 51/22 54/5 79/9I doubling [1] 173/13
143/01 176/18 176/19] tiscredited [3] 36/18] 65/20 65/21 69/9 69/9I 79/20 80/21 99/6 —_I doubt [10] 3/21 55/10
1480/11 192/17 196/4 I 130/20 147/7 70/25 74/14 74/17 99/10 116/2 130/25 I 71/14 80/8 84/13
203/13 204/6 discrepancies [1] 74/21 79/13 80/11 131/1 133/18 148/19 I 90/14 139/24 160/1
difficulties [4] 31/12 413 80/12 81/2 81/17 82/3] 151/14 160/19 160/24 162/9 201/17
48/13 49/3 194/12 _ Idiscriminatory [1] 82/5 82/9 82/15 82/16] 178/1 181/23 203/6 Idoubted [1] 130/20
dipping [2] 25/1 26/1 92/11 85/1 85/22 85/23 204/19 204/20 206/1 Idown [69] 7/12 7/22
dire [2] 154/2 165/3 discuss [6] 30/13 87/21 87/25 90/16 doing [29] 21/18 8/24 9/10 9/17 12/14
direct [1] 140/18 105/20 120/4 120/12 I 91/4 91/14 93/17 94/3I 23/10 23/14 23/19 12/18 14/15 15/9
directed [3] 41/11 181/20 193/19 96/1 96/1 99/12 36/21 48/11 48/25 15/10 16/8 17/12
72/10 82/8 discussed [14] 49/2 I 101/20 103/14 105/9 I 56/25 60/2 68/13 17/21 18/13 19/7
direction [3] 19/13 51/13 57/21 67/16 105/16 105/21 107/14I 68/17 69/18 71/7 19/16 20/3 27/25 34/5)
57/5 65/1 96/4 96/5 121/15 1141/7 111/11 111/14 I 77/20 78/10 79/21 39/20 42/16 44/20
directly [5] 72/11 144/21 166/12 174/23] 111/17 116/18 117/3 I 80/1 81/3 81/9 101/10) 52/24 55/12 56/4 56/6)
78/6 126/16 135/25 I 178/11 178/21 206/18) 117/4 118/1 118/14 I 108/16 127/23 150/7 I 63/25 64/6 75/14 77/1
4137/17 214/11 118/22 119/10 119/10] 159/15 174/25 187/24I 77/4 77/15 81/21 82/6I
director [48] 2/8 2/12) iscussing [3] 9/22 I 120/2 125/14 126/17 I 201/7 209/14 209/18 I 84/11 84/14 85/19
65/4 208/20 128/25 129/8 129/19 Idon't [88] 10/6 14/25 I 86/7 95/1 95/15 98/20}
(64) did... - down
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
D 119/1 180/23 203/12 I 147/7 168/16 204/17 I 183/15 183/16 198/3 I 134/19 145/20
down. [26] 102/07 [earmarked [1] 36/20 I 204/19 206/1 203/10 203/11 204/9 Ieventually [4] 87/15
1097 saat9 138/10Ie4™ [3] 54/25 55/1 elsewhere [3] 48/16 Iensure [8] 8/5 15/23 I 104/15 121/11 191/25
450/18 188/1 187/17 I 5/2 179121 180/7 67/23 148/18 157/8 ever [4] 180/9 184/18
47215 173/1 173/4.. \earned [1] 15/2 email [46] 24/18 —_I 157/19 198/14 199/18] 209/2 209/5
1793. 174/9 177/16 earning [1] 40/2 I 24/21 28/1 30/10 ensuring [1] 95/18 every [9] 45/7 91/24
tart 18015 tort? (ears [1] 44/10 30/18 32/21 44/16 entire [3] 103/12 I 92/43 93/23 111/22
164/20 186/18 186/031¢atth [3] 74/7 98/23 I 55/6 55/9 55/11 55/13) 188/12 200/24 114/18 146/14 153/22
tees 194/11 19918 I 143/25 59/8 72/9 72/13 72/24Ientirely [1] 99/16 I 154/17
49979 200/14 201/14 (easier [1] 147/8 86/2 86/3 86/7 101/14Ientitled [2] 173/21 I everybody [4] 119/18
2oa/t2 207/9 209/16 (easiest [1] 184/4 I 101/16 103/10 104/19) 197/17 168/16 201/8 201/9
downright [1] 162/2 [easy [4] 44/1 48/3 I 106/13 106/16 111/20Ientrusted [1] 152/5 everyone [6] 28/3
downtien Ly 38/17, I 48/7 195/11 111/21 114/3 114/4_ environment [3] __I 32/16 50/15 120/16
dozen [i] 3719 {eating [1] 46/16 117/24 120/10 122/10} 113/12 207/19 208/14] 201/5 213/25
Graft [1] 14zig echoes [1] 84/20 I 122/11 122/13 122/18/equally [6] 26/11 everything [17] 24/6
Grafted [2] 13/23 [education [1] 78/25 I 123/13 123/19 125/14) 29/6 58/1 76/22 108/1I 33/14 42/12 68/20
10316 effect [10] 53/3 135/13 171/4 17115 I 151/9 68/21 70/5 78/8 84/2
dragging [2] 5/24 I 139/20 140/20 142/7 I 17116 173/20 173/28 Iequivocal [1] 181/25 I 85/6 107/24 116/1
rag 165/18 165/18 165/19I 174/5 181/10 181/10 ERIC [5] 1/71/10 I 162/13 164/23 175/15
drama [4] 93/3 97/6 I 168/11 204/21 204/23Iemails [2] 4419 I 17/14 17/19 21/2 I 181/20 203/24 21415
102/90.134)26 effective [10] 8/5 9/8 I 209/4 Ernst [2] 63/11 63/14I evidence [33] 14/21
drew [2]. 15021 9/17 15/22 15/23 Iembarrass [1] erroneous [1] 103/18) 28/10 36/3 46/19 53/2
S082 reg 28/15 64/17 I 141/18 escalations [1] 72/12] 61/10 61/16 70/9 72/8
drawing [1] 1193 I 95/20 161/12 emerge [1] 61/15 especially [5] 38/2 I 81/5 91/7 95/10 97/22
drawn fa] 180/24 [effectively [5] 73/22 Iemerged [3] 63/17 I 68/5 77/2 79/19 19512] 100/10 106/5 118/3
0/23 27/98 d12i24I 160/6 175/13 200/24 I 63/18 119125 essentially [7] 12/25 I 120/6 133/18 135/6
drew [1] 213/12 213/18 employ [1] 144/17 I 87/1 102/6 142/9 I 136/4 143/8 155/17
drive [ty 153/12 [efficient [1] 152/12 employee [3] 78/2 I 208/21 210/18 213/21I 159/3 159/12 164/24
driven 2] aig (effort [1] 37/23 203/21 204/1 establish [1] 28/24 I 169/14 170/15 170/18
tse efforts [6] 44/9 103/9 employees [6] 35/5 Iestimates [1] 186/10 I 171/21 172/14 176/11
drop [2] 196/20 105/17 125/19 125/24I 35/12 35/14 196/9 et [15] 16/25 19/11 I 204/21 206/8
Bond 162/8 197/5 197/6 22/20 23/11 53/5 57/3Iex [1] 110/15
dropped [2] 205/13 egged [1] 158/14 enable [1] 205/10 I 71197215 107/19 exactly [11] 61/5
DOeka eight [1] 164/5 enabled [1] 97/13 I 121/24 135/23 136/14] 79/21 111/23 131/1
drove [1] 23/20 __[eightMnine [1] 164/5 encloses [1] 103/11 I 164/12 164/12 164/24] 137/1 146/16 152/18
duck [1] 28/8 either [10] 22/17 _Iencouraged [1] 85/5 let cetera [15] 16/25 I 155/6 172/6 199/11
due [ti] 125511 I 282340/1 53/9 encouragement [1] I 19/11 22/20 23/11 I 210/18
Tat 3e/2 some s3/taI 124/11 143/20 172/10] 189/10 53/5 57/3 71/9 72/5 _Iexamination [1]
BSS 102/7 100/13. I 175/17 205/23 209/24Iend [25] 3/17 8/9 I 107/19 121/24 135/23] 208/16
TOBIIT 44116 elaborate [2] 130/25 I 48/25 49/19 58/18 I 136/14 164/12 164/12 example [8] 2/14
during [4] 1419/1 132/1 67/21 68/24. 111/12 I 164/24 6/14 6/21 22/8 49/3
eae tedag igs [elapses [1] 146/14 I 114/13 135/7 135/15 lete [3] 103/19 104/2 I 59/12 131/16 197/4
duty [131 34/22 35/3 [election [11] 37/5 I 146/18 156/19 160/11] 105/15 examples [6] 21/14
aay Geb sarit gerigI 41/6 41/9 43/8 51/24 I 160/11 171/2 175/17 Iethnic [1] 81/9 21/15 22/25 24/12
BEDS O77 B/G I 13912 139/13 140/16 I 175/19 175/19 178/6 ethnicity [3] 79/10 I 34/21 146/1
geno 1001 1syiq I 140/22 141/10 187/20I 178/13 183/7 190/24 I 79/15 131/11 exception [1] 121/3
157/19 election’ [2] 138/14 I 195/11 214/3 evaluation [3] 26/7 Iexcess [1] 212/10
dynamic [1] 4519. I 140/11 ended [1] 188/22 I 61/22 61/25 exchange [5] 24/18
dynamics [1} 49/2 [electricity [1] 40/4 [ending [1] 17/8 evaluations [3] 65/21] 30/15 32/21 90/20
dynamics [1] 49/2 electronically [1] ends [2] 95/16 153/4 I 65/22 71/18 106/13
E 180/9 enemy [1] 110/11 even [30] 12/10 excruciating [1]
each 14) 7/12 207 element [2] 160/22 Ienemy*[1] 110/13 I 13/16 14/17 45/12 _I 197/2
Ca Qe I 2a3ie1 energy [2] 19/11 I 58/5 70/3 71/17 71/19I excuse [1] 48/21
earlier [15] 33/4 3a/e [elephant [2] 28/16 I 184/23 73/16 75/6 78/5 78/11) exec [5] 25/1 31/6
e510 61/23 84/21 I 29/3 enforcement [1] 6/15I 79/7 87/10 87/23 _I 60/1 64/23 211/5
T16/5 127/14 139/15 IElliot [19] 81/6 86/14 Iengaged [2] 93/13 I 106/23 116/25 127/23I execs [8] 30/22
4141/4 14577 155/25, I 86/16 86/21 87/2 89/5I 182/8 128/16 135/17 150/22] 30/22 31/7 62/1 109/9
457/17 160/14 188/25] 89/7 89/18 106/20 Iengagement [1] 155/2 157/18 161/6 I 121/19 126/3 126/4
20212 107/11 107/20 108/1 I 32/11 162/2 163/7 163/9 __I executive [76] 2/8
early [16] 6/19 19/14 I 1099/1 122/20 128/12 Jengaging [3] 7/23 I 176/10 194/19 199/23] 2/12 11/13 24/25 2615
248, 28/20 32/5 36/24I 130/15 148/5 162/17 I 16/3 173/8 evening [2] 86/9 I 25/10 25/12 25/13
48/4 51/18 53/18 55/4I 162/17 enough [14] 39/13 I 102/18 25/22 25/24 28/12
63/16 93/4 96/11 [else [9] 118/12 60/12 80/1 95/3 148/5/event [1] 13/10 29/12 31/23 31/25
119/18 120/16 121/1 I 164/20 169/1 180/6 events [3] 52/25 I 32/1 32/4 32/20 46/6
(65) down... - executive
INQ00001189
1NQ00001189
E expensive [5] 77/16 I 131/19 132/4 136/8_ Ifaulty [1] 96/8 final [13] 9/10 27/25
TERI SGUdI 94/23 176/18 176/19 I 145/4 145/24 146/16 Ifavour [3] 120/11 I 51/17 68/5 111/25
executive... 158] 564) 93/14 158/13 167/23 174/23I 124/6 124/8 11213 118/17 144/8
59/12 59/23 60/2 60/8IeXPerience [8] 38/25 I 187/25 201/8 212/4 Ifavours [1] 195/16 I 146/20 170/4 172/11
60/9 61/6 62/6 63/5 70/20 71/11 80/15 212/24 FCA [1] 38/19 183/19 188/3
ea/ie 66/14 6/19 I 83/1 107/16 164/2 factor [2] 71/11 83/2 Ifear [11] 30/21 68/4 Ifinalised [2] 89/14
68/25 69/3 69/10 194/17 factored [1] 12/24 I 70/4 70/6 71/2 71/20 I 114/5
69/20 73/3 76/7 78/1 IexPerienced [1] 77/5 Ifactors [3] 19/3 84/19 111/2 163/3 _I finally [3] 8/18 16/9
78/23 79/8 80/5 80/16I °xPert [6] 55/20 167/10 167/15 163/12 163/12 65/8
80/22 81/12 81/17 I 05/21 55/24 171/21 Ifacts [5] 24/11 fearful [5] 27/20 68/6 Ifinance [4] 178/22
1404/3 104/16 106/12 172/14 195/18 103/17 119/20 130/22) 70/8 71/9 72/6 202/12 202/18 202/22
110/4 114/25 115/5 IexPertise [1] 136/14 I 132/7 February [4] 138/6 I financial [15] 8/3
4115/7 115/8 115/13. exPerts [1] 74/15 — Ifactually [3] 13/24 I 145/7 145/21 207/6 I 9/17 15/22 40/12
415/23 118/13 119/18] €xPlain [4] 74/10 14/11 138/20 FED [1] 108/1 138/15 154/2 183/14
4120/16 123/22 125/12I 75/11 100/25 184/7 fail [2] 73/22 74/4 I Federation [2] 184/4 185/5 193/17
425/25 136/10 136/19] XPlained [2] 72/25 failed [2] 141/22 193/15 200/23 193/18 194/21 195/12
437/23 137/23 143/3 I 1060/7 209/25 feedback [4] 60/10 I 196/4 208/11
447/24 155/19 163/24] €XPlaining [1] 201/6 Ifailings [1] 78/1 73/1 107/7 166/16 I financially [2] 184/3
174/16 175/3 181/12 I€XPlanation [2] 70/13)fails [1] 26/24 feel [21] 3/18 13/10 I 205/11
181/13 194/19 90/25 failure [1] 207/3 35/10 39/13 54/14 I financials [1] 140/13
Executive's [3] 54/9 explore [4] 9/12 failures [1] 207/5 61/16 65/21 70/25 —_I financing [2] 37/21
67/9 189/4 159/25 180/22 197/15Ifair [42] 8/23 9/2 72/3 99/21 111/14 I 37/22
executives [11] 56/1 I@xPonentials [1] 10/15 10/16 10/21 I 112/6 145/17 155/19 Ifind [10] 22/4 26/5
217 91/11 118/20 I 37/25 22/18 22/18 22/19 I 155/21 158/8 158/8 I 35/15 69/3 88/11
4119/2 119/4 153/13. [exposed [3] 41/18 I 23/9 26/23 29/6 32/23] 165/1 189/22 212/21 I 118/12 138/22 147/20
153/16 156/9 188/11 I 148/12 149/6 32/25 33/3 33/4 39/11I 214/3 166/23 212/18
2141/5 exposure [1] 60/24 I 40/22 42/15 48/1 feeling [12] 5/4 5/9 Ifinding [4] 42/21
exercise [9] 18/21 [express [2] 78/2 66/10 69/15 78/18 I 23/9 73/21 74/4 81/14] 108/12 189/20 191/6
tg/22 07/11 97/17 I 104/20 113/23 113/24 147/2 I 89/5 98/25 101/2 _I findings [3] 83/19
408/17 145/14 154/18 exPressed [4] 100/9 I 151/6 161/15 165/19 I 112/19 141/21 201/7 I 83/20 162/3
158/24 171/18 106/22 157/23 212/3 I 165/20 165/22 166/7 Ifeelings [2] 100/9 finds [1] 132/15
exercised [1] 211/17 IexPressing [4] 96/21] 167/8 167/9 167/16 I 137/10 fine [13] 67/3 94/11
exercises [1] 172/23 I 101/17 118/4 137/9 I 169/1 169/12 186/2 feels [4] 25/15 32/16 I 113/19 118/18 122/25
exercising [1] 134/5 [extended [1] 12/6 I 194/24 198/14 199/18) 79/21 117/2 145/24 149/19 166/17
exert [1] 113/23 extending [1] 18/16 I 211/23 213/11 fees [1] 89/2 167/5 167/5 169/13
Exeter [1] 2/25 extension [4] 107/14 Ifairly [7] 28/20 44/24 Ifeet [3] 5/24 22/5 193/2 204/1
existence [2] 210/6 I 128/10 128/12 163/7 I 45/24 66/8 102/5 I 154/25 finer [1] 142/14
210/9 extent [14] 36/1 140/8 177/15 fell [2] 163/10 197/8 I finger [2] 39/16
existing [4] 118/10 I 38/18 59/16 61/2 63/6 faith [1] 146/19 fellow [1] 73/24 39/18
126/23 190/12 190/23) 64/2 72/20 75/5 fall [1] 70/23 felt [26] 5/1 25/25 fingers [1] 114/18
exit [2] 9/23 180/23 I 108/22 145/9 211/9 fallen [1] 44/9 28/9 29/7 31/7 53/14 Ifinish [1] 169/14
exiting [1] 194/2 [external [5] 19/3 falling [2] 115/25 I 57/9 66/7 71/16 74/22 Ifired [4] 84/5 101/22
exonerated [1] 82/23 92/12 1118/5 I 124/19 75/23 82/11 82/13 I 1147/1 125/8
106/25 165/3 fallout [3] 4/4 123/20 I 82/15 91/19 141/23 I firing [1] 189/6
exoneration [15] 6/2 I@xtra [4] 38/1 40/7 I 126/14 158/9 163/13 165/1 I firm [7] 24/16 32/11
33/10 36/15 96/7 128/17 151/4 false [3] 94/3 94/14 I 172/9 181/24 192/11 I 53/19 90/19 100/14
96/17 96/28 98/23 [extremely [3] 134/21 I 94/23 199/23 201/4 210/20 I 118/6 162/23
99/8 103/7 104/6 148/12 149/10 familiar [1] 198/9 I 212/9 firmly [1] 101/23
443/15 143/17 161/15/E¥ [1] 192/2 families [3] 36/17 female [2] 79/3 79/8 first [49] 4/13 5/25
161/18 161/19 F 104/10 205/6 few [13] 7/10 15/14 I 6/5 7/14 13/4 14/5
exonerations [1] I=—. 75, 5 familly [1] 34/23 18/15 22/3 23/6 32/14) 16/16 17/8 17/9 17/10
23/14 face [1] 19/2 fantastic [1] 76/18 I 35/10 58/5 98/9 18/21 23/2 23/24 24/5
exp [1] 37/25 facing [4] 33/1 33/2 Ifar [19] 33/13 44/9 I 126/21 143/4 188/16 I 24/10 24/15 26/1
expand [3] 25/19 125/15 194/13 46/7 48/9 50/11 53/21I 195/8 32/20 37/18 46/23
174/11 183/24 fact [43] 10/13 23/6 I 59/22 73/20 84/6 _Ifield [1] 117/7 49/10 49/15 50/23
expanding [1] 71/1. I 32/5 40/26 44/21 121/17 124/18 134/24 Ifight [2] 123/21 54/2 55/5 62/4 65/25
expect [5]. 44/2 59/11] 55/25 69/1 72/2 73/2 I 145/25 168/4 168/18 I 123/24 84/1 90/24 102/12
eat 73/12 155/5 76/11 80/20 88/22 I 180/1 181/17 184/21 Ifigure [1] 40/7 103/4 132/14 133/20
expected [3] 37/3 I 94/20 105/6 106/14 I 192/25 figures [3] 88/23 134/11 136/6 138/11
62/21 73/5 112/10 112/19 114/11Ifarmed [1] 82/22 90/23 91/1 142/18 171/2 174/9
expecting [2] 14/12 I (16/9 116/14 121/2 farming [1] 84/9 fie [2] 138/25 140/11] 181/16 188/1 185/5
178/15 124/11 126/4 126/19 Ifast [1] 185/21 filenote [5] 42/4 188/4 198/20 201/3
expense [1] 66/17 126/22 128/1 128/5 _Ifault [1] 200/6 51/22 115/4 138/19 I 201/14 203/17 204/8
128/15 129/22 129/25] faults [1] 206/8 138/22 208/25
(66) executive... - first
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
F form [3] 44/2 82/12 I 148/7 170/1 191/11 IG 53/21 70/9 82/14 83/9
aa aaa sag 118/12 fronts [4] 45/6 71/22 I---I 86/12 90/25 100/20
Firstly [4] 36/13 82/16 sormal [5] 46/8 59/10I 72/3 189/25 Gallafent [2] 988 I 01/2 11714 142/1
fit [1] 17918 141/19 134/12 177/24] fruitful [1] 3/5 gallery [1] 14977 146/8 152/5 155/24
fits [1] 32/13 formally [1] 188/22 Ifrustration [1] 29/11 gaps [1] 75/18 169/24 173/25 189/3
five [4] 83/2 97/15 [formed [5] 2°15 I PTSe tt) Gareth [4] 171/14 I 208/17
1426/6 209/15 fuel [1] 40/4 gather [1] 89/8 given [19] 9/1 24/13
fix 9] 47/22 48/24 I 210/24 fuellelectricity [1] oa y fay 21/15 22105 I 46/23 66/13 71/3 81/5
55/20 55/24 58/6 58/7Iformer [4] 91/23 40/4 4/12 43/25 45/23 I 82/7 87/3 87/3 112/12
73/18 77/19 203/26 I 163/23 163/24 197/19I Fujitsu [7] 107/11 I Ean gara> aogag I 128/17 134/1 142/16
fixable (1) 48/23 (forming [3] 24/15 I 17879 178/12 178/14 I Do 4/4g 4146/1 163/21 170/15
fixing [2].77/21 51/16 131/2 180/18 180/21 181/3 I Ge ror s1ei4 174i I 170/18 189/23 211128
1784 forms [1] 208/9 Fujitsu's [1] 178/4 I oo dar fo] 79/1 gives [4] 98/25
flag [1] 44/25 forthcoming [1] fulfil [4] 26/25 32/4 IOOe 140/16 150/18 187/21
43/24 37/4 189/22 giving [7] 21/14
general [8] 2/22
42/19 44/25 155/17
168/8 168/12 187/19
Maaged [2] 45/16 I fortnightly [1] 61/7 Ifulfils [1] 188/8
forward [18] 3/5 9/22Ifull [23] 1/9 13/11
88/23 126/22 150/8
flavour [2] 148/4 155/16 199/12 203/6
eet 13) 7016 70/18 I tog/25 10913 143/5_ I 157/11 161/15 16617 generally [3] 83/12 I Gloves [1] 147/3
flow [2] 181/19 15716 157/14 162/20 I 167/8 167/16 169/24 I erate 144 21/19 [90 [48] 30/2 35/17
481/52 163/18 164/1 186/12 I 186/2 189/22 198/14 ISENETEE Th o7/q I 45/3 48/9 52/18 63/4
flowing [1] 176/22 [forwarded [5] 10/10 I 199/18 208/21 209/20I ee iy 4) 77/2 79/23 85/20
flows [1] 62/9 30/14 122/12 122/16 I 211/23 213/11 ete 89/6 90/24 95/8 101/71
fly [1] 79/9 123/8 fully (8] 5/2272 I sorerous [5] 10/19. I 111/25 112/25 118/11
Feat [13] 35/25 89/2 Iforwarding [1] 28/25 68/18 68/24 IS TS aig I 118/22 118/23 118/25
89/5 89/16 89/25 90/3I 104/24 73/5 89/23 128/16 I 67/16 119/5 119/6 119/8
92/16 103/11 107/25 Ifoul [1] 149/5 functioning [2] 31/24) jenuine [4] 214/2 I 149/19 119/23 120/21
108/2 115/6 171/5 [found [16] 10/21 147/20 genuinely [1] 191/7 I 120/23 121/25 124/13
172/16 26/17 70/10 87/15 fund [4] 183/2209/2 SEPT Bay qajia I 132/6 133/19 136/15
Foat's [2] 89/22 87/24 89/23 90/11 I 204/22 212/7 Wena yoi2a a1(3 I 137/11 148/12 153/6
1047 98/19 132/9 138/18 Ifundamental [11] I 44/93 4777 47/9 47/13] 158/19 161/23 178/15]
focus [7] 7/17 15121 I 138/19 138/24 147/14] 40/24 48/9 80/24 81/4) 45/4 4g)09 agyo4. I 190/6 192/17 192/26
64/15 114/22 127/17 I 157/20 183/14 194/2 I 100/4 101/11 145/15 194/21 199/6 202/15
138/10 166/18 four [18] 21/15 22/24I 177/18 184/1 197/3 I Peageaca rm I 206/2 208/11 206/24
focused [1] 37/21 I 25/23 25/24 27/22 I 208/1 Cee Ons Ona” I 209/14 213/15
32/18 42/22 115/9 I fundamentally [4]
focusing [5] 124/25
4126/1 126/17 126/21 I 115/18 115/24 117/1 I 39/10 116/18 124/2
goes [10] 18/10 73/2
74120 74/21 8118 I 76/00 86/23 120/18
87/25 98/23 104/19
118/22 118/23 126/7 I 1951/7 148/9 159/24 160/21
131/14 134/20 136/12 209/14Ifunded [1] 196/2 I 107/25 114/19 124/12) 464159 oosi1g
follow [6] 22/23 I 127/18 132/2 134/23 I 18
127/4 156/19 185/16 I 212/12 funding [23] 18/15 I 146/13 147/6 147/19 [90nd [77] 1/5 7/3
fourth [4] 9/7 41/21 I 32/15 32/22 33/20 7/10 18/16 22/5 24/1
198/24 212/17 147/19 147/23 151/7
95/11 207/3 39/25 41/11 41/13 26/3 28/21 36/11
followed [3] 135/19 I 95/1 151/12 151/17 154/4
fragile [1] 68/2 41/20 43/18 45/16 46/12 47/12 51/19
186/20 195/14 154/4 154/10 155/5
0 frame [1] 18/23 50/14 84/12 147/25 52/9 52/10 52/18
following [13] 7/18 175/22 180/4 183/9
framework [3] 151/3 I 182/19 183/6 186/4 60/14 61/17 71/16
64/8 89/15 92/22 187/10 191/10 192/1
184/14 184/13 186/8 186/8 187/15 74/21 73/18 74/2 74/7!
97/20 102/19 104/25 192/2 194/3 194/9
frank [2] 44/24 45/21 I 187/25 202/25 204/11 75/1 79/21 82/20
116/10 116/10 157/4 195/12 202/25 204/20
franklopen [1] 44/24 I 205/9 87/11 87/17 90/16
17118 184/11 214/18 209/24 213/2 213/5
frankly [1] 114/20 Ifunds [3] 16/25 36/22 96/19 98/23 101/21
follows [9] 30/15 gets [3] 15/5 59/24
yee gag Fraser [6] 56/17 I 57/24 jets (3 102/7 109/3 112/24
56/22 57/1 58/6 59/2 Ifurther [13] 2/9 22/10I ‘2 4114/6 115/12 116/1
93/11 95/16 103/12 getting [27] 19/19
190/7 35/24 47/8 63/1 97/14 122/24 123/11 125/6
14017 172/17 . 23/12 28/13 30/8 30/9
Fraser's [3] 5/1 59/1 I 97/25 133/19 159/2 125/11 126/15 127/12
foot [5] 46/25 67/19 36/6 46/7 46/24 50/3
162/3 192/25 199/9 200/14 130/4 130/7 132/9
70/16 70/18 70/21 53/15 60/10 66/9
' fraught [1] 40/9 206/4 132/13 133/16 134/23
footing [1] 150/4 : 89/12 96/6 96/10
free’ [1] 171/10 future [14] 11/22 140/4 144/20 146/24
forecast [1] 18/15 100/15 106/10 116/9
Freedom [2] 89/20 I 30/17 108/15 109/16 448/12 151/25 153/23
forefront [1] 153/17 125/9 143/14 154/3
forget [3] 2412 I 89/24 109/19 148/6 158/21 I 75/12 475/14 17/8 I 10/6 156/13 17/1
9 Freehills [1] 213/16 I 202/23 204/11 204/14 178/15 17912 179/24
144/11 197/14 187/24 189/17 195/8
1 freeze [1] 12/3 205/2 205/19 208/4 187/10 187/11 187/18
Forgive [1] 198/25 GI [2] 26/11 116/21
fresh [1] 30/4 208/13 4 190/13 190/15 193/20
forgotten [2] 122/21 give [22] 1/9 10/20
orgee front [8] 1/11 1/13 el aBiis I I 193/21 198/9 203/15
89/16 136/5 144/21 203/24 204/6 204/19
(67) firstly - going
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
G 14/23 44/17 46/12 48/19 half [5] 18/7 40/1 83/19 85/17 89/11
going... [4] 206/10 GP [1] 192/21 49/25 51/4 51/4 51/21) 60/9 98/6 99/12 89/23 91/25 92/1
209/14 210/1 211/16 Granada [2] 2/8 52/19 52/22 53/12 halfway [2] 18/13 92/21 94/24 95/8
gold [4] 196/24 70/17 53/22 53/24 53/25 180/15 95/18 97/3 97/13
olf [1] 3/6 grant [12] 15/1 44/5 I 55/25 56/16 58/20 Hamilton [2] 97/20 I 97/17 105/15 107/7
one [12] 13/17 52/24 54/20 54/24 59/10 60/23 60/25 103/24 110/16 113/6 114/12
rn 45/6 50/22 82/20 83/10 83/13 61/4 61/6 63/7 72/25 Ihand [5] 25/22 25/23 I 118/3 120/20 121/6
73/20 76/13 96/20 151/12 151/13 151/15) 72/25 74/11 74/16 40/6 150/4 151/8 121/10 121/11 123/3
116/18 136/23 184/17 151/20 74/18 74/19 75/7 handle [1] 41/23 130/3 130/18 138/23
184/18 184/19 granted [2] 128/12 I 76/17 79/7 80/7 80/15) handled [2] 99/24 140/6 145/3 146/16
163/7 81/17 87/6 87/7 87/18) 125/3 148/7 151/21 154/9
008 eT) bate (granting [1] 16/6 I 87/2388/11 89/7 handling [1] 114/25 I 156/3 156/18 164/19
23/19 30/10 39/11 grateful [3] 96/25 89/13 89/14 91/6 hands [7] 75/1 81/6 I 165/3 170/12 177/1
40/21 47/10 52/14 169/9 199/11 91/12 92/11 92/16 91/17 116/12 146/7 I 178/4 178/16 181/16
52/22 64/5 64/23 73/4 Gratton [8] 112/13 100/19 101/10 101/13) 146/11 146/12 185/25 187/25 191/24}
82/25 83/3 114/16 117/1 119/17 120/15 I 101/19 102/24 104/15Ihands-on [1] 81/6 194/6 196/16 196/25
417/19 142/12 148/15) 121/2 128/21 147/18 I 105/24 106/24 107/12IHang [3] 99/16 146/4 I 201/24 202/23 204/17,
150/16 152/10 156/11) 148/15 107/20 109/6 109/9 I 165/25 205/7 205/22 205/25
469/15 169/20 193/13I9"eat [3] 6/23 54/3 111/2 111/3 113/25 Ihappen [4] 83/4 207/25 209/13 209/25
goodness [1] 48/4 170/18 115/4 115/9 115/15 I 122/4 132/16 147/14 I 211/18
jot [39] 6/16 29/5 greater [4] 35/13 115/17 115/19 116/7 Ihappened [33] 5/5 Ihasn't [3] 73/15
a8 41/23 55/24 66/2 71/5 149/25 116/15 119/1121/5 I 14/13 35/10 39/1 203/9 209/19
56/23 57/2 63/10 greatest [1] 195/18 I 121/23 122/5 122/12 I 57/13 63/8 74/22 79/3I hate [1] 158/10
70/13 74/19 75/6 green [1] 203/5 122/12 122/19 123/6 I 87/18 88/13 92/15 have [308]
80/21 81/2 91/17 grip [2] 39/13 41/19 I 123/8 124/8 125/7 118/9 120/14 124/16 Ihaven't [10] 42/5
99/16 99/21 99/25 ground [1] 213/14 126/4 126/6 126/25 I 128/19 137/2 145/23 I 46/7 58/5 98/15 98/16)
104/14 116/12 141/21/9rouP [21] 2/8 8/14 I 126/25 127/25 128/4 I 156/4 165/24 168/21 I 111/21 128/11 141/21
146/5 151/13 151/15 56/4 56/5 59/12 62/6 I 130/16 132/18 133/4 I 172/6 180/10 188/25 I 157/12 162/20
154/6 166/22 176/18 73/16 76/6 78/1 78/23I 134/18 135/17 136/7 I 189/16 191/9 191/24 I having [23] 17/14
1480/1 181/19 183/6 84/3 115/8 115/23 138/3 138/6 138/6 200/6 200/9 200/11 I 21/21 21/23 22/9
186/17 186/18 191/12 174/16 175/3 177/7 I 139/2 139/10 139/18 I 201/11 201/12 201/14) 31/19 35/25 43/10
191/21 193/16 195/13] 177/11 178/22 178/25I 140/21 141/5 141/10 I 214/5 45/21 48/5 63/5 76/13
197/5 197/6 203/12 I 200/1 200/12 141/11 143/5 143/24 Ihappening [15] 24/9 I 76/21 77/8 84/2 95/25)
213/17 group-wide [1] 84/3 I 148/3 155/15 157/8 I 53/20 54/9 61/13 69/8I 108/23 116/18 130/13)
groups [2] 9/3 62/9 I 158/24 159/5 161/10 I 80/6 96/12 116/8 140/14 143/24 157/10)
oe tal growing [1] 93/19 I 163/3 163/5 163/5 I 119/6 142/6 172/8 I 195/1 209/17
Bis 33/16 55/7 [Guess [7] 18/3 38/12 I 164/23 164/23 165/18] 174/15 175/9 175/24 IHCAB [3] 93/24 94/8
55/19 55/22 59/10 38/13 61/5 113/16 165/21 165/22 165/23) 176/24 94/12
60/1 62/2 67/25 73/14) 187/16 196/17 168/21 171/13 174/20I happens [3] 27/18 Ihe [140] 10/1 14/14
83/11 103/14 126/21 ISuidance [1] 110/4 I 175/8 175/21 177/10 I 145/15 147/15 19/20 20/24 23/7 23/9)
156/12 173/21 177/5 ISuide [1] 58/15 177/13 177/16 179/5 Ihappy [2] 3/5 86/12 I 24/23 25/7 25/15
177/25 181/10 guilt [1] 95/10 179/11 179/17 180/3 Ihard [18] 31/22 44/8 I 25/15 25/16 25/17
guilty [19] 91/17 180/18 180/22 181/9 I 45/24 46/5 46/6 26/14 26/16 26/19
governing [1] 177/7
government [50] 94/20 98/11 98/17 182/24 183/13 184/12) 116/25 153/20 178/10) 26/21 26/24 27/16
5/24 15/3 17/1 27/1 I 98/19 98/19 100/2 184/12 184/17 184/18) 178/11 187/13 193/19I 27/17 27/18 28/2 28/4I
27/19 28/13 33/8 34/1I 105/8 108/3 108/12 I 184/22 184/24 185/15) 193/23 194/1 194/5 I 28/9 28/9 29/5 29/7
37/1 40/9 43/11 54/21I 149/3 157/9 157/9 185/18 186/22 187/8 I 195/17 196/17 209/4 I 29/7 31/4 35/4 36/3
54/23 67/24 94/1 157/20 157/20 160/6 I 187/17 189/9 189/11 I 210/21 44/1 44/3 44/8 44/8
94/22 95/18 96/16 162/21 164/12 164/17I 190/9 190/15 190/24 Ihard/pushy [1] 45/24) 45/5 46/12 46/13
103/22 104/5 105/2 gut [1] 61/16 191/1 191/8 191/17 Ihardly [4] 192/3 46/18 46/20 47/8
4134/4 137/9 138/14 ISuys [1] 160/23 191/22 191/25 192/1 Inardware [1] 203/16 I 47/12 47/13 52/22
438/21 14118 14372 [~~ «192/18 192/18 194/19] Harrington [2] 19/12 I 54/25 56/10 57/3
196/2 198/13 199/17 I 52/17 58/18 59/8 60/6 60/18
143/22 150/12 151/12I-— > aa
451/21 152/9 152/11 INad [212] 3/13 4/20 I 199/25 200/4 200/6 Ihas [94] 1/23 7/14 I 69/23 76/3 77/6 78/3
4154/9 16/6 181/16 4/20 5/5 6/17 10/9 200/9 201/9 205/15 I 11/23 20/1 25/16 78/6 78/9 78/9 79/20
186/16 196/15 196/16 14/10 14/13 15/6 209/11 210/19 211/1 I 25/22 27/18 28/2 28/5I 86/4 86/8 89/6 89/8
17/19 17/24 18/6 18/6) 211/15 212/6 212/16 I 29/18 29/19 30/25 89/13 90/12 90/21
196/19 196/22 202/3
18/8 19/1 20/8 20/16 Ihad a [1] 81/17 32/3 39/20 39/22 93/10 93/23 95/4
202/4 202/11 202/21 I 59/48 20/20 20/20
hadn't [17] 5/3 5/15 I 43/16 45/5 52/2 53/6 I 99/20 99/20 102/24
ene eo. 208/7 I 20/21 23/23 25/10 I 13/15 15/6 51/16 I 55/9 59/12 59/13 102/24 105/9 107/9
Government's [1] I 204 29/7 33/10 33/11] 64/21 96/5 100/25 I 67/13 67/18 72/18 I 107/20 108/2 109/8
sven 33/12 33/15 35/9 I 101/21 175/17 175/18] 73/14 73/15 73/17 I 109/10 109/10 110/16
overnments [1] 36/17 37/18 37/22 183/12 183/15 185/7 I 76/3 76/5 77/25 78/3 I 113/9 114/5 114/8
9 37/23 38/8 39/1 39/13I 190/20 198/2 204/7 I 78/9 78/24 79/5 81/12I 115/9 120/4 122/20
(68) going... - he
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
H 26/18 26/20 86/10 213/25 176/21 178/13 179/13] ]
he Teal 199/94 I 143/23 172/18 209/8 Ihimself [1] 27/17 179/21 180/6 1181/4. I
he... [54] 122/23 . 7 l absolutely [1] 165/7
122/24 123/9 1239 [helping [1] 191/23 Ihire (1) 2/14 183/11 202/9 203/10 I) oocent [4] 26/13
helpline [1] 122/2 his [39] 16/11 20/25 I 204/4 204/16 206/8
oan beret jon. HENRY [28] 1/7 1/10 I 26/19 26/25 28/6 31/5I 207/2 207/11 208/8
130/16 130/16 130/18I 2/8,15/16 17/14 17/19] 31/10 35/23 35/25 208/14 208/21 209/13
130/19 130/20 132/13] 24/24 26/23 29/4 45/17 46/18 47/9 209/21 209/24
137/19 138/12 138/23I 44/23 45/1 45/5 52/23) 48/18 69/24 69/25 Horizon/Inquiry [1]
140/11 144/3 144/4_ I 111/13 118/16 130/9 I 70/12 76/6 78/1 79/3 I 45/19 lagreed [3] 31/11
156/18 156/20 157/16] 81/23 86/7 87/4 89/25I horrific [1] 79/18 Ff
144/6 144/24 145/4 74/7 189/15
163/15 164/3 186/14 I 103/9 107/6 107/11 I horrified [3] 52/8
162/4 162/5 164/3 lalso [5] 32/9 34/22
186/24 197/11 197/12I 107/14 110/15 114/5 I 53/3 96/6
164/11 167/25 167/25) 94/25 160/14 173/24
215/2 215/8 215/18 I 114/6 114/11 115/2 Ihorror [1] 161/18
168/1 168/1 171/7 ‘ lalways [1] 211/15
Henry's [1] 130/13 I 120/18 142/13 164/4 Ihost [1] 151/9
171/15 177/16 177/18) Tam [10] 2/24 11/10
her [19] 11/1 43/5 164/4 187/22 211/19 Ihours [1] 153/7
185/6 185/6 185/22 27/19 28/14 30/11
186/24 186/25 187/21I 43/6 53/14 92/20 98/9I 211/24 house [6] 74/14 32/5 94/23 95/21
1489/3 189/5 189/6 133/8 141/19 162/24 Ihistoric [6] 4/4 4/12 I 74/17 74/24 93/24 108/19 187/9
189/6 189/6 189/8 163/4 163/4 163/6 8/4 8/7 57/18 67/18 =I 94/8 102/18
-, . I appreciate [2]
1489/8 189/9 189/9 163/8 163/10 163/11 Ihistorical [6] 7/25 housed [1] 207/17 83/24 139/17
l accepted [1] 198/21
laddress [1] 37/6
ladmit [1] 127/20
lagree [4] 32/9
196/14 204/15 205/20)
189/11 189/14 188/12 189/18 189/18] 8/13 16/5 20/2 186/6 Ihow [70] 3/2 4/24 6/8 lask [6] 1/16 84/15
. 206/19 191/4 24/9 26/11 27/20
he's [11] 31/7 43/25 . 117/11 121/19 170/4
Herbert [1] 213/16 Ihistory [5] 12/15 28/13 31/14 33/11
68/22 69/2 78/5 79/21 193/15
80/20 99/21 122/23 here [34] 5/17 11/6 I 28/13 67/14 207/24 I 43/5 50/15 54/10 lasked [3] 89/3 98/9
147/7 150/24 21/5 22/21 23/17 209/11 54/25 54/25 55/1 212/22
24/22 44/12 56/24 hits [1] 35/18 56/20 59/17 60/16
headhunters [1] 3/12 wage lassume [8] 49/13
headi 58/5 60/12 71/5 79/22Ihitting [1] 185/5 64/7 64/12 64/17 65/9
eading [3] 7/14 93/13 93/18 93/23
81/21 206/25 80/25 87/7 90/15 HMG [1] 202/17 65/20 69/19 70/20 100/16 147/11 181/3
heads [1] 68/6 96/12 112/17 115/14 IHMT [1] 50/15 73/18 73/19 79/20 187/23
117/2 121/1 123/19 Ihobble [4] 51/24 81/6 81/8 84/8 85/10
health [1] 195/13 138/9 140/14 145/13 I 138/19 139/2 141/10 I 98/22 110/14 114/15
hear [10] 1/5 15/8 146/1 148/22 151/5 Ihobbling [1] 43/8 117/12 121/22 124/4
23/8 29/22 53/12 78/8) 154/17 155/14 157/18)hold [4] 51/23 61/18 I 125/18 131/10 134/15
headwinds [1] 19/9 l assumed [1] 36/20
Ibe [1] 139/16
I believe [6] 11/16
1219 46/14 91/14
164/19 oliday [1] Ibut [1] 80/12
heard [25] 6/7 14/21 hesitation [1] 163/6 IHollinrake [4] 18/1 153/14 153/20 156/1
i Icall [1] 190/2
19/8 78/24 79/11 hiccup [1] 121/12 19/17 136/8 146/25 I 159/7 161/2 163/12
lean [8] 32/1 52/24
79/12 79/24 109/6 IRidden [3] 60/25 I Hollinrake's [1] 163/22 163/24 164/14] er a eG
7714 81/13 146/22 172/24 174/18 174/18
115/13 18/3 12016 I 77/14 4188/9 198/24 211/9
Higginbotham [1] _ Ihome [2] 111/7 17719 179125 196/8 .
125/17 131/13 134/9 lean't [12] 18/3
135/25 136/3 141/22 I 47/5 155/15 196/10 198/13 199/17) 94143 97/24 38/7
high [4] 43/16 50/13 Ihonest [4] 6/17 49/12] 199/24 204/5 209/10
143/8 144/24 144/25 49/12 50/25 71/14
1017 172118 62/12 186/24 211/10 21216
161/18 163/8 164/10 I," 72/1 1241/7 169/3
tert 219/3 higher [2] 40/7 98/4 Ihope [2] 13/8 147/7 Ihowever [9] 125 I 194747 76/5
highest [2] 32/12 {hopefully [2] 13/10 I 18/17 19/1 30/20
hearing [9] 36/2 49/5 I cannot [2] 158/8
63/24 165/12 37/25 40/13 159/3
ons a8 roam 4 [highlight [4] 10/13 IHorizon [78] 4/18 I 179/15 198/5 I cortainly [2] 17219
214/18 110/12 207/1 207/23 I 5/19 7/23 16/4 34/7 IHRC [5] 20/9 20/10 I soa,
heart [2] 153/3 highlighted [4] 69/24I 36/13 36/19 38/2 190/14 210/24 212/20)‘ cratlenged [1]
164/25 124/24 171/13 188/4 I 38/22 41/16 42/6 HSS [9] 23/11 182/25 161/3
heartrending [1] highlighting [1] 42/23 43/1 43/2 43/19] 185/19 186/4 21016 I ong [41] 91/6
164/25 111/18 43/22 45/19 49/19 I 211/20 21216 213/15 I, Consistently [1]
heated [1] 89/12 {highly [3] 94/18 57/24 58/22 78/20 I 213/22
heavily [1] 1795 I.97/11 105/6 79/19 80/4 81/2 81/11IHub [1] 180/8 I could [16] 10/12
heels [1] 33/9 Hid [4] 56/19 57/11 I 86/18 88/2294/8 I huge [17] 14/25 15/3 I ‘ato ‘09/9 39/05
57/22 57/25 97/23 99/11 108/16 I 16/25 29/3 39/2 39/19)
held [14] 75/21 88/2 I >
137/h0 442/20 149/3 Ihim [28] 28/9 31/8 I 138/13 139/4 139/6 I 79/7 105/16 126/19
44/2 46/17 49/8 58/4 I 139/12 139/21 140/10I 141/8 149/8 149/9
teeta Teno sean 68/21 70/19 78/2 140/23 141/1 141/12 I 155/7 156/8 184/22
164/16 164/18 164/21 103/8 109/12 109/13 I 141/14 142/19 144/18) 196/24 210/23
help [3] 31/19 68/9 117/4 122/23 127/16 I 150/22 150/23 154/4 Ihugely [3] 33/7 96/15
201/8 130/16 144/3 147/4 I 154/10 154/11 160/16) 96/25
helped [1] 201/8 157/18 158/7 160/14 I 162/4 163/10 168/16 Ihundreds [2] 94/15
helpful [7] 26/15 161/21 185/3 186/15 I 171/9 171/12 175/23 I 108/23
187/4 187/6 187/7 176/13 176/15 176/19
54/20 56/7 56/16 72/4,
74/10 88/4 98/6 140/3,
153/20 166/18 190/2
192/17
I couldn't [6] 5/15
39/18 39/21 158/1
168/24 192/1
I did [32] 3/9 14/9
16/15 29/14 30/2
(69) he... - did
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
I 153/6 187/1 188/10 188/12 I 84/10 96/6 96/18 121/4 121/7 121/19
aid. 27] 321 I! Got [5] 63/10 74/19 I 195/7 197/5 203/11 I say [25] 14/11 22/5 I 121/20 122121 123/9
s5/14 75/10 80/17 I 75/6 191/12 195/13 I 205/13 209/8 209/14 I 23/6 23/13 27/8 29/14] 124/10 125/17 126/4
96/23 101/16 101/19 I! guess [4] 18/3 61/5 I 210/23 212/11 212/18) 31/11 33/8 33/19 126/5 126/8 128/13
407/22 113/7 118/20 113/16 187/16 I meant [3] 125/24 34/21 39/18 42/22 128/25 129/22 130/12)
I had [13] 26/4 37/18 I 173/13 173/16 51/15 51/22 52/18 139/2 142/1 142/9
129/14 138/18 138/22)
1439/1 140/10 154/21 I 98/20 111/2 113/25 II met [2] 5/15 36/23 I 53/11 78/18 83/8 88/3) 142/12 142/17 143/15)
157/16 158/8 159/23 I 1195/4 125/7 136/7 I might [1] 142/17 92/12 131/12 135/5 I 144/24 144/25 145/9
160/12 160/18 161/1 I 190/24 192/1 192/13 II missed [1] 10/5 145/11 149/13 161/18] 145/10 145/12 145/22
461/1 161/8 191/7. I 2191/1 211/15, I need [2] 63/15 I see [1] 200/10 145/22 146/9 146/22
492/13 212/18 I hadn't [6] 5/15 122/22 I sent [4] 123/1 147/3 148/23 150/16
I didn't [32] 3/18 4/2 I 19/1551/16 64/21 II never [1] 22/3 Iset [1] 198/20 150/17 150/18 150/19
24/4 38/12 57/20 72/3} 96/5 100/25 Inot [1] 131/10 I shall [1] 128/10 151/8 151/12 152/8
74/3 76/11 76/21 83/9)! hate [1] 158/10 lought [3] 68/15 —II should [3] 44/25 I 152/11 152/14 153/15
96/21 111/7 128/1_ILhave [20] 11/16 189/5 192/12 120/17 141/14 184/25 155/10 156/7
128/4 128/20 129/4 I 12/12 25/1061/15 _II particularly [1] Isigned [2] 13/23 I 157/16 157/16 158/4
77/5 89/17 93/19 209/1 14/10 158/10 164/18 165/6
129/14 130/7 131/19
140/13 1986/8 172/4. I 110/18 128/9 131/25 II presume [1] 51/8 II simply [1] 198/2 I 166/5 167/23 167/23
47219 175/1 1785/1 I 132/24 141/22 149/16II pulled [1] 88/17 —_II sit [1] 17/18 17214 176/17 177/12
185/23 189/21 192/21) 149/22 12/8 155/12 II put [4] 21/10 74/4 II spent [2] 153/19 I 180/3 180/4 181/6
92/22 198/12 19716 I 196/13 208/25 212/23) 107/22 141/13 154/15 4181/9 181/12 181/15
200/11 212/24 I quoted [3] 129/22 II started [1] 3/21 181/18 181/23 182/17
Ido [10] 25/16 26/14 I! haven't [4] 58/5 I 159/20 166/6 I still [1] 128/13 182/21 183/7 183/21
403/14 1085/9 111/11. I 128/11 141/21 157/12II raised [2] 21/10 _II stopped [1] 178/17 I 185/12 185/14 187/9
450/24 152/22 154/18! hear [1] 164/19 I 42/11 I suspect [2] 32/16 I 187/25 188/4 188/9
486/13 205/7 l initially [2] 3/7 Iran [1] 47/24 189/9 189/16 191/8 191/10
I don't [49] 10/6 427/11 Irang [2] 119/9 130/6II suspected [1] 191/17 193/8 195/14
1405 15/4 1615 ILissued [2] 166/6 II read [1] 189/16 172/10 195/15 195/19 195/24
47/21 17/23 26/3 166/12 Irealised [1] 28/20 II take [3] 154/17 197/25 199/2 200/2
26/18 27/6 47/25 51/1I!Joined [8] 57/20 IIreally [2] 156/17 I 165/12 197/2 203/8 205/21 209/8
51/13 55/14 667 I 29/6 79/8 100/21 192/16 Italk [1] 190/4 210/10 210/22 21213
Joi 73123 90/14 I 172/9 173/5 191/18 I I recall [2] 19/20 60/3]! talked [1] 35/16 I 212/8 212/11 212/18
96/22 101/12 102/10 I 209/3 Ireceived [2] 37/3 II then [1] 123/10 _ I 213/15 213/23 214/7
116/17 1214/3 124/10 Itiust [24] 2/23 16/17 I 52/1 I think [201] 3/13 5/9 II thought [42] 3/20
4125/4 14378 149/11 I 21/5 29/4 31/18 35/18] recognised [1] 14/22 14/25 15/4 15/5] 4/8 4/18 5/23 6/1
153/25 156/15 156/24I 39/12 42/5 42/18 I 31/14 18/25 20/18 21/3 22/3I 10/18 15/7 15/9 21/11
462/18 162/22 166/14] 53/14 68/18 69/4 75/7II referred [1] 33/4 I 22/13 22/21 22/21 I 21/13 29/23 31/16
166/18 167/3 16713 I 75/8 90/8 92/18 96/19I1 remember [2] 22/25 23/8 23/9 23/17) 33/5 35/1 35/2 35/6
174/23 175/3 10/9 I 122/5 142/25 18/4 I 187/18 203/19 23/20 24/4 25/4 26/10) 35/12 35/13 48/4
181/2 189/15 1a9/18 I 158/8 159/22 164/7 II replaced [1] 188/13 I 26/16 26/17 27/9 53/17 54/18 58/17
4198/19 198/25 200/13) 192/9 Ireplied [1] 103/8 I 27/13 27/13 30/3 30/8I 80/14 85/14 89/13
209/1 209/2 209/4. I! Kind [1] 142/13 I represent [1] 31/4 31/6 33/4 34/12 I 96/18 98/13 104/9
209/5 210/13 I knew [2] 120/18 I 149/23 35/21 37/12 40/19 I 143/19 143/23 151/1
doubt [1] 139/24 I 127/12 Iright [1] 106/14 I 40/20 40/22 4113 I 168/17 175/6 177/24
drew [1] 21a/12, I! Know [7] 32/1 76/12] rudely [1] 142/3 I 41/15 41/18 44/5 182/9 189/3 189/5
lexpect [1] 66/1 80/11 144/3 146/14 II said [53] 14/9 29/6 I 44/17 45/2 46/16 189/7 190/19 191/5
l explained [1] 72/25 I 195/24 172/15 31/16 37/18 40/23 I 46/17 46/20 48/3 48/7) 201/15 210/21
fear [1] 30/21 Hook [1] 9/22 44/17 41/22 41/24 I 49/15 50/4 51/16 — I to [1] 71/3
I feel [2] 145/17 Hooked [2] 150/25 I 43/3 43/18 47/24 I 51/21 52/8 52/16 __—II told [2] 115/8 149/8
158/21 154/16 47/25 58/4 60/7 63/13] 52/16 54/13 55/14 I took [3] 3/9 33/5
Heit [9] 5/1 57/9 66/7I! made [3] 65/13 64/21 75/3 79/9 80/14) 56/10 58/17 60/17 I 90/19
481/03 1685/1 181/24 I 190/15 210/17 81/16 85/4. 90/13 I 61/2.61/14 62/12 _I totally [3] 101/14
I may [6] 20/6 112/4 I 90/17 96/14 96/23 62/19 68/15 68/15 107/5 162/22
129/3 150/20 156/19 I 99/5 99/9 100/13 70/14 71/15 72/25 I touched [2] 70/1
166/25 1191/9 111/9 111/17 I 73/23 81/5 81/11 84/4
I mean [38] 6/23 118/18 118/23 119/7 I 82/25 84/1 84/3 84/10II tried [2] 128/2
21/10 24/6 25/20 119/10 119/22 120/2 I 84/14 85/3 85/3 85/23) 128/15
38/25 39/6 40/20 122/4 122/20 122/21 I 86/4 87/20 87/20 Itrust [1] 214/12
51/13 51/22 52/1 54/7I 122/25 127/16 128/7 I 87/24 91/19 93/2 93/8)I trying [1] 116/23
60/16 73/11 121/4 128/10 132/14 140/13) 99/24 101/16 104/19 II understand [4]
121/25 153/19 153/21] 143/24 146/6 149/9 I 106/17 108/13 108/25] 115/1 134/1 165/5
153/22 153/22 154/15] 153/15 159/23 185/3 I 109/7 109/13 109/24 I 193/17
162/8 176/17 183/6 I 192/15 110/15 111/16 113/12I1 understood [4] 69/8)
183/25 184/6 184/25 II saw [5] 14/14 66/10 I 116/24 119/5121/2 I 72/6 109/13 209/10
192/11 210/20 212/9
I focused [1] 37/21
I formed [1] 22/5
I found [5] 10/21
70/10 138/18 138/19
138/24
I fully [1] 73/5
I gather [1] 89/8
I gave [4] 21/15
22/25 24/12 125/18
I go [3] 35/17 121/25
(70) did... -Tunderstood
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
lused [1] 21/11
I voted [1] 119/5
I want [12] 7/2 30/17
90/13 111/22 119/7
144/9 158/16 158/20
166/3 167/6 197/15
198/6
I wanted [6] 31/14
42/7 43/6 70/19 75/9
107/23
I warned [1] 147/14
Iwas [107] 2/6 2/22
3/1 3/5 3/6 3/17 4/19
10/10 19/19 29/22
30/10 31/17 36/25
37/3 42/19 43/21
§1/21 53/11 55/23
57/8 60/10 69/5 69/7
70/23 73/10 73/11
75/2 75/3 81/6 81/9
83/9 83/10 86/9 96/5
96/8 96/14 98/22
100/20 101/2 101/22
102/10 104/25 106/6
107/18 108/25 109/10}
111/14 1114/7 114/23
115/17 117/1 119/3
119/12 120/13 121/25)
125/23 127/21 127/22)
127/23 127/23 128/5
128/12 129/4 129/15
130/3 130/7 131/10
132/5 132/13 136/12
136/14 136/19 137/2
137/25 140/8 141/9
142/5 142/7 142/15
143/15 143/22 144/4
144/11 153/16 153/22)
154/15 157/22 158/1
161/21 164/20 165/25)
185/3 189/2 189/20
190/1 191/6 191/21
191/24 192/6 198/1
200/2 205/17 210/13
210/15 211/2 211/3
211/16
I wasn't [15] 14/12
50/2 57/8 57/8 57/12
73/6 92/8 92/18 93/12,
111/5 113/13 127/21
128/16 128/17 168/24
I welcome [1] 11/18
I went [4] 11/1
154/16 192/14 192/21
I were [3] 40/20 52/8
154/5
Iwill [7] 11/14 16/12
31/22 63/14 111/17
111/20 193/8
I won't [4] 55/17
111/21 149/4 154/8
I wondered [1]
113/16
I would [33] 6/25
717 10/12 14/15
15/10 33/22 65/24
70/17 78/20 90/17
99/21 105/11 125/7
136/15 136/23 139/18
140/25 142/13 142/17
142/18 143/14 146/4
146/17 146/20 152/7
159/19 159/19 164/22
168/14 177/11 196/17
211/12 211/12
I wouldn't [6] 33/22
39/21 121/8 129/11
132/22 133/10
I wrote [4] 96/10
1147/1 146/5 213/13
I'd [36] 15/9 20/5
22/3 23/6 34/3 37/7
37/16 39/1 39/2 39/6
39/19 40/21 42/8
51/15 52/8 54/20 55/3
58/20 64/15 64/24
72125 79/11 80/14
85/7 100/12 102/11
114/21 125/8 128/7
131/4 142/18 143/20
154/6 171/2 174/8
193/19
Vil [12] 7/9 8/1 15/13
41/25 55/16 63/13
111/19 150/20 166/18
193/22 207/10 207/16
I'm [75] 4/17 7/3 17/5
28/25 30/3 36/11 38/7
46/20 51/5 66/8 72/11
76/11 83/12 92/9
96/21 96/25 100/15
104/8 104/12 112/25
122/4 12/6 124/4
126/12 126/13 131/2
133/15 133/25 134/3
140/4 140/13 140/14
146/12 146/24 152/21
153/9 154/19 155/8
155/13 156/13 159/25
160/1 160/6 164/3
166/2 166/8 166/15
166/23 166/24 168/7
168/24 169/3 169/8
172/15 176/8 179/2
180/2 180/2 187/5
188/9 191/8 192/22
193/13 193/20 193/21
195/18 198/4 198/9
199/6 199/11 199/11
203/8 206/10 210/16
213/24
I've [39] 6/16 6/16
6/17 27/8 31/4 33/23
35/19 35/19 39/3
46/19 48/5 58/17
71/48 83/1 91/21
112/9 116/15 116/16
122/1 124/24 131/18
131/18 131/22 132/4
136/3 142/5 145/6
146/1 157/11 160/8
164/19 164/22 166/22
186/13 187/5 187/6
193/16 197/18 208/16
idea [6] 53/21 59/12
162/19 177/12 183/22
211/16
ideas [2] 19/14
ATTN
identification [1]
158/25
identified [7] 11/16
14/22 37/22 37/24
38/9 171/11 174/7
identifies [1] 95/4
identify [4] 8/16
97/11 97/17 171/17
identifying [1] 79/4
ie [5] 52/10 74/25
103/18 103/23 109/19)
ie Accenture [1]
74/25
ie would [1] 109/19
if [213] 6/7 6/24 7/12
7/15 7/22 8/24 9/10
9/17 10/6 10/12 12/14
13/7 13/22 15/5 15/8
15/9 16/8 17/1 17/12
17/21 19/7 19/16 20/1
20/3 20/3 20/6 20/13
24/7 24/19 26/3 26/21
27/25 30/7 30/12
30/14 32/7 34/24 36/9
37/16 38/25 38/25
39/25 40/20 44/20
46/13 47/7 47/10
50/20 51/1 51/5 52/3
52/8 55/8 55/12 56/4
56/5 56/7 56/7 56/16
57/2 58/2 58/20 61/6
63/22 63/25 64/6
65/17 67/1 68/21 69/1
69/15 70/22 70/24
71/7 72/21 74/10
74/13 75/9 75/11
75/12 77/4 77/15
79/19 79/22 80/7
81/13 81/13 81/17
81/21 81/22 82/6
82/16 83/13 83/18
84/11 85/19 85/19
86/7 86/10 86/12 88/4
90/7 90/20 90/24 92/3
95/13 95/15 95/17
95/20 96/1 97/4 98/6
98/16 102/9 102/14
102/21 103/10 103/19)
105/8 107/11 107/20
108/3 108/20 109/21
111/20 111/25 112/4
114/2 114/8 114/17
121/6 125/7 126/6
129/16 130/10 130/21
132/4 135/10 136/16
136/22 140/3 141/20
141/21 142/10 142/23)
149/6 149/9 150/20
150/24 151/14 152/4
152/9 152/14 154/5
154/24 154/25 156/13)
157/5 157/12 159/23
160/10 161/6 162/10
162/19 164/25 165/23)
166/22 168/18 172/16)
173/24 174/4 174/9
176/17 177/10 178/22)
178/24 179/1 179/6
179/17 179/20 180/14)
180/17 184/3 185/4
186/6 186/20 186/24
187/10 188/10 189/19)
190/2 191/14 192/18
193/20 193/23 194/1
197/4 198/7 199/6
200/14 201/4 201/9
201/14 202/11 202/17
204/19 205/11 206/25
207/9 207/20 210/13
211/13 213/15
ignore [1] 44/16
ignored [1] 72/18
ill [3] 192/18 192/20
195/13
illegal [1] 190/19
illustrating [1]
171/24
imagines [1] 30/20
immediately [2]
71/16 192/21
impacts [1] 18/24
imperative [1] 37/2
implement [4] 30/5
76/15 94/2 108/16
implementation [1]
179/1
implemented [1]
65/23
implementing [4]
7/24 16/4 57/22 58/25
implications [3]
18/19 38/19 68/1
importance [1]
149/24
important [24] 28/14
28/24 33/19 33/21
33/21 46/17 52/7 56/8
56/10 56/21 58/2
58/15 94/22 103/21
108/13 110/9 112/4
112/8 112/8 134/16
145/17 161/14 175/7
176/9
importantly [1] 28/15
impress [1] 159/17
impression [10] 4/15
4/17 5/2 5/6 5/12 5/21
5/23 114/24 167/1
213/14
impressions [2] 6/10
37/18
improperly [1]
131/20
improve [3] 64/14
154/1 179/22
improved [1] 205/15
improvement [1]
12/2
improving [3] 7/19
15/25 110/4
inaccurate [1] 77/7
inadvertently [1]
20/14
inappropriate [2]
107/8 160/17
incapable [1] 77/8
incident [3] 60/22
106/11 207/2
include [1] 43/12
included [4] 28/4
56/18 131/15 141/13
including [18] 2/5
15/23 16/4 16/20 19/2)
19/10 32/15 107/2
107/8 120/15 139/4
139/14 140/1 140/25
151/19 198/15 199/19)
204/16
income [8] 41/1
151/2 151/4 152/13
152/15 152/18 153/10)
154/13
incoming [2] 12/11
28/11
incomprehensible [1]
212/19
inconceivable [1]
204/2
increase [9] 13/25
14/24 19/10 40/3 94/5)
154/13 184/12 196/18)
210/23
increased [1] 134/1
increases [1] 184/15
increasingly [1]
189/20
incredible [1] 104/14
incredibly [5] 78/19
94/22 116/25 176/19
191/6
incredulous [1]
115/10
incumbent [1]
152/11
indeed [7] 28/23
29/25 50/6 50/6 118/2
194/19 208/25
indefensible [2]
159/15 190/23
(71) [used - indefensible
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
] innocent [3] 88/11 _ Iinterfered [1] 131/20 I 110/24 114/6 114/14 I 80/4 81/1 81/9 84/13
indefensible’ [1] 91/18 108/4 interim [1] 148/3 115/3 115/4 115/20 I 85/2 85/10 88/7 88/25
105/15 input [1] 177/9 internal [4] 47/20 123/16 123/17 126/12I 92/2 92/13 93/13
independence [5] Inquiry [40] 4/4 4/5 I 120/1 156/10 165/3 I 126/13 127/5 127/6 I 94/12 95/4 95/7 95/11
28/38 66/12 188/12 7/23 12/3 12/5 12/6 Iinternally [10] 23/13 I 127/9 127/12 127/13 I 99/18 107/4 109/3
198/11 199/15 16/4 16/11 18/16 118/5 118/22 119/6 I 127/13 127/17 128/8 I 116/23 121/15 122/9
independent [23] 18/18 18/19 19/2 38/3) 119/11 119/19 120/17I 128/14 128/23 129/8 I 124/23 125/18 126/10}
26/4 28/16 28/22 38/8 38/14 38/23 120/23 123/20 132/6 I 129/21 129/24 131/17I 132/4 143/25 149/1
29/14 29/24 30/1 41/15 42/23 45/19 Internet [2] 38/15 171/25 190/9 190/21 I 162/18 180/21 190/2
30/17 63/10 83/10 49/5 49/13 50/8 53/22) 38/24 investigations [17] I 192/14 200/18 205/12
99/19 100/1 118/1 53/23 55/9 70/7 70/12I interrupt [3] 10/12 I 6/5 6/21 57/3 86/14 I 212/19
120/8 123/23 124/21 I 70/14 72/5 83/19 17/5 94/7 86/20 88/8 108/10 issue/argument [1]
426/10 127/7 131/21 I 91/23 91/25 97/3 interrupted [1] 142/3I 109/16 109/20 109/24) 47/11
131/23 157/4 173/g I 106/14 108/13 118/3 interview [4] 9/24 115/12 175/8 175/10 Iissued [7] 56/17
498/16 199/20 130/7 141/2 141/13 I 138/7 138/9 144/14 I 191/12 198/16 199/20] 114/14 130/8 166/6
indicated [4] 12/4 I 170/16 interviewed [1] 208/5 166/12 167/25 212/23
Tos eo/5 480/22 IIquiry's [3] 1/25 I 105/24 investigators [2] _Iissues [95] 4/20 5/17
139/8 170/14 interviews [1] 165/5 I 108/5 144/17 6/7 7/25 8/14 9/1 9/6
indication a one inroads [1] 155/7 _Iinto [60] 4/11 18/16 Iinvestment [10] 41/2I 14/16 16/5 19/2 19/22
72/18 92/11 188/9 insight [1] 64/25 28/6 30/12 32/13 43/8I 80/17 148/6 151/23 I 22/1 23/3 23/7 28/19
206/17 insofar [1] 180/25 44/17 50/3 51/24 154/4 154/10 186/17 I 30/23 32/3 32/15
individuals [2] 39/14 inspire [1] 58/10 59/24 65/1 70/23 194/9 195/3 205/9 32/18 32/22 32/23
79/4 instance [2] 42/7 72/13 82/18 85/20 investments [1] 17/4I 32/25 33/1 33/24
inefficiency [1] 77/2 50/23 86/14 87/19 90/4 91/5Iinvestor [1] 2/23 35/22 38/9 38/21
inevitable [1] 32/10 instant [2] 22/15 91/11 92/20 103/11 investors [1] 196/13 I 43/14 43/18 43/20
22/16 107/8 110/25 111/15 Iinvidious [1] 63/13 I 43/21 43/23 53/5 53/7
inexperienced [1]
25/15 instead [2] 37/3 113/13 114/6 123/16 Iinvitation [1] 105/24 I 53/13 55/19 55/22
inferred [1] 168/12 60/14 123/17 123/18 126/12I involve [2] 97/21 56/5 56/18 57/17
infighting [1] 76/5 institute [3] 80/17 126/13 126/14 127/3 I 126/16 57/18 57/18 63/17
infinitesimal [1] 130/4 130/5 127/9 127/13 127/13 \involved [21] 6/16 I 69/23 72/23 80/2 80/8)
87/16 institution [2] 150/6 I 128/14 129/2 129/16 I 27/14 79/4 80/2 82/19) 80/24 81/4 81/7 81/13
inflation [1] 184/22 152/5 131/2 131/17 138/14 I 82/19 82/21 83/7 81/25 82/3 82/5 82/8
inflicted [1] 117/6 instruct [1] 83/6 139/2 140/14 140/22 I 83/11 83/16 105/1 82/10 82/22 83/11
influence [9] 27/18 instructed [4] 138/12I 141/10 144/20 153/21} 108/11 109/14 109/16 85/9 87/21 91/16
28/3 28/7 28/9 29/6 I.139/10 139/20 141/9 I 155/7 158/17 173/14 I 109/19 109/24 112/19] 91/18 95/4 95/20
30/25 113/23 185/20 Iinstructs [1] 162/24 I 174/4 176/22 192/25 I 130/18 136/12 144/2 I 107/19 108/11 110/20
208/14 insufficient [1] 62/8 I 202/22 203/12 205/19) 144/18 112/18 116/4 117/5
influenced [2] 28/22 insurance [1] 2/21 210/6 210/9 involvement [3] 6/17 I 119/1 124/24 125/15
1456/2 integral [1] 35/8 introductory [1] 106/11 109/3 126/21 127/19 128/4
influencing [2] 75/6 integrity [1] 107/9 51/14 involving [1] 14/19 I 128/6 135/25 137/12
156/8 intention [3] 17/3 invalid [1] 114/13 is [494] 162/4 174/8 174/12
info [4] 147/3 61/15 61/18 invaluable [1] 12/13 Iish [2] 162/17 210/16 174/21 176/14 176/14)
informally [1] 3/14 intentional [1] 61/10 Iinvent [1] 132/3 Ismail [7] 19/8 81/6 I 176/15 182/3 188/4
information [27] 7/3 inter [4] 139/14 inverted [2] 213/3 86/14 106/20 109/25 I 190/7 190/22 196/11
28/2 60/19 61/14 139/23 139/25 142/18) 213/6 130/3 130/12 198/15 199/19 207/21
61/19 62/9 62/20 inter alia [3] 139/14 Iinvest [2] 38/10 isn't [17] 39/9 47/12 I 211/17
62/20 75/17 89/20 139/23 142/18 202/4 47/20 50/13 77/21 issues’ [1] 41/8
89/24 90/22 94/4 intercompany [6] invested [2] 175/18 I 91/24 94/7 99/15 it [755]
97/19 132/18 132/20 86/23 87/8 87/14 194/25 100/3 101/16 137/4 it'll [2] 48/8 112/20
132/23 132/24 138/16) 88/17 88/19 90/12 investigate [2] 21/2 I 150/10 153/12 155/9 Iit's [153] 3/8 3/18 4/6
1459/2 159/5 159/7 interest [10] 28/6 115/22 161/22 203/2 204/22 I 14/1 15/4 23/15 23/18)
1714/9 179/8 180/6 50/2 66/17 89/8 104/7I investigated [13] isolated [1] 76/8 24/4 24/22 26/12 27/8
181/19 181/23 110/19 148/19 182/7 I 20/20 20/22 89/23 issue [72] 4/25 11/24I 27/11 29/12 29/23
informed [2] 60/13 184/1 211/14 108/20 115/9 115/14 I 19/3 20/2 20/8 21/5 I 30/2 33/3 34/6 36/9
1472/2 interested [6] 19/14 I 115/15 115/17 115/17I 26/6 26/24 28/21 30/8) 37/12 37/13 39/9
initial [10] 4/15 4/17 42/19 44/1 57/1 57/9 I 125/12 127/3 127/23 I 33/11 33/15 33/20 39/11 39/11 39/16
4/24 5/12 5/20 5/23 201/12 191/25 36/8 38/4 39/10 42/2 I 40/19 40/22 42/18
6/10 7/2 7/2 150/1 interesting [1] 98/14 Iinvestigating [2] 45/7 47/11 47/23 47/5 47/8 48/3 48/7
initially [3] 3/7 interestingly [1] 91/24 192/4 47/25 49/15 49/25 I 52/11 53/14 55/9
207/7 investigation [41] 50/25 51/2 53/10 55/10 56/7 58/4 58/17,
herent ent sae [interests [6] 22/24 I 44/17 82/17 86/19 I 53/15 62/12 62/15 _I 60/6 61/7 61/25 62/12
injection [1] 16/25 66/15 95/23 150/19 I 87/19 87/25 88/6 90/4I 62/20 63/18 63/19 64/15 68/18 69/18
inner [1] 112/13 168/7 205/5 91/5 91/11 92/22 93/1] 65/15 66/10 67/15 69/19 71/7 71/9 71/10
interface [1] 26/25 I 107/8 110/23 110/24 I 67/15 71/15 71/17 71/11 72/8 72/8 72/9
(72) indefensible’ - it's
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
] 100/12 101/5 102/14 I 52/13 52/23 53/14 96/15 112/17 116/24 I 72/15 100/10 101/10
it's... [100] 73/16 104/19 104/22 105/21I 54/9 55/24 56/7 56/16) 143/19 144/1 151/25 I 119/16 130/22 136/14,
73/19 74/14 78/12 106/10 106/15 106/15I 61/17 61/18 62/14 160/10 205/10 205/24I 163/9
78/20 81/14 83/2 83/3I 114/7 116/9 116/14 I 68/15 68/18 69/4 69/6I keeps [1] 89/6 knows [3] 31/24
83/3 86/2 87/10 88/8 117/22 119/2 121/14 I 70/13 74/10 75/7 75/8\Ken [1] 1714/6 47/19 132/25
90/18 97/3 98/13 121/18 122/10 124/18] 75/8 75/24 76/18 79/9I kept [2] 176/25 177/1IKPMG [1] 82/19
99/25 101/16 106/16 I 127/20 132/8 135/19 I 83/2 83/12 84/14 85/5I Kevin [1] 146/25 Kwarteng [1] 11/25
106/19 108/13 112/15I 145/7 145/21 156/23 I 87/8 87/13 88/11 key [12] 7/10 7/14 = IKwasi[1] 11/25
112/16 113/15 114/21I 157/23 159/20 161/24] 88/17 89/5 89/25 90/8) 11/2 17/5 23/7 32/25 Ll...”
115/20 116/8 117/5 I 162/1 162/25 177/14 I 90/9 90/12 90/18 51/23 63/18 83/18
206/6 91/12 92/18 96/15 I 83/20 84/1 84/13 lack [4] 61/11 72/5
Toot tools tania [January/February [1]I 96/19 98/6 100/18 Ikeys [1] 40/6 84/16 107/9
19014 133/16 133/16, 45/7 400/20 102/11 104/1 Ikick [1] 187/18 lacks [1] 66/11
t3g/04 faerie 13718 [PBL 110/15 104/14 106/16 107/11Ikind [6] 37/1 60/18 Iland [2] 47/11 136/9
taera doris taara [ef [2] 78/10 180/20 I 109/20 109/25 110/12) 76/8 88/21 142/13 landed [1] 200/11
tee lage tara [Jeffreys [2] 86/3 I 111/18 114/19 112/11] 209/16 lane [1] 50/16
145/22 146/21 146/22I 90/21 113/3 113/9 116/6 I kindly [1] 130/8 large [4] 149/23
tart taao3 Lappe Senkins [1] 171/14 I 146/12 117/2 118/14 IKing [1] 171/19 152/20 152/24 195/5
orto 1s0r19 1s113IJewish [1] 131/8 I 119/3 11978 120/13 Iking’s [1] 163/20 largely [4] 152/5
Tet} 12/16 1ea78 [lob [8] 22/3 23/14 I 122/2 12215 122117 Iknew [4] 120/18 I 184/9 200/5 210/25
153/11 153/22 154/23I 23/19 26/19 70/25 124/4 124/16 124/24 I 127/12 141/17 209/1 Ilast [19] 14/21 19/8
154/24 157/19 158/10I 27/18 11/7 185/16 I 133/19 135/7 135/13 Iknow [113] 10/6 35/10 39/25 41/22
158/16 158/18 158/18 JOBS [2] 79/11 81/15 I 136/9 140/3 140/12 I 11/14 21/18 21/19 41/22 58/16 64/15
161/22 162/5 164/25 IYohn [6] 61/4 61/9 142/25 146/24 149/7 I 22/18 23/10 24/6 26/3I 65/24 67/13 79/17
1465/4 168/14 169/10 I 72/7 169/22 169/25 I 150/9 150/21 150/21 I 29/7 29/19 32/1 41/5 134/20 188/19 198/1
171/4.171/6 176/20. I 219/12 151/16 152/10 155/4 I 43/5 51/1 51/17 54/19I 201/17 203/17 206/12
181/24 182/18 184/19JOined [14] 4/13 6/5 I 156/11 158/4 158/8 I 55/15 58/7 60/2 60/7 206/12 207/2
184/20 184/21 186/9 I 57/20 59/6 66/5 79/8 I 159/22 162/14 164/7 I 63/15 70/7 70/17 72/1 late [4] 134/13
192/22 194/8 194/17 I 100/21 172/9 173/5 I 165/10 166/1 171/2 I 73/3 75/9 76/12 80/9 187/17 197/21 210/16
195/11 195/25 196/14I 191/18 206/6 208/19 I 174/6 174/8 175/14 I 80/11 88/9 91/4 93/17 late-ish [1] 210/16
196/23 196/25 199/6 I 208/22 209/3 176/8 176/22 177/24 I 94/25 95/17 96/1 96/2) later [15] 3/22 17/6
1499/10 200/10 203/4 Joining [1] 206/15 179/2 181/18 181/18 I 96/11 101/18 102/4 I 57/10 83/25 84/25
203/14 203/16 203/23IYolly [1] 169/15 183/12 183/12 186/12I 102/17 105/9 107/23 I 144/6 167/24 176/7
205/19 205/19 209/3 IYones [1] 72/14 188/18 189/24 190/2 I 108/23 111/10 112/9 I 176/7 177/12 186/5
209/23 journalist [4] 132/9 I 190/24 191/5 191/11 I 113/9 116/11 118/15 I 203/25 209/19 210/10
italics [1] 199/10 140/19 140/21 142/8 I 192/4 192/9 192/17 I 119/4 121/3 127/2 211/3
Judge [1] 179/6 194/23 196/2 196/6 I 130/7 132/18 143/25 Ilatest [1] 174/5
ety 6123 62125 judgement [4] 105/4 I 196/11 197/15 198/5 I 144/3 146/2 146/14 ILaundering [1] 38/20
66/12 66/16 67/14 105/9 105/10 195/13 I 198/9 202/1 202/15 I 148/11 149/3 151/22 Ilaw [1] 6/15
93/22 95/20 121/6 _ Iiudgment [13] 56/19 I 203/21 203/23 204/8 I 151/24 155/24 159/17 lawyer [4] 4/17 89/4
143/3 150/2 150/3 57/18 57/19 97/20 204/12 206/4 206/17 I 163/14 163/17 164/20] 104/12 104/13
154/25 163/2 196/9 I 162/3 163/2 171/24 I 208/17 211/9 211/22 I 166/5 166/8 167/20 lawyers [10] 105/5
1498/11 199/15 202/22I 174/12 174/21 176/14I justice [16] 5/1 56/17) 170/15 172/15 173/11 105/14 158/12 158/14
itself [2] 10/6 188/1 176/15 190/8 190/22 I 56/22 57/1 58/6 59/1 I 173/15 175/17 179/20I 165/3 212/10 212/10
judgments [2] 56/17 I 59/2 94/16 94/17 181/22 181/24 183/3 I 212/24 213/21 214/1
ool, 218 93/3 9716 I'57i9 95/23 105/3 105/18 I 183/13 183/15 183/18Ilay [1] 143/9
a _Ijudiciary [1] 103/4 I 162/3 163/2 190/7_I 184/6 184/24 185/2_Ilayers [2] 33/13 70/2
J July [5] 53/22 81/20 I 214/3 185/20 186/13 186/24Ilead [1] 89/19
Jacobs [14] 61/6 I 171/15 171/20 207/5 IJustice Fraser [2] I 186/25 188/13 188/15Ileader [1] 77/5
86/14 87/2 87/6 87/16IJune [10] 60/13 56/22 58/6 188/15 188/17 189/16I leaders [4] 76/3 76/7
90/11 106/21 109/25 I 60/19 60/20 67/10 —_I Justice Fraser's [1] I 189/19 189/22 190/15) 76/12 78/4
114/3 123/16 126/12 I 68/13 73/7 84/22 5/1 191/7 192/12 192/13 Ileadership [3] 198/4
149/20 149/21 215/6 I 84/25 170/21 188/23 I; I 192/22 196/3 197/4 I 198/11 199/15
Jacobs’ [1] 87/11 {just [168] 2/13 2/23 I__I 204/12 202/25 203/19) leading [1] 477/20
Jan [1] 32/5 5/8 7/9 8/1 10/12 Kate [1] 76/18 203/23 209/11 209/17Ilean [1] 45/18
Jane [7] 60/23 10/13 12/20 13/15 Kathleen [1] 162/24 I 209/24 211/10 214/2 Ilearned [1] 8/5
123/18 131/5 189/17 I 19/24 15/14 16/17 Kathryn [1] 148/3 I 214/8 214/9 learnt [1] 209/9
192/17 201/13 201/18I 17/2 17/24 20/5 21/5 IKatie [1] 177/19 knowing [3] 205/2_ Ileast [7] 12/8 123/21
Jane's [1] 127/24 I 21/14.22/24 24/10 I KB [1] 133/23 205/2 205/4 164/5 188/13 195/4
January [41] 14/14. I 27/3 27/11 29/4 31/18/KC [1] 98/7 knowledge [9] 1/21. I 195/25 213/8
30/11 34/4 37/13. 35/18 36/11 37/16 Ikeen [8] 22/23 47/15 I 4/22 28/12 166/4 leave [9] 46/13 46/21
44/21 93/4 93/10 38/4 38/25 39/6 39/12I 49/8 50/11 83/9 83/10] 166/24 168/12 170/10] 63/12 120/4 137/16
96/11 98/7 99/7 39/16 41/21 42/5 143/16 147/5 208/24 211/10 159/17 187/1 193/24
42/18 43/4 48/22 —Ikeep [11] 7/15 32/5 Iknown [9] 2/17 4/5 I 194/20
(73) it's... - leave
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
L 110/20 114/13 115/25] line [3] 46/6 90/19 93/21 97/4 101/6 179/8 180/1 182/13
leaver's [1] 194/3__ 116/10 116/11 130/2 I 184/14 102/25 103/2 116/1 189/12 190/15 192/18)
leaving [12] 3/17 135/17 143/9 143/12 Iline’ [1] 122/3 116/10 117/8 143/4 I 195/17 210/17 213/16)
10/2 11/19 29/15 144/7 157/25 161/24 Ilines [1] 206/13 157/25 173/10 190/7 IMail [2] 200/1 200/12
29/16 46/11 63/11 163/2 165/13 165/15 Ilink [41] 162/6 Lord Arbuthnot [1] I mails [1] 18/14
63/16 118/10 189/2 195/15 Lisa [2] 19/12 52/16 I 173/10 main [10] 10/23
494/15 195/2 letters [1] 14/13 list [1] 32/19 Lord Chancellor [5] I 62/15 70/1 92/6 115/9I
led [1] 76/5 level [16] 50/12 listed [1] 17/11 97/4 101/6 102/25 115/15 127/17 128/24)
left [12] 3/13 10/18 64/25 65/17 70/5 listen [3] 51/21 117/8 143/4 129/3 129/16
19/17 20/1 26/2 26/4 70/11 81/20 100/11 113/25 135/7 Lord Justice Fraser I mainly [3] 37/24
45/2 63/8 63/9 117/7 114/19 125/11 125/12I listening [3] 24/6 [4] 190/7 56/18 63/18
130/15 205/1 126/9 163/23 163/24 I 53/11 93/19 Lorna [5] 89/3 117/1 I maintain [1] 183/10
legacy [1] 36/13 172/18 178/8 185/11 Ilitany [1] 127/15 147/17 147/18 148/15] maintained [1]
legal [30] 2/22 5/8 levels [7] 7/20 16/1 litigation [9] 7/25 Lorna's [1] 89/15 174/22
9/8 9/15 15/23 35/3 16/24 32/12 54/16 8/15 16/5 146/4 lose [2] 142/15 149/9I Maintaining [2] 7/19
43/20 43/21 43/23 72/16 153/16 178/25 200/25 210/6 Ilosing [2] 111/13 15/25
67/17 aye galt3 [LH [1] 19/12 210/16 210/19 162/7 Majesty's [2] 45/17
89/2 89/4 103/14 li ies [1] 197/1 Ilittle [10] 20/5 27/18 Iloss [3] 40/1 194/7 I 48/18
103/25 104/4 114/15 Ii 36/25 67/12 135/22 I 200/18 major [3] 182/19
414/16 115/22 116/7 5 163/1 185/19 193/21 Iloss-making [1] 40/1I 182/20 207/2
416/22 123/3 174/19 IHaising [2] 3/12 6/14 I 210/10 213/3 losses [3] 57/2 majority [8] 94/19
185/13 190/11 190/13 lie [1] 49/8 lives [1] 194/25 114/13 175/7 99/22 105/7 120/22
497/20 197/24 214/7 lied [1] 138/23 loan [2] 88/18 88/18 Ilost [4] 36/17 161/6 I 124/12 124/13 126/6
legally [1] 185/16 lies [1] 39/5 loans [3] 87/6 88/16 I 164/23 175/9 132/6
legislation [3] 93/23 life [2] 2/21 6/18 90/15 lot [29] 22/4 24/12 I make [41] 10/19
1402/5 103/20 lift [1] 48/22 local [1] 171/13 28/19 31/15 68/16 15/18 22/16 22/18
length [4] 5/17 51/13 lifts [1] 71/7 locate [1] 157/12 70/21 70/22 71/21 24/10 27/10 27/13
75/11 135/21 light [3] 12/6 80/9 located [1] 193/25 71/22 75/13 80/9 81/9] 31/5 45/11 56/23
lengthy [3] 46/2 187/3 long [11] 41/7 43/11 I 84/9 98/12 112/22 68/15 68/18 69/16
62/13 163/7 like [59] 6/18 7/17 48/19 51/25 64/21 117/5 125/22 126/15 I 69/18 70/20 75/24
less [13] 31/15 34/3 10/13 13/17 15/20 73/15 73/18 77/6 146/18 153/19 179/24] 76/24 78/6 84/18 85/5
40/2 52/11 84/9 20/5 27/9 29/17 29/18) 155/3 202/14 204/10 I 185/12 189/25 191/10} 96/16 96/17 99/6
1407/18 129/10 163/19) 29/21 37/7 37/16 long-term [7] 41/7 191/22 192/6 192/11 I 99/10 99/13 99/23
1467/15 184/20 184/21 40/14 54/14 54/22 43/11 48/19 51/25 195/9 200/5 101/10 142/14 147/6
205/16 205/17 55/3 61/8 63/2 64/15 I 155/3 202/14 204/10 Ilots [2] 125/11 187/5 I 147/8 152/4 153/4
lesser [1] 38/18 65/24 69/7 78/10 longer [5] 38/14 45/2 Iloud [2] 121/11 201/6I 154/9 155/7 160/19
lessons [1] 8/5 79/21 80/11 80/16 45/13 49/1 71/17 louder [1] 173/25 160/24 167/1 168/6
let [12] 43/5 52/13 81/16 90/17 102/11 Ilook [36] 3/8 9/22 lousy [1] 88/23 175/19 182/24 204/25)
89/6 95/13 95/17 107/11 110/1 111/21 I 13/21 30/2 55/21 low [1] 46/25 makes [6] 60/1 63/12
96/17 110/24 112/23 112/8 112/20 114/22 I 60/11 61/20 63/12 lower [3] 9/14 12/23 I 71/8 105/5 105/9
118/9 118/15 149/19 116/2 116/20 121/8 I 63/13 63/25 65/24 152/7 145/24
165/25 137/4 139/18 145/19 I 89/4 93/6 97/2 97/5 Ilowest [3] 63/22 making [29] 5/25 9/4
let's [18] 45/3 58/7 146/20 150/10 152/7 I 104/21 112/24 117/2 I 63/25 138/15 22/8 26/16 40/1 40/19
58/9 63/25 72/7 75/14I 154/4 171/2 172/20 I 118/13 122/21 138/20) ludicrous [1] 100/13 I 42/19 52/11 56/6 63/1
85/15 85/17 86/2 174/8 175/18 178/6 I 140/5 142/16 147/17 Ilunch [4] 112/3 65/15 70/8 77/8 94/22
96/15 96/17 97/2 180/22 191/6 193/19 I 156/3 160/24 171/3 I 112/25 112/25 117/10) 95/20 95/22 100/9
4122/9 122/10 133/19 201/15 203/5 203/14 I 174/4 176/8 178/23 Iluxury [1] 45/6 100/10 105/4 149/1
1440/5 146/15 202/15 204/2 209/13 212/3 I 186/17 188/10 191/21 167/22 168/5 168/20
letter [66] 7/4 7/7 212/21 201/12 203/21 206/19) "*§_ ____I 185/23 189/7 192/18
7/11 7/13 9/25 10/6 likelihood [1] 39/24 Ilooked [8] 54/21 MacLeod [2] 201/13 I 192/20 196/21 200/2
10/8 10/19 11/3 12/25] likely [5] 47/21 94/19 I 84/21 150/25 154/16 I 201/19 man [1] 116/16
43/9 13/17 13/21 97/11 105/6 187/4 157/10 185/4 202/3 Imade [49] 8/8 17/22 Imanage [7] 78/11
143/22 14/8 14/10 limbo [1] 205/2 211/15 21/6 30/10 40/17 85/6 99/18 147/3
14/18 15/6 15/13 limit [6] 127/8 127/17 Ilooking [17] 3/5 29/8 I 42/20 43/7 43/19 176/20 178/12 186/18)
21/21 22/12 42/13 127/22 128/2 128/22 I 37/8 44/18 49/6 73/10) 49/19 51/16 51/17 managed [4] 75/19
46/15 53/4 53/8 61/4 186/8 79/5 84/14 93/3 99/7 I 65/13 69/22 71/12 81/12 200/17 210/19
61/9 72/7 81/20 93/5 Ilimited [7] 11/12 101/24 123/15 123/15) 79/12 79/17 84/20 __I management [51]
93/7 93/9 93/10 93/15 11/15 37/4 71/10 124/23 179/15 180/13) 84/21 86/9 88/9 91/22I 8/19 9/8 9/18 15/22
93/25 95/16 95/25 184/2 196/23 196/25 I 199/4 92/4 92/11 94/21 15/23 16/19 25/17
96/18 97/2 97/4 101/6I limiting [1] 127/11 Ilooks [7] 44/11 59/25] 94/24 95/3 96/1 96/24) 26/17 30/25 31/3
101/13 101/15 102/15] limits [1] 63/6 84/24 102/6 103/5 107/10 110/19 113/16) 33/13 39/20 39/22
104/17 104/18 104/21I!imp [7] 138/18 116/2 203/14 127/15 128/4 129/19 I 41/3 43/16 47/17
104/24 105/5 105/13 140/10 140/11 140/14Iloose [1] 1714/2 130/15 141/16 142/12) 47/20 47/25 48/3 48/8
140/16 140/22 187/19ILord [14] 93/5 93/10 I 144/5 161/19 177/2 I 49/22 50/13 51/3
(74) leaver’s - management
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
M 205/18 184/25 187/1 188/10 Imemo [3] 60/6 192/12
management... [28] _I"2Y. [42] 12/8 17/6 I 188/12 195/7 197/5 I 147/21 150/21 mindful [1] 149/17
54/11 54/13 64/18 20/6 24/21 30/5 51/1 I 203/11 205/13 209/8 Imemory [1] 186/9 mindset [2] 197/23
64/23 65/17 66/3 66/6I ©2/22 66/16 73/1 73/5) 209/14 210/23 212/11Imention [4] 49/10 199/22
81/25 91/11 98/11 212/18 154/21 157/16 207/8 Imine [1] 106/19
ror odes 102/4 103/15 109/1 Imeaningful [1] mentioned [6] 17/23 I minimis [4] 86/25
Bo/4 BAIT BBI4 112/4 126/20 129/3_I 179/22 33/23 39/9 49/4 60/19I 87/3 87/10 89/24
105/17 106/23 112/12) 130/2 130/14 13/5 Imeans [3] 12/8 64/4 I 164/11 minimum [5] 19/10
118/19 155/6 164/18 I 141/16 147/24 150/20] 205/1 mentions [1] 148/5 I 40/4 152/25 184/23
468/15 168/16 197/23] 196/19 157/6 157/14 Imeant [12] 42/4 merits [1] 113/13 I 208/7
199/23 166/21 166/25 170/16I 42/11 43/3 43/4 49/12Imess [5] 4/9 33/6 _Iminister [24] 14/5
manager [2] 39/21 I 171/10 171/10 17376 I 51/6 54/14 125/24 I 33/6 47/25 160/12 I 18/1 18/2 18/4 19/6
76/17 175/4 180/13 180/14 I 173/3 173/13 173/16 Imessage [3] 37/3 I 19/16 19/20 19/23
manages [1] 143/2 I 180/19 188/19 189/14) 212/7 52/1 160/3 20/1 22/1 23/2 23/8
managing [2] 80/5 I 208/14 210/25 measured [1] 163/18 messages [1] 155/16] 23/21 40/21 95/2
210/18 maybe [7] 15/6 54/18Imeasuring [4] 56/25 Imessy [1] 147/5 96/23 102/17 102/23
manner [1] 9/14 141/14 143/17 174/3 I 57/14 175/5 175/6 — Imet [5] 5/155/15 —_I 103/8 135/22 136/8
mantra [1] 200/16 I 199/23 242/21 mechanics [1] 36/23 44/23 102/24 I 146/22 146/25 150/22
manually [1] 175/21 IMeCall [1] 171/6 185/13 microphone [1] ministers [3] 12/1
many [25] 17/23 /McEwan [1] 129/7_ Imechanisms [1] 28/5) 174/1 166/6 213/9
Tao! 20/9 33/13: Ime [101] 4/18 6/3 6/8 Imedia [7] 67/23 mid [4] 61/21 66/23 Iminority [2] 156/11
35/20 35/20 37/20 I 10/4 10/18 12/13 94/13 102/19 103/18 I 124/18 169/12 164/21
43/19 4516 81/14 13/22 15/7 16/9 21/17I 134/2 134/8 207/25 Imid-afternoon [1] _ Iminuses [1] 76/25
82/23 86/16 95/7 31/10 35/2 48/4 49/25I mediation [3] 173/14) 169/12 minute [1] 99/16
T15/1 152/19 1983/2 I 51/14 52/24 54/25 I 198/15 199/19 mid-January [1] minuted [1] 52/2
453/24 155/14 163/22I 55/14 63/7 63/18 84/5Imedium [5] 15/24 I 124/18 minutes [12] 20/6
463/24 164/14 175/10I 84/13 86/11 92/8 16/20 16/22 17/1 17/2Imid-morning [2] 35/15 67/1 99/3 157/1
182/12 194/19 196/11] 92/22 105/20 107/20 Imedium-term [4] __I 61/21 66/23 157/11 157/12 158/3
map [1] 98/23 107/24 109/8 110/24 I 16/20 16/22 17/1 17/2Imiddle [3] 50/3 158/5 166/18 180/13
March [7] 22/22 1114/1 111/5 1114/8 meet [3] 153/4 184/4 I 177/23 178/23 180/14
61/23 167/05 173123 I 111/23 112/17 113/3 I 196/15 might [34] 14/3 15/6 Imiscarriages [1]
117/19 118/9 118/13 Imeeting [65] 5/11 __I 21/7 33/16 38/8 48/25I 94/16
orginal HT sant 118/21 119/3 119/20 I 9/23 14/18 16/16 17/7) 51/8 52/5 54/25 55/1 Imiscommunication
mark [4] 26/18 35/18 I 1205 122/1 124/5 I 17/9 17/10 17/22 18/2) 56/2 55/19 66/22 I [1] 120/25
189/17 201/13 126/22 127/13 127/25I 19/17 21/25 23/2 I 69/17 70/8 70/14_I misinformation [1]
market [1] 1219 I 1291 129/5 129/16 I 23/24 24/5 24/9 24/10) 70/20 99/9 105/23 I 73/17
markets [2] 116/11 I 130/1 130/12 131/4 I 24/14 34/4 36/2 3716 I 142/17 152/1 162/10 Imisteading [1] 77/7
208/12 131/8 136/22 136/22 I 37/8 37/10 37/14 159/7 159/22 163/20 Imismatch [2] 171/12
marks [2] 140/7 136/23 137/1 137/24 I 43/24 44/22 45/1 164/1 167/15 168/3 207/8
140/10 137/25 138/2 138/4 I 46/15 46/23 51/14 177/1 190/6 203/1 missed [3] 10/5
Martin [3] 107/6 138/4 139/2 144/5 52/2 52/5 53/6 53/12 I 203/1 211/6 211/23 I 110/9 159/16
177/20 192/14 145/3 147/11 154/7 I 53/14 54/2 55/4 57/21I migrating [1] 179/14 I missing [2] 85/12
massive [5] 13/25 160/20 162/24 165/6 I 61/7 92/12 98/7 99/15I Mike [3] 206/13 85/14
33/24 39/19 119/7 165/25 167/20 169/2 I 99/15 100/18 101/12 I 206/17 209/1 mist [1] 35/6
119/23 172/7 177/13 177/16 I 109/8 117/25 119/2 I million [38] 13/1 mistake [3] 76/3
177/21 182/3 187/8 I 119/9 121/14 122/20 I 37/23 37/24 38/1 38/2) 122/22 213/23
massively [1] 18/22 I 197/46 1g9/2 1890/6 I 123/2 125/6 135/19 I 38/11 38/14 38/15 Imistakes [1] 68/8
material [3] 38/17
171/17 196/21 189/7 189/11 189/14 I 135/21 137/10 147/22I 38/16 52/13 58/8 misunderstood [1]
matter [20] 16/12 189/17 190/21 192/12) 156/22 157/3 159/18 I 60/14 60/15 61/17 95/1
16/14 41/11 46/1 192/18 192/18 192/19] 160/10 168/14 168/15I 61/18 73/8 73/8 74/3 I mitigate [1] 11/19
192/20 192/23 193/21] 178/19 178/21 211/13I 77/13 86/22 112/23 I mitigation [1] 78/21
cata Henernnaald 198/25 199/3 211/14 Imeetings [7] 35/17 I 151/1 151/4 155/8 mode [1] 143/18
100/4 120/19 120/22 I 211/18 212/16 44/1 99/3 160/11 183/8 183/9 183/14 I model [1] 177/19
421/18 128/5 129/17 Imean [47] 6/23 21/7 I 170/25 210/23 211/2 I 184/14 186/9 191/17 IModernisation [2]
130/23 158/9 201/24 I 21/10 24/6 25/20 Mel [1] 114/11 191/18 191/19 191/20I 9/20 16/6
matters [22] 4/3 4/4 26/14 31/2 38/25 39/6IMelanie [1] 114/3 197/1 200/19 205/13 Imodest [2] 37/5
4/16 5/14 14/3 15/20 I 40/20 51/13 51/22 member [5] 86/4 205/14 207/14 195/1
20/2 52/5 59/2 59/16 I 92/1 54/7 60/16 65/14I 113/8 130/5 188/13 I millions [1] 108/17 I modus [1] 189/15
103/19 125/11 126/16I 73/11 79/13 103/25 I 211/3 mind [17] 10/24 Mohammed [1]
1432/3 135/23 137/11 I 109/12 109/13 121/4 Imembers [7] 64/18 I 10/25 10/25 21/15 122/3
140/23 144/20 144/21I 121/25 146/9 153/19 I 103/3 106/23 107/6 I 75/7 80/8 86/22 moment [7] 56/16
174/7 192/24 210/18 I 153/21 153/22 153/22I 108/2 115/24 119/16 I 119/22 121/6 125/1_ I 66/22 123/13 134/2
maximum [2] 12/16 154/15 162/8 176/17 Imembership [2] 56/2I 126/5 144/12 150/13 I 154/5 190/3 203/9
183/6 183/25 184/6 I 112/1 166/3 189/12 189/12 Imoments [1] 7/10
(75) management... - moments
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
M 163/1 173/8 173/15 I 124/9 126/12 128/3 I 59/2 120/14 120/15 121/2
Monday [3] 86/11 _ 186/12 187/10 187/15) 128/7 129/13 129/15 IMr Justice Fraser's I 121/2 127/3 128/21
1425/8 148/4 187/24 196/16 196/18] 135/18 136/8 136/25 I [1] 162/3 128/21 129/7 129/8
money [44] 9/4 10/16] 201/9 201/16 203/11 I 139/19 142/6 142/10 IMr Parker [3] 3/13 133/23 134/7 134/16
15/3 22/20 38/19 203/13 209/5 143/9 144/12 146/24 I 7/8 165/14 163/20 165/13 193/11
40/21 42/21 49/17 IMorning [14] 1/3 1/4 I 147/17 147/22 148/18/Mr Read [41] 12/25 I 193/12 201/19 215/16
51/24 52/11 53/4 1/5 37/13 55/3 61/21 I 149/17 149/20 149/21I 18/5 23/7 24/19 24/23IMs Badenoch [3]
53/13 63/16 7a/12 I 66/23 134/14 135/16 I 149/22 150/9 156/18 I 25/25 26/21 37/12 I 133/23 134/7 134/16
84/10 87/2 87/4 148/2 149/24 163/8 I 156/20 156/21 157/4 I 46/4 46/11 46/12 47/6IMs Burton [8] 15/4
112/23 136/17 1541/5 I 176/11 214/15 157/10 157/15 157/16I 47/16 55/7 75/23 67/16 112/14 119/18
152/10 184/20 12/7 Imost [16] 28/15 158/3 158/22 159/10 I 77/23 78/24 82/6 120/6 120/14 121/2
165/23 182/17 184/5 I 21/18 67/13 74/17 I 159/13 159/25 161/10] 82/18 92/20 92/20 I 128/21
4185/5 186/19 187/10 I 80/10 94/12 96/22 I 161/20 161/23 161/25] 93/18 93/18 96/4 97/4IMs Davies [9] 91/6
490/4 190/9 190/20 I 110/9.115/19 116/14 I 162/3 163/1 163/15 I 106/17 110/21 110/25] 91/22 91/25 92/4 92/5
490/25 191/14 192/5 I 120/23 121/20 161/14] 164/3 164/11 165/10 I 113/7 123/6 123/17 I 92/19 106/1 11113
4194/28 196/16 196/19] 164/11 164/14 197/7 I 165/14 169/6 169/14 I 128/3 136/25 143/9_ I 127/3
4196/19 203/10 204/8 IMotivated [1] 127/8 I 169/21 169/23 170/1 I 146/24 147/17 147/22IMs Gallafent [2] 98/8
211/25 212/1 212/21 I Motive [1] 91/12 1714/5 172/16 188/25 I 148/18 161/23 163/1 I 163/20
monies [3] 27/13 IMotives [1] 121/8 I 193/13 197/11 197/12I 188/25 Ms Gratton [5]
29/8 108/24 mounting [1] 102/20 I 197/13 199/5 199/12 IMr Read's [14] 12/14) 112/13 119/17 120/15
monitored [1] 174/22Imove [12] 7/2.55/3 I 201/24 201/25 202/1 I 13/14 14/6 21/24 4121/2 128/21
Monitoring [4] 56/20 58/3 72/7 82/20I 202/2 206/3 207/22 I 44/12 46/2 50/18 52/4IMs McEwan [1]
208/10 85/17 110/16 179/13 I 210/3 210/5 211/18 I 52/7 82/8 135/18 129/7
month [14] 6/25 30/5 I 207/11 209/18 214/4 I 214/11 214/15 215/4 IMr Recaldin [4] Ms Munby [17] 5/16
MBSE 53/19. (Moved [5] 21/24 73/8) 215/6 215/8 215/14 I 20/18 20/19 36/2 10/10 15/13 17/7
87/29 100/12 100121 I 85/7 209/17 210/21 I 215/18 215/20 158/22 22/12 42/1 45/10
116/15 146/8 191/20 IMovement [5] 46/18 IMr Bartlett [1] Mr Richard [1] 45/16 45/23 47/18
monthly [2] 69/25 I 71/22 71/23 103/56 I 110/16 159/10 48/7 48/11 48/25
74/8 104/5 Mr Bates [3] 96/9 IMr Staunton [22] 1/6I 50/11 50/19 50/23
months [27] 3/22 Imoves [1] 9/7 98/24 128/7 4/11 10/7 14/8 50/18 I 165/13
1/23 G24 14/20 22/6 Moving [15] 10/11 IMR BLAKE [12] 1/8 I 50/22 100/3 100/15 IMs Munby/Mr
29/14 59/11 60/5 73/3) 21/17 52/12 87/4 67/8I 10/4 94/7 100/17 113/2 122/9 139/19 I Staunton [1] 50/20
741 77/14 BB? 1 1eI7I 99/4 99/13 11116 142/10 144/12 150/9 I 142/6 149/22 156/21 IMs Sheratt [1] 129/8
tert 1168 127/14, I 128/1 132/8 173/19 I 169/23 202/2 214/15 I 157/10 158/3 159/13 IMs Vennells [1]
qaelia 146/14 146/15) 176/3 18118 183/21 I 215/4 215/14 159/25 161/10 165/10I 201/19
458/16 164/6 177/23 I 207/15 Mr Bradshaw [1] 169/6 211/18 Ms Watt [3] 193/11
4185/7 188/16 191/13 /MF [169] 1/6 1/8 1/11 I 110/1 Mr Staunton/Ms 193/12 215/16
3/13 3/15 7/8 10/4 IMr Cameron [16] Munby [1] 45/21 IMs Williams [1]
194/7 20714 10/7 12/14 12/25 21/3 22/21 55/12 Mr Stein [3] 201/24 I 13/19
months’ [1] 194/4
13/14 14/6 14/8 18/5 I 60/23 149/17 169/21 I 201/25 215/20 much [65] 1/23 4/9
moray sean 18/25 20/8 20/18 I 170/1 193/13 197/13 IMr Taylor [2] 161/25 I 13/12 25/24 26/11
more feel aias4 I 20/192113 21/24 I 19/5 199/12 20211 I r64/11 28/4 36/17 37/23
Mie aie al9 15/9 12110] 22/21 23/7 24/19 I 206/3 210/3 210/5 I Mr Tidswell [14] 3/15) 41/19 44/16 44/23
Tayt7 Dols 24/7 2olnoI 24/23 25/25 26/21 I 214/11 18/25 20/8 30/15 32/8] 47/8 48/5 48/6 52/15
Ber 3yl4 37/5 37/6 I 30/15 32/8 36/2 37/12IMr Cameron's [3] I 98/14 129/13 129/16 I 54/25 54/25 55/1
saps ate aes I 44/12 45121 46/2 46/4] 55/6 59/8 169/14 _I 157/4 187/15 164/20 I 62/14 65/3 65/13
3810 coe 5216 soo I 46/11 46/12.47/6 [Mr Darfoor [2] 120/7 IMr Young [1] 207/22 I 65/15 66/19 79/20
Baia e420 sons. [47/16 50/18 50/18 I 124/9 Mrs [2] 162/24 83/2 84/8 84/20 97/24]
Bt beta rors I 50/20 50/22 52/4 52/7IMr Foat [6] 90/3 _I 163/22 103/2 104/15 107/18
Soe pa/ia veya va/1I 95/6 55/7 55/12 59/2 I 92/16 103/11 107/25 IMrs Crane's [1] 111/11 116/4 19/5
Taos eo/s Bani Bare] 89/8 60/23 75/23 I 171/5 172/16 163/22 425/18 136/4 145/18
Ba/8 BBi19 90/22 I 77/23 78/24 82/6 82/8IMr Foat's [1] 104/17 IMrs Kathleen [1] I 147/18 151/2 151/5
sos see ob/13 I 82/1886/14 90/3 IMrHenry [7] 156/18 I 162/24 151/17 152/13 156/15
96/13 97/24 103/2 90/11 90/21 92/16 157/16 163/15 164/3 IMs [53] 5/16 10/10 I 161/3 161/6 166/16
105/10 107/18 111/9 I 92/20 92/20 93/18 197/11 197/12 215/18) 13/19 15/4 15/13 17/7I 167/1 169/4 169/6
112/24 117/4 121/24 I 93/18 94/7 96/4 96/9 I Mr Hollinrake [1] 22/12 42/1 45/10 169/15 170/12 173/15)
4122/5 125/21 125/25 I 97/4 98/14 98/24 136/8 45/16 45/21 45/23 174/18 174/18 184/5
4126/7 134/11 141/25 I 100/3 100/15 100/17 _IMr Ismail [2] 86/14 I 47/18 48/7 48/11 193/3 193/10 201/22
103/11 104/17 106/17] 109/25 48/25 50/11 50/19 211/10 212/11 212/16
143/18 145/25 150/18)
151/2 151/5 152/15 I 107/25 109/25 109/25IMr Jacobs [6] 90/11 I 50/20 50/23 67/16 213/5 214/10 214/14
153/10 154/20 155/2 I 110/1 110/15 110/21 I 109/25 114/3 123/16 I 91/6 91/22 91/25 92/4) 214/16
156/13 158/1 159/11 I 110/25 113/2 113/7 I 126/12 149/20 92/5 92/19 98/8 106/1I muddled [1] 203/9
1461/7 161/17 161/21 I 114/3 120/7 122/9 Mr Jeffreys [1] 90/21] 111/3 112/13 112/14 Imuddling [1] 187/23
123/6 123/16 123/17 IMr Justice Fraser [1] I 119/17 119/18 120/6 I multi [2] 202/13
(76) Monday - multi
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
197/5 197/18 198/1 I 205/23 211/25 125/6 139/13 145/15 I 140/25 141/20 144/11
an 11) 209/18 I 198/20 200/3 201/1 Ineeded [26] 16/22 146/13 146/15 187/19] 146/2 153/1 153/15
multi-year [2] 202/13 201/1 201/3 201/7 16/25 18/21 19/5 21/1I 199/7 207/16 153/15 154/3 155/3
202/18 201/14 201/17 206/22) 31/17 31/18 41/5 41/8INFSP [2] 183/21 155/3 155/4 159/12
Munby [26] 5/16 7/7 208/16 208/24 210/13) 43/10 48/9 71/17 72/2) 193/11 159/13 159/25 160/1
10/10 15/13 17/7 210/14 210/25 211/24) 74/5 74/6 74/8 75/24 Inice [1] 43/25 161/7 161/17 161/20
22/12 30/11 32/5 34/4I 219/24 84/5 114/17 118/11 I Nick [80] 11/13 11/19] 163/6 163/19 169/2
42/1 45/10 45/16 myself [1] 114/10 150/2 177/10 177/15 I 11/24 12/22 13/20 177/24 178/10 183/23)
45/21 45/23 46/3 xn... 179/4 179/7 179/10 I 18/5 20/15 29/2 29/25) 184/18 186/22 187/18)
47/10 47/18 48/7 +_________Ineeds [18] 25/8 30/18 30/20 31/22 195/16 196/22 199/8
48/11 48/25 50/11 Iname [6] 1/9 1/10 30/20 38/2 38/5 62/7 I 32/3 33/20 41/17 200/2 200/13 201/17
50/19 50/20 50/23 (I 17/23 85/22 92/8 62/24 64/8 64/14 41/22 46/16 54/3 203/18 204/19 204/25
135/19 165/13 169/24 77IN7 94/4 107/3 57/23 58/2 58/18 60/7I 206/1 206/7 206/19
Mustim [1] 131/9 /Ramed [7] 91/26 92/1) 110/16 151/8 183/28 I 69/17 69/22 70/6 207/8 209/21 211/5
must [15] 30/24 93/9 92/5 92/8 92/10 92/17I 198/7 204/10 205/23 I 71/15 72/13 72/17 I 211/8
103/25 108/4 133/23 I 122/12 208/4 72/19 73/6 74/7 76/3 Inobody [3] 21/25
441/20 146/6 146/13 IDamely [1] 11/12 Ineedsiviews [1] 64/8] 77/25 78/23 79/9 77/19 197/13
146/17 160/5 160/20 [ames [1] 155/24 negative [1] 76/6 79/17 80/15 81/16 Inodded [2] 23/25
narrative [4] 67/11 Inegotiate [1] 195/5 I 84/21 93/7 96/10 123/14
sopig0 16220 20219 I 197/17 197/22 198/6 I negotiated [1] 183/4 I 96/13 101/13 101/17 Inods [1] 78/7
mutualising [1] nasty [1] 130/15 negotiating [1] 104/23 109/7 115/16 Inoise [1] 176/8
t54/o4 national [5] 193/15 I 213/18 116/23 117/2 122/22 INomCo [3] 113/5
200/23 202/6 202/11 Inegotiation [3] 123/1 123/3 126/13 I 119/24 120/12
my [149] 1/10 2/24 I oo9/47
182/21 213/20 214/1 I 127/14 127/22 128/5 Inominally [1] 3/23
ee 3, A tne 5/2I nationally [1] 15/18 neither [2] 43/1 128/12 129/2 129/4 Inominated [1] 28/23
10/25 10/25 11/23 Natural [1] 97/16 141/5 131/2 137/18 143/14 INominations [6]
14/10 14/15 14/18 IMaturally [1] 32/13 Ineo [1] 25/24 143/18 144/24 145/1 I 113/5 113/6 113/15
24/10 24/12 24/15 — INBIT [28]_18/20 neo-executive [1] 148/9 177/11 177/16 I 113/18 113/21 113/22
26/1 26/24 29/1 29/2 I 38/19 59/7 59/9 59/10) 25/24 184/25 187/8 187/13 Inon [38] 2/12 24/25
59/18 59/2072/15 I net [1] 197/14 187/16 187/21 188/15) 25/5 25/10 25/13
32/11 34/22 35/16 I 79/19 73/14 74/10 Inetwork [19] 19/5 I 189/2 192/13 194/14 I 25/22 28/12 29/12
35/21 36/24 38/12
38/13 38/25 39/18 75/15 75/16 75/19 32/15 32/23 33/21 196/16 210/14 210/19] 30/22 31/6 31/23 32/1
42/4 42/6 43/22 46/19I 12/20 75/23 77/3 7/8) 37/21 43/6 43/13 Nick's [6] 11/17 12/2 I 32/4 32/20 62/1 63/5
46/9 48/4 51/14 176/13 176/22 176/23] 151/23 184/9 187/13 I 32/16 32/23 104/17 I 64/18 64/23 66/14
53/19 54/7 sala se/4 I 176/25 17/3 177/5_ I 193/24 195/2 195/3 I 145/3 91/11 106/12 109/9
e116 66/7 67/12 177/7 177/10 177/25 I 195/23 196/3 202/7 Inight [3] 111/7 114/25 115/5 115/7
gas 7orie 710 I 178/14 202/14 205/8 205/22 I 153/22 153/22 115/13 118/20 119/2
73/23 73/24 74/4 near [4] 48/6 67/20 Inetworks [1] 49/3 nine [5] 24/7 29/16 I 119/4 121/19 123/22
74/11 75/2 75/7 78/18I 1017 203/11 never [24] 6/16 6/17 I 63/9 164/5 207/3 126/3 126/4 147/24
78/21 80/8 80/15 nearly [1] 209/3 27/8 39/3 39/19 45/5 Ino [126] 3/7 4/2 4/17 I 155/19 156/9 181/12
82/25 84/3 92/22 94/4Iecessarily [2] 40/14) 48/5 49/23 71/18 6/2 6/16 6/23 6/25 I 211/5
94/10 98/20 99/5 181/22 80/15 83/1 85/7 10/7 19/19 19/22 non-exec [2] 64/23
99/22 101/18 103/13 IRecessary [3] 36/21 I 108/22 138/24 142/16I 19/25 23/6 24/4 27/18) 211/5
4104/7 104/9 105/12 I 37/2 183/11 144/12 162/5 174/23 I 27/25 28/9 29/20 30/8Inon-execs [6] 30/22
4106/7 116/15 119/11 INED [1] 120/2 178/4 178/16 181/16 I 32/25 33/9 33/14 34/3I 62/1 109/9 121/19
4120/5 125/19 125/20 INEDs [6] 106/6 186/13 187/6 212/3 I 35/16 40/15 40/19 _ I 126/3 126/4
125/22 126/25 128/24 125/17 141/23 142/2 Inevertheless [1] 41/6 42/20 55/10 57/8I non-executive [22]
4129/3 129/14 129/15 I 1641/2 161/9 163/11 59/11 59/12 59/17 I 24/25 25/5 25/10
429/16 129/17 130/1 Imeed [49] 12/10 new [24] 18/20 31/23I 60/8 61/15 61/25 25/13 25/22 28/12
1430/1 136/5 136/6 16/23 23/21 30/4 43/11 54/1 58/8 58/22I 68/24 69/15 70/3 29/12 31/23 32/1 32/4
136/12 138/19 138/24 36/18 41/18 45/14 66/1 69/3 73/16 77/18] 71/14 73/14 73/17 32/20 63/5 64/18
141/7 141/9 141/20 48/8 48/15 48/17 53/4) 107/15 117/25 136/17I 73/23 78/3 80/7 80/8 I 66/14 106/12 114/25
444/1 150/13 150/25 53/18 56/2 62/25 176/13 177/22 178/1 I 80/14 87/5 90/6 90/13) 115/5 115/7 115/13
4154/8 154/22 157/18 63/15 79/23 81/16 188/16 193/25 194/2 I 90/15 92/8 93/16 96/3I 123/22 147/24 155/19}
157/24 160/9 161/18 I 228,95/17 103/3 198/11 199/15 200/4 I 99/5 102/11 104/7 _Inon-executives [5]
162/16 162/18 164/5 I 110/38 112/19 117/3 I 200/5 203/24 104/7 105/10 107/7 I 91/11 118/20 119/2
4168/9 169/5 172/44 I 117/4 119/22 119/23 Inews [1] 107/20 109/7 115/16 116/9 I 119/4 156/9
4173/5 173/6 174/14 I 120/12 120/21 122/22Inewspaper [3] 118/7 124/1 124/10 _Inone [2] 52/2 61/5
475/11 177/14 180/10] 127/16 145/12 147/8 I 138/17 139/17 139/25I 124/20 124/22 127/25I nonetheless [3]
184/17 186/14 187/22I 147/18 147/20 148/1 Inewspapers [1] 128/7 129/14 131/1 I 39/12 90/17 195/17
4188/3 189/22 192/12 I 121/12 152/4 153/25 I 139/17 132/19 132/23 132/24] nor [2] 114/13 128/9
192/15 192/20 192/21 154/3 154/12 154/22 Inext [17] 9/23 18/15 I 132/24 133/8 137/5 Inormal [9] 14/1
4193/3 194/17 195/13 161/22 171/15 174/25) 25/14 27/20 27/22 137/7 137/18 139/9 I 25/21 61/8 61/25 80/5
187/11 192/25 202/21) 32/14 37/5 40/6 73/13) 140/1 140/4 140/14 I 83/4 87/13 132/16
(77) muiti... - normal
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
N 133/11 134/23 135/5 I 22/1 24/3 183/7 183/20 183/25 I 72/18 73/17 76/13
normal... [1] 136/24 135/16 136/19 136/21Ioccasions [1] 12/1 I 184/2 184/3 184/14 I 78/2 78/24 79/8 84/1
normalise [1] 70/14 138/5 141/22 144/20 Ioccurred [1] 137/14 I 187/10 187/19 188/11I 84/1 90/8 95/2 98/11
normally [4] 13/16 149/6 150/9 151/13 Ioceurring [1] 100/18 I 188/22 190/4 190/8 I 103/15 104/15 105/10
59/22 62/17 124/13 I 194/1 157/10 157/18 Iocean [1] 196/21 194/1 194/4 194/6 109/22 110/9 110/25
not [253] 158/3 158/16 159/12 IOctober [7] 1/1 3/15 I 194/15 195/5 195/22 I 111/4 112/3 112/15
note [47] 22/22 37/9 162/20 163/14 169/11] 3/18 23/23 54/1 83/15I 195/23 196/9 196/12 I 112/24 113/8 114/24
37/12 37/13 42/1 42/6I 173/19 177/13 177/25] 85/16 196/14 196/23 196/24] 116/21 119/19 120/14
42/16 42/17 42/25 178/18 186/5 187/21 IOctober 2024 [1] 1/1 I 197/5 197/6 198/4 120/15 124/2 124/16
43/3 44/14 44/21 45/3I 189/15 194/14 197/19] odd [8] 14/3 25/23 198/12 198/20 199/16] 124/23 127/24 130/18
45/9 45/20 46/1 51/11 198/5 202/15 202/21 I 60/14 79/11 121/7 199/24 202/3 202/4 131/3 131/3 131/8
53/9 53/9 73/10 89/17I 202/23 204/1 206/11 I 145/10 181/24 183/6 I 202/6 202/7 202/22 I 131/8 131/9 131/12
89/19 102/10 102/24 I 206/13 207/7 207/17 I off [18] 15/5 26/18 I 203/9 204/11 204/24 I 131/14 132/15 141/1
103/13 110/7 114/17 I 208/16 41/6 42/20 46/24 205/10 206/6 206/15 I 144/8 145/1 145/10
111/20 122/12 123/3 [nowhere [3] 96/7 51/25 56/22 74/12 207/13 208/19 212/15] 146/20 151/8 151/13
133/12 133/12 133/21] 191/7 203/11 122/22 130/5 147/3 I 212/16 212/20 213/9 I 155/12 156/9 161/7
134/16 135/6 138/25 [Rudge [2] 58/16 148/14 179/13 187/18] Office's [11] 7/19 161/14 161/17 161/20)
140/11 141/4 1141/5 I 68/23 190/9 191/15 196/6 I 15/25 16/10 30/23 165/10 165/22 168/19)
1441/6 141/7 141/9 number [36] 1/24 212/5 32/19 105/14 108/19 I 169/2 174/13 175/7
143/20 143/25 146/21] 2/13 9/1 9/17 9/18 offer [2] 8/10 12/13 I 165/2 171/24 195/15 I 175/8 175/14 175/25
155/17 167/25 14/16 26/16 30/1 offered [1] 194/4 206/7 184/18 185/25 187/8
note/email [1] 111/20] 35/20 72/2 72/16 offers [7] 8/8 23/12 IOfficer [9] 11/13 79/2I 188/7 188/13 189/21
noted [16] 17/18 74/19 83/6 84/15 85/9} 49/18 167/22 168/6 I 91/23 91/23 178/22 I 196/3 196/11 203/1
18/25 20/19 20/21 94/5 97/23 98/3 98/10) 168/20 211/22 188/5 188/18 193/18 I 203/17 203/17 203/21
45/5 45/14 48/13 103/17 149/16 149/23] office [173] 3/3 3/19 I 206/14 204/12 204/19 205/14
50/19 103/2 134/7 155/15 166/9 166/10 I 4/22 5/23 7/13 7/23 I offices [9] 39/25 40/1I 205/19 206/1 206/4
134/10 134/13 134/15} 170/12 171/16 177/3 I 8/3 8/19 11/12 11/14 I 76/16 151/10 151/25 I 206/10 206/18 207/12
1463/3 179/11 180/18 I 179/14 181/9 188/5 I 11/20 11/22 12/9 14/4) 202/12 202/18 205/10I 207/17 209/12 209/21
notes [4] 37/7 37/16 I 193/4 195/7 19/1 I 16/3 17/4 24/9 23/10 I 205/25 209/24 210/13 210/14]
106/18 159/12 201/3 202/23 23/18 25/7 30/12 33/8 officials [6] 8/11 8/14] 210/16 211/4 212/11
nothing [20] 13/23 IRumber 1 [1] 166/9 I 36/24 40/8 41/14 9/12 134/11 141/19 I 212/13
14/11 27/17 29/20. IRumber 2 [1] 166/10 I 43/15 43/18 45/11 I 195/5 ones [2] 151/19
75/12 78/5 78/9 78/14 /nuMber 4 [1] 177/3 I 45/22 49/22 50/13 often [10] 122/4 190/23
81/2 82/18 88/19 96/3/hUMber 5 [2] 9/17 I 55/2 59/17 66/11 122/5 124/12 136/15 IOnline [1] 207/11
4142 11118 121/7 I 84/15 66/15 66/16 66/17 I 182/3 182/22 183/4_ I only [35] 10/17 17/24
427/25 138/1 1586/3. IRUMber 6 [1] 918 I 67/14 72/12 74/16 I 184/24 195/8 205/19 I 22/3 58/2 58/16 61/2
4158/5 197/22 numbers [10] 14/25 I 74/23 76/20 82/22 Ioh [9] 79/14 122/1 I 69/2 71/10 79/3 84/11
notice [2] 113/20 39/2 39/19 39/19 41/1] 84/17 89/11 90/11 I 126/11 129/14 136/21I 87/15 88/24 95/13
134/8 99/13 152/20 152/24 I 90/17 93/12 93/22 _I 152/21 166/2 191/24 I 98/24 99/8 99/10
notification [1] 92/24] 11/4 175/20 94/18 95/6 95/13 98/8] 200/10 111/4 119/17 126/23
notified [2] 20/13 (numbs [1] 86/10 98/17 98/18 10/8 IOHC [3] 185/19 128/2 129/17 131/10
92/25 O. I 100/19 101/18 101/24) 18674 212/6 135/24 141/1 141/11
notify [1] 21/1 <___} 102/4 102/8 103/22 okay [11] 23/23 24/1 I 141/17 154/23 159/21
noting [1] 45/24 objective [2] 9/2 104/14 104/16 105/11 I 81/1 100/25 101/5 I 178/13 200/20 203/5
notwithstanding [1] 189/18 105/15 107/15 111/10I 114/4 122/23 174/2 I 205/12 205/18 211/12
196/68 objectives [3] 8/20 I 122/19 125/2 125/8 I 206/20 206/21 208/16] 211/13
November [9] 11/5. I 161/13 161/14 134/3 134/6 134/17 Iold [3] 2/24 176/20 I onto [6] 1/25 36/9
57/23 60/3 85/18 observations [2] 134/20 137/4 137/14 I 210/2 51/23 107/25 203/24
85/19 90/3 92/9 55/4 84/20 137/21 138/3 140/24 Ion [373] 209/25
158/16 159/1 obsessions [1] 141/25 143/3 143/15 Ionce [13] 12/5 12/23 Iopen [12] 44/24
now [80] 12/10 13/1 175/11 143/16 144/16 144/23] 20/4 50/17 54/19 45/21 65/18 73/19
18/16 19/20 23/24 IOPtained [1] 97/22 I 145/24 146/9 146/11 I 54/20 74/19 76/22 I 77/6 111/15 198/14
24117 40/7 41/10 {obvious [5] 4/18 146/12 146/22 146/23I 138/24 165/24 185/14] 199/18 201/16 205/1
44/19 49/10 53/6 54/1] 40/16 104/12 104/13 I 148/20 149/25 150/2 I 188/13 195/25 205/10 205/25
61/23 72121 73/22, I 204/17 150/6 150/10 150/14 Ione [125] 10/23 12/8 Iopened [2] 34/25
76/12 77/22 79/4 obviously [20] 13/24 I 151/17 151/21 152/4 I 18/18 21/13 21/16 89/16
79/24 82/7 84/20 29/22 33/20 73/11 152/12 154/1 155/6 I 21/17 22/8 24/15 opening [1] 35/24
85/16 85/17 85/18 89/19 115/16 121/20 I 155/20 156/5 157/19 I 25/22 25/22 29/17 openly [3] 76/5 77/25,
88/13 89/12 91/4 93/4 133/18 139/7 141/3 I 161/8 163/9 166/11 I 29/18 33/14 33/19 173/8
98/16 99/11 101/5 161/23 162/8 162/18 I 167/21 170/21 171/10] 34/21 37/20 40/5 operandi [1] 189/15
103/10 106/9 106/10 167/7 172/8 180/3 171/16 171/21 173/1 I 41/17 41/22 42/8 45/7I operate [1] 205/4
410/18 117/24 121/14 1814/5 187/21 188/15 I 173/7 173/11 173/13 I 56/17 58/2 59/17 operated [2] 182/24
4122/9 123/19 124/25 212/15 176/2 178/1 180/3 61/20 62/2 63/8 63/17I 212/6
occasion [3] 19/23 I 181/16 182/24 183/5 I 66/20 67/13 69/2 70/3I operates [1] 73/16
(78) normal... - operates
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
° 210/23 211/14 212/12] ourselves [2] 34/25 overnight [1] 184/15 Ipage 12 [1] 158/19
a ating TR) 124/91 I 212/20 214/1 196/20 overrule [1] 58/16 I page 2 [5] 55/9 85/20
operating (6) 9 order [11] 8/15 20/21 I out [89] 7/8 7/12 7/13I overseeing [3] 36/24I 90/22 114/2 174/4
206/14 207/13 48/17 71/13 81/25 I 8/1 8/2 12/14 12/19 I 37/4 211/19 page 24 [1] 170/5
operational [a] 141/2I 87/23 150/3 17216 I 16/14 16/20 23/12 oversight [2] 174/15 Ipage 3 [12] 10/13
Pt 178/25 183/1 212/7 I 24/8 25/2 26/1 26/5 I 183/22 12/19 17/25 24/20
taoion tanita soaiee organisation [13] 26/7 30/22 36/12 overtaken [1] 103/19 I 24/20 63/22 85/20
212/5 7/21 16/2 16/24 33/12) 37/24 41/21 46/19 overturn [3] 93/23 138/10 142/24 174/5
operations [7] 114/4 35/9 67/18 83/1 84/6 I 53/18 55/17 57/14 95/12 104/2 206/12 207/22
1450/3 174/18 175/2 85/11 87/7 87/13 60/12 60/17 61/3 62/4/ overturned [8] 8/13 Ipage 4 [4] 102/9
1476/9 177/9 192/7 107/1 134/21 63/22 64/22 71/17 143/6 157/6 157/14 102/14 106/13 180/15)
operators [1] 44/3 organisation's [1] 77/18 81/16 81/18 182/25 185/16 186/6 I page 5 [3] 140/2
opinion [2] 61/9 161/13 82/22 83/21 84/9 87/1I 211/20 140/5 140/6
212/12 organisations [2] 87/22 88/10 88/11 overturning [1] 104/8I page 6 [2] 36/10
opinions [1] 182/4 45/25 83/7 90/14 90/18 94/16 overview [2] 6/24 102/2
opportunity [5] 15/18 original [1] 49/17 96/15 97/10 97/16 80/18 page 83 [1] 1/16
Bett 142/16 147/25 Originally [1] 194/4 I 103/13 107/7 108/24 Ioverwhelming [1] _ I page 9 [4] 20/1 144/8
159/16 originated [1] 195/24I 110/10 111/15 115/25) 36/21 144/13 178/23
origins [1] 143/9 117/6 119/11 119/13 Iowe [3] 35/4 35/5 I pager [1] 103/15
vee [2] 97/21 ostensibly [1] 66/13 I 124/19 127/6 132/9 I 35/11 paid [9] 13/1 14/2
opposed [1] 124/2 [ether [50] 2/13 8/6 I 132/15 135/10 145/21] owed [6] 35/4 35/13 I 46/13 51/4 52/19
opted Tt] 44/25 8/18 20/22 21/13 146/7 146/11 146/12 I 87/2 87/16 88/24 109/22 184/17 186/21
optimal [1] 19/4 24/12 25/23 32/3 151/1 152/16 162/5 I 191/14 204/17
option [1] 69/2 32/22 39/1 42/11 166/23 174/11 175/16] owing [3] 86/21 painful [1] 186/6
P 56/19 60/10 63/9 177/10 178/2 184/2 I 89/24 90/11 paper [1] 180/21
options [4] 40/13
48/12 49/2 179/17 64/24 66/13 70/17 192/1 192/2 192/7 own [15] 74/24 82/8 I papers [6] 65/9 165/4I
options’ [1] 103/1 71/12 76/7 95/4 95/9 I 194/21 195/19 198/9 I 90/4 129/14 129/15 183/17 197/18 211/2
or [120] 4/5 4/24 5/3 98/12 105/25 108/2 I 198/20 200/18 201/3 I 129/21 141/5 148/18 I 211/15
5/8 6/19 17/10 21/8 I 112/16 119/2 119/4 I 201/6 201/10 202/22 I 154/25 188/19 192/12) paragraph [27] 12/20
21/13 22/13 22/14 119/16 120/15 124/23) 207/21 207/22 208/3 I 194/18 196/7 202/14 I 18/13 25/14 34/6
dor7 2219 24/21 I 130/14 131/3 131/20 I 208/21 204/3 36/11 36/12 73/13
O74 27/11 2718 141/1 141/24 150/4 Ioutcome [1] 95/22 Iowned [7] 14/2 54/15I 79/6 97/5 97/10 97/16
58/23 28/23 30/6 34/1I 152/14 155/12 167/10I outflows [1] 41/21 I 54/23 137/8 150/11 I 102/22 110/9 150/5
35/23 39/16 40/1 48/6I 176/1 177/16 178/12 Ioutline [1] 121/19 I 154/23 183/25 156/24 158/20 174/6
49/11 50/2 50/5 52/9 I 179/7 185/20 186/5 outlined [1] 158/25 ownership [1] 143/3 I 178/3 179/3 182/12
53/9 55/13 59/16 189/23 207/8 210/19 Ioutlining [1] 42/13 Iowning [1] 77/21 188/24 194/15 194/21
60/19 62/2 62/3 63/6 I 2115 212/22 outrageous [4] PI 202/6 202/16 207/9
64/5 66/14 74/13 [other's [1] 49/8 116/13 153/8 156/2 IF_ «207/22
74/14 75/16 7/8 others [10] 33/22 187/2 pace’ [1] 103/2 paragraph 13 [2]
62/2 76/5 105/16 outset [1] 210/12 package [4] 11/17 36/11 36/12
770 7/21 78/11 I 110/18 130/19 146/24] outside [3] 5/8 160/9 I 12/2 12/15 52/13 I paragraph 14 [1]
Bos aos cuot 15) 458/12 171/7 187/13 I 160/18 packages [1] 195/6 I 34/6
95/1 95/9 95/21 95/23) °therwise [1] 4/25 I outstanding [2] 20/7 Ipage [58] 1/16 9/19 I paragraph 22 [1]
96/1 108/10 108/10 [CUght [7] 42/7 60/7 I 103/1 10/13 12/19 13/7 17416
112/12 116/25 121/1 I 68/15 69/17 171/18 Iover [53] 6/89/18 _I 17/25 20/1 20/3 24/20I paragraph 3 [1]
4125/24 126/7 127/5 I 189/5 192/12 11/25 12/2 13/1 13/7 I 24/20 36/10 54/4 55/9I 12/20
428/22 129/20 131/3 ounce [1] 130/9 18/4 18/15 20/3 22/6 I 63/22 65/18 76/1 paragraph 49 [1]
our [52] 8/8 8/20 9/23I 28/3 31/1 33/5 35/10 I 77/15 82/6 83/14 156/24
131/16 137/6 141/5
142I/7 142/18 143/10
145/18 148/11 156/9
160/25 163/23 163/25)
165/10 168/11 168/22)
172/12 173/25 174/3
174/18 176/5 176/13
176/15 176/22 178/16}
178/20 180/1 182/13
183/13 185/10 187/4
189/12 189/19 189/22)
196/15 199/25 200/18)
203/1 205/5 205/16
18/15 18/18 31/22 37/19 40/6 48/22 83/18 85/20 85/20 paragraph 58 [1]
35/5 35/12 35/14 52/13 55/8 58/25 90/22 90/24 95/15 I 178/3
38/19 48/11 48/23 I 61/17 61/18 71/23 I 102/2 102/9 102/13 _I paragraph 6.2 [1]
55/3 55/6 55/15 55/19I 73/8 73/11 74/1 76/1 I 102/14 102/16 103/10I 207/22
58/10 61/21 66/23 I 77/15 83/14 86/21 106/13 111/2 111/3 I paragraph 62 [1]
68/9 74/24 75/1 84/7 I 86/24 88/2 93/19 111/25 114/2 138/10 I 182/12
88/8 97/7 104/25 95/15 105/20 111/25 I 140/2 140/5 140/6 I paragraph 7 [1]
105/3 105/5 105/12 I 112/25 116/7 124/19 I 142/24 144/8 144/13 I 150/5
114/18 115/5 115/6 I 134/20 142/15 154/18 158/19 170/4 170/5 I paragraph 70 [1]
117/10 123/2 126/23 I 165/4 176/13 177/25 I 174/4 174/5 178/23 I 194/15
134/5 149/2 152/19 I 178/11 179/2 183/8 I 178/24 179/2 180/15 I paragraph 72 [1]
155/14 158/18 169/11I 186/9 186/11 190/6 I 199/1 199/7 206/12 I 188/24
169/20 173/21 179/16I 193/13 209/18 206/12 206/24 207/22) paragraph 8.4 [1]
oes pov oouts. 183/9 185/5 185/16 I overall [4] 43/7 184/7Ipage 1 [3] 102/13 I 158/20
509/15 210/1 210/8 I 186/10 197/20 207/25] 188/17 195/10 103/10 206/24 paragraph 80 [1]
208/4 208/13 overly [1] 28/22 page 11 [1] 65/18 194/21
(79) operating - paragraph 80
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
P 105/12 108/8 108/12 Iperfect [1] 15/12 123/19 125/14 126/14] pm [5] 117/16 117/18
paragraph 84 [1] I 108/15 147/6 151/22 Iperfectly [3] 23/9 I 147/21 148/13 169/17 169/19 214/17
pats 200/7 98/13 192/3 pinpoint [1] 39/21 _ I point [57] 12/16 17/5
paragraph 89 [1] [Patch [1] 148/13 perform [2] 18/9 [pins [1] 172/24 31/5 32/19 35/7 40/19
D026 path [4] 77/16 108/17I 151/11 piste [1] 5/9 47/10 48/2 49/6 57/12
paragraphs [2] 27/25I 145/12 154/8 performance [10] _Ipivotal [1] 172/25 _I 57/16 59/7 65/13 68/5
poe pathway [1] 30/9 I 9/18 12/22 15/22 _—Iplace [26] 4/8 5/25 I 82/9 82/19 82/20
paralysis [2] 68/8 IPaul [1] 11/24 16/20 52/14 84/17 I 6/1 42/5 50/19 70/23 I 82/21 87/5 90/2 94/24
pried Paula [4] 188/12 85/6 175/2 205/16 I 73/14 73/15 74/21 I 95/2 100/14 101/4
parapet [1] 68/7 201/12 206/18 210/20I 207/24 80/19 118/5 119/14 I 104/4 110/19 110/22
arcels [1] 36/18 \Pause [3] 20/14 performing [2] 4124/1 132/17 148/15 I 112/1 115/11 116/2
eork 2) 11413 114/11) 190/2 192/9 151/16 181/12 148/22 156/23 175/19] 118/3 125/15 126/18
Parker [6] 3/137/8 IPaused [2] 211/17 [perhaps [10] 14/22 I 178/1 179/21 193/18 I 130/6 138/11 142/12
11723 16/9 28/8 212/18 22/23 26/18 57/10 I 193/19 193/23 194/1 I 142/25 143/11 143/16}
168/16 pausing [3] 20/25 I 106/2 127/8 140/2 I 194/5 195/18 145/11 147/2 176/11
Parliament [3] 96/24 I 21/6 27/3 152/1 173/25 193/10 Iplaces [5] 12/22 176/17 180/16 187/8
1o2/3 138/24 pay [32] 12/3 13/14 Iperiod [15] 6/25 22/6I 17/24 181/9 194/1 I 189/1 195/17 195/21
Parliamentary [2] _ I 14/6 14/24 21/24 59/4 67/12 86/21 195/12 196/6 197/3 200/2
144/20 144/90 32/16 32/23 33/20 I 86/24 87/3 88/6 plagued [1] 84/17 I 201/10 201/17 203/21
part [30] 5/18 14/20 I 44/9 44/9 44/12 46/2 I 126/15 127/2 170/24 Iplain [1] 68/15 205/14 206/4 212/11
24/26 3618 AAT 46/7 46/18 50/19 52/4] 172/7 177/25 198/13 Iplan [5] 37/5 41/8 I pointed [1] 54/24
55/15 70/12 71/2 7116I O2/7 52/12 54/3 54/9 I 199/17 48/19 75/19 179/1 I pointing [1] 87/1
79/18 B27 BBB 54/10 108/23 135/18 IPermanent [7] 5/12 Iplans [2] 208/1 208/4I points [16] 7/10 8/2
88/14 88/14 92/6 92/6) 159/13 184/5 191/15 I 7/5 7/7 42/8 47/7 54/2I plant [1] 2/14 9/11 26/16 31/6 42/11
108/4 114/18 119/2 I 195/20 195/22 196/16] 54/25 plate [2] 48/6 48/6 I 42/19 62/3 65/25 95/1
419/25 120/3 140/14 I 197/5 197/6 205/25 I persisted [1] 106/24 IPlatform [2] 9/20 I 103/14 111/18 127/11
451/23 151/24 175/23I Payback [1] 91/20 I person [6] 53/6 53/7 I 16/6 127/18 154/9 210/17
203/19 204/24 205/15IPaying [1] 130/13 I 78/24 80/20 130/18 [play [4] 25/1 27/2 I POL [4] 95/24 194/19
207/40 208/15 payment [2] 194/3 I 140/8 135/5 145/21 208/23 209/4
partial [2] 17/1 205/8 personal [3] 28/6 _I played [2] 106/2 POL00021583 [1]
1B7/12 payments [20] 5/25 I 154/22 182/4 135/8 180/12
Participants [4] 10/20 18/8 20/7 20/14I personally [5] 52/15 Iplaying [4] 50/15 — IPOL00142856 [1]
t49/1€ 169/13 199/5 I 22/17 138/13 139/4 I 81/3 83/6 83/15 92/17I 148/10 174/13 174/14] 206/10
joa/6 139/6 139/12 139/14 I perspective [4] 47/5 Iplays [1] 184/2 POL00253410 [1]
particular [13] 9/13. I 139/21 139/23 140/1 I 78/18 112/21 124/5 [please [81] 1/9 1/16 I 198/8
36/8 39/21 GaN 140/25 171/12 187/7 Ipersuaded [1] 20/24 I 3/4 3/9 7/6 7/12 7/16 IPOL00423699 [2]
83/21 101/25 113/14 I 190/2 211/17 212/19 Ipervasive [1] 84/18 I 9/10 9/19 10/11 11/5 I 55/5 173/24
131/14 141/18 165/17IPeople [63] 5/1 14/3 IPeters [6] 93/8 99/8 I 15/11 15/11 15/14 IPOL00446477 [1]
tea/7 196/7 211/14 I 19/3 26/2 29/9 35/17 I 95/18 95/18 161/25 I 16/16 17/8 17/9 17/21) 83/14
d 60/10 70/24 71/8 72/6] 161/25 17/25 20/3 2417 I POL00447866 [1]
particularly [°]. as 72/16 78/7 78/9 79/1 IPFA [1] 158/24 24/19 25/19 30/14 I 61/21
Trane 16D 136/16) 70/18 79/22 80/1 84/9I PFAs [1] 95/23 36/10 37/8 37/9 44/15IPOL00448302 [1]
Taa/1o 1647 154/13 I 88/2 88/10 88/10 I phase [2] 55/10 55/5 55/8 64/6 65/18 I 106/9
tse tors seriy, I 912291239419 I 17113 66/23 67/8 76/1 77/15IPOL00448381 [3]
tere tet 192 I 98/9 101/3 1089 Phase 5[1] 1714/3 I 81/19 85/18 86/10 I 97/3 113/1 117/21
2094 109/13 109/17 109/23I phases [2] 38/8 91/13 93/6 93/7 95/15I POL00448509 [1]
arties [1] 1785 I 112/19 118/22 126/12) 2110/3 95/17 101/25 102/2 I 81/19
partly [91 63/7 86/17 I 125/13 126/4 128/15 IPhoenix [3] 2/21 I 102/9 104/21 105/20 IPOLo0448614 [1]
eorter is} 215 3/19 I 129/10 141/24 153/2 I 79/24 108/8 106/9 106/12 114/2 I 158/19
Pape yas ania. I 153/6 157/8 157/20 Iphone [1] 118/20 I 118/8 133/11 138/5 /POLO0448620 [1]
parts [4}. 15/14 18/25 I 160/9 160/10 16/3 I photograph [1] 138/5 138/10 140/5 I 157/2
ful aE 163/17 164/1 164/12 I 144/13 142/11 142/24 144/8 IPOL00448621 [1]
party [4] 105/13 175/20 176/3 186/12 Iphrase [2] 185/3 I 144/13 158/17 158/19] 17/9
att ogrry 1g9i21I 18/5 188/18 191/23 I 185/7 168/2 169/24 1713 IPOL00448676 [1]
pass [2] 1518 150/16 I 192/5 196/8 20015 Ipick [1] 90/8 4174/1 179/2 180/12 I 24/17
aeceae 2} 198/6 I 20119 205/5 206/18 [picked [1] 34/21 180/15 180/17 181/14I POL00448680 [2]
rie 209/13 210/19 214/2 Ipicking [1] 202/1 I 182/16 199/9 206/4 I 10/11 11/5
passed [2] 18/4 70/5 IPer15] 8/8 49/18 picture [2] 61/15 I 206/12 206/13 206/25I POL00448689 [1]
passing [1] 87/4 49/24 49/24 50/2 50/2) 95/19 207/1 207/23 72/8
passive [1] 207/15 I 52/9 54/7 90/9 99/9 Ipie [1] 114/18 pleased [1] 126/5 I POL00448694 [1]
aot 18) 11/28 25/10I 99/10 112/23 159/21 Ipiece [1] 102/5 pleasure [1] 169/10 I 85/18
52105 64/2 65/20 197/7 207/14 Pineapple [11] plot [1] 132/2 POL00448699 [1]
65/02 79/03 79/24: [Per annum [1] 406/11 110/20 111/6 Iplus [2] 34/11 155/8 I 101/25
207/14 117/23 121/15 122/13I pluses [1] 76/24 IPOL00448701 [1]
(80) paragraph 84 - POL00448701
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
Pp
POL00448701... [1]
93/7
POL00448703 [1]
104/21
POL00448712 [1]
67/9
POL00448713 [1]
157/2
POL00448793 [1]
178/18
policeman [1] 110/15)
policies [1] 195/15
policy [3] 19/15
48/12 49/2
political [2] 94/13
103/20
politically [3] 43/12
45/14 67/19
politics [2] 27/19
45/11
poor [4] 43/18 88/2
104/10 171/25
poorly [2] 33/11
79/10
pop [1] 30/11
population [1] 173/9
position [24] 2/9
12/19 20/15 32/24
40/2 40/12 43/4 43/5
88/12 100/21 103/21
103/23 116/20 150/7
153/5 159/3 159/19
159/20 179/4 183/14
189/11 198/20 202/21
206/7
positioned [1] 27/21
positions [1] 154/2
positive [2] 19/1 68/1
positively [1] 16/3
possible [10] 13/12
49/9 50/12 104/5
138/15 139/19 151/9
152/12 152/13 185/22)
possibly [3] 70/6
70/7 101/7
post [194] 3/3 3/19
4/21 5/23 7/13 7/19
7/23 8/3 8/10 8/19
11/11 11/14 11/19
11/22 12/9 14/4 15/25)
16/3 16/9 17/4 21/9
23/10 23/18 25/7
30/22 32/19 33/8 34/3)
36/24 39/25 40/1 40/8;
41/14 43/15 43/17
45/11 45/22 46/9
49/22 50/13 51/15
55/2 59/17 66/11
66/14 66/16 66/17
67/14 72/12 74/16
74/23 76/16 76/20
82/22 84/17 89/10
90/11 90/16 93/12
93/22 94/17 95/6
95/13 98/8 98/17
98/17 100/8 100/19
101/18 101/24 102/4
102/8 103/22 104/1
104/16 105/11 105/13)
108/19 111/10 122/19)
125/1 134/3 134/6
134/17 134/20 137/4
137/14 137/21 138/3
140/24 141/25 143/3
143/13 143/15 143/16)
144/16 144/23 145/24'
146/9 146/11 146/12
146/21 148/20 149/25)
150/2 150/5 150/10
150/14 151/10 151/17)
151/21 151/25 152/4
152/12 154/1 155/6
155/20 156/5 157/19
161/8 163/9 165/2
166/11 167/21 170/21
171/10 171/16 171/18)
171/20 171/24 172/25)
173/7 173/11 173/13
176/2 178/1 179/1
179/23 181/16 182/24'
183/4 183/7 183/20
183/25 184/1 184/3
184/14 187/10 187/19)
188/11 188/22 190/4
190/8 193/25 194/4
194/6 194/15 195/4
195/14 195/21 195/23)
196/9 196/11 196/14
196/23 196/24 197/5
197/6 198/3 198/12
198/20 199/16 199/24I
202/3 202/4 202/6
202/7 202/12 202/17
202/22 203/9 204/11
205/10 205/10 205/25
206/6 206/7 206/15
207/13 208/19 212/14
212/16 212/19 213/9
post-GLO [1] 179/1
post-offer [1] 8/10
postage [2] 107/10
107/19
Postal [1] 18/1
posted [1] 32/6
postmaster [49]
24/14 52/8 84/6 87/19
88/15 90/10 91/14
106/5 109/23 110/10
110/13 112/1 112/6
113/8 113/11 115/5
115/18 122/1 125/17
140/12 141/23 142/2
145/1 147/13 147/23
148/1 148/6 148/10
148/25 153/6 153/10
154/5 161/2 161/9
179/18 184/8 184/11
184/16 184/16 185/6
191/14 191/15 193/24:
193/25 194/2 194/3
194/8 196/18 211/23
postmaster-centric
[1] 84/6
postmasters [114]
4/20 6/8 8/12 8/16
8/21 10/17 10/20 14/4
19/9 20/13 20/17 21/1
22/17 23/13 23/18
23/20 33/12 35/4 35/6
35/8 36/1 36/15 36/17
40/5 53/17 58/11 81/7
84/7 85/10 85/23 86/1
86/17 87/22 89/12
90/19 91/16 92/23
96/7 104/10 105/7
105/19 106/24 107/2
107/15 108/3 108/6
108/12 108/18 108/23
109/14 110/14 112/20:
112/22 116/12 121/24
122/6 122/19 130/1
130/14 131/5 140/16
141/21 145/16 146/7
147/13 148/5 149/2
150/19 151/6 151/14
151/15 151/19 152/14:
152/15 153/11 153/20:
154/20 154/23 155/2
156/2 157/5 157/13
161/5 161/16 164/16
164/23 165/20 166/7
167/8 175/21 176/4
179/9 183/25 184/2
184/5 184/22 185/1
190/5 190/9 190/20
191/9 193/20 194/5
194/13 194/24 195/9
196/10 196/13 196/22
197/7 200/22 202/14
204/3 204/23
postmasters' [2]
136/4 150/19
postponed [2] 46/8
205/22
pot [1] 196/24
potential [8] 46/24
97/14 98/2 158/21
174/8 178/20 193/24
194/2
potentially [1] 18/16
pound [1] 48/13
pounds [2] 48/14
108/17
pouring [1] 40/21
power [6] 26/11
29/20 108/2 115/22
116/6 134/5
powerful [1] 6/6
practice [1] 208/11
pre [1] 206/15
pre-dates [1] 206/15
precarious [1] 43/5
precedent [1] 25/8
precise [3] 139/19
144/9 199/12
precisely [5] 60/4
87/5 101/20 197/25
201/18
predecessor [12] 7/4
7/8 10/1 11/23 14/10
22/12 28/8 29/2 53/8
66/7 165/14 189/18
predecessors [1]
13/9
preference [2]
118/16 118/24
prefers [1] 44/1
premise [1] 94/23
premised [1] 197/19
prepare [1] 128/8
prepared [3] 29/4
128/17 191/1
preparedness [1]
202/4
preparing [2] 11/15
180/20
prerogative [1]
118/17
present [2] 12/10
18/5
presentation [1]
157/17
presentations [1]
65/10
presented [3] 95/21
106/5 167/3
presently [1] 13/1
press [3] 57/2 75/8
132/15
pressing [2] 13/13
142/7
pressure [6] 102/20
128/22 129/5 146/18
187/4 187/5
pressures [2] 141/8
156/8
presumably [5]
17/24 24/2 48/12
167/13 210/8
presume [1] 51/8
pretty [4] 35/1 35/12
170/19 212/19
prevented [1] 163/4
previous [5] 13/21
14/13 96/24 137/24
200/1
previously [9] 55/10
92/1 106/23 109/14
161/19 170/15 173/20)
194/20 209/12
price [1] 130/13
prices [2] 19/11 40/4
Pricewaterhouse [2]
2/4 2/6
primarily [2] 110/25
207/18
primary [2] 26/24
209/17
principles [3] 34/24
34/25 180/23
prior [3] 45/1 93/9
170/24
priorities [13] 7/14
7/15 7/18 8/1 9/23
15/15 21/21 33/18
42/14 49/17 53/1
54/10 62/7
prioritisation [1] 45/7I
prioritise [2] 58/22
176/12
priority [15] 7/9 9/7
11/2 23/1 24/13 27/12)
29/23 32/19 49/18
57/11 58/19 125/20
127/1 136/5 162/17
private [2] 63/15
146/23
privately [1] 109/8
privilege [1] 144/21
proactive [1] 66/8
proactively [1] 97/13
probably [16] 26/10
32/13 35/13 60/18
61/14 66/9 75/24
78/14 85/11 98/17
99/22 99/23 177/13
180/10 184/14 200/3
problem [23] 24/25
29/5 39/14 39/15
42/10 45/12 48/23
55/25 57/3 60/4 60/11
69/12 69/19 69/20
71/4 71/13 73/5 79/7
79/15 79/16 84/25
181/18 206/19
problematic [2]
14/23 86/17
problems [3] 47/19
71/24 191/23
procedures [3] 88/9
171/25 175/19
proceed [2] 57/24
149/11
proceeded [1]
211/21
process [28] 8/6 8/10)
12/6 16/10 21/12
72/12 95/20 95/23
106/8 119/24 120/3
120/9 120/21 121/5
121/6 146/5 146/6
160/22 175/22 185/15)
186/5 186/10 186/20
190/25 200/21 212/8
212/11 212/14
processes [1] 185/13)
production [1] 96/2
products [1] 176/3
(81) POL0044870T... - products
INQ00001189
1NQ00001189
P propping [1] 151/25 I 128/21 129/4 131/25 I 75/13 108/22 124/12 I 46/11 46/12 47/6
a 14) 40D 150/4 IProsecuted [1] 141/13 142/19 146/18I 125/22 126/5 136/13 I 47/16 55/7 55/17
prowit 4 eat 182/4 My g9/25 149/19 150/3 156/8 I 136/15 148/8 170/18 I 57/23 62/15 69/23
profitability [5] 40/20 Prosecuting [1] 156/25 158/17 174/19I 196/1 196/17 214/9 I 72/13 72/17 74/7
40/23 40/24 150/18 I 109/14 176/1 176/1 180/8 —_Iquotation [3] 140/6 I 75/23 77/23 77/25
4183/8 Prosecution [1] 95/5 I 185/5 187/4 191/25 I 140/10 140/18 78/24 82/6 82/18
profitability’ [1] prosecutions [3] 192/1 198/7 198/8 I quote [1] 162/4 84/21 86/2 92/20
406 6/22 171/16 171/22 I 200/16 quote/unquote [1] I 92/20 93/18 93/18
profitable [5] 151/9 prosecutor [1] 97/8 Iputting [11] 68/6 162/4 96/4 96/11 97/4
151/10 152/8 152/17 IProve [2] 88/24 113/24 124/23 126/10I quoted [4] 99/6 101/13 104/25 106/15
tsaiz4 yroved [2] 108/4 I 1688178120 1786) [en ttar7 12506 1237
prove
profound [3] 163/83 209/18 185/1 Ro 426/43 127/14 127/22]
program [1] 7/19 [Proven [2] 91/17 [PwC [1] 2/4 R2 [2] 59/13 72/21 I 128/3 128/12 131/2
rogramme [7] 9/20 I 12/5 qa. race ft] 78/25 136/25 137/18 143/9
On 19 ON provide [4] 104/6 racial [1] 67/16 146/24 146/24 147/17
477125 195/20 195/23] 174/14 204/10 213/11/QCs [2] 212/12 racism [2] 130/9 147/22 148/18 161/23
progress [12] 8/11 [Provided [7] 60/20 I 212/13 131/6 163/1 164/22 165/4
9/22 46/8 47/8 53/24 I 01/11 64/25 102/17 I qualified [1] 2/1 racist [1] 131/10 179/2 188/25 189/16
68/22 96/12 99/13 I 198/17 171/20 188/1 I quality [2] 65/9 65/15) radical [1] 16/23 194/14 197/18 198/9
114/16 143/14 180/25 providing [4] 64/19 quandary [1] 20/13 radically [1] 203/4 201/14 207/16
213/13 110/4 141/25 153/10 Iquartile [1] 12/23 raise [7] 22/1 23/21 IRead's [14] 11/24
rogressing [1] 6/9 IProvision [1] 135/13 Iquasi [1] 181/13 47/21 53/13 78/7 12/14 13/14 14/6
eee ereesively tt public [27] 12/3 14/4 Iqueried [2] 20/16 I 137/16 177/5 21/24 44/12 46/2
progressively [1] 14/2 14/2 27/13 29/8 I 50/18 raised [25] 11/23 I 50/18 52/4 52/7 54/3
37/19 54/14 54/17 Iquestion [30] 21/2 I 21/10 23/4 23/4 23/9 I 82/8 128/6 135/18
54/22 78/12 78/25 I 39/11 65/19 69/18 —_I 26/6 26/6 38/21 42/3 I readily [1] 36/22
81/14 84/9 84/19 88/9I 71/6 71/10 80/11 42/11 58/17 59/2 62/3] reading [3] 52/22
150/6 150/7 151/11 I 82/25 83/3 90/18 72/17 81/24 91/6 133/24 209/9
151/16 152/5 152/5 I 139/9 140/4 142/10 I 91/18 92/15 102/21 I Readout [1] 45/1
79/24 79/25 80/6 167/10 167/15 168/7 I 145/6 150/13 150/16 I 107/21 127/11 134/18) ready [1] 45/15
80/16 81/11 81/12 201/6 213/8 153/1 153/15 153/15 135/25 180/19 181/9 I real [5] 59/21 59/21
85/21 85/22 86/9 public's [1] 139/8 156/19 163/15 165/25: raises [1] 60/4 62/12 129/17 204/23
106/11 108/8 108/8 publication [1] 67/22I 166/9 166/10 167/6 Iraising [9] 9/1 19/23 Irealise [1] 118/17
4111/6 117/23 121/15 IPublicity [2] 97/6 180/2 180/4 206/22 I 46/22 47/9 47/12 realised [2] 28/20
422/13 123/19 125/13 143/17 212/13 212/22 87/21 89/6 135/25 167/14
prohibitive [1] 210/2
project [35] 60/13
60/17 61/7 61/8 61/8
61/17 73/4 73/7 73/10
74/1 75/4 75/15 7/12
publicly [2] 92/1 {questioned [19] 1/8 I 141/17 reality [2] 94/18
Teg) A721 M48r13 rage 2719 149/21 186/20. rallying (1) 1852 I"searta!
projects [2] 59/23 published [5] 12/7 165/11 169/23 193/12) ran [3] 35/22 47/24 I reality’ [1] 40/15
ol 53/24 83/24 142/14 I 197/12 201/25 210/4 I 48/11 really [52] 5/16 5/18
prompt [1] 11177 I 170/13 215/4 215/6 215/8 _Irang [4] 111/8 118/13] 6/9 17/5 24/11 24/13
rompted [1] 110/21 [PUI [1] 35/16 215/10 215/14 215/16I 119/9 130/6 97/11 35/18 39/9
aeomotly Li} 213/12, Pulled [1] 88/17 215/18 215/20 215/22Irange [2] 103/14 _I 39/13 41/18 56/19
proof [2} Let? Ipuppet [1] 29/21 Iquestioning [2] 189/25 56/21 57/1 57/3 59/24
eearte purely [1] 63/14 77/20 161/21 rapid [3] 36/16 55/18 I 60/7 63/16 65/14
purpose [4] 139/8 questions [23] 63/23 I 57/2 73/17 76/14 76/19
propensity [1] 104/7
proper [11] 31/24
81/17 84/2 119/23
120/2 120/12 121/13
148/2 154/4 161/14
139/8 170/20 179/8 I 63/24 64/1 68/16 rate [2] 65/9 151/7 I 80/14 81/12 82/25
purse [5] 14/2 51/23 I 149/15 149/16 149/19Irather [9] 50/8 82/4 I 83/3 102/11 112/4
167/10 167/15 168/7 I 149/22 156/13 156/18) 118/5 126/2 130/25 I 142/12 145/10 145/11
pursue [3] 89/25 165/8 165/9 169/5 I 132/1 176/3 181/4 I 145/15 150/14 151/14
4190/9 143/16 182/6 169/8 192/7 1939/4 I 186/1 456/17 172/5 174/24
properly [7] 118/13 pursuing [2] 22/11 I 193/4 193/7 193/15 I rationalisation [1] 1475/8 177/14 178/11
1506 147/20 15914. I 163/4 193/16 193/22 202/2 I 40/24 178/14 182/23 183/20
181/16 204/7 214/56 PUSH [2] 46/5 203/24 I 205/12 reach [2] 95/2 179/4 I 184/2 185/23 186/24
pushed [1] 120/5 quickly [4] 55/16 reaching [1] 16/7 192/16 192/22 196/21
Property [1] 2/19 Ie ushing [5] 119/21 I 170/19 188/14 191/16Ireacting [1] 106/3 I 203/4 203/7 209/23
proposal [4] 13/11
119/21 185/20 187/7 Iquiet [3] 99/12 reaction [4] 4/22 I reason [10] 22/10
proposals rN 13) Ae I 187/13 143/19 14/1 4/24 41/3 125/24 I 33/6 71/10 91/25
ropose [1] 67/24 pushy [1] 45/24 quite [30] 6/9 15/5 Iread [80] 8/1 11/13 I 98/15 152/7 186/10
propose [ Ia} 12/19 [Put [37] 3/8 5/3 21/10] 22/4 22/14 22/16 12/25 15/14 18/5 18/5] 188/6 189/3 201/2
eon 208 33/22 33/23 39/15 I 23/11 23/14 30/1 31/5I 20/16 23/7 24/19 reasonable [5] 98/13
ing [1] 74/23 I 39/18 67/18 74/4 32/13 46/14 48/5 24/23 25/25 26/21 I 112/21 189/7 189/8
proposing [1] 78/20 98/1 107/22 I 49/12 49/25 56/7 29/2 29/25 36/11 211/15
Propped [1] 151/21 I roi 418/9 121/8 I 56/10 64/23 72/4 37/12.41/17 46/4 reasons [9] 63/11
(82) profit - reasons
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
R recovering [1] 165/21 remaining [1] 80/2 I 140/23 154/10 175/24]
reasons... [8] 98/11_I 190/20 regarding [19] 11/17 IRemCo [3] 13/18 195/21 203/11 204/16
98/11 98/12 143/4_ [fecovery [3] 207/20 I 16/20 22/6 34/19 56/5I 13/19 112/2 replacing [1] 58/3
189/21 209/13 209/24I 209/16 209/20 59/20 62/4 63/5 92/16I remediation [45] 5/9 I replied [2] 20/18
recruit [1] 194/18 112/41 114/11 117/25 I 5/25 10/15 10/19 103/8
recruiters [1] 92/12 I 135/18 136/1 136/1 I 20/11 21/20 22/23 report [34] 12/7
recruitment [1] 118/6I 136/2 174/11 193/17 I 23/1 33/7 34/2 35/23 I 17/25 18/5 18/6 26/7
212/23
rebuild [1] 210/1
Recaldin [8] 20/18
MOrTg 36 ygei22 redress [19] 5/20 I 202/2 41120 41/24 42/2 I 53/24 61/22 61/23
459/21 185/21 212/16] 5/22 9/14 21/8 21/23 Iregardless [1] 79/23 I 42/23 42/25 43/1 _I 63/19 63/21 67/9
213/03 22/2 23/3 34/15 36/16Iregards [1] 47/15 I 43/22.49/1451/19 _I 67/13 67/23 69/24
recall [10] 6/19 14/3 I 411242/3.42/17 regime [1] 200/1 I 82/9 53/16 68/17 I 69/25 75/7 83/13
191181920 27/23 I 49/11 51/10 52/6 54/4Iregister [1] 1941 I 98/15 99/2 99/18 —_I 83/19 84/24 85/17
49/12 60/3 85/22__I 125/1125/3 185/10 Iregs [1] 38/20 99/24 125/4 1259 I 93/20 111/2 111/6
187/18 166/15 reds [2] 108/10 regular [1] 136/25 I 126/20 126/24 141/12I 111/19 114/5 115/1
receipts [1] 171/12. I 109/19 reject [1] 13/8 157/21 157/24 160/20) 120/18 127/24 130/11
receive [3] 4/11 8/22 Ifeduce [4] 150/17 rejected [2] 95/8 I 166/15 166/19 166/21) 130/16 131/2 139/18
e121 154/12 184/7 196/1 I 163/12 168/2 168/15 191/4 I 171/9 171/11
received [14] 410 Ifeduced [2] 186/11 relate [1] 41/16 210/9 210/11 211/21 Ireported [7] 57/23
THe 21 api1e 37/3) 194/6 related [7] 38/22 I 214/2 73/7 12516 136/25
52/1 65/10 72/23 [reducing [4] 16/24 I 43/20 43/21 43/23 __Iremember [20] 38/7 I 139/3 142/8 166/14
152/04 163/18 194/20] 22/9 40/25 49/3 50/4 100/25 140/22 I 50/2571/1472/1 reporter [1] 134/14
receiving [1] 57/11. \Teduction [4] 39/24 relates [6] 85/10 I 118/1 157/18 160/20 Ireporting [4] 120/13
fecent [4] 40/4 67/14I 88/20 185/8 207/13 I 85/20 95/5 108/14 I 165/15 167/2 174/18 I 138/9 13916 174/16
94/13 207/24 redundant [1] 189/7 I 108/15 109/2 176/5 179/25 181/2 I reports [2] 62/14
recently [4] 72/16 refer [5] 60/22 109/5 Irelating [11] 4/3 4/4 I 197/17 198/18 198/19) 99/20
TO3/16 1 Bt/22 244/18] 109/8 112/9 156/23 I 8/14 38/23 38/24 203/19 209/2 209/5 Irepresent [2] 149/23
seati reference [9] 1/24 44/22 123/18 127/3 211/7 153/24
en Here 'S I p14 43/22 49/16 128/7 140/24 181/11 Ireminder [1] 206/17 Irepresentative [7]
reckoning [1] 164/5 56/14 109/21 1414/6 Irelation [15] 16/14 Iremmed [2] 175/15 I 25/21 25/25 65/1
recognise [6] 109/11 170/12 199/12 18/19 34/2 65/6 90/3 I 175/16 181/25 182/2 182/6
130/20 144/49 144/25I"eferenced [1] 19/12 I 104/5 105/25 110/23 Iremoval [1] 114/12 I 211/4
1445/4 145/13 references [6] 10/14 I 126/1 126/16 127/10 Iremove [1] 134/6 representative's [1]
recognised [3] 31/14 10/22 42/14 42/17 145/20 171/2 207/7_Iremoved [1] 132/10 I 63/3
1431/6 131/7 130/8 131/8 208/17 Removing [1] 30/19 Irepresentatives [1]
recognition [1] referencing [1] 157/1Irelations [1] 4/21 remunerated [1] 213/10
207/24 referred [14] 33/4 relationship [14] 153/14 represented [2]
recollection [5] 34/22 43/14 49/4 45/16 45/22 62/6 87/9I remuneration [23] 79/10 162/24
61/22 72/7 106/1 137/21 137/22 138/2 I 11/17 11/24 12/15 reputation [2] 11/11
180/10 187/22 187/23)
210/25 213/24
recommendations
108/25 111/1 144/14 I 178/4 178/6 178/9 14/17 14/19 33/16 11/21
149/24 160/14 171/19] 178/13 180/18 181/3 I 33/19 52/21 54/16 reputational [1] 40/8
171/23 181/15 67/25 152/25 153/16 Ireputationally [1]
1 Rencrneaboy ial referring [3] 43/21 I relationships [2] 179/19 184/8 184/12 I 67/19
94/13 104/20 112/10 64/17 64/22 184/16 184/17 185/6 Irequest [6] 40/22
recommended [1] refers [2] 56/10 relative [1] 46/25 190/5 194/12 195/9 I 43/17 47/13 89/20
74/25 109/23 relatively [6] 129/10 I 196/18 197/8 89/25 95/25
reconciliation [1] reflect [4] 62/24 173/12 181/5 185/19 Irenegotiated [1] requested [2] 20/14
87/14 192/19 196/11 199/22] 188/15 195/8 207/11 104/25
reconciling [2] reflected [4] 35/15 {relevant [5] 53/21 rep [1] 148/11 require [5] 4/6 32/11
153/21 176/6 47/7 50/12 107/24 94/4 95/19 170/20 repay [2] 50/21 51/3 I 36/14 36/19 84/12
record [8] 42/4 42/12I"eflecting [4] 30/10 I 198/23 repaying [1] 20/17 I required [10] 4/9
43/6 51/22 63/16 86/17 134/20 162/8 [reliance [1] 97/22 repayments [3] 39/25 41/14 64/5
109/24 110/7 134/12 Ireflective [1] 8/20 relied [1] 206/19 20/21 20/25 21/6 65/16 76/17 76/22
recorded [1] 164/9 refocus [1] 150/2 relies [1] 195/3 repeat [2] 149/4 174/21 196/18 207/20)
recording [13] 43/4 refusal [1] 52/23 reluctance [2] 84/18 I 154/8 requirements [2]
133/17 133/18 133/20I"efused [2] 189/13 I 85/5 repeated [2] 55/25 I 187/12 208/13
190/14 reluctantly [1] 196/1 I 138/24 requires [4] 64/4
pane ono aItefuses [1] 78/6 rely [2] 32/1 58/11 Irepeating [1] 187/9 I 115/3 182/17 182/18
regard [22] 6/20 32/3Irem [3] 112/8 112/20 Ireplace [2] 36/18 requiring [1] 125/22
records (5) 472 33/11 33/15 43/7 148/7 183/11 resent [1] 89/10
47/14 50/17 106/20 43/13 43/19 43/24 remain [7] 9/5 67/23 Ireplaced [6] 132/13 Iresentment [4] 192/6
66/16 72/4 80/4 81/7 I 98/19 100/2 119/11 179/7 188/12 188/13 I 192/10 192/11 200/10)
Bea [2] 186/21 81/11 82/11 87/21 157/20 182/10 188/15 202/9 resilience [3] 7/20
1490/4 108/8 111/5 112/11 Iremained [2] 157/9 Ireplacement [9] 16/1 207/17
115/5 145/11 149/3 I 202/23 32/20 57/25 140/9 resolution [2] 198/15
(83) reasons... - resolution
INQ00001189
INQo00001189
R 208/7 208/21 97/8 106/2 116/21 I 34/11 34/15 35/4 36/6] 121/14 129/12 152/22
resolution [ty Ifeviewed [1] 12/4 I 116/22 148/10 148/19] 37/18 40/23 41/5 I 15/6 168/1 202/23
foot reviewing [4] 80/22 I 161/11 181/11 181/13] 41/17 41/22 41/24 I 203/22 210/8 210/18
resolve [6] 9/5 69/23 \feviews [2] 172/20 I 181/15 181/25 182/1 I 42/12 43/3 43/10 I SAP [1] 180/5
Tad 7y34 78/9 I 172124 188/7 188/8 189/22 I 43/18 44/18 46/12 I Sarah [13] 7/7 30/11
204/58 revolved [1] 43/18 I 213/17 47/24 47/25 49/23 _I 32/5 34/4 37/17 37/18
resolved [2] 17/14 Ifeworking [1] 177/15]role' [1] 93/22 49/24 50/7 52/22 58/1] 40/10 44/23 44/25
Oris Richard [4] 106/22 roles [7] 25/1 32/1 I 58/2 58/4 60/7 60/18 I 46/3 47/10 49/8
resolving [3] 7125 I 116/11 117/7 159/10 I 49/8 79/25 1088 I 61/63/1263 I 136/19
Sere oor rid [2] 132/2 189/17. I 109/15 174/13 64/21 70/6 73/4 75/3 I Sarah's [2] 44/9 48/1
resort [1] 58/16 Ifidiculously[1] roll (2) 77/18 17/9 I 79/9 80/14 80/14 _I satisfactory [1]
respect [33] 4/21 I 14/20 rolled [1] 178/2 81/16 85/4 87/24 I 1781/5
eeenertai7 Fight [68] 2/22/10 rollout [7] 18/20 I 88/19 89/8 90/13 _I satisfied [3] 68/22
Taito 20/7 24/23. 33/7I 2/15 3/16 3/18 10/2 I 18/21 59/14 72/21 I 90/15 90/17 91/21 I 214/3 21414
36102 95/28 43/5 I 15/5 21/3 28/14 29/3 I 203/14 203/20 204/5 I 92/5 92/10.92/19 I Saturday [2] 103/13
aio aorta aang I 29/10 30/9 34/9 34/13Iroom [8] 28/17 29/3 I 92/21 96/1196/14 I 105/21
Bas 50/8 solr 81/3 I 4/17 36/6 37/14 I 58/2 120/4 128/6 I 96/23 98/6 98/10 _I savings [2] 37/24
90/25 92/1 96/25 97/7I 38/24 41/3 44/6 44/12) 158/11 183/5 212/10 I 98/15 99/5 99/8 99/9 I 207/14
TOD 1414/6 Meps I 57/4 87/11 60/9 67/3 Iround [5] 32/2 39/19 I 99/21 100/13 105/23 Isaw [22] 14/14 26/19
+6125 123/22 127/22) 70/1 70/4 73/2 74/24 I 118/19 145/16 183/6 I 106/6 106/22 107/20 I 49/15 54/23 66/10
4128/2 120/18 13616 I 82/13 83/5 83/12 route [7] 40/20 40/23I 107/24 109/10 11/9 I 75/12 84/10 96/6
1715 104/14 106/44 114/14] 40/23 74/18 74/18 I 114/9 111/13 111/17 I 96/18 99/14 106/5
respond [1] 114/21 I 113/10 117/15 118/6 I 94/16 149/11 111/23 111/24 112/10] 115/25 126/3 126/4
response [14] 16/11 I 120/18 121/15 128/25Irow [1] 184/19 112/15 113/9 118/18 I 135/22 136/25 139/15
16/14 24/22 25/9 132/10 136/5 140/15 IRoyal [2] 200/1 118/23 119/4 119/7 I 141/4 141/7 141/8
26/21 30/7 32/7 47/2. I 142/22 151/7 14/3 I 200/12 119/10 119/19 119/22I 161/18 167/7
65/19 86/13 94/14 I 157/24 158/9 162/15 IRTP [3] 75/15 75/18 I 120/2 122/2 122/4 I say [123] 2/24 5/15
114/21 17214 172/16 I 186/17 166/20 166/23) 76/13 122/4 122/20 122/21 I 6/25 13/15 14/11
responsibility [3] 167/5 167/18 168/18 IRU [1] 159/6 122/23 122/24 122/25] 14/15 16/17 16/19
122 3015 76/14 169/4 173/6 175/20 Irudely [1] 142/3 123/2 123/9 125/19 I 18/10 20/6 21/14 22/5
responsible [6] 53/7 I 189/4 202/21 204/18 Irute [3] 158/18 127/16 127/24 128/7 I 22/16 23/6 23/13
e820 107/9 114/16. I 210/1.211/2211/6 I 195/20 195/24 128/9 128/9 128/10 I 25/14 25/22 27/8 29/3
155/22 192/9 211/8 211/18 214/10 IRule 10 [1] 158/18 I 130/4 130/12 130/15 I 29/6 29/14 30/7 30/15
rest [4] 112/14 rigour [1] 65/23 rules [2] 103/25 130/17 130/18 130/19] 31/11 33/8 33/19
172/10 184/23 202/25I"ing [1] 105/20 195/22 130/21 130/21 131/9 I 34/21 35/18 36/12
rip [2] 42/20 51/25 —_Irun [7] 41/5 59/17 132/1 132/5 132/13 I 38/12 38/25 39/6 39/8
restricting [1] 43/8 I 5-65 [2] 197/5 197/6 I 189/24 198/13 199/17I 132/14 133/22 136/3 I 39/18 41/12 42/22
restructuring [1]
rising [2] 19/11 148/7I 208/5 213/16 137/1 137/24 138/20 I 48/8 50/7 51/15 51/22
risk [13] 11/11 11/19 Irun-up [1] 41/5 138/23 139/24 140/11] 51/22 52/18 53/11
result [3] 12/21 30/9 I 17/9 46/10 68/8 69/12Irunning [11] 31/8 I 140/13 140/25 141/14 53/12 60/18 60/23
resulted [1] 97/9 86/5 86/11 88/5 69/1 69/2 69/4 69/5 I 143/20 143/24 144/3 I 69/11 78/18 78/19
resume [1] 66/25 I 107/12 149/8 149/9 I 69/16 80/16 154/11 I 144/4 144/16 144/23 I 83/8 86/15 88/3 89/1
retail [11] 77/3 77/16 I 180/19 179/17 204/3 204/23 I 144/24 145/1 145/2 I 89/10 92/12 92/18
77119 77/21 87/7. Irisks [2] 68/7 94/22 Iruns [3] 58/14 60/8 I 145/18 146/6 149/9 _I 99/5 99/15 99/21
4123/4 176/2 176/3__ IFisky [1] 74/18 68/19 150/22 153/15 155/24] 104/8 104/22 105/4
4176/5 188/16 208/11 IRLIT0000254 [1] rural [2] 151/25 157/4 158/8 159/21 I 106/10 110/10 112/4
retailer [1] 2/17 37/9 204/24 159/23 160/9 160/19 I 114/9 114/22 118/13
retailers [1] 70/17 IRLIToo00256 [1] rush [1] 119/8 162/5 162/13 162/17 I 120/17 122/1 122/5,
retention [1] 11/12 I 1385 SI 163/20 164/13 164/19] 128/15 128/15 128/20
rethink [1] 74/6 road [2] 116/24 148/2I2_ ___I 165/17 166/25 168/1 I 129/9 130/8 131/12
retired [1] 195/13 Roberts [4] 107/6 _Isad [1] 104/8 168/19 169/2 177/15 I 132/24 135/5 139/1
retirement [1] 3/6 107/8 107/13 192/11 Isadly [1] 28/9 181/12 182/12 183/21] 139/10 139/18 139/19
retreated [1] 173/14 IRoberts' [1] 177/20 ISaf [13] 19/7 81/6 185/3 185/6 187/9 140/3 142/4 142/7
return [2] 190/25 Ifobustness [2] 55/6 I 89/6 89/7 89/18 187/18 190/7 190/13 I 142/15 144/6 145/11
194/9 173/21 106/20 106/22 108/1 I 192/15 196/7 196/22 I 145/19 146/4 146/17
review [24] 9/15 role [47] 3/3 3/10 115/2 123/11 130/3 I 203/21 204/21 147/2 148/24 149/13
19/15 62/24 63/10 3/23 3/24 4/11 6/4 130/12 162/17 salary [5] 13/25 150/1 150/5 153/23
64/2 67/25 74/21 6/20 10/8 11/7 11/15 Isafely [1] 94/21 112/21 113/11 155/5 I 158/11 159/19 159/19
g2/12 89/18 97/25 I 17/25 25/20 26/5 I saga [1] 86/18 194/22 159/23 160/9 160/23
174/15 171/19 172/23I 26/10 26/12 26/25 —_Isaid [189] 3/7 3/7 sales [1] 176/2 161/18 164/20 164/22!
27/4 27/6 27/7 2719 I 3/14 13/20 13/20 14/9) same [22] 31/12 35/2I 166/15 166/18 168/24
29/8 29/11 32/3 37/4 I 15/1 21/22 22/13 35/5 35/11 36/1 50/19I 172/4 172/17 178/3
53/15 63/3 63/6 68/15I 22/21 29/6 29/17 30/2) 61/3 61/5 65/3 66/19 I 186/14 187/21 194/15
68/21 69/11 78/10 30/5 30/6 31/16 34/6 I 102/1 108/22 109/18 I 194/22 198/2 202/5
185/14 187/12 187/14)
187/24 198/16 199/20)
208/2 208/2 208/4
(84) resolution... - say
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
s 158/18 165/13 173/24I 13/7 14/12 14/16 sell [1] 181/5 76/16 174/11 177/18
Say Ta) 2009/9 903/4I 198/7 198/8 198/24 I 17/11 17/13 19/7 send [8] 52/23 177/21 185/15 185/18)
oa evr 203/4 206/11 19/16 20/2 27/7 29/7 I 101/14 101/15 110/3 I 186/4 186/7 186/10
saying [35] 10/19 script [1] 133/24 29/9 30/7 31/6 31/7 I 111/17 111/21 122/23] 186/19 186/22 194/21
1020 48/20 60/11 scroll [49] 7/12 7/22 I 32/2 33/25 35/17 134/11 198/20 202/12 202/13)
8/24 9/10 9/17 12/14 I 39/10 42/2 43/16 _Isending [4] 14/17 I 202/17 202/19 202/21
ae ee ri ipee 4 I 12/18 13/7 16/8 17/12I 44/20 51/9 52/3 52/12I 46/14 108/12 161/24 I 207/21 213/20
tat 11710 11765 I 17/21 19/7 19/16 20/3) 53/8 54/21 55/11 sends [1] 114/8 _Isets [12] 7/8 7/12
qo1/12 125/10 12971 I 20/3 26/21 27/25 30/7) 55/13 63/20 64/20 Isenior [36] 15/2 I 7/13 12/14 12/19
1340 13912 139/01 I 30/14 32/7 44/20 52/3I 72/4 75/2 77/12 79/20I 30/17 51/3 66/2 66/6 I 15/14 15/20 25/7
tazio 142/8 143/22. I 55/8 55/12 56/4 56/6 I 81/21 81/22 82/6 I 76/7 78/4 78/9 79/17 I 63/22 76/22 97/16
487/18 187/18 1060/1 I 63/25 64/6 76/1 7/4 I 83/14 83/18 86/7 —_I 99/19 100/1 103/3_I 182/22
teat tole 166/24 I 77/1581/21 82/6 —_I 86/13 90/20 90/24 _I 108/3 115/19 117/25 I setting [8] 28/21 68/9
17618 186/16 189/17 I 85/19 86I7 90/7 90/20] 91/2 96/10 99/3 102/7I 12078 123/23 124/21 I 69/13 76/2 103/13
191/01 2041/5 208/18 I 25/15 102/9 102/21 I 102/43 102/16 102/21I 126/10 129/10 131/21] 172/5 207/21 213/15
says [51] 7/16 8/2 I 103/10 109/21 114/8 I 103/10 104/17 104/17) 138/12 139/11 139/20I settle [2] 22/14
OT ayy 1419 12/20 I 138/10 172/16 174/9 I 105/13 111/25 114/8 I 140/8 153/13 157/3 I 179/18
15IM8 16/8 18/13. I 179/1 180/17 200/14 I 114/10 1145/6 116/18 I 163/23 163/23 164/4 Isettled [2] 189/8
20/23 24/23 26/22 Scrolling [3] 7/15 I 117/19 120/10 122/24I 174/16 195/4 195/8 I 204/10
met aia aziiy— I 75/14 77/1 122/25 123/13 129/1 I 196/9 197/23 199/22 I settlement [4]
39123 43/9. 44/22 /Setutinised [1] 82/10) 133/20 136/22 138/9 Isense [17] 30/10 I 194/22 195/5 195/12
713 49/4 s9/8 eore [Scrutiny [3] 50/14 I 142/13 147/23 18/7 I 32/11 7o/I999/6 I 213/18
75/14 77/24 81/22 I 84/19 134/2 153/20 156/1 156/3 I 99/10 99/23 121/23 I settlements [4] 9/8
86/8 99/11 97/6 97/10 Scully [1] 11/24 157/22 167/24 170/24] 125/4 144/5 150/15 I 16/7 194/20 203/1
103/12 106/15 110/2 [Second [23] 6/1 172/16 172/24 177/3 I 160/19 160/24 168/8 Iseveral [3] 127/4
420/10 136/21 138/11] 10/12 59/14 62/5 __I 178/24 191/16 192/21] 173/5 173/6 200/10 I 177/23 201/15
4140/7 142/25 144/15 I 67/11 89/16 95/4 97/5] 193/8 200/10 200/14 I 204/25 severely [1] 68/3
146/18 147/1 147/18 I 102/22 112/7 133/16 Iseeing [6] 18/11 _I sensible [3] 175/5 _Ishadowing [2] 3/15
147/22 148/3 148/9 I 142/24 154/12 169/20] 30/11 32/5 191/13 I 192/1 192/2 23/23
taaiis 14a/ie tea I 128 171/11 171/14 I 209/2 209/5 sent [22] 9/25 14/8 _Ishall [2] 66/24
17177 17973 180/16. I 172/19 180/16 185/6 Iseek [5] 12/12 12/13 I 37/12 55/7 72/14 93/5] 128/10
207/10 206/5 207/18 214/12 I 14/23 105/18 113/23 I 97/3 98/20 102/13 __Ishape [1] 19/4
Sc [1] 172/20 secondary [1] 209/18Iseeks [1] 27/10 102/15 106/16 110/21] Shapps [5] 15/1 44/5
scale [1] 191/16 secondly [4] 36/18 Iseem [5] 49/10 79/20 115/4 117/24 122/11 I 52/24 54/20 54/24
scandal [5] 4/5 36/14 42/10 43/6 136/6 92/14 172/25 188/17 I 123/1 157/17 163/1 Ishare [4] 24/4 75/16
secret [1] 1391 Iseemed [13] 4/18 I 165/14 173/23 208/20] 96/22 105/11
seared ty 1642 Secretan [2] 76/18 I 35/1 109/20 129/22 I 211/2 shared [12] 8/20 24/3
See ese I 17/20 158/11 173/8 173/9 Isentence [6] 110/25 I 62/11 65/12 68/11
Seen cag [Secretaries [2] 15/2 I 173/11 173/16 vea/a I 11414 111"4 127124 I 77/14 TeN3 78M
55/1 189/23 190/21 201/5 I 131/3 165/18 81/23 99/22 159/5
sooo tt ee ST I secretary [45] 5/12 Iseems [15] 10/1 Isentences [1] 172/12I 163/25
151/24 173/14 199/16I 7/5 11/6 13/5 14/14 I 25/17 29/17 29/18 sentiment [1] 148/1 Ishareholder [26]
1499/20 211/20 213/17I 14/18 15/1 15/10 42/9I 32/10 32/18 52/3 54/3/separate [4] 76/2 7/15 17/18 27/4 27/7
schemes [7] 34/15 43/25 44/4 45/23 46/6] 77/19 89/15 122/20 I 76/12 99/18 179/20 I 63/2 65/2 66/12 66/16
425/1 155/4 155/4 46/9 46/10 46/15 126/15 133/3 145/5 Iseparately [2] 16/13 I 89/3 118/15 120/20
1486/5 212/6 214/9 46/24 47/4 47/7 47/19) 145/7 127/7 120/20 134/4 136/11
school [4] 2/24 2/25 54/2 54/24 84/4 seen [29] 22/18 September [5] 1/12 I 136/25 137/9 137/19
78/25 81/15 118/21 130/20 132/14) 32/21 37/19 39/20 3/13 12/5 37/22 92/5 I 137/20 137/22 138/3
scope [5] 127/5 132/24 133/4 133/13 I 45/5 48/5 49/16 54/20Iseries [1] 56/5 150/11 168/2 181/25
428/22 128/22 129/20 133/23 134/10 135/1 I 55/10 55/16 71/19 serious [4] 69/23 182/2 182/6 211/4
131/16 135/18 136/1 136/7 I 81/5 83/1 85/7 89/17 I 111/11 145/11 209/23I shareholder's [2]
score [1] 64/4 136/21 137/17 138/23] 91/18 97/3 106/13 seriously [3] 3/9 4/24I 66/12 118/24
scorecard [8] 56/15 141/18 163/2 164/9 I 109/1 114/4 130/3 64/12 shareholders [2]
57/6 57/13 174/10 164/13 164/16 182/2 I 130/14 136/22 137/18)servant [8] 36/24 136/15 136/18
174/12 174/17 175/4 187/17 145/21 150/21 173/20) 119/3 119/12 132/5 Ishareholders' [1]
1476/10 secretive [1] 75/16 I 184/6 208/25 138/12 139/1 139/11 I 22/24
scorecards [2] 56/21/Section [10] 20/4 [Select [4] 67/21 139/21 shareholding [1]
474/24 46/2 47/17 63/23 92/19 146/6 147/4 service [7] 95/5 182/8
scoring [3] 63/23 77/23 107/25 133/20 Iselection [1] 28/13 I 150/7 151/11 151/16 Ishe [45] 8/24 9/21
63/24 63/25 146/25 177/3 199/10 Iself [2] 117/6 148/19 I 207/3 208/2 208/11 13/20 14/22 15/5
screen [14] 36/9 sector [1] 12/3 self-inflicted [1] services [1] 152/6 15/20 15/20 16/8
44/19 55/8 67/10 secure [1] 70/25 117/16 sessions [1] 200/20 I 22/16 40/10 40/12
123/13 133/16 156/25ISee [92] 7/22 8/21 _ I self-interest [1] set [26] 8/2 29/23 I 41/5 42/12 42/20 43/7
9/10 11/1 12/15 12/20} 148/19 36/22 46/19 60/5 62/4! 43/14 43/25 49/12
(85) say... - she
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
s 22/8 22/9 50/22 single [4] 4/22 92/13 I 180/20 somewhat [1] 213/10]
eg I 159/14 176/1 111/20 111/22 snapshot [1] 140/16 Isomewhere [2] 96/10
sre 27) oe el show [5] 22/25 69/1 Isingled [1] 107/7 _Iso [329] 189/16
76/18 76/19 84/5 92/1 69/2 116/24 146/2 sir [46] 1/3 66/22 so-called [2] 108/21 Isoon [5] 10/1 26/7
92/8 92/10 92/16 shown [2] 20/20 72/14 87/24 94/10 109/19 68/7 181/6 210/15
92/19 92/21 92/21 24/22 100/20 112/4 113/15 Isociety [1] 27/2 sorry [37] 10/5 10/12
98/10 98/12 111/3 shows [3] 54/9 89/10I 117/10 117/19 122/17) software [3] 203/13 I 16/17 17/5 38/7 56/3
127/24 127/25 133/7 116/6 140/3 142/5 149/15 I 203/16 203/20 94/7 100/15 101/1
134/7 134/10 141/9 shut [4] 195/23 156/18 163/16 164/8 Isole [1] 134/4 102/6 102/12 106/20
1463/11 163/12 206/19) 201/13 205/11 209/16) 164/19 165/8 165/9 =I solicitors [1] 93/8 122/6 123/10 125/24
she'd [3] 130/21 SI[1] 19/7 165/11 166/8 166/16 Isolution [4] 45/13 126/11 133/15 133/25)
130/21 136/22 sic [4] 16/22 87/6 166/18 166/22 167/4 I 69/13 75/10 154/21 134/7 135/4 139/16
she's [1] 40/19 103/19 161/20 167/17 168/9 168/24 Isolve [2] 45/12 144/9 144/11 146/10
shelf [1] 74/13 SID [8] 118/10 169/3 169/10 169/11 I 110/14 146/12 147/5 152/21
Sheratt [2] 129/8 118/16 120/19 128/24] 169/20 193/3 193/6 Isolved [1] 71/16 152/23 164/3 166/2
148/3 129/6 129/24 132/4 I 198/25 199/6 199/13 Isome [82] 6/7 7/10 166/8 166/15 198/4
shift [1] 66/1 156/10 201/17 201/23 210/4 I 8/1 19/3 19/9 21/14 I 198/23 199/6 199/11
ship [1] 31/19 side [5] 48/11 124/23] 210/10 214/14 214/16) 26/9 33/1 43/25 48/2 I 201/11
shock [1] 22/14 130/23 131/4 143/20 I 215/10 215/22 55/4 56/19 59/14 sort [31] 5/16 30/22
shocked [3] 22/13 sides [2] 29/9 50/1 I Sir Wyn [4] 87/24 61/18 65/18 66/1 73/3] 52/12 53/18 59/14
73/12 121/21 siding [1] 90/19 100/20 142/5 164/19 I 74/15 75/10 76/6 78/1I 69/20 80/6 81/16
shooting [1] 149/6 Sift [1] 171/19 Sir Wyn's [1] 122/17 I 81/23 82/3 82/7 90/21I 91/12 91/20 120/25
short [10] 18/23 67/6 sight [5] 10/9171/9 Isit[2] 113/3 157/18 I 91/12 91/20 96/8 145/14 149/6 157/23
102/5 117/17 134/8 171/11 171/14 172/19) sitting [1] 196/23 96/12 97/8 98/25 164/25 173/8 176/7
154/21 155/4 155/12 sign [5] 14/9 15/5 situation [15] 6/17 99/13 100/20 106/2 I 177/7 177/22 185/12
169/18 201/24 48/13 130/10 130/17 I 11/17 12/4 12/11 108/25 110/21 112/18] 187/19 190/12 190/16)
short-term [1] 155/4 sign-off [1] 15/5 39/12 41/23 66/20 113/20 117/4 120/25 I 196/17 197/25 198/3
shortened [1] 208/16 signal [1] 110/3 73/25 79/23 87/23 121/23 121/23 126/4 I 203/13 209/20 210/16)
shortfall [7] 8/4 8/7 signature [2] 1/18 89/13 100/25 117/8 I 126/21 127/8 128/4 I 210/22 214/7
18/14 38/16 49/20 170/7 146/1 200/8 130/19 133/14 134/19] sorted [3] 71/21
67/18 191/12 signed [4] 13/23 situations [1] 175/12 I 136/7 136/14 139/12 I 81/18 146/13
shortfalls [2] 175/7 14/10 206/13 212/5 I six [10] 119/10 142/1 143/17 145/14 Isorts [2] 116/20
204/5 signed-off [1] 212/5 I 120/11 124/5 124/11 I 149/1 149/6 149/22 I 187/6
shorthand [4] 117/12 significance [2] 126/6 131/22 146/8 I 153/14 156/1 156/18 Isought [4] 49/22
shorthand-writer [4] 27/22 172/2 146/13 146/14 146/15) 162/2 163/20 164/21 I 171/8 198/14 199/18
417/12 significant [21] 11/11Isize [2] 19/4 43/13 165/14 168/22 173/10Isounds [1] 130/25
shortly [4] 16/11 61/4 11/20 15/18 17/22 skill [1] 76/22 174/16 175/5 176/17 Isource [2] 144/16
134/12 170/14 19/2 21/22 27/14 skills [1] 76/17 177/21 185/7 187/25 I 144/23
should [73] 1/11 1/13 39/24 45/10 51/10 skirmish [3] 50/3 189/10 193/17 193/22I space [3] 49/1 54/4
8/3 13/18 21/20 27/4 53/9 69/12 94/12 50/4 50/7 195/4 200/19 202/1 177/23
27/12 27/12 32/17 97/24 139/7 174/8 slashed [1] 74/8 203/9 208/18 213/8 I Sparrow [3] 197/17
41/24 44/2 44/25 179/11 186/7 194/8 I slight [2] 148/14 somebody [2] 118/12) 197/22 198/5
48/23 51/3 54/16 194/12 207/3 152/9 146/15 spat [2] 126/3 126/8
56/20 58/3 58/6 58/9 significantly [5] slightly [6] 96/13 somebody's [1] spats [1] 126/2
65/16 66/15 68/2 68/5 84/12 98/4 110/5 107/18 109/10 133/19) 135/6 speak [9] 21/1 81/22
7AIN2 TAI14 74/21 182/13 207/13 173/25 174/1 somehow [6] 5/3 92/4 103/3 134/11
75/1 75/19 77/21 silence [1] 163/13 I slim [1] 84/10 69/5 88/20 89/7 94/17I 155/23 168/13 192/13
78/10 80/18 81/8 silo [1] 75/15 slimmed [1] 84/11 121/13 193/21
82/17 83/8 96/20 similar [3] 14/9 slow [4] 72/4 186/5 Isomething [35] 3/8 Ispeak-up [2] 81/22
100/17 101/19 106/15I 157/23 180/12 186/15 186/25 4/6 21/18 22/11 24/2 I 92/4 I
1415/6 115/7 118/4 Simon [16] 35/22 slowdown [2] 18/12 I 41/1 48/9 48/20 48/25I speaking [4] 133/25
118/22 118/25 119/6 56/3 86/3 159/21 18/14 50/8 54/19 61/10 134/3 164/9 164/15
120/17 124/13 129/6 159/23 160/15 160/18I slowing [2] 125/5 68/17 69/7 71/20 special [4] 25/16
436/21 141/14 142/1 160/19 171/6 171/8 I 186/23 77/14 85/21 96/4 29/8 136/16 195/16
1444/2 146/7 149/7 171/20 172/13 172/21I slowly [1] 51/19 107/3 108/14 108/15 I specific [6] 11/23
149/11 150/14 150/16 185/21 212/15 213/23ISM [1] 45/10 109/2 116/5 121/1 30/13 39/14 74/17
150/17 152/4 158/18 simple [1] 172/19 small [9] 48/25 49/25I 142/3 150/8 153/17 I 161/11 179/24
1466/7 170/1 174/13 simply [7] 4/3 28/4 109/21 149/16 151/19) 162/9 166/21 168/11 Ispecifically [6] 7/17
184/25 187/1 187/14 184/3 186/1 198/2 171/16 182/18 193/4 I 176/4 176/15 198/10 I 53/13 74/13 74/14
1490/11 190/14 201/5 203/10 204/6 204/23 199/4 210/23 98/9 205/9
201/15 206/11 209/7 since [11] 23/23 38/1I Smith [1] 213/16 sometime [1] 93/2 I speculate [4] 132/22
213/25 214/1 53/25 67/12 101/12 ISmiths [2] 70/20 sometimes [6] 31/5 I 133/3 133/10 155/25
shouldn't [6] 21/18 121/10 167/1 184/19 I 154/17 112/15 112/16 152/22I Speculated [1] 133/9
188/11 191/1 193/23 ISmyth [2] 78/10 181/21 181/21 speculation [1] 5/18
(86) she... - speculation
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
s 15/2 15/10 34/22 I stock [1] 74/9 123/4 130/19 146/3_Isuggesting [2]
sposdy [iy Sata I 43/25 44/4 4616 46/9 Istole [1] 162/2 152/18 163/19 180/12I 100/17 203/8
Spend [11] 7/9 25/23 I 46/10 46/15 46/24 Istood [1] 75/18 4188/7 211/14 suggestion [7] 98/1
31/9 41/24 43/8 51/24I 47/19 48/2 54/15 I stop [16] 88/4 121/5 Isubjected [1] 115/3 I 110/19 115/14 120/6
74/8 84/8 185/12 54/24 84/4 130/21 121/5 127/5 127/16 Isubjective [1] 55/18 I 131/25 141/16 144/10)
186/17 203/5 132/14 133/4 133/14 I 127/21 128/2 129/8 Isubjects [1] 32/14 _ Isuggestions [4]
spending [31 38/22 I 139/24 134/10 135/1 I 129/20 131/17 173/11/submetric [1] 67/15 I 69/16 69/19 69/22
5/8 B49 14019 135/18 136/1 136/7 I 177/22 178/24 190/14Isubpostmaster [3] _ I 71/12
a 136/21 137/17 138/23I 190/14 190/17 91/11 155/18 194/9 I suggests [2] 27/17
spends [1] 41/14 I 141/19 164/10 164/13Istopped [2] 178/17 Isubpostmasters [28] I 158/6
Spent [7] 3/24 27/15 I 164/16 182/3 187/17 I 190/23 4/12 21/7 21/8 34/11 Isuite [1] 32/13
So 194/11 153/19 (State's [2] 45/24 47/4) story [7] 121/9 36/7 38/9 54/5 115/13I summarise [2]
154/15 182/17 statement [46] 1/12 I 130/24 131/12 134/9 I 125/16 126/1 126/2 I 193/20 207/10
spine [2] 98/20 4/20 1/23 3/14 14/15 I 134/10 134/14 141/24] 126/17 126/18 126/20I summary [9] 26/23
OTe 20/5 21/11 34/6 34/22Istraight [2] 140/13 I 126/23 126/24 132/3 I 32/24 32/25 33/3 33/4
spiteful [1] 12677 I 36/9.46/20 54/7 54/8 I 210/15 143/5 145/20 146/3 I 86/18 188/24 189/2
split [2] 118/24 1292I 60/22 74/5 75/2 91/10Istraightforward [1] I 149/23 182/19 12/24) 193/23
spoke [2] 18/5 102/17 105/6 150/1 I 47/15 153/14 154/2 178/2 Isums [2] 27/14 36/20
158/24 150/5 156/24 158/13 Istrands [1] 116/21 I 193/16 199/25 Sunday [4] 106/17
spoken [2] 60123 I 169/7 170/2 170/9 strange [1] 145/5 _Isubseribe [1] 162/19] 111/7 138/7 138/20
149/12 174/6 178/3 179/5 I strategic [13] 3/19 Isubsequent [1] 12/7 Isupplemented [1]
spotlight [1] 67/23 I 179/6, 179/10 17913 I 7/9 9/19 16/6 19/13 Isubsequently [2] I 17917
square [1] 200/16 I 179/23 179/26 180/8 I 21/21 42114 49/17 I 92/10 123/12 supplier [1] 87/9
squarely (1) 163710 I 182/12 186/14 188/24] 53/1 65/1 187/12 I subsidy [4] 48/21 Isupport [18] 11/10
SR [a] DOTY 1sa/21 I 192/24 194/16 198/21] 187/24 205/21 48/22 152/13 205/8 I 11/18 12/13 18/17
158/24 158/25 201/4 201/15 202/5 I strategically [2] 49/8 Isubstantial [1] 36/20) 44/24 56/3 64/19
staff [1] 71/18 206/5 206/5 59/25 substantially [1] 40/3) 92/23 97/1 104/16
stage [25] 33/25 34/aI Statements [3] 24/10Istrategy [4] 84/3 84/4I substantive [3] 50/8 I 117/4 130/1 147/6
Boag 44/8 I 150/13 198/3 200/25 208/13 102/23 170/4 447/19 148/19 152/11
Yenzagiia sing (States [1] 67/11 strength [1] 141/20 Isucceeded [1] 29/1 I 171/21 189/10
55/22 59/20 75/21 stating [1] 143/4 strengthen [1] 48/8 Isuccess [7] 11/11 Isupported [3] 130/13
88/5 90/3 91/4 91/7 _ IStatus [2] 25/16 strengthened [2] 47/1 70/22 71/5 72/5 I 161/12 200/22
179/9 62/7 107/13 149/25 150/20 supporter [1] 131/11
oeo8 VSO ontD Staunton [29] 1/6 1/7Istrenuously [1] successes [1] 8/4 I supporting [2]
1438/23 174/19 203/12! 4/10 1/11 10/7 14/8 I 141/11 successful [5] 46/7 I 147/12 202/6
209/2 17/14 17/19 45/21 stressed [1] 190/1 70/24 77/6 94/5 153/9I supportive [4] 90/9
staggered [1] 4/20 50/18 50/20 50/22 __—I stressful [3] 189/20 Isuccessfully [2] 9/19] 155/18 156/16 160/1
staggeringly [1] 100/3 100/15 113/2 I 191/7 192/8 16/5 supposed [2] 73/16
60/16 122/9 139/19 142/6 I strict [1] 150/15 succession [2] 47/17I 175/23
stakeholder [1] 64/8 149/22 156/21 157/10Istrictly [1] 81/24 47/20 supposedly [1] 157/1
stall [7] 138/13 139/3 158/3 159/13 159/25 Istrike [2] 14/3 130/5 Isuccession/manage Isure [21] 24/11 27/13
139/11 139/14 139/21 161/10 165/10 169/6 Istring [2] 33/18 ment [1] 47/17 28/25 38/12 56/23
139/23 140/9 211/18 215/2 33/22 such [9] 97/23 60/1 60/12 68/18
stamp [2] 175/14 stay [2] 120/16 strings [1] 51/23 103/19 106/3 114/19 I 76/11 93/12 94/24
175/19 189/14 strong [5] 47/21 90/2I 135/23 162/16 167/10) 96/21 147/6 148/13
stamps [4] 107/10 steady [1] 31/19 106/3 118/15 137/10 I 167/15 188/7 172/15 175/19 182/24}
107/19 175/17 176/5 steering [3] 73/16 stronger [1] 191/10 Isuddenly [6] 73/25 I 187/5 188/9 192/16
stand [5] 83/21 477/17 177/11 strongly [4] 6/3 95/3 I 79/2 106/2 144/6 213/24
148/14 154/25 177/16) Stein [3] 201/24 141/23 181/24 173/12 191/19 surely [4] 13/18 58/6
212/20 201/25 215/20 structure [6] 33/13 Isuffered [2] 8/17 144/1 160/24
standard [1] 64/5 stems [1] 84/2 85/4 151/17 154/16 I 126/24 surprise [4] 36/23
start [15] 6/24 7/4 Stent [1] 180/18 155/1 197/9 suffering [1] 163/13 I 63/20 76/10 137/25
24/19 30/4 37/8 37/16ISteP [2] 56/16 98/6 [structured [1] 180/23Isufficient [6] 57/24 I surprised [5] 21/17
51/18 54/18 102/7 stick [2] 85/15 122/9 Istruggle [1] 28/15 65/23 68/22 85/2 73/6 88/4 104/25
102/14 114/2 133/19 still [24] 26/10 33/25 Istruggled [1] 25/11 I 125/14 172/12 109/10
445/22 17114 193/10 I 47/11 47/13 67/8 struggling [1] 153/3 Isufficiently [6] 82/10I surprising [1] 21/25
started [8] 3/21 53/1 79/19 79/21 84/25 stuff [3] 116/13 126/18 172/2 172/12 Isurvey [4] 26/4 29/15)
127/14 133/24 134/16) 94/16 95/7 97/25 191/23 209/17 185/10 197/20 40/5 71/19
434/19 135/16 199/3 I 106/24 109/15 117/21Istyle [4] 35/16 35/21 Isuggest [2] 71/24 I surveys [2] 26/2
Starting [1] 28/19 117/22 128/13 142/23) 99/5 160/9 160/2 71/18
starts [2] 58/7 78/22 149/10 152/13 163/25I subcommittee [2] suggested [8] 91/10 Isuspect [4] 32/16
state [40] 7/8 11/6 184/20 184/21 190/12I 89/3 113/4 92/9 128/21 129/7 34/12 178/5 189/9
13/5 14/14 14/18 15/1 190/15 subject [12] 72/9 129/12 133/5 185/25 Isuspected [1] 172/10}
stimulating [1] 20/15I 92/25 115/19 117/22 I 213/10 suspended [1] 162/1
(87) speedy - suspended
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
Ss
suspense [1] 171/13
sustainable [2]
202/11 202/17
swapping [1] 210/20
swift [2] 8/22 9/2
swinging [2] 39/2
39/19
sworn [2] 1/7 215/2
sympathetic [2]
40/10 46/4
sympathy [1] 146/3
synced [1] 49/7
system [38] 4/19
5/19 18/20 34/8 36/19)
58/3 58/8 58/11 58/19)
58/23 59/7 59/20
74/12 74/17 76/15
77/18 88/22 96/8
97/23 104/11 105/3
154/4 154/6 160/16
176/13 176/13 178/1
179/14 179/16 179/21
180/5 203/19 203/24
204/16 206/20 207/3
208/21 212/25
system’ [1] 94/18
systems [2] 180/4
203/22
T
tab [1] 1/13
table [1] 29/18
tackle [3] 69/19
69/20 70/18
tag [2] 144/19 145/5
take [55] 12/10 16/23
22/13 29/4 30/5 36/9
37/7 37/16 41/25 44/8
51/25 54/3 55/3 55/16
58/13 61/21 62/16
62/17 64/12 66/23
67/1 67/25 73/18
74/18 74/21 76/9
76/14 76/14 80/19
99/20 112/22 113/10
113/20 115/7 117/10
118/4 119/7 132/17
143/19 143/22 146/20
147/3 150/24 151/1
154/17 165/12 169/11
170/19 179/14 186/6
190/8 197/2 206/4
206/10 211/22
taken [29] 11/7 17/24
37/8 38/10 44/14
44/21 45/3 51/11 53/4
58/21 59/5 68/23 70/4
74/11 74/16 74/18
78/3 121/1 131/4
135/10 146/7 146/11
146/12 149/8 168/20
169/8 176/12 191/1
196/1
takes [1] 41/25
taking [14] 10/8
33/14 38/14 54/6 64/9
68/7 70/3 71/8 95/6
119/14 148/22 168/6
169/2 212/20
talk [22] 5/16 42/7
42/8 52/24 53/15
57/10 63/14 69/8
69/11 69/14 70/19
75/10 113/7 121/24
129/14 153/24 161/4
165/2 190/1 204/2
206/5 213/24
talked [7] 31/4 35/3
35/16 42/6 52/21
69/10 189/11
talking [24] 5/17 6/10)
6/25 34/24 51/18 54/8
57/15 63/19 69/18
70/10 75/4 83/12
114/24 126/12 126/13)
128/6 129/4 129/15
137/19 153/16 155/8
181/3 181/6 191/8
talks [3] 10/14
167/25 184/18
tantrum [1] 190/16
tape [1] 162/5
taped [1] 133/2
target [5] 12/22
12/23 50/4 52/13
184/4
targets [3] 49/4
49/13 185/5
tasks [1] 7/2
taste [1] 130/15
taxpayer [5] 10/15
10/17 42/15 165/20
186/1
taxpayers [5] 8/23
10/21 22/19 53/16
165/22
taxpayers’ [8] 9/4
10/16 22/20 53/13
143/2 165/23 167/23
211/25
Taylor [8] 106/22
116/11 117/7 159/10
161/25 162/13 162/14)
164/11
team [39] 5/10 47/20
48/5 72/19 75/15
75/18 75/22 76/13
76/13 76/15 77/19
78/1 79/3 79/9 79/10
79/17 86/20 104/4
105/17 107/6 107/11
107/14 108/3 108/10
115/19 159/6 159/7
164/18 177/10 177/20)
180/1 188/12 188/14
189/4 192/2 198/12
199/16 199/23 200/15:
teams [7] 17/12
75/15 76/21 76/23
77/3 117/25 194/18
technical [4] 102/5
208/3 208/8 208/14
technology [3] 18/20
203/5 210/2
telecoms [2] 180/16
181/4
telephony [2] 38/15
38/24
telephony/Internet
[1] 38/15
tell [11] 10/4 54/20
63/13 110/14 113/3
134/3 153/25 167/20
181/17 189/9 206/19
telling [4] 118/14
124/4 192/12 194/14
ten [2] 29/19 66/20
tenure [2] 53/19
158/17
term [23] 15/24 16/20)
16/22 17/1 17/2 36/24
41/7 43/11 45/13
48/19 49/1 51/25
67/21 71/17 109/11
109/12 144/14 154/21
155/3 155/4 190/6
202/14 204/10
terms [49] 4/10 5/24
16/24 17/4 18/7 22/16
23/11 23/11 24/12
26/10 29/8 31/19
35/23 36/7 38/21 42/9
46/22 54/10 57/1 60/1
66/9 66/19 78/21 84/8
87/11 87/16 92/3
92/14 92/16 92/24
96/16 99/8 99/13
100/22 101/7 107/14
113/20 125/12 125/19)
145/13 149/2 149/2
149/12 151/2 151/3
154/14 165/4 168/20
188/19
terrible [1] 149/1
terribly [4] 108/5
117/3 122/6 143/21
terrified [3] 154/6
163/11 164/2
territory [1] 30/19
test [3] 197/20
207/19 209/21
tested [1] 68/4
testimonies [1]
164/22
testimony [1] 187/21
testing [2] 197/23
208/9
tests [1] 209/16
than [45] 4/6 4/8
29/20 30/20 31/15
34/3 35/14 40/2 48/10
50/8 52/7 52/10 54/15
54/17 66/13 70/15
72/18 78/2 78/24 82/4
95/6 105/11 118/5
122/5 126/2 135/6
145/25 151/13 158/12
161/8 161/21 163/1
163/19 167/16 176/3
178/12 181/4 184/20
184/21 185/20 186/1
205/16 205/17 210/19
212/16
thank [69] 1/23 3/2
3/9 3/23 10/11 15/12
19/22 20/12 21/5
24/20 24/24 34/5
36/11 44/15 55/12
59/7 61/20 62/3 62/23
66/21 67/4 67/11 93/3
96/23 103/10 104/24
107/25 111/25 117/9
117/20 133/17 135/15
138/10 142/22 149/14
149/22 155/12 155/21
156/15 156/16 156/16
156/17 156/18 165/8
169/4 169/6 169/11
169/15 169/16 169/24
170/12 171/4 173/18
174/3 180/13 181/8
188/2 193/3 193/10
193/13 197/10 201/21
201/23 206/3 210/3
214/10 214/12 214/14
214/16
thanking [1] 103/8
thanks [1] 44/23
that [1252]
that I [4] 37/2
that's [128] 3/17 4/5
15/12 17/5 18/25 19/7
19/12 20/18 21/19
22/4 22/10 22/25
23/12 23/15 23/19
25/4 26/23 28/8 29/6
29/22 35/19 35/21
35/21 38/13 44/18
45/20 46/1 49/21
50/14 51/5 54/20
54/24 56/10 56/24
58/14 60/3 61/21
62/16 66/9 67/1 67/15
69/6 69/9 69/15 71/6
74/22 78/2 79/9 81/1
81/1 81/2 81/15 81/16
82/25 83/5 83/12
83/13 87/5 88/3 88/17
93/24 94/11 96/19
98/22 101/4 103/8
107/18 109/9 110/14
110/12 110/15 111/23
112/4 112/8 113/17
4114/7 116/1 119/7
120/21 121/1 123/13
124/4 131/1 135/9
135/13 135/15 136/6
136/19 137/23 137/25
4139/7 145/16 146/25
147/12 147/14 148/21
4149/7 150/16 152/25
153/4 153/9 154/18
154/21 157/21 158/21
159/1 160/6 162/10
162/14 162/15 166/9
167/5 167/19 169/1
4170/5 172/21 173/24
175/21 178/2 178/20
187/22 187/22 188/7
193/1 202/15 206/12
2118 214/5
their [65] 4/21 5/24
8/19 26/5 29/16 33/9
36/17 40/6 45/17 48/5
48/6 52/9 52/10 53/9
62/2 63/6 63/9 63/11
67/25 68/6 76/14
91/15 91/17 91/19
93/25 104/10 107/14
107/24 108/18 109/15
1114/8 111/16 114/17
116/12 120/1 121/19
123/4 124/25 126/5
143/5 148/18 148/19
153/8 157/5 157/13
164/2 181/15 182/4
189/4 189/12 189/12
190/5 194/9 194/11
194/18 194/25 194/25
195/1 195/3 197/7
200/17 200/22 204/3
205/5 213/17
theirs [1] 148/8
them [66] 15/8 23/20
29/16 29/17 31/17
33/18 33/19 33/23
35/10 35/11 35/13
35/17 52/21 55/24
63/19 74/21 79/12
81/8 82/12 91/19
96/17 100/2 104/2
107/16 107/21 109/5
1114/7 111/9 112/10
115/19 119/9 119/19
119/22 121/23 124/16
129/3 129/5 130/6
131/9 137/19 137/19
145/1 145/21 145/23
146/4 147/14 149/8
153/2 153/24 155/10
155/14 155/16 161/2
162/2 165/1 167/9
168/6 175/20 182/7
183/20 192/4 194/1
205/5 205/25 213/18
214/6
theme [2] 148/8
188/17
(88) suspense - theme
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
T 54/16 94/15 109/15 I 143/6 144/17 145/3 [Thirdly [1] 166/17 I threatening [1] 46/21
appl 124/7 159/9 160/4 I 148/4 148/15 148/18 Ithis [393] three [29] 10/14
themselves [4] 824 177/14 183/10 190/11 I 149/4 149/5 149/7_Ithis' [1] 110/14 10/22 15/15 15/20
then [109] 9/7 9721, I 195/10 149/10 149/11 151/6 IThornton [3] 82/20 I 26/4 29/15 31/23.
TON 18/1 17/17 19/1Ithese [76] 4/20 9/5 I 152/9 152/10 152/10 I 83/11 83/13 32/22 63/8 64/15 74/1
terio 19/16 2023 I 9/12 9/22 12/21 14/25] 153/20 153/21 155/4 Ithorough [1] 87/4 I 77/13 116/25 126/7
a1)24 243 2716 I 22/24 35/22 39/2 I 15/5 155/17 155/19 Ithose [80] 4/16 4/23 I 129/2 130/6 131/7
30/14 30/21 32/22 39/18 41/19 56/20 157/6 157/14 159/9 I 5/14 6/2 6/24 8/1 9/11I 131/7 131/9 132/3
34/4 38/1 39/18 39/23) 02/23 62/13 63/8 160/3 160/5 161/6 10/22 27/25 32/22 155/10 155/14 165/21
43/9 44/14 46/2 46/20I ©4/15 76/8 79/14 80/8) 162/20 162/20 163/5 I 41/10 42/22 53/7 166/5 183/8 203/2
47/17 49/4 50/10 80/22 82/15 82/22 163/7 163/25 164/2 I 53/13 57/17 65/24 205/18 209/3 212/12
50/17 51/15 71/3 87/5 87/6 87/19 88/2 I 165/2 174/22 175/4 I 71/24 72/23 76/25 _I thriving [2] 151/5
72/22 73/6 74/13 88/8 88/9 88/10 88/16) 175/5 175/8 176/2 79/12 79/13 79/22 153/10
77/23 78/8 81/19 88/23 97/21 99/12 176/6 180/22 181/3 I 80/1 81/3 82/2 82/3 I through [46] 6/3 7/10
86/13 89/1 90/24 104/9 104/10 106/6 I 181/6 181/21 182/5 I 82/7 82/10 83/6 90/25) 8/9 15/7 37/16 45/3
92/24 93/20 95/4 107/19 107/23 108/9 I 183/1 183/12 183/13 I 91/18 97/8 97/18 98/1I 47/24 48/11 52/24
95/15 96/9 97/16 108/11 109/13 109/17I 183/17 185/14 186/7 I 98/19 106/24 108/5 I 55/15 55/16 60/9
1404/19 105/5 107/25 110/20 112/18 117/5 I 186/12 187/7 187/11 I 110/23 115/12 119/13) 70/13 83/19 86/23
409/23 11012 114/8 I 117/6 119/1 119/14 I 187/18 189/10 189/12] 120/23 121/9 121/23 I 87/11 87/17 103/1
414/21 118/19 118/25] 127/11 129/2 129/10 I 190/23 191/1 191/3 I 122/12 124/7 124/23 I 118/5 119/23 120/21
T1924 119/25 120/2 I 131/7 133/25 134/2 I 192/3 193/9 194/10 I 126/26 131/8 132/38 I 121/11 121/12 133/20
420/12 123/1 123/10 I 144/10 145/20 145/24] 200/6 200/7 20018 I 132/6 137/16 141/13 I 147/21 156/3 187/24
4128/4 131/25 134/19 I 149/12 153/2 13/6 I 200/9 201/16 203/21 I 142/20 146/1 149/15 I 157/25 158/10 160/21
435/18 135/21 140/4 I 193/21 156/25 157/20] 205/3 205/4 209/11 I 149/19 150/13 151/15] 172/6 174/15 175/11
442/11 147/16 149/5 I 159/4 159/12 164/22 I 213/3 213/5 213/17 I 156/9 158/3 158/5 I 176/2 176/6 180/6
4150/4 15078 154/14 I 175/11 176/8 180/14 Ithey'd [1] 107/24 I 161/3 165/8 166/25 _I 182/21 183/13 184/9
4187/6 187/14 14/8 I 1983/3 191/24 195/12 Ithey'll [1] 206/2 167/21 168/5 168/17 I 184/22 187/19 189/23
16716 173/11 175/24 I 198/15 199/19 210/18I they're [16] 27/14 I 169/5 171/17 176/24 I 190/5 191/17 191/21
47616 176/20 176/21 I 211/24 52/11 58/1 60/2 98/16I 192/6 192/24 193/3 I 197/4
477/12 177/18 178/25 Ithey [188] 2/11 3/7 I 99/11 112/6 112/7 I 195/15 196/4 196/12 Ithroughout [6] 26/1
181/20 183/8 184/11 I 3/11 5/2 6/6 6/8 8/22 I 148/12 149/3 149/6 I 205/1 208/24 207/5 I 51/9 106/68 136/5
12/4 15/8 20/14 23/4 I 151/16 152/16 176/10I 207/21 161/20 182/10
Tees Teois tegrneI 24/16 26/11 26/17 I 204/3 214/3 though [16] 10/1 I throwing [2] 152/10
191/15 199/21 193/28] 29/9 30/4 30/5 30/6 Ithey've [5] 77/20 I 17/8. 33/25 44/11 I 155/23
495/08 200/14 201/13) 35 31/7 32/17 33/1 I 12272 149/8 154/6 I 45/15 50/12 75/6 —_I thrown [1] 74/20
300/13 208/28 D07/s I 41/16 43/16 49/23 I 214/4 78/12 84/24 87/24 I thwarted [1] 94/17
207/9 207/16 209/18 I 49/23 49/24 49/24 thing [19] 38/24 61/5 I 90/8 92/14 103/5 _I tick [1] 56/22
S10/17 210/21 a10/24I 50/20 52/19 52/20 I 63/21 70/21 90/8 —_I 128/16 130/25 133/3 I Tidswell [20] 3/15
2311/9 211/20 54/21 54/22 57/21 I 111/14 117/7 118/9_Ithought [66] 3/20 4/8) 18/25 20/8 30/15 32/8
there [2721 58/11 59/21 59/21 I 128/25 132/14 136/6 I 4/18 5/1 5/236/1 —_I 35/23 98/14 112/14
there'd [2] 34/23 I 82/1862/18.62/21 I 140/12 140/16 145/9 I 10/18 15/7 15/9 21/11] 129/13 129/18 129/18
TOI? 63/11 64/24 70/7 70/8I 145/17 146/13 154/12I 21/13 21/25 23/7 __I 147/19 157/4 187/15
there's 145] 2014 I 70/1 70/18 70/26 I 18/1 212/21 29/23 31/16 33/5 35/1] 158/9 160/13 160/22
DS/t7 oats 42/20 I 70/25 70/25 74/25 I things [40] 6/3 10/23 I 35/2 35/6 35/12 35/13) 161/20 191/4 21/4
ser 4813 b419 I 75/8 76/8 7/20 78/8 I 23/8 23/21 24/1 24/9 I 42/18 48/4 50/22 52/5] tie [1] 196/6
seria sazeo I 78107919 88/16 I 32/16 33/23 35/24 I 53/17 54/18 58/17 tier [1] 112/9
g2/14 63/23 76/23 I 88/19.89/10 89/10 I 42/8 51/23 56/25 I 58/18 71/21 71/23 tiers [1] 112/11
77g eile sia I 89/11 89/22 89/22 I 57/14 66/9 70/14 73/1) 74/2 80/14 85/14 I tight [1] 42/21
sing eioi gong I 90/15 9119. 95/2 I 80/22 82/15 107/21 I 89/13 89/14 92/21 I tightening [4] 18/11
96/11 1001 10/2 I 95/21 97/10 98/3 98/6) 114/16 128/18 133/7 I 96/18 96/19 98/13 I tightness [1] 42/22
T03/5 111/20 114/2 I 98/11.98/15 98/16 I 136/24 144/10 161/7 I 98/22 104/9 143/19 Itill [3] 91/17 116/12
16/9 116/22 116/23 I 996 99/7 99/8 102/25) 162/11 166/4 170/19 I 143/23 151/1 15219 I 17612
49/5 1309 131/12. I 107/15 108/11 108/20] 174/20 175/5 175/6 I 157/5 157/13 164/11 Itils [1] 176/4
14603 153/19 154/3 I 109/15 109/17 109/18) 175/13 182/5 182/6 I 168/17 175/6 17/11 ITim [4] 11/23 16/9
isa 160122 17773 I 110/10 111/8 111/12 I 187/6 191/6 201/3 I 177/24 182/9 186/12 I 28/8 28/8
178/20 178/24 187/23) 111/13 111/16 111/23] 209/5 209/9 212/4 I 186/14 186/24 189/3 Itime [110] 2/6 3/8
112/9 112/15 113/9 I think [268] 189/5 189/7 189/8 3/24 4/7 4/9 6/20
sere aoe. 206/19 113/11 113/20 113/24] thinking [7] 43/11 190/19 191/5 191/14 I 10/24 12/17 13/13
thereabouts [1] 119/13 119/16 121/3 I 43/15 58/16 68/24 201/15 210/21 13/20 14/19 14/20
55/13 121/20 121/21 121/21) 153/18 177/9 210/16 Ithoughts [2] 24/15 I 18/21 18/22 18/23
thereafter [1] 2/13 122/1 122/4 124/3 __Ithinks [1] 23/18 195/7 25/24 31/9 31/12
therefore [14] 28/3 125/7 125/18 125/19 Ithird [8] 40/5 41/20 Ithousands [2] 36/16 I 32/19 41/7 44/9 52/3
31/7 36/22 38/16 126/5 130/8 134/9 95/7 105/13 165/22 I 161/5 52/15 54/7 55/13 57/6
136/4 136/16 140/17 I 167/6 198/17 199/21 Ithreatened [1] 187/1 I 57/16 59/4 61/4 62/24I
(89) themselves - time
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
T
66/24 71/13 71/25
74/19 77/16 79/25
84/24 90/2 91/21
92/14 95/1 99/15
100/8 101/25 104/5
116/2 116/6 117/3
117/10 120/3 125/15
127/2 128/11 128/18
146/21 147/2 150/25
155/13 157/24 163/7
168/4 169/7 172/1
173/7 176/11 176/18
181/17 182/10 185/8
185/9 185/12 186/8
186/11 188/22 189/1
191/5 194/25 197/5
198/21 200/4 200/15
201/1 203/22 208/19
208/25 210/8 214/12
time-consuming [1]
176/18
timeline [4] 53/21
93/3 123/15 172/19
timely [2] 8/12 9/14
times [5] 20/9 134/2
138/7 138/20 201/15
timescales [1] 72/20
timetable [3] 8/7
85/16 176/25
timing [4] 45/12
48/19 92/3 92/14
TIS [1] 67/15
today [18] 30/18 53/1
100/9 102/25 113/1
134/3 135/21 139/15
141/4 143/8 153/4
155/16 169/8 169/20
173/20 174/7 185/25
196/12
today's [2] 92/13
170/20
together [7] 30/22
102/25 112/18 133/7
161/24 172/24 174/19}
told [22] 36/25 42/8
72/18 72/19 75/16
109/25 115/8 129/3
132/12 136/4 139/10
140/8 140/21 143/3
149/8 152/19 183/9
187/8 187/16 189/2
191/24 211/18
Tom [14] 25/3 25/4
25/15 26/19 26/24
time... [80] 63/10
128/24 144/10 145/15)
164/15 165/14 166/10)
177/21 178/18 178/22)
30/3 30/19 30/25
31/18 32/4 52/17
52/21 58/1 191/5
73/9 73/9 73/15 74/12Itomorrow [7] 86/12
115/6 147/22 147/24
148/1 155/9 214/15
tone [1] 106/3
too [23] 22/23 33/13
410/20 110/22 115/11] 39/16 51/19 51/19
53/18 62/14 65/15
73/20 73/22 74/4
125/22 126/15 126/18] 81/14 82/23 126/11
131/22 134/13 151/3
153/18 153/19 154/17 tok [17] 3/9 4/11
4/25 33/5 42/5 54/7
121/3 150/6 156/22
167/9 167/14 177/21
193/18
top [12] 32/18 33/14
44/16 44/18 65/17
71/19 78/23 79/1
90/22 127/1 155/7
162/17
topic [5] 155/12
173/19 180/16 181/8
188/3
total [6] 12/16 12/21
12/23 38/15 184/17
200/18
totally [6] 76/16
101/14 107/5 117/2
142/5 162/22
towards [15] 4/16
5/21 24/17 36/7 41/11
90/10 103/5 122/19
126/19 183/7 199/2
toxic [2] 78/4 110/6
track [1] 23/22
tracking [1] 135/16
trade [4] 7/6 18/7
18/14 148/11
trades [1] 196/4
trading [15] 42/24
43/4 88/17 88/19
114/11 179/5 179/6
179/10 179/13 179/23)
179/25 180/8 200/18
203/3 204/22
tragic [1] 146/1
trail [2] 101/16
120/10
train [1] 44/3
training [5] 38/2 38/5
38/9 38/11 38/22
transactions [1]
200/21
transform [1] 16/10
transformation [7]
155/11 155/21 180/10Itravel [2] 18/8 18/12
192/14 192/17 197/21I Treasury [17] 42/21
74/9 87/24 88/1 90/19) 183/1 183/4 183/19
touch [2] 56/11 190/3I 45/12
touched [2] 70/1 84/4I tricky [5] 30/19 31/15,
45/18 54/25 66/2 82/8] 128/15 129/20 131/19
77/3 151/24 184/10
195/19 195/23 196/3
208/1
transparency [1]
68/10
transparent [2]
179/19 200/22
transparently [1]
119/14
transpired [1] 61/6
Transport [1] 44/4
traumatised [1]
163/21
45/17 48/18 182/14
182/18 182/22 182/22
185/18 186/4 186/21
186/22 187/8 212/5
212/7
Treasury's [1] 43/15
Treasury/DBT [1]
212/5
treat [2] 81/8 196/12
treated [5] 8/21
112/7 112/12 149/7
199/25
treats [2] 196/9
196/10
tremendous [1]
115/2
trenchant [1] 159/13
ial [1] 162/4
trickier [2] 30/19
31/15 32/9 111/10
tried [6] 127/4 128/2
180/7
trim [1] 10/20
trouble [2] 169/8
174/24
true [6] 1/20 1/22
130/22 144/17 170/9
189/19
trust [6] 50/12 72/11
84/16 165/6 203/18
214/12
trusted [1] 107/2
truth [4] 61/3 127/18
130/23 158/9
try [10] 56/22 68/23
128/1 132/2 147/3
147/19 147/20 161/7
179/22 213/5
trying [16] 22/4 47/13
48/20 75/11 85/3
100/20 101/2 112/17
116/23 119/12 127/21
127/21 127/22 159/25
180/4 189/24
Tuesday [1] 1/1
turbulent [2] 116/14
117/13
turn [38] 1/16 7/6
20/1 24/17 36/10
44/15 52/24 55/5
63/22 65/18 67/8
81/19 83/13 83/18
85/18 101/25 102/2
106/9 106/12 113/41
117/21 122/10 133/11
138/5 140/2 142/24
144/8 155/4 170/4
180/15 193/6
15/10 88/10 181/11
turning [1] 194/14
Tutin [2] 128/8
128/14
twice [1] 149/5
two [66] 3/21 3/23
4/23 6/3 6/24 6/25
14/13 21/13 27/25
29/15 30/6 36/4 42/8
56/17 62/2 62/9 63/9
63/16 65/24 76/2
76/12 76/21 76/22
76/25 87/19 88/2 98/1
107/23 112/9 112/10
120/11 120/14 121/9
121/19 123/21 124/11
125/17 126/6 128/10
130/14 131/22 133/7
144/11 154/15 154/25)
155/9 156/9 161/9
163/1 165/10 171/11
175/13 184/15 184/19)
189/20 191/13 192/15)
194/22 203/22 205/19)
two-month [1] 6/25
two-tier [1] 112/9
tying [2] 133/7 160/2
type [5] 45/18 82/5
83/11 137/8 150/11
typed [1] 135/6
Typically [1] 97/21
U
UKGI [41] 5/13 25/4
25/20 25/25 26/5
26/12 27/4 27/6 27/7
27/10 28/23 28/23
29/11 29/18 30/2
31/12 31/16 32/4
32/12 32/20 63/5
63/20 64/25 65/6
116/21 118/12 121/12)
124/16 136/1 137/10
143/10 144/4 144/4
147/18 156/7 156/8
181/9 181/15 181/20
11/5 15/11 16/16 17/8) 28/23
178/18 178/23 180/12I unacceptable [1]
turned [5] 14/15 15/9/ unattractive’ [1]
112/11 115/13 115/17I 110/23 114/23 128/22
119/11 119/13 119/17I 133/25 134/5 155/23
182/4 183/13
UKGI's [1] 181/11
UKGI-nominated [1]
UKGI00044315 [1]
7/6
UKG1I00048147 [1]
1711/3
ulterior [1] 91/12
ultimate [1] 97/2
ultimately [1] 102/13
unable [2] 163/25
180/2
110/16
40/13
unauthorised [1]
52/19
uncertain [1] 205/20
unclear [2] 67/24
120/18
uncomfortable [1]
185/3
uncommercial [1]
205/24
undated [2] 10/6 93/9
under [25] 68/24
75/19 76/2 85/1 86/20)
97/25 109/16 109/18
180/15 193/23 194/23)
195/15 196/3 198/13
199/17 199/25 200/12)
206/25 207/22
underestimated [1]
68/2
underlying [3] 80/2
80/4 174/25
undermine [1] 25/17
undermining [2]
30/24 31/2
underneath [2]
141/19 144/13
Undersecretary [1]
77
understand [27] 6/4
19/14 27/19 28/18
40/17 47/4 56/15,
58/15 68/25 71/3
75/18 107/22 108/14
109/12 110/11 115/1
134/1 147/9 164/1
165/5 172/9 174/25
183/17 186/16 191/22)
193/17 212/15
understanding [16]
6/6 25/11 31/12 31/16
59/19 98/5 98/25
122/15 123/7 183/20
195/22 200/3 201/1
204/21 211/19 212/1
understands [1]
(90) time... - understands
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
U 137/16 169/12 170/21I 173/3 181/13 182/16 I 69/23 70/23 79/10 62/25 64/8 66/13 76/8
understands... [1] 197/21 198/2 214/18 I 188/25 191/11 191/14I 80/20 80/20 83/3 83/3I 76/8 106/7 106/18
46/10 i untouchable [2] 196/16 83/3 84/20 90/2 95/21] 106/20 106/22 107/24
144/25 145/9 use [10] 9/4 10/16 96/8 96/11 97/24 113/25 115/4 119/20
See en 2) zoygluntouchables [8] I 22/19 131/5 138/18 I 99/25 105/2 105/21 I 121/20 148/21 159/17
79/12 79/13 109/13 I 108/9 108/21 109/4 I 147/24 165/23 171/21) 108/13 108/20 111/1 I 174/10 174/11 185/11
109/5 144/14 145/5 I 172/13 186/8 111/10 111/17 113/25] vindictive [2] 87/20
tore sent 186/13 145/14 145/17 used [22] 21/11 123/9 123/9 123/10 I 88/3
untruths [1] 72/19 I 29/21 31/10 34/12 125/18 127/16 130/8 I visible [1] 178/17
undertaken [1] 86/19
‘ unusual [7] 14/22 I 90/2 109/6 109/7 132/25 135/22 136/16] visibly [1] 191/11
seein eb oar 39/12 62/17 83/4 129/24 136/20 138/1 I 137/8 137/10 137/11 I vital [2] 110/11 150/6
20/6 115/21 143/12 194/17I 142/17 145/6 146/2 I 150/10 150/16 153/2 I vociferous [1] 92/16
unfair [3] 196/4 up [99] 10/8 11/7 I 149/5 155/20 190/4 I 155/12 155/12 156/5 I voice [1] 99/3
196/14 49718 17/24 26/21 28/21 I 207/19 209/10 209/12I 156/15 159/17 159/18I volunteered [1] 96/1
unfairness [1] 197/3 29/16 29/23 30/7 212/1 212/13 212/24 I 163/18 169/4 169/6 Ivote [8] 29/18 66/20
unfortunate [3] 121/4 30/14 32/7 33/14 useful [2] 15/7 45/2 I 169/6 169/15 170/12 I 118/21 118/24 119/10
161/22 161/24 34/21 34/25 35/17 uses [1] 83/1 175/5 175/10 178/10 I 120/13 124/12 124/14
unfortunately [3] 35/24 37/5 41/5 41/8 Iusing [5] 93/22 176/4I 178/11 183/6 184/12 Ivoted [12] 118/22
25/3 25/15 133/2 48/25 49/7 50/1 51/16] 185/3 185/7 210/2 184/25 186/7 187/13 I 118/23 119/5 119/17
unfunded [4] 20/15 I 52/3 52/9 52/10 52/19Iusual [1] 120/9 188/14 190/1 191/12 I 119/18 120/14 120/16
unhappy [2] 52/17, I 54/6 54/7 55/8 60/5 usually [2] 214/12 I 191/16 192/8 192/20 I 120/24 121/3 124/6
eo 60/11 63/1067/10 I 214/13 193/3 193/10 195/11 I 124/8 156/10
unhelpful [1] 182/9 I 68/21 70/5 70/9 75/4 utterances [1] 213/8 I 198/3 199/11 201/22 I votes [3] 29/19 66/20
unified [3] 30/21 75/18 76/2 77/12 — Iutterly [4] 4/19 203/12 204/6 204/6 I 119/14
31/14 34/20 81/22 82/12 85/7 409/20 115/21 204/1 I 210/2 212/14 214/10 I
unilaterally [1] 194/6I 85/21.86/24 88/18) II tata 214/16 wo
union [1] 148/11 90/7 90/8 90/20 92/4 IX ____________Ivia [2] 17/12.95/8 — Iwage [4] 19/10 40/4
unique [3] 1/24 15/18) 99/12 101/7 104/1 I Ivalue [13] 10/15 viability [4] 15/24 152/25 184/23
170/12 108/1 1114/3 111/12 I 10/21 27/2 42/15 53/4] 16/21 17/2 17/3 wagons [1] 147/12
University [1] 2/25 I 111/13. 113/2 114/8 I 83/15 105/4 105/8 viable [4] 84/14 wait [1] 193/8
unkindly rip 166/24 I 1715/1 122/20 125/5 I 108/10 156/17 165122] 15014 152/2 205/11 [waiting [1] 114/65
unless [7] 13/18 17/3I 125/9 130/6 133/16 II 211/25 242/21 victims [4] 138/13 [walk [1] 51/18
80/21 94/21 182/18 I 136/16 145/24 148/13] Vamos [1] 93/7 139/7 139/12 139/22 Iwall [1] 48/22
190/9 195/24 151/21 151/25 154/11Ivarious [4] 14/16 _I view [81] 5/7 10/18 Iwant [32] 7/2 10/19
155/4 156/25 158/17 I 37/7 109/18 166/4 14/24 20/25 22/6 25/17 30/17 38/12
unlike [1] 175/15 I ago/14 160/11 170/21I vast [6] 18/22 94/19 I 23/12 23/13 23/19 _ I 55/19 66/7 68/18 69/4
unlikely [7] 3/20
1741/2. 172/16 173/24 I 105/6 120/22 121/9 I 24/4 34/24 45/17 78/8 90/13 90/14
Foro ou 87720 68!) 47673 477121 180124 I 132/6 57/16 57/20 58/4 107/14 111/20 111/22
unlock [1] 187/14 I 184/17 184/18 185/5 I vehemently [1] 58/21 61/2 68/11 119/7 119/10 122/7
unprepared [1] 189/12 189/24 191/18] 162/23 70/12 73/23 73/24 I 132/22 133/10 144/9
128/14 195/11 198/2 198/7 Ivendetta [3] 88/14 I 77/10 78/13 79/6 155/25 156/24 158/5
unprofitable [1] 33/7 I 198/8 199/6 202/1_ I 90/1 91/20 79/25 81/23 82/12 I 158/16 158/20 166/3
unquote [1] 162/4 I 205/1 206/11 213/15 IVennells [2] 201/19 I 82/14 82/21 83/10 I 167/6 194/18 197/15
unreasonably [1] 213/20 206/18 84/3 87/2 91/20 96/14] 198/6 205/24
7115 update [3] 102/2 Venus [2] 85/21 96/21 99/20 99/22 Iwanted [26] 26/20
102/8 102/24 85/22 100/14 101/18 101/19] 31/14 42/5 42/7 43/6
unrelated [1] 97/22
unreliable [4] 4/19
34/8 104/11 154/7
unsafe [4] 103/19
103/24 159/2 206/8
unsatisfactory [2]
Update’ [1] 102/19 Iverbatim [1] 198/10 I 104/3 104/3 104/7 55/23 56/22 70/19
updated [1] 114/12 Iversus [4] 55/1 66/20! 104/9 105/11 106/4 I 75/9 75/9 88/11
updates [2] 75/16 108/19 112/14 1407/1 107/4 107/17 I 107/23 119/13 120/23
213/13 very [127] 1/23 3/20 I 113/7 113/10 118/4 131/23 131/23 132/6
uploaded [1] 1/25 6/6 6/12 14/4 14/19 118/24 119/12 120/4 I 134/10 136/22 141/9
91/15 114/23 upset [4] 115/2 18/6 18/23 22/18 24/5I 120/11 120/17 120/25I 142/4 142/25 168/2
unsighted [1] s9/te I 125/13 134/15 191/12) 25/20 26/12 27/8 128/23 130/1 131/3 I 187/11 193/24 197/4
unspoken [1] 95/11 {urge [1] 13/11 27/14 28/24 30/19 I 133/21 144/1 144/22 Iwanting [1] 46/18
urgency [1] 19/3 30/19 31/16 32/9 154/22 155/17 158/10Iwants [6] 25/16
unsupported [1] lus faq] 32 11/18 I 33/19 39/11 39/12 I 158/11 158/14 163/25I 26/14 58/6 184/3
uneympathetic [6] I 23/15 36/4 44/6 48vt9I 42/24 42121 44/16 I t6arta 164/16 1G8/9 I 202/11 202/17
O12 bolt 34/16 50/24 59/4 60/25 44/23 45/13 46/6 48/3] 172/1 172/11 177/14 Iwarned [2] 76/4
63/13 66/22 74/13 49/15 51/17 52/11 181/14 183/9 186/3 I 147/14
atl [171 118 28/16 74/20 82/14 91/13 52/17 52/19 52/20 187/3 192/10 200/14 Iwas [875]
46/8 48/19 72/21 95/17 97/13 97/19 52/22 53/6 53/7 58/14I viewed [2] 33/12 wasn't [61] 5/4 14/1
110/14 115/11 118/8 I 59/21 59/21 59/21 85/11 14/12 28/22 29/4
121/17 122/15 125/6 I 59/21 62/13 62/16 —_I views [24] 26/5 51/16] 42/11 43/3 46/13
143/10 150/18 150/20I 62/19 62/19 63/12 51/17 53/19 62/2 46/16 46/16 49/6 50/2
83/24 91/17 108/3
127/20 133/19 135/7
(91) understands... - wasn't
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
Ww 203/23 173/14 175/4 177/8 I 135/16 135/21 137/2 I 189/25 190/6 190/24
wasn't... [49] 57/8 we've [32] 14/21 31/9I 177/24 183/10 190/19] 140/17 146/2 147/23 I 194/7 194/22 195/11
57/8 57/12 60/4 61/3. I 92/21 41/23 48/11 193/8 195/17 200/10 I 148/5 148/11 150/22 I 195/13 198/1 200/3
63/20 70/18 73/4 73/6I 2/16 65/3 70/13 203/4 212/2 151/16 152/1 159/1 I 200/15 203/1 205/11
75/11 75/24 83/24 76/12 79/24 90/16 I went [20] 11/1 54/12 I 159/20 165/5 168/1 I 205/14 205/22 205/25)
88/6 88/18 88/22 99/16 114/4 115/13 I 54/13 54/18 93/17 175/8 175/15 178/20 I 206/1 207/12 208/14
ga/24 gziggoitg I 120/6 123/15 1291 I 118/19 121/12 121/18] 179/5 189/21 190/20 I 209/25 211/16 212/14]
93/12 111/58 113/13 I 1394/9 135/20 135/25 I 121/23 128/13 154/16] 192/10 201/10 203/3 I 212/23 213/2 213/18
T1913 121/13 123/24 I 143/8 145/20 146/5 I 157/25 181/5 191/18 I 209/16 whichever [2] 43/11
4124/10 124/18 127/20] 190/21 152/19 155/15] 192/14 192/21 197/14Iwhereas [3] 54/4 I 151/10
127/21 128/16 128/17) 164/10 173/20 181/10) 203/17 211/19 213/14) 96/14 104/9 while [9] 74/8 113/2
4133/2 137/20 141120 I 191/21 197/1 200/11 Iwere [277] whereby [1] 204/24 I 142/23 148/8 155/16
468/24 1727 174/14 IWeak [2] 13/22 147/4 were’ [1] 140/17 Iwhether [29] 20/16 I 179/23 192/16 193/18
475/24 17717 17/8 IWeaponised [4] weren't [20] 24/16 I 50/1 50/4 51/3 57/11 I 198/8
478/17 182/8 183/58 I 92/22 129/23 129/25 I 26/17 57/13 64/23 I 57/16 82/12 82/22 __Iwhilst [2] 31/11 44/3
483/15 189/5 18/6 I 1315 68/17 70/10 88/16 I 94/5 115/6 133/21 _I whistleblower [1]
4189/6 192/4 192/16 IWeaponising [1] 121/21 121/22 161/6 I 139/24 142/7 148/9 I 79/5
200/25 155/22 175/5 175/9 175/13 I 161/11 167/20 174/20I whistleblowing [6]
waste [1] 78/12 website [2] 1/25 175/14 176/2 187/18 I 174/21 176/9 179/12 I 72/9 72/12 81/25 82/4
watching [1] 155/15 I 170/14 191/1 196/2 200/6 I 185/9 186/2 187/3 I 91/5 105/25
watered [1] 95/1 {Week [12] 3/23 14/21 I 205/11 187/22 205/3 205/4_ IWhitehalll [2] 27/21
Watt (3) 199/11 19/8 25/7 25/24 79/17Iwhat [233] 206/22 208/3 209/13 I 202/25
194/42 215/16 101/22 125/6 128/10 Iwhat's [13] 14/24 _Iwhich [155] 2/19 _ IWhitehaller [4]
way [49] 2/13 13/15 I 193/7 200/20 209/19 I 22/5 24/8 73/18 106/3) 2/21 2/22 7/13 9/12 I 118/16 118/23 118/25
O77 34/17 52/21, \Week’s [1] 207/2 I 107/17 108/18 127/9 I 11/17 12/8 17/6 17/10) 119/5
53/18 54/21 60/9 (Weekend [2] 93/20 I 128/23 145/23 163/15] 19/5 21/15 21/20 Iwho [74] 3/11 19/8
62/21 69/2 70/16 105/20 200/15 213/13 21/22 25/2 26/17 20/17 25/11 29/15
70/18 71/4 80/6 90/13Weeks [9] 27/20 Iwhatever [6] 5/3 I 26/25 32/4 32/21 29/16 35/22 36/17
93/6 105/2 1006/2 I 27/22 32/15 89/13 I 108/10 160/25 165/4 I 33/16 36/6 36/14 42/7) 48/18 53/6 53/7 55/24
16/3 110/21 113/24 I 115/1 124/25 134/20 I 166/25 183/13 42/20 42/23 49/22 I 76/18 79/2 79/5 79/18
114/16 124/19 12718 I 163/1 192/15 when [77] 4/10 4/13 I 51/23 55/19 56/18 I 80/1 86/3 92/11 93/12!
4131/3 136/24 137/24 IWeight [1] 66/13 I 6/5 10/14 10/25 11/2 I 59/16 61/4 62/14__I 93/17 93/20 94/19
4138/2 139/12 143/20 [Welcome [1] 11/18 I 22/4 23/2 24/5 24/11 I 62/19 68/9 68/11 69/3) 98/14 98/19 104/13
4147/6 147/21 148/16 IWelcomed [2] 18/4 I 26/2 26/4 31/16 33/5 I 70/2 74/12 74/23 105/7 106/6 106/24
4149/7 181/11 187/24 I 189/22 33/19 36/23 40/15 _I 75/10 76/3 79/9 80/14] 108/5 108/9 13/3
458/10 160/25 162/11IWelcomes [1] 97/5 I 47/24 52/9 53/16 59/5I 82/5 82/18 84/1 84/4 I 113/16 114/3 114/15
1647 184/4 185/4 (well [103] 2/17 3/5 I 59/11 63/1 64/8 66/4 I 84/5 87/14 87/16 122/12 123/4 124/5
196/2 196/12 202/2 I 4/5 5/3 5/8 6/6 15/9 I 72/23 73/4 73/7 74/2 I 89/22 90/8 93/10 97/8) 124/8 124/25 126/24
203/2 204/22 204/25 I 18/9 22/3 23/11 26/16I 75/12 77/12 78/5 78/7) 97/11 97/17 97/18 126/25 130/4 132/25
213/22 27/14 28/19 31/4 33/4) 79/8 85/16 87/24 98/12 99/7 101/2 136/8 141/19 145/18
ways [2] 9/12 45/24 34/21 42/18 47/24 88/16 89/12 90/10 101/4 101/18 103/11 I 146/3 151/15 151/19
we [559] 51/7 53/11 54/6 54/13) 92/24 96/6 96/18 104/20 105/5 109/20 I 155/22 157/8 157/20
we'd [7] 61/6 72/25 58/1 58/8 58/17 61/2 I 99/25 109/10 112/9 I 110/10 113/3 113/4 I 162/1 163/20 164/4
80/7 96/18 130/10 62/1 64/21 65/14 119/1 119/19 128/18 I 118/10 119/10 120/10I 164/23 168/5 174/19
143/19 144/5 67/17 67/19 69/25 135/24 138/18 143/25) 125/20 131/12 131/18] 188/8 191/3 192/9
we'll [17] 17/7 36/2 69/25 71/7 72/1 72/15) 144/1 145/11 153/7 I 132/5 133/5 133/17 I 192/11 194/25 198/12
51/7 55/7 57/9 61/9 I (3/2 74/11 77/12 153/15 154/8 157/25 I 137/1 138/22 140/2 I 199/16 200/5 206/17
61/20 102/13 135/5 I 80/14 81/1 81/5 82/11) 162/4 163/8 164/9 141/2 142/12 143/14 I 206/19 209/1 210/19
135/6 147/22 147/23 I 82/17 83/9 84/1 88/8 I 164/15 166/14 167/25] 146/16 149/3 151/5_ Iwhoever [1] 94/25
166/23 170/24 171/4 I 90/16 91/14 96/15 168/22 172/25 178/14) 151/6 151/10 151/18 Iwhole [11] 4/23 51/2
173/14 203/24 98/10 104/7 106/5 178/17 183/7 187/21 I 152/16 152/16 156/22I 52/20 64/13 69/6
we're [38] 1/5 5/17 110/24 112/1 112/15 I 191/18 195/4 198/1 I 156/23 157/17 160/16I 89/14 98/12 116/15
6/10 6/24 23/10 23/14) 1139/9 116/4 121/2 200/11 204/7 205/17 I 160/21 161/4 163/3 I 161/5 189/25 210/22
24/17 26/3 29/19 36/6I 121/19 122/17 123/9 I 206/6 208/22 163/5 165/13 165/18 Iwhom [2] 63/8
41/18 54/1 56/25 125/3 125/17 125/22 Iwhere [57] 3/1 5/6 166/5 166/12 167/8 I 145/18
56/25 61/23 63/12 127/11 127/12 128/10) 13/25 22/8 29/9 34/22I 167/9 167/9 167/14 Iwhose [1] 94/16
82/20 85/16 85/18 129/22 132/4 136/3 I 34/23 37/17 39/3 39/5I 167/16 167/20 168/11] WHSmith [6] 2/17
90/16 92/12 93/4 139/24 142/6 142/12 I 41/18 42/1 42/25 49/7I 168/19 168/20 170/13) 3/17 3/19 70/17 137/4I
100/23 101/5 102/7 144/24 149/18 149/19I 49/9 49/21 57/21 170/25 171/9 171/13 I 150/10
118/14 124/24 130/4 I 152/7 154/3 154/20 I 60/23 61/25 64/14 171/17 175/7 175/8 —Iwhy [64] 13/13 23/2
134/23 142/23 143/14I 156/1 156/5 159/19 I 69/12 70/11 74/9 176/7 176/12 177/23 I 25/25 29/23 33/3
159/15 169/2 177/13 I 160/15 162/2 162/19 I 101/3 101/22 106/14 I 178/21 181/4 182/7 I 42/16 47/5 47/24 51/9
180/4 199/4 203/5 164/7 166/9 169/4 107/10 120/3 125/7 I 182/17 184/3 184/8 I 52/15 53/8 54/2 54/24)
169/14 172/8 173/5 I 132/18 132/20 132/25I 184/18 187/10 189/11I 59/12 60/4 63/16
(92) wasn't... - why
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
Ww 123/17 working [18] 9/5 155/5 155/7 155/10 I 182/15 204/13 213/1
why... [48] 68/17 within [28] 5/8 8/17 I 21/20 30/3 30/22 156/17 159/9 159/19 I 213/4 213/7
TOG 7H120 77/21 18/23 28/19 32/12 32/17 45/24 46/5 159/19 161/8 163/9 Iyear [45] 1/12 7/13
79/12 79/13 79/14 61/13 72/16 73/21 59/17 116/25 153/7 I 163/11 164/22 168/9 I 8/3 11/25 12/9 13/2
82/13 88/3 88/17 98/9 73/25 75/22 76/16 159/6 159/9 176/10 168/14 168/15 172/8 I 18/7 26/1 40/1 45/13
98/22 100/8 100/10 I 81/9 85/1 91/16 93/12) 177/8 178/17 188/14 I 172/18 177/11 178/5 I 54/1 54/1 60/10 83/24
101/4 101/15 103/g I 99/1 104/16 122/18 I 188/20 203/23 178/13 179/10 179/18 84/25 86/23 87/25
103/21 109/9 113/7_ I 1596/5 161/7 162/14 Iworks [3] 25/7 28/13 I 179/19 180/20 180/22) 88/1 88/3 98/21
120/21 121/8 122/15 I 163/10 175/4 180/5 I I 35/21 183/9 186/12 186/15 I 100/23 112/23 116/5
1423/8 129/19 130/12 I 188/16 194/19 205/3 Iworld [4] 136/18 186/21 187/1 187/7 I 116/15 117/22 132/8
135/9 135/24 137/16 I 208/2 136/24 138/1 194/18 I 187/16 189/10 190/25I 135/20 136/5 145/7
143/24 144/6 145/17 IWithout [14] 12/12 [world's [1] 195/18 194/14 194/24 196/8 I 145/21 170/2 172/25
148/24 153/9 162/15 I 21/14 41/2 48/21 worried [1] 29/22 196/10 196/17 196/20] 177/12 189/14 191/18
163/17 186/10 186/14] 91/18 71/6 71/10 worry [2] 71/20 152/9I 199/2 201/7 201/8 191/18 191/19 195/25)
186/14 187/6 188/6 I 71/21 79/4 84/13 worsened [1] 45/19 I 201/12 201/13 204/25I 200/19 200/21 202/13)
489/11 195/11 205/21] 144/20 165/12 183/19] worst [1] 77/5 205/11 209/8 209/16 I 202/18 203/1 204/12
209/13 209/24 211/16] 200/18 worth [5] 47/9 47/13 I 211/12 211/12 211/22) 205/14
212/19 'WITN09840200 [1] 50/21 58/4 154/23 212/15 years [32] 2/4 2/10
wide [1] 84/3 170/13 worthwhile [1] wouldn't [13] 33/22 I 18/15 24/7 29/16
widely [3] 162/13 WITN11410100 [2] 103/15 39/21 113/10 121/8 I 35/10 35/20 40/6
162/14 164/18 1/24 36/10 would [191] 3/20 4/1 I 122/24 129/11 130/16I 43/19 63/9 86/22
witness [24] 1/11 4/6 5/18 6/25 7/17 132/16 132/22 133/10I 86/24 116/16 130/5
widened [1] 34/25 1/23 20/5 23/25 46/19] 10/12 11/21 12/21 144/5 153/23 155/2 I 155/10 163/5 163/13
wider [4] 19/3 49/6
75/17 104/4 54/7 54/8 55/17 74/5 I 13/11 13/17 13/21 wrapped [1] 115/1 175/11 178/11 179/15)
wielded [2] 108/2 75/2 91/10 123/14 14/15 15/10 15/20 Iwrite [9] 16/12 17/2 I 183/8 184/19 190/6
182/5 150/1 156/24 169/7 I 18/24 21/19 30/5 31/4I 45/1 90/14 90/18 196/25 197/7 202/24
wife [2] 192/16 169/20 170/1 174/6 I 31/6 31/7 31/19 33/22I 96/23 97/13 143/4 203/2 203/17 205/18
192/20 178/3 188/24 194/16 I 36/14 36/19 36/22 144/6 209/3 209/15 209/21
will [77] 1/24 5/14 198/21 201/3 201/14 I 36/25 39/4 40/2 40/5 Iwriter [1] 117/12 years’ [1] 194/22
11/14 14/18 13/8 witnessed [1] 78/6 I 40/7 41/2 41/13 41/15I writing [7] 11/6 11/10Iyes [96] 1/15 1/17 2/7I
16/12 28/12 28/14 Iwon [1] 32/2 41/16 41/16 42/22 72/11 92/21 198/18 I 4/14 6/11 6/13 16/18
28/15 30/11 30/21 won't [9] 48/18 55/17I 43/12 44/8 49/23 198/19 201/2 25/20 29/14 34/14
31/22 32/2 32/5 32/9 I (2/21 111/18 111/21 I 49/24 53/17 61/6 written [5] 44/2 45/8 I 36/5 36/5 38/6 38/25
32/11 35/15 36/3 44/8I 1239/2 149/4 154/8 61/13 61/16 62/21 76/19 130/3 183/18 I 55/23 56/12 59/3
45/18 47/8 47/21 214/13 63/2 64/7 64/24 65/9 Iwrong [28] 5/4 13/24 I 59/15 62/12 65/5 65/7,
48/15 48/17 50/14 IWondered [1] 113/16 I 65/14 65/24 70/11 14/11 46/25 54/12 65/8 66/24 68/12
55/11 56/13 58/10 IWondering [2] 51/3 I 70/17 70/18 71/24 54/13 54/18 74/7 72/25 75/23 78/14
51/5 73/12 74/8 74/16 76/12 85/5 88/23 78/14 78/15 78/16
bons Coe cals word [15] 31/10 74/20 78/20 80/8 80/9} 99/17 109/20 116/18 I 78/16 81/3 83/11
704 7028 7214 I 34/12 88/14 88/18 I 80/10 81/18 82/16 I 128/19 138/21 150/24] 83/18 83/23 84/1 85/3
Taig 81/5 85/13 Ba/sI 109/5.111/20 111/22 I 83/4 84/7 84/8 84/12 I 159/14 166/22 190/19] 85/25 89/9 89/21 91/4
89/19 89/25 91/18 I 129/23 138/18 138/19) 86/10 90/17 95/12 I 191/6 197/14 198/22 I 98/6 100/20 100/23
94/1 94/2 oa/s 95/23 I 140/16 144/25 145/6 I 95/1397/1197/20 I 200/3 201/1 201/10 I 101/9 112/5 113/24
99/3 102/17 103/20 I 145/18 14915 98/3 99/21 100/13 I 210/14 210/20 117/13 117/44 117/20
108/16 108/21 111/11 Words [18] 21/11 I 103/3 104/12 105/1_Iwronged [1] 105/18 I 118/9 119/15 119/17
111/47 111/00 112/25I 29/21 34/7 90/2 98/18] 105/10 105/11 105/13] wrongful [1] 94/15 I 121/16 122/23 124/4
118/15 119/24 121/10] 99/12 139/19 140/6 I 105/16 107/13 107/15I wrote [14] 16/9 53/7 I 129/1 1356/3 135/4
4134/9 134/11 14919. I 140/20 140/22 142/17I 107/21 109/15 109/19] 96/10 117/1 123/10 I 143/12 145/9 158/15
169/13 170/13 193/8 145/2 145/2 145/4 113/20 113/21 113/24] 129/1 131/8 146/5 158/23 159/11 159/12)
toa/3 194/9 194/10 I 145/24 145/25 146/2 I 113/24 120/2 120/3 I 191/15 197/13 197/14] 162/23 163/16 165/16
197/13 202/12 202/18I 211/24 120/4 120/4 120/7 197/16 198/10 213/13] 167/11 168/14 170/3
208/2 208/4 208/7. IWork [30] 8/11 8/14 I 120/8 122/22 25/5 IWyn [9] 72/14 87/24 I 170/6 170/8 170/11
209/22 213/24 9/12 14/20 16/10 125/7 130/11 130/21 I 100/20 142/5 164/19 I 170/17 170/23 171/1
Williams [6] 13/19 18/21 24/8 24/9 31/22) 132/1 132/16 133/7 I 165/11 210/4 215/10 I 176/17 182/11 188/21
72/14 165/11 210/4 I 48/20 50/15 75/15 136/15 136/23 137/1 I 215/22 195/7 196/5 197/8
215/10 215/22 80/21 103/1 114/19 I 139/18 140/20 140/25IWyn's [1] 122/17 199/6 199/10 199/11
ing [1] 183/1 119/13 128/8 141/19 I 141/3 141/3 141/18 IZ I 202/8 202/10 202/20
155/5 178/16 179/24 I 142/13 142/17 142/18 205/24 206/16 209/8
wish [2] 133/3
142/11
wished [1] 18/17
withdrawal [1]
180/3 181/23 189/21 I 143/14 145/8 145/19 Iyeah [23] 18/3 19/21 I 210/6 210/7 210/10
195/4 203/7 204/7 146/4 146/17 146/20 I 36/8 51/8 69/25 79/15} 210/11
205/21 209/22 210/24I 147/14 151/4 151/5 I 84/23 85/24 86/6 yesterday [2] 44/23
114/13 worked [6] 2/4 2/9 I 151/18 151/18 12/7 I 114/1 122/14 140/1_ I'115/8
withdrawn [4] 52/21 153/20 181/16 I 152/15 154/14 154/16I 161/17 172/22 173/2 Iyet [13] 33/14 67/24
209/18 4155/1 155/3 15/3 I 173/22 177/4 17817 I 94/19 105/7 112/18
(93) why... - yet
INQ00001189
INQ00001189
Y
yet... [8] 114/12
123/17 128/8 131/4
178/1 179/20 184/21
201/20
you [766]
you'd [3] 122/5
139/24 203/4
you'll [7] 14/16 75/2
96/10 114/10 120/10
165/15 167/24
you're [33] 17/11
22/4 24/7 24/7 24/11
25/24 51/16 53/6
58/15 68/24 69/1 69/4,
69/15 71/7 87/1 99/14
99/14 101/17 102/12
104/20 117/5 131/14
137/9 137/12 141/16
141/24 141/25 149/10)
165/5 165/6 176/15
198/9 210/1
you've [45] 3/14 5/19
11/7 29/5 34/11 34/15)
57/2 60/19 71/3 72/7
80/21 87/13 91/10
92/15 99/25 106/16
110/9 123/6 125/17
130/24 131/13 136/3
137/18 142/9 144/13
144/24 144/25 151/14)
155/16 155/24 158/4
169/8 170/18 174/5
176/17 181/12 181/19}
182/12 183/21 186/17)
186/18 188/4 188/23
192/24 196/7
Young [6] 63/11
63/14 206/14 206/17
207/22 209/1
your [179] 1/9 1/13
1/18 1/21 1/22 3/14
4/15 4/24 5/7 5/11
5/12 5/20 6/10 6/20
7/2 7/4 7/8 9/23 9/25
10/24 11/10 11/18
13/9 14/24 15/13
15/17 15/21 17/7
17/23 20/4 22/5 22/12)
22/14 23/2 23/24 24/5
25/9 28/8 30/7 30/10
34/6 34/7 34/19 36/9
37/9 37/13 39/15 42/1
45/9 45/20 46/1 46/9
47/2 51/16 53/8 53/9
54/1 59/19 60/22 61/9
61/10 69/13 71/4 72/8
79/6 79/25 82/21 85/1
86/13 87/2 90/4 91/7
91/10 92/3 97/1 98/4
99/25 100/10 102/11
104/3 104/24 106/4
106/11 106/18 107/4
107/17 108/7 110/7
110/19 111/13 111/18)
114/21 119/20 120/25)
122/15 123/7 124/2
127/9 128/23 129/21
132/2 132/8 133/11
133/20 134/17 137/16)
138/6 138/22 141/5
142/10 143/8 144/22
145/2 145/2 146/21
148/21 149/9 150/1
150/1 150/5 153/18
155/16 156/16 156/24
158/13 158/17 159/17)
159/17 160/3 162/8
162/11 162/11 163/23)
163/24 165/14 165/15)
166/4 166/24 168/4
168/12 169/6 169/24
170/7 170/10 172/1
172/11 173/19 173/25)
174/15 174/10 174/11
177/6 178/3 180/2
181/13 182/10 182/12)
185/9 188/19 188/19
188/22 188/24 190/18)
192/10 194/16 194/21
195/17 196/7 197/3
202/5 204/21 205/12
206/5 206/23 208/22
209/7 211/10 212/1
213/13
yourself [14] 13/4
24/8 24/19 24/23 34/2
86/3 110/22 126/14
127/19 133/13 134/25
(94) yet... - yourself