The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Wednesday, 13 November 2024
(9.35 am)
DAME SANDRA JUNE NOBLE DAWSON (continued)
DR KATY MARY STEWARD (continued)
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Mr Beer, I'm sorry about the delay this
morning. I understand there are problems with the
Internet. I won't try and explain what they are.
The effect, I think, is this: that we can all
continue as normal here, but those who watch on live
feed will not be able to do so at the moment. However,
what is occurring now and henceforth will be recorded so
they won't actually miss anything, and we're hoping that
the Internet problem will be solved during the course of
this morning, and then they can rejoin as normal.
MR BEER: Thank you, sir. I think that has been announced
to the public by Tweets and other messages so those
outside the room can understand what's happening.
I think it also afflicts the transcript, but the
transcript is being made, and will be available when the
IT problem has been sorted out.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes. I think we can all do without the
instantaneous facility that we've been enjoying and
I think we're also okay with documents, which would be
a problem, if it was a problem, but I understand it not
to be a problem.
DAME SANDRA: That is correct.
MR HENRY: But interestingly, at the close of your evidence
yesterday, you were dealing with the fact that
motivations, of course, can be either driven by, let's
say, altruism or ethics, or self-interest, and it's
perfectly acceptable if the selfish reason leads to the
right result. For example, from a risk management
perspective, best practice would dictate that threats,
particularly existential, or potentially existential
threats, are clearly identified and resolved. You'd
agree, obviously, with that?
DAME SANDRA: We agree that it is vitally important that
organisations identify the key risks to their business.
MR HENRY: Exactly. So it would be entirely understandable
for a board, motivated by an ethical sense, to deal with
the core problem, in this case the failings of Horizon
and its impact on the risk of wrongful prosecutions,
because they were driven by a moral imperative that the
very idea that somebody had been wrongly imprisoned was
intolerable and so, therefore, they had to get a grip on
the issue, and perform a searching and fearless moral
inventory, as it were, of the risk.
So that would be one motivation but, aside from that
motivation, wherever the consequences lay for the
organisation, a board doesn't need to have such Olympian.
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13 November 2024
MR BEER: Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So we'll see how we get along. Thank
you.
MR BEER: It's a fire alarm day today as well.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: It's a fire alarm day. Everything is
happening today.
MR BEER: The order of events, sir, just so that you know,
firstly Mr Henry, on behalf of the HJA Core Participants
for up to 45 minutes, then Mr Stein on behalf of the
Howe+Co Core Participants for up to 45 minutes, an hour
and a half, therefore, then the morning break. Then the
Hudgell Core Participants represented by Mr Moloney for
up to 30 minutes, the NFSP for up to 15 minutes, and
then Ms Vennells' representatives for up to 30 minutes
which should take us to 12.30.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I'm sorry that a longstanding engagement
of mine means that we are having a half day but I don't
suppose any of you will mind, really.
Right.
MRBEER: Thank you, sir. Mr Henry.
Questioned by MR HENRY
MR HENRY: Thank you, sir.
Dame Sandra and Dr Steward, you make it very clear
that you are not arrogating the role of the Chair in
reaching any verdict on people's motivations.
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standards, does it, because a board might act selfishly
by thinking, "Oh, my God, what does that mean for our
organisation's reputation? We'd better get to the
bottom of this and sort it out". So that would be
another perfectly acceptable motivation but it's not
driven by the moral imperative: it's driven more by the
self-interest, "How are we going to, as it were, look";
do you agree with that?
DAME SANDRA: I would agree that there is a duty under the
Code for boards to look at the risk of their
organisation.
MR HENRY: Yes, but what a board and an executive, a senior
executive group, cannot do is cover things up or
wilfully ignore them to protect the reputation of the
organisation. I mean, that would be an infamous course
of action.
DAME SANDRA: We're dealing in hypotheses, as far as we're
concerned, because, as I say, we're not adducing motive.
MRHENRY: But dealing with that hypothesis, I suppose the
answer is obvious.
DAME SANDRA: The hypothesis that, if people were to cover
things up seriously, if they were, then that would be
against the Governance Code.
MR HENRY: Absolutely, I know we are continuing on this
hypothesis, but to take that high risk strategy, it
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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
would be extremely unlikely that a senior executive
group would do that off their own bat. Dealing with the
hypothesis, it is more likely, is it not, that they
would have positioned or obtained the acquiescence of
the board or the chair?
DAME SANDRA: I don't have experience of that and
therefore -- well, we can hypothesise -- indeed we can
hypothesise -- and the hypothesis may be correct.
MRHENRY: Can I just deal, please, with one paragraph in
your second report, your paragraph 106, and I'm afraid
I don't have the page reference, but I'm going to read
out the part that I wish verbatim, but it's
paragraph 106, I'll wait until it gets up on the screen.
DAME SANDRA: Thank you.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: _ If anybody is following the hard copy,
it's page 31.
MR HENRY: Thank you very much, sir.
"In the event, notwithstanding Brian Altman King's
Counsel's knowledge and agreement that Gareth Jenkins
was a tainted witness, and his knowledge therefore that
prosecutions had in the past been unsafe, it seems
neither he nor the [General Counsel] brought this matter
of the tainted witness to the attention of the Board in
a way which they fully understood its importance."
What I want to explore with you is whether that is
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MR HENRY: Now, you wouldn't have seen this document and we
will provide a reference to the purposes of argument in
due course, but on 12 December 2020, there is a record
of a conversation between a Mr Rodric Williams and
Mr Altman where Mr Rodric Williams was saying to
Mr Altman, apparently without demur from Mr Altman, that
Mr Altman's 2013 report was "an optic piece” for the
Board. Would your evidence be that the Altman Review
was a major piece of work that the Board ought to have
been made explicitly aware of?
DAME SANDRA: I will ask Dr Steward in a minute about that.
As I recall -- and of course it's quite difficult not
having documents in front of one to be able to comment.
As I recall, there is reference to it at the ARC
meeting, in which that -- one of those reports is
referenced.
Do you have anything to add?
DR STEWARD: I think you're correct in saying that the
15 October Brian Altman general advice is referenced in
the paper by Chris Aujard to the ARC in November 2013.
So to that extent, there was references to the Board,
there was the -- there were some of the references from
the paper to the Board.
MR HENRY: But nothing about the Gareth Jenkins issue
appears to have been pursued?
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right because, of course, you are familiar with the
unsafe witness email that Paula Vennells sent to Alice
Perkins --
DAME SANDRA: Indeed.
MR HENRY: -- and who is to say whether their accepted
beliefs or bias meant that the issue was not pursued?
DAME SANDRA: I'm sorry, can you just repeat the question?
MR HENRY: Yes, who is to say that, rather than Mr Altman
and General Counsel being at fault for not drawing the
full ramifications of this to the Board in a way in
which they fully understood its importance, what I'm
trying to suggest is that the fault lies with Paula
Vennells and Alice Perkins.
DAME SANDRA: I mean, I think this is correct. It seems
neither he nor the General Counsel brought this matter
to the attention of the Board. That is correct. But
your question is then: but did other people know and
should they have brought that to the attention?
MR HENRY: Absolutely, well, to some extent of course,
General Counsel would appear to have wanted to draw it
to the attention of the Board but was physically siloed
and not allowed to present to the Board at the July
meeting, 16 July.
DAME SANDRA: Indeed. That was the case: she wasn't there,
yes.
DR STEWARD: In that incidence, yes. I mean, as far as our
frame of reference in looking at the general advice in
the ARC, that's what we observed. We, of course, don't
know what happened, the entirety of what else the Board
was told.
MR HENRY: Well, I want to now try to work out why the Board
was not properly seized of the unsafe witness issue and
to test the assumption that that was because neither
Alice Perkins or Paula Vennells were inclined to develop
it or share it with the Board or apprise the Board of
the serious and obvious risk it presented. So could
I ask you to reflect on this document, which I think you
have seen overnight. It is POLO0108065, and it's dated
27 August 2013. Could we scroll down, and you see:
"Paula your queries answered in red.
"Susan, Thanks a really clear note. Noted below
some queries (IN CAPS)."
Then if we could scroll, please, "Legal and
adjudication of future case". These words:
"lam waiting for a meeting (either last week of
‘August or first week of September) with Brian Altman QC.
The QC will provide an initial steer on the process for
existing cases. This session will be the first step in
helping us define a process for future cases. We will
need to review the current plan once we have this steer.
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IS THIS REF PROSECUTING AUTHORITY? Yes,
a recommendation on that will be one of the outputs from
this work, also important to have oversight over the
process with regard to the review of our criminal
prosecutions."
Then this:
"We are urgently working with our external firms to
identify an independent expert to provide evidence on
the Horizon system. PREVIOUSLY THIS WAS PROVIDED BY
FUJITSU? [THESE ARE IN CAPS, MS VENNELLS] WHY MOVE FROM
THIS? DO WE HAVE TO VALIDATE FUJITSU?"
Then in red, although it doesn't appear so:
"We are concerned that this needs to be independent
rather than [Fujitsu] verifying its own system. Happy
to explain rationale further at our steering board
meeting this week."
That steering board meeting we know took place on
29 August 2013. So there's clear discussion here
between General Counsel and the CEO about the issue,
particularly the need now to find an independent expert
witness.
Could I now ask you to go, please, to POL00108087.
We can see it was sent on 20 August 2013 and then resent
on 3 September 2013 at 21.25. Could I ask, please, to
scroll down to the issues concerning Mr Altman so it
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MR HENRY: That would appear to be a note arising from the
steering group meeting, which took place on 29 August
2013, so I'm afraid I can't answer definitively but it
may be that that was drafted by General Counsel.
DAME SANDRA: Okay. But we don't know. It's quite
difficult because, obviously, this is a -- you might
call it, a multi-layered communication where it starts
and then other people comment. But as far as you can
imagine, that might be from the General Counsel.
With regard to the Seema Misra case, we have not
looked at that in any detail, we --
MR HENRY: Well, then I will move on to the next document,
then.
Could I now ask you, please, to go to POL00381633.
I'm going to start at the top but we have an email from
Paula Vennells to Ms Crichton dated Tuesday, 3 September
at 7.51 in the evening, so it's about an hour before the
last email that we have considered, which of course was
re-sent 3 September at around 9.00 in the evening.
Just dealing then with the discussions we know that
there has been an email on 27 August, which I've taken
you to, setting things up for the 29 August steering
group meeting. Then the 30 August email, which was
re-sent on 3 September and, about an hour before it was
resent, we have this:
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will be towards the end of the document. Yes, thank you
very much. "Legal and adjudication of future case”,
first bullet point:
"Meeting was held with our external law firm who.
have been completing the criminal case review on
Friday."
Then this:
"The issues that we want Brian Altman QC to advice
on were agreed, final sign off of review process; and
advice on prosecutions going forward.
"Conference agreed for 9 September where the focus
will be on our prosecutorial obligations of disclosure
of any information which may be of assistance to the
defence. After this conference we will finalise the
terms of reference for Brian Altman's review; this will
include, amongst other things, a consideration of POL's
position re criminal prosecutions.”
Dame Sandra and Dr Steward, I don't know how
familiar you are with the Seema Misra case, so depending
‘on your answer to that, will dictate whether I ask you
further questions arising from this.
DAME SANDRA: Before I answer that question, which I'm very
happy to do, can you tell me the bold which begins
"Conference agreed for 9 September", who is speaking
there?
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"Thanks Susan."
Then I omit words:
"Re the update -- could you add a para regarding
costs and timing on [Second Sight]?"
Then I omit words:
"My ambition is to reassure Alice that we are on the
detail."
But if we could scroll down, please, and it's the
second page of the document, "Legal and adjudication of
future case":
"Meeting was held with our external law firm. The
issues that we want Brian Altman QC to advise on were
agreed, final sign off of review process; options
regarding the appointment of independent expert witness
(paper to follow); advice on prosecutions going forward.
"Following this discussion, terms of reference for
his review to be finalised.”
Can I ask you, please, Dame Sandra and Dr Steward,
did you actually see any paper regarding the appointment
of an independent expert witness?
DAME SANDRA: I don't believe we did. We did see a paper in
January --
Was it January?
DR STEWARD: January 2014.
DAME SANDRA: Yes, January 2014, which suggested that there
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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
were two independent witnesses from Imperial College
that had been identified. That is, I believe, the only
subsequent things that we have seen.
DR STEWARD: Yes.
DAME SANDRA: Of course, there may be other evidence but we
have not seen them.
MR HENRY: But here we can see that the CEO is clearly
sighted on the issues that they want Brian Altman to
advise upon, a final sign-off of the review process, and
terms of reference for his review to be finalised.
DAME SANDRA: Indeed.
MR HENRY: Right. Could I now ask you to go, please, to
POL00368926. This is 11 September. Susan Crichton to
Rodric Williams and Hugh Flemington but, if we could
scroll up, because this is dealing with who Brian Altman.
should report to. We can see Susan Crichton,
10 September 2013, in response to Gavin Matthews.
"Gavin -- could you sent me the terms of reference
so I can take a look at it.
"Re reporting to POL I will check with Paula --
maybe Chair of Audit Committee but I will confirm
[I think it is 'now] he is not needed for Thurs."
That was an Audit and Risk Committee meeting, as far
as I'm aware:
I have copied Andy Holt our project manager ...”
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knowledge and accountability of the issues raised by
Mr Altman?
DAME SANDRA: I don't believe that we can comment on that.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I don't think you can but perhaps you can
help me with this: clearly, a great deal of —- let's
take out the "great deal" -- clearly, there was some
work done to formulate and finalise Mr Altman's terms of
reference.
DAME SANDRA: Evidently.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Should his terms of reference -- should
it have gone for information and/or approval either to
the Audit and Risk Committee or the Board before it was
concluded, in your opinion?
DAME SANDRA: My opinion is that it would have been good
practice, had it gone to the Audit and Risk Committee,
had there been an appropriate meeting quickly. One
wouldn't wish to delay doing it. And that it would be,
again, good practice for the Chair of that committee, if
it couldn't come before the committee meeting, to be
aware of what those were and then he could report at the
next committee that he had seen the terms of reference
and that he approved them.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes. Subject to your point about
independent Executive Directors being there to
challenge, if a report is prepared for such a committee,
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So here we are. Who should Brian Altman report to?
Susan Crichton was going to check with Paula Vennells
and, as far as one knows, who did Brian Altman report to
in the end? There's a gap, isn't there?
(Pause for fire alarm test)
MR HENRY: I think I'm safe to speak now. I mean, he did
not report in person to the ARC or the Board?
DAME SANDRA: We would need to look at the relevant
documents in order for us to give you an opinion on
that.
MR HENRY: I think I'm safe on that basis. Assuming I'm
right that he did not report in person to the Audit and
Risk Committee or the Board, whose decision would that
have been?
DAME SANDRA: By in person, may I -- he didn't appear
before --
MR HENRY: Yes.
DAME SANDRA: -- or are you saying his report didn't go to?
MRHENRY: We know for a fact for the former that he did not
appear in person.
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
MR HENRY: But there is also -- can you help us, how clear
is it about the process of conveying what was obviously
a very important piece of work, how clear is the audit
trail, the paper trail, to establish the Board's
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coming from very senior lawyers who have agreed the
terms of reference, to what extent, in practice, is it
expected that that would be challenged?
DAME SANDRA: Oh, the terms of reference, Sir Wyn?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes.
DAME SANDRA: It might be -- in fact, I can think of
instances where I would look at terms of reference, and
they'd been agreed and I might say “Are we sure that
we're doing enough on that?", which would then inform
the nature of the work.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So, in other words, there's a practical,
useful purpose in it happening?
DAME SANDRA: Indeed.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right, fine.
Sorry Mr Henry, then I'll stop.
Can I ask you the same question about the actual
written advice, if that's what we'll call it, of
Mr Altman, over the next time period. What is your
opinion about whether the actual piece of writing or the
substance of it, should that have been transmitted
either to the Risk Committee or the Board?
DAME SANDRA: With regard to the substance, then I'm sure
that it should have been understood and -- to the
Committee and, in the report from the committee to the
Board, which should happen each time, the Committee, the
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Chair, who would give that report, should summarise what
the Committee looked at and give it to the Board.
I wouldn't necessarily expect, either at the Committee
or at the Board, the actual piece of paper to come
forward, but I would expect the process that I've
described to happen.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Then, without wishing to steal Mr Henry's
thunder, but I will, should a reasonable chief executive
and/or should a reasonable general counsel ensure that
those things happened?
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right.
MR HENRY: Steal right away, sir!
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: No, no, back to you, now, Mr Henry.
MR HENRY: No, no, thank you.
I'm now going to deal with the concept of critical
friends, and the role of non-executives on boards. Now,
you have actually cited a work of scholarship by Robert
Hazel, Alan Cogbill, David Owen, Howard Webber and Lucas
Chebib, Critical Friends? The Role of Non-Executives on
Whitehall Boards.
DAME SANDRA: Mm.
MR HENRY: You reference it at page 129 of 133 of your first
report. Can you expand upon the term "critical friend",
please?
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role is to support the executive, but it is also to be
critical, to challenge what is going on, if it's seen
not to be in the best interests of the company, which is
what, as it were, motivates their appointment. So it's
that balance which I think we talk a lot about between
support and challenge. And, as an independent
non-executive, your responsibility is to do both.
MR HENRY: Now, would you agree that, throughout this entire
saga, there has been a pitiful evidence base, so far as
the NEDs acting decisively to reframe the way in which
the executive group was dealing with this matter, and to
ensure the swift and decisive resolution of the matter,
namely Horizon failings and its impact on prosecutorial
risk?
DAME SANDRA: I think yesterday we dealt in some detail
about the fact that, in our view, the Second Sight
Report contained enough information, although not
necessarily coherently brought together, to show that
there should be challenge on those points.
MR HENRY: In fact, what you had instead was, rather than
selflessness, integrity, objectivity and, you know,
a determination for proper accountability you had, did
you not, the spectacle of the NEDs being outraged about
the way it had been handled by Susan Crichton, and we
have seen and heard evidence that they were concerned
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DAME SANDRA: I mean this, as you say, is in the context of
Whitehall departments and Whitehall departments are, to
an extent, different to that of --
MR HENRY: Absolutely --
DAME SANDRA: -- other matters.
MR HENRY: -- and I was going to come to that because
I wanted to know what would be the most useful track, to
part from your expert report, to enable the Chair,
should he wish to go further into this subject, to
understand how the NED model of corporate governance
could be strengthened and improved, given what we've
seen in this saga?
DAME SANDRA: I mean, that's a huge question for me to take
from you from the Chair, and I would be happy to give it
considerable reflection. The role of the Non-Executive
Director is described in -- both in governance terms,
but also in terms of nearly every board review that one
looks at, and the essence is: independent, absolutely
not part of the executive in any way, not responsible
for running the company, responsible for bringing their
specialist advice, responsible for being questioning,
challenging, curious, and giving that independent pair
of eyes to the -- to what the board is attending to.
The idea of critical friend, I think, goes to the
balance between support, which is the friend, that their
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about their own personal position and the notification
to the Post Office's insurers.
DAME SANDRA: Mm.
MR HENRY: I mean, that does not strike one, does it, as
a sort of courageous and independent voice saying, "We
must deal with this; though the heavens fall, we must
ensure that justice is done"? That indicates a somewhat
craven approach by the NEDs.
DAME SANDRA: As we discussed yesterday, we do think this
was a missed opportunity, and the other piece in our
evidence does draw a distinction: this word "challenge"
which is both critical challenge and constructive
challenge. And I think we did see evidence of what one
might call critical challenge on the way in which, in
their view, the report had been produced, and the
process by which it had been produced, but we did not
see the challenge into the basic assumptions, as you
indicate.
MR HENRY: The challenges, really, were more to do with the
amour propre of the NEDs being exposed and the fact that
this looked messy optically, that the Post Office had
lost control of the narrative, as it were?
DAME SANDRA: I think there is that theme. There is also,
as I understand it, their annoyance at them being
surprised by, for example, bugs, and they were -- as
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I understand it, they were annoyed by that. They also,
as you indicate, asked questions about liability.
MR HENRY: Did you, in all of your researches, did you ever
get the impression that Paula Vennells, in particular,
did not want an optimal NED culture? Do you remember
the document where she said that she did not want the
NEDs to, as it were, have a bonding exercise?
DAME SANDRA: I do recall, I recall that phase -- that
phrase.
MR HENRY: I may have misquoted it, but let's have a look at
POL00411940.
DAME SANDRA: This is 2018?
MRHENRY: Yes, 2018. Do you see the paragraph beginning:
"I would remove entirely the NEDs as they will meet
them at dinner, and at the Board, and will arrange 121s
if they want to. We're not trying to create a team of
NEDs, the opposite in fact."
What's your view on that approach?
DAME SANDRA: I cannot say what was in the mind of
Ms Vennells when she wrote that. One construction would
be: we don't want a team of NEDs because we want their
independent challenge. We want really good independent
people who will speak their mind and their
responsibility isn't to form a team; their
responsibility is to be part of the unitary board, as
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MR HENRY: Actually, sir, I think, in deference to you, and
particularly since we're under pressure of time, I shall
stop there.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Thank you.
Mr Stein?
Questioned by MR STEIN
MR STEIN: Thank you, Sir Wyn, for the introduction.
My name is Sam Stein and I represent a large number
of subpostmasters and also currently serving
subpostmasters.
Dame Sandra and Dr Steward, thank you for your work
on this matter, producing two reports, going through
a considerable body of material, we're grateful.
Governance and regulatory oversight. Now, what
regulations and governance can do is it can provide
a framework, is that correct, that --
DAME SANDRA: That's true.
MR STEIN: -- supports hopefully good behaviour, moral
behaviour; do you agree with that?
DAME SANDRA: It provides a framework certainly, yes.
MR STEIN: The reason I think you may be hesitating, Dame
Sandra, is a framework doesn't necessarily dictate
an outcome, so if someone wants to be immoral, someone
wants to be dishonest, someone wants to work against the
interests of subpostmasters they can do, no matter what
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I explained, with the best interests of the company, and
to bring their independent expertise to bear. So that
would be one construction, which would be in a way
a completely legitimate and positive construction.
Another construction would be -- is we don't want
a close amalgam of NEDs as in this situation.
MR HENRY: Divide and rule?
DAME SANDRA: It could be that but I can't say. As I say,
there are two constructions.
Have you got any view on that?
DR STEWARD: I mean, I wouldn't call it "divide and rule",
I think there is quite often the case -- it can be very
problematic for executives if you have a team of NEDs
who refer to each other without referring to the
collective, and that the ambition of every board should
be for it to be as collective as possible. So I -- in
a sense, "We're not trying to create a team of NEDs" can
be interpreted as "We're not trying to create a two-tier
board".
MR HENRY: Could I now in conclusion, because I know quite
a lot of my time was eaten up but I want to stick to
10.15 as close as possible, but --
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I can't help it, I love it when Mr Henry
and Mr Stein edge themselves over the limit, with
ever-increasing ingenuity.
22
the framework is: it's a choice?
DAME SANDRA: Again, human behaviour can be guided by
a whole range of different things, as well as the
framework in which they sit.
MR STEIN: So if individuals within what's happened in the
scandal, Ms Vennells, Ms van den Bogerd, the
Investigators, Mr Bradshaw and others, Jarnail Singh, if
they want to make choices that are either, I suppose,
immoral or dishonest or downright criminal, then it's up
to them, when it comes down to it.
DAME SANDRA: Yes, a framework cannot control behaviour. It
sets the boundaries and sets the expectations.
MR STEIN: You may be aware that, in the same amount of
time, the same period of time that we're talking about
for Second Sight, around 2013, where they're conducting
their investigations and making their report and they're
dealing and setting out the bugs, errors, defects that
they're finding, around that same time, the Post Office
was also seeking to try and achieve further financial
support from Government in -- to the tune of, I think --
I think the figures are 1.34 billion. It's almost worth
repeating: 1.34 billion.
So you have these pressures upon the Post Office,
which are, you know, will it survive? Will it get the
money, into the future? Also, at the same time you've
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got this bugs, errors and defects in its course systems
that are coming along. Those drivers, those attacks
upon the survival of the Post Office, it's not going to
necessarily going to be helpful to ensure good
behaviour; do you agree?
DAME SANDRA: You mean the -- if I just play back, you're
asking the question of does the pressure from getting
approval for Government of a large amount of money
impact people's behaviour in the organisation?
MR STEIN: Yes.
DAME SANDRA: It may do. It may not.
MR STEIN: It goes back to the question of choice, doesn't
it?
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
MR STEIN: Okay, so let's have a quick look, if we can,
please, at perhaps some of the governance principles and
what exists. We've not heard much about the Nolan
Principles as yet, so can I take you, please, to the
updated report, which is EXPG0000006_R. I'll be going
to page 95 of that report and, if we can go to 95 on our
screens, I'd be very grateful. What I'm going to be
asking you questions about Dame Sandra, Dr Steward, is
Nolan Principles and who they applied to within this
complex situation.
DAME SANDRA: Yes, yes.
25
when one is appointed to public office, I believe from
1995 onwards you're quite clearly given these
principles, and -- but with regard to people employing
in the Post Office, without looking at their contracts
of employment, I'm afraid I cannot say whether they were
specifically required to note and to be told that they
should adopt them. I can't tell you that.
MR STEIN: So even pre-split, it's pretty complex because,
despite the fact it's a Government organisation, you've
got layers of different employees, Executive Directors,
and the question of whether this would apply might
depend on what's in their contract?
DAME SANDRA: Exactly. That's what I'm saying. That where
it's very clear that they apply, it's usually appended
to the contract. I can't say -—-
MR STEIN: Okay.
Let's move onto the split so the Post Office becomes
a private company —-
DAME SANDRA: Mm-hm.
MR STEIN: = -- owned by a single shareholder, as Ms Badenoch
said the other day, herself as Secretary of State, and
other Secretaries of State in their time.
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
MR STEIN: Now, this is where I almost have to crack my
knuckles with trying to work out the complexity. We've
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MR STEIN: Is that page 95?
DAME SANDRA: It's the bottom of 95, yes.
MR STEIN: Bottom of 95, thank you.
So there we've got -- and we've got the two sides.
Now, the left-hand side, I'll put it crudely is
corporate commercial.
DAME SANDRA: That's right, yes.
MR STEIN: Right-hand side, if you like, more government.
Those are the two sides, so that's what we've got by way
of this schedule. We see there the Nolan Principles and
they're familiar to I think, us all, 1 to 7, they set
out basic standards of selflessness, integrity,
openness, accountability, honesty, leadership. These
are basic important principles.
DAME SANDRA: They are.
MR STEIN: Now, these Nolan Principles would apply, looking
at the sort of dates we're considering here, they were
in place from that period of time, 1995, and they apply,
therefore, when we think about the structure applicable
to the Post Office. At that time would they have
applied throughout the organisation -- this is
pre-split -- do you think?
DAME SANDRA: Yeah, I think -- I mean, it's a very technical
response I'm going to give. They would have applied to
those people who were told they applied to them. So
26
got a very odd situation. We've got obviously
Government officials, to whom the Nolan Principles
apply.
DAME SANDRA: Indeed.
MR STEIN: Let's work our way down from top level
Government. We then have ShEx, that became UKGI. Now,
they are essentially the controlling body or arm of
state that is involved in the oversight of the Post
Office. Now, it applied to them as well. So those ShEx
and UKGI members on the Board, Nolan Principles should
apply; do we agree?
DAME SANDRA: Certainly ShEx. I would have to look and see
exactly what UKGI, again, contracts would have said. So
I could only speculate whether or not they would.
I perhaps should say that I'm very pleased you've
brought these Nolan Principles up because, reflecting
our side, I thought, "Oh, we hadn't discussed them".
And I think that, in terms of public life, in my
personal experience, they are very well known.
MR STEIN: It is, one would have thought and one would hope
frankly likely that the Nolan Principles would be
applied through UKGI, it being the body carrying on, if
you like, from ShEx?
DAME SANDRA: As I say, the specifics. I can't give you
an answer on the fact because I don't know the fact.
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MR STEIN: Fingers crossed. Now, then if we move on
through, if you like, the structure that exists at that
time, the complexity then is that, at that stage when
the Post Office is split into its private role, it is
still, though, a body with a clear governmental social
purpose. We know the requirements and directives to the
Post Office is that they should provide a public
service, that they've got to keep open post offices up
and down the land, and they provide particular services,
even though that might be for that particular branch not
sustainable as a small business. Okay?
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
MR STEIN: So we've got this complex picture. It's
a private company that is carrying out a social purpose
on behalf of the State. But it doesn't seem to have,
buried within its ethos, the Nolan principles as
a private body. Is that a fair or a bad description?
DAME SANDRA: In the documents that I have seen of the Post
Office of 2013, in those that I have seen, I haven't
seen reference to the Nolan Principles. However, as the
appointments, particularly at the Board, had to be
approved by the Secretary of State, it's possible that
in those appointments there was direction to the Nolan
Principles because the appointments were made by the
Secretary of State. They weren't -- well, they were
29
frameworks of governance and expected standards, we
identified a number of questions. When we came to write
report number 2, we simply -- we could have spent five
years seeking through your evidence to answer these
questions. We didn't have five years -- five years full
time. So we didn't take these as questions for us, when
we sought to answer them.
With regard to the specific question about written
statements of values, codes of conducts and behaviours,
certainly in the -- I think it's the 2015 job
description of the General Counsel, which happened --
which was one of pieces we looked at, there is
a statement of behaviours and there are -- there is
a statement of values. It's an empirical question.
Do you want to add?
MR STEIN: You've turned neatly --
I'm sorry, Dr Steward.
DAME SANDRA: I just wanted to check.
DR STEWARD: I was just going to say that the process is
exactly as Sandra described it, these questions for the
Inquiry.
MR STEIN: Dame Sandra, you helpfully mentioned general
counsel, which is my next topic.
From your evidence there is no actual requirement
within the Post Office for general counsel to attend
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approved by the Secretary of State on the recommendation
of the -- on the recommendation of the Board.
MR STEIN: Dame Sandra, I agree and I'm not convinced, and
no doubt I'll be corrected by voices around me, but I'm
not convinced we actually know the answer to: do the
Directors, Chair, and so on, at particular times have
these Nolan Principles drawn to their attention on their
appointment. So we may learn that at a later stage.
DAME SANDRA: Mm, mm.
MR STEIN: Can I take you to page 88 of the same document,
please. It's a reference to the culture of
organisations within, and your questions.
DAME SANDRA: Yeah.
MR STEIN: So what we've been discussing is on the culture
of their organisations, when, if at all, did the
executives or boards have written statements on values,
codes of conducts and behaviour, which are available to
all employees. Our discussion has been about this,
hasn't it? It's been about whether you've been able to
find, whether it is available, the types of guides and
protocols or codes of conduct that may have provided
some support for a positive culture. Have you found
documents that answered these questions?
DAME SANDRA: We didn't -- when we wrote report number 1 and
we were trying to assist the Inquiry by showing the
30
board meetings. They don't have to and they're not
required to.
DAME SANDRA: As I tried to explain, it is really a matter
for the board to decide how they want to relate to their
general counsel. Sometimes, occasionally, I think it's
about 20 per cent now, might be actually members of the
board. A larger proportion would have the general
counsel in attendance, and some of them would have the
general counsel coming in just for specific matters.
MR STEIN: Focusing on POL as an arm's-length body to start
with, and then I'll move on to then the general question
about arm's-length bodies, so POL to start off with,
should general counsel, within the Post Office, be
a Board appointment?
DAME SANDRA: There is no "should" about that. It's
a matter for choice.
MR STEIN: Would you recommend?
DAME SANDRA: I would recommend that the General Counsel was
present. I would not recommend or not recommend --
I would neither recommend nor not recommendation that
they stood be a member of the Board because I think
that's a question for the Board.
MR STEIN: So the key recommendation is --
DAME SANDRA: For me, my personal view is that I would like
to have the General Counsel normally present in Board
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meetings.
MR STEIN: Dr Steward, I understand the way this works. You
agree by silence. Further silence.
DAME SANDRA: I think I've said what I -- I think I've made
clear what I think. I hope I've made clear what
I think.
MR STEIN: You were asked a question by Mr Beer yesterday,
and I think your answer was it's outside of your
knowledge. You don't have knowledge of, if you like,
the status of general counsel, whether they actually
have to be a practising lawyer --
DAME SANDRA: No, all I can say is that, in all my
experience, all the general counsels I've known have
been practising lawyers.
MR STEIN: Are you surprised to learn, therefore, that there
is no requirement for general counsel across
companies --
DAME SANDRA: And they are called -- I beg your pardon --
they are called general counsel?
MR STEIN: Yes.
DAME SANDRA: I'm surprised.
MR STEIN: The answer to this is that there are people that
are capable of describing themselves as lawyers who are
actually outside of the regulatory requirements by the
different regulatory bodies, the Bar Standards Board,
33
not directly referenced by their regulators?
DAME SANDRA: As I say, not my area of expertise. Does any
of this apply to the Post Office?
MR STEIN: Well, it would apply in terms of the practice of
general counsel, generally, yes.
DAME SANDRA: I understand it would apply -- well, anyway
it's not for me to ask the questions.
MR STEIN: Right.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: As a matter of fact, just in case I'm
missing something, all the relevant general counsel were
practising lawyers, were they not?
MR STEIN: We believe that's right but the question,
actually
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: No, I --
MR STEIN: _ -- to their work as general counsel and whether
that itself is governed by reserved --
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: No, I follow what you're saying but
I just didn't want to widen my area of investigation to
even discover whether there was a general counsel who
wasn't a practising lawyer. I don't think there is.
MR STEIN: Now, you've discussed with me and indeed
yesterday with Mr Beer, and your evidence was that the
normal expectation is that General Counsel would at
least have an informal dotted line to the Chair, and
we've discussed that. You also discussed how these
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the SRA and others.
DAME SANDRA: I am unfamiliar with that.
MR STEIN: The other types of lawyers that can be appointed
as general counsel generally, could be a lawyer with
a qualification or practising certificate abroad, in
‘other words not applicable here.
DAME SANDRA: I think that would be a special case which
would be considered but, as I say, this not my area of
expertise.
MR STEIN: No, and in relation to the practice of a general
counsel, as a lawyer, do you know whether what they do
when they are working as general counsel, whether that
is governed in the same way as my practice, as
a barrister is; do you know about the regulatory
requirements in relation to their types of practice?
DAME SANDRA: I know in principle and in general.
MR STEIN: So you're aware that I operate and all practising
barristers and solicitors with practising certificates,
we operate under a code of conduct essentially which
governs our work on reserved activities, in other words
going to courts, addressing courts, giving legal advice.
But the work of general counsel is not covered within
reserved activities. Are you aware of that distinction,
that they essentially occupy this oddity, as general
counsel, don't have to be lawyers, doing work that is
34
relationships actually work, work of General Counsel
actually work, it's going to depend upon the body in
which the organisation works and how that develops.
When considering the questions such as General
Counsel and bringing to the attention of the Board
something like the Simon Clarke Advice, is there, in
general corporate practice, a reason to think that
privileged documents, documents subject to legal
privilege, are not brought to the attention of boards?
Now, I note, Dame Sandra and, I think, Dr Steward, you
both have very strong experience of working on boards.
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
MR STEIN: Dame Sandra, I think I saw quite a long list of
boards that you've been a member of. So privileged
documents such as the Simon Clarke Advice, any reason
why it can't go to Board?
DAME SANDRA: In my experience, I have seen quite a number
of privileged documents which come to the board and
which the board is taken within the circle of privilege.
And so that has been my experience. I have never, in my
experience, not seen a document, as far as I know. Of
course it's difficult to know what you've not seen, but
I've not seen a document where I have been unable, or
I've not known of a document, where, as a board member,
I've not been able to access it.
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MR STEIN: Perhaps emphasising what happened within the Post
Office scandal, some legal advices, such as the Simon
Clarke Advices may be more important than others.
DAME SANDRA: Mm-hm.
MR STEIN: Mr Clarke's Advices, in relation to what had been
discovered by Mr Clarke and his colleagues regarding
what they thought was the activities of Mr Jenkins, this
seems to be at the higher end of importance.
DAME SANDRA: Mm, mm.
MR STEIN: So, even if there had been any sort of hesitation
regarding privilege, this should have gone to the Board?
DAME SANDRA: In regard to that -- the Simon Clarke Advice
that we looked at, that was never said to be privileged,
was it, I don't believe. So the reason, if you see what
I mean -- you're asking me a question --
MR STEIN: I do agree.
DAME SANDRA: -- which is not directly relevant to that.
MR STEIN: I understand. Essentially, that doesn't seem to
have been expressed to be the barrier.
DAME SANDRA: Exactly.
MR STEIN: Now, as a body, the Post Office has, as I think
you commented briefly yesterday, it's one of the oldest,
if not the oldest, country-wide bodies in existence. It
was, before separation, a Government body. We've got
also another peculiarity about the Post Office, which is
37
MR STEIN: Can we go, please, to your second report,
EXPG0000010, Dame Sandra, Dr Steward, page 40, please,
within the hard copy, and indeed on screen hopefully.
So I'll be looking at paragraph 140 as well. So
page 40, 140.
So I've asked you a question about the peculiarities
of the operating system and the way that it appears,
then your view, from looking at the evidence, it seemed
to you that the culture of POL did not encouraging
listening or learning from subpostmasters.
Now, we've got example of that, a helpline that has.
been described as the "unhelpful line", being told to
pay up rather than answer people's queries about
problems within the system, so that appears to be the
evidence that appears to be behind at least part of this
thinking.
Paragraph 145, page 41, this was referred to
yesterday, that:
"So deep were the assumptions embedded in the
culture of the organisation, so corrosive was the
company ethos that the Board did not calll the Executive
to account to face up to POL's role in perpetuating the
miscarriages of justice which were increasingly evident
to others.”
Now, the miscarriages of justice that you're
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that the dependence of the working on the Horizon system
is run by a third party, Fujitsu.
We seem to have a structure which is peculiar, in
other words that you've got, first of all, a body that,
in the matters that we're often referring to,
prosecutions, as an example, it prosecuted -- it was
a prosecuting authority; its systems that related to
data that were to be used within prosecution system was
run by a third party, Fujitsu; it was a body that's
a private body from the time of separation, using
corporate jargon, you'll forgive me, with some type of
dotted line towards Government.
DAME SANDRA: Mm.
MR STEIN: It seemed to be operating in a -- is it a unique
organisation in your experiences?
DAME SANDRA: The relationship between the corporation and
Fujitsu, as far as I'm aware is not unusual. I mean,
PFls and other forms, other -- there may be a dependence
upon the supplier and the maintainer of the system
through contractual relationships. As we've seen,
arm's-length bodies, and I think you've heard evidence,
the length of the arm can vary from inches to yards. So
I think, I couldn't say is this absolutely unique? It's
certainly complex and it's certainly, with a long and
complex history.
38
referring to, we need to be careful, don't we, because
we are aware of the miscarriages of justice that went
through the courts, that were looked at in the criminal
courts of appeal and convictions overturned, but there's
also the miscarriages of justice that went through the
civil courts --
DAME SANDRA: Mm-hm.
MR STEIN: -- that were referred to in the High Court. Then
there's the miscarriages of justice that also occurred
as a result of audits, audits carried out by the Post
Office, which would close people's branches down without
the intervention of the courts, either civil or criminal
courts.
So these injustices, that you're referring to, the
miscarriages of justice, are not just about court
results and behaviour in prosecution, either civil or
criminal; do you agree with that?
DAME SANDRA: We agree.
Do you agree?
DR STEWARD: Yes.
MR STEIN: So hopefully you will agree that, in order, in
fact, to try and ensure that an organisation holds true
to values of honesty, trust and duty, this needs to
be -- these values, this culture, change that clearly
has to go from a corrosive culture to something that is
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the opposite, there has to be significant organisational
change?
DAME SANDRA: We feel strongly, I think, that significant
cultural change, certainly from this, is required.
MR STEIN: Now, one of the aspects of cultural change and
about people finding a voice is whistleblowing. Okay.
DAME SANDRA: Mm-hm.
MR STEIN: Whistleblowing is not new, it's been discussed.
I noted in your chart, it's, in fact, going back to
pre-2000, the --
DAME SANDRA: Yes, the 1996 Public Interest Disclosure Act,
as we talked about, which gives employment rights for
whistleblowing.
MR STEIN: I'm going to quote from a footnote in Christopher
Hodges book, Law and Corporate Behaviour, which is the
2015 edition, which is important for context of these
matters.
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
MR STEIN: For anybody that wished to look at it, it's
page 527 of that work, it's a quote from a quote. So
it's from "Whistleblowing and Corporate Governance: the
Role of Internal Audit in Whistleblowing". It says
this:
"There is a symbiotic relationship between
whistleblowing and an organisation's culture. Effective
41
Interest Act is important.
And I think that, in my experience, both in terms of
codes of guidance and in terms of board's attention,
there has been a greater attempt to try to make sure
that one has systems in place to ensure that there is
strength behind the possibility that people could speak
up, so the requirement for whistleblowing champions, for
example.
But it's fundamental to hear the voices without
fear, to a healthy culture.
Do you want to --
DR STEWARD: I think -- I mean, your quote from the book,
I think it shows two sides of the coin and that
whistleblowing is, if you like, that is the legal
process, that is the route by which, if I have a genuine
concern about something which is against the public
interest, a poorly performing surgeon, or a genuine
occlusion of facts, then I have the route to be able to
take that without fear of losing my job or of being
bullied, or whatever.
The other side of the coin is a culture in which, at
every level, there is an expectation that people will be
able to talk about things which are going wrong. If you
like, there is an expectation of being able to speak up,
but those things are -- it is quite important, I think,
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internal whistleblowing arrangements are an important
part of a healthy corporate culture, but it is also
crucial to have the right organisational culture, which
encourages people to speak out without fear.”
Now, I've chosen that quote because it emphasises
the importance of whistleblowing. I can take you, if
you wish, to where you deal with this within I think
it's your first report, but perhaps I don't need to go
to the page. Why is whistleblowing so important? What
does it do to an organisation to actually change
culture?
DAME SANDRA: If it works well, people don't fear for their
livelihood or their job or their prospects, if they see
something which they believe is in the public interest
for them to reveal. It mustn't be a personal grievance,
if I feel very aggrieved by something I must take that
through a grievance procedure, as an individual, but if
I feel there is a wider public interest and people
should know about any element of wrongdoing or behaviour
‘or, even nowadays, spoken harassment, which of course is
against the law, that there should be a right to do
that. And, increasingly, although it's been there since
1996, that right to protection, of course, anyone could
speak up since the year dot but they might not have had
that protection, so the protection of the Public
42
for organisations to distinguish between the
whistleblowing and the talking about grievances which
are about things that happen in my team or things that
happen in the workplace, and that's a cultural and
leadership issue.
They join at the top because you want to have
an organisation in which speaking up is --
MR STEIN: Dr Steward, I'm very grateful for that. I'm
going to just come back to that in one moment.
I'm just going to stay with, if you like, classic
whistleblowing and another quote, this time from
Professor Hodges himself:
“Whistleblowing has been said to involve
a triangular relationship between the reporting
individual, the detected organisational misconduct at
a particular institutional setting, and the regulatory
regime that defines the contours of legality.”
I think what the good professor is saying is that
whistleblowing needs to involve someone's ability to be
able to report organisational misconduct but not
necessarily directly back to the very self-same
organisation that they distrust. Within the Post
Office, we know that there are whistleblowing champions.
Is there anything, given the background, to ensure that
there is an outside route?
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DAME SANDRA: The point you're making is that, if you want
to report wrongdoing, then it's clearly inappropriate
you report that wrongdoing to the person who is doing
the wrong. And there have always been arrangements by
which you could circumvent that.
I think you're asking is there a need for an
extra organisational route --
MR STEIN: Within the Post Office, it's about --
DAME SANDRA: Within the Post Office itself because that
really comes to the Post Office of today, which we
haven't paid -- which, you know, is outside the scope of
‘our report. And it's, of course, a matter of opinion.
My personal view is that the more you outsource, the
less you absolutely require the board and the executive
to take responsibility themselves, and so I would be
cautious about having an external route. I would need
to understand really why it was necessary but I would,
above all, like the responsibilities for making sure
that whistleblowing is effective to be really held by
the Executive and the Board of the Post Office.
MR STEIN: Dame Sandra, we're in a situation whereby we are
learning today, and we will learn, it seems, next year,
more details about the organisational changes. But
these are matters that essentially we are asking Sir Wyn
to take into account to consider when we learn more
45
saying, that whistleblowing, yes, strong and important
for any organisation and its culture, but also there
must be the ability in a strong moral company for people
to be able to speak up and speak to other people and
find others that will listen to them.
DR STEWARD: I mean, nobody would contest with that, I don't
think at all. I think the difficulty is that you can
have a formal process, but people will not use it,
unless they believe that there is -- that it will work
for them. So of the two words that come to mind when
people talk about whistleblowing is "fear" and
futility"; "If I speak up, will I be penalised? If
I speak up, will anything happen?"
So just having the process and just having
an external body wouldn't, I don't think, provide the
full assurance that the organisation itself had owned
what it was going to take to make whistleblowing work.
And I think that's Sandra's point, that it would need to
be discussed by the Executive and the Board that this is
something that we want to make happen in our
organisation and make work, make real.
MR STEIN: My last topic is duty of candour. Now, this is
discussed variously, Hillsborough Law, this has been
discussed in other reports from other inquiries this
year, Grenfell Inquiry report, the Blood Inquiry report,
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detail.
DAME SANDRA: Yes, but you take -- my point is clear.
I want strong whistleblowing in my view, but I do feel
the responsibility for that should be strongly felt by
those who are running the Post Office.
MR STEIN: Dr Steward, addressing the point you made before
I went to, if you like, the classic routes for
whistleblowing: essentially whistleblowing provides
a route for individuals to be able to make complaints,
hopefully without fear, there are issues regarding the
statutory regulation as apply, I think, to employees,
not necessarily to contractors or individuals that are
self-employed. So there are issues regarding the law at
the moment.
But Dr Steward, you were talking about that
whistleblowing is one aspect of matters. What is
required? Again, I'll quote from Professor Hodges:
"Accordingly, official recommendations stress the
need for best practice in policies, accountability,
governance, multiple routes for information, including
the line management, leapfrogging Human Resources audit,
audit committees, directors, external routes, feedback
on publication after reporting, providing reassurance,
briefing managers, checking awareness of staff.”
Unless I misunderstand what Professor Hodges is
46
the duty of candour and its applicability.
Do you see that the duty of candour, which is a duty
to not just tell the truth, which is not a bad idea, but
also a wider duty to actually investigate, look at
things in more detail -- you know, instead of just
giving a standard answer, actually look at what there is
by way of evidence and information -- do you see that
that duty of candour should apply to a body such as the
Post Office which is a hybrid, private/Government body?
DAME SANDRA: Do you want to go?
DR STEWARD: I'm going to go back a step to the conversation
that you had before you got into the specifics of the
General Counsel role, and, at that point, I think we
were debating the Nolan Principles versus the commercial
governance model. Yesterday we drew attention to
a paragraph in our report which said that we felt that
the governance was underdeveloped or we had heard from
numerous Non-Executives that the governance of the Post
Office was underdeveloped at the point. If it is
underdeveloped, then all of the frameworks, the risk
frameworks, the values frameworks, what sort of
leadership we want, Nolan Principles or a code of
ethics, those will be underdeveloped.
So in a sense, irrespective of which framework, it
wasn't yet at a stage, it felt to me, where those
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frameworks were really driving behaviours. And that
could apply as much to the risk management as to the
Nolan Principles.
So this question, which you were going to answer ...
DAME SANDRA: Well, I think on the duty of candour, the
question of "legally, should it apply" is a matter for
those who make the law. With regard to the duty of
candour, as I understand it, and of course it does apply
in health and social work as well --
MR STEIN: The NHS, yes.
DAME SANDRA: Yes --
MR STEIN: Ministerial departments rather more complex.
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
MR STEIN: In other words, the answer is no.
DAME SANDRA: Sorry --
MR STEIN: Ata ministerial level and departments the
question of the duty of candour's application is
alittle bit more debatable. There are other governance
structures that arguably support better behaviour.
DAME SANDRA: If! could rephrase the question, which I'll
answer, should the meaning of candour apply to the
values within the Post Office? Yes, in my view it
should. Whether or not that is a duty of candour and
how that would be applied, I cannot say. But the
candour, in the terms as you say, not simply answering
49
principles should not apply. One would argue that they
should apply.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Fine, thank you.
DAME SANDRA: In the spirit of being a director.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Fine, thanks very much.
Well, we're on our best behaviour, Mr Beer, in terms
of timing, so we'll take our morning break, I take it
now.
MRBEER: 11.10, please.
MR STEIN: I Sir, I'm sorry for letting you down on that.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: You never cease to amaze me, Mr Stein.
(10.55 am)
(A short break)
(11.14 am)
MR BEER: Have you got a proper line of sight to everyone
you need to see there, Mr Moloney?
Questioned by MR MOLONEY
MR MOLONEY: = (Microphone muted) and I promise to take much
longer than I said I will, sir, just to ...
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: There's been a running joke: Mr Moloney
‘on the whole keeps to time. Now he's defying me.
That's all.
MR MOLONEY: Dame Sandra and Dr Steward, I've three matters
to ask you about, if I may. Firstly, institutional
memory; secondly, a specific aspect of the role of the
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the face value question, as far as boards are concerned
is a requirement to delve deeper.
MR STEIN: Excuse me one moment -- sorry?
DR STEWARD: The duty of candour needs to be matched with
a duty to listen. I mean, the candour puts
an obligation duty on me to speak up if I see something
wrong; there needs to be an obligation, corresponding
duty.
MR STEIN: One moment, please. Thank you very much.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Thank you, Mr Stein.
I just want to ask you to go back, if you would, to
the Nolan Principles. Not in the context of whether,
almost as a matter of process, they would apply, but how
they relate to what you would expect of the behaviour of
a director.
DAME SANDRA: Yes, they well describe it. I mean, I would
expect exactly --
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, it was striking me -- I'm not
a company lawyer but I've got a reasonable grasp of
what's involved. Effectively, those seven principles
are summing-up how a director of a company should
behave, are they not?
DAME SANDRA: Whether they're exhaustive, I can't say --
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: No, sure.
DAME SANDRA: -- but one could not argue that those
50
company's secretary; and, thirdly and finally,
overboarding.
So taking them in turn, if I may, institutional
memory first. The Inquiry has heard evidence from
a number of individuals who were both involved in the
development and rollout of Horizon, and then in the
later operation of the business. So for example, you
identified the role of Mr Miller, then the Chief
Operating Officer in the Cleveleys case that you looked
at.
I'd like to ask you about institutional memory, and
how that should function within a business where you
have people who work through a considerable time.
Generally, is there a responsibility to ensure that,
within any effective governance model, institutional
memory concerning risk is preserved?
DAME SANDRA: In principle, there is undoubtedly good
practice that institutional memory with regard to risk
should be maintained and should be built on. In
practice, it's often difficult in organisations. So
‘one -- I can't say that there are many ideal examples
where things are not forgotten, and the question is: how
do you reduce the possibility of them being forgotten?
And systematic induction and training, which is informed
from the past, can be one way, and policies which -- by
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which I mean not policies which sit on a shelf, are
ticked off every year and not regarded, but policies
which really are made real in the organisation are
another way because those policies, which now, in good
practice, should be renewed -- reviewed at certain
periods, maybe annually, maybe twice, every two years,
maybe every three years. That very process of policy
enunciation, review and implementation can help with
maintaining institutional memory.
On the other hand, I think there probably is no.
organisation in the land where something is done and
someone says, "Oh, we did that 10 years ago and we
didn't learn the lessons", or "we did learn the
lessons". So it's a very difficult thing to maintain
but it is vitally important to try to do so.
MR MOLONEY: I suppose the nature of that risk would inform
the absolute necessity to ensure that that risk was
monitored?
DAME SANDRA: The build of risk registers, the build of
understanding of where the risks are, and if -- you
can't just forget risks, they're on a register, and you
should then be able to see what's happened to them. You
may decide to take them off because you may decide
they're no longer relevant, but forgetting major risks
is a major problem.
53
that risk. With that history of bugs, errors and
defects in the development of Horizon, would you have
expected that kind of information to have been brought
to the attention of the Executive, and/or the Board when
apparently similar problems appeared after the rollout
of Horizon, when Horizon was being operated in 10,000 or
so branches across the country?
DAME SANDRA: We would certainly have expected that there
was discussion, that there was sharing and that,
particularly once we got to Second Sight in 2013, which
was, as you know, a case that we've looked at, that
there was sufficient there for it to be collectively
looked at.
DR STEWARD: Yes.
MR MOLONEY: Are you aware that many witnesses in the
Inquiry have said that they knew nothing about the
problems and developments in the rollout of Horizon
identified in Phase 2 of this Inquiry?
DAME SANDRA: In general terms, yes.
MR MOLONEY: Are you surprised about that institutional
amnesia within an organisation like Post Office?
DAME SANDRA: I am surprised.
MR MOLONEY: In that case, can I take it one further: does
it beggar belief?
DAME SANDRA: I think I'll stick at "surprised".
55
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MR MOLONEY: So the types of processes, Dame Sandra and
Dr Steward, would be risk registers, as you've already
mentioned, that's one way of ensuring that an important
risk is not forgotten, also perhaps operational
management and monitoring of those risk registers,
making sure that there are proper structures in place to
ensure that those risk registers are effectively
monitored.
DAME SANDRA: The risk management, identification,
mitigation process, the risk management framework, is
very important in that regard.
Do you want add to anything?
DR STEWARD: No, I mean, I was going to simply make the
point that stories -- stories and the stories which
people tell in organisations tend to become the
institutional memory as much as the hardwired risk
management processes, which is why you need the risk
processes.
MR MOLONEY: Of course and, essentially, a management of
risk flow, as you describe in your report.
But, in terms of stories, we know that there was
a history of problems, of bugs, errors and defects in
the development of Horizon. This is why I asked you
about the nature of the risk and the extent to which the
nature of the risk would inform the necessity to monitor
54
MR MOLONEY: Stick at surprised, thank you. Okay.
Can I ask you about the Company Secretary and you
were asked by Mr Beer yesterday about the role of the
Company Secretary in relation to the Board, including as
regards responsibility for governance and compliance
with legal obligations. You dealt with the division of
responsibility between the General Counsel and the
Company Secretary.
DAME SANDRA: I did, within the context that the Company
Secretary has duties within the Code and the General
Counsel does not.
MR MOLONEY: Of course, of course. The Inquiry heard
evidence from a Mr Jonathan Evans, who was the Company
Secretary at Royal Mail Group. I don't know if you've
come across his name during the course of your
researches.
DAME SANDRA: We haven't looked at his evidence.
MR MOLONEY: You have?
DAME SANDRA: We haven't looked at his evidence.
MR MOLONEY: I don't need to take you to his evidence,
really. I don't need to take you to his evidence, I'll
just give you a very brief summary though of what he
said. Prior to his appointment as Company Secretary,
he'd been Network Director at POCL, Post Office Counters
Limited, during the development of Horizon and, after
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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
taking up the Company Secretary role, he remained in
post at POL and RMG as Company Secretary until 2010. So
that's --
DAME SANDRA: Until 2010?
MR MOLONEY: Yes. So, as it were, he's there as the Network
Director at POCL, during the development of Horizon, and
he stays in post until 2010, where he's Company
Secretary at POL and RMG. He gave evidence that lawyers
reported to him at times during that time in post.
You've observed that, before separation, there was
a dual accountability for prosecutions shared by RMG and
POL.
DAME SANDRA: Mm-hm.
MR MOLONEY: Would there have been any responsibility on the
Company Secretary, or anybody else, to ensure that both
Boards, that's RMG and POL, were adequately informed of
the duties of POL, the duties that POL owed as
a prosecutor, and the steps being taken within the
business to discharge those duties and protect the
reputation of the business?
DAME SANDRA: AsI say, we've not looked in detail at this,
or even really in no detail. But with regard to the
specifics of the duties of the POL Board versus that of
RMG, POL was a subsidiary of the Royal Mail Holdings
Group and, as such, the nature of the board that it had
57
MR MOLONEY: = -- with the central involvement of POL in those
prosecutions -- it's subpostmasters or postmasters who
work for POL who were being prosecuted - would you have
expected, essentially, the POL Board to have been
properly informed about the nature of those prosecutions
going forward, prior to separation?
DAME SANDRA: We have said, I believe, and I think we said
or implied this yesterday, that in our view there was
a lack of clarity about that responsibility and what the
responsibility really entailed, with regard to being
a prosecuting authority in this is hybrid way, and we
remain surprised, and it appears to us to have been
a very important part of Post Office operations, which
we're surprised there wasn't clarity and there wasn't
quite clear and strong reporting.
MR MOLONEY: Thank you. Can I finally ask you about
‘overboarding and the individuals who were appointed to
the Chairmanship and the Board of RMG and POL, were
generally very experienced individuals, many of whom had
portfolio careers towards retirement. That isn't
an unusual practice, is it, Dame Sandra?
DAME SANDRA: Not unusual at all.
MR MOLONEY: Essentially, experience and the name, those are
attractive commodities, aren't they, for people being
recruited to boards?
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was a matter for decision by RMG. I mean, there was no
requirement, as we saw, that they should have
independent non-executive directors, they could have
chosen to have an executive board. So the structure was
within the holding company, within their thing. POL
couldn't say, "We must have X" because that was not
their accountability.
Having said that, then the role of the Company
Secretary is very much in terms of the administration
and the running of the Board and the maintaining of
account of the frameworks and codes and laws in
practice.
Where an individual has knowledge about -- not about
the governance framework but about whether or not X has
happened in the business, one would normally expect what
X knew about the business to inform his or her
discussion about matters in the Board, but I don't think
you can say there is the direct requirement. You might
say there is an expectation.
MR MOLONEY: Around prosecutions, obviously, prosecutions by
a private body, private/public body --
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
MR MOLONEY: -- as private prosecutions, not simply
reporting to a public prosecutor --
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
58
DAME SANDRA: Sorry, I didn't catch that.
MR MOLONEY: Having experience, having a profile, attractive
commodities, as it were, for people being recruited.
DAME SANDRA: Apparently.
MR MOLONEY: People often develop a portfolio of such
appointments?
DAME SANDRA: They do.
MR MOLONEY: The Inquiry has seen, in Post Office's case,
an example of accountability: the approach taken to the
nuclear option of the removal of Mr Staunton. Aside
from that sort of nuclear option, what checks are there
‘on the performance of directors in role?
DAME SANDRA: Of course we're dealing with a large 20-year
period and that which we would expect now probably
wasn't current at the beginning and, in the middle, it
would be half and half. Now, there is very clear
requirement to report one's other directorships in the
annual report and, in the recruitment of non-executive
directors, the question is always asked about do you
have the time? And so there is an initial -- and
I think the question would have been asked definitely in
2013, "Do you have the time to fulfil this role?"
So there's an initial exchange between the
institution and the person about whether or not they
have the time.
60
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MR MOLONEY: Can I stop you there, Dame Sandra, just for
a moment because the question I'm asking at the moment
is not about at the appointment stage: it's more
a question of when in role and about what checks there
are on directors when they are in role. So, for
example, whether or not there is any mandatory training
or continual professional development whilst in role, or
any appraisal system whilst in role.
DAME SANDRA: I began by talking about the appointment
because that is, if you like, the initial contract,
and -- the initial implicit contract between the
individual and the organisation. With regard to -- I've
talked already, I believe, about induction and training,
which is extremely important, and then with regard to
their performance of the role, it's normal to have board
evaluations every -- the periodicity changes but it may
be every one, every two or every three years, sometimes
involving external facilitation. And in that, a good
board effectiveness, you not only give your overall
views on the effectiveness of the board but one is
normally asked about the effectiveness of individuals,
anonymously. I mean, they don't -- Dr Steward will not
say, "I think Dame Sandra is" -- she won't name me but
she'll give her view on my performance.
‘And, again, in my experience, where it's felt that
61
recruitment to Boards and about how it was perhaps maybe
different in the '90s than it is now.
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
MR MOLONEY: So was the problem of overboarding as well
understood in the early part of the period covered by
this Inquiry, let's say the late '90s?
DAME SANDRA: I don't recall there being so much emphasis
upon how one was managing one's portfolio in the ‘90s as
there is now.
MR MOLONEY: There are developments now and we know there is
guidance, there is the Code, and so on.
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
MR MOLONEY: Are there any hard legal limits on
overboarding?
DAME SANDRA: As I say, legal limits -- legal, actually,
based in law -- I don't believe so, but I may be --
someone may correct me.
MR MOLONEY: Right.
DAME SANDRA: I think, if I could say that, with regard to
the recruitment now, and in financial services there
is -- there are some specific requirements. I have been
well aware of a number of cases where someone has wanted
to take a role which they've been offered, but the
condition of their taking the role is that they will
give up something in their portfolio. So, to that
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someone really isn't given the time or isn't on top of
the role, then the chair would have a discussion with
them. But with regard to mandatory requirements,
I think it is left with the board. There have, from
time to time, been no chairman can be chairman of more
than one FTSE 350 company at a time, but that at the
moment is a bit more relaxed.
MR MOLONEY: But essentially, in terms of performance
management, if I can use that generic term, then it
essentially comes down to the observations of executive
directors and other non-executive directors as to the
performance of a director?
DAME SANDRA: Of board peers, yes.
MR MOLONEY: Yes, and perhaps somebody raising a red flag
about somebody?
DAME SANDRA: More likely at the beginning, a quiet
conversation, “we're worried you don't read the papers
we're worried you're not doing the work, do you have the
time?"
MR MOLONEY: You spoke about the development of, as it were,
the recruitment process and, of course, yesterday you
were asked about the development of thinking on
whistleblowing. So I'd like to take you back and that's
why I stopped you, because I wanted to ask you a few
more questions about the development of thinking on
62
extent, there is a discussion at that recruitment stage,
and their acceptance of a role may be conditional upon
their giving up other aspects of their portfolio.
MR MOLONEY: Can we look at UKGI00044277, please. Thank
you. If we can just go to the bottom of this first
page, please, it's a guidance note. Have you seen this
guidance note at all before?
DAME SANDRA: I haven't seen this one.
MR MOLONEY: It's a UKGI document.
DAME SANDRA: It's 2020, I see.
MR MOLONEY: That's it. 2020 is important because there's
been a consultation, a relatively recent consultation on
overboarding and --
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
MR MOLONEY: = -- shall we come back to that once we've just
looked at this document? So the Institutional
Shareholders Service gives some guidance, and it reads
at the bottom:
"Where directors have multiple board appointments,
ISS may recommend a vote against directors who appear to
hold an excessive number of board rolls at
publicly-listed companies ..."
Right at the bottom where the yellow mark is.
DAME SANDRA: Okay.
MR MOLONEY: I I'll just read it again but it's, essentially,
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when people have got multiple board appointments, then
the ISS can recommend a vote against directors if it
appears to be excessive.
DAME SANDRA: Perhaps we could scroll up or down?
MR MOLONEY: We're going to because it gives further
guidance. You probably know, in fact, but onto the next
page, please, at the top.
"Any person who holds more than five mandates at
listed companies will be classified as overboarded. For
the purposes of calculating this limit, a non-executive
directorship counts as one mandate, a non-executive
chairmanship counts as two mandates, and a position as
executive director (or a comparable role) is counted as
three mandates.
"Also, any person who holds the position of
executive director (or a comparable role) at one company
and a non-executive chairman at a different company will
be classified as overboarded."
That guidance is 2020. In 2023, there has been
a consultation, hasn't there, to, as it were, develop
the Code.
DAME SANDRA: Yes, I think if we could just possibly look at
the previous page which begins, I think this is the
advice from ISS, isn't it?
MR MOLONEY: tis, yes.
65
account other demands on the directors’ time.
During the consultation, in relation to this FRC.
Code, was it floated that there might be a maximum of
posts that a director could hold?
DAME SANDRA: There was a discussion, I believe, in various
places around board tables, informally, about whether
there was going to be a requirement.
MR MOLONEY: Yes, and, in the end, there was a conclusion
that there was not going to be.
DAME SANDRA: That is what my understanding is, unless you
tell me my understanding is misplaced.
MR MOLONEY: I'm not going to say that, Dame Sandra, but
should there be a statutory limit on the number of
mandates or appointments which can be taken at any one
time?
DAME SANDRA: As someone who has, in the past, had quite
a full portfolio, I would say that my personal guidance
has been: do I have the time to do the job properly?
And if I should choose to do that by working a week
which wouldn't be recognised by most people as a working
week, then in a way that's up to me and it's up to my
peers to decide whether or not I'm fulfilling my
obligations.
I understand ISS's point of view about counting the
mandates, and they want to have a basis on whether
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DAME SANDRA: And ISS is an institutional shareholder proxy
body. It's not -- it represents, I believe -- perhaps
we could go down to the bottom of the page? Yes,
institution, ISS. That is not -- their statement and
their classification of mandate shows how they will vote
at annual general meetings about the appointment of
directors.
MR MOLONEY: Absolutely.
DAME SANDRA: So it shouldn't be confused as guidance, in
the way in which we've described guidance here.
MR MOLONEY: Indeed. But then we see the FRC Code 2018.
DAME SANDRA: That they should have sufficient time.
I mean, I think that FRC code is exactly the code that
I enunciated at the very beginning of our conversation
about the question of do non-executives have sufficient
time; are they going to provide constructive challenge
and strategic guidance, offer specialist advice and hold
management to account? That's exactly -- do they have
enough time to do that?
MR MOLONEY: Precisely, so we have the ISS with the five
mandates and --
DAME SANDRA: But the ISS is very different to the FRC Code.
MR MOLONEY: I completely understand that, Dame Sandra, but
then the FRC code is set out there, it's Principle H and
paragraph 15, essentially, the board should take into
66
they're going to vote for the reappointment of directors
or not. For me, that's a rather too formulaic approach,
just my personal view, but I'm passionately sure that
people need to have the time, and I do think that, when
boards have people who are not putting the time in,
there should be very clear ways of the discussions going
so that they either give up some of their portfolio or
they don't give up that particular job.
But I think that I would personally have that within
the realms of the discussion of the board. But that's
a very personal view.
MR MOLONEY: So you would keep the assessment of whether
a person is doing their job properly as it is?
DAME SANDRA: I would -- and I do think boards are the best
place for doing that, if they take responsibility for
doing so.
MR MOLONEY: Of course, that's then dependent on the board
taking responsibility in that sense, isn't it?
DAME SANDRA: It does.
MR MOLONEY: Is there a case for a different and more
directive approach in the public sector as opposed to
the private sector?
DAME SANDRA: I believe that the public sector needs and
deserves directors who will do their job properly, and
that requires them to give the time. I don't see why
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the approach that I've adopted should be different for
the public sector to the private sector. But others may
disappear. But I think the fundamental thing is that
directors have got responsibilities, and those
responsibilities should be discharged.
MR MOLONEY: So precisely because you are, as it were,
determinant of the effectiveness of being a director
relies on whether or not they are able to give
sufficient time, then there should be no difference in
principle between public and private on that basis?
DAME SANDRA: They should give sufficient time. That, of
course, isn't sufficient. They should bring expertise,
they should be good at it, and so on but, at the level
of time, I don't see that there should be a difference
between the public and private.
MR MOLONEY: You believe that the assessment of whether or
not they are able to devote sufficient time with, of
course, their expertise and other factors being, as it
were, taken for granted anyway, on their appointment,
but whether or not the assessment of that should be as
it is now: that it's about feedback from other
directors?
DAME SANDRA: I wouldn't propose any further regulation but
I must find out from my colleague what she would say.
DR STEWARD: I think it's feedback from other directors,
69
Questioned by MS WATT
MS WATT: Thank you, sir.
DAME SANDRA: I can't see where I'm looking.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Have we got a direct sight line?
DAME SANDRA: It's fine now, I know where I'm looking.
I can see.
MS WATT: Good afternoon -- not quite, still it's good
morning, sorry.
Good morning, Dame Sandra and Dr Steward.
I ask questions for the National Federation of
SubPostmasters, a Core Participant in the Inquiry, and
the NFSP has 6,500 postmaster members, across 8,500 post
offices in the UK. I'm going to look at your first and
second reports just in brief summary and then ask
a couple of questions.
In your first and second reports you highlight not
just cultural failings at the Post Office but you
identify the reasons for that. It seems to be embedded
in the way in which the senior leadership over the years
treated the employees and stakeholders, such as the
postmasters. You highlight a complete failure of the
Board across the years to identify risks, and a failure
to be transparent, properly induct incoming Board
members. You list a range of failings.
You say at section B3.3 of your second report -- I'm
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including the executive, and the executive team will
have a strong sense in the public sector as to whether
they want to use non-executive directors in order to do
things which might be outside the bounds of a commercial
board non-executive director, like spending more time
visiting services, or -- but that -- I do think there's
a danger of blurring the boundaries between the
non-executives and the executives if you say that the
non-executives in the public sector should have more
time to give to the role.
I think that's --
MR MOLONEY: Dr Steward, I was focusing, rather, at that
stage not on the distinction between the public and
private but whether or not, in general, assuming that
the acid test for whether or not a director is
discharging their duties properly will be, in essence,
the extent to which they can properly give time, that
the assessment of that is best left as it is, which is
through the review at the end of the year or at the end
of the three years or at the end of the two years,
whichever it is.
DR STEWARD: Yes.
MR MOLONEY: Thank you. That's all I ask, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Thank you, Mr Moloney.
I think it's Ms Watt next, yes?
70
not going to call it up, I'm just going to summarise
what you say there:
"In Report 1 we described the culture as the
attitudes, values and beliefs which are experienced in
the company, in other words the company ethos, which is
revealed in the way the company treats all its workforce
and stakeholders, it's hard to change. It is by no
means unusual for strong, damaging beliefs and
attitudes, a corrosive ethos, to persist unless
seriously and systematically changed. Determination to
effect cultural change requires that the culture is seen
by the board and one hopes, at least in time, following
direction by the board, the executive as seriously
damaging to the company. Only then can culture be
systematically addressed through changes and structures,
policies, practices, as well as in addressing apparent
indifference or even violations of core human values,
commonly used language, and exhibited behaviour in
everyday life in the organisation."
So taking that, based on what you say in your
reports, is it fair to say that it's going to take
a huge and consistent effort to effect the necessary
change at the Post Office and in the Board, given what
you describe?
DAME SANDRA: It is a huge job. It is not to be underrated.
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The extent to which one can change culture has many,
many, many different aspects. They need to be
coordinated and, above all, there needs to be very
strong commitment to sustain the work in order to change
the culture.
Do you want add?
DR STEWARD: I would agree that culture changes is
protracted and people think it's easy or think it's
a quick fix; there isn't. Having said that, I think
there are ways of improving governance, which can be
done quite quickly, and the relationship between
governance and culture is a very close one.
MS WATT: So not necessarily instant but could be short,
medium and long-term ways in which things could be dealt
with?
DR STEWARD: Yes.
DAME SANDRA: One wants a direction of travel but the
sustained emphasis and the coordinated emphasis is
really important.
MS WATT: How difficult do you think that is, or has been,
when you've been looking back at the level of change
across the Board and in the senior leadership? Does
that take a difference if you've effectively got
a revolving door?
DAME SANDRA: Well, we're dealing with a long period here.
73
terms of achieving oversight, challenge, curiosity, the
things that you've identified in your report as being
necessary, the NFSP has put forward to Government and
the Post Office the idea of an oversight committee. It
would be made up of a range of representative bodies,
consumer champions, Government representation, and it
would have a role in overseeing the Board.
DAME SANDRA: Mm.
MS WATT: The former head of UKGI, Sir Alex Chisholm, in his
witness statement and recent evidence, and I appreciate
you're not across the whole of Phase 7, thought that
something like this might unfortunately be necessary,
given the history of what's happened. As I say, I hear
what you say about the longer-term aim being for the
board to perhaps, if I can summarise, stand on its own
two feet and do the right thing at the right time, but
thinking about that reasoning of Sir Alex, it may be
something for the medium term to steady the ship and
build public confidence in the Post Office.
I'll summarise some of the key aims for it and then
ask you a question. This is very broad. It doesn't
have to be this oversight committee: an oversight
committee or something like it. The key aims would be
to challenge the strategy of the Post Office and the
Board and ask questions about risk, to improve
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The revolving door can be a great opportunity because
you get a fresh pair of eyes. The revolving door can be
a very great disadvantage because people become cynical
and think everyone who comes in will say they'll do
something different and won't do anything different so
I think it could be both -- the revolving door could be
both an advantage and disadvantage. It depends upon the
commitment and the real understanding that there is the
need for change.
MS WATT: Would you agree that the real losers of the
failures that you've looked at and outlined in the
culture and governance at every turn are the postmasters
and the public they serve?
DAME SANDRA: I didn't hear the beginning of the question?
MS WATT: Would you agree that the real losers of the
failures that you identify in culture and governance are
the postmasters and the public they serve?
DAME SANDRA: Well, I think that those people who work in
organisations with the sort of culture that we describe
are not working at their best and, mostly, are not going
to be able to do the jobs that they, I'm sure, wish that
they could do. So with regard to who is the loser,
I think that's for everyone to decide. I think the
impact of having a poor culture is felt by everybody.
MS WATT: Just changing topics slightly but following on, in
74
transparency and corporate accountability, to ensure the
Government uses the powers it has to improve the culture
at the Post Office and rebuild trust in the brand, and
to demonstrate that a diverse group of people can work
together for the needs of the Post Office Network.
So what I wanted to ask was: would you accept that
something like an oversight committee could be
established as one of the ways forward, in at least the
medium term, in restoring public and postmaster
confidence in the Post Office while the Board does
indeed get to grips with the things that you've
identified as being past failures?
DAME SANDRA: You'll find a theme from me about future
change, which is that I don't want to suggest anything
which suggests that the Board of the Post Office
themselves have to own these problems and find ways of
solving them. I don't want the possibility that
an oversight board or would be -- "Well, that's for the
‘oversight board". I want the extent of responsibility
and accountability to be felt deeply for doing all the
things that we have described in our report.
And, for that reason, I'm not sure about the
oversight committee. I understand its relationship, for
example, to the dual board structure that one might have
in Continental Europe, which I spoke about yesterday,
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and it's rather similar to that.
However, I think -- and the things you identified,
challenge, improving transparency, ensuring Government
use powers appropriately, demonstrating that people can
work together, these are exactly the things the Board
has got to do and, therefore, I am -- I want to put the
spotlight on the Board to do them.
However, the importance of consultation, the
importance of listening, is so great that I do think
that one could begin to look at something like the
present arrangements with the FCA, with Financial
Conduct Authority, which -- from when it was set up.
There are a number of panels -- there are consumer
panels, market practitioner panels, market -- which are
required to -- they're properly appointed, their Chair
reports in to the Board, they have to be listened to.
And I can speak as someone who, in the previous
incarnation on the Financial Services Authority, those
reports that came in from the panels were extremely
important.
So my view would be something within the structure
which does give confidence that there is a real voice,
where the -- how they work is a subject for agreement.
That is important. And I would personally prefer that
to the notion often an oversight board which I fear may
77
Post Office Board. My impression is that the Board
would prefer a more passive Postmaster NED not
challenging decisions and Senior Executives directly."
Now, that's the recent past. So it would appear not
very much listening, according to them, is going on.
What I wanted to ask you, and you mentioned also
yesterday you talked about conflicts of interest, and of
course that can arise with directors’ duties, but would
you agree that, having the Postmaster NEDs, the Post
Office still needs to ensure they use other routes such
as representative bodies for postmaster engagement and
obtaining postmaster views, in other words those NEDs
can't be the only word on postmaster views to the Board?
DAME SANDRA: I would agree.
MS WATT: Thank you. Those are my questions.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: It's Mr Casey now, is it?
MR CASEY: Yes, itis.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Have you got a proper side to everyone,
Mr Casey?
MR CASEY: I can see them both now, yes.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: We can hear you clearly now I think,
fine.
Questioned by MR CASEY
MR CASEY: I'm going to ask some questions on behalf of
Paula Vennells, the former CEO.
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take away from the responsibilities of the Board itself
to do the right thing.
MS WATT: So there could be an adaptation or some of the
principles could be adopted and looked at how that could
be introduced?
DAME SANDRA: I've described how I think it might be done
and I think there are models with other public bodies
which put those into their governance.
MS WATT: Just thinking about something you mentioned there
in relation to listening, and just the final topic that
Ihave, and looking at some examples -- this is looking
back a little bit -- in relation to the Board and the
ways in which it has, in the more recent past, tried to
improve the optics, if I might put it like that, by
creating the role of Postmaster NEDs. But in their
Inquiry witness statements and in their oral evidence,
again, Phase 7, and appreciate you haven't seen all of
that, Mr Jacobs, one of those Postmaster NEDs, in his
witness statement said:
"Mr Ismail and I have raised issues in meetings and
made requests that do not seem to result in action. As
set out above, we had to make several requests for
updates on Past Roles and Project Phoenix before we
received satisfactory updates. This creates the
impression that Mr Ismail and I are an annoyance to the
78
I'm going to ask two sets of questions. The first
are questions are based on assumed facts, which I'm
going to ask you to assume without asking you to accept
them, on various matters. Then my second set of
questions will be about the role of the general counsel.
Firstly, I'd ask you to assume that, in between
Board meetings, Ms Vennells and Ms Perkins were in
regular contact about the matters covered in your second
report. My question is: on the assumption that that is
correct, that they were in regular discussions about
Second Sight Report and the prosecution case review,
would that, in principle, have assisted Ms Perkins as
Chairman to determine what issues should come before the
Board?
DAME SANDRA: As I understand the question, if we assume
they were in regular contact, would we assume that that
would mean that Ms Perkins was appraised of matters to
been before the Board; was that the question?
MR CASEY: Well, the question is slightly more general than
that, that on the assumption that they were in regular
contact between Board meetings, would that contact have
assisted Ms Perkins in deciding what issues should come
before the Board for discussion?
DAME SANDRA: I imagine it would.
MR CASEY: The next assumption I want to put to you is this:
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whilst Second Sight were working on the postmaster cases
between 2012 and the publication of their report in July
2013, there was a core team from Post Office who were
liaising with Second Sight. I want you to assume that
that core team consisted of, firstly, a Senior IT
Manager: secondly, a Manager from the Accounting
Department of Post Office, which dealt with postmaster
complaints and disputes; thirdly, a Senior Manager from
Network which liaised with the Branch Network; and,
fourthly, Susan Crichton, the General Counsel.
Now, you spoke yesterday of the importance of
sharing knowledge horizontally across the business and
my question is: on those assumed facts, would that be
an example of knowledge being shared horizontally in
relation to the issues covered in your second report?
DAME SANDRA: If it were to exist it would be an example
that there was a structure in which it was possible to
share information. Whether or not that information was
actually shared, I can't say.
MR CASEY: Yes, I'm not asking you to assume that.
DAME SANDRA: There is a structure there, apparently.
MR CASEY: Yes. So my next related assumption is that that
same team considered the Second Sight Interim Report
when it was published in July 2013, and that the
information that was presented to the Executive and the
81
It says:
"The General Counsel is responsible for managing the
Company Secretariat, Internal Audit, Legal, Risk and
Compliance and Security Teams."
Then in the second paragraph, it says:
"The Legal Team of 12 are responsibility for
managing all aspects of legal risk, identifying and
solving strategic and operational legal issues, and
providing understandable, accurate and timely advice to
the business on a very wide-ranging and changing set of
complex issues, which are frequently novel and to short
deadlines."
Now, you've said today that you haven't looked into
the regulatory rules by which general counsel must
operate.
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
MR CASEY: I take it you've also not looked into the
question of the legal duties that they will owe to Post
Office as their client.
DAME SANDRA: We're -- no, you're -- I have to not looked in
detail at the role of the general counsel in this
regard. That's right. I should say that the first
paragraph is, of course, this is the Post Office's
construction of the role of the general counsel.
MR CASEY: Yes.
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Board about the Second Sight Interim Report, was derived
from the work product of that team. So the question is
again: would that be an example of a structure where
knowledge was to be shared horizontally?
DAME SANDRA: But I don't believe we saw any evidence of
that.
MR CASEY: I'm not asking you whether you source code any
evidence of it; I'm asking you to assume that that was
the team who, on behalf of Post Office, considered the
merits of the Second Sight Interim Report.
DAME SANDRA: If you're saying to me: if it were to have
been considered by people from different functions,
would that have been example of multi-functional
consideration --
MR CASEY: Yes.
DAME SANDRA: -- well, self-evidently it would.
MR CASEY: Thank you very much. I want to move on to the
role of the General Counsel, please, and could we bring
up WITN10010101. Is this a document you have seen?
DAME SANDRA: Is this the 2015 document?
MR CASEY: Yes.
DAME SANDRA: Yes, I have.
MR CASEY: Now, if we go over to the second page of this
document, the first two paragraphs contain a summary of
the role and responsibilities of the General Counsel.
82
DAME SANDRA: Yes.
MR CASEY: What I'd just like to ask you about, though, are
the expectations that the Board would have of what.
a General Counsel would bring to them. So, just looking
at that second paragraph, it identifies three functions.
The first of those is responsibility for managing all
aspects of legal risk. Do you agree it would be
an expectation of the POL Board that the General Counsel
would collate legal risks to them?
DAME SANDRA: Yes, nothing can abrogate the responsibility
of the chief executive for overall responsibility. One
can define the responsibility of the director of
marketing, the director of strategy, the finance
director, unless he or she is a member of the board, and
the general counsel, one can define their
responsibilities but that responsibility is held within
an executive team, and the chief executive is the
responsible person for that executive team. I don't
know if that's relevant to your question but it seemed
relevant to me.
MR CASEY: Thank you. My question is: would you agree that
a Board of POL would have an expectation that the
General Counsel would alert them to legal risks?
DAME SANDRA: Absolutely.
MR CASEY: Mr Aujard, who was one of the General Counsel
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during Ms Vennelis' tenure, agreed with a proposition
during his oral evidence that a general counsel should
be proactive in identifying legal risks to the business;
do you agree with that?
DAME SANDRA: Indeed I do. I agree that, above all, all the
executive directors, and some with special
responsibility, should be proactive, creative, do their
job. I completely agree with that.
MR CASEY: Would you agree that the reason for proactivity
in identifying legal risks is that the GC may be aware,
by nature of their profession, of risks of which a lay
board and a lay executive may well be unaware?
DAME SANDRA: I'm sorry, I didn't catch that.
MR CASEY: Would you agree that the reason why a GC needs to
be proactive in alerting the business to legal risks
that -- and my emphasis is on legal -- is that the GC
may well be aware, because of their profession, of risks
of which a non-lawyer may be unaware?
DAME SANDRA: Indeed.
MR CASEY: Now, the second role identified in this document
of the GC is solving strategic and operational legal
issues. Again, do you agree a board would have
an expectation that that is something that a GC would
do?
DAME SANDRA: As I say, within the overall structure of what
85
DAME SANDRA: The assumption would be that an executive
director, a member of a senior team, was performing
their role appropriately, and that, if they weren't, it
would be picked up through performance management
matters.
MR CASEY: If a board received a paper from the GC, from
which it was clear that the GC had received external
advice and was providing a summary of that external
advice in their paper to the board, wouldn't the
assumption of the board be that that paper contained
what they needed to know?
DAME SANDRA: That would be a reasonable assumption.
MR CASEY: Thank you very much, I've no more questions.
DAME SANDRA: Maybe I -- since there is that document which
you have kindly brought to our attention, maybe we could
have it once more up? It did strike us, when we looked
at it, there didn't seem to be any mention of
prosecutions.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Is your point, Dame Sandra, that, in
relation to something as potentially life changing for
the people involved as being prosecuted, there ought to
be some mention of it?
DAME SANDRA: Particularly as this is 2015. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes.
DAME SANDRA: Thank you.
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an executive team is, with the chief executive being
ultimately responsible, I completely agree with this
statement --
MR CASEY: And --
DAME SANDRA: -- because it's their statement. I think it's
very important to know that this is what POL determined
in 2015 that they wanted of their General Counsel and it
would be reasonable for the Board to believe that what
they wanted would be what they got.
MR CASEY: Obviously a general counsel may have spent their
professional life in one particular area of the law. Do
you think that a general counsel should, if an issue
crops up that they are not familiar with, engage
external counsel to assist them?
DAME SANDRA: I do.
MR CASEY: Then the third role of the General Counsel set
out here is to provide understandable, accurate and
timely advice to the business. Can you agree that that
would be an --
DAME SANDRA: I do.
MR CASEY: = -- would be an expectation?
Do you agree a board would have an expectation that
a GC who was performing these roles, unless they knew
something to the contrary, would be performing them
competently?
86
MR BEER: I don't think we know the precise date in 2015.
and, therefore, I don't think we know whether it pre or
post-dated the Post Office's decision, effectively, to
cease prosecution activities.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, no doubt, when you and I reflect
upon it, Mr Beer, if we think it important, we will send
an appropriate notice to the Post Office asking them to
provide the date.
MR BEER: I think we can probably narrow it down from other
evidence because, in fact, this is a job spec. Itis
essentially the job specification for a new General
Counsel, and so I think --
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So that I can put this in context, it's
the job specification to which Ms MacLeod ultimately
responded and got the job?
MR BEER; I believe that to be the case.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Fine okay.
MR BEER: Sir, I haven't any questions arising. Do you?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: No, thank you.
So, Dame Sandra and Dr Steward, I'm extremely
grateful to you both. Anyone just looking at your
written evidence will know that you must have put in
a huge effort to produce it in the timescales you were
asked to, so I'm extremely grateful to you, and I'm
extremely grateful for your oral answers over the course
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of yesterday and this morning. So thank you very much.
We still have about five minutes to go, I suspect,
with various announcements, so I'm very happy for you to
skedaddle, so to speak, or you can sit there and listen
for five minutes.
DAME SANDRA: We'll stay.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: You'll stay. You remind me of the jurors
who like to stay even for the sentencing process.
Right.
All right then, Mr Beer, over to you.
Statement by MR BEER
MR BEER: Sir, that is presently all of the oral evidence
that we intend to call before you in the Inquiry.
As I have explained previously, at the end of some
of the previous phases, to ensure that the Inquiry has
obtained as full a picture of the issues as possible,
Rule 9 requests were sent to a very wide pool of
individuals, a wider pool than those who have ultimately
been called before you to give their oral evidence.
Where the Inquiry has decided that it is not
necessary to hear oral evidence from such individuals,
their statements will be admitted into evidence and
treated as having been read into the record. Their
witness statements will be shortly disclosed to the
public on the Inquiry's website.
89
Human Impact statements or supplemental Human Impact
statements.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, of course, Mr Beer.
MR BEER: Thank you, slide 3, please. In Phase 3 can we
read into the record the statements of Alison Clark;
John Courtley; Paul Gardner; Russell Hancock; Davyd
Nash; Jane Smith; and Philippa Wright.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes.
MR BEER: Next slide please. Phase 4, can we read into the
record, please, Malcolm Macleod's witness statement.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes.
MR BEER: Phases 5 and 6, there's a lot of these: Alan
Barrie; Simon Baker; Peter Batten; Sir Donald Brydon;
David Cavender KC; Catherine Churchard; Jeremy Cope;
Peter Corbett; David Courtley.
Over the page: Gareth Davies; Dr Naranker Dulay;
Douglas Evans; Richard Francis; Andy Furey; Robert
Gilbert; William Hayes.
Over the page, please: Darren Heilig; Jane Hill;
Jonathan Hill; Andy Holt; Gareth James; Sir Sajid Javid;
The Right Honourable Alan Johnson.
Over the page, please: Professor Jeffrey Kramer: Sir
Norman Lamb; John Lloyd; Baroness Neville-Rolfe, her
second statement; The Right Honourable Lord Peter
Mandelson; Alasdair Marnoch; Tony Marsh, that's his
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I should say that the fact that the statements are
to be read into the record does not mean that the
accounts given within them are necessarily agreed by
each or any of the Core Participants. That evidence is
necessarily untested by examination in this room.
So, sir, I'm going to read into the record, if
I may, a series of witness statements made across the
phases. Can we have, please, on the screen INQ00002029,
the PowerPoint presentation.
Thank you. Essentially, sir, this identifies in
each slide that I'm going to present the statements and
their URNs that are to be read into the record.
Rather than me either reading the URNs out, less
still reading the witness statements out, as is
sometimes done in other contexts, I'm going to read in
the statements across Phases 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, and
that reflects the fact that, even though the previous
phases have closed, the Inquiry has continued to seek
evidence about relevant matters, or has been provided
without conditioning for such evidence.
Can we look at slide 2, please. May we treat as
read into the record, please, the witness statements of
David Farry; Julie Kay, that's Mrs Wolstenholme; Siema
Kamran; John Kenneth Macaldowie; Tracy Ann Merrit; and
Robert Thompson, with those URNs. They are essentially
90
second statement.
Over the page: Tim McCormack; Arthur Owen (Les
Owen); Laura Thompson; Sophie Underwood; Mark Underwood;
Dave Ward; Tom Wechsler; Michael Whitehead. In Phase 5
and 6, please.
Can we move to Phase 7, please. May we read into
the record the statements of: Sarah Bell; Thomas Cooper,
that's his second statement; Sir Ross Cranston; Carl
Creswell, his third statement; Andrew Darfoor; Brian
Gaunt; Sarah Gray; Calum Greenhow, a second statement;
Lisa Harrington; Sir Gary Hickinbottom; Professor
Christopher Hodges: Simon Jeffreys.
Over the page please: Christopher Leach; Dan
O'Mahoney; Zarin Patel; Martin Roberts; Rachel
Scarrabelotti, her seventh statement; Carla Stent;
Richard Taylor; Rod Williams, a second statement; Owen
Woodley; and Paul Wood. As read into the record,
please.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes.
MR BEER: Thank you very much. I should say that, after
today, the Inquiry will continue to seek evidence in
pursuit of its investigation and in discharge of its
Terms of Reference. Any statements that we obtain will
be disclosed to Core Participants and uploaded to the
Inquiry's website.
92
(23) Pages 89 - 92
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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Finally, sir, you know that we resume for oral
closing submissions from the Core Participants but not
from your counsel, over two days on 16 and 17 December
this year.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes.
MR BEER: Thank you, sir.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: "In relation to what I might call
statements which will arrive from now onwards, some, if
not all of those, may also, in due course, become
evidence in the Inquiry but I don't presume to convene
a hearing simply so that Mr Beer can say to me "Will you
read these into the record?"
It will be read into the record by my accepting them
as evidence and Core Participants will be notified when
that occurs.
MR BEER: Yes, they will be sent out to Core Participants
with a note to that effect, uploaded to the website.
For those that come in between now and 16 December, if
you'll permit me, I might do what I've just done now, on
the morning of 16 December.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes.
MR BEER: We anticipate a smattering of statements between
now and then.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, fine.
MRBEER: Thank you very much, sir.
93
Statement by SIR WYN WILLIAMS.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, then I suppose, as they say in
court, the judge gets the last word. So what do I want
to say at this stage?
Well, firstly, I want to say that I am extremely
grateful to everyone who has helped to make this phase
run as smoothly as every other phase has done. That is
a remarkable achievement, in my opinion, because it
means that every phase of this Inquiry has operated as
it should have done and, for that, I can only express my
considerable thanks, firstly to my magnificent team, in
all its aspects, which goes from lawyers, on the one
hand, to the lady who uploads the documents onto the
screen, and the lady who transcribes, on the other, and
everybody in between.
I'd like to thank all Core Participants for the help
they have afforded to me during all these phases.
Without your assistance, it could not have happened in
the way that it has happened.
I'd like to pay a special tribute to everybody whose
has attended this Inquiry over, now, about three years,
for their exemplary behaviour. Some of the evidence
that we have heard, not unnaturally, has caused a degree
of tension in the room, should I say, yet, despite that,
people have kept themselves well under control, and have
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SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, thank you, Mr Beer.
MRHENRY: Can I just mention one thing, please, arising
from that, and I do apologise, perhaps I should have
actually dealt with this administratively.
In view of the volume of extra statements and
appreciating that you, sir, will have to read the
closing submissions before the oral submissions are
made, I was wondering if I could ask for a very modest
extension from Friday, 6 to Monday, 9 December for the
submission of the written submissions?
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: You mean you want to deprive me of the
opportunity of using my weekend to read your statement,
Mr Henry?
MR HENRY: I'm afraid so, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, I think I'll graciously accede to
that.
MR HENRY: = Thank you.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I think, let's be formal now about it.
I will say, unless Mr Beer wants to contradict me,
that the time for providing the written closing
statement is now extended to 2.00 pm on the Monday that
follows Friday, the 6th.
MR BEER: Thank you, sir.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I Is that it?
MR BEER: It is from me, sir.
94
treated the Inquiry with the respect it deserves.
I say "the Inquiry" because often, I've just been
a figure on a screen but that has not led to anybody
misbehaving. So for that, I'm extremely grateful.
I want to say one thing about the closing
submissions. We've invited those writing the closing
submissions for the 16th and 17th to confine themselves
to 100 pages. There is one exception to that, which
I want to explain publicly so that there is no
misunderstanding about it.
Mr Gareth Jenkins' representatives have asked to be
allowed to write a longer closing statement. I have
acceded to that request because you may recall that
Mr Jenkins's attempts to give evidence were thwarted for
various reasons over the course of the Inquiry and so
his representatives were deprived of the opportunity of
making closing submissions at the end of particular
phases.
So I have thought it appropriate to permit them to
make a longer statement because everybody else has had
the opportunity to make statements as we are going
along. So that's the reason for it, if anybody says,
"Why have they got 140 pages and we've got 100?" They
all add up to roughly the same when you put them
together.
96
(24) Pages 93 - 96
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Then I have two announcements to make about
publications. Well, it's one announcement, really, but
about two different issues.
I have had to determine an issue raised by the Post
Office about the reports which they supplied to the
Inquiry from a barrister named Jonathan Laidlaw KC.
That determination will appear on the website shortly
after we stop this afternoon now. I have decided to do
it in that way, not read it out, because it is
essentially a legal document and it is much better to be
read and digested rather than me sound off and drone
away here for ten minutes. So that will appear shortly.
In the same document, I will invite those who are
making written closing submissions to address a specific
topic which I will call post-conviction disclosure.
Again, it's number of paragraphs which deal with that
issue, and I don't seek to the summarise what I will say
in the document but, again, it will be a request by me
that, in closing submissions, that issue is dealt with
in the way that I describe in the document.
So with those words and my repeat of the thanks to
everyone, I bring this session to an end. I will see
you all on the 16th and 17th and, unless I am persuaded
‘otherwise, I won't see you again before I produce
a report.
97
INDEX
DAME SANDRA JUNE NOBLE DAWSON (continued)
DR KATY MARY STEWARD (continued) .....
Questioned by MR HENRY .. 2
Questioned by MR STEIN .. 23
Questioned by MR MOLONEY .... 51
Questioned by MS WATT ..... 71
Questioned by MR CASEY .... 79
Statement by MR BEER ..... 89
Statement by SIR WYN WILLIAMS .... 95
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But I'l see you on the 16th and 17th. So thank you
all very much.
MR BEER: Thank you, sir.
(12.23 pm)
(The hearing adjourned until Monday, 16 December 2024)
98
(25) Pages 97 - 99
DAME SANDRA:
[193]
DR STEWARD: [17]
7/18 8/1 12/24 13/4
22/11 31/19 40/20
43/12 47/6 48/11 50/4
54/13 55/14 69/25
70/22 73/7 73/16
MR BEER: [23] 1/15
2M 2/4 2/7 2/20 51/9
51/15 88/1 88/9 88/16
88/18 89/12 91/4 91/9
91/12 92/20 93/6
93/16 93/22 93/25
94/23 94/25 98/3
MR CASEY: [26]
79/17 79/20 79/24
80/19 80/25 81/20
81/22 82/7 82/15
82/17 82/21 82/23
83/17 83/25 84/2
84/21 84/25 85/9
85/14 85/20 86/4
86/10 86/16 86/21
87/6 87/13
MR HENRY: [41]
2/22 3/2 3/14 4/12
4/19 4/24 5/9 5/17 6/5
6/8 6/19 7/1 7/24 8/6
14/4 11/12 13/7 13/12]
1416 14/11 14/17
14/19 14/22 17/13
17/15 17/23 18/4 18/6I
19/8 19/20 20/4 20/19}
21/3 21/10 21/13 22/7
22/20 23/1 94/2 94/14
94/17
MR MOLONEY: [50]
51/18 51/23 53/16
54/1 54/19 55/15
55/20 55/23 56/1
56/12 56/18 56/20
57/5 57/14 58/20
58/23 59/1 59/16
59/23 60/2 60/5 60/8
61/1 62/8 62/14 62/20
63/4 63/10 63/13
63/18 64/4 64/9 64/11
64/15 64/25 65/5
65/25 66/8 66/11
66/20 66/23 67/8
67/12 68/12 68/17
68/20 69/6 69/16
70/12 70/23
MR STEIN: [68] 23/7
23/18 23/21 24/5
24/13 25/10 25/12
25/15 26/1 26/3 26/8
26/16 27/8 27/16
27/20 27/24 28/5
28/20 29/1 29/13 30/3
30/10 30/14 31/16
31/22 32/10 32/17
32/23 33/2 33/7 33/15
33/20 33/22 34/3
34/10 34/17 35/4 35/8)
35/12 35/15 35/21
36/13 37/1 37/5 37/10
37/16 37/18 37/21
38/14 39/1 40/8 40/21
41/5 41/8 41/14 41/19
44/8 45/8 45/21 46/6
47/22 49/10 49/12
49/14 49/16 50/3 50/9
51/10
MS WATT: [11] 71/2
71/7 73/13 73/20
74/10 74/15 74/25
75/9 78/3 78/9 79/15
SIR WYN WILLIAMS:
[53] 1/5 1/21 2/2 2/5
2/16 5/15 15/4 15/10
15/23 16/5 16/11
16/14 17/7 17/12
17/14 22/23 23/4 35/9)
35/14 35/17 50/10
50/18 50/24 51/3 51/5)
51/11 51/20 70/24
71/4 79/16 79/18
79/21 87/19 87/24
88/5 88/13 88/17
88/19 89/7 91/3 91/8
91/11 92/19 93/5 93/7,
93/21 93/24 94/1
94/11 94/15 94/18
94/24 95/2
‘90s [3] 63/2 63/6
63/8
‘now’ [4] 13/22
4
1.34 billion [2] 24/21
24/22
10 September [1]
13/17
10 years [1] 53/12
10,000 [1] 55/6
10.15 [1] 22/22
10.55 [1] 51/12
100 [1] 96/23
100 pages [1] 96/8
106 [2] 5/10 5/13
11 September [1]
13/13
11.10 [4] 51/9
41.14 [4] 51/14
12 [1] 83/6
12 December [1] 7/3
12.23 [1] 98/4
12.30 [1] 2/15
121s [1] 21/15
129 [4] 17/23
13 November 2024
[1] 1/4
133 [1] 17/23
140 [2] 39/4 39/5
140 pages [1] 96/23
145 [1] 39/17
15 [2] 2/13 66/25
15 October [1] 7/19
16 [3] 6/23 93/3
93/20
16 December [2]
93/18 98/5
16th [3] 96/7 97/23
98/1
17 [1] 93/3
17th [3] 96/7 97/23
98/1
1995 [2] 26/18 27/2
1996 [2] 41/11 42/23
2
2.00 [1] 94/21
20 August [1] 9/23
20 per cent [1] 32/6
20-year [1] 60/13
2000 [1] 41/10
2010 [3] 57/2 57/4
57/7
2012 [1] 81/2
2013 [14] 7/7 7/20
8/14 9/18 9/23 9/24
11/3 13/17 24/15
29/19 55/10 60/22
81/3 81/24
2014 [2] 12/24 12/25
2015 [6] 31/10 41/16
82/20 86/7 87/23 88/1
2018 [3] 21/12 21/13
66/11
2020 [4] 7/3 64/10
64/11 65/19
2023 [1] 65/19
2024 [2] 1/1 98/5
21.25 [1] 9/24
27 August [2] 8/14
11/21
29 August [3] 9/18
11/2 11/22
3
3 September [4] 9/24
11/16 11/19 11/24
30 [2] 2/13 2/14
30 August [1] 11/23
31 [1] 5/16
350 [1] 62/6
4
40 [2] 39/2 39/5
41 [4] 39/17
45 [2] 2/9 2/10
So
527 [1] 41/20
6
6,500 [1] 71/12
6th [1] 94/22
To
7.51 [1] 11/17
8,500 [1] 71/12
88 [1] 30/10
9 December [1] 94/9
9 September [2]
10/11 10/24
9.00 [1] 11/19
9.35 [1] 1/2
95 [5] 25/20 25/20
26/1 26/2 26/3
A
ability [2] 44/19 47/3
able [14] 1/10 7/13
30/19 36/25 43/18
43/23 43/24 44/20
46/9 47/4 53/22 69/8
69/17 74/21
about [96] 1/5 7/11
7/24 9/19 11/17 11/24,
14/23 15/23 16/16
16/19 19/5 19/16
19/23 20/1 21/2 24/14)
25/17 25/22 26/19
30/18 30/19 31/8 32/6
32/12 32/15 34/14
37/25 39/6 39/13
40/15 41/6 41/12
42/19 43/16 43/23
44/2 44/3 45/8 45/16
45/23 46/15 47/11
51/24 52/11 54/24
55/16 55/20 56/2 56/3)
58/13 58/13 58/14
58/16 58/17 59/5 59/9
59/16 60/19 60/24
61/3 61/4 61/9 61/13
61/21 62/15 62/20
62/22 62/25 63/1 66/6
66/15 67/6 67/24
69/21 75/14 75/17
75/25 76/13 76/22
76/25 78/9 79/7 80/5
80/8 80/10 82/1 84/2
89/2 90/19 94/18
95/21 96/5 96/10 97/1
97/3 97/5
above [4] 45/18 73/3
78/22 85/5
abroad [1] 34/5
abrogate [1] 84/10
absolute [1] 53/17
absolutely [8] 4/24
6/19 18/4 18/18 38/23
45/14 66/8 84/24
accede [1] 94/15
acceded [1] 96/13
accept [2] 76/6 80/3
acceptable [2] 3/6
4/5
acceptance [1] 64/2
accepted [1] 6/5
accepting [1] 93/13
access [1] 36/25
according [1] 79/5
Accordingly [1]
46/18
account [5] 39/22
45/25 58/11 66/18
67/1
accountability [9]
15/1 19/22 26/13
46/19 57/11 58/7 60/9)
76/1 76/20
Accounting [1] 81/6
accounts [1] 90/3
accurate [2] 83/9
86/17
achieve [1] 24/19
acl ement [1] 95/8)
achieving [1] 75/1
acid [1] 70/15
acquiescence [1] 5/4
across [10] 33/16
55/7 56/15 71/12
71/22 73/22 75/11
81/12 90/7 90/16
act [3] 4/1 41/11 43/1
acting [1] 19/10
action [2] 4/16 78/21
activities [4] 34/20
34/23 37/7 88/4
actual [4] 16/16
16/19 17/4 31/24
actually [17] 1/12
12/19 17/18 23/1 30/5}
32/6 33/10 33/24
35/13 36/1 36/2 42/10)
48/4 48/6 63/15 81/19)
94/4
adaptation [1] 78/3
add [6] 7/17 12/3
31/15 54/12 73/6
96/24
address [1] 97/14
addressed [1] 72/15
addressing [3] 34/21
46/6 72/16
adducing [1] 4/18
adequately [1] 57/16
adjourned [1] 98/5
adjudication [3] 8/19
10/2 12/9
administration [1]
58/9
administratively [1]
94/4
admitted [1] 89/22
(26) DAME SANDRA: - admitted
A
adopt [1] 27/7
adopted [2] 69/1 78/4)
advantage [1] 74/7
advice [17] 7/19 8/2
10/8 10/10 12/15
16/17 18/21 34/21
36/6 36/15 37/12
65/24 66/17 83/9
86/18 87/8 87/9
advices [3] 37/2 37/3
37/5
advise [2] 12/12 13/9
afflicts [1] 1/18
afforded [1] 95/17
afraid [4] 5/10 11/3
27/5 94/14
after [6] 10/14 46/23
55/5 56/25 92/20 97/8
afternoon [2] 71/7
97/8
again [12] 15/18 24/2
28/13 46/17 61/25
64/25 78/17 82/3
85/22 97/16 97/18
97/24
against [6] 4/23
23/24 42/21 43/16
64/20 65/2
aggrieved [1] 42/16
ago [1] 53/12
agree [31] 3/11 3/12
4/8 4/9 19/8 23/19
25/5 28/11 30/3 33/3
37/16 40/17 40/18
40/19 40/21 73/7
74/10 74/15 79/9
79/14 84/7 84/21 85/4
85/5 85/8 85/9 85/14
85/22 86/2 86/18
86/22
agreed [8] 10/9 10/11
10/24 12/13 16/1 16/8)
85/1 90/3
agreement [2] 5/19
77123
aim [1] 75/14
aims [2] 75/20 75/23
Alan [3] 17/19 91/12
91/21
alarm [3] 2/4 2/5 14/5
Alasdair [1] 91/25
alert [1] 84/23
alerting [1] 85/15
Alex [2] 75/9 75/17
Alice [4] 6/2 6/13 8/9
12/6
Alison [1] 91/5
all [36] 1/8 1/21 21/3
26/11 30/15 30/18
33/12 33/12 33/13
34/17 35/10 38/4
45/18 47/7 48/20
51/22 59/22 64/7
70/23 72/6 73/3 76/20)
78/17 83/7 84/6 85/5
85/5 89/10 89/12 93/9
95/12 95/16 95/17
96/24 97/23 98/2
allowed [2] 6/22
96/12
almost [3] 24/21
27/24 50/13
along [3] 2/2 25/2
96/22
already [2] 54/2
61/13
also [23] 1/18 1/23
9/3 14/22 18/17 19/1
20/23 21/1 23/9 24/19
24/25 35/25 37/25
40/5 40/9 42/2 47/2
48/4 54/4 65/15 79/6
83/17 93/9
although [3] 9/12
19/17 42/22
Altman [17] 5/18 6/8
7/5 7/6 7/6 7/8 7/19
8/21 9/25 10/8 12/12
13/8 13/15 14/1 14/3
15/2 16/18
Altman's [3] 7/7
10/15 15/7
altruism [1] 3/5
always [2] 45/4 60/19]
am [9] 1/2 8/20 34/2
51/12 51/14 55/22
77/6 95/5 97/23
amalgam [1] 22/6
amaze [1] 51/11
ambition [2] 12/6
22/15
amnesia [1] 55/21
amongst [1] 10/16
amount [2] 24/13
25/8
amour [1] 20/20
Andrew [1] 92/9
Andy [3] 13/25 91/17
91/20
Ann [1] 90/24
announced [1] 1/15
announcement [1]
97/2
announcements [2]
89/3 97/1
annoyance [2] 20/24
78/25
annoyed [1] 21/1
annual [2] 60/18 66/6
annually [1] 53/6
anonymously [1]
61/22
another [5] 4/5 22/5
37/25 44/11 53/4
answer [15] 4/20
10/20 10/22 11/3
28/25 30/5 31/4 31/7
33/8 33/22 39/13 48/6
49/4 49/14 49/21
answered [2] 8/15
30/23
answering [1] 49/25
answers [1] 88/25
anticipate [1] 93/22
any [27] 2/18 2/25
10/13 11/11 12/19
18/19 22/10 35/2
36/15 37/10 42/19
47/2 52/15 57/14 61/6
61/8 63/13 65/8 65/15)
67/14 69/23 82/5 82/7
87/17 88/18 90/4
92/23
anybody [5] 5/15
41/19 57/15 96/3
96/22
anyone [2] 42/23
88/21
anything [7] 1/12
TINT 44124 47/13
54/12 74/5 76/14
anyway [2] 35/6
69/19
apologise [1] 94/3
apparent [1] 72/16
apparently [4] 7/6
55/5 60/4 81/21
appeal [1] 40/4
appear [9] 6/20 9/12
11/1 14/15 14/20
64/20 79/4 97/7 97/12
appeared [1] 55/5
appears [6] 7/25 39/7I
39/14 39/15 59/12
65/3
appended [1] 27/14
applicability [1] 48/1
applicable [2] 26/19
34/6
application [1] 49/17
applied [7] 25/23
26/21 26/24 26/25
28/9 28/22 49/24
apply [18] 26/16
26/18 27/11 27/14
28/3 28/11 35/3 35/4
35/6 46/11 48/8 49/2
49/6 49/8 49/21 50/13
51/1 51/2
appointed [4] 27/1
34/3 59/17 77/15
appointment [10]
12/14 12/19 19/4 30/8}
32/14 56/23 61/3 61/9
66/6 69/19
appointments [7]
29/21 29/23 29/24
60/6 64/19 65/1 67/14
appraisal [1] 61/8
appraised [1] 80/17
appreciate [2] 75/10
78/17
appreciating [1] 94/6
apprise [1] 8/10
approach [6] 20/8
21/18 60/9 68/2 68/21
69/1
appropriate [3] 15/16
88/7 96/19
appropriately [2]
77/4 87/3
approval [2] 15/11
25/8
approved [3] 15/22
29/22 30/1
ARC [4] 7/14 7/20 8/3)
14/7
are [105]
area [4] 34/8 35/2
35/18 86/11
aren't [1] 59/24
arguably [1] 49/19
argue [2] 50/25 51/1
argument [1] 7/2
arise [1] 79/8
arising [4] 10/21 11/4
88/18 94/2
arm [2] 28/7 38/22
arm's [3] 32/10 32/12
38/21
arm's-length [2]
32/12 38/21
around [6] 11/19
24/15 24/18 30/4
58/20 67/6
arrange [1] 21/15
arrangements [3]
42/1 45/4 77/11
arrive [1] 93/8
arrogating [1] 2/24
Arthur [1] 92/2
as [161]
aside [2] 3/23 60/10
ask [29] 7/11 8/12
9/22 9/24 10/20 11/14,
12/18 13/12 16/16
35/7 50/11 51/24
52/11 56/2 59/16
62/24 70/23 71/10
71/14 75/21 75/25
76/6 79/6 79/24 80/1
80/3 80/6 84/2 94/8
asked [11] 21/2 33/7
39/6 54/23 56/3 60/19)
60/21 61/21 62/22
88/24 96/11
asking [11] 25/7
25/22 37/15 45/6
45/24 61/2 80/3 81/20)
82/7 82/8 88/7
aspect [2] 46/16
51/25
aspects [6] 41/5 64/3
73/2 83/7 84/7 95/12
assessment [4]
68/12 69/16 69/20
70/18
assist [2] 30/25
86/14
assistance [2] 10/13
95/18
assisted [2] 80/12
80/22
assume [7] 80/3 80/6
80/15 80/16 81/4
81/20 82/8
assumed [2] 80/2
81/13
assuming [2] 14/11
70/14
assumption [8] 8/8
80/9 80/20 80/25
81/22 87/1 87/10
87/12
assumptions [2]
20/17 39/19
assurance [1] 47/16
at [123]
attacks [1] 25/2
attempt [1] 43/4
attempts [1] 96/14
attend [1] 31/25
attendance [1] 32/8
attended [1] 95/21
attending [1] 18/23
attention [11] 5/23
6/16 6/18 6/21 30/7
36/5 36/9 43/3 48/15
55/4 87/15
attitudes [2] 72/4
72/9
attractive [2] 59/24
60/2
audit [10] 13/21
13/23 14/12 14/24
15/12 15/15 41/22
46/21 46/22 83/3
audits [2] 40/10
40/10
August [8] 8/14 8/21
9/18 9/23 11/2 11/21
11/22 11/23
Aujard [2] 7/20 84/25
authority [5] 9/1 38/7
59/11 77/12 77/18
available [3] 1/19
30/17 30/20
aware [12] 7/10
13/24 15/20 24/13
34/17 34/23 38/17
40/2 55/15 63/22
85/10 85/17
awareness [1] 46/24
away [3] 17/13 78/1
97/12
Bo
B3.3 [1] 71/25
(27) adopt - B3.3
B
back [12] 17/14 25/6
25/12 41/9 44/9 44/21
48/11 50/11 62/23
64/15 73/21 78/12
background [1]
44/24
bad [2] 29/17 48/3
Badenoch [1] 27/20
Baker [1] 91/13
balance [2] 18/25
19/5
Bar [1] 33/25
Baroness [1] 91/23
Barrie [1] 91/13
barrier [1] 37/19
barrister [2] 34/14
97/6
barristers [1] 34/18
base [1] 19/9
based [3] 63/16
72/20 80/2
basic [3] 20/17 26/12
26/14
basis [3] 14/11 67/25
69/10
bat [1] 5/2
Batten [1] 91/13
be [198]
bear [1] 22/2
became [1] 28/6
because [38] 3/18
4/1 4/18 6/1 8/8 11/6
13/15 18/6 21/21
22/20 27/8 28/16
28/25 29/24 32/21
40/1 42/5 44/6 45/9
53/4 53/23 58/6 61/2
61/10 62/24 64/11
65/5 69/6 74/1 74/3
85/17 86/5 88/10 95/8
96/2 96/13 96/20 97/9
become [3] 54/15
74/3 93/9
becomes [1] 27/17
been [61] 1/15 1/20
1/22 3/19 5/21 7/10
7/25 10/5 11/21 13/2
14/14 15/14 15/16
16/8 16/20 16/23 19/9}
19/24 20/15 20/16
30/14 30/18 30/19
30/19 33/14 36/14
36/20 36/23 36/25
37/5 37/10 37/19
39/12 41/8 42/22 43/4
44/13 45/4 47/23
51/20 55/3 56/24
57/14 59/4 59/12
60/21 62/5 63/21
63/23 64/12 65/19
67/18 73/20 73/21
80/18 82/12 82/13
89/19 89/23 90/19
96/2
Beer [13] 1/5 33/7
35/22 51/6 56/3 88/6
89/10 89/11 91/3
93/11 94/1 94/19
99/16
before [19] 10/22
11/17 11/24 14/16
15/12 15/19 37/24
46/6 48/12 57/10 64/7
78/23 80/13 80/18
80/23 89/13 89/19
94/7 97/24
beg [1] 33/18
began [1] 61/9
beggar [1] 55/24
begin [1] 77/10
beginning [5] 21/13
60/15 62/16 66/14
74/14
begins [2] 10/23
65/23
behalf [5] 2/8 2/9
29/15 79/24 82/9
behave [1] 50/22
behaviour [15] 23/18
23/19 24/2 24/11 25/5
25/9 30/17 40/16
41/15 42/19 49/19
50/14 51/6 72/18
95/22
behaviours [3] 31/9
31/13 49/1
behind [2] 39/15 43/6
being [28] 1/19 6/9
15/24 18/21 19/23
20/20 20/24 28/22
39/12 43/19 43/24
51/4 52/23 55/6 57/18)
59/3 59/10 59/24 60/3
63/7 69/7 69/18 75/2
75/14 76/12 81/14
86/1 87/21
belief [1] 55/24
beliefs [3] 6/6 72/4
72/8
believe [18] 12/21
13/2 15/3 27/1 35/12
37/14 42/14 47/9 59/7,
61/13 63/16 66/2 67/5)
68/23 69/16 82/5 86/8
88/16
Bell [1] 92/7
below [1] 8/16
best [8] 3/8 19/3 22/1
46/19 51/6 68/14
70/18 74/20
better [3] 4/3 49/19
97/10
between [22] 7/4
9/19 18/25 19/5 38/16
41/24 44/1 44/14 56/7
60/23 61/11 69/10
69/15 70/7 70/13
73/11 80/6 80/21 81/2
93/18 93/22 95/15
bias [1] 6/6
billion [2] 24/21
24/22
bit [3] 49/18 62/7
78/12
Blood [1] 47/25
blurring [1] 70/7
board [116]
board's [2] 14/25
43/3
boards [13] 4/10
17/17 17/21 30/16
36/9 36/11 36/14 50/1
57/16 59/25 63/1 68/5)
68/14
bodies [7] 32/12
33/25 37/23 38/21
75/5 78/7 79/11
body [18] 23/13 28/7
28/22 29/5 29/17
32/10 36/2 37/21
37/24 38/4 38/9 38/10)
47/15 48/8 48/9 58/21
58/21 66/2
Bogerd [1] 24/6
bold [1] 10/23
bonding [1] 21/7
book [2] 41/15 43/12
both [11] 18/16 19/7
20/12 36/11 43/2 52/5)
57/15 74/6 74/7 79/20}
88/21
bottom [7] 4/4 26/2
26/3 64/5 64/18 64/23
66/3
boundaries [2] 24/12
70/7
bounds [1] 70/4
Bradshaw [1] 24/7
branch [2] 29/10
81/9
branches [2] 40/11
55/7
brand [1] 76/3
break [3] 2/11 51/7
51/13
Brian [11] 5/18 7/19
8/21 10/8 10/15 12/12
13/8 13/15 14/1 14/3
92/9
brief [2] 56/22 71/14
briefing [1] 46/24
briefly [1] 37/22
bring [5] 22/2 69/12
82/18 84/4 97/22
bringing [2] 18/20
36/5
broad [1] 75/21
brought [8] 5/22 6/15
6/18 19/18 28/16 36/9
55/3 87/15
Brydon [1] 91/13
bugs [5] 20/25 24/17
25/1 54/22 55/1
build [3] 53/19 53/19
75/19
built [1] 52/19
bullet [1] 10/3
bullied [1] 43/20
buried [1] 29/16
business [13] 3/13
29/11 52/7 52/12
57/19 57/20 58/15
58/16 81/12 83/10
85/3 85/15 86/18
but [112]
c
calculating [1] 65/10
call [9] 11/7 16/17
20/14 22/11 39/21
72/1 89/13 93/7 97/15)
called [3] 33/18
33/19 89/19
Calum [1] 92/10
came [2] 31/2 77/19
can [81] 1/8 1/14
41/17 1/21 3/4 5/7 5/7
5/9 6/7 9/23 10/23
11/8 12/18 13/7 13/16
13/19 14/22 15/3 15/4
15/4 16/6 16/16 17/24}
22/12 22/17 23/15
23/15 23/25 24/2
25/15 25/18 25/20
30/10 33/12 34/3
38/22 39/1 42/6 47/7
52/25 53/8 55/23 56/2
58/18 59/16 61/1 62/5)
62/9 64/4 64/5 65/2
67/14 70/17 71/6
72/14 73/1 73/10 74/1
74/2 75/15 76/4 77/4
77/17 79/8 79/20
79/21 84/10 84/12
84/15 86/18 88/9
88/13 89/4 90/8 90/21
91/4 91/9 92/6 93/11
94/2 95/10
can't [13] 11/3 22/8
22/23 27/7 27/15
28/24 36/16 50/23
52/21 53/21 71/3
79/13 81/19
candour [11] 47/22
48/1 48/2 48/8 49/5
49/8 49/21 49/23
49/25 50/4 50/5
candour's [1] 49/17
cannot [5] 4/13 21/19)
24/11 27/5 49/24
capable [1] 33/23
CAPS [2] 8/17 9/10
careers [1] 59/20
careful [1] 40/1
Carl [1] 92/8
Carla [1] 92/15
carried [1] 40/10
carrying [2] 28/22
29/14
case [18] 3/16 6/24
8/19 10/2 10/5 10/19
11/10 12/10 22/12
34/7 35/9 52/9 55/11
55/23 60/8 68/20
80/11 88/16
cases [4] 8/23 8/24
63/22 81/1
Casey [4] 79/16
79/19 79/23 99/14
catch [2] 60/1 85/13
Catherine [1] 91/14
caused [1] 95/23
cautious [1] 45/16
Cavender [1] 91/14
cease [2] 51/11 88/4
cent [1] 32/6
central [1] 59/1
CEO [3] 9/19 13/7
79/25
certain [1] 53/5
certainly [7] 23/20
28/12 31/10 38/24
38/24 41/4 55/8
certificate [1] 34/5
certificates [1] 34/18
chair [11] 2/24 5/5
13/21 15/18 17/1 18/8)
18/14 30/6 35/24 62/2I
T7M5
chairman [4] 62/5
62/5 65/17 80/13
chairmanship [2]
59/18 65/12
challenge [14] 15/25
19/2 19/6 19/19 20/11
20/12 20/13 20/14
20/17 21/22 66/16
75/1 75/24 77/3
challenged [1] 16/3
challenges [1] 20/19
challenging [2] 18/22!
79/3
champions [3] 43/7
44/23 75/6
change [13] 40/24
41/2 41/4 41/5 42/10
72/7 72/11 72/23 73/1
73/4 73/21 74/9 76/14I
changed [1] 72/10
changes [4] 45/23
61/16 72/15 73/7
changing [3] 74/25
83/10 87/20
chart [1] 41/9
Chebib [1] 17/20
check [3] 13/20 14/2
31/18
checking [1] 46/24
(28) back - checking
Cc
checks [2] 60/11
61/4
chief [5] 17/8 52/8
84/11 84/17 86/1
Chisholm [1] 75/9
choice [3] 24/1 25/12
32/16
choices [1] 24/8
choose [1] 67/19
chosen [2] 42/5 58/4
Chris [4] 7/20
Christopher [3]
41/14 92/12 92/13
Churchard [1] 91/14
circle [1] 36/19
circumvent [1] 45/5
cited [4] 17/18
civil [3] 40/6 40/12
40/16
clarity [2] 59/9 59/14
Clark [1] 91/5
Clarke [5] 36/6 36/15
37/3 37/6 37/12
Clarke's [1] 37/5
classic [2] 44/10
46/7
classification [1]
66/5
classified [2] 65/9
65/18
clear [14] 2/23 8/16
9/18 14/22 14/24
27/14 29/5 33/5 33/5
46/2 59/15 60/16 68/6
87/7
clearly [8] 3/10 13/7
15/5 15/6 27/2 40/24
45/2 79/21
Cleveleys [1] 52/9
client [1] 83/19
close [5] 3/2 22/6
22/22 40/11 73/12
closed [1] 90/18
closing [9] 93/2 94/7
94/20 96/5 96/6 96/12
96/17 97/14 97/19
Co [1] 2/10
code [14] 4/10 4/23
34/19 48/22 56/10
63/11 65/21 66/11
66/13 66/13 66/22
66/24 67/3 82/7
codes [5] 30/17
30/21 31/9 43/3 58/11
Cogbill [1] 17/19
coherently [1] 19/18
coin [2] 43/13 43/21
collate [1] 84/9
colleague [1] 69/24
colleagues [1] 37/6
collective [2] 22/15
22/16
collectively [1] 55/12
College [1] 13/1
come [11] 15/19 17/4
18/6 36/18 44/9 47/10
56/15 64/15 80/13
80/22 93/18
comes [4] 24/10
45/10 62/10 74/4
coming [3] 16/1 25/2
32/9
comment [3] 7/13
11/8 15/3
commented [1]
37/22
commercial [3] 26/6
48/14 70/4
commitment [2] 73/4
74/8
committee [20]
13/21 13/23 14/13
15/12 15/15 15/18
15/19 15/21 15/25
16/21 16/24 16/24
16/25 17/2 17/3 75/4
75/22 75/23 76/7
76/23
committees [1]
46/22
commodities [2]
59/24 60/3
commonly [1] 72/18
communication [1]
11/7
companies [3] 33/17
64/22 65/9
company [29] 18/20
19/3 22/1 27/18 29/14
39/21 47/3 50/19
50/21 56/2 56/4 56/8
56/9 56/13 56/23 57/1
57/2 57/7 57/15 58/5
58/8 62/6 65/16 65/17
72/5 72/5 72/6 72/14
83/3
company's [1] 52/1
comparable [2]
65/13 65/16
competently [1]
86/25
complaints [2] 46/9
81/8
complete [1] 71/21
completely [4] 22/4
66/23 85/8 86/2
completing [1] 10/5
complex [7] 25/24
27/8 29/13 38/24
38/25 49/12 83/11
complexity [2] 27/25
29/3
compliance [2] 56/5
83/4
concept [1] 17/16
concern [1] 43/16
concerned [4] 4/18
9/13 19/25 50/1
concerning [2] 9/25
52/16
concluded [1] 15/13
conclusion [2] 22/20
67/8
condition [1] 63/24
conditional [1] 64/2
conditioning [1]
90/20
conduct [3] 30/21
34/19 77/12
conducting [1] 24/15
conducts [2] 30/17
31/9
conference [3] 10/11
10/14 10/24
confidence [3] 75/19
76/10 77/22
confine [1] 96/7
confirm [1] 13/21
conflicts [1] 79/7
confused [1] 66/9
consequences [1]
3/24
consider [1] 45/25
considerable [4]
18/15 23/13 52/13
95/11
consideration [2]
10/16 82/14
considered [5] 11/18
34/8 81/23 82/9 82/12
considering [2]
26/17 36/4
consisted [1] 81/5
consistent [1] 72/22
construction [5]
21/20 22/3 22/4 22/5
83/24
constructions [1]
22/9
constructive [2]
20/12 66/16
consultation [5]
64/12 64/12 65/20
67/2 77/8
consumer [2] 75/6
T7713
contact [4] 80/8
80/16 80/21 80/21
contain [1] 82/24
contained [2] 19/17
87/10
contest [1] 47/6
context [5] 18/1
41/16 50/12 56/9
88/13
contexts [1] 90/15
Continental [1] 76/25
continual [1] 61/7
continue [2] 1/9
92/21
continued [5] 1/3 1/4
90/18 99/2 99/4
continuing [1] 4/24
contours [1] 44/17
contract [4] 27/12
27/15 61/10 61/11
contractors [1] 46/12)
contracts [2] 27/4
28/13
contractual [1] 38/20
contradict [1] 94/19
contrary [1] 86/24
control [3] 20/22
24/11 95/25
controlling [1] 28/7
convene [1] 93/10
conversation [4] 7/4
48/11 62/17 66/14
conveying [1] 14/23
conviction [1] 97/15
convictions [1] 40/4
convinced [2] 30/3
30/5
Cooper [1] 92/7
coordinated [2] 73/3
73/18
Cope [1] 91/14
copied [1] 13/25
copy [2] 5/15 39/3
Corbett [1] 91/15
core [14] 2/8 2/10
2/12 3/16 71/11 72/17,
81/3 81/5 90/4 92/24
93/2 93/14 93/16
95/16
corporate [8] 18/10
26/6 36/7 38/11 41/15
41/21 42/2 76/1
corporation [1] 38/16
correct [8] 3/1 5/8
6/14 6/16 7/18 23/16
63/17 80/10
corrected [1] 30/4
corresponding [1]
50/7
corrosive [3] 39/20
40/25 72/9
costs [1] 12/4
could [44] 8/11 8/14
8/18 9/22 9/24 11/14
12/3 12/8 13/12 13/14}
13/18 15/20 18/11
22/8 22/20 28/14 31/3
34/4 42/23 43/6 45/5
49/2 49/20 50/25 58/3)
63/19 65/4 65/22 66/3
67/4 73/13 73/14 74/6
74/6 74/22 76/7 77/10)
78/3 78/4 78/4 82/18
87/15 94/8 95/18
couldn't [3] 15/19
38/23 58/6
counsel [56] 5/22 6/9
6/15 6/20 9/19 11/4
11/9 17/9 31/11 31/23}
31/25 32/5 32/8 32/9
32/13 32/18 32/25
33/10 33/16 33/19
34/4 34/11 34/12
34/22 34/25 35/5
35/10 35/15 35/19
35/23 36/1 36/5 48/13
56/7 56/11 80/5 81/10
82/18 82/25 83/2
83/14 83/21 83/24
84/4 84/8 84/15 84/23)
84/25 85/2 86/7 86/10}
86/12 86/14 86/16
88/12 93/3
Counsel's [1] 5/19
counsels [1] 33/13
counted [1] 65/13
Counters [1] 56/24
counting [1] 67/24
country [2] 37/23
55/7
country-wide [1]
37/23
counts [2] 65/11
65/12
couple [1] 71/15
courageous [1] 20/5
course [31] 1/13 3/4
4/15 6/1 6/19 7/3 7/12
8/3 11/18 13/5 25/1
36/22 42/20 42/23
45/12 49/8 54/19
56/12 56/12 56/15
60/13 62/21 68/17
69/12 69/18 79/8
83/23 88/25 91/3 93/9
96/15
court [3] 40/8 40/15
95/3
Courtley [2] 91/6
91/15
courts [7] 34/21
34/21 40/3 40/4 40/6
40/12 40/13
cover [2] 4/13 4/21
covered [4] 34/22
63/5 80/8 81/15
crack [1] 27/24
Cranston [1] 92/8
craven [1] 20/8
create [3] 21/16
22/17 22/18
creates [1] 78/24
creating [1] 78/15
creative [1] 85/7
Creswell [1] 92/9
Crichton [6] 11/16
13/13 13/16 14/2
19/24 81/10
criminal [7] 9/4 10/5
10/17 24/9 40/3 40/12
40/17
critical [7] 17/16
(29) checks - critical
Cc
critical... [6] 17/20
17/24 18/24 19/2
20/12 20/14
crops [1] 86/13
crossed [1] 29/1
crucial [1] 42/3
crudely [1] 26/5
cultural [5] 41/4 41/5
44/4 71/17 72/11
culture [27] 21/5
30/11 30/14 30/22
39/9 39/20 40/24
40/25 41/25 42/2 42/3)
42/11 43/10 43/21
47/2 72/3 72/11 72/14)
73/1 73/5 73/7 73/12
74/12 74/16 74/19
74/24 76/2
curiosity [1] 75/1
curious [1] 18/22
current [2] 8/25
60/15
currently [1] 23/9
cynical [1] 74/3
D
damaging [2] 72/8
72/14
DAME [24] 1/3 2/23
10/18 12/18 23/11
23/21 25/22 30/3
31/22 36/10 36/13
39/2 45/21 51/23 54/1
59/21 61/1 61/23
66/23 67/12 71/9
87/19 88/20 99/2
Dame Sandra [19]
2/23 10/18 12/18
23/11 25/22 30/3
36/10 39/2 45/21
51/23 54/1 59/21 61/1
61/23 66/23 67/12
71/9 87/19 88/20
Dan [1] 92/13
danger [1] 70/7
Darfoor [1] 92/9
Darren [1] 91/19
data [1] 38/8
date [2] 88/1 88/8
dated [3] 8/13 11/16
88/3
dates [1] 26/17
Dave [1] 92/4
David [4] 17/19 90/23)
91/14 91/15
Davies [1] 91/16
Davyd [1] 91/6
DAWSON [2] 1/3
99/2
day [4] 2/4 2/5 2/17
27/21
days [1] 93/3
deadlines [1] 83/12
deal [8] 3/15 5/9 15/5
15/6 17/16 20/6 42/7
97/16
dealing [10] 3/3 4/17
4/19 5/2 11/20 13/15
19/11 24/17 60/13
73/25
dealt [6] 19/15 56/6
73/14 81/7 94/4 97/19)
debatable [1] 49/18
debating [1] 48/14
December [6] 7/3
93/3 93/18 93/20 94/9)
98/5
decide [5] 32/4 53/23
53/23 67/22 74/23
decided [2] 89/20
97/8
deciding [1] 80/22
decision [3] 14/13
58/1 88/3
decisions [1] 79/3
decisive [1] 19/12
decisively [1] 19/10
deep [1] 39/19
deeper [1] 50/2
deeply [1] 76/20
defects [4] 24/17
25/1 54/22 55/2
defence [1] 10/14
deference [1] 23/1
define [3] 8/24 84/12
84/15
defines [1] 44/17
definitely [1] 60/21
definitively [1] 11/3
defying [1] 51/21
degree [1] 95/23
delay [2] 1/5 15/17
delve [1] 50/2
demands [1] 67/1
demonstrate [1] 76/4
demonstrating [1]
77/4
demur [1] 7/6
den [1] 24/6
Department [1] 81/7
departments [4] 18/2
18/2 49/12 49/16
depend [2] 27/12
36/2
dependence [2] 38/1
38/18
dependent [1] 68/17
depending [1] 10/19
depends [1] 74/7
deprive [1] 94/11
deprived [1] 96/16
derived [1] 82/1
describe [5] 50/16
54/20 72/24 74/19
97/20
described [8] 17/6
18/16 31/20 39/12
66/10 72/3 76/21 78/6
describing [1] 33/23
description [2] 29/17
31/11
deserves [2] 68/24
96/1
despite [2] 27/9
95/24
detail [8] 11/11 12/7
19/15 46/1 48/5 57/21
57/22 83/21
details [1] 45/23
detected [1] 44/15
determinant [1] 69/7
determination [3]
19/22 72/10 97/7
determine [2] 80/13
97/4
determined [1] 86/6
develop [3] 8/9 60/5
65/20
development [9]
52/6 54/23 55/2 56/25
57/6 61/7 62/20 62/22
62/25
developments [2]
55/17 63/10
develops [1] 36/3
devote [1] 69/17
dictate [3] 3/8 10/20
23/22
did [22] 6/17 12/19
12/21 12/21 14/3 14/6
14/12 14/19 19/22
20/13 20/16 21/3 21/3
21/5 21/6 30/15 39/9
39/21 53/12 53/13
56/9 87/16
didn't [11] 14/15
14/18 30/24 31/5 31/6}
35/18 53/13 60/1
74/14 85/13 87/17
difference [3] 69/9
69/14 73/23
different [14] 18/3
24/3 27/10 33/25 63/2
65/17 66/22 68/20
69/1 73/2 74/5 74/5
82/12 97/3
difficult [6] 7/12 11/6
36/22 52/20 53/14
73/20
difficulty [1] 47/7
ested [1] 97/11
dinner [1] 21/15
direct [2] 58/18 71/4
direction [3] 29/23
72/13 73/17
directive [1] 68/21
directives [1] 29/6
directly [4] 35/1
37/17 44/21 79/3
director [17] 18/16
50/15 50/21 51/4
56/24 57/6 62/12
65/13 65/16 67/4 69/7,
70/5 70/15 84/12
84/13 84/14 87/2
directors [21] 15/24
27/10 30/6 46/22 58/3)
60/12 60/19 61/5
62/11 62/11 64/19
64/20 65/2 66/7 68/1
68/24 69/4 69/22
69/25 70/3 85/6
directors’ [2] 67/1
79/8
directorship [1]
65/11
directorships [1]
60/17
disadvantage [2]
74/3 74/7
disappear [1] 69/3
discharge [2] 57/19
92/22
discharged [1] 69/5
discharging [1]
70/16
disclosed [2] 89/24
92/24
disclosure [3] 10/12
41/11 97/15
discover [1] 35/19
discovered [1] 37/6
discussed [9] 20/9
28/17 35/21 35/25
35/25 41/8 47/19
47/23 47/24
discussing [1] 30/14
discussion [10] 9/18
12/16 30/18 55/9
58/17 62/2 64/1 67/5
68/10 80/23
discussions [3]
11/20 68/6 80/10
dishonest [2] 23/24
24/9
disputes [1] 81/8
distinction [3] 20/11
34/23 70/13
distinguish [1] 44/1
distrust [1] 44/22
diverse [1] 76/4
ide [2] 22/7 22/11
division [1] 56/6
do [81] 1/10 1/21 4/8
4/13 5/2 7/17 9/11
10/23 19/7 20/9 20/19)
21/5 21/8 21/13 23/15
23/19 23/25 25/5
25/11 26/22 28/11
30/5 31/15 34/11
34/11 34/14 37/16
40/17 40/19 42/10
42/21 43/11 46/3 48/2
48/7 48/10 52/23
53/15 54/12 60/7
60/19 60/22 62/18
66/15 66/18 66/19
67/18 67/18 67/19
68/4 68/14 68/24 70/3
70/6 73/6 73/20 74/4
TAI5 74/21 74/22
75/16 77/6 77/7 77/9
78/2 78/21 84/7 85/4
85/5 85/7 85/22 85/24I
86/11 86/15 86/20
86/22 88/18 93/19
94/3 95/3 97/8
document [21] 7/1
8/12 10/1 11/12 12/9
21/6 30/10 36/21
36/23 36/24 64/9
64/16 82/19 82/20
82/24 85/20 87/14
97/10 97/13 97/18
97/20
documents [10] 1/23
7/13 14/9 29/18 30/23}
36/8 36/8 36/15 36/18)
95/13
does [16] 4/1 4/2
20/4 20/4 20/11 25/7
35/2 42/10 49/8 55/23}
56/11 68/19 73/22
76/10 77/22 90/2
doesn't [7] 3/25 9/12
23/22 25/12 29/15
37/18 75/21
doing [9] 15/17 16/9
34/25 45/3 62/18
68/13 68/15 68/16
76/20
don't [41] 2/17 5/6
5/11 8/3 10/18 11/5
12/21 15/3 15/4 21/21
22/5 28/25 32/1 33/9
34/25 35/20 37/14
40/1 42/8 42/12 47/6
47/15 56/14 56/20
56/21 58/17 61/22
62/17 63/7 63/16 68/8
68/25 69/14 76/14
76/17 82/5 84/18 88/1
88/2 93/10 97/17
Donald [1] 91/13
done [9] 15/7 20/7
53/11 73/11 78/6
90/15 93/19 95/7
95/10
door [4] 73/24 74/1
74l2 74/6
dot [1] 42/24
dotted [2] 35/24
38/12
doubt [2] 30/4 88/5
Douglas [1] 91/17
down [12] 8/14 9/25
12/8 24/10 28/5 29/9
40/11 51/10 62/10
(30) critical... - down
D
down... [3] 65/4 66/3
88/9
downright [1] 24/9
DR [22] 1/4 2/23 7/11
10/18 12/18 23/11
25/22 31/17 33/2
36/10 39/2 44/8 46/6
46/15 51/23 54/2
61/22 70/12 71/9
88/20 91/16 99/4
Dr Naranker [1]
91/16
Dr Steward [18] 2/23
7/11 10/18 12/18
23/11 25/22 31/17
33/2 36/10 39/2 46/6
46/15 51/23 54/2
61/22 70/12 71/9
88/20
drafted [4] 11/4
draw [2] 6/20 20/11
drawing [1] 6/9
drawn [1] 30/7
drew [1] 48/15
driven [4] 3/4 3/18
4/6 4/6
drivers [1] 25/2
driving [1] 49/1
drone [1] 97/11
dual [2] 57/11 76/24
due [2] 7/3 93/9
Dulay [1] 91/16
during [9] 1/13 56/15
56/25 57/6 57/9 67/2
85/1 85/2 95/17
duties [8] 56/10
57/17 57/17 57/19
57/23 70/16 79/8
83/18
duty [16] 4/9 40/23
47/22 48/1 48/2 48/2
48/4 48/8 49/5 49/7
49/17 49/23 50/4 50/5)
50/6 50/8
E
each [4] 16/25 22/14
90/4 90/11
early [1] 63/5
easy [1] 73/8
eaten [1] 22/21
edge [1] 22/24
edition [1] 41/16
effect [4] 1/8 72/11
72/22 93/17
effective [3] 41/25
45/19 52/15
effectively [4] 50/20
54/7 73/23 88/3
effectiveness [4]
61/19 61/20 61/21
69/7
effort [2] 72/22 88/23
either [10] 3/4 8/20
15/11 16/21 17/3 24/8)
40/12 40/16 68/7
90/13
element [1] 42/19
else [3] 8/4 57/15
96/20
email [5] 6/2 11/15
11/18 11/21 11/23
embedded [2] 39/19
71/18
emphasis [4] 63/7
73/18 73/18 85/16
emphasises [1] 42/5
emphasising [1] 37/1
empirical [1] 31/14
employed [1] 46/13
employees [4] 27/10
30/18 46/11 71/20
employing [1] 27/3
employment [2] 27/5
41/12
enable [1] 18/8
encourages [1] 42/4
encouraging [1] 39/9
end [10] 10/1 14/4
37/8 67/8 70/19 70/19)
70/20 89/14 96/17
97/22
engage [1] 86/13
engagement [2] 2/16
79/11
enjoying [1] 1/22
enough [3] 16/9
19/17 66/19
ensure [14] 17/9
19/12 20/7 25/4 40/22
43/5 44/24 52/14
53/17 54/7 57/15 76/1
79/10 89/15
ensuring [2] 54/3
77/3
entailed [1] 59/10
entire [1] 19/8
entirely [2] 3/14
21/14
entirety [1] 8/4
enunciated [1] 66/14
enunciation [1] 53/8
errors [4] 24/17 25/1
54/22 55/1
essence [2] 18/18
70/16
essentially [17] 28/7
34/19 34/24 37/18
45/24 46/8 54/19 59/4
59/23 62/8 62/10
64/25 66/25 88/11
90/10 90/25 97/10
establish [1] 14/25
established [1] 76/8
ethical [1] 3/15
ethics [2] 3/5 48/23
ethos [4] 29/16 39/21
72/15 72/9
Europe [1] 76/25
evaluations [1] 61/16]
Evans [2] 56/13
91/17
even [9] 27/8 29/10
35/19 37/10 42/20
57/22 72/17 89/8
90/17
evening [2] 11/17
11/19
event [1] 5/18
events [1] 2/7
ever [2] 21/3 22/25
ever-increasing [1]
22/25
every [13] 18/17
22/15 43/22 53/2 53/6
53/7 61/16 61/17
61/17 61/17 74/12
95/7 95/9
everybody [4] 74/24
95/15 95/20 96/20
everyday [1] 72/19
everyone [6] 51/15
74/4 74/23 79/18 95/6
97/22
Everything [1] 2/5
evidence [41] 3/2 7/8
9/8 13/5 19/9 19/25
20/11 20/13 31/4
31/24 35/22 38/21
39/8 39/15 48/7 52/4
56/13 56/17 56/19
56/20 56/21 57/8
75/10 78/16 82/5 82/8
85/2 88/10 88/22
89/12 89/19 89/21
89/22 90/4 90/19
90/20 92/21 93/10
93/14 95/22 96/14
evident [1] 39/23
evidently [2] 15/9
82/16
exactly [9] 3/14
27/13 28/13 31/20
37/20 50/17 66/13
66/18 77/5
examination [1] 90/5
example [13] 3/7
20/25 38/6 39/11 43/8
52/7 60/9 61/6 76/24
81/14 81/16 82/3
82/13
examples [2] 52/21
78/11
exception [1] 96/8
excessive [2] 64/21
65/3
exchange [1] 60/23
Excuse [1] 50/3
executive [41] 4/12
4/13 5/1 15/24 17/8
18/15 18/19 19/1 19/7,
19/11 27/10 39/21
45/14 45/20 47/19
55/4 58/3 58/4 60/18
62/10 62/11 65/10
65/11 65/13 65/16
65/17 70/1 70/1 70/3
70/5 72/13 81/25
84/11 84/17 84/17
84/18 85/6 85/12 86/1
86/1 87/1
executives [10]
17/17 17/20 22/13
30/16 48/18 66/15
70/8 70/8 70/9 79/3
exemplary [1] 95/22
exercise [1] 21/7
exhaustive [1] 50/23
exhibited [1] 72/18
exist [1] 81/16
existence [1] 37/23
existential [2] 3/9 3/9
existing [1] 8/23
exists [2] 25/17 29/2
expand [1] 17/24
expect [6] 17/3 17/5
50/14 50/17 58/15
60/14
expectation [9]
35/23 43/22 43/24
58/19 84/8 84/22
85/23 86/21 86/22
expectations [2]
24/12 84/3
expected [5] 16/3
31/1 55/3 55/8 59/4
experience [11] 5/6
28/19 33/13 36/11
36/17 36/20 36/21
43/2 59/23 60/2 61/25)
experienced [2]
59/19 72/4
experiences [1]
38/15
expert [5] 9/8 9/20
12/14 12/20 18/8
expertise [5] 22/2
34/9 35/2 69/12 69/18
EXPG0000006 [1]
25/19
EXPG0000010 [1]
39/2
explain [4] 1/7 9/15
32/3 96/9
explained [2] 22/1
89/14
explicitly [1] 7/10
explore [1] 5/25
exposed [1] 20/20
express [1] 95/10
expressed [1] 37/19
extended [1] 94/21
extension [1] 94/9
extent [9] 6/19 7/21
16/2 18/3 54/24 64/1
70/17 73/1 76/19
external [10] 9/7 10/4I
12/11 45/16 46/22
47/15 61/18 86/14
87/7 87/8
extra [2] 45/7 94/5
extra organisational
[1] 45/7
extremely [8] 5/1
61/14 77/19 88/20
88/24 88/25 95/5 96/4
eyes [2] 18/23 74/2
F
face [2] 39/22 50/1
facilitation [1] 61/18
facility [1] 1/22
fact [17] 3/3 14/19
16/6 19/16 19/20
20/20 21/17 27/9
28/25 28/25 35/9
40/22 41/9 65/6 88/10
90/1 90/17
factors [1] 69/18
facts [3] 43/18 80/2
81/13
failings [4] 3/16
19/13 71/17 71/24
failure [2] 71/21
71/22
failures [3] 74/11
74/16 76/12
fair [2] 29/17 72/21
fall [1] 20/6
familiar [4] 6/1 10/19
26/11 86/13
far [9] 4/17 8/1 11/8
13/23 14/3 19/9 36/21
38/17 50/1
Farry [1] 90/23
fault [2] 6/9 6/12
FCA [1] 77/11
fear [7] 42/4 42/12
43/10 43/19 46/10
47/11 77/25
fearless [1] 3/21
Federation [1] 71/10
feed [1] 1/10
feedback [3] 46/22
69/21 69/25
feel [4] 41/3 42/16
42/18 46/3
feet [1] 75/16
felt [6] 46/4 48/16
48/25 61/25 74/24
76/20
few [1] 62/24
figure [1] 96/3
figures [1] 24/21
final [4] 10/9 12/13
13/9 78/10
finalise [2] 10/14
15/7
(81) down... - finalise
F
finalised [2] 12/17
13/10
finally [3] 52/1 59/16
93/1
finance [1] 84/13
financial [4] 24/19
63/20 77/11 77/18
find [6] 9/20 30/20
47/5 69/24 76/13
76/16
finding [2] 24/18 41/6
fine [7] 16/14 51/3
51/5 71/5 79/22 88/17
93/24
Fingers [1] 29/1
fire [3] 2/4 2/5 14/5
firms [1] 9/7
first [14] 8/21 8/23
10/3 17/23 38/4 42/8
52/4 64/5 71/13 71/16
80/1 82/24 83/22 84/6
firstly [6] 2/8 51/24
80/6 81/5 95/5 95/11
five [7] 31/3 31/5
31/5 65/8 66/20 89/2
89/5
fix [1] 73/9
flag [1] 62/14
Flemington [1] 13/14
floated [1] 67/3
flow [1] 54/20
focus [1] 10/11
focusing [2] 32/10
70/12
follow [2] 12/15
35/17
following [4] 5/15
12/16 72/12 74/25
follows [1] 94/22
footnote [1] 41/14
forget [1] 53/21
forgetting [1] 53/24
forgive [1] 38/11
forgotten [3] 52/22
52/23 54/4
form [1] 21/24
formal [2] 47/8 94/18
former [3] 14/19 75/9
79/25
forms [1] 38/18
formulaic [1] 68/2
formulate [1] 15/7
forward [6] 10/10
12/15 17/5 59/6 75/3
76/8
found [1] 30/22
fourthly [1] 81/10
frame [1] 8/2
framework [9] 23/16
23/20 23/22 24/1 24/4,
24/11 48/24 54/10
58/14
frameworks [6] 31/1
48/20 48/21 48/21
49/1 58/11
Francis [1] 91/17
frankly [1] 28/21
FRC [5] 66/11 66/13
66/22 66/24 67/2
frequently [1] 83/11
fresh [1] 74/2
Friday [3] 10/6 94/9
94/22
friend [3] 17/24
18/24 18/25
friends [2] 17/17
17/20
front [1] 7/13
FTSE [1] 62/6
FUJITSU [6] 9/10
9/11 9/14 38/2 38/9
38/17
fulfil [1] 60/22
fulfilling [1] 67/22
full [5] 6/10 31/5
47/16 67/17 89/16
fully [2] 5/24 6/11
function [1] 52/12
functional [1] 82/13
functions [2] 82/12
84/5
fundamental [2] 43/9
69/3
Furey [1] 91/17
further [8] 9/15 10/21
18/9 24/19 33/3 55/23
65/5 69/23
futility [1] 47/12
future [6] 8/19 8/24
10/2 12/10 24/25
76/13
G
gap [1] 14/4
Gardner [1] 91/6
Gareth [5] 5/19 7/24
91/16 91/20 96/11
Gary [1] 92/11
Gaunt [1] 92/10
gave [1] 57/8
Gavin [2] 13/17 13/18)
GC [8] 85/10 85/14
85/16 85/21 85/23
86/23 87/6 87/7
general [64] 5/22 6/9
6/15 6/20 7/19 8/2
9/19 11/4 11/9 17/9
31/11 31/22 31/25
32/5 32/7 32/9 32/11
32/13 32/18 32/25
33/10 33/13 33/16
33/19 34/4 34/10
34/12 34/16 34/22
34/24 35/5 35/10
35/15 35/19 35/23
36/1 36/4 36/7 48/13
55/19 56/7 56/10 66/6
70/14 80/5 80/19
81/10 82/18 82/25
83/2 83/14 83/21
83/24 84/4 84/8 84/15)
84/23 84/25 85/2 86/7
86/10 86/12 86/16
88/11
generally [4] 34/4
35/5 52/14 59/19
generic [1] 62/9
genuine [2] 43/15
43/17
get [7] 2/2 3/20 4/3
21/4 24/24 74/2 76/11
gets [2] 5/13 95/3
getting [1] 25/7
Gilbert [1] 91/18
give [20] 14/9 17/1
17/2 18/14 26/24
28/24 56/22 61/19
61/24 63/25 68/7 68/8
68/25 69/8 69/11
70/10 70/17 77/22
89/19 96/14
given [7] 18/11 27/2
44/24 62/1 72/23
75/13 90/3
gives [3] 41/12 64/17
65/5
giving [4] 18/22
34/21 48/6 64/3
go [17] 9/22 11/14
13/12 14/18 18/9
25/20 36/16 39/1
40/25 42/8 48/10
48/11 50/11 64/5 66/3
82/23 89/2
God [1] 4/2
goes [3] 18/24 25/12
95/12
going [48] 4/7 5/11
10/10 11/15 12/15
14/2 17/16 18/6 19/2
23/12 25/3 25/4 25/19
25/21 26/24 31/19
34/21 36/2 41/9 41/14I
43/23 44/9 44/10
47/17 48/11 49/4
54/13 59/6 65/5 66/16)
67/7 67/9 67/12 68/1
68/6 71/13 72/1 72/1
72/21 74/20 79/5
79/24 80/1 80/3 90/6
90/11 90/15 96/21
gone [3] 15/11 15/15
37/11
good [13] 15/14
15/18 21/22 23/18
25/4 44/18 52/17 53/4
61/18 69/13 71/7 71/7
7119
got [27] 22/10 25/1
26/4 26/4 26/9 27/10
28/1 28/1 29/8 29/13
37/24 38/4 39/11
48/12 50/19 51/15
55/10 65/1 69/4 71/4
73/23 77/6 79/18 86/9)
88/15 96/23 96/23
governance [21]
4/23 18/10 18/16
23/14 23/15 25/16
31/1 41/21 46/20
48/15 48/17 48/18
49/18 52/15 56/5
58/14 73/10 73/12
74/12 74/16 78/8
governed [2] 34/13
35/16
government [13]
24/20 25/8 26/8 27/9
28/2 28/6 37/24 38/12
48/9 75/3 75/6 76/2
7713
governmental [1]
29/5
governs [1] 34/20
graciously [1] 94/15
granted [1] 69/19
grasp [1] 50/19
grateful [8] 23/13
25/21 44/8 88/21
88/24 88/25 95/6 96/4
Gray [1] 92/10
great [5] 15/5 15/6
74/1 74/3 77/9
greater [1] 43/4
Greenhow [1] 92/10
Grenfell [1] 47/25
grievance [2] 42/15
42/17
grievances [1] 44/2
grip [1] 3/20
grips [1] 76/11
group [8] 4/13 5/2
11/2 11/23 19/11
56/14 57/25 76/4
guidance [11] 43/3
63/11 64/6 64/7 64/17,
65/6 65/19 66/9 66/10
66/17 67/17
guided [1] 24/2
guides [1] 30/20
H
had [27] 3/19 3/20
5/21 13/2 15/15 15/16
15/21 19/20 19/22
19/24 20/15 20/16
20/21 29/21 37/5
37/10 42/24 47/16
48/12 48/17 57/25
59/19 67/16 78/22
87/7 96/20 97/4
hadn't [1] 28/17
half [4] 2/11 2/17
60/16 60/16
Hancock [1] 91/6
hand [4] 26/5 26/8
53/10 95/13
handled [1] 19/24
happen [6] 16/25
17/6 44/3 44/4 47/13
47/20
happened [10] 8/4
17/10 24/5 31/11 37/1
53/22 58/15 75/13
95/18 95/19
happening [3] 1/17
2/6 16/12
happy [4] 9/14 10/23
18/14 89/3
harassment [1]
42/20
hard [4] 5/15 39/3
63/13 72/7
hardwired [1] 54/16
Harrington [1] 92/11
has [42] 1/15 1/20
11/21 19/9 30/18
36/20 37/21 39/11
40/25 41/1 43/4 43/5
44/13 47/23 52/4
56/10 58/13 58/14
60/8 63/22 65/19
67/16 67/18 71/12
73/1 73/20 75/3 76/2
77/6 78/13 89/15
89/20 90/18 90/19
95/6 95/7 95/9 95/19
95/21 95/23 96/3
96/20
hasn't [2] 30/19
65/20
have [161]
haven't [8] 29/19
45/11 56/17 56/19
64/8 78/17 83/13
88/18
having [12] 2/17 7/13)
45/16 47/14 47/14
58/8 60/2 60/2 73/9
74/24 79/9 89/23
Hayes [1] 91/18
Hazel [1] 17/19
he [16] 5/22 6/15
13/22 14/6 14/12
14/15 14/19 15/20
15/21 15/22 18/9
56/22 57/1 57/7 57/8
84/14
he'd [1] 56/24
he's [3] 51/21 57/5
57/7
head [1] 75/9
health [1] 49/9
healthy [2] 42/2
43/10
hear [5] 43/9 74/14
75/13 79/21 89/21
(32) finalised - hear
H
heard [7] 19/25 25/17
38/21 48/17 52/4
56/12 95/23
hearing [2] 93/11
98/5
heavens [1] 20/6
Heilig [1] 91/19
held [4] 10/4 12/11
45/19 84/16
help [5] 14/22 15/5
22/23 53/8 95/16
helped [1] 95/6
helpful [1] 25/4
helpfully [1] 31/22
helping [1] 8/24
helpline [1] 39/11
henceforth [1] 1/11
Henry [8] 2/8 2/20
2/21 16/15 17/14
22/23 94/13 99/6
Henry's [1] 17/7
her [4] 58/16 61/24
91/23 92/15
here [10] 1/9 9/18
13/7 14/1 26/17 34/6
66/10 73/25 86/17
97/12
herself [1] 27/21
hesitating [1] 23/21
hesitation [1] 37/10
Hickinbottom [1]
92/11
high [2] 4/25 40/8
higher [1] 37/8
highlight [2] 71/16
71/21
Hill [2] 91/19 91/20
Hillsborough [1]
47/23
him [1] 57/9
himself [1] 44/12
his [20] 5/20 12/17
13/10 14/18 15/10
37/6 56/15 56/17
56/19 56/20 56/21
56/23 58/16 75/9
78/18 85/2 91/25 92/8
92/9 96/16
history [4] 38/25
54/22 55/1 75/13
HJA [4] 2/8
hm [5] 27/19 37/4
40/7 41/7 57/13
Hodges [5] 41/15
44/12 46/17 46/25
92/12
hold [3] 64/21 66/17
67/4
holding [4] 58/5
Holdings [1] 57/24
holds [3] 40/22 65/8
65/15
Holt [2] 13/25 91/20
honesty [2] 26/13
40/23
Honourable [2] 91/21
91/24
hope [2] 28/20 33/5
hopefully [4] 23/18
39/3 40/21 46/10
hopes [1] 72/12
hoping [1] 1/12
Horizon [12] 3/16 9/9
19/13 38/1 52/6 54/23
55/2 55/6 55/6 55/17
56/25 57/6
horizontally [3]
81/12 81/14 82/4
hour [3] 2/10 11/17
11/24
how [21] 2/2 4/7
10/18 14/22 14/24
18/10 32/4 35/25 36/3
49/24 50/13 50/21
52/12 52/22 63/1 63/8
66/5 73/20 77/23 78/4
78/6
Howard [1] 17/19
Howe [1] 2/10
However [4] 1/10
29/20 77/2 77/8
Hudgell [1] 2/12
huge [4] 18/13 72/22
72/25 88/23
Hugh [1] 13/14
human [5] 24/2 46/21
72/17 91/1 91/1
hybrid [2] 48/9 59/11
hypotheses [1] 4/17
hypothesis [5] 4/19
4/21 4/25 5/3 5/8
hypothesise [2] 5/7
5/8
l agree [2] 30/3 85/5
l almost [1] 27/24
lam [6] 8/20 34/2
55/22 77/6 95/5 97/23
l answer [1] 10/22
I appreciate [1]
75/10
lare [1] 78/25
lask [7] 8/12 9/24
10/20 12/18 56/2
70/23 71/10
lasked [1] 54/23
Ibe [1] 47/12
I beg [1] 33/18
I began [1] 61/9
I believe [7] 13/2
27/1 59/7 61/13 66/2
68/23 88/16
I bring [4] 97/22
Ican [9] 13/19 16/6
33/12 42/6 71/6 75/15)
77/17 79/20 95/10
I can use [1] 62/9
I can't [10] 11/3 22/8
22/23 27/7 27/15
28/24 50/23 52/21
71/3 81/19
I cannot [3] 21/19
27/5 49/24
I completely [3]
66/23 85/8 86/2
I could [4] 28/14
49/20 63/19 94/8
I couldn't [1] 38/23
I describe [1] 97/20
Idid [1] 56/9
I didn't [2] 74/14
85/13
Ido [11] 21/8 37/16
46/3 68/4 68/14 70/6
77/9 85/5 86/15 86/20
94/3
I don't [29] 2/17 5/6
5/11 10/18 12/21 15/3}
15/4 28/25 35/20
37/14 42/8 47/6 47/15)
56/14 56/20 56/21
58/17 63/7 63/16
68/25 69/14 76/14
76/17 82/5 84/18 88/1
88/2 93/10 97/17
I enunciated [1]
66/14
l explained [1] 22/1
I fear [1] 77/25
I feel [2] 42/16 42/18
I finally [1] 59/16
I follow [1] 35/17
Ihave [19] 13/25
29/18 29/19 36/17
36/20 36/23 43/15
43/18 63/21 67/18
78/11 78/20 83/20
89/14 96/12 96/19
97/1 97/4 97/8
I haven't [3] 29/19
64/8 88/18
Uhear [1] 75/13
I hope [1] 33/5
l imagine [1] 80/24
I just [6] 5/9 25/6
31/18 35/18 50/11
94/2
I know [4] 4/24 22/20
34/16 36/21
love [1] 22/23
I may [5] 21/10 51/24
52/3 63/16 90/7
I mean [20] 4/15 6/14
8/1 14/6 18/1 18/13
20/4 22/11 26/23
37/15 38/17 43/12
47/6 50/5 50/16 53/1
54/13 58/1 61/22
66/13
I might [4] 16/8 78/14
93/7 93/19
I misunderstand [1]
46/25
I must [2] 42/16
69/24
I note [1] 36/10
I noted [1] 41/9
I now [4] 9/22 11/14
13/12 22/20
l omit [2] 12/2 12/5
I operate [1] 34/17
I perhaps [1] 28/15
I produce [1] 97/24
I promise [1] 51/18
I recall [3] 7/12 7/14
2118
I reflect [1] 88/5
l represent [1] 23/8
I said [1] 51/19
I saw [1] 36/13
I say [11] 4/18 22/8
28/24 34/8 35/2 57/21
63/15 75/13 85/25
95/24 96/2
I see [2] 50/6 64/10
I shall [1] 23/2
I should [5] 67/19
83/22 90/1 92/20 94/3)
I speak [2] 47/12
47/13
I spoke [1] 76/25
I stop [4] 61/4
I stopped [1] 62/24
I suppose [4] 4/19
24/8 53/16 95/2
I suspect [1] 89/2
I take [5] 25/18 30/10
51/7 55/23 83/17
I think [77] 1/15 1/18
1/21 1/23 6/14 7/18
8/12 13/22 14/6 14/11
18/24 19/5 19/15
20/23 22/12 23/1
23/21 24/20 24/21
26/11 26/23 28/18
31/10 32/5 32/21 33/4
33/4 33/5 33/6 33/8
34/7 36/10 36/13
37/21 38/21 38/23
41/3 42/7 43/2 43/13
43/25 44/18 45/6
46/11 47/7 47/18
48/13 49/5 53/10
55/25 59/7 60/21
61/23 62/4 63/19
65/22 65/23 66/13
68/9 69/3 69/25 70/11
70/25 73/9 74/6 74/18)
74/23 74/23 77/2 78/6
78/7 79/21 86/5 88/9
88/12 94/15 94/18
I thought [1] 28/17
I tried [1] 32/3
l understand [11] 1/6)
1/24 20/24 21/1 33/2
35/6 37/18 49/8 67/24I
76/23 80/15
I want [13] 5/25 8/6
22/21 46/3 76/19 77/6I
80/25 81/4 82/17 95/3}
95/5 96/5 96/9
I wanted [4] 18/7
62/24 76/6 79/6
Iwas [5] 18/6 31/19
54/13 70/12 94/8
I went [1] 46/7
Iwill [10] 7/11 11/12
13/20 13/21 17/8
51/19 94/19 97/13
97/15 97/17
I wish [1] 5/12
I won't [2] 1/7 97/24
I would [20] 4/9 16/7
17/5 18/14 21/14
28/12 32/18 32/19
32/20 32/24 45/15
45/16 45/17 50/16
67/17 68/9 68/14 73/7I
77124 79/14
I wouldn't [3] 17/3
22/11 69/23
I'd [7] 25/21 52/11
62/23 80/6 84/2 95/16
95/20
Vil [45] 5/13 16/15
25/19 26/5 30/4 32/11
39/4 46/17 49/20
55/25 56/21 64/25
75/20 94/15 98/1
I'm [60] 1/5 2/16 5/10
5/11 6/7 6/11 10/22
11/3 11/15 13/24 14/6)
14/11 14/11 16/22
17/16 25/21 26/24
27/5 27/13 28/15 30/3
30/4 31/17 33/21 35/9I
38/17 41/14 44/8 44/8)
44/10 48/11 50/18
51/10 61/2 67/12
67/22 68/3 71/3 71/5
71/13 71/25 72/1
74/21 76/22 79/24
80/1 80/2 81/20 82/7
82/8 85/13 88/20
88/24 88/24 89/3 90/6
90/11 90/15 94/14
96/4
I've [19] 11/21 17/5
33/4 33/4 33/5 33/13
36/23 36/24 36/25
39/6 42/5 50/19 51/23}
61/12 69/1 78/6 87/13)
93/19 96/2
idea [4] 3/19 18/24
48/3 75/4
ideal [1] 52/21
identification [1]
(33) heard - identification
identification... [1]
54/9
identified [9] 3/10
13/2 31/2 52/8 55/18
75/2 76/12 77/2 85/20
identifies [2] 84/5
90/10
identify [5] 3/13 9/8
71/18 71/22 74/16
identifying [3] 83/7
85/3 85/10
if [77] 1/24 3/6 4/21
4/22 5/15 8/18 12/8
13/14 15/18 15/25
16/17 19/2 21/16
22/13 23/23 24/5 24/7
25/6 25/15 25/20 26/8
28/22 29/1 29/2 30/15
33/9 37/10 37/14
37/23 42/6 42/12
42/13 42/16 42/17
43/14 43/15 43/23
44/10 45/1 46/7 47/12
47/12 48/19 49/20
50/6 50/11 51/24 52/3
53/20 56/14 61/10
62/9 63/19 64/5 65/2
65/22 67/19 68/15
70/8 73/23 75/15
78/14 80/15 81/16
82/11 82/11 82/23
84/19 86/12 87/3 87/6
88/6 90/6 93/8 93/18
94/8 96/22
ignore [1] 4/14
imagine [2] 11/9
80/24
immoral [2] 23/23
24/9
impact [6] 3/17 19/13
25/9 74/24 91/1 91/1
imperative [2] 3/18
4/6
Imperial [1] 13/1
implementation [1]
53/8
implicit [1] 61/11
implied [1] 59/8
importance [7] 5/24
6/11 37/8 42/6 77/8
77/9 81/11
important [22] 3/12
9/3 14/24 26/14 37/3
41/16 42/1 42/9 43/1
43/25 47/1 53/15 54/3)
54/11 59/13 61/14
64/11 73/19 77/20
77/24 86/6 88/6
impression [3] 21/4
78/25 79/1
imprisoned [1] 3/19
improve [3] 75/25
76/2 78/14
improved [1] 18/11
improving [2] 73/10
77/3
inappropriate [1]
45/2
incarnation [1] 77/18
inches [1] 38/22
incidence [1] 8/1
inclined [1] 8/9
include [1] 10/16
including [3] 46/20
56/4 70/1
incoming [1] 71/23
increasing [1] 22/25
increasingly [2]
39/23 42/22
indeed [12] 5/7 6/4
6/24 13/11 16/13 28/4
35/21 39/3 66/11
76/11 85/5 85/19
independent [15] 9/8
9/13 9/20 12/14 12/20
13/1 15/24 18/18
18/22 19/6 20/5 21/22
21/22 22/2 58/3
indicate [2] 20/18
21/2
indicates [1] 20/7
indifference [1]
72117
individual [4] 42/17
44/15 58/13 61/12
individuals [9] 24/5
46/9 46/12 52/5 59/17)
59/19 61/21 89/18
89/21
induct [1] 71/23
induction [2] 52/24
61/13
infamous [1] 4/15
inform [4] 16/9 53/16
54/25 58/16
informal [1] 35/24
informally [1] 67/6
information [9] 10/13
15/11 19/17 46/20
48/7 55/3 81/18 81/18
81/25
informed [3] 52/24
57/16 59/5
ingenuity [1] 22/25
initial [5] 8/22 60/20
60/23 61/10 61/11
injustices [1] 40/14
INQ00002029 [1]
90/8
inquiries [1] 47/24
Inquiry [24] 30/25
31/21 47/25 47/25
52/4 55/16 55/18
56/12 60/8 63/6 71/11
78/16 89/13 89/15
89/20 90/18 92/21
93/10 95/9 95/21 96/1
96/2 96/15 97/6
Inquiry's [2] 89/25
92/25
instances [1] 16/7
instant [1] 73/13
instantaneous [1]
1/22
instead [2] 19/20
48/5
institution [2] 60/24
66/4
institutional [11]
44/16 51/24 52/3
52/11 52/15 52/18
53/9 54/16 55/20
64/16 66/1
insurers [1] 20/2
integrity [2] 19/21
26/12
intend [1] 89/13
interest [8] 3/5 4/7
41/11 42/14 42/18
43/1 43/17 79/7
interestingly [1] 3/2
interests [3] 19/3
22/1 23/25
Interim [3] 81/23
82/1 82/10
internal [3] 41/22
42/1 83/3
Internet [2] 1/7 1/13
interpreted [1] 22/18
intervention [1]
40/12
into [22] 18/9 20/17
24/25 29/4 45/25
48/12 66/25 78/8
83/13 83/17 89/22
89/23 90/2 90/6 90/12
90/22 91/5 91/9 92/6
92/17 93/12 93/13
intolerable [1] 3/20
introduced [1] 78/5
introduction [1] 23/7
inventory [1] 3/22
investigate [1] 48/4
investigation [2]
35/18 92/22
investigations [1]
24/16
Investigators [1]
24/7
invite [1] 97/13
invited [1] 96/6
involve [2] 44/13
44/19
involved [4] 28/8
50/20 52/5 87/21
involvement [1] 59/1
involving [1] 61/18
irrespective [1]
48/24
is [291]
is very [1] 75/21
Ismail [2] 78/20
78/25
isn't [9] 14/4 21/24
59/20 62/1 62/1 65/24
68/18 69/12 73/9
ISS [7] 64/20 65/2
65/24 66/1 66/4 66/20
66/22
ISS's [1] 67/24
issue [10] 3/21 6/6
7/24 8/7 9/19 44/5
86/12 97/4 97/17
97/19
issues [16] 9/25 10/8
12/12 13/8 15/1 46/10)
46/13 78/20 80/13
80/22 81/15 83/8
83/11 85/22 89/16
97/3
it [229]
it's [79] 2/4 2/5 3/5
AI5 4/6 5/12 5/16 7/12)
8/13 11/5 11/17 12/8
19/2 19/4 24/1 24/9
24/21 25/3 26/2 26/23)
27/18 27/9 27/14 27/14
29/13 29/22 30/11
30/19 31/10 31/14
32/5 32/15 33/8 35/7
36/2 36/22 37/22
38/23 38/24 41/8 41/9)
41/19 41/20 41/21
42/8 42/22 43/9 45/2
45/8 45/12 52/20
53/14 59/2 61/3 61/15)
61/25 64/6 64/9 64/10
64/25 66/2 66/24
67/21 69/21 69/25
70/25 71/5 71/7 72/7
72/21 73/8 73/8 77/1
79/16 86/5 86/5 88/13
97/2 97/16
its [17] 3/17 5/24
6/11 9/14 19/13 25/1
29/4 29/16 38/7 47/2
48/1 72/6 75/15 76/23
92/22 92/22 95/12
itself [4] 35/16 45/9
47/16 78/1
J
Jacobs [1] 78/18
James [1] 91/20
Jane [2] 91/7 91/19
January [4] 12/22
12/23 12/24 12/25
January 2014 [1]
12/25
jargon [1] 38/11
Jarnail [1] 24/7
Javid [1] 91/20
Jeffrey [1] 91/22
Jeffreys [1] 92/12
Jenkins [3] 5/19 7/24
37/7
Jenkins’ [4] 96/11
Jenkins's [1] 96/14
Jeremy [1] 91/14
job [13] 31/10 42/13
43/19 67/18 68/8
68/13 68/24 72/25
85/8 88/10 88/11
88/14 88/15
jobs [1] 74/21
John [3] 90/24 91/6
91/23
Johnson [1] 91/21
join [1] 44/6
joke [1] 51/20
Jonathan [3] 56/13
91/20 97/6
judge [1] 95/3
Julie [1] 90/23
July [4] 6/22 6/23
81/2 81/24
JUNE [2] 1/3 99/2
jurors [1] 89/7
just [39] 2/7 5/9 6/7
11/20 25/6 31/18
31/19 32/9 35/9 35/18
40/15 44/9 44/10
47/14 47/14 48/3 48/5)
50/11 51/19 53/21
56/22 61/1 64/5 64/15
64/25 65/22 68/3
71/14 71/17 72/1
74/25 78/9 78/10 84/2
84/4 88/21 93/19 94/2
96/2
justice [7] 20/7 39/23
39/25 40/2 40/5 40/9
40/15
K
Kamran [1] 90/24
KATY [2] 1/4 99/4
Kay [1] 90/23
KC [2] 91/14 97/6
keep [2] 29/8 68/12
keeps [1] 51/21
Kenneth [1] 90/24
kept [1] 95/25
key [4] 3/13 32/23
75/20 75/23
kind [1] 55/3
kindly [1] 87/15
King's [1] 5/18
knew [3] 55/16 58/16
86/23
know [38] 2/7 4/24
6/17 8/4 9/17 10/18
11/5 11/20 14/19 18/7I
19/21 22/20 24/24
28/25 29/6 30/5 34/11
34/14 34/16 36/21
36/22 42/19 44/23
45/11 48/5 54/21
(34) identification... - know
K
know... [12] 55/11
56/14 63/10 65/6 71/5)
84/19 86/6 87/11 88/1
88/2 88/22 93/1
knowledge [9] 5/19
5/20 15/1 33/9 33/9
58/13 81/12 81/14
82/4
known [3] 28/19
33/13 36/24
knows [1] 14/3
knuckles [1] 27/25
Kramer [1] 91/22
L
lack [1] 59/9
lady [2] 95/13 95/14
Laidlaw [1] 97/6
Lamb [1] 91/23
land [2] 29/9 53/11
language [1] 72/18
large [3] 23/8 25/8
60/13
larger [1] 32/7
last [4] 8/20 11/18
47/22 95/3
late [1] 63/6
later [2] 30/8 52/7
Laura [1] 92/3
law [9] 10/4 12/11
41/15 42/21 46/13
47/23 49/7 63/16
86/11
laws [1] 58/11
lawyer [6] 33/11 34/4
34/11 35/20 50/19
85/18
lawyers [8] 16/1
33/14 33/23 34/3
34/25 35/11 57/8
95/12
lay [3] 3/24 85/11
85/12
layered [1] 11/7
layers [1] 27/10
Leach [1] 92/13
leadership [5] 26/13
44/5 48/22 71/19
73/22
leads [1] 3/6
leapfrogging [1]
46/21
learn [6] 30/8 33/15
45/22 45/25 53/13
53/13
learning [2] 39/10
45/22
least [4] 35/24 39/15
72/12 76/8
led [1] 96/3
left [3] 26/5 62/4
70/18
left-hand [1] 26/5
legal [25] 8/18 10/2
12/9 34/21 36/8 37/2
43/14 56/6 63/13
63/15 63/15 83/3 83/6
83/7 83/8 83/18 84/7
84/9 84/23 85/3 85/10
85/15 85/16 85/21
97/10
legality [1] 44/17
legally [1] 49/6
legitimate [1] 22/4
length [4] 32/10
32/12 38/21 38/22
Les [4] 92/2
less [2] 45/14 90/13
lessons [2] 53/13
53/14
let's [8] 3/4 15/5
21/10 25/15 27/17
28/5 63/6 94/18
letting [1] 51/10
level [5] 28/5 43/22
49/16 69/13 73/21
liability [1] 21/2
liaised [1] 81/9
liaising [1] 81/4
lies [1] 6/12
life [4] 28/18 72/19
86/11 87/20
like [25] 26/8 28/23
29/2 32/24 33/9 36/6
43/14 43/24 44/10
45/18 46/7 52/11
55/21 61/10 62/23
70/5 75/12 75/23 76/7
77/10 78/14 84/2 89/8)
95/16 95/20
likely [3] 5/3 28/21
62/16
limit [3] 22/24 65/10
67/13
Limited [1] 56/25
limits [2] 63/13 63/15
line [6] 35/24 38/12
39/12 46/21 51/15
71/4
Lisa [4] 92/11
list [2] 36/13 71/24
listed [2] 64/22 65/9
listen [3] 47/5 50/5
89/4
listened [1] 77/16
listening [4] 39/10
77/9 78/10 79/5
little [2] 49/18 78/12
live [1] 1/9
livelihood [1] 42/13
Lloyd [1] 91/23
long [4] 36/13 38/24
73/14 73/25
long-term [1] 73/14
longer [5] 51/19
53/24 75/14 96/12
96/20
longer-term [1]
75/14
longstanding [1]
2/16
look [16] 4/7 4/10
13/19 14/8 16/7 21/10
25/15 28/12 41/19
48/4 48/6 64/4 65/22
71/13 77/10 90/21
looked [19] 11/11
17/2 20/21 31/12
37/13 40/3 52/9 55/11
55/13 56/17 56/19
57/21 64/16 74/11
78/4 83/13 83/17
83/20 87/16
looking [12] 8/2
26/16 27/4 39/4 39/8
71/3 71/5 73/21 78/11
78/11 84/4 88/21
looks [1] 18/18
Lord [1] 91/24
loser [1] 74/22
losers [2] 74/10
74/15
losing [1] 43/19
lost [1] 20/22
lot [3] 19/5 22/21
91/12
love [1] 22/23
Lucas [1] 17/19
Macaldowie [1]
90/24
MacLeod [1] 88/14
Macleod's [1] 91/10
made [11] 1/19 7/10
29/24 33/4 33/5 46/6
53/3 75/5 78/21 90/7
94/8
magnificent [1]
95/11
Mail [2] 56/14 57/24
intain [1] 53/14
tained [1] 52/19
maintainer [1] 38/19
maintaining [2] 53/9
58/10
major [3] 7/9 53/24
53/25
make [15] 2/23 24/8
43/4 46/9 47/17 47/20
47/21 47/21 49/7
54/13 78/22 95/6
96/20 96/21 97/1
making [6] 24/16
45/1 45/18 54/6 96/17
97/14
Malcolm [1] 91/10
management [11]
3/7 46/21 49/2 54/5
54/9 54/10 54/17
54/19 62/9 66/18 87/4
manager [4] 13/25
81/6 81/6 81/8
managers [1] 46/24
managing [4] 63/8
83/2 83/7 84/6
mandate [2] 65/11
66/5
mandates [6] 65/8
65/12 65/14 66/21
67/14 67/25
mandatory [2] 61/6
62/3
Mandelson [1] 91/25
many [6] 52/21 55/15
59/19 73/1 73/2 73/2
mark [2] 64/23 92/3
market [2] 77/14
7714
marketing [1] 84/13
Marnoch [1] 91/25
Marsh [1] 91/25
Martin [1] 92/14
MARY [2] 1/4 99/4
matched [1] 50/4
material [1] 23/13
matter [13] 5/22 6/15
19/11 19/12 23/12
23/25 32/3 32/16 35/9)
45/12 49/6 50/13 58/1
matters [13] 18/5
32/9 38/5 41/17 45/24)
46/16 51/23 58/17
80/4 80/8 80/17 87/5
90/19
Matthews [1] 13/17
maximum [1] 67/3
may [36] 5/8 10/13
11/4 13/5 14/15 21/10}
23/21 24/13 25/11
25/11 30/8 30/21 37/3
38/18 51/24 52/3
53/23 53/23 61/16
63/16 63/17 64/2
64/20 69/2 75/17
77/25 85/10 85/12
85/17 85/18 86/10
90/7 90/21 92/6 93/9
96/13
maybe [7] 13/21 53/6
53/6 53/7 63/1 87/14
87/15
McCormack [1] 92/2
me [34] 10/23 13/18
15/5 18/13 30/4 32/24}
35/7 35/21 37/15
38/11 48/25 50/3 50/6
50/18 51/11 51/21
61/23 63/17 67/11
67/21 68/2 76/13
82/11 84/20 89/7
90/13 93/11 93/19
94/11 94/19 94/25
95/17 97/11 97/18
mean [25] 4/2 4/15
6/14 8/1 14/6 18/1
18/13 20/4 22/11 25/6)
26/23 37/15 38/17
43/12 47/6 50/5 50/16
53/1 54/13 58/1 61/22!
66/13 80/17 90/2
94/11
meaning [1] 49/21
means [3] 2/17 72/8
95/9
meant [1] 6/6
medium [3] 73/14
75/18 76/9
meet [4] 21/14
meeting [12] 6/23
7/15 8/20 9/16 9/17
10/4 11/2 11/23 12/11
13/23 15/16 15/19
meetings [6] 32/1
33/1 66/6 78/20 80/7
80/21
member [5] 32/21
36/14 36/24 84/14
87/2
members [4] 28/10
32/6 71/12 71/24
memory [7] 51/25
52/4 52/11 52/16
52/18 53/9 54/16
mention [3] 87/17
87/22 94/2
mentioned [4] 31/22
54/3 78/9 79/6
merits [1] 82/10
Merrit [1] 90/24
messages [1] 1/16
messy [1] 20/21
Michael [1] 92/4
Microphone [1]
51/18
middle [1] 60/15
might [19] 4/1 11/6
11/9 16/6 16/8 20/14
27/11 29/10 32/6
42/24 58/18 67/3 70/4)
75/12 76/24 78/6
78/14 93/7 93/19
Miller [1] 52/8
mind [4] 2/18 21/19
21/23 47/10
mine [1] 2/17
ministerial [2] 49/12
49/16
minute [1] 7/11
minutes [8] 2/9 2/10
2/13 2/13 2/14 89/2
89/5 97/12
misbehaving [1] 96/4I
miscarriages [6]
39/23 39/25 40/2 40/5I
40/9 40/15
misconduct [2]
44/15 44/20
(35) know... - misconduct
misplaced [1] 67/11
misquoted [1] 21/10
Misra [2] 10/19 11/10
miss [1] 1/12
missed [1] 20/10
missing [1] 35/10
misunderstand [1]
46/25
misunderstanding
[1] 96/10
mitigation [1] 54/10
mm [13] 17/22 20/3
27/19 30/9 30/9 37/4
37/9 37/9 38/13 40/7
41/7 57/13 75/8
Mm-hm [5] 27/19
37/4 40/7 41/7 57/13
model [3] 18/10
48/15 52/15
models [1] 78/7
modest [1] 94/8
Moloney [6] 2/12
51/16 51/17 51/20
70/24 99/10
moment [8] 1/10
44/9 46/14 50/3 50/9
61/2 61/2 62/7
Monday [3] 94/9
94/21 98/5
money [2] 24/25 25/8
monitor [1] 54/25
monitored [2] 53/18
54/8
monitoring [1] 54/5
moral [5] 3/18 3/21
4/6 23/18 47/3
more [25] 4/6 5/3
20/19 26/8 37/3 45/13,
45/23 45/25 48/5
49/12 49/18 61/3 62/5)
62/7 62/16 62/25 65/8
68/20 70/5 70/9 78/13,
79/2 80/19 87/13
87/16
morning [8] 1/6 1/14
2/11 51/7 71/8 71/9
89/1 93/20
most [2] 18/7 67/20
mostly [1] 74/20
motivated [1] 3/15
motivates [1] 19/4
motivation [3] 3/23
3/24 4/5
motivations [2] 2/25
3/4
motive [1] 4/18
move [7] 9/10 11/12
27/17 29/1 32/11
82/17 92/6
Mr [63] 1/5 2/8 2/9
2/12 2/20 2/21 6/8 7/4,
7/5 7/5 7/6 7/6 TIT
9/25 15/2 15/7 16/15
16/18 17/7 17/14
22/23 22/24 23/5 23/6
24/7 33/7 35/22 37/5
37/6 37/7 50/10 51/6
51/11 51/16 51/17
51/20 52/8 56/3 56/13)
60/10 70/24 78/18
78/20 78/25 79/16
79/19 79/23 84/25
88/6 89/10 89/11 91/3
93/11 94/1 94/13
94/19 96/11 96/14
99/6 99/8 99/10 99/14
99/16
Mr Altman [7] 6/8 7/5
7/6 7/6 9/25 15/2
16/18
Mr Altman's [2] 7/7
15/7
Mr Aujard [1] 84/25
Mr Beer [11] 1/5 33/7
35/22 51/6 56/3 88/6
89/10 91/3 93/11 94/1
94/19
Mr Bradshaw [1]
24/7
Mr Casey [2] 79/16
79/19
Mr Clarke [1] 37/6
Mr Clarke's [1] 37/5
Mr Gareth [1] 96/11
Mr Henry [8] 2/8 2/20
2/21 16/15 17/14
22/23 94/13 99/6
Mr Henry's [1] 17/7
Mr Ismail [2] 78/20
78/25
Mr Jacobs [1] 78/18
Mr Jenkins's [1]
96/14
Mr Miller [4] 52/8
Mr Moloney [4] 2/12
51/16 51/20 70/24
Mr Rodric [1] 7/5
Mr Staunton [1]
60/10
Mr Stein [7] 2/9
22/24 23/5 23/6 50/10
51/11 99/8
Mrs [1] 90/23
Mrs Wolstenholme
[4] 90/23
Ms [17] 2/14 9/10
11/16 21/20 24/6 24/6
27/20 70/25 71/1 80/7
80/7 80/12 80/17
80/22 85/1 88/14
99/12
Ms Badenoch [1]
27/20
Ms Crichton [1]
11/16
Ms MacLeod [1]
88/14
Ms Perkins [4] 80/7
80/12 80/17 80/22
Ms van [1] 24/6
MS VENNELLS [4]
9/10 21/20 24/6 80/7
Ms Vennells' [2] 2/14
85/1
Ms Watt [1] 70/25
much [18] 5/17 10/2
25/17 49/2 50/9 51/5
51/18 54/16 58/9 63/7
79/5 82/17 87/13 89/1
92/20 93/25 97/10
98/2
multi [2] 11/7 82/13
multi-functional [1]
82/13
multiple [3] 46/20
64/19 65/1
must [8] 20/6 20/6
42/16 47/3 58/6 69/24,
83/14 88/22
mustn't [1] 42/15
muted [1] 51/18
my [49] 4/2 12/6
15/14 22/21 23/8
27/24 28/18 31/23
32/24 33/12 34/8
34/13 35/2 35/18
36/17 36/20 36/20
43/2 43/19 44/3 45/13
46/2 46/3 47/22 49/22
61/24 61/25 67/10
67/11 67/17 67/21
67/22 68/3 69/24
77/21 79/1 79/15 80/4
80/9 81/13 81/22
84/21 85/16 93/13
94/12 95/8 95/10
95/11 97/21
N
name [4] 23/8 56/15
59/23 61/23
named [1] 97/6
namely [1] 19/13
Naranker [1] 91/16
narrative [1] 20/22
narrow [1] 88/9
Nash [1] 91/7
National [1] 71/10
nature [7] 16/10
53/16 54/24 54/25
57/25 59/5 85/11
nearly [1] 18/17
neatly [1] 31/16
necessarily [9] 17/3
19/18 23/22 25/4
44/21 46/12 73/13
90/3 90/5
necessary [5] 45/17
72/22 75/3 75/12
89/21
necessity [2] 53/17
54/25
NED [3] 18/10 21/5
79/2
NEDs [15] 19/10
19/23 20/8 20/20 21/7}
21/14 21/17 21/21
22/6 22/13 22/17
78/15 78/18 79/9
79/12
need [17] 3/25 8/25
9/20 14/8 40/1 42/8
45/6 45/16 46/19
47/18 51/16 54/17
56/20 56/21 68/4 73/2
74/9
needed [2] 13/22
87/11
needs [10] 9/13
40/23 44/19 50/4 50/7)
68/23 73/3 76/5 79/10)
85/14
neither [4] 5/22 6/15
8/8 32/20
Network [5] 56/24
57/5 76/5 81/9 81/9
never [3] 36/20 37/13}
51/11
Neville [1] 91/23
Neville-Rolfe [1]
91/23
new [2] 41/8 88/11
next [10] 11/12 15/21
16/18 31/23 45/22
65/6 70/25 80/25
81/22 91/9
NFSP [3] 2/13 71/12
75/3
NHS [1] 49/10
no [28] 17/14 17/14
17/15 17/15 23/25
30/4 31/24 32/15
33/12 33/16 34/10
35/14 35/17 49/14
50/24 53/10 53/24
54/13 57/22 58/1 62/5
69/9 72/7 83/20 87/13,
88/5 88/19 96/9
NOBLE [2] 1/3 99/2
nobody [1] 47/6
Nolan [16] 25/17
25/23 26/10 26/16
28/2 28/10 28/16
28/21 29/16 29/20
29/23 30/7 48/14
48/22 49/3 50/12
non [17] 17/17 17/20
18/15 19/7 48/18 58/3}
60/18 62/11 65/10
65/11 65/17 66/15
70/3 70/5 70/8 70/9
85/18
non-executive [7]
18/15 19/7 58/3 60/18)
62/11 70/3 70/5
non-executives [6]
17/17 17/20 48/18
66/15 70/8 70/9
nor [3] 5/22 6/15
32/20
normal [4] 1/9 1/14
35/23 61/15
normally [3] 32/25
58/15 61/21
Norman [1] 91/23
not [129]
note [7] 8/16 11/1
27/6 36/10 64/6 64/7
93/17
noted [2] 8/16 41/9
nothing [3] 7/24
55/16 84/10
notice [1] 88/7
notification [1] 20/1
notified [1] 93/14
notion [1] 77/25
notwithstanding [1]
5/18
novel [1] 83/11
November [2] 1/1
7/20
November 2013 [1]
7/20
now [56] 1/11 7/1 8/6
9/20 9/22 11/14 13/12
14/6 17/14 17/16
17/17 19/8 22/20
23/14 26/5 26/16
27/24 28/6 28/9 29/1
32/6 35/21 36/10
37/21 39/11 39/25
41/5 42/5 47/22 51/8
51/21 53/4 60/14
60/16 63/2 63/9 63/10)
63/20 69/21 71/5 79/4
79/16 79/20 79/21
81/11 82/23 83/13
85/20 93/8 93/18
93/19 93/23 94/18
94/21 95/21 97/8
nowadays [1] 42/20
nuclear [2] 60/10
60/11
number [11] 23/8
30/24 31/2 31/3 36/17)
52/5 63/22 64/21
67/13 77/13 97/16
number 1 [1] 30/24
number 2 [1] 31/3
numerous [1] 48/18
[e)
O'Mahoney [1] 92/14
objectivity [1] 19/21
obligation [2] 50/6
50/7
obligations [3] 10/12
56/6 67/23
(36) misplaced - obligations
[e)
observations [1]
62/10
observed [2] 8/3
57/10
obtain [1] 92/23
obtained [2] 5/4
89/16
obtaining [1] 79/12
obvious [2] 4/20 8/11
obviously [6] 3/11
11/6 14/23 28/1 58/20
86/10
occasionally [1] 32/5
occlusion [1] 43/18
occupy [1] 34/24
occurred [1] 40/9
occurring [1] 1/11
occurs [1] 93/15
October [1] 7/19
odd [1] 28/1
oddity [1] 34/24
off [8] 5/2 10/9 12/13
13/9 32/12 53/2 53/23}
97/11
offer [1] 66/17
offered [1] 63/23
office [48] 20/21
24/18 24/23 25/3
26/20 27/1 27/4 27/17
28/9 29/4 29/7 29/19
31/25 32/13 35/3 37/2
37/21 37/25 40/11
44/23 45/8 45/9 45/10)
45/20 46/5 48/9 48/19
49/22 55/21 56/24
59/13 71/17 72/23
75/4 75/19 75/24 76/3
76/5 76/10 76/15 79/1
79/10 81/3 81/7 82/9
83/19 88/7 97/5
Office's [4] 20/2 60/8
83/23 88/3
Officer [1] 52/9
offices [2] 29/8 71/13)
official [1] 46/18
officials [1] 28/2
often [6] 22/12 38/5
52/20 60/5 77/25 96/2
Oh [4] 4/2 16/4 28/17
53/12
okay [9] 1/23 11/5
25/15 27/16 29/11
41/6 56/1 64/24 88/17)
oldest [2] 37/22
37/23
Olympian [1] 3/25
omit [2] 12/2 12/5
on [122]
once [4] 8/25 55/10
64/15 87/16
one [55] 3/23 5/9
7/13 7/15 9/2 14/3
15/16 18/17 20/4
20/13 21/20 22/3 27/1
28/20 28/20 31/12
37/22 41/5 43/5 44/9
46/16 50/3 50/9 50/25
51/1 52/21 52/25 54/3)
55/23 58/15 61/17
61/20 62/6 63/8 64/8
65/11 65/16 67/14
72/12 73/1 73/12
73/17 76/8 76/24
77/10 78/18 84/11
84/15 84/25 86/11
94/2 95/12 96/5 96/8
97/2
one's [2] 60/17 63/8
only [6] 13/2 28/14
61/19 72/14 79/13
95/10
onto [3] 27/17 65/6
95/13
onwards [2] 27/2
93/8
open [1] 29/8
openness [1] 26/13
operate [3] 34/17
34/19 83/15
operated [2] 55/6
95/9
operating [3] 38/14
39/7 52/9
operation [1] 52/7
operational [3] 54/4
83/8 85/21
operations [1] 59/13
opinion [6] 14/9
15/13 15/14 16/19
45/12 95/8
opportunity [5] 20/10
74/1 94/12 96/16
96/21
opposed [1] 68/21
opposite [2] 21/17
41
optic [1] 7/7
optically [1] 20/21
optics [1] 78/14
optimal [1] 21/5
option [2] 60/10
60/11
options [1] 12/13
or [88] 3/5 3/5 3/9
4/13 5/4 5/5 6/6 8/9
8/10 8/10 8/21 14/7
14/13 14/18 15/11
15/12 16/19 16/21
17/4 17/9 24/9 24/9
28/7 28/14 29/17
30/16 30/21 32/19
34/5 36/23 39/10
40/12 40/16 42/13
42/13 42/19 42/20
43/17 43/19 43/20
44/3 46/12 48/17
48/22 49/23 53/13
55/4 55/6 57/15 57/22
58/14 58/16 59/2 59/8
60/24 61/6 61/7 61/7
61/17 62/1 65/4 65/13
65/16 67/14 67/22
68/2 68/7 69/8 69/16
69/20 70/6 70/14
70/15 70/19 70/20
72/17 73/8 73/20
75/23 76/18 78/3
81/18 84/14 88/2 89/4]
90/4 90/19 91/1
oral [8] 78/16 85/2
88/25 89/12 89/19
89/21 93/1 94/7
order [5] 2/7 14/9
40/21 70/3 73/4
organisation [21]
3/25 4/11 4/15 25/9
26/21 27/9 36/3 38/15)
39/20 40/22 42/10
44/7 44/22 47/2 47/16
47/21 53/3 53/11
55/21 61/12 72/19
organisation's [2]
413 41/25
organisational [6]
41/1 42/3 44/15 44/20
45/7 45/23
organisations [7]
3/13 30/12 30/15 44/1
52/20 54/15 74/19
other [39] 1/16 6/17
10/16 11/8 13/5 16/11
18/5 20/10 22/14
27/21 27/22 34/3 34/6
34/20 38/4 38/18
38/18 43/21 47/4
47/24 47/24 49/14
49/18 53/10 60/17
62/11 64/3 67/1 69/18
69/21 69/25 72/5 78/7
79/10 79/12 88/9
90/15 95/7 95/14
others [6] 24/7 34/1
37/3 39/24 47/5 69/2
otherwise [1] 97/24
ought [2] 7/9 87/21
our [25] 4/2 8/1 9/4
9/7 9/15 10/4 10/12
12/11 13/25 19/16
20/10 25/20 28/5
28/17 30/18 34/20
45/12 47/20 48/16
51/6 51/7 59/8 66/14
76/21 87/15
out [19] 1/20 4/4 5/12
8/6 15/6 24/17 26/12
27/25 29/14 40/10
42/4 66/24 69/24
78/22 86/17 90/13
90/14 93/16 97/9
outcome [1] 23/23
outlined [1] 74/11
outputs [1] 9/2
outraged [1] 19/23
outside [6] 1/17 33/8
33/24 44/25 45/11
70/4
outsource [1] 45/13
over [15] 9/3 16/18
22/24 71/19 82/23
88/25 89/10 91/16
91/19 91/22 92/2
92/13 93/3 95/21
96/15
overall [3] 61/19
84/11 85/25
overboarded [2] 65/9)
65/18
overboarding [5]
52/2 59/17 63/4 63/14
64/13
overnight [1] 8/13
overseeing [1] 75/7
oversight [12] 9/3
23/14 28/8 75/1 75/4
75/22 75/22 76/7
76/18 76/19 76/23
77125
overturned [1] 40/4
owe [1] 83/18
owed [1] 57/17
Owen [4] 17/19 92/2
92/3 92/16
own [5] 5/2 9/14 20/1
75/15 76/16
owned [2] 27/20
47/16
Pp
page [22] 5/11 5/16
12/9 17/23 25/20 26/1
30/10 39/2 39/5 39/17
41/20 42/9 64/6 65/7
65/23 66/3 82/23
91/16 91/19 91/22
92/2 92/13
page 129 [1] 17/23
page 31 [1] 5/16
page 40 [2] 39/2 39/5
page 41 [1] 39/17
page 527 [1] 41/20
page 88 [1] 30/10
page 95 [2] 25/20
26/1
pages [2] 96/8 96/23
paid [1] 45/11
pair [2] 18/22 74/2
panels [4] 77/13
77/14 77/14 77/19
paper [10] 7/20 7/23
12/15 12/19 12/21
14/25 17/4 87/6 87/9
87/10
papers [1] 62/17
para [1] 12/3
paragraph [11] 5/9
5/10 5/13 21/13 39/4
39/17 48/16 66/25
83/5 83/23 84/5
paragraph 106 [2]
5/10 5/13
paragraph 140 [1]
39/4
Paragraph 145 [1]
39/17
paragraph 15 [1]
66/25
paragraphs [2] 82/24)
97/16
pardon [1] 33/18
part [8] 5/12 18/8
18/19 21/25 39/15
42/2 59/13 63/5
Participant [1] 71/11
Participants [9] 2/8
2/10 2/12 90/4 92/24
93/2 93/14 93/16
95/16
particular [8] 21/4
29/9 29/10 30/6 44/16
68/8 86/11 96/17
particularly [6] 3/9
9/20 23/2 29/21 55/10}
87/23
party [2] 38/2 38/9
passionately [1] 68/3I
passive [1] 79/2
past [7] 5/21 52/25
67/16 76/12 78/13
78/23 79/4
Patel [1] 92/14
Paul [2] 91/6 92/17
Paula [9] 6/2 6/12 8/9
8/15 11/16 13/20 14/2I
21/4 79/25
Pause [1] 14/5
pay [2] 39/13 95/20
peculiar [1] 38/3
peculiarities [1] 39/6
peculiarity [1] 37/25
peers [2] 62/13 67/22)
penalised [1] 47/12
people [34] 4/21 6/17
11/8 21/23 26/25 27/3}
33/22 41/6 42/4 42/12I
42/18 43/6 43/22 47/3)
47/4 47/8 47/11 52/13
54/15 59/24 60/3 60/5
65/1 67/20 68/4 68/5
73/8 74/3 74/18 76/4
77/4 82/12 87/21
95/25
people's [4] 2/25
25/9 39/13 40/11
per [1] 32/6
perfectly [2] 3/6 4/5
perform [1] 3/21
performance [6]
60/12 61/15 61/24
(37) observations - performance
Pp
performance... [3]
62/8 62/12 87/4
performing [4] 43/17
86/23 86/24 87/2
perhaps [12] 15/4
25/16 28/15 37/1 42/8
54/4 62/14 63/1 65/4
66/2 75/15 94/3
period [6] 16/18
24/14 26/18 60/14
63/5 73/25
periodicity [1] 61/16
periods [1] 53/6
Perkins [7] 6/3 6/13
8/9 80/7 80/12 80/17
80/22
permit [2] 93/19
96/19
perpetuating [1]
39/22
persist [1] 72/9
person [10] 14/7
14/12 14/15 14/20
45/3 60/24 65/8 65/15)
68/13 84/18
personal [8] 20/1
28/19 32/24 42/15
45/13 67/17 68/3
68/11
personally [2] 68/9
77124
perspective [1] 3/8
persuaded [1] 97/23
Peter [3] 91/13 91/15
91/24
PFis [4] 38/18
phase [11] 21/8
55/18 75/11 78/17
91/4 91/9 92/4 92/6
95/6 95/7 95/9
Phase 2 [1] 55/18
Phase 3 [1] 91/4
Phase 4 [1] 91/9
Phase 5 [1] 92/4
Phase 7 [3] 75/11
78/17 92/6
phases [7] 89/15
90/8 90/16 90/18
91/12 95/17 96/18
Phases 5 [1] 91/12
Philippa [4] 91/7
Phoenix [1] 78/23
phrase [1] 21/9
physically [1] 6/21
picked [1] 87/4
picture [2] 29/13
89/16
piece [6] 7/7 7/9
14/24 16/19 17/4
20/10
pieces [1] 31/12
pitiful [1] 19/9
place [6] 9/17 11/2
26/18 43/5 54/6 68/15
places [1] 67/6
plan [1] 8/25
play [1] 25/6
please [33] 5/9 8/18
9/22 9/24 11/14 12/8
12/18 13/12 17/25
25/16 25/18 30/11
39/1 39/2 50/9 51/9
64/4 64/6 65/7 82/18
90/8 90/21 90/22 91/4
91/9 91/10 91/19
91/22 92/5 92/6 92/13
92/18 94/2
pleased [1] 28/15
pm [2] 94/21 98/4
POCL [2] 56/24 57/6
point [11] 10/3 15/23
45/1 46/2 46/6 47/18
48/13 48/19 54/14
67/24 87/19
points [1] 19/19
POL [20] 13/20 32/10
32/12 39/9 57/2 57/8
57/12 57/16 57/17
57/17 57/23 57/24
58/5 59/1 59/3 59/4
59/18 84/8 84/22 86/6
POL's [2] 10/16
39/22
POL00108065 [1]
8/13
POL00108087 [1]
9/22
POL00368926 [1]
13/13
POL00381633 [1]
11/14
POL00411940 [1]
21/11
policies [6] 46/19
52/25 53/1 53/2 53/4
72/16
policy [1] 53/7
pool [2] 89/17 89/18
poor [1] 74/24
poorly [1] 43/17
portfolio [7] 59/20
60/5 63/8 63/25 64/3
67/17 68/7
position [4] 10/17
20/1 65/12 65/15
positioned [1] 5/4
positive [2] 22/4
30/22
possibility [3] 43/6
52/23 76/17
possible [5] 22/16
22/22 29/22 81/17
89/16
possibly [1] 65/22
post [58] 20/2 20/21
24/18 24/23 25/3
26/20 27/4 27/17 28/8
29/4 29/7 29/8 29/18
31/25 32/13 35/3 37/1
37/21 37/25 40/10
44/22 45/8 45/9 45/10
45/20 46/5 48/9 48/18
49/22 55/21 56/24
57/2 57/7 57/9 59/13
60/8 71/12 71/17
72/23 75/4 75/19
75/24 76/3 76/5 76/10)
76/15 79/1 79/9 81/3
81/7 82/9 83/18 83/23
88/3 88/3 88/7 97/4
97/15
post-conviction [1]
97/15
post-dated [1] 88/3
postmaster [11]
71/12 76/9 78/15
78/18 79/2 79/9 79/11
79/12 79/13 81/1 81/7
postmasters [4] 59/2
71/21 74/12 74/17
posts [1] 67/4
potentially [2] 3/9
87/20
PowerPoint [1] 90/9
powers [2] 76/2 77/4
practical [1] 16/11
practice [15] 3/8
15/15 15/18 16/2
34/10 34/13 34/15
35/4 36/7 46/19 52/18
52/20 53/5 58/12
59/21
practices [1] 72/16
practising [7] 33/11
33/14 34/5 34/17
34/18 35/11 35/20
practitioner [1] 77/14]
pre [4] 26/22 27/8
41/10 88/2
pre-2000 [4] 41/10
pre-split [2] 26/22
27/8
precise [1] 88/1
precisely [2] 66/20
69/6
prefer [2] 77/24 79/2
prepared [1] 15/25
present [5] 6/22
32/19 32/25 77/11
90/11
presentation [1] 90/9
presented [2] 8/11
81/25
presently [1] 89/12
preserved [1] 52/16
pressure [2] 23/2
25/7
pressures [1] 24/23
presume [1] 93/10
pretty [1] 27/8
previous [4] 65/23
77/17 89/15 90/17
previously [2] 9/9
89/14
principle [5] 34/16
52/17 66/24 69/10
80/12
principles [22] 25/16
25/18 25/23 26/10
26/14 26/16 27/3 28/2
28/10 28/16 28/21
29/16 29/20 29/24
30/7 48/14 48/22 49/3,
50/12 50/20 51/1 78/4,
prior [2] 56/23 59/6
private [14] 27/18
29/4 29/14 29/17
38/10 48/9 58/21
58/21 58/23 68/22
69/2 69/10 69/15
70/14
private/Government
[1] 48/9
private/public [1]
58/21
privilege [3] 36/9
36/19 37/11
privileged [4] 36/8
36/14 36/18 37/13
proactive [3] 85/3
85/7 85/15
proactivity [1] 85/9
probably [4] 53/10
60/14 65/6 88/9
problem [8] 1/13
1/20 1/24 1/24 1/25
3/16 53/25 63/4
problematic [1]
22/13
problems [6] 1/6
39/14 54/22 55/5
55/17 76/16
procedure [1] 42/17
process [18] 8/22
8/24 9/4 10/9 12/13
13/9 14/23 17/5 20/16
31/19 43/15 47/8
47/14 50/13 53/7
54/10 62/21 89/8
processes [3] 54/1
54/17 54/18
produce [2] 88/23
97/24
produced [2] 20/15
20/16
producing [1] 23/12
product [1] 82/2
profession [2] 85/11
85/17
professional [2] 61/7
86/11
professor [6] 44/12
44/18 46/17 46/25
91/22 92/11
Professor Hodges
[2] 46/17 46/25
profile [1] 60/2
project [2] 13/25
78/23
promise [1] 51/18
proper [4] 19/22
51/15 54/6 79/18
properly [9] 8/7 59/5
67/18 68/13 68/24
70/16 70/17 71/23
775
proportion [1] 32/7
propose [1] 69/23
proposition [1] 85/1
propre [1] 20/20
prosecuted [3] 38/6
59/3 87/21
prosecuting [3] 9/1
38/7 59/11
prosecution [4] 38/8
40/16 80/11 88/4
prosecutions [14]
3/17 5/21 9/5 10/10
10/17 12/15 38/6
57/11 58/20 58/20
58/23 59/2 59/5 87/18
prosecutor [2] 57/18
58/24
prosecutorial [2]
10/12 19/13
prospects [1] 42/13
protect [2] 4/14
57/19
protection [3] 42/23
42/25 42/25
protocols [1] 30/21
protracted [1] 73/8
provide [10] 7/2 8/22
9/8 23/15 29/7 29/9
47/15 66/16 86/17
88/8
provided [3] 9/9
30/21 90/19
provides [2] 23/20
46/8
providing [4] 46/23
83/9 87/8 94/20
proxy [1] 66/1
public [25] 1/16 27/1
28/18 29/7 41/11
42/14 42/18 42/25
43/16 58/21 58/24
68/21 68/23 69/2
69/10 69/15 70/2 70/9I
70/13 74/13 74/17
75/19 76/9 78/7 89/25
publication [2] 46/23
81/2
publications [1] 97/2
publicly [2] 64/22
96/9
publicly-listed [1]
64/22
(88) performance... - publicly-listed
P
published [1] 81/24
purpose [3] 16/12
29/6 29/14
purposes [2] 7/2
65/10
pursued [2] 6/6 7/25
pursuit [1] 92/22
put [9] 26/5 75/3 77/6
78/8 78/14 80/25
88/13 88/22 96/24
puts [1] 50/5
putting [1] 68/5
Q
QC [4] 8/21 8/22 10/8
12/12
qualification [1] 34/5
queries [3] 8/15 8/17
39/13
question [38] 6/7
6/17 10/22 16/16
18/13 25/7 25/12
27/11 31/8 31/14
32/11 32/22 33/7
35/12 37/15 39/6 49/4
49/6 49/17 49/20 50/1
52/22 60/19 60/21
61/2 61/4 66/15 74/14
75/21 80/9 80/15
80/18 80/19 81/13
82/2 83/18 84/19
84/21
Questioned [10] 2/21
23/6 51/17 71/1 79/23
99/6 99/8 99/10 99/12
99/14
questioning [1]
18/21
questions [22] 10/21
21/2 25/22 30/12
30/23 31/2 31/5 31/6
31/20 35/7 36/4 62/25)
71/10 71/15 75/25
79/15 79/24 80/1 80/2
80/5 87/13 88/18
quick [2] 25/15 73/9
quickly [2] 15/16
73/11
quiet [1] 62/16
quite [12] 7/12 11/5
22/12 22/20 27/2
36/13 36/17 43/25
59/15 67/16 71/7
73/11
quote [7] 41/14 41/20)
41/20 42/5 43/12
44/11 46/17
R
Rachel [1] 92/14
raised [3] 15/1 78/20
97/4
raising [1] 62/14
ramifications [1]
6/10
range [3] 24/3 71/24
75/5
ranging [1] 83/10
rather [10] 6/8 9/14
19/20 39/13 49/12
68/2 70/12 77/1 90/13
97/11
rationale [1] 9/15
re [5] 10/17 11/19
11/24 12/3 13/20
re-sent [2] 11/19
11/24
reaching [1] 2/25
read [19] 5/11 62/17
64/25 89/23 90/2 90/6
90/12 90/15 90/22
91/5 91/9 92/6 92/17
93/12 93/13 94/6
94/12 97/9 97/11
reading [2] 90/13
90/14
reads [1] 64/17
real [6] 47/21 53/3
74/8 74/10 74/15
77/22
really [16] 2/18 8/16
20/19 21/22 32/3
45/10 45/17 45/19
49/1 53/3 56/21 57/22
59/10 62/1 73/19 97/2
realms [1] 68/10
reappointment [1]
68/1
reason [9] 3/6 23/21
36/7 36/15 37/14
76/22 85/9 85/14
96/22
reasonable [5] 17/8
17/9 50/19 86/8 87/12
reasoning [1] 75/17
reasons [2] 71/18
96/15
reassurance [1]
46/23
reassure [1] 12/6
rebuild [1] 76/3
recall [6] 7/12 7/14
21/8 21/8 63/7 96/13
received [3] 78/24
87/6 87/7
recent [4] 64/12
75/10 78/13 79/4
recognised [1] 67/20
recommend [7]
32/17 32/18 32/19
32/19 32/20 64/20
65/2
recommendation [5]
9/2 30/1 30/2 32/20
32/23
recommendations
[1] 46/18
record [12] 7/3 89/23
90/2 90/6 90/12 90/22
91/5 91/10 92/7 92/17,
93/12 93/13
recorded [1] 1/11
recruited [2] 59/25
60/3
recruitment [5] 60/18}
62/21 63/1 63/20 64/1
red [3] 8/15 9/12
62/14
reduce [1] 52/23
REF [1] 9/1
refer [1] 22/14
reference [18] 5/11
7/2 7/14 8/2 10/15
12/16 13/10 13/18
15/8 15/10 15/21 16/2
16/4 16/7 17/23 29/20}
30/11 92/23
referenced [3] 7/16
7/19 35/1
references [2] 7/21
7122
referred [2] 39/17
40/8
referring [4] 22/14
38/5 40/1 40/14
reflect [2] 8/12 88/5
reflecting [1] 28/16
reflection [1] 18/15
reflects [1] 90/17
reframe [1] 19/10
regard [17] 9/4 11/10
16/22 27/3 31/8 37/12I
49/7 52/18 54/11
57/22 59/10 61/12
61/14 62/3 63/19
74/22 83/22
regarded [1] 53/2
regarding [7] 12/3
12/14 12/19 37/6
37/11 46/10 46/13
regards [1] 56/5
regime [1] 44/17
register [1] 53/21
registers [4] 53/19
54/2 54/5 54/7
regular [4] 80/8
80/10 80/16 80/20
regulation [2] 46/11
69/23
regulations [1] 23/15
regulators [1] 35/1
regulatory [6] 23/14
33/24 33/25 34/14
44/16 83/14
rejoin [1] 1/14
relate [2] 32/4 50/14
related [2] 38/7 81/22
relation [10] 34/10
34/15 37/5 56/4 67/2
78/10 78/12 81/15
87/20 93/7
relationship [5]
38/16 41/24 44/14
73/11 76/23
relationships [2]
36/1 38/20
relatively [1] 64/12
relaxed [1] 62/7
relevant [7] 14/8
35/10 37/17 53/24
84/19 84/20 90/19
relies [1] 69/8
remain [1] 59/12
remained [1] 57/1
remarkable [1] 95/8
remember [1] 21/5
remind [1] 89/7
removal [1] 60/10
remove [1] 21/14
renewed [1] 53/5
repeat [2] 6/7 97/21
repeating [1] 24/22
rephrase [1] 49/20
report [45] 5/10 7/7
13/16 14/1 14/3 14/7
14/12 14/18 15/20
15/25 16/24 17/1
17/24 18/8 19/17
20/15 24/16 25/19
25/20 30/24 31/3 39/1
42/8 44/20 45/2 45/3
45/12 47/25 47/25
48/16 54/20 60/17
60/18 71/25 72/3 75/2
76/21 80/9 80/11 81/2
81/15 81/23 82/1
82/10 97/25
Report 4 [1] 72/3
reported [1] 57/9
reporting [5] 13/20
44/14 46/23 58/24
59/15
reports [9] 7/15
23/12 47/24 71/14
71/16 72/21 77/16
77/19 97/5
represent [1] 23/8
representation [1]
75/6
representative [2]
75/5 79/11
representatives [3]
2/14 96/11 96/16
represented [1] 2/12
represents [1] 66/2
reputation [3] 4/3
4/14 57/20
request [2] 96/13
97/18
requests [3] 78/21
78/22 89/17
require [1] 45/14
required [5] 27/6
32/2 41/4 46/17 77/15)
requirement [8]
31/24 33/16 43/7 50/2
58/2 58/18 60/17 67/7I
requirements [5]
29/6 33/24 34/15 62/3
63/21
requires [2] 68/25
72/11
researches [2] 21/3
56/16
resent [2] 9/23 11/25
reserved [3] 34/20
34/23 35/16
resolution [1] 19/12
resolved [1] 3/10
Resources [1] 46/21
respect [1] 96/1
responded [1] 88/15
response [2] 13/17
26/24
responsibilities [6]
45/18 69/4 69/5 78/1
82/25 84/16
responsibility [21]
19/7 21/24 21/25
45/15 46/4 52/14 56/5)
56/7 57/14 59/9 59/10
68/15 68/18 76/19
83/6 84/6 84/10 84/11
84/12 84/16 85/7
responsible [6]
18/19 18/20 18/21
83/2 84/18 86/2
restoring [1] 76/9
result [3] 3/7 40/10
78/21
results [1] 40/16
resume [1] 93/1
retirement [1] 59/20
reveal [1] 42/15
revealed [1] 72/6
review [14] 7/8 8/25
9/4 10/5 10/9 10/15
12/13 12/17 13/9
13/10 18/17 53/8
70/19 80/11
reviewed [1] 53/5
revolving [4] 73/24
74/1 74/2 74/6
Richard [2] 91/17
92/16
right [25] 2/19 3/7 6/1I
13/12 14/12 16/14
17/12 17/13 26/7 26/8}
35/8 35/12 42/3 42/21
42/23 63/18 64/23
75/16 75/16 78/2
83/22 89/9 89/10
91/21 91/24
Right-hand [1] 26/8
rights [1] 41/12
risk [35] 3/7 3/17
3/22 4/10 4/25 8/11
13/23 14/13 15/12
15/15 16/21 19/14
(39) published - risk
R
risk... [23] 48/20 49/2
52/16 52/18 53/16
53/17 53/19 54/2 54/4
54/5 54/7 54/9 54/10
54/16 54/17 54/20
54/24 54/25 55/1
75/25 83/3 83/7 84/7
risks [12] 3/13 53/20
53/21 53/24 71/22
84/9 84/23 85/3 85/10
85/11 85/15 85/17
RMG [7] 57/2 57/8
57/11 57/16 57/24
58/1 59/18
Robert [3] 17/18
90/25 91/17
Roberts [1] 92/14
Rod [1] 92/16
Rodric [3] 7/4 7/5
13/14
role [38] 2/24 17/17
17/20 18/15 19/1 29/4
39/22 41/22 48/13
51/25 52/8 56/3 57/1
58/8 60/12 60/22 61/4
61/5 61/7 61/8 61/15
62/2 63/23 63/24 64/2
65/13 65/16 70/10
75/7 78/15 80/5 82/18
82/25 83/21 83/24
85/20 86/16 87/3
roles [2] 78/23 86/23
Rolfe [4] 91/23
rollout [3] 52/6 55/5
55/17
rolls [4] 64/21
room [3] 1/17 90/5
95/24
Ross [1] 92/8
roughly [1] 96/24
route [6] 43/15 43/18
44/25 45/7 45/16 46/9)
routes [4] 46/7 46/20
46/22 79/10
Royal [2] 56/14 57/24
rule [3] 22/7 22/11
89/17
Rule 9 [1] 89/17
rules [1] 83/14
run [3] 38/2 38/9 95/7I
running [4] 18/20
46/5 51/20 58/10
Russell [1] 91/6
Ss
safe [2] 14/6 14/11
saga [2] 18/12 19/9
said [16] 21/6 27/21
28/13 33/4 37/13
44/13 48/16 51/19
55/16 56/23 58/8 59/7
59/7 73/9 78/19 83/13,
Sajid [1] 91/20
Sam [1] 23/8
same [11] 16/16
24/13 24/14 24/18
24/25 30/10 34/13
44/21 81/23 96/24
97/13
SANDRA [25] 1/3
2/23 10/18 12/18
23/11 23/22 25/22
30/3 31/20 31/22
36/10 36/13 39/2
45/21 51/23 54/1
59/21 61/1 61/23
66/23 67/12 71/9
87/19 88/20 99/2
Sandra's [1] 47/18
Sarah [2] 92/7 92/10
satisfactory [1]
78/24
saw [3] 36/13 58/2
82/5
say [55] 3/5 4/18 6/5
6/8 16/8 18/1 21/19
22/8 22/8 27/5 27/15
28/15 28/24 31/19
33/12 34/8 35/2 38/23
49/24 49/25 50/23
52/21 57/21 58/6
58/18 58/19 61/23
63/6 63/15 63/19
67/12 67/17 69/24
70/8 71/25 72/2 72/20
72/21 74/4 75/13
75/14 81/19 83/22
85/25 90/1 92/20
93/11 94/19 95/2 95/4
95/5 95/24 96/2 96/5
97/17
saying [9] 7/5 7/18
14/18 20/5 27/13
35/17 44/18 47/1
82/11
says [5] 41/22 53/12
83/1 83/5 96/22
scandal [2] 24/6 37/2
Scarrabelotti [1]
92/15
schedule [1] 26/10
scholarship [1]
17/18
scope [1] 45/11
screen [5] 5/13 39/3
90/8 95/14 96/3
screens [1] 25/21
scroll [6] 8/14 8/18
9/25 12/8 13/15 65/4
searching [1] 3/21
second [28] 5/10
12/4 12/9 19/16 24/15)
39/1 55/10 71/14
71/16 71/25 80/4 80/8)
80/11 81/1 81/4 81/15)
81/23 82/1 82/10
82/23 83/5 84/5 85/20
91/24 92/1 92/8 92/10)
92/16
secondly [2] 51/25
81/6
Secretariat [1] 83/3
Secretaries [1] 27/22
secretary [16] 27/21
29/22 29/25 30/1 52/1
56/2 56/4 56/8 56/10
56/14 56/23 57/1 57/2
57/8 57/15 58/9
section [1] 71/25
sector [7] 68/21
68/22 68/23 69/2 69/2
70/2 70/9
Security [1] 83/4
see [29] 2/2 8/14
9/23 12/19 12/21 13/7
13/16 20/13 20/17
21/13 26/10 28/12
37/14 42/13 48/2 48/7
50/6 51/16 53/22
64/10 66/11 68/25
69/14 71/3 71/6 79/20
97/22 97/24 98/1
seek [3] 90/18 92/21
97/17
seeking [2] 24/19
31/4
seem [5] 29/15 37/18
38/3 78/21 87/17
Seema [2] 10/19
11/10
seemed [3] 38/14
39/8 84/19
seems [5] 5/21 6/14
37/8 45/22 71/18
seen [22] 7/1 8/13
13/3 13/6 15/21 18/12
19/2 19/25 29/18
29/19 29/20 36/17
36/21 36/22 36/23
38/20 60/8 64/6 64/8
72/11 78/17 82/19
seized [1] 8/7
self [5] 3/5 4/7 44/21
46/13 82/16
self-employed [1]
46/13
self-evidently [1]
82/16
self-interest [2] 3/5
Al7
self-same [1] 44/21
selfish [1] 3/6
selfishly [1] 4/1
selflessness [2]
19/21 26/12
send [1] 88/6
senior [9] 4/12 5/1
16/1 71/19 73/22 79/3
81/5 81/8 87/2
sense [5] 3/15 22/17
48/24 68/18 70/2
sent [7] 6/2 9/23
11/19 11/24 13/18
89/17 93/16
sentencing [1] 89/8
separation [4] 37/24
38/10 57/10 59/6
September [9] 8/21
9/24 10/11 10/24
11/16 11/19 11/24
13/13 13/17
series [1] 90/7
serious [1] 8/11
seriously [3] 4/22
72/10 72/13
serve [2] 74/13 74/17
service [2] 29/8
64/17
services [4] 29/9
63/20 70/6 77/18
serving [1] 23/9
session [2] 8/23
97/22
set [7] 26/11 66/24
77/12 78/22 80/4
83/10 86/16
sets [3] 24/12 24/12
80/1
setting [3] 11/22
24/17 44/16
seven [1] 50/20
seventh [1] 92/15
several [1] 78/22
shall [2] 23/2 64/15
share [2] 8/10 81/18
shared [4] 57/11
81/14 81/19 82/4
shareholder [2]
27/20 66/1
Shareholders [1]
64/17
sharing [2] 55/9
81/12
she [7] 6/24 21/6
21/6 21/20 61/23
69/24 84/14
she'll [1] 61/24
shelf [1] 53/4
ShEx [4] 28/6 28/9
28/12 28/23
ship [4] 75/18
short [3] 51/13 73/13
83/11
shortly [3] 89/24 97/7I
97/12
should [63] 2/15 6/18)
13/16 14/1 15/10
15/10 16/20 16/23
16/25 17/1 17/8 17/9
18/9 19/19 22/15 27/7
28/10 28/15 29/7
32/13 32/15 37/11
42/19 42/21 46/4 48/8
49/6 49/21 49/23
50/21 51/1 51/2 52/12
52/19 52/19 53/5
53/22 58/2 66/12
66/25 67/13 67/19
68/6 69/1 69/5 69/9
69/11 69/12 69/13
69/14 69/20 70/9
80/13 80/22 83/22
85/2 85/7 86/12 90/1
92/20 94/3 95/10
95/24
shouldn't [1] 66/9
show [1] 19/18
showing [1] 30/25
shows [2] 43/13 66/5
side [5] 26/5 26/8
28/17 43/21 79/18
sides [3] 26/4 26/9
43/13
Siema [1] 90/23
sight [12] 12/4 19/16
24/15 51/15 55/10
71/4 80/11 81/1 81/4
81/23 82/1 82/10
sighted [4] 13/8
sign [3] 10/9 12/13
13/9
sign-off [1] 13/9
significant [2] 41/1
41/3
silence [2] 33/3 33/3
siloed [1] 6/21
similar [2] 55/5 77/1
Simon [6] 36/6 36/15
37/2 37/12 91/13
92/12
simply [5] 31/3 49/25
54/13 58/23 93/11
since [4] 23/2 42/22
42/24 87/14
Singh [1] 24/7
single [1] 27/20
sir [35] 1/15 2/7 2/20
2/22 5/17 16/4 17/13
23/1 23/7 45/24 51/10)
51/19 70/23 71/2 75/9
75/17 88/18 89/12
90/6 90/10 91/13
91/20 91/22 92/8
92/11 93/1 93/6 93/25
94/6 94/14 94/23
94/25 95/1 98/3 99/18
Sir Wyn [2] 16/4
45/24
sit [3] 24/4 53/1 89/4
situation [4] 22/6
25/24 28/1 45/21
skedaddle [1] 89/4
slide [4] 90/11 90/21
91/4 91/9
slightly [2] 74/25
80/19
small [1] 29/11
smattering [1] 93/22
(40) risk... - smattering
s
Smith [1] 91/7
smoothly [1] 95/7
so [126]
social [3] 29/5 29/14
49/9
solicitors [1] 34/18
solved [1] 1/13
solving [3] 76/17
83/8 85/21
some [22] 6/19 7/22
8/17 15/6 19/15 25/16
30/22 32/8 37/2 38/11
63/21 64/17 68/7
75/20 78/3 78/11
79/24 85/6 87/22
89/14 93/8 95/22
somebody [3] 3/19
62/14 62/15
someone [9] 23/23
23/23 23/24 53/12
62/1 63/17 63/22
67/16 77/17
someone's [1] 44/19
something [21]
35/10 36/6 40/25
42/14 42/16 43/16
47/20 50/6 53/11
63/25 74/5 75/12
75/18 75/23 76/7
77/10 77/21 78/9
85/23 86/24 87/20
sometimes [3] 32/5
61/17 90/15
somewhat [1] 20/7
Sophie [1] 92/3
sorry [11] 1/5 2/16
6/7 16/15 31/17 49/15
50/3 51/10 60/1 71/8
85/13
sort [7] 4/4 20/5
26/17 37/10 48/21
60/11 74/19
sorted [1] 1/20
sought [1] 31/7
sound [1] 97/11
source [1] 82/7
speak [13] 14/6
21/23 42/4 42/24 43/6
43/24 47/4 47/4 47/12
47/13 50/6 77/17 89/4)
speaking [2] 10/24
44/7
spec [1] 88/10
special [3] 34/7 85/6
95/20
specialist [2] 18/21
66/17
specific [5] 31/8 32/9
51/25 63/21 97/14
specifically [1] 27/6
specification [2]
88/11 88/14
specifics [3] 28/24
48/12 57/23
spectacle [1] 19/23
speculate [1] 28/14
spending [1] 70/5
spent [2] 31/3 86/10
spirit [1] 51/4
split [4] 26/22 27/8
27/17 29/4
spoke [3] 62/20
76/25 81/11
spoken [1] 42/20
spotlight [1] 77/7
SRA [1] 34/1
staff [1] 46/24
stage [7] 29/3 30/8
48/25 61/3 64/1 70/13
95/4
stakeholders [2]
71/20 72/7
stand [1] 75/15
standard [1] 48/6
standards [4] 4/1
26/12 31/1 33/25
start [3] 11/15 32/10
32/12
starts [1] 11/7
state [7] 27/21 27/22
28/8 29/15 29/22
29/25 30/1
statement [23] 31/13
31/14 66/4 75/10
78/19 86/3 86/5 89/11
91/10 91/24 92/1 92/8)
92/9 92/10 92/15
92/16 94/12 94/21
95/1 96/12 96/20
99/16 99/18
statements [20]
30/16 31/9 78/16
89/22 89/24 90/1 90/7)
90/11 90/14 90/16
90/22 91/1 91/2 91/5
92/7 92/23 93/8 93/22
94/5 96/21
status [1] 33/10
statutory [2] 46/11
67/13
Staunton [1] 60/10
stay [4] 44/10 89/6
89/7 89/8
stays [1] 57/7
steady [1] 75/18
steal [2] 17/7 17/13
steer [2] 8/22 8/25
steering [4] 9/15
9/17 11/2 11/22
Stein [8] 2/9 22/24
23/5 23/6 23/8 50/10
51/11 99/8
Stent [1] 92/15
step [2] 8/23 48/11
steps [1] 57/18
STEWARD [21] 1/4
2/23 7/11 10/18 12/18
23/11 25/22 31/17
33/2 36/10 39/2 44/8
46/6 46/15 51/23 54/2
61/22 70/12 71/9
88/20 99/4
stick [3] 22/21 55/25
56/1
still [5] 29/5 71/7
79/10 89/2 90/14
stood [1] 32/21
stop [4] 16/15 23/3
61/1 97/8
stopped [1] 62/24
stories [4] 54/14
54/14 54/14 54/21
strategic [3] 66/17
83/8 85/21
strategy [3] 4/25
75/24 84/13
strength [1] 43/6
strengthened [1]
18/11
stress [1] 46/18
strike [2] 20/4 87/16
striking [1] 50/18
strong [8] 36/11 46/3
47/1 47/3 59/15 70/2
72/8 73/4
strongly [2] 41/3
46/4
structure [10] 26/19
29/2 38/3 58/4 76/24
77/21 81/17 81/21
82/3 85/25
structures [3] 49/19
54/6 72/15
subject [4] 15/23
18/9 36/8 77/23
submission [1] 94/10]
submissions [9] 93/2)
94/7 94/7 94/10 96/6
96/7 96/17 97/14
97/19
subpostmasters [6]
23/9 23/10 23/25
39/10 59/2 71/11
subsequent [1] 13/3
subsidiary [1] 57/24
substance [2] 16/20
16/22
such [12] 3/25 15/25
36/4 36/15 37/2 48/8
57/25 60/5 71/20
79/10 89/21 90/20
sufficient [7] 55/12
66/12 66/15 69/9
69/11 69/12 69/17
suggest [2] 6/12
76/14
suggested [1] 12/25
suggests [1] 76/15
summarise [5] 17/1
72/1 75/15 75/20
97/17
summary [4] 56/22
71/14 82/24 87/8
summing [1] 50/21
summing-up [1]
50/21
supplemental [1]
91/1
supplied [1] 97/5
supplier [1] 38/19
support [6] 18/25
19/1 19/6 24/20 30/22)
49/19
supports [1] 23/18
suppose [5] 2/18
4/19 24/8 53/16 95/2
sure [9] 16/8 16/22
43/4 45/18 50/24 54/6)
68/3 74/21 76/22
surgeon [1] 43/17
surprised [9] 20/25
33/15 33/21 55/20
55/22 55/25 56/1
59/12 59/14
survival [1] 25/3
survive [1] 24/24
Susan [7] 8/16 12/1
13/13 13/16 14/2
19/24 81/10
suspect [1] 89/2
sustain [1] 73/4
sustainable [1] 29/11
sustained [1] 73/18
swift [1] 19/12
symbiotic [1] 41/24
system [8] 9/9 9/14
38/1 38/8 38/19 39/7
39/14 61/8
systematic [1] 52/24
systematically [2]
72/10 72/15
systems [3] 25/1
38/7 43/5
T
tables [1] 67/6
tainted [2] 5/20 5/23
take [30] 2/15 4/25
13/19 15/6 18/13
25/18 30/10 31/6 42/6
42/16 43/19 45/15
45/25 46/2 47/17 51/71
51/7 51/18 53/23
55/23 56/20 56/21
62/23 63/23 66/25
68/15 72/21 73/23
78/1 83/17
taken [6] 11/21 36/19
57/18 60/9 67/14
69/19
taking [5] 52/3 57/1
63/24 68/18 72/20
talk [3] 19/5 43/23
474
talked [3] 41/12
61/13 79/7
talking [4] 24/14 44/2
46/15 61/9
Taylor [1] 92/16
team [18] 21/16
21/21 21/24 22/13
22/17 44/3 70/1 81/3
81/5 81/23 82/2 82/9
83/6 84/17 84/18 86/1
87/2 95/11
Teams [1] 83/4
technical [1] 26/23
tell [5] 10/23 27/7
48/3 54/15 67/11
ten [1] 97/12
tend [1] 54/15
tension [1] 95/24
tenure [1] 85/1
term [6] 17/24 62/9
73/14 75/14 75/18
76/9
terms [24] 10/15
12/16 13/10 13/18
15/7 15/10 15/21 16/2I
16/4 16/7 18/16 18/17)
28/18 35/4 43/2 43/3
49/25 51/6 54/21
55/19 58/9 62/8 75/1
92/23
test [3] 8/8 14/5
70/15
than [13] 6/8 9/14
19/20 37/3 39/13
51/19 62/6 63/2 65/8
80/19 89/18 90/13
97/11
thank [39] 1/15 2/2
2/20 2/22 5/14 5/17
10/1 17/15 23/4 23/7
23/11 26/3 50/9 50/10
51/3 56/1 59/16 64/4
70/23 70/24 71/2
79/15 82/17 84/21
87/13 87/25 88/19
89/1 90/10 91/4 92/20
93/6 93/25 94/1 94/17
94/23 95/16 98/1 98/3
thanks [5] 8/16 12/1
51/5 95/11 97/21
that [535]
that I [1] 88/13
that's [34] 8/3 16/17
18/13 23/17 26/7 26/9)
27/13 32/22 35/12
38/9 44/4 47/18 51/22)
54/3 57/3 57/16 62/23
64/11 66/18 67/21
68/2 68/10 68/17
70/11 70/23 74/23
76/18 79/4 83/22
84/19 90/23 91/25
92/8 96/22
their [67] 3/13 4/10
(41) Smith - their
T
their... [65] 5/2 6/5
18/20 18/25 19/4 20/1
20/15 20/24 21/21
21/23 21/23 21/24
22/2 24/16 24/16 27/4
27/12 27/22 30/7 30/7
30/15 32/4 34/15 35/1
35/15 42/12 42/13
42/13 58/5 58/7 61/15)
63/24 63/25 64/2 64/3}
64/3 66/4 66/5 68/7
68/13 68/24 69/18
69/19 70/16 74/20
77/15 78/8 78/15
78/16 81/2 83/19
84/15 85/7 85/11
85/17 86/5 86/7 86/10
87/3 87/9 89/19 89/22
89/23 90/12 95/22
them [36] 4/14 13/6
15/22 20/24 21/15
24/10 26/25 27/7 28/9
28/17 31/7 32/8 42/15)
47/5 47/10 52/3 52/23)
53/22 53/23 62/3
68/25 76/17 77/7 79/5
79/20 80/4 84/4 84/9
84/23 86/14 86/24
88/7 90/3 93/13 96/19
96/24
theme [2] 20/23
76/13
themselves [6] 22/24
33/23 45/15 76/16
95/25 96/7
then [58] 1/14 2/9
2/11 2/11 2/14 4/22
6/17 8/18 9/6 9/12
9/23 10/7 11/8 11/12
11/13 11/20 11/23
12/2 12/5 15/20 16/9
16/15 16/22 17/7 24/9)
28/6 29/1 29/3 32/11
32/11 39/8 40/8 43/18
45/2 48/20 52/6 52/8
53/22 58/8 61/14 62/2
62/9 65/1 66/11 66/24)
67/21 68/17 69/9
71/14 72/14 75/20
80/4 83/5 86/16 89/10
93/23 95/2 97/1
there [130]
there's [10] 9/18 14/4
16/11 40/4 40/9 51/20
60/23 64/11 70/6
91/12
therefore [8] 2/11
3/20 5/7 5/20 26/19
33/15 77/6 88/2
these [23] 8/19 9/10
24/23 26/13 26/16
27/2 28/16 30/7 30/23}
31/4 31/6 31/20 35/25
40/14 40/24 41/16
45/24 76/16 77/5
86/23 91/12 93/12
95/17
they [110]
they'd [1] 16/8
they'll [1] 74/4
they're [10] 24/15
24/16 24/18 26/11
32/1 50/23 53/21
53/24 68/1 77/15
they've [2] 29/8
63/23
thing [7] 53/14 58/5
69/3 75/16 78/2 94/2
96/5
things [20] 4/13 4/22
10/16 11/22 13/3
17/10 24/3 43/23
43/25 44/3 44/3 48/5
52/22 70/4 73/14 75/2
76/11 76/21 77/2 77/5)
think [102]
thinking [6] 4/2 39/16
62/22 62/25 75/17
78/9
third [4] 38/2 38/9
86/16 92/9
thirdly [2] 52/1 81/8
this [114]
Thomas [1] 92/7
Thompson [2] 90/25
92/3
those [43] 1/9 1/16
7/15 15/20 17/10
19/19 25/2 25/2 26/9
26/25 28/9 29/19
29/23 43/25 46/5
48/23 48/25 49/7
50/20 50/25 53/4 54/5
54/7 57/19 59/1 59/5
59/23 69/4 74/18
77/18 78/8 78/18
79/12 79/15 81/13
84/6 89/18 90/25 93/9
93/18 96/6 97/13
97/21
though [6] 20/6 29/5
29/10 56/22 84/2
90/17
thought [5] 28/17
28/20 37/7 75/11
96/19
threats [2] 3/8 3/10
three [7] 51/23 53/7
61/17 65/14 70/20
84/5 95/21
three years [1] 61/17
through [12] 23/12
28/22 29/2 31/4 38/20
40/3 40/5 42/17 52/13
70/19 72/15 87/4
throughout [2] 19/8
26/21
thunder [1] 17/8
Thurs [1] 13/22
thwarted [1] 96/14
ticked [1] 53/2
tier [1] 22/18
Tim [4] 92/2
time [45] 16/18 16/25
22/21 23/2 24/14
24/14 24/18 24/25
26/18 26/20 27/22
29/3 31/6 38/10 44/11
51/21 52/13 57/9
60/20 60/22 60/25
62/1 62/5 62/5 62/6
62/19 66/12 66/16
66/19 67/1 67/15
67/18 68/4 68/5 68/25)
69/9 69/11 69/14
69/17 70/5 70/10
70/17 72/12 75/16
94/20
timely [2] 83/9 86/18
times [2] 30/6 57/9
timescales [1] 88/23
timing [2] 12/4 51/7
today [6] 2/4 2/6
45/10 45/22 83/13
92/21
together [4] 19/18
76/5 77/5 96/25
told [4] 8/5 26/25
27/6 39/12
Tom [1] 92/4
Tony [1] 91/25
too [1] 68/2
took [2] 9/17 11/2
top [5] 11/15 28/5
44/6 62/1 65/7
topic [4] 31/23 47/22
78/10 97/15
topics [1] 74/25
towards [3] 10/1
38/12 59/20
track [1] 18/7
Tracy [1] 90/24
trail [2] 14/25 14/25
training [3] 52/24
61/6 61/13
transcribes [1] 95/14
transcript [2] 1/18
19
transmitted [1] 16/20
transparency [2]
76/1 77/3
transparent [1] 71/23}
travel [1] 73/17
treat [1] 90/21
treated [3] 71/20
89/23 96/1
treats [1] 72/6
triangular [1] 44/14
tribute [1] 95/20
tried [2] 32/3 78/13
true [2] 23/17 40/22
trust [2] 40/23 76/3
truth [1] 48/3
try [6] 1/7 8/6 24/19
40/22 43/4 53/15
trying [6] 6/12 21/16
22/17 22/18 27/25
30/25
Tuesday [1] 11/16
tune [1] 24/20
turn [2] 52/3 74/12
turned [1] 31/16
Tweets [1] 1/16
twice [1] 53/6
two [18] 13/1 22/9
22/18 23/12 26/4 26/9
43/13 47/10 53/6
61/17 65/12 70/20
75/16 80/1 82/24 93/3}
97/1 97/3
type [1] 38/11
types [4] 30/20 34/3
34/15 54/1
U
UK [1] 71/13
UKGI [6] 28/6 28/10
28/13 28/22 64/9 75/9)
UKGI00044277 [1]
64/4
ultimately [3] 86/2
88/14 89/18
unable [1] 36/23
unaware [2] 85/12
85/18
under [4] 4/9 23/2
34/19 95/25
underdeveloped [4]
48/17 48/19 48/20
48/23
underrated [1] 72/25
understand [15] 1/6
1/17 1/24 18/10 20/24}
21/1 33/2 35/6 37/18
45/17 49/8 66/23
67/24 76/23 80/15
understandable [3]
3/14 83/9 86/17
understanding [4]
53/20 67/10 67/11
74/8
understood [4] 5/24
6/11 16/23 63/5
Underwood [2] 92/3
92/3
undoubtedly [1]
52/17
unfamiliar [1] 34/2
unfortunately [1]
75/12
unhelpful [1] 39/12
unique [2] 38/14
38/23
unitary [1] 21/25
unless [8] 46/25 47/9
67/10 72/9 84/14
86/23 94/19 97/23
unlikely [1] 5/1
unnaturally [1] 95/23
unsafe [3] 5/21 6/2
8/7
untested [1] 90/5
until [5] 5/13 57/2
57/4 57/7 98/5
unusual [4] 38/17
59/21 59/22 72/8
up [41] 2/9 2/10 2/13
2/13 2/14 4/13 4/22
5/13 11/22 13/15
22/21 24/9 28/16 29/8
39/13 39/22 42/24
43/7 43/24 44/7 47/4
47/12 47/13 50/6
50/21 57/1 63/25 64/3
65/4 67/21 67/21 68/7I
68/8 72/1 75/5 77/12
82/19 86/13 87/4
87/16 96/24
update [1] 12/3
updated [1] 25/19
updates [2] 78/23
78/24
uploaded [2] 92/24
93/17
uploads [1] 95/13
upon [10] 13/9 17/24
24/23 25/3 36/2 38/19]
63/8 64/2 74/7 88/6
urgently [1] 9/7
URNs [3] 90/12 90/13)
90/25
us [8] 2/15 8/24 14/9
14/22 26/11 31/6
59/12 87/16
use [5] 47/8 62/9
70/3 77/4 79/10
used [2] 38/8 72/18
useful [2] 16/12 18/7
uses [1] 76/2
using [2] 38/10 94/12
usually [1] 27/14
Vv
VALIDATE [1] 9/11
value [1] 50/1
values [9] 30/16 31/9
31/14 40/23 40/24
48/21 49/22 72/4
727
van [1] 24/6
various [4] 67/5 80/4
89/3 96/15
variously [1] 47/23
vary [1] 38/22
Vennells [11] 6/2
6/13 8/9 9/10 11/16
14/2 21/4 21/20 24/6
79/25 80/7
(42) their... - Vennells
Vv
Vennells' [2] 2/14
85/1
verbatim [1] 5/12
verdict [1] 2/25
verifying [1] 9/14
versus [2] 48/14
57/23
very [48] 2/23 3/19
5/17 10/2 10/22 14/24,
16/1 22/12 25/21
26/23 27/14 28/1
28/15 28/19 36/11
42/16 44/8 44/21 50/9)
51/5 53/7 53/14 54/11
56/22 58/9 59/13
59/19 60/16 66/14
66/22 68/6 68/11 73/3
73/12 74/3 75/21 79/5
82/17 83/10 86/6
87/13 89/1 89/3 89/17,
92/20 93/25 94/8 98/2
view [16] 19/16 20/15)
21/18 22/10 32/24
39/8 45/13 46/3 49/22
59/8 61/24 67/24 68/3
68/11 77/21 94/5
views [3] 61/20 79/12!
79/13
violations [1] 72/17
visiting [1] 70/6
vitally [2] 3/12 53/15
voice [3] 20/5 41/6
77/22
voices [2] 30/4 43/9
volume [1] 94/5
vote [4] 64/20 65/2
66/5 68/1
Ww
wait [1] 5/13
waiting [1] 8/20
want [41] 5/25 8/6
10/8 12/12 13/8 21/5
21/6 21/16 21/21
21/21 21/22 22/5
22/21 24/8 31/15 32/4
35/18 43/11 44/6 45/1
46/3 47/20 48/10
48/22 50/11 54/12
67/25 70/3 73/6 76/14
76/17 76/19 77/6
80/25 81/4 82/17
94/11 95/3 95/5 96/5
96/9
wanted [9] 6/20 18/7
31/18 62/24 63/22
76/6 79/6 86/7 86/9
wants [5] 23/23
23/24 23/24 73/17
94/19
Ward [1] 92/4
was [100]
wasn't [6] 6/24 35/20
48/25 59/14 59/14
60/15
watch [1] 1/9
Watt [3] 70/25 71/1
99/12
way [24] 5/24 6/10
18/19 19/10 19/24
20/14 22/3 26/9 28/5
33/2 34/13 39/7 48/7
52/25 53/4 54/3 59/11
66/10 67/21 71/19
72/6 95/19 97/9 97/20
ways [6] 68/6 73/10
73/14 76/8 76/16
78/13
we [160]
We'd [1] 4/3
we'll [4] 2/2 16/17
51/7 89/6
we're [23] 1/12 1/23
4/17 4/17 4/18 16/9
21/16 22/17 22/18
23/2 23/13 24/14
26/17 38/5 45/21 51/6
59/14 60/13 62/17
62/18 65/5 73/25
83/20
we've [20] 1/22 18/11
25/17 26/4 26/4 26/9
27/25 28/1 29/13
30/14 35/25 37/24
38/20 39/11 55/11
57/21 64/15 66/10
96/6 96/23
Webber [1] 17/19
website [4] 89/25
92/25 93/17 97/7
Wechsler [1] 92/4
Wednesday [1] 1/1
week [5] 8/20 8/21
9/16 67/19 67/21
weekend [1] 94/12
well [35] 2/4 5/7 6/19
8/6 11/12 24/3 28/9
28/19 29/25 35/4 35/6
39/4 42/12 49/5 49/9
50/16 50/18 51/6 63/4
63/22 72/16 73/25
74/18 76/18 80/19
82/16 85/12 85/17
88/5 94/1 94/15 95/2
95/5 95/25 97/2
went [3] 40/2 40/5
46/7
were [63] 3/3 3/18
3/22 4/7 4/21 4/22
7/22 8/9 10/9 12/12
13/1 15/20 19/4 19/25)
20/19 20/22 20/25
21/1 21/7 26/17 26/25
27/5 29/24 29/25
30/25 33/7 35/10
35/11 38/8 39/19
39/23 40/3 40/8 46/15
48/14 49/1 49/4 52/5
56/3 57/5 57/16 59/3
59/17 59/18 60/3
62/20 62/22 65/20
69/6 69/19 77/19 80/7
80/10 80/16 80/20
81/1 81/3 81/16 82/11
88/23 89/17 96/14
96/16
weren't [2] 29/25
87/3
what [75] 1/7 1/11
4/2 4/12 5/25 6/11 8/3)
8/4 8/4 14/23 15/20
16/2 16/17 16/18 17/1
18/7 18/11 18/23 19/2
19/4 19/20 20/13
21/19 23/14 23/25
25/17 25/21 26/9
27/13 28/13 30/14
33/4 33/5 33/5 34/11
35/17 36/22 37/1 37/5
37/7 37/14 42/9 44/18
46/16 46/25 47/17
48/6 48/21 50/14
56/22 58/15 59/9
60/11 61/4 67/10
69/24 72/2 72/20
72/23 75/14 76/6 79/6
80/13 80/22 84/2 84/3
85/25 86/6 86/8 86/9
87/11 93/7 93/19 95/3,
97/17
what's [7] 1/17 21/18
24/5 27/12 50/20
53/22 75/13
whatever [1] 43/20
when [28] 1/19 21/20
22/23 24/10 26/19
27/1 29/3 30/15 30/24
31/2 31/6 34/12 36/4
45/25 47/10 55/4 55/6
61/4 61/5 65/1 68/4
73/21 77/12 81/24
87/16 88/5 93/14
96/24
where [27] 7/5 10/11
11/7 16/7 21/6 24/15
27/13 27/24 36/23
36/24 42/7 48/25
52/12 52/22 53/11
53/20 57/7 58/13
61/25 63/22 64/19
64/23 71/3 71/5 77/23)
82/3 89/20
whereby [1] 45/21
wherever [1] 3/24
whether [33] 5/25 6/5]
10/20 16/19 27/5
27/11 28/14 30/19
30/20 33/10 34/11
34/12 35/15 35/19
49/23 50/12 50/23
58/14 60/24 61/6 67/6
67/22 67/25 68/12
69/8 69/16 69/20 70/2,
70/14 70/15 81/18
82/7 88/2
which [116]
whichever [1] 70/21
while [1] 76/10
whilst [3] 61/7 61/8
81/1
whistleblowing [25]
41/6 41/8 41/13 41/21
41/22 41/25 42/1 42/6
42/9 43/7 43/14 44/2
44/11 44/13 44/19
44/23 45/19 46/3 46/8)
46/8 46/16 47/1 47/11
47/17 62/23
Whitehall [3] 17/21
18/2 18/2
Whitehead [1] 92/4
who [45] 1/9 6/5 6/8
10/4 10/24 13/15 14/1
14/3 16/1 17/1 21/23
22/14 25/23 26/25
33/23 35/19 45/3 46/5
49/7 52/5 52/13 56/13)
59/2 59/3 59/17 64/20)
65/8 65/15 67/16 68/5)
68/24 74/4 74/18
74/22 77/17 81/3 82/9
84/25 86/23 89/8
89/18 95/6 95/13
95/14 97/13
whole [3] 24/3 51/21
75/11
whom [2] 28/2 59/19
whose [2] 14/13
95/20
why [11] 8/6 9/10
36/16 42/9 45/17
54/17 54/23 62/24
68/25 85/14 96/23
wide [3] 37/23 83/10
89/17
wide-ranging [1]
83/10
widen [1] 35/18
wider [3] 42/18 48/4
89/18
wilfully [1] 4/14
will [66] 1/10 1/11
1/13 1/19 2/18 7/2
7/11 8/22 8/23 8/24
9/2 10/1 10/12 10/14
10/15 10/20 11/12
13/20 13/21 17/8
21/14 21/15 21/23
24/24 24/24 40/21
43/22 45/22 47/5 47/8)
47/9 47/12 47/13
48/23 51/19 61/22
63/24 65/9 65/17 66/5
68/24 70/1 70/16 74/4
80/5 83/18 88/6 88/22
89/22 89/24 92/21
92/23 93/8 93/11
93/13 93/14 93/16
94/6 94/19 97/7 97/12
97/13 97/15 97/17
97/18 97/22
William [1] 91/18
Williams [6] 7/4 7/5
13/14 92/16 95/1
99/18
wish [5] 5/12 15/17
18/9 42/7 74/21
wished [1] 41/19
wishing [1] 17/7
within [30] 24/5
25/23 29/16 30/12
31/25 32/13 34/22
36/19 37/1 38/8 39/3
39/14 42/7 44/22 45/8
45/9 49/22 52/12
52/15 55/21 56/9
56/10 57/18 58/5 58/5
68/9 77/21 84/16
85/25 90/3
without [13] 1/21 7/6
A7IT 22/14 27/4 40/11
42/4 43/9 43/19 46/10
80/3 90/20 95/18
WITN10010101 [1]
82/19
witness [15] 5/20
5/23 6/2 8/7 9/21
12/14 12/20 75/10
78/16 78/19 89/24
90/7 90/14 90/22
91/10
witnesses [2] 13/1
55/15
Wolstenholme [1]
90/23
won't [5] 1/7 1/12
61/23 74/5 97/24
wondering [1] 94/8
Wood [1] 92/17
Woodley [1] 92/17
word [3] 20/11 79/13
95/3
words [12] 8/19 12/2
12/5 16/11 34/6 34/20)
38/4 47/10 49/14 72/5I
79/12 97/21
work [32] 7/9 8/6 9/3
14/24 15/7 16/10
17/18 23/11 23/24
27/25 28/5 34/20
34/22 34/25 35/15
36/1 36/1 36/2 41/20
47/9 47/17 47/21 49/9)
52/13 59/3 62/18 73/4
74/18 76/4 77/5 77/23}
82/2
workforce [1] 72/6
working [8] 9/7 34/12)
(43) Vennelis’ - working
Ww
working... [6] 36/11
38/1 67/19 67/20
74/20 81/1
workplace [1] 44/4
works [3] 33/2 36/3
42/12
worried [2] 62/17
62/18
worth [1] 24/21
would [126]
wouldn't [8] 7/1
15/17 17/3 22/11
47/15 67/20 69/23
87/9
Wright [1] 91/7
write [2] 31/2 96/12
writing [2] 16/19 96/6)
written [7] 16/17
30/16 31/8 88/22
94/10 94/20 97/14
wrong [3] 43/23 45/4
50/7
wrongdoing [3]
42/19 45/2 45/3
wrongful [1] 3/17
wrongly [1] 3/19
wrote [2] 21/20 30/24
Wyn [5] 16/4 23/7
45/24 95/1 99/18
Y
yards [1] 38/22
Yeah [2] 26/23 30/13
year [7] 42/24 45/22
47/25 53/2 60/13
70/19 93/4
years [12] 31/4 31/5
31/5 53/6 53/7 53/12
61/17 70/20 70/20
71/19 71/22 95/21
yellow [1] 64/23
yes [77] 1/21 2/1 4/12
6/8 6/25 8/1 9/1 10/1
12/25 13/4 14/17
14/21 15/23 16/5
17/11 21/13 23/20
24/11 25/10 25/14
25/25 25/25 26/2 26/7
27/23 29/12 33/20
35/5 36/12 40/20
41/11 41/18 46/2 47/1
49/10 49/11 49/13
49/22 50/16 55/14
55/19 57/5 58/22
58/25 62/13 62/14
63/3 63/12 64/14
65/22 65/25 66/3 67/8}
70/22 70/25 73/16
79/17 79/20 81/20
81/22 82/15 82/21
82/22 83/16 83/25
84/1 84/10 87/23
87/24 91/3 91/8 91/11
92/19 93/5 93/16
93/21 93/24
yesterday [15] 3/3
19/15 20/9 33/7 35/22
37/22 39/18 48/15
56/3 59/8 62/21 76/25)
79/7 81/11 89/1
yet [3] 25/18 48/25
95/24
you [281]
You'd [1] 3/10
you'll [4] 38/11 76/13
89/7 93/19
you're [14] 7/18 25/6
27/2 34/17 35/17
37/15 39/25 40/14
45/1 45/6 62/18 75/11
82/11 83/20
you've [20] 24/25
27/9 28/15 30/19
31/16 35/21 36/14
36/22 38/4 38/21 54/2
56/14 57/10 73/21
73/23 74/11 75/2
76/11 83/13 83/17
your [46] 3/2 5/10
5/10 6/17 7/8 8/15
10/20 15/13 15/23
16/18 17/23 18/8 19/7)
21/3 21/18 23/11
30/12 31/4 31/24 33/8)
33/8 33/18 35/22
38/15 39/1 39/8 41/9
42/8 43/12 54/20
56/15 61/19 71/13
71/16 71/25 72/20
75/2 80/8 81/15 84/19
87/19 88/21 88/25
93/3 94/12 95/18
20
Zarin [1] 92/14
(44) working... - Zarin