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FOR USE OF COUNCIL MEMBERS ONLY
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NATIONAL FEDERATION OF SUBPOSTMASTERS
REPORT OF A
MEETING OF THE
COUNCIL
held on
17 & 18 JUNE 2019
at
HOLIDAY INN CAMDEN LOCK
LONDON
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Report of a Meeting of the Council
held on Monday & Tuesday, 17 & 18 June 2019
at Holiday Inn Camden Lock,
London
Those present: Tim Boothman Chair
Susan Edgar Vice Chair
Calum Greenhow Chief Executive
Christine Donnelly
Uel Houston
Saj Hussain
Nilesh Joshi
Susan Jude
Paul McBain
Stuart Rogers, BEM
Bharat Visani
Yvonne Fennell ‘Spar UK
David Sanghera Rymans i
In attendance: Troy Gardner Director of Commercial & Retail I
Wendy Burke NC Facilitator & Operations Officer
Keith Richards Security & Network Transformation
Peter Hall Head of Policy & Research (part)
Paul Simmonds Director of Operations
{
]
Apologies: Kevin Hogarth WH Smith I
The Chair welcomed everyone to his first meeting in the chair. Congratulations to Sue
Edgar, Sue Jude, and Paul McBain on their re-election to the Board. Welcome to
Christine Donnelly attending her first meeting after being elected. Congratulations to
Saj Hussain who is now Deputy Mayor for Woking Borough Council. Congratulations also
to Stuart Rogers who was awarded the BEM in the recent Honours List.
1 REPORTS & RESOLUTIONS OF COUNCIL MEETINGS
(a) The Report of the meeting of 25 & 26 March 2019 was _
agreed as a true record. [DECISION
{b) The Resolutions passed at the meeting of 25 & 26 March
2019 were agreed as a true record. DECISION
{c) No further updates on action points as updates circulated
as they occurred.
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that public statements were very different to discussions in
the background. NFSP views were being taken seriously
into consideration and included in Working Group. Further
information would be provided as the meeting progressed.
Request for definitive information as to how cash
declarations should be done. Reported it was ongoing
work, Ongoing work. Sue Edgar would be giving an update
on cash management project. Part of that was ONCH and
foreign exchange and how declarations should be done.
Clarity was required as 40% not doing it properly. Ongoing
work but all spms should do it correctly and NFSP needed
to play a part. [ACTION
2. CEO REPORT
(d) Matters Arising. Kelly Tolhurst had emailed MP's. Clarified ( ;
a) BEIS Select Committee
lan
. NFSP has been listening to members to enable the
organisation to speak with authority and be a true reflection
of the views of the network.
° Looked forward and key areas that needed focus around
representation within government, within PO, among
membership and on the Board.
° What now exists is the culmination of that work and things
falling into place to move forward.
e There was no APPG for Post Offices but there is now.
Working Group with BEIS, PO and NFSP to ensure the
viability of the network going forward. NFSP argued that
the government were taking a ‘hands off approach to the
network but they were now very much ‘hands on’. It was all
good work.
° NFSP members’ survey in January/February 2019 has taken
BEIS/PO to a new place. Evidence based statements could
be made by the NFSP. ¢
° The fact that 22% of spms were considering their future
made them all listen. inundated with questions from
Ministers and MPs making a difference.
. First remuneration review panel to take place the following
Wednesday.
e At Conference the NFSP came away with a £20 million
increase to the overall network a year.
e The NFSP is making a positive difference. More work to be
done.
. NFSP had not been good at communicating and
interacting with our members but getting people to attend
meetings was difficult, with some regions not being as good
as they should be. Interaction with members is the NFSP's
primary focus. Our first Value is to be member led and we
can now do that better.
¢
Board Meeting ~~ 47 &18 June 2019 Page 3 of 30
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e Important to have specialisation on the Board, CEO needs
Board’s help and support. Every additional role has a
volunteer or more for some. Understood that Board are full
time operators within a post office and part time Directors.
Time spent on work for the NFSP is much appreciated.
BEIS Select Committee
. Report circulated.
° Sue Jude represented the NFSP at the Welsh Select
Committee and did a good job. It was not an easy task so
congratulations to Sue,
e Diagram to demonstrate the very small manoeuvring space
the NFSP could operate in when all other parties were
taken into account; government, MPs, CWU, Post Office and
members. You are very much in the MPs playpen and have
to play by their rules.
° At the BEIS Select Committee there was a bit of an ambush.
Every question our CEO was asked was followed up by Andy
Furey of the CWU, who contradicted everything said.
Questions around NT and how it benefitted the customer.
CWU appeared to be there to play a game.
° CEO was trying not to antagonise the PO whilst having to
criticise them for some things. NFSP need the PO to work
together to try and increase remuneration and also look at
footfall. i
° Government were also there and whilst the NFSP needed to H
criticise, they also needed to get them onside and i
motivated. They had invested £2.4 billion in the network I
1
but if that was all it was and they keep taking business
away, the network would lose footfall and remuneration.
. Also an audience at home of members, who wanted to see
the NFSP being their champion and fighting their cause.
e All those influences taken into account, left very little room
to manoeuvre.
° It was very much a balancing act between saying what you
wanted to say, but not going too far and alienating one of
the parties.
. It was very difficult but CEO quite pleased with how the
NFSP message had been got over to all parties. Main
messages were:
1. a need for a subsidy beyond March 2021 to support
the community network and assurances of the
continuation was needed now, not in the future.
2, On POCA, the DWP were strongly hinting they did not
plan to renew it in November 2021. 12 million
customers still using POCA and tended to be the most
elderly and most vulnerable in society who would not
be able to get a bank account. What are they going to
do? How are they going to get their money? Many
urban deprived post offices were seeing their numbers
drop.
Board Meeting 17 &18 June 2019 a Page 4 of 30
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3. Royal Mail contract coming up in January 2022. Need (
to ensure there is a viable contract going forward and
the partnership continues, Cannot accept a major
reduction in payment. What are RM's intentions?
Need the government involved to manage RMs
intentions in the background and make it clear they
would not be happy if the contract was detrimental to
the network.
4. Comment made that BEIS was one of several
government departments and they had realised that
they need to work across government.
b) Royal Mail
e Report circulated.
° Tim Boothman, as specialist on the NC, would report on a
meeting attended by himself and the CEO as part of the
NFSP aspiration to generate income. .
° NFSP set the agenda which was fraudulent labels, fraud ¢ ‘
within the network, parcel postboxes, Amazon setting up
pick up and post self-operation, relationship between PO
and RM, Direct 24 and 48 post offices could not scan and
plans for renationalisation.
PPI Mail
. PPI falls into three categories:
1. PPI returns using HQ number to get free return
2. Under reporting on PPI statement - send 20 items but only
pay for 10
3. Fraudulent HQ account number but do not have a valid
process. No one was getting paid in these cases.
° RM already taking very seriously.
° Chair had visited Manchester Mails Centre, pulled out a bag
at random in front the team, and one branch had not done
mails segregation.
° RM prepared to work with the NFSP. Asked if there was €
some form of policing spms could undertake over the
counter as it used to be. Possible to do the same again. RM
would never go back to stamps but spms could scan for a
payment. Machines being installed in mails centres to scan
every item of mail. This would take time (around 2 years)
and a lot of investment but every single item of mail would
be scanned.
. Enquired once fraudulent PPI mail was In the system and
had been discovered what RM do with it? What would the
Regulator allow them to do? They would probably come up
with the idea of delivering it as cheapest option and the
team believed that what had been done. Lost revenue and
jeopardises mails segregation payments. There was a lot of
work to do but the team would try.
‘Board Meeting : 17 &18 June 2019 Page 5 of 30
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Parcel boxes
. RM share price suffering considerably. Parcel boxes were
announced and attracted a lot of press coverage. RM did
not plan to extend their estate more than it is currently.
Only existing sites with larged franked mailboxes,
Announced to bolster the share price and it worked.
Amazon PUIDO Network
° RM do not expect to lose much traffic,
. 80% of Amazon sales went through their own network.
. Already have 2-3,000 lockers, Nick Landon’s opinion was
that Amazon throw a lot of money at something to see if it
worked,
° RM not too bothered about Amazon at the moment.
. NFSP unconvinced by RMs stance of not being worried.
Local Collect
. Proving a barrier to market. Chair had never charged for the
service and had never pressed the fee button. Needs
clarification through PO to see figures around what was
actually happening. {ACTION
QR Codes
° Good news was the QR bar code was on the increase
Future relationship between RM, PO and network
° Contract was up for renewal. Last time signed off as an Inter
Business Agreement. Different now as it is two separate
companies. RM would want to do what was best for them.
° RM fined £50 million last year for something to do with
downstream access and competition law.
. Talks have started between PO and RM. Situation needed
to be monitored, as any downturn in remuneration to spms
would have a catastrophic effect on the network.
° Good news was that RM would like a 10 year contract and
want to work with the NFSP. Teams were in the same place
on many things, like not enough of the £330 million being
paid to spms. RM do not understand why so little was paid
by PO,
° NFSP were in the right place and talking to them.
Tracked 24 and 48
e Question asked to Mark Siviter at conference who gave a
very elaborate reply. No movement whatsoever,
Renationalisation
e Just announced a £18 billion investment. Nick Landon's
view was that would a Labour government stay in power
long enough to see it through - probably not. Would be
very difficult to do. Would it be in spms best interests?
Chair did not know.
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Discussion
c)
Pleased that RM had a desire to continue a relationship
going forward. Currently exclusive contract and in some
aspects the same for RM. They can sell books of stamps to
anybody but cannot go out and sell the other items that are
through a post office via a rival network. For large contracts
they can enter into an individual contract but cannot sell
their products via other companies. Parcelforce can go
through consolidators, There were one or two anomalies
but they were closed down when reported by the NFSP.
RM contract was worth £340 million of which £180 million
went to spms, and was a significant footfall generator.
Important that the relationship continued.
On the postbox aspect, Amazon were doing a lot with
drones which looks good and sounds futuristic. Uber are
using self-driving taxi’s. It was the RM version of doing the
same thing. Same box with additional functionality. Most
were sited within industrial estates, Usage to date was low
as there was not proof of posting. Something to make RM
look good but through the network was where the value
and volume was for RM.
Felt the NFSP needed to agree a payment for revenue
protection. Warning that the new machines would also
pick up spm failures too. Many not producing the correct
label when parcels sent to 3 different countries. May require
further education piece for post offices. Major concerns that
RM were allowing items to pass through the system even if
they were underpaid. General agreement on the matter
but how to achieve a solution without breaking the law was
a challenge for PO and RM.
On Amazon, if they have a lot of parcels on a particular day
for one area they will use their own drivers but if it is only
one or two they use RM.
Spms needed to encourage customers to use LocalCollect.
Suggestion of article in magazine.
There followed further lengthy discussion on various RM
related matters.
Loss Prevention
At the March Board it was agreed that Nilesh Joshi would
take up responsibility for Legal and Regulatory matters.
Neil Davey was now Head of Loss Prevention for PO and had
a team of 96, and reported to Julie Thomas.
The team was split into three - auditors, contracts managers
and investigation. Each team would have a manager
reporting to Neil Davey. A relationship needed to be built
with Neil Davey and Nilesh Joshi was doing a good job.
If a Board member is dealing a contractual issue, they
should keep Nilesh Joshi informed of any correspondence,
reports, etc, to enable him to keep better records and
identify if there are anomalies or issues.
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Benoy
[ACTION
Board Meeting 17 &18 June 2019
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° There has to be uniformity in the processes that take place.
This can only be achieved by feeding back information.
. Proposal to be considered after Nilesh Joshi had spoken,
Been campaigned for over some time if a spm_ is
suspended. If suspended, lose remuneration but would still
have related costs. PO now paying remuneration to a
suspended spm. Various cases mentioned where NFSP had
achieved some success when the spm was clearly not
responsible for the missing funds. Positive results in seven
cases,
. Felt there should be some time element in place in
disciplinary cases as some were taking far too long. It was
however important that every case is investigated fully.
There also needed to be more communication with the
suspended spm as they had no way of contacting anyone
once suspended, There needed to be SLA’s in place.
Regular meetings taking place.
° Important that a temporary spm is not liable for
redundancy payments, etc. under TUPE.
° A proposition was put forward. “Whilst suspended the som
would receive full remuneration but would remain 1
responsible for any mortgages/rent, rates, utilities and any
other property costs, The temporary spm will be
responsible for remunerating any PO counter staff plus an
appropriate management fee.” The proposal was formally
proposed and seconded.
e There followed lengthy discussion. PO would be paying
both the suspended spm and the temporary so the
incentive would be in place to make a decision in a timely
manner. After the discussion it was decided to withdraw 7
the proposal as it needed to be carefully looked at again. [ACTION
° Need to rewrite the proposal in association with PO and
after discussing with HR4UK to come up with wording that
was both legal and took into account the issues raised,
* The Board were in favour of spms being paid whilst
suspended, but not be in a position to take advantage or
profit from the situation.
° Discussion around those who were criminal and how PO
would recover funds paid whilst suspended. Hope was that
PO would monitor an office and step in before any issues
got to huge sums of money. Felt that those who were guilty
should pay PO back the money paid in remuneration whilst
suspended.
° NFSP needed to be driving the agenda rather than waiting
for PO to come up with a process,
° The complex discussion had demonstrated how hard it was
for PO to come up with a fair and equitable process for all
parties,
° In the case of a Main, PO had ‘step in rights’ and could put a
temporary in. Spm still had the right to say whether or not
they accepted the person nominated by PO.
Board Meeting ~ 17 &18 June 2019 Page 8 of 30
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Area Managers ¢ .
° Sean Kerrison attended NC meeting to discuss new roles &
structure. There is an opportunity for Board Directors to
work with Area Managers to progress further, and build
relationships. Need to be sure they understood the role of
the NFSP and what it can do. Could assist in supporting
members better.
° Some directors were already working with their
Area/Regional Managers and that should be replicated
across the UK. There was a willingness from PO to work
together.
° Contact details for the new teams would be circulated by t
Wendy Burke.
€
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e) Cash Centre Visit
° Visited Cash Centre in Birmingham. Spoke to numerous
managers who reported to Russell Hancock.
Safe Scan Machines
* When asked if there had been a significant reduction in
forgeries from offices using a Safescan machine, the
response was no.
° Safescan were supposed to email everyone who had
bought one in relation to the settings but some had not
received an email.
° Suggestion that article is put in magazine about the
settings, to see if there was a decline in forgeries when
machine was used correctly, I
e In the whole industry only 2 forgeries of the new polymer I
£10 notes however that may change with time. I
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PBNEs
. Advise staff not to use these. Only businesses that have an
indemnity are supposed to use them.
. Look at redesigning plastic or different materials for PBNE
and REM packs. When a customer comes in with banking,
once sort code and account number was entered, Horizon
would tell the spm if they have an indemnity. Cash centre
machines are unable to differentiate between a business or
PO PBNE currently but were looking at new machines.
° Looking at reducing plastic within the business, so looking
at different materials for PBNEs and REM bags, etc.
° When viewing footage at cash centres, asked if the viewer
could see the number of notes counted. As they need
replacement, PO would look at the cost for this on the new
machines.
an
Case across the Counter . .
° Trialling new case for ‘cash across the counter’.
e A Gheller one is an aluminium landscape case with a €
“deadman’s’ handle and indelible ink that heats the notes.
. Looking at parameters, timeframe and access via fob, etc.
° Spinnaker version emits a quick drying glue and ink onto
the notes and they become inseparable. Notes set into a
hard block.
Cash Holdings/Ordering
° When you have to go to second line about cash ordering
and anything else, why do PO need first line if you go to
second line anyway? First line is just a call centre but do not
have any data, second line have the data, Argued that PO
should not be looking at last week or last month's figures,
they should be looking at last year’s. Every region has
different school holidays and are affected by different
factors.
° {f an office is holding notes that are not selling, such as
Turkish lira in the winter, they should be returned as they €
will have a hold on overnight figures, and create an
increased cost to PO,
e Some branches are able to pre order Egyptian pounds and
some are not. Reason? PO stock has gone down and may
not have any.
AEI Machines
. Around 1,400 in the network, Once the new design was
improved, PO would be looking to increase their estate.
Would be a smaller version. PO to keep NFSP informed on
progress, etc,
NI Driving Licences
° Need to harmonise. 4 years for MOT in NI, whereas it's 3
years everywhere else.
€
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Trial of new REM pouches
. Going live in about 20 offices.
. Pouch would come into branch (mostly Locals) and have
exact instructions as to what they had to do to REM out and
REM in.
. In many Locals only one person knows how to deal with a
REM.
Branch Hub
. Once set up will be able to complete a P250 on the hub
and it would go back to PO.
ATMs
. Not all ATMs would be updated to deal with the new
polymer £20 notes in time for the release of the new notes.
. PO taiking to Bank of England to see if they could continue
to use the old £20 notes until all the machines had been
updated.
Limits
. PO looking at changing the limits on open plan Locals
when taking in banking from £2,000 to £4,000. If it went
ahead it would be monitored and strictly enforced.
IDP
° Asked if Brexit happened in October if there was enough
stock to meet demand. The response was that there was
enough stock.
e Number of IDP offices was down to government and DVLA,
not PO.
° In relation to the boxes on the form being too small, cannot
be changed as design was set up with government and UN
convention. UK signed up and must comply by following
the terms & conditions to the letter.
Cash Centre changes
° Changes of responsibilities within cash centres with some
other cash centres coming under Rhys Davis team at
Midway (Glasgow and Belfast would be amalgamated).
° Potential issues with Glasgow cash centre being
investigated.
Next meeting
° Meeting again in September.
° There followed a short discussion.
f) Remuneration
e All about listening and understanding, taking in all
viewpoints. The NFSP team needed to have an idea of what
the Board wanted.
‘Board Meeting "47 & 1B June 2019 Page 12 of 30.
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° Lot of NFSP work over the last 18 months has been trying to ¢ \
get the government to take a hand on view of PO. The
government viewpoint is that NT is successful, they still have
11,500 branches, reduced costs and company was in profit.
° However, what was impact on the network? Need your
views on that, What the members survey was about. I
e Postal Affairs Minister has committed to ensuring spms
operate post offices and have a viable future, Minister was
after a quick headline. She wanted to make a positive
impact and look to the future. i
. No agenda received yet but PO said it would be to help j
understand branch segmentation to ensure a branch can I
be sustained or help it to grow. I
e What level of investment would be required? Around I
banking what are the risks and costs involved for a further I
rate increase next year? Community network, CTP/AOP,
should it increase? For the hard to place offices, how can I
they be made more attractive to PNOs? How can we ensure
PO PO digital channels are not direct competitors to the
branch network and how can remuneration be driven into I
branches? Financial services, customer takes out an Instant I
Saver and they get sent an Online Saver so you lose that
customer. How to ensure the customer stays relevant to the
spm? If you have bureau, 1.06 in branch and 1.10 online.
Customer goes online and gets it sent to the spm and the
spm loses out. How to ensure online is not a direct
competitor and is a revenue generator for spm?
e Board needed to look beyond Ip on this or 2p on that. Back
office services not paid for. In between serving customers,
doing compliance training or making sure leaflets are up to
date. REMs to go back not paid for work. Take into account
that the idea is not only do you earn more from your post
office, but encouraging spms to be more involved in the 5
W's, How can that be achieved? Everything is open.
° Comment made that all businesses have back office
accounting procedures and PO were no different, just had ¢
greater volumes of cash, Did that warrant extra payments?
° Historically PO have done time and motion studies as to
how long a transaction took but only when it suited them.
There is a lot of back office work to be done for no payment.
. Further comment made that the back office work cost time
and money. PO needed to change their mindset from a
post office being subsidised by a retail business. A post
office should generate its own income. Payment for social
value should also be recognised.
° Many members with Locals wanted to be on the same pay
scale as a Main. PO will only pay money if it is earned. Ifa
spm does not perform well, PO will, want performance
management targets. NFSP needed to be mindful of the
possibility of their introduction, Fear that PO would give
with one hand and performance manage with the other.
Foon
(
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° PO would have to be careful as they had an ongoing court
case with people who felt they were employees, and PO
could damage their own argument against.
. Traditionally paid about 3% for back office and unpaid work.
Should that be reintroduced? Felt the internet was
designed to undercut the branch network.
. PO were seriously looking at the whole online channel.
. Felt that if soms were paid for what they did it would go a
long way. Social payment received from government
should be paid as a payment rather than a subsidy. Mains
offices not paid for proof of posting. As an integral part of
the overall business spms should be paid for what they do.
e Question asked as to how?
. Would have to be worked out carefully but there had to be
a way to achieve it.
° On SSKs there was a free trial but they then had to be
‘rented’ at quite high cost. Should they be paid for by the
spm or should it be provided by PO as part of their ‘kit’?
° Opinion expressed that spms saw PO as one of their biggest
competitors, Latest offer on travel insurance. To get the
special offer the customer has to provide an email address,
then PO market the customer direct so the spm has lost
them.
e There was a lack of trust within the network towards PO on
financial services. Very difficult to pinpoint that a spm has
dealt with a customer and not been paid for it, or when the
customer calls, no FAD code is taken. If the NFSP can
improve the income and more transactions are done, it is a
double bonus.
° Need to attract younger people into the network. Some
spms had made the brave decision to do an apprenticeship
programme. Should we be rewarded for making a
succession plan for our own network? Spms had wisdom to
pass on to young people.
° Financial services products over the counter, credit cards,
etc,, customer told to go online and spm takes data capture.
Application forms send and they go missing. Sales made
but not credited to the post office.
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e SSKs - should be free, but they do serve a purpose. (
Example, Trafalgar Square closed in September, 7,000
customer sessions a week approx. Regent Street was
nearest office, removed 2 counters and put in 4 SSKs. Some
days 59-60% of transactions were on the SSK. The Strand
was the same with 6 counters and 4 SSKs, There was a cost
to PO to put SSKs in, so there was an argument. Business
was growing by 5-6,000 customer session per week. The
machines could be improved, and at a meeting with Lisa
Watkins, further developments were coming. PO needed to
reward operators who do well every year and were out
performing the network. Sales targets needed to be
sensible. If targets are hit, there needs to be a bonus
payment for that product. Need to be rewarded for work
done. Back office work was decreasing. Many branches no
longer had a physical back office as there was no need and
just have a terminal in the fortress. PO should pay better for
the work spms do,
° Do not want to get paid for doing less. Get paid more for €
transactions, but transaction levels were decreasing.
Increases needed to generate growth. No one had talked
about investments. Thoughts and ideas?
° SSKs worked for large post offices but were not cost
effective for those with just one counter. Sales and footfall
were falling for PO. Nothing new for customers and need
new customers.
° On mails focus more on acceptance rather than label
printing. Balance was changing and needed to be taken
into account. No good paying per label if the transactions
were reducing. Ranches to have an element of their pay as
a bonus but on an annual basis, Monthly pay is spent and
there is nothing left to invest in their business. Could be a
pot of money to refresh the branch based on their income
and volume of transactions. That money could not be spent
on anything but would have to be reinvested into the
business. ¢
° Felt more could be done on MVLs and cherished numbers
and SOMs. Go back to discs which sounds weird, but the
government were losing £ millions of revenue since paper
discs were removed, Needed to be revisited because the
loss was growing year on year. Remuneration should be
better for MVL products. Current level of pay on reflects
scanning bar codes not the volume of work. Most of the
work was V62s that could take up to an hour.
. Based on figures seen and until PO can prove that the post
office does drive footfall, and the challenge on retail space,
that will become more apparent when the government
introduce taxes on high fat/salt/sugar products. These items
will need to be moved away from the kiosk making space
even more challenged, Space is prime and prime retail. PO
should be making a contribution to retail space.
(
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° On MVLs in Northern Ireland they have to have a hard copy
of the insurance certificate. In the rest of the country it was
all automatically linked together. Question raised as to why
Northern Ireland couldn't do the same? Response was that
it was yet another issue that could not be dealt with as
there was no government so no one to change it. The same
applied to driving licences.
. Another area of lost revenue was premium bonds. Many
people are saying they don’t want to do it any more and put
their money back in the bank/building society is growing.
Government gained free loan money from premium bonds.
Used to be easy to buy one over the counter, and that
should be done again.
° Many failed transactions like Moneygram and V62, you do
all the work and get to the end and it fails. Could there be a
payment for that? NFSP need to know how long a
transaction takes to do before talking to PO, Would give
ammunition to argue a point if a time and motion study
was undertaken.
° Biggest asset the network had was its customers,
subpostmasters and communities. If you look at the Co Op,
in 2013 they were very close to collapse. They came up with
the Co Op card and they have grown their business on the
back of their customers and communities. If a customer I
uses the card they get 4% back and a further 1% goes to I
community projects. The card had driven their business in 1
the right direction. With the right set of parameters, PO
could do something to reward both the spm and
contribute to communities. Tesco had just moved from a
national initiative to more local and it was driving footfall
back into their stores. Different things will work for different
branches so their needs to be a suite of choices.
° Pointed out that sems do support their communities but
they want to be paid for what they are doing.
. Could come up with initiatives that would drive footfall and
remuneration. PO could be using the footfall.
° Clarified that many customers come in just to use the post
office and do not spend any money in the retail. PO
constantly use the word footfall, but it just doesn’t work.
° In the past credit unions has been considered.
Opportunities with so many small credit unions who can
only operate in their local area. PO should do some work
around that.
° On credit unions, one village had lost its last bank and the
MP looked into a credit union. In Scotland you cannot do it
as it is a conflict of interest. Great idea but not possible in
Scotland. Same applied in Northern Ireland where the two
credit unions would not communicate with each other.
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elected the Board to represent them and you could end up
with 11,500 different ideas. Whatever comes of the pay
review has to incentivise and franchise spms again. It was
not just about level of pay, but getting the network back on
board and rolling back the past.
. Al Cameron had said at conference he would look into it,
but may need to be pushed. Not all income is through pay
packets, and there was talk about getting free business
banking. We would all like to have more money in our
bank.
e Response was that the NFSP were close to having free
business banking but PO Legal stopped it. When PO asked,
no banks were interested however the responses were not
recorded so PO will now have another round of meetings to
see if any bank was interested. Bank the NFSP were going
to launch have pulled out as it is too complex to deal with
PO, Need a starter bank to take it on. €
° Should spms get a cost of living increase like MPs based on
inflation?
. That would be nice. There are three ways the price of a
contract is reached:
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. Suggestion that the NFSP asked the network for ideas. .
Question could be asked at branch meetings. Members «
I
° How much it costs to provide the service
° Profit margin hence selling price
° What was the market prepared to pay and
what was the competition
° The price was being driven down. Have to understand that
asking for 50% increase was not viable. Would be great in
the right environment but just not possible.
° PO would produce a £60 million profit.
° Issue the NFSP face was to look at the bigger picture, PO
could not pay spms money they did not have. Want an
increase but also want to generate growth, more people
coming into store and bigger numbers would mean more
in store sales, even if not every customer made retail ¢
purchases, Post office and store were both footfall drivers
and need to both work for each other. Lot of work to do,
More work to be done on the look and feel was an attractive
proposition to customers, Too many spms and too many
premises scream post office rather than the business they
are running. Felt the NFSP should help in making their
retail environment as good as it can be, the level of service is
as good as it can be, and staffing is as good as it can be. It
would make the whole network attractive to customers.
The whole business needs to be moved forward. Board's
comments would be taken into account.
foam,
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° Meetings would be attended by the CEO, Tim Boothman
and Nilesh Joshi. They would report back to the Board on
initial discussions. It would be in confidence but the team
would need feedback from the Board, Expectations of
members needed to be managed. There were already
detractors saying any increase would be next to nothing.
The NFSP had already achieved £20 million increase for
banking which should be shouted about,
. The Board could be confident that the team would be
putting the views of both the Board and members forward.
3. NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE REPORT
° Report circulated but further meeting the previous week
much of content already covered by CEO.
Clarification on ATM payments
. After an attack or removal by BOI whilst machine is not
there:
o £300 for 6 months
o £150 for3 months
° PO out to tender for the ATM contract. Temporary measure
until finalised.
. PO hope to roll out new machines that will be able to take
paying in as well as paying out.
° They would mostly be internal.
e These were interim payments for the spm to cover lost
income.
° Further clarification required on those subject to attack to
ensure they are considered for the payment as the NFSP
believes they should be, Would report back to the Board.
Trillium Project
° Legacy sorting offices sold by RM 10 years ago. In 2021/22
leases come to an end. If spm given notice to quit, they
would have to leave within one year.
° Requested that someone from Trillium come to speak to
the NC to tell them what was going on.
. Affected around 300 offices, most of which were larger
Mains.
Sean Kerrison
° Retail Manager, East Anglia and Lincolnshire,
. Keen to work with the NFSP. Now have details for all the
managers in the UK and where they are so Directors can
keep in contact. List to be forwarded to the Board,
. Directors asked to contact the ones in their area and
arrange to meet as the NFSP needed to work closely with
them.
e Asked how he saw the retail team. Views as immediate
support from the Area Manager and if retail support was
needed it would be passed to our Retail team. Positive
news, Finally a joined up approach.
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Hot Housing
Want to find out what is going on.
PO want to know what is on spm minds, and many had not
seen anyone from PO for 10-15 years.
PO want to know their thinking and worries and try to
address them.
Trying to give tools and tips.
Again positive news for the network.
IT Update
.
Around 40 signed up for the branch hub at conference.
Directors asked to send details and sign up for the Hub then
use it to feedback thoughts to PO.
Would be the go to place for problems and would be a
positive tool.
Useful if you have IT problems to report the issue get
updates.
Log in was quite awkward for now but PO working on that
Printers
All branches have the new printers.
Reason for them being slow was the drivers and issues with
which port had been used when trying to update them.
Was causing difficulty across the network but was no longer
an issue.
There would be further enhancements to improve
performance.
Incidents
Incidents logged have reduced considerably since March.
August 2018 7,470 incidents
May 2019 3,381 incidents.
Not perfect but incidents were significantly reducing.
Some counters not re-booting overnight which was causing
problems.
Ifa Director hears from a member that they have to re-boot
every morning could they please report it.
Government Services
AEI machines roll out of smaller unit that could have the
ability to handle digital passport processing.
Intention was to grow the estate from 700 units to 1400
units,
Asked who would get them and based on what criteria.
Would report back once response received.
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can
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IDP
.
Limit of 530 branches could do the transaction. By 31
October would know if more required.
Asked PO to send out communications to make sure those
branches have plenty of Paperwork and documents in
branch.
Communication was vital.
Banking ~ Greg Lewis
Rece!
e
Addressing issue of no Paperwork for the postman if they
come and collect cheques from a branch and does not
Present a pick up sheet. If it went missing was difficult to
Prove as there was no fallback.
Every BCV has an identification number, suggested on the
Horizon print of that number should be marked to prove it
had been done and sent. Confirmed by PO that would be
acceptable.
Another Director, when the postman signs to say he has
taken a sealed bag, they write on it what he has taken and
then get the postman to sign it.
Another Director take a piece of Paper, write what has been
taken, date stamp it and get the postman to sign.
Clear that clear instructions we required across the network.
Working on enhancements at the moment including
automation of BCV voucher. Scan bar code in branch prior
to leaving the office as proof, PO investigating Possibility.
PO concerned at the number of banking errors that could
result in a huge loss. Enhancements will be double key of
all cash deposits. The total figure will have to be re-entered,
An extra process but a good idea in case someone had hit
an extra 0,
Disable 00 key. Technically not sure if that could happen,
That key is the one most often causing problems. PO to
check out if it was feasible,
There should be continuity of transaction across products,
for banking spm has to enter 20.00 but for travel it was just
20.
ipt Font
Receipt font after deposit or withdrawal to be changed to
ensure figure stands out.
On declined transactions, no receipt would print until
acknowledgement is made on screen, Seen as a good
change.
Second receipt would print after a declined transaction and
customer would need to acknowledge return of their cash,
Banking Indemnity
Spms do not currently know who as an indemnity. Would
be refreshed and held on Horizon.
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Bank Closures ¢ .
° Support pack to be available when needed.
. Banking team had committed to their support.
Time Saver Deposits
. Deposits would be accepted.
. If a discrepancy was found there would be a Transaction
Discrepancy button on the screen so spms are not short or
over on the money in the envelopes.
Distance Learning
° Distance learning pack to be developed.
° Wait and see what it contains but anything to support
learning and training for spms would be positive.
Subpostmaster Training
e To be enhanced and available to anyone who wants to do it.
Barclays Change Giving Light €
° Coming November 2019.
. Must be sure staff and spms are using the correct process.
° Crucial that right information was entered.
Horizon Help
. First thing in the morning, press Horizon Help. It downloads
for the day and you carry on serving.
° When you do need to use it, information comes up quickly.
Purple Envelope Trial
e When a customer pays by cheque for car tax, etc, cheques
for payments will go separate from your cheque deposit
envelopes.
° PO sending out plain purple envelopes, you put them in the
envelope, then inside the orange pouch. Would speed up
the process of payments coming out of customers bank
accounts, €
° Keeps the cheques all together. Currently on trial.
Security
° Robberies up year on year, 25 in 2019 compared to 13 in
2018
. Burglaries were down, 10 versus 13.
e ATM attacks up, 10 versus 4, PO very concerned.
. CIT attacks similar. 3 versus 4
° 410 gas suppression kits installed of the 559 proposed for
high risk branches. Other branches would become high risk
as the criminals moved around the country. PO closely
monitoring.
. 85 more gas suppression units to be installed as soon as
possible.
. PO intention is for 900 across the network. PO believe it
should reduce the rate of attacks.
. Fogging kits being installed in high risk branches. ¢
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. PO have an indemnity if customers were hurt running from
the danger zone if the fogging kit is activated.
Grapevine App
° NFSP would like it to be joined to the Branch Hub which
should be the place to go for everything.
Engineer Visits
° Engineers arriving unannounced to work on alarms, for
instance upgrades. Unacceptable as it leaves the spm at
risk.
° PO to address and report back. [ACTION
General Questions
° Issue raised that a smart ID was still required for back office
functions and Drop & Go, NC had made their feelings about
Smart ID very clear and robustly. Issues identified with
multiple log ins even if only one is being used, if staff
member logs it out, any pending sales stack is lost. Raised
with PO but they keep saying they can't do it, Legal won't
let them do it, etc. NC would persist. Worry was that a spm
may use, for example, their spouses log on which defeated
the object. Confirmed that spms were doing that, they
could be suspended if discovered, and that a proper I
solution was required, i
° Issue also raised that a spms may have a member of staff,
terminate their employment for gross misconduct, notify
PO HR, but they are not allowed to blacklist that person.
They could go to another office and use the same smart ID.
There were many things that needed addressing with smart
ID which was creating, not solving issues.
. Raised that if a spm has not worked for a while and tests
had taken place, they could not get back onto Horizon until
they had done them. NC confirmed that there was a lot of
work to be done on smart ID.
\ ° On Travel Insurance and Money Laundering. Issue raised by
several Directors that when tests are done it took time to
register, or didn’t register at all even when a receipt had
been produced, and transaction could not be done. _.
Needed to be checked out. [ACTION
° Confirmation requested that if a Camelot employee offered
a spm the lottery and they take it through the PO, cost to
spm? Response was installation fee of £299 plus VAT as a
one off payment but not the £50 per month. Scratchcards
used to be £25 a month, but that would also no longer
happen. There would be no monthly fees. Have been
asking how a spm can apply but cannot get a straight
answer, Go to Camelot and they would contact PO. Report
any problems to the NC to take up. Situation would remain
the same that commission would be 4% not 5%. Another
good news story for the NFSP, [ACTION
° Yvonne Fennell would send everyone the link to apply to
Camelot online. CTIONI
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° Confirmed that there were no stipulations on opening hours ¢
for the new compact terminals.
PPI
° Small offices on AOP. There was the annual mail count so ¢
everybody got paid. For offices doing a lot of PPI they
should receive a payment and PO had agreed to that.
Offices that did little PPI still got paid. No one would lose
out. Those doing a lot of PP! would get 20p a bag which
was not huge, but it was money. Added up to £1.2 milliona
year.
e Assurance it would not be reduced in the future. Linked to
pay line 1907 and would not be reduced in the future. NC
want to know what line 1907 is worth compared to line 1029
and how the 20p has been calculated. Chris Howard would
be reporting back. ACTION)
¢
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ational Fecleration of SubPostmasters
Certificate of Posting
PO had agreed they would pay for that in a similar way to.
Dangerous Goods. There would be a cap based on the
number of customer sessions on a weekly basis. Works out
at £0,0007.
NC wanted a greater understanding of how line 1907 was
made up and if it reflected the time it takes to do it,
When talking to members, better to use the £1.2 million
figure which was new money on top of the £20 million of
new money for banking, and mention the pay review also
taking place.
On the table now as a starting point that could be revisited,
Customers could not be charged for a COP as it was against
the USO,
Small office payments for banking
°
For small offices on AOP they were not being paid for
deposits and withdrawals on banking. Would now get paid
the same as a Local or Community branchy for those
products and should overall see an increase.
4. NNL & HARD TO PLACE OFFICES
Report circulated.
NNLs
Only 338 NNL sites opened despite over 1,000 letters being
sent out, PO not expecting target to be reached this year.
The offer was not attractive enough, it was too complex, and
the process took too long. PO trying to slim down the
recruitment process. Target was to open 220 this year.
For those adversely affected by an NNL, 4 cases were being
assessed at the Review Panel in relation to the care
package. One had been agreed and progressed just
awaiting dates for signage, another had been agreed in
principle but needed PO to do the costings on resiting
Horizon kit, third is being dealt with directly by PO although
retail had been instructed to put a proposal together.
Couple of cases where the spm had received the
notification letter that PO were looking for an NNL in the
area. Even if there was a long delay, PO were sticking with
wanting one in a particular area even if it took a long time.
If a member reports receiving a letter about a potential
NNL, please pass on the details to Peter Hall or Keith
Richards so they can check it.
PO looking to reduce the time it took to open an NNL.
Multiples can be turn round much quicker.
Impact of every single NNL was being reviewed after it had
been trading for 6 months. If it was affecting another
branch it would be looked into to see if they qualified for
the care package.
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° if a spm is struggling earlier than 6 month after an NNL
opening they need to get in touch so it could be reviewed
earlier.
e Only 28 cases had gone through the Review Panel, which
was a very small proportion.
° When the issue of no consultation was raised, the
explanation was that it was not a change in service, it was
an increase in service so no consultation was required.
° Lots of work still to do on the whole issue of NNLs, but in
general the impact was not as great as expected. It was
being very closely monitored.
° Some cases were reported to the NFSP but the spm was
not prepared to provide the detailed information required
to progress their case, however all NNLs were monitored
after 6 months of trading.
. Care package should still not be discussed with members, it
would be dealt with on a one to one basis.
Hard to Place Offices
. Around 400 hard to place offices.
e NFSP cannot back away from these people. Many were
past retirement and in very rural areas and often health
issues involved.
° Survey to be sent {could be completed online or on paper)
to find out who they were and their individual
circumstances, did they have a mortgage or a lease, were
their rent or property issues, etc.
° If there was ill health, or may be happy to continue.
° PO had scaled back the NT team and it was now 3 people.
No one going out to try and get a PNO. Leaving hard to
place offices stuck.
. NFSP had put forward a proposal to PO that a PNO should
receive 100% of the CTP for Year 1, 66% for Year 2, 22% for
Year 3, then they should be self-sufficient by Year 4.
e Reason for the proposal was that often when an office
moved premises not all the customers migrated but they
did eventually come back but it takes time.
. As new to the business there was a learning curve but the
money would give help and support in the early days.
° CTP and compensation must continue beyond 2021. That is
the NFSP commitment to those offices and it would remain
that way. Want to get it confirmed in writing from PO.
° Change of journey may no longer be possible as NT has
ended, to be confirmed by Keith Richards.
. Request that Board encourage members who receive the
survey to complete and return it. Important the spms
understand there is lots of other work taking place and they
should contact the NFSP if they had not done so already.
° Offer to provide list of hard to place offices that were
members for an area if any Director wanted it (please
contact Peter Hall).
(
faction
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5. CONFERENCE 2019
The Board to ensure the Regional Secretaries get in to
Shoreham information on who is attending Conference as
quickly as they possibly can,
Reported a suggestion had been put forward to have
sessions at Conference per office type ie Main, Local and
Community.
Reported that the premises were good but the food was
not.
The Chair on behalf of the Board thanked Sharon
Merryweather for her efforts.
6. BOARD VACANCIES
Chair NFSP; Tim Boothman
Vice Chair NFSP: Sue Edgar
Care for Customers and Colleagues: Christine Donnelly who
would work with Wendy Burke on mental health, Scamwise,
etc
Negotiating Committee: Nilesh Joshi (Chair), Sue Edgar, Tim
Boothman, Paul McBain
Chair of Board of Benevolence: Sue Jude
Vice Chair Board of Benevolence: Uel Houston
Legal & Regulatory; Nilesh Joshi
Relationships in Westminster: Stuart Rogers
Local Government: Paul McBain (with Saj Hussain in
England, Sue Jude in Wales and Uel Houston in Northern
Ireland
Ta. DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS REPORT
The Director of Operation’s report had been circulated prior
to the meeting.
Mails Segregation
Paul Simmonds updated the Board on information received
since the circulation of his report.
PI targets for 1* class parcels were not looking as though
they would meet the flightpath criteria. However 2" class
parcels were meeting the flightpath targets. The Team will
focus on 2" class parcels, which would mean that two out
of three targets could be met as letter/ large letter should
be achieved.
The target for 1* and 2™ class parcels is 97.5%.
Target for Letter/ Large Letter is 90% and will increase to
91% next year and 93.5% for the following year.
Working closely with Royal Mail and have held meetings
with Post Office and Royal Mail.
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° A trial is being conducted in the Wolverhampton and South €
Midland Mail Centres, whereby they will record mail bag
errors according to the guide set out 3/4 years ago. The
benefit being that if those areas start to achieve target
through having this information we will be in a position to
request that this be rolled out nationally. This could enable
negotiations with Post Office if it proves targets are
achieved to request flexibility and compensation if this had
been provided earlier to us as requested.
° Will be putting more Team resource in Wolverhampton and
South Midlands Mails Centres areas.
e The Team are building relationships with Mails Centres on a
local level and arranging visits for subpostmasters.
° Also building relationships with Plant Revenue Managers.
° One MSA has increased compliance in their area for 2™
class parcels from period 1 to 2 by 2% because of the
relationship and the additional data provided.
. Now producing two sets of data to show actual compliance
and adjusted compliance by removing the data where Post ¢
Office have agreed that offices do not have space to
segregate, Also taking out data where Mails Centres have
made the error and not the office.
. Data is analysed every month.
e Would be good if targets for 1* and 2™ class could be
reviewed when Post Office negotiate the new Mails contract
with Royal Mail.
° Would be good if targets for 1* and 24 could be phased as
letters/ large letters targets were.
CRM/ Website
. Paul Simmonds gave a live demonstration on the CRM/
Website and showed the Board how to navigate the system.
° From the member perspective the system is ready.
° Will go live after Friday 21 June.
e Members will receive an invitation to set up a password to
log on and use. €
° Members will be asked to the check the information
relating to them and update as necessary.
. Events can be created and managed and published via a
webpage.
° Members will be notified via email that they have an
invitation to a meeting. Those members that do not have
emails will still be sent paper invitations.
° Will communicate to members how to use the CRM via a
drip feed process to include articles in the Subpostmaster
Magazine.
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I
Tb. DIRECTOR OF RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL REPORT I
° The report had been circulated. I
A retail update had been circulated on Bicker Community I
Branch. It took about a year to do the refurb. Had obtained I
£13,000 for the office from the Community Fund. I
e
Tc. HEAD OF POLICY AND RESEARCH UPDATE
° Report circulated.
° An appendix had been circulated detailing a summary of
annual conference feedback. I
Broadly speaking it had been a successful Conference. I
e Although this year had increased opportunities to ask
questions or raise issues, the survey indicated that even
more should be done to have more organic discussion.
° There had been a new format for the Sunday, whereby
there had been 6 sessions for workshops. These were well
rated and attended.
° Believed in the future should have fewer sessions and
probably lasting longer.
° Main Conference events on the Monday and Tuesday were
well received by delegates and were well rated.
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° The Postal Affairs panel was least well rated. Was (
disappointed with the role of the Chair.
e Reported that people were really complimentary of the
interactive voting.
° A lot of the work that the Comms Team do is linked into the
work spearheaded by the CEO that had already been
covered earlier in the meeting.
. Trying to foster some positivity with the magazine and
develop a sense of community. Asked that Board members
send in any positive stories that Board members come
across in their area. ACTIONI
° Post Office had offered to provide the NFSP some
communication support, This would be an opportunity for
more work to be carried out such as identifying what
business support is available for members and what
business rate relief schemes are available.
. Reported that Citizens Advice had been carrying out
research among Subpostmasters who operate Outreach €
services to find out what it is like to operate an outreach
service and what extra support could be provided. They are
looking for more participants and will pay £30 to
subpostmasters for an hour's telephone interview. The
research will be conducted by Ipsos Mori, Peter Hall will
circulate the letter from lpsos Mori to the Board and asked
that the Board pass this on to anyone who operates an
Outreach. faction
. Concern raised with the amount of negativity on Social
Media regarding the NFSP. Need to push back with
positivity and what the NFSP have achieved. Peter Hall will
communicate messages and positions to counteract
negativity.
NFSP Forum
° The Moderator's report had been circulated. ¢
7d. UBS
. Reported that UBS, who currently manage the Funds for
both the NFSP and the Board of Benevolence, have stated
they are no longer going to manage the funds as they are
too small for them. Had been given 90 days’ notice of this.
° Have two companies that have been put forward for
consideration to take over the portfolios and they would
both be presenting to the Board for the Board to make a
decision on whom they should appoint to manage the
funds in the future. :
Te. TRUSTEES TO THE BOARD OF BENEVOLENCE REPORT
° The en bloc list for the next quarter was £10,790.00.
. The Fund stood at £1,171,727.18. ¢
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8. AOB
° Asked if it was known when Branch Focus was coming out
in paper form. This was not known.
° Bharat Visani informed the Board that there was going to
be a meeting with the Crown Commissioner in the
Midlands. He asked the Board if they could feedback to
him any issues relating to post offices or retail that will help
in presenting the agenda. {ACTION
. The Board were reminded that the October 19, Board
meeting will commence at 11,00 on the first day. There will
be training on the Tuesday PM.
Sharon Merryweather
Lynda Willoughby
June 2019
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