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STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
FOR USE OF NATIONAL EXECUTIVE COUNCIL OFFICERS ONLY
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF SUBPOSTMASTERS
REPORT OF A
MEETING OF THE
NATIONAL EXECUTIVE COUNCIL
held on
5", 6", 7" January 2004
at
THE GRIMSTOCK COUNTRY HOUSE HOTEL
WARWICKSHIRE
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‘
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Report of a Meeting of the
National Executive Council
Held on the 5™, 6", 77 January 2004
at The Grimstock Country House Hotel, Warwickshire
Present Mr J Jannetta - National President and Chairman
Mr M Baker Mrs J Kendall
Mrs I Bethell Mr D Milner
Mr M Darvill Mr J Morris
Mr N Ferguson Mr J Peberdy
Mrs P Jenkins Mrs S Reeves
Mr C Jones Mr J Willshaw
Mr M Jones Mr P Walsh
In Attendance: Mr C Baker General Secretary
Mr K Davis Senior Assistant General Secretary
Mrs M Stoddart Assistant General Secretary
The PRESIDENT wished everyone present a happy new year and welcomed all
to the first meeting of the Executive Council of 2004.
Apologies for absence had been received from MR BUTLIN.
Alt REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS OF PREVIOUS MEETINGS
Report of the Executive Council meeting of 6", 7" & 8" October 2003.
Resolutions passed at the Executive Council meeting of 6", 7” & 8" October 2003.
Al2 MATTERS ARISING FROM THE REPORTS
MR M BAKER raised a point on Security, whereby a resolution had been passed
that the Executive Council would make comments on the Security document that
had been circulated at the meeting. Post Office Ltd had sent letters to members,
which indicated that the Federation had endorsed Post Office Ltd’s security
policy. As the Executive Council had only decided to make comments it could
not be construed as agreeing to the document. MR M BAKER asked if the
Executive Council were going to refute what the Post Office had informed
members as no resolution had been passed to agree to the document.
MR PEBERDY informed the Council that a meeting planed with Tony Marsh had
been cancelled, as there had not been sufficient feedback from the Executive
Council by the deadline. Therefore, Post Office Ltd had implemented the
document. MR PEBERDY stated that he would raise the issue once again
under A3, Security.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 1
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AI3. REPORT OF THE NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE (
1. Future of the Post Office PO PZ
(a) Universal Banking PO PZ 01
MR PEBERDY informed the Council that various papers had been
circulated relating to Direct Payment. The latest being an update on the
Pensions and Benefit conversion statistics, which appear slightly better
than previously thought. It had been known that Child Benefit figures
would not be good, as this business had already diminished. Pensions,
Jobcentre Plus and other Benefits are moving in greater numbers.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY and members of the Negotiating
Committee had visited EDS to see the process and why Card Accounts
were being rejected. THE GENERAL SECRETARY went on to explain
that the process was cumbersome; the original scan has two forms of ¢
correction before populating the complete template. What can and cannot
be accepted is dependant on a person inputting an item and checking the
screen to see if the final template matches. Representations are still
being made on behalf of the Federation to prevent errors that are not
Subpostmaster errors being attributed to Subpostmasters and whether the
total process could be changed. THE GENERAL SECRETARY added
that following the debate in the House of Commons, an all party group
was set up to look into the effects of Universal Banking. Owen Paterson
MP is the Secretary of the group and the group will look into the process
and how it could be made easier. It remains that EDS do not receive any
monies until the accounts are enlivened; therefore there is no reason why
EDS should want to prevent accounts being processed.
It was put to the Council that at the October Executive Council meeting
there was discussion as to whether rejected applications could be
returned to Subpostmasters. MR PEBERDY said that this could not be ¢
done due to regulations, which included the Data Protection Act. A point
was taised as to the fact that application forms are destroyed after five
days. THE GENERAL SECRETARY informed the Council that after his
visit to EDS he had made representations to Dave Miller requesting thata
fault resolving process be added to the process already in place, to allow
for errors such as the name being in the wrong line to be overridden. THE
GENERAL SECRETARY is still awaiting a response.
There was some concern amongst the Council as Subpostmasters are
now being threatened with disciplinary action for errors and that there is a
need for evidence to prove that the errors are Subpostmaster errors. It
was brought to the attention of the Council that because Line Managers
were in receipt of an incentive bonus for achieving targets on Post Office
Card Accounts some were too forceful in their approach to
Subpostmasters. MR PEBERDY said that he would go back to Post
Office Lid with the intention of resolving this problem. He added that
there was a problem with the Data Protection Act, but this was ¢
Government's problem. A point was raised that the Data Protection Act
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 2
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was only for information that was stored on a computer and if applications
were rejected they were not stored on a computer and therefore should be
returned to the Subpostmaster. MR PEBERDY clarified that because the
forms had been scanned on to the computer the Data Protection Act
would apply.
Clarification was sought on the circulation dated 10 December 2003 on
the Pensions and Benefits Conversion Statistics in relation to Child
Benefit. MR PEBERDY and THE GENERAL SECRETARY talked the
Council through the statistics and how they had been weighted, including
the fact that the weekly and four weekly Child Benefit had been combined
in the statistics and explained that 19.47% bottom line on the conversion
table was the percentage for both on the take up of Post Office Card
Accounts as a percentage of responses,
Changes to the Benefits Payment System
Winter 2003 — Survey PO PZ 01 05
The first results of the survey conducted by MORI on Subpostmasters’
income had been circulated. MR PEBERDY asked that the survey be
analysed by accountants and also felt that a presentation by MORI was
necessary. This was the first result and it would need to be conducted
again in six months time so as to show a better picture. This was taken at
a time when Subpostmasters income may not have fallen, however it was
a possibility that the next six months would reflect a different picture. The
results contained information that could be used in dealings with Post
Office Ltd on other matters. There was concern that the figures did not
reflect a decrease in Subpostmasters’ income. THE GENERAL
SECRETARY informed Council that the information would need to be
analysed to maximise its use. The next six months would also reflect the
effect of Network Reinvention for Subpostmasters with tegard to office
closures. THE GENERAL SECRETARY emphasised the fact that there
would be a need to know what the figures meant and it was necessary for
someone to look at them and analyse and summarise the findings.
THE PRESIDENT raised a question on whether there would be any
additional payment to MORI. MR PEBERDY responded by saying that the
original quote included two surveys and the only additional costs would be
if there was a deviation from the first cut when the second one was.
conducted.
MR M BAKER pointed out that results of the MORI survey showed that a
high percentage of Subpostmasters indicated they did not know or refused
to answer the questions. MR PEBERDY assured the Council that the
Negotiating Committee had planned to ask about this, amongst other
questions when they interviewed MORI.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 3
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(c) Campaign
MR PEBERDY reported that all the papers relating to the Campaign had
been circulated. There had been a debate in the House of Commons, but
unfortunately due to the fact that the Government had a high majority they
were able to use this to their advantage. However, support is continuing
from all parties and also the Cross Party Group has now re-enlivened.
Martin O’Neale MP, who is the Chair of the Trade and Industry Select
Committee, is still not happy. The Federation will continue to engage him
whilst he is in situ in the House of Commons.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY moved on to the ‘Bank at the Post Office’
Campaign. He informed the Council that the packs were at present being
printed for collation and will be ready for an anticipated postal date week
ending 23 January. 16,000 packs, each including 70 pre-addressed I
envelopes are being prepared to be sent to each office. These will be !
forwarded by customers to either the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBOS) or
HSBC. When a sample pack arrives corporate non-members will be €
written to and asked if they would like to join in the Campaign. This would
be a recruitment opportunity. The packs will be mailed to all i
Subpostmasters, including individual non-members, this will also be part
of a recruitment Campaign. The covering letter will suggest that
Subpostmasters collect the batches in from customers and forward them
to the respective banks. The costings are:
46,000 letterheads with appropriate narrative
1,120,000 '/3 of A4 cards with appropriate narrative
1,120,000 white envelopes with one plate change
16,000 mailite envelopes with second class PPI
Inserts £14.400.00
TOTAL £37,719.72
VAT £ 6,600.95
. £44,320.67
Packet Post to go to each individual Subpostmaster . £28,320.00 ¢
A point was raised on why it had taken the length of time it had to
commence the Campaign and why could it not have been conducted over
Christmas. MR PEBERDY responded by saying that resources governed
the commencement. Also that Christmas was too busy for
Subpostmasters to issue the material.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY informed the Council that a message had
been put out to organisations including Women's Institute, Help the Aged,
Age Concern, so that people that do not normally use the Post Office will
be steered by the newsletters to do so.
MRS BETHELL asked if the Executive Council could be provided with a
copy of the card that the customers would be asked to sign. THE
GENERAL SECRETARY responded by saying that the card would read:
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(d)
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“Dear Chief Executive
I the undersigned, would like you to enter into an agreement with Post
Office Ltd to enable me to access my account, with your bank, at the post
office.
If you are unable to help me in this matter I may have to reconsider my
banking arrangements.”
NAME BANK
BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER
DATE SIGNED
Improvements to DTI Investment Grant
MR PEBERDY informed Council that the Post Office Ltd’s £30 million fund
for Subpostmasters to make improvements to their premises was not
being taken up. Negotiations had taken place between Post Office Ltd
and the Negotiating Committee to free up the parameters of what the
money could be used for. Furthermore work had been done in relation to
the £3 million for the Support Fund that the GENERAL SECRETARY had
achieved from Allan Leighton and that it was sufficiently tied down to meet
the DTI and everyone else’s legal requirements on how the money could
be used. The Support Fund is now Officially in place, the Trustees to the
Fund are the same as the Discretionary Fund. The relevant paperwork
had been circulated on 23" October 2003. The first two cases are with
the Trustees at present. MR PEBERDY put to the Council that a
message should be put out to the membership informing them that if they
are a receiving office for Network Reinvention, they should not hesitate in
putting what they wanted to on the original form because improving a
customer's experience can go a long way.
It was raised that there seemed to be some confusion as to who is liable
for the payment of moving equipment when a receiving office makes
improvements. The Network Reinvention Team say that they will pay for
the moving of equipment, however, Romec say that Network Reinvention
is not paying. Also that Retail Line Managers are not aware of the £30
million Fund. Another point was raised on the level of security measures
required when moving equipment such as screens, at that there had been
a case where the ceiling needed to be lowered, which even with match
funding the Subpostmaster could ill afford.
MR PEBERDY in his response stated that he understood from the last
Network Reinvention meeting that Richard Barker had now informed
Retail Line Managers of the availability of the Fund. He added that he
believed the case where the ceiling that needed to be lowered was an
individual case and that he would take it away with him from the meeting
and investigate the matter. It was brought to MR PEBERDY's attention
that this was not an individual case as the Security Manager had said this
was an instruction and would be used across the board.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 5
)
MR PEBERDY informed Council that if it was an original requirement that
improvements were needed to receive customers then the money would
be made available for the moving of Horizon and for Romec. There is a
Government document that states what public funds can be used for and
this must be adhered to, An office must be of a certain standard before
any improvements can be made.
- MRS JENKINS alerted the Council to the fact that the Welsh Development
Funding had been suspended whilst investigations were taking place. It
was believed that this was due to too few people getting too much money
from the fund. She said that she would let the Council have further
information on this when it was available.
Network Reinvention
MR PEBERDY asked the Council if they had any Network Reinvention
matters they would like to bring forward for discussion.
MR FERGUSON raised the issue of a Fund in Northern Ireland set up by
the Department of Social Development. This is for the sum of £°/4 million
over 3 years for Urban Deprived Funding. MR FERGUSON asked MR
PEBERDY if there was any other money available in Northern Ireland for
Subpostmasters apart from this fund.
MR PEBERDY responded by saying that Network Reinvention would flow
through. Urban Deprived grants are being dealt with at Headquarters by
Nadeam Butt and suggested that the question be put to Nadeam Butt.
MR PEBERDY informed Council that Network Reinvention was moving
area by area at a fast pace. Postwatch are not happy and have said that
Network Reinvention is been driven by Subpostmaster desire. MR
PEBERDY has rebuked that statement as the Network Reinvention team
are communicating with all Subpostmasters in an area where the model
suggests that offices could be considered for Network Reinvention, even if
they have not necessarily volunteered to close. It had been the case that
the Network Reinvention team had asked for quick decisions from
Subpostmasters. The Negotiating Committee have informed the Network
Reinvention team that this should not have been happening and it was
decided at the recent Network Reinvention Programme Board that a
message go out to staff to allow Subpostmasters at least two weeks to
make a decision. It should be made known to Subpostmasters that they
should consider their options now as opposed to waiting for the Network
Reinvention Teams to contact them. This message had gone out in the
Subpostmaster and the Courier.
MR PEBERDY has informed Postwatch that if they object to a closure
where a Subpostmaster has indicated his preference to close, they could
cause upset because the Subpostmasters may well have already told staff
and made arrangements for his future.
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MR M BAKER asked MR PEBERDY if he could approach Lynn Hobbs
with regard to whether there would be any financial support when an office
fails to close after the public consultation exercise. Customers could have
already moved their business elsewhere if they understood that the office
was closing. Another problem had arisen whereby Subpostmasters were
being approached by Network Development Managers and told that their
offices were suitable for closure and if the Subpostmaster did not go
ahead they could lose business and would not be considered in the future.
Also Subpostmasters were being told that they would have to meet certain
standards if they remained in the Network.
MR PEBERDY responded by saying that pressure should not be put on
Subpostmasters to close. However, if the model suggested that income
would fall then the Subpostmasters should consider the options. It has
also become apparent that some Subpostmasters are frightened if they do
not accept the offer to close they will upset Post Office Ltd. In response to
MR M BAKER's question MR PEBERDY had raised the issue of financial
support at the last Network Reinvention Programme Board meeting. The
answer they gave was that they would need to see evidence and if the
situation does prove to exist they will try to do something to publicise in
the area that the office will remain open. It has been taken away to be
looked at by the Projects Team, who will report back to the Board.
_MR PEBERDY informed the Council that a three-stage escalation had
been agreed with Postwatch. if Postwatch are not happy with the
information provided initially they are allowed to subject the process to a
further stage, where they are provided with further information, which is at
national level, then to a further level where Peter Carr would become
involved. This could mean that where an office goes through advance
notification and gets to public consultation it could be withdrawn
temporarily and looked at again when the rest of the area had been
considered.
Human Resources PC HR
Post Office Ltd — Pro Sell Coaching Skills Course PC HR 04
MR PEBERDY informed the Council that a letter had been received from
Dave Miller in response to a letter from the GENERAL SECRETARY, as a
Subpostmaster had been threatened that his contract would be withdrawn
if he did not attend the course. Mr Miller's letter clearly indicated that it
was not contractual to attend. There had also been an article by David
Mills in Business Focus that if Subpostmasters did not attend the training
they may not receive new products. The Federation’s reply was that they
had not noticed that the training was product training, but in fact Sales ge
coaching. If it were training then it would be supported. MR BETHELL-
said that the threat had not been rescinded in the correspondence.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 7
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MR M JONES pointed out to the Council that Post Office Ltd have a [becisigg”
Bullying and Harassment policy, however in the letter sent to the
Subpostmaster it stated ‘I have been advised that failure to attend this
course will be seen as you not wanting to be part of the future business of
Post Office Ltd.’ MR M JONES felt that this was bullying, and proposed
that a response be written by the GENERAL SECRETARY to David
Millers letter telling him that it was felt that it was intimidation of a
Subpostmaster. The proposal was seconded. THE GENERAL
SECRETARY requested that he be allowed to find out if there had been
any measurements undertaken on the courses to see if they were of value
and Subpostmasters and their staff benefited from them, as it could
influenced how the letter is written, he confirmed that he would not back
down on the bullying and harassment issue. The decision was a
unanimous one.
3. Mailwork PC MP
(a) Mailwork Pay PC MP 04 iq I
MR PEBERDY stated that correspondence had been circulated on the
acceptance of Mailwork Pay. Letters had been sent to Lee Drohan
regarding payment for parcel deliveries and P739’s. A reply from Chris
Howard had been circulated. The Negotiating Committee was not happy
with his response about the reduction or cessation of residuum payment to
offset any additional parcel work or P730's. It is the Negotiating
Committee’s intention to go back to Chris Howard as Post Office Ltd have
a relationship with Royal Mail, whereby they bill Royal Mail for certain
items and that the Subpostmaster should be paid the correct amount for
this service. The services provided was frozen in the original
Subpostmasters pay along with others, however parcel deliveries and
P739’s have grown out of proportion compared to other services.
(b) I TDS/Single Daily Delivery PC MP 04
o~
MR PEBERDY stated that there had been some concerns over a letter
that gone out relating to ‘local collect’, which is wherby a customer would
be able to collect their mail from a sorting office after 8.30am, and ehether
Mailwork Subpostmasters be asked to provide this service. After a
presentation on Post Office Ltd’s intentions it was clear that ‘local collect’
would not apply to scale payment delivery offices, the letter circulated
clarified this point.
(c) Scottish Bank and Public Holidays/
Easter Arrangements in Northern Ireland PC MP 04
MR PEBERDY referred to a circulation which related to the work the
Negotiating Committee had been doing to achieve more money for
Mailwork Subpostmasters working Public Holidays as Post Office Ltd’s
proposal was to pay the standard excess attendance rate of £4.15 per
hour, whereas Appendix F of the Mailwork Specification states that the
enhanced rate of £25.00 per hour should apply to Bank and Public ¢
holidays.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 8
(a)
(b)
THE PRESIDENT was of the opinion that the Federation were not being
forceful enough with Post Office Ltd. Scottish offices were being forced to
open their Mailwork facilities when the post office was closed as Post
Office Ltd were trying to bring Scottish offices in line with English offices.
This also affected offices in Northern Ireland. MR PEBERDY assured
THE PRESIDENT that the Federation were pressing Post Office Ltd hard
for a satisfactory conclusion on the issue and would carry on fighting to
resolve the situation. The same would apply to holidays in Northern
Ireland as Subpostmasters were doing extra work at Easter. There was
an imminent Mailwork Forum meeting scheduled where further
discussions would take place.
Network PC NW
ADSL Briefing PC NW 06 01
MR PEBERDY informed the Council that correspondence circulated
telated to MR DAVIS seeking clarification on whether Subpostmasters
should be paid for attending their offices earlier to provide access for an
engineer to carry out works on the installation of ADSL lines for Horizon.
The Federation's demand has been forwarded on to Douglas Craig and
Chris Howard by Gareth Hall. A response is awaited.
Securi PC NW 10
Security
MR PEBERDY referred to a letter that had gone out from Post Office Ltd
that inferred the Federation had approved a publication, Security Counts,
which would form part of the Counter Operations Manual. A meeting with
Tony Marsh is planned as the meeting that should have taken place to
discuss the Counter Operations Manual had been postponed, Concern
was raised as to Subpostmasters being forced to have their screens fitted
by certain companies that were not in the local area, which increased the
cost of fitting. There was also a concern as Subpostmasters could be
culpable if there was an incident and a fault was found on the screen, ie a
screw missing.
Suggestions were made that a paper needed to go out to Subpostmasters
clarifying the procedures they must follow when using Alarm 2000. It
became apparent that the earlier installed Alarm 2000 did not allow for
different zones, whereas the ones installed more recently had the zone
facility and that the earlier installations should be re-visited and brought in
line with the more recent installations. It was felt that there needed to be
clarification sought on whether or not is was mandatory to use the daytime
locking facility on the safe.
MR PEBERDY thanked the Council for their suggestions and said that
Alarm 2000 would be put on the agenda for the next security meeting
along with Counter Operations. He informed the Council that Tony Marsh
had recently secured £10 million for security, of which a substantial
amount would go into Alarm 2000, he would ask that some of the money
be used to upgrade the earlier systems. MR PEBERDY informed the
Council that Romec are not the only supplier and that they tender for
work, which meant they needed to tender competitively.
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5. Product Range PC PR
(a) Unsecured Loans PC PR 13 01
MR PEBERDY informed the Council that the pilot on unsecured loans is
currently in progress and the figures are awaited. The current rates apply
to the pilot and David Mills has agreed that negotiations on rates to be
applied would begin on roll-out, which the Negotiating Committee will
bring to the Council when available.
MR M BAKER raised a concern that David Mills had said he wanted to I
develop a call centre, which meant that this may generate one-off j
payments to Subpostmasters if the call centre contacts customers and
sells direct from data that had been supplied by Sub Post Offices.
MR PEBERDY asked MR M BAKER if David Mills had said he would sell ¢€
direct? He added that there was an acceptance from Allan Leighton that
Post Office Ltd were looking at lifetime payments and the Negotiating
Committee’s desire was for lifetime income on all new products. MRM
BAKER answered by saying that David Mills had said Post Office Ltd were
going to have their own call centre and that they would direct sell. MR
PEBERDY assured the Council that the Negotiating Committee were
determined to get behind the figures on the personal loan trial and
address them as necessary.
(b) Overseas Attraction Tickets PC PR 13 04
MR PEBERDY informed the Council that there had recently been a
proposal that Post Office Ltd would sell overseas attraction tickets through
Travelcare at the Co-op. MS STODDART had spoken with Chris
Howard. Further clarification is awaited on this.
(c) Budget Savings Stamps PC PR 15 (
MR PEBERDY informed the Council that the Negotiating Committee were
going to go back to Post Office Ltd to find out more about the accounting
instructions and anything associated with the scheme to allow them to
assess what the offer actually was and if there could be some
improvement, as well as finding out more about the operating instructions.
It was suggested by some members of the Executive Council that it would
be better to promote a plastic swipe card instead of stamps, as stamps
were open to forgeries. MR PEBERDY said that he would raise the
possibility with Post Office Ltd.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 10
(a)
Subpostmasters Contract PC Sc
Error Notices — Unpaid Cheques PC SC 27
MR PEBERDY referred to the correspondence that had been circulated in
respect of a Subpostmaster receiving an error notice when accepting a
cheque that bounces. Post Office Ltd will not return the cheque to the
Subpostmaster until the error notice is paid, they will only send a
photocopy, which the Subpostmaster cannot present to the customer in
requesting payment. Some members of the Council said that even when
the error notice was met cheques were still not being returned to the
Subpostmaster and as cheques needed to be represented within six
months of the date on the cheque the Subpostmaster could not reclaim
the amount.
MR PEBERDY assured the Council that the Negotiating Committee had
pressed Post Office Ltd and have been assured that a new process is in
place whereby the cheque would be returned to the Subpostmaster within
fifteen days of the error notice being met. If the cheque has the correct
information an error notice would not be issued. An error notice would be
issued if the cheque has wrong information, such as incorrect card
number. Post Office Ltd claim that the cheque is their property until the
error notice is met.
Post Office Counters Ltd — Errors/Omissions PC SC 27
MR PEBERDY referred to legal advice that had been sought by the
Federation on whether Post Office Ltd could enforce deduction from
salary for errors omissions. The advice had been circulated, which was it
was felt that Post Office Ltd were entitled to exercise this right under
abatement or set off although the contract does not have a provision in it
for deducting monies from Subpostmasters Pay. MR M BAKER informed
Council that abatement or set off was common law and could be
superseded by statute law, which the contract would be classified under.
He asked that a further request be made to the Solicitor that as it is not in
the contract then common law could not be used. MR PEBERDY
informed Council that Post Office Ltd have said they will not pursue this
method of reclaiming money from a Subpostmaster unless existing
process errors had been exhausted and that it is agreed that the
Subpostmaster is in breach.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY assured the Council that Post Office Ltd
had made the commitment that it would only apply when an error had
been identified to a specific Post Office and the Subpostmaster had
refused to pay. He then suggested that the Federation not speculate as to
ifs, buts and maybe’s, but see what actually happens.
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EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 11
(a)
(b)
(c)
It was brought to the Council's attention that Subpostmasters had been
threatened with three months notice when error notices were issued for
‘wish you were here’. THE GENERAL SECRETARY responded by saying
that Post Office Ltd had written off 20% of the error amount because they
accepted that the operational instructions were confusing. He added that
there was a procedure by means of the Subpostmaster appealing to their
line manager.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY added that he would be prepared to take
forward any individual case where it was deemed that the Subpostmaster
had been treated unfairly. He added he would be grateful for these as
soon as possible.
It was felt that the Federation should write to Post Office Ltd and ask for
firm guarantees on their intentions. It was also felt that Subpostmasters
would agree to errors if they were threatened with loss of contract.
MR M JONES proposed that a letter should be written to Post Office Ltd,
noting the letter that had been sent to Federation members, that the
Federation were consulted but had not been in agreement and that the
Federation would monitor the situation very closely to make sure that
deductions from salary for error notices only apply to Subpostmasters who
have agreed the error notices, but refuse to pay. The proposal was
seconded. The decision was unanimous at the vote.
Subpostmasters Pay PC SP
Pay 2003 PC SP 2003
MR PEBERDY informed the Council that there had been verbal
representations made to Post Office Ltd and that the General Secretary
would be writing to the Chief Operating Officer, David Miller to get the
payslips clarified, as it was not easy to assess pay from the payslips the
way they are currently formulated. The Pay Revision Booklet is now
available. He added the helpline were not helpful when Subpostmasters
ring them.
Increase in ATM Payment Rates PC SP 01
MR PEBERDY referred to correspondence that had been circulated on the
increase in ATM payment rates as a consequence of the convenience fee
increase. The Executive Council have never agreed a rate for ATM
payment. Any decision would be a commercial decision for the individual
Subpostmaster. The Negotiating Committee will inform Post Office Ltd
that the Federation have no comment.
E-Top Up’s PC SP 01
MR PEBERDY informed Council that it was the Negotiating Committee’s
intention to write to Post Office Ltd and inform them that they did not
consider E-Top Up’s to be a core product and that it was up to the
individual Subpostmaster to make their own decision as to which way they
wish to continue serving customers with E-Top Up's.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 12
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(a) Littlewoods Home Shopping Trial PC SP 01
MR PEBERDY referred to an e’mail from Gareth Hall, NFSP Liaison
Manager, which showed that the trial, which started on 5 September and
ran to 21 November had resulted in 2868 applications for Litthewoods
catalogues of which 299 customers had gone on to buy goods. This
triggered a payment of £10.00 to the Subpostmaster. The Negotiating
Committee considers the rate to be an interim one and if it rolls-out then
they reserve the right to negotiate accordingly with factual information
from the pilot.
(e) I Smartpost/Postage Labels PC SP 01
MR PEBERDY stated that there had been a meeting with the Smartpost
User Group and the Negotiating Committee were still awaiting a meeting
with Chris Guy, Client Manager, to make further representations on an
increase for Smartpost Labels.
MR DAVIS informed Council that there was one outstanding issue from i
Smartpost, which was with regard to changing the process. This was so {
that it would be possible to stay in Smartpost rather than ‘return to }
customer’ after each transaction. After a poll on views as to which was
the preferred option the result showed that there was an even division in
the figures. Post Office Ltd have said that it would have to be left as it was
or change it, once changed it could not be changed back. Post Office Ltd
are now awaiting a decision from the Executive Council.
MR WILLSHAW proposed that the system remain in Smartpost. The
proposal was seconded.
Concern was raised as to multi-position counters and if one position were
in Smartpost would another position be able to pick it up. MR DAVIS
explained the system at the moment meant that you could use the system
on multi-position counters and switch from one to the other. It was put to
Mr Davis that he seek clarification. MR WILLSHAWS proposal was
carried after a vote.
(fy Bunches PC SP 01
Correspondence had been circulated and MR PEDERDY informed the
Council that the Federation had declined an offer to meet with the Client
Manager at Post Office Ltd because the product was a non-contractual
non-core product and there was an alternative product available to
Subpostmasters.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 13
(9)
(h)
@
GMPTE Travel Smartcards & Other Schemes PC SP 01
MR PEBERDY referred to correspondence circulated, whereby Post
Office Ltd had been working with Greater Manchester Public Transport
Executive on their Travel Smartcard Scheme. He said the scheme was
unlikely to be implemented before 2005 as some of the smaller bus
companies in the surrounding area are not prepared to fund the capital.
Excess Attendance PC SP 02 03
MR PEBERDY addressed the Council, indicating that the correspondence
circulated was clarification of what Scheduled and Unscheduled Excess
Attendance was and when it was paid. The rates have been published in
a definitive document, which has been sent to all Subpostmasters
explaining when they can claim.
Branch Telephony — Split Billing PC SP 02 06
MR PEBERDY informed Council that the Negotiating Committee had
secured from Post Office Ltd a list of telephone numbers that are being
used for business calls in respect of the split billing arrangement. These
have been circulated. A request has been made to ascertain what
mechanism will be available for regular business calls by individual
Subpostmasters. A reply is still awaited. Mailwork office phone numbers
are not included in the list as Mailwork Subpostmasters currently claim by
submitting bills to the P & O.
Pay Review Action Group PC SP 09
MR PEBERDY informed Council that the Pay Review Action Group were
working with Post Office Ltd on a revised payment system. Post Office
Ltd have downloaded the present Subpostmasters payment system and
removed data such as ‘Your Guide’. The current payment system is
Subpostmaster specific and not office specific, as when an office changes
hands a new payment is created. The Pay Review Action group are not
yet in a position where they can open up the negotiations to the
Negotiating Committee or membership at present as work is still
continuing.
MR PEBERDY added that the Pay Review Action Group are looking at
other types of offices including the Rural Community Network restricted
hours and what impact a new payment system would have on the
commercial Network. There is sill a lot of work to cover and a further
meeting is planned to advance work on the commercial sector and to see
what the results show after cuts had been made from the data: the effect
on the core payment and interaction with the transaction payment.
Several members of the Executive Council shared their frustration at the
length of time negotiations were taking. MR MILNER proposed that the
Executive Council submit a pay claim for April 2004. The proposal was
seconded.
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MR PEBERDY confirmed that the Negotiating Committee had met on
Sunday 4" January and had decided to submit a draft letter for the pay
claim at the March Executive Council meeting. THE PRESIDENT asked
MR MILNER if in his proposal he intended the pay claim go in immediately
rather than at the March meeting. MR MILNER Proposed that the pay
claim be discussed at the current meeting. MR PEBERDY pointed out
that it would be difficult to write a letter at the current meeting with correct
factual information and asked that the GENERAL SECRETARY and
Negotiating Committee be given time to compose the letter.
MR PEBERDY assured the Council that Allan Leighton had already
agreed that £10 million would be made available to Subpostmasters, thus
ensuring that there would not be losses. The Pay Review Action Group
do not believe this will deliver a 10-20 percent increase for
Subpostmasters and that at the next Pay Review Action Group meeting it
will be put to Post Office Ltd that a figure of nearer £100 million would be
needed to cover the increase needed.
MR MILNER withdrew his proposal and Proposed ‘As a matter of urgency
this Executive Council remit to the Negotiating Committee the work of
identifying a pay claim for Federation members to be submitted to Post
Office Ltd before the March Executive Council meeting’. The proposal
was seconded.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY made reference to the graphs on pay I
attached to October 2003 minutes and that an amalgamation of 6 & 7 was I
the preferred option. He added the process had been time consuming,
but Post Office Ltd are now following the same agenda. There had also
been a lot of work done on the 3-tier system, which are core and sales
motivated payments and what products should go into core and sales.
Time has been spent on the urban commercial offices system as how the
system would be relevant to the rural network. THE GENERAL
SECRETARY added that there was not enough time to download the
information for the whole network, which meant there would be a need to
look at the figures that were available. He then confirmed that a letter
would go to Post Office Ltd informing them that because the pay review
was taking longer than expected they should expect a pay claim. The
letter would need to be formulated to secure as much money as possible
for Subpostmasters.
MR PEBERDY shared with the Council the draft agenda for the next Pay
Review meeting with Allan Leighton, which was:
a) To share progress to date on options modelled at earlier
recommendations.
b) Confirmation of funding available.
c) Timescale for completing the review.
d) Communications.
MR PEBERDY said the meeting would be an opportunity to get some
answers from Allan Leighton on when he perceives his team to finish the
work so as agreements can be made.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 15
(k)
THE NATIONAL PRESIDENT asked MR PEBERDY for clarification that
the Negotiating Committee would submit the pay claim sooner rather than
later. MR PEBERDY assured THE PRESIDENT that if MR MILNER’s
proposal was carried and remitted to the Negotiating Committee a pay
claim letter would be sent before the end of January.
MR MILNER put his proposal, which was, ‘It is a matter of urgency that
this Executive Council remit to the Negotiating Committee a pay claim that
be put to Post Office Ltd by the end of January rather than leaving it to the
March meeting. The vote was carried unanimously.
Opening Hours PC SP 2003
MR PEBERDY announced that there was a proposed trial for 5-10 offices
on different opening hours. The Negotiating Committee had been asked
to suggest offices as volunteers as well as asking MR M BAKER if any
offices in his region wanted to participate in the trial, this was because the
idea had been discussed at a meeting in Bristol. MR PEBERDY referred
to correspondence that had been circulated, in which Sue Huggins had
indicated that there would be terms of reference, which could have been
based on BTH’s per annum and must have a host retail business. This
was not acceptable and therefore the terms of reference in the letter do
not apply at present. MR PEBERDY added that discussions would take
place at the next Pay Review Action Group meeting to get the trial up and
running.
MR PEBERDY went to say that so far there were eight volunteers who
wanted to participate in the trial. The trial would allow for flexibility as
some of the village post offices may want to change their hours to longer
or even to incorporate a siesta, for example close between 2pm and 5pm
and open from 5pm to 9pm. The intention is to reduce costs, both for the
post office and the retail side and to see what impact it has on income.
Allan Leighton has agreed that no Subpostmaster would lose any money
and that it would need to be a win win situation for both the
Subpostmaster and Post Office. MR PEBERDY said he hoped the pilot
would go ahead with the Executive Council's approval.
MR M BAKER shared his concerns that Post Office Ltd were going to
make money from a change in opening hours. The intentions of the
meeting in Bristol was that a change of opening hours whether shorter,
longer or different was so that the Subpostmaster mitigate his rising costs
that made his hours more profitable, this included staff costs, because
remuneration was not going up in line with the costs of running offices.
He could then close his office at quite times and open at busier times.
MR BAKER was concerned that Post Office Ltd may reduce Assigned
Office Payment and asked that this be addressed at the Pay Review
Action Group.
MR PEBERDY read out the last paragraph of Sue Huggins letter dated
30" December, in which it stated ‘In the meantime, we are not currently
engaging in a proactive campaign of reducing hours amongst non-
resigning branches’. The Negotiating Committee will go back to Sue
Huggins on this, because as far as the Negotiating Committee are
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 16
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concerned the agreement with Post Office Ltd on the ability to change an
offices hours or status is contained in ACC 46/2002. The Negotiating
Committee believe that Sue Huggins has informed Retail Transfer
Advisors that when an office resignation goes in, Salford reviews the
hours. The Negotiating Committee believes this is to find out how much
top-up payment is being paid and reducing the hours accordingly so as no
top up is paid. This is not what should happen and is of detriment to
members as it could affect the Price agreed by the resigning
Subpostmaster for his/her business, This will be taken up with Post Office
Ltd.
MR DAVIS referred to the ACC 46/2002, which Sue Huggins claims gives
her the right to change hours, but in fact relates to the contrary. He read
out the relevant section as follows:
Introduction — Restricted Post Office Branches
i
I
I
During the early 1990’s Restricted Opening Post Office branches were I
introduced as a solution where there was a difficulty filling a vacancy for a I
full time office. This applied to outlets with volumes between 50,000 and i
125,000 units. MR DAVIS then read another section of the ACC. ‘In cases I
where we cannot fill the vacancy as full time, the vacancy should be I
advertised as a Restricted Opening branch on the basis of the revised I
banding calculated by the payroll team’. MR DAVIS added that both
quotes referred to where a vacancy could not be filled, There had been a
case in Springfield where the Subpostmistress had found a buyer to take
on her office full time and on counselling had been told that the hours in
her office would be reduced. As far as the Federation are concerned the
ACC does not authorise this.
MR M BAKER put to the Council that if Subpostmasters were thinking of
selling their office they should be advised to request a pre-resignation
interview. He asked that an article be Placed in the ‘Subpostmaster’
Journal and go out as a BSC. He added that if members are notified of
change of hours they let the Federation know.
() Review of Banking Rates of Pay PC SP 01
MR PEBERDY informed the Council that the Negotiating Committee had
for some time attempted to get information needed for a six-month review
on banking from Post Office Ltd. He told Council that Post Office Ltd
have now brought in Paul Williams as a dedicated person to collate the
information needed. The Negotiating Committee are now canvassing
dates for the first meeting to open the review for the banking payment
system.
8. Insurance CLIN
(a) Home Insurance CL IN 02 01
MR PEBERDY referred to the correspondence that had been circulated,
which was information on the Home Insurance re-launch and the figures
showed that sales have topped 1500 in the fifth week of the trial. The trial
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 17
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has been extended to the end of March and Subpostmasters receive £5
for each policy issued. Confirmation has been received that although the
product is on the Internet it cannot be sold from there. The previous home
insurance product had now ceased and is with another provider.
a
9. Department of National Savings CLNS
(a) National Savings and Investments (NS&I) Card Accounts CLNS 07 03
MR PEBERDY told Council that the Negotiating Committee had discussed
NS&l and were of the opinion that it was not what the Executive Council
wanted. The GENERAL SECRETARY put this in writing to Dave Miller on
9 December. Post Office Ltd had brought out a press release on
memoview on the product. MR PEBERDY added that a letter was
received from Chris Howard dated 23 December requesting a meeting,
which has now been arranged for 26" January. The Negotiating
Committee will tell Post Office Ltd that Subpostmasters will not offer the
product for the 10p for a deposit and 12.5p for a withdrawal, as at present ¢
they receive 32p and 38p for the ordinary account.
MR M BAKER raised the issue that if the Negotiating Committee were
going to negotiate a better rate for the product then the same should apply
to other products such as Barclays automated withdrawals. THE
GENERAL SECRETARY in his response said that is precisely why this
stance was being taken. However, the reason for low pay on present
automated banking was because there was a Link interchange fee and it
appears that there is no interchange fee for the NSI product. He added
that a firm line was being taken as this could this could establish a
benchmark for the new financial service products that become available.
MR PEBERDY said that the product also had ATM availability and Link
functionality, which meant the product would be used elsewhere and drew
the Council's attention to an email received from Gareth Hall which stated
‘Access will continue via post office branches, as well as by telephone, the
Link network of ATM’s and by post’. (
MR C JONES raised concern that if Negotiations were to take time would
the Federation advise members not to conduct the transactions. THE
GENERAL SECRETARY responding by saying that before advising
members not to conduct transactions it would be necessary to find out if it
could be construed as industrial action and that it was up to the Executive
Council which way they want to proceed. MR C JONES proposed that ‘in
the event that the negotiations of 26'" January prove unsuccessful we
advise our members not to conduct the new National Savings Bank
transactions’. The proposal was seconded.’
MR PEBERDY stated that the Federation would need to be careful in what
actions they take as if the product was a core product it will be contractual
to offer it and must insure that the members are not put in breach of
contract. He added that Post Office Ltd still communicate very late in the
day with the Federation and it appeared that they did not want the same
relationship as in the past because they perceive the Federation as a
trade union. He felt that the Negotiating Committee should proceed with
necessary caution and take advice from the Council.
om
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE A8
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MRS KENDALL spoke against the motion be saying that it was necessary
to see what the outcome of the meeting scheduled for 26" January was.
She also felt that if the product was rejected it could affect relationships
with other banks who the Federation are presently encouraging to make
their services available at Post Offices. MR M BAKER said that the
Proposal should contain the words ‘subject to treating this as industrial
action’.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY alerted the Council to the fact that if the
motion was passed it would be likely to result in the taking of industrial
action. MR C JONES withdrew his motion. THE GENERAL
SECRETARY said that a successful outcome would be sought on the 26"
January. He added that advice would be sought to see where the
Federation stood if the offer was not acceptable.
MR DARVILL asked if MR PEBERDY could go to the NS&I and ask them
to remove the Link element. MR PEBERDY in his response said that he
would get the facts although NS&I being the client have probably made
the decision to go down the route of Link. MR FERGUSON asked MR
PEBERDY if he could find out how much Post Office Ltd were getting for
the NS&I transaction bearing in mind that Basil Larkin had accepted bad
deals in the past - could Allan Leighton and David Mills be doing the
same. MR PEBERDY said that this would be done.
Royal Mail CL RM
Smartstamp CL RM 03
MR PEBERDY shared his concern as to what the consequences would be
with regard to the Internet stamps as he had received a telephone call
from a colleague who prints bar codes on adhesive labels for Royal Mail.
Royal Mail has asked him to attend a meeting to discuss a security label
for postage.
MR DAVIS had received a telephone response to his letter to Gareth Hall
dated 26" November on the results of the Smartstamp trial. Post Office
Ltd had not replied to the letter as the trial was due to end 26" August
2003, but it did not start until December. MR DAVIS has been assured
that he will be provided with the information as soon as it is available.
MR PEBERDY informed the Council that the Negotiating Committee were going
to discuss the Federation's relationship with Post Office Ltd and will report to the
Council any further concerns. He added that it could be that Post Office Ltd felt
they had won something in the pay round as Post Office Ltd do not think the
Federation add any value to them and that their attitude had definitely hardened.
There being no further items to discuss under this section of the Agenda, MR
PEBERDY requested that A3 be moved.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004 PAGE 19
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Al4 CONFERENCE MATTERS (
(a) _ Report of the National Executive Council I
I
The draft Annual Report was considered, amended and agreed.
(b) I Conference Grants to Delegates (UFF)
Conference Grants to delegates agreed to be increased from £140 (for 2003) { DECISION
to £150 for 2004, but abated by £10 to contribute towards the cost of gala
dinner at Annual Conference on Tuesday 11 May.
A/S (A) REPORT OF THE PUBLICITY & DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE
1. Report of Previous Meeting
MRS JENKINS (Chairman of the P&D Committee) drew attention to the €
circulated report of the Committee’s meeting on 27-28 November and lighted
points in the Committee’s deliberations in a Powerpoint presentation (copy
attached).
2. Annual Conference
(a) Annual Conference 2004 FM AC
Slides 2-5. Following additional points noted:
Gala Dinner, Tuesday 11 May 2004
7pm Civic Reception
7.45 pm Dinner
9.30 pm Speeches — Honorary members
10.30 Dancing
iam Finish
e £40 nominal charge for dinner to be deduced from Delegates Grant (£150)
* £10 to be charged for spouses/partners and branch guests
© £22 for other visitors (eg, exhibitors)
Exhibition - It was agreed that it should be left to the P&D Committee to
decide whether it was appropriate for Demasar to be invited to exhibit.
Church Service — Executive Officers were advised that it was some distance
from the Grand Hotel to the Central Church, Tor Hill which might be too far for
some to walk.
(b) I Annual Conference 2005 FM AC 2005
Scarborough 16-18 May
Slide 6. Scarborough Spa Complex again booked but the NFSP had written
commenting on 2003 Conference, ie, rain coming through roof, poor sound 4
quality, lack of air conditioning. é
PAGE 20 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
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(c) Annual Conference 2006 (Venue & dates) FM AC 2006
Slide 6. Provisional bookings noted, matter left in abeyance.
(d) Review and Format of Conference Motion 78/2003
Gwent Branch & SWSW: “That this Conference instructs the Executive Council to change the
format of Annual Conference to reflect the major changes which are occurring in the network’.
Slide 7: Committee undertaking consultative process to gain input from
Regions/Branches Jetting representatives make their own suggestions and
contributions. These to be collated to formulate a consensus
tecommendation. The meeting in North East had been very helpful —
representatives had thought Conference current confrontational when it ought
to be constructive, professional and policy-making. Motions at Conference
seen as often being based on a personal viewpoint and not suitable for
national debate. 2 further meetings were planned: one in north with Scottish,
Northern Ireland, NWNW and Midland representatives invited, one in London
with London, SE, SWSW and NTEA representatives invited. A further report
to be given at March EC.
In reply to a suggestion from THE CHAIRMAN that regions be asked to
submit their thoughts via their Standing Orders representatives in writing,
MRS JENKINS considered face-to-face dialogue more useful. If changes
were to be made it would be unfair not to have gained the best possible input.
As outlined in the P&D’s previous report ,it had been intended to consult each
region individually but that had been curtailed into 2 more meetings as
described. There were cost implications but the feeling of the P&D
Committee was that in the long run it would be well worth it.
3. Membership FM MS
(a) I NFSP Members Website FM PB 08
Slide 8: The website went life on 1° October and members had received their
membership card during that month. It was not possible at present to count j
the number of hits on the website but, to date, the number of members who
had registered on the site was only 520, ie, only 5% of membership.
Suggested that as a “fanfare” an article on website should be put in “The
Subpostmaster” together with the website address highlighted in every
edition. MR WALSH said if the article was written he would be happy for it to
be included.
The site was linked to Management Advisory for members to gain access to
advice on employment law, etc. Also suggested for the future were other
links, eg, to Retail Academy (but a link back from the Retail Academy, or other
organisation, to www.subpostmasters.info would not be suitable because the
members’ website was exclusive to members. There could, however, be links
back to NFSP public website www. subpostmasters.org.uk)
PAGE 21 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
(b) Recruitment FM MS 03
Slide 9: Another mailout to non-members to take place soon. Philip Bloor
now in charge of membership and statistics. Suggested there should be a
meeting between Mrs Jenkins, Philip Bloor and David Beaumont about
checking statistics on non-members - following which it might be possible for
recommendations/information to be given to other Branch or Membership
Secretaries to help them undertake a similar exercise.
4. Promotional and Publicity FM PP
(a) I “Subpostmasters 2003” Exhibition — review FM PP 01
Slide 10: Recommended that rostering was best method of manning the
stand and continued for 2004.
(b) “Subpostmaster” Exhibition — future strategy FM PP 01
Slide 11: Attention drawn to the report of the meeting with Trades Exhibitions
on 19"" November and recommendation of Wembley venue for 2004; Trades
Exhibitions to ascertain availability of NEC for 2005 - not necessarily in
October. Article to be put in “the Subpostmaster” and circulated BSC asking
for suggestions of niche products/companies interested in exhibiting with,
perhaps, an incentive prize or gift. Suggestion of social function — possibly to
coincide with the “Sub Post Office of the Year’ with possible
transport/accommodation deal. Recommended that Nadeam Butt should
meet with the P&D Committee to discuss.
(c) Carrier Bags FM PP
Slide 12: Difficulties in distributing plastic carrier bags which, in bulk, were
heavy. MRS JENKINS had asked Nadeam to see if a company, such as
Magsons, might undertake distribution. Nadeam reported back that Magsons
were looking at it and hoping to get something in their catalogue for January —
but not necessarily with NFSP logo. Allan Leighton also mentioned
something about carrier bags at “Subpostmaster 2003”. Further
developments awaited.
Executive Officers reported that it was thought Magsons could be in
difficulties, it was closing its Northampton Branch.
(d) Quarterly flyer
Slide 12: Logistics problems of how to get sufficient copies of subpostmasters
who might want every customer to pick up a copy. Other subpostmasters
thought flyers a nuisance and littered shop. Keith Nichols to be written
explaining massive print runs and distribution facilities needed and why
Federation did not recommend taking up suggestion.
PAGE 22 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
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(e) Posters FM PB 02
Slide 13: At the beginning of 2003 posters were included in “The
Subpostmaster’ journal ~ ie, “As Easy as ABC” “As Easy as Pie” and then
“Bank at your local Post Office”. Committee considered various wordings for
new poster and recommended “Does YOUR bank let you collect cash here?
Ask us today”. This would support the targeting of major banks to allow
customers to use their local post office for banking transactions. However, I
final design of poster still to be agreed.
(f) “The Subpostmaster” FM PB 01
Recent difficulties experienced because of Georgina Daly having had an
operation. MR PETER WALSH (editor) had indicated that he would not be
standing as editor at Conference 2004. Matter left in abeyance — see Editor's
Report.
5. Training FM MS 04
Slide 14: MRS JENKINS said that there had been 28 response bookings for
training workshops. The majority of students opted for one specific module.
The time gap between the introductory workshops and modules was
deliberate because of the Christmas period.
MR JANNETTA queried payments being made — ie, to Retail Academy to
provide the training by another source as it was a commercial organisation.
MRS JENKINS replied Retail Academy had commercial backing of Further
Education Colleges and was made up of a number of organisations including {
private sector and trade organisations. All were partners in the Retail i
Academy including the Federation. The funding for the pilot had been I
obtained from the Learning Skills Council following a successful bid for
European funding and most the amount of it was for the training itself and
went direct to the Colleges involved in the pilot. Subpostmasters only had to i
Pay a registration fee, they did not pay for training. The Retail Academy had
money for providing learning materials, administration and set-up costs.
Accreditation for the training was from City & Guilds following an on-line test
at the end of the modules. If 7 modules were successfully undertaken there
was a “Certificate in Retail Practice’. This was not an NVQ2 but was similar
to it and was at that level.
6. Conference Resolutions 2003
Motion 75 South Wales & South West Regional Council
“That this Conference authorises the P&D Citee fo insert appropriate publicity
material into the journal, for copying by members, and to invoice branches for the
additional costs on a per capita basis.
Motion 76 Swansea Branch & SWSWRC
“That this Conference instructs the Executive Council to initiate a publicity campaign
to encourage customers already using a bank account for their Pension to transfer to
the Post Office.”
Motion 78 Gwent Branch & SWSWRC (see Agenda item no 2(d) above)
PAGE 23 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
Motion 79 Gwent Branch & SWSWRC
“That this conference urges the Executive Council to allocate specific human and
financial resources to provide support for rural members in the form of a “rural
business officer” where appropriate in each Region.
Motion 80 Northumberland & Tyneside Branch & NERC
Slides 15 and 16: Action on all the Resolutions allocated to the P&D
Committee fully reported.
Resolution 78 - still work in progress, Committee not yet in a position to
make a detailed report to the Executive Council or in the Annual Report.
Resolution 79 — verbatim Report of Conference did not make requirements of
Resolution clearer. P&D had taken unusual step of writing to each Region to
get their view. Once responses received it was hoped proposals could be put
forward, however, in the middle of EC elections trying to implement any
fundamental changes might be premature. Therefore, work in progress.
NFSP MEMBERS’ HANDBOOK
MR PEBERDY commented that members had been asking for copies of the
Members Handbook and asked whether it was the intention to publish this
again.
MRS JENKINS replied that this was an item on the Committee’s agenda but
she herself had not received any requests for a copy of the handbook; much
of the material was available on the Federation members website.
After a discussion the Council remitted the publication of a new Members’
Handbook to the P&D Committee for further consideration in order to report
back at the next EC meeting.
re Dates of EC Meetings
March 14-17 2004 Grimstock Country House Hotel
June 21-23 2004 Grimstock Country House Hotel
Oct 4-6 2004 Grimstock Country House Hotel
It was proposed, seconded and approved that the January 2005 meeting of
the EC should commence after the weekend after the bank holiday weekend,
ie Monday 10, Tuesday 11 and Wednesday 12 January 2005.
THE CHAIRMAN voiced a complaint about the service experienced during the
current stay at the Grimstock Country House Hotel: no chef on duty in
evening, some people having to wait for their dinner, portions too small, hotel
staff seemed less than happy.
It was recommended that an alternative venue for Executive Council meetings
be researched.
The Report of the P&D Committee was accepted as reported and presented.
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DECISION
DECISION.
PAGE 24 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
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{B) I FEDERATION TRUSTEES REPORT
In the absence of the Chairman of the Federation Trustees (Mr Alan Butlin)
THE GENERAL SECRETARY advised that the Trustees had met on 5
January. It was reported that maintenance work on Evelyn House would be
undertaken over 2 weekends in January.
The Trustees had looked at the broker’s advice - not conceming the advice
itself but the fundamental change in the relationship with Laing Cruickshank
because of what amounted to a 50% increase in fees, with a minimum annual
payment of £8,000. It had been agreed that Mr Philip Bloor should ascertain
for the Federation what other brokers charged for a similar service. (He
confirmed in response to a query, the similar action was being undertaken on
behalf of the Trustees to the Board of Benevolence)
The Report of the Federation Trustees was accepted. DECISION
AI6 SPECIAL MATTERS
(a) Finance
Treasurer’s Report FLAC 02
review and his circulated report. He stated he was relatively happy with the
situation of being in the black with a surplus in funds arising from commercial
income. This was good because the more commercial income there was the
less the Federation had to rely on subscription income. However, as a
membership organisation it was important to be prudent with expenses as
money must be accounted for to members. I
DECISION i
MR JANNETTA, the National Treasurer, referred to the interim financial I
{
The National Treasurer’s Report was accepted,
(b) Journal
Editor’s Report FM PB 01
MR WALSH, Editor, apologised for the late circulation of the report which had
been sent to Federation HQ but, because of an oversight there, there had -
been a delay in passing it on. He mentioned that he was pleased that the
Costs of production of the journal had been kept down. Whilst he had enjoyed
undertaking the task of editorship he would be standing down from the post
inn 2004. He thanked everyone for their help and support.
MRS KENDALL, on behalf of Executive Officers, said she was sorry to hear of
the decision and recommended that notice of this should be given in the next
edition of the journal.
PAGE 25 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING - JANUARY 2004
MR WALSH confirmed to MR PEBERDY that the report on training had simply
been reproduced following receipt of copy from Mr Logan of POL.
MR PEBERDY wished to place on record a vote of thanks to Mr Walsh for his
time as editor, for his good humour in what was not an easy job.
The Report of the Editor was accepted. DECISION
AI7 CONFERENCE RESOLUTIONS PRIOR TQ 2003
No report.
Al8 CONFERENCE RESOLUTION 2003
Category “C” Resolutions — 47, 63, 64 & 67
Resolution 55 Uniform Business Rate PO PZ 01 07
As circulated.
AI9. MOTIONS TO THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL
No motions.
ANO DEPARTMENTAL CORRESPONDENCE
(A) FOR DISCUSSION
Post Office Ltd
4. Network PC NW
a) Extended Use of Horizon Trial PC NW 06 01
MR DAVIS said when Horizon had first started there had been concern that
subpostmasters could no longer give out-of-hours service. He outlined the
trial allowing out-of-hours service on Horizon for bill payment, pre-payment
tokens and Quantum and E-Top-Ups.
MR MARK BAKER had been told the kit would be available for purchase and
he asked whether it would facilitate personal banking.
MR DAVIS said the circulated correspondence was the extent of information
to hand which made no mention of purchase.
b) Smartpost User Group PC NW 06 10
The correspondence was the outputs for the Smartpost User Group which
included a list of fixes and future enhancements. The EC had already
discussed the “Stay in Smartpost” or “Serve the Customer’ issue. He had
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a
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PAGE 26 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
been at pains to explain to the POL team that even with the standing down
the user group, the NFSP hoped it would still hear what was happening with
Smartpost as it would develop and grow. He had been assured that would
happen but by direct contact.
MR WILLSHAW asked that a letter be sent to Kam Matharu and Alastair
Taverner thanking them for the useful time they had spent on the group.
MR DAVIS said he would do so and had already expressed appreciation to
them publicly.
c) CIT Delivery Standards Review PC NW 09 03
Nothing to add to the correspondence, no reports back had been received.
d) Track and Trace Trial in Hull PC NW 09 03
Nothing to add to the correspondence, no teports back had been received.
e) = NFSP/NSCC Quarterly Meeting PC NW 09 06
f) Logistics Support Forum PC NW 09 06
Minutes from the Quarterly Meeting had been circulated, also of a meeting
with Logistics Support at Swindon which indicated that the ownership of the
National Secure Stock Centre had been passed to Logistics Support but an
assurance had been given that there would be loss of standards. In future,
the Hemel Hempstead and meetings with Swindon and with Dermott Martin,
who managed the relationship on behalf POL, would be combined. The next
meeting was scheduled later in January. Despite the problems, the forum
did allow for the NFSP’s views to be sought and received.
g) Secure Stock Order Forms PC NW 09 06
Information had been supplied at short notice. At the NESP’s request, it
attempted to make the order form Horizon-friendly, ie, fitting with that
system. MR DAVIS had received comments back from Executive Officers
one of which was a query as to why there should be 4 versions, This was
because of the regional stamps. Christmas had delayed progress but there
would shortly be a meeting at Heme! Hempstead when suggestions received
would be put forward.
h) Changes to Value Stock Ordering PC NW 09 06
This correspondence concerned minimum order quantities and indicated that
POL had not accept the NFSP’s view on the issue. The question was
where/how then to progress the NFSP’s view. Concerns were around the
volume and value of stock held in offices, security and the impact on quality of
stock held over a period of time. POL’s opinion was that cost-effectiveness of
distribution was for them more important.
PAGE 27 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
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ACTION
MR PEBERDY reported on the length of time for submission of orders from
4/5 days, he had been advised by branches that that “window’ had changed
together with the change of delivery date to, in some cases, a Wednesday.
MR DAVIS undertook to address the issues when next at the meeting in
Hemel Hempstead.
MR DARVILL reported that some receiving offices had not had sufficient stock
over Christmas there having been great difficulty in getting “specials”.
2. Subpostmasters Contract Pc sc
a) Christmas and New Year Arrangements PC SC 0501
MR DAVIS asked for sight of the printouts which some Executive Officers
had in their possession as the NFSP had to go back in the post-Christmas
review and make POL aware of what had happened. What was needed was
evidence to show how few transactions were undertaken on the day/s in
question.
MR FERGUSON thought POL would already be in possession of all the
evidence needed through access to Horizon system.
MR MARK BAKER said many subpostmasters had already sent their
transactions logs to Mr Mills. The NFSP should make him fully aware of
what a “massive shot in the foot” he had directed at POL’s working
relationship with subpostmasters. Members took great exception to being
forced to open on the 27 December and misinformed as to the reason for it.
MR PEBERDY pointed out that in 2004 there would be an entirely different
situation, ie, a long weekend. The Horizon system would give an overall
picture for the recent Christmas period but the experience of individual
offices/areas varied; for instance, his own office had been quiet on that day
but on New Year’s Eve at 4 pm it had been particularly busy.
MR MILNER believed POL should not dictate to subpostmasters in this
situation, but allow them to decide for themselves. His own office having
been very busy on New Year’s Eve morning but extremely quiet in the
afternoon and to have closed at 12.30 would have been ideal.
MR WALSH commented that subpostmasters in his area had been told
Royal Mail would clear the post but, in fact, it had been brought back
because there was nowhere to take it to in Reading.
When the review report was made it would include such instances, MR
DAVIS promised, and the suggestion would be made that what should
happen in 2004 should be along the lines suggested by Mr Milner.
A Retail Line Manager had informed MR WILLSHAW that 100 offices in the
SE had not opened on the Saturday.
PAGE 28 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING : JANUARY 2004
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3. Subpostmasters Pay PC SP
a) DVLA Temporary First Licence PC SP 01
Nothing to add to the correspondence.
Post Office Clients
4, Foreign Exchange CL FX
a) Bureau Automation/Expansion CLFX01
Having put Bureau de Change on to Horizon, the email of 3 December I
indicated an extension of the network for full on-demand service and Euros
and Dollars. Information was awaited on results of the trial.
MRS JENKINS’ office had been involved in the trial and she reported it had
been a great success.
5. Lotteries CLLO
a) Camelot GVT Removals CLLO 01
Correspondence concerned removal of terminals. The process was subject I
to appeal but MR DAVIS could advise that 2,000 of the terminals in post I
offices had very low lottery takings per week.
MR PEBERDY asked that sub post offices where terminals were removed
should be given an appropriate notice to display in order to make it clear to
customers that it was an office which was jin contravention of any terms of
contract.
6. Mobile Communications CL MC
a) E Top Up Marketing Activity CL MC 08
Nothing to add to the correspondence. I
7. Royal Mail CL RM
a) Home Delivery Trial CL RM 05 02
The correspondence concerned the extension of the convenient delivery trial
in Nottingham, subsequently extended to Beverley, Newbury and Bristol, but
no further information apart from that.
MR MARK BAKER had contacted the offices in Bristol involved in the trial
only have of which had been surveyed by POL. Of those surveyed, there
had been no mention of Health & Safety risks for staff regarding space.
PAGE 29 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
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(B) FOR INFORMATION
Facia: MR DARVILL had been advised that the design of the facia currently
used by POL had been changed recently, only one company had the
specification and were able to supply, that company being the most
expensive. It seemed to him that POL were making a profit out of appointing
exclusive/preferred licensed suppliers.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY asked for a description of exactly how the I
facia had changed. He was not sure whether it was legitimate for POL to i
have a let-back contract to one company. He was of the view that to date
POL had recognised a sign manufactured elsewhere provided the sign met
their criteria.
MR DARVILL thought the office name was no longer on the logo but the ;
name was on the right hand end in white lettering as previously and, on the ¢
left where the green extended to the end, there was now a swirly white
patch. Not having the office name should mean facia could be
manufactured in bulk.
THE CHAIRMAN undertook for enquiries to be made. It was known that POL
did charge highly for selling items with the Post Office logo, eg, the massive
“hike” in September in the price of Postpaks available from Magson.
Cash Account Calendar: The 2004/05 edition had been received and would
be circulated in a BSC and “The Subpostmaster’, MR DAVIS added.
AMO moved en bloc.
AM1 REPORT OF CENTRAL APPEALS
No reports. ¢
AN2 GENERAL SECRETARY’S REPORT
a) BT and Multimedia FM CM 02
THE GENERAL SECRETARY said, without Mr Butt being present, he
wished to bring the Council up-to-date CONFIDENTIALLY on developments
and difficulties encountered since the presentation given to them at the
previous meeting. He had had meetings (also attended by Nadeam Butt and
Ken Boosey) with the consortium, ie, with BT and Multimedia, venture
capitalists, also 2 meeting with the E-Envoy’s office. E-Envoy was the
person within Government charged with bringing together and delivering
electronic developments.
He (by himself) had also met with POL as the Post Office’s view of the
proposition was important to the NFSP because without it there would be ‘
difficulties in securing the required £140 million. POL had raised some ¢
PAGE 30 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
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important questions and had strongly recommended that the NFSP get
professional advice. [As an illustration he quoted that for POL’s deal with JD
(£120 million) the company had spent a considerable sum on “ripping the
backside” out of the deal and putting it back together again in order to
understand all the implications.] The consortium deal as it stood involved 4
parties, Multimedia equity was only just over £1 million which meant that a
loan of £140 million was required on £1 million! The only company involved
which could afford that amount was BT and the company would not act as
guarantor.
Another important point was the contract individual subpostmasters would
have with the consortium and what would happen if the kiosk machine did
not meet financial criteria or targets. It now appeared that the revenue and
costs forecasts reported in October had been unrealistic. The terminal itself
would cost more that of the “Your Guide” terminal, POL accountants had
estimated that the terminal must do £8,000-£9,000 pa minimum before the
subpostmaster made any profit; therefore, there was a question over
whether or what equipment was put into smaller sub post offices. It had
been calculated that out of a total revenue of £14,603 per siting, £6,193
would be left after costs had been taken out; the subpostmaster would get
£5,837, leaving the borrowers £300 per site.
This did not add up to a robust business plan and that although the NFSP
was still keen it was cautious, eg, the E-Government had proposed to pay
£60,000 but it now looked as if the figure was £12,000. Someone had
leaked information to the press and a report appeared in the “Daily Mirror’ on
2" January to which the NFSP had responded which had counter-balanced I
a report on “Postmaster.net” that had appeared on December 21* in the I
“Financial Mail on Sunday”, Moreover, it appeared that E-Daily were now i
talking to “Postmaster.net’.
Therefore, more work on the business model was needed and 4 weeks had
been allowed for that. The idea for the trial was to place 500 machines in
the offices in Leicestershire and Rutland (ie, the "Your Guide” offices which
already had the space and a 13 amp plug +line) and funding for this was in
place for that via Syscap, venture capitalists. It was also proposed to put
terminals in Executive Officers offices to test viability + other areas such as
in Stephen Timms constituency, Ireland, Scotland.
BT only wanted the terminals to be put into convenience stores as the
results there might provide a better demonstration but the NFSP wanted
them in a range of offices. The commitment of Government was necessary
and there was shortly to be a meeting with Stephen Timms. A potential
income stream was the sale of the “pause” screen. As an example of the
business case problems to be contended with he gave the example of BT
having set out by saying it wanted 30% of the proceeds of any advertising or
retailing.
Nadeam Butt had been handling negotiations expertly but there was
considerable doubt as to his continuing his career in secondment from POL
PAGE 31 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
Wones . 2QV-—B-s
as Commercial Manager with the NFSP. POL support was needed as
without ATM functionality the commercial case for subpostmasters
disappeared; to go ahead without POL would probably result in a
subjunction for breach of contract because subpostmasters would in effect
be undertaking banking. He had suggested using POL money to fill the
machines (ie, Handco). Currently POL were talking to Link to become one of
the group but currently the competitive organisation involved with the
consortium was Quickpay.
THE CHAIRMAN expressed his concern over the financial implications for
the Federation and queried the cost of advice.
In reply to a query, THE GENERAL SECRETARY said, that the position with
E-Daily was that the company was in breach of its contract with the NFSP
and the association had been terminated.
MR FERGUSON saw many pitfalls and asked POL’s attitude? Handco were
active in selling ATM to subpostmasters and what would be the position for
them? What would the venture capitalists get from the deal? How
committed were people like POL, Royal Mail, DVL to having their forms
printed by the kiosk? The NFSP needed to know the truth.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY replied that POL had been dragged from a
negative attitude, through neutral to now wanting the trial to take place to
ensure it was a commercial plan so, that is it was treating the proposition no
differently to others submitted by any organisation. POL’s concern was
contractual acceptability and no cannibalisation of post office transactions,.
As regards E-Top-Ups, he did not believe POL would take issue with that
and had agreed for E-Top-Ups being on the kiosk. POL was itself working
on a low value terminal for the private side, it was concemed about E-
Commercell backed by Ampost. If the kiosk had ATM payment via Quickpay
as opposed to Link, any transaction that did not go over the counter but
through the machine might be cannibalised ie, taken from a POL transaction
to Quickpay. If the subpostmaster earned less for a kiosk-paid ATM, both
POL and the subpostmaster would lose out. However, they POL see the
case for subpostmasters having the kiosk and not allowing it to go to, for
instance, Tesco or National Federation of Newsagents. 20% of sub post
offices already had ATM's and a 5-year contract with Handco — he did not
know whether Quickpay be replaced with Link and Handco be part of the
deal? He did not know what the venture capitalist would get out of the deal.
Overall it was understandable that, seeing that the Government had made
an investment in technology for every counter, there were bound to be
questions regarding a machine that might take business away from the
counter.
MR WILLSHAW said Postmaster.net had 4,000+ members and made
comments to Richard Barker frequently; therefore he cautioned against
Richard Barker's dealing with the aspect of the situation.
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PAGE 32 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
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MRS REEVES added that Postmaster.net had written to its members with
details of the proposals for a E-Daily kiosk. She was concerned that the pilot
trial might end in the same way as “Your Guide” had, ie, not going anywhere.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY had stressed to the consortium that
subpostmasters/NFSP must be first and best in class, hence the need for
prompt action - the risk was that in taking time to ensure the foundation was
tight, this might result in being placed second.
MR PEBERDY thought that whilst revised financial income stream might
look less at this stage, the kiosk could result in many new streams, as had
been experienced during the pilot of “Your Guide’. For instance, in his office
he had a Multimedia screen and had suggested the company’s number was
put on it, since when they had been inundated with local adverts. Multimedia
also had its first national advert: Powergen.
He proposed asking the General Secretary to source estimates of costs of
competent financial accountants and professional commercial solicitors, eg,
Clifford Chance. Proposal seconded by MRS REEVES. I
MR CYRIL JONES liked the idea but thought there was a long way to go /
with the financial plan. He said the £140 million would attract interest {
repayments which @ 6% = £8 million pa. Divide that by total sub post
offices (18,000) meant £7,000-£8,000 needed to be generated by each post
Office for interest. However, the likely figure of post office was 6,000-8,000
so the machine would have to generate £1 8,000-£20,000 before it made any I
return. Moreover, all the parties involved would want a share: BT,
Multimedia, POL, venture capitalists, besides NF SP/subpostmasters. In his
office the Handco ATM charged customers £1.50, it only did well when the
machine in the adjacent Tesco store, which charged nothing, broke down!
THE GENERAL SECRETARY said POL were standing away from the
proposition until its viability had been proven, it did not appear to want any
money from it, but if the ATM was POL-fill then POL would benefit from that.
To date POL had always been willing to meet and discuss things, it was BT
which had been somewhat reluctant. The current timetable was: January —
advice to subpostmasters, February — launch; March ~ initial machines to go
into sub post offices. 100 machines would be installed in a month and would
be operated for months 2 and 3 in order to evaluate and address any
problems arising during installation, usage and evaluate income build-up
compared to projected figures. On satisfaction completion of the evaluation
it was proposed to roll-out 100 machines in each months 4, 5, 6, with a
further 2-month overall evaluation period on completion of the initial roll out.
Meanwhile, the necessary discussion and consideration of the propositions
and proposals demanded a large proportion of his time and took him out of
the office - which meant that resources at Shoreham were even more
stretched.
Mr Peberdy’s proposal was voted upon and carried. THE CHAIRMAN [ DECISION I
counselled that the decision had been taken by the Executive Council, it [ Decision I]
PAGE 33 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
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would be for the STC (Subpostmasters Trading Company) to decide whether
the company should pay the consultation fees involved; NFSP funds should
certainly not be put at risk.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY was worried about resources at Shoreham —
particularly as the project escalated. He had been asked by Lord Harry
Mitchell to be the lead in asking £1 million of BNP, Bank of Scotland, I
Barclays, City Capital, Lombard, IBM Global Finance, Attaché Credit, \
Siemens, MSQ. He stressed again the CONFIDENTIALITY of the I
discussion. Meanwhile, he said, the NFSP had signed a non-disclosure
agreement; certainly any amount spent by POL should not be mentioned,
nor ATM's; the best thing to say to members if pressed was that the
proposition was looking at ‘revitalising the Government General
Practitioner’. He read out some figures (albeit with understated costs and
overstated income) as an illustration of how important ATM's were in plan:
aon
ANNUAL REVENUE from Company £ Subpostmaster £
Local advertising 540 5% =27 ¢
National advertising 3,939 5% =197
£-Govemment 3,000 50% =1500
Retail sales 938 50% = 469
E-Top-Up 681 66% = 450
Ring tones 264 75% =198
International calling cards 1,505 75% = 1,128
ATM Cash 3,737 50% = 1,868
Without the payment for ATM’s there would be nothing for Multimedia. The
estimate put in for E-Government was £60 million (now re-calculated by
accountants as being £12 million) and E-Envoy had made it clear he would
not give the NFSP a different contract to anyone else, ie, the payment per
click. The £140 million was the estimate of costs for 5,000 sitings, although
there could be 7,000; there were difficulties in installation and/or removal of
kiosks in rural offices if subsequently not proven viable.
In reply to a query from MR MERVYN JONES as to whether subpostmasters
might gain an income stream for providing Broadband access, THE ¢€
GENERAL SECRETARY said it was a factor under discussion particularly as
if “TWIGS” were be used on the machines this would give “wireless”
broadband to villages — which, in itself, might be viewed favourably by
Government.
Presentation by Mr Nadeam Butt
MR BUTT then made a presentation to the Council — please see attached
reproduction of Powerpoint slides covering:
SOS stationery offer (Magsons)
“Subpostmaster 2004”
Advertising Revenue showing growth
Zurich insurance
Subpostmaster TV
Financial performance — forecast v income
Financial performance — 2001 to 2003 by product
Community Connect ¢
eeoeveeeece
PAGE 34 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
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Referring to Community Connect/BT and Multimedia, he said the project was
moving forward slowy. NFSP had signed up in a link with Multimedia for a
period of time. The proposition was dependent on 4 key income streams:
ATM's, advertising, Government information & E-Top-Up’s. The NFSP had
to be sure that the project would generate additional income and not just
substitute income already received. E-Top-Up’s were a classic example
where it appeared in discussions with Multimedia & BT that they wanted to
give a smaller margins to members. Talks had been held in £-Envoy and a
proposition put them about what the rates of pay should be for services
provided. E-Envoy had indicated that although it was Government and had
to give a “one fit all” but if unique services were provided there was a
premium to be paid.
Understanding advertising revenue had proved quite complicated. He
advised that the sale of 10 seconds of Pause advertising whilst customers
used an ATM was worth some $280 per month per terminal. An
Organisation had been found in the UK who had done this with Wallmart in
the USA and which was currently looking at doing a trial of this with Tesco.
A deal could had been signed with BT but it had wanted 35% of the offer on
advertising — the company was professional but commercially hard-headed,
it had some 50 people working on the project.
Certainly legal advice was needed on the contract and that, in itself, would I
take a period of time. The margins for members needed to be clearly set i
down over given periods of time with careful management of people's risks :
and expectations. Moreover, Knowledge of what other organisations were I
doing was important, eg, Postmaster.net and its association with E-Daily. I
THE GENERAL SECRETARY advised Mr Butt that the EC had had a
previous discussion on developments and commented that, in comparison to
BT, the NFSP had 2 people working on the project part-time!
In reply to questions, MR BUTT advised that Magsons was supplying to
directly managed offices. The NFSP could have access to Magsons books if
it wished for audit purposes to trace the commission to which it was entitled,
currently it supplied monthly sales figures to him.
In the consortium, MMI would bring the funding - the company had a proven
successful formula/model bringing credibility. BT was a company which,
similar to POL, would find it difficulty in getting funding.
It was pointed out that people used ATM’s to get money quickly — they might
not wish to use the kiosk if a charge was made and money could be
obtained free from the counter; moreover, what would happen if the machine
was being used by a customer who wished to access a service which took
some time to complete. MR BUTT said there was a balance to be
considered in that a “free-to-user’ access might generate more customers
and prove more attractive for advertisers but the payment for such ATM-use
was only 39p and that had to be divided between retailer/host, whereas the
PAGE 35 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
£1.50 fee gave a return of 60p-70p. One of the reasons for having a printer
connected was because most customers preferred to take a print-off away to
read rather than the screen. There would not any “form-filling” on the screen
and there was a payment for going into a Government site.
Postmaster.net with its 4,000 members did appear to constitute competition
but nothing was known about profit margins, what revenue for what
products/services was being generated, whether a deal had been done with
E-Daily. Certainly Postmaster.net was intent on forging ahead.
How soon the trial could be set up was dependent upon its size, where, and
whether agreement from POL was forthcoming on ATM's. Assessment
needed to include the perception for all parties involved. For a
subpostmaster that might be, for example, a comparison of E-Top-Up’s
transacted over-the-counter versus Kiosk transactions and revenues.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY said the business proposal was for a trial of
00 but it could be that this would be broken down into pre-trials of, say, 20
with “firebreaks”.
MR BUTT thought 500 was a large number and one in which there were
bound to be winners and losers. He thought smaller groups would be a
more manageable and prudent approach. Adding to the General Secretary
ambitions for the project, ie, to be “best and first in class”, he said that there
was nothing in the paperwork which said it was exclusive members as the
consortium would be very unlikely to agree to that.
MR BUTT replied to a question about “the drive to get it out” and confirmed it
was coming from BT but he did not know how soon they would look
elsewhere if progress was not made - he had done his utmost to convince
them that the key was the NFSP and its members. There were a number of
versatile new organisations focusing on and attacking sectors, building a
reputation and becoming specialists (eg, VIRSA). They were small teams,
with no history, fighting for survival but forging ahead and getting funding.
If decisions they made were wrong they changed course and moved on. In
most cases if one looked at whom these organisations had claimed to have
helped, it was a post office. The NFSP was fortunate in having “The
Subpostmaster’ which was a useful tool but at a cost; these organisations
had to rely on their website but the cost was minimal. They all had good
websites set up on a fraction of the amount put into the Federation website
and the resource it had got. He had seen mention of a NFSP Conference
Resolution asking for Rural Executive Members but, 6-months on, the
Federation had not clarified what was wanted or produced anything.
Spending a period of time not making a decision achieved nothing and, even
then, ultimately did not ensure that a correct decision was made.
MR CYRIL JONES said there was a subtle difference in that officers in those
organisations were paid, whereas NFSP officials were voluntary, also
running their own businesses. The Federation’s modus operandi was
different — it's objective was to protect the rights of subpostmasters; ancillary
PAGE 36 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
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operations had grown up over the years with only minimal resources
because of low funding. The project under consideration was to generate
cash — but that cash was primarily for the subpostmaster, not the
organisation. Rather than try to emulate other organisations, the NFSP
needed to look at changing its set-up completely and then it might be able to
beat them at their own game.
MR BUTT had not meant to compare but point out what fresh organisations
starting with a blank sheet were doing. They had the potential to take
membership away.
THE CHAIRMAN thanked Mr Butt for his presentation.
b) Management Advisory FM MS 06
As in circulated correspondence, confirmation of decision at October EC
meeting. Management Advisory services remained a popular benefit.
AN3 TRADING
a) Briefing on Subpostmaster 2003 Review
As circulated. MRS JENKINS had concerns about the proposal regarding air
transport from Scotland and Northern Ireland, particularly the request to
submit the number of seats required by 1* February, 2004. There was no I
mention of price. MR FERGUSON thought it unlikely that members in
Northern Ireland would wish to pursue the suggestion. THE GENERAL
SECRETARY undertook to relay this opinion.
It was recommended that the General Secretary, Kevin Davis, Patricia ACTION
Jenkins and Nadeam/Ken should liaise on issues concerning
“Subpostmaster 2004”.
A/14 EXECUTIVE OFFICERS’ REPORTS
No reports.
AM5 ANY OTHER BUSINESS
MR WILLSHAW addressed a vote of thanks to THE CHAIRMAN for his
robust and skilful chairmanship of the meeting. .
THE CHAIRMAN THE CHAIRMAN wished Executive Officers well in the
Triennial Elections 2004-2007. He said he had enjoyed the task of chairing
the meeting - which he ‘ought to a close.
LYNDA WILLOUGHBY
GILL PAYNE
PAGE 37 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 2004
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National Executive
Council Meeting
Publicity &
Development
Committee Report
ANNUAL CONFERENCE 10-12 MAY 2004
GRAND HOTEL, TORQUAY
« £100 dinner bed and breakfast + £40
for spouse
= £70 bed and breakfast + £23 for
‘spouse on Tuesday night
Conference Reception ~ Sunday Sth
= Pianist to play 5 — 6 pm (£50)
Informal Evening ~ Wednesday 12th
® Speekeezee Trio (£195)
DINNER Tt ening 14
GALA Way Sg” evening
= Schedule/arrangements for
evening as outlined previously
= Entertainment South West to set
up microphones and speakers
(£150 quoted)
\ = Moonlight Band booked (£550) —
\ led by Dusty Miller, also vocalist
\ + drums, bass, keys, sax.
I
ene 2004 2
ANNUAL CONFERENCE 10-12 MAY 2004
™~
Exhibition:
+ Suggestion that Trades Exhibitions
should provide publicity materia! for
“Subpostmaster 2004"
= Depending on developments, invite
e-commerce partner
= Demasar not to be invited to exhibit
as a relationship commercial
ANNUAL CONFERENCE 10-12 MAY 2004
Church Service ~ Sunday 9®
= Delegates to jin congregation for
morning worship at Central Ghurch, Tor
Hil, Torquay
\\ Photographer
= Henson Photography - £80 per day
(£240) + images on CD. Photo orders
£5 for 7"x5" mounted photo
\ Chauffeur
\ = Nell Whitehorn, as in recent years,
— ,
Annual Conferences
\ 2005, 2006
2005 16- 18 May - Confirmed at
‘Scarborough Spa Complex
2006
15-17 May - Torquay not available.
Eastboume already has one provisional
\ booking, NSP provisionally booked
second on list
\ 22-24 May ~ Torquay available
\ 22-24 May — Eastbourne possibly available
12-16 June— Torquay possibly available
tse 2004 e
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Review and Format of
Conference
Resolution 78/2003
Consultative process being
undertaken:
» P&D representatives met with
‘SO representatives on 15 Sept
» P&D Committee met with North
East Branch representatives on
27 Nov
« P&D to meet with Branch
representatives in other Regions
Members-only Website
» Went live on 1° October 2003
» Members received their membership
card with membership number and
password later in October
» Federation officials contact details
correct
Now payment rates input
Federation Helpline and Relief
‘Subpostmasters information completoly
updated
“Notices” faclity starting to be used
To date only 520 members have
registred on the site
Recruitment 1 ~~ “Subpostmaster 2003”
Membership statistics modified following
provision of information on post offices still
‘open - where name of subpostmaster not
advised.
Consequent increase of 1,000 potential
membors ~ recruitment opportunity!
Reflects adversely on density level (now
77%)
= Mailout to non-members from Federation
HQ planned early in new year.
Overall folt to be improvement on
“Subpostmaster 2002"
15% more visitors
= Standholders pleased with
positive responses and orders
NFSP stand appeared to have
more room. A recommendation if
for Stand to be on visitors’ right
‘when entering
Roster of EO's manning stand not
adhered to
Jarry 2086 0
“Subpostmaster” Exhibition — future
strategy
= EC Resolution for 2004 Exhibition
to be held at alternative venue
(Midlands or North)
= Meeting with Trades Exhibitions on
49 November
= G-Mex Manchester not felt suitable
= Unlikely availability and suitability of
NEC Birmingham for 2004
= Decided “Subpostmaster 2004”
should be held at Wembley
«= Availability of NEC for 2005to be
ascertained
Jamun 2008 ”
Promotional Activities
Carrier Bags
» 5,000 printed
= Given out at exhibition
= Suggested should be available for
subpostmasters to order
‘= Logistic difficulties in distribution and
accounting
Quarterly flyer
+ Distribution difficuties
oN
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Training Pilot — Retail
NFSP Poster Academy
Successful to date
Does YOUR bank * 31 subpostmasters attended
Introductory workshops In South East:
let you collect Bluewater, Dartford, on 28 16
lovember
cash here? Ask Brighton, on 9 November
tod «= Similar workshops to be held during
January in Preston, Sunderland and
us ‘o. jay Stockton areas.
Enthusiastic responses when I
addressed Preston Branch,
sen ® neat *
Conference Resolutions I I $onference Resolutions
2003 ™~ Resolution 78: locate specie human
Resolution 75: publicity material — financial resources to provide ‘rural
requirements to be borne in mind business officer” in each Region
Resolution 76: transfer of bank Employment of a person to cover all i
account pensioners to post office — regions ~ salary? ;
discussed under agenda items A/3 = If regional who (with sufficjent time & I
“Campaign” and A/S “Posters” knowledge)? Payment per hour + I
Resolution 78: Format of Conference sxpenses?
~constitation process undertaken = Where would budget come from?
Resolution 80: survey — already = Liabitty if in providing support
actioned incorrect advice given? I
= Regional Secretaries written to to I
ascertain their views I
mye » ene * i
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Executive Council
mmercial Update —
January 2004
\
mnt ct ents
sos
les of branded packaging has grown to 30%
Pobitive feedback from members at the exhibition
Largest stationery buying group in the UK
NFSP\roalised £22K income for 2002
Incomb target for 2003 was £40K
NFSP will realise £74K income for 2003
Sales target for 2003 was £2m
Delivered £2.5m
‘Te Non of Subposmasters Speaking for Subpostasire
Subpostmaster 2004
+ Exhibition to remain in Wembley for 2004
ifficult market
hibition increased in size
Advertising Revenue Showing
Growth
ven editions of “Business Matters” in the
first year
Advertising market in decline
Editor, Portsmouth, Bev and Commercial
team Working partnership
Cost ¥p by £4K
Advertising income increased by over
£40K.
‘steed orto crt apts
Zurich
Claims ratio still under break-even
‘SP portfolio currently loss making for Zurich
Ziirich concerned because of failing membership
2
3
S
ES
2
z
3
a
3
> Coordinated marketing plan devised
> Propose to produce\run 6 features In the Journal
> Discoui}t level maintained
Subpostmaster TV
arget for 2003 was 500
rrently 700 Installed
Inckme projected £15k
Income delivered £35k
\
\
a
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Financial performance — Forecast
Financial performance —
2001 To 2003 by product
Financial performance
Community Connect
“ey continues to more forward, but
lowly
+ LOI signed between NFSP & MMI
+ The\success of the project is dependent on
four key Income streams
‘Me Nato of Subposenaners- Specking for Subportmatirs
Community Connect
Next Steps
insure income Is deliverable for the four key
ihcome streams
Open discussions and agree margins with
retallers(Argos) .
Identify trial sites and agree number
Agree\contracts
- Agree margins for members
Manage risk & expectations
TraHotoaly of Subpostmactee- Speaking to: Subpoctmatters
i
=~
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‘In Confidence’
Address by Gerry Sutcliffe MP, the Minister for Employment, Competition,
Consumers & Postal Services also attended by Jonathan Cowdock, Deputy
Director, Postal Services Directorate, Department of Trade & Industry
Thank you very much Mr President and good afternoon colleagues. I am delighted to
be here, thank you very much for the invitation.
I still see myself in this role as very much that of a new boy in terms of not being in I
for a tremendous amount of time in relation to the Post Office. My background is that I
I have been an MP for 10 years from Bradford South as a constituency and clearly I
have been involved in politics both at local and national level for many years. I would
like to think that I am involved very much with the community that I come from and all
the issues around that which reflect in terms of the need for a viable post office
network. I
! am delighted to have the opportunity to come and speak to the Executive. It is not
so much me speaking at you today actually I want to hear from you in terms of the
issues that you feel that need to be discussed.
I clearly have seen the manifesto that has come forward and was pleased to meet
Colin and others during the immediate aftermath of my appointment because what I
thought was an important thing to do was to get everybody in - all the stakeholders
that had a role to play within Royal Mail and the Post Office - and around the table to
get their individual viewpoints about what was happening and what was going on
because what I am conscious of is very much a period of change and I know that you
are feeling that on the ground because you and your members are actually at that
forefront of the change that is taking place. So today as far as I am concerned it is
More about me hearing from you than you hearing from me.
I have to say that in meeting Colin I am very pleased with the way that the Federation
operates, how it informs Government, how it informs my officials about what is going
on and the relationship the Federation has with the Post Office because I think that is
vital for it to move forward. The Manifesto that you have produced I think is a
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welcome manifesto. The note that I have here says ‘It is a challenging contribution to
the debate of the future agenda of the Post Office’. So we will stop at challenging
contribution and discuss the detail as we go through.
Whilst we are not going to agree on every element of detail it is clear to me that we
all do share that same vision for the future which is to have a viable post office
network that’s relevant to the communities that it serves. That viability has got to be
commercially viable both for Post Office Limited and for individual Subpostmasters.
So I think that a great deal of progress has already been made and as your
manifesto points out there is a long way to go yet. I think that the Federation's
strength is that it can and is willing to have a constructive debate with Government
and with Post Office Limited.
I want to stop at that point Colin and congratulate you on your New Year's Honour, I
think it was well merited and clearly shows the esteem that the Federation is held in I
and the work that you have done over many years.
I have had a long chat with David Mills who is the Chief Exec of Post Office Limited, I :
know you are aware of that, and we have had a long debate about the issues that we I
are facing. :
But we set the Royal Mail and Post Office a very genuine task to turn the
organisation around.
You are aware of the PIU report and the difficulties that were being faced in terms of
the losses that were being made and we supported the recommendations of the PIU
report.
I would like to say that I think that the branding of the new products is starting to pay
off. I, like you, have been off over the Christmas period with the flu that everyone
has had so I was in bed from Boxing Day till New Years Day but I had the TV close
by and kept seeing the ants on the TV with all the various Post Office products that
were being put forward and I think that is a step in the right direction.
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I think that the liaison between the Bank of Ireland and the Post Office is a fruitful one
and I hope to hear from you today how you think that’s working, how you think that’s
developing and where the strengths and weaknesses in that relationship need to be
looked at.
I have to say in conversations with David Mills I feel it is a genuine attempt to try and
move things forward and we have got to do that because clearly we have all seen the
campaign in terms of the urban reinvention. Whoever entitled it that I don’t know, but
the issues around that in my own constituency where we have seen 6 post offices
close, and I know personally how that has gone down in the community and some
issues that it has thrown up around there, and I know that you know that many
people suddenly discovered their post office when it became too late in terms of
trying to save the post office that they weren't prepared to use prior to the problems
that were there.
But we do need a viable network, we do need to have new services, we do need to
learn from successes that there have been and that have been sought of your
organisation in terms of the investment that some of the Subpostmasters are putting
in, in succeeding to see services develop.
The Government's perspective is that clearly we feel we made a commitment in
terms of the £2 billion that has been put into Royal Mail, the support that's gone
through the rural network and the support that is coming through the Office of the
Deputy Prime Minister have all been contributions to try and make sure that there
has been a commitment from the Government to support the Post Offices and the
Post Office network.
Now on urban reinvention it has been a challenging task and there clearly has been
lots of heartache not only for individual Subpostmasters that took the payments, but
those that are left and the impact on their businesses, and then the impact on our
communities and, as a constituency MP, I have personal knowledge of what that has
meant.
It is good to see some of the figures that are through in terms of people's satisfaction
tates once the closure has taken place and the business has been transferred to the
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other post offices how the satisfaction rates are starting to increase and I am keen to
see and have reported, reported is the wrong word actually, appear before the i
Department of Trade and Industry Select Committee in terms of what I expect to see
in the future.
We are going to see the Postcomm survey which will look at any gaps that we have
created by the reinvention programme and what we need to learn from that, and I
think that is a positive step in the right direction.
I am told that the average payment that is being paid out to Subpostmasters is about
£60,000, that the money that's been provided by the Government and is being spent.
There are good examples of things that are happening and Duncan House the
Subpostmaster at Alder Road Branch in Pool who made a £20,000 investment in his
business after 3 nearby branches had closed estimates that in 2004 the footfall at his
branch rose by 50%, his sales of travel and banking products doubled 100% and the
improvements also helped his retail business where sales rose by 30%. I know that’s I
not the norm but that's an example that will hopefully inspire all of us.
As I said I want to hear from you about the issues around the financial services and {
banking at the Post Office and how that’s working and how you see that developing.
I am being told that things are going well, that it is going, and I know that your I
Executive Council had the opportunity to be involved in an input in the services that I
were being provided.
It is important to me that we do things and work together in terms of how we try and
move this forward. The Government's role as major shareholder in Royal Mail is to
be seen to set a financial turn around of the organisation set within guidelines within
social responsibility. But also to make sure that we have an input in what goes on
and I think there are some very complicated relationships when you look at the role
of Postcomm, the role of Postwatch, your own roles as individual businesses and
reflectively through the Federation and the relationship with the Royal Mail as an
organisation.
We are clearly coming to an end in terms of the recovery plan that was put forward
for Royal Mail in 1999.
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Before being the Minister I was PPS to Stephen Byers at the time when the Royal
Mail and the unions in Royal Mail were asking the Government to give the company
greater commercial freedoms and greater independence from the Government. So
its quite interesting now to hear some of those same people say that the Government
has now got to invest even more money in what goes on and I think there are some
interesting relationships around there.
We know that the move to direct payment was a major impact as far as the
relationship with Post Offices was concerned and we know there has been some
difficulties around the Post Office Card Account.
I hope that that’s now resolved and I have spoken to Alan Johnson who is now the
new Secretary of State for the DWP and clearly has a background within Royal Mail
and the Post Office and knows the business very well. Colin Baker was closely
involved in the discussions last year with the DTI and DWP on the pre-populated I
form for the Post Office Card Account and the Federation put forward a number of
proposals for improving the process which were implemented, if there are more
problems around that I would be interested to hear what you have got to say this
afternoon about that. I know that the Federation were heavily involved again in
issues around the forms and the processes of setting up these Post Office Card
Accounts.
On the rural network the Government fully implemented the measures that were
recommended by the PIU report and obviously we have seen additional funding go
into the rural network, and all that additional funding is subject to state aid clearance
from the European Commission.
Again we are looking at new pilots in the rural areas which I thought can be then be
developed further into the urban network as well, in that you can look at things like
Post Offices in community centres, try and find ways of assisting you developing your
businesses but also at the same time helping the community as well.
I know that you have got concerns about the Subpostmasters remuneration and the
issues around that and again happy to hear what you have got to say this afternoon.
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I believe that progress has taken place, that we need to establish a sustainable
network, that we need to be honest and straightforward in our dealings with each
other if nothing else, although it is difficult for you to believe that politicians can be
honest, but I definitely feel that the style of operation that I try to do is that we can
have frank exchanges. We won't always agree, but at least we'll listen to each other
in terms of what the issues are and try and have the positive relationship that I know
you had with Stephen Timms because I am committed to a sustainable network, I am
committed to and do say the role of the post office is vital to our communities and
that we have got to find a way through this together.
There will be some difficult decisions ahead in terms of the organisation with
structures that we will be looking at and the difficult relationships with different
organisations that exist.
Thanks very much for giving me the opportunity of saying those few words, really it is
now open to you to ask me questions or to comment. I am delighted that I’ve got
John Cowdock with me today as well so that means that the Minister gets the easy
questions and the difficult questions go to John.
Thank you very much for this opportunity.
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o,
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Appendix A
Presentation
By
Matthew Gibbs
Of
Post Office Ltd I
Tuesday
22 June 2004
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