FOR USE OF COUNCIL MEMBERS ONLY
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NATIONAL FEDERATION OF SUBPOSTMASTERS
REPORT OFA
MEETING OF THE
COUNCIL
held on
14 &15 OCTOBER 2019
at
HOLIDAY INN CAMDEN LOCK
LONDON
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Report of a Meeting of the Council
held on Monday & Tuesday, 14 & 15 October 2019
at Holiday Inn Camden Lock,
London
Those present: Tim Boothman Chair
Susan Edgar Vice Chair
Calum Greenhow Chief Executive
Christine Donnelly
Uel Houston
Saj Hussain
Nilesh Joshi
Susan Jude
Paul McBain
Stuart Rogers, BEM
Bharat Visani
Kevin Hogarth WH Smith
Yvonne Fennell Spar UK
In attendance: Robert Clack Director of Commercial & Retail
Wendy Burke NC Facilitator & Operations Officer
Keith Richards Security & Network Transformation
Peter Hall Head of Policy & Research (part) I
Paul Simmonds Director of Operations {
Apologies: David Sanghera Rymans
The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting and mentioned that a few people had
been delayed due to transport issues but would join the meeting when they arrived.
L REPORTS & RESOLUTIONS OF COUNCIL MEETINGS
(a) The Report of the meeting of 17 & 18 June 2019 was agreed
as a true record, IDECISION)
(b) The Resolutions passed at the meeting of 17 & 18 June 2019
were agreed as a true record. IDECISION,
(c) No further updates on action points as updates circulated
as they occurred,
(d) Matters Arising - Confirmation of the result of the
electronic vote that took place re new brokers for both the
Federation and Benevolent Fund portfolio’s was that
Charles Stanley were selected and the transfer was close to
completion. DECISION)
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2. CEO REPORT
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[DECISION]
(b)
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- Irrelevant
Would go to the Botton oF the list’
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It was clear new solutions needed to be identified for the
hard to place offices, and it was clear the NFSP Board were
concerned about these cases,
(c) Mailwork Office Support
Irrelevant
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(a)
(e)
Grant Framework Agreement (whole section in_ strict
confidence)
Under no circumsta!
nces should this be
ATMs
ATMs were in decline. The BOI contract ends March 2022.
PO starting to look at what happened then and were going
through a procurement and tender for contracts.
Indications are that because values and volumes were in
decline, it was likely the income generated to the network
would be changed.
Some of you may know that Saj Hussain is one where their
licence has come up for renewal and BO! have the right to
say licence has finished and we are removing the ATM. PO
cannot do anything about that. The final decision remains
with BOI.
Concern is what happens to the spm who is losing through
no fault of their own. Been able to ensure that some offices
may be commercially viable going forward and to ensure
there is a network, they would receive £300 for 6 months
and £150 for 3 months. Hopefully by then decisions would
have been made.
Other issue is dilapidation. If an ATM is removed what was
the impact on the premises. NFSP trying to make sure the
exteriors are attractive to customers. If an ATM is removed
and a piece of plywood is put in its place. Would that even
be safe security wise? NFSP working with PO to ensure
properties are not damaged by the removal of an ATM.
Trying to ensure the aesthetics of the shop front is both
good, and the premises are safe and secure which may
affect insurance.
In some cases holes have been cut into a window. In the
case of iGRo;his ATM had not been removed yet. That
window would require complete replacement. Request for
Board to keep CEO informed of any situations where an
ATM had been removed and the spm was not happy with
the damage not being rectified well,
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(f) Cash Management
(g)
CEO had provided a detailed report on a meeting with Cash
Management. Thanks to Sue Edgar who had worked hard
on cash management, building relationships and the NFSP
was now in a situation where they were part of a Working
Group within PO to drive forward efficiencies within the
whole of cash management.
Area of concern is forged notes. Nearly 4,000 offices
affected. In the last year PO had written off £116,000 in
forgeries and sent back £130,000 to spms.
Current policy was too grey. If you haven't had any forgeries
PO were likely to write them off. However for those who
had several PO were more likely to send them back and
charge the spm. The policy was not totally clear, and
needed to be worked on to bring clarity.
CEO was at Birmingham cash centres and looked over a
forgery of £140 on CCTV footage and could see clear as day
that they were forgeries. The note counting machine
picked them out straight away. If spm or staff member
were counting by hand we don’t know, but could there be a
situation where spms are putting through hoping PO would
ignore them or was it a case of they genuinely didn't notice?
Several Directors were often at cash centres so if any
member has a shortage or forgery they should call the
NBSC to get a reference number and someone would go
and check to make sure it was genuine.
There did not seem to be clarity in the network as to what
to do. If a spm spots a forgery whilst counting but not sure
who it came from, call the NBSC for Form P6005. If they
get the form they can then write it all down and send it in
the pouch with the NBSC reference number.
Magazine article required on this subject. Sue Edgar to
assist Peter Hall with writing the article.
If anyone had issues with forgeries, there are two ways to
accept it. One way is an honest mistake. They can be fully
claimed for following the process previously outlined.
However there is a lot of people exchanging large value
notes from one to the other. If a spm follows PO rules they
should not do that. Can’t say they are doing something PO
doesn’t want them to do but now a loss has been incurred
they want PO to pay. To stop most of that, spms need to
stop accepting these notes, do not swap them over. If you
do take a large volume of notes and they are forgeries, if
they are really good, PO would write it off but they have to
be very good. The notes seen by the team were not good.
lf a pouch contains a forgery, PO hold on to it. If it is
challenged when the footage is viewed they can see the
actual forgery involved.
There followed lengthy discussion. Clarified that there was
a booklet that could help identify forged notes.
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There was discussion about the Safescan note counters with
some being dubious but the Chair had never had issues as
his was on the right settings, and his had never missed a
forgery and hadn't had any shortage for over 2 years. Issue
seemed to be that many did not know how to use the
machine correctly.
Reported that more and more bags of coins included fakes,
44,000 mistakes made each year. 23,000 were a shortage.
21,000 give back money to the spm because they are over.
2 years ago PO were the benefit of the doubt to spms
which cost £400,000, NFSP needed to be careful how the
issue was dealt with as did not want to lose the benefit of
the doubt payments.
(g) Multiples Conference
Heads up for the Board.
Planning a day long event on 4 February 2020 in London
with multiples being invited.
Agenda still to be decided.
Whole point is the NFSP want to represent everybody who
owns and operates a post office, which was the main aim.
In February will be further with the remuneration review.
Some multiples earn £2 million and have costs of £3 million
to operate their post office network. No one wants them to
pull out.
(h) Outreach Offices
Heads up for the Board,
Conversations for a long time with government officials and
have been asked questions in relation to outreaches.
Concern that in 2009 there was 800 now closer to 1,600.
Government concerned about the cost of outreaches which
was £6 million for PO at £3,750 per outreach on average.
Wanted to know how they compared to Locals at providing
the service? Other aspect was hard to place and may be a
situation where some offices where the number of
transactions is so low an outreach would be the logical way
to allow them to leave.
However, if government are questioning the number of
outreaches, is it the right direction?
There followed a short discussion.
{i) Banking
Report circulated. We knew what was coming. Banking
was on the rise but would level off and eventually decline.
Board need to think of what else we could do banking wise
to try and keep the number of transactions up.
Now want to talk about Barclays. The Barclays
announcement came the morning Peter Hall returned from
paternity leave.
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. Email and BSC sent out including the press statement the
NFSP put out. Had been picked up. Main focus in the
media has been the impact on consumers which is only
correct. NFSP are amplifying the outrage. Peter Hall is
bombarding Barclays social media quite heavily. Petition
launched and looking to amplify that to keep this running
for as long as possible. 4,000 signatures so far but a lot
more will be done to increase those numbers. Members
will be updated on what we are doing including the link to
the petition an encouraging them to share with customers
and on their social media. Looking to advise members that
they can provide advice to Barclays customers who come
in. They should continue to serve them as it is not their
fault. Can advise customers if they wish to continue to use
the post office that there are 27 other banks they can
choose to use. PL3931 will be circulated to members so
they can give to customers to show how easy it is to switch
banks. The bank they move to does all the hard work. €
. We can also consider providing the postal address of
Barclays Chief Executive so customers can write a letter.
Important to keep up the momentum and want to keep it
going as long as possible. Daily Mail would be running a
splash the next day. NFSP will continue working with the
media. Daily Mail Money section interested in the prospect
of people switching accounts. Evidence of that from social
media and the petition.
. Plenty of stakeholders also interested (Countryside Alliance,
NFU, Rural Services Network, Age UK, ACS and NFRN). We
will engage with them and get them to broadcast the
message. They may well work with us on this.
e Working behind the scenes with PO who do not want this
to happen and had been feeding the NFSP with
information.
° Plan to write a letter to all MPs, another idea was an open
letter to Jess Staley signed by the CEOs of some of the other /
organisations, and Stuart Rogers was working in ¢
Westminster. Hoping to get a question in PMQs. About
200 contacts now in Parliament so get as many
permutations through the initial ballot as possible to get a
question asked.
. NFSP were doing a lot and would keep it going for as long
as possible, Barclays want it to go away and try to bury it so
the NFSP needed to sustain momentum.
° Not only was this affecting around 400,000 members of the
public in rural areas, but one of the statements made by
Barclays Chief Executive was you can go into any retailer
and do a cash back. How dare they think they can come
into our premises and their customers can take my cash.
° There followed lengthy discussion during which it was
made clear that the Board were disgusted by Barclays
cynical decision because they did not want to pay for the
service!
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3. NC REPORT
° Reports on each meeting circulated so only updates to
provide.
Cash Management
. Cash management had given a commitment to
communicate more with spms if deliveries were going to
fail. Request for Board to keep an eye on the situation. ACTION
. New licencing rules around the CVIT drivers. May impact on
deliveries for a short time but PO do not know yet.
Large Letter Stamps
. Discussions about stamping out large letter stamps on
items across the counter.
. Goes back to 2012 and the IBA signed between PO and RM,
but this was not part of the agreement.
° Who had done their Mails Compliance Test? Who answered
yes to stamping all of these?
° In the original IBA in 2012 not part of it. It was a change of
process request that came in and was never agreed with
the NFSP. CEO opinion was if a customer had come in and
purchased stamps from you, you would do that as a I
customer service. If someone comes in with a bag of mail
you have no idea where they bought the postage from,
why would RM expect spms to take the time to offer a
service RM don't want to do.
° That position has been communicated to PO. Happy to
take Board's views.
° Originally RM were confident their new sorting machines
could cancel them. Transpired the machines were not
capable of doing that so RM insisted PO introduced the
cancellations without even notification! Agreed with the
CEOs stance.
° RM and PO would say it was compulsory. Our argument is
that if the stamp is sold over the PO counter the spm has
been paid. If the postage has been purchased elsewhere,
neither PO nor the spm had been paid. However PO have
been happy to accept a proposal being put to them by RM
that adds no cost to them but a significant cost to the spm
as they will have to cancel the stamps with no income.
° It appeared the general consensus was that if RM want
spms to do the work they have to pay for it.
— Irrelevant
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Subpostmaster Letters Pages
Meetings
Nilesh Joshi creating a generic questionnaire for those who
attend a meeting to complete and would circulate to
regional secretaries, so every region is working the same
way. Questionnaire to be run past the Comms Team prior
to circulation.
Parcelshop Presentation
Attempt to re-engage with younger customers as they were
being lost by post offices.
Parcels market was growing by 27% per annum.
Drop off points need to be more convenient to give
customers the choice they demand.
PO want to deploy these where competitors are and where
there is no post office nearby. Targeted at winning back
business from competitors. Model would work best in
dense rural areas such as Inner London where roll out is
starting. NFSP needed to keep an eye on the roll out as it
could impact the Restrictions Policy and post offices in the
vicinity.
Retailers would be audited and monitored. Very simple
model but PO plan to install in high volume mails branches
to queue bust at Christmas.
The terminals are very easy to move around as they work
with WiFi. Risk is if the terminals develop there could be
more features put on they could grow into something we
didn’t plan.
Agreed with PO that after the trial if they want to roll out it
would be run through the NNL team to ensure they are not
taking work away from existing branches.
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Automation of Horizon (integration into EPOS)
. Was under the remit of Karl Oliver but now it was Simon
Lambert who was ex-Paypoint.
° Would be sold to retailers and was a method of integrating
with their EPOS.
e Direct settlement would be incorporated and banking
charges would be paid by the retailer.
° Products available on the system are; bill payment, lottery,
mails collect and return, and British Gas would be available
by January.
° Currently building smart prepay, top-ups and stamp books.
° Retailer would choose the transactions they wanted, for
instance McColls only want mail. Claim it would save half
an hour per day on cashing up.
° Upkeep costs - retailer, EPOS [provide build cost to retailer,
bank charges to retailer, so would be more suited to
multiples.
° Some live already and Co Op plan to put in all outlets by
March 2020.
° There followed a short discussion.
{
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DVLA
. Contract extended until 2023 on the same terms.
° DVLA decline at the counter had slowed and levelled out.
° Estimated around 2 million vehicles untaxed with a huge
loss of revenue to government since the removal of physical
tax discs.
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° Disability certificates were being used fraudulently and it
was being looked at as an opportunity for PO.
° Rod licences had been extended for a further 3 years.
Tablet Trial
. Tablet trial was progressing and should be live in trial
branches in approx. 3 weeks with rollout after Christmas if it
went well.
° In branch verification was going well and the network was
widening.
Engagement
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. Videos were being made but no agreement as to where
they would be uploaded.
. Mails Matters leaflet available for customers.
Monthly Update on ATM Payments
° 50 offices identified as not receiving their payments after
NT. Now all repaid (biggest payment was around £15,000).
. Also offices identified that were still being paid with no
ATM. Payments had ceased but there would be no
clawback.
4. NNLs
. Already covered in the CEO report.
5. POLITICAL UPDATE
Irrelevant
BEIS
Secretary of State the Andrea Leadsom MP is supporting
meeting the NFSP on The Barclays Banks decision to
withdraw cash withdrawals from Post Office Counters is on
the agenda. We are grateful to BEIS Postal Affairs Minister
Kelly Tolhurst MP for all the support.
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HM Treasury
A further meeting has been taken place with Economic
Secretary to HM Treasury. There is support to review
products and services at Post Offices, there is a challenge on
how consistency of training across the network, The Minister
acknowledged there were “Best in Class Examples” but
scalable good training and service requires a plan.
Department of Environment, Fisheries and Rural Affairs.
The Rt. Hon Lord Gardner Rural Affairs Minister is lobbying
HM Treasury and BEIS on the challenges facing rural
communities and is a Barclays Customer who is requesting
more information on the decision.
Lord Gardner is lobbying across Government to ensure all
considerations are considered for a future Government
Spending review.
Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government ¢
The Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local
Government has the responsibility of Retail, High Streets
and Towns.
The future High Street Strategy undertaken by the All Party
Select Committee and published in the Spring does not
even consider the Post Office (The Minister is supportive of
working with the NFSP.)
Department of Work and Pensions Secretary of State the Rt.
Hon Therese Coffey MP I am being advised will be listening
mode and has agreed to meet the NFSP the organisation
that represents and serves the most vulnerable in our
Communities is acknowledged
Ministry of Defence are contacting war and service veterans
to encourage they close their POCA Accounts (Johnny
Mercer MP Veteran Minister is supporting follow up).
This weekend we have also agreed to meet Department of
Transport Secretary of State the Rt Hon Grant Shapps MP €
Secretary of State Department of Transport in relation to the
Future of the DVLA and encouraging inclusion of the
network.
The NFSP ways working partnership with Government is
based on Trust, Respect Confidentially Adding Solutions
and creating a plan for the future of the Post Offices and our
colleagues who like us have invested in the network.
Not having an online forum for the work being undertaken
and broadcasting on social media is not the way to make
progress,
The Government through BEIS is seeking feedback from
Government Departments on what options there are to
revisit extending services to Post Office.
There is respect and understanding that the "Making Post
Office Front of Government" has seen online focus not meet
this objective.
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There is work being undertaken on what the future strategy
of the network should be and what future products and
services should be undertaken Post Offices.
There is acknowledgement that any future spending review
has to be fit for purpose to ensure viably of the network
(There will be a General Election in the near future seeking
support on the key priorities for the National Federation of
Sub Post Masters,
The NFSP is part of the working group with BEIS & Post
Office and meets quarterly with a respectful and open
working relationship to collaborate take the network
forward. The NFSP agreed this the Minister.
The Mails Market industry is not operating on level playing
field and this is receiving support to provide more evidence.
There is a challenge how service and knowledge improved
through a network that trades longer opening hours in a
diverse branch network.
The Post Office All Party Parliamentary Group has
representation cross party.
At this time meetings are closed to Non-Members and only
accessible to Member of Parliament and the House of Lords.
The NFSP will have supportive MP's at these meetings.
Information received under Chatham house rules give
evidence that suggests the role of the NFSP will be subject
to challenge as a consequence of the Group Litigation
Cases,
There will be challenges to the role of the NFSP by others,
Government acknowledge the NFSP is providing ideas and
solutions to create a sustainable network.
Successional planning is key to a sustainable network.
Influencing Government to allow more flexibility is
important.
The Department of Education should not accept a payment
from Post office in the form of an apprentice levy but look at
options and alternatives working with the NFSP,
Creating a succession plan for Apprentice Levy of 0.5 on
salary cost over £3 Million (Reported Wages and Salaries
2018 £154'000'000 2018 accounts = £770k Levy).
Compliance to the statutory requirements. The NFSP can
create the agenda and encourage the Big Conversation.
The NFSP is focusing its time on working with Government
& sustain Post Offices with products and services.
The BEIS Select Committee have not met civil servants or
officials to review the content of the final report prior to
being published. This meeting is still to be arranged.
The Treasury select committee is chaired by a Conservative
MP. This is acknowledged by other political parties from
across Parliament. The Rt Hon Mel Stride MP is seeking
election to chair this committee. The nomination has
received seconded by the SNP. Mel has been a huge
supporter of The NFSP and if Mel is elected this will really
benefit SubPostmasters.
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There is predicted to be a General Election in the coming
weeks and months. Post Office Branches will be subject to
Prospective Parliamentary Candidates will want to visit
branches and pledge their support for Post Offices. There
are specific statutory guidelines and obligations. I would
suggest we can raise the profile of on-going support for
SubPostmasters following and General Election and ensure.
. The CEO quoted from the CWU Conference this year. i
“Motion 50, “Conference is dismayed at the voting record of
some of the CWU supported MP's, Therefore, Conference
instructs the NEC to continually monitor and report back to
Regional Political Forums on CWU supported MP's, MSP’s
and Assembly Members voting record. Reports should also
contain any issues where a Supported politician does not
support the CWU Position, Policy and Values. Issues relating
to any of the fore mentioned should be challenged and
support withdrawn if not addressed.” € .
° Believed the CWU is trying to ensure that the BEIS Select
Committee is critical of the NFSP. The CWU would like the
Post Office to accept the CWU as a representative body of
Subpostmasters.
° Awaiting the Judgement from Judge Frazer on the Horizon
Court Case. Believed that the Labour party and the CWU
will use a not favourable decision to criticise the NFSP.
. The CWU fund the Labour party to the tune of £500,000 per
annum.
° The Post Office would like to set up an Academy, which
would be an_ accredited training package for
Subpostmasters and their staff. Potential for the NFSP to be
part of this.
. Paul McBain had been invited to Holyrood on 4 & 5
November to talk on the demise of what could be done for
the High Street on behalf of the Conservative MSP.
6a. DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS REPORT €
. The Director of Operation’s report had been circulated prior
to the meeting.
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° Will summarise the findings of the analysis and share with
the Board and also Royal Mail and Post Office,
6b. ACTING RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL DIRECTOR REPORT
. The report had been circulated.
. Robert Clack had been the Acting Retail and Commercial
Director for a period of six weeks.
. The current bid, which was from January 2017 to December
2019 was based on the premise that the Retail Team would
be completely self-funding by the end of 2019.
. The fact that the Retail Team is not self-funding means the
NFSP is in a position where the team needs funding to go ;
forward. I
° A reality check had been given to the Retail Team at their
recent meeting on what they had failed to achieve.
* The Team will need to be held to account in terms of
performance. €
° Working on the basis that a new grant will be made
available for the Team going forward, from January 2020
the Team will have to adapt to a new way of working.
° Need to offer better value for money for not just
subpostmasters but for Post Office and the NFSP.
° The three main pillars of strategy will be around retail,
commercial and engagement.
° There will be a complete re-alignment of the Team.
. The team’s current contracts expire at the end of 2019. This
gives the NFSP an opportunity to re look at the contracts.
Looking at a change in the role title.
° Would like to see more of retail developments rather than a
consultancy.
° Need to do significantly more visits to subpostmasters than
the team has done in the past.
° Had conducted an analysis over the past year on the
amount of times the Retail Team conducted first visits. It
showed that over 45 weeks of the year each consultant had
done 0.98 retail visits per week.
° Whilst it is accepted they some subpostmasters require
multiple visits it is recognised that significantly more visits
are needed to be done by the team.
e The Team's Contracts currently state that the “role is home
based, but you will on occasions have to visit’. Believed
this was completely the wrong way round. This will be
changed to a field base role.
° Going forward from 1* January 2020 the split will be 80%
out in the field and 20% home based to complete office
based tasks. The team will need to be more pro-active. i
. The team will be measured on performance and have
targets to achieve. They will have quarterly reviews.
. Currently have 34 commercial partners. Products need to
have good value for subpostmasters but also create income
for the NFSP.
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6c.
16 of the 34 current suppliers have not had one order sign
up ina year.
Commercial activity up to the third quarter was £51,000
with £31,000 generated from IPS.
Income generated works out at £11.00 per week per team
member.
The costs of having the Retail Team is £625,000,
Have committed to Post Office that they will be provided
with regular data updates.
Need to have more engagement with the Regional and
Branch network.
The Retail Team should engage more with Shoreham.
Support from the Team at Shoreham is important and is
appreciated.
Retail Team members will introduce suppliers to
Subpostmasters.
Suggested suppliers attend meetings and provide free
seer Laden besensve nt
Irrelevant
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14 &15 October 2019
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° Sharon Merryweather to send an email reminder to those
that attended. (ACTION
e Send Bharat Visani a copy of what was circulated to those _
who attended the meeting. (ACTION
NFSP Forum
i 1 IDECISION/ACTION
i H [ACTION
6d. I I
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6e. TRUSTEES TO THE BOARD OF BENEVOLENCE REPORT
° Agreed and confirmed grants were £1,241.37
° Agreed to pay £7,410,00 on the en bloc list and holding back £1,820.00
for further reporting, making a potential of £9,230.00 to be paid.
° Christmas gifts to remain as 2018, £250 per adult and £150.00 per
dependent child.
7. AOB
e Sharon Merryweather reported that at Conference 2020 the
theme will be “back to school”,
. The Conference seating will be theatre style.
. Sue Jude thanked the Chair for the way he had conducted
the meeting.
Sharon Merryweather
Lynda Willoughby
October 2019
Board Meeting 14 &15 October 2019 - Page 32 of 32
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