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STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
FOR USE OF NATIONAL EXECUTIVE COUNCIL OFFICERS ONLY
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF SUB-POSTMASTERS
REPORT OF THE
NATIONAL EXECUTIVE COUNCIL
MEETING
held on
18th, 19th and 20th MARCH 2001
at
THE GRIMSTOCK COUNTRY HOUSE HOTEL
WARWICKSHIRE
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Report of a Meeting of the
National Executive Council
Held on 18" 19" and 20th March 2001
at The Grimstock Country House Hotel, Warwickshire
Present Mr N Bradbrook - National President and Chairman
Mr AR Butlin Mr D F Marshall
Mr M Challinor Mr D Milner
Mr M Darvill Mr H Morgan-Jones
Mr P Finlay Mr J Morris
Mr J Jannetta Mr J Peberdy
Mrs P M Jenkins Mrs S Reeves
Mr C Jones Mr M Roger
Mr M Jones Mr P Walsh
Mrs J Kendall Mr J Willshaw
Mr I McLean
In Mr C Baker General Secretary
Attendance: Mr K Davis Assistant General Secretary
Mrs K Davis Assistant General Secretary I
THE NATIONAL PRESIDENT opened the meeting. He started by saying
i the meeting at any moment
_I He then asked for a minute’s
r, BEM, JP, past National
President.
GRO
Due to the need for Motions for Conference to be discussed by the
Executive Council, items under A4 would be taken first, but reported in the
correct numerical order of the Meeting Agenda.
On the Supplementary Report Clauses 9 and 10 would be deferred until
Tuesday morning.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY then informed the Executive Council that this
was the last scheduled meeting for a number of colleagues. He said that at
Conference there might or might not be a meeting. At the back of the room
had been put the lists for people to put their names down to stand on the
various committees, the dead line for applications would be lunchtime
Tuesday.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING - - MARCH 2001 Pace 1
THE GENERAL SECRETARY advised that the Secretary of State for Trade
and Industry, Stephen Byers MP was to address the Executive Council
immediately after lunch on the following day.
This part of the meeting was recorded in detail and is the subject of a
separate report entitled “Report of the Meeting between Stephen
Byers MP and The National Executive Council.
AM REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS OF PREVIOUS MEETINGS
Executive Council Meeting held on 8th and 9th January 2001
¢ The Minutes of this meeting had been circulated and were
approved.
A/2 MATTERS ARISING FROM THE REPORTS
There were none.
AZ. REPORT OF THE NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE
Nothing to report.
1. GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS PO PZ
1. (a) Mori Research PO PZ
MR PEBERDY said that the results were expected soon which would
provide interesting and useful information which would then be circulated to
the Executive Council.
4 (b) Response to Preserving Access to Post Offices PO PZ
In Rural Areas
1 (c) Postcomm Research Study PO PZ
14 (d) Response to Licence for Consignia Ple PO PZ
A Consultation Document
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:
1. (e) Post Office Closures in Wales PO PZ
Response to Welsh Affairs Committee
MR PEBERDY commended Annabel Barnett on the excellent research
papers she had produced, which would be useful documents to make
reference to if the need arose from the public and other organisations which
might be addressed..
2. PERFORMANCE AND INNOVATION UNIT (PIU) PO PZ 01
2. (a) Subpostmasters Conferences PO PZ 01
MR PEBERDY reported that the Subpostmasters Conferences had started
badly, so much so that both he and THE GENERAL SECRETARY had
spoken to Dave Miller with the result that several pieces of information were
sent out together with questions, Both he and THE GENERAL
SECRETARY had got Stuart Sweetman, Dave Miller, Basil Larkins and
Alan Johnson into the same room, to try to have the statement made by the
Government reiterated and tell Basi! Larkins how the Federation saw it.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY laid down certain caveats which was the
stance of the Federation. Alan Johnson was not too keen on what was
being said. They tried to address where the Federation felt they had been
going wrong from the messages that had been taken on board from the
Conferences. There would now be small group meetings in the Western
Territory. There would be a different message now with heavy reference to
the Federation, heavy reference to compensation package in place, new
contract negotiations, ali negotiations would have the involvement of the
Federation. Both he and THE GENERAL SECRETARY were very
pleasantly surprised.
MR MORGAN JONES questioned how the Post Office had got it so wrong.
Eric Logan had given out the wrong information particularly about the
Universal Bank.
MRS REEVES enquired about the future of the Conferences later in the
year. Had the Post Office taken on board the problems that had come out
of the Subpostmasters Conferences.
MR PEBERDY replied that Eric Logan had been admonished and the
errors of his ways pointed out. At this stage they had received an
assurance that the Post Office would deal with the Federation in the
Network Project Reinvention Board.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING = - MARCH 2001 Pace 3
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MR PEBERDY then spoke about the numerous identical letters that had
been received from the Sheffield and Chesterfield areas to which THE
GENERAL SECRETARY had responded in order to ensure that the
message of the Federation was delivered.
MR JANNETTA said that maybe there had been an attempt at trying to get
a National Campaign started as identical letters had landed in Scotland.
2. (b) Letter to the Prime Minister PO PZ 01
Letter to the Chancellor
MR PEBERDY reported that these letters had emanated from the meeting
with Geoffrey Norris which had been arranged in order to get the
Federation’s views and also the requirements of the Federation put into the
Labour Party Manifesto. The Chancellor in his Budget Statement should
te-state the Government’s commitment to this funding with suggestions that
it should be in the Labour Party Handbook. That there should be some
statement about post offices and some commitment when the Government
decided to go to the country.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY said that he had seen a draft of the
Handbook which included one and a half pages on post offices. He was
extremely encouraged. He continued that post offices would also be in the
Conservative Party Manifesto and he would soon be having a meeting
because they were mis cuing the return to the Benefits Payment Card, that
would be completely the wrong thing because everything was now on the
banking role and that would be a retrograde step to introduce only the
Benefits Payment Card. They were also on about privatisation.
The NATIONAL PRESIDENT asked THE GENERAL SECRETARY whether
he thought the present Government had any ideas on privatisation to which
THE GENERAL SECRETARY replied that he did most definitely and that
by 2005 they would have had a go at it. The whole Consignia issue would
enable them to do it in Europe, to acquire things abroad and the separation
of the business into the constituent parts and bringing together everything
under one umbrella, That they would have the brand Post Office, Royal
Mail their brand and ParcelForce their brand, all to do with privatising the
Post Office down the track. As the Post Office wanted to break away from
the public sector. This would continue where the Conservative Party had
left off. This move away from the public sector towards privatisation would
be resisted by the CWU.
2. (c) Universal Bank PO PZ 01
THE GENERAL SECRETARY reported that there were difficulties with the
banks on the opening of PAT 14 accounts. The British Bankers Association
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING- - MARCH 2001 Pace 4
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had met with the Minister. It had started with the Halifax who had set their
face completely against post offices having accounts and in fact sharing the
brand. The Government's position was because they had all followed suit,
none of the banks wanted post offices to open their accounts. They
argued that if subpostmasters opened their accounts then subpostmasters
were opening accounts for the banks, not the banks and that would lead to
people having bank accounts which they might or might not want. They felt
that this would facilitate money laundering. They did not want their
branches to sit side by side with post office branches which they felt were
scruffy and there was the payment issue.
But whilst the banks were up for the PAT 14 accounts drawing money out
of the Post Offices and ATMs, they were not up for opening accounts. The
Government's position was whether or not to sign the Memorandum of
Understanding, whether to get that and then work towards account opening
down the track or whether to continue to fight and delay the signing of the
Memorandum of Understanding until this issue had been resolved. The
longer it would take to sign the Memorandum of Understanding, the more
people would get nervous, the more the banks would get nervous, the more I
the City would get nervous and the more opportunities there would be for I
the banks to slip away.
He finished by saying that the Executive Council would need to pursue
Stephen Byers on this and make their feelings known to him. THE
GENERAL SECRETARY said that it might not be the end of the world if
subpostmasters did not open these accounts because if the opening of PAT
14 accounts was made more difficult then one might be more inclined to
have a Post Office Card Account. However if there was incentivisation for
PAT 14 then the more difficult that is made then it was more difficult for
subpostmasters to get incentive, PAT 14 would enable more than one hit
per week at the Post Office as opposed to the Card Account which was one
hit one day, so he admitted that he had mixed feelings. He said that the j
Government would say that they have got to have PAT 14s opened over
Post Office counters.
MR MORGAN JONES asked just one hit on one day did he understand
from that that if the benefit was paid into the bank account that the
customer could not take part of that benefit in cash on one day and leave
some in.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY replied that currently the Card Account was
a replacement order book, opened at a Post Office, cash out only at a Post
Office, drawn out in one go, but he was still working with Government to
extend this.
MRS REEVES asked how did the scenario which the General Secretary
had described fit with the Government's requirement to prevent financial
exclusion. Part of their reasoning was that people would be able to access
the bank account in which they could save if they wanted, so one hit and
you take the lot out was not really what the Government wanted.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING - - MARCH 2001 Pace 5
THE GENERAL SECRETARY replied that it was currently the
Government's view that PAT 14 accounts would deliver the promises on
financial exclusion, the replacement order book — Post Office Card Account,
no more than that. Government would fulfil their commitment. Financial
exclusion fulfilled by the PAT 14, First of all the 16 million people that
wanted to continue to use the order book selling the Post Office Card
Account, for those that wanted a little bit more sophisticated then straight
forward Order Book, Universal Bank had now become Universal Banking
Services.
MR DARVILL replied how could we call this Universal Bank, it was not a
Universal Bank, it was not fulfilling social exclusion.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY replied that Universal Banking Services
consisted of two tiers, on the back of the Gordon Brown letter was
circulated the written answer from Alan Johnson to Geraldine Smith which
explained what Universal Banking was. The difference between the Post
Office Card Account and the Benefits Payment Card that the Conservatives
wanted to introduce was the Card Account was an account and with the
banking engine the Federation was hopeful that there would be an
electronic purse later down the track. All those 16 million customers were
entitled to have an account if they wanted one. The Universal Banking
Services next tier was precisely the part about financial exclusion and that
was the Government's answer to it, because it would cost the Government
nothing, just 1 penny.
MR. ROGER asked how was the account going to be sold.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY said that there would be an information pack
and that the Federation would be part of drawing up that information pack.
That information pack would have a number of different banks forms to
open, That would seem like the way it was going to work. What the banks
had been saying was that they did not want that because they could not
control, subpostmasters would be in control of what account, and would
decide who had the account and who did not, not the banks. The pack
would start from 2003 which would have all the information in relevant to
make up ones mind as to what account was wanted., Card Account, Pat 14
but also a steer towards using ones own account. He said it would be a
good one for Stephen Byers.
MRS REEVES asked whether it would be a straight transfer from the order
book to the card to which THE GENERAL SECRETARY replied that he did
not know the answer to that but it would be a good one for Stephen Byers
but it would be a bank account run by a bank on behalf of the Post Office,
banking rules would apply.
MR PEBERDY related how Alan Johnson had addressed a meeting of
subpostmasters in Leicester two weeks ago and was asked this question.
He said that the name had got to be different, that the Post Office Card
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Account was what it said and was not a bank account. He said that
subpostmasters would be incentivised to open PAT 14 accounts, that the
banks did not want these people.
THE NATIONAL PRESIDENT said Subpostmasters were looking for work,
this was the future, somehow or other subpostmasters had got to become
the biggest banking network in the country. There had been an assurance
that the banks were going to put in £100 million.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY said that the banks did in fact put in nothing
like what they should have put in, the banks did not like having to pay the
Post Office Card Account and their own PAT 14, the growth areas were still
there. He told the Executive Council to remember the 16 million people that
were there now, if they wanted an order book replacement they had got the
Post Office Card Account, currently losing beneficiaries, going to the bank, .
by use of the PAT 14, the next tier they could be provided with what they
wanted which was ATM machines and Direct Debit. The only two places
would be ATMs and Post Offices. He said that there was no reason why
everyone over the age of 18 with a bank account should not be able to
access it at the Post Office. It would then be up to SubPostmasters to sell
that opportunity to its customers,
The Executive Council then welcomed the return visit of the Secretary of
State for Trade and Industry, Mr. Stephen Byers MP.
The meeting continued the following morning with THE NATIONAL
PRESIDENT thanking everyone for the night before.
MR PEBERDY then continued the meeting on the subject of the Universal
Bank. He said that there was no more to say on the Universal Bank.
Stephen Byers had given the Executive Council a bit more assurance, but
Universal Bank had still got to be delivered. MR PEBERDY went on to say
that the work of THE GENERAL SECRETARY and the Negotiating
Committee would continue on behalf of the Executive Council, which would
be pursued at every opportunity.
The Negotiating Committee had on the Agenda a two day meeting early the
following month, namely 5th and 6th April with the Post Office to specifically
embrace some of the issues which were contained in the Performance and
Innovation Report such as the Universal Bank, Government General
Practitioner and Network Reinvention as well as the implementation of a
new contract and a decision on a new payment system.
2. (d) Government General Practitioner PO PZ 01
MR PEBERDY said that the pilot was about to roll out in Leicestershire and
Rutland. There was now a user group, all members of the Leicester Branch
Committee had been down to London twice and seen the kit, they had put
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their requirements, it had fitted in very well and both the group and the Post
Office were taking on board a lot of their suggestions. Surveys were
running rapidly. Some 60 surveys had been completed for installation of
the kit, using mainly unoccupied space. The Post Office had some
concerns which had been put to Stephen Byers.
MRS REEVES enquired how was the Post Office managing what type of kit
went in to what office, what level of GGP went to what outlet,
MR PEBERDY replied that he had seen the only set, but that there were
four basic solutions, the first one had many many kiosks, it was a screen,
free standing, very slim, not too deep, printer at the bottom, it could be
adapted to the wall, mounted in those areas where there was less floor
space because basically the four pieces of kit were the thing they called a
signpost.
There were Menu Services, very superb piece of kit, all the subpostmasters
were impressed and amazed. There was a kiosk and a signpost and then
two leaflet dispensers, semi curved A4 and adaptable, one or two would go
into an office depending on the space, a web phone. It could go into a L
shaped corner, in a corner, or an external corner or a straight line up to 2
metres long, it needed a metre space in front of it
MRS REEVES asked whether there would be the restriction of having GGP
was down to space and nothing to do with office volumes.
MR PEBERDY replied that it was nothing at all, they would put in the
largest piece of kit if the space was there, smaller offices would not have a
big kit.
MR. WILLSHAW asked whether the kit was POPOS size.
MR PEBERDY replied that it was slightly different in shape, four of the User
Group had had their office surveyed including his wife's office. POPOS
would go at the expense of GGP.
MR JANNETTA said that this information did not fit in with what the Post
Office had said in the Roadshows in Scotland. They were told that GGP
was dependent on the size of the office and the volumes of business at the
office. The Crown Offices were going to have everything. The Post Office
was giving out the wrong message.
MR PEBERDY said that there were 279 offices in Leicester, BTHs did
feature in the range, was one of their basis, but truthfully, that was not what
they had done because the main thrust of offices were between two
categories of office which would have between 1.75 and a metre. Part of
the GGP Trial involved things called surgeries, there might only be three of
them in the pilot which might well be Branch Offices in the pilot that have
got room to do surgeries. This would involve the subpostmaster booking an
booking for some one to come in. For example booking an appointment for
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a representative from the Inland Revenue to come in and talk to a
customer. The Leicester Branch Secretary was asked if she had a room for
surgeries,
2. (e) Network Reinvention PO PZ01
MR PEBERDY said that he would update the Executive Council on the
Network Reinvention Project Board, an explanation of what the Programme
Board did, background and activity to date, of which there had been three
meetings to date. There would be wider liaison with the NFSP and the
Business on negotiations on things that were going to go forward.
The Post Office were using a management tool which was actually
controlling everything that was needed to deliver what the PIU Report had
set the Post Office out to do in this direction, they had bought that piece of
kit in as a computer programme, it was being used in many pieces of work.
It was process driven, the programmes did work to a standard approach
which ensured that complex and interdependent activities were co-
ordinated. Its overall objectives, it monitored progress, it made key strategic
decisions. It did not do any of the detailed work including any negotiations.
Everything that happened on the Programme Board was the Governing bit
of it, the Projects were done by Projects Board below that and Negotiations
would take place with the Negotiating Committee on behalf of the Executive
Council which was where the Programme Board’s accountabilities were.
Any proposals were consistent with the strategic aims set out in the PIU
Report. This was one of its main statements, it reflected Stakeholders
Requirements, ensured that it stayed in that direction and did not deviate
from what the Board had laid down and that they took proper account of
any changes.
The Programme Board was chaired by Alan Barrie, there was one
representative from Network Bank, one from GGP. Someone from Mails or
Service Delivery, Sales and Service General Manager, (Tim Thorpe), Post
Office Network Human Resources Director Peter Turgoose, Key Function
Heads of Post Office Network, John Peberdy as NFSP representative.
How did the NFSP fit in. Obviously the first thing was that the seat on the
Programme Board enabled high level influence on the programme and
checks that the outputs were appropriate. It did not cut across NFSP’s
wider role in negotiation. Mr Peberdy said he was not there to negotiate,
negotiations were to be done with different groups different bodies For
example, a lot of work was being done about Horizon, David Smith sat on
the Programme Board, also had input in other works that were being done,
dual functionality. It was being done in several strands and involved the
Negotiating Committee and Executive Council and would still continue with
all the other channels in which the Federation influenced the business
inside and outside.
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MR PEBERDY said that he was there to influence the Board and make
sure it took into account subpostmasters view point. To check that
subpostmasters input negotiations were happening at the detailed level. To
help guide the overall programme in subpostmasters interests.
That’s what the statement of requirement said when it was written and
some of the phrases were lifts from that statement.
The work was being done in several strands. Commercial strand looking at
the necessary changes to create PIU vision of bigger, better, brighter urban
post offices, social strand looking at avoiding rural closures, supporting
urban deprived offices. Format development strand, looking at the various
formats of post offices, such as combi stores, open plan. Maintenance
strand, looking at everything from scales, security, DDA.
What did each of these strands do.
They did the detailed work which was needed to produce outputs which the
Programme Board required. For example, how were they going to make alll
offices DDA compliant. This would often involve negotiations with the
NFSP. Any contract changes or compensation arrangements now would
be negotiated with the NFSP before the Programme Board endorsed them.
Where were we now.
Determining the overall direction.
Preparation Phase
Implementation Phase
Maintenance Phase.
Programme Vision
The Network Reinvention Programme would deliver an improved network of
operational efficiency and therefore an improved contribution to the
business financial gap. A commercial return on investment for agents, A
big deliverer or requirement of the Programme Board was that the work
was returned to post offices so that subpostmasters investments were
therefore maintained and improved. Post Offices would provide an
attractive physical environment for the customer experience, accessible
and uniquely convenient with the flexibility to take a full range of products.
A very big requirement in the Programme's vision, a stable social network
both in the rural and urban deprived areas. An improved outlet working
environment which was supportive of delivering good service.
To take this work forward which would be the start of the next phases, the
first would involve negotiations with Mike Granville’s team acting on behalf
of Post Office Network. However the aim was that both organisations
worked together in developing these propositions, for example, the two day
workshop, Mike Granville and Senior Managers discussing how this was
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going to be put together. One of the people who was working below the
Board to produce work for the Board, one of them was John Holyroyd who
was basically in charge of the commercial and network strand, he was
process driven and programme mad and was likely the man that every
RNM and every HORN in the country would have to speak to.
That workshop would deal with the revisions to the contract and
remuneration, compensation and how the changes were to be processed in
the real world. They were testing a model, not doing work with it, very
expensive computer programme, which was giving them all the
demographics, where people shop, why they go to shop there, etc., which
could define the ultimate network, superimpose what was in that area,
could see either if there were too many or secondly if they were in the
wrong place. That was as far as the Programme Board had been told that
the Project Board had gone. There was a man called Jonathan Clark,
South West, Western Territory used to be in Network Transformation in the
Western Territory who was actually working with that model so the only
rumblings that might be heard was to test it, he might be asking RNMs
about a particular office in that area, which did not mean that an office was
blighted. I
MR PEBERDY said that he was on the Board to ensure that the
subpostmasters voice was heard and that the role of the NFSP was
understood so that the Programme Board had not got any
misapprehensions about the mechanics that had to be gone though, to
explain to them that the Federation's timescales might be longer than they
wanted in certain directions for certain decisions, that process had got to be
put in place. It was early days, the work had only so far been preparatory
as the Board moved into greater detail from the new Post Office Financial !
Year and had been totally assured that the Federation's input negotiation
would take place.
Mr Cyril Jones asked whether it was possible to have copies of the slides
and if so how secret was this.
Mr Peberdy said he would have to ask the Board’s permission, he said that
he would try.
3. OFFSHORE ISLANDS
3a) Jersey O1JY
Mr Davis reported that he had had a meeting with Jersey Post on the 25"
January. He had been hopeful of having available for the Council the
Action Points from that meeting, but there were certain aspects of the
Minutes of the meeting which he was not satisfied with and had written
back to them for changes. It had been a long day from 8.30 a.m and he
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had got the 6.30 plane back. They had rolled out their Director of Finance,
the Group Retail Manager and a solicitor from the solicitors firm that looked
after the interests of the Post Office, so it had been high level.
The meeting had been to discuss the contract, Jersey Post had tried to
explain things away by saying that they were not going to implement the
changes that Mr Davis was objecting to immediately, for example, a type of
Introductory Fee, they had never had it before and were now looking to put
that into the contract, Mr Davis said that he would never agree to that.
They said that they were not going to use it but just wanted it in the contract
in case they wanted to use it.
Eventually the contract was resolved and they then dealt with the
subpostmasters pay claim which had been outstanding from June 2000
which was 5.5 % increase which he got, they then discussed a new
payment structure which was accepted in principle to be worked into the
system. As part of that discussion, Mr. Davis reported that he had spotted
the special cash allowance had not been increased since 1997, so as part ¢
of that negotiation before a new payment system started if they wanted to
start from ground zero then they would have to bring up that special cash
allowance to its current value. Then one would have to start applying the
equation on how to pay for the future bearing in mind the principle that no
one should lose and no one should gain from the changeover.
Mr Davis also insisted that they should pay it back to 1997 which they duly
agreed and that was one of the things that was missing from the Minutes.
They had used the UK pay tables since 1969 when they became a
separate post office administration so that they could not drop that. Those
were the three main issues. They also covered the arrangements for the
new insurance products that were going to be sold and they agreed a 10%
premium payment to subpostmasters. Advised of developments with
Lloyds TSB and Barclays.
He asked that in accepting this report to accept the outcome of those DEOIIOP
negotiations. This was agreed.
4. MAILWORK PC MP 04
MR PEBERDY reported that this was a success story on behalf of those
400 Mailwork SubPostmasters. Royal Mail now had set up the Arm Service
Delivery and were adapting a can do mentality and with the work of the
Mailwork Forum were progressing quite rapidly through some authorisation
of some big spend into Mailwork Sub Post Offices to make them space
compliant.
Phase one had been approved, Phase two was being worked through, they
were prioritising space deficiency in relation to the number of staff and
individual cases were very much being approached with a can do mentality.
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Post Office Network's representatives, Lee Drohan and Steve Gibbs, were
like terriers in not wanting to part with Mailwork, in fact so much so that
there was a case in the Midlands where they were going to put it back and
with the help of other members of the Forum who worked individually on
cases around the country at Mailwork offices, he advised that they were
going somewhere.
There was going to be a meeting on the Way Forward Agreement, which
would be the next thing to have impact on postmen in those offices and the
Mailwork Forum was demanding that postmen get better information. The
recent article in the Subpostmaster generated some phone calls and there
was now a contact list of the Mailwork Forum members which included the
GENERAL SECRETARY.
He reported that it was a success story and no subpostmaster had been I
asked to pay a penny. There had been a discussion on trying to decide the
formula, some offices were being totally rebuilt, new sorting office.
5. COUNTER AUTOMATION PC NW 06 01
(a) — Horizon Polling Problems PC NW 06 01
Report on Action Points PC NW 06 01
MR PEBERDY reported that these problems are still being highlighted and
just recently had been circulated and reported on the problems in
organising meetings with the business but now monthly meetings had been
scheduled and there had been a meeting on the 26" February 2001 from I
which could be seen from the Action Points, there were 28 items that I
tequired action, some of them the business still had to come back to them I
on.
Amongst it one was to set up the two day meeting, a separate meeting on
Losses and Gains Policy, a separate group to bring in the Horizon
problems. There had been stories about the problems that had been
created by Horizon, shortages, Horizon was not doing things, the problem
with losses having to be made good immediately, and all the things about
Suspense Accounts. He reported that he wanted a group to examine this.
He had been led to understand that there was £10 million in Suspense
Accounts now as opposed to about £2 million 18 months ago, Another
feature of the system was that it highlighted everything.
He reported that THE GENERAL SECRETARY had tried to deal with the
recent polling problems and that there was a letter addressing it in the
current month’s Subpostmaster.
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MR WALSH asked a question about Losses and Gains Policy, whose
responsibility was it when a claim for money was sent out whether it was
put in as per the Losses and Gains Policy or whether the total amount
should be asked for. When Post Office Network requested repayment of
money, they would know in the Losses and Gains Policy they should only
be asking for 25% plus £2,000 if the loss was £10,000, why did they not ask
for that immediately
MR PEBERDY responded that they got the Security Report that would say
that the office was x% culpable, if 100% was £10,000 he believed that the
business tried it on and he had told the business that this had got to stop
because all it did was lead to an appeal and there had been problems with
a particular HORN in this regard.
MR CYRIL JONES said that there had been a meeting with a HORN, and
this problem had been brought up. He had been very concerned about this
problem causing problems in the appeals area and forcing unnecessary
appeals. Security went in at some point and made a recommendation that
the subpostmaster was responsible for the entire loss. That was then sent
off to the RNM, because the final decision as to whether to ask for that
entire amount. In most cases the RNM took the report as verbatim which
was causing a lot of problems.
MR MORGAN JONES highlighted a particular case which was a hostage
situation and the subpostmaster was asked to pay £53,000 which had now
been reduced to £5,250. At the interview for appeal, the subpostmaster
was asked if he was insured and that gave MR MORGAN JONES great
deal of concern. Eagle Star provided a £5,000 cover under certain
circumstances.
MR PEBERDY replied that he was concerned that in the original Robbery
Losses and Gains Policy, the business tried to write in £5,000. The
Federation disabused them of that in the Negotiating Committee and Mike
Granville as it was then and now Steve Gibbs re wrote it and wrote it out of
the Losses and Gains Policy. However he was concerned that Zurich was
saying that a subpostmaster could get £5,000 of insurance if they insured
with them. There would be a separate meeting on this because the
business was still operating on a 1998 document for assistance and
counter losses through assistants.
MRS KENDALL spoke about the original letter requesting for liability which
was handed to the business. The first line of the letter said that the
subpostmaster had already been found guilty and was liable which was
putting subpostmasters through a lot of stress. This was a totally
inappropriate letter.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY said that there would be a separate meeting
with Losses and Gains and then told the Council that he was going to give
them some private information which they should be very careful about.
There had been a gentleman from ICL who had just been arrested for
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stealing out of post offices when he was carrying out Horizon installations.
Clearly there were implications for those offices where this man had been
working in. The identities of those offices would soon be known. So if
anyone was asked to make good losses particularly losses in or around the
time of installation, he advised that time was spent delaying.
MR WILLSHAW said that he had got one at the moment, one particular
HORN was asking for 100%.
MRS REEVES reported that she thought that there might be pressure being
put on the HORN to make good losses for the end of the financial year.
MR PEBERDY said that they had just sent a very strong signal to Mike
Granville that because of the financial plight of the business they were
playing a lot harder ball over losses and sticking everything they could on to
the subpostmaster. There was pressure on the business, end of the
financial year.
(c) Eye Sight Tests PC NW 06 01
MR PEBERDY reported that they had made some requirements on the I
business in the Negotiating Committee meeting of which they were waiting '
some outcomes. I
6.. SUBPOSTMASTERS CONTRACT PC SC I
(a) Standards for Agency Offices PC SC 03
MR PEBERDY reported that the Council would be pleased to see that the
Federation managed to write the statement when the standard leaflet was
sent out again with name badges and accompanying letter clearly said that
they could be displayed, could use a pseudonym. The Negotiating
Committee tried very hard to get them to reprint the poster and the leaflet
and it was agreed that they were going to correct it at the next reprint.
(b) Appointment Scale PC SC
04
MR PEBERDY reported that this was good news all round.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING - - MARCH 2001 Pace 15
7 SUBPOSTMASTERS PAY PC SP 04
(a) January 2001 Review of MSPO Payments PC SP 2001
MR PEBERDY reported that the Negotiating Committee had met to discuss
the Modified Contract and perceive the areas which were needed to be
addressed particularly in advance of this year’s pay round.
(b) Pay Claim 20014 PC SP 2001
MR PEBERDY reported that the draft of this years pay claim from the
Negotiating Committee had been circulated at the meeting. It needed
minor alternations which the Executive Council went through and amended
accordingly.
MR MORGAN JONES had a question about offices represented by the
Federation, he knew that the Federation was able to represent all offices
but did not in fact represent all offices in certain circumstances. Was it right
that it should be put in the context and what was the rationale behind it to
which THE GENERAL SECRETARY replied that it was misleading, that it
was for all offices of the kind represented by the NFSP, not negotiating for
franchises but introducing modified.
MR ROGER asked whether the Federation was asking for 15% for rural
offices and 30% for urban offices.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY replied that the PIU report referred to the
flow through of money out of the urban area into the rural.
MR JANNETTA thought it was a mickey mouse scheme and he did not
think the Federation should be putting this sort of scheme in. There was no
chance of getting it.
MR FINLAY asked when would it be known whether an office was urban or
tural.
MR PEBERDY reported that a gentleman called Phil Smith had been
appointed to be the Tsar of the deprived and rural network. He had a team
of eleven to tag those offices that conform to that 10,000 conurbation being
classified as a rural and he understood that as recently as last week they
had got up to 9,000 offices. It was believed that between 9,000 and 9,800
offices would fall into that category. That knowledge would be shared.
Very large offices would fall into that category now would be ring fenced
and safe.
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He thought that when it was known when we went around bleeting that
subpostmasters were going to the wall and proving it in many instances,
when it was known that there were other monies coming into the Post
Office to be managed, the Negotiating Committee thought that there was no
harm in telling. It would be wonderful to achieve it. The Negotiating
Committee believed that this year they should know that, as this year a new
contract and new payment system were going to be negotiated, those sorts
of sums should be talked about.
MRS REEVES queried the 10,000 rural offices and the additional 15% in
the pay claim for bigger, brighter, better offices but within that element of
10,000 was going to be a lot offices who would still have to conform and the
£2 million from Mr. Byers would not help them very much, that would leave
a big chunk of those offices, who would be large rural offices who would be
required to make investment in the future but would not be included in the
additional fund.
MR PEBERDY replied that the sum was £270 million was available for
those offices not £2 million which was for when they could not get anyone
to open an office or when a front room had to be converted, that money
would be available. The £270 million available from 2003, a large chunk of
that was for the protection of the rural network.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY said that this was the year for flagging up
the cross subsidy. There was an assumption on using PIU definition of
rural. Rural had not been defined, it was referred to as historic.
MR JANNETTA mentioned that this had been done before in the Hartley
McMaster which had not produced any results.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY said that it had to be told, no opportunity
must be missed particularly in the PIU and the Crown Offices..
MR PEBERDY asked that the Draft Pay letter before them was the one that
should be sent to the Business.
MR PEBERDY then went on to speak about the draft letter for the pilot of
the GGP.. The Negotiating Committee met on the 26th February to get the
money out so that the pilot would roll, so that those subpostmasters in
Leicestershire and Rutland knew what they would be giving up in wall
space and what they would be getting in return.
He reported that it was unchartered water, the first part was on the space
element and the Negotiating Committee were not sure that those
represented the mean averages, the transaction hours were a stab in the
dark. There would be variants dependent on where the kit would go. None
of the subpostmasters had been asked to give up prime retail. He thought
the £500 per square foot pretty generous. The gross profit margins could
be argued. He asked the Executive Council to consider it in the light that
they still wanted to tweak it. He believed that in this instance Mike Granville
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was being a totally honest broker. He said that they needed to retain a sum
of money for different circumstances. Main categories of offices would fall
between one and two, originally there were five categories, the first ’
category might have a surgery. The Negotiating Committee felt that there
should be a slight tweak between one and two, that this was a reasonable I
sum of money with assistants properly paid to go to training which could I
involve two to three days training. He reported that there would be a
Roadshow on the Ist April in Leicester.
A proposal was made that the Executive Council go ahead with this [ACTION
document in those parameters. DECISION
(c) Small Office Payments PC SP 2001
MR PEBERDY reported that the Post Office had at last agreed to remove
telephone call allowance and holiday substitution from the calculation of
pay for Small Office and this would be included in the next round of
National Minimum Wage requirements. The Negotiating Committee could
not accept this, it should not be gross income should be net income to get
the National Minimum Wage.
a
MR MILNER asked whether the result of the Haywood case, was there any
danger that this would be withdrawn to which THE GENERAL
SECRETARY replied that it would not..
(d) Alternative Collection Points PC SP 01
MR PEBERDY reported that this had been discussed at the recent
Negotiating Committee meeting with the Business, there were still some
actions to come from it. Mr Butlin had had his first meeting with the
representative on the patch, it looked as though it would go to National Roll
Out, there were some slight worries.
MR DARVILL reported that he did not think 99% would be collected within
seven days, 3000 items a month, were held for three weeks at the end of
which 80 or 90 were being sent back.
MR PEBERDY said that this trial was for ordered goods.
MR WILLSHAW asked whether there were any Mailwork Offices that were
Alternative Collection Points and were they were paid for 793 work to which
Mr. Peberdy replied that they would be paid for this.
MR BUTLIN said that there were Mailwork Offices involved in this trial.
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(e) Motorola Returns PC SP 01
MR PEBERDY reported that they were making a case that Motorola
Returns which were free post but are special delivery items should attract
payment and the Negotiating Committee were pursuing that line of battle.
(f) Payment Cards Ltd (PCL PC SP 01
MR PEBERDY said that this was the company who were providing the trial
in the Manchester area. The Negotiating Committee had a presentation in
Coton House, another can do bunch, if the trial worked well in Manchester,
he thought that there was a great future for it throughout the country and it I
would be a very good product. The team had worked hard, he hoped the I
Manchester SubPostmasters made it work. This particular company had j
i
I
I
their deal signed up with the Post Office. He said that it would be a while
before it progressed.
MR. MORGAN JONES asked whether there was any discussion on any
other types of business other than the ticketing.
MR PEBERDY replied that it had massive capabilities, scheduled to go live
in November 2001, there would be 150,000 applications processed before
Christmas.
MR CHALLINOR said that there were several different varieties of Smart
Cards, the particular one that the Post Office was going was was one that
did not actually touch any equipment so that was why it had a 5 year shelf
line, it was shown to the reader. The other thing was that the consortium in I
PCL was made up of the manufacturer of the equipment, it was very cost I
effective for bus companies. £80 to put the equipment on a bus compared !
with other technologies in this field which were much more expensive to fit
a bus. It was right there at the right price. This product must be delivered I
correctly. I Manchester had a huge responsibility for the rest of I
subpostmasters during the 4 month trial. Executive Officers in the region
should be encouraged to deliver this. Could be the largest network in
Europe with this technology. Extended hours could come into this.
MR PEBERDY agreed that this was big business, potential volumes were
huge.
MR WALSH asked whether this would come on to the Horizon Kit.
MR PEBERDY replied that Smart Kit technology would migrate to Horizon,
short term piece of kit.
MR DAVIS reported that there was a small scheme in Caephilly. The
Negotiating Committee were negotiating a rate for the transaction.
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(g) POPOS — Payments to Offices PC SP 01
MR PEBERDY reported that the Negotiating Committee and the business
were streaks apart and their latest offer was £100 per panel subject to
audit, the end of the road, leave it out in the voluntary sector. The
Negotiating Committee wanted to go back and say that they noted it.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY said that he was not happy with it but if
subpostmasters wanted to take it they should but he was not happy with
that because it cut across bigger, brighter, better and also GGP. It was out
of step with what the Post Office was doing but if subpostmaster had got
space on the wall and if they had a POPOS panel why should the
Federation stop them having the £100. It was not good value for money for
retail space.
MR WALSH asked whether we could remind subpostmasters that they
could have it taken out because a lot thought they had to have it.
MR PEBERDY said yes it was voluntary and then went on to state that the
proposition was that it was merely noted the Post Office’s intention to pay
subpostmasters £100 per year was voluntary and was not mandatory.
(h) Redirection Service PC SP 01
MR PEBERDY reported that £1.27 had been achieved at the last meeting.
The Chairman of the Negotiating Committee formally moved his report and
this was accepted.
Al4 CONFERENCE MATTERS
The GENERAL SECRETARY reported as follows:-
(a) Nominations
Malcolm Roger's was the only nomination received for Editor.
Therefore there is no requirement for a ballot.
(b) I Supplementary Report of the Executive Council
(c) Motions
The motions had previously been circulated with
recommendations. THE GENERAL SECRETARY said that
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this debate must be in secret and must not be conveyed to
the Membership. He stressed that it was important that there
was as much information as possible from the Regional
Council Meetings. This information must not be divulged to
delegates. All the Motions were discussed and
recommendations made.
(d) Motions & Nominations received late.
There were no motions or nominations received late.
(e) Conference Agenda, Annual Accounts, Officers Reports.
The Annual Accounts had been previously circulated. There
was a possibility of one amendment, if agreed by the
Executive Council, and a recommendation to the Standing
Orders Committee that for this year only the Treasurer's
Report be taken first business on Tuesday morning at
Conference, in advance of the debate on Rules.
(fy Standing Orders Committee — Expenses
In line with the previous agreement in January for Conference
Delegates, no increase in Standing Orders Committee
Expenses was recommended. I
(g) Report on Conference Arrangements — Official Guests etc. I
Mr Stuart Sweetman, Group Managing Director, Customer
Banking Services, will address Conference on Monday I
morning. Mr John Main, Sales & Service General Manager {
(East) has also agreed to attend Conference. Mr Martin
Stanley, Chief Executive, Post Services Commission has
agreed to address delegates on Tuesday morning and The
Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, Stephen Byers, will
address Conference on Tuesday afternoon. Undoubtedly
there will be other attendees from the Post Office and
Postcomm but these will attend under their own steam and
not be official guests.
(h) Conference Reporting
It was recommended that Clive Oxley should professionally
produce the report, as last year. The cost last year was
£3,113.75 for the typing and £3,690 for the printing.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING - - MARCH 2001 Pace 21
(i) Conference Grants to Delegates. (Union Facilities:
It had been agreed at the January meeting of the Executive
Council that there would be no increase to the current rate
which is £135.
(()) Official Conference Observers
The Post Office had not yet formally notified us but it appears
that Mike Granville, Gwen Doswell and Chris Harker will be
acting as Official Conference Observers. There will, of
course, undoubtedly be others attending.
(k) Tellers
The information regarding tellers at Conference had been
received at Head Office.
(I) Vice President _- Order of Seniority
Mr Challinor was next in order of seniority.
(m) President's Testimonial
Last year the President's testimonial monies were increased
by RPI. It was agreed the same action be taken this year,
bringing the amount up to £500 and expenses to £1,500.
(n) Gift to President's Partner
The Gift to the President's partner was increased this year to
£165.00.
A/S SUB COMMITTEE REPORTS
A/5A) REPORT OF PUBLICITY & DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE
4. REPORT OF THE PREVIOUS MEETING.
The Report of the meeting held on 5th/6th March 2001 had been
previously circulated. Referring to the item 3 paragraph 4 of the
report, MR MARSHALL understood that the Trustees had been
upset by the item but thought the Committees should be able to work
more closely on things of this nature. He assured the meeting it had
not been the Committee's intention to cause friction and offered
apologies to the Chairman of the Trustees.
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¢
2(a)
2(b)
FEDERATION ANNUAL CONFERENCE. FM AC
Conference 2001, Llandudno — 14-16 May FM AC 2001
Detailed arrangements are currently being made with the
Conference Centre. The Committee had seen the draft proposed
stage set design and the details would be finalised during a visit to
Llandudno by MR MARSHALL and MRS DAVIS in April.
As a result of the concern expressed about last year's Conference
video, enquiries had been made about a second Camera. However,
the cost was prohibitive and the option had been dropped. The
Conference Centre would be briefed by MRS DAVIS in detail on
requirements.
Agreement had been reached with Zurich to sponsor the Tuesday
evening (£2,000) provided their logo can be projected at the back or
to the side of the stage. Zurich have been unhappy with the small
amount of business they have achieved with Federation members
and will also provide a seminar for Branch Secretaries during one of
the lunch breaks with a view to increasing interest.
The Co-op Bank have agreed to sponsor Conference's opening
reception to a value of £1,000.
Because of problems encountered last year, Benenden were not
prepared to print the Agenda this year, but have agreed to provide a
folder into which the Agenda will fit.
Annual Conference 2004. FM AC 2004
Details of the possibility of holding Conference 2004 in Torquay or
Plymouth were attached to the previously circulated P&D Report.
The various options available and the costs involved were discussed
in detail. Torquay was basically considered to be the best venue,
despite one or two conditions being attached to the provision of
facilities. It was recommended that The Grand Hotel at Torquay be
used as Headquarters Hotel. A vote was taken and it was decided
that Torquay should be the chosen venue for Annual Conference
2004. A second vote was taken on the matter of The Grand Hotel
being used for Headquarters and this was also agreed.
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3(a)
3(b)
MEMBERSHIP
Recruitment
Beverley Wright had been appointed as agent to carry out telephone
recruitment and advertising sales for one year's trial period, Miss
Wright's fee would be 22% of advertising sales.
The decision made by the Executive Council at the January meeting
to engage an employee to carry out telephone recruitment work was
discussed further. Mr Marshall reminded the Executive Council the
January meeting had decided to engage an employee to carry out
this work. It was believed this decision should be viewed long-term
and recruiting an employee would be the most cost effective option..
The possibility of Miss Wright being an applicant for the position was
discussed and it was generally felt that as she had now been
appointed the trial should not be pre-empted and that the situation
should be reviewed at the end of the trial.
MRS KENDALL observed that she did not recall anything declaring
the person had to work "in-house" at Evelyn House, only that the
work would come under the umbrella of the NFSP. The person
could possibly work from home as Beverley does now. MRS
KENDALL also felt that a decision on recruitment should not be left
until the end of the trial but that a review should be made earlier to
assess progress and the ongoing situation. It was decided that a
review would take place in January 2002. In the interim there would
be regular monitoring.
MR MILNER queried the proposed 22% pay rate and asked what the
previous rate was. It was confirmed by the GENERAL SECRETARY
that Marot's commission was 25%. Miss Wright had originally
suggested a charge of 20% but this was increased to 22% in the
light of the additional accounting work she would be doing for the
advertising instead of Philip Bloor who would take a supervisory role.
The Federation's income would be on a monthly basis from invoices
prepared by Miss Wright and sent out on the Federation's behalf on
headed paper. All monies would be paid direct to the Federation,
and Miss Wright's payment would be made from that income.
Advertisements will be checked month by month against the invoices
sent out. Miss Wright will also provide a monthly list of contacts she
has made on the recruitment side.
Membership Information & Systems
The structure of the new membership system had been
demonstrated to Kate Davis, Philip Bloor, Lisa Saunders and
Barbara Collier. There is a problem with the new data protection
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legislation and which is causing a great deal of concern. However,
MRS DAVIS is working on this issue. PONU are supportive and
recognise our need for this information but must comply with the
legislation. Without the required information it would not be possible
to administer the membership system. Every effort will be made to
surmount the problems and provide Branch Secretaries with the
information they need. A meeting had taken place the previous
Wednesday with Post Office Network to continue pursuing a way
forward that is workable for the Federation.
3(c) Training q
There is one workshop left on MRS DAVIS' Training Practice
Course. Most elements of the course are now completed. Some
work has been undertaken with the P&D Committee including the
planning and delivery of the first training course. The outputs of that
meeting were attached to the P&D report. Arrangements are under
way for the first training course in Wales with a group of Branch
Secretaries.
4. PUBLICATIONS FM PB
4(A) The Subpostmaster I
The Committee expressed concern about the amount of time spent I
by MRS DAVIS on organising and writing articles for the Journal. It 1
is recognised that the journal is our prime communication tool and its
use must be maximised, but the lack of resource available restricts
the ability to progress other P&D Committee work quickly.
MR PEBERDY expressed concerns that the Membership were
starting to speak negatively about the "The SubPostmaster". It is
being said that it's no fonger a smart piece of literature and I
subpostmasters are no longer reading it. Perhaps the format needs
alteration. A letter from Paul Webster, who carries out exhibition
work for the Federation, was circulated and it was suggested that
there must be an element of truth in what is being said. MR MILNER
said "The SubPostmaster" should reflect members views and the
letters to the Editor should be printed. MRS KENDALL felt that Mr
Webster should not be permitted to meddle in our business, and MR
CHALLINOR felt that Paul Webster was attempting to use our
journal to run his own business.
A long discussion took place about the balance of views and the
tone of articles which appear in “The SubPostmaster”. It was
generally believed that contrary views should be expressed, but the
general balance must be more even as it was felt that the wrong
message was getting across. Although the journal is the only vehicle
the members have to express their views it should be talking the
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Federation and the industry up. Not enough use is made of the i
journal to do this. People who have put money into their business i
and are seeing little or no return for that investment need to be oa
reassured, It was generally felt that we should not try to gag people
or the Editor and “The SubPostmaster” must portray a balanced I
view. I
MRS REEVES requested that the information be more balanced. It
was suggested that at the bottom of letters a note could advise
where in the journal the answer to a particular problem was printed.
MR MARSHALL pointed out that the Editor's job was extremely
demanding and never stops. Things are being left until the last
minute and the Editor is saying he has little to put in "The
SubPostmaster". Executive Officers should take it upon
themselves to write, and encourage others to write, articles for "The
SubPostmaster" to relieve the constant pressure on Tim Cobb's
Office and MRS DAVIS. MR ROGER said it was not possible for ¢
him do it all on his own. .
5. PROMOTION & PUBLICITY FM PR
5(a) Sub Post Office Exhibition 2001
A meeting had already taken place between MRS DAVIS, MR BUTT
and Paul Webster to begin planning for the 2001 exhibition. It was
believed important that the NFSP take a higher profile and earn
more money from the exhibition.
5(b) Pan Presentations Agreement
Due to changes in personnel both at the Federation and the
Solicitors, the agreement has not yet been completed. Changes
have been made and the agreement is currently with Paul Webster ¢
for his final agreement.
5(c) Caring for the Customer
A Bureau de Change poster was distributed in the March edition of
the Journal.
The Western Territory team, through Sue Chalk, had set up a liaison
process with the Federation Executive Officers to discuss ways of
improving sales support to all offices. Encouragement will also be
given to Sue Chalk's colleagues in the Northern and Eastern
territories to do likewise. The P&D Committee had agreed to invite
the heads of the three territories to meet to discuss ways in which
liaison meetings could be progressed further.
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6. UBLIC RELATIONS FM PR
Deputy Heads Group
A progress report had already been circulated attached to the back
of the P&D Report. Active involvement of Branch Secretaries will be
encouraged. It was planned to launch the project in the April edition
of "The SubPostmaster".
7. NESP RELIEF SUBPOSTMASTER SCHEME FM PR
Mr Marshall explained that a number of possible options for setting
up a Relief Scheme had been discussed at the P&D Meeting.
Explanatory correspondence had been attached to the P&D Report.
Provision of a list does not deal with the problems that led to looking
at the set-up of such a scheme, and is no more than is done already
by Branch Secretaries.
A booking service administered by Regional Council Secretaries was
not practical. There were potential downside risks. There was also
no resource to instigate a full time professional service based at I
Shoreham. I
It was considered by the Committee that a professional, well
administered scheme was required. Taking account of the resource
necessary and the potential liabilities it was believed practical to
consider a partnership with a commercial provider who would bear
most of the risks but which would need to make a commercial return
on the capital invested in setting up the scheme.
The Committee had discussed the scheme proposed by
Management Advisory. It was decided to re-open discussions with I
them, taking account of the concerns previously expressed by the I
Executive Council, to see if these concerns could be addressed. A {
meeting had taken place between MR MARSHALL, MRS DAVIS and
Peter Abrahams.
MRS DAVIS then reported on the outcome of that meeting, saying
that the concerns expressed by the Executive Council previously
were:
responsibility for training reliefs and cost
organising training & accreditation
vetting of reliefs
insurance protection
dishonest claims against the losses policy and its impact on the
Federation's reputation.
geographical location
e whether Peter Abrahams was looking to corner the market
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« whether it should be run commercially or whether we should run I
it free I
These points had been addressed in a letter circulated on Sunday. i
Details of the service were then given. Users of the service would
be initially supplied with a CV but no name of the relief. If a
subpostmaster was unable to book a relief the fee would be
returned. Insurance would be provided, giving cover for losses
which the subpostmaster contractually has to make good as a result
of employing the relief, should they arise. Management Advisory
would not be acting as an employment agency. Any payment made
to the relief would be between that relief and the subpostmaster, not
through Management Advisory. Management Advisory would vet
the reliefs using existing PON checks, before offering their services
to subpostmasters. In the first three years there will be no charge to
teliefs for joining the service, If the matter of making a charge .
should arise in the future, this would have to be agreed with the ¢
Federation.
The proposal to offer Horizon training will not now be offered as most
have already been trained and there is no longer a need for this.
Management Advisory would not corner the market but would
operate under normal commercial rules. They would not be taking
anything away from Branches which already offer this service.
In view of the investment he would have to make in the scheme,
Peter Abrahams is still looking to obtain a 3-year contract. If the
scheme is not up to standard the Federation would have the right to
pull out. The booking fee to subpostmasters would be £35 plus £5
per day. These fees would remain in situ for 3 years, There is no
financial risk to NFSP. The scheme would be confined to members
only. NFSP would receive 20% of the gross booking income. NFSP
would be responsible for selling the scheme through the journal and
providing exhibition space free of charge. The income from the
scheme would contribute towards NFSP costs.
von
It was estimated that over 3 years with 500 bookings of two weeks
each the gross income from the scheme would be £52,500.
Management Advisory costs would amount to approximately £30-
35,000. NFSP income would be about £10,500
On the basis that the Executive Council's concerns appeared to
have been addressed the P&D Committee recommended that the
Executive Council should reconsider the scheme as laid out in the
letter.
The proposed scheme was discussed at considerable length and in
great detail. Some Executive Officers spoke out strongly against the
scheme, or certain aspects of it, and some Executive Officers were
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING~ - MARCH 2001 Pace 28
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in favour of the scheme, believing that as an organisation we should
offer this service to our members. Deep concern was expressed by
a number of Officers about the insurance cover for losses. It was
believed that a Professional Indemnity insurance could not be
obtained because there are no accreditations or qualifications for
relief subpostmasters, It was pointed out that it would be almost
impossible to prove negligence or misconduct by a relief when
money was missing, and more information on the Insurance cover
was thought necessary although this scheme was no different to any
other with regard to the liability for missing monies.
The question as to why Peter Abrahams didn't 'go it alone’ and why
he wanted the NFSP involved was raised. The hidden cost to the
NFSP of providing exhibition space was raised, but this was said to
be provided for Management Advisory already for the Helpline and
did not constitute an increased expense to the Federation. A
number of Executive Officers felt that the Federation should not
make money out of a Subpostmaster's need for a holiday.
Nearly all the Executive Officers had a view on the scheme in i
general and after a great deal of discussion two proposals were put I
before the Executive Council. i
MR CHALLINOR proposed that the P&D Committee go back and
provide a paper on how other professional bodies deal with a relief
system, i.e. Doctors, Pharmacists etc. This was seconded and lost
on the vote.
A second proposal by MR BUTLIN that Peter Abrahams’ scheme be DECISION
accepted with the caveat that the Federation did not take 20% of the
fees and the insurance cover was qualified to the Executive
Council's satisfaction. A vote was taken and the result was 8 for and
8 against. The Chairman wished to remain with the status quo and
the motion was therefore lost.
7(b) Wail Planner
The wall planner will be distributed with the April edition of the
journal. Printing costs are reduced by approximately £1,000 and
should produce a net income of about £3,000.
7(c) Eederation Web Site
MR PEBERDY made a personal vote of thanks to Annabel Barnett [Decision]
for producing the Federation Web Site. [peaison]
8. 3-YEAR PLAN
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The P&D Committee had decided to develop an ongoing 3-year plan
to focus and prioritise its work. An initial plan has been constructed
as a basis for future discussion and development. .
9. FUTURE DATES AND VENUES OF EC MEETINGS I
June 4th & 5th 2001 Grimstock Country House Hotel. :
July 30th & 31st 2001 Grimstock Country House Hotel. I
Sept 24th & 25th 2001 Grimstock Country House Hotel. /
November 12th & 13th Grimstock Country House Hotel.
MR MARSHALL requested that the P&D Report be moved and this
was agreed.
A5(B) FEDERATION TRUSTEES REPORT.
MR WALSH reported that the Trustees had been updated by MRS
DAVIS with regard to the installation of the new membership system.
The basic structure of the system was now in place and had been
demonstrated to all those directly involved at Shoreham. The
account based functions are the furthest advanced as these are
necessary for communications with the Post Office systems and
BACS. In all, progress appears to be such that the Trustees can see
no reason why the expected completion date before Conference will
not be met. The Trustees intend to visit Shoreham before
Conference in order to see the system in operation.
mo
The Trustees do, however, have one large concern and that revolves
around the Data Protection Act with the data provided by Post Office
Network. Initially it may be restricted - this data may be only the
name and amount but this is subject to further negotiations and work
at Shoreham.
The latest advice from the Brokers, Laing & Cruikshank was ¢
discussed and it was agreed to follow the advice to sell a small stake
in Granada and add to the investment in Lloyds TSB, together with a
sum of £10,000 from the cash balance holding.
The Trustees confirmed their approval of the rolling programme of
improvements to the Shoreham computer systems, They are aware
that the "server" is in need of upgrade and this will be part of the
ongoing improvements.
As reasonable and responsible employers, it has been arranged to
call in Health & Safety experts to advise of the Federation's
responsibilities under Health & Safety Regulations for all working at
Shoreham. The Trustees are well aware that this may have cost
implications but the Federation cannot and should not avoid their
responsibilities under this legislation.
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As the Executive Council had decided to meet six times a year, the [DECISION]
Trustees considered and discussed the timing of their own meetings [pecision]
and agreed that quarterly meetings, in January, March, July and
November in tandem with the Executive Council meetings would be
sufficient for their needs.
MR WALSH concluded his address to the President and the
Executive Council by saying "Mr President, it has been a privilege
for me to have been Chairman of the Trustees and I would like to
thank my fellow Trustees for their support and input. 1! would also
like to thank all those from Shoreham for all they have done. Mr
Bradbrook has been a Trustee for some considerable time now and
members of this Federation have benefited from all your efforts, Sir.
I would like to thank you personally for all you have done. I wish our
successors total success and with that I move my Report".
It was agreed that the Trustees Report be moved.
A vote of thanks was given to MR WALSH, the Chairman of the [Decision]
Trustees, for all his hard work and for the huge contribution made by
MR BRADBROOK AND MR WALSH to the Trustees.
A5(C) BOARD OF BENEVOLENCE REPORT
MR PEBERDY reported that the Trustees to the Board of
Benevolence had met the previous Sunday evening when they i
considered the state of the Portfolio and the brokers advice thereon, I
The Trustees had decided to accept the brokers advice and this
would be documented in the minutes of that meeting. The {
arrangements were further approved at a meeting of the full Board of
Benevolence at the meeting on Monday night.
The Trustees had also considered the final accounts of the Board of
Benevolence which were ratified. Donations had increased the fund
by £130,000.
It was considered that the Trustees to the Board of Benevolence did
not pay fully for the services the Board receives from Shoreham, and
investigations will be made to consider an opportunity to move some
of the funds to assist the Federation fund. The Board does not pay
directly for the Secretary/Treasurer's services, or for Philip Bloor, nor
are the actual expenses of the Trustees and Board of Benevolence
members attending the meetings recouped from the Board. These
charges are legitimate and these will be looked into.
Cases were considered and an amount of £4,953.00 en bloc had
been agreed, together with grants totalling £2,231,
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING - - MARCH 2001 Pace 31
AG
It had also considered what should be done with the Safetel
Telecash Dispenser given by Brian Ingham. MR MILNER had been
asked to find out what Mr Ingham's wishes were in this respect.
The Trustees to the Board of Benevolence had also had the pleasant
but unpleasant duty to say goodbye to one of their members, MR
HUGH MORGAN JONES who has served the Committee as a
Trustee and has visited many cases of their behalf in the North
West. The Trustees to the Board of Benevolence placed on record
their grateful thanks. The Executive Council echoed this and wished
MR MORGAN JONES all the very best for the future.
Since the new format for the Executive Council meeting of six times
a year was decided, the Trustees to the Board of Benevolence had
to decide whether they too wished to meet with the same frequency.
The rules currently say that the Trustees will meet at each Executive
Council meeting. After a discussion it was decided that the Trustees
would meet quarterly in January, March, July and November in
tandem with the relevant Executive Council Meetings. The
appropriate changes to the Rules would be put to Conference in
May.
There being nothing further to report, MR PEBERDY moved the
report of the Trustees to the Board or Benevolence.
SPECIAL MATTERS
AG(A) FINANCE
Treasurer's Report FIAC 02
The Treasurers Report and the Annual Accounts had been
previously circulated. MR JANNETTA wished to make some
comments on the Accounts. The £72,000 bad debt related to Marot.
The amount had grown from £66,000 to £72,000 this year. Total
balance sheet loss was £91,559.00 but more had been expected.
Projections for next year indicate a minimum loss of £100/130,000
which led back to MR JANNETTA's suggestion in January of
increasing Subscriptions. In addition, MR JANNETTA suggested
asking Conference to approve a reduction in branch per capita
funding. Multiple tier subscriptions had been considered and
rejected on the grounds that there were not enough members in the
higher rate bracket to offset the numbers in the lower ranges, The
proposal suggested in January was that the lower rate subscription
be increased by £5.00 to £33.24, and the higher rate increased by
£15.00 to £115.44. It was also now proposed that the branch per
capital be reduced from 30% to 25% which will put £50,000 back into
central funds. A further proposal to be placed before Conference
was an increase from £3.40 to £4.10 for Branch Secretary time
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oN
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spend away from the Counter and an increase of the telephone grant
to the branches from 60p to 75p per member. These adjustments
will result in the Federation being approximately £30,000 better off.
After a good deal of discussion it was agreed that the increase in
subscriptions would be placed before Conference. It was also
agreed that the reduction in branch per capita, from 30% to 25%, be
laid before Conference.
Dependent on the result of Conference votes going in favour of DECISION
these previous proposals, it was agreed that the Branch Secretaries’
fate be increased from £3.40 to £4.10 and the branch telephone
allowance be increased from 60p to 75p per member. These
increases would be announced when moving the motion at
Conference.
Following these decisions, THE GENERAL SECRETARY pointed
out that should any branch find themselves short of money they have
the facility to apply to Head Office for a top-up.
MR JANNETTA continued his report by saying the remainder of his
report was domestic.
The substitution rate for Executive Officers had not been increased
for some time and he believed this should be looked at. Following
his examination he intended to take his findings to the General
Purposes Committee for approval.
Accommodation at Conference for partners would be charged at
£45, the same as last year. This amount included dinner, bed and
breakfast.
MR JANNETTA's thanks were extended to MR BRADBROOK and
MR WALSH, They had been of great assistance to him during his
time as Treasurer and he wished them both well for the future.
There being no further Treasurer's business to report, MR [Decision]
JANNETTA requested his report be moved.
A6(B) JOURNAL
Editor's Report FM PB 01
The Editors report had been circulated previously.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY had circulated a letter dated 14th
March from Paul Webster which was self-explanatory and contained
a number of adverse comments about the Editor and the content of
the Subpostmaster. MR ROGER expressed surprise and
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disappointment that he had not had previous knowledge of the letter
and been given time to respond to the remarks. General discussion
ensued during which the comments of negativity from Mr Webster .
were examined. MR ROGER said he had been proportionately
representing readers’ letters and there had been a large amount of
worried correspondence. He expressed a strong wish to receive
more positive letters from members and was always looking for more
positive news to report. MR ROGER said that he does not always
get information he requests and he would like to see the General
Secretary's "Above the Line" reinstated. MR ROGER continued by
saying he realised that he relied heavily on TIM COBB and MRS
DAVIS for contributions. He offered his sincere thanks to the
GENERAL SECRETARY and the staff at Shoreham for their support.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY said that a high proportion of the
items in the Subpostmaster had been from MRS DAVIS and
ANNABEL BARNETT and appealed on the Editor's behalf for some
assistance with articles and news for inclusion in the Journal.
MRS KENDALL asked what the remit for the job of Editor was. Was
it part of the job description that they do articles and research for the
paper, or was it their job to edit? THE GENERAL SECRETARY said
that the Editor should not be made to feel pilloried. A problem was
being discussed and all the Executive Council should share it. As
the workload is rising he suggested it might be an idea to have an
executive editor with P&D sourcing.
After a great deal more discussion covering various aspects of "The
SubPostmaster", where there may be room for improvement, it was
proposed and seconded that the matter be remitted to the P&D
Committee to explore the production, format and editorship of the
journal in total, with the Editor on board. This proposal was carried.
The Editor's report was moved and accepted.
AG(C) DISSOLUTION OF A BRANCH C
MR MARSHALL informed the Executive Council that Barnstaple DECISION
Branch wished to be dissolved. MR BUTLIN had put in a great deal
of work and the Branch cannot be kept going any longer. MRS
KENDALL asked if there was cover for the remaining 91 members
and was assured they would be jeining other branches. — In
accordance with Rule V(n) the Executive Council was requested to
agree that the Barnstaple Branch be dissolved. Agreement was
confirmed.
MR WALSH had received a letter requesting the dissolution of
Crawley Branch and Executive Council agreement to this was also
confirmed.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING- - MARCH 2001 Pace 34
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A7 CONFERENCE RESOLUTIONS PRIOR 2001.
No Report.
A8 CONFERENCE RESOLUTIONS 2000.
No Report.
A9. MOTIONS TO THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL.
AQ(a) Motion to the Executive Council for March Meeting. FM OG 02
The documents supporting MR WALSH's motion had already been
circulated. MR WALSH said he believed the Federation used the
wrong premise to represent members. He had prepared the papers
based on an Executive Council representation of 19 members. He
proceeded to indicate how he believed the branches and regions I
should be allocated, each geographically split. MR PEBERDY I
congratulated MR WALSH on the thought behind the work and its I
presentation. However, MR PEBERDY pointed out that the network
was about to move from interim to permanent territorial boundaries
and PON were looking at the total structure which will reduce some '
of these numbers. Also Security Division has gone to what is
perceived as final boundaries and this had brought problems
because they do not want to talk to the Federation. He agreed we
had a basis for discussion which needs to come forward from a time
when Post Office Ltd comes into place and decisions are made on
how many Horns there are and which way that retail line is going to
go. The Federation's representation is more with the retail line and if
that carves our branches in half then we will have jumped ahead of
the structure and may leave people without representation rights.
MRS JENKINS asked whether there would be a reduction in
numbers or whether the boundaries would change. MR PEBERDY
responded by advising that they do not yet know this. PON are
currently making out job specifications. MR MORGAN-JONES said
he understood the possibility of a reduction in numbers, but the
difficulty with PON is that they will not listen to Executive Officers I
from out of their area. I
MR WALSH indicated that he just wanted to establish the principle of
an association of branches and the geographical location of
branches bearing in mind with the new retail line it is more likely that
more offices will never see an RNM and will need more help than
ever from the Federation.
MR BUTLIN added his congratulations to MR WALSH for his
presentation which he believed was a good idea for the future, but
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING~ - MARCH 2001 Pace 35
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asked how Branches were to be convinced when they believed their
Region was sacrosanct. MRS KENDALL added her congratulations
to MR WALSH for his excellent work. MRS KENDALL proposed that .
this matter, including all MR WALSH's work be remitted to the P&D
and they come back to the Executive Council in the not too distant
future with proposals to the Council which hopefully can be taken to
next year's Conference. This proposal was seconded
MR PEBERDY pointed out that MR DAVIS had been committed to
work on the Federation's representation and that this should be
encompassed with the work he was doing so that the whole thing
joined up. MR DAVIS said that the work he was doing was being set
up on the current representation and on the current boundaries. MR
DAVIS envisaged his work runs on slightly different lines. MRS
KENDALL pointed out that the matter MR DAVIS had been working
on was the representation of the Federation externally with the Post ¢
Office, but this is all about how the Federation best serves it's
members internally. She felt that while there is a flow-through, she
did not see the two aspects impacting.
MRS KENDALL repeated her proposal that part of the plan for the DECISION
P&D deal with the NFSP organisational structure as a top priority
and come back with presentations to this Executive Council with a
view to putting recommendations before Conference in the year
2002. This had already been seconded and the vote taken was in
favour.
MR WALSH reminded the Chairman that Rule 7(c) was to be DECISION
changed at this Conference and nothing had come forward. MR
DAVIS explained the application of the rule. MR PEBERDY recalled
that we would make it clear. The rule didn't state that the application
of Rule 7(c) does not apply at the triennial election period. A phrase
should be included which made it clear that the reduction is not [pacisidh,
applied at the Conference next, because at a triennial election
everyone stands down. Something needed be written into the rule
which said "except at triennial election period". MRS KENDALL
suggested that the part of the rule which required adjustment is the
part that talked about "the annual conference after" because this rule
slipped the net when the Federation went from annual elections to
triennial. Various suggestions were made for alterations to the rule
and it was proposed that THE GENERAL SECRETARY, on behalf of
the Council, be authorised to take this matter away, examine it and
make the proper necessary amendment to ensure that the rule
clearly states what it actually means. A copy of the final version will I
be faxed to each Executive Council member. This course of action I
was seconded and agreed. I
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING - - MARCH 2001 PAGE 36
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A10 DEPARTMENTAL CORRESPONDENCE
A10(A) FOR DISCUSSION
1. SECURE STOCK SERVICES PC NW 09 06
There was nothing to add to the minutes of the last meeting with
Hemel Hempstead, which had been circulated previously.
2. COUNTERFEIT NOTES PC NW 12
Nothing further to add to correspondence already circulated.
3. SUBPOSTMASTERS' CONTRACT PC SC
(a) Christmas & New Year Arrangements. PC SC 05 I
A recent circulation has a copy of the Review of
Arrangements for the year just past. The report contained
comments passed to MR DAVIS by the Executive Council.
This review will form the basis for next year's arrangements.
They are very much aware that last year they did not talk to
the Federation about the arrangements before they published
them. It is MR DAVIS' intention to ensure we have an
opportunity to comment on any proposals they may have
before they publish them.
(b) Sick Absence Substitution Allowance. PC SC 16
The previously circulated letter is confirmation of the recently [Action ]
announced change in relation to male and female and the
application of the rules. The allowance paid is now available
to both men and women aged 69 and under. MRS KENDALL
asked if it was intended to reply to this letter as she believed I
that the criteria on retrospective payment is unreasonable. I
MR DAVIS said he was quite happy to go back on that point.
(c) Assistants in Subpostmaster Employment
P356 Exercise. PC SC 20
The response rate on last year's exercise was 60%. The cost
of chasing the missing ones and following up requests for
information was quite substantial. It was doubtful whether the
information produced was worth the cost. Will probably not
carry out a similar exercise this year. MR PEBERDY asked
whether the Data Protection Act would be contravened. MR
DAVIS responded that all Post Office employees have to sign
the Official Secrets Act, but that he would ask the Post Office
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING - - MARCH 2001 Pace 37
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about Data Protection. MR WALSH suggested some details
of the letter be published in the journal to highlight the fact
that Subpostmasters should notify PONU of any assistants
they employ, including holiday reliefs, and that assistants
have to be registered to conform to the requirements of the
compensation scheme.
4. SUBPOSTMASTERS' PAY PC SP
(a) Telephone Allowance PC SP 02 06
The Contract still includes unit bandings for determining which
of the telephone call allowance each office is entitled to. The
letter of the 7th February replaces that arrangement with a
cash equivalent. This does not change entitlements, it's just a
tidying up exercise which is more relevant to today. (
(b) Small Office Payments 2000/2001.
This was discussed under A3. The circulation under A10(B)
is simply a letter saying that the exercise will be carried out
this year and sets out how it will be done. The Post Office
have subsequently decided to take out the Telephone Cali
Allowance and Substitution Allowance and also to calculate
on a monthly basis rather than Subpostmasters waiting a year
to find out what they would get.
A10(B) FOR INFORMATION
MR PEBERDY requested a copy of the Sales, Service and Retail
Line Trial Research which he felt might be very useful.
MRS REEVES asked how many offices fell into the "larger" offices ION
under Secure Stock —- Easter & May Bank Holiday. MR DAVIS
believed there were about 2,000 but he would find out and advise.
iw]
z] iB ;
Ale
The reports under A10(B) were accepted. ISION
Ai1 REPORT ON CENTRAL APPEALS
No report.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING - - MARCH 2001 Pace 38
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A12 GENERAL SECRETARY'S REPORT
(a) Mrs Bain FM LW 04
Mrs Bain's cheque has now been paid.
(b) Clifford Chance FM LW 04
(ce) MrHayward PC HR 02
The Clifford Chance Report had recently been circulated and
contains the information requested. This is linked to the
Hayward decision as well as the Bain decision. Clifford
Chance is flagging up once again the dangers involved in
pursuing cases of this nature in a fragmented way. As before,
this report is strictly confidential.
MR ROGER asked if Mr Hayward planned to appeal. THE
GENERAL SECRETARY responded that it was not known for
certain but almost certainly he would.
It was proposed and seconded that the Clifford Chance DECISION
Report continue to be kept strictly confidential. New I
Executive Officers will be bound by the rules if they request ACTION ;
any past Executive Council papers. This decision would be I
conveyed by the President to the two members who had I
already left the meeting.
(d) Consultation Arrangement PO PC 03
It was suggested that the Federation now go back to the Post
Office and agree to go ahead with the Consultation
arrangement, carrying the caveat that it be reviewed later if
necessary.
MRS KENDALL referred to Appendix C- Branch Secretaries.
One of the problems in the Retail Line Review areas is that
the Branch Secretaries wanting to take up individual
members, don't have RNM's, only a business support centre
which is almost impossible to get through to. As result they
are referred to the NFSP Executive Officer and will cause a
major problem. Also, Branch Secretaries feel they do not
have a role. This must be clarified and sorted out and MRS
KENDALL asked what the Executive Council's intention is in
this respect. MR DAVIS replied that we have the option to roll
this out. In accepting totally MRS KENDALL'S point, he
indicated that national consultative arrangements are not
matched to a trial. This is a major problem as approximately
two-thirds of the offices in the trial areas do not have RNMs.
The Negotiating Committee has asked Bruce McNiven to
EXECUTIVE COUNGIL MEETING - - MARCH 2001 Pace 39
A/13
provide a report on the present situation. We must continue
to pursue this issue with The Post Office but believe this
should still be rolled out with the caveat that the Retail Line
Trial must be discussed in detail.
MR WALSH commented that nobody seemed happy with the
way the reporting of incidents is currently dealt with. People
do not end up with the right information at the right time. He
asked if that had been taken into account. MRS KENDALL
also said there did not appear to be anything on the ground to
cover any security forum at all. MRS KENDALL asked if this
was a separate body the Federation were talking to.
Executive Officers are currently in Security Forums and this
report does not alter that and the arrangement should
continue. MR DAVIS assured MRS KENDALL that national
meetings were still taking place but he would cover this point
in his response to the Report.
THE GENERAL SECRETARY was still awaiting the Foot & Mouth
information. He asked Executive Officers to let him know in writing if
and how they are affected by the outbreak.
NFSP TRADING LIMITED
THE GENERAL SECRETARY spoke on behalf of Nadeem Butt and
showed a brief selection of slides demonstrating the work that had
been done. A sample of the new branding was passed round.
Counters Club is on schedule for a July launch.
The Trading Company accounts will be reinstated and monies
received would be placed in the Trading Account. The Post Office
will bear the bad debt. The Federation can legally get out of the
Contracts with Parcel Force and Universal.
There is a myriad of e-companies with whom MR BUTT is liaising. A
great deal of business is expected from them but they have to be
carefully vetted.
Total Income projections for Counters Club are:
£120,000 Current year
£245,000 _—‘ This year
£320,000 Year 2001/2002
£365,000 Year 2002/2003
£421,000 Year 2003/2004
£503,000 Year 2004/2005
MR BUTT is confident that these figures are achievable.
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING - - MARCH 2001 Pace 40
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The Postshop brand is to be retained, but we have to get out of the
contract. MR MILNER asked whether Counters Club was tied solely
to P&H. He was advised that P&H have the products and services
we want and this was a good strong deal. No others come close.
AM4 EXECUTIVE OFFICERS' REPORTS
No Report
Al15 MATTERS RECEIVED TOO LATE FOR INCLUSION ON AGENDA
No Report
AN6 ANY OTHER BUSINESS
MRS KENDALL broached the subject of NIPOC wanting to bring to the
attention of the Executive Council the difficulties members have
experienced concerning the letters from the Contributions Agency to
Subpostmasters regarding refunds etc., and about applications for SERPS.
The Post Office have gone to the Contributions Agency applying for non-
staff costs back to 1993/94. Because they have gone back 7 years,
Contributions Agency are not going to refund the Post Office for the first
year. Some offices have slipped through the net. The Post Office have
broken a National Agreement whereby a number of Subpostmasters were
not in the scheme. They have surreptitiously re-included these
Subpostmasters. This is retrospectively reducing some Subpostmasters
pensions. The Contributions Agency have had a lot of letters from
Subpostmasters about it and although they are sorting it out some have I
slipped through. If this continues, MRS KENDALL suggested that the {
Federation go back to the Post Office, re-open the agreement and get
some of the money back, She stressed that the Federation should make
sure that no Subpostmaster's pension is seriously affected at this stage.
MALCOLM ROGER queried whether Stephen Byers’ address was under
Chatham House Rules and whether any of the information could be
disclosed. THE GENERAL SECRETARY suggested use of Tim Cobb's
press release only.
MR PEBERDY drew attention to the brochure from First Call Direct which
he thought was disgusting. They have been told they have misrepresented
the situation and that it has not done them any good. They have tried to be
too smart too soon.
As the meeting was drawing to a close, MR MORGAN-JONES rose to pay
tribute to MR BRADBROOK as follows:-
EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING ~ - MARCH 2001 Pace 41 /
"Yes Mr President, it looks as if we've got to the end of a long day and the
end of a long Executive Council meeting. There we have in the chair,
NORMAN BRADBROOK. Norman has done many years of service in
London and on this Executive Council. He's a wit. From what! hear he's a
bit of a raconteur, but more than that he’s a listener and I am sure people
round this table have had conversations with Norman and he's listened. At
this meeting, which has been tedious and it's been rocky, but at the end, as
always, it has been positive and that's something that only he can control.
When the Secretary of State was here, I think he acted with calm and
dignity. Norman certainly took the proceedings away from himself in some
respects offering him to have the chair and on occasions he would ask who
wanted to speak but, that's Norman isn't it. Over all, I think, we are looking
at a man with a sense of magnificent humour, giving everybody a fair
chance of speaking, particularly at this meeting.
“It's our last Executive Council meeting. There is sadness and happiness.
But like me Sir, your involvement in the Federation will not finish at the end
of Conference, I am sure of that. Thank you on behalf of the Executive
Council for all you have done and particularly for this meeting." A round of
applause followed.
MR WALSH also addressed MR BRADBROOK (tongue in cheek), “I've
had a splendid time. You've made things great. As soon as we got you
away from this end of the table, Sir, it was an absolute pleasure." More
seriously. "I've thoroughly enjoyed my time on the Executive Council. It's
been a treat. It's opened my eyes and it's been a privilege to be with you
all. Thank you very much indeed”.
MR MORGAN-JONES followed by saying “As / said, we are both at the end
of a line. There are five of us going and only two to replace us. I hope
everything goes fine for you. In the thirteen years that I've been round the
table — some of you, not all of you, it's been a great pleasure to be here.
I've felt that the time I've spent has been valuable so far as I am concerned
because I have learned an awful lot and those who follow me will learn
even more because they are going to have a hell of a lot more to do. The
network reinvention is probably the biggest thing that's going to happen
since the Post Office began and it's encumbent, as !I said last night, for
everybody fo pull together and work together. I hope that while I've been
round the table I have done something to help them. If I have, I have, and if
I havent I haven't. if 1 have it's because I wanted to and because I could,
and if I haven't its because I didn't want to or I couldn't. So on the basis
that I have sat around the table for 13 years, I hope you can bear with that
fact, live with it forever, and I promise you that the Federation will still be in
my mind even after Conference, as I have said. Thank you."
MR MARSHALL made his farewells by saying “/'m like Hugh, {I'm saying the
same sort of thing. I've had a very enjoyable time with the Executive
Council and indeed the years before that when I was Editor and also a
member of this Council, and I wish you alf the very best for the future.
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You've got a tough future ahead. I think I said this last night. It is going to
be tough, I feel, but I'm one of those guys that feel at the end of the tunnel
you have a good future ahead of you. Once it's all sorted and it's all tucked
away under the table, I think it's going to happen and you'll have a really
good network, You're the people that make it happen. This is what it's all
about, so I wish you all the best, all good luck and, in particular, once again,
! would just like to thank the P&D. An excellent crew. We've done a lot of
work and it's been good fun working together and there's lan and there's
Mike, Trish, John and Kate. Thank you all very much for your help and
assistance and all the best for the future."
MR FINLAY was then invited to speak. He responded by saying "Mr
President. I have been on the Executive Council for just 9 months. I was
just starting to come out, just starting to develop the confidence to talk at
the Executive Council. Although I have had the experience elsewhere, it
has been a learning curve for me and a humbling experience in many
respects. I always said when it was asked of me to come on the Executive I
Council that I would take time to settle in. I feel that time was starting to !
come to fruition, but circumstance as it is I know that there are better
people to come to do the job. However, I reiterate everything that has been
said, The cameraderie and friendship I have gained in these few months
have been wonderful. I do pledge my support to the Federation. I have
deliberately retained my association with the Regional Secretary's job for
the simple reason I knew that I wouldn't be here all that long and I will be
back at the other side of the fence in 12 months time. Thank you."
MR BRADBROOK then closed the meeting by saying "Well, thank you all,
very much, National President - it's a job that I wanted to do. I didn't think
I could do. In fact I was quite willing to get off that platform before it all
happened. So having seen it through as far as this, yes I am very proud,
and very proud to wear this (Presidential chain). The amount of respect it
had throughout the country I think it was fantastic, and really I think we
doubt ourselves far too much because most people are standing behind the
Federation all the time. But it's only due to the work you do in the Regions,
so you should be congratulated for that.
Thank you very much to the Secretariat. The number of times I ring up
every day, especially to Diana asking questions. Nobody has sort of said —
“no thank you, pass him off". We've had some good fun, but on the serious
side, I've enjoyed it. I came on to get rid of the introductory fee, because
that was a thorn in my side and I though John would come over this table
many times, and when I first came to this Council I stood up, out of order,
and gave him a sianging match I thought he would never forget. But he
forgave me afterwards and he said "you're here to fight for your members
and you're doing the right thing" and I think that's what you've ail got fo do.
You've got to come here, air your views no matter what, and get it off your
chest and not just go with the whole crowd. Anyway, thank you very much
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for having me as your President. I've enjoyed it very much and thank you
for your support, Thankyou. I
There being no further business, the meeting was declared closed.
DIANA DENTON
MARIAN JONES
MARCH 2001
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