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Message
To: Jarnail A Singh! if
cc: Andy Cash [/O=CARTWRIGHT KING/OU: XCHANGE ADMINISTRATIVE GROUP
(FYDIBOHF23SPDLT)/CN=RECIPIENTS/CN=Andy Casha65]
Subject: RE: Horizon (Wylie 21392)
Jarnail,
I would have preferred someone entirely independant but this is such a specialist area that we would
be hard pushed to get a report in the timescale that we require - we might open our expert up to
allegations of partiality but his expertise will be unlikely to be challenged.
We need to get this report off the skids as soon as possible as we have PCMHs and trials galloping up
on us.
You should have my advice of July but should you want further input as to general content please get
in touch
Harry
From: Jarnail A Singh [mailto;
Sent: 12 September 2012 15: 36
To: Andy Cash
Cc: Hugh Flemington; Andrew Bolc; martin smith; Harry Bowyer
Subject: RE: Horizon
Andy
Thinking about choice of expert in this case. I have in the past instructed Gareth Jenkins of Fujitsu in the case of
Misra which incidental was the only challenge on Horizon ,he provided expertise in dealing with defences bound less
enquiry into the whole Horizon system. Perhaps we need to reconsider whether to instruct him as he may be viewed too
close to the system but instruct.
Somebody entirely independent? Your thoughts please and also whether you or Harry have anybody in mind.
Thank you.
Jarnail
From: Andy Cash [mailto:;
Sent: 12 September 2012 08:38
To: Jarnail A Singh
Cc: Hugh Flemington; Andrew Bolc; martin smith; Harry Bowyer
Subject: RE: Horizon
Jarnail,
Harry advises that the report, provided it is comprehensive, is what is needed and we now need the
experts report on it as soon as practcable in view of the current cases timetables.
Please let me know what timescale is expected when you ascertain it
Andy
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From: Jarnail A Singh [mailto
Sent: 11 September 2012 13:38
To: Andy Cash; Andrew Bolc
Cc: Hugh Flemington
Subject: FW: Horizon
Andy/Andrew
Please see Helen Rose disclosures final draft report on her analysis of Horizon cases.
lfook forward to receiving your comments before forwarding the data for an expert report.
Regards
jarnail
From: Helen Rose
Sent: 07 September 2012 12:11
To: Jarnail A Singh
Cc: Andy Hayward
Subject: FW: Horizon
Hi Jarnail
Could you confirm for me that you would like this report sending out please. I will continue to build on the spreadsheet as
cases arise and keep you updated with this piece of ongoing work.
regards
Helen Rose
Security Team
Sent: 31 August 2012 10:35
To: Jarnail A Singh
Subject: RE: Horizon
Morning Jarnail
I have included a bit more information in the report regarding what has been requested by the defence. (or what I am
understanding what has been requested). Generally it tends to be training procedures and operating processes around
where ever the loss was challenged. Misra appears to be the only one that has challenged the more technical areas with
fujitsu, which was covered by Gareth Jenkins at the trial. Some of the challenges are requesting information on previous
challenges but these seem to be a general request rather than anything consistent.
regards
Helen Rose
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From: Jarnail A Singh
Sent: 28 August 2012 14:06
To: Helen Rose
Subject: RE: Horizon
Thanks Helen. if you have come across defence expert reports and defence statements requesting operating data of
Horizon you should include this as part of the enclosures in your report.
Regards
Jarnail
From: Helen Rose
Sent: 28 August 2012 12:13
To: Jarnail A Singh
Subject: FW: Horizon
Hi Jarnail
Could you please confirm if you are happy with this document and I will circulate to my line manger, Dave Pardoe, Andy
Hayward and John Scott.
I will continue to monitor / update the working spreadsheet and this can be amended accordingly as we build up our
information.
Many thanks.
regards
Helen Rose
Security Team
Mobilef,
From: Helen Rose
Sent: 22 August 2012 10:08
To: Jarnail A Singh
Subject: RE: Horizon
Thanks Jarnail
I have now included an updated draft (v2) which both includes a section on defence requests and the working
spreadsheet.
Moving forward this should be easier to complete in more detail as I will now (hopefully) be aware of cases as they are
happening and have more understanding of the requests being made.
I have also been able to locate the Jo Hamilton case (back in 2005) and this is now included on the working spreadsheet.
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regards
Helen Rose
Security Team
‘GRO
From: Jarnail A Singh
Sent: 22 August 2012 09:19
To: Helen Rose
Subject: RE: Horizon
Thanks Helen both would be useful with detail note capture this is vital.
Jarnail
From: Helen Rose
Sent: 22 August 2012 08:16
To: Jarnail A Singh
Subject: RE: Horizon
Jarnail
Looking at the data I have access to, the main challenge as you know was the Misra case. The others seem to
be asking general questions around specific areas of the individual cases. i.e. if the loss has been hidden in
cheques then they want to know the process of cheques entering on horizon, despatching, accounting for etc. if
the loss was in remittances then details are asked around this process. Newsome (Dhale) wanted full disclosure
on previous cases where there was criticism of the horizon system but this wasn’t challenged at a trial. Training
issues appear to be mentioned regular.
I would summarise that the main questions in this area are: - training, accounting procedures, request for fujitsu
logs. But usually the claim is “it’s the horizon system” with nothing specific being pointed at and previous
cases are usually mentioned.
So I would agree that “the defence solicitors are making similar disclosure requests meaning disclosure requests
made in the past is what likely requests will be in the future”.
Do you want me to include a paragraph like this in the report or would it be of more use including another
column in the working sheet to list things requested by defence?
regards
Helen Rose
Se
curity Team
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From: Jarnail A Singh
Sent: 21 August 2012 10:33
To: Helen Rose
Subject: Horizon
Helen
I refer you to my email 26" July as follows;
“Also We are particularly interested in defence expert reports, any defence statements requesting operating data for
Horizon ,are defence solicitors making similar disclosure requests meaning disclosure requests made in the past is what
is likely requests in the future”.
Are you able to make comment on this.
Regards
Jarnail
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