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Message
From: Ron Warmington [7 7}
Sent: 23,
To: rjw' -Bogerd' [ 7); ‘Belinda Crowe!
Cc ‘Chris Holyoak'
ce: mediationé inistrative
Group/cn=Recipients/cn=ap6]; ‘David Oliver’ 4
Subject: RE: Second Sight Briefing Report - Part Two
Attachments: M075_one_sided_txn_example.pdf
M075 provides an example of a customer benefitting from a one-sided
transaction... noticing that benefit... and repaying it to POL. In this instance, the
benefitting customer was also the SPMR so would only have benefitted at her own
expense thus having no incentive to keep quiet. Nonetheless, it serves as an
example of the phenomenon.
As you may recall, in this example the SPMR asked a clerk to pay £300 in for her
and she was credited with that amount three times over. POL initiated one
reversal, but the SPMR herself, as we understand it, had to action the other
reversals in order to correct the position.
Our point all along has been that, when a customer gets nothing for something
(e.g. if he/she pays a Utility bill and gets debited with the cost of doing that, but
the bill doesn't get paid, then there exists a very effective secondary error
detection control (they'll get a Final Demand from the Utility Company). There is,
on the other hand, no such secondary error detection control in the case of one-
sided transactions that benefit customers (the bill gets paid but they don't pick
up the cost: the SPMR does).
Do you need more examples?
Regards, Ron.
From: Ron Warmington [mailto:.
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014
To: ‘Angela Van-Den-Bogerd'; ‘Belinda Crowe’; ‘Chris Holyoak'
iati ~~ ‘Parsons, Andrew’; 'David Oliveri:
ht Briefing Report - Part Two.
OK, I understand. We'll provide examples.
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GRO
From: Angela Van-Den-Bogerd [mailto:
Seni Tuesday, July 22, 2014 3:45 PM
la Crowe; ‘Chris Holyoak"
‘Parsons, Andrew’; David Oliver!}
iefing Report - Part Two
I can respond to question I 'One-sided' transactions (Could they have led to customers getting something for nothing at
the Subpostmaster's expense?) in generic terms ie how the system is designed to operate which is I suggest more of a
Part one response however I understood your Part 2 to reflect specific detail of cases already investigated by you and
therefore your “thematic issues” would be evidenced based.
In relation to M014 I have responded to the assertion of a “one-sided transaction.” The reason I have not responded to
question I in my earlier response is because this question is not relevant to M014.
Iam more than happy to respond to your question I in relation to a case/cases where this is an issue. I don’t recall that we
have submitted any such cases to you at present but if I am mistaken please advise and I will draft a response in relation to
that case.
Best regards,
Angela
Angela Van Den Bogerd I Head of Partnerships
148 Old Street, LONDON, EC1V 9HQ
Post Office stories
postofficenews
©GBOOS®
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From: Ron Warmington [mailto:
Sent: 22 July 2014 14:37
To: Belinda Crowe; ‘Chris Holyoak’
arsons, Andrew’; David Oliver
Subject: RE: Second Sight Briefing Report - Part Two
Angela Van-Den-Bogerd
Yes Belinda, Angela did respond but the key question remains unanswered.
From: Belinda Crowe [mailtoy
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:59 PM
To: Chris Holyoak
Parsons, Andrew
David Oliver: Angela Van-Den-
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Bogerd; Belinda Crowe
Subject: RE: Second Sight Briefing Report - Part Two
Chris,
With many apologies, my email below contains an error — Angela has already responded to Ron in relation to Question
al
Best wishes
Belinda
Belinda Crowe
148 Old Street, LONDON, EC1V 9HQ.
i Postling_
From: Belinda Crowe
Sent: 22 July 2014 13:52
To: ‘Chris Holyoak'
Cc
Bogerd; Belinda Crowe
Subject: RE: Second Sight Briefing Report - Part Two
Parsons, Andrew! "} David Oliver; Angela Van-Den-
Thanks Chris
I have just completed the minutes of last week’s call (1 was out of the office at the end of last week). I note the date in
the minutes shows 27 July for the Part 2 report. I suggest I leave it to you to update the Working Group of the delivery
date.
In relation to the 3 outstanding questions:
Answers to 1 and 3 are being finalised and should be with you tomorrow.
In relation to 2. Angela and Andy are not aware of any outstanding questions relating to ATMs. I have copied them in
and perhaps you can let them have the question so that they can respond.
As to your final point, I think we will have to take great care on version control and it may be worth you setting out for
the Working Group how that will work in practice. I assume that the Working Group will want to be sighted on any
changes, and for clarity as far as I am concerned with my secretariat hat on, I will need to be clear, if the document is
being regularly updated, which version is being sent to the applicants when we issue the draft CRR. If I have
misunderstood what you are saying, please let me know.
Best wishes
Belinda
Belinda Crowe
148 Old Street, LONDON, EC1V 9HQ
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From: Chris Holyoak [mailto:
Sent: 22 July 2014 13:23
To: Beli é
Subject: Second Sight Briefing Report - Part Two
Belinda,
In advance of Thursday's call and given the email traffic about Part Two of Second Sight's Briefing Report, I thought that
it might be useful to confirm our understanding and anticipated delivery timetable of a draft report.
Despite a number of email exchanges with Post Office we are awaiting detailed responses to the following questions
that will impact on final delivery:
1. 'One-sided' transactions (Could they have led to customers getting something for nothing at the
Subpostmaster's expense?)
2. ATMs (Can the 16:30-16:30 output reports be corrupted by power or telecommunications failures?)
3. Suspense Accounts (Has Post Office or any of its 'clients' written back amounts from suspense accounts into
profit?)
Notwithstanding the above, we anticipate releasing a preliminary Draft Report to the Working Group, including an
updated ATM section, by Friday 1 August.
We have always advised that Part Two of our Briefing Report would be a living document and in many respects will not
be considered complete until we have finalised the analysis of substantially all cases in the Scheme, but at present we
are confident that most of the significant issues and our comments will be included in this draft.
Please feel free to include this message in the agenda for Thursday's call if helpful.
Regards
Chris Holyoak
Senior Consultant
Second Sight Support Services Ltd
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