In the Guildford Crown Court
Seema Misra
Further Request for Disclosure
Contract
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1) Please provide a copy of our client’s signed Post Office Contract for Services. The
initial response to this request was that it was already provided at pages 11 and 12
of the exhibit bundle. Page 11 is a signed acknowledgement and page 12 is page 47
of the contract. Please provide a full copy of the contract signed by our client.
I enclose a copy of the Subpostmasters Contract.
2) In a response dated 30 December 2008 to an FOI request, the Post Office indicated
that, between July 1999 and December 2008, 244 sub-postmasters had their
contracts terminated under s1, Paragraph 10 of their Contract for Services.
a) Please confirm the same information for 2009
b) Please indicate how many of those sub-postmasters had losses recorded
on the Horizon system.
These are the details of all subpostmasters who had left
up to mid-November 2009.
the business
information to
part (b).
I
have no
Count of Reason for
Leaving
Perm/Temp
Contract
Reason for Leaving
Permanent
Temporary
Grand
Total
I Abandonment
Abandonment of
Service
Appointment Suspended
Change to Company
Operated
Contract terminated
by POCL
443
35
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Death 23 23
End of contract 193 27 220
End of Season 2 2
Family transfer 3 3
Network Change 250 250
Resign to avoid
termination 41 al
Summary terminated 12 12
Suspension 151 151
Terminate following
suspension 37 37
Voluntary resignation 540 2I 542}
Grand Total 1735 31 1766
ing (Responses supplied by Anita Bravata Field Support Manager for this section).
1) Please provide a copy of the training manual supplied to the Defendant.
We do not have a training manual, we use the Counter
Operation Manuals as our definitive reference point,
Subpostmasters are encouraged to use these to follow
through transactions. These are retained at the Post
Office®.
2) Please provide the date when the manual was supplied and, if supplied in parts, the
dates on which each part was supplied.
The Operation Manuals are not issued by the training team
they are sent directly to the Offices from Stores. Tracey
Cox may be able to help with dates of when the operation
manuals were issued. (I have been in contact with Tracey
Cox and she has sent me a CD containing all the
operational publications. Tracey was not too keen on the
idea of people outside of the business being allowed
detailed information about all our procedures and maybe
you (Warwick) could advise on this point. Tracey Cox may
be able to confirm dates when updates were made to the
manual, but the defence need to be more specific and
state which particular transaction they require this
information for as they have been numerous updates.
3) Please provide copy records of all training provided to the Defendant.
I have in my possession a record of the following
training;
Confirmation of Sales Training and FSA Compliance.
Performance Standards Assessment.
Learning Action Plan.
Request for Ad-Hoc Training.
Training Requirements For Incoming Subpostmasters
4) Please provide details of the qualifications of the trainer and their ability to train
sub-postmasters on the Horizon system.
No specific training qualifications, expereinced counter
clerks that have progressed into the role
5) During the second week of the Defendant’s tenure as sub-postmistress at West
Byfleet the trainer was present during the weekly reconciliation. He called the
helpline to request explanation as to a loss as, in his opinion, the Defendant had at
all times followed procedure. No explanation was given and the Defendant made
good the loss. Please provide the following information:-
a) The name and contact details of that trainer (to assist in identification the
defendant recalls his name was Michael and he was black).
Michael Opebiyi is our only trainer that fits your
desciption,
b) What enquiries were made, bearing in mind the request came from a
trainer, as to the cause of this loss.
Michael's reply - I am sorry I can't remember the training for the office, the
PSA and the learning actions will be on file for the office. I didn't raise any
issue as to loss of stock or cash during my time at the office.
6) In light of the above, the statement by Fujitsu that the calls to the helpline were of a
routine nature is not accepted. Please provide a copy of the log of all calls made to
the helpline by West Byfleet Post Office for a period from 6 months prior to the
Defendant becoming sub-post until the present day.
Fujitsu will provide a CD containing all Helpdesk calls made during this period.
7) Has the Post Office provided any training in the identification of lost EPOSS
transactions and, if so, please provide details of when such training was provided to
the Defendant.
If a problem occurs with Horizon, you should phone NBSC and they will talk you through
what you need to do. It is not covered on the course so that people do not try to
correct it themselves.
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Not sure what you mean by EPOSS transactions, as we do not currently have an
EPOSS based system.
Investigation
8) During investigation the Defendant was given the clear impression that she was the
only sub post office suffering with difficulties. Please confirm how many sub post
offices have undergone some form of investigation, since the introduction of the
Horizon system, arising from alleged losses on the system.
9) During the Defence visit to the sub Post Office at West Byfleet, the investigating
officer, John Longman, made it clear that it was Post Office policy that investigating
officers should never consider systems problems as relevant to their enquiry. Please
provide details of the reasoning behind this policy.
Not true. I told the defence that the auditors would alert me to any problems with
the Horizon system as they would be using it to complete the audit. It also goes
without saying that if at the interview stage with Ms Misra she had mentioned
problems with Horizon as opposed to! then enquiries would have been
instigated with the Helpline and Fujitsu to confirm or dismiss what she was saying.
I have rechecked Adrian Morris’s report and can confirmthat no mention of Horizon
problems was made. I enclose the extract from his report below.
“Ms Misra said that the shortages in the office, were due to previous
She added that the loss had been
Ms Misra said that when they first took on the
carried for over_a_ year.
business, they}... &
to run the office. She states that after a while she noticed things weren't
right and a theft of £1,000.00 had been reported to the Police. She
added the as the
losses were fe] ly £1, : orted to
the Police, Ms Misra said the loss was actually between £89,000.00 and
£90,000.00. Ms Misra confirmed that this loss had been carried since
around November 2006. Ms Misra added that they had been paying
money back into the account in order to try and reduce the loss.
Ms Misra explained that she would hide the shortages by not only
falsifying the cash on hand figure, but also falsely declaring cash in
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pouches or currencies awaiting despatch. When shown Branch Trading
Statement for Branch Trading Period 08, 2006/2007 dated period 15
November to 14 December 2006 Ms Misra confirmed that the cash on
hand figure of £27,993.73 and currencies awaiting collection figure
declared as £13,070.00 were both falsified figures. When shown the
Branch Trading Statement for Branch Trading Period 02, 2007/2008
dated period 16 May to 16 June 2007 and the Branch Trading Statement
for Branch Trading Period 08, 2007/2008 dated period 14 November to
15 December 2007, Ms Misra confirmed that the declared cash on hand
figures and currencies awaiting collection were false figures. Ms Misra
confirmed that all Trading Statements since Branch Trading Period 08,
2006/2007 were false accounts.”
10) John Longman accepted that there was no Post Office requirement that he should
understand the operation of the Horizon system in order to properly conduct his
investigations. Please provide details of the training given to investigators to enable
them to properly conduct an investigation. Given his lack of understanding of the
system what back up teams does the Post Office have to ensure all reasonable
explanations are considered before a criminal investigation is commenced.
I explained to the Defence that I have a working knowledge of the Horizon system
but it is not up to the level of a counter clerk who works with the system on a daily
basis. That is why I referred a lot of the questions he raised to one of the clerks at
the PO. As an Investigator we deal with all types of cases and when we need
guidance or advice on a particular fraud we will consult with Branch Managers,
Counter Clerks, Contract Advisors, Other Investigators and external agencies such as
DVLA or Fujitsu to assist with the understanding of the fraud.
Initial Investigator training comprised of a 4-6 week residential course. We also
receive ad hoc training at times and our required to work on the Post Office counter
for a few days at Christmas and during strike action.
Horizon System
11) In the Defence Expert’s interim report reference was made to the need to have sight
of service logs for West Byfleet. Comment has been made as to the huge cost
involved in pursuing this exercise. Please provide details as to the work involved in
this action and why the cost is so high. Depending on the answer provided to this
request and others contained in this document, a decision will then be taken by the
defence as to whether this action needs to be pursued.
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12) Please provide details of any business testing carried out by the Post Office on the
Horizon system before it went live.
You would need to ask POL about this as we are only responsible for managing live service. Horizon
has undergone stringent testing before it was installed and as far as Tam aware, no evidence exists of
the Horizon equipment ever being proven to have been responsible for anything untoward.
13) Please provide a certified audit trail in relation to the Defendant’s Horizon accounts.
T£S was only installed in September 2007. (TFS (Triole For Service) is the current
Helpdesk call logging system, it replaced the "Powerhelp" system in 2007).
A Cd of all calls will be collated by Fujitsu
14) Please confirm the following:-
a) When, and why, the hardware in the system at West Byfleet Post Office has
been changed.
‘These exchanges will have been completed by Touch logistics who are our preferred third party
supplier for engineering services. They are purely hardware swaps following a standard set of
processes.
b) When new hardware was installed at West Byfleet was it brand new or
reconditioned (i.e. existing hardware that has been wiped prior to
installation).
All the Hardware is reconditioned, we will replace any hard-drives that show as having bad blocks at
repair and we scrap any base units that are returned with the same fault three times. When kit is sent
back from any branch, it has its memory wiped and a full software reload takes place. The install
software is then installed, and the base unit is then uniquely configured to the FAD code it is being
installed at when it is taken to site by the engineer. A base unit will NOT work at any branch if it is
simply taken from one location and an attempted install is made at any other.
c) If it is the latter please confirm the identity of the Post Office from which the
reconditioned hardware came and why the hardware had been removed
from that Post Office.
The location of the hardware being installed at this branch is not relevant as is is returned to repairer
prior to ever being sent out to a new branch and will undergo the tests and processes as described
above.
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15) Please find attached a statement from:
provide the following information:- ~~
In light of the content please
a) in relation to the sub post office in}
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i) Full disclosure of the issues raised by her.
ii) The nature of the apparent losses.
iii) Full disclosure of the steps taken by the Post Office to rectify those
losses on the system thereby removing the deficit.
The findings of the Post Office as to the cause of the Horizon system
to show these losses.
v) The identity and contact details of the woman who contacted her
with a view to resolving the problem.
b) The identity of other post offices that were found to be having problems as a
result of her enquiries.
c) Whether those Post Offices also had deficits rectified.
d) What steps, if any, were taken by the Post Office to upgrade the Horizon
system nationally to take into account their findings.
iv)
Post Office Security Team dealing with this point (see separate e-mail to you)
16) The Defence Expert’s second interim report makes reference to the visit to an un-
named post office. Please confirm that no action will be taken against the post
master in respect of our visit in order that we can identify this post office and
request full disclosure in relation to that post office.
Post Office Security Team dealing with this point (see separate e-mail to you)
17) In light of the Post Office’s stated intention to commence rolling out the new
computerised accounting system from January 2010, please confirm what steps are
being taken to preserve the end to end architecture of the Horizon system in general
and, in particular, to West Byfleet Post Office.
Post Office Security Team dealing with this point (see separate e-mail to you)
18) The Prosecution has always maintained that there is no problem with the Horizon
system. Further it has given the impression that the Defendant’s defence of raising
issue with the system has no merit. To counter that stance, the Defence raise the
following cases by way of example. Others are in the pipeline.
a) On 9" December 2009 the trial of R v Macdonald, a post office prosecution
for theft and false accounting, is due to commence at Preston Crown Court.
In that case the Defence have served an interim expert’s report from a
Forensic Accountant raising potential issues, similar to this Defence Expert’s
IT report, with the Horizon System. Please provide full disclosure of this case
including prosecution summary, defence case statement and expert’s report.
b) On 14" December 2009 the trial of R v Hosi, a post office prosecution for
theft and false accounting, is due to commence at Snaresbrook Crown Court.
In that case the Defence have served an interim expert’s report from a
Forensic Accountant, similar to this Defence Expert’s IT report, raising
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potential issues with the Horizon System. Please provide full disclosure of this
case including prosecution summary, defence case statement and expert’s
report.
Post Office Security Team dealing with this point (see separate e-mail to you)
19) In light of the information supplied to the Prosecution in paragraphs 15, 16 and 17
above please now provide details of:-
a) All post offices, past and present, that have experienced losses with the
Horizon system.
b) All prosecutions, past and present that have been brought for theft
and/or false accounting as a result of alleged losses on the Horizon
system.
Post Office Security Team dealing with this point (see separate e-mail to you)
When considering the request raised in this paragraph, we have taken into careful
consideration that prosecutions by the Post Office are dealt with by one office as
opposed to the CPS which has numerous offices around the country.
Issy Hogg