POL00044831
POL00044831
Record of Tape
Recorded Interview
Person Interviewed Exhibit No:
David Charles Blakey (DB) Number of pages:
Place of Interview Riby Square Subpostoffice
Grimsby
Signature of interviewing
officer producing exhibit
Date of Interview 13 May 2004
Time commenced 13.53 Time concluded 14.25
Duration of interview 32 minutes Tape referenceno 059899
Interviewing Officer(s) I Paul Graham Whitaker (PW) Helen Dickinson (HD)
Other persons present
Tape Person Text
counter speaking
times
00.00 PW The time is 13.53, on the 13" May 2004.My name is Paul Graham Whitaker, my
colleague..
HD Helen Dickinson
PW And also present is
SM David Blakey
PW Right we're still in the office at Riby Square Subpostoffice in Grimsby. It’s a
continuation of the interview that stopped approximately five minutes ago. You got
the time there Helen.
HD Yeah 13.50
PW 13.50 we just stopped to change the tapes. David can you just confirm that whilst
the tapes were off we've not asked you any questions in relation to the case
DB No not at all
PW Thank you very much. Right. As we carry on...on a fresh set of tapes I have to
explain your legal rights again.
DB OK
PGW O.K. this is the form CS001 you signed side A at the start of the last set of
tapes, I'll show you side B, There you go first of all I'll recaution you that is to say
that. You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not
mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything
you do say may be given in evidence. I'll give you your legal rights your legal
rights which are. Firstly that you are not under arrest, secondly you are free to
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leave if you wish. Thirdly if you do remain you have the right to legal
representation and advice including the right to speak with a solicitor either in
person or on the telephone, the solicitor will give you advice regarding legal aid,
and I can ascertain the availability of the duty solicitor or assist with directory
enquiries if you wish. Fourthly there it says you are entitled to read the Police and
Criminal Evidence Act 1984 codes of practice if you wish, the codes set out your
legal rights and the rules governing the conduct of this interview. OK if you can
just time and date the top of the three lines there please. Right cheers,
underneath there it says I confirm that I have been re-cautioned and reminded of
my legal rights. I have also been reminded that I am free to leave if I wish OK.
DB Yes
PGW If you can just signed underneath that then thank you. Similar to the other side of
the page, first one says I wish to speak with a solicitor as soon as practical the
second one says I still do not want to speak with a solicitor at this time. Can you
just indicate which one you are signing against
DB Yeah I'm signing against I still do not want to speak to a solicitor.
PW And then underneath it says that if you do not want to speak to a solicitor at this
time you can change your mind at anytime during the interview. . Do you
understand?
DB Yes
PGW O.K. right jolly good.
03.00 DB is shown form CS003 and indicates that he is happy to continue without a
friend being present.
3.30 PW states that just as the last set of tapes finished he had shown DB last weeks
cash account from the office ( Week 7 2004/2005) and DB had admitted that it
was false. PW asks DB when was the last true account submitted DB states that
he cannot remember specifically but it was some time ago. PW asks again a
round about date for the last true account from the office. A discussion ensues at
which a date is sought for the last true submitted account. During his perusal of
the cash accounts DB states that he prepared and signed them all.
10.00 DB responds to HD's question in relation to how much he inflated the figure in
the first false cash account he submitted by stating that it was £5,000. that he
thought was possibly an error in Girobank work but he did not pursue this as an
error with Girobank as he had covered the figure up in his cash account.
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11.10 In relation to the last true account, DB states that it was probably a year ago.
Again he cannot specifically remember when and states that a lot has been
playing on his mind , and for the last few months he has dreaded every Thursday
until he could get something sorted out.
13.20 DB looks through a number of cash accounts
14.40 DB states that it is week two.
14.50 PW So you've been false accounting since week 2
DB Yeah
PW Right I need to go through this with you...So I've got a cash account here it's dated
9" of the 4"" 2003 week 2 of the financial year 2003 /2004. Its date stamped Riby
Square Grimsby and it's signed by..
DB Yeah by me
PW ...your signature On this document the cash on hand is declared at £51,494.56,
was that the true figure at the time.
DB I believe possibly not
PW Well was it or not
DB (laughs)..... I really can't remember. I'm guestimating that's about the time it was
so if that is the case I will have to say no that is not the figure.
PW Right so this is a false cash account
DB Yes
PW Right you..when you submitted this cash account did you know it to be
false...obviously if you. ..
DB Yes
PW you knew it to be false, and you know that that’s a dishonest thing to do...
DB Yes
PW fe To submit a false cash account
DB Yes I do, although to be honest I didn't realise it was quite as serious at the time
...but I do yes
PW But you know it was wrong to do it
DB Yes I knew it was wrong to do it
PW Yes so that's week 2
DB Yes
PW So we've got week 7 that you've admitted is false, week 2 that you say is probably
round about the start of it and you are prepared to say that that one is a false one
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DB Yes
PW If I can take one from......lets have a look I'll just take week 28 because it's one
that I have put my finger on. Is that your signature?
DB No it's my wife's that one
PW How often does she do the cash?
DB She doesn't
PW She doesn't
DB No she doesn't, she's probably signed that spare one and put it in the drawer, I
think if you check the original, that went away its probably got mine on it.
PW I'll put that to one side and we'll try week 27
DB She might have taken it off the printer and signed and date stamped it but that's
about it.
PW Right week 27 of the year 2003 / 2004 week ending 1* of the 10" 2003, cash
account here office name Riby Square, is that your signature?
DB Yeah
PW So you prepared this cash account
DB Yeah
PW The cash on hand figure there is £87, 286.63. Is that an accurate figure of what
was at the office at the end of that accounting period?
DB No..no
PW Right, so did you inflate that figure or did you inflate the figure to make it £87,000
DB Yes..Yes
PW So you submitted this account and you knew it was false,
DB Uh-uh
PW And you knew it was wrong to submit the account falsely
DB Yes
PW You knew you were committing a dishonest act
DB Yes yeah
PW O.K Right so that's the false accounting bit out of the way, shall we say.
18.20 PW states that throughout the year £60,000 has gone in general on a weekly
basis. Over the year knowing the cash had to be repaid DB has not raised the
issue with anyone, not the retail line, not other departments such as Girobank or
NSB, not Chesterfield where the cash account goes, not with his members of staff,
and that he has just kept it to himself. DB states that he has and that he has
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altered the account every week to cover up the loss.
19.50 PW Can you hear what I'm saying?
DB (laughing) I can yes
PW Can you hear how ridiculous it sounds
DB Yes absolutely
PW Because I still don't believe you
DB I don't know if I believe myself but it’s the truth
Discussion in which PW states that if he is to believe that it is not DB, and at this
time he does not, it must be another member of staff who has stolen the money in
the last 12 months.
22.10 PW I think it's a case of you perhaps, might be the wrong term, but your twisted logic is
you've coughed to the false accounting but...! think you have convinced yourself
that you haven't stolen it. I don't know where the moneys gone, I don't know
whether its something that you've kept secret from your wife or whether your in
financial trouble..
DB No
PW ..-or whether. ...whatever..you've got a mistress on the side...1 don't know what
ever whatever it is it's something that your wife doesn’t know about or it's
something that you want to keep from your wife.
22.50 Discussion regarding financial position of DB at which he states that he had a
redundancy payment of £30,000 when he left Kimberley Clark and they are not
struggling financially. DB states that no other business ventures have turned sour
and the Subpostoffice was to be the couple's retirement package.
24.26 DB I honestly do not know where this money has gone. The only thing that I know for
sure is that I haven't taken it, and my wife hasn't taken it.
PW Well hoe do you know your wife hasn't taken it. Your wife didn’t know you were
covering up the accounts until this morning.
DB No...No ....No way on this earth would my wife take it. My wife is...
PW Well hoe can you say that
DB Because I know my wife.
PW And I bet your wife says that she knows you.
DB Yeah but I know that there is a difference.....you would know if your wife had taken
it wouldn't you
PW I would like to thinks so but I'm sure she would like to think.. know..she would
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know if I'd been false accounting for the last 12 months.
DB My wife knows the only thing I am guilty of is false accounting, and I know that the
only thing that she is guilty of is being naive and trusting me.
25.20 HD explains that if this is DB's retirement plan, because he did nothing to stop the
losses he would have had nothing left. DB agrees and states that sat here he feels
a prat. HD states that DB is showing tremendous loyalty in his staff if he is letting
them get away with discrepancies that he is liable for. Db states that he trusts his
staff.
26.30 PW Well where's the money gone then
DB I really wish I knew, I really honestly wish I knew..
PW I wish you knew as well.
DB Yeah I really don't know
PW I think you do know. I’m still not convinced. I'm still not convinced at all David. I
can't believe the set of circumstances that your expecting us to believe.
DB I know
PW I don’t think anybody in their right mind would
DB No
PW 60,000 quid it's not a drop in the ocean, and I think the only reason whereby you
wouldn't draw that to anybodies attention is because you've had it, and you want to
... you don’t want to draw your own dishonesty to their attention.
DB No that is not true, I have not had the money. I really have not had the money.
PW Is that your last word on it
DB It's the truth that's all I can say on it.
PW Right we'll have to make further inquiries because somebody's had the money
DB Yes
27.38 DB agrees that further inquiries are needed.
28.00 PW states that to finish off the auditors have given him a figure of £64, 874.98
shortage at the office, which may fluctuate slightly.
28.32 PW You say you haven't stolen that
DB No
PW You still say you haven't stolen that
DB I still say I haven't stolen it
PW However you're admitting to putting in false accounts for the office
DB Yes
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PW For round about the last year
DB Yes
PW Yes I mean I gave you the
DB Yeah round about that time
PW ...we looked through the individual cash accounts. Every cash account that's come
out of the office basically for the last year has been a false account.
DB Yes
29.10 DB confirms that his wife does very little back room work. DB confirms that today
is the first his wife know about any of this. DB states that he has done every cash
account for the office and when he and his wife was in Cyprus in March of this year
the office had a 2-week cash account.
31.20 DB agrees to complete a CS045 bank disclosure form which he agrees to
complete off tape.
32.10 DB is shown and signs tape seal, 059899. He is given a notice explaining what will
happen to the tapes.
32.30 PW I have to inform you that you may have rendered yourself liable to prosecution, you
do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention
now something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given
in evidence. Do you wish to clarify anything you have said or add anything before
the end of the interview
DB No the only thing to clarify is that I didn’t take the money
33.13 Interview concluded at 14.25
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