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Record of Tape
Recorded Interview
Person Interviewed Oyeteju Adedayo (OA) Exhibit No:
Number of pages: 10
Place of Interview Rainham Road SPOB
Signature of interviewing
officer producing exhibit
Date of Interview 5 September 2005
Time commenced 15.06 Time concluded 15.51
Duration of interview 45 Minutes Tape reference no 066312
Interviewing Officer(s) I Natasha Bernard (NB) Adrian Morris (AM)
Other persons present
Tape Person Text
counter speaking
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Continuation of interview.
AM makes general introductions.
RE CAUTIONED.
02.59 AM confirms that no questions were asked during the break in relation to the
investigation.
AM At the end of the last tape we were talking about we spoke about the ten
thousand pounds how Joan and you counted it up and you took the money out
to these family and friends that were out in the car. And we were talking about
the twenty thousand pounds that you handed over in June/July. Now we got as
far as saying I believe that you spoken to Joan about it she wasn't happy
OA She wasn't because obviously she knows that it’s the post office money and she
knows I have never done it never
03.58 AM You have because you done it a month before you took ten thousand pounds
OA I know but it wasn't with criminal intention
AM Okay, so what happened what I'm trying to find out here again was it the same
as before who counted that twenty thousand pounds out
OA Between the two of us
AM Between the two of you
OA explains that when she approached Joan with the same problem Joan was
about to send money away. OA explains that the friends/ family were waiting in
05.30 the car outside
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05.49 AM See this is what I find hard to believe that this is friends or family. If you're
actually paying them back I find it hard to believe that this is the case.
OA Because as far as they are concerned I sold Slough
AM This was six years ago
OA I didn't sell Slough six years ago. I sold Slough about 2003
06.03 AM Okay 2003 that's two years ago then
She explains that when she had the High Court case with the previous owner the
friends/family eased off from her. She explains that arrangements were made to
hand over the money during meetings with the family.
She explains that she did not want to take a short-term loan because they are
very expensive. She states that she wanted to get a loan that was tied to the
property.
09.19 AM So you stole from the post office to cover that interim period
OA Well I stole yes, but I did not steal with the intention of criminal mind it it was a
case of trying to save this situation that was just beyond me I would not lie I
would not sit here willingly if I was going to lie about it, I wouldn't
09.52 NB Okay well you said you've stolen the money from the post office you said you
didn't do it with any criminal
OA It wasn't a case of steal and not wanting to put it back because I know I or lie
about it because as soon as he came in and I came in I told him he has not even
started doing I said I need to own up to something I didn't let him waste all his
time because that wasn't the intention, if it was that I would say I am coming
back in one minute I need to go probably get as far away when it's sorted out as
start looking for me but why do I want to that I've got a property here I don't need
to I don't want to do that do
10.39 NB Well you had to tell him really didn't you, you had to, because he was gonna find
out wasn't he
OA Oh absolutely, but then I could have gone away from here you would be looking
which could have been worst
NB states that OA is aware of the proper channels to go through to get a
mortgage
12.16 NB And what I don't understand is why did you change when it came here?
I mean you're not a stupid woman
OA 1am a stupid woman right now I am a little bit stupid because this incident I wish
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I'd spoken to the retail manager
12.34 NB So why didn’t you speak to the retail managers why didn’t you
OA I just got scared
NB You got scared
OA I got scared
NB Why
OA Because you just said it even though my intention is not to steal it it's looked
upon as stolen
12.55 NB Well you did steal it, because who does the money belong to
OA Onl
NB Well tell me who does the money belong to
OA Post Office I
NB It belongs to the post office
OA I know
13.05 NB Right. So why didn't you tell the retail line. What were you scared of
OA The person. I don't know
NB Were you scared you're gonna lose your job
OA Hmm (distressed)
13.20 NB For the benefit of the tape
OA Yes
NB Mrs Adedayo has become a bit distressed, are you ok to continue
OA I'm ok
NB Are you sure
OA I'm ok, I'm ok, I'm ok to continue, I'm ok
NB So you didn't tell the retail line because you didn't want to lose your job
13.43 OA I didn’t want to lose my job and I thought it was something that would come
through because I don’t owe anybody else
NB Right
OA states that she is prepared to give authority for her bank accounts to be
examined
14.36 NB When you took this money, when you stole this money from the post office did
you know that it was dishonest, did you know that what you were doing was
dishonest
OA My heart was in my mouth I wasn't happy I wanted to go through the proper
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channels which was to actually secure a loan on my property. If I didn't have any
equity I can say yes you siphoned the money to do something but I wanted to go
through the proper channels secure the property money on them everybody go
there separate ways and I carry on with my business which was my initial plan.
15.40 NB So how have you benefited by using the post office funds
OA I haven't benefited
NB You haven't
OA Well the only thing is I've benefited by getting rid of them
NB But how much would it have cost you if you had to get a loan, it would have cost
you wouldn't it. You said yourself it was very expensive
OA Very expensive
16.02 NB Exactly. So you have benefited haven't you
OA Ok I get what you're saying. I benefited because I could get rid of them.
OA explains that she wanted the re finance to come from one source
NB So in the mean time you just used the post office as that umbrella
18.34 OA states that as soon as she gets the re mortgage she will repay the post office
OA becomes distressed
NB refers to cash account 10 week ending the 1 June 2005. OA confirms that
she signed the cash account.
NB Now obviously fifty thousand pounds has been stolen from the accounts and this
is a document, are you aware of section 12 of the Subpostmasters contract that
says that the use of post office funds is strictly forbidden
OA I know
20.14 NB Right so you are aware of that
OA Oh I know
NB Now on the cash account on page 2 we've got a cash figure here, this is for the 1
June £56308.94. Is that the true figure?
OA Yes
NB That is the true figure
OA That's not when the fifty was out
NB So when did the ten thousand come out, you said in June or July
OA That's what I'm saying, what I’m saying is
NB Right
OA That amount of money some has been returned so it's not that time I would have
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got the fifty because we wouldn't have had any money
NB Yes I know that I understand that but ten thousand pounds wasn't there
OA Yes
NB Right
OA Out of that
NB So you would have taken ten thousand pounds out of a particular week in the
month but I want to identify now what week that was. Now you said June
OA I would say that is part of it
NB So this is week ending the 1 June 2005
OA I would say that is part of it
NB What do you mean that is part of it
OA The ten thousand would have added, I didn't take it, I put it back in
21.35 NB I understand that. So you've inflated your cash is that what you're telling me
OA Yes
NB If for example you physically had twenty thousand pounds of twenty-pound notes
to accommodate for the ten thousand that you taken out you'd have to increase
the figure, is that what you were doing?
21.57 OA Yes
NB Okay. Now what I am trying to establish then is this figure here 56308.94 was
that the correct figure
OA That was the correct figure. Every single thing on the account
NB Was there fifty six thousand pounds in the post office
OA Physically
NB Physically
22.19 OA No. Because at that time ten was out
NB No, right
OA Fifty-six would have been the figure for that week.
OA confirms that only £46k would have been on hand
23.00 NB So that figure there £56308.94 is actually a false figure isn’t it, it's not true is it
OA Yes, because I took
NB And the signing of the cash account are you aware
OA I know
23.11 NB Right so you know that the signing of the cash account means is a true and
accurate reflection of what's in the accounts. Okay so that is a false figure isn’t
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it?
23.18 OA Yes
NB And you signed that cash account. Do you accept that
OA Yes
NB refers to cash account 15 week ending 6 July 2005.
NB Here we have a figure of £59907.93 is that a false figure?
OA It is because of the ten thousand
NB Itis. So is it still ten thousand missing at this point
OA Yes
NB So when does the twenty thousand go missing at what point
OA I would say roughly in July August
NB So you accept that this is a false figure
24.06 OA Yes
NB And you accept that you've signed the cash account as well
OA I know
NB Right ok. Lets go then to week number 20 and that's week ending 10 August
2005. Again we have a cash figure of £67276.36. Now this was week ending 10
August 2005
OA I think at that time I've come back for the twenty
NB You've done what
OA I think I've, he's had that money and I think I've come back to ask her for the
twenty thousand to give them
NB Right so it's about thirty thousand pounds short now is it
OA Yes
NB So is that figure a false figure then
25.14 OA Itis
NB Itis. And you accept that you signed that cash account
OA I did yes
NB And so when did the last. So July /August that was August, at what point did the
last twenty thousand go.
OA I think it was in July, no sorry it was in August.
NB August when. This is the 10 August
NB tries to establish how long the accounts have been short by £50k
26.38 AM When did they last come and visit you
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OA August
AM When in August
OA Second or third the week
AM Second or third week of August
NB refers to week 22 week ending the 24 August 2005.
NB You've got a cash figure here of sixty two thousand
OA The money was twenty thousand was showing there
NB What I'm trying to get at is when the fifty thousand
OA The fifty thousand was sitting there
NB What do you mean it was sitting there
OA By that time I've taken the
27.50 NB By that time you've taken fifty thousand
OA For them, yes, over a period of time
AM So the cash in the office would've been twelve thousand pounds then
OA I think it would have
NB Right
OA Think so
AM Wellis it or not. That's showing £62700.00
OA What I'm not sure is if that is showing also money we booked out.
NB confirms from the cash account that £20k was in a pouch awaiting collection
28.30 and is separate from the cash on hand figure on the cash account. OA confirms
that since the 24 August 2005 the accounts have been short by £50k. OA
agrees that the cash figure is a false figure and confirms that she signed the
cash account.
30.22 AM refers to cash declaration 23 August 2005 and OA confirms that Joan would
have prepared the cash declaration and that Joan would have inflated the cash
knowing that OA owes the cash to the post office. OA states that Joan was
worried about the cash not being in the accounts but was just trying to save her
neck by inflating the cash.
NB refers to manuscript cash declarations for 23 August 2005. OA confirms her
own writing and Joan's writing. NB confirms 23 August 2005 was a Tuesday
33.30 NB Can you tell me underneath the twenty’s I've got £52620.00, then in brackets
there's a T, what does that mean?
OA The T is that I've taken
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OA Taken
NB And underneath the ten
OA I've spread them because obviously if I put thirty thousand there are you with me
if I put thirty thousand there it's gonna show
NB So £52620.00
OA Was wrong
NB That T means that what you've taken is that right, have I understood what you
mean
34.01 OA No that is what I've taken including what is in the safe
NB I'm not with you, no
OA You know when we count it, when we count what is in the safe
NB Yes
OA What is sitting there I've taken is included
NB So why have you put T there then
AM What do the other figures mean then
OA Some is if we've sent money out but they haven't collected but they're in the
pouch, whatever denomination. Do you understand what I'm saying? Whatever
denomination we've got to go out because they haven't collected it we still have
to account for it
AM Ok
OA Do you understand? Basically that is to show that what we have underneath,
what is in the safe and what I have taken
35.03 NB Ok so how do you know what you've taken, where is it on this piece of paper
OA It's on there it included it
NB What do you mean, included it with what
OA Includes means taken, taken is referred to me
NB So you took £52620.00
35.14 OA I did not take fifty-two. Taken means in bracket that figure includes my money,
are you with me, that figure includes my money
NB Ok lets move on what's this letter here underneath the tens, there's £560.00
what does that say
OA That is what is in the safe the four thousand is what is in the pouch
NB No the £560
OA The £560 was what is under the where we put the money
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NB What does this letter mean
OA What Joan has already taken out of the till
NB Underneath the fives there’s an L.
36.00 OA What is in the till, not money taken by anybody but what is in the till
OA explains that not all the money is brought out.
AM asks what the relevance of the different letters are
OA explains that there is a pocket in the tray where money is put. OA explains
that the letters do not really stand for anything.
39.46 NB So how did you keep a note of how much money you were giving to these
people, did you keep a note of it or you just knew
OA How do you mean
NB Well did you have to write it down.
OA I know that I owe them fifty.
OA confirms that she is unwilling to give the names of these people.
NB Well to be fair you actually had enough didn't you if you'd have gone through the
proper channels
41.18 OA Believe me I know that was what I was trying to do, that was what I thought I
would be able to do on time.
OA confirms that Joan would be able to corroborate that she was taking money
from the post office
OA confirms that she would be able to provide the paperwork to back up her
claims.
44.31 NB Is there anything that you'd like to add or clarify before the end of the interview
OA lam sorry. I am very sorry about this. This is what I was trying to avoid. Believe
them I was trying to avoid them embarrassing me and I was trying I just thought
maybe the post office would understand. I know I took the money but I thought
they will understand, give me time. I take my job serious I take every thing that
is written in the contract very serious I would not do anything like this if I was not
sandwiched between a pillar and a post. And it was just a case of avoiding the
embarrassment truly, truly and I'm sorry because it's not something I've done
deliberate I don't even need, if it's something for me I don’t even need it you
understand but because I had to give it to them hence this all came to a head
and I thought ok the post office will come and I will explain in fact I was almost
giving somebody a call the person that actually interviewed me did everything I
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called to tell her because I couldn't sleep in my own bed either. If the re
mortgage has come through believe me what do I need the money for I don't
lead an extravagant life I don’t care about holidays for almost eight years I
haven't been on one
NB This tapes going to finish now
OA Ok
NB So if that's everything.
NB hands OA form CS019
Tape seal 066312 signed
AM The time is now 15.51 I'm now suspending the interview.
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