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Record of Taped Interview
Summary Record of Taped Interview
Person interviewed: Khayyam ISHAQ (KI) Exhibit No: SB/19
Place of Interview: Training Room Number of pages: 8
Bradford Delivery Office
Signature of interviewer producing
Date of Interview: 27 September 2011 Time commenced: 11.10
Tape reference no.: 071404 Time concluded: 11.33
Duration of 23 MINUTES
Interview:
Interviewing Stephen BRADSHAW (SB) Kevin RYAN (KR)
Officers:
Other persons Musa PATEL (MP) - SOLICITOR
present:
Tape Person TEXT
counter speaking
times
Voice identification of everyone present and the nature of the
enquiry explained. Permission to tape record given.
1.30 KI cautioned and reminded of legal rights. KI told (1) he is not
under arrest, (2) is free to leave, (3) is entitled to legal
representation and advice including the right to speak with a
Solicitor and (4) is entitled to read the Police and Criminal Evidence
Act 1984 Codes of Practice setting out the rules and rights
governing the conduct of this interview. The necessary form
completed and signed — Solicitor present.
4.30 The Royal Mail Employee Rights to a Friend at an interview or
search form GS003 completed and signed. Offer of friend — friend
declined.
6.00 The reason for this interview was explained to KI and MP.
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Summary Record of Taped Interview — Continued
6.40 SB In the first interview you stated that you both completed the Branch
Trading Statement and the cash declaration is that still correct?
KI Yes
SB Right, what you are saying is that is that Mr Liaquat also took part
in doing the cash declarations of a night, even though Mr Liaquat
said that he did not do any cash declarations, you are saying that is
untrue?
Kl He counted the cash and obviously used to write on a piece of
paper, how much cash there was.
SB Right, you counted the cash, who actually inputted the cash
declaration onto the Horizon screen?
KI Sometimes he did sometimes I did.
SB So what you are saying, he said to us that his sole responsibility
was only to serve customers, but I accept that he has probably
assisted sometime with the balance.
KI Yes
7.35 KI confirmed that the shop opened at six thirty and the Post Office
was open nine to half five, did not close for lunch and the shop
closed at five thirty.
KI also confirmed that he sometimes gave Mr Liaquat a lift and was
with him when the shop opened
SB You said at the first interview that his hours of attendance were 10
to 4 o’clock and you did nine to ten and then finish off at four
o'clock to half past five, is that still the case?
Kl His core hours were between 10 and 4 and they were flexible. We
did, he did slide them himself
9.00 SB Again he did say to us that he worked Monday to Friday, nine to
half five every day.
9.05 Kl That was up to him, his core hours were set, obviously if you can
imagine it is a business, we set him core hours that he is going
have to work, beyond that if he wanted to work that was offered to
him at the time.
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Summary Record of Taped Interview — Continued
KI was asked if he had any records regarding the time keeping of
Mr Liaquat.
KI We did not have a time sheet.
SB How was he was paid for these extra hours. Did you pay him or
Kl In his wage
It was explained that if he worked these extra hours then there
would be a record of the hours. KI was asked if these extra hours
were reflected in Mr Liaquat’s wage slips.
10.22 KI I don’t think so because it was time in lieu and stuff like that was
given to him, added onto his holidays and stuff like that. There is no
money involved in that.
SB Was there any paper record for the time in lieu?
Kl No because obviously he did have a figure, I asked him to write it
down and remind me. But he use to take half a day off, you know
during the week, I’m going at this time and we just let him go
because obviously we knew he had worked those hours.
KI confirmed that he took Mr Liaquat’s word for the amount of hours
owed to him.
11.15 SB You also said in your first interview that you never shared any
passwords, he didn’t know yours and you did not know his. Is that
still the case did you not know his password
11.22 Kl No
11.25 SB Because Mr Liaquat says to us, initially which is the normal way of
setting up the system, you gave Mr Liaquat his password and he
would be prompted to change his password
KI After that I don’t know
SB Right, what he is saying to us is that he changed his password
when he was prompted and he told you on every occasion what his
new password was because that is what he thought he had to do. Is
that the case?
KI No
12.00 SB So, what you are saying is that he never came to you with a
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Summary Record of Taped Interview — Continued
password?
Kl No, I still even to this day I don’t know, I usually set them up and
then that is it. It is their job to remember it.
SB Again on part of the first interview you said that when you use to do
a balance, you balanced on a monthly basis. Did you do anything
on a weekly basis? Did you balance and roll over into the next
period, because it is broken up into balance period one, two, three
and four. Did you roll from balance period one into two, into three to
four and then produce your Branch Trading Statement.
KI I think we did
KR asked KI did he balance every Wednesday as opposed to once
a month.
13.00 Kl I think we did a balance for the cash and for what we assumed what
was there
A discussion took place regarding the balance.
13.45 KI was asked when the final figure was reached on the balance
either on the Wednesday or the end of the month was Mr Liaquat
present.
KI Sometimes he will be there, sometimes he would leave a bit earlier
you know start the balance, he would do the cash count and then
sometimes he would say he was going and I said to him you go and
I'll finish off and sometimes he use to stay right to the end.
14.10 Kl Because I was showing him how to do the balancing as well it was
in his interest to stay back and learn how to do the balance.
SB explained to KI that it was our understanding that he was never
present at the end of the balance.
14.30 Kl He may not have been looking at the screen but he was there.
SB In the first interview when we were speaking about the two
balances with the large amounts. You said that when you reached
the first one which I think is SB/8 the one for £4211.21, which was
shown as being short, the explanation you gave was that you have
already completed the balance and you had found some cash in the
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Summary Record of Taped Interview — Continued
drawer
KI On the side
SB Not in the drawer on the side
KI I think it was in the side
15.20 SB You said that it was the cash you had never counted
Kl Yes because we had started the balance process and he had forgot
to include that cash and then goes I forgot to do it
SB And then you completed the balance process and you were £4211
out, what you had done was put the cash in. So the £4200 short on
the account put the cash in and this would straighten the account
for the next trading period wouldn't it because you had put the
money in? Is that still the case?
KI Yes
16.05 It was said to KI that Mr Liaquat had said that he was never told
about any discrepancy and he had forgotten to count cash.
16.15 Kl I think that he forgets most things that you tell him, you can tell him
what to do today he would probably forget that
KI explained that it was a small office and Mr Liaquat was stood
there and said that he had forgot this one and we had already
started the balance and there was nothing more that he could do.
KI said that just put it back in the safe (meaning the money) and
that is what Mr Liaquat did.
KI said that he had forgotten to mention that.
17.00 SB explained the following month (SB/9) there was another
shortage of £3658.13 and KI had said exactly the same that Mr
Liaquat had forgotten to count the cash.
17.20 Kl I was teaching him how to do the balance and how to count the
cash and put the cash into the system. Now for those two balances
he forget to do that, you know he left the cash there, once he had
left it on the side, the other one he had left it in the drawer.
SB So what you are saying in that Mr Liaquat is mistaken and he did
not the cash was there on both these occasions and that is why
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Summary Record of Taped Interview — Continued
these are the two occasions when you have never contacted
Chesterfield because you had said that you always get in touch
with Chesterfield when you had a loss
KI Yes
SB In the first interview we covered some of the losses that were
shown and had settled centrally because we had these two
(inaudible) you saying that you didn’t contact Chesterfield for these
ones was the cash was on the side
18.10 Kl The cash was there
SB And it is still the case that in TP8 the £3658 that all the money was
found and put in and the same for TP7 £4211 and it is not a roll of
once loss from one to another.
18.30 Kl No
SB explained to KI that he had said that he had never physically
counted the cash or stock when he received a remittance and that
he would populate the figures. SB explained what was meant by
populated figures.
KI then spoke to MP (inaudible)
19.55 MP I think what he is telling you he did count the cash that was
received but it was the stock that he was on about.
SB When the cash came in you counted the cash, you counted the
bundles then count the individual notes
KI Not always, we did count on occasions, we would count it and put it
away
KI explained that because they were counting the cash weekly they
would count the cash anyway.
SB So all the cash was actually physically counted
Kl Yes, when in bundles it wasn’t counted but when it was loose
obviously it was counted
20.35 SB So what you are saying is that you never counted the stock
It was explained that Mr Liaquat was of the understanding that KI
physically counted the cash and stock.
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Summary Record of Taped Interview — Continued
SB So what you are saying is that he is mistaken again and that you
only physically counted the cash
Kl Anyway when the cash came in, the rems came in he was never
there, maybe he was there on occasions but he never saw what
was happening so he can't clarify that.
21.00 SB Of a morning who got the cash and stock out
Kl Because his role has progressed as well as we have gone on, we
did, I originally set him up and we didn’t use to take out the bulk
cash, we use to use what ever was in the hoppers and in the small
little tub that we had to run the counter that is what we would put
out in a morning.
KI said that as Mr Liaquat’s training progressed Mr Liaquat put out
the cash and stock in the morning.
22.00 KI confirmed that initially he would replenish the cash on the
counter from the safe and again as Mr Liaquat’s training
progressed, Mr Liaquat would replenish the cash.
KI and MP were asked if they wished to add or clarify any point.
They did not.
KI explained the current position regarding repayment of the
outstanding amount.
Notice GS019 (Explanation of what happens to the tapes) was
handed over.
23.00 Master tape seal signed on number 071404
Interview terminated at 11.33
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