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ROYAL MAIL GROUP —- CONFIDENTIAL
Record of Taped Interview
Full Taped Interview Transcript
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Person interviewed: JENNIFER O’DELL (JOD) Exhibit No:
Place of Interview: CAMBRIDGE CROWN OFFICE Number of pages: 22
Signature of interviewer producing record
Date of Interview: 27.5.10 Time commenced: 10.55
Tape reference no.: 060370 Time concluded: 11.37
Duration of Interview: 42 MINUTES
Interviewing Officers: I JON LONGMAN (JL) LISA ALLEN (LA)
Other persons
present:
Tape counter I Person TEXT
times speaking
Voice identification of everyone present and the nature of the enquiry
explained. Permission to tape record given.
1.30 JO’D cautioned and reminded of legal rights. JO’D confirmed that prior to
the interview, forms GS0001 and GS003 were completed and signed when
it was indicated that no Solicitor or friend were required. JO’D was
informed she could change her mind at any time. JO’D told she is not
under arrest, is free to leave and is entitled to read the Police and Criminal
Evidence Act 1984 Codes of Practice setting out the rules and rights
governing the conduct of this interview.
3.10 JO’D states she has been Sub-Postmistress at Great Staughton since 20"
November 2000 and described herself as competent. Her son Daniel O’Dell
has worked for her in the last year covering her hours when she is off as it
only requires one person at a time, her hours being:- 9 — 4 Monday,
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Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and 9 — 2 on Wednesday.
5.40 JO’D confirmed her log on code to be JODO01, her sons being DOD001.
She admits they had worked under each other’s code during short breaks.
JO’D does monthly balancing and the trading account. Her son is not
trained to do them.
7.25 JL How do you check the cash when you do a trading account?
JO’D I take everything out of the safe, all the bags copper all the notes all the
stamp, well I take the whole bottom tray out and I count it. I mean I don’t
count the bags physically I weigh them because I know roughly how much
the bags weigh so I do it that way and then I count the notes as well
separately. I keep them in bundles of, well the £5 notes are in 500’s and
the 10’s and the 20’s are in 1000 bundles so I count them separately you
know each note by note each trading period and I normally do that on the
Wednesday morning and I do a quick balance before I do the main balance
to sce if there is anything amiss so that you know if there is anything I can
see if I can count it as stamps wrong or done something stupid.
LA Have you always done it like that?
JO’D Yeah.
8.27 JL So when you produce a trading account the cash on it is always correct is
that right? The cash figure shown as on hand?
JO’D No not since I was having these discrepancies.
JL Ok we’ll come onto that ok.
JOD Alright yes no it hasn’t no I mean I’ve never balanced exactly because it’s
always been about you know a couple of pounds down or a couple of
pounds up. If I’m down I put the money in you know a few pounds, if it’s
up I put the money into a plastic bag and put it in the safe so that you
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know.
LA You’ve got kind of like a little float?
JO’D Yeah it’s no more than 10, well not even £5 I’ve never been really £5
wrong so I’ve got a kind of little float as you say ‘cos that’s what I was,
well I don’t know whether they were supposed to have told me to do it but
they, I was, it was suggested when I was trained up when I first took over.
9.20 JL What level of cash holding is needed to run the Post Office are you a
paying out office there or are you sort of self sufficient in terms of cash
coming in?
JO’D Sorry I don’t understand you?
JL Right ok some offices send a lot of money back because they receive a lot
of money?
JO’D No I don’t.
JL You’re a paying out office are you?
JO’D Right.
9.43 JL What level of cash do you need, as a rough average?
JOD Approximately £6,500 a week, 5,500, 6,500.
JL That’s how much you need to?
JOD Roughly well it used to be yes.
JL It’s quite a quiet office then?
JO’D Oh yes yes.
10.05 JL Right obviously an audit shortage was performed at your office on the 6"
January 2010 and it was by?
JO’D Lesley.
JL Lesley Frost?
JO’D Yes.
JL She came to the office, she found, I can give you the full audit report.
JO’D I’ve got it at home I’ve read it.
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JL Ok.
JO’D Can I just butt in, there was Lesley Frost and a gentleman that I can’t
remember his name he also came with her.
10.45 JL But anyway there was a difference in the cash figures round of
£15,412.52, difference in stock figures of a gain of £3,906.90, a difference
in the foreign currency figures of a gain of £35.83.
JO’D Oh yes that’s right yeah.
JL And an outstanding amount previously settled centrally of again a gain of
£1,853.13p which resulted in a total shortage of £9,616.66. Now we know
that you’ve been in contact with the helpline about issues at the Post
Office but in your own words would you like to explain how the losses
started occurring at your Post Office?
11.37 JO’D Right June the, I’ve forgotten the dates sorry.
JL Approximately.
JO’D Was it June the 2" would have been my trading period balance for the
May, I did my balancing and the monies were down £1,000 and something
I know there was a 6 at the end and I can’t remember exactly how much.
JL Roughly £1000 over?
JO’D Well it was just over £1,000 down. I tried to find the £1,000 couldn’t find
it looked everywhere for it, there’s my counter here my safe is down there,
my drawer is there and the post bags are kept there and then my counter is
like that.
LA Is it just a one position office?
JO’D One position, the parcel?
LA Hatch?
JO’D Hatch sorry is by the post bags right and I’ve got the scales on the other
side. Anyway I looked for this £1,000 ‘cos I’d normally take it out of the
safe and put it in the drawer ok that’s the way it goes and I couldn’t find
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this £1,000 I looked everywhere and I thought would I have put it down
somewhere I looked everywhere in the office I mean it’s not very big but I
even looked, went down into the kitchen and looked in the fridge and the
freezer ‘cos you just don’t, I mean I don’t know about you but I do stupid
things put things down can’t think. Anyway so I started panicking
thinking did I put it in the drawer or I couldn’t have done, did I put it in
the post sack not thinking, don’t know so I looked and I looked and I
thought it’s no good I’ve looked so much that I’m looking too much now
so I made it balance. I think I put in the odd money the something £6 or
whatever it was I put that in so it was £1,000 down on.
LA Exactly at that time now?
13.43 JO’-D Yeah on the May trading period.
13.47 JL And that was the first major discrepancy you’d had?
JOD Yes.
JL In all your years at the Post Office?
JO’D No it wasn’t.
JL Right.
JO’D Shall I explain about that one?
JL No no carry on.
JOD No carry on with this one. So when I went to the June trading period
which I can’t remember what the date was now must have been July
something, I did it and I was just under £2,000 wrong and I thought no
there’s something going on here there’s something really really strange
here it’s almost double what it was so I thought well is my son doing
something wrong, have I not shown him something and the next time he
did it I stood in and I couldn’t see anything that he was doing wrong, I
checked all my figures, checked all my stamps because you know if you’re
wrong it’s normally in the adding up of your stamps you know. Couldn’t
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find it and did I ring the helpline up then or was it afterwards, can’t
remember, July.
JL If it helps I’ve got the first record is the 4"* August 2009.
15.00 JO’-D I thought it was July anyway sorry.
JL Tl show you that.
JOD Yes yeah it probably was I haven’t brought those paperworks. So I just
thought well I don’t know what’s going on here there is something going
on and my pin pad was playing up, started playing up in the May sorry I
meant to say that. Can I explain what was going on there?
JL Sure.
JO’D Yeah, people would come along with like a Barclays connect card wanting
to withdraw cash so they'd put it in the pin-pad, I’d go through it all
supposing they wanted £40 I’d put it on the computer and everything and
it would go through it all and then it would just say no this card is not for
the pin-pad, ask the customer to give it to you to swipe so I’d swipe it, put
in the £40 bla bla bla they’d put the pin number in and then it would come
up no this card is not for swiping give it back to the customer so I’d have
to give it back to the customer, they’d have to put it back in the pin pad
we'd have to go through it all, sometimes it would work and we’d get the
£40 out and sometimes it wouldn’t and that was with both not Nat West is
it Nat West no Lloyds sorry, Lloyds and Barclays and with all the other
cards that you can and that would happen not every day, there was no
rhyme or reason for it, it just sometimes it would happen and sometimes it
wouldn’t.
JL But if, how would it cause a loss, if it 1 know you can’t?
16.27 JO’D Well I don’t know, no I’m just saying to you that it was about May time
that this was happening. I don’t know I’m just saying to you.
JL Ok you’re just, you’re topping it up.
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JOD This is what was happening.
JL Right ok.
JO’D So anyway yeah so then 4'" August which that would be then roughly
when I would balance with July wouldn’t it?
JL Yeah.
JOD Right I rang up the helpline and I just said, oh no, I rang up helpline I then
had to leave a recorded message and I asked for my BDM ‘cos I wanted
them to know. The helpline rang back and I don’t know whether it was
the next day or whether it was the same day I can’t remember and I said I
wanted to speak to my BDM and they said you can’t you have to speak to
us. Because unbeknown to me I haven’t got a BDM and I was never told I
haven’t got BDM and I don’t really know what BDM stands for.
LA Branch Development Manager.
17.30 JO’D Well I’ve never been told that. As far as I was concerned I had an RN.
LA RNM.
JO’D Yeah which is Mr. Sinclair and it changed and I’ve never been told
anything.
JL When you rang the helpline, we’ve got the dates to the 4" August.
JOD Right ok.
JL And that would have been, would that have been your third balance with?
JO’D Yeah probably it sounds about right.
JL So how much were you down at the time when you made that call?
Jo’D Nearly 3,000 by then.
JL So it was going up by £1,000 cach?
JOD Roughly each month. The helpline I said I wanted to speak to my BDM I
was told, I wasn’t told that I hadn’t got a BDM by then and I was told that
they would sort it out and I said well there’s a discrepancy and all I got
was a very curt message well you’ve got to make it good yourself and I
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said but I’m not, I’ve not taken it, there’s something wrong with the
machinery. Well you’ve got to make it good yourself and that was it she
was very curt, very nasty and I thought what else do I do, what else can I
do. So yes I falsified the accounts on mitigating circumstances because
IT wasn’t taking the money, I haven’t taken the money so why should I
make it good if I’m not taking it.
JL Can I just clarify Jenny?
JO’D ‘Yeah.
JL You made the call on the 4" August I’ve got, can show you the log.
JO’D Yeah I know you’ve got them there.
JL Just to prove that.
JO’-D Yes right.
JL Probably said a lot more than what’s actually typed in.
JOD That’s right.
JL On the 4"" August pm Postmaster says has ongoing discrepancies where to
look for them, that was what’s recorded. Are you saying that before you
made that call when you did the end of May balance did you inflate your
cash on that first occasion when?
JOD Yeah.
19.23 LA Up until that point you’ve done it in May you’ve done it in June?
JO’D That’s right.
LA And then you did it again in the August.
JO’D Yeah because.
LA You'd left the message and they hadn’t helped you?
JOD Yeah exactly.
JL Right but the first two inflations or 3 inflations you done before you made
the phone call?
JO’D No.
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JL First 2?
JOD 2.
JL Ok alright so can I just ask you why you didn’t ring the helpline when you
first, got the first £1,000 discrepancy?
JO’D Because I thought I’d put it down somewhere and I thought that I would find
it.
JL What you thought it might come out in the next balance or?
JO’D Yes.
20.03 JL Come out in the wash somewhere so to speak?
JO’D Yes absolutely. As I said earlier you know you kind of you spend too much
time looking for something and you can’t see it so I thought if I walk away
from it I might find it somewhere.
LA The day when you initially in May discovered your £1,000 loss you’re
saying.
JO’D No in June.
LA In June sorry you’re saying it was £1,000 you’ re saying as if you had it in
your hand at one point and then it was gone?
JOD I don’t know.
LA Right that day do you recall if you had any visitors to your office?
JOD Nobody comes round, only the postman and my drawer is always shut.
LA Right does the postman have to come into the office to collect the mail then
or does he collect it from the public side?
Jo’D No he takes the bags off for me to save me ‘cos the door where he comes in
is just there and the mail bags are there and I shut my drawer ‘cos I can’t get
through with my drawer open and he comes round clicks them off and takes
them out and that’s all that happens but my drawer is shut.
21.10 LA Right so he wouldn’t have access to your cash?
JO’D No not at all.
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21.18 JL Ok so we’re up to £3,000 you’ve made a call and what response did you get
from that call?
JO’D I’ve just told you.
JL Just to make it good?
JO’D Just to make it good that’s all. She was very curt very unhelpful not very
good at all.
JL Ok but obviously you weren’t making it good you were inflating the cash?
JO’D No yeah.
JL So what happened at the end of August ‘cos we’re up to £3,000.
JO’D Yeah it was once again, it was nearly was it over 4,000, 4,000 it was roughly
£1,000 a month.
22.09 JL And September 5,000?
JO’D Yeah.
22.18 JL October’s balance 6,000?
JO’D Yeah now I did ring the helpline again.
JL I can confirm that.
JOo’D Oh right yeah sorry.
JL On the 4"" November 2009 there’s a record that somebody’s rang the office.
JOD Myself.
JL Right and said.
JO’D So that would have been October’s balancing.
JL Right a loss of £7,000. I’ll read it as it is it doesn’t quite.
JO’D I know it doesn’t does it.
JL Office has a loss of £7,000 she has been carrying this since May, refused to
make it good as she said it’s not her loss. E-mailed NSA but PM wants a
call back from tier 2. well again you’re asking for assistance from some
manager?
JO’D Yeah I’ve been asking assistance all the time.
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JL Right so between August and this call in November had anybody come out
to see you?
JO’D No nobody.
JL So they just told you to make the money good?
JO’D Yes.
JL And of course you hadn’t been making it good because?
JO’D No.
JL It was accruing at £1,000?
JO’D Yes that’s why I kept ringing them up asking for my BDM because I wanted
somebody to come out and see or somebody to start taking action. I was
never told anything by that helpline only that I’ve got to make it good that’s
all they said to me and well one of them, the second caller she said well
you’ve got to check and I said I have been checking and I started doing daily
logs of the work, excuse me I’m going to cough (coughs), sorry about that,
can I have a Lozenger?
24.18 LA Is the Post Office attached to your private premises?
JO’D Yes.
24.23 LA Right ok and has the Post Office been re-opened since you’ve?
JOD No.
24.30 JO’D said her husband has access to the cash as he brings her coffee down
but never covers for her.
25.04 JL Ok I’ve just noticed on the 5" November there was another entry on this
helpline?
Jo’D Right.
JL Did you call 2 days on the trot?
JO’D Oh I don’t know I can’t remember.
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JL It says Sub-Postmaster reports having £1,000 loss a month since May now
totalling 7,000. That she refuses to make good as she blames the system for
the losses. Sub-Postmaster’s done many checks and cannot find anything
and not had corrections. Sub-Postmaster insisting on, and it’s got escalating
and it’s got nothing else.
JOD No exactly. I would like to say at this point that I did ask for proper copies
of what I was told by the helpline that you will not supply me with any of it
all because it will cost £2,000 for the Post Office.
JL Sorry no no I think.
JO’D That’s what it says in your letter.
JL That’s right I understood you wanted all the transaction data?
JO’D I did.
JL That would cost £2,000 not the helpline cost.
JOD Well I haven’t been issued any of what I have asked Miss. Muddeman for.
JL Yeah if I can just clarify the transaction logs ‘cos that comes from the
investigation department, if you wanted.
JOo’D I wanted 3 things.
JL Yeah you wanted.
JOD I wanted hard copies of everything that I’ve told by the helpline because
surely that’s been copied, hard copies of what I actually said and also I
received a telephone call and I think it was from, sorry was it Swindon
where.
LA Stock centre?
JO’D Stock centre last year, I received a call from a chap asking me why I was
moving my large letter stamps which I thought was really weird, why I had
moved them and it’s ‘cos I had sold out of the loose ones so I used a book of
them and I thought that was really weird and I haven’t received anything
because your letter said that.
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JL No I think I was asked to deal with the transaction logs and if you.
JO’D I’m sorry Mr. Longman but whatever I’ve asked the Post Office, Post Office
is absolutely useless.
27.40 JO’D was informed that it was too costly to fish out a year’s supply of data.
She continued:-
27.46 JO’D The thing is I haven’t done this. Now the Post Office presumably is missing
over £9,000 according to that information.
JL Well as we stand they’d be expecting you under your contract to make that
good.
JO’D Well I’m not going to, I’m not going to make it good because I don’t owe
that money so if it does go to court then you’re going to have to produce that
log aren’t you?
28.18 JL Which log are you talking about the?
JO’D Transaction log.
JL Transaction log.
JOo’D And what else I’ve been asked. You’re investigating me you haven’t been
giving me anything that I have asked for.
28.40 It was explained to JO’D that if she could be more specific as to when the
error was made then the information could be obtained.
28.58 JO’D The system’s gone wrong since May?
LA Why would it go wrong from May work for the last however many years
and then all of a sudden May it’s gone?
JO’D I don’t know, I have no idea I don’t know the system I’ve never been trained
up properly on the system.
LA Do you do cash declarations on a daily basis?
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JOD Yes.
LA And what are the outcomes of those cash declarations on a daily basis?
JO’D Well I showed them all about it I’ve written on the top what the shortages
were.
29.32 LA But you would know roughly how much is in your office ‘cos like if you
said you only had £6,500 roughly.
JO’D That’s right.
LA So it’s quite minimal.
JO"D Yeah.
LA So how can you lose 1,000 in a day?
JO’D Exactly how can I, yes I can’t, I can’t work having lost that money but I
haven’t lost that money.
LA But it’s gone somewhere.
JO’D Tell me.
LA If you’re saying you haven’t took it how do you know somebody else hasn’t
taken it?
JOo’D Well there’s only my son in there my son certainly hasn’t but you’ll have to
ask him that ‘cos he’s over 18 now.
LA Does he work apart from the Post Office?
JOD Yes he does yes. He was at college.
LA At the time the losses started he was at college?
JO’D Yes.
LA From May?
JO’D Yes well he was at college from the previous September.
LA Right and he just helped out occasionally?
JO’D Yeah.
LA So what did you pay him for his services or?
JO’D Well he worked for his keep so to speak so I didn’t actually pay him but
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when I was on, when I was away for days off and I’d be paid by the Post
Office for his substitution, he’s properly logged in at the Post Office to be a
worker then he would get that money.
LA Right yes what is your monthly salary take home salary for that office?
JO’D Just over £800 and then I started my pension April last year I’m a pensioner
as well and I have other businesses as well.
31.05 LA What other businesses do you have?
JO’D I breed pedigree cats.
31.20 JO’D said she has no other income although she does have a shop where she
sells greeting cards, and bags but sells these over the counter and does not
employ anyone else to do it.
32.10 JO’D said she only has one AA stock unit. She was informed that on the
16" December the cash was declared by JOD001 under stock unit AA, till 1
for an amount of £5210.64 then on the 17" December DODO01 did a cash
declaration under till 2 for £8,880.87 leading the Horizon system to believe
there was £14,091.51 on the system. JO’D was shown the schedule.
33.47 JL Then on the 18°" December we have another cash dec done so we’ve got.
JO’D You’ve got 1, 2 and then a 3 was done.
JL You have you’ve got JOD there’s a cash dec of £6,544.73 declared on till 1.
JO’D Yeah.
JL Nothing on till 2 but till 2 has still got recorded against it the £8,880 from
the previous day.
JO’D Yeah that’s right.
34.13 JL And on till 3 you’ve got £6,544.73 so the same amount in till 1 has been put
into till 3.
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JOD That’s right yeah.
JL So the system thinks it’s got 2 lots of 6,500 and the 8,800 which brings it up
to £21,970.
Jo’D Yeah.
34.32 JL Can you explain why these, what’s going on?
JOD As I said earlier on I’ve never been trained up on Horizon system I had 1
day in Bedford on a one to one basis and to tell you the truth all I can
remember of that training day was remming out the cheques on an evening,
we weren’t told how the system works or anything. On the 17" December.
LA When was this do you remember what year it was?
JO’D Oh goodness when we were going to change over to Horizon, I don’t know.
JL Could I just ask you to, ‘cos at the beginning of the interview when we said
about were you competent and how long you said you were, are you now
saying that maybe you’re not competent as a Sub-Postmistress or there are
areas of weakness?
JO’D I’m competent the Post Office Limited is completely incompetent.
JL Right ok. Right ok carry on.
JO’D Right so I wasn’t trained up on Horizon system properly I don’t know how it
works all I know is that there’s in’s and there’s out’s because I’ve done
basic book keeping right. On the 17" December, was 17 wasn’t it when
number 2 was done?
JL Yes by yourself.
35.49 JO’D My husband and I had the day off and we came into Cambridge to do some
Christmas shopping. Whenever we had a day off we’ve always tried to get
back to the office before 4 o’clock when it was closing. We got back, we
were down in the kitchen, the Post Office is at the other end of the house
(indistinct) my son came down and he said “I’ve done something wrong” so
I went down there I seen immediately what he had done because the screen
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was showing, oh I’ve forgotten the exact wording but you know when it
asks for your oh dear what does it ask for, sorry, 1 or 2 you know when you
do your declarations.
JL Right.
LA Your cash declaration.
JOD Or whatever declarations and you have to put in a number don’t you 1 or 2,
when you do your stamp declarations as well you have to put in number I or
number 2 don’t you?
LA T don’t know do you?
JO’D Anyway what he had done you press the button to go into cash declaration
and you got the screen saying make new declaration or 01 declaration and
you press the arrow down and you normally go into the 1 declaration, press
enter and that brings up your number I cash declaration. What he had done.
LA Sorry does that have the figures from the day before already on there?
37.21 JO’D Yes.
LA Right yeah.
JOo’D What he had done he hadn’t gone down to the number, well I’m just
assuming this.
LA Yeah.
JOD ‘Cos I wasn’t actually there. He had gone on to make new declaration.
LA Right.
JO’D Which he did right so of course when he pressed enter it had asked for, what
do they ask for, the number.
JL What a different number?
JOD Yes right ‘cos normally if you’ve done it under number 1 and you’ve
entered it all and you press that it just goes back to your screen doesn’t it?
LA Right does it tell you a discrepancy how much you’re out?
JO’D No no.
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LA It just prints.
JO’D No it doesn’t print oh no it doesn’t go back to your normally screen it goes
back to the print screen so you press F4 is it to print your thing.
LA So the top of the cash declaration you was originally doing you didn’t get a
variance check on it it didn’t tell you at that time how much you was out?
JOD No comment.
LA It basically just recorded the amount of money that you’ve entered is that
what you’re saying?
JO"D No.
LA Right.
38.32 JO’D It has gone to ask what number the declaration was.
LA Right.
JO’D And I said oh don’t worry about that just put number 2 in, I should have
said, no because you can’t get out of that screen you can’t escape or
anything so I said don’t worry just put number 2 in and he put number 2 in
and I said right you know that’s alright.
JL What you mean declared the cash on hand?
JO’D Yes so we'd got declaration 1 and 2 which I didn’t think was any problem at
all.
JL Right.
JO’D Right. He then locked up came down that was on the Thursday. On the
Friday I worked in there so we’re talking about the 18"?
JL Yeah.
JO’D Right so at the end of the day I did the cash declaration right on the 1.
JL The 6,544.73.
JO’D Right that was on number I and then J thought hold on a minute because it’
still down.
JL What do you mean still down?
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JOD Well I haven’t paid any attention to what cash declaration number 2 had
done so i then went into cash declaration number 2 opened it up, closed it
then did a discrepancy thing and it was showing up profit not a loss.
JL A gain?
40.02 JO’D A gain sorry so I thought well what’s going on here.
JL Sorry can I just and you were expecting to see a shortage of 7,000 were you?
JO’D Yes.
JL But you were seeing a gain?
JO’D A gain of whatever it was.
JL Can you remember what the gain was?
JO’D I haven’t got a clue I’ve written it down on the bits of paper all at home.
JL Right.
JO’D So I thought well this is really strange so I then did a cash declaration
number 3. Did it you know put in the monies all again.
JL The exact money.
JO’D Exact money because I’d printed out my cash declaration on the 1, just put it
all in and I thought well what on earth is going on. Sorry previous to this I
had spoken to and I’m sure it was Sue Muddeman had actually rung me
back ‘cos I had really created to the helpline about this ‘cos I was going mad
about it and I said I wanted to speak to my BDM because there’s something
going on and it was, and I’m sure Miss. Muddeman rang me back but I can’t
be absolutely certain and she said but you haven’t got a BDM and that was
the firs time, helpline never told me and I said “well why wasn’t I told this”
and she said “well why haven’t you been putting it into suspense account”
and I said “well ‘cos I’ve never been told about suspense account I’ve just
been told by the helpline I had to make it good and that was the first time”.
Thad told her it was the, I had been telling them that it was the system was
wrong and is that the letter that I wrote.
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JL 21% December.
JO’D Because I thought that that proved it was the system ,I didn’t understand the
system because I’ve never been taught what the system how it worked and
that’s why I thought that’s my letter to her.
JL T’ll read that letter out just for the benefit of the tape.
JO’D Yeah that’s fine.
42.03 JL It’s your letter of the 21‘! December to Mrs. Miss. Muddeman.
JO’D Yeah.
JL Regarding my messages indicating that the above Post Office is losing
approximately 1,000 a month by 16 December 2009 it showed a loss of
£8,506.00. I couldn’t prove that it was the horizon equipment’s fault. On
the 17" December 2009 my son declared cash and it came up as over 5,000
gain. Today 21‘ December 2009 I took a look at the discrepancy without
doing a cash declaration it showed a 7,000 odd gain, therefore maybe this
will continue, convince you that it is horizon equipment’s fault.
JO’D Yeah.
JL And you signed that letter.
JO’D Yes that’s right.
43.00 JO’D states she told Miss. Muddeman that because she didn’t understand the
system she made a third declaration on the Friday and by the Monday she
was trying to work out what was going on and made a 34, 4" and Sth
declaration.
43.40 JL So what did you think when you made?
JO’D T have no idea what I thought I thought that it showed that machinery was
wrong.
JL I don’t understand why you kept re-entering the cash on the different, I can’t
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understand that?
JO’D No because you understand how the system works, I have no idea how the
system works. I am trying to, I haven’t taken the money as far as I know my
son hasn’t taken the money. I am saying that the machinery is wrong, I’m
clutching at straws here because that shows up that and I’m thinking hey
that proves that the machinery’s wrong because I’m going from one day
from a loss to another day to a gain but I don’t know how that works
because I’ve never been told.
Master tape seal signed on number 060370
Interview terminated at 11.37
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