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From: Parsons, Andrew},
Sent: Wed 16/11/2016 8:14:23 PM (UTC)
To: Rodric Williams.
Subject: RE: Legally Privileged - Further Enquiry on Horizon Errors from Anobody [BD-4A.FID26896945]
Attachment: _DOC_34352409(1)_BAU response.DOCX
Rodric
Apologies — got tied up on the Freeths letter.
Draft BAU response attached. I've gone for a very soft tone. Although I'm 99% sure this is a fictional case, we just
can't take the risk.
I've not made any express reference to the KEL. Even the phrase "known error" could set hares racing so I've avoided
it entirely. I hope however the key message ("cart before horse") still comes across.
Kind regards
Andy
From: Rodric Williams {
Sent: 16 November 2016 19:16
To: Parsons, Andrew
Subject: FW: Legally Privileged - Further Enquiry on Horizon Errors from Anobody
Maybe something for Jonny to draft if you’re not able?
From: Rodric Williams
Sent: 16 November 2016 19:16
To: Angela Van-Den-Bogerd
Cc: FOITEAM; Parsons, Andrew
Subject: RE: Legally Privileged - Further Enquiry on Horizon Errors from Anobody
Hi Angela — I do not think this is a genuine request. It has all the hallmarks of Tim McCormack mischief, and indeed
these FOIA requests were recently cited in a blog which thanked Mr McCormack “for his work and help in relation to
the Horizon system”.
Nevertheless, we need to respond prudently, which I think we can do as follows:
1. I would use the FOIA response as drafted, concluding the letter as follows:
We deal with requests that do not fall under the FOIA through standard business enquiry
processes ra her than a formal request for information;thereferein-answerte-your
. You will therefore receive a response from the relevant Post
Office busines it directly.
2. In terms of the BAU response, the point we want to get across is that asking for the Known Error Log to try to
identify whether anything in it impacted a branch’s accounts is to put the cart before the horse.
The KEL is a substantial electronic record, very little of which will have any bearing on an individual branch’s
accounts, and none of which (Fujitsu tells us) has ever affected the Core Audit Log, i.e. the record of
transactions as entered by the branch.
The PMR however is in the branch looking at his accounts all the time, and even if he can’t tell precisely what
has gone wrong (though Kath and Shirley’s guidance will help), he must at least know when things started to
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go awry.
Without even that most basic of information from the PMR, asking for the KEL is a bit like asking Sainsbury’s
for a list of all prices ever charged for all products to work out why he’s spent more on his weekly shop, when
really he should start by looking at what he’s put in his basket.
Given that that is not the greatest analogy, but more importantly how central this allocation and sequencing
of responsibility for branch account anomalies is in the Freeths litigation (where we should assume this will
end up), I have asked Bond Dickinson (Andy Parsons cc’ed) to draft something setting this out, which we can
then dovetail with Kath and Shirley’s guidance for them to send.
3. On the false accounting point, it is in PMR’s interest (and arguably also his duty) to raise with us anomalies in
his branch accounts. If he has instead acted in a way which he is concerned gives rise to criminal liability, he
should seek independent legal advice.
I hope that helps. Please let me know if you would like to discuss.
Kind regards, Rod
From: Angela Van-Den-Bogerd
Sent: 14 November 2016 20:13
To: Rodric Williams
Cc: FOITEAM
Subject: FW: Legally Privileged - Further Enquiry on Horizon Errors from Anobody
Importance: High
Rodric,
Could you respond to me email of 3" November so that we can formally respond to the follow up request from this
postmaster.
Thanks,
Angela
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This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. Any unauthorised review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
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From: FOITEAM
Sent: 14 November 2016 17:33
To: Angela Van-Den-Bogerd <. GRO }
Subject: FW: Legally Privileged - Further Enquiry on Horizon Errors from Anobody
Importance: High
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Hi Angela,
Do you have the response ready you were working on in relation to this request?
Many thanks,
° Kerry Moodie
Information Rights Manager
1* Floor
Finsbury Dials
20 Finsbury Street
London EC2Y 9AQ
From: Angela Van-Den-Bogerd
Sent: 03 November 2016 08:30
To: Rodric Williams; Patrick Bourke; Melanie Corfield; Mark R Davies
Cc: FOITEAM
Subject: Legally Privileged - Further Enquiry on Horizon Errors from Anobody
Importance: High
Rod,
This postmaster clearly thinks that the answer to their problem is in this list of errors and in all likelihood is therefore
not looking/or does not know how to look for any discrepancies in branch. I really want to try and help this
postmaster but clearly we cannot say that we will not address what they have confirmed to us ie that they have
falsified their account.
My preference would be to explain to this postmaster what the errors to which he refers are and that if these were
affecting his branch we would be able to identify that. And as per my request to Shirley below offer some guidance on
how to look for discrepancies and accounting irregularities and importantly how to control the balancing of their
branch.
On the false accounting point could we say something along the lines of “each case is treated on its merit and
therefore we could not say until we were aware of the facts of the situation what action if any would be taken
contractually or legally. But it could be possible that an error or errors within the branch could have contributed to
any loss and there is a possibility that with proper scrutiny of the Horizon data we could establish what had happened
in branch”
What’s your view?
Patrick, Mel, Mark — any thoughts welcome.
Thanks,
Angela
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Confidential Information:
This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. Any unauthorised review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient please contact me by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
From: Angela Van-Den-Bogerd
Sent: 03 November 2016 08:07
To: Shirley Hailstones < GRO j
Subject: FW: Further Enquiry on Horizon Errors from Anobody
Importance: High
Shirley
Would you pull some pointers together for me to send to this postmaster. I have no idea what the size of this loss is or
over what period it has built up but in the absence of them talking to us I want to offer some guidance on how to look
for discrepancies and perhaps staff theft/manipulation of transactions. Also guidance on how to run a tight ship eg
accurate cash declarations; weekly balancing etc. I know you'll get my drift.
Could you do this today please as this postmaster is sounding desperate and making references to taking their own
life.
Thanks,
Angela
Confidential Information:
This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. Any unauthorised review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient please contact me by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
From: FOITEAM
Sent: 01 November 2016 11:01
To: Angela Van-Den-Bogerd ‘ GRO >; Melanie Corfield
i GRO p Mark R Davies; GRO } Patrick Bourke
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urther Enquiry on Horizon Errors from Anobody
Importance: High
Good Morning All,
Please see the reply received from Mr Obody below.
In light of the Court Action I think legal should draft the response to this, we have provided the 'anonymous' person
options to resolve the alleged issue pursue and cannot do much else in this public arena and advised what they
should do if they want an internal review.
I think the response should be based on the fact that this is not a request for recorded information and whatever
context are felt to be required — therefore I have attached the basic response to this for amendment.
I will acknowledge the request and await further instructions.
Regards,
Kerry Moodie
Information Rights Manager
1* Floor
Finsbury Dials
20 Finsbury Street
London EC2Y 94Q
Dear Post Office Limited,
I thought i sent a reply to you but it doesn't seem to have got through.
I cannot talk to anyone about this because I have signed off my branch accounts with the wrong figures and I can go to
prison for doing that. I haven't taken any money. I want to know what errors to look for. I read all this talk about
errors in horizon on the internet I want to know what they are. YOu say you have that information but you won't give
me it so what is my alternative. I don't have that sort of money to give to you. Will you prosecute me for my
accounts if I talk to mrs Bogard? Please tell me, surely you have to tell me what these errors are?
Yours faithfully,
A.N. Obody
Is foial GRO the wrong address for Freedom of Information requests to Post Office Limited? If so, please
contact us using this form:
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