POL00417098 - Email Tracy Abberstein on behalf of David Y Smith to Mike Granville,Martin Humphreys, Lesley J Sewell cc Mike Young re FE Justice for SPMS

Evidence on official site

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Mike Granville

From: Tracy Abberstein on behalf of David Y Smith

Sent: 21 July 2010 11:31

To: Mike Granville; Martin Humphreys; Lesley J Sewell
Ce: Mike Young

Subject: FW: Justice for spms

Attachments: Bates Justice for Spms July 2010.pdf; Randerson Horizon problems.pdf; Simpson
Horizon.pdf; Patel Horizon.pdf; Patel Priti 388 how many times had discussions with POL on
Horizon in last 5 years.rtf; Patel Priti 389 if will review effectiveness of Horizon system.rtf;
Patel Priti 390 what representations has received from Justice for Spms Alliance.rtf; Patel Priti
696 cost to subpostmasters of errors in Horizon system.rtf

All,
Mike Granville will liaise with you both to prepare a brief for Oliver to give the reassurance required!.

Regards
TRAcy

Tracy Abberstein

PA to David Smith, Managing Director
Post Office Ltd

148 Old Street, LONDON, EC1V SHO

From: Griffiths Oliver (ShEx) [mailt
Sent: 21 July 2010 10:21

To: David Y Smith

Cc: Whitehead Mike (ShEx)
Subject: Justice for spms

Dave

As we discussed briefly on Monday evening, there has been recent interest from MPs in
purported cases where the Horizon system has left sub postmasters out of pocket. We

have to date said that this is an operational matter for POL and resisted calls to impose

areview of Horizon etc. We are in theory happy to continue holding this line - but if we

do so and it turns out that there have been problems with Horizon, then there will be

.. significant political heat. Grateful therefore if you could let me know how confident POL
is that there is nothing behind these claims.

thanks

Oliver

<<Bates Justice for Spms July 2010.pdf>> <<Randerson Horizon problems.pdf>> <<Simpson
Horizon.pdf>> <<Patel Horizon.pdf>> <<Patel Priti 388 how many times had discussions with POL on
Horizon in last 5 years.rtf>> <<Patel Priti 389 if will review effectiveness of Horizon system.rtf>> <<Patel
Priti 390 what representations has received from Justice for Spms Alliance.rtf>> <<Patel Priti 696 cost to
subpostmasters of errors in Horizon system.rtf>>

30/07/2010

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Justice for spms

Page 2 of 2

Oliver GriffithsI Deputy Director I Shareholder ExecutiveI Department for Business, Innovation &
Skill: “I 1 Victoria Street, London SW1A OETI Direct Lins

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purposes.

Wor oR

30/07/2010

KEITH SIMPSON MP
BROADLAND
S HOUSE OF COMMONS
, LONDON SW1A 0AA
E-mail:
Website: www.keithsimpson.com
lward Davey Esq MP

Department for Business, Innovation and Skills
1 Victoria Street
Lehdon SW1

7 Juine 2010

I gnelose a copy of a letter which I have received from a constituent
Margaret Callow.

I would be grateful if you could look into the points raised by my
constituent and report back to me.

. a , Working for Broadland

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=

stephenandmarg:

The Rt Hon Keith Simpson,
House of Commons,
London

SW1A 0AA

June 4" 2010.
Dear Mr Simpson,

First of all, may I congratulate you on your recent success in the General
Election.

On 3 March I wrote to you on behalf of my daughter and her treatment along
with others at the hands of the Post Office.

I realise your help and support in this matter will have been delayed due to the
Election and that is quite understandable. However, I now approach you again
as this is a problem that will not go away. _
We now have a copy of a recent letter sent to Alan Bates
Edward Davey MP, new Minister for postal affairs (BIS) in’
Mr Davey is neither interested nor helpful.

Whilst he prefers to distance himself behind such a reply, I respectfully
suggest that all the Ministers in Government are there to represent us and
best help us. Therefore it is to be hoped that matters will be taken up on our
behalf.

As the Government holds 100% shares in the Post Office, this means we the
public own them so the validity of Mr Davey’s reply is questionable. Therefore,
I would hope you could speak to Mr Davey or his department to ask him to
look at this issue again.

It may well be that you would prefer to communicate with my daughter directly
so her address is as follows:

by
Clearly

‘Mrs Slobhan Saver.

Thank you for your help.
Yours sincerely,

Sra.

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Department for Business
Innovation & Skills

BIS

Edward Davey MP
Minister tor Employment Relations.
Consumer and Postal Affairs.

Alan Bates Our ref, : 201658
Jus

Sear Ben ket
\

Thank you for your letter of 20 May, requesting a meeting to discuss the Post
Office Horizon system. . .

Since 2001, when the Royal Mail (which includes Post Office Ltd (POL)) was
set up as a public limited company with the Government as its only shareholder,
Government has adopted an arm's length relationship with the company so that
it has the commercial freedom to run its business operations without
interference from the shareholder.

The integrity of the Post Office Horizon system is an operational and contractual
matter for POL and not Government, whilst I do appreciate your concerns and
those of the Alliance members, I do not believe a meeting would serve any
useful purpose.

sheer

EDWARD DAVEY

1 Victoria Steet, London SW1H OET
www.bis.gov.uk

II Contact vs www.bis.gov.uk/contact-us.

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BIS

Department for Business
Innovation & Skills

Edward Davey MP
Minister for Employment Relations.
‘Consumer and Postal Affairs

Alan Bates Our ref: : 201658

=! May 2010

Var Bean Gere t
\

Thank you for your letter of 20 May, requesting a meeting to discuss the Post
Office Horizon system. 7

Since 2001, when the Royal Mail-(which includes Post Office Lid (POL)) was
set up as a public limited company with the Government as its only shareholder,
Govemment has adopted an arm's length relationship with the company so that
it has the commercial freedom to run its business operations without
interference from the shareholder,

The integrity of the Post Office Horizon system is an operational and contractual
matter for POL and not Government, whilst I do appreciate your concerns and
those of the Alliance members, I do not believe a meeting would serve any
useful purpose. .

EDWARD DAVEY

1 Victoria Street, London SW1H OET
www.bis.gov.uk

Enquiries {7

7} ] Minicome”

I Contect us www.bis.gov.uk/contact-us

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A

HOUSE OF COMMONS
LONDON SWI1A 0AA

19" May 2010 Our ref PP/INS/BIS1

df

Ihave been c

Enero]
q

tntA,

mntacted by a constituent who runs a local sub-post office who has

enquired as tq
My constituer

the election

‘which Minister will have responsibility for the Post Office.
it has quite a setious issue with the Horizon system, which as you are

previous Shadow Minister was willing to arrange a meeting to discuss

aware is ont platform which post offices use to conduct their transactions. Prior to

this issue, anc
once they are

Took forwar.

'T wondered whether something could be set up with the new Minister
situ? :

to hearing from you.

Priti Patel

A

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I

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House of Commons Parliamentary Question : 2010/390
Written
Question Date for 5 day target
tabled 17/06/2010 I teturntoParly I 24/06/2010 24/06/2010
Action officer’ I SHE Briefing/ Copies to:
division SHE
Question from : Priti Patel (Witham - CON)

Minister answering: Edward Davey

To ask the Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, what
representations he has received from the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance in the

last 12 months; if he will meet representatives of the Alliance to discuss the Post

Question

Office's Horizon system; and if he will make a statement. (3752)

Given Post Office Ltd’s responsibility for negotiating contractual terms and conditions with
Subpostmasters, I have asked David Smith, the Managing Director of Post Office Ltd, to
respond directly to the Hon Member and a copy of his reply will be placed in the House

Libraries.

Draft Answer

Action Officer

Rosemary Buck

Print Name
and extension

‘Approval
Oliver Griffiths

Must be GS or above

Ministerial Approval

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House of Commons Parliamentary Question: 2010/696
Written
Question Return to 5 day target
tabled 06/07/2010 I Parly by 08/07/2010 13/07/2010
Action officer! I ShE Briefing/ Copies to:
division SHE
Question from: Priti Patel (Witham - CON)

Minister answering: I Edward Davey

Question
To ask the Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, what
his most recent estimate is of the cost to postmasters and sub-postmasters of errors
in the Horizon operating system; and if he will make a statement. 7533

Draft Answer

I have asked David Smith, the Managing Director of Post Office Ltd, to respond directly to
the Hon Member and a copy of his reply will be placed in the House Libraries.

Action Officer Approval Ministerial Approval
I Rosemary Buck Oliver Griffiths
I GRO!
Print Name Must be GS or above
and extension

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House of Commons Parliamentary Question : 2010/389
Written
Question Date for 5 day target
tabled 17/06/2010 I returntoParly I 24/06/2010 24/06/2010
Action officer’ I ShE Briefing/ Copies to:
division SHE
Question from : Priti Patel (Witham - CON)

Minister answering: Edward Davey

Question
To ask the Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, if he
will review the effectiveness of the Post Office's Horizon system; and if he will report
his findings to the House. (3751)

Draft Answer

I have asked David Smith, the Managing Director of Post Office Ltd, to respond directly to
the Hon Member and a copy of his reply will be placed in the House Libraries.

Action Officer Approval Ministerial Approval

Rosemary Buck Oliver Griffiths

Print Name Must be G5 or above
and extension

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House of Commons Parliamentary Question: 2010/388
Written
Question Date for 5 day target
tabled 17/06/2010 I feturntoParly I = 24/06/2010 24/06/2010.
Action officer) I She Briefing/ Copies to:
division SHE
Question from: Priti Patel (Witham - CON)

Minister answering: Edward Davey

Question

To ask the Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, how
many times Ministers in his Department had discussions with Post Office Ltd on the

Horizon system in the last five years. (3750)

Draft Answer
The Horizon system is an operational responsibility of the company and I have had no
such discussions. It is an established convention that Minsters of one Administration
cannot see the documents of a previous Administration. I am therefore unable to provide

the information requested.

Action Officer Approval Ministerial Approval
Oliver Griffiths
Rosemary Buck
LGRO I
Print Name Must be G5 or above

and extension

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Cynulliad
Cenedlaetho!

Jenny Randerson AM veto

Assembly for
Wales

Ed Davey MP G

Minister for Employment Relations; Consumer and Postal Affairs
Ministerial Correspondence Unit

Department for Business, Innovation & Skills

1 Victoria Street

London SW1H 0ET

Our Ref: CE/National

Date: 12 July 2010

Dear I
POST OFFICE HORIZON ACCOUNTING PROBLEMS

As a former consultant in the postal services sector, I am sure you are only too well aware of
the accounting problems that have arisen from the Post Office Horizon computer system
which have resulted in postmasters and mistresses suffering financial losses and sometimes
even incurring criminal prosecutions because of unexplained discrepancies that have led to
financial shortfalls.

A former sub-postmistress living in my constituency experienced unaccountable shortages
amounting to a total of £36,000. She reported these to her line-manager and, following an
investigation, she was suspended and faced criminal charges of false accounting and was
ordered to pay £48,000, which was reduced to £35,000 and then further reduced to £25,000.

In March 2009, she received a “without prejudice” letter from Bond Pearce, a Limited
Liability Partnership. “For the sake of commercial expediency”, their client, the PO, offered
not to pursue her for the civil claim or pursue a criminal prosecution provided she did not
bring any claim against PO Ltd and that each party be: bear their own costs.

Towards the end of 2009, a number of falsely accused postmasters formed the Justice for
Sub-postmasters Alliance, with the common goal of publicising what they see as serious
flaws in the PO’s Horizon accounting system and I understand that it has already been the
subject of media interest in the form of an S4C documentary and victims are pressing for a
House of Commons debate on the issue. 1

Tam aware that the previous government built up an extremely poor IT record-and that it had
already entered into a contract with the Bank of Ireland to enable the PO to provide a range
of financial services subject to a 50/50 share of any profits from the joint banking venture, I
also understand that the last government also pledged to plough another £180m into the
network in the dying days of its administration, which may have implications for the
coalition government.

Contact Details:
Address: National Assembly for Wales, Cardiff Bay, Cardiff, CF99 INA

i normally allow staff ond authorised volunteerotsce

Whilst Jenny Randerson AMvill treat as confidential any persooal
information to agencies such as the DWP, the Inland Revenue or the local -

it if this is needed to help and advise you, The AM may pass on all or some of

‘Council if this is necessary to helpwith your case. Jenny Randerson AMmay wish to write toyou from time to time to keep you informed on issues which you
nau find nf inteenet Plone at her knows iFunu do nat with tn he enntarted fie thie nnmnce .

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iE
Jenny Randerson AM

However, Iam Sure you will agree that the apparent inadequacies of the Horizon Computer
system, and the injustices that it has caused, need immediate investigation and resolution and
Iwould welcome your advice as to the government’s intentions in this matter,

‘Yours sincerely.

GRO

Jenny Randerson AM
Welsh Liberal Democrat Assembly Member for Cardiff Central

Contact Details:
Address: National Assembly ‘for Wal
Telephone:

E-mail: j GRO. oar!
‘anderson. Anvil teat s condemn any persona ‘on, she will
Rif thisis needed to help and advise you, ‘The AM may pass on all or some at it ie
‘Council {Chis is neessarytohelpwith youre Je

"efi intra Bsn Sone

Cardiff, CF99 INA

Whilst Jenny k