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From: Batten Peter (ShEx)[/O=BIS PRODUCTION/OU=EXCHANGE ADMINISTRATIVE GROUP.
(FYDIBOHF23SPDLT)/CN=RECIPIENTS/CN=15881F 12D7 16457BB67245288269A7E2-
PBATTEN]
Sent: Tue 09/12/2014 12:20:21 PM (UTC)
To: Ministerial Advice Tea
Ce: Swinson MPSTE. SPAD Cable
istina
Fletcher Joanna
lamilton Alexander
Subject:
Hi Nick, cc Alysa
It is a technical area — it’s very important to ensure that if questioned the DPM is clear that this is an independent
matter and the Govt has no involvement. We briefed Jo on the matter earlier, and she seemed to be content with the
approach we are adopting. Alysa has suggested the below revised lines that are factually accurate and shorter. I
would be keen the DPM be sighted on the longer original lines as they provide useful short background information to
this complex matter that has a long history attached to it. It is important that any answer given avoids giving the
inference that Govt has any locus or involvement or could play any role in this matter.
Accusation: I More than 140 MPs have criticised the Post Office, saying they've lost faith in its handling of
complaints against sub-postmasters wrongly accused of fraud. The MPs have withdrawn their
support for a mediation scheme.
Response: Forensic accountants have found no evidence of systemic issues with POL’s IT system
The Post Office, the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance and the forensic accountants have set up a
working group to consider cases submitted by concerned subpostmasters
This Working Group is independent of Government. Government should not interfere with the
working group’s process.
Background information
An independent report has found that there is no evidence of systemic problems with the Post Office’s Horizon
software. Further detailed case-by-case investigations support this.
The mediation scheme is overseen by an independent Working Group and is considering cases submitted by
concerned former subpostmasters. The Post Office and the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance’ are both members of
this Working Group which is chaired by a former Court of Appeal judge.
This Working Group which was jointly designed by the Post Office and the ‘Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance’ is
independent of Government, and it is very important that the Working Group be allowed to complete their work in
this very sensitive area free from external interference and speculation.
Many thanks
Peter
From: James Nick (MPST MIN) On Behalf Of Ministerial Advice Team
Sent: 09 December 2014 12:06
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To: Batten Peter (ShEx); Ministerial Advice Team
Cc: Swinson MPST; SPAD Cable MPST; Murphy Christina (Communications); Fletcher Joanna (Communications);
Hamilton Alexander (Communications); Baugh James (ShEx); Callard Richard (ShEx); McInnes Tim (ShEx)
Subject: RE: DPMQs - Post Office mediation scheme [UNCLASSIFIED]
Peter apologies, No.10 have come back with this.
Thanks. The language here is very technical and not something that the DPM could use.
Can you simplify please and clear with Jo Swinson’s office so we can let the DPM know she is content.
From: Batten Peter (ShEx)
Sent: 09 December 2014 11:32
To: Ministerial Advice Team
Cc: Swinson MPST; SPAD Cable MPST; Murphy Christina (Communications); Fletcher Joanna (Communications);
Hamilton Alexander (Communications); Baugh James (ShEx); Callard Richard (ShEx); McInnes Tim (ShEx)
Subject: RE: DPMQs - Post Office mediation scheme [UNCLASSIFIED]
Hi Nick
Suggested response for DPMQs:
Accusation: I More than 140 MPs have criticised the Post Office, saying they've lost faith in its handling of
complaints against sub-postmasters wrongly accused of fraud. The MPs have withdrawn their
support for a mediation scheme.
Response: A report produced by independent forensic accountants published in July 2013 found that there is
“no evidence of system-wide problems with the [Post Office’s] Horizon software” and further
detailed investigations have supported that finding.
The Post Office, working with the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance and the independent forensic
accountants have established a Working Group chaired by a former Court of Appeal judge to
consider the cases submitted by concerned former-subpostmasters.
This Working Group is independent of Government and it is very important that the members of the
Working Group be allowed to complete their work in this very sensitive area free from external
interference and speculation.
It’s a little longer than the suggested five lines, but probably needs to be given the obvious history to this. Needless to
say, the accusation is without merit and has been designed with headlines in mind.
Please let me know if further briefing or lines are required.
Kind regards
Peter
From: James Nick (MPST MIN) On Behalf Of Ministerial Advice Team
Sent: 09 December 2014 11:07
To: Batten Peter (ShEx)
Subject: FW: DPMQs - Post Office mediation scheme [UNCLASSIFIED]
Peter,
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They've just sent this, don’t know if it’s of any use to you.
N
Sent: 09 December 2014 11:04
To: Ministerial Advice Team
Cc: Questions
Subject: RE: DPMQs - Post Office mediation scheme [UNCLASSIFIED]
Attached is a brief we had on this last year which could be used as a start for a script.
Jo Swinson also made a statement on this on 9 July 2013:
http://www. publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm130709/debtext/130709-
0002.htm#13070952000004
Sent: 09 December 2014 10:22
To: ministerialadviceteam
Cc: Questions
Subject: DPMQs - Post Office mediation scheme [UNCLASSIFIED]
Can we have a short brief 4-5 lines max. on the below please, which was running on the Today Programme this
morning as below.
Attack: More than 140 MPs have criticised the Post Office, saying they've lost faith in its handling of complaints
against sub-postmasters wrongly accused of fraud. The MPs have withdrawn their support for a mediation scheme.
Media
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30387973
MPs have criticised the Post Office, saying they've lost faith in its handling of complaints against sub-postmasters wrongly
accused of fraud (R4 0703).
Matt Prodger: Sub-postmasters in 142 constituencies have said new computer software has led to cash shortfalls that they're
being held responsible for. As a result, many have lost their livelihoods and even served prison sentences. MPs say they'll no
longer support a mediation scheme set up by the Post Office to handle the complaints. MPs accuse the PO of objecting to
most of the applications (R4 0703). What was the PO supposed to be doing about these complaints? After claims from sub-
postmasters that the computer system was faulty, the PO set up a team of independent investigators, who established there
were some defects in the system. MPs say the PO hasn't acted in good faith and it's rejecting far too many applications from
sub-postmasters for mediation. Do the sub-postmasters still stand accused of defrauding the PO? Many are guilty of false
accounting, but when you ask them why they admitted that, they say it's because the only way they can open their PO for
business is to sign off the books each night. They say computers were showing shortfalls that weren't there (Tdy 0633).
Jo Hamilton, former sub-postmaster: In December 2003, I had a discrepancy of minus £2000. I phoned the helpdesk and
the amount then doubled. They asked me to pay the money into the Post Office, which I didn't have, and then they decided to
take the money from my wages over the next ten months. If I didn't plead guilty, they would have charged me with theft. They
couldn't prove what I did and said I was the only one who had a problem with the system. They never made any attempt to
investigate what happened to the money (Tdy 0733 clip).
James Arbuthnot MP: A mediation scheme was set up at considerable public expense, but they are now trying to sabotage
that and bar 90% of the sub-postmasters from the mediation. They say those who already made a guilty plea should not have
that mediation available to them. I have no confidence the Post Office is trying to clear this up. The Post Office has bound
people to secrecy and is doing all it can to override recommendations from Second Sight. The investigation isn't over yet?
Since this is in the hands of the Post Office, I have lost faith in the Post Office's determination to see this through tot he bitter
end. One single miscarriage of justice must galvanise the nation. This is not a small problem (Tdy 0735 i/v).
Mark Davies, Post Office: We reject outright claims that we sabotaged the system. We take our responsibilities very strong.
The Horizon system is used by about 80,000 people every day. A very small number of people came to us with questions and
issues with the system. It amounts to 0.03% of those who used the system. That's 150 people? The scheme hasn't finished
yet. Our review has found no evidence of systemic problems. We set up the complete and mediation scheme for the 150
people who came forward. Many people are in desperate trouble and have a case? I'm very sorry if people are facing lifestyle
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problems from working in Post Office branches. We will look at all of the cases. The working group and Post Office are bound
by confidentiality. How many people have been barred? I can't go into that. So it could be 90%? I don't agree with that. We're
in an extremely difficult position. No cases have been rejected? I'm not saying that. In some cases, we've said we could have
done things differently, but in others we haven't reached that conclusion (Tdy 0738 i/v).
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