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From: Thompson Laura (Shareholder Executive)[/O=BIS PRODUCTION/OU=EXCHANGE
ADMINISTRATIVE GROUP
(FYDIBOHF23SPDLT)/CN=RECIPIENTS/CN=73D8709345C441479FOD7E2ADCE207C9-
LATHOMPS]
Sent: Fri 24/07/2015 4:14:04 PM (UTC)
To: Callard Richard (ShEx)f.
Subject: FW: Second Sight's Briefing Report - Part Two
Laura Thompson I Assistant Director I Shareholder Executive
From: Thompson Laura (Shareholder Executive)
Sent: 24 July 2015 14:37
To: Neville-Rolfe MPST
Cc: SpAd Javid MPST; Freeman MPST; ‘O'Driscoll, Katie’
RE: Second Sight's Briefing Report - Part Two
ity: Private
Andrew cc. Katie, Rob
As discussed, please see my comments on this email from Second Sight to George Freeman, forwarded to your
Minister by Andrew Bridgen MP. I would appreciate it if the Minister could see these alongside the email from Mr
Bridgen. I am copying to Nick King’s office as I understand he will be attending the meeting with the Minister next
week to discuss next steps.
1. Ron Warmington, Managing Director of Second Sight, has emailed George Freeman MP regarding Second Sight’s
reports into the Post Office Horizon system. Mr Warmington states that he disagrees with the summary that
Second Sight’s reports demonstrate no evidence of systemic flaws within the Horizon system which could cause
the issues reported by applicants to Post Office’s mediation scheme. Mr Warmington directs the Minister to
several paragraphs in Second Sight’s final report which he feels demonstrates that Horizon, in the totality of the
user experience, is flawed.
2. While Second Sight’s report was never designed to be published, it was nevertheless leaked after it had been sent
to applicants. The last Government, following the previous BIS Select Committee’s recommendation, agreed to
receive a copy of the report from Post Office. This was provided in April, along with Post Office’s response to the
report which they published to correct factual errors and inaccuracies. Officials have seen both of these
documents.
3. Firstly, I would emphasise that our position is not to arbitrate in this matter — it is a commercial matter for the
Post Office. As shareholder, we expect Post Office to operate commercially and to handle operational and legal
matters such as this one without Government intervention, which would be unnecessary and inappropriate. As
you are aware, Post Office has a dedicated team working on this and the Board (on which we are represented)
also provides scrutiny on this matter. POL’s General Counsel, who joined in January this year, has reviewed the
situation with a fresh pair of eyes and is content that POL’s position is correct.
4, Following Mr Warmington’s email, we have looked again at the paragraphs he has highlighted in Second Sight’s
report. The statement that “there is no evidence of systemic flaws within the Horizon system” remains correct.
This is a position we have stated repeatedly, including in Parliament, so it is unclear why Second Sight are
choosing to raise this now. We are happy to provide further detail on the specific points raised if Ministers
require.
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5. If Government were to opine this matter, in general or in respect of particular cases ,it would be right for us to
seek independent advice. Our strong recommendation remains that Government intervention is neither
necessary, proportionate or appropriate.
6. If, as Second Sight and other parties (including Andrew Bridgen) claim, there is evidence of fault in the system,
then this evidence will be available to applicants and to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. Any applicant to
the scheme will have received the reinvestigation report from Post Office and the individual review of their case
by Second Sight, and they are free to pursue any avenues available to them including a civil claim, an appeal of
their conviction, or submitting their case to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. These claims are a matter of
law and it is not the role of Government to intervene — nor indeed does Government have the locus to do so.
7. Mr Warmington’s email states that in providing a copy of his report to the Minister, he is not breaching Second
Sight’s confidentiality agreement. We trust this is correct, although we have not seen Second Sight’s
confidentiality agreement with Post Office. However the fact that Second Sight, an independent adviser, have
chosen to engage with (among others) Parliamentarians and Ministers directly, without informing Post Office,
gives cause for concern. For these reasons we would recommend making Post Office aware of this matter. It is
worth noting that, even if in these present circumstances Second Sight are acting within their confidentiality
agreement, Second Sight have previously breached the agreement on more than one occasion.
8. Finally, to address Mr Bridgen’s point in his email that other applicants to the mediation scheme have felt
“insulted” — while they may feel this way, I would note that mediation is not led by Post Office. In line with best
practice, mediations have been facilitated by independent, trained and experienced mediators from the Centre
for Effective Dispute Resolution.
9, We have some time available on Wednesday to discuss this issue and the next steps for Government. As part of
this we should consider if and how the Government should respond to Mr Warmington’s email.
Thanks
Laura
Laura Thompson I Assistant Director I Shareholder Executive
From: Neville-Rolfe MPST
Sent: 24 July 2015 10:57
To: Thompson Laura (Shareholder Executive)
Cc: Neville-Rolfe MPST
Subject: FW: Second Sight's Briefing Report - Part Two
Sensitivity: Private
Laura,
As discussed — please find attached the e-mail from Andrew Bridgen.
Kind regards
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poe Andrew Smith
(a) Private Secretary to Baroness Neville-Rolfe, Parliamentary Under
Secretary of State and Minister for Intellectual Property
Department I mpst.neville-
for Business rol
Innovation & Skills Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, 1 Victoria Street, SW1H
OET
www.gov.uk/bis I @bisgovuk I blogs.bis.gov.uk
BIS I Connecting people to opportunity and prosperity
Please note: in line with Cabinet Office guidance MPST does not keep records of Ministerial business. Responsibility for storing
records sits with the relevant departmental team. Please ensure you are familiar with what records you need to be keeping and
are storing them appropriately.
From: BRIDGEN, Andrew jo
Sent: 24 July 2015 09:56
To: Neville-Rolfe MPST
Subject: FW: Second Sight's Briefing Report - Part Two
Sensitivity: Private
Dear Andrew,
Can you please see that the e-mail below reaches the Minister as it contradicts statements by the Post Office. I have
spoken to my constituent about the mediation however he has chosen to decline this again as he has spoken to
colleagues taking part who felt they were insulted throughout the process.
Kind Regards,
Andrew
From: Ron Warmington [
Sent: Wednesday, July
To: 'george.freeman.mpi
Subject: Second Sight's Briefing Report - Part Two
: Private
Dear Mr Freeman:
I am puzzled, and not a little distressed, by your summarisation, in your recent
email to Mr Ian Warren, and more importantly in Parliament, of my firm's
Interim and Part Two Reports (there were, in fact, three Reports). You have
summarised our Reports with the following words: "Second Sight have produced
two independent reports, in 2013 and 2015, both of which demonstrate that
there is no evidence of systemic flaws within the Horizon system which could
cause the issues reported". That is NOT a correct statement. I respectfully
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draw your attention to paragraphs 21.27 and 26.8 of our Report, and to the
following additional paragraphs:
9.3; 9.6; 9.12; 10.10; 11.8; 13.8; 21.3; 21.4; 21.8; 21.30; 21.31; and 22.10.
You may have noted, from reading our Reports, and also from Post Office's
Rebuttal Documents, that Post Office has continually focussed attention on the
system itself (i.e. ‘Horizon’, and its successor system, ‘Horizon Online’), and
even more narrowly on the software, rather than on the entirety of the
operational platform used by its Subpostmasters. It follows that even if there
had never been any systemic flaws in either version of the system (that being a
contention with which we do not agree), that would not mean that the operational
platform as a whole was always fit for purpose for all of the tens of thousands
of users. As we have stated in our Report, it was not.
T have attached here a copy of our Briefing Report - Part Two. In that copies of
this Report are already in the public domain, releasing a further copy to you does
not constitute a breach of our Confidentiality Agreement.
Iam available at any time, subject to the constraints imposed (by our
Confidentiality Agreements with Post Office) on my firm, myself and on my
colleagues individually, should you call for any clarification.
With best regards,
Ron Warmington CFE, FCA
Managing Director
Second Sight support Services Ltd
Tythe Farm
Maugersbury
Cheltenham
Gloucestershire
GL54 1HR
‘e: http:/Avww.2ndsight.eu
CONFIDENTIALITY: This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me at iw@_ GRO. jand delete the email and any attachments.
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