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From: "Parsons, Andrew" <
To: Rodric Williams <_
Ce: "Pheasant, Andrew" 4
4 GRO
Subject: RE: Bugs discussed in court cases
Date: Mon, I Jul 2013 15:49:10 +0100
Importance: Normal
Attachments: _DOC_4867137(1)_POL_Misra_Transcripts_Spreadsheet_Oct_2011.doc;
_MEMO_ 4867078(1) Memo_re_Misra_Transcripts.doc;
_DOC_4867304(1)_POL_Misra_Transcripts_Training October_2011.doc;
_DOC_4867274(1)_POL_Misra_Transcripts_Helpline.doc
Inline-Images: image002.jpg; image004.jpg; image006.jpg
P, "Matthews, Gavin"
Rodric
I think I've pinned down what happened with Misra.
This was a criminal case. We subsequently reviewed the transcripts of the criminal proceedings to identify anything
relevant to Horizon. I've attached:
1. Amemo of the key findings from Misra.
2. 3 tables with detailed cross-references to the Misra court transcripts identifying all the relevant material
We've returned the Misra papers to POL so can't dig any deeper than the attached documents. Having re-reviewed
these documents, I can't see anything that looks like the 14 Bug, the 62 Bug or the Falkirk Bug. However, it does
appear that the Misra case went through Horizon in detail.
Kind regards
Andy
Andrew Parsons
Senior Associate
for and on behalf of Bond Dickinson LLP
www.bonddickinson.com
From: Parsons, Andrew
Sent: 01 July 2013 15:28
To: 'Rodric Williams'
Cc: Pheasant, Andrew; Matthews, Gavin
Subject: RE: Bugs discussed in court cases
Rodric
Other than Castleton and Misra, we are not aware of any litigation that has involved an allegation of an actual bug in
Horizon.
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However, this is based on anecdotal discussions inside Bond Dickinson. Please bear in mind that we have handled
100s of cases over the last 5-10 years for POL so (absent a case by case review) it's impossible to say for certain that
no SPMR alleged a Horizon bug.
We are however confident that no case in the last 2 years has involved an allegation that there is a specific flaw in
Horizon. There are a number of cases handled by our paralegal team that have been put on hold because an SPMR
has alleged problems with Horizon. These cases are suspended pending the Second Sigh report. It may be that on
closer inspection these cases reveal a specific complaint about an error in Horizon however we would need to
undertake a deeper review of each case to determine this.
On Castleton:
I've spoken to the lawyer who conducted this litigation which took place in 2007.
The case was principally about accounting records — the Horizon challenges by Castleton were generally
uncoordinated and piecemeal. It should be borne in mind that Castleton was unrepresented so there was no logical
attack on Horizon.
However, at para 23 of the Judgement (see attached), there is reference to an “error in Horizon" at a branch in Falkirk.
I presume this is the "Falkirk Bug". The Court concluded that the Falkirk Bug did not affect Castleton:
“Mr. Castleton cross-examined her [Mrs Chambers from Fujitsu] about complaints from another branch, which he did
not identify. She immediately recognized the branch with confidence as being a branch at Callender Square in Falkirk.
The problem at Callender Square had, she said, arisen from an error in the Horizon system, but there was no evidence
of such a thing at Mr. Castleton's branch. I found Mrs. Chambers to be a clear, knowledgeable and reliable witness,
and I accept her evidence."
I'm still looking into Misra and will report back soon.
Kind regards
Andy
Andrew Parsons
Senior Associate
for and on behalf of Bond Dickinson LLP
Follow Bond Dickinson:
www.bonddickinson.com
— Original Message-----
From: Rodric Williams [mailta
Sent: 01 July 2013 14:42
To: Matthews, Gavin
Cc: Pheasant, Andrew; Parsons, Andrew
Subject: RE: Bugs discussed in court cases
Hi - is someone able to come back to me on this please?
Thanks, Rodric
Original Messag
From: Rodric Williams
Sent: 30 June 2013 15:10...
To: 'Gavin.Matthews!
Cc: 'Andrew.Pheasa
Subject: Fw: Bugs discussed in court cases
Gavin,
Can you please find out whether bugs in the Horizon system have ever been specifically discussed in any proceedings
your firm has run for Post Office Ltd. This would include the Agent Debt cases you handle.
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Thanks, Rodric
— Original Message -----
From: Simon Baker
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 05:55 PM
To: Rodric Williams
Cc: Lesley J Sewell; Alwen Lyons; Hugh Flemington
Subject: Bugs discussed in court cases
Rod
It would be helpful if we can show that horizon bugs were discussed openly in our court cases.
We know that the falkirk bug was discussed in the Misra case, can you find out if there are any other examples where
bugs have been discussed in court.
I would appreciate if you treat this as a priority. We need the answer by 3pm Monday.
Simon
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