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From: "Parsons, Andrew!"
To: Rodric Williams 4
Subject: RE: Strictly Private & Confidential - Subject to Pri
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 14:42:03 +0000
Importance: Normal
Attachments: DOC_28614498(1) Horizon_data.DOCX
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lege [BD-4A.FID20472253]
Rodric
First draft of the note attached — thoughts?
I've intentionally not referred to the "Winn/Lusher" email as it distracts from what is otherwise a very clear picture.
I suggest that you, me and FJ get the attached doc near to final form before we escalate to Angela, Chris and Belinda
for approval. It is probably then best that this document is sent by Angela to SS.
My hope is that this will hopefully put this matter to bed with SS and we will not need to escalate to the WG. However,
we'll not know that answer until we see the SS thematic report.
A
Andrew Parsons
Senior Associate
for and on behalf of Bond Dickinson LLP
www.bonddickinson.com
From: Rodric Williams ; GRO
Sent: 22 April 2014 12:28
To: Parsons, Andrew
Subject: RE: Strictly Private & Confidential - Subject to Privilege [BD-4A.FID20472253]
Sounds good — thanks. Do we cc Tony/Working Group?
Rodric Williams I Litigation Lawyer
148 Old Street, LONDON, EC1V 9H
©O®OGO®
@postofficenews
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From: Parsons, Andrew [I ____
Sent: 22 April 2014 12:27
To: Rodric Williams
Subject: RE: Strictly Private & Confidential - Subject to Privilege [BD-4A.FID20472253]
Rodric
I suggest that I draft this information into a formal response to go from POL to SS — do you agree?
Kind regards
Andy
Andrew Parsons
Senior Associate
for and on behalf of Bond Dickinson LLP
Direct: { !
Mobile: } '
Fax: i :
www.bonddickinson.com
From: Rodric Williams [i. _..GRO
Sent: 22 April 2014 12:04 ‘
To: Parsons, Andrew
Subject: FW: Strictly Private & Confidential - Subject to Privilege
Andy — please see FJ response to the questions we put to them on the “Andy Winn/Alan Lusher email”.
Where does this take us?
Kind regards, Rodric
Rodric Williams I Litigation Lawyer
a 4JA8.Qd.Steaat, LONDON, EC1V 9HQ
‘GRO.
©G®OGO®
@postofficenews
From: Davidson Jamesi_ GRO
Sent: 17 April 2014 16:27
To: Rodric Williams
Cc: Harvey Michael; Newsome Pete
Subject: RE: Strictly Private & Confidential - Subject to Privilege
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Rodric,
Please see Fujitsu’s response below.
Summary:
* — There is no ability to delete or change records a branch creates in either old Horizon or Horizon online.
Transactions in both systems are created in a secure and auditable way to assure integrity, and have either
a checksum (Old Horizon) or a digital signature (Horizon Online), are time stamped, have a unique
sequential number and are securely stored via the core audit process in the audit vault
e Whilst a facility exists to ‘inject’ additional transactions in the event of a system error, these transactions
would have a signature that is unique, sub-postmaster id’s are not used and the audit log would house a
record of these. As above, this does not delete or amend original transactions but creates a new and
additional transactions
e This facility is built into the system to enable corrections to be made if a system error / bug is identified
and the master database needs updating as a result, this is not a unique feature of Horizon
e — Approvals to ‘inject’ new transactions are governed by the change process, 2 factor authentications and a
‘four eyes’ process. A unique identifier is created and can be audited for this type of transaction within
HNGX, Horizon would require more extensive work to investigate as explained below.
1. Can Post Office change branch transaction data without a subpostmaster being aware of the change? No
2. Can Fujitsu change branch transaction data without a subpostmaster being aware of the change? Once
created, branch transaction data cannot be changed, only additional data can be inserted. If this is
required, the additional transactions would be visible on the trading statements but would not require
acknowledgement / approval by a sub-postmaster, the approval is given by Post Office via the change
process. In response to a previous query Fujitsu checked last year when this was done on Horizon Online
and we found only one occurrence in March 2010 which was early in the pilot for Horizon Online and was
covered by an appropriate change request from Post Office and an auditable log. For Old Horizon, a
detailed examination of archived data would have to be undertaken to look into this across the lifetime of
use. This would be a significant and complex exercise to undertake and discussed previously with Post
Office but discounted as too costly and impractical.
3. If not, where is the evidence for this conclusion? See Answer 2
4, If so:
a) How does this happen? See above
b) Why was this functionality built into the system design? To allow for data to be corrected if there
were any defects found in the system
c) Why would Fujitsu need to use this functionality? As above and under instructions from Post
Office Ltd.
d) What controls are in place to prevent the unauthorised use of this method of access? This is
achieved through a number of industry standard controls (RBAC, 2 factor authentication etc)
which are robustly audited under ISO 27001 / IAS 3402, Link, PCI.
e) When has branch data been accessed in this way in the past? See above
5. In relation to the Winn/Lusher email:
a) What is "message store" ?This is the repository (or database) where all transactions were written
to in the old Horizon system
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b)
c)
d)
e)
f)
Regards,
James Davidson
Post Office
Fujitsu
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Can this be used to access and change branch records? /t can be used to access the records. Data
cannot be changed, but new data could be inserted into it. Any such inserted data would be
tightly controlled by operational processes explained above.
What is the "impact" of this change on branch records? The impact would depend on exactly
what records were inserted.
Would the subpostmaster be aware of this change? Yes, via the trading statement but spm’s are
not required to approve the change, this is provided by Post Office.
Why would this method of access be used? To correct errors if a software defect is identified.
What controls are in place to prevent misuse of this method of access? As above.
fe)
Fujitsu is proud to partner with Shelter, the housing and homeless charity
Reshaping ICT, Reshaping Business in partnership with FT.com
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From: Rodric Williams [,___
Sent: 17 April 2014 15:25
To: Davidson James
Subject: RE: Strictly Private & Confidential - Subject to Privilege
Thanks James.
Pp
6
Izy
i ig tion Lawyer
©OOOGO®
148 Old Street, LONDON, ECIV 9HQ
Postline:
Post Office stories
@postofficenews
From: Davidson James [{ GRO, H
Sent: 17 April 2014 14:02
To: Rodric Williams
Subject: RE: Strictly Private & Confidential - Subject to Privilege
Rodric,
Just to update, I have a response in draft following a review the technical guys. I have passed this to legal for
review and expect this back this pm. Will advise as soon as I have the go ahead to release.
Regards,
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James Davidson
Post Office
Fujitsu
Lovelace Road, Bracknell, RG12 8SN
Fujitsu is proud to partner with Shelter, the housing and homeless charity
Reshaping ICT, Reshaping Business in partnership with FT.com
= Please consider the environment - do you really need to print this email?
From: Rodric Williams [} GRO I
Sent: 14 April 2014 15:59
To: Davidson James
Subject: Strictly Private & Confidential - Subject to Privilege
James,
Could Fujitsu please answer the questions below so that we can respond to a specific challenge put to us by
Second Sight in connection with a Mediation Scheme complaint, namely that:
"the Andy Winn/Alan Lusher email in the case of Ward [...] explicitly states that Fujitsu can remotely change the
figures in the branches without the SPMs’ knowledge or authority".
The Winn/Lusher email is attached. The part of the email in question is:
“Fujitsu have the ability to impact branch records via the message store but have extremely rigorous procedures in
place to prevent adjustments being made without prior authorisation - within POL and Fujitsu these controls form
the core of our court defence if we get to that stage.”
Questions:
6. Can Post Office change branch transaction data without a subpostmaster being aware of the change?
7. Can Fujitsu change branch transaction data without a subpostmaster being aware of the change?
8. If not, where is the evidence for this conclusion?
9. If so:
a) How does this happen?
b) Why was this functionality built into the system design?
c) Why would Fujitsu need to use this functionality?
d) What controls are in place to prevent the unauthorised use of this method of access?
e) When has branch data been accessed in this way in the past?
10. In relation to the Winn/Lusher email:
a) What is "message store"?
b) Can this be used to access and change branch records?
c) What is the "impact" of this change on branch records?
d) Would the subpostmaster be aware of this change?
e) Why would this method of access be used?
f) What controls are in place to prevent misuse of this method of access?
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Please let me know if it would be easier to address these in a phone call in the first instance.
Kind regards, Rodric
Rodric Williams I Litigation Lawyer
148 Old Street, LONDON, ECV 9HQ
5 Postline:
GRO,
Post Office stori
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@postofficenews
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