SCHEDULE 1
WBONO0001062
WBON0001062
No
Claimants’ Request for
Documents
Post Office Response
Claimants’ Current Position
Post Office Response
Contractual documents between
Post Office and the postmasters and
Crown officers since 1998.
Copies of the contracts and
variations will be provided as per
Schedule 5.
We await the documents you agree
to provide, and have no further
request at this stage.
Documents were provided on 31 August
2016.
Contractual documents between
Post Office and ICL/Fujitsu from
1999 to present.
A redacted version (removing
commercially sensitive data) of the
latest version of the core
agreement and relevant schedules
will be provided as per Schedule 6.
We await the documents you agree
to provide, and have no further
request at this stage.
Documents were provided on 31 August
2016.
Documents containing or referring to
non-contractual understandings,
practices, policies, guidance or
memoranda relating to the
relationship Post Office and
ICL/Fujitsu and/or ICL/Fujitsu's
performance.
In circumstances where you have.
not particularised any factual basis
on which Horizon is defective,
disclosure of these documents (if
they exist) is not relevant,
reasonable or proportionate.
In any event, the volume of
documents that may need to be
considered in order to respond to
this vague and highly generalised
request would be significant.
These documents will also not be
located in one place. A full
disclosure exercise would be
required to locate these
documents.
See covering letter.
As a minimum, please disclose any
policy or guidance document issued
to ICL / Fujitsu:
1. concerning the specific defects
referred to in Schedule 6 of your
Letter of Response; and
2. concerning other defects which
may have resulted in losses to
branch accounts over the period
1999 to present, not currently
referred to in Schedule 6 of your
Letter of Response.
We refer to our previous explanation. A full
disclosure exercise would be required to
locate these documents.
In respect of your requests:
1. The core documents, which we are
currently aware of, relating to these
specific defects were provided on 31
August 2016. To locate any further
documents that may exist would
require a full disclosure exercise and
would not be reasonable or
proportionate to carry out at this stage.
2. This request is clearly a fishing
expedition and our client is not willing
to entertain your request or provide
these documents without further
particularisation.
If there is a particular defect that you
wish us to provide documents in
4A_33710637_1
WBD_000932.000001
WBONO0001062
WBON0001062
No
Claimants’ Request for
Documents
Post Office Response
Claimants’ Current Position
Post Office Response
respect of please let us know.
Operations manual(s) for Horizon —
1999 to present.
Post Office has no objection to
providing the current version of the
Operations manual. However, this
document is ordinarily accessible
via Horizon and so is not held in a
readily accessible format that can
easily be provided to your firm. We
are investigating further how this
document may be disclosed to you.
Providing historic documents would
require a full disclosure exercise.
This is neither reasonable nor
proportionate at this time.
Please confirm you have now
identified how to provide the current
version of the Operations manual
and you will do so without delay.
Please also provide a copy of the
Operations manual as at 1 January
2006 such that we at least have a
snapshot of the historic position.
We have attempted to export the
Operations Manual, however due to the
Operations Manual being hosted online and
the volume of documents contained within
the Operations Manual, to produce either a
hard or soft copy version would require a
full disclosure exercise, which at this stage
is not reasonable or proportionate.
Although we have been unable to export a
copy of the Operations Manual, please find
enclosed a copy of the index. The
documents provided show the front page of
the Operations Manual (as seen by the
Postmaster) and the manuals which are
contained under each of these sections.
If there are specific entries on which you
want disclosure, please provide details and
we will consider the relevance,
reasonableness and proportionality of
those requests. Alternatively, if you wish
for us to arrange an opportunity for you to
review the Operations Manual via Horizon
please let us know.
A snapshot of the Operations Manual as at
1 January 2006 would not have been
previously made or kept. It may be
possible to piece together a snapshot of the
Operations Manual as at this date however
it would be time consuming and
disproportionate to do so.
In any event, please could you provide an
explanation of the relevance of 1 January
2006. We note that this date falls outside
4A_33710637_1
WBD_000932.000002
WBONO0001062
WBON0001062
No
Claimants’ Request for
Documents
Post Office Response
Claimants’ Current Position
Post Office Response
of limitation and any events which may lead
to a cause of action at this time would be
time barred.
Schedule of Horizon updates,
modifications and software versions
since installation and the issues
which each of the versions
addressed.
In circumstances where you have.
not particularised any factual basis
on which Horizon is defective,
disclosure of these documents (if
they exist) is not relevant,
reasonable or proportionate.
In any event, the volume of
documents that may be covered by
this request would be significant.
These documents will also not be
located in one place. A full
disclosure exercise would be
required to locate these
documents.
See covering letter.
We anticipate that such documents
exist, are accessible, and could be
provided with the assistance of
Fujitsu if required. Please reconsider
this request and act reasonably so
as to provide the documents we
have requested.
Whilst we believe such documents do exist
and could be provided with the assistance
of Fujitsu, a full disclosure exercise would
be required to locate these documents. In
addition, the vast majority of variations that
have been made to Horizon would be
irrelevant and the process of identifying
those which are relevant would require a
full disclosure exercise.
Further, these documents may be held by
third parties (i.e. Fujitsu) outside of Post
Office's control. As such, these documents
may not fall within Post Office's disclosure
remit.
Schedule of software architecture
since launch in 1999.
In circumstances where you have.
not particularised any factual basis
on which Horizon is defective,
disclosure of these documents (if
they exist) is not relevant,
reasonable or proportionate.
As above.
As above.
Post Office internal notes,
memoranda, correspondence, emails
and briefing documents regarding
errors, bugs or problems in Horizon.
In circumstances where you have:
not particularised any factual basis
on which Horizon is defective,
disclosure of these documents (if
they exist) is not relevant,
reasonable or proportionate.
In any event, the volume of
documents that may be covered by
this request would be significant.
As above.
We also anticipate you will have
previously compiled documents in
this category.
As per our previous explanation, a full
disclosure exercise would be required to
locate these documents, which at this stage
is not reasonable or proportionate.
4A_33710637_1
WBD_000932.000003
WBONO0001062
WBON0001062
No
Claimants’ Request for
Documents
Post Office Response
Claimants’ Current Position
Post Office Response
These documents will also not be
located in one place. A full
disclosure exercise would be
required to locate these
documents.
Post Office internal notes,
memoranda, correspondence, emails
and briefing documents regarding
the Helpline support in dealing with
shortfalls in Horizon.
In circumstances where you have.
not particularised any challenge to
any specific shortfall, disclosure of
these documents (if they exist) is
not relevant, reasonable or
proportionate.
In any event, the volume of
documents that may be covered by
this request would be significant.
These documents will also not be
located in one place. A full
disclosure exercise would be
required to locate these
documents.
As above.
We also anticipate you will have
previously compiled documents in
this category.
As per our previous explanation, a full
disclosure exercise would be required to
locate these documents, which at this stage
is not reasonable or proportionate.
The process of reviewing calls are made to
the Helpline each year and identifying the
calls which refer to Horizon would require a
full disclosure exercise.
Post Office internal notes,
memoranda, emails and briefing
documents regarding risk or
likelihood of Horizon issues causing
transaction shortfalls or
discrepancies.
In circumstances where you have:
not particularised any factual basis
on which Horizon is defective,
disclosure of these documents (if
they exist) is not relevant,
reasonable or proportionate.
In any event, the volume of
documents that may be covered by
this request would be significant.
These documents will also not be
located in one place. A full
disclosure exercise would be
required to locate these
documents.
As above.
We also anticipate you will have
previously compiled documents in
this category.
This request is clearly a fishing expedition
and our client is not willing to entertain your
request or provide these documents
without further particularisation.
Further, as per our previous explanation, a
full disclosure exercise would be required
to locate these documents, which at this
stage is not reasonable or proportionate.
4A_33710637_1
WBD_000932.000004
WBONO0001062
WBON0001062
No I Claimants' Request for Post Office Response Claimants’ Current Position Post Office Response
Documents
"0. Horizon "cheat sheet" which was We are not able to identify the We will take further instructions in N/A
provided to postmasters by Post document that you request, and are I relation to this request and may write
Office. not aware of a "cheat sheet". To to you further in this regard.
the extent that you are able to
clarify the request, please do.
tt. Course materials for Horizon training I Not all of the training materials We have not yet seen the materials Documents were provided on 31 August
- 1999 to date. retained by Post Office are relevant I you do propose to provide to us. 2016.
to the issues in dispute. We will Please ensure that the materials you Post Office does not have a snapshot of
therefore provide certain current provide as a minimum deal with cash the Horizon trainings materials as at 1
Horizon training materials, and balancing, rolling over, January 2006 at Id not b impl
supporting materials, relating to discrepancies, accounting, and ry langle WOuld Hoh Dea eimpie
cash balancing. Other material suspense accounts. process to reverse engineer this.
may be disclosed in due course ‘ Further, please could you provide an
where appropriate to do so. Please also provide a copy of such explanation of the relevance of 1 January
materials as at 1 January 2006 such 2006. We note that this date falls outside
Providing historic documents would I that we at least have a snapshot of of limitation and any events which may lead
require a full disclosure exercise. the historic position. to a cause of porrelipes this time seine
This is neither reasonable nor time barred
proportionate at this time ime barred.
12.
“Knowledge Base" database of
guides and manuals used by helpline
staff since 1999.
The Knowledge Base database
contains in excess of 5,000 entries.
It is therefore not practicable to
provide disclosure of the
documents held on this system. If
there are specific entries on which
you want disclosure, please
provide details and we will consider
the relevance, reasonableness and
proportionality of those requests.
You are well aware of the issues
which are relevant. As a minimum
please provide entries dealing with
cash balancing, rolling over,
discrepancies, accounting, and
suspense accounts.
Please find enclosed the Knowledge Base
articles which deal with cash balancing,
rolling over, discrepancies, accounting, and
suspense accounts.
It should be noted that the categories of
Knowledge Base entries which you have
requested are not stand alone topics but
are contained within various other
categories. We have therefore provided
the major articles which deal with these
categories. The process of identifying
every article which referred to the
requested categories would require a full
disclosure exercise.
4A_33710637_1
WBD_000932.000005
WBONO0001062
WBON0001062
No I Claimants' Request for Post Office Response Claimants’ Current Position Post Office Response
Documents
"3. Helpline logs and any internal related I With regard to these Claimants We may refine this request in relation I N/A
records for the Claimants. who were part of the Scheme, the to particular Claimants. We will write
NBSC logs will, in many respects, to you further in this regard.
have been included with Post
Office's Investigation Reports. You
will be able to obtain these
documents from your clients.
If you require further such
documents, please specify the
particular documents and we will
consider the reasonableness and
proportionality of those requests.
4. Audit guidelines since 1998, The current guidelines on We anticipate it would be As per our previous response, providing
including any revisions to date. "Performing a Branch Audit" will be I straightforward for you to provide historic documents would require a full
provided. earlier versions of this document as disclosure exercise. This is neither
Providing historic documents would i our request, and we ask that you I reasonable nor proportionate at this time.
4 - : lo so. ;
require a full disclosure exercise. Please could you provide an explanation of
This is neither reasonable nor If you refuse to provide a complete the relevance of 1 January 2006. We note
proportionate at this time. set of revisions, as a minimum that this date falls outside of limitation and
please provide the guidelines in force I any events that may lead to a cause of
as at 1 January 2006 as a snapshot action at this time would be time barred.
of the historic position.
15.
Investigation guidelines since 1998,
including any revisions to date.
We are currently reviewing this
request and will update you in due
course.
We understand that these
guidelines will have evolved during
the period in dispute. Further,
providing historic documents would
require a full disclosure exercise.
This is neither reasonable nor
proportionate at this time.
Please provide the investigation
guidelines as we have requested.
If you refuse to provide a complete
set, as a minimum please provide
those presently in force and those as
at 1 January 2006.
The current version of the guidelines was
implemented by Post Office in January
2016. As such these are not relevant to
these proceedings as any prosecution of
the Claimants pre-dates January 2016.
Further the process of locating the previous
versions of the guidelines which would
have been in force at the time when the
Claimants were prosecuted would require a
full disclosure exercise. This is neither
4A_33710637_1
WBD_000932.000006
WBONO0001062
WBON0001062
No
Claimants’ Request for
Documents
Post Office Response
Claimants’ Current Position
Post Office Response
reasonable nor proportionate at this time.
Please could you provide an explanation of
the relevance of 1 January 2006. We note
that this date falls outside of limitation and
any events that may lead to a cause of
action at this time would be time barred.
Transaction logs and information on
the sums held in the respective
suspense accounts, relating to the
alleged shortfalls for the Claimants.
With regard to these Claimants
who were part of the Scheme,
transaction logs will, in many
respects, have been included with
Post Office's Investigation Reports.
You will be able to obtain these
documents from your clients.
If you require further transaction
logs, please specify particular
Claimants and time frames and we
will consider the reasonableness
and proportionality of those
requests.
You have not asserted any claim in
relation to Suspense Accounts in
the Letter of Claim so this element
is not relevant.
We may refine this request in relation
to particular Claimants. We will write
to you further in this regard.
N/A
Notes of audits and investigations
and copies of the individual case
reports and decisions reached by
Post Office in suspending and/or
terminating relevant postmasters.
With regard to the Claimants who.
were part of the Scheme, these
documents will, in many respects,
have been included with Post
Office's Investigation Reports. You
will be able to obtain these
documents from your clients.
If you require further such
documents, please specify the
We may refine this request in relation
to particular Claimants. We will write
to you further in this regard.
N/A
4A_33710637_1
WBD_000932.000007
WBONO0001062
WBON0001062
No
Claimants’ Request for
Documents
Post Office Response
Claimants’ Current Position
Post Office Response
particular documents and we will
consider the reasonableness and
proportionality of those requests.
Records or transcripts of interviews
for each of the Claimants.
We presume that your request
relates to transcripts of interviews.
that proceeded under caution.
With regard to the Claimants who.
were part of the Scheme, where in
existence, these documents will, in
many respects, have been
provided as part of the evidence
supporting Post Office's
Investigation Reports. You will be
able to obtain these documents
from your clients.
If you require further such
documents, please specify the
particular documents and we will
consider the reasonableness and
proportionality of those requests.
We may refine this request in relation
to particular Claimants. We will write
to you further in this regard.
N/A
Internal memorandum generated in
around late 2000 regarding problems
with Giro Bank deposits.
We do not recognise the document
to which you refer. Please provide
further details.
We will take further instructions in
relation to this request and may write
to you further in this regard.
N/A
20.
Documents concerning referral for
prosecution, including but not limited
to meeting notes confirming decision
to prosecute and the policy
documents relied upon in doing so,
for the Claimants.
These documents are likely to be
subject to legal privilege and will
not be disclosed.
Please disclose any documents
which you do not assert to be legally
privileged, including the policy
documents which we have
requested.
The majority of documents concerning
referral for prosecution are likely to be
privileged documents and not subject to
disclosure.
At this early stage, it would not be
proportionate or reasonable to review these
4A_33710637_1
WBD_000932.000008
WBONO0001062
WBON0001062
Email correspondence between
This is addressed in Schedule 3,
Please provide the emails which you
No I Claimants' Request for Post Office Response Claimants’ Current Position Post Office Response
Documents
documents for privilege.
Pt. Documents relating to termination of I The correspondence with Second Please provide a full set of Please could you provide an explanation as
Mediation Scheme. Sight and the Working Group in correspondence with Second Sight, to how these documents are relevant to the
relation to this point mentioned in and not just that which you rely on in I claims which you are asserting.
Schedule 3 will be disclosed. Schedule 3. There is no good reason In any event, the remaining documents
to limit disclosure to the documents h hd hot disclosed 9 31 A
on which you rely. which were not disclosed on I August
2016 are likely to be subject to litigation
Please also disclose any Post Office I privilege.
internal memoranda or notes relating
to this termination. This is relatively
recent history, and such documents
should be easily accessible.
22. The 'known error log' kept by Fujitsu I In circumstances where you have See cover letter. The claims which you have particularised
and provided to Post Office and all not particularised any factual basis There is no good reason to refuse concern errors with the Core Audit Log.
correspondence relating to the same. I on which Horizon is defective, : Fujitsu ki Following a revi f the Known Error Li
disclosure of these documents (If disclosure of the Fujitsu known error I Following a review of the Known Error Log,
Ra A log, which is plainly relevant to the Fujitsu have confirmed that there have
they exist) is not relevant, i bi I i t of Core Audit Li
reasonable or proportionate. issues. een no logs in respect of Core Audit Log.
The remainder of the Known Error Log
does not relate to the claim which you have
particularised and as such disclosure of this
document is not relevant.
23. Internal memoranda from Fujitsu and I We do not recognise the document I We anticipate you should be ina As per our previous response, we do not
POL referred to by Second Sight as to which you refer. Please provide I position to identify these documents recognise the document to which you refer.
identifying a ‘Horizon bug' with further details. and ask that you do so. Please provide further details so as we can
Horizon Online. At 7 progress your request.
present you are objecting to us
speaking to Second Sight in relation
to any issues raised in your Letter of
Response, which is particularly
unhelpful.
24.
We refer you to request 25 below which
4A_33710637_1
WBD_000932.000009
WBONO0001062
WBON0001062
A copy of the written paper (relating
to suspense accounts) produced to
Second Sight in July 2004 [sic],
together with the subsequent paper
(referred to at paragraph 53 of the
Executive Summary).
You have not asserted any claim in
relation to Suspense Accounts in
the Letter of Claim so this request
is not relevant.
The operation of suspense accounts
is clearly relevant to the claims, how
alleged discrepancies came about,
how Subpostmasters were required
to treat such discrepancies, and the
way in which Post Office
subsequently claimed alleged
shortfalls as losses.
In any event, in conflict with your
position expressed here, at Schedule
3, Section 6C you say that papers
No I Claimants' Request for Post Office Response Claimants’ Current Position Post Office Response
Documents
Fujitsu and Post Office in 2008, as Section 6B. refer to at Schedule 3, Section 6B. It I concerns the same documents.
requested by Second Sight. is not adequate to simply refer us to The documents are stored on an encrypted
this section. 6 "
hard drive, which we are unable to decrypt
and gain access to.
PS. Copies of the email data supplied by I Post Office has copies of the Please explain who encrypted the We refer you to our previous response
Post Office to Second Sight in May documents provided to Second hard drive and what steps are which provides an adequate answer.
2013 (referred to at paragraph 50 of I Sight in May 2013, but these are necessary to de-encrypt it. Please
the Executive Summary to Post held on an encrypted hard drive to confirm that you are taking The datas stored on an encrypted ard d
Office document entitled "Complaint I which it does not have the appropriate steps in this respect. ain paar to TYP I
Review and Mediation Scheme"). password. These documents may 9 .
be among the documents returned A separate log of the data which is on this
to Post Office by Second Sight, but hard drive was not created.
on reviewing those documents
there is nothing that clearly
identifies the emails provided to
Second Sight in May 2013.
26. A copy of the witness statement from I This document will be provided. We await the document you agree to I Documents were provided on 31 August
the member of staff who worked at Note — this statement remains in provide, and have no further request I 2016.
the Fujitsu site at Bracknell (referred I draft. at this stage.
to at paragraph 51 of the Executive
Summary).
27.
Documents relating to Suspense Accounts
were provided on 31 August 2016.
4A_33710637_1
WBD_000932.000010
WBONO0001062
WBON0001062
Second Sight's main report at
paragraph 14.8 refers to an internal
memorandum from October 2008,
which Post Office disclosed,
including the remark "Fujitsu have
the ability to impact branch records
via the message stored but have
extremely rigorous procedures in
The email (not memorandum) to
which we understand this request
to relates to will be provided.
We await the document you agree to
provide, and have no further request
at this stage.
No I Claimants' Request for Post Office Response Claimants’ Current Position Post Office Response
Documents
produced to Second Sight dated July
2014 and October 2014 will be made
available for inspection.
PS. Copies of all documents provided by I These documents relate to an To the extent you have provided We refer you to our previous response.
Post Office to the CCRC to date. ongoing investigation being carried I documents to the CCRC in which Due to the ongoing investigations it would
out by the CCRC, and have been you do not assert privilege, please ibe inapprel Wate To disclose these,
provided to the CCRC pursuant to provide a copy to us. These are docunente.
its specific statutory powers. documents which you have already °
Notwithstanding that many of the compiled on issues which give rise to
documents within this class will be the present proceedings, and it is
subject to legal privilege, it is plainly reasonable and proportionate
clearly inappropriate to request for you to provide them to us at this
such disclosure where the CCRC's I stage.
investigations are ongoing.
Accordingly, unless documents.
properly fall to be disclosed
separately under some other
request, they will not be disclosed.
29. Documents relating to Post Office's These issues are covered in To the contrary, disclosure is We refer you to our response at 3 above.
disclosure to Second Sight that, in Schedule 6. No disclosure is obviously necessary. Please provide A full disclosure exercise would be required
2011 and 2012, it had discovered necessary. these documents. This request to locate these documents which would not
"defects" in Horizon online that had overlaps with our request at number be reasonable or proportionate at this earl
impacted 76 branches (referred to at 3 above. ti y
paragraphs 6.4 - 6.6 inclusive of stage.
Second Sight's Interim Report).
30.
Documents were provided on 31 August
2016.
4A_33710637_1
WBD_000932.000011
WBONO0001062
WBON0001062
No
Claimants’ Request for
Documents
Post Office Response
Claimants’ Current Position
Post Office Response
place to prevent adjustments being
made without prior authorisation —
within [Post Office] and Fujitsu".
Please provide a copy of this
memorandum.
31.
Second Sight state at paragraphs
14.10 to 14.12 of its final report "in
our Interim Report we referred to
software bug in Horizon that had
impacted a small number of
branches. We have recently
discovered two further documents
that describe in more detail how Post
Office handles this issue. In both of
these documents a process is
described that involves directly
altering branch data."
The first document to which Second
Sight refer is named "Correcting
Accounts for "lost" Discrepancies"
and was created by a senior
engineer at Fujitsu in September
2010.
The second is entitled
"Receipts/Payments Mismatch issue
notes" which appears to be a minute
of a joint Post Office and Fujitsu
meeting held in August 2010.
Please provide copies of these
documents.
These documents will be provided.
We await the document you agree to
provide, and have no further request
at this stage.
Documents were provided on 31 August
2016.
32.
A schedule or list of all documents
delivered up by Second Sight to Post
We do not believe that any
documents were delivered up to
If there is already any such list in
existence, please disclose it.
So as to establish and filter out those
documents that are privileged, all 35,000
4A_33710637_1
WBD_000932.000012
WBONO0001062
WBON0001062
No
Claimants’ Request for
Documents
Post Office Response
Claimants’ Current Position
Post Office Response
Office and BIS as requested, on or
following the termination of Second
Sight's contract.
BIS (as suggested).
We understand that in excess of
35,000 documents were returned,
some of which will be subject to
legal privilege.
It is clearly not reasonable to
expect our client to review these
documents at this stage, assess
which are potentially disclosable,
and provide a list of the disclosable
documents.
In any event we do not consider it
likely to be a difficult process for you
to identify which documents are or
may be privileged. The vast majority
will obviously not be privileged, and
we expect that any documents which
may be privileged would have been
marked as such by your client.
documents would need to be reviewed. A
full disclosure exercise would be required
to do so, which would not be reasonable or
proportionate at this early stage.
4A_33710637_1
WBD_000932.000013