F, Victoria Brooks
8), !
‘our statement [WBDUK-AC.FID 26896945]
hhu, 16 Aug 2018 18:26:46 +0100
lormal
Attachments: _DOC_151405713(1)_Witness_statement_of_Paul_Williams_v4_16_August_2018.DOC
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Inline-Images: image I Sb6cf. PNG; image003cd3.PNG; imageab9d68. PNG; image001 jpg:
image002.png; image003.png; image004.png; image005.jpg
Paul
Thanks. Please find attached a further amended version of your statement, with new wording on the SERV 135 point.
If this is approved by you, we will add in the missing document references and send you a final version for signature
tomorrow.
Kind regards
Andy
Andrew Parsons
Partner
‘Womble Bond Dickinson (UK) LLP
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From: Paul F Williams [mailto}
Sent: 16 August 2018 13:44
To: Andrew Parsons
Cc: Mandy Robertson; Victoria Brooks
Subject: RE: Your statement [WBDUK-AC.FID26896945]
Andy
When the single national agency recruitment team was created in 2000, it was based in Salford and the core
team members ~ and team leader ~ were members of my old North Wales and North West team.
Lam pretty sure that they carried my old team’s process over into the new nationwide approach, and this
would have included ensuring that SERV 135s were part of every transfer pack after 2000.
Although I am sure we shared the SERV 135 draft with the other 6 Regions in the mid 1990’s I am really
unsure as to how many adopted the same approach as party of the transfer process.
Hope this makes sense
Paul
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Paul Wi
Restrictions Advisor
Agent Contracts & Services
Room 102
39 Bridge Street
St Helens
WA1O 1NY
Landli
Mobi
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From: Andrew Parsons [mailto}
Sent: 16 August 2018 13:33
To: Paul F Williams
Ce: Mandy Robertson; Victoria Brooks
Subject: RE: Your statement [WBDUK-AC.FID26896945]
Paul
Thanks
On the SERV 135, this did become a standard document because we have signed copies of it in other cases during
the period 2000 - 2010, which means it must have grown out of your region into other areas.
Is this your understanding? Or do you have no knowledge of using this document outside your region? This may well
have happened after your time in agency recruitment.
Andy
Andrew Parsons
Partner
Womble Bond Dickinson (UK) LLP
DICKINSON v0
From: Paul F Williams [mailtof~
Sent: 16 August 2018 11:02
To: Andrew Parsons
Cc: Mandy Robertson; Victoria Brooks
‘Subject: RE: Your statement [WBDUK-AC.FID26896945]
Importance: High
Andy
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Revised statement attached ~ a couple of points about changes I have made.
Para 27.1 — the SERV 135 wasn’d one of the documents ssued ti us by POL HQ ~ it was a North Wales &
North West regional initiative and so wouldn’t have been a standard item in the Tranfer Packs issued
elsewhere in the UK.
I'm sure this was one of the bits of “best practice” we shared with the other Regional Agency Recruitment
Teams and I think that at least some of the others did adopt it, but I’m unclear when this was and whether or
not it was adopted by all regions.
Para 35 —I’m sure I checked the files and I recall there being a standard facing sheet attached to the vacancy
file which I signed off — but having to find half a dozen files from that era yesterday, none of them had a
facing sheet attached, so I’m uncomfortable saying that ther was a definitive tick list.
Subrems / ACCs — Not wishing to be picky, but you DO have at least one Subrem regarding the
appointment process ~ subrem 43/91 which you attached to the previous iteration of my statement. I do have
some hard copy subrems from the 1990’s which I will have a look through and I will send over anything I
think is relevant later on.
Kind regards
Paul
Paul Williams
Restrictions Advisor
Agent Contracts & Services
Room 102
39 Bridge Street
St Helens
WA1O iNY
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From: Andrew Parsons [mailtof”
Sent: 16 August 2018 09:16
To: Paul F Williams
Ce: Mandy Robertson; Victoria Brooks
Subject: RE: Your statement [WBDUK-AC.FID26896945]
Paul
A revised version attached, which accepts all your changes and adds a few more changes from us. Would you mind
reviewing this again? I think we're nearly there.
Also... do you have a copy of any Subrem or ACC from the 1990s about the appointment process for
Subpostmasters. We've got a number of these from 2000 onwards but nothing from the 1990s.
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Thanks
Andy
Andrew Parsons
Partner
‘Womble Bond Dickinson (UK) LLP
[GRO]
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From: Paul F Williams [mailto
Sent: 15 August 2018 13:55
To: Andrew Parsons
Ce: Mandy Robertson; Victoria Brooks
‘Subject: RE: Your statement [WBDUK-AC.FID26896945]
Andy/Mandy
Revised witness stamen as promised — with alterations tracl
travelling this afternoon, so if we need a chat before final
ed for ease of reference I’m going to be
sing, Ill be in the office tomorrow morning.
Regards
Paul
Paul Williams
Restrictions Advisor
Agent Contracts & Services
Room 102
39 Bridge Street
St Helens
WAL1O 1NY
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From: Paul F Williams
Sent: 15 August 2018 12:39
‘To: 'Andrew Parsons’
Ce: Mandy Robertson; Victoria Brooks
Subject: RE: Your statement [WBDUK-AC.FID26896945]
Andy /Mandy
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I'll get back to you with my comments on the witness statement later on today.
Answers to your questions are below:
Regards
Paul
Paul Wi
ms
Restrictions Advisor
Agent Contracts & Services
Room 102
39 Bridge Street
St Helens
WA1O 1NY
Confidential Information:
This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. Any unauthorised review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient please contact me by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
From: Andrew Parsons [mailto!
Sent: 14 August 2018 20:14
To: Paul F Williams
Ce: Mandy Robertson; Victoria Brooks
Subject: Your statement [WBDUK-AC.FID26896945]
Paul
‘Thanks for your time earlier. Please find attached your draft statement for your comments. I've also attached a few
documents referred to in the statement for you to consider.
I'd also be grateful for your thoughts on the Subrem attached. In particular.
Para 11 that reads... When the letter accepting appointment is returned, Sub Office Services should notify the
outgoing SubPostmaster in writing of the date of
transfer, with a reminder to have the SubPostmaster contract document (Red book) ready for passing on to
the incoming Subpostmaster. You should also notify all other interested parties (e.g. Payroll, National
Savings Bank, Girobank etc.) confirming date of transfer.
What is the Red Book? ~ The first version of the Subpostmaster Contract document was a loose leaf document
issued to branches in a red ring binder — hence the reference to the “Red Book’ ~ which is the Subpostmaster
Contract. As I explained when we spoke, the contract was, at first passed from postmaster to postmaster, so this line
in the subrem is a sensible requirement that the outgoing subpostmaster is reminded of the need to have this ready to
pass on to his/her successor.
Para 14 that reads... At the transfer it is most important that signed copies are obtained of the form P.13
(Official Secrets Act), and acknowledgement of appointment. P250 and P272 should be completed for any
new assistant which may be employed also for completeness of identification of Sub office assistants we
would suggest a new P356 be raised. The officer responsible for the transfer should be careful to clearly
show which operational equipment and Rules Book are on hand. Completed forms P301 are required from
outgoing Subpostmasters and assistants.
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What is the Rules Book? In the days before on-line systems like Horizon the Rules Book (actually a set of ring
binders) contained all the detailed operational instructions that might be needed in a branch. So although the on-site
and off-site training would teach an incoming postmaster how to conduct transactions, deal with collecting postmen
etc, the rules would be left on site so that there was set of reference material that could be consulted should the need
arise (e.g.a rare or uncommon transaction).
Thanks
‘Andy
Andrew Parsons
Partner
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