WITNESS: PARMOD KALIA
STATEMENT NUMBER: WITNO179_01
EXHIBITS: 0
DATED: Jan 26, 2022
POST OFFICE HORIZON IT INQUIRY
FIRST WRITTEN STATEMENT OF PARMOD KALIA
THIS STATEMENT IS PROVIDED IN RESPONSE TO THE RULE 9 REQUEST OF
THE PUBLIC INQUIRY DATED 29/10/2021 TO ADDRESS THE HUMAN IMPACT OF
THE FAILINGS OF THE HORIZON IT SYSTEM
I, MR PARMOD KALIA, Date of Birt I of ADDRESS I
_GRO___will say as follows:-
PERSONAL BACKGROUND
1. I'm a 63-year-old and volunteer at a charitable organisation called Sachkhand
Nanak Dham. This is a spiritual organisation which helps people become one
with the almighty. : have lived away from the
family home since 2015 after disagreements between me, my wife and
children centred around the issue of whether I stole money from the Post
Office.
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POST OFFICE HISTORY
2.
When I was 18 years old, my father was tragically killed. I was studying A-Levels
but failed them. As I had an older sister, younger brother and mother, I then had
to go to work rather than continuing with my education.
In September 1977, I got a job with National Westminster Bank. I did my
banking exams and moved my way up the ladder in the banking sector.
I left in 1990 when I was an assistant manager, as I felt like I wanted to go into
business. I didn’t want to go into something with heavy lifting or unsociable
hours, but instead wanted something office based so chose the Post Office.
An aunt of mine worked in the Post Office who spoke of good times and the
salary. There was the element of being your own boss that appealed to me.
I became sub-postmaster of the Chipperfield Road Sub-Post Office branch on
1 June 1990 and was in this role until my contract was terminated in
September/October 2001.
. I cannot recall the names of those from the Post Office who interviewed me.
My area manager was Ms Christine Adams, my Federation Representative
was Mr Norman Bradbrooke and the Relief Sub-postmaster was Mr Singh. I
cannot recall his first name.
._ I first became aware of other people being caught up in the Horizon scandal
after watching the Panorama programme which aired in 2015. I realised that
this is what must also have happened to my post office in 2001.
. When Horizon was first installed in my Post Office in 2000, I attended a half-
day training session at a hotel in Bromley. However, I cannot recall the
precise details of the training given. I was also provided with a manual to
read, and I recall someone from the Post Office coming to the branch
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afterwards to help me with the system. The training I had before the system
was introduced was a week or week and a half of training off-site. There were
around 10 people in the class. The trainer was also present at my Post Office
for a day and a half to assist.
10.Around 6 months after Horizon was introduced, I had some further training
which consisted of one evening at a hotel for approximately 2-3 hours.
CRIMINAL ALLEGATIONS AND ANY PROCEEDINGS/CONVICTION
11.In July/August 2001, I was audited which resulted in a £25,000 shortfall being
identified and I was subsequently suspended. I was told by the auditors, I would
be interviewed and I could have a family member, a solicitor or a Federation
Representative present. I called my Federation Rep, Mr Norman Bradbrooke.
12. Following the suggestion from my Federation Representative as to “how quickly
can you put this right?”, I went to my mother and told her that I needed the
money. She went to her building society and got a cheque payable to the Post
Office. I was hopeful this would be the end of the matter.
13.It was a couple of days after that I heard back. The Post Office was still closed
at this point. They were saying they wanted to hold a formal interview. I spoke
to my Federation Representative again and explained the situation. His
response was to make up a story and plead guilty and that would give me a
minimal sentence or lighter custodial sentence, if necessary.
14.I made up the story that I had been buying shares. I’m not sure why I chose this
story, perhaps because I was involved with shares for customers at my previous
job at National Westminster Bank, but not from a personal standpoint.
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15.The Post Office pursued criminal proceedings against me with one count of
theft. I pleaded guilty as I was previously advised to do. I was given a 6-month
prison sentence. I served 3 months and spent 3 months on licence.
16.As far as I can recall, these are the dates of disciplinary and criminal
proceedings:
a. Suspension - July 2001
b. Termination - September 2001
c. When summons received - October 2001
d. Attendance at Magistrates Court - December 2001
e. Crown Court — March 2002
f. When you were sentenced — March 2002
g. Released on licence — June 2002
h. When conviction overturned — 14 May 2021
i. Court names where case was heard
i. Bromley Magistrates Court
ii. Croydon Crown Court
17. I borrowed from my mum’s savings and gave it to the Post Office within 2 days
of the audit.
18.1 was advised by my defending solicitor to accept the 6 month sentence, as I
would be out in 3 months and there was no point in appealing as it would take
that length of time for the courts to process any appeal.
THE HUMAN IMPACT
19.The human impact which the failings of the Horizon IT System have had and
continue to have upon me and my family are set out in the remainder of this
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statement. The section headings follow the particular questions posed by the
Inquiry.
WHAT WERE THE CONSEQUENCES OF BEING REQUIRED TO MAKE GOOD
APPARENT SHORTFALLS SHOWN BY THE HORIZON IT SYSTEM?
20.As stated earlier, I had already paid the shortfall prior to the Post Office
21.
prosecuting me. I was under the impression following advice from the
Federation representative that if I paid the alleged shortfall, the Post Office
would leave me alone to get on with running my Post Office. My mother went
to her Building Society and wrote a cheque for the sum in full. This was paid
to the Post Office.
I didn't tell my mum about the reason I asked for money. She begged and
pleaded for me to tell her why. It was embarrassing to be asking for money at
that age, when I should have been doing something for her rather than the
other way round. It caused a rift between me and my siblings. I have an older
sister and younger brother. My brother said that I was taking away what was
rightfully his inheritance in part, and my sister was never told about my
situation or the fact I served a prison term. She was notified just before my
appeal was due to be heard at Southwark Crown Court in May 2021. She was
understandably annoyed at me for taking Mum’s lifesaving.
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WHAT WERE THE COSTS OF MAKING GOOD ALLEGED SHORTFALLS
SHOWN BY HORIZON?
22.Due to records being unavailable, I am unable to say precisely the amounts
paid from profits, savings or other business. However, I do know that there were
amounts paid virtually every week since the introduction of Horizon.
23.The only deductions made from remuneration were starting from July 1990 until
paid in full, at the beginning of my career with the Post Office. This was known
as “the introductory payment”.
24.I used personal credit cards after the audit in July 2001 for living costs. I then
had to make voluntary arrangements to repay this.
25.1 did borrow the £25,000 shortfall from my mum. I did not get chance to pay this
back to my mum. She passed away in September 2019. I did not have to sell
any assets.
HOW WERE YOU AFFECTED WHEN ALLEGED TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR
SHORTFALLS OR DISCREPANCIES SHOWN BY THE HORIZON IT SYSTEM?
26.I had no idea how big the shortfall was. My first reaction was that I didn’t do
anything wrong so I went to the Federation to ask for advice. I knew from my
contract with the Post Office that I was responsible for all shortfalls, and I only
became aware of £25,000 shortfall after the audit. I felt that the shortfalls had
gradually built up in 2001. I didn't have money to put in, so I was covering it up
by declaring the cash as shown on Horizon. I was in fear of losing my job and
losing my post office if an audit was conducted. I knew I would be in big
trouble.
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27.The standard first point of contact when I noticed a shortfall was the helpline.
They would just advise waiting for error notices, or to put the discrepancies into
the suspense account and wait for error notices. When these didn’t come
through, I would then contact the regional manager. I was then told that I would
have to ‘make it good’.
28.I was told that everyone else was okay with Horizon. Despite the length of time,
I had been working for the Post Office, I was just made to feel incompetent.
29.1 was audited in July/August 2001, which resulted in a £25,000 shortfall being
identified and I was subsequently suspended. I was present at the audit when
3 people from the Post Office turned up at my branch. I did not receive any
notice of the audit.
30.My reaction was to stand at the back of the Post Office and let them count what
they needed. After carrying out their checks, I was told there was a shortage of
over £20,000 and whether I knew anything about it. I was in shock and couldn’t
believe a discrepancy that large could exist. I advised them I didn’t know where
the money was.
31.1 spoke to the National Federation of Sub Postmasters representative on the
phone, and he asked me how quickly I could put the shortfall right and keep it
out of the courts. I was shocked that he thought I had committed the offence.
Also, I was appalled by the lack of support I received during this time. My world
was being turned upside down and no one seemed to believe that I was
innocent.
32.1 had no option but to ask my mother for the money. She made out a cheque
payable to the Post Office, and I hoped this would be the end of the matter.
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33.1 couldn’t believe that I was going to be held responsible for such a large
shortfall. I was in shock and distressed that this had come to the surface. I was
lost and didn’t know what to do.
WHAT WERE THE CONSEQUENCES OF BEING HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR
SHORTFALLS AND DISCREPANCIES SHOWN BY THE HORIZON IT SYSTEM?
34. The Post Office was closed for about 4-6 weeks. The Post Office then appointed
a temporary sub-postmaster and I could not go into the Post Office which was
situated within my shop.
35.1 tried to be in the shop as little as possible when the Post Office was closed. I
would do stock measurement, cash and carry as people would question as to
why my Post Office was closed. I advised it was due to auditors. Footfall then
decreased in the shop. Customers would talk amongst themselves and whether
I had done anything wrong.
36.My contract was terminated by the Post Office around September/October
2001. This was as a direct result of the alleged shortfalls.
37.The Post Office pursued criminal proceedings against me with one count of
theft.
38.1 had to go to Bromley Magistrates Court in December 2001. My younger
brother helped me with finding solicitors. I was advised by my solicitor to pack
a bag as I may not be coming home. I pleaded guilty as I was previously advised
to do. I was advised that due to the size of the discrepancy, they couldn't deal
with the sentencing and so the case had to be referred to the Crown Court. I
have since found out that others with bigger discrepancies were dealt with at
Magistrates level.
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39.I had taken no money and there was no dishonest intent but I was convicted in
January or February 2002. To date, I have still not seen any evidence of an
adequate investigation regarding the shortfalls.
40.1 was given a 6-month prison sentence in March 2002. I served 3 months and
spent 3 months on licence.
41.1 was put in a prison cell with bunk beds and other people. I kept myself to
myself and didn’t make any friends in there. I would just go out of my cell for
meals and 23 out of 24 hours was in lockdown anyway.
42.1 was initially in High Down Prison before being transferred to Ford Open. I took
ajob in the garden centre there to keep me busy. There was also a factory that
meant I could make light fittings. I just tried to keep myself occupied.
WHAT WERE YOUR FINANCIAL LOSSES CAUSED BY ACTION TAKEN AGAINST
YOU IN RELIANCE UPON HORIZON DATA?
43.1 had to close the Post Office branch and the associated retail business as a
result of declining income. The lease was not renewed, so I lost any generated
goodwill of the business.
44.1 lost my income from the Post Office and also the retail business profit.
45.My wife and son were employed at the Post Office and they also lost their
sources of income.
46.I used credit cards for borrowing and had to pay interest for payments.
47.I do remember there being some legal costs but I cannot remember how much.
48.As a result of my conviction my insurance premiums increased for my car, van
and my home.
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WHAT EFFECT DID IT HAVE TO BE ACCUSED OF COMMITTING CRIMINAL
OFFENCES AS A RESULT OF SHORTFALLS AND DISCREPANCIES SHOWN
BY THE HORIZON IT SYSTEM?
49. After the audit, my Post Office was closed for weeks. Usually after an audit,
the Post Office would be closed for 2 or 3 hours. There were rumours
circulated amongst the local community that I had stolen money, and people
would look at me in my shop as if I did. This was very embarrassing and
shameful for me.
50. It was on my mind that I was being accused of being a thief. It played on my
mind.
51.1 was depressed and feeling very anxious, but I wouldn't show it to anyone.
My mental injuries have only surfaced over past couple of years.
52.1 attempted suicide on three occasions in 2015. I didn’t feel able to reach out
to anyone at that point in my life, and it was a horrible and lonely place to be
in. My children are encouraging me to go to counselling. I have attempted to
begin counselling With Time to Talk since May 2021. I’ve had about 4
sessions, put a stop to this as I did not find it helpful.
53.1 went to my GP in April 2021 as I could not cope anymore.
WHAT WERE THE CONSEQUENCES OF BEING CONVICTED OF A CRIMINAL
OFFENCE AS A RESULT OF SHORTFALLS AND DISCREPANCIES SHOWN BY
THE HORIZON IT SYSTEM?
54.It has been impossible to find permanent employment due to my conviction.
From 2005-2008, I worked as a chauffeur. From 2008-2013, I worked as a mini
cab driver.
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55.In the community, it has been very difficult to show my face again. I used to be
a treasurer of a charity organisation but subsequently that position was taken
away from me as well.
56.1 have had to deal with the stress, anxiety and depression. I also have had to
deal with the shame from the customers, local Asian community, my friends
and family.
57.In the last 3 years I have had problems with my eyes and suffer with a condition
called Blepharospasm. This also involved involuntary movements around my
mouth and lips and excessive blinking. I was treated with Botox but advised this
was just a temporary cure and that it could be down to Diabetes.
58.1 also have periods of memory loss and 2 months ago, I went to my GP and
admitted that I had attempted suicide. My GP provided me with anti-
depressants and I have attended 4 sessions of counselling through Time to
Talk. However, I did not find this helpful so chose to discontinue the sessions.
WHAT EFFECT DID THESE ISSUES HAVE UPON YOUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH
YOUR FAMILY, FRIENDS, COLLEAGUES AND LOCAL COMMUNITY?
59.My four children all had difficulties believing that I never stole money from the
Post Office, as I had no explanation as to what happened. Since I was part of
the Group Litigation Order in 2018/19, although keeping the children posted,
they had little interest despite me keeping them informed. Since my conviction
has been quashed, they are beginning to believe that I have been right all
along. However, they didn't know at the time. I think they have been confused,
and this all happened at a point in their lives when they were young. It must
have been a strange time for them, it was such a mess. They have all been
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scarred and are themselves seeking counselling, directly in relation to my
conviction.
60.1 didn’t tell my Mum anything about my situation with the Post Office. My
brother arranged for my Mum to go to India whilst I was in prison for 2-3
months so she had no clue what was happening. We believed this was best
as she wasn’t in the best of health at the time.
y sons, were running the shop until 2008 with my wife.
When the lease came up for renewal due to the fall in takings, I could not sell
the shop without the Post Office. I just gave the keys back and closed it down.
Stock was given away that we didn’t want to be lumbered with.
62.One of my closest friends was; GRO _jwho used to run a post office near to
mine. We had a fantastic friendship where we would help each other out.
Since the audit we haven't spoken. GRO I hasn't tried to contact me at all.
63.1 was involved in an Asian Community Group and I was the treasurer there. I
was in a position of responsibility and felt that I was totally shunned after my
experience with the Post Office. This was the biggest community impact for
me. I had what I thought to be lifelong friends, and it made me feel abandoned
when my friends stopped talking to me. I also had to go to the chairman of the
organisation and tell him directly. The chairman gave a statement in my court
case about my role as treasurer and that I was trusted.
64.1 couldn’t return to the community after I was released from prison. The
judgement would have been too much, and I knew I wouldn’t have been
accepted. I lost touch with everyone in the organisation. My children used to
go to Sunday school with other children of parents in the organisation, so they
lost their friends too.
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PLEASE DESCRIBE THE DIRECT AND INDIRECT EFFECT WHICH THESE
ISSUES HAD UPON THE MEMBERS OF YOUR FAMILY?
65; GRO_Imy third child, had passed her 11 plus exams in 2000 and she
went to a fee paying school. After 2001 I had to take her out of the school
after two terms and put her in a state school. She lost out on her education
and the friends she had. This was due to the lack of post office salary and
sales going down in the shop.
{GRO imy youngest daughter remembers witnessing lots of intense
conversations at the shop from when she was aged around 6 or 7. She
realised that something was wrong at the time, but didn’t know what. She now
understands what those conversations were about, and realises that the
reason why she would go to sleep at the shop would be because my wife and
I would be trying to find out why there were discrepancies.
67.When I was in prison, although my children did attend the shop and help, the
iMy second son, I
: University at the time so he
couldn't help out. ihad to give up on his ambitions of becoming an
electrical engineer so that he could concentrate on running the shop.I
obtained a business management degree and worked at IBM on a placement
in his third year at university. Had;
: pursued his career goals, I believe
he would have had a similar opportunity.
68.After my conviction, I lost my livelihood and then eventually my shop.
69.My youngest daughter, still reminds me how she had to get up at 4am
to go to the shop. She was 6 or 7 years of age at the time. Our shop was 10
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miles away from home. She would help with the shop and paper round. She
would come back to the shop after school and sleep behind the counter and
get back home at 11pm.
CULTURAL IMPACT
70.
71.
72.
73.
74.
75.
76.
77.
I am British Asian, Indian to be precise. I was born in India and came to the UK in
1965, at the age of 6.
Although my education and upbringing are from here in the UK and the UK is my
home, I do still have many Asian values and cultures instilled in me. We still have
proper curry, as well as burgers and chips.
. Within the Indian culture, it is frowned upon very seriously and with suspicion if
anybody does anything against the law, let alone having to go to court. Prison is
absolutely a no go area. No one would want to go anywhere near any family or its
members with a prison sentence past or present.
Parents would actively disapprove of their children keeping any kind of relationship or
friendship with any associate who has a criminal record.
Being conscious of this fact, I, with my family went into virtual hiding from our own
community from the date of allegation. Even after my release from prison, I had a
criminal conviction against my name and my family name was tarnished.
Within an Asian family the (emphasis) most important factors are based upon
Respect, Reliability, Responsibility and Reputation (emphasis) even more than
wealth.
When parents start thinking about the marriages of their children, within an arranged
marriage system, with the consent of the children, the first things they need to be
assured of are respect, reliability, responsibility, and reputation.
Knowing this I did not believe that my children would stand a chance to marry
someone within the UK, particularly with a conviction of theft around my neck. So, I
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had to look for a spouse for my oldest son from India. He subsequently got married in
2008 in India.
78. This is how shameful the situation has been for me and my family.
CONCLUDING REMARKS
79.I’m frustrated because I have been refused an interim payment, and this is
putting me through more anguish and anxiety. I can only assume I am being
treated differently because of racial connotations.
80.1 first found out about the Horizon scandal after watching the Panorama
program in 2015. That's when it twigged to me that this had happened to me. I
took the initiative to write to Paula Vennels. She didn't reply. I got a standard
response from one of the people below her advising there was nothing wrong
with Horizon and that I should seek legal advice if I wanted to proceed further.
I felt totally dismissed.
8
.My feelings towards the Post Office are that of total resentment. Why they
would put me and hundreds of other people through this is atrocious. They
have no care in the world about how it has affected us emotionally or
financially, and still to this day they are carrying on as before, hiding behind
lawyers, no morals; no lessons have been learned yet.
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Statement Of Truth
I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.
Print Full
Name: PARMOD KALIA
Position Or
Office Held:
Date of signature: Jan 26, 2022
FILE REFERENCE
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