WITNO2950100
Witness Name: Ms Nancy Chant
Statement No. WITNO295_01
Exhibits: None
Dated:6/2/2022
THE POST OFFICE HORIZON INQUIRY
FIRST WITNESS STATEMENT OF MS NANCY CHANT
I, MS NANCY CHANT WILL SAY as follows:
INTRODUCTION
1. I am grateful to the Chair to be invited to provide a “human impact” statement,
concerning the physical, psychological, emotional, reputational and financial
consequences to me and my family of being held responsible for shortfalls shown by
the Horizon IT system and Post Office Limited’s actions toward me and my family.
The initial paragraphs below provide a brief summary of my background and provide
context to the detail of the human impact of the Horizon scandal on me and my
family. This statement does not reflect a full account of my experiences or those of
my family and if necessary or required I will provide further witness statement
evidence.
BACKGROUND
2, I was a subpostmistress of Crookfur Post Office in Glasgow from 28 June 1986. I
remain in the position.
3. I operate a retail business from the premises, selling stationary, birthday cards and
small gifts. I employ one assistant.
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4, On leaving I school I went to work in a busy post office. I thoroughly enjoyed the job
and when the position of subpostmistress became available, I applied and to my
absolute delight, I was accepted.
5. I have therefore spent my entire working career with Post Office Ltd.
TRAINING AND SUPPORT
6. I received two days of training before the Horizon system was introduced. I cannot
remember the exact year, but it must have been in the early 2000’s. I did not feel
that this training was adequate; I had very little experience with computers prior to
the introduction of Horizon and this was not taken into account.
ra The training did seem to make some sense to me at the sessions. However, I found it
extremely difficult to make sense of the system in day-to-day life.
8. The first day that the Horizon system went live at my branch, a trainer came to the
office and stayed with me the full day.
9. The trainer would have answered any problems that I had, however I still found it
difficult to make sense of the programme. I was repeating what I had been taught in
the training sessions, however I did not understand how the computer was coming
up with the figures that I was being presented with. It was a lot to take in.
HELPLINE
10. Throughout my career at the Post Office, I have only sought advice from the Helpline
regarding shortfalls and technical issues such as faulty computers. Prior to the
introduction of the Horizon system, the branch ran smoothly and I really had no
cause that I needed assistance with.
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11, The shortfalls were of quite a substantial amount. I had never experienced this prior
to the Horizon system. I did not know how they had happened and what I had to do.
The Helpline went through my transaction history and records and could not find any
errors. I was led to believe that it was an error on my part and I was required to
make good the shortfalls.
12. For small shortfalls, for example under £20, I did not call the Helpline. I did not think
there was any point as I was always led to believe that I had a contractual obligation
to pay these back myself.
SHORTFALLS
13. In this section, I set out in very brief detail my experience of shortfalls arising from
deficiencies in the Horizon IT System, and Post Office Limited’s actions as a result.
This is only a brief introduction to those matters, in order to provide necessary
context for the explanation of the human impact which follows.
14, I would estimate that throughout my position in the branch, I paid (or Post Office
deducted) in excess of £11,000.
45. Without access to Post Office records, I am only able to provide approximate
amounts or dates when I repaid the shortfalls.
16. I regularly put cash from my own money into the system to make it balance. When I
did this the value was always around £5. I was told that I had to do this by the Post
Office as it was part of my contract. I did not think that I had any other option.
17. In May 2007 I noticed shortfalls of between £7,000 - £8,000.
18. I checked back through our records and transaction history. I also called the Helpline
and they went through the transaction history and they too could not find any
errors.
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19. I contacted my Post Office area manager regarding the shortfall. I was increasingly
paranoid that I could not account for the missing money. I was stressed and anxious.
However, the area manager said that she made it clear to Post Office that I would
not have stolen the money and it must have been a computer error.
20. I received a letter from Head Office stating that they were going to deduct the
amount owed from the shortfall from my salary. They would take a certain amount
from my monthly salary over 3 years until this was paid off.
21, Again, I believed this was a contractual obligation so did not think I had any other
option.
22. In June 2010 there was another shortfall of £3,000. This amount was deducted again
from my monthly pay.
23. Like the previous occasion, I checked back through our records and transaction
history. I called the Helpline, and they could not find an error. This was again settled
centrally.
24. On this occasion, I received a letter from Head Office and they said that they would
deduct the amount from my salary, like they did on the previous occasion.
25. However, the Post Office said that this time they expected the amount to be paid
back within 12 months.
26. I found this extremely difficult and stressful to pay back in such a short space of time,
especially as the branch was not doing as well as it previously had.
AUDIT AND INVESTIGATION
27. I recall several audits taking place over the years.
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28. The audits were always conducted without notice. To my knowledge, the auditors
did not find any issues at the branch.
29. There was always two auditors present. I do not have copies of the auditor's reports.
SUSPENSION AND TERMINATION
30. I was not suspended by the Post Office. I! am still acting in position as the
subpostmistress.
CIVIL AND CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS
31. The Post Office did not pursue civil or criminal proceedings against me for recovery
of the alleged shortfalls.
LOSSES
32. I regularly put cash into the systems to make Horizon balance.
33. I estimate that I paid in excess of £11,000 plus all sums found to be repayable. I was
give no alternative but to pay the shortfalls.
HUMAN IMPACT
34. I suffered serious problems with the Horizon system, including shortfalls.
35. The total was approximately £11,000 with two large unexplained shortages.
36. Out of fear of prosecution and other threats, such as civil action by the Post Office, I
agreed to pay the money back from my own pocket.
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I was involved in mediation in 2013 and received £2,000. I was a party to the group
litigation against Post Office Ltd, as a result I am excluded from the Historic Shortfall
Scheme.
Paying back the shortfalls took several years at a time I had recently refurbished my
post office as requested by the Post Office, using loans and credit up to my maximum
limit.
I originally had a small post office, which I ran by myself. I was told by Post Office Ltd
that I was required to build up a retail side to run alongside the branch.
I therefore refurbished the store at my own expense and employed my daughter.
It was a financial struggle to build the retail side when I was constantly paying the post
office shortfalls with any of the retail profit.
Having to repay the shortfalls impacted me financially. As a family we were struggling,
and my husband became angry and resentful. He could not understand why I was
paying for an error that I had not made.
My personal life became very strained and difficult between my husband and myself
because of having to explain the shortfalls and the constant stress and worry.
For days I worked every night trying to understand what happened to the cash. I could
not make sense of it; it was a very stressful time.
I had a lady from the Post Office coordinating my refurbishment and she told me that
the Post Office had asked her for her opinion if I had stolen the cash.
Thankfully she told them that I was honest, and this was an error somewhere.
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47. I was always told I was responsible so accepted the repayments, but the figures just
did not make sense.
48. I lost confidence in my abilities and began to question myself. For years when
balancing, I had a sense of panic and dread in case this could happen again.
49. I struggled financially until the shortfalls were paid in full.
50. I was not accused of criminal activity just told that I had to repay the shortfall.
51. My family life deteriorated. I had a husband who was angry with me, and a family that
pitied me. I felt a sense of shame and isolation. I could not speak to anyone outside of
my family about this for a fear my standing in the community would be diminished.
52. I had never had a big income from the post office but repaying the shortage and also
having to make the repayments on the loan for the refurbishment left me very short
of income.
53. It felt as though I was working for nothing. I was demoralised; my self-esteem was at
an all-time low. I had to work to make the repayments. I felt that I had no choice but
to do so. I worked just to live. I was no longer enjoying the job I once loved.
54. I havea history of long service with Post Office Ltd and had an unblemished record. To
be treated with such little compassion or understanding was very hard to stomach.
CONCLUSION
55. As I have said, I have worked for the Post Office since I left school, and I am still a
subpostmaster, despite everything that has happened. However, I feel that I have
been completely let down by the Post Office.
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When these shortfalls were arising, and the Post Office was placing responsibility for
them on me, I now know that the Post Office knew that their Horizon System was
unreliable. This makes me feel like I have been tricked or betrayed by my employer.
I have described how the Post Office took money from my remuneration for years.
This meant that, despite working very hard throughout these years, I had almost
nothing to show for it. My salary and my earnings were being swallowed up by the
Post Office to repay so-called shortfalls.
I had to watch every penny for years, and struggled to pay my bills.
My husband blamed me, believing that I had made serious mistakes. It did not occur
to him the that Post Office’s national computer system could be wrong. This loss of
trust affected my self believe and self-worth and affected our marriage.
The job I once loved became a source of anxiety and dread. I blame Post Office Ltd for
this. Had it not been for the roll out of the faulty Horizon system I would not have had
years of self-doubt and working for little pay, as I was repaying the post office for
shortfalls that I had not caused.
Statement of Truth
I believe the contents of this Statement to be true.
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