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Witness Name: Dave Ward
Statement No.: WITN10070100
Dated: 215' June 2024
POST OFFICE HORIZON IT INQUIRY
FIRST WITNESS STATEMENT OF DAVE WARD
I, MR DAVE WARD, will say as follows...
INTRODUCTION and BACKGROUND
1. lam the General Secretary of the Communication Workers Union (CWU) and I
was elected to this role in 2015. I was a member of the CWU Postal Executive
in the year 2000, before being elected Assistant Secretary for Royal Mail
deliveries in 2001. I was elected to the role of CWU Deputy General Secretary
for Postal issues (DGSP) in 2003, and I held that role until I became CWU
General Secretary.
2. This witness statement is made to assist the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry (the
“Inquiry”) with the matters set out in the Rule 9 Request dated 17 April 2024
(the “Request’). I have drafted this witness statement, but I have sought
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assistance and guidance from a lawyer at Penningtons Manches Cooper LLP
in finalising the statement and ensuring that it meets the requirements of the
Rule 9 request and covers the points raised.
3. I have been asked to provide a first witness statement covering my involvement
in matters relating to Phases 4, 5 and 6 of the Inquiry.
THE CWU’S ACTIVITIES AND THE NATURE OF MEMBERSHIP.
4. I have been asked to provide a brief summary of the purpose(s) and activities
of the CWU, taking into consideration the draft CWU Rule Book 2001
(CWU00000112) and the CWU Rule Book 2004 (CWU00000120). The CWU
is an independent trade union, certified as such by the statutory regulator, the
Certification Officer.
5. I can confirm that the CWU is the largest union in the communications sector in
the UK, representing over 170,000 members in the postal, telecoms,
technology, financial services and related industries.
6. The CWU is the recognised trade union for non-managerial employee grades
in Royal Mail, BT and the Post Office Limited (POL) where the Union has
members in all sections of the business. We also have a national ‘CWU
Postmasters! Branch’, established in 2014, with circa 300 postmaster
members. The CWU has long called for union recognition for collective
bargaining purposes for postmasters, but POL has consistently refused to grant
this.
1 The title ‘Postmasters’ encompasses all postmasters including postmasters in Crown Offices and
subpostmasters and subpostmistresses in sub post offices.
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7. The CWU’s Rule Book is regularly updated, but the Rule Book shows that the
objectives of the union have remained largely unchanged since 2001, including:
a) To unite and organise all those entitled to be members. To protect and
promote members’ interests and maintain and improve their working lives;
b) To regulate the tensions between members and their employers, and
between members.
8. The methods adopted by the CWU to represent our members’ interests
between 2000 and 2019 include (as they still do today) the following:
a) Maintaining strong, democratic representative structures so that
members are represented at every level from individual workplaces through
their local branch, area and region, up to national level through the National
Executive Council and national conferences.
=z
Collective bargaining with employers on pay, terms and conditions of
employment.
c) Individual representation in the workplace, including on disciplinary or
grievance cases.
d) Legal advice and representation, including in Employment Tribunals,
through the CWU’s law firm UnionLine and other legal service providers.
e) Continuous political engagement with local authorities, Metro Mayors,
the Labour Party and the Government on many areas of policy, including
workers rights and industrial matters, to ensure our members’ interests are
represented at every level.
f) Campaigning for and on behalf of our members and the wider trade union
movement both industrially and politically on a wide range of issues, from
employment rights to health and safety related concerns.
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g) Operating under the umbrella of the Trades Union Congress (TUC).
CWU Legal Services
9. I have been asked to consider rule 11.2.1 of the CWU Rule Book 2001
(CWU00000112) and rule 4.1.7 of the CWU Rule Book 2004
(CWU00000120).
10.1 can confirm that between 2000 and 2019, the CWU provided a broad range
of legal services to our members as we do today.
1
a
-In 2014, the CWU jointly set up trade union law firm UnionLine alongside the
GMB in response to changes to the regulatory environment for the personal
injury claims market. These changes were part of the Jackson reforms that
came into force in April 2013. Prior to 2014, the CWU delivered legal services
in conjunction with employment law firms such as Simpson Millar and others.
12.The creation of UnionLine changed the structure and organisation of much of
CWU legal services, but the scope of the union’s legal services offering has
remained fundamentally the same since 2000. This includes legal advice and
representation on:
a) Employment matters such as unfair dismissal, working time and payment
issues.
b) Personal injury cases, helping individuals to win compensation if they suffer
an accident or injury that wasn’t their fault.
c) Road Traffic Accidents (RTAs).
13. The CWU may, dependent on circumstances, offer legal advice on other issues,
e.g. consumer disputes and motoring offences.
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14.1 have been asked to set out to what extent the rule changes in or around 2004
affected the legal representation to which CWU members may be entitled.
15.1 can confirm that the rule changes in or around 2004 did not materially affect
members’ entitlement to legal services. The changes were designed to simplify
and summarise the rule in relation to the provision of legal services.
16.1 have been asked to provide an overview of the employment status of CWU
members in the Post Office and the types of roles the CWU represented in the
Post Office between 2000 and 2019, limited to those who used the Horizon IT
system.
17.1 can confirm that from 2000 to 2019, the CWU represented Post Office
employees who used the Horizon IT system in a range of non-managerial
grades working in Crown Post Offices. This includes, for example, Counter
Clerks and Financial Specialists in Crown Offices.
18.1 can confirm that since 2014 when the CWU established a dedicated CWU
Postmasters Branch, the CWU has represented subpostmasters, who following
a test employment claim were found to be self-employed agents of the Post
Office.
KNOWLEDGE OF HORIZON
19.I have been asked to consider the extent of my knowledge of the integrity of the
Horizon IT system from 2000 to 2008. In doing so, I have been asked to
consider a range of documents provided by the Inquiry, including minutes of
Horizon Working Group meetings and correspondence between the CWU and
the Government.
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My personal knowledge of Horizon system integrity (2000-2008)
20.1 can confirm that I personally had no knowledge of the integrity of the Horizon
IT system during the period 2000 to 2008.
21.For context, I was a member of the CWU Postal Executive in the year 2000,
before being elected Assistant Secretary for Royal Mail deliveries in 2001.
22.1 was elected Deputy General Secretary for Postal issues (DGSP) in 2003, a
role I held until 2015. As DGSP I had general responsibility for postal issues,
but the role was strategic and wide ranging, which did not require me to have,
nor did I have a detailed knowledge of day-to-day issues in the Post Office.
23.As CWU General Secretary since 2015, I have not been involved in day-to-day
operations in the Post Office. My role as General Secretary is focused on
strategic issues for all members across all the sectors in which CWU members
work, as well as wider political matters and dealing with the escalation of trade
disputes across a number of employers.
24.In short, none of my roles at CWU have involved direct day-to-day responsibility
for or insight into Post Office issues, which is an area covered by a dedicated
CWU Assistant Secretary (Tony Kearns until 2002 and Andy Furey since 2002).
CWU knowledge of Horizon system integrity up to August 2000, as evidenced by the
Inquiry documentation
25.For the purposes of this Inquiry I have examined the documents listed that the
Inquiry has asked me to consider, so that I may offer a view on the CWU’s
knowledge of Horizon integrity at this time.
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26.1 believe these documents show that, as a member of the Horizon Working
Group in 1999 and 2000, the CWU was aware that the system was complex,
that technical issues had arisen in its development, and that this had led to
delays in its acceptance and rollout. For example, document NFSP00000066
says that “Mr Miller (POCL) explained that formal acceptance of the
reconfigured Horizon system planned for 18 August (1999) had been
postponed because of POCL’s concern about training, system stability, data
integrity (there had been an unacceptably high level of screen freezes) and the
effective operation of the help desk” (NFSP00000066 - minutes of the Horizon
Working Group meeting on 11 October 1999). Mr Miller also explained that
there was some disagreement between the Benefits Agency (BA) and ICL in
the reasons for problems with the reading of bar codes on benefit order books.
“BA blamed the Horizon system, whilst ICL blamed the quality of bar code
priming” (NFSP00000066).
27.The same document (NFSP00000066) shows that the CWU General Secretary,
Derek Hodgson, expressed concerns about a number of issues, suggesting
more frequent meetings were necessary to ensure the success of the Horizon
project. He also suggested the Working Group could input more directly into
the discussions between POCL and the BA, but the DTI Minister Alan Johnson
MP said that the Working Group could not sit at the negotiating table.
28.As we also heard in the Inquiry’s evidence session with Tony Kearns on 29"
November 2022, document NFSP00000200 (note of a meeting of the Horizon
Working Group on 7'" July 1999) states “Mr Sweetman (POCL) gave a report
on negotiations with ICL...On rollout, a deal was being closed. The plan was to
complete 99% of rollout by March 2021. Mr Hodgson thought this was quite
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ambitious and sought assurances that the usual health & safety and other
standards would not slip. Mr Sweetman thought that neither management nor
workforce should attempt to use this tight timescale to their advantage.”
29.Document NFSP00000066 shows that Mr Miller (POCL) said “The Post Office
had accepted the system on 24" September 1999 on the basis that effective
remedial action had either been completed or was at hand”.
30.Documents CWU00000103 and CWU00000100 (correspondence between
Derek Hodgson, Alan Johnson MP and others between 19 and 24 January
2000) show that the CWU expressed concerns to the Minister that issues
relating to the Horizon roll-out were not being sufficiently addressed. The
Minister rejected the CWU’s concerns and said that “Whilst there are still
difficulties with balancing, the other technical problems have been resolved and
the roll-out will recommence as scheduled.”
3
a
.In summary, the documents I have been asked to consider and the other
evidence referenced (document NFSP00000200) show that the CWU was a
member of the Horizon Working Group in 1999/2000. The documents show
that the CWU was told by POCL and the Government (DTI) that technical issues
that had arisen during the trial period had been or were being resolved. I
believe that the documents show that the CWU was generally reliant on POCL
and the DTI for information and insight into these technical issues at that time.
We had no decision-making role in relation to approval or acceptance of the
Horizon system or making technical changes to improve its performance. We
expressed our concerns and sought assurances in relation to the Horizon
rollout on the Working Group, and we were reliant on assurances from POCL
and the DTI that Horizon would be fit for purpose by the time it was rolled out.
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CWU knowledge of Horizon system integrity from 2000 to 2008
32.Other than the CWU’s awareness of the technical issues described above,
which we were assured would be resolved by the time of roll-out as the
documents show, I do not recall the CWU being aware of any problems with
Horizon system integrity between 2000 and 2008.
33.1 do not believe we were aware at that time of (a) the existence of bugs, errors
or defects, or (b) the ability of Fujitsu staff to alter transaction data or data in
branch accounts without the knowledge or consent of SPMs? (“remote access’).
34.As stated in the section on CWU activities and membership, the CWU has union
recognition for directly employed non-managerial grades in Post Office Limited
working in Crown Offices. I do not believe we were aware of any Horizon
integrity issues affecting POL employees between 2000 and 2008.
35.Prior to 2014, the CWU did not actively recruit or represent subpostmasters.
Therefore, we did not have first-hand knowledge or awareness of the difficulties
that subpostmasters were experiencing due to Horizon. The cases that POL
took against subpostmasters during the period from 2000 to 2008 (including for
example Alan Bates in 2003 and Lee Castleton in 2007) were not within the
CWU's remit at that time.
36. It was not until 2014 that the CWU established the CWU Postmasters Branch,
which was led by Mark Baker who was formerly a member of the NFSP
Executive before resigning in 2010 in response to the NFSP’s failure to defend
its members over Horizon.
? In this Rule 9 request, SPM refers to subpostmasters, subpostmistresses, Post Office Counter Managers and
Post Office Counter Assistants
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Discussion with CWU colleaques
37.1 have been asked to what extent I discussed my knowledge of Horizon system
integrity with others at the CWU. I can confirm that I do not recall discussing
these matters with others at the CWU between 2000 and 2008. It is unlikely I
would have done so because, as set out above, none of my roles at CWU have
involved responsibility for day-to-day duties regarding Post Office issues.
38.It is unlikely that the CWU would have discussed these issues as an
organisation between 2000 and 2008 because as I have stated, I do not believe
the CWU was aware of the problems with Horizon integrity during that period
of time.
39.1 have been asked to set out what steps I or the CWU took to develop a better
understanding of Horizon related problems between 2000 and 2008.
40.1 can confirm that I did not take any such steps at this time and I do not recall
that the CWU took any such steps at this time. We had no reason to do so
because as I have said I do not believe we were aware of the Horizon integrity
issues between 2000 and 2008.
POST OFFICE INVESTIGATIONS, CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS AND CIVIL
PROCEEDINGS
Understanding of POL branch audits/investigations (2000-2008)
41.1 have been asked to briefly summarise how I understood POL to conduct
branch audits or investigations into alleged shortfalls in branch accounts, with
a particular focus on 2000 to 2008.
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42.1 can confirm that in my roles as Assistant Secretary for Royal Mail deliveries,
DGSP and subsequently CWU General Secretary, I was not aware of how POL
conducted branch audits or investigations into alleged shortfalls in branch
accounts. I was, however, aware that there were processes for
auditing/investigation shortfalls at Crown Post Offices where CWU members
were employed. I did not have any detailed knowledge of these processes as
it was not my immediate area of responsibility. These matters were dealt with
by the Assistant Secretary for Post Office issues (Tony Kearns until 2002 and
Andy Furey since 2002).
CWU support for SPMs (2000 — 2008)
43.1 have been asked to describe the nature and extent of any support the CWU
offered to SPMs between 2000 and 2008 in relation to Horizon, branch audits
and alleged shortfalls.
44.In relation to our directly employed Post Office members, the CWU had an
extensive representative structure and collective bargaining agreements in
place — as we still do today - to help ensure that the interests of our members
were properly protected. I am not personally familiar with the ‘Losses and
Gains Procedure’, but I understand that this procedure has been significant in
ensuring a fair hearing for CWU directly employed members in relation to
accounting discrepancies.
45.1 can confirm that the CWU did not support subpostmasters during this period
because we did not represent them. This was the responsibility of the NFSP
as the only recognised trade union for subpostmasters until 2013, when the
Post Office stated that they did not recognise the NFSP for collective bargaining
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purposes. Subsequently, in 2014, the Certification Officer removed the NFSP’s
status as a trade union.
46.The CWU has represented subpostmasters since 2014 when we established
the CWU Postmasters Branch. However, our membership is relatively small
compared with the NFSP, and we have so far been unsuccessful in securing
trade union recognition for subpostmasters. The NFSP continues to be the main
representative body for subpostmasters with over six thousand members,
compared with circa 300 CWU subpostmaster members.
RESPONDING TO THE EMERGING SCANDAL
47.1 have been asked to respond to a number of questions in relation to the
emerging Horizon scandal, and in doing so I have been asked to consider a
range of documents provided by the Inquiry. These include various letters to
CWU Branches sent by the CWU and a letter from me to Baroness Neville-
Rolfe in 2015.
Personal awareness of JFSA and the Horizon IT problem raised by Computer Weekly
in 2009
48.1 do not recall when I personally became aware of the JFSA or of the allegations
made in the 11" May 2009 Computer Weekly article about the Post Office failing
to recognise a potential IT problem (Document POL00041564).
49.1 was not aware of the creation of the JFSA when it was first established in
November 2009.
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50. It is likely that I first became aware of these matters in 2013 when the CWU
issued an LTB (Letter to Branches) on the findings of the Second Sight report
(Document CWU00000001).
CWU awareness of these issues
51.1 believe that the CWU was not initially aware of the JFSA when it was
established in 2009. My understanding is that the CWU was never approached
or contacted by the JFSA to engage with them or to support their campaign , so
it may have taken some time for the JFSA to come to the CWU'’s attention.
52.1 do not believe that the allegations made by subpostmasters in the 2009
Computer Weekly article were initially on the CWU’s radar in any formal
capacity because the CWU did not represent subpostmasters at that time.
Further, my understanding is that no issues relating to complaints surrounding
Horizon had been raised directly with the CWU by our Crown members.
53. It is likely that these developments gradually came to the CWU's attention over
the following years. The earliest record of the CWU communicating with our
branches in relation to the JFSA and the potential Horizon IT problem is the
letter to branches of 12" July 2013 (document CWU00000001).
CWU action to raise concerns about Horizon (2009 — 2019)
54.1 have been asked to provide an account of any steps that I or the CWU took
between 2009 and 2019 in raising concerns regarding the integrity of the
Horizon IT system.
55.1 can confirm the following:
a) In 2014, as stated above, the CWU established the CWU Postmasters
National Branch to represent the interests of postmasters.
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b) In January 2015, the CWU submitted written evidence to the BIS
Committee Inquiry on Horizon, when we stated: “We believe there are
serious failures with...Horizon and the infrastructure over which it runs. This
includes problems with training, accounting practices, losses and gains
policies, disciplinary policies, technical and operational help desk support,
telecommunication and power related issues, interface development issues,
hardware maintenance and data centre integrity” (RLIT0000220).
c) In February 2015, Andy Furey (CWU Assistant Secretary) and Mark Baker
(CWU Postmasters Branch Secretary) gave oral evidence to the BIS
Committee Inquiry on Horizon expressing serious concerns about the
system and POL’s mediation scheme. During the session, Mark Baker said:
“What has been systemic and consistent throughout Horizon’s life is the
failure to recognise that parts of the infrastructure could be to blame for
some of these discrepancies occurring” (POL00022337). Andy Furey said
“We are concerned about the pace of the process of mediation, and the
number of cases that seem to have fallen out of the process. Overall, we
are not particularly happy with the way that the mediation scheme has been
conducted” (POL00022337).
d) In April 2015, the CWU called for an independent inquiry into the Horizon
debacle and justice for postmasters who claim they have been accused of
wrongdoing. We also called on the Post Office to formally recognise the
CWU to represent postmasters with immediate effect (document
CWU00000004), CWU letter to branches from Andy Furey, CWU Assistant
Secretary, 21St April 2015). The CWU’s concerns about the approach
adopted by POL to the alleged problems caused by Horizon were raised
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directly with the Prime Minister (document CWU00000076, CWU NEC Doc,
18" June 2015).
e) In November 2015, The CWU warned postmasters of a flaw in the Post
Office Horizon system (POLO0267952). As set out in document
POL00321858 (CWU circular to postmasters forwarded by Karl Flinders on
3 November 2015), the CWU Postmasters Branch sent an email to its
members alerting them to intermittent duplicating errors that are caused by
Horizon. This referred to the ‘Dalmellington case’ which was later used as
important evidence in the High Court of known errors in the Horizon system
(CWU00000129).
f) In April 2019, the CWU sent a parliamentary briefing to all MPs to alert them
to the Post Office Horizon Trials. The briefing contained a number of
recommendations, including that POL’s right to prosecute without CPS
scrutiny needs to be assessed, and an overhaul of POL governance is
needed (document CWU00000020, CWU letter to branches from Andy
Furey, 12'" April 2019).
g) In December 2019, the CWU called for a public inquiry into the whole
Horizon debacle (document CWU00000029, CWU letter to branches from
Andy Furey, CWU Assistant Secretary, 23° December 2019).
56.1 believe it is also relevant to note, whilst not Horizon specific, that in August
2018 the CWU submitted a group Employment Tribunal claim seeking to
formally establish ‘worker status’ for subpostmasters. The overall objective
was to introduce much needed employment protections for subpostmasters
and to establish a route to collective bargaining recognition for subpostmasters
through the CWU as an independent trade union. Unfortunately, in March
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2022, the CWU lost its legal claim against the Post Office for worker status for
subpostmasters.
Meetings with Government Ministers and other representatives
57.1 have been asked whether I met with government ministers and
representatives in 2015/16.
58.1 can confirm that Andy Furey and I held a meeting with Baroness Neville-Rolfe
in 2015. We do not have a record of the precise date of the meeting. As we
made clear in our letters to Baroness Neville-Rolfe of 15° June and 3% July
2015, (Documents UKGI00005210 and UKGI00005211), the main issues we
wanted to discuss were around the future of the Post Office network, Network
Transformation and the NFSP's Memorandum of Understanding with the Post
Office. I believe the meeting focused mainly on these issues.
59.1 do not recall whether we discussed the Horizon IT System, but it is possible
that we touched on it briefly as it was a concern which we had raised with the
Prime Minister earlier that year (as mentioned in Document CWU00000076).
60.1 recall that Andy Furey and I held a meeting with Margot James MP in 2016,
although we do not have a record of the precise date. I believe the discussion
would have centred on our concerns about the future of the Post Office
network, especially around government funding and Network Transformation.
We may also have covered Horizon, given our earlier calls for an independent
inquiry into this issue (document CWU00000004).
CWU liaison/communication with NFSP and JESA
61.1 have been asked to what extent the CWU liaised or communicated with the
NFSP and/or the JFSA in relation to the integrity of Horizon.
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62.1 can confirm that I did not personally liaise with the NFSP and/or the JFSA in
relation to the integrity of Horizon.
63. Apart from the CWU’s involvement in the Horizon Working Group in 1999 and
2000, I am not aware that the CWU liaised or communicated with the NFSP on
the integrity of Horizon.
64.1 am not aware that the CWU had any relationship with the JFSA, and I do not
recall any CWU communication with the JFSA on the integrity of Horizon. I
am not aware of any attempt by either the NFSP or the JFSA to contact the
CWU on these issues. As stated in CWU00000076, ‘the key individual in
JFSA, Alan Bates, is not currently in contact with the CWU postmasters’
branch’.
Knowledge of Horizon 2009 - 2019
65.1 have been asked to provide information on my knowledge of Horizon between
2009 and 2019.
66.1 can confirm that the CWU became far more aware of problems with the
integrity of the Horizon system from 2013 onwards, as described above.
67.When the CWU’s Postmasters Branch was established in 2014, the CWU
became increasingly aware of serious problems with the integrity of the
Horizon system, due to the concerns raised by postmasters. The CWU
Postmasters Branch has dealt with many requests for support from postmaster
members since the branch was established in 2014. The former CWU
Postmasters Branch Secretary, Mark Baker, is best placed to provide further
detail on this.
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68.1 do not believe the CWU was aware of Horizon integrity problems in relation
to Post Office employees during the period 2009 to 2019 because as far as the
CWU is aware, none of our directly employed members raised concerns with
the CWU about Horizon integrity.
69.The CWU has always provided strong and effective representation for
members accused of accounting discrepancies. CWU collective agreements
including the ‘Losses and Gains Procedure’ have been significant in ensuring
a fair hearing for CWU directly employed members. The CWU would have
fought for similar procedures to be applied to postmasters if POL had engaged
with the CWU.
70. There have been cases of actual theft amongst CWU represented grades, but
invariably when people have been caught and presented with clear evidence
of wrongdoing, they are quick to admit to theft. In these cases, the CWU is
generally not involved as people resign before being dismissed.
71.Since the Horizon system was put in place, to my knowledge no one has come
forward and said they were a former CWU member who was let down by the
CWU and not represented.
72. Prior to the commencement of the Inquiry, to my knowledge the CWU had no
record of any of our directly employed members losing their jobs or being
prosecuted due to problems with Horizon.
73. The CWU is now aware of details of two cases of Post Office employees in
CWU grades who have been prosecuted and convicted of theft or fraud, one
of whom we know was a CWU member.
74. Tracy Felstead was the only case we now know of relating to a direct employee
of the Post Office being jailed for theft as a consequence of Horizon failures. I
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76.
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do not know when the CWU became aware of Tracy Felstead’s case, but the
union was aware of it by March 2020 when Tracy gave oral evidence to the
House of Commons BEIS Committee on the same day as Andy Furey from the
CWU (UKGI00018138). Tracy was jailed for a year in 2010 aged 19 after
being accused of stealing £11,503. The CWU has no record of Tracy having
been a CWU member and we have no knowledge of her approaching CWU for
support.
Elena Herd was a Customer Service Advisor at a Post Office in Stockport for
nine years before being charged with fraud after a Post Office investigation into
rejected post office labels. She was sentenced by Stockport Magistrates’ Court
to four months imprisonment (suspended for 12 months), 200 hours community
service and to pay £500 compensation with costs of £100. In November 2022,
Elena Herd’s fraud conviction was overturned by the CCRC due to the
conviction being unsafe because it relied on data from Horizon. Our records
show that Elena Herd was a member of the CWU between 2009 and 2011, but
we do not have any record of her having contacted the CWU for support in
relation to her case. I was not aware of Elena Herd’s case until Andy Furey
alerted me to it earlier this month. I understand that Andy Furey only became
aware of the case within the last few weeks, after hearing about the evidence
from Andrew Wise to the Inquiry on 20" September 2023. During that session,
Andrew Wise was questioned about his involvement in the investigation of
Elena Herd (INQ00001076).
I am not familiar with the details of either of these cases, but Andy Furey, the
CWU Officer responsible for Post Office matters, may be able to provide more
information.
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CWU involvement in SPM representation and mediation scheme
77.I have been asked to summarise the nature and extent of any involvement the
CWU had in claims by SPMs represented by Shoosmiths in 2011, and POL’s
initial Complaint Review and Mediation Scheme.
78.1 can confirm that I do not believe the CWU had any involvement in the
Shoosmiths claim in 2011 as the CWU did not represent subpostmasters at
that time. I understand that all the claimants in this case were subpostmasters.
79.1 am not aware of any CWU involvement in efforts by SPMs to overturn their
convictions.
80.1 believe that at least two CWU members were involved in POL's initial
Complaint Review and Mediation scheme (as noted in document
CWuU00000076). Mark Baker (former CWU Postmasters Branch Secretary)
should be able to provide more detail on these cases.
CWU relationship with the NFSP
81.1 have been asked to describe the CWU's relationship with the NFSP and
whether this changed following the NFSP’s conversion to a trade association,
after the NFSP was delisted as a trade union.
82.1 can confirm that prior to the NFSP’s conversion to a trade association in 2015,
the CWU and the NFSP held equal status as trade unions, albeit POL only
recognised NFSP for subpostmasters whilst the CWU was only recognised for
POL employees. The NFSP would infrequently meet with the CWU to discuss
some issues such as the future of the Post Office network. We did not work
together in any meaningful capacity nor did we represent any of the same
groups of members before the NFSP was deregistered as a trade union. As
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already described both organisations were members of the Horizon Working
Group in 1999 and 2000.
83.However, the CWU had expressed concerns in 2013 about the lack of
independent representation available to subpostmasters (document
CWu00000001). The creation of the CWU Postmasters Branch in 2014, by
an ex-NFSP member citing a lack of representation from the NFSP, was a
consequence of the NFSP’s inability to serve the interests of its members.
84.As indicated in document CWU00000076 (see p.1 and p.5), the CWU had
carried out some work with the NFSP in early 2015 with a view to a transfer of
engagements of the NFSP to the CWU. However, this was not taken forward
as later in 2015 the NFSP voted to enter into a Memorandum of Understanding
(MoU) with the Post Office.
85.As stated in document CWU00000076, the CWU’s relationship with the NFSP
necessarily changed as a consequence of the MoU in 2015 between POL and
the NFSP. This is because the NFSP lost its status as a trade union and
reconstituted itself as a trade association. Its relationship with POL became
contractual, and the NFSP was no longer independent from POL.
WHISTLEBLOWING
86.1 have been asked to describe any practice, policy or procedure adopted by
the CWU between 2000 or 2019 to enable members or officials to report
wrongdoing in relation to Horizon.
87. The CWU did not adopt a specific whistleblowing policy or practice for our Post
Office members. However, with regards to our directly employed Post Office
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members the CWU had an extensive representative structure. With a high
density of members at the outset of this timeline (2000) the majority of CWU
members employed by the Post Office would be aware of who their CWU
representative was or how to contact their CWU branch. If they wished to
report any wrongdoing, they could contact their Rep/Branch for guidance and
support.
88.With regards to postmasters, we understand that as self-employed agents,
they are not protected by whistleblowing legislation (CWU00000128).
However, our postmaster members would know how to contact the CWU
Postmasters Branch to raise any concerns and to seek guidance and support.
GENERAL
89.1 have been asked to set out my reflections on the extent to which the support
and representation available to SPMs with regards to Horizon was adequate
or inadequate between 2000 and 2019.
90. As a recognised trade union the CWU has robust structures and procedures in
place to represent directly employed Post Office members. I believe this has
enabled the CWU to provide the strongest possible representation on behalf
of our directly employed members. I am not aware of any case in which the
CWU has failed to support a member who has requested help in relation to
Horizon or any other issue.
91. Since the CWU Postmasters Branch was established in 2014, the branch has
intervened many times on behalf of postmasters. However, the CWU has been
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held back in its effectiveness by POL’s refusal to grant the CWU trade union
recognition for postmasters.
92.Based on the experiences conveyed by the subpostmasters who have been
victims of the Horizon scandal, I believe that support and representation for
subpostmasters has been inadequate because the NFSP, which is appointed
and funded by POL and is the main representative body for subpostmasters
has put its own commercial self-interest before the interests of its members. It
has been reported that the NFSP refused to represent its members in relation
to Horizon issues, which is why subpostmasters set up the JFSA in order to
seek justice for wrongful prosecutions and convictions. I also understand that
the NFSP handed back membership cards and refunded membership fees
(including in the case of Lee Castleton) instead of carrying out its duty to
provide support and representation to its members.
Statement of Truth
I believe the content of this statement to be true.
Dated: 21% June 2024
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Index to First Witness Statement of Dave Ward
WITN10070100
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No.
URN
Document
Description
Control Number
Cwuo0000112
Draft CWU Rule
book 2001
Cwuo0000112
Cwuo00000120
Rules for the
Communication
Workers Union
(2004)
Cwuo00000120
NFSP00000066
Minutes of the
Horizon Working
Group meeting on
11 October 1999
VIS00007514
NFSP00000200
Note of a meeting
of the Horizon
Working Group on
7" July 1999
VISO0007648
Cwuo00000103
Correspondence
between Derek
Hodgson (CWU
GS), Alan Johnson
MP (DTI Minister)
and others dated
19% January 2000
VIS00009907
Cwuo00000100
Letter from Derek
Hodgson (CWU
GS) to Alan
Johnson MP (DTI
Minister), dated
24" January 2000
VIS00009904
POL00041564
Computer Weekly
article, Bankruptcy,
prosecution and
disrupted
livelihoods -
Postmasters tell
their story — 11"
May 2009
POL-0038046
Cwuo00000001
CWU letter to all
branches with
postal members,
Post Office:
Findings of
Second Sight
report into Horizon
computer system,
from Andy Furey,
CWU Assistant
VIS00007675
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WITN10070100
Secretary, dated
42% July 2013
RLIT0000220
Written evidence
from CWU to BIS
Committee, 29th
January 2015
RLIT0000220
10
POL00022337
Post Office
Mediation, Oral
Evidence, BIS
Committee, 3rd
February 2015
POL - 0018816
11
Cwuo00000004
CWU letter to
branches from
Andy Furey, CWU
Assistant
Secretary, dated
21% April 2015
VIS00007678
12
CWwuU00000076
National
Federation of Sub-
postmasters, Post
Office Limited and
CWU, CWU NEC
Document, from
Dave Ward and
Simon Sapper,
dated 18" June
2015
VIS00007750
13
POL00267952
CWU warns
subpostmasters of
flaw in PO
accounting
system, Computer
Weekly, 5"
November 2015
POL — BSFF -
0106015
14
POL00321858
CWU circular to
postmasters
forwarded by Karl
Flinders on 3'¢
November 2015
POL-BSFF-
0159908
15
CWu00000129
PO considered
Horizon IT system
‘high risk’ court
told, Computer
Weekly, 12° March
2019
Cwuo00000129
16
Cwuo0000020
CWU letter to
branches from
Andy Furey, dated
12" April 2019
VIS00007694
25 of 26
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WITN10070100
17
cwuo00000029
CWU letter to
branches from
Andy Furey dated
23" December
2019
VIS00007703
18
UKGI00005210
Letter from Dave
Ward, CWU
General Secretary,
to Baroness
Neville-Rolfe,
Minister for
Business,
Innovation and
Skills, dated 15"
June 2015
UKGI016024-001
19
UKGI00005211
Letter from Dave
Ward, CWU
General Secretary,
to Baroness
Neville-Rolfe,
Minister for
Business,
Innovation and
Skills, dated 3°¢
July 2015
UKGI016025-001
20
UKGI00018138
Business, Energy
and Industrial
Strategy
Committee, oral
evidence: Post
Office and
Horizon, HC 143,
10" March 2020
UKGI028145-001
21
INQ00001076
Post Office
Horizon Inquiry,
Phase 4 - 20"
September 2023,
evidence from
Andrew Wise,
former adviser in
the Network
Business Support
Centre
INQ00001076
22
CWuU00000128
Whistleblowing at
work, the law,
ACAS, June 2023
CWU00000128
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