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Witness Name: Tina Louise Jordan
Statement No.: WITN06620100
Dated: II/5/2023
POST OFFICE HORIZON IT INQUIRY
FIRST WITNESS STATEMENT OF TINA LOUISE JORDAN
I, TINA LOUISE JORDAN, will say as follows...
INTRODUCTION
1. I worked for Post Office between 1984 and 2016 as a counter clerk, ABM
(1996-1998), BM (1998-2013), auditor and trainer (2013-2016). Horizon
training was basic, and I learned as I went along over several years until I was
regarded as a go-to person by other BMs and trainers/auditors to problem
solve.
BACKGROUND
2. To begin with, whilst working on the counter I was expected to find any
discrepancies as part of my role. I didn’t experience any issues with balancing
that I attributed to Horizon as we were always told it was our mistake as
Horizon couldn't possibly be wrong.
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The first time I absolutely knew there was a problem was when I was the BM
at Newbury PO. I really cannot remember much of the details, but it was
something to do with a rem in. I used to rem in the stock and then transfer out
to individual stock units. This was done in my own BM stock unit, which was
used for little else, transfers of cash and stock, bulk transactions, that sort of
thing. When I did my weekly balance, I was several thousand pounds out. I
looked for it and rang our helpline to report the discrepancy. I remember
having to chase it as nothing was done and I knew I couldn't possibly be that
much out. I decided to pull of several reports on Horizon, including the whole
weeks’ transactions, rems in and out. I spent hours and hours proving every
entry on my weekly balance to no avail. I then started checking the addition
on some of the reports and even though I'd remmed in and transferred out
stamps correctly, there was a discrepancy between the stamps I had on hand,
what then left on hand. It took weeks of ringing the helpline before an error
notice was issued to correct the issue.
_ I then started working for the audit/training team and was often asked if
Horizon could be wrong by Subpostmasters and I always said no, as I had
only had this one definite issue myself over many years. I used to try and help
Subpostmasters by looking for issues if it was fairly recent or advising them to
contact the helpline. I sometimes found errors but often didn't.
I always felt the training I delivered was very basic — it gave an overview and
balancing was practiced during the classroom training several times, but it
wasn't at all helpful at troubleshooting and problem solving. In-branch training
was dependant on the transactions at that individual branch. If you are shown
how to do something a few times, you won't remember what you were shown
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if it takes months to be relevant — if it takes ages for a balance discrepancy,
the balancer won't have a clue where to look for it. it was then dependant on
how pushy the Subpostmaster was at asking for help and chasing a response.
That's about it as far as support went. To be fair, by the time I was training,
there were fewer and simpler transactions in the majority of branches, so it
shouldn't have been an issue. It’s the bigger branches that seemed to
struggle more. The smaller branches that struggled were when a new
Subpostmaster really wasn’t up to the job and were left to fail despite me
raising concerns.
._ I felt sorry for some postmasters — the ones who seemed conscientious and
cared about what was happening to their business. However, as an auditor, I
was often told by subpostmasters that there was an issue with Horizon and
they were tens of thousand of pounds short and it couldn’t possibly be a
mistake, and yet they were inaccurate, didn’t balance every week and didn’t
have prescribed security processes in place — not all subpostmasters are
honest and would jump on the bandwagon. A couple of branches spring to
mind but there would be others I can’t now recall. Wild Riding in Bracknell was
one branch I thought was dishonest but blamed Horizon. Barton Stacey was a
branch which blamed Horizon but was incompetent despite training and
support given several times, around balancing and mobile vans.
To summarise, I think the training was a “one size fits all” package which
would be ok for most small branches but not the larger ones or ong with GRO
complex transaction’ or lots of transactions. Some of the subpostmasters ~
weren't up to the job and some were dishonest, but most were honest — some
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