Record of Tape
Recorded Interview
Person Interviewed
Place of Interview
Josephine Hamilton (JH) Exhibit No:
Tanner & Taylor Solicitors Office, Aldershot i G RO I
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“Signature of interviewing
officer producing exhibit
Date of Interview 05 May 2006
Time commenced 12.13 Time concluded 12.58
Duration of interview 45 minutes Tape reference no 042769
Interviewing Officer(s) I Graham Brander (GB) Colin Price (CP)
Other persons present Kate Taylor (KT) - Solicitor
Tape Person Text
counter speaking
times
0.10 GB Introductions and voice verification.
1.22 GB Goes through CS001 Legal Rights form, including administering caution and
giving an explanation of it.
6.50 GB Goes through CS003 Post Office Friend form.
9.04 GB States that Kate Taylor gave him a prepared statement prior to the
commencement of the interview. States he will come back to that in a minute.
States that he wants to go back to the day of the audit, 09 March 2006. Asks Jo
Hamilton if it is correct that he attended her house on day of the audit.
9.36 KT Don’t answer any of those questions. Asks if she can have the opportunity to
read out the prepared statement first of all.
9.58 KT Reads out prepared statement. On completion, states that she is advising her
client to answer no comment to all subsequent questions.
GB States that having read the prepared statement there are a number of questions
that he wishes to ask as well as a number of items that he would wish to seek
clarification on.
14.19 GB I appreciate that you said your client is going to answer no comment but is your
client able to clarify anything relating to this prepared statement.
KT States that at this stage will only be putting forward the prepared statement.
GB States to Jo that she wasn't in attendance on day of audit, having gone sick. Is
that correct?
JH No comment.
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17.44 GB
States that she went sick following requests from the Post office to return money
in the region of £25,000. Is that correct?
JH No comment.
cP Asks if she is prepared to name the assistants that work in the Post Office so
that we can get to the bottom of this.
JH No comment.
GB Refers to part of statement stating that due to lack of training all staff use the
same user ID, Were you really not aware that you could create user ID’s/
JH No comment.
GB
States that it is a requirement to comply with the Financial Services Act whereby
it should be possible to identify who has done what transactions. Asks if she has
Tread and signed something to state that she understands and will comply with
the Financial Services Act?
JH No comment.
20.44 GB States that the only user name he can find on Horizon system is JHAOQ01. Is that
your user name?
JH No comment.
GB Are you suggesting that other people work in the Post Office and serve against
the user name JHA001?
JH No comment.
cP States that once again it would help our enquiry if Jo could advise on who works
in the Post Office.
KT States that her advice remains I that her client answers no comment at this.
stage.
22.02 GB States that the auditors found cash on hand to the value of £1,933.48. Showing
on the Horizon system was £37,360.06, a difference of £35,426.58. Are you able
to give any explanation as to why there was such a large difference in the cash
shown on the system to what was actually there?
JH No comment.
GB States that if she isn’t going to answer his questions then he will be treating
everyone who works in the shop as a potential suspect or witness. States that
ultimately he will have to speak to her staff to ascertain who works in the Post
Office and asking them if they have stolen Post Office money. If you're in a
Position to explain this to me and save those ladies having those questions put
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to them, then you've got the opportunity to tell me now.
23.49 JH No comment.
cP Asks if she will give us bank disclosures?
KT Perhaps we can discuss that after the interview.
25.25 GB Shows Branch Trading Statement for period 11. Asks why the cash figure of
£35,515.83, carried forward from previous Trading statement went down to the
£1933.48 found by the auditors.
JH No comment.
GB Can you think of any possible error or genuine reason why it would have dropped
by that amount?
JH No comment.
GB States that the prepared statement mentions lack of training and alleged errors
but he can't see anything on it that would shed any light on the £36,583.12
deficit. So can you help me out in respect of that?
JH No comment.
GB Do you produce the Branch Trading Statements or Cash Accounts?
JH No comment.
GB Are you aware that in producing an account you are declaring that it is the true
cash and stock on hand?
JH No comment.
28.52 GB Have you ever inflated the cash figure on any account at South Warnborough
Post Office?
JH No comment.
GB Asks if the cash figure of £35,515.83 brought forward onto Branch Trading
Statement period 11 was a true amount of cash on hand from the previous
Trading Statement?
JH No comment.
29.52 GB Shows Cash Account Final week 36 (w/e 01/12/04). Asks is that your signature
on the form.
JH No comment.
GB States that it shows a £47.38 shortage. Was that a true reflection of how the
accounts balanced in that week?
JH No comment.
GB Shows the cash on hand figure of £15,951.92. Was that a true amount of cash
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on hand on that day?
JH No comment.
31.10 GB Shows Cash Account Final for week 10 (w/e 01/06/05). Is that your signature on
the top of the form?
JH No comment.
GB States that there is no discrepancy shown. Asks if it is correct that the account
balanced to the penny on that particular week?
JH No comment.
GB Shows cash on hand figure of £19,250.58 and asks if that was a true amount of
cash on hand on that day?
JH No comment?
GB Had that figure been inflated by you on that day?
JH No comment.
32.12 GB Shows Cash Account Final week 24 (w/e 07/09/05). Have you signed that Cash
Account Final?
JH No comment.
GB States that there is a declared shortage of £171.07. Was that a true statement of
how the accounts balanced that week?
JH No comment.
GB Shows cash on hand figure of £23,470.76 and asks if it was a true amount of
cash on hand on that day?
JH No comment.
GB Had you deliberately inflated that cash figure?
JH No comment.
33.21 GB Shows Cash Account final week 28 (w/e 05/10/05). States that it was the last
Cash Account before moving on to monthly Branch Trading Statements. Have
you signed that Cash Account Final?
JH No comment.
GB States that there is a declared shortage of £14.39. Was that a true statement of
how the accounts balanced that week?
JH No comment.
GB Shows cash on hand figure of £26,393.96. Was that a true amount of cash on
hand for the day that was produced?
JH No comment.
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34.49 GB Shows Branch Trading Statement for period 10. States that the cash on hand
figure is £35,515.83. Was that a true amount of cash on hand for that Trading
statement?
JH No comment.
GB States that the discrepancy in the cash found on audit was £35,426.58. States
that this is approximately £90 less than the cash figure shown on Branch Trading
Statement period 10. States that either she was either operating on
approximately £90 or X amount of money has gone missing between that
statement being produced and when the audit was conducted on 09 March.
Are you aware of any problems or errors that had occurred that would have
resulted in any money going missing between those two periods?
JH No comment.
GB Had you stolen any money during that period?
JH No comment.
36.57 GB Have you stolen any Post Office money?
JH No comment.
GB Is that why the cash figures are so high because you got into financial difficulty
and you've gradually been stealing Post Office money and the cash is being
inflated and it's got to the stage where the auditors have come in and only found
£1,900 and something on hand. Is it the case that you've been stealing money
over a period of time from the Post Office?
JH No comment.
GB Is it that you have been deliberately inflated the cash figures to cover the fact
that you have been stealing Post Office money?
JH No comment.
GB Are you aware of anyone else that's stolen Post Office money?
JH No comment.
37.43 GB Has anyone put you under any pressure to steal Post Office money?
JH No comment.
GB Refers to prepared statement and asks her if she can tell him exactly what
training she received.
JH No comment.
GB States that at time she started working at Post Office Horizon had already been
implemented. Asks if she received any training on how to use the Horizon
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system?
JH No comment.
38.58 GB Refers to part of the prepared statement, which says ‘there was nothing very
technical about it’. Refers to section in prepared statement covering balancing
‘which I mastered with the help of one of my staff.
Is that correct that you've mastered the art of balancing?
JH No comment.
GB States that updates are available in a variety of productions including the
Counter News. Do you implement those updates?
JH No comment.
GB States that prepared statement says the manuals were old or out of date and
she was encouraged to ring the Helpdesk. States that is great because if you
don’t know the answer or believe your manuals are out of date then the people
that are going to give you the answer are the Helpdesk. So whenever you had a
problem did you phone the Helpdesk for assistance?
40.49 JH No comment.
GB If you had a problem, did you phone anyone other than the Helpdesk for
assistance?
JH No comment.
GB Refers to prepared statement whereby it alleges a £1,500 error occurred. Asks
when this was?
JH No comment.
GB States that it says that following a telephone call to either the Helpline or Colin
Woodbridge the error doubled to £3,000. States that he has Cash Accounts
going back to 01/12/04 and hasn't come across a deficit of either £1,500 or
£3,000. States that he has produced a schedule detailing deficits in the
accounts, a copy of which was supplied to Kate Taylor.
Would this alleged shortage have occurred prior to 01/12/04?
JH No comment.
GB Even if it had, that's some fifteen months prior to the audit. On 01/12/04 the cash
on hand was £15,951.92. Are you saying that this £3,000 or £1,500 deficit would
have any bearing on the shortage identified on 09/03/06?
JH No comment.
44.44 Buzzer sounds.
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GB States that the tapes are coming to an end. States that during the break she may
wish to consult with her solicitor including whether bank authority disclosure wi
be granted.
45.15 Master Tape seal ref 042769 signed.
GB Advises Jo that during the break in tapes that she remains under caution. States
that when the interview resumes he will go through the legal rights and friend rulr
again
46.08 Tape machine switched off at 12.58.
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