POL00058300 - Letter from Laurence Lee & Co Solicitors to Miss Waters re: Regina v Anne Neild - Application for disclosure

Evidence on official site

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Laurence Lee & Co

fe)I

Miss Waters olicito
Our Ref: LML.BW.JW.NEI 529 West Derby Road

Tuebrook
13" September 2012 Liverpool L19 8A

United Kingdorn
URGENT
By Fax:

Mr Andrew Bolc
Cartwright King Solicitors

DX 14128 Liverpoot

Dear Sirs,

Re; REGINA-V- ANNE NEILD
LIVERPOOL CROWN COURT T2012 0930
FOR TRIAL 17™ OCTOBER 2012

We refer to the above.

We now enclose copy application for disclosure in this matter which was
forwarded to Liverpool Crown Court today.

We trust this assists but should you wish to discuss any aspect of same then
please do not hesitate to contact us.

\HORENCE LEE SCO”

eomai inf ~"} ww faurenceleesoheitors.co.vk
Laurence Lee & Go Soltaitors (incorporating Cyril Carr Laurence Lee & Co)
Laurence M Lee LL.B, Hons John R Ablett LL.B. Hone Alison E Sherples BA Hons <
Regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority

Organtation's SRA No 00044725

vinipat
nyforeeberes
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IN THE CROWN COURT AT LIVERPOOL

REGINA
-V-

ANNE NIELD

APPLICATION FOR DISCLOSURE

The Charge

1. The defendant faces an Indictment containing one Count, namely False
Accounting, contrary to s.17 of the Theft act 1968.

2. The defendant denies that she (a) acted dishonestly and (b) had an
intention to gain or cause loss to any person as set out in her Defence
Statement (Appendix 1).

The Application

3. This application is made under s.8 of the Criminal Procedure and
Investigations Act 1996.

4. The defendant has sought, and been refused by letter dated 28”
“August 2012 (Appendix 2), disclosure of the following:
a. Details of complaints and investigations into the Horizon
computer system;
b. Access to the Horizon computer system used by the defendant
between the installation of the system in 2005 ~ 6" January
2012 for the purposes of expert examination by a Forensic

Accountant.

5. The defendant now seeks an Order of the Court for disclosure of or
access to the items listed at paragraph 4.a. and 4.b. above.
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Background

6.

At the relevant time the Post Office held Sub-postmasters/mistresses
personally liable for any monetary losses incurred by the Post Office
they managed.

. Horizon is a computer accounting system used by the Post Office. It

was introduced to the defendant's Post Office around 2005. Prior to
that the accounting system had been paper-based.

. The defence are aware from articles in the Press and communications

from the House of Commons (Appendix 3) that the Horizon system has
been the subject of much controversy over the past few years and that
a significant number of Sub-postmasters allege that the Horizon system
published incorrect losses on the system. Further, that they have in
many cases been wrongly convicted of False Accounting. The issue is
serious enough to have warranted the involvement of Members of
Parliament, the establishment of an action group ‘Justice for Sub-
postmasters’, the launch of a class action against the Post Office and an

- agreement by the Post Office in June 2012 to appoint an independent

review of some cases.

I. The defence are therefore confident that the Prosecution have in their

possession, or easily accessible to them, records of complaints and
investigations into the Horizon system.

Reasons for Application

Dishonesty

10. The first relevant issue is the question of dishonesty; in particular the

subjective test expounded in the case of R. v. Ghosh [1982] 75
Cr.App.R. 154,

11. The Prosecution case is that the defendant dishonestly attempted to

disguise losses raised by the Horizon system by attributing monies from
other charity accounts to the deficit, rather than re-paying it herself. In
fact, we understand that the Prosecution case is that the defendant
took the money which created the apparent loss on the Horizon
system.

12. When the Jury consider whether the attribution of monies in this way

by the defendant was dishonest it is a relevant consideration whether
or not the losses were ‘real’ and whether they were attributable to her.
If the losses were the result of a computer etror the Jury may well take

2
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avery different view of the defendant’s mental state than they would if
she had taken the money.

Intent to gain or cause loss

13. The second relevant issue is the question of the defendant’s intention;
whether she intended to make a gain for herself or cause loss to
another.

14. If the apparent losses were caused by the defendant taking money
from the Post Office, a Jury will have little difficulty in concluding that
she covered the losses in order to make a gain for herself. Similarly, if
the apparent losses were actually incurred, for example as a result of
the defendant’s human error, the Jury may come to the conclusion that
she covered the losses in order that she did not have to re-pay the Post
Office for losses caused as a result of her errors. However, the Jury may
take a different view of the defendant's intention if the apparent losses
were the result of a computer error such that the defendant neither
gained in fact (by taking the money) nor had any reason to believe that
she owed the money as a result of her own error.

Submissions

15. It is submitted that material which suggests that the Horizon system
has accounting faults is therefore relevant to, and of potential
assistance to, the defence for the reasons outlined at paragraphs 12-14

above,

16. It is submitted that access to the Horizon system by a defence Forensic
Accountant is necessary in an effort to detect faults in the Horizon
system used by this defendant. Further, to identify where the apparent
disguised losses occurred and whether they can be attributed to this
defendant. The case against the defendant both at Trial and in any
subsequent sentence would be very different if it can be established
that the defendant did not take the money herself.

17. Furthermore, if a forensic examination of the Horizon system used by
this defendant reveals that the losses were incurred as a result of
computer error it may be that the Prosecution review the decision that

pursuance of this case is in the pubic interest.

Charlotte Atherton 12™ September 2012

Exchange Chambers
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IN THE CROWN COURT AT LIVERPOOL

REGINA
V-

ANNE NIELD
DEFENCE STATEMENT
Charge: False Accounting, contrary to s.17 of the Theft act 1968.

Date of PCMH: 9" August 2012

Solicitors: Lawrence Lee & Co
529 West Derby Road
Liverpool
L13 8AA

General Nature of the Defence

1. The defendant denies:
(a) that she acted dishonestly; or

(b) that she had an intention to gain or cause loss to any person.

Matters upon which the defendant takes issue with the Prosecution case

2. The defendant takes issue with the prosecution case in the following

ways:

(a) The defendant accepts that losses were shown on the Horizon
computer system from 2005. The defendant does not know how

the losses were incurred, The defendant now believes that such

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a
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losses may have shown as a result of failures in the Horizon

computer system;

(b) Initially the defendant and Angela Sefton repaid the apparent

losses from their own money;

(c} The defendant accepts that as time progressed she was unable
to maintain the repayment of the apparent losses. At this stage,
the defendant accepts that she delayed entering the value of
some cash or cheques onto the Horizon system, Latterly, the
defendant admits that she delayed crediting payments in by
Animals in Need. However, this was not done with a dishonest
intent or with any intention to make a gain or cause the
complainant any loss. Rather, it was a desperate attempt to
make good the apparent losses on the system, At no stage were
Animals in Need ever deprived of any money they paid in,

rather, the crediting of it to their account would be delayed.

(d) When the first shortfall showed on the Horizon system (£4000),
Anne Nield immediately notified Ali Asker, the Sub-Post master.
The Post Office was contacted and a representative attended
but was unable to locate where the shortfall had arisen. Mr Ali
Asker became very angry about the situation. The defendant
found Mr Asker very intimidating. She lives on her own. She
became aware that Mr Asker had been suspended for a number

I Asa result of her fear

of month¢

of Mr Asker, the defendant was too afraid to tell him of the

difficulties with the apparent lossés. The defendant was also
i

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afraid to notify the Post Office as a result of the scale of the

problem.
3. The defendant requests disclosure of the following items:
{a) Any material that points towards other suspects in this case;
(b) Details of any bad character of any prosecution witness;

(c) Details of complaints and investigations into the Horizon

computer system.

4. The defendant takes issue with all evidence that is inconsistent with

the terms of this defence statement.

SIGNED ......

ANNE NIELD

DATED...

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racked Hp, Authorised & regulated by the C 1 '

@ Alist of partnars is svaitable at each office. artwrl i

meee I SEEM _ VAT Reystraton No, 727 8372 98 emma $ OL 1c TT oO RS casemmswelay
ORs Recent

Nottingham I Birmingham I Leicester I Derby! Sheffield I NewcastleGateshead

www.cartwrightking.co.uk

Permanent House
31 Horsefair Street
Private and Confidential resester

Lawrence Lee & Co Solicitors

DX 10825 Leicester

DX 14123 LIVERPOOL Email: andrey
Secure Email; andrew.bole@

Date: 28 August 2012
Our Ref: AB2/24518
Your Ref:

Dear Sirs,

Letter to Defence where there is no material to disclose - ongoing disclosure (Defence
Case Statement)

Rv Anne Nield
Court and Next Hearing: Liverpool Crown Court - 17 October 2012

Disclosure of Prosecution Material under Section 7 Criminal Procedure and Investigations
Act 1996

Ihave considered your defence statement dated 9% August 2012 provided under section 5
Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act (CPIA), Under section 7 CPIA I am required to
disclose to you any prosecution material which has not been previously disclosed and
which might reasonably be expected to assist your defence, as described in your

statement.

On the basis of the defence statement that you provided, I have not identified any further
prosecution material which is digclosable to you in accordance with the CPIA.

Specifically in relation to the points raised in your statement:-

1, There were no other suspects in this case, and no material relating to the same.
2. None known

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3. Your client is charged with false accounting by failing to make entries onto the
Horizon system regarding the deposit slips found, and thus the offence has
occurred outside of the system. Material relating to the Horizon system is therefore
not deemed disclosable at this time.

If you consider that there is other prosecution material which might assist your defence
and which has not already been disclosed, please let me know and I will reconsider my
decision in the light of any further information that you provide. Alternatively, you may
apply to the court under section 8 CPIA. The court will assess your application in the light
of your defence statement,

If you have any query in connection with this letter, please contact me.

Yours sincerely

Bole

Solicitor
Direct Dial:

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. From: The Rt. Hon. James Arbuthnot, M.P.

HOUSE OF COMMONS
LONDON SWI1A 0AA

Miss Bridget Waters
Laurence Lee & Co Solicitors
520 West Derby Road
Tuebrook

Liverpool L13 8AA

Dear Miss Waters,

Re: Your ref BW KJA Nield

Ann Nield of} —

Thank you for your letter of 16 August 2012 to Mr Arbuthnot. am afraid Parliament is currently in
Recess, and Mr Arbuthnot is not at Westminster at present. I am able to answer your queries on his

behalf, and hope this letter may be of help to you.

Mr Arbuthnot has met with senior Post Office personnel, and persuaded them to appoint independent
forensic accountants to investigate a number of cases where SubPostmasters and mistresses believe
that they have been wrongly accused of false accounting. These investigations are now underway.

Should you client wish her case to be considered, she must first approach her own constituency MP,
who is Steve Rotheram MP. There is a Parliamentary convention which does not permit an MP to act
on behalf of another MP’s constituent, and so Mrs Nield must contact Mr Rotheram and let him know
that she wishes her case to be passed to Mr Arbuthnot's office so that we may pass it on, I know this
is circuitous, but MPs do not appreciate other MPs interfering with their own constituency matters,

and so the convention is strictly observed,
Secondly, she must be aware that the details of her case will be passed to the Post Office. They are

passing details on to the investigators, and need these details so that they can gather the relevant
data which the investigators need for their work, If she would like to pursue this course of action, she

does need to be aware of this.

Please come back to me should you require any further details as I am happy to help.

cc Steve Rotheram MP ( and enclosed letter from solicitor)

Website: www.jamesarbuthnot.com

Email; arbuthnot

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“ —

“

Ccrdoure ¢ J aceven 1 Fuk F MORES 1 G4 1 ate 1-400 1 PARALYMPICS

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THURSDAY } 21 JUNE 202 UK

- MPs raise concerns over post office
payment system

Eph] I recommen} }

MPs meet with Post Office officials to raise subpostmasters' concerns over a payment
system that they say has caused inaccuracies for which staff are charged.and held
legally accountable.

‘A group of MPs led by the Conservative James Arbuthict presented a number of cases where
Subpostmasters have been charged with theft and held responsible for false accounting that they
say are the fault of the system they use.

The Horizon system was introduced in 2000 and is used to process Royal Malt services by those
running a post-office within a shop, But since its introduction, subpostmasters have complained
that the system consistently records errors in accounting which they are unable to correct, and
that they are held tidble for the subsequent recorded losses.

‘One subpostmaster was charged with theft and told to pay back £36,000, despite calling the
system's support services when she realised that errors were beng processed.

At first they took money out of her wages to make up the difference in the accotnting errors, and
then took her to court after an auditing vistt.

"I remortgaged my house, borrowed and was generously given enough money to repay. the post
office in full in order to get them to drop the theft chafge,” she sald. "I had to plead guilty to 14
counts of false accounting in (the} Crown Court and only escaped prison because over 70 people

* tumed up to support me,”

Ps are calling for disputed cases to be examined individvalty through a robust, transparent
process. One of the problems raised by the campaign group, Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance,

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‘Arocte Tags Channel 4 News, Ut

http:/Avww.channel4.com/news/mps-raise-concerns-over-post-office-payment-system 30/08/2012
, + MPs yaise concerns.over post office pay)

14-@9-'12 18:41 FROM-

a

ig tat subpostmasters? appeals against theft are dealt with solely by the Post Office, with no
independent arbitrator.

-tetsin the interests of everyone involved - constituents, their MPs, and Post Office Ltd - to get
this matter resolved,” said James Arbuthnot NP, who said he was positive about the meeting's

outcome.

paula Vennells, Post Office Limiteds chief executive said: “The Fast Office continues to have
‘absolute confidence in the robustness and integrity of its branch accounting processes. We have
no hesitation in agreeing to an external review of these few individual cases that have been
raised with us by itr Arbuthnot and some of his Fellow MPS.”

Alan Bates from the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance welcomed that the issue vi being
raised, "but unfortunately 1t only seems to be concentrating on One particular area,” he told
“Channel 4 News. “Theyre purely tooking at false accounting - 8 only ene part of what's wrong,
with Horizon.” : .

He lists issues to do with’a lack of training, lack of access to the system, subpostmasters' liability
for losses and the failure of the system to produce an audit trait.

480uT
About the programme
Frequentty asked questions
Contact us

ment system - Channel 4 News

WETWORE

T-223

Factcheek
Unreported World
Dispatenes

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mu 8 iew i
‘ne bealosetwebate hy MP Welcomes Review Into Post Office Horizon
Homes bor nace ee Accounting System

Local MP, Graham Slvart, welcomes this week's promise by the Pos! Office thot it
will undertake an exfernal review of the Horizon Post Office accounting system,
This announcement follows pressure pul an the Fost Office by MPs, including
Graham,

fing
«Advert
The Horizon accounting system, used in sub post offices, has given risa fo hHereig
controversy over the past few years, with many Sub-posimastess being accused
of fraud and theft, slick-for det

‘At a meeting in Parfament on Monday night MPs robusily questioned Post Otice
Hd Chaiman, Alice Perkins, ond Chief. éxecutive, Foula Vennels, on the refobilly
‘of the system.

Af the meeting the Post Office Chaiman and Chiel Executive agreed to
exomine individually Cases where Sub-posimasters have been held accountable
for monetary losses, which many claim is the foult of the Post Office's electronic
‘accounting system. Horizon,

Graham said" have heord from severot Sub-posimasten who belisve Horizon is
to blame for accounting errors which the Post Office forces them fo pay back
personally. If the fosses aren? repaid the Pos! Olfice moy weil prosecule the Sub-
“postmaster for false accounting,”

Grahara Went on fo say; "have grave concems about Horizon asit seems there
of@ numerous ways in which mistakes could occur, and nol ail of them would be
the Sub-postmasters fault. weols fo the Pos! Office and to the Minister with
responsibilty for Postal Affats cbout Horizon, but both yrole back to soy they had
‘Gbsolule contiderics in, So Im pleased fit following pressure from me ond
by other MPs the Pos! Oifice has now been pushed into looking ot Horizon to see if

Nai there oe ony technical problems wih -Sub-pos!ofces ae al tne heort of our
communities provicing many of our much-needed services, and the last thing we
Mee “nt is people not coming forward fr Ins imporiant work because they dont
feel the Post Office would deol with them in a just and foir monner.”

Easy Accest

Paula Vennoells, Chief Executive of the Past Office said: "The Pos! Office continues
GQ veporrana to hove absolute confidence in.the robustness ond integiy ofits branch
‘gecoynting processes. We have no hesitation in agreeing to on external review
of ihese few individual cotes thal have been raised will us by Mr Arbuthnol ond
some of his felow MPs

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