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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Friday, 4 October 2024
(9.59 am)
MS HODGE: Good morning, sir. Can you see and hear us?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, I can, thank you.
MS HODGE: Thank you. Our first witness today is Rachel
Scarrabelotti. Please could the witness be sworn.
RACHEL SCARRABELOTTI (sworn)
Questioned by MS HODGE
MS HODGE: Please give your full name.
A. Rachel Scarrabelotti.
Q. Ms Scarrabelotti, you've provided six statements to the
Inquiry?
A. Yes.
Q. The first five of which are corporate statements, which
you've provided in your capacity as Company Secretary of
Post Office Limited; is that right?
A. Yes, that's right.
Q._ Inyour sixth statement to the Inquiry, you've given
responses to questions directed to you personally,
concerning matters which have arisen during your
employment as Company Secretary; is that right?
A. Yes, that's right.
Q. My questions for you today will be focused upon your
sixth witness statement but, before we begin examining
your evidence, there are some formalities we need to go
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Yes.
Do you see your signature there?
Yes.
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Is the content of that statement true to the best of
your knowledge and belief?
Yes, itis.
Thank you. Your third statement then, please, bears the
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reference WITN11120300, it's dated 13 March 2024. Do
you have that in front of you?
A. Yes, I do.
That runs to 93 pages but includes a lengthy exhibit.
Can I ask you please to turn to page 15 of that
statement?
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Yes.
Do you see your signature there?
Yes, I do.
Is the content of that statement true to the best of
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your knowledge and belief?
Yes, it is.
Thank you. Your fourth statement, please, bears the
reference WITN11120400, it's dated 28 March this year
and runs to 50 pages; do you have that in front of you?
A. Yes, I do.
Can I ask you, please, to turn to page 33.
A. Yes.
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through to confirm that the contents of your statements
are all true and whether you wish to make any
corrections; is that clear?
Yes.
Thank you. I propose to deal with your statements in
date order, which takes them slightly out of sequence.
Can we begin, please, with your second statement to the
Inquiry that's dated 16 February 2024.
That statement bears the reference WITN11120200. Do
you have a copy of that statement?
Yes, I do thank you.
It should run to 40 pages. Could I ask you, please, to
turn to page 36; do you see your signature there?
Yes, I do.
Is the content of that statement true to the best of
your knowledge and belief?
Yes, it is.
Thank you. Turning then to what's described as your
first statement, that one is dated 20 February, so
post-dates your second statement, and it bears the
reference WITN11120100. Do you have a copy of that
statement in front of you?
Yes, I do.
Thank you. That statement runs to 63 pages. Can I ask
you, please, to turn to page 50?
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Do you see your signature there?
Yes, I do.
Is the content of that statement true to the best of
your knowledge and belief?
Yes, it is.
Next your fifth statement, please, dated 19 July 2024.
It bears the reference WITN11120500.
Mm-hm.
It's three pages in length, containing a correction to
your second witness statement. At page 3, please, do
you see your signature?
Yes, I do.
Is the content of that statement true to the best of
your knowledge and belief?
Yes, it is.
Thank you. Finally, then, dealing with your sixth
statement to the Inquiry, dated 29 August 2024, have you
got a copy of that statement in front of you?
Yes, I do.
That runs to 85 pages. Can I ask you, please, to turn
to page 83?
Yes.
Do you see your signature there?
Yes, I do.
I understand there are some corrections that you wish to
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make in relation to this statement; is that correct?
Yes, please.
So firstly at paragraph 44(c) on page 29; do you have
that before you?
Yes, I do.
At the end of the second line, it reads:
"This is an Executive-level committee ..."
So this a reference to the Historical Remediation
Unit.
Yes.
You describe it as:
"... an Executive-level committee charged with
operational responsibility for the delivery of
remediation matters."
Is it correct that it is, in fact, a business unit,
rather than an Executive-level committee.
Yes, that's right.
Therefore, you would like that to be amended to reflect
the correct position?
That's right, yes.
Then at paragraph 86, please, on page 56 of your
statement, you date the review carried out by Ernst &
Young of the Post Office's whistleblowing policies as
1 June 2023; should that, in fact, read 26 April 2023?
That's right, yes.
Australia in 2002; is that correct?
Yes, that's right.
The following year, you were admitted as a solicitor to
the Supreme Court of Queensland and the Australian
Capital Territory; is that right?
That's right, yes.
You spent your early legal career working in corporate
real estate and real estate investment management in
both Brisbane, Australia, and in London; is that right?
That's right, yes.
In 2011, you were appointed Senior Legal Counsel and
Company Secretary in the investment arm of the
construction and real estate business conducted by
Lendlease; is that right?
That's right, yes.
You transferred to the company's London office in early
2018 to become Legal Counsel and Company Secretary for
the Europe, Middle East and Africa region; is that
correct?
That's right, yes.
In that role you oversaw the corporate governance
arrangements of approximately 260 subsidiary companies:
is that right?
Yes.
You later qualified as a chartered secretary and
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Thank you. Finally, at paragraph 113 on page 68, you
refer to the Post Office's Group Legal Policy, which you
say there has previously been disclosed to the Inquiry.
Is it, in fact, right that the policy had not been
disclosed as at the date on which you signed your
statement?
That's right, yes.
It has now been disclosed --
Yes.
-- and it bears a reference POL00460567; is that
correct?
Yes, that's correct.
Thank you. Subject to the corrections which you've just
made, is the content of your sixth statement, dated
29 August this year, true to the best of your knowledge
and belief?
Yes, it is.
Thank you. You are currently employed as the Company
Secretary of Post Office Limited; is that right?
Yes, that's right.
Before we examine your role as Company Secretary, I want
to ask you some brief questions about your background,
please. You studied law and were later admitted as
a barrister to the Supreme Court of Queensland, the
Federal Court of Australia and the High Court of
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governance professional with the Chartered Governance
Institute UK & Ireland in 2022?
That's right, yes.
Was that before or after you joined the Post Office as
Company Secretary?
That was before.
So turning then to your role as Company Secretary of
Post Office.
Yes.
You joined the Post Office in March 2022; is that
correct?
That's right, yes.
But you weren't formerly admitted or appointed into the
role of Company Secretary until April; is that right?
That's right, yes.
You explain in your statement that part of your role as
Company Secretary is to provide independent advice to
the Board on corporate governance matters; is that
right?
That's correct, yes.
In your role as Company Secretary, you report to the
General Counsel of the Post Office; is that right?
That's right, yes.
Do you think that reporting to the General Counsel
affects your ability to provide independent advice to
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the Post Office Board?
No.
Why is that?
I suppose whilst my reporting line is through to the
General Counsel, I am ultimately accountable to the
Chair and to the Board, so I don't feel that my
independence is at all compromised by virtue of my
reporting line.
Thank you. Could I ask you please to just speak
a little louder. I think, like me, you're quite softly
spoken -- I understand if you sit in between them.
That's meant to be optimal.
Thank you.
I'd like to ask you some questions now about your
training and induction into the role of Company
Secretary. In your statement, you explained you had
a handover meeting with your predecessor --
Yes.
-- and that she supplied you with some handover notes;
is that right?
That's right, yes.
Is it right that you did not take part in any formal
induction programme and you were not provided with any
specific induction materials?
Yes, so nothing -- certainly nothing specific.
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the time about the quality and scope of the training and
induction which you'd received?
No.
What changes do you think need to be made to improve
that situation?
I think for anyone coming in to the Company Secretarial
Team or the Executive Team or the company generally,
I think that they need to be briefed very specifically
‘on, you know, on the main issues that are of relevance,
you know, to the company.
In your role now, what do you consider to be the main
issues affecting the company?
Well, it's probably all of the issues that go to our
core priorities. So our core priorities are
transforming technology, rebuilding trust and improving
branch technology, so I think if people understand the
different issues sitting behind each of those
priorities, and how they can align their efforts with
those priorities, I think that would be very insightful.
Forgive me, I think there's still some difficulty in
hearing your --
Sorry, I'll try to be -- sorry. Pardon me. Yeah.
Thank you. In your role as Company Secretary, you
received requests for matters to be raised with and/or
discussed at meetings of the Board; is that correct?
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You undertook some general training applicable to all
new entrants; is that right?
Yes, that's right.
As well as a series of training courses addressing
a range of topics, such as money laundering, data
protection, bribery and whistleblowing; is that right?
Yes, that's right.
What was your perception as the time you joined as to
the adequacy of your training and induction?
I mean, it was very minimal, what I received, and it did
make it more difficult to get to grips with my role in
good time. Yeah, it made it harder to do the role.
Forgive me, can you elaborate a little: in what sense
did it make if more difficult for you?
Well, I think as Company Secretary you need a deep
understanding of the key issues that are facing the
company and I think, if you're briefed very specifically
on those issues, then that helps you to navigate those,
you know, with greater ease.
So is it the case that you ended up learning on your
feet --
Yes, very much.
-- of these issues in the role --
Yes.
-- that you'd taken on. Did you raise any concerns at
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Yes, that's right.
You then decide first whether the matter is sufficiently
important to warrant being considered by the Board: is
that correct?
Yes, that's right.
Secondly, if the matter does justify the Board's time,
whether it should be dealt with by way of an oral
presentation or simply as a noting paper; is that
correct?
That's right, yes.
Can you please describe the criteria you use to
determine which matters go to the Board and which should
be decided in other groups or committees?
Well, it's probably looking at the matters reserved for
the Board document, which demarcates very clearly where
different items need to come to the Board for decision,
and then it sets out which matters are delegated to
subsidiary boards or which matters are delegated to
committees of the Board, and then it also sets out which
matters are delegated to the Executive, so I'll probably
use that -- you know, as my starting point.
From there?
From there, I guess, if there's, you know, there can be
matters where it's less clear. For example, where the
financial delegation to the Executive -- you know,
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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
a matter could be within that but, because of the risk
profile associated with the item, it would still be
something that you would want to come to Board. So it's
looking at it through that additional lens as well.
In your statement, you characterise your approach in
this way, you say:
“While I am required to exercise a degree of
judgement in relation to the strategic importance of
potential matters when initially deciding on their
inclusion, I generally adopt an overinclusive approach
and err on the side of caution."
Is that right?
Yes.
One of the issues you identify in your statement
concerning the governance of the Post Office relates to
the length of the Board papers and their focus on
operational matters; is that right?
Yes.
What do you consider to be the underlying cause or
causes of that issue?
Sorry, that the Board papers are?
Their length and their focus on operational matters?
I think that people can treat the Board sometimes as
a confessional, so thinking that, if they bring all the
information that they have to Board and tell the Board
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Does it follow that decisions as to precisely what goes
to the Board doesn't rest solely on your shoulders?
That's right. So the -- as I say, the acting CEO and
Chief of Staff will have a look initially at the
proposed draft agenda. They will have insights as to,
you know, what's happening in the business and whether
or not certain matters are actually ready to come. So,
you know, there will be some reduction to the agenda
through that process and the draft agenda also goes to
the Strategic Executive Group, who are given
an opportunity to comment, to, you know, feed in and
their comments, yeah, are taken on board, certainly not
just me devising the agenda.
And then, ultimately, I send the agenda to the Chair
as well, and the Chair themselves needs to be happy and
content with what's proposed -- or perhaps it's just
content -- with what is proposed to come to the Board.
Thank you.
What, if any, changes have been implemented to
address the problem you described about the length of
Board papers and their focus on operational matters?
So since the Interim Chair joined, we've brought in new
restrictions on paper length to try to ensure that
papers are more strategically focused, so they're more
pithy, more punchy and, you know, so paper authors --
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everything, that it will somehow alleviate them of their
responsibility.
What are the consequences, do you think, from
a governance perspective, of the Board being
overburdened with the detail of operational matters?
I think that it blurs lines of accountability. I think
that respect, perhaps, is lost for the Board because
they're associated with operational matters, which are
for the Executive, and that the Board ultimately doesn't
get to fulfil their proper function and be the Board.
Do you think that your own approach of being
overinclusive in relation to the Board agenda items
might be contributing to that problem?
Possibly but I would say that we do go through
an exercise with the -- it was the CEO, now it's the
Acting CEO and Chief of Staff, where we do look to
whittle down, you know, the first agenda that I -- you
know, the draft agenda that I prepare and, you know, we
need to make some tough decisions about what actually
does go to the Board. And, you know, matters too can be
deferred to later agendas. So yeah, I don't think
it's -- I don't think it does contribute.
You've described there a process of consultation --
Yes.
-- with some of the senior executives of the company.
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you know, you don't have a lot of opportunity, I guess.
You've got to get in there in the paper pretty quick
smart, advise, you know, what you want, why you want it,
and get out.
So I think, you know, that's helping: having a more
restricted paper length. That's -- yeah, that's
probably one of the main changes.
Thank you, I'd like to move on to a new topic, please,
concerning your knowledge of the Horizon IT system?
Yes.
Prior to joining the Post Office you had some awareness,
you say, of the issues relating to Horizon from
information reported in the media; is that right?
Yes, that's right.
Since you joined the Post Office in March 2020, you say
you've complete a short training session relating to the
‘outcome of the Group Litigation; is that right?
Yes.
You've also reviewed materials submitted to the Board in
Executive meetings relating to Horizon and, in
particular, the programme to replace it; is that
correct?
Yes, that's right.
In your statement you say that you've developed some
understanding of the Horizon IT system from reading
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those materials; is that correct?
Yes.
Please can we take a brief look at what you say on this
topic at paragraph 8 of your statement. This is
statement number 6, WITN11120600 at page 4, please.
Thank you. If we could scroll down, please, to
paragraph 8. Thank you. So five lines down you say
this:
"From the materials I have reviewed, my
understanding is that whilst there have been different
versions of Horizon provided since it was first
introduced, the Horizon IT system is considered to be
aged and difficult to update in the case of new
products."
Just pausing there, from where within the Post
Office do you understand this information about Horizon
to originate?
Sort of in relation to it being aged and difficult to
update, well, probably from the IT function, yeah.
What have you gleaned from reading the materials
submitted to the Board and the Strategic Executive Group
about the reliability of the current version of Horizon?
I understand that it is thought to be reasonably
reliable.
You go on to say in your statement:
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have been both accurate and timely in relation to those
problems which you've described?
I don't think so, to be honest.
So I'm going to move on, please to the cultural
attitudes within the Post Office to postmasters. In
your statement you describe the many initiatives which
have been launched to bring about cultural change within
the Post Office.
Yes.
These include the establishment of an Improvement
Delivery Group --
Yes.
-- the creation of an ethos programme --
Yes.
-- the establishment of a dedicated committee and unit
to deal with remediation issues --
Yes.
-- and the creation of a new Postmaster Director role
within the Executive Team of the Post Office?
That's right, yes.
There are more but those are perhaps some of the major
initiatives that have been undertaken; is that fair?
Yes, that's fair.
Would it be fair to say that you don't believe these
initiatives have been entirely successful in bringing
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"I have also attended employee sessions introducing
NBIT, which have highlighted to me the more
labour-intensive nature of the Horizon IT system for
postmasters, for example, in terms of the training
required and transaction times, along with difficulties
for postmasters in extracting transaction data from
Horizon."
The Inquiry has heard evidence about the significant
challenges which have beset the New Branch IT programme.
What is your view, as Company Secretary, as to the
adequacy of reporting to the Board on the problems which
have been experienced with that programme?
So I understand that the problems are in relation to
delays, problems in relation to costs and then also
problems in relation to the numbers of defects, so bugs,
errors, defects in the system. So sort of, as a pretty
much a standing agenda item, pretty much since I joined
Post Office, on the Board agenda would be an update on
the progress of the NBIT SPM programme. So, I mean,
it's very difficult to say. I mean, you know, we sort
of rely very much on the Executive to be bringing
forward, you know, programme reports, but the Board,
yeah, absolutely, has been periodically regularly
updated on the programme by the Executive.
Do you consider that the updates the Board has received
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about the cultural change which is needed within the
Post Office?
Yes, I think that's fair.
You identify in your statement a number of factors which
you believe have impeded the progress of cultural
change. I wonder if we could look, please, at
paragraph 50 of your statement, where you set out some
of these factors. That's at page 37, please.
So one of the first factors you identify is the
impact of the Covid-19 pandemic and the result this had,
initially requiring individuals to work from home and
subsequently the less frequent attendance in the office;
is that correct?
Yes.
Secondly, you refer here to the large number of
fixed-term contract employees within the Post Office,
working both within the Remediation Unit and in the
delivery of the NBIT programme?
Yes.
Finally, you say this, please, so this is four lines up
from the bottom:
“Another consideration is whether the above
activities to drive cultural change have been as
effective as possible, particularly having regard to the
long tenure of some [Post Office] employees, who may
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have held certain views for an extended period of time."
I'd like to ask you some questions about that final
comment, please. The Inquiry has heard evidence from
two Postmaster Non-Executive Directors that there's
a prevailing attitude within the Post Office that
postmasters are guilty and "on the take". Are those the
types of views to which you are referring here?
Yes, I think my point there was just to say that, you
know, where there have been employees who have served in
the business perhaps for a number of years and were
previously part of the Royal Mail Group, joined Post
Office, have remained with Post Office post-separation,
that perhaps, culturally, they're in a different place
to others at Post Office.
What exactly do you mean when you say that they're in
a different place?
In terms of their attitudes towards postmasters.
As to their guilt?
I think as to their honesty, yes.
As to their honest and their integrity?
Yes.
Do you consider that these views remain prevalent within
a particular area of the business or are widespread
across the Post Office?
I don't think that they're widespread or prevalent, but
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driven and controlled by an external narrative?
I think the point there is that there's been a few
unfortunate incidents where the media has reported on
different circumstances arising at Post Office, and the
reporting has taken place ahead of employee colleagues
being advised. So I think that does make it very, very
difficult.
Is the phrase "external narrative" one which is, to your
knowledge, widely used within the Post Office; is it
something with which you're familiar as a term?
No, I don't -- I'm not particularly familiar with that
phase.
Could it be referring, do you think, to the external
pressure to exonerate and compensate postmasters who
were held liable for shortfalls shown by Horizon?
Possibly.
Does this theme demonstrate, do you think, that there
are many within the Post Office who disagree with that
narrative, that is to say that pressure to exonerate and
compensate postmasters?
I don't think that that's true.
One of the issues on which the Inquiry has heard
evidence already in this phase concerns the suitability
of certain Post Office employees to hold roles within
the Remediation Unit --
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I think my point here was just to say, given the long
serving tenure of certain employees, you know, that it
can be difficult to achieve cultural change in those
circumstances.
You've referred in your statement to an Engagement
Survey which was undertaken with Post Office employees
earlier this year.
Yes.
I'd like to ask you about one of the themes which
emerged from the survey please?
Yes.
That bears a reference POL00446681. Please can that be
shown on the screen. If we could turn, please, to the
second page, we can see there a high level summary of
the themes which emerged from the responses to that
survey. Under number 3, please, it reads:
“Poor communication is driving a lack of confidence
in Post Office and senior management from other
colleagues.
"This is directly impacting their sense of pride and
belief in Post Office. This appears to be exacerbated
at present because Post Office's communications are
driven, and controlled, by the external narrative."
What do you understand, please, by that final
reference to the Post Office's communications being
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Yes.
-- due to their historic involvement, for example, in
the conduct of audits and investigations.
(The witness nodded)
Were you aware of the concerns expressed by the
Postmaster Non-Executive Directors earlier this year
about the progress being made to address the potential
conflicts of interest within that unit?
Yes.
Do you consider that the senior Executive Team has given
that issue sufficient prominence and priority in light
of the ongoing cultural problems which exist within the
organisation?
I think in recent times they have, yes.
By "recent times” you mean?
Probably over the course of this year.
From a governance perspective, do you consider that this
is an issue on which the Board of the Post Office should
have greater oversight and input than it currently does?
I think that they've had a reasonable amount of
oversight. You know, the matter -- Past Roles
Review/Project Phoenix has come to the Board absolutely
periodically. I think the Board are probably due for
another comprehensive update around this time.
The Board is due an update?
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Yes.
Thank you. II'd like to move on to a new topic, please,
concerning the culture and composition of the Post
Office Board --
Yes.
-- and the Senior Executive Team. You've explained in
your statement that it's difficult to identify
a discernible culture within the Post Office Board due
to the high turnover of directors in recent years; is
that right?
That's right.
One concern you raise in your statement relates to the
diversity of Board members?
Yes.
In what respects do you consider the diversity of the
Post Office Board could be improved?
Well, definitely gender diversity. So, currently, we
have two female directors which is sort of, you know,
tracking sort of well below, you know, generally
accepted percentages for, you know, the composition of
boards as to gender. I think, in terms of ethnic
diversity as well, we could improve there. You know,
the Board should, you know, be reflective of our main
stakeholders, so customers, postmasters. Possibly, we
could have greater diversity of age as well.
25
At the Post Office?
Post Office, it's not an easy place to work. It's very,
very stressful. I suppose at the Strategic Executive
Group level, you know, previously walking into a room
full of men, I mean, that can be very intimidating, but
I think it's just the general pressures of working at
Post Office. That's, you know, not attractive.
In your statement, you say that the decision to appoint
two Postmaster Non-Executive Directors was part of
an effort to build a culture of inclusion for
postmasters at the Post Office Board level; is that
correct?
Yes.
You acknowledge that this change has brought certain
benefits to the Board including a greater insight into
the issues and concerns affecting postmasters; is that
right?
Yes.
Would it, nonetheless, be fair to say that it's brought
some challenges, as well, from a governance perspective?
Yes, I think that's fair.
What do you consider those challenges to be?
Probably navigating through conflicts of interest for
the Postmaster Directors because, obviously, being
postmasters, we have to be very careful of personal
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In his evidence to the Inquiry, Mr Staunton, the former
Chair of the Post Office Board, expressed his concern
about the retention of talented women in senior roles
within the Post Office; is that a concern which you
share?
Sorry, could you repeat the question?
Yes, so the statement was this initially: in his
evidence to the Inquiry, Mr Staunton, the former Chair
of the Post Office, expressed some concern about the
retention of talented women in senior roles within the
Post Office. My question to you is: is that a concern
which you share?
Yes, it is.
Why is that?
I suppose at Board level -- so, unfortunately, we had
‘our three female directors all leave in reasonably quick
succession in 2023; and, on the Senior Executive Group,
unfortunately we had only one female member for quite
a long period, that was the CPO; and, currently, the
Strategic Executive Group is better balanced by way of
gender but it is absolutely a concern having gender
diversity in those top forums.
What do you understand to be the underlying causes of
the problem in retaining talented women in senior roles?
At the Post Office?
26
conflict matters. I think we've had issues in terms
of -- the Postmaster Directors are incredible with their
‘operational knowledge and, you know, their know-how,
their abilities, amazing, but the Board is not charged
with responsibility for day-to-day operational matters.
That's with the Executive. So we have to be very
careful that the Board doesn't stray into matters for
the Executive.
You referred to conflicts of interest. I think in your
statement you described it as a potential lack of
alignment between the needs and desires of postmasters
and the wider interests of the business and its
shareholders; is that fair?
Um --
Or would you say that is yet another issue --
Yes.
-- a separate issue?
I think what I was trying to get at there was, you know,
directors’ duties. So, obviously, the Postmaster
Non-Executive Directors, as directors of the company,
are subject to the same duties as all of the other
directors, which is to, you know, act in the best
interests of the company, having regard to a number of
different matters, including, you know, stakeholders,
but ultimately acting for the benefit of the
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shareholder. So, to me, that seems -- you know, it
doesn't necessarily align always with what is in the
best interests of postmasters.
Where specifically do you see the areas of conflict?
Is it conflict or non-alignment?
Well, lack of alignment.
Lack of alignment. Well, I suppose, you know, if you
just go to, you know, a basic issue such as postmaster
remuneration, you know, the company is cash constrained,
directors, unfortunately, have had to consider wrongful
trading issues, you know, very recently and make some
very, very tough decisions around how our finite funds
are spent. So, you know, whilst I think, you know,
yeah, everyone would love to improve postmaster
remuneration, at the same time, you know, the Board are
thinking of, you know, wrongful trading issues.
So it's marrying up, you know, keeping the company
alive and floating as against, you know, sort of the
stark reality of postmasters', you know, remuneration
remaining, you know, very flat.
You've suggested in your statement that there might be
better ways in which to bring the voice of the
postmasters into the Post Office; is that right?
Yes.
One of the options which you mention is the appointment
29
fulfilling their duties and acting in the best interests
of the company, but for the benefit of the shareholder,
that shareholder would be postmasters.
Is there potential, do you think, for a lack of
alignment between the interests of postmasters and Post
Office employees, assuming that ownership is shared
between those two different groups?
Potentially, but my experience of working at Post Office
is that the people who, you know, have joined, you know,
particularly recently are very much attracted and choose
very, very specifically to come work for the Post Office
because they believe in, you know, the Post Office as --
you know, the institution of the Post Office. So
they're very, very particularly attracted to work for
the company for, you know, that reason.
Does it follow that they, in your view, have a more
positive attitude towards postmasters?
Yes.
I'd like to ask you some questions now about the
internal investigation into one of the Postmaster
Non-Executive Directors, Mr Jacobs.
Yes.
When did you first become aware that an internal
investigation was being launched into Mr Jacobs’ branch
accounting?
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of more postmaster representatives within the Executive
Team of the Post Office?
Yes.
What do you consider to be the advantages of that
approach?
Well, I think, as I mentioned before, I mean, our
Postmaster Non-Executive Directors have demonstrated
their -- you know, their operational expertise, the
Executive is charged with day-to-day responsibility for
operational matters. So, to my mind it's a matter of
harnessing the -- you know, the best knowledge that the
postmasters have and incorporating them within the
most -- you know, perhaps the forum where they can
achieve the most, which would be, you know, potentially
by having more postmasters at the Executive level.
Another possibility which you mention in your statement
is the mutualisation of the Post Office.
Yes.
What do you consider to be the potential advantages of
adopting that approach to ownership and governance of
the company?
Okay, I'm not an expert in mutuals or cooperatives.
But, to my mind, the benefit would be that the ultimate
shareholding would be with postmasters and potentially
employees of the company. So when directors are
30
I think it was in September '22.
Who brought the matter to your attention?
Nick Read.
What was your reaction on being told that a member of
the Post Office Board was being investigated for
apparent shortfalls in his branch accounts?
I was concerned.
Why is that?
Well, I was concerned from probably a company
secretarial perspective, thinking through to our annual
report and accounts and different potential disclosures
that might need to be made. I was thinking of different
Board meetings where branch discrepancies and the
approach to those had been discussed and whether or not
there was a conflict point there that had been missed,
potentially. And, you know, I was concerned for Elliot,
as well.
What action did you take when you were notified that
an investigation into Mr Jacobs had commenced?
So my first action after Mr Read told me about the issue
was to let my line manager know, the then -- our current
General Counsel, and my proposal was to check some of
the data points that I had available to me to see if
they could put any illumination, you know, onto the
issue. The General Counsel advised me that Mr Read
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should, you know, take -- or should look to transfer
this matter potentially into an investigation, and
that's then what happened.
Q._ Sorry, just to explore with you, then, the reporting of
this issue.
A. Yes.
Q. You say that the CEO, Mr Read, reported the matter to
you and that you reported it on to General Counsel,
Mr Foat?
A. That's right, yes.
Q. Whyis it, do you know, that the matter came first to
Mr Read as CEO, rather than Mr Foat as General Counsel,
who had overall oversight and responsibility for
internal investigations?
A. Well, I guess, you know, an issue of this sort, I don't
think that it would be unusual for it to be notified to
the CEO.
Q. So you brought it to the attention of Mr Foat.
Yes, I did.
Q. It was his direction, was it, that an internal
investigation be launched?
A. That was his suggestion as to the approach, yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, can I just interrupt, I'm not
sure I've got this straight. When Mr Read notified you
that -- I'll use the neutral word -- "something" was
33
>
of: was this coming to Mr Read, so far as you can tell,
from some kind of not formal investigation but something
that the investigating department had been doing, or was
it unrelated to the Investigating Department?
A. Yes, my understanding was it was unrelated to the
Investigating Department.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: All right, okay. Fine. Sorry. So then
the steps occurred as you've described: Mr Read to you;
you to Mr Foat; and Mr Foat deciding that there'd better
be an investigation?
A. Yes, that's right, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, all right. Fine.
MS HODGE: Thank you. I wonder if we could pull up, please,
an email which you wrote to the then Chair, Mr Staunton,
in late February 2023. It's POL00448679, please. If we
scroll down, please, to the top of page 2, thank you, we
can see there an email you've addressed to Mr Staunton
on 28 February 2023, copying in Mr Read, Mr Foat,
Mr Patel and Mr Tidswell, the subject being the
Postmaster Non-Executive Director matter.
Forgive me, that's the bottom of page 1. Can we go
down to the top of page 2, please. Thank you. So what
we saw just there was Mr Staunton's response. This is
your email of the same date, 28 February, addressed to
Mr Staunton, Mr Read, Mr Foat, Mr Patel and Mr Tidswell.
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happening in relation to Mr Elliot (sic), was there, by
that time, in your view, a formal investigation
‘occurring or was it simply that people in the
Investigation Department were in discussion with
Mr Elliot?
A. Sir, so at the time that Mr Read spoke to me,
I understand that there was no investigation going on
and that the Investigations Unit had not been advised at
that time.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So Mr Read was effectively notifying you
that obviously someone must have alerted him to the
possibility of an investigation; is that a fair way of
putting it?
A. (The witness nodded)
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: What! can't quite grasp at the moment is
what was said to Mr Read. Now, I appreciate you don't
know that but, from your understanding, what was it that
Mr Read was communicating to you?
A. Mr Read was communicating to me that there was
a potential issue.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Right. Someone must have told him that.
A. Yes.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: He wouldn't know that without -- yeah.
A. Yes, absolutely.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So what I'm trying to get to the bottom
34
It reads:
"Hi Henry,
"I hope you've arrived back safe and sound.
“I understand you have been advised previously of
the investigation into apparent shortfalls in branches
held by Elliot Jacobs. By way of reminder
Then you provide a brief overview of the
investigation. So it reads:
"[Mr Jacobs] owns a business, Universal Office
Equipment, which runs seven premises containing post
offices;
"Since early 2019, UOE has accumulated shortfalls in
the operation of its post office business;
"Prior to [Mr Jacobs] becoming a [Non-Executive
Director] he repaid some of the shortfall but since
becoming a [Director], he has not engaged with the
repayment process nor challenged the shortfalls;
"Each month the [Post Office] team responsible for
recovering agreed shortfalls has sent [Mr Jacobs]
a statement showing the outstanding amounts;
"Training has been offered but not taken up:
"The uncontested shortfall now sits around
£213,000."
I'm just pausing there. Given that shortfalls had
reportedly been accumulating since early 2019, what do
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you understand to have been the trigger for the
reporting of this issue, that is to say a shortfall in
his accounts to Mr Read?
I think perhaps it was that repayment had been made
previously, however it had stopped, and it had stopped
following the time when Elliot joined the Board. So
I think perhaps it was that that then prompted Mr Read
being advised, and I think it was that -- you know,
concems that Elliot was not engaging with the support
centre in respect of the alleged shortfalls.
Was there a concern, do you think, that Mr Jacobs was
abusing his position as a director to avoid making
repayments of accounting shortfalls?
I don't know.
The email goes on to say:
"[Mr Jacobs] is in the process of seeking to take on
a further two post office premises ..."
It then says, "CIU". That's a reference to the
Central Investigations Unit; is that correct?
That's right, yes.
"... is investigating under Project Venus [firstly]
whether [Mr Jacobs] should have declared his shortfalls
in the process of becoming a [Director]; [secondly] the
extent of the shortfalls; [and thirdly] whether
[Mr Jacobs] declared a conflict during Board meetings
37
repeat the question again?
Yes, sorry. My question was whether you gave any
thought at the time as to whether it was appropriate for
the Post Office to launch an investigation into one of
its Board members, based -- and this is an assumption --
but assuming it was based solely on evidence -- on data
shown on Horizon, rather than actual audit itself of the
branch accounts?
I don't think I can say.
The email goes on to say this:
"Nick Read, Ben Foat and I would like to see you,
tomorrow if possible, to request that you consider
meeting with Elliot to discuss this matter, particularly
ahead of the next Board meeting. In terms of your
meeting with Elliot, we suggest the following points are
covered ..."
You go on to identify there potential areas of
conflict arising from this outstanding shortfall and the
Board's treatment of recoveries of accounting
shortfalls, and you make number of proposals to
Mr Staunton as to how to manage those conflicts. If we
could scroll down, please, to the top of page 3 -- thank
you -- we see a further list of bullet points and it's
here that you explain really how the process is going to
proceed. You say this:
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where recoveries from postmasters was discussed.”
So that latter one being a concern which you have
addressed already in your evidence today, the potential
for a conflict to have arisen and not been declared.
Yes.
The final bullet point reads:
“Branch assurance are to visit all seven of
[Mr Jacobs’ locations to settle a full cash and stock
position in mid-April 2023."
That suggests, does it not, that no audit had yet
been undertaken of Mr Jacobs' seven branches.
Yes, I think that's right.
It must follow, does it not, that the estimated figure
of £213,000 had, therefore, been based upon the data
shown on Horizon; is that consistent with your.
understanding?
I mean, I'm not sure how that figure was built up.
Did you give any thought at the time as to whether it
was appropriate for the Post Office to launch a formal
investigation in a one of its Board members, based on
accounting data shown by Horizon?
I mean, I think it was very difficult but I think the
Board were very concerned to ensure that, you know, the
postmaster policies were applied equally to our
Postmaster Non-Executive Directors. Sorry, could you
38
"As with other shortfall matters, Branch Assurance
visits will take place, scheduled for April, to
determine a stock and cash position.
“After that, the team will then seek to discuss with
[Mr Jacobs] this position.
"Once the investigation [presumably 'is completed’
it should say] the Chair and [Mr Jacobs] can discuss
a way forward ..."
You say this:
“It would be a positive step for [Mr Jacobs] to
re-engage with the Postmaster Account Support Team ..."
Can you explain what the role and function of that
team is, please?
So I think that team is responsible for liaising with
postmasters where there are branch discrepancies
reported.
When you say “liaising” it's described as a support
team. What's the nature of their role and function in
that process?
I think it's to -- you know, to work through, you know,
whatever the issue is. So to, if there is an alleged,
you know, shortfall, to work with them, you know, to
break it down, you know, to understand, you know, the
nature of the shortfall, to test it, and to, you know,
try to determine if there was actually a shortfall.
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So would it be right to say that the role of that team
is part of the investigative function; it's not there to
provide what might be thought as some form of support to
the postmaster, pastoral or otherwise, in the
investigation?
They're not -- my understanding is that team is not part
of the investigation -- investigative unit.
So what role then does it play in the investigation?
What you've described is it's there to get to look into
and get to the bottom of the cause of the discrepancy?
Yes.
Is that on behalf of the postmaster, rather than on
behalf of the Post Office?
I think it's both.
Your email goes on to say:
"It would be really helpful to have [Mr Jacobs']
view as to why the shortfalls have spiked recently --
(either now if he has a view and freely offers it,
ordering the investigative meeting post-branch visits)
You say:
“If Elliot asks about the post-Branch Visit
investigative meeting, the CIU team will write to Elliot
in advance, explaining what they propose to discuss,
what the purpose is, and to advise that he can bring
41
capacity as Company Secretary?
I don't recall that I did, no.
Do you think that you should have?
Potentially, yes.
The Inquiry has heard evidence from Mr Jacobs about the
considerable distress which this investigation caused
him.
Yes.
Did you listen to Mr Jacobs' evidence to the Inquiry
last week?
Yes, I did.
You offer some reflections in your statement as to what
might have gone wrong in the conduct of this particular
investigation.
Yes.
Can we take a brief look at what you say, please, at
paragraph 118 of your statement on page 71. That's your
sixth statement, please, WITN11120600. Thank you. You
say this:
"In hindsight, while it was certainly important to
ensure that there was no appearance of bias or special
treatment, in my view perhaps further thought could have
been given as to whether sufficient support was extended
to Mr Jacobs during the investigation process."
Who, in your view, was responsible for ensuring that
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a friend to that meeting or an NFSP rep or even a legal
rep if he would like. It is not an under-caution
interview and we are not conducting a criminal
investigation. We are looking to understand why these
shortfalls occurred and what can be done to rectify the
position in terms of understanding and perhaps provision
of training to his staff ..."
If we control back up to the top of the document,
please -- thank you -- we can see there was a plan for
you, Mr Read and Mr Foat to meet with Mr Staunton the
following day.
Yes.
Did that meeting take place?
Yes, it did.
How did Mr Staunton react when you told him that
Mr Elliot (sic) was being investigated for accounting
shortfalls?
I think he was concerned but I think he was also --
I wouldn't say relaxed but, you know, he appreciated
that a process would be gone through.
Did Mr Staunton ask you for any advice about the
propriety of the Post Office carrying out such
an investigation into one of its Board members?
No.
Did you offer any advice or support to Mr Jacobs in your
42
Mr Jacobs was suitably supported through that process?
Probably -- as we've just said, probably myself; perhaps
the Senior Independent Director as well.
You go on to say this:
"This is especially given the events that have
occurred in [Post Office's] recent past regarding its
investigation processes.”
You then say:
“Moreover, the fact that Mr Jacobs did not
necessarily come from a professional services
background, and therefore may not have had the same
degree of experience as other [Post Office] Board
members in dealing with some of the matters which
I understand were raised during the investigation, could
also have been taken into consideration."
You make reference there to some of the matters that
were raised during the investigation. What specifically
are you referring to here, please?
So referring to the allegations that I understand were
put to Elliot in respect of failure to declare
a conflict at the Board meetings where branch
discrepancies were being -- and the approach to branch
discrepancies were being considered by the Board; and
the other allegation that Mr Jacobs, Elliot, hadn't
properly completed a directors' emoluments form.
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Q. Why do you think his experience might have been
different, had he had a professional services
background, as you say?
A. Well, something like a directors' emoluments form, if
you're a portfolio director or you're a senior lawyer or
a senior accountant, you know, you would probably
approach that form on a very different knowledge basis,
as opposed to, you know, to Elliot, so, you know,
a businessman, a retailer, an entrepreneur.
Q. In your statement, you suggest this may be a learning
issue in terms of the quality of the induction and
training that Mr Jacobs received upon his appointment;
is that fair?
A. Yes, that's fair.
Q. Do you think there's any merit in the suggestion that
the CIU was heavy handed in its conduct and handling of
this investigation?
A. I mean, I'm not sure, to be honest but, given the
reflections that Elliot shared with Board, he had found
it a -- you know, a very, very unpleasant experience.
MS HODGE: Thank you, sir.
That brings me to the end of that topic rather than
launching into my next topic, which is likely to take
a bit longer, I wonder if now would be a convenient time
to take our morning break?
45
you know why Mr Foat thought it appropriate to --
Oh, it's up now. Next page, I think. Never mind,
forget that.
Do you know why Mr Foat thought it appropriate to
have an investigation, as opposed to treating it, as
Mr Elliot thought was appropriate, as a business issue
to be discussed? I'm not here talking about the
conflict part of this; I'm talking about the apparent
shortfall part of this, all right?
A. No, sir, I'm not sure as to why this was tipped in to
being an investigation, as opposed to being dealt with
by -- you know, with the Branch Support Team, for
example.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: As between Mr Foat and yourself, it was
simply you reporting Mr Read's report to you, and
Mr Foat himself deciding it should be an investigation?
A. Yes.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right. Thanks.
Now we can have our break, Ms Hodge. What time
shall we start again?
MS HODGE: Thank you, sir. If we perhaps resume at 11.25,
please.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Fine.
(11.07 am)
(A short break)
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‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: It would be but can I just ask one or two
A.
further questions about this issue.
When he gave evidence, if my recollection is
correct, Mr Elliot (sic) was obviously upset about the
process involving the -- I'll call it an interview.
There's some debate about how it was to be described,
but the interview which took place between the
investigators and himself, all right?
Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: But he also went on to say that,
A.
following that interview, he then dealt with a different
team and the whole issue was dealt much more as
a business issue, as opposed to an investigation issue,
all right?
Am I right in thinking that, if we go back to the
email that you wrote, that the unit -- I've forgotten
the name, sorry, without the email in front of me, but
Mr Elliot did begin to engage, however it came about,
not with investigators but with the branch support
people that you had mentioned in your email. Have I got
that right?
Yes, I think Mr -- Elliot had engaged initially with the
branch support people, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes. Well, anyway, I'm giving you that
by way of background. I wanted to ask you simply: do
46
(11.25 pm)
MS HODGE: Good morning, sir. Can you see and hear us?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, thank you.
MS HODGE: Thank you.
I'd like to move now, Ms Scarrabelotti, to a new
topic, please, concerning the Board's oversight of the
Post Office's policy of passing information to the
police to assist in the conduct of criminal
investigations and any subsequent prosecutions.
What were you told, upon joining the Post Office in
March 2022, about the company's approach to the conduct
of criminal investigations and prosecutions?
In respect of prosecutions, that the company was, and
had not for a number of years, carried out any
prosecutions, and, in relation to the conduct of
criminal investigations, I understand, at the time that
I joined, the Central Investigations Unit, was being
sort of, you know, recruited for and brought together to
set up a new business unit internally to deal with
investigations.
Do you recall when it was first proposed that a change
be made to the company’s policy governing the provision
of evidence to the police in the support of a criminal
investigation?
I think this was in October 2023, when a paper came to
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the Board, and I think the paper was more sounding out
the potential views of the Board in relation to making,
you know, changes to the policy specifically in relation
to how evidence could be passed to the police.
Can we please take a brief look at the minutes of that
meeting of the Post Office Board, dated 31 October 2023.
They bear the reference POL00458017.
So the relevant item is at number 9, on page 15,
please. So item 9.1 bears the title "Disclosure of
Evidence to Support Police Investigations". It makes
reference to three documents that were tabled and noted
at the meeting: firstly, a request for evidence released
to Police Scotland and discussion of broader policy
change, that's the title of the report; and then two
appendices, one, a draft of the witness statement for
Police Scotland; and, secondly, a summary of the Portree
case.
As you can see the details of the Board discussion
have been redacted and so too have the relevant
documents in the Board pack which has been disclosed to
the Inquiry. Without going into the details or the
specifics of that particular case, can you please
explain the background to the inclusion of this agenda
item, so far as you recall?
Yes, so I think that the -- there were two matters
49
Do you recall whether, at this meeting, the members of
the Board were in agreement with the proposal to
delegate responsibility for that decision making?
They were not.
They were not. The subject was raised again at
a meeting of the Board in June 2024; is that correct?
Yes.
Please can the minutes of the Board meeting on 4 June be
shown on the screen. Those are POL00448648, please.
Thank you. So these are minutes of 4 June. If we could
please turn to the middle of the second page, we can see
item 2 on the agenda, which bears the heading "Minutes
and Matters Arising". Under "Matters Arising”, it
states that:
"The Board NOTED the action log and status of the
actions shown."
There, at the second bullet point, in respect of
items which had been proposed for closure, it states
that "Key discussion points were as follows", so the
second bullet point, please:
"[Mr Ismail] questioned whether item 3 ought to be
disclosed. [Mr Jacobs] shared his view that if the
Company was proposing to provide evidence to support
police investigations, then this should come to the
Board first."
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brought before the Board, so the first one which we've
spoken about, just briefly, being proposed changes -- or
not proposed changes but to understand the attitude of
the Board in relation to potential changes to the
policy, specifically which would alter the way in
which -- and the decision making for providing evidence
to the police. And then the second aspect of the matter
was seeking approval from the Board in order to be able
to share evidence with the police. So that would be,
you know, operating in line with the current, you know,
policy and the approval required in order to pass
evidence to the police.
Can you assist, as best you recollect, as to what the
nature of the proposed change was at this stage in
October 20237
Yes. So the proposal was that the decision making in
relation to the passing of evidence to the police would
no longer sit with the Board, as was currently set out
in the policy, and that the decision making for that,
I understand, would sit with the Director for the
Central Investigations Unit.
You've indicated that what occurred at this meeting was
a sounding out of the Board as to their views on that
proposed change; is that correct?
That's right, yes.
50
Just pausing there, who had proposed the closure of
this item?
So I think it would have been the director of what is
now called A&C, so Assurance & Complex Investigations,
which was previously known as the CIU.
What were the reasons, do you know, for proposing that
this matter be closed at this stage?
I think it was proposed to be closed on the basis of the
expectation that would be brought to the next periodic
scheduled Board meeting, which was in the diary for the
8 July.
What did you understand the nature of Mr Ismail's
concerns to be about the proposal to close down this
agenda item?
Well, that it was proposed to be closed but the original
action item that had arisen in the Board meeting from
the 23 October '23, as far as the Board knew, that
original action had not been attended to. So, you know,
why was it proposed, then, to close it?
Forgive me, what specifically was the action which had
been raised at the end of the last Board meeting in
relation to this agenda item?
So the Board had asked, in relation to the policy, that
there would be some simulation testing, I suppose, for
a lack of a more appropriate group of words, where
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postmasters would be taken through the policy and the
proposed changes and to have those changes, you know,
bounced off postmasters to see their -- you know, their
response, and that there would be, you know, sort of
basic testing, testing for tonality, before the policy
came back to the Board.
So the Board had requested that a consultation exercise
be undertaken, in effect, with postmasters on the
proposed changes; is that ~
Yes, I think so. They wanted postmaster input on -- you
know, on the policy and, you know, collaboration on --
with postmasters on the policy.
That action, to your knowledge, hadn't been undertaken;
is that right?
That's right, that's to my knowledge, yes.
The proposal was to close down that particular action
without further input and oversight from the Board; is
that right?
Well, to close the action on the basis that the matter
was due to come to the next periodic board meeting.
So the intention being that the Executive Team would
report again to the Board on that particular action but
at the next meeting in July?
That's right, yes.
Do you know whether the consultation which the Board
53
Board meeting; is that right?
Yes, that's right.
Was the matter, in fact, remitted to the Board the
following month?
No, it was not.
Can we please look at a paper which was prepared for
consideration by the Strategic Executive Group at its
meeting in late June 2024. It is POL00448345. Did this
report come to you in your capacity as Company
Secretary, ahead of the meeting of the Strategic
Executive Group in late June?
Itmay have. It may have.
Do you recall reading the report at or around the time
it was produced?
Not at the time it was produced, no.
When did you first read it?
When it was disclosed to me in the last few days.
So we can see the title of the report is "Passing of
material to law enforcement". The report is intended
for a meeting date of 26 June 2024 and the author of the
report, John Bartlett, Director of Assurance & Complex
Investigations, under the sponsorship of Sarah Gray the
Interim Group General Counsel.
I should say at the outset, I recognise you don't
have operational responsible for these matters; my
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asked to be undertaken, was that ever carried out?
Not to my knowledge.
So we can see Mr Ismail questioning whether the item
‘ought to be closed, his views are shared by Mr Jacobs,
in that he says that, if the company are proposing to
provide evidence to support police investigations, that
should come to the Board first. That's the views they
are expressing.
The new Interim Chair, it says:
".. noted that if there appeared to be criminal
activity this generally needed to be reported through to
the police and there were issues in some instances of
requiring pre-reporting to the Board, for example in
relation to suspicions of money laundering. In
addition, the Chair noted that the proposed process
would allow investigations to be conducted by the police
rather than the Company."
Then a further action is raised: the Chair requested
that you -- is that correct, "RS"?
Yes.
"... circulate the paper that was provided to the Board
and the minute extract from the meeting of 31 October,
and that [Mr Bartlett] attend the July Board meeting to
clarify the proposed position ..."
So that's where matters stood at the end of the June
54
questions are directed at the oversight of this issue,
just to be clear.
So under the heading "Input Sought”, it states,
“Discussion and Approval for Board Consideration":
"[The approval of the Strategic Executive Group] is
sought regarding the proposed change in process in
governing the passing of information to law enforcement
to assist them in criminal investigations and any
subsequent prosecutions prior to this matter being
discussed at Board in July 2024."
If we scroll down, please, to the Executive Summary.
It states:
"The current Group Investigations Policy,
Cooperation with Law Enforcement Policy [known as 'the
CLEP], and Legal Play Book (collectively ‘the old
Policies’) are considered too unwieldy and unnecessarily
complex as well as being drafted before the existence of
the Assurance & Complex Investigations. The CLEP has
result in slower than needed provision of information to
law enforcement and the unnecessary involvement of the
Board in the authorisation process."
Just pausing there, what was your view at the time
as to the appropriateness of the Board's involvement, to
date, in the approval of provision of information to the
police?
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I think the view of the Board at the -- probably the
point in time, the October 2023 meeting, was that they
still wished to see all cases where the provision of
evidence to the police were proposed before that
evidence was passed on.
You've answered with reference to the view of the Board.
What I'd like to know is, in your capacity as Company
Secretary and from a governance perspective, what is
your view, as to the necessity or otherwise, of the
Board to be giving its express approval to the provision
of information to the police by an executive arm of Post
Office?
I think it's something that, given our history and where
we've been, that it is that significant that, for the
time being, it would seem appropriate to still, in
I think the majority of cases, still come to the Board.
Forgive me, sorry. You consider that it was appropriate
for the matter still to come to the Board; is that
correct?
Yes.
So what the "Executive Summary" says is this:
"The old Policies have been consolidated into
a draft single Investigation and Cooperation with law
Enforcement Policy ... The draft new Policy, amongst
other investigative operational policy changes, proposes
57
established at or around the time of your appointment as
Company Secretary.
At paragraph 2, it says this:
"... the Investigations Policy was implemented in
respect of possible criminal matters relied upon its
interaction with the CLEP and Legal [policy] Book.
These were focused on limiting in a high risk perception
environment how [Post Office] reported matters to, and
shared data with, law enforcement."
Now, that reference to high-risk perception
environment, you've said elsewhere in your statement
that you consider that there is an issue within the Post
Office in relation to there being a fear of decision
making, a fear of being held accountable for decision
making, and that that is contributing to some of the
governance issues in relation to what the Board is
required to deal with; is that right?
Yes.
This appears to reflect a perception that that needs to
change -- is that fair --
Yes.
-- and that the previous policy was reflective of
perhaps an excessive concern about the governance of
this issue; is that --
Yes.
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a streamlining of the governance of providing law
enforcement with information: the Director of A&CI and
the inhouse criminal counsel would have to agree to
providing the information and, depending on the age of
the information, a caveat would also be provided."
So what's being proposed, in essence, is
a relaxation of that previous criteria, which required
board approval, and a delegation of that decision to
both the Director of Assurance & Complex Investigations,
and inhouse criminal counsel; is that right?
Yes.
The report goes on to provide some context to this
request. At paragraph 1, it refers to the current
policy and states this:
"This policy was drafted at a time when [Post
Office] did not have an experienced investigative
function and had not carried out complex investigations
for several years. In February 2022, the Central
Investigations Unit, now [Assurance & Complex
Investigations], started to be formed. Experienced,
professional investigators were recruited, and
operational practices began to go through
a test-and-learn process."
Consistent with your evidence, in effect, that CIU
had been established or was in the process of being
58
-- your reading of --
(The witness nodded)
So it goes on to say at paragraph 3:
"[Assurance & Complex Investigations has taken over]
responsibility for being the only conduit for witness
statements to be provided to police, including relieving
the Security team of this activity.”
It then states:
"This has given [the unit] the first pan-POL picture
of the scale of these requests and what is required to
service them objectively and in an evidence-based way.
There are currently 22 police forces requesting or
awaiting Horizon-based evidence across 33 police
investigations. To provide this information, [Assurance
& Complex Investigations] will need to draw on Horizon
data and often provide transaction analysis. The
current approach is that the Board will need to be
approached in the majority of these matters as and when
the data is able to be shared.”
So the concern here appears to be that the policy,
which requires prior approval of the Board, has created
something of a bottleneck in the process of providing
information to the police; is that consistent with your
understanding?
I mean the Board meets periodically, and the Board can
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also take decisions by way of written resolution or can
call an ad hoc Board meeting if required. So I don't
think that I agree with a potential bottleneck issue,
you know. If the Board needs to take a decision quickly
and be nimble, they can do it.
But this is seeking a more streamlined process that
would avoid that oversight and scrutiny by the Board?
Yes.
At paragraph 4 it refers to:
"A draft policy is attached for the proposed
replacement for the old Policies [which it said would]
reflect the enhanced capabilities of the [Assurance &
Complex Investigations] and the improved governance
approach to investigations generally."
What do you understand to be the basis of the
insertion that there's an improved governance approach
to investigations?
Well, perhaps it is the point around speed of decision
making, you know, but, as I've just said, I think -- you
know, when the Board needs to be nimble, they can be.
This appears to be a reference to the governance of the
investigations themselves. Is that internal governance,
do you think, or Board oversight that's being referenced
here? I'm conscious that you're not the author of the
report, so if you don't know then you can simply say so?
61
in 2021 of a new collaborative approach to the
resolution of Horizon issues.
Now, two of those matters pre-date your appointment
as Company Secretary but I'd like to ask you about the
third one, and that relates to this more collaborative
approach to investigating shortfalls. Why do you think
it is that the adoption of that more collaborative
approach is then seen to justify a change in the
oversight arrangements for the provision of evidence to
the police?
I'm not sure.
Do you think that that's right: that that new approach
being taken to resolving Horizon issues with postmasters
in this context justified a relaxation of the Board's
oversight?
No, I don't think so. I think the Board were very
clear, in October 2023, as to their expectations in
respect of the policy.
So going on, then, please to what the new policy would
provide, that is to say what proposal was, it states at
paragraph 2:
"Itis the policy that:
"Any information originating from Horizon after
1 January 2022 may be passed as either intelligence or
evidence to [law enforcement authorities or agents] only
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I'm not sure, to be honest.
Itthen contains an extract from the new proposed
policy, and that's in relation to section 9 entitled
"Categories of data, material and evidence". It states
this:
"Proactively and reactively supplied information
will have differing profiles due to historic technology
issues. The version of Horizon that was considered at
fault in the Horizon IT scandal was replaced in October
2019. In 2020, known errors and bugs identified in the
Horizon Issues judgment formed part of a review by KPMG
of the system and found to not be prevalent in the
system. From 2021, a new and collaborative approach was
taken to resolving reported Horizon issues in a dispute
resolution process. Due to the effect of these
developments, the following approach to data sharing
with [law enforcement agencies] is ..."
Then it sets out the policy. Before we go there,
that first paragraph identifies three factors which is
said to justify the proposed change in approach to
oversight of this issue: the first being the adoption of
anew Horizon in 2019, which we know is HNG-A; the
second a review by KPMG, which reportedly concluded that
known bugs and errors were not prevalent in the current
version of the system; and, thirdly, the establishment
62
after the [Director of Assurance & Complex
Investigations] (or their nominated deputy) and inhouse
criminal lawyer both give approval."
So that's consistent with what we're saying about
the delegation of authority to those two individuals.
It states:
"A record of both [their] rationale and decision
must be recorded on the relevant case file.
“Where information is requested by [law enforcement
authorities] that is Horizon data originating from
pre-1 January 2022, the same process must be followed.
In addition, the wording included in the relevant
section of the Investigator's Manual covering the
passing of information ... must be included in any
witness statement for evidence or in an accompanying
email or letter ... requesting the information in
a non-evidential format."
So the policy envisaged drawing a line as at January
2022 and, in effect, treating evidence that post-dates
January 2022 essentially as being capable of being
relied upon without caveat, and data pre-dating January
2022 as not qualifying in that sense; is that your
reading of this proposal?
Yes.
Do you know why it is that that date was chosen as the
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point at which it could be said confidently that Horizon
data could be relied upon in support of police
investigations?
No, I don't.
If we could go on, please; if we could scroll down,
please, to page 3. So it says this:
"There are significant differences between the
environment that existed at the time the old Policies
were formed and the current and future environment. The
current approach to dispute resolution and the
underlying technology could be seen as supporting a more
BAU ..."
Is that "business as usual"?
Yes.
".. approach to passing information to law enforcement.
However, the most significant difference between 2019
when the old Policies were first drafted and now is that
[Assurance & Complex Investigations] exists and brings
significant criminal investigation experience to bear,
but more importantly, also considerably more objective
rigour to assessing evidence. Project Panther within
[Assurance & Complex Investigations] is solely focused
on testing the reliability of data that [Post Office]
investigators and law enforcement will rely upon."
Then at paragraph 8:
65
to you on the outcome of that meeting?
Um, I don't recall specifically. We probably would have
had a general discussion.
Were you aware that the Group had declined to approve
the submission of the paper to the Board?
I think I was aware of it on the basis that I had this
as a matter on the draft agenda for the July Board
meeting and it came off, so -- off that draft agenda, so
I think that I deduced that the matter hadn't cleared
the Executive.
Were you aware that the reason why Executive had refused
to approve the paper was that it believed further
assurance was required in relation to Horizon data?
No, I don't think I knew the reasoning.
Has this matter come back to the Board since June 2024,
to your knowledge?
Not to my knowledge, no.
Does it remain the case that Board approval is required
before any witness evidence about Horizon data is
supplied to the police?
Well, yes, in line with the current policy.
I think you said that you consider that that is
an appropriate safeguard, owing to the history of
Horizon prosecutions and the ongoing questions, I
suppose, about Horizon's integrity; is that fair?
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"A further check and balance to the material
provided to law enforcement which enables a more
proportionate governance of this is that law enforcement
agencies do not just take [Post Office's] word that
evidence is reliable. [Post Office] can only provide
the information to law enforcement; it is for them to
decide its admissibility and weight. Given this
reality, it is our view that a more agile and devolved
(albeit to senior staff with significant relevant
experience outside of POL) approach may be taken to
better serve law enforcement, postmasters and [Post
Office]."
That explains then both the context and
justification put forward to the Strategic Executive
Group for this proposed change in policy; is that fair?
A. Yes.
Q. That Group was asked to discuss the approach in advance
of the proposal to admit the matter to the Board in
July; is that right?
A. That's right yes.
Q. I don't think you were in attendance at the meeting of
the Strategic Executive Group in late June; is that
right?
A. That's right.
Q. That was attended by your deputy. Did she report back
66
A. Yes.
Q. Thank you. I have one final topic I'd like to discuss
with you --
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Before that, Ms Hodge, this may be me
being unduly legalistic, all right, but I would just
like to get a point clear in my head.
Before the police become involved in any suspected
crime, of the type we are now talking about --
a financial crime related to an organisation -- there
has, in effect, to be a report of an alleged crime to
the police, yes?
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So to use, just by way of an example, the
suspicion that a postmaster has stolen Post Office
money, before that gets to the police, someone must have
formed the suspicion that the postmaster has done that,
yes?
A. Yes, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Right. Am I right in thinking that,
before a report to the police is made about that
notional postmaster, the Board has to approve it?
A. Yes, that's right.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: That's under the existing policy?
A. Under the existing policy, yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So, essentially, what that means, as
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I would think, as both a citizen and a lawyer, is that
the Board has satisfied itself that there is sufficient
evidential basis to justify a report to the police, yes?
A. Yes, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right. That I follow entirely.
What I am struggling more with is the next step: the
police now begin to investigate, yes?
A. Yes.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: _ In their investigation, they ask for
various witness statements or information or
intelligence, whatever you want to call it, in order to
further their investigation so that they can decide
whether or not a charge is justified, yes?
A. Yes, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: What's the need for the Board to
authorise that because the request for this information
is coming from the police; what's wrong with just
complying with their request, so far as you know? I'm
not asking you to be the arbiter of all this: I just
want to understand what's behind all these various
procedures, if you see what I mean.
A. I think it's just, given sort of historical
sensitivities, that the Board has wished to stay very
close to these matters.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: But, in the real world, are you saying
69
A. That's right yes.
Q. That was one year after he'd taken up the role, or
approximately one year after he'd taken up the role of
Chair of the Post Office Board?
A. Yes, that's right.
Q. You say in your statement that you had prepared the
necessary documents to support that process -- is that
right --
A. That's right.
Q. and you'd been liaising with the Senior Independent
Director, Mr Tidswell, and the team at UKGI, including
the Shareholder Non-Executive Director?
A. That's right, yes.
Q. You explained that UKGI had requested that the appraisal
proceed?
A. Yes.
Q. Why was it that their view as to whether it ought to
proceed was canvassed at that stage?
A. Sol had been working with the UKGI Shareholder Team on
the materials for Henry's appraisal, you know, probably
for a good few weeks ahead of, actually, the, you know,
proposed appraisal to take place. I think, as
shareholder -- obviously Henry was accountable
ultimately to the shareholder, so it was very important
to -- you know, to be sure that they were happy with the
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that there could be instances where a police force would
say, "Right, we'd now like you to provide X, Y and Z to
further our investigations” but the Post Office would
then say "No"?
A. I mean, I can't envisage that happening, sir. Yeah.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, so that's why I am asking why there
is the need for, as I might see it, let's say,
an excessive degree of caution over this, once the
police -- and I stress that -- once the police are the
persons asking for the information?
A. Yeah, I mean, I don't think I can say much further as --
you know, just that the Board have --
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Because of the past and people are being
very cautious; that's what it boils down to, is it?
A. Yes, in my view, yes, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Sorry, Ms Hodge.
MS HODGE: No. Thank you, sir.
Ms Scarrabelotti, my final topic concerns your
involvement in the events which culminated in the
removal of Mr Staunton as Chair of Post Office earlier
this year. The first issue concerns Mr Staunton's
annual performance appraisal.
A. Yes.
Q. That was due to take place in January 2024; is that
right?
70
materials and also to the timing and just -- well, yeah,
were happy for the process to be initiated.
So more procedural than a substantive matter -- is that
fair --
I think so.
-- in terms of seeking their --
Yes, certainly, just an informal, courteous, yes.
You say you were preparing to issue the relevant
documents to the Directors of the Post Office Board,
when Mr Staunton instructed you to stop the appraisal
process; is that right?
A. That's right, yes.
Q. What was the reason which he gave you for that
instruction?
‘A. Just, given the other pressures that the business was
going through at that particular time, so I was asked to
pause, yeah, for the present.
Q. Did you consider that there was any merit in that
suggestion that the pressures the business was facing
warranted pausing the appraisal process?
A. I mean, January 2024 was a very turbulent time for the
business but we're all subject to periodic performance
reviews and, even though the business was in a difficult
state and a difficult time, January 2024, I don't think
that there was any -- you know, I don't think that that
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would be alleviated, you know, by waiting a few months.
Does it follow that you didn't think that that was
an appropriate instruction for him to give you?
No, I didn't and, like I say, everyone has to go through
a performance appraisal and I can't defer mine, no one
can defer theirs. So yeah, I didn't think it was
appropriate.
What did you do on receiving that instruction?
I went to the Senior Independent Director and shared my
concern.
The second issue I'd like to explore with you concerns
the decision to appoint Mr Tidswell's replacement as
Senior Independent Director. You explain in your
statement that the appointment of the Senior Independent
Director is a matter for the Board under the 2018 UK
Corporate Governance Code?
Yes, that's right.
You explain that the matter arose first in August 2013
when Mr Tidswell announced his intention to step down at
the end of his current term?
Yes, so 2023.
Forgive me, 2023. Sorry.
Yes.
I said 2018 (sic) again, did I?
Yes.
73
Board?
To get the Directors’ views on whether or not the
incoming SID should be drawn from the existing Board
membership, so it would be an internal appointment, or
whether that appointment should be made externally and,
if the appointment was made externally, what would the
key skills and attributes and the technical expertise
for that external recruit?
Now, you say that the shareholder had expressed a strong
view or a strong preference for both an external
appointment and a candidate who had Whitehall
experience; is that right?
That's right, yes.
You also explained that, of those whose views that were
canvassed, there was a division as to whether the
appointment ought to be internal or external; is that
right?
That's right, yes.
And that Mr Staunton determined, in view of that
division, to give preference to the shareholder's view
and to seek the appointment of an external candidate: is
that right?
That's right.
I think you say that you sent an email on 25 October to
advise the other Board members of that decision?
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2023, I apologise.
As a result of Mr Tidswell giving that indication to
the Chair, he requested that the subject matter of his
replacement be placed on the agendas of the Nominations
Committee and the POL Board in September of that year;
is that right?
That's right, yes.
You say that, following those meetings of both the
Nominations Committee and the POL Board, that meetings
were arranged in October with each of the Post Office
Directors, which were attended both by you and by
Mr Staunton; is that right?
So it wasn't all of the Post Office Directors.
Forgive me, the Board Directors?
Yes, but not all of the Post Office Board Directors;
meetings were not held with all of those. So,
obviously, Al Cameron was out of the business unwell,
and then Ben Tidswell, there wasn't a consultation
meeting held with him either.
Because he was leaving --
Because he was leaving.
-- and it was his replacement?
Yes.
Can you please explain, what was the purpose of those
individual meetings with the other Directors of the
74
That's right, yes.
Now, that resulted in the matter going to the
Nominations Committee in November; is that right?
That's right, yes.
They gave their approval to the initiation of
a recruitment process; is that correct?
That's right, yes. Well, it's a -- they approved
a recommendation being made to the shareholder for the
recruitment process.
For the recruitment to commence?
Yes.
Now, on 17 January this year, you've explained in your
statement that the Chair, Mr Staunton, emailed certain
of the Post Office Board members to advise that there
had been a change of sentiment amongst the Board about
the decision to make an external appointment; is that
correct?
Yes.
Do you know from where Mr Staunton had obtained that
impression?
I mean, I don't really know. So I guess sort of as
I mentioned before, January, you know, this year was
a tough month for the company. A lot was going on. So
yeah, I imagine that yeah, the directors may have fed
back to Mr Staunton that, you know, to appoint
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internally for the SID was preferable, as opposed to
recruiting externally, given, you know, the
circumstances of the time.
You note in your statement that the Shareholder
Non-Executive Director wasn't copied in to the email
sent by Mr Staunton on 17 January, notifying the other
board members of this proposed change in approach. Do
you know why it is that that was the case?
Potentially because the Shareholder Non-Executive
Director had a different view as to the approach.
Did you read this as an attempt by Mr Staunton to
sideline the Shareholder Non-Executive Director?
Well, I think that's what it was, yes.
On 18 January, so the following day, you say that the
Chair asked you to review your notes of the individual
meetings which you had attended between the Chair and
those directors whose views were canvassed about the
question of an appointment, so that was back in October
of the previous year --
Yes.
-- is that right?
He asked to you to advise as to what their
preferences had been as to who on the Board should take
up the role of the Senior Independent Director in the
event of an internal appointment; is that right?
7
members, and then a formal vote on the matter in order
to change the previous decision that had been taken.
So was the nature of your concern that the matter hadn't
been properly canvassed at board level, rather than, for
example, being remitted to the Nominations Committee?
No, my concern wasn't that the matter hadn't been sort
of -- that there hadn't been adequate consultation. My
concern was that there hadn't been -- that the decision
hadn't taken place in the appropriate forum at Board.
So it was a decision for Board, the employment of the
Senior Independent Director. All directors need to be
given an opportunity to participate in that vote and,
from what I understood, not all directors were given
that opportunity.
In particular, the Shareholder Non-Executive Director?
The Shareholder Non-Executive Director, also
I understand Amanda Burton was not consulted, neither
was Ben Tidswell, and we've said that, yeah, Al Cameron
was on sick leave at the time. So quite a few members
of the Board not given the opportunity to vote on this
matter.
You say that -- so you had two concerns, essentially.
One relate to the following of due process --
Yes.
-- in reaching that decision, and the other concern you
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That's right, yes.
You duly sent your record of that meeting, or a summary
of the views that were canvassed at that meeting to the
Chair; is that correct?
That's right, yes.
Mr Staunton then, on 20 January, so two days later,
emailed the Board to notify the members that an internal
appointment had been made; is that right?
That's right, yes.
You say that he then went on to instruct you to halt the
recruitment process for an external candidate --
Yes.
-- and that you felt unable to follow that instruction,
you say, because the requisite governance procedures had
not been followed, and the approach was not in line with
the existing mandate from the shareholder; is that
right?
That's right.
When it came to Mr Staunton's attention that there had
been a change of sentiment amongst the members of the
Board, what processes do you think he should have
followed to ensure that that matter was dealt with
appropriately?
Well, I think that we would have needed to have a formal
board meeting to take all the views of all the Board
78
identify in your statement was that the decision wasn't
consistent with the existing mandate from the
shareholder?
That's right.
Does this episode reflect, do you think, a tension in
the governance of the Post Office between the matters
which are properly reserved to the Board and the
involvement of the shareholder and the influence of the
shareholder in those decisions?
I don't think so. I mean, the shareholder was very
clear in providing their view, however, I think if the
board had taken an alternative view to originally
appoint an internal candidate, I think that would have
stood.
MS HODGE: Thank you. I've no further questions. If you
remain there, there may be some questions from the
recognised legal representatives of some of the Core
Participants.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
Questioned by MR JACOBS
MR JACOBS: Good afternoon. I appear for a large number of
Core Participants, subpostmasters, former subpostmasters
and assistants so represented by Howe+Co.
Ms Scarrabelotti, I have a few questions to ask you,
firstly about what you say in your statement about
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culture. At 11.45 this morning Ms Hodge said you'd made
reference in your statement to an issue within Post
Office of decision making, of a fear of decision making,
of being held accountable; do you recall that?
Yes.
Could we very quickly go to where you deal with that in
your statement. It's WITN11120600, paragraph 33(g),
page 19 of 85.
While we're waiting for that to come up, you're
giving your reflections here as to the adequacy and
effectiveness of the Post Office's corporate governance
arrangement; that's right, isn't it?
Yes.
Do we see that? Yes, it's on the screen now. At (g):
"As [highlighted] elsewhere in my statement, current
POL employees are acutely aware of failings of the past.
This appears to have resulted in an apparent reluctance
to take decisions for fear of getting it wrong and
therefore being liable to future criticism."
Is that right?
Yes.
You go on to says:
"This reluctance in turn results in decisions either
stagnating or being pushed to more senior
decision-making forums. Ultimately, more POL Board time
81
crystallise, that there's more agonising over
recommendations, perhaps in other businesses that I've
worked on -- that I've worked at, and that, overall,
that leads to slower decision making.
I've been asked to ask if you can move a little bit
closer to your microphone.
Sorry. Pardon me.
What do you think can be done to free up this paralysis,
this fear of making decisions in reasonable time?
I think it's empowering people and I think it's looking
at decision making from Board level down. So the Board
currently has delegated authority to the Executive for
£5 million but looking at whether or not that delegation
needs to be increased. Also, ultimately looking at the
Board and their relationship with the shareholder, and
whether or not certain decisions that go to the
shareholder can perhaps come back to the Board. And
I think making those sorts of changes could increase,
from the top down, confidence in decision making.
Do you think having more subpostmaster representation on
the Board, something that you say would be a good thing,
would assist in enabling more speedy and effective
decision making?
Potentially on the Board but I think it could be more
effective at -- in other layers. So perhaps looking at
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is taken up with matters of less strategic importance,
and there is diminished accountability on the part of
less senior forums and individuals."
Now, I have some questions to ask you about that.
Firstly, what decisions are being stagnated as a result
of this fear of accountability or paralysis affecting
the Board?
A. I mean, it could be -- it was sort of any decision
across the business, to be honest. Yeah. I don't think
I can give you a particular category or business unit.
Q. When you say that decisions of greater strategic
importance are being pushed to more senior decision
making forums, what are those forums and what are the
decisions of greater strategic importance?
A. Solsay "matters of less strategic importance
witness statement, sorry.
Q. Okay. Our clients are concerned about the delays in the
provision of redress to subpostmasters. Have these
delays been affected by the paralysis in decision making
in the Post Office as a result of the scandal?
my
A. Potentially, yes.
Can you elaborate on that at all?
A. I think that there's sort of just general nervousness
around decision making. So, you know, that it would
take a long time, perhaps, for a proposal to
82
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the executive structure, where we have the Postmaster
Experience Director sit as part of the wider leadership
team thinking do we need, you know, more people with
that title or similar titles at the leadership level, at
the Executive level?
Q. Do you think the Government should play a more direct
role in order to resolve this fear of decision making?
A. Well, potentially, to have a look at our articles and
the contractual arrangements between the shareholder and
the company, and looking at opportunities to empower the
company to take more decisions, yes.
Q. How would that work; how would the shareholder be
brought in to assist with decision making?
A. Well, the shareholder would actually be removed from
certain decision making and allow the company enhanced
decision making in some respects.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, as I understand you, you're saying,
in effect, that the Government is too involved in some
decision making and that should be handed over to the
POL Board?
A. Yes, sir. That's right.
MR JACOBS: So that leads me on to my next question: is this
fear a fear of the Department of Business, that it's the
Government, the shareholder, that would criticise the
decisions, or is it more public opinion?
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I think more public opinion and just fear of getting it
wrong, given the catastrophes of the past.
You've said in your statement that having at least one
Board member who's legally qualified is vitally
important?
In my view, yes.
You say that Ms Burton has legal experience and that has
been helpful in challenging what the Executive are
telling the Board. Do you think, if the Board had its
own counsel or equivalent standing lawyer, that would
cut through nervousness about what the Board is being
told by the Executive?
So, obviously, we have a General Counsel who is not
a member of the Executive but is a standing attendee and
invitee to Executive meetings. Inhouse counsel carries
the same independence obligations as you would expect.
The interim General Counsel, too, is attending Board
meetings to provide independent advice. So I think
that's sort of an enhancement, yeah, for the Board.
So your evidence is that having Board members who are
also legally qualified is what you think there should be
more of?
No, I don't think necessarily more of but I think having
‘one of is very valuable.
You go on to say that having a board member with IT
85
Executive who have held those meetings with
subpostmasters?
They've been spoken about, absolutely, at times when
I have sat with the Board and when I have sat in the
Executive forum as well.
We understand that on 23 June 2023 Nick Read had
a meeting with 100 senior officials and leaders in the
Post Office to discuss the meetings that he'd held with
subpostmasters and he said that this was part of his
determination to change culture within the Post Office.
Did you attend that meeting or any such meetings to
discuss the experiences from these meetings?
I mean, I don't --
-- with subpostmasters?
I don't recall if I attended that meeting. It's
probably highly likely that I did.
Can you confirm whether what's happened in those
meetings, the information that's been provided by
subpostmasters to members of the Executive, how that has
been used to feed into the Post Office culture?
(Unclear) the executives who participate in those
meetings are very, very deeply moved, and find that
those meetings very, very challenging, very difficult,
very confronting, but I think they come back into the
business with, you know, a real sense to enact change.
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technology experience is imperative?
A. Well, absolutely, because we're embarking on a major
technology transformation.
Q. Are there directors with that experience on the Board
yet?
A. Not currently, no.
Q. What steps are there proposed?
A. So we're currently recruiting for an independent
Non-Executive Director with a skillset in technology and
cyber.
Q. I want to ask you finally about the meetings with
subpostmasters that you've referred to at
paragraph 45(a) of your statement -- no need to put it
up -- but you say that you're aware of the meetings that
have taken place between subpostmasters and directors.
A. Sorry, let me just go to it.
Q. 45(a) of the statement.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I It's page 31.
MR JACOBS: Thank you, sir.
"In order to demonstrate a desire for cultural
change ...”
So these are meetings between postmasters and members of
the Executive, as opposed to Board Directors.
Right. Are you aware of those meetings; have you
discussed those meetings with the members of the
86
On Wednesday Mr Brocklesby gave evidence and he has.
attended some of these meetings with subpostmasters, and
we know he is leaving Post Office and we know that the
current Chief Executive is leaving Post Office as well.
What steps are being taken to ensure that corporate
memory is maintained, despite the high turnover of
Executives and Board members in recent years?
Well, Mr Read is staying for a number of months yet, so
there will be, I imagine, a handover period. At Board
level, it has been difficult, obviously, to retain
corporate memory with the number of step downs that
we've had in the last few years, but we do try as much
as we can to have handover periods, to have handover
notes, to have full induction, you know, packs and
meetings.
Well, are the lessons from the meetings with
subpostmasters being recorded, are they being
transmitted throughout the business or are they just
experiences that executives have for their own knowledge
and their own purposes?
I do think that they are transmitted through the
business and they are --
How are they transmitted?
Well, they're spoken about, as I say, at Board meetings,
at Executive meetings. I think Mr Read, in different
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updates -- CEO updates to the Board, has reflected on
this experiences of those meetings. I think at
different meetings of the Senior Leadership Team, as it
was previously called, those meetings had been touched
‘on, and the nature of those meetings, the tone of those
meetings. So, absolutely, I think, yeah, I think those
meetings are brought back into the business.
Q. Are you aware of any wider restorative justice
initiatives that have been proposed, such as, for
example, ongoing psychiatric and counselling support for
subpostmasters and their families, ways of helping the
children whose education was disrupted by the scandal,
educational bursaries, initiatives to restore
reputations of subpostmasters in their local communities
and areas; has that been discussed at Board level?
A. I'm pretty sure at Board level, yes, so enhanced
restorative justice measures being discussed along with
looking at, yeah, you know, the funding for that.
Q. Is that something that Post Office is actively
considering?
A. I'm not sure, to be honest.
MR JACOBS: I 'll just see if I have any more questions.
I don't have any more questions for you. I'm
grateful. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
89
Questioned by MS MILLAR
MS MILLAR: Thank you. Can you please confirm your full
name?
A. Veronica Jane Branton.
Q. Ms Branton, can you just sit forward a little bit, just
so the microphone picks up your voice?
A. Sorry.
Q. Thank you. You should have a witness statement in front
of you and that's dated 4 September 2024; is that
correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Before we begin, I understand there are a couple of
amendments you'd like to make to that statement.
A. Yes, please.
Q. So if we just go to page 22 first of all, and
paragraph 69, I think the amendment should be:
"Once appointed, new NEDs received induction
materials, access to [and then the amendment is]
a number of past Board and committee materials.”
Is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Then page 25 at paragraph 78, the last sentence you want
to add "for recommendation to the Board"; is that
correct?
A. That's correct.
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MS HODGE: Sir, I think that concludes the questions from
the representatives of Core Participants.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, thank you very much,
Ms Scarrabelotti, for making a total of five detailed
witness statements. I think we can say that the
corrective statement wouldn't have taken you all that
long but the others must have taken a great deal of
time. So thank you very much for that and thank you
very much for coming to give oral evidence before me
this morning.
THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Where do we go now, Ms Hodge? Do we take
an early lunch or do we start the next witness?
MS HODGE: Sir, my proposal would be that we resume at 1.45
after an early lunch.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, fine.
MS HODGE: Thank you.
(12.32 pm)
(The Short Adjournment)
(1.45 pm)
MS MILLAR: Good afternoon, sir, can you see and hear us?
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, yes, thank you.
MS MILLAR: This afternoon we're going to hear from
Ms Branton.
VERONICA JANE BRANTON (affirmed)
90
Q. Thank you. Having made those amendments, can I ask you
to turn to the last final substantive page of your
witness statement which is page 71?
A. Yes, thank you.
Q. Can you confirm that is your signature?
A. Itis, thank you.
Q. Can you confirm that statement is true to the best of
your knowledge and belief?
A. Itis.
Q. Thank you. For the record, that statement is
WITN11420100.
Ms Branton, is there anything you'd like to say
before you start your evidence?
A. Yes, please. I would just like to say how sorry I am
that the actions and inactions of Post Office and others
has caused so much suffering to so many subpostmasters
‘over such a long period of time and that not all of
those individuals have received compensation yet.
Q. Thank you. Can I ask you to keep your voice up a little
bit, you're very softly spoken.
A. Sorry.
Q. Thank you very much. By anyway of introduction, you
were employed by the Post Office from February 2018 to
March 2022; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
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You were Head of the Secretariat between 21 February
2018 and 31 May 2019?
That's correct.
You became interim Company Secretary on the 1 June 2019
and then Company Secretary on 26 July 2019?
That's correct.
You remained in that role until about March 2022?
That's correct.
In relation to your professional qualifications, you
have to an MSc in corporate governance and
a practitioners certificate in data protection?
That's right.
You've been an associate of the Chartered Governance
Institute since December 2006?
Yes.
Prior to being employed by the Post Office, you held
various administrative and governance roles and that
included, as a board secretary and corporation
secretary; is that correct?
That's correct.
After leaving Post Office in March 2022, you became
Corporation Secretary at Ofcom, where you're still
employed; is that right?
That's right.
Thank you, So when you were appointed Head of
93
How did your role change when you became Company
Secretary?
I think the role changed principally because I had much
more direct contact with the Board members and with the
Chair. So previously a lot had been done through Jane
MacLeod, whereas when I moved into the role I was having
more conversations directly with Board members.
Thank you. When you became Company Secretary, did you
manage a team, a Secretariat team?
\ did.
How many people were in that team?
It ranged over time, so we had some staff shortages at
periods, so at one point there just two of us and at
full strength there were five of us.
At what period were there only two of you?
Quite soon after I started at Post Office. So there
were a couple of people who left very soon after I'd
started and there was already a vacancy, so we had just
two of us for a few months.
Thank you. So turning, then, to the training you
received when you joined the Post Office, is it right
that you didn't receive any specific briefings or
induction on the issues being addressed by this Inquiry
when you joined the Post Office?
Not that I can recollect.
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Secretariat in February 2018, your line manager was the
General Counsel and Company Secretary then, Jane
MacLeod?
That's right.
At that point, the role of Company Secretary and General
Counsel were held by the same person?
That's right.
Is it right, then, when Ms MacLeod left the Post Office
in May 2019, the roles were merged and you took on the
company -- sorry, the roles were separated --
(The witness nodded)
-- and you took on the Company Secretary role?
That's right, yes.
What is your understanding of the reason why the roles
were separated at that point?
I think, to some extent, expediency because there was
an immediate gap and I think, at that stage, Al Cameron
had become the Interim Chief Executive and he wanted to
make sure there were individuals in those roles quite
quickly and the Board was of the same view.
In Ms MacLeod's witness statement, she explains that, in
your previous role as Head of Secretariat, you fulfilled
the day-to-day responsibilities of the Company
Secretary; is that a fair description?
That's a fair description.
94
Did that include issues with the Horizon system --
Yes.
-- and also the Group Litigation proceedings which were
‘ongoing at the time you joined the Post Office?
Yes. I didn't receive specific training or induction,
from recollection, but I was quite soon attending Group
Executive and Board meetings to minute those.
And I think that's something you touched on in your
statement, that your understanding of the issues
addressed by this Inquiry came from listening to Board
and committee meetings; is that correct?
That's correct.
When you became Company Secretary, then is it correct
you didn't receive any further specific induction or
training at that point?
I didn't.
You explain in your statement that you wouldn't
criticise the lack of special induction given the nature
of your role?
(The witness nodded)
Can you explain what you mean by that?
I think simply that, as you mentioned, I was carrying
out a lot of the day-to-day functions as Head of
Secretariat and so the main change was to have much more
direct interaction with Board Directors at the stage
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I became Company Secretary and, obviously, had overall
accountability when I moved into the Company Secretary
role for running the function in the team.
With hindsight, do you think it would have been helpful
to have any specific briefings or induction at the time
you became Company Secretary?
Ideally.
What would that have involved, ideally?
I think, more than anything, it would be understanding
whether there were any gaps in my knowledge about what
I was expected to fulfil within the role of Company
Secretary versus Head of Secretariat.
Thank you. So turning, then, to your role supporting
the Board specifically, at paragraph 38 of your
statement, you explain that you maintained the Board
forward plan, drafted the agenda and commissioned the
papers that were presented to the Board?
Yes.
In terms of the forward plan, can you describe very
briefly what that was?
Yes. So the forward plan for board meetings set out all
of the cyclical items that were due to go to the Board,
so there would be a Chief Executive's report to each
Board meeting, there would be financial information to
each board meeting; there would be a number of things
97
Not really.
When you say not really, is that in respect of
particular items you might have had input?
Well, there will have been some governance items that
I had produced and included on agendas and, because my
team and I were maintaining a forward plan, we --
I wanted to make sure that there weren't items slipping
from that forward plan.
But other than that, you didn't have input into the
prioritisation of those items?
No.
Once the Chairman had approved the agenda, is it correct
that you would then circulate that along with the papers
for the Board?
That's right.
If there were further updates provided to the Board
‘outside meetings, would you expect to have been copied
in to that correspondence?
I would hope to be.
Could we please have the document with the reference
POL00103607 on screen and the bottom of page 2, please.
Thank you. So we can see there that's an email from
Alisdair Cameron to number of members of the Board on
28 June 2019 and you're copied in to that email. The
subject line is "Three Updates", and he starts the email
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that would come each year, such as the network report,
the annual report and accounts, the business plan, and
so on, and then there would be the additional items
which would be principally around different areas of
different business lines within Post Office, so
insurance and post and telecoms.
Thank you. In terms of the Board agenda, is it right
that you drafted that with input from both the CEO and
also members of Group Executive team?
That's correct.
The final version was approved by the Chair of the
Board?
That's right.
Was that the case in terms of ordinary Board meetings
and also emergency Board meetings?
Yes, certainly for ordinary Board meetings. I think for
additional Board meetings, because they were additional,
we wouldn't have had a forward plan of items for those,
but -- so yes, I would be seeking advice from others in
the business about the content of additional Board
meeting agendas.
Whose responsibility was it to prioritise particular
items of business in the agenda?
Principally the Chairman and the Chief Executive.
Did you have any input into that decision?
98
by saying "Dear Board". If we go over the page, please,
to the third update, he says:
"Thirdly, we have identified an issue on cash rems
which creates differences with Postmasters -- we believe
about 120 branches have been affected. We do not yet
have a root cause and that is the IT priority. In
addition to contact with affected branches, full
communications are going out today research Postmasters
that we are aware, are resolving individual differences
and there will be no adverse consequences. The GLO team
is engaged to ensure we manage this transparently and
document it effectively. We have also had rumours of
issues with scanning but have no [I think that should be
‘not'] identified issues so far.”
So, in respect of those kind of issues, were you
expected to take any action when you were copied into
emails like that?
Not if I was only copied in and there wasn't a specific
request for me to do something.
Did you keep any kind of record of updates provided to
the Board in this way, so outside meetings?
Not just a general email, no.
In terms of progressing matters, these kind of updates,
whose responsibility was it to ensure that things like
this were followed up on?
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I think really it would depend who the -- who'd sent the
email in the first place. So had there been a specific
action at a Board meeting, then it would be for me to
make sure that that was followed up on through
completion of an action. But where it was an email
from, in this instance, Al Cameron to the Board, then,
as he had sent the email and copied me in and not asked
me to do anything further, then I would expect him to
have followed up on it.
Was that a formal arrangement or was that just
an informal understanding?
I think an informal understanding.
Thank you. That document can come down.
So at paragraph 48 of your statement you explain
that the ordinary Board packs tended to be lengthy. Was
that the case throughout your time working for the Post
Office?
It was the case throughout my time working at the Post
Office but it became significantly more so during the
period after the judgments had been handed down.
Did you have a role in determining the level of detail
in the papers that were presented to the Board?
We had -- as the Secretariat, my team and I provided
guidance on reducing papers in the template, but not in
terms of any detail -- sorry, my team and I would
101
information going to the Board becoming more lengthy?
That was a contributory factor but I think just the
range of issues that the Board was considering after the
judgments had been handed down.
Could we please have the document with the reference
POL00393461 on screen, please. At the bottom of page 1,
we can see there's an email from you to the Board on
26 June 2020, and you've attached draft Board minutes.
The email directly above that is a reply from Mr Cooper
who is the shareholder representative on the Board, and
he says:
"I think a number of us are very keen to understand
how issues with Horizon (such as the presence of some
bugs currently) and related process issues (for
example] around outstanding dispute and time to
resolution) are going to be reported so that we can get
comfortable that issues are being resolved in a timely
way. I don't remember the conversation exactly but
I think there's an action for Julie and the team to come
back to us on this isn't there?"
Is that an example of a member of the Board seeking
further assurance from your team about particular
issues?
24 A. Yes, I think that's right.
25 Q. Did you understand who Mr Cooper was referring to when
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have -- did and would have provided support around how
to structure papers and how to structure, for example,
the recommendations section of a paper, where people
needed support on that. But not anything on the
substance of the recommendation or the content of the
paper because I wouldn't purport, and nobody in the
Secretariat would have purported, to be Subject Matter
Experts.
At paragraph 50 of your statement, you observe that the
level of detail required might vary depending on the
trust and confidence felt by individual Board members --
Yes.
-- which could vary over time. Can you explain a bit
about what you mean by that?
Yes. So I think that some Board Directors will
naturally be more interested in the detail than others
and so I think quite often your Audit and Risk Committee
members will be quite keen on seeing the detail. But
J also think, more significantly, after the judgments
had been handed down -- well, sort of any time after the
Common Issues judgment had been handed down, at that
stage I think the Board's confidence was undermined, and
so, therefore, Board members were tending to seek more
assurance about the information they received.
Then did that then lead to the Board packs and the
102
he said "a number of us" at the start of that email?
I don't think I could specifically say which Board
directors that meant but, certainly, I would say it was
true of non-executive Board members.
Thank you. That document can come down. So at
paragraph 35 of your statement you explain that for
ordinary Board meetings, the papers and the agenda would
normally be circulated a week in advance of the meeting,
but you go on to explain that, when the Board started to
meet more frequently, it wasn't always possible to send
the papers a week in advance; is that correct?
That's correct.
In writing your statement, you also went back to look at
the Post Office's annual report and consolidated
financial statements to see how many times the Board met
each year. The report records that in 2019 to 2020 the
Board met 13 times --
(The witness nodded)
~- the next year that increased to 52, and the year
after that -- so 2021 to 2022 -- the Board met 33 times;
is that correct?
That's correct.
Is that a mixture of ordinary and additional Board
meetings?
Itis but there was a fairly regular cycle in 2020/2021,
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looking at all of the Inquiry related matters, so those
meetings tended to take place weekly, whereas the
ordinary Board meetings tended to take monthly, with
some additional meetings on topics such as funding as
well.
Do you explain when the frequency of meetings increased,
sometimes papers were only going to the Board a day or
two in advance; is that correct?
That's correct.
Can we have a look at UKGI00043629, please. Thank you.
At the bottom of page 1, please. So we see an email
from Mr Cameron to you on 18 November 2020, and that was
sent at 18.51 hours. The subject line is "Board Papers
on HSS Funding for tomorrow". HSS, now is referred to
as the Horizon Shortfall Scheme; is that correct?
That's correct.
He says:
"Veronica, I attach three papers for the Board
tomorrow. Please could you add them ... in the
following order."
How common was it for papers to be sent to the Board
the evening before meetings?
I think that was relatively unusual but it was certainly
the case when there were weekly Board meetings that
papers would only be sent a day or two in advance, quite
105
who are you referring to there when you say "the team"?
Oh, no, the team I'm referring to is -- it's Herbert
Smith Freehills and also the Historical Matters Business
Unit. So they worked in conjunction when it came to
looking at items going to the Board and the papers going
to the Board on these matters.
Thank you. You then go on to say:
"To this end item 1 ... of the decision making tools
has been deferred to next week."
We can see that item 1 below is post-conviction
claims. So do we understand from that that, because the
Board papers were received so late, decision making in
respect of this particular matter had to be deferred?
Yes. That's how I would read it. Yes.
Was that something that was common, in your experience?
I think it was common for agendas to move around quite
alot. I would say that one of the challenges, as well
as the frequency of meetings at this stage, was also
that there was information coming from a number of
external legal firms, as well as the Historical Matters
Business Unit working on things, and so the coordination
between those teams and discussions inflight did mean
that the decisions sought of that committee were
changing quite often.
Thank you, If we just go down that page slightly, we
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often.
If we look further up that page, please, we see that
Mr Cameron sends the papers on to a number of
individuals at UKGI a few minutes after sending it to
you. He says in paragraph 2 of his email:
"We have worked through all the comments, albeit in
a bit of a rush, with some of the team attending the
court proceedings."
Did you notice any issue with the quality of the
papers being submitted, whenever this was being done
only a day or two in advance?
Not -- I can't recall specific incidents of that being
the case. However, I think it unlikely that papers
being produced in a rush is going to provide an optimal
paper.
Thank you. If we can move, then, to look at
UKGI00041313, please. Halfway down that page, then, we
can see an email from you on 19 May 2021 to a number of
members of the Board. You say:
"Dear all,
"Given the papers for tomorrow's meeting were only
circulated this morning and there are a lot of important
decisions to take the team has reviewed which decisions
might wait, which are urgent and why."
Just pausing there, is that the Secretariat team or
106
then see that item 2, again, is the Horizon Shortfall
Scheme; is that correct?
Itis.
So that was, again, something where the papers were
going to the Board relatively last minute?
Yes.
Thank you. That document can come down.
Did anyone raise concerns with you about information
relating to important decisions like this going to the
Board at the last minute?
I certainly think it was a challenge, particularly for
Non-Executive Directors, given that they very often had
a portfolio of roles and were not full time at Post
Office, but I suspect it began to feel much more full
time than they might have wished, and it's absolutely
a challenge for somebody who is not a permanent employee
at an organisation to be expected to read quite complex
and detailed papers at short notice.
Did anyone specifically raise concerns with you?
I think that concerns were raised periodically at those
meetings and at Board meetings about the amount of
information that directors were expected to process and
assimilate quickly.
Did you think this was inevitable, given the position
that Post Office found itself in at the time, or could
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anything have been done to handle the situation better?
I think there was probably a tension between wanting to
progress matters quickly and giving people enough time
to thoroughly assess the recommendations.
Do you think that anything could have been done to
assist with that?
I think probably the coordination between the internal
team and the external legal firms might have been better
because I think sometimes the external legal teams
wanted to get matters into a particular Board meeting to
get a decision, and that sometimes meant that papers
were later than one would have wished.
When you say “external legal teams", who are you
referring to, in particular?
Principally Herbert Smith Freehills but Peters & Peters
was also involved.
In terms of the resulting impact on your Secretariat
team, at paragraph 91 of your statement you say that:
"Time had to be spent dealing with new problems as
they arose, Post Office Executives were working at full
strength and the volumes of meetings and the governance
support required meant that my team and I were at times
struggling to keep up.”
Is that correct?
That's correct.
109
situation. It wouldn't have been fair not to advise
people of that and, had I not done so, I don't think
people would have stayed anyway, so that probably
excluded some candidates from wanting to join as well.
At paragraph 97 of your statement, you characterise it
in the following way: you say that one of the reasons
was that the Post Office was a pressure cooker, in your
words at that point. Can you explain what you mean by
that?
I think that the organisation couldn't cope with the
volume of work across a wide range of issues. I think
the senior leadership of the Post Office was primarily
private sector, and had skills and experience in
business, but was much less well served to be able to
deal with all of the matters that the Inquiry is dealing
with, and also, because of the very poor image of the
‘organisation and the need to provide additional
assurance to a whole range of stakeholders, that was
driving additional work through things like increases in
Freedom of Information requests.
So, across the piece and needing to pivot from all
of the matters that are being addressed by the Inquiry,
and running the business of today, attempting to change
the culture of the organisation, I don't think there was
the bandwidth or the resource, and then the organisation
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‘At what point did you start thinking that your team was
struggling to keep up?
I think it took me longer than it should have done but
I don't think I was initially aware that the volume of
meetings was going to be sustained over such a long
period of time, and I also -- having not been in any
situation like it before, I didn't recognise for some
while that it was a company in complete crisis. But
I think, you know, I probably should have realised
earlier but I didn't really appreciate probably until
2021 that it was really unsustainable.
So, at that point, then, you realised the need for
additional resource in your team; is that correct?
That's correct.
You also go on to explain in your statement that, by
that point, it was difficult to attract and retain new
governance professionals in your team?
It was.
Why do you say that?
I think probably a combination of things. I think that
Post Office's reputation was obviously severely damaged.
It also happened to coincide with a spike in demand for
mid-level company secretaries, and I also, in good
conscience, when interviewing people, I couldn't do
anything other than say that it was a difficult
110
also had severe funding challenges, which then meant it
couldn't invest in what it needed to, to support
postmasters better.
Thank you. So turning, then, to a new topic, which is
meeting minutes. From mid-2020, is it right that you
were attending and minuting the majority of Group
Executive Board and committee meetings?
That's correct.
You explain in your statement that you moved to a fuller
style of minutes in general when you became Company
Secretary?
That's correct.
Why was that?
I thought that, given everything that had happened with
the Group Litigation, there would be far more focus on
the organisation and a need for individual directors to
be able to demonstrate challenge, so I thought it was.
important to be able to show who was saying what, and
what information they were asking for.
In terms of the attribution of particular points to
particular people, you explain in your statement that
you had raised the issue with the Chairman at the time,
Mr Parker; is that correct?
That's correct.
When was that?
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That was probably at some point in 2020.
Can you explain the nature of the conversation that you
had with him?
I think it was a fairly brief one, which was explaining,
I think, what I've just mentioned about the importance
of being able to show where individual directors had
made particular points, given the situation.
So was it a conversation initiated by you or by
Mr Parker?
By me.
I want to turn to a specific issue with meeting minutes
that you address quite fully in your statement, and that
concerns the bonus scheme, which is called the
Transformation Incentive Scheme.
Yes.
After leaving the Post Office, you became aware that
this scheme was the subject of an independent review by
the Department of Business and Trade; is that correct?
That's correct.
Could we please have RLIT0000337 -- thank you very
much -- on screen. We can see that this is a review
that was conducted by the law firm Simmons & Simmons,
and it concerned the review of the governance relevant
to Post Office Limited's senior Executive remuneration
in August 2023. If we could turn to page 3 of that
113
"Was RemCo's [the Remuneration Committee] decision
that the Inquiry Metric had been achieved and that
bonuses should be awarded in accordance with it
justifiable?"
At paragraph 3.62 it states:
"It is important to note that because of the poor
standard of RemCo minutes it is not clear precisely what
decision the RemCo took at the relevant RemCo meetings
held on 25 January 2022 and 22 February 2022. Further,
the recollections of those involved are sufficiently
different that we cannot be certain that those attending
those meetings were clear about how the RemCo in fact
read the Second Limb of the Inquiry Support Target,
though there is evidence to support a conclusion that
RemCo took the First Reading.”
Is it correct, then, that you took the minutes at
the meeting on 25 January 2022 --
That's correct.
-- and another member of your team took the minutes at
the meeting on 22 February 2022?
That's correct.
You left the business, then, shortly thereafter --
Yes.
-- So you weren't interviewed as part of this review; is
that correct?
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document, please. Starting at paragraph 1.2, it
explains that:
"The background to our Review is that, on 1 March
2023, [the Post Office] published its Annual Report and
Accounts for the financial year 2021/2022 containing
[the Post Office's] Directors’ Remuneration Report.”
Going down to paragraph 1.4:
"The Annual Report and Accounts included a summary
table setting out the performance assessment for the
Inquiry Metric and its submetrics. The relevant
submetric for the purpose of our Review is known as the
Inquiry Support Target. In relevant part, this summary
table reads as follows
The metric is set out at the bottom of that table.
Under "Target", it says:
"All evidence required and information supplied on
time, with confirmation from Sir Wyn Williams and team
that Post Office's performance supported and enabled the
Inquiry to finish in line with expectations.”
It's marked as having been "Achieved".
So this review then focused on the decision making,
which led to this metric being marked as "Achieved" in
summary. So if we could move to page 23 of this report,
please, about halfway down the page, thank you. The
header there is:
114
That's correct.
So going, then, to paragraph 3.64:
"In terms of our review, this governance weakness
has meant that it has been extremely challenging to
reach a firm conclusion about the basis for RemCo's
decisions and therefore to determine whether those
decisions were justifiable."
There's an excerpt then from the meeting minutes, if
we go to page 51 and that's the excerpt from the meeting
you minuted --
Yes.
which says:
"Tom Cooper asked how we would evidence that we were
meeting the requirements of the Public Inquiry. Nick
Read said that we could provide the positive feedback
we'd received from the Inquiry Team on the disclosures
we had made. AW..."
I think that's Angela Williams?
Yes.
"... added that the [Post Office] team could evidence
that the disclosure requests had been met and the
timings of these. Ben Tidswell noted that the appendix
to the Inquiry paper in the Board pack provided some
helpful detail about our interactions with the Inquiry
Team."
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Finally, at paragraph 7.44, it says:
"It seems likely that Tom Cooper's sensible question
would have been raised in the context of a broader
discussion about the Inquiry Support Target. However,
this limited record of that discussion does not take us
any further in understanding how the Inquiry Support
Target was read by RemCo ...”"
So at paragraph 225 of your statement, you explain
that you don't think the committee was being asked to
take a decision in this meeting.
Er -- sorry.
Can you explain a bit about why you think that's the
case?
Yes, of course. So this was an additional Remuneration
Committee meeting and the Committee at that meeting was.
receiving an update rather than being asked to take any
decisions.
Is that then the reason why we don't see any decision
reflected in the minutes?
That's correct.
What is your response to the criticisms made earlier in
that review, that the governance framework was.
inadequate and the meeting minutes were of a poor
standard?
I think that, generally speaking, the minutes were of
117
meetings; is that correct?
That's correct.
In those circumstances, sometimes the Secretariat team
weren't aware that the decision had been taken?
That's correct.
Could we please have POL00448778 on screen, please.
Halfway down page 1, please, we can see an email from
Angela Williams to you on 25 June 2021, and the subject
is "Remuneration Committee 1 July 2021". She says:
"Many thanks for this.
"Please see comments below."
So if we go over the page, please, at the paragraph
starting 3(a), it says:
"Approval of the Transformation Incentive Scheme
metrics -- this refers to approval by email for
postmaster satisfaction metric which I don't think I've
ever seen? The paper refers to Shareholder approval
being required for the CEO but I think this should be
for the CFO as well?"
Then in red is Ms Williams' response to your
question:
"I have received Tim, Lisa and Ken's approvals but
still awaiting Tom! I will chase again on Monday!
Agree it would apply to everyone and then we need to do
a separate approval letter/paper for Nick and will also
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an adequate standard and that Remuneration Committee
members had a chance to comment on those drafts.
Is it the case that, after you drafted those minutes,
you circulated them to the committee and they were
approved by the committee?
They were.
That document can come down. Thank you. So it's your
response that you think those meeting minutes are
adequate?
I completely accept that the minutes of both meetings
had been deemed to be inadequate and that the minutes of
the meeting that discussed and approved the bonus scheme
payments didn't record the information that was required
to make it clear why the decision had been taken to
apply discretion and to approve the submetric on
providing information to the Inquiry.
Is it your view that the decision was actually reached
in the February meeting, rather than in the meeting that
you minuted?
Yes, because at the January meeting, the Committee
wasn't being asked to take a decision; it was receiving
an update.
Thank you. You go on to explain at paragraph 230 of
your statement that, on occasion, decisions of the
Remuneration Committee were sought and obtained outside
118
reference Al, but he should be included as a GE member
under this approval anyway."
If we go, then, to the top of page 1, please, which
is your response, you email Ms Williams and say:
"With approvals, it would be better if they came
from CoSec ..."
Is that the Company Secretary?
Yes, thank you.
"... $0 that we have a clear company record and audit
trail (not being precious, it's just that recordkeeping
has been a bit of an issue and people always come back
to CoSec when looking for decisions)."
Is that an example of a decision being made without
your team being made aware?
Itis.
At paragraph 230 of your statement you say:
"I am not suggesting this was deliberate, more
indicative of a lack of continuity and thereby
understanding of the required governance."
Can you help us with what you mean by that?
Yes, there had been a very high turnover of Chief People
Officers. I was at Post Office for four years and, in
that time, there were five Chief People Officers, and
I think the absence of continuity certainly had
an impact on Remuneration Committee issues.
120
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So do we take from that that you're suggesting that the
Chief People Officer maybe didn't know that you should
be looped in on all of these decisions being taken?
I think that's right.
Was this a common occurrence?
I think that it was more difficult with remuneration
issues than anything else, because of the requirements
for shareholder approval, and I think that that meant
that there were more discussions outside of meetings and
not going through formal governance than would otherwise
be the case. Part of the issue was that there was
an open timeline for obtaining approvals, so I think, if
you'd been able to say that you could get an approval
within a few weeks, that might have been one thing, but
there were some instances where approvals were sought
but not obtained for the best part of a year.
In that email, you refer to the fact that recordkeeping
has been a bit of an issue. Are you referring there
today Remuneration Committee specifically or a wider
issue?
I was thinking specifically about remuneration issues.
Do you remember any conversation following you raising
this concern with Ms Williams?
No, but I think that Angela had responded to my email
and was supportive of making sure that I and my team
121
approval could take a long period of time. So it wasn't
going to be the case that there was a Remuneration
Committee meeting convened necessarily to have a sort of
subconversation to progress an existing matter.
Thank you. Could we have POL00104112 on screen, please.
Thank you. At page 3, please, we see an email from
Mr Cooper to you -- and a number of others, but it's
addressed to you -- on 22 April 2020, and he says:
“I've got a few points on the minutes from the last
meeting.”
Given the people that received this email, do we
take from that that it's a Board meeting he's talking
about?
Yes.
He then goes on to say:
"In the matters resolved in paragraph 7 it mentions
a route map of decisions leading to the GLO and makes
specific reference to who knew about the Deloitte
report.
"I'd like to clarify the 'who knew about' question
should apply to the various pieces of work commissioned:
[1] following [the Post Office's] response to the
Second Sight Report
"[2] following termination of the Mediation Scheme
"[3] following the Jonathan Swift QC report."
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were looped in, in the future.
Did that in fact happen; did you see a change?
I wasn't aware of formal decisions not coming through
the -- through myself and my team but I would say that
it was still the case that there were quite a lot of
conversations outside of Remuneration Committee
meetings, principally because of, as I say, needing to
obtain shareholder approval. And so the Chair of the
Remuneration Committee, the Chairman, and the
shareholder representative, would quite often have
separate conversations.
How did you become aware that those conversations were
taking place without your knowledge?
Well, usually because when we got to a formal governance
point through a Remuneration Committee meeting, the
position would sometimes have moved on from the previous
meeting, and it was clear from some of the papers coming
through that that had been on the back of the
conversations taking place outside of meetings.
Did you raise that as a separate concern, that you
weren't aware of these conversations going on outside
the meetings?
I didn't because I thought it was the nature of the
beast, as it were, because of requiring shareholder
approval and therefore -- and as I mentioned, the
122
He goes on to say:
"Although not discussed explicitly last week, I hope
we can agree also to look at whether recommended actions
({for example] by the QCs) were not completed or only
partially completed. A good example is the Deloitte
report which as I understand it only addressed the
Horizon system since 2010 notwithstanding the QC's
recommendation to look at remote access over the life of
the Horizon system."
So is this Mr Cooper asking for greater clarity in
the minutes of the Board meeting?
Yes, I would read it as such. I think what Tom Cooper
was saying was that he was providing the Deloitte report
and who knew about that, when, is an example of what
information was known by the Board, by whom and when,
but that actually he wanted to extend that to all of the
issues that were going to the Board or not going to the
Board.
Thank you. So if we go to the email above, then,
please, and you reply saying:
"Thanks Tom
"I'll make those changes."
Then the next email above, and that's an email from
Carla Stent on 23 April 2020, she says:
"2 further comments from me on reading the minutes
124
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She provides two items, and then points out that
there's a typo in one of the appendices.
If we go to the email above, then, from you. You
send that email on to Mr Parker on 23 April 2020 and you
say:
“Please find attached the revised minutes ... with
track changes.”
Is this kind of a typical example of when you sent
the draft Board minutes and people then coming back to
you with suggestions for further input?
Yes.
When you read that exchange, is that indicative of your
initial draft minutes being inadequate, or is it the
case that people are seeking further assurance, as you
explained previously?
I would expect it in the normal course of producing
minutes to ask people to -- directors attending the
meeting -- to provide comments on those minutes. That,
I would just see as a normal way to do things.
Thank you.
Just finally, if we look at the email above. Thank
you. And we see that that's an email from Mr Parker and
he says:
"I'm okay with the revised minute."
125
initially with the Senior Independent Director for
review, and then the report would be sent to the Board,
and the Board would discuss that and then subsequently
would discuss and agree recommendations arising from
that review.
With the externally facilitated review, the
Nominations Committee made a selection of -- from
external providers tendering, and they would conduct
that review. That would be more comprehensive than an
internal review because it would include interviews with
all of the Board members and a number of additional
senior executives.
In terms of the external review, then, was your role to
provide feedback from that review to the Board?
The external facilitator would provide that feedback.
Did you then follow up on which recommendations from
those reviews should be taken forward --
That's right.
-- and keep track on of whether they'd in fact been
achieved?
That's correct.
Could we please have your witness statement on screen,
WITN11420100. Thank you very much. At paragraph 89,
you explain:
“In my opinion the formal governance arrangements at
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So would that then be the point where that would
then be approved as the formal minute of that meeting?
That would be the final draft, but the final draft would
then go into the next meeting pack for approval at the
subsequent meeting.
Thank you, That can come down then, please. Turning,
then, to the topic of governance reporting. Is it
correct that the Post Office reported on its governance
processes annually in the Governance Report?
That's correct.
That report addressed the findings of Board and
Committee Effectiveness Reviews?
That's correct.
Can you explain briefly what those reviews entailed,
please?
Yes. So Post Office would carry out a Board and
Committee Effectiveness Review each year and typically
there would be an externally facilitated review every
third year, which is in accordance with best practice
under the UK Corporate Governance Code. For the
internally facilitated review I would work with the
Senior Independent Director, take proposals for
a questionnaire to the Nominations Committee for
approval. I would then send out the questionnaire,
collate the responses, draft a report, and share that
126
the time I left [the Post Office] were, as a matter of
general principle adequate, but were no longer effective
to deal with the issues which had arisen."
So just pausing there, some people might think
that's a contradiction in terms, that something could be
adequate but ineffective; can you explain what you mean
by that?
I think that the governance framework was adequate but
I think that, because of the pressure that the
organisation was under, and beginning to be able to -
not able to be deliver across the range of issues it was
having to deal with, it would have been better to step
back and see whether we needed to change any of the
governance arrangements and I'm thinking, in particular,
about the very high volume of meetings, the pressure
that put on Non-Executive Directors, and also that
I think that the nature of decisions can change in
a time of crisis, particularly where you're needing to
seek a lot of -- well, you're being asked to provide
a lot of additional assurance because of the low level
of trust that -- well, the shareholder had in the Board
and the Board had, to some extent, in the Executive.
You go on to explain that, that:
"The volume of meetings and the range of decisions
the Board was required to take to address the findings
128
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of the judgments and all that flowed from this, while
trying to oversee the running of the business in
precarious financial circumstances, and with some of the
senior relationships starting to break down (in
particular the CEO, Nick Read, and the CFO, Alisdair
Cameron), meant that the demands on Board time were, in
my opinion, in excess of what would generally be
regarded as sustainable."
So how long do you think the Board had been trying
to operate at a level which was unsustainable by the
time that you left the Post Office?
I think that from probably the spring of 2020, when the
CCRC had referred cases to the Court of Appeal Criminal
Division, and when the Board had decided that it needed
to be responsible for reviewing all of the Inquiry
related matters because they were too important to be
dealt with by a subcommittee of the Board alone, that
was probably the point at which it began to be far, far
in excess of the hours set out in people's appointment
letters.
In relation to your reference there to the breakdown
between Nick Read and Mr Cameron, how do you think that
impacted the Board's work?
Well, I think it's never helpful to have strained
relationships within the top team, and it diverts
129
from a purely private sector background is less attuned
to than somebody who is experienced in working in the
public sector. And so having a shareholder
representative directly from the shareholder, in my
opinion, would that have made more sense at that time.
Thank you. You've already alluded to it but at
paragraph 92 of your statement, you say that, reflecting
‘on things, more consideration should have been given to
how to manage governance arrangements during a period of
crisis for the company.
Could we have a look at POL00448723, please. This
is one of the Effectiveness Reviews, the externally
facilitated one that you referred to earlier, and it's
from March 2021. If we could go to page 4 of that
report, please, and looking at paragraph 8, it says
that:
"Boards typically need actively to shift on a ‘board
governance spectrum’: at times of crisis being close to
the operational detail, and then moving back to a more
normal position of strategic oversight. As [the Post
Office] Board starts to emerge from a time of intense
work on the historical litigation and looks ahead to
shaping a positive future for the business, it will want
to move back to a position where its focus is less
operational and more on strategic oversight. This move
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attention away from the matters an organisation should
be focusing on, to other matters.
Did you observe the breakdown of any other senior
relationships in your time working for the Post Office?
Not that I would call out.
Thank you. That can come down.
So at paragraph 210 of your witness statement, you
also explain that the governance structure at the Post
Office is made more complex by having a shareholder
representative on the Board who is not in fact from the
shareholder. Can you help us with what you mean by
that?
Yeah. I would say that, had Post Office only been
dealing with running Post Office and developing Post
Office, then having a shareholder representative from
UKGI would have made absolute sense because the UKGI
Executive directors come from a business background, and
so, arguably, they're better placed to be able to
provide oversight of the operation of the -- of
a commercial business. But actually, once you've got
into the stage of post-the judgments being handed down,
you were dealing with needing to obtain funding from
Government and needing to understand how Government
operated, and also there were lots of sensitivities
around things like remuneration, which I think somebody
130
needs to be underpinned by grounded trust --
an evidence-based confidence that the organisation is
fully under control. The main theme of this report
could, therefore, be called 'moving along the
strategic-operational spectrum’, considering how the
Board can plan and best equip itself to make this move
when it becomes possible."
So is this what you mean when you refer to
reflecting on what it means to govern a company in
a time of crisis?
Not specifically that point because I think that, by the
time I left Post Office in March 2022, it was still very
much in a period of crisis and, therefore, the
non-executives were more closely involved than might
normal be the case. I think the things I was thinking
of were to do with looking at things like how you
allocated resource, when, because of the different
demands on the company, you quite often needed to pivot
resource from one matter to another and you needed to be
able to have flexible resource.
And I -- my -- I think at the time, there was a lot
of activity going on, a lot of looking at, for example,
how to address the findings from the judgments, a lot of
activity in terms of how do we better support
postmasters, how do we change our culture, how do we
132
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engage more? But I don't think there was an overarching
crisis management plan and, actually, I think that's
probably what was needed for governance, but for other
matters as well.
Whose responsibility would it have been to formulate and
propose that overarching strategy plan?
I think principally the Chief Executive.
Do you think that's something that, from a governance
perspective, you should have raised at the time?
Had I reflected at that time and understood at that time
that it was a sustained period of crisis and how that
might impact on decision making, yes, but unfortunately,
I didn't.
So the final topic I want to address is the culture in
the Post Office during your time working there. So at
paragraph 215 of your statement, you explain that, when
you joined Post Office, the Board's focus was on the
defence of the GLO proceedings rather than the
experience of those involved in it; is that correct?
I believe so.
Is that something that you thought at the time, or is
that something you thought about, reflecting on?
That's with the benefit of hindsight and understanding
now what actually happened.
You describe there being a period of shock following the
133
Across the Board.
Can we have your witness statement back on screen,
please, WITN11420100, at page 43, and there at
paragraph 132, you say that:
"I recall that sometimes work to make [the Post
Office] more postmaster centric unearth the additional
problems which to me demonstrated the scale of the
cultural challenge."
So pausing there, whenever you're talking about the
desire for cultural change, was making the business more
postmaster centric the driving force behind that?
I believe so.
But you explain there:
I recall that when SPMs were asked about their
experience of the branch support centre ..."
That was one of the initiatives set up after the
judgments?
No, it was an existing support centre but postmasters
had been asked for their views about how it was
operating in practice, and there was a senior leadership
group session where three postmasters came to explain
how they found support or lack of support from Post
Office.
Did you attend that meeting?
\ did.
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handing down of the Common Issues judgment --
(The witness nodded)
-- in March 2019.
Mm.
How did that manifest? What did you see that led you to
conclude that the business was in a period of shock?
I think that there was -- I think people will be well
aware that there was a period following the Common
Issues judgment being handed down where Post Office
sought to ask for the judge to recuse himself, and so
I believe it took some while for the Board to actually
fully understand and absorb the fact that the approach
taken to the Group Litigation had been entirely wrong in
substance and in tone.
But I think that, by the end of 2019, when the
Horizon Issues judgment was handed down, the Board
members that actually realised that they had followed
the completely wrong approach to the litigation.
At paragraph 109 of your statement you explain that,
following those judgments being handed down at Board
level, there seemed to you to be a desire to lead and
drive cultural change; is that correct?
Yes.
Did you notice that across the Board or in relation to
particular members of the Board?
134
You explained their responses revealed that not only was
it often not easy to get queries resolved, but also that
the tone and attitude of those working in the Branch
Support Centre were considered an issue. Can you
provide any specific examples of when tone and attitude
were raised as an issue?
Well, one of the postmasters who'd attended that meeting
explained where he had called the Support Centre and
hadn't been able to resolve an issue, and had had to
call back again, rather than somebody saying, "Well,
we're very sorry that we haven't managed to sort out
your query first time round"; it was more of a "Oh, it's
you again" sort of response.
And when did that meeting take place?
This well have been in 2020 or perhaps early '21.
Thank you. That can come down.
So you also point to the appointment of the
Subpostmaster Non-Executive Directors as another
cultural shift, and why did you think that represented
another shift in the business?
Because I think it was bringing postmasters into the
decision -- the top-tier decision making forum of the
company, and able to influence the strategic direction
of the company.
Did you have a role in the onboarding process for
136
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Mr Ismail and Mr Jacobs?
\ did.
Can you explain what your role was in that process?
Yes. It was to help with the induction process. The
induction process was, you know, supported by a number
of people but, when it came to providing induction
materials, that fell mainly to me.
Was that actually drafting the induction materials or
collating them?
Well, we had a standard bundle when it came to core
documents, such as the Articles of Association, and so
‘on, but when it came to producing the briefing note,
I produced that with input from others.
What issues were on your mind when you were drafting
that that might be right particular to SPM NEDs who were
joining the Board, as opposed to other Board members?
I don't think I thought of anything particularly in
terms of the briefing note because the briefing note was
to set out the main topics that the Board was.
considering at that time and then providing papers that
linked to those main topics.
I think, in thinking about subpostmasters joining
the Board, the things I was thinking about was the time
commitment, given the state of crisis the company was in
and the very high volume of Board meetings that were
137
Yes, so under the UK corporate governance got the
subcommittees of Boards are meant only to have
a membership of Independent Non-Executive Directors, and
the reason for that is that not being independent is
seen as one factor that can impair the objectivity of
your decision making.
You go on to say:
"As you know, explaining rather than complying is
always an option and to be honest it's less the
independence issue that I'm concerned about than it
being overwhelming if the new appointees have no prior
Board experience, are trying to do a full-time day job
and have a substantial induction programme to cover ..."
So there the new appointees that you're referring to
are the Subpostmaster NEDs?
That's right.
Just to break that sentence down, when you say
“explaining rather than complying is always an option",
do you mean that you can explain a breach of the UK
Governance Code?
Yes, the UK Governance Code allows companies to explain
why they're not following a particular provision where
there's a good reason not to do so.
At that point, given that there was already a breach
because Mr Cooper sat on RemCo and ARC, had the Post
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being held; the fact that most of the non-executives had
a portfolio of non-executive roles, whereas Saf Ismail
and Elliot Jacobs were running post offices and retail
businesses, so the time commitment was going to be
harder for them than the other non-executives; the
non-executives on the Post Office Board, I think, had
said to a person that it was the most challenging
non-executive role they had.
So it was things like that I was thinking about when
they were joining the Board.
Thank you. Can we have on screen, please, POL00448777,
and page 2, please, and if we can go down that at page,
please. Thank you. So at the bottom of that page is an
email from you on 28 January 2021 to Mr Parker and, if
we go to the second paragraph of that email, which is
‘over the page. You explain:
"There are a number of governance issues I've
flagged. We already breach the UK Corporate Governance
Code as Tom sits on RemCo and ARC but isn't
an independent NED and if the PM NEDs [the Subpostmaster
NEDs] were to join committees, we'd exacerbate that
issue (we will in any case no longer have a majority of
independent NEDs on the Board)."
Can you explain that issue that you're raising
there, please?
138
Office in fact explained that breach of the governance
code?
In its governance report, in the Annual Report and
Accounts, I believe it did.
You explain that it's less the independence issue,
rather than it might be overwhelming if the SPM NEDs
were to sit on Board committees. So is your primary
concern it being too much information too quickly for
the SPM NEDs?
Yes, given the situation the company was in at the time.
But I do say elsewhere, I believe, that my suggestion
was that the new Postmaster NEDs -- and we didn't know,
I believe, at this time, who the Postmaster NEDs were
going to be and therefore whether they had prior Board
experience or not, but my subsequent suggestion was that
the Postmaster NEDs attended one of each of the
committee meetings to get a feel for how they operated
but that there was a pause for a few months on
considering whether to appoint them to committees, so
that they had time, essentially, to get their feet under
the table.
When you say, “it's less the independence issue that I'm
concerned about", was that because, in your view, the
Post Office could just explain the situation?
Yes, and, you know, there'd been a very valid reason for
140
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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
the shareholder representative being on those
committees. So there would equally have been
an argument for the Postmaster NEDs to join those
committees.
Thank you. That document can come down.
Mr Jacobs gave evidence to the Inquiry last week,
and he explained in his evidence that the Post Office in
his view underestimated the need to train the new SPM
NEDs properly and described their training as intense
but limited. Did either of the SPM NEDs raise concerns
with you at the time?
They didn't at the time but then I think you have to set
that in the context of Saf and Elliot having been
through quite an intensive induction programme and my
leaving Post Office within ten months of them starting.
So they probably hadn't, at that stage, really, if
anything, recovered from the initial induction
programme.
You explain that, by the time you left the Post Office,
your view was that they were full and valued
participants at Board meetings and their contributions
were valued?
That was what I felt from my observation of those.
meetings and the fact that they were -- looking back at
the minutes, they were contributing across all of the
144
your witness statement you provide the example of
a colleague survey in March 2022 which returned poor
results.
(The witness nodded)
What's your recollection of that survey?
My recollection of that survey and the results was that
the position hadn't materially improved from when
McKinsey had carried out an organisational health index
and the results of that were that it placed Post Office
in the lowest quartile when it came to their benchmark
of results, and that one of the things that stood out
particularly was low levels of trust across the
organisation but including within the senior leadership
group.
Thank you.
Just finally, then, if we could look back to your
witness statement, WITN11420100, at page 40 and at
paragraph 123, you say:
"Ultimately though, by the time I left in March
2022, I thought that [the Post Office's] reputation
might have been damaged beyond the point of repair and
that the huge challenges for the business going forward,
as well as addressing the issues of the past, while in
a precarious financial position, might have made the
changes needed, culturally and otherwise,
143
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topics raised at Board.
The Inquiry is familiar with The Times article dated
19 February 2024, and I think you've also seen a copy of
that article.
'have.
In that article, Mr Jacobs is reported to have said that
the culture still exists that postmasters are guilty and
“on the take", and that they -- him and Mr Ismail --
continue to be ignored and seen by many as an annoyance;
is that something you observed?
Not at Board level, and I think my primary contact with
Saf and Elliot was at Board meetings and around Board
meetings.
When you say not at Board level, did you observe it in
other areas of the business?
Not that I came into contact with, no.
Did you receive any reports of that kind of feeling in
different areas of the business?
No, though I think, as I've mentioned in my witness
statement, there were clearly still cultural issues.
I've mentioned the help centre not being helpful.
Thank you.
So despite observing a desire for a cultural change
at board level, you explained that there were a number
of things that pointed in the opposite direction. In
142
undeliverable."
So why do you say there that you think the Post
Office's reputation might have been damaged beyond the
point of repair?
Because I think those low levels of trust permeated
throughout the organisation, the view of the shareholder
of Post Office, and in the outside world.
MS MILLAR: Thank you, Ms Branton. Those are all the
questions I have for you.
Sir, can I just check, first of all, if you have any
questions for Ms Branton?
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: No thank you, no.
MS MILLAR: _ I'll just turn to the Core Participants.
Sir, Mr Stein has two minutes’ worth of questions,
so I think that will be fine without having a break.
Yes, I think that we have agreement from the
shorthand-writer.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: All right, Mr Stein, you've limited
yourself very strictly. Over to you.
Questioned by MR STEIN
MR STEIN: Thank you, sir.
Ms Branton, my name is Sam Stein. I represent
a large number of subpostmasters and people that worked
in branches as well.
The topic I want to ask you about is about the other
144
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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
handover, the handover to the witness that we had
earlier today, that's Ms Scarrabelotti, okay, because
she took offer from your role?
She did.
You've just been speaking to Ms Millar about the fact of
‘other people coming on Board at the performance --
Yes.
-- and about the induction process and the like, so
I just want to ask you about her induction process and
what she knew about it.
At paragraph 124 of your statement, which is the
paragraph after the one Ms Millar looked at, you're
referring there to people who are joining, potentially,
an organisation in crisis may want to because it's
a challenge, because they may want to be part of turning
it around. In the paragraph Ms Millar was pointing to,
you say there that there were lots of difficulties and
you weren't certain it could survive, the Post Office.
Mm.
So with that rather long introduction, minute 2 now, did
you tell Ms Scarrabelotti had, "Look, this place is in
crisis, really not sure it's heading for a great
future"; did you give her that as a basic part of her
induction?
I don't think I would have put it as baldly as that.
145
Yes.
-- you lived through the High Court litigation, the
Court of Appeal case, the start of this Inquiry, and so
on?
Yes.
So you kind of saw it all at that stage --
Yes.
-- and I think you recognise, trying to find people that
can take on these pressures, these difficulties, it's
really problematic?
Itis.
MR STEIN: Thank you, Mr Branton.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Thank you, Mr Stein.
That's it, is it, Ms Miller?
MS MILLAR: Itis. Thank you very much, sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, thank you very much, Ms Branton for
coming to give evidence and for providing a witness
statement. I am very grateful to you.
THE WITNESS: = Thank you.
MS MILLAR: Thank you, sir. I think we're back Tuesday next
week.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: 10.00 on Tuesday morning, everyone.
MS MILLAR: Yes, thank you.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Bye.
147
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4 October 2024
I think I will have explained the great pressures the
organisation was under.
Because there's a ten-page note that you left her and
I don't have the time, within my self-imposed two
minutes, but you'll remember it, perhaps. It certainly
doesn't convey a sense of crisis. It does talk about
the challenges in having meetings and that there were
lots of meetings -
Yeah.
-- but it doesn't say the word "crisis" occur anything
close to that. Why not?
I'd probably be more likely to talk to somebody about
that than put it in a note.
And did you, though, that's the question?
Did 1? (Pause)
I think I probably talked about the pressure of
work, rather than talking about -- I don't think I will
have said that the organisation was in a state of
crisis, and I think some of my understanding of the
organisation being in a state of crisis is having
stepped back from being in that pressure cooker
environment and really fully understanding that.
So, really, in the last dying seconds -- I've probably
trespassed over my two minutes -- one of the things, you
were there for about four years since 2018 --
146
(3.08 pm)
(The hearing adjourned until 10.00 am
on Tuesday, 8 October 2024)
148
(37) Pages 145 - 148
The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
INDEX
RACHEL SCARRABELOTTI (sworn) ..... ve
Questioned by MS HODGE 1
Questioned by MR JACOBS
80
VERONICA JANE BRANTON (affirmed) 90
Questioned by MS MILLAR ... 91
Questioned by MR STEIN .. 144
149
4 October 2024
(38) Pages 149 - 149
MR JACOBS: [4]
80/21 84/22 86/19
89/22
MR STEIN: [2]
144/21 147/12
MS HODGE: [13] 1/3I
1/5 1/9 35/13 45/21
47/21 48/2 48/4 70/17
80/15 90/1 90/14
90/17
MS MILLAR: [8]
90/21 90/23 91/2
144/8 144/13 147/16
147/21 147/24
SIR WYN WILLIAMS:
[40] 1/4 33/23 34/10
34/15 34/21 34/23
34/25 35/7 35/12 46/1
46/10 46/24 47/14
47/18 47/23 48/3 68/4
68/13 68/19 68/23
68/25 69/5 69/9 69/15
69/25 70/6 70/13
70/16 84/17 86/18
90/3 90/12 90/16
90/22 144/12 144/18
147/14 147/17 147/23}
147/25
THE WITNESS: [5]
80/19 89/25 90/11
147/13 147/20
"24 [1] 136/15
"22 [1] 32/1
"23 [1] 52/17
"board [1] 131/17
"is [1] 40/6
"moving [1] 132/4
‘not! [1] 100/14
"the [2] 56/14 56/15
‘who [1] 123/20
1
41 January [1] 63/24
41 July [1] 119/9
1 June [2] 5/24 93/4
4 March [1] 114/3
1.2 [1] 114/1
1.4 [1] 114/7
1.45 [2] 90/14 90/20
10.00 [2] 147/23
148/2
100 [1] 87/7
109 [1] 134/19
11.07 [4] 47/24
11.25 [2] 47/21 48/1
11.45 [1] 81/1
113 [1] 6/1
118 [1] 43/17
12.32 [1] 90/18
120 [1] 100/5
123 [1] 143/18
124 [1] 145/11
13 [1] 104/17
13 March [1] 3/8
132 [4] 135/4
15 [2] 3/12 49/8
16 February [1] 2/8
17 January [2] 76/12
77/6
18 January [1] 77/14
18 November [1]
105/12
18.51 [1] 105/13
19 [2] 20/10 81/8
19 February [1]
142/3
19 July [1] 4/6
19 May [1] 106/18
2
20 February [1] 2/19
20 January [1] 78/6
2002 [1] 7/1
2006 [1] 93/14
2010 [1] 124/7
2011 [1] 7/11
2013 [1] 73/18
2018 [7] 7/17 73/15
73/24 92/23 93/2 94/1
146/25
2019 [13] 36/12
36/25 62/10 62/22
65/16 93/2 93/4 93/5
94/9 99/24 104/16
134/3 134/15
2020 [12] 16/15
62/10 103/8 104/16
105/12 112/5 113/1
123/8 124/24 125/5
129/12 136/15
2020/2021 [1] 104/25
2021 [10] 62/13 63/1
104/20 104/25 106/18)
110/11 119/8 119/9
131/14 138/14
2021/2022 [1] 114/5
2022 [21] 8/2 8/10
48/11 58/18 63/24
64/11 64/19 64/20
64/22 92/24 93/7
93/21 104/20 114/5
115/9 115/9 115/17
115/20 132/12 143/2
143/20
2023 [17] 5/24 5/24
26/17 35/15 35/18
38/9 48/25 49/6 50/15)
57/2 63/17 73/21
73/22 74/1 87/6
113/25 114/4
2024 [16] 1/1 2/8 3/8
4/6 4/17 51/6 55/8
55/20 56/10 67/15
70/24 72/21 72/24
91/9 142/3 148/3
21 [1] 93/1
210 [1] 130/7
213,000 [2] 36/23
38/14
215 [1] 133/16
22 [2] 60/12 91/15
22 April [1] 123/8
22 February [2]
115/9 115/20
225 [1] 117/8
23 [1] 114/23
23 April [2] 124/24
125/5
23 June [1] 87/6
23 October [1] 52/17
230 [2] 118/23
120/16
25 [4] 91/22
25 January [2] 115/9
115/17
25 June [1] 119/8
25 October [1] 75/24
26 April [1] 5/24
26 July [1] 93/5
26 June [2] 55/20
103/8
260 [1] 7/22
28 February [2]
35/18 35/24
28 January [1]
138/14
28 June [1] 99/24
28 March [1] 3/21
29 [1] 5/3
29 August [2] 4/17
6/15
3
3.08 [1] 148/1
3.62 [1] 115/5
3.64 [1] 116/2
31 [1] 86/18
31 May [1] 93/2
31 October [2] 49/6
54/22
33 [4] 3/24 60/13
81/7 104/20
35 [1] 104/6
36 [1] 2/13
37 [1] 20/8
38 [1] 97/14
4
4 June [2] 51/8 51/10
4 September [1] 91/9)
40 [1] 143/17
40 pages [1] 2/12
43 [1] 135/3
44 [1] 5/3
45 [2] 86/13 86/17
48 [1] 101/14
5
5 million [1] 83/13
50 [3] 2/25 20/7
102/9
50 pages [1] 3/22
51 [4] 116/9
52 [1] 104/19
56 [1] 5/21
6
63 pages [1] 2/24
68 [1] 6/1
69 [1] 91/16
7
7.44 [4] 117/1
71 [2] 43/17 92/3
78 [1] 91/22
8
8 July [1] 52/11
8 October [1] 148/3
83 [1] 4/21
85 [1] 81/8
85 pages [1] 4/20
86 [4] 5/21
89 [1] 127/23
9
9.1 [1] 49/9
9.59 [1] 1/2
91 [4] 109/18
92 [1] 131/7
93 pages [1] 3/11
97 [A] 1114/5
A
abilities [1] 28/4
ability [1] 8/25
able [13] 50/8 60/19
111/44 112/17 112/18
113/6 121/13 128/10
128/11 130/18 132/20}
136/9 136/23
about [87] 6/22 9/14
11/1 14/19 15/20
17/16 17/22 18/8 19/7I
20/1 21/2 22/9 24/7
26/3 26/9 31/19 32/20
41/22 42/21 43/5 46/2
46/4 46/6 46/18 47/7
47/8 48/11 50/2 52/13
59/23 63/4 64/4 67/19
67/25 68/8 68/20
76/15 77/17 80/25
80/25 82/4 82/17
85/11 86/11 87/3
88/24 93/7 97/10
98/20 100/5 102/14
102/24 103/22 108/8
108/21 113/5 114/24
115/12 116/5 116/24
4117/4 117/42 121/21
123/13 123/18 124/14]
128/15 133/22 135/9
135/14 135/19 137/22)
137/23 138/9 139/10
140/23 144/25 144/25)
145/5 145/8 145/9
145/10 146/6 146/12
146/16 146/17 146/25)
about' [1] 123/20
above [6] 20/22
103/9 124/19 124/23
125/4 125/22
absence [1] 120/24
absolute [1] 130/16
absolutely [8] 18/23
24/22 26/21 34/24
86/2 87/3 89/6 108/15
absorb [1] 134/12
abusing [1] 37/12
accept [1] 118/10
accepted [1] 25/20
access [2] 91/18
124/8
accompanying [1]
64/15
accordance [2]
115/3 126/19
Account [1] 40/11
accountability [4]
14/6 82/2 82/6 97/2
accountable [4] 9/5
59/14 71/23 81/4
accountant [1] 45/6
accounting [5] 31/25
37/13 38/21 39/19
42/16
accounts [8] 32/6
32/11 37/3 39/8 98/2
114/5 114/8 140/4
accumulated [1]
36/12
accumulating [1]
36/25
accurate [1] 19/1
achieve [2] 22/3
30/14
achieved [4] 114/20
114/22 115/2 127/20
acknowledge [1]
27/114
across [10] 21/24
60/13 82/9 111/11
111/21 128/11 134/24)
135/1 141/25 143/12
act [1] 28/22
acting [4] 14/16 15/3
28/25 31/1
action [15] 32/18
32/20 51/15 52/16
52/18 52/20 53/13
53/16 53/19 53/22
54/18 100/16 101/3
101/5 103/19
actions [3] 51/16
92/15 124/3
(39) MR JACOBS: - actions
A
actively [2] 89/19
131/17
activity [4] 54/11
60/7 132/22 132/24
actual [1] 39/7
actually [13] 14/19
15/7 40/25 71/21
84/14 118/17 124/16
130/20 133/2 133/24
134/11 134/17 137/8
acutely [1] 81/16
ad [1] 61/2
add [2] 91/23 105/19
added [1] 116/20
addition [3] 54/15
64/12 100/7
additional [14] 13/4
98/3 98/17 98/17
98/20 104/23 105/4
110/13 111/17 111/19}
117/14 127/11 128/20
135/6
address [6] 15/20
24/7 113/12 128/25
132/23 133/14
addressed [9] 35/17
35/24 38/3 95/23
96/10 111/22 123/8
124/6 126/11
addressing [2] 10/4
143/23
adequacy [3] 10/9
18/11 81/10
adequate [6] 79/7
118/1 118/9 128/2
128/6 128/8
adjourned [1] 148/2
Adjournment [1]
90/19
administrative [1]
93/17
admissibility [1] 66/7)
admit [1] 66/18
admitted [3] 6/23 7/3
8/13
adopt [1] 13/10
adopting [1] 30/20
adoption [2] 62/21
63/7
advance [7] 41/24
66/17 104/8 104/11
105/8 105/25 106/11
advantages [2] 30/4
30/19
adverse [1] 100/10
advice [6] 8/17 8/25
42/21 42/25 85/18
98/19
advise [6] 16/3 41/25
75/25 76/14 77/22
111/1
advised [5] 23/6
32/25 34/8 36/4 37/8
affected [3] 82/19
100/5 100/7
affecting [3] 11/12
27/16 82/6
affects [1] 8/25
affirmed [2] 90/25
149/5
Africa [1] 7/18
after [21] 8/4 32/20
40/4 63/23 64/1 71/2
71/3 90/15 93/21
95/16 95/17 101/20
102/19 102/20 103/3
104/20 106/4 113/16
118/3 135/16 145/12
afternoon [3] 80/21
90/21 90/23
again [10] 39/1 47/20
51/5 53/22 73/24
108/1 108/4 119/23
136/10 136/13
against [1] 29/18
age [2] 25/25 58/4
aged [2] 17/13 17/18
agencies [2] 62/17
66/4
agenda [21] 14/12
14/17 14/18 15/5 15/8
15/9 15/13 15/14
18/17 18/18 49/23
51/12 52/14 52/22
67/7 67/8 97/16 98/7
98/23 99/12 104/7
agendas [5] 14/21
74/4 98/21 99/5
107/16
agents [1] 63/25
agile [1] 66/8
agonising [1] 83/1
agree [5] 58/3 61/3
119/24 124/3 127/4
agreed [1] 36/19
agreement [2] 51/2
144/16
ahead [5] 23/5 39/14
55/10 71/21 131/22
Al [5] 74/17 79/18
94/17 101/6 120/1
albeit [2] 66/9 106/6
alerted [1] 34/11
align [2] 11/18 29/2
alignment [5] 28/11
29/5 29/6 29/7 31/5
Alisdair [2] 99/23
129/5
alive [4] 29/18
all [46] 2/2 9/7 10/1
11/13 13/24 26/16
28/21 35/7 35/12 38/7
46/8 46/14 47/9 57/3
68/5 69/19 69/20
72/22 74/13 74/15
74/16 78/25 78/25
79/11 79/13 82/22
90/6 91/15 92/17
97/21 105/1 106/6
106/20 111/15 111/21
114/16 121/3 124/16
127/11 129/1 129/15
141/25 144/8 144/10
144/18 147/6
allegation [1] 44/24
allegations [1] 44/19
alleged [3] 37/10
40/21 68/10
alleviate [1] 14/1
alleviated [1] 73/1
allocated [1] 132/17
allow [2] 54/16 84/15
allows [1] 139/21
alluded [1] 131/6
alone [1] 129/17
along [4] 18/5 89/17
99/13 132/4
already [6] 23/23
38/3 95/18 131/6
138/18 139/24
also [39] 12/19 15/9
16/19 18/1 18/14
42/18 44/15 46/10
58/5 61/1 65/20 72/1
75/14 79/16 83/14
85/21 96/3 98/9 98/15
100/12 102/19 104/13
107/3 107/18 109/16
110/6 110/15 110/22
110/23 111/16 112/1
119/25 124/3 128/16
130/8 130/24 136/2
136/17 142/3
alter [1] 50/5
alternative [1] 80/12
Although [1] 124/2
always [5] 29/2
104/10 120/11 139/9
139/18
am [12] 1/2 9/5 13/7
46/15 47/24 68/19
69/6 70/6 92/14
120/17 147/19 148/2
Amanda [1] 79/17
amazing [1] 28/4
amended [1] 5/18
amendment [2]
91/16 91/18
amendments [2]
91/13 92/1
amongst [3] 57/24
76/15 78/20
amount [2] 24/20
108/21
amounts [1] 36/20
analysis [1] 60/16
Angela [3] 116/18
119/8 121/24
announced [1] 73/19
annoyance [1] 142/9
annual [7] 32/10
70/22 98/2 104/14
114/4 114/8 140/3
annually [1] 126/9
another [8] 20/22
24/24 28/15 30/16
115/19 132/19 136/18
136/20
answered [1] 57/6
any [46] 2/2 9/22
9/23 10/25 15/19
32/24 38/18 39/2
42/21 42/25 45/15
48/9 48/14 56/8 63/23)
64/14 67/19 68/7
72/18 72/25 82/8
87/11 89/8 89/22
89/23 95/22 96/14
97/5 97/10 98/25
100/16 100/20 101/25}
102/20 106/9 110/6
117/6 117/16 117/18
121/22 128/13 130/3
136/5 138/22 142/17
144/10
anyone [3] 11/6
108/8 108/19
anything [11] 92/12
97/9 101/8 102/4
109/1 109/5 110/25
121/7 137/17 141/17
146/10
anyway [4] 46/24
92/22 111/3 120/2
apologise [1] 74/1
apparent [4] 32/6
36/5 47/8 81/17
Appeal [2] 129/13
147/3
appear [1] 80/21
appearance [1]
43/21
appeared [1] 54/10
appears [5] 22/21
59/19 60/20 61/21
81/17
appendices [2] 49/15]
125/3
appendix [1] 116/22
applicable [1] 10/1
applied [1] 38/24
apply [3] 118/15
119/24 123/21
appoint [5] 27/8
73/12 76/25 80/13
140/19
appointed [4] 7/11
8/13 91/17 93/25
appointees [2]
139/11 139/14
appointment [17]
29/25 45/12 59/1 63/3
73/14 75/4 75/5 75/6
75/11 75/16 75/21
76/16 77/18 77/25
78/8 129/19 136/17
appraisal [7] 70/22
71/14 71/20 71/22
72/10 72/20 73/5
appreciate [2] 34/16
110/10
appreciated [1]
42/19
approach [29] 13/5
13/10 14/11 30/5
30/20 32/14 33/22
44/22 45/7 48/11
60/17 61/14 61/16
62/13 62/16 62/20
63/1 63/6 63/8 63/12
65/10 65/15 66/10
66/17 77/7 77/10
78/15 134/12 134/18
approached [1]
60/18
appropriate [12]
38/19 39/3 47/1 47/4
47/6 52/25 57/15
57/17 67/23 73/3 73/7
79/9
appropriately [1]
78/23
appropriateness [1]
56/23
approval [23] 50/8
50/11 56/4 56/5 56/24}
57/10 58/8 60/21 64/3
67/18 76/5 119/14
119/15 119/17 119/25)
120/2 121/8 121/13
122/8 122/25 123/1
126/4 126/24
approvals [4] 119/22
120/5 121/12 121/15
approve [4] 67/4
67/12 68/21 118/15
approved [6] 76/7
98/11 99/12 118/5
118/12 126/2
approximately [2]
7/22 71/3
April [7] 5/24 8/14
38/9 40/2 123/8
124/24 125/5
arbiter [1] 69/19
ARC [2] 138/19
139/25
are [99] 1/14 1/25 2/2
4/25 6/18 10/16 11/9
11/14 12/17 12/18
12/20 13/21 14/3 14/8)
15/7 15/10 15/12
15/24 18/13 19/21
19/21 21/6 21/6 21/7
21/23 22/22 23/18
24/23 28/2 28/21
29/13 29/15 30/25
(40) actively - are
A
54/5 54/8 56/1 56/16
82/5 82/12 82/13
82/13 82/17 85/8
86/24 87/22 88/5
88/16 88/17 88/18
88/21 88/22 88/23
100/9 100/9 103/12
106/24 107/1 109/13
111/22 115/10 118/8
139/2 139/12 139/15
142/7 144/8 145/13
area [1] 21/23
areas [6] 29/4 39/17
89/15 98/4 142/15
142/18
arguably [1] 130/18
argument [1] 141/3
arisen [4] 1/20 38/4
52/16 128/3
51/13 51/13 127/4
arm [2] 7/12 57/11
arose [2] 73/18
109/20
around [14] 24/24
29/12 36/22 55/13
59/1 61/18 82/24 98/4
102/1 103/15 107/16
130/25 142/12 145/16}
arranged [1] 74/10
arrangement [2]
81/12 101/10
arrangements [6]
7/22 63/9 84/9 127/25
128/14 131/9
arrived [1] 36/3
article [3] 142/2
142/4 142/6
articles [2] 84/8
137/11
as [195]
ask [26] 2/12 2/24
3/12 3/24 4/20 6/22
9/9 9/14 21/2 22/9
31/19 42/21 46/1
46/25 63/4 69/9 80/24)
82/4 83/5 86/11 92/1
92/19 125/18 134/10
144/25 145/9
asked [15] 52/23
54/1 66/17 72/16
77/15 77/22 83/5
101/7 116/13 117/9
are... [66] 31/10 38/7
39/15 40/15 42/3 42/4,
44/18 51/9 51/10 54/4
60/12 65/7 68/8 69/25)
70/9 70/13 80/7 81/16
85/20 86/4 86/7 86/22
89/7 89/8 91/12 100/8,
103/16 103/17 106/22)
121/18 125/15 138/17)
arising [5] 23/4 39/18)
135/14 135/19
70/10 112/19 124/10
asks [1] 41/22
aspect [1] 50/7
assess [1] 109/4
assessing [1] 65/21
assessment [1]
114/9
assimilate [1] 108/23
assist [6] 48/8 50/13
56/8 83/22 84/13
109/6
assistants [1] 80/23
associate [1] 93/13
associated [2] 13/2
14/8
Association [1]
137/11
assuming [2] 31/6
39/6
assumption [1] 39/5
assurance [19] 38/7
40/1 52/4 55/21 56/18)
58/9 58/19 60/4 60/14
61/12 64/1 65/18
65/22 67/13 102/24
103/22 111/18 125/15)
128/20
at [218]
attach [1] 105/18
attached [3] 61/10
103/8 125/7
attempt [1] 77/11
attempting [1]
111/23
attend [3] 54/23
87/11 135/24
attendance [2] 20/12
66/21
attended [9] 18/1
52/18 66/25 74/11
77/16 87/15 88/2
136/7 140/16
attendee [1] 85/14
attending [6] 85/17
96/6 106/7 112/6
115/11 125/18
attention [4] 32/2
33/18 78/19 130/1
attitude [5] 21/5
31/17 50/3 136/3
136/5
attitudes [2] 19/5
21/17
attract [1] 110/16
attracted [2] 31/10
31/14
attractive [1] 27/7
attributes [1] 75/7
attribution [1] 112/20
attuned [1] 131/1
audit [4] 38/10 39/7
117/16 118/21 128/19)
asking [5] 69/19 70/6
102/17 120/9
audits [1] 24/3
August [4] 4/17 6/15
73/18 113/25
Australia [3] 6/25 7/1
719
Australian [1] 7/4
author [2] 55/20
61/24
authorisation [1]
56/21
authorise [1] 69/16
authorities [2] 63/25
64/10
authority [2] 64/5
83/12
authors [1] 15/25
available [1] 32/23
avoid [2] 37/12 61/7
AW [4] 116/17
awaiting [2] 60/13
119/23
awarded [1] 115/3
aware [18] 24/5
31/23 67/4 67/6 67/11
81/16 86/14 86/24
89/8 100/9 110/4
113/16 119/4 120/14
122/3 122/12 122/21
134/8
awareness [1] 16/11
away [1] 130/1
back [25] 36/3 42/8
46/15 53/6 66/25
67/15 76/25 77/18
83/17 87/24 89/7
103/20 104/13 120/11
122/18 125/10 128/13
131/19 131/24 135/2
136/10 141/24 143/16
146/21 147/21
background [8] 6/22
44/11 45/3 46/25
49/23 114/3 130/17
131/1
balance [1] 66/1
balanced [1] 26/20
baldly [1] 145/25
bandwidth [1]
111/25
barrister [1] 6/24
Bartlett [2] 54/23
55/21
based [7] 38/14
38/20 39/5 39/6 60/11
60/13 132/2
basic [3] 29/8 53/5
145/23
basis [7] 45/7 52/8
53/19 61/15 67/6 69/3
116/5
BAU [1] 65/12
be [202]
bear [2] 49/7 65/19
bears [9] 2/9 2/20 3/7,
3/20 4/7 6/10 22/12
49/9 51/12
beast [1] 122/24
became [10] 93/4
93/21 95/1 95/8 96/13
97/1 97/6 101/19
112/10 113/16
because [43] 13/1
14/7 22/22 27/24
31/12 69/16 70/13
74/20 74/21 77/9
78/14 86/2 94/16 95/3
98/17 99/5 102/6
107/11 109/9 111/16
115/6 118/20 121/7
122/7 122/14 122/23
122/24 127/10 128/9
128/20 129/16 130/16}
132/11 132/17 136/21
137/18 139/25 140/23
144/5 145/2 145/14
145/15 146/3
become [5] 7/17
31/23 68/7 94/18
122/12
becomes [1] 132/7
becoming [4] 36/14
36/16 37/23 103/1
been [108] 6/3 6/4
6/8 15/19 17/10 18/12,
18/23 19/1 19/7 19/22}
19/25 20/23 21/9 23/2
32/14 32/15 34/8 35/3)
36/4 36/21 36/25 37/1
37/4 38/4 38/11 38/14
43/23 44/15 45/1
49/19 49/20 51/18
52/3 52/18 52/21
53/13 57/14 57/22
58/25 71/10 71/19
76/15 77/23 78/8
78/15 78/20 79/2 79/4
79/6 79/7 79/8 82/19
83/5 85/8 87/3 87/18
87/20 88/10 89/4 89/9
89/15 93/13 95/5 97/4
99/4 99/17 100/5
101/2 101/20 102/20
102/21 103/4 107/9
109/1 109/5 109/8
110/6 111/1 114/20
115/2 116/4 116/21
117/3 118/11 118/14
119/4 120/11 120/21
121/13 121/14 121/18}
122/18 127/19 128/12)
129/9 130/13 131/8
133/5 134/13 135/19
136/9 136/15 140/25
141/2 141/13 143/21
144/3 145/5
before [22] 1/24 5/4
6/21 8/4 8/6 30/6 50/1
53/5 56/17 57/4 62/18)
67/19 68/4 68/7 68/15
68/20 76/22 90/9
91/12 92/13 105/22
110/7
began [3] 58/22
108/14 129/18
begin [5] 1/24 2/7
46/18 69/7 91/12
beginning [1] 128/10
behalf [2] 41/12
41/13
behind [3] 11/17
69/20 135/11
being [82] 12/3 14/4
14/11 17/18 22/25
23/6 24/7 27/24 31/24I
32/4 32/5 35/19 37/8
38/2 42/16 44/22
44/23 47/11 47/11
48/17 50/2 53/21 56/9)
56/17 57/15 58/6
58/25 59/13 59/14
60/5 61/23 62/21
63/13 64/20 64/20
68/5 70/13 76/8 79/5
81/4 81/19 81/24 82/5I
82/12 85/11 88/5
88/17 88/17 89/17
93/16 95/23 103/17
106/10 106/10 106/12)
106/14 111/22 113/6
114/22 117/9 117/16
118/21 119/18 120/10)
120/13 120/14 121/3
125/14 128/19 130/21
131/18 133/25 134/9
134/20 138/1 139/4
139/11 140/8 141/1
142/21 146/20 146/21
belief [8] 2/16 3/5
3/18 4/4 4/14 6/16
22/21 92/8
believe [10] 19/24
20/5 31/12 100/4
133/20 134/11 135/12)
140/4 140/11 140/13
believed [1] 67/12
below [3] 25/19
107/10 119/11
Ben [4] 39/11 74/18
79/18 116/22
benchmark [1]
143/10
benefit [4] 28/25
30/23 31/2 133/23
benefits [1] 27/15
beset [1] 18/9
best [15] 2/15 3/4
3/17 4/3 4/13 6/15
28/22 29/3 30/11 31/1
50/13 92/7 121/16
(41) are... - best
B
best... [2] 126/19
132/6
better [11] 26/20
29/22 35/9 66/11
109/1 109/8 112/3
120/5 128/12 130/18
132/24
between [18] 9/11
28/11 31/5 31/7 46/7
47/14 65/7 65/16
77/16 80/6 84/9 86/15
86/22 93/1 107/22
109/2 109/7 129/22
beyond [2] 143/21
144/3
bias [1] 43/21
bit [9] 45/24 83/5
91/5 92/20 102/13
106/7 117/12 120/11
121/18
blurs [1] 14/6
board [285]
Board's [8] 12/6
39/19 48/6 56/23
63/14 102/22 129/23
133/17
boards [4] 12/18
25/21 131/17 139/2
boils [1] 70/14
bonus [2] 113/13
118/12
bonuses [1] 115/3
Book [2] 56/15 59/6
both [14] 7/9 19/1
20/17 41/14 58/9 64/3,
64/7 66/13 69/1 74/8
74/11 75/10 98/8
118/10
bottleneck [2] 60/22
61/3
bottom [9] 20/21
34/25 35/21 41/10
99/21 103/6 105/11
114/14 138/13
bounced [1] 53/3
branch [18] 11/16
18/9 31/24 32/6 32/13
38/7 39/8 40/1 40/15
41/19 41/22 44/21
44/22 46/19 46/23
47/12 135/15 136/3
branches [5] 36/5
38/11 100/5 100/7
144/24
Branton [11] 90/24
90/25 91/4 91/5 92/12
144/8 144/11 144/22
147/12 147/17 149/5
breach [4] 138/18
139/19 139/24 140/1
break [7] 40/23 45/25
47/19 47/25 129/4
139/17 144/15
breakdown [2]
129/21 130/3
bribery [1] 10/6
brief [6] 6/22 17/3
36/7 43/16 49/5 113/4
briefed [2] 10/17
11/8
briefing [3] 137/12
137/18 137/18
briefings [2] 95/22
97/5
briefly [3] 50/2 97/20
126/14
bring [4] 13/24 19/7
29/22 41/25
bringing [3] 18/21
19/25 136/21
brings [2] 45/22
65/18
Brisbane [1] 7/9
broader [2] 49/13
117/3
Brocklesby [1] 88/1
brought [10] 15/22
27/14 27/19 32/2
33/18 48/18 50/1 52/9
84/13 89/7
bugs [4] 18/15 62/10
62/24 103/14
build [1] 27/10
built [1] 38/17
bullet [4] 38/6 39/23
51/17 51/20
bundle [1] 137/10
bursaries [1] 89/13
Burton [2] 79/17 85/7I
business [44] 5/15
7/13 15/6 21/10 21/23)
28/12 36/9 36/13
46/13 47/6 48/19
65/13 72/15 72/19
72/22 72/23 74/17
82/9 82/10 84/23
87/25 88/18 88/22
89/7 98/2 98/5 98/20
98/23 107/3 107/21
111/14 111/23 113/18)
115/22 129/2 130/17
130/20 131/23 134/6
135/10 136/20 142/15)
142/18 143/22
businesses [2] 83/2
138/4
businessman [1]
45/9
but [103] 1/24 3/11
8/13 13/1 14/14 18/22
19/21 21/25 26/21
27/5 28/4 28/25 30/23
31/2 31/8 34/17 35/2
36/15 36/21 38/22
39/6 42/18 42/19
45/18 46/1 46/7 46/10
46/17 46/19 50/3
52/15 53/22 61/6
61/19 63/4 65/20 68/5
69/25 70/3 72/22
74/15 83/13 83/24
85/14 85/23 86/14
87/24 88/12 90/7 96/6
98/19 99/9 100/13
1041/5 101/19 101/24
102/4 102/18 103/2
103/18 104/3 104/9
104/25 105/23 108/14
109/15 110/3 110/8
110/10 111/14 119/18]
119/22 120/1 121/14
121/16 121/24 122/4
123/7 124/16 126/3
128/2 128/6 128/8
130/20 131/6 133/1
133/3 133/12 134/15
135/13 135/18 136/2
137/6 137/12 138/19
140/11 140/15 140/18
141/10 141/12 143/13
146/5 146/10
Bye [1] 147/25
c
call [5] 46/5 61/2
69/11 130/5 136/10
called [5] 52/4 89/4
113/13 132/4 136/8
came [15] 33/11
46/18 48/25 53/6 67/8
78/19 96/10 107/4
120/5 135/21 137/6
137/10 137/12 142/16}
143/10
Cameron [9] 74/17
79/18 94/17 99/23
101/6 105/12 106/3
129/6 129/22
can [108] 1/3 1/4 2/7
2/24 3/12 3/24 4/20
10/13 11/18 12/11
12/23 13/23 14/20
17/3 22/3 22/12 22/14
27/5 30/13 33/23 35/1
35/17 35/21 39/9 40/7
40/12 41/25 42/5 42/9
43/16 46/1 47/19 48/2
49/5 49/18 49/22
50/13 51/8 51/11 54/3
55/6 55/18 60/25 61/1
61/5 61/20 61/25 66/5
69/12 70/11 73/6
74/24 82/10 82/22
83/5 83/8 83/17 87/17
88/13 90/5 90/21 91/2
91/5 92/1 92/5 92/7
92/19 95/25 96/21
97/19 99/22 101/13
102/13 103/7 103/16
104/5 105/10 106/16
106/18 107/10 108/7
111/8 113/2 113/21
117/12 118/7 119/7
120/20 124/3 126/6
126/14 128/6 128/17
130/6 130/11 132/6
135/2 136/4 136/16
137/3 138/11 138/12
138/24 139/5 139/19
141/5 144/10 147/9
can't [4] 34/15 70/5
73/5 106/12
candidate [4] 75/11
75/21 78/11 80/13
candidates [1] 111/4
cannot [1] 115/11
canvassed [5] 71/18
75/15 77/17 78/3 79/4,
capabilities [1] 61/12
capable [1] 64/20
capacity [4] 1/15
43/1 55/9 57/7
Capital [1] 7/5
career [1] 7/7
careful [2] 27/25 28/7I
Carla [1] 124/24
carried [5] 5/22
48/14 54/1 58/17
143/8
carries [1] 85/15
carry [1] 126/16
carrying [2] 42/22
96/22
case [21] 10/20
17/13 49/17 49/22
64/8 67/18 77/8 98/14,
101/16 101/18 105/24
106/13 117/13 118/3
121/11 122/5 123/2
125/15 132/15 138/22)
147/3
cases [3] 57/3 57/16
129/13
cash [4] 29/9 38/8
40/3 100/3
catastrophes [1]
85/2
Categories [1] 62/4
category [1] 82/10
cause [3] 13/19
41/10 100/6
caused [2] 43/6
92/16
causes [2] 13/20
26/23
caution [3] 13/11
42/2 70/8
cautious [1] 70/14
caveat [2] 58/5 64/21
CCRC [1] 129/13
Central [4] 37/19
48/17 50/21 58/18
centre [6] 37/10
135/15 135/18 136/4
136/8 142/21
centric [2] 135/6
135/11
CEO [10] 14/15 14/16}
15/3 33/7 33/12 33/17I
89/1 98/8 119/18
129/5
certain [10] 15/7 21/1
22/2 23/24 27/14
76/13 83/16 84/15
115/11 145/18
certainly [10] 9/25
15/12 43/20 72/7
98/16 104/3 105/23
108/11 120/24 146/5
certificate [1] 93/11
CFO [2] 119/19 129/5
Chair [21] 9/6 15/14
15/15 15/22 26/2 26/8)
35/14 40/7 54/9 54/15
54/18 70/20 71/4 74/3I
76/13 77/15 77/16
78/4 95/5 98/11 122/8
Chairman [4] 98/24
99/12 112/22 122/9
challenge [5] 108/11
108/16 112/17 135/8
145/15
challenged [1] 36/17
challenges [7] 18/9
27/20 27/22 107/17
112/1 143/22 146/7
challenging [4] 85/8
87/23 116/4 138/7
chance [1] 118/2
change [32] 19/7
20/1 20/6 20/23 22/3
27/14 48/21 49/14
50/14 50/24 56/6
59/20 62/20 63/8
66/15 76/15 77/7
78/20 79/2 86/21
87/10 87/25 95/1
96/24 111/23 122/2
128/13 128/17 132/25)
134/22 135/10 142/23}
changed [1] 95/3
changes [15] 11/4
15/19 16/7 49/3 50/2
50/3 50/4 53/2 53/2
53/9 57/25 83/18
124/22 125/8 143/25
changing [1] 107/24
characterise [2] 13/5
111/5
charge [1] 69/13
charged [3] 5/12
28/4 30/9
chartered [3] 7/25
8/1 93/13
chase [1] 119/23
check [3] 32/22 66/1
144/10
Chief [10] 14/16 15/4
(42) best... - Chief
Cc
Chief... [8] 88/4 94/18)
97/23 98/24 120/21
120/23 121/2 133/7
children [1] 89/12
choose [1] 31/10
chosen [1] 64/25
Cl [2] 52/4 58/2
circulate [2] 54/21
99/13
circulated [3] 104/8
106/22 118/4
circumstances [5]
22/4 23/4 77/3 119/3
129/3
citizen [1] 69/1
CIU [5] 37/18 41/23
45/16 52/5 58/24
claims [1] 107/11
clarify [2] 54/24
123/20
clarity [1] 124/10
clear [11] 2/3 12/24
56/2 63/17 68/6 80/11
115/7 115/12 118/14
120/9 122/17
cleared [1] 67/9
clearly [2] 12/15
142/20
CLEP [2] 56/18 59/6
CLEP' [1] 56/15
clients [1] 82/17
close [7] 52/13 52/19
53/16 53/19 69/24
131/18 146/11
closed [4] 52/7 52/8
52/15 54/4
closely [1] 132/14
closer [1] 83/6
closure [2] 51/18
52/1
Co [1] 80/23
code [6] 73/16
126/20 138/19 139/20
139/21 140/2
coincide [1] 110/22
collaboration [1]
53/11
collaborative [4]
62/13 63/1 63/5 63/7
collate [1] 126/25
collating [1] 137/9
colleague [1] 143/2
colleagues [2] 22/19
23/5
collectively [1] 56/15
combination [1]
110/20
come [29] 12/16 13/3
15/7 15/17 24/22
31/11 44/10 51/24
53/20 54/7 55/9 57/16)
57/18 67/15 81/9
83/17 87/24 98/1
101/13 103/19 104/5
108/7 118/7 120/11
126/6 130/6 130/17
136/16 141/5
comfortable [1]
103/17
coming [10] 11/6
35/1 69/17 90/9
107/19 122/3 122/17
125/10 145/6 147/18
commence [1] 76/10
commenced [1]
32/19
comment [3] 15/11
21/3 118/2
comments [5] 15/12
106/6 119/11 124/25
125/19
commercial [1]
130/20
commissioned [2]
97/16 123/21
commitment [2]
137/24 138/4
committee [34] 5/7
5/12 5/16 19/15 74/5
74/9 76/3 79/5 91/19
96/11 102/17 107/23
112/7 115/1 117/9
117/15 117/15 118/41
118/4 118/5 118/20
118/25 119/9 120/25
121/19 122/6 122/9
122/15 123/3 126/12
126/17 126/23 127/7
140/17
committees [7]
12/13 12/19 138/21
140/7 140/19 141/2
141/4
common [7] 102/21
105/21 107/15 107/16)
121/5 134/1 134/8
communicating [2]
34/18 34/19
communication [1]
22/117
communications [3]
22/22 22/25 100/8
communities [1]
89/14
companies [2] 7/22
139/21
company [69] 1/15
1/21 6/18 6/21 7/12
7/17 8/5 8/7 8/14 8/17
8/21 9/15 10/15 10/17)
11/6 11/7 11/10 11/12
11/23 14/25 18/10
28/20 28/23 29/9
29/17 30/21 30/25
31/2 31/15 32/9 43/1
48/13 51/23 54/5
54/17 55/9 57/7 59/2
63/4 76/23 84/10
84/11 84/15 93/4 93/5)
94/2 94/5 94/10 94/12
94/23 95/1 95/8 96/13
97/1 97/2 97/6 97/11
110/8 110/23 112/10
120/7 120/9 131/10
132/9 132/18 136/23
136/24 137/24 140/10
company's [3] 7/16
48/11 48/22
compensate [2]
23/14 23/20
compensation [1]
92/18
complete [2] 16/16
110/8
completed [3] 44/25
124/4 124/5
completed’ [1] 40/6
completely [2]
118/10 134/18
completion [1] 101/5
complex [15] 52/4
55/21 56/17 56/18
58/9 58/17 58/19 60/4
60/15 61/13 64/1
65/18 65/22 108/17
130/9
complying [3] 69/18
139/8 139/18
composition [2] 25/3
25/20
comprehensive [2]
24/24 127/9
compromised [1] 9/7
concern [18] 25/12
26/2 26/4 26/9 26/11
26/21 37/11 38/2
59/23 60/20 73/10
79/3 79/6 79/8 79/25
121/23 122/20 140/8
concerned [9] 32/7
32/9 32/16 38/23
42/18 82/17 113/23
139/10 140/23
concerning [5] 1/20
13/15 16/9 25/3 48/6
concerns [15] 10/25
23/23 24/5 27/16 37/9
52/13 70/18 70/21
73/11 79/22 108/8
108/19 108/20 113/13
141/10
conclude [1] 134/6
concluded [1] 62/23
concludes [1] 90/1
conclusion [2]
115/14 116/5
conduct [7] 24/3
43/13 45/16 48/8
48/11 48/15 127/8
conducted [3] 7/13
54/16 113/22
conducting [1] 42/3
conduit [1] 60/5
confessional [1]
13/24
confidence [5] 22/17
83/19 102/11 102/22
132/2
confidently [1] 65/1
confirm [5] 2/1 87/17
91/2 92/5 92/7
confirmation [1]
114/17
conflict [9] 28/1 29/4
29/5 32/15 37/25 38/4
39/18 44/21 47/8
conflicts [4] 24/8
27/23 28/9 39/21
confronting [1] 87/24I
conjunction [1]
107/4
conscience [1]
110/24
conscious [1] 61/24
consequences [2]
14/3 100/10
consider [16] 11/11
13/19 18/25 21/22
24/10 24/17 25/15
27/22 29/10 30/4
30/19 39/12 57/17
59/12 67/22 72/18
considerable [1]
43/6
considerably [1]
65/20
consideration [5]
20/22 44/15 55/7 56/4
131/8
considered [6] 12/3
17/12 44/23 56/16
62/8 136/4
considering [5]
89/20 103/3 132/5
137/20 140/19
consistent [5] 38/15
58/24 60/23 64/4 80/2,
consolidated [2]
57/22 104/14
constrained [1] 29/9
construction [1] 7/13
consultation [5]
14/23 53/7 53/25
74/18 79/7
consulted [1] 79/17
contact [4] 95/4
100/7 142/11 142/16
containing [3] 4/9
36/10 114/5
contains [1] 62/2
content [10] 2/15 3/4
3/17 4/3 4/13 6/14
15/16 15/17 98/20
102/5
contents [1] 2/1
context [5] 58/12
63/14 66/13 117/3
141/13
continue [1] 142/9
continuity [2] 120/18
120/24
contract [1] 20/16
contractual [1] 84/9
contradiction [1]
128/5
contribute [1] 14/22
contributing [3]
14/13 59/15 141/25
contributions [1]
141/21
contributory [1]
103/2
control [2] 42/8
132/3
controlled [2] 22/23
23/1
convened [1] 123/3
convenient [1] 45/24
conversation [4]
103/18 113/2 113/8
121/22
conversations [6]
95/7 122/6 122/11
122/12 122/19 122/21
convey [1] 146/6
conviction [1] 107/10
cooker [2] 111/7
146/21
Cooper [7] 103/9
103/25 116/13 123/7
124/10 124/12 139/25)
Cooper's [1] 117/2
Cooperation [2]
56/14 57/23
cooperatives [1]
30/22
coordination [2]
107/21 109/7
cope [1] 111/10
copied [6] 77/5 99/17
99/24 100/16 100/18
101/7
copy [4] 2/10 2/21
4/18 142/3
copying [1] 35/18
core [7] 11/14 11/14
80/17 80/22 90/2
137/10 144/13
corporate [12] 1/14
7/7 7/21 8/18 73/16
81/11 88/5 88/11
93/10 126/20 138/18
139/1
corporation [2] 93/18}
93/22
correct [77] 5/1 5/15
5/19 6/11 6/12 7/1
7/19 8/11 8/20 11/25
(43) Chief... - correct
Cc
correct... [67] 12/4
12/9 16/22 17/1 20/13)
27/12 37/19 46/4
50/24 51/6 54/19
57/19 76/6 76/17 78/4,
91/10 91/11 91/20
91/21 91/24 91/25
92/24 92/25 93/3 93/6
93/8 93/19 93/20
96/11 96/12 96/13
98/10 99/12 104/11
104/12 104/21 104/22)
105/8 105/9 105/15
105/16 108/2 109/24
109/25 110/13 110/14
112/8 112/12 112/23
112/24 113/18 113/19}
115/16 115/18 115/21
115/25 116/1 117/20
119/1 119/2 119/5
126/8 126/10 126/13
127/21 133/19 134/22
correction [1] 4/9
corrections [3] 2/3
4/25 6/13
corrective [1] 90/6
correspondence [1]
99/18
CoSec [2] 120/6
120/12
costs [1] 18/14
could [54] 1/6 2/12
9/9 13/1 17/6 20/6
22/13 23/13 25/16
25/22 25/25 26/6
32/24 35/13 38/25
39/22 43/22 44/14
49/4 51/10 65/1 65/2
65/5 65/5 65/11 70/1
81/6 82/8 83/18 83/24
99/20 102/13 103/5
104/2 105/19 108/25
109/5 113/20 113/25
114/23 116/15 116/20
119/6 121/13 123/1
123/5 127/22 128/5
131/11 131/14 132/4
140/24 143/16 145/18
couldn't [3] 110/24
111/10 112/2
counsel [18] 7/11
TINT 8/22 8/24 9/5
32/22 32/25 33/8
33/12 55/23 58/3
58/10 85/10 85/13
85/15 85/17 94/2 94/6
counselling [1] 89/10)
couple [2] 91/12
95/17
course [3] 24/16
117/14 125/17
courses [1] 10/4
court [8] 6/24 6/25
6/25 7/4 106/8 129/13
147/2 147/3
courteous [1] 72/7
cover [1] 139/13
covered [1] 39/16
covering [1] 64/13
Covid [4] 20/10
Covid-19 [1] 20/10
CPO [1] 26/19
created [1] 60/21
creates [1] 100/4
creation [2] 19/13
19/18
crime [3] 68/8 68/9
68/10
criminal [13] 42/3
48/8 48/12 48/16
48/23 54/10 56/8 58/3
58/10 59/5 64/3 65/19
129/13
crisis [15] 110/8
128/18 131/10 131/18)
132/10 132/13 133/2
133/11 137/24 145/14)
145/22 146/6 146/10
146/19 146/20
criteria [2] 12/11
58/7
criticise [2] 84/24
96/18
criticism [1] 81/19
criticisms [1] 117/21
crystallise [1] 83/1
culminated [1] 70/19
cultural [14] 19/4
19/7 20/1 20/5 20/23
22/3 24/12 86/20
134/22 135/8 135/10
136/19 142/20 142/23)
culturally [2] 21/13
143/25
culture [10] 25/3
25/8 27/10 81/1 87/10
87/20 111/24 132/25
133/14 142/7
current [13] 17/22
32/21 50/10 56/13
58/13 60/17 62/24
65/9 65/10 67/21
73/20 81/15 88/4
currently [10] 6/18
24/19 25/17 26/19
50/18 60/12 83/12
86/6 86/8 103/14
customers [1] 25/24
cut [1] 85/11
cyber [1] 86/10
cycle [1] 104/25
cyclical [1] 97/22
D
damaged [3] 110/21
143/21 144/3
data [18] 10/5 18/6
32/23 38/14 38/21
39/6 59/9 60/16 60/19)
62/4 62/16 64/10
64/21 65/2 65/23
67/13 67/19 93/11
date [8] 2/6 5/22 6/5
35/24 55/20 56/24
63/3 64/25
dated [10] 2/8 2/19
3/8 3/21 4/6 4/17 6/14,
49/6 91/9 142/2
dates [2] 2/20 64/19
dating [1] 64/21
day [14] 28/5 28/5
30/9 30/9 42/11 77/14
94/23 94/23 96/23
96/23 105/7 105/25
106/11 139/12
days [2] 55/17 78/6
deal [9] 2/5 19/16
48/19 59/17 81/6 90/7
111/15 128/3 128/12
dealing [6] 4/16
44/13 109/19 111/15
130/14 130/22
dealt [6] 12/7 46/11
46/12 47/11 78/22
129/17
Dear [2] 100/1
106/20
debate [1] 46/6
December [1] 93/14
decide [3] 12/2 66/7
69/12
decided [2] 12/13
129/14
deciding [3] 13/9
35/9 47/16
decision [54] 12/16
27/8 50/6 50/16 50/19
51/3 58/8 59/13 59/14
61/4 61/18 64/7 73/12
75/25 76/16 79/2 79/8
79/10 79/25 80/1 81/3
81/3 81/25 82/8 82/12
82/19 82/24 83/4
83/11 83/19 83/23
84/7 84/13 84/15
84/16 84/19 98/25
107/8 107/12 109/11
114/21 115/1 115/8
117/10 117/18 118/14]
118/17 118/21 119/4
120/13 133/12 136/22
136/22 139/6
decision-making [1]
81/25
decisions [28] 14/19
15/1 29/12 61/1 80/9
81/18 81/23 82/5
82/11 82/14 83/9
83/16 84/11 84/25
106/23 106/23 107/23}
108/9 116/6 116/7
117/17 118/24 120/12}
121/3 122/3 123/17
128/17 128/24
declare [1] 44/20
declared [3] 37/22
37/25 38/4
declined [1] 67/4
dedicated [1] 19/15
deduced [1] 67/9
deemed [1] 118/11
deep [1] 10/15
deeply [1] 87/22
defects [2] 18/15
18/16
defence [1] 133/18
defer [2] 73/5 73/6
deferred [3] 14/21
107/9 107/13
definitely [1] 25/17
degree [3] 13/7 44/12)
70/8
delays [3] 18/14
82/17 82/19
delegate [1] 51/3
delegated [4] 12/17
12/18 12/20 83/12
delegation [4] 12/25
58/8 64/5 83/13
deliberate [1] 120/17
deliver [1] 128/11
delivery [3] 5/13
19/11 20/18
Deloitte [3] 123/18
124/5 124/13
demand [1] 110/22
demands [2] 129/6
132/18
demarcates [1]
12/15
demonstrate [3]
23/17 86/20 112/17
demonstrated [2]
30/7 135/7
department [6] 34/4
35/3 35/4 35/6 84/23
113/18
depend [1] 101/1
depending [2] 58/4
102/10
deputy [2] 64/2 66/25
describe [5] 5/11
12/11 19/6 97/19
133/25
described [10] 2/18
14/23 15/20 19/2
28/10 35/8 40/17 41/9
46/6 141/9
description [2] 94/24
94/25
desire [4] 86/20
134/21 135/10 142/23}
desires [1] 28/11
despite [2] 88/6
142/23
detail [8] 14/5 101/21
101/25 102/10 102/16)
102/18 116/24 131/19)
detailed [2] 90/4
108/18
details [2] 49/18
49/21
determination [1]
87/10
determine [4] 12/12
40/3 40/25 116/6
determined [1] 75/19
determining [1]
101/21
developed [1] 16/24
developing [1]
130/14
developments [1]
62/16
devising [1] 15/13
devolved [1] 66/8
diary [1] 52/10
did [69] 9/22 10/10
10/14 10/25 31/23
32/18 33/19 38/18
42/13 42/14 42/15
42/21 42/25 43/2 43/9
43/11 44/9 46/18
52/12 55/8 55/16
58/16 66/25 72/18
73/8 73/24 77/11
87/11 87/16 95/1 95/8}
95/10 96/1 98/25
100/20 101/21 102/1
102/25 103/25 106/9
107/22 108/8 108/19
108/24 110/14 122/2
122/2 122/12 122/20
127/16 130/3 134/5
134/5 134/24 135/24
135/25 136/14 136/19}
136/25 137/2 140/4
141/10 142/14 142/17)
145/4 145/20 145/23
146/14 146/15
didn't [16] 73/2 73/4
73/6 95/22 96/5 96/14
96/16 99/9 110/7
110/10 118/13 121/2
122/23 133/13 140/12)
141/12
difference [1] 65/16
differences [3] 65/7
100/4 100/9
different [21] 11/17
12/16 17/10 21/13
21/16 23/4 28/24 31/7I
32/11 32/12 45/2 45/7I
46/11 77/10 88/25
89/3 98/4 98/5 115/11
132/17 142/18
differing [1] 62/7
difficult [16] 10/11
(44) correct... - difficult
D
difficult... [15] 10/14
17/13 17/18 18/20
22/3 23/7 25/7 38/22
72/23 72/24 87/23
88/10 110/16 110/25
121/16
difficulties [3] 18/5
145/17 147/9
difficulty [1] 11/20
diminished [1] 82/2
direct [3] 84/6 95/4
96/25
directed [2] 1/19
56/1
direction [3] 33/20
136/23 142/25
directly [4] 22/20
95/7 103/9 131/4
director [30] 19/18
35/20 36/15 36/16
37/12 37/23 44/3 45/5
50/20 52/3 55/21 58/2
58/9 64/1 71/11 71/12
73/9 73/13 73/15 77/5)
77/10 77/12 77/24
79/11 79/15 79/16
84/2 86/9 126/22
127/1
directors [41] 21/4
24/6 25/9 25/18 26/16
27/9 27/24 28/2 28/20
28/20 28/22 29/10
30/7 30/25 31/21
38/25 72/9 74/11
74/13 74/14 74/15
74/25 76/24 77/17
79/11 79/13 86/4
86/15 86/23 96/25
102/15 104/3 108/12
108/22 112/16 113/6
125/18 128/16 130/17)
136/18 139/3
directors’ [5] 28/19
44/25 45/4 75/2 114/6)
disagree [1] 23/18
discernible [1] 25/8
disclosed [6] 6/3 6/5
6/8 49/20 51/22 55/17
disclosure [2] 49/9
116/21
disclosures [2]
32/11 116/16
discrepancies [4]
32/13 40/15 44/22
44/23
discrepancy [1]
41/10
discretion [1] 118/15
discuss [10] 39/13
40/4 40/7 41/24 66/17
68/2 87/8 87/12 127/3
127/4
discussed [10] 11/25
32/14 38/1 47/7 56/10)
86/25 89/15 89/17
118/12 124/2
discussion [8] 34/4
49/13 49/18 51/19
56/4 67/3 117/4 117/5)
discussions [2]
107/22 121/9
dispute [3] 62/14
65/10 103/15
disrupted [1] 89/12
distress [1] 43/6
diversity [6] 25/13
25/15 25/17 25/22
25/25 26/22
diverts [1] 129/25
division [3] 75/15
75/20 129/14
do [110] 2/9 2/11
2/13 2/14 2/21 2/23
3/2 3/8 3/10 3/15 3/16
3/22 3/23 4/1 4/2 4/10
4112 4/19 4/23 4/24
5/3 5/5 8/24 10/12
11/4 11/11 13/19 14/3
14/11 14/14 14/16
17/16 18/25 21/15
21/22 22/24 23/13
23/17 24/10 24/17
25/15 26/23 27/22
29/4 30/4 30/19 31/4
33/11 36/25 37/11
43/3 45/1 45/15 46/25)
47/4 48/21 51/1 52/6
53/25 55/13 61/5
61/15 61/23 63/6
63/12 64/25 66/4 73/8)
76/19 77/7 78/21 80/5)
81/4 81/14 83/8 83/20
84/3 84/6 85/9 88/12
88/21 90/12 90/12
90/13 97/4 100/5
100/19 101/8 105/6
107/11 109/5 110/19
110/24 119/24 121/1
121/22 123/11 125/20)
129/9 129/22 132/16
132/24 132/25 132/25)
133/8 139/12 139/19
139/23 140/11 144/2
document [11] 12/15
42/8 99/20 100/12
101/13 103/5 104/5
108/7 114/1 118/7
141/5
documents [5] 49/11
49/20 71/7 72/9
137/11
does [16] 12/6 14/20
14/22 15/1 23/6 23/17
24/19 31/16 38/10
38/13 41/8 67/18 73/2
80/5 117/5 146/6
doesn't [6] 14/9 15/2
28/7 29/2 146/6
146/10
doing [1] 35/3
don't [45] 9/6 14/21
21/25 23/11 23/21
33/15 34/16 37/14
39/9 43/2 55/24 61/2
61/25 63/16 65/4
66/21 67/2 67/14
70/11 72/24 72/25
76/21 80/10 82/9
85/23 87/13 87/15
89/23 103/18 104/2
110/4 111/2 111/24
117/9 117/18 119/16
133/1 137/17 145/25
146/4 146/17
done [9] 42/5 68/16
83/8 95/5 106/10
109/1 109/5 110/3
111/2
down [40] 14/17 17/6
17/7 35/16 35/22
39/22 40/23 52/13
53/16 56/11 65/5
70/14 73/19 83/11
83/19 101/13 101/20
102/20 102/21 103/4
104/5 106/17 107/25
108/7 114/7 114/24
118/7 119/7 126/6
129/4 130/6 130/21
134/1 134/9 134/16
134/20 136/16 138/12
139/17 141/5
downs [1] 88/11
draft [15] 14/18 15/5
15/9 49/15 57/23
57/24 61/10 67/7 67/8
103/8 125/10 125/14
126/3 126/3 126/25
drafted [6] 56/17
58/15 65/17 97/16
98/8 118/3
drafting [2] 137/8
137/14
drafts [1] 118/2
draw [41] 60/15
drawing [1] 64/18
drawn [1] 75/3
drive [2] 20/23
134/22
driven [2] 22/23 23/1
driving [3] 22/17
111/19 135/11
due [10] 24/2 24/23
24/25 25/8 53/20 62/7
62/15 70/24 79/23
97/22
duly [1] 78/2
during [8] 1/20 37/25
43/24 44/14 44/17
14/22 16/1 19/3 19/24
101/19 131/9 133/15
duties [3] 28/19
28/21 31/1
dying [1] 146/23
E
each [9] 11/17 36/18
74/10 97/23 97/25
98/1 104/16 126/17
140/16
earlier [7] 22/7 24/6
70/20 110/10 117/21
131/13 145/2
early [7] 7/7 7/16
36/12 36/25 90/13
90/15 136/15
ease [1] 10/19
East [1] 7/18
easy [2] 27/2 136/2
education [1] 89/12
educational [1] 89/13)
effect [6] 53/8 58/24
62/15 64/19 68/10
84/18
effective [4] 20/24
83/22 83/25 128/2
effectively [2] 34/10
100/12
effectiveness [4]
81/11 126/12 126/17
131/12
effort [1] 27/10
efforts [1] 11/18
either [5] 41/18 63/24]
74/19 81/23 141/10
elaborate [2] 10/13
82/22
Elliot [22] 32/16 34/1
34/5 36/6 37/6 37/9
39/13 39/15 41/22
41/23 42/16 44/20
44/24 45/8 45/19 46/4
46/18 46/22 47/6
138/3 141/13 142/12
else [1] 121/7
elsewhere [3] 59/11
81/15 140/11
email [41] 35/14
35/17 35/24 37/15
39/10 41/15 46/16
46/17 46/20 64/16
75/24 77/5 99/22
99/24 99/25 100/22
101/2 101/5 101/7
103/7 103/9 104/1
105/11 106/5 106/18
119/7 119/15 120/4
121/17 121/24 123/6
123/11 124/19 124/23
124/23 125/4 125/5
125/22 125/23 138/14}
138/15
emailed [2] 76/13
78/7
emails [1] 100/17
embarking [1] 86/2
emerge [1] 131/21
emerged [2] 22/10
22/15
emergency [1] 98/15
emoluments [2]
44/25 45/4
employed [4] 6/18
92/23 93/16 93/23
employee [3] 18/1
23/5 108/16
employees [9] 20/16
20/25 21/9 22/2 22/6
23/24 30/25 31/6
81/16
employment [2] 1/21
79/10
empower [1] 84/10
empowering [1]
83/10
enabled [1] 114/18
enables [1] 66/2
enabling [1] 83/22
enact [1] 87/25
end [7] 5/6 45/22
52/21 54/25 73/20
107/8 134/15
ended [1] 10/20
enforcement [16]
55/19 56/7 56/14
56/20 57/24 58/2 59/9I
62/17 63/25 64/9
65/15 65/24 66/2 66/3
66/6 66/11
engage [3] 40/11
46/18 133/1
engaged [3] 36/16
46/22 100/11
Engagement [1] 22/5)
engaging [1] 37/9
enhanced [3] 61/12
84/15 89/16
enhancement [1]
85/19
enough [1] 109/3
ensure [7] 15/23
38/23 43/21 78/22
88/5 100/11 100/24
ensuring [1] 43/25
entailed [1] 126/14
entirely [3] 19/25
69/5 134/13
entitled [1] 62/3
entrants [1] 10/2
entrepreneur [1]
45/9
environment [5] 59/8
59/11 65/8 65/9
146/22
envisage [1] 70/5
envisaged [1] 64/18
episode [1] 80/5
equally [2] 38/24
(45) difficult... - equally
E
equally... [1] 141/2
equip [1] 132/6
Equipment [1] 36/10
equivalent [1] 85/10
Er [4] 117/11
Ernst [1] 5/22
err [1] 13/11
errors [3] 18/16
62/10 62/24
especially [1] 44/5
essence [1] 58/6
essentially [4] 64/20
68/25 79/22 140/20
established [2] 58/25]
59/1
establishment [3]
19/10 19/15 62/25
estate [3] 7/8 7/8
713
estimated [1] 38/13
ethnic [1] 25/21
ethos [1] 19/13
Europe [1] 7/18
even [2] 42/1 72/23
evening [1] 105/22
event [1] 77/25
events [2] 44/5 70/19
ever [2] 54/1 119/17
every [1] 126/18
everyone [4] 29/14
73/4 119/24 147/23
everything [2] 14/1
112/14
evidence [46] 1/25
18/8 21/3 23/23 26/1
26/8 38/3 39/6 43/5
43/9 46/3 48/23 49/4
49/10 49/12 50/6 50/9
50/12 50/17 51/23
54/6 57/4 57/5 58/24
60/11 60/13 62/4 63/9
63/25 64/15 64/19
65/21 66/5 67/19
85/20 88/1 90/9 92/13
114/16 115/14 116/13}
116/20 132/2 141/6
141/7 147/18
evidential [2] 64/17
69/3
exacerbate [1]
138/21
exacerbated [1]
22/21
exactly [2] 21/15
103/18
examine [1] 6/21
examining [1] 1/24
example [18] 12/24
18/4 24/2 47/13 54/13
68/13 79/5 89/10
102/2 103/15 103/21
120/13 124/4 124/5
124/14 125/9 132/22
143/1
examples [1] 136/5
excerpt [2] 116/8
116/9
excess [2] 129/7
129/19
excessive [2] 59/23
70/8
exchange [1] 125/13
excluded [1] 111/4
executive [79] 5/7
5/12 5/16 11/7 12/20
12/25 14/9 15/10
16/20 17/21 18/21
18/24 19/19 21/4 24/6
24/10 25/6 26/17
26/20 27/3 27/9 28/6
28/8 28/20 30/1 30/7
30/9 30/15 31/21
35/20 36/14 38/25
53/21 55/7 55/11 56/5)
56/11 57/11 57/21
66/14 66/22 67/10
67/11 71/12 77/5 77/9)
77/12 79/15 79/16
83/12 84/1 84/5 85/8
85/12 85/14 85/15
86/9 86/23 87/1 87/5
87/19 88/4 88/25
94/18 96/7 98/9 98/24
104/4 108/12 112/7
113/24 128/16 128/22)
130/17 133/7 136/18
138/2 138/8 139/3
Executive's [1] 97/23
executives [10]
14/25 87/21 88/7
88/19 109/20 127/12
132/14 138/1 138/5
138/6
exercise [3] 13/7
14/15 53/7
exhibit [1] 3/11
exist [1] 24/12
existed [1] 65/8
existence [1] 56/17
existing [7] 68/23
68/24 75/3 78/16 80/2
123/4 135/18
exists [2] 65/18
142/7
exonerate [2] 23/14
23/19
expect [4] 85/16
99/17 101/8 125/17
expectation [1] 52/9
expectations [2]
63/17 114/19
expected [4] 97/11
100/16 108/17 108/22)
expediency [1] 94/16
experience [17] 31/8
44/12 45/1 45/20
65/19 66/10 75/12
84/2 85/7 86/1 86/4
107/15 111/13 133/19}
135/15 139/12 140/15
experienced [4]
18/12 58/16 58/20
131/2
experiences [3]
87/12 88/19 89/2
expert [1] 30/22
expertise [2] 30/8
75/7
Experts [1] 102/8
explain [40] 8/16
39/24 40/12 49/23
73/13 73/18 74/24
96/17 96/21 97/15
101/14 102/13 104/6
104/9 105/6 110/15
111/8 112/9 112/21
113/2 117/8 117/12
118/23 126/14 127/24
128/6 128/23 130/8
133/16 134/19 135/13
135/21 137/3 138/16
138/24 139/19 139/21
140/5 140/24 141/19
explained [12] 9/16
25/6 71/14 75/14
76/12 125/16 136/1
136/8 140/1 141/7
142/24 146/1
explaining [4] 41/24
113/4 139/8 139/18
explains [3] 66/13
94/21 114/2
explicitly [1] 124/2
explore [2] 33/4
73/11
express [1] 57/10
expressed [4] 24/5
26/2 26/9 75/9
expressing [1] 54/8
extend [1] 124/16
extended [2] 21/1
43/23
extent [3] 37/24
94/16 128/22
external [17] 22/23
23/1 23/8 23/13 75/8
75/10 75/16 75/21
76/16 78/11 107/20
109/8 109/9 109/13
127/8 127/13 127/15
externally [6] 75/5
75/6 77/2 126/18
127/6 131/12
extract [2] 54/22 62/2!
extracting [1] 18/6
extremely [1] 116/4
F
facilitated [4] 126/18
126/21 127/6 131/13
facilitator [1] 127/15
facing [2] 10/16
72/19
fact [15] 5/15 5/24
6/4 44/9 55/3 115/12
121/17 122/2 127/19
130/10 134/12 138/1
140/1 141/24 145/5
factor [2] 103/2
139/5
factors [4] 20/4 20/8
20/9 62/19
failings [1] 81/16
failure [1] 44/20
fair [17] 19/22 19/23
19/24 20/3 27/19
27/21 28/13 34/12
45/13 45/14 59/20
66/15 67/25 72/4
94/24 94/25 111/1
fairly [2] 104/25
113/4
familiar [3] 23/10
23/11 142/2
families [1] 89/11
far [8] 35/1 49/24
52/17 69/18 100/14
112/15 129/18 129/18}
fault [1] 62/9
fear [10] 59/13 59/14
81/3 81/18 82/6 83/9
84/7 84/23 84/23 85/1
February [13] 2/8
2/19 35/15 35/18
35/24 58/18 92/23
93/1 94/1 115/9
115/20 118/18 142/3
February 2022 [1]
58/18
fed [1] 76/24
Federal [1] 6/25
feed [2] 15/11 87/20
feedback [3] 116/15
127/14 127/15
feel [3] 9/6 108/14
140/17
feeling [1] 142/17
feet [2] 10/21 140/20
fell [1] 137/7
felt [3] 78/13 102/11
141/23
female [3] 25/18
26/16 26/18
few [12] 23/2 55/17
71/21 73/1 79/19
80/24 88/12 95/19
106/4 121/14 123/9
140/18
fifth [1] 4/6
figure [2] 38/13
38/17
file [1] 64/8
final [10] 21/2 22/24
38/6 68/2 70/18 92/2
98/11 126/3 126/3
133/14
finally [7] 4/16 6/1
20/20 86/11 117/1
125/22 143/16
financial [7] 12/25
68/9 97/24 104/15
114/5 129/3 143/24
find [3] 87/22 125/7
147/18
findings [3] 126/11
128/25 132/23
fine [5] 35/7 35/12
47/23 90/16 144/15
finish [1] 114/19
finite [1] 29/12
firm [2] 113/22 116/5
firms [2] 107/20
109/8
first [26] 1/5 1/14
2/19 12/2 14/17 17/11
20/9 31/23 32/20
33/11 48/21 50/1
51/25 54/7 55/16 60/9I
62/19 62/21 65/17
70/21 73/18 91/15
101/2 115/15 136/12
144/10
firstly [5] 5/3 37/21
49/12 80/25 82/5
five [5] 1/14 17/7
90/4 95/14 120/23
fixed [1] 20/16
fixed-term [1] 20/16
flagged [1] 138/18
flat [1] 29/20
flexible [1] 132/20
floating [1] 29/18
flowed [1] 129/1
Foat [13] 33/9 33/12
33/18 35/9 35/9 35/18
35/25 39/11 42/10
47/1 47/4 47/14 47/16
focus [6] 13/16 13/22
15/21 112/15 131/24
133/17
focused [5] 1/23
15/24 59/7 65/22
114/21
focusing [1] 130/2
follow [7] 15/1 31/16
38/13 69/5 73/2 78/13
127/16
followed [7] 64/11
78/15 78/22 100/25
101/4 101/9 134/17
following [20] 7/3
37/6 39/15 42/11
46/11 55/4 62/16 74/8)
77/14 79/23 105/20
111/6 121/22 123/22
123/24 123/25 133/25)
134/8 134/20 139/22
follows [2] 51/19
(46) equally... - follows
F
follows... [1] 114/13
force [2] 70/1 135/11
forces [1] 60/12
forget [1] 47/3
Forgive [7] 10/13
11/20 35/21 52/20
57/17 73/22 74/14
forgotten [1] 46/16
form [4] 41/3 44/25
45/4 45/7
formal [12] 9/22 34/2
35/2 38/19 78/24 79/1
101/10 121/10 122/3
122/14 126/2 127/25
formalities [1] 1/25
format [1] 64/17
formed [4] 58/20
62/11 65/9 68/16
former [3] 26/1 26/8
80/22
formerly [1] 8/13
formulate [1] 133/5
forum [4] 30/13 79/9
87/5 136/22
forums [5] 26/22
81/25 82/3 82/13
82/13
forward [12] 18/22
40/8 66/14 91/5 97/16)
97/19 97/21 98/18
99/6 99/8 127/17
143/22
found [4] 45/19 62/12!
108/25 135/22
four [3] 20/20 120/22
146/25
fourth [1] 3/20
framework [2]
117/22 128/8
free [1] 83/8
Freedom [1] 111/20
Freehills [2] 107/3
109/15
freely [1] 41/18
frequency [2] 105/6
107/18
frequent [1] 20/12
frequently [1] 104/10
Friday [1] 1/1
friend [1] 42/1
front [6] 2/22 3/9
3/22 4/18 46/17 91/8
fulfil [2] 14/10 97/11
fulfilled [1] 94/22
fulfilling [1] 31/1
full [12] 1/9 27/5 38/8
88/14 91/2 95/14
100/7 108/13 108/14
109/20 139/12 141/20
fuller [1] 112/9
fully [4] 113/12 132/3
134/12 146/22
function [7] 14/10
17/19 40/12 40/18
41/2 58/17 97/3
functions [1] 96/23
funding [5] 89/18
105/4 105/14 112/1
130/22
funds [1] 29/12
further [22] 37/17
39/23 43/22 46/2
53/17 54/18 66/1
67/12 69/12 70/3
70/11 80/15 96/14
99/16 101/8 103/22
106/2 115/9 117/6
124/25 125/11 125/15)
future [5] 65/9 81/19
122/1 131/23 145/23
gap [1] 94/17
gaps [1] 97/10
gave [6] 39/2 46/3
72/13 76/5 88/1 141/6
GE [1] 120/1
gender [4] 25/17
25/21 26/21 26/21
general [19] 8/22
8/24 9/5 10/1 27/6
32/22 32/25 33/8
33/12 55/23 67/3
82/23 85/13 85/17
94/2 94/5 100/22
112/10 128/2
generally [7] 11/7
13/10 25/19 54/11
61/14 117/25 129/7
get [17] 10/11 14/10
16/2 16/4 28/18 34/25)
41/9 41/10 68/6 75/2
103/16 109/10 109/11
121/13 136/2 140/17
140/20
gets [1] 68/15
getting [2] 81/18 85/1
give [9] 1/9 38/18
64/3 73/3 75/20 82/10
90/9 145/23 147/18
given [29] 1/18 15/10
22/1 24/10 36/24
43/23 44/5 45/18
57/13 60/9 66/7 69/22
72/15 77/2 79/12
79/13 79/20 85/2
96/18 106/21 108/12
108/24 112/14 113/7
123/11 131/8 137/24
139/24 140/10
giving [5] 46/24
57/10 74/2 81/10
109/3
gleaned [1] 17/20
GLO [3] 100/10
123/17 133/18
go [40] 1/25 11/13
12/12 14/14 14/20
17/25 29/8 35/21
39/17 44/4 46/15
58/22 62/18 65/5 73/4
81/6 81/22 83/16
85/25 86/16 90/12
91/15 97/22 100/1
104/9 107/7 107/25
110/15 116/9 118/23
119/12 120/3 124/19
125/4 126/4 128/23
131/14 138/12 138/15}
139/7
goes [9] 15/1 15/9
37/15 39/10 41/15
58/12 60/3 123/15
124/1
going [30] 19/4 34/7
39/24 49/21 63/19
72/16 76/2 76/23
90/23 100/8 103/1
103/16 105/7 106/14
107/5 107/5 108/5
108/9 110/5 114/7
116/2 121/10 122/21
123/2 124/17 124/17
132/22 138/4 140/14
143/22
gone [2] 42/20 43/13
good [10] 1/3 10/12
48/2 71/21 80/21
83/21 90/21 110/23
124/5 139/23
got [8] 4/18 16/2
33/24 46/20 122/14
123/9 130/20 139/1
govern [1] 132/9
governance [53]
7/21 8/1 8/1 8/18
13/15 14/4 24/17
27/20 30/20 57/8 58/1
59/16 59/23 61/13
61/16 61/21 61/22
66/3 73/16 78/14 80/6
81/11 93/10 93/13
93/17 99/4 109/21
110/17 113/23 116/3
117/22 120/19 121/10}
122/14 126/7 126/8
126/9 126/20 127/25
128/8 128/14 130/8
131/9 131/18 133/3
133/8 138/17 138/18
139/1 139/20 139/21
140/1 140/3
governing [2] 48/22
56/7
Government [5] 84/6
84/18 84/24 130/23
130/23
grasp [1] 34/15
grateful [2] 89/24
147/19
Gray [1] 55/22
great [3] 90/7 145/22
146/1
greater [7] 10/19
24/19 25/25 27/15
82/11 82/14 124/10
grips [1] 10/11
grounded [1] 132/1
group [27] 6/2 15/10
16/17 17/21 19/11
21/11 26/17 26/20
27/4 52/25 55/7 55/11
55/23 56/5 56/13
66/15 66/17 66/22
67/4 96/3 96/6 98/9
112/6 112/15 134/13
135/21 143/14
groups [2] 12/13
31/7
guess [4] 12/23 16/1
33/15 76/21
guidance [1] 101/24
guilt [1] 21/18
guilty [2] 21/6 142/7
H
had [125] 6/4 9/16
16/11 20/10 24/20
26/15 26/18 28/1
29/10 32/14 32/15
32/19 32/23 33/13
34/8 35/3 36/24 37/4
37/5 37/5 38/10 38/14I
44/11 45/2 45/2 45/19}
46/20 46/22 48/14
51/18 52/1 52/16
52/18 52/20 52/23
53/7 58/17 58/25 67/3
67/4 67/6 67/11 71/6
71114 71/19 7519
75/11 76/15 76/19
77/10 77/16 77/23
78/8 78/14 78/19 79/2
79/22 80/12 85/9 87/6
88/12 89/4 94/18 95/3
95/5 95/12 95/18 97/1
98/18 99/3 99/5 99/12
100/12 101/2 101/7
101/20 101/23 102/20
102/21 103/4 107/13
108/12 109/19 111/2
114/13 112/14 112/14
112/22 113/3 113/6
115/2 116/17 116/21
4118/2 118/11 118/14
119/4 120/21 120/24
121/24 122/18 128/3
128/21 128/22 129/9
129/13 129/14 130/13
133/10 134/13 134/17
135/19 136/8 136/9
136/9 137/10 138/1
138/6 138/8 139/25
140/14 140/20 143/8
145/1 145/21
hadn't [11] 44/24
53/13 67/9 79/3 79/6
79/7 79/8 79/9 136/9
141/16 143/7
halfway [3] 106/17
114/24 119/7
halt [1] 78/10
handed [10] 45/16
84/19 101/20 102/20
102/21 103/4 130/21
134/9 134/16 134/20
handing [1] 134/1
handle [1] 109/1
handling [1] 45/16
handover [7] 9/17
9/19 88/9 88/13 88/13}
145/1 145/1
happen [1] 122/2
happened [5] 33/3
87/17 110/22 112/14
133/24
happening [3] 15/6
34/1 70/5
happy [3] 15/15
71/25 72/2
harder [2] 10/12
138/5
harnessing [1] 30/11
has [47] 6/3 6/8 18/8
18/23 18/25 21/3 23/3}
23/5 23/22 24/10
24/22 27/14 36/12
36/16 36/19 36/21
41/18 43/5 49/20
56/18 60/4 60/9 60/21
67/15 68/10 68/14
68/16 68/21 69/2
69/23 73/4 83/12 85/7I
85/7 87/19 88/1 88/10
89/1 89/15 92/16
106/23 107/9 116/4
116/4 120/11 121/18
144/14
have [178]
haven't [1] 136/11
having [22] 16/5
20/24 26/21 28/23
30/15 83/20 85/3
85/20 85/23 85/25
92/1 95/6 110/6
114/20 128/12 130/9
130/15 131/3 141/13
144/15 146/7 146/20
he [42] 34/23 36/15
36/16 41/18 41/25
42/2 42/18 42/18
42/19 45/2 45/19 46/3
46/10 46/11 54/5
72/13 74/3 74/20
74/21 77/22 78/10
78/21 87/9 88/1 88/3
94/18 99/25 100/2
101/7 103/11 104/1
(47) follows... - he
H
he... [11] 105/17
106/5 120/1 123/8
123/15 124/1 124/13
124/16 125/24 136/8
141/7
he'd [3] 71/2 71/3
87/8
he's [4] 123/12
head [6] 68/6 93/1
93/25 94/22 96/23
97/12
header [1] 114/25
heading [3] 51/12
56/3 145/22
health [1] 143/8
hear [4] 1/3 48/2
90/21 90/23
heard [4] 18/8 21/3
23/22 43/5
hearing [2] 11/21
148/2
heavy [1] 45/16
held [13] 21/1 23/15
36/6 59/14 74/16
74/19 81/4 87/1 87/8
93/16 94/6 115/9
138/1
help [4] 120/20
130/11 137/4 142/21
helpful [6] 41/16 85/8
97/4 116/24 129/24
142/21
helping [2] 16/5
89/11
helps [1] 10/18
Henry [2] 36/2 71/23
Henry's [1] 71/20
her [4] 145/9 145/23
145/23 146/3
Herbert [2] 107/2
109/15
here [9] 20/15 21/7
22/1 39/24 44/18 47/7
60/20 61/24 81/10
Hi [1] 36/2
high [10] 6/25 22/14
25/9 59/7 59/10 88/6
120/21 128/15 137/25
147/2
high-risk [1] 59/10
highlighted [2] 18/2
81/15
highly [4] 87/16
him [9] 34/11 34/21
42/15 43/7 73/3 74/19)
101/8 113/3 142/8
himself [3] 46/8
47/16 134/10
hindsight [3] 43/20
97/4 133/23
his [22] 26/1 26/2
26/7 32/6 33/20 33/22
37/3 37/12 37/22 42/7
45/1 45/12 51/22 54/4
73/19 73/20 74/3
74/22 87/9 106/5
1414/7 141/8
historic [2] 24/2 62/7
historical [5] 5/8
69/22 107/3 107/20
131/22
history [2] 57/13
67/23
hm [1] 4/8
HNG [1] 62/22
HNG-A [1] 62/22
hoc [1] 61/2
HODGE [7] 1/8 47/19
68/4 70/16 81/1 90/12
149/3
hold [4] 23/24
home [1] 20/11
honest [7] 19/3 21/20
45/18 62/1 82/9 89/21
139/9
honesty [1] 21/19
hope [3] 36/3 99/19
124/2
Horizon [36] 16/9
16/12 16/20 16/25
17/11 17/12 17/16
17/22 18/3 18/7 23/15
38/15 38/21 39/7
60/13 60/15 62/8 62/9
62/11 62/14 62/22
63/2 63/13 63/23
64/10 65/1 67/13
67/19 67/24 96/1
103/13 105/15 108/41
124/7 124/9 134/16
Horizon's [1] 67/25
Horizon-based [1]
60/13
hours [2] 105/13
129/19
how [42] 11/18 28/3
29/12 38/17 39/21
39/24 42/15 46/6 49/4
59/8 84/12 84/12
87/19 88/23 92/14
95/1 95/11 102/1
102/2 103/13 104/15
105/21 107/14 115/12)
116/13 117/6 122/12
129/9 129/22 130/23
131/9 132/5 132/16
132/23 132/24 132/25)
132/25 133/11 134/5
135/19 135/22 140/17,
Howe [1] 80/23
however [6] 37/5
46/18 65/16 80/11
106/13 117/4
HSS [2] 105/14
105/14
huge [1] 143/22
I
l agree [1] 61/3
Lalso [3] 102/19
110/6 110/23
lam [7] 9/5 13/7 69/6
70/6 92/14 120/17
147/19
land [4] 121/25
l apologise [1] 74/1
I appear [1] 80/21
I appreciate [1]
34/16
lask [7] 2/12 2/24
3/12 4/20 9/9 92/1
92/19
lattach [1] 105/18
l attended [1] 87/15
I became [1] 97/1
I believe [6] 133/20
134/11 135/12 140/4
140/11 140/13
Icame [1] 142/16
I can [5] 1/4 39/9
70/11 82/10 95/25
I can't [4] 34/15 70/5
73/5 106/12
I certainly [1] 108/11
I completely [1]
118/10
I could [1] 104/2
I couldn't [1] 110/24
I deduced [1] 67/9
I did [7] 33/19 43/2
43/11 87/16 95/10
135/25 137/2
I didn't [8] 73/4 73/6
96/5 96/16 110/7
110/10 122/23 133/13}
Ido [13] 2/11 2/14
2/23 3/10 3/16 3/23
412 4/12 4/19 4/24 5/5
88/21 140/11
I don't [34] 9/6 14/21
14/22 19/3 23/11
23/21 33/15 37/14
39/9 43/2 61/2 63/16
65/4 66/21 67/2 67/14
70/11 72/24 76/21
82/9 85/23 87/13
87/15 89/23 103/18
104/2 110/4 111/2
111/24 119/16 133/1
145/25 146/4 146/17
I felt [1] 141/23
I follow [1] 69/5
I generally [1] 13/10
I got [1] 46/20
I guess [4] 12/23
16/1 33/15 76/21
I had [5] 32/23 67/6
71/19 95/3 99/5
Ihave [11] 17/9 18/1
68/2 80/24 82/4 87/4
87/4 89/22 119/22
142/5 144/9
I hope [2] 36/3 124/2
limagine [2] 76/24
88/9
I joined [2] 18/17
48/17
I just [5] 33/23 46/4
69/19 144/10 145/9
I knew [1] 67/14
I left [3] 128/1 132/12
143/19
I mean [17] 10/10
18/19 18/20 27/5 30/6}
38/17 38/22 45/18
60/25 69/21 70/5
70/11 72/21 76/21
80/10 82/8 87/13
I mentioned [3] 30/6
76/22 122/25
I might [1] 70/7
I moved [2] 95/6 97/2
Inot [4] 1114/2
I prepare [1] 14/18
I probably [2] 110/9
146/16
I produced [1]
137/13
I propose [1] 2/5
I provided [1] 101/23
I recall [2] 135/5
135/14
l received [1] 10/10
I recognise [1] 55/24
I reflected [1] 133/10
l represent [1]
144/22
I right [2] 46/15 68/19)
I said [1] 73/24
I say [5] 15/3 73/4
82/15 88/24 122/7
Isend [1] 15/14
I should [1] 55/24
I started [1] 95/16
I stress [1] 70/9
I suppose [5] 9/4
26/15 27/3 29/7 52/24,
I suspect [1] 108/14
I think [150]
I thought [5] 112/14
112/17 122/23 137/17}
143/20
l understand [13]
4/25 9/11 17/23 18/13
34/7 36/4 44/14 44/19)
48/16 50/20 79/17
84/17 91/12
l understood [1]
79/13
I want [5] 6/21 86/11
113/11 133/14 144/25}
I wanted [2] 46/25
99/7
I was [17] 28/18 32/7
32/9 32/12 32/16 67/6
72/16 95/6 96/6 96/22)
97/11 100/18 110/4
120/22 121/21 132/15)
137/23
I wasn't [1] 122/3
I went [1] 73/9
I were [2] 99/6
109/22
I will [3] 119/23 146/1
146/17
I wonder [3] 20/6
35/13 45/24
I would [24] 14/14
39/11 68/5 69/1 92/14
98/19 99/19 101/8
101/25 104/3 107/14
107/17 122/4 124/12
125/17 125/20 126/21
126/24 130/5 130/13
145/25
I wouldn't [2] 42/19
102/6
I'd [14] 9/14 16/8
21/2 22/9 25/2 31/19
48/5 57/7 63/4 68/2
73/11 95/17 123/20
146/12
[7] 11/22 12/20
33/25 46/5 89/22
124/22 144/13
I'm [25] 19/4 23/11
30/22 33/23 33/23
34/25 36/24 38/17
45/18 46/24 47/7 47/8)
47/10 61/24 62/1
63/11 69/18 89/16
89/21 89/23 107/2
125/25 128/14 139/10)
140/22
I've [14] 33/24 46/16
61/19 80/15 83/2 83/3
83/5 113/5 119/16
123/9 138/17 142/19
142/21 146/23
ideally [2] 97/7 97/8
identified [3] 62/10
100/3 100/14
identifies [1] 62/19
identify [6] 13/14
20/4 20/9 25/7 39/17
80/1
if [72] 9/11 10/14
10/17 11/16 12/6
12/23 13/24 15/19
17/6 20/6 22/13 29/7
32/23 35/13 35/15
39/12 39/21 40/21
40/25 41/18 41/22
42/2 42/8 45/4 45/24
46/3 46/15 47/21
51/10 51/22 54/5
54/10 56/11 61/2 61/4
61/25 65/5 65/5 69/21
(48) he... - if
if... [33] 75/6 80/11
80/15 83/5 85/9 87/15)
89/22 91/15 99/16
100/1 100/18 106/2
106/16 107/25 113/25)
114/23 116/8 119/12
120/3 120/5 121/12
124/19 125/4 125/22
131/14 138/12 138/14}
138/20 139/11 140/6
141/16 143/16 144/10
ignored [1] 142/9
illumination [1]
32/24
image [1] 111/16
imagine [2] 76/24
88/9
immediate [1] 94/17
impact [4] 20/10
109/17 120/25 133/12)
impacted [1] 129/23
impacting [1] 22/20
impair [1] 139/5
impeded [1] 20/5
imperative [1] 86/1
implemented [2]
15/19 59/4
importance [6] 13/8
82/1 82/12 82/14
82/15 113/5
important [9] 12/3
43/20 71/24 85/5
106/22 108/9 112/18
115/6 129/16
importantly [1] 65/20
imposed [1] 146/4
impression [1] 76/20
improve [3] 11/4
25/22 29/14
improved [4] 25/16
61/13 61/16 143/7
Improvement [1]
19/10
improving [1] 11/15
inactions [1] 92/15
inadequate [3]
117/23 118/11 125/14}
Incentive [2] 113/14
119/14
incidents [2] 23/3
106/12
include [3] 19/10
96/1 127/10
included [6] 64/12
64/14 93/18 99/5
114/8 120/1
includes [1] 3/11
including [5] 27/15
28/24 60/6 71/11
143/13
inclusion [3] 13/10
27/10 49/23
incoming [1] 75/3
incorporating [1]
30/12
increase [1] 83/18
increased [3] 83/14
104/19 105/6
increases [1] 111/19
incredible [1] 28/2
independence [5]
9/7 85/16 139/10
140/5 140/22
independent [18]
8/17 8/25 44/3 71/10
73/9 73/13 73/14
77/24 79/11 85/18
86/8 113/17 126/22
127/1 138/20 138/23
139/3 139/4
index [1] 143/8
indicated [1] 50/22
indication [1] 74/2
indicative [2] 120/18
125/13
individual [6] 74/25
77/15 100/9 102/11
112/16 113/6
individuals [6] 20/11
64/5 82/3 92/18 94/19
106/4
induction [23] 9/15
9/23 9/24 10/9 11/2
45/11 88/14 91/17
95/23 96/5 96/14
96/18 97/5 137/4
137/5 137/6 137/8
139/13 141/14 141/17)
145/8 145/9 145/24
ineffective [1] 128/6
inevitable [1] 108/24
inflight [1] 107/22
influence [2] 80/8
136/23
informal [3] 72/7
101/11 101/12
information [37]
13/25 16/13 17/16
48/7 56/7 56/19 56/24
57/11 58/2 58/4 58/5
60/14 60/23 62/6
63/23 64/9 64/14
64/16 65/15 66/6
69/10 69/16 70/10
87/18 97/24 102/24
103/1 107/19 108/8
108/22 111/20 112/19)
114/16 118/13 118/16)
124/15 140/8
inhouse [4] 58/3
58/10 64/2 85/15
initial [2] 125/14
141/17
initially [7] 13/9 15/4
20/11 26/7 46/22
110/4 127/
initiated [2] 72/2
113/8
initiation [1] 76/5
ives [6] 19/6
in
19/22 19/25 89/9
89/13 135/16
input [10] 24/19
53/10 53/17 56/3 98/8
98/25 99/3 99/9
125/11 137/13
Inquiry [34] 1/12 1/18
2/8 4/17 6/3 18/8 21/3
23/22 26/1 26/8 43/5
43/9 49/21 95/23
96/10 105/14 111/15
111/22 114/10 114/12,
114/19 115/2 115/13
116/14 116/16 116/23
116/24 117/4 117/6
118/16 129/15 141/6
142/2 147/3
insertion [1] 61/16
insight [1] 27/15
insightful [1] 11/19
insights [1] 15/5
instance [1] 101/6
instances [3] 54/12
70/1 121/15
Institute [2] 8/2 93/14]
institution [1] 31/13
instruct [1] 78/10
instructed [1] 72/10
instruction [4] 72/14
73/3 73/8 78/13
insurance [1] 98/6
integrity [2] 21/20
67/25
intelligence [2] 63/24
69/11
intended [1] 55/19
intense [2] 131/21
141/9
intensive [2] 18/3
141/14
intention [2] 53/21
73/19
interaction [2] 59/6
96/25
interactions [1]
116/24
interest [3] 24/8
27/23 28/9
interested [1] 102/16
interests [5] 28/12
28/23 29/3 31/1 31/5
interim [6] 15/22
54/9 55/23 85/17 93/4
94/18
internal [12] 31/20
31/23 33/14 33/20
61/22 75/4 75/16
77/25 78/7 80/13
109/7 127/10
internally [3] 48/19
77/1 126/21
interrupt [1] 33/23
interview [4] 42/3
46/5 46/7 46/11
interviewed [1]
115/24
interviewing [1]
110/24
interviews [1] 127/10
intimidating [1] 27/5
into [31] 8/13 9/15
27/4 27/15 28/7 29/23,
31/20 31/24 32/19
33/2 36/5 39/4 41/9
42/23 44/15 45/23
49/21 57/22 87/20
87/24 89/7 95/6 97/2
98/25 99/9 100/16
109/10 126/4 130/21
136/21 142/16
introduced [1] 17/12
introducing [1] 18/1
introduction [2]
92/22 145/20
invest [1] 112/2
investigate [1] 69/7
investigated [2] 32/5
42/16
investigating [5]
35/3 35/4 35/6 37/21
63/6
investigation [37]
31/20 31/24 32/19
33/2 33/21 34/2 34/4
34/7 34/12 35/2 35/10
36/5 36/8 38/20 39/4
40/6 41/5 41/7 41/8
42/4 42/23 43/6 43/14)
43/24 44/7 44/14
44/17 45/17 46/13
47/5 47/11 47/16
48/24 57/23 65/19
69/9 69/12
investigations [36]
24/3 33/14 34/8 37/19
48/9 48/12 48/16
48/17 48/20 49/10
50/21 51/24 52/4 54/6
54/16 55/22 56/8
56/13 56/18 58/9
58/17 58/19 58/20
59/4 60/4 60/14 60/15
61/13 61/14 61/17
61/22 64/2 65/3 65/18)
65/22 70/3
investigative [6] 41/2
A1/7 41/19 41/23
57/25 58/16
Investigator's [1]
64/13
investigators [4]
46/8 46/19 58/21
65/24
investment [2] 7/8
TMN2
invitee [1] 85/15
involved [7] 68/7
84/18 97/8 109/16
115/10 132/14 133/19}
involvement [5] 24/2
56/20 56/23 70/19
80/8
involving [1] 46/5
Ireland [1] 8/2
is [348]
Ismail [5] 51/21 54/3
137/1 138/2 142/8
Ismail's [1] 52/12
isn't [3] 81/12 103/20
138/19
issue [44] 13/20
24/11 24/18 28/15
28/17 29/8 32/20
32/25 33/5 33/15
34/20 37/2 40/21
45/11 46/2 46/12
46/13 46/13 47/6 56/1
59/12 59/24 61/3
62/21 70/21 72/8
73/11 81/2 100/3
106/9 112/22 113/11
120/11 121/11 121/18)
121/20 136/4 136/6
136/9 138/22 138/24
139/10 140/5 140/22
issues [48] 10/16
10/18 10/23 11/9
11/12 11/13 11/17
13/14 16/12 19/16
23/22 27/16 28/1
29/11 29/16 54/12
59/16 62/8 62/11
62/14 63/2 63/13
95/23 96/1 96/9
100/13 100/14 100/15
102/21 103/3 103/13
103/14 103/17 103/23)
111/11 120/25 121/7
121/21 124/17 128/3
128/11 134/1 134/9
134/16 137/14 138/17)
142/20 143/23
it [315]
it's [52] 3/8 3/21 4/9
11/13 12/14 12/24
13/3 14/15 14/22
15/16 18/20 25/7 27/2I
27/2 27/6 27/19 29/17
30/10 35/15 39/23
40/17 40/20 41/2 41/9
41/14 47/2 57/13
69/22 76/7 81/7 81/14)
83/10 83/10 84/23
86/18 87/15 107/2
108/15 114/20 118/7
120/10 123/7 123/12
129/24 131/13 136/12)
139/9 140/5 140/22
I
it's... [3] 145/14
145/22 147/9
item [15] 13/2 18/17
49/8 49/9 49/24 51/12)
51/21 52/2 52/14
52/16 52/22 54/3
107/8 107/10 108/1
item 1 [2] 107/8
107/10
item 2 [2] 51/12
108/1
item 3 [1] 51/21
item 9.1 [1] 49/9
items [13] 12/16
14/12 51/18 97/22
98/3 98/18 98/23 99/3,
99/4 99/7 99/10 107/5
125/2
its [17] 28/12 36/13
38/20 39/5 42/23 44/6
45/16 55/7 57/10 59/5)
66/7 85/9 114/4
114/10 126/8 131/24
140/3
itself [4] 39/7 69/2
108/25 132/6
J
Jacobs [28] 31/21
32/19 36/6 36/9 36/14,
36/19 37/11 37/16
37/22 37/25 40/5 40/7
40/10 42/25 43/5
43/24 44/1 44/9 44/24)
45/12 51/22 54/4
80/20 137/1 138/3
141/6 142/6 149/4
Jacobs’ [5] 31/24
38/8 38/11 41/16 43/9
JANE [5] 90/25 91/4
94/2 95/5 149/5
January [17] 63/24
64/11 64/18 64/20
64/21 70/24 72/21
72/24 76/12 76/22
77/6 77/14 78/6 115/9
115/17 118/20 138/14
job [1] 139/12
John [1] 55/21
join [3] 111/4 138/21
141/3
joined [14] 8/4 8/10
10/8 15/22 16/15
18/17 21/11 31/9 37/6
48/17 95/21 95/24
96/4 133/17
joining [6] 16/11
48/10 137/16 137/22
138/10 145/13
Jonathan [1] 123/25
judge [1] 134/10
judgement [1] 13/8
judgment [5] 62/11
102/21 134/1 134/9
134/16
judgments [8]
101/20 102/19 103/4
129/1 130/21 132/23
134/20 135/17
Julie [1] 103/19
July [9] 4/6 52/11
53/23 54/23 56/10
66/19 67/7 93/5 119/9)
June [15] 5/24 51/6
51/8 51/10 54/25 55/8)
55/11 55/20 66/22
67/15 87/6 93/4 99/24
103/8 119/8
just [58] 6/13 9/9
15/13 15/16 17/15
21/8 22/1 27/6 29/8
33/4 33/23 35/23
36/24 44/2 46/1 50/2
52/1 56/2 56/22 61/19)
66/4 68/5 68/13 69/17
69/19 69/22 70/12
72/1 72/7 72/15 82/23
85/1 86/16 88/18
89/22 91/5 91/5 91/15
92/14 95/13 95/18
100/22 101/10 103/2
106/25 107/25 113/5
120/10 125/20 125/22!
128/4 139/17 140/24
143/16 144/10 144/13)
145/5 145/9
justice [2] 89/8 89/17
justifiable [2] 115/4
116/7
justification [1]
66/14
justified [2] 63/14
69/13
justify [4] 12/6 62/20
63/8 69/3
keen [2] 102/18
103/12
keep [5] 92/19
100/20 109/23 110/2
127/19
keeping [1] 29/17
Ken's [1] 119/22
key [3] 10/16 51/19
75/7
kind [7] 35/2 100/15
100/20 100/23 125/9
142/17 147/6
knew [6] 52/17 67/14
123/18 123/20 124/14)
145/10
know [127] 10/19
11/9 11/10 12/21
12/23 12/25 14/17
14/18 14/18 14/20
15/6 15/8 15/11 15/25}
16/1 16/3 16/5 18/20
18/22 21/9 22/2 24/21
25/18 25/19 25/20
25/22 25/23 27/4 27/7
28/3 28/3 28/18 28/22
28/24 29/1 29/7 29/8
29/9 29/11 29/13
29/13 29/15 29/16
29/17 29/18 29/19
29/20 30/8 30/11
30/13 30/14 31/9 31/9
31/12 31/13 31/15
32/16 32/21 32/24
33/1 33/11 33/15
34/17 34/23 37/8
37/14 38/23 40/20
40/20 40/22 40/22
40/23 40/23 40/24
42/19 45/6 45/8 45/8
45/20 47/1 47/4 47/12
48/18 49/3 50/10
50/10 52/6 52/18 53/2
53/3 53/4 53/11 53/11
53/25 57/7 61/4 61/19)
61/20 61/25 62/22
64/25 69/18 70/12
71/20 71/21 71/25
72/25 73/1 76/19
76/21 76/22 76/25
77/2 7718 82/24 84/3
87/25 88/3 88/3 88/14
89/18 110/9 121/2
137/5 139/8 140/12
140/25
know-how [1] 28/3
knowledge [20] 2/16
3/5 3/18 4/4 4/14 6/15
16/9 23/9 28/3 30/11
45/7 53/13 53/15 54/2
67/16 67/17 88/19
92/8 97/10 122/13
known [6] 52/5 56/14
62/10 62/24 114/11
124/15
KPMG [2] 62/11
62/23
L
labour [1] 18/3
labour-intensive [1]
18/3
lack [9] 22/17 28/10
29/6 29/7 31/4 52/25
96/18 120/18 135/22
large [3] 20/15 80/21
144/23
last [12] 43/10 52/21
55/17 88/12 91/22
92/2 108/5 108/10
123/9 124/2 141/6
146/23
late [5] 35/15 55/8
55/11 66/22 107/12
later [5] 6/23 7/25
14/21 78/6 109/12
latter [1] 38/2
launch [2] 38/19 39/4)
launched [3] 19/7
31/24 33/21
launching [1] 45/23
laundering [2] 10/5
54/14
law [18] 6/23 55/19
56/7 56/14 56/20
57/23 58/1 59/9 62/17
63/25 64/9 65/15
65/24 66/2 66/3 66/6
66/11 113/22
lawyer [4] 45/5 64/3
69/1 85/10
layers [1] 83/25
lead [2] 102/25
134/21
leaders [1] 87/7
leadership [6] 84/2
84/4 89/3 111/12
135/20 143/13
leading [1] 123/17
leads [2] 83/4 84/22
learn [1] 58/23
learning [2] 10/20
45/10
least [1] 85/3
leave [2] 26/16 79/19
leaving [7] 74/20
74/21 88/3 88/4 93/21
113/16 141/15
led [2] 114/22 134/5
left [9] 94/8 95/17
115/22 128/1 129/11
132/12 141/19 143/19)
146/3
legal [13] 6/2 7/7
7/11 7/17 42/1 56/15
59/6 80/17 85/7
107/20 109/8 109/9
109/13
legalistic [1] 68/5
legally [2] 85/4 85/21
Lendlease [1] 7/14
length [6] 4/9 13/16
13/22 15/20 15/23
16/6
lengthy [3] 3/11
101/15 103/1
lens [1] 13/4
less [114] 12/24 20/12
82/1 82/3 82/15
111/14 131/1 131/24
139/9 140/5 140/22
lessons [1] 88/16
let [2] 32/21 86/16
let's [4] 70/7
letter [2] 64/16
119/25
letter/paper [1]
119/25
letters [1] 129/20
level [24] 5/7 5/12
5/16 22/14 26/15 27/4I
27/11 30/15 79/4
83/11 84/4 84/5 88/10
89/15 89/16 101/21
102/10 110/23 128/20)
129/10 134/21 142/11
142/14 142/24
levels [2] 143/12
144/15
liable [2] 23/15 81/19
liaising [3] 40/14
40/17 71/10
life [1] 124/8
light [1] 24/11
like [32] 5/18 9/10
9/14 16/8 21/2 22/9
25/2 31/19 39/11 42/2I
45/4 48/5 57/7 63/4
68/2 68/6 70/2 73/4
73/11 91/13 92/12
92/14 100/17 100/24
108/9 110/7 111/19
123/20 130/25 132/16)
138/9 145/8
likely [4] 45/23 87/16
117/2 146/12
Limb [4] 115/13
limited [5] 1/16 6/19
1417/5 141/10 144/18
Limited's [1] 113/24
limiting [1] 59/7
line [12] 5/6 9/4 9/8
32/21 50/10 64/18
67/21 78/15 94/1
99/25 105/13 114/19
lines [4] 14/6 17/7
20/20 98/5
linked [1] 137/21
Lisa [4] 119/22
list [1] 39/23
listen [1] 43/9
listening [1] 96/10
litigation [7] 16/17
96/3 112/15 131/22
134/13 134/18 147/2
little [5] 9/10 10/13
83/5 91/5 92/19
lived [4] 147/2
local [1] 89/14
locations [1] 38/8
log [1] 51/15
London [2] 7/9 7/16
long [10] 20/25 22/1
26/19 82/25 90/7
92/17 110/5 123/1
129/9 145/20
longer [5] 45/24
50/18 110/3 128/2
138/22
look [20] 14/16 15/4
17/3 20/6 33/1 41/9
43/16 49/5 55/6 84/8
(60) it's... - look
L
105/10 106/2 106/16
124/3 124/8 125/22
131/11 143/16 145/21
looked [1] 145/12
looking [16] 12/14
83/14 83/25 84/10
89/18 105/1 107/5
132/22 141/24
looks [1] 131/22
looped [2] 121/3
122/1
lost [4] 14/7
lot [12] 16/1 76/23
95/5 96/23 106/22
107/17 122/5 128/19
132/23
lots [3] 130/24
145/17 146/8
louder [1] 9/10
love [1] 29/14
low [3] 128/20
143/12 144/5
lowest [1] 143/10
lunch [2] 90/13 90/15}
MacLeod [3] 94/3
94/8 95/6
MacLeod's [1] 94/21
made [24] 6/14 10/12
11/4 24/7 32/12 37/4
48/22 68/20 75/5 75/6)
76/8 78/8 81/1 92/1
113/7 116/17 117/21
120/13 120/14 127/7
130/9 130/16 131/5
143/24
Mail [1] 21/14
main [8] 11/9 11/11
16/7 25/23 96/24
132/3 137/19 137/21
mainly [1] 137/7
maintained [2] 88/6
97/15
maintaining [1] 99/6
major [2] 19/21 86/2
majority [4] 57/16
60/18 112/6 138/22
make [18] 2/2 5/1
10/11 10/14 14/19
23/6 29/11 39/20
44/16 76/16 91/13
94/19 99/7 101/4
118/14 124/22 132/6
135/5
makes [2] 49/10
123/17
making [35] 37/12
look... [10] 104/13
13/4 42/4 83/10 83/13)
120/12 131/15 132/16}
128/20 132/21 132/22)
51/3 59/14 59/15
82/13 82/19 82/24
83/19 83/23 84/7
84/13 84/15 84/16
84/19 90/4 107/8
139/6
manage [4] 39/21
95/9 100/11 131/9
managed [1] 136/11
management [3] 7/8
22/18 133/2
manager [2] 32/21
94/1
mandate [2] 78/16
80/2
manifest [1] 134/5
Manual [1] 64/13
many [7] 19/6 23/18
92/16 95/11 104/15
119/10 142/9
map [1] 123/17
March [14] 3/8 3/21
8/10 16/15 48/11
92/24 93/7 93/21
114/3 131/14 132/12
134/3 143/2 143/19
March 2022 [2] 8/10
143/2
marked [2] 114/20
114/22
marrying [1] 29/17
material [3] 55/19
62/4 66/1
materially [1] 143/7
materials [11] 9/24
16/19 17/1 17/9 17/20
71/20 72/1 91/18
91/19 137/7 137/8
matter [36] 12/2 12/6
13/1 24/21 30/10 32/2
33/2 33/7 33/11 35/20)
39/13 50/7 52/7 53/19
55/3 56/9 57/18 66/18
67/7 67/9 67/15 72/3
73/15 73/18 74/3 76/2
78/22 79/1 79/3 79/6
79/21 102/7 107/13
123/4 128/1 132/19
matters [53] 1/20
5/14 8/18 11/24 12/12
12/14 12/17 12/18
12/20 12/24 13/9
13/17 13/22 14/5 14/8)
14/20 15/7 15/21 28/1
28/5 28/7 28/24 30/10
40/1 44/13 44/16
49/25 51/13 51/13
54/25 55/25 59/5 59/8
49/2 50/6 50/16 50/19
61/19 81/3 81/3 81/25
83/4 83/9 83/11 83/18)
107/12 114/21 121/25,
133/12 135/10 136/22,
March 2019 [1] 134/3
82/1 82/15 100/23
105/1 107/3 107/6
107/20 109/3 109/10
129/16 130/1 130/2
133/4
may [15] 20/25 44/11
45/10 55/12 55/12
63/24 66/10 68/4
maybe [1] 121/2
McKinsey [1] 143/8
me [34] 9/10 10/13
11/20 11/22 15/13
32/25 34/6 34/19
35/21 45/22 46/17
52/20 55/17 57/17
84/22 86/16 90/9
100/19 101/3 101/7
101/8 110/3 113/10
124/25 135/7 137/7
mean [28] 10/10
18/19 18/20 21/15
38/22 45/18 60/25
69/21 70/5 70/11
72/21 76/21 80/10
82/8 87/13 96/21
102/14 107/22 111/8
120/20 128/6 130/11
132/8 139/19
means [2] 68/25
132/9
meant [9] 9/12 104/3
109/11 109/22 112/1
116/4 121/8 129/6
139/2
measures [1] 89/17
media [2] 16/13 23/3
Mediation [1] 123/24
meet [2] 42/10
104/10
meeting [73] 9/17
39/13 39/14 39/15
41/19 41/23 42/1
42/13 49/6 49/12
50/22 51/1 51/6 51/8
52/10 52/16 52/21
53/20 53/23 54/22
54/23 55/1 55/8 55/10)
55/20 57/2 61/2 66/21
67/1 67/8 74/19 78/2
78/3 78/25 87/7 87/11
87/15 97/24 97/25
98/21 101/3 104/8
106/21 109/10 112/5
113/11 115/17 115/20
116/8 116/9 116/14
117/10 117/15 117/15}
117/23 118/8 118/12
60/18 63/3 69/24 80/6
111/15 111/22 123/16
76/24 80/16 93/2 94/9
106/18 145/14 145/15}
18/2 29/1 32/20 32/23
68/4 73/22 74/14 83/7
24/15 27/5 30/6 38/17
122/15 122/17 123/3
125/19 126/2 126/4
126/5 135/24 136/7
136/14
meetings [76] 11/25
16/20 32/13 37/25
74/25 77/16 85/15
85/18 86/11 86/14
86/22 86/24 86/25
87/18 87/22 87/23
88/2 88/15 88/16
89/4 89/5 89/6 89/7
96/7 96/11 97/21
98/14 98/15 98/16
98/17 99/17 100/21
104/7 104/24 105/2
105/3 105/4 105/6
108/21 108/21 109/21
110/5 112/7 115/8
115/12 118/10 119/1
121/9 122/7 122/19
137/25 140/17 141/21
146/7 146/8
meets [1] 60/25
member [8] 26/18
32/4 85/4 85/14 85/25
103/21 115/19 120/1
members [32] 25/13
38/20 39/5 42/23
44/13 51/1 75/25
76/14 77/7 78/7 78/20)
79/1 79/19 85/20
86/22 86/25 87/19
88/7 95/4 95/7 98/9
99/23 102/11 102/18
102/23 104/4 106/19
118/2 127/11 134/17
134/25 137/16
membership [2] 75/4
139/3
memory [2] 88/6
88/11
men [1] 27/5
mention [2] 29/25
30/16
mentioned [8] 30/6
46/20 76/22 96/22
113/5 122/25 142/19
142/21
mentions [1] 123/16
merged [1] 94/9
merit [2] 45/15 72/18
met [4] 104/15
104/17 104/20 116/21
metric [5] 114/10
114/14 114/22 115/2
118/18 118/18 118/20)
123/10 123/12 124/11
44/21 74/8 74/9 74/16
87/1 87/8 87/11 87/12
88/24 88/25 89/2 89/3,
105/22 105/24 107/18}
122/22 128/15 128/24)
141/24 142/12 142/13}
119/16
metrics [1] 119/15
microphone [2] 83/6
91/6
mid [3] 38/9 110/23
112/5
mid-2020 [1] 112/5
mid-April [4] 38/9
mid-level [1] 110/23
middle [2] 7/18 51/11
might [21] 14/13
29/21 32/12 41/3
43/13 45/1 70/7 99/3
102/10 106/24 108/15)
109/8 121/14 128/4
132/14 133/12 137/15]
140/6 143/21 143/24
144/3
MILLAR [5] 91/1
145/5 145/12 145/16
149/6
Miller [1] 147/15
million [1] 83/13
mind [4] 30/10 30/23
47/2 137/14
mine [1] 73/5
minimal [1] 10/10
minute [7] 54/22 96/7I
108/5 108/10 125/25
126/2 145/20
minute 2 [1] 145/20
minuted [2] 116/10
118/19
minutes [31] 49/5
51/8 51/10 51/12
103/8 106/4 112/5
112/10 113/11 115/7
115/16 115/19 116/8
117/19 117/23 117/25)
118/3 118/8 118/10
118/11 123/9 124/11
124/25 125/7 125/10
125/14 125/18 125/19)
141/25 146/5 146/24
minutes' [1] 144/14
minuting [1] 112/6
missed [1] 32/15
mixture [1] 104/23
Mm [3] 4/8 134/4
145/19
Mm-hm [1] 4/8
moment [1] 34/15
Monday [1] 119/23
money [3] 10/5 54/14
68/15
month [3] 36/18 55/4
76/23
monthly [1] 105/3
months [5] 73/1 88/8
95/19 140/18 141/15
more [67] 10/11
10/14 15/24 15/24
15/25 16/5 18/2 19/21
30/1 30/15 31/16
(61) look... - more
more... [56] 46/12
49/1 52/25 61/6 63/5
63/7 65/11 65/20
65/20 66/2 66/8 69/6
72/3 81/24 81/25
82/12 83/1 83/20
83/22 83/24 84/3 84/6
84/11 84/25 85/1
85/22 85/23 89/22
89/23 95/4 95/7 96/24
97/9 101/19 102/16
102/19 102/23 103/1
104/10 108/14 112/15)
120/17 121/6 121/9
127/19 130/9 131/5
131/8 131/19 131/25
132/14 133/1 135/6
135/10 136/12 146/12)
Moreover [1] 44/9
morning [7] 1/3
45/25 48/2 81/1 90/10
106/22 147/23
most [5] 30/13 30/14
65/16 138/1 138/7
move [11] 16/8 19/4
25/2 48/5 83/5 106/16
107/16 114/23 131/24}
131/25 132/6
moved [5] 87/22 95/6
97/2 112/9 122/16
moving [1] 131/19
Mr [126] 26/1 26/8
31/21 31/24 32/19
32/20 32/25 33/7 33/9
33/12 33/12 33/18
33/24 34/1 34/5 34/6
34/10 34/16 34/18
34/19 35/1 35/8 35/9
35/9 35/14 35/17
35/18 35/18 35/19
35/19 35/23 35/25
35/25 35/25 35/25
35/25 36/9 36/14
36/19 37/3 37/7 37/11
37/16 37/22 37/25
38/8 38/11 39/21 40/5
40/7 40/10 41/16
42/10 42/10 42/10
42/15 42/16 42/21
42/25 43/5 43/9 43/24)
44/1 44/9 44/24 45/12
46/4 46/18 46/22 47/1
47/4 47/6 47/14 47/15)
47/16 51/21 51/22
52/12 54/3 54/4 54/23
70/20 70/21 71/11
72/10 73/12 73/19
74/2 74/12 75/19
76/13 76/19 76/25
77/6 77/11 78/6 78/19
80/20 88/1 88/8 88/25)
103/9 103/25 105/12
106/3 112/23 113/9
123/7 124/10 125/5
125/23 129/22 137/1
137/1 138/14 139/25
141/6 142/6 142/8
147/12 147/14 149/4
149/7
Mr Bartlett [1] 54/23
Mr Brocklesby [1]
88/1
Mr Cameron [3]
105/12 106/3 129/22
Mr Cooper [5] 103/9
103/25 123/7 124/10
139/25
Mr Elliot [6] 34/1
34/5 42/16 46/4 46/18)
47/6
Mr Foat [12] 33/9
33/12 33/18 35/9 35/9)
35/18 35/25 42/10
47/1 47/4 47/14 47/16
Mr Ismail [4] 51/21
54/3 137/1 142/8
Mr Ismail's [1] 52/12
Mr Jacobs [24] 31/21
32/19 36/9 36/14
36/19 37/11 37/16
37/22 37/25 40/5 40/7,
40/10 42/25 43/5
43/24 44/1 44/9 44/24
45/12 51/22 54/4
137/1 141/6 142/6
Mr Jacobs' [5] 31/24
38/8 38/11 41/16 43/9)
Mr Parker [5] 112/23
113/9 125/5 125/23
138/14
Mr Patel [2] 35/19
35/25
Mr Read [19] 32/20
32/25 33/7 33/12
33/24 34/6 34/10
34/16 34/18 34/19
35/1 35/8 35/18 35/25
37/3 37/7 42/10 88/8
88/25
Mr Read's [1] 47/15
Mr Staunton [19]
26/1 26/8 35/14 35/17
35/25 39/21 42/10
42/15 42/21 70/20
72/10 74/12 75/19
76/13 76/19 76/25
77/6 77/11 78/6
Mr Staunton's [3]
35/23 70/21 78/19
Mr Stein [3] 144/14
144/18 147/14
Mr Tidswell [5] 35/19
35/25 71/11 73/19
74/2
Mr Tidswell's [1]
144/14 144/18 144/20)
90/4 90/12 90/24 91/1
91/5 92/12 94/8 94/21
119/20 120/4 121/23
144/8 144/11 144/22
145/2 145/5 145/12
147/17 149/3 149/6
91/5 92/12 144/8
144/11 147/17
Ms Burton [1] 85/7
MS HODGE [7] 1/8
47/19 68/4 70/16 81/1
90/12 149/3
Ms MacLeod [1] 94/8
Ms MacLeod's [1]
94/21
Ms Millar [3] 145/5
145/12 145/16
Ms Miller [1] 147/15
Ms Scarrabelotti [7]
1/11 48/5 70/18 80/24]
90/4 145/2 145/21
Ms Williams [2]
120/4 121/23
Ms Williams’ [1]
119/20
MSc [1] 93/10
much [23] 10/22
18/17 18/17 18/21
31/10 46/12 70/11
88/12 90/3 90/8 90/9
92/16 92/22 95/3
96/24 108/14 111/14
113/21 127/23 132/13
140/8 147/16 147/17
must [8] 34/11 34/21
38/13 64/8 64/11
64/14 68/15 90/7
mutualisation [1]
30/17
mutuals [1] 30/22
my [61] 1/23 9/4 9/6
9/7 10/11 12/21 17/9
21/8 22/1 26/11 30/10
30/23 31/8 32/20
32/21 32/22 35/5 39/2
41/6 43/22 45/23 46/3
53/15 54/2 55/25
67/17 68/6 70/15
70/18 73/9 79/6 79/7
81/15 82/15 84/22
85/6 90/14 97/10 99/5
101/18 101/23 101/25)
109/22 121/24 121/25]
122/4 127/25 129/7
131/4 132/21 140/11
140/15 141/14 141/23
142/11 142/19 143/6
144/22 146/4 146/19
70/18 80/24 81/1 85/7
145/16 145/21 147/15
Ms Branton [6] 90/24
73/12 146/24 124/23 126/4 147/21
MS [33] 1/8 1/11 myself [2] 44/2 122/4INFSP [1] 42/1
47/19 48/5 68/4 70/16I,, I Nick [7] 32/3 39/11
N
name [4] 1/9 46/17
91/3 144/22
narrative [4] 22/23
23/1 23/8 23/19
naturally [1] 102/16
nature [11] 18/3
40/18 40/24 50/14
113/2 122/23 128/17
navigate [1] 10/18
navigating [1] 27/23
NBIT [3] 18/2 18/19
20/18
necessarily [4] 29/2
44/10 85/23 123/3
necessary [1] 71/7
necessity [1] 57/9
NED [4] 138/20
NEDs [14] 91/17
137/15 138/20 138/21
138/23 139/15 140/6
140/9 140/12 140/13
140/16 141/3 141/9
141/10
need [20] 1/25 10/15
11/4 11/8 12/16 14/19)
32/12 60/15 60/17
69/15 70/7 79/11 84/3)
86/13 110/12 111/17
112/16 119/24 131/17]
141/8
needed [12] 20/1
54/11 56/19 78/24
102/4 112/2 128/13
129/14 132/18 132/19}
133/3 143/25
needing [5] 111/21
122/7 128/18 130/22
130/23
needs [7] 15/15
28/11 59/19 61/4
61/20 83/14 132/1
neither [1] 79/17
nervousness [2]
82/23 85/11
network [1] 98/1
neutral [1] 33/25
never [2] 47/2 129/24
new [25] 10/2 15/22
16/8 17/13 18/9 19/18}
25/2 48/5 48/19 54/9
57/24 62/2 62/13
62/22 63/1 63/12
63/19 91/17 109/19
110/16 112/4 139/11
139/14 140/12 141/8
next [15] 4/6 39/14
45/23 47/2 52/9 53/20)
53/23 69/6 84/22
90/13 104/19 107/9
52/12 79/3 89/5 96/18
87/6 116/14 119/25
129/5 129/22
nimble [2] 61/5 61/20)
no [39] 9/2 11/3
23/11 34/7 38/10
42/24 43/2 43/21
47/10 50/18 55/5
55/15 63/16 65/4
67/14 67/17 70/4
70/17 73/4 73/5 79/6
80/15 85/23 86/6
86/13 99/11 100/10
100/13 100/22 107/2
121/24 128/2 135/18
138/22 139/11 142/16)
142/19 144/12 144/12)
nobody [1] 102/6
nodded [8] 24/4
34/14 60/2 94/11
96/20 104/18 134/2
143/4
nominated [1] 64/2
Nominations [6] 74/4
74/9 76/3 79/5 126/23
127/7
non [29] 21/4 24/6
27/9 28/20 29/5 30/7
31/21 35/20 36/14
38/25 64/17 71/12
77/5 77/9 77/12 79/15}
79/16 86/9 104/4
108/12 128/16 132/14I
136/18 138/1 138/2
138/5 138/6 138/8
139/3
non-alignment [1]
29/5
non-executive [23]
21/4 24/6 27/9 28/20
30/7 31/21 35/20
36/14 38/25 71/12
77/5 77/9 77/12 79/15}
79/16 86/9 104/4
108/12 128/16 136/18)
138/2 138/8 139/3
non-executives [4]
132/14 138/1 138/5
138/6
nonetheless [1]
27119
nor [1] 36/17
normal [4] 125/17
125/20 131/20 132/15)
normally [1] 104/8
not [107] 6/4 9/22
9/23 15/7 15/12 23/11
27/2 27/7 28/4 30/22
32/14 33/23 34/8 35/2I
36/16 36/21 37/9 38/4I
38/10 38/13 38/17
41/2 41/6 41/6 42/2
(62) more... - not
N
not... [82] 42/3 44/9
44/11 45/18 46/19
4TIT 47/10 48/14 50/3)
51/4 51/5 52/18 54/2
55/5 55/15 58/16
58/17 61/24 62/1
62/12 62/24 63/11
64/22 66/4 67/17
69/13 69/19 74/15
74/16 75/2 78/15
78/15 79/13 79/17
79/20 83/13 83/16
85/13 86/6 89/21
92/17 95/25 99/1 99/2
100/5 100/18 100/22
101/7 101/24 102/4
106/12 108/13 108/16
110/6 111/1 111/2
115/7 117/5 120/10
120/17 121/10 121/16)
122/3 124/2 124/4
124/17 128/11 130/5
130/10 132/11 136/1
136/2 139/4 139/22
139/23 140/15 142/11
142/14 142/16 142/21
145/22 146/11
note [7] 77/4 115/6
137/12 137/18 137/18
146/3 146/13
noted [5] 49/11 51/15)
54/10 54/15 116/22
notes [3] 9/19 77/15
88/14
nothing [2] 9/25 9/25
notice [3] 106/9
108/18 134/24
notified [3] 32/18
33/16 33/24
notify [1] 78/7
notifying [2] 34/10
77/16
noting [1] 12/8
notional [1] 68/21
notwithstanding [1]
124/7
November [2] 76/3
105/12
now [29] 6/8 9/14
11/11 14/15 31/19
34/16 36/22 41/18
45/24 47/2 47/19 48/5
52/4 58/19 59/10 63/3,
65/17 68/8 69/7 70/2
75/9 76/2 76/12 81/14
82/4 90/12 105/14
133/24 145/20
number [26] 17/5
20/4 20/15 21/10
22/16 28/23 39/20
48/14 49/8 80/21 88/8)
88/11 91/19 97/25
99/23 103/12 104/1
106/3 106/18 107/19
123/7 127/11 137/5
number 3 [1] 22/16
number 6 [1] 17/5
number 9 [1] 49/8
numbers [1] 18/15
oO.
objective [1] 65/20
objectively [1] 60/11
objectivity [1] 139/5
obligations [1] 85/16
observation [1]
141/23
observe [3] 102/9
130/3 142/14
observed [1] 142/10
observing [1] 142/23
obtain [2] 122/8
130/22
obtained [3] 76/19
118/25 121/16
obtaining [1] 121/12
obviously [10] 27/24
28/19 34/11 46/4
71/23 74/17 85/13
88/10 97/1 110/21
occasion [1] 118/24
occur [1] 146/10
occurred [4] 35/8
42/5 44/6 50/22
occurrence [1] 121/5
occurring [1] 34/3
October [13] 1/1
48/25 49/6 50/15
52/17 54/22 57/2 62/9)
63/17 74/10 75/24
77/18 148/3
October 2023 [1]
63/17
October 2024 [1] 1/1
Ofcom [1] 93/22
off [3] 53/3 67/8 67/8
offer [3] 42/25 43/12
145/3
offered [1] 36/21
offers [1] 41/18
office [137] 1/16 6/19
7/16 8/4 8/8 8/10 8/22
9/1 13/15 16/11 16/15
17/16 18/18 19/5 19/8)
19/19 20/2 20/12
20/16 20/25 21/5
21/12 21/12 21/14
21/24 22/6 22/18
22/21 23/4 23/9 23/18
23/24 24/18 25/4 25/8)
25/16 26/2 26/4 26/9
26/11 26/25 27/1 27/2
27/7 27/11 29/23 30/2
30/17 31/6 31/8 31/11
31/12 31/13 32/5 36/9)
138/17 142/24 144/23)
36/13 36/18 37/17
38/19 39/4 41/13
42/22 44/12 48/10
59/13 65/23 66/5
66/12 68/14 70/3
74/13 74/15 76/14
80/6 81/3 82/20 87/8
89/19 92/15 92/23
93/16 93/21 94/8
95/16 95/21 95/24
96/4 98/5 101/17
109/20 111/7 111/12
113/16 113/24 114/4
116/20 120/22 126/8
126/16 128/1 129/11
130/4 130/9 130/13
130/14 130/15 131/21
132/12 133/15 133/17
134/9 135/6 135/23
138/6 140/1 140/24
141/7 141/15 141/19
143/9 144/7 145/18
Office's [15] 5/23 6/2
22/22 22/25 44/6 48/7
66/4 81/11 104/14
110/21 114/6 114/18
123/22 143/20 144/3
Officer [1] 121/2
Officers [2] 120/22
120/23
offices [2] 36/11
138/3
officials [1] 87/7
often [8] 60/16
102/17 106/1 107/24
108/12 122/10 132/18I
136/2
Oh [3] 47/2 107/2
136/12
okay [5] 30/22 35/7
82/17 125/25 145/2
old [5] 56/15 57/22
61/11 65/8 65/17
on [213]
onboarding [1]
136/25
once [6] 40/6 70/8
70/9 91/17 99/12
130/20
one [43] 2/19 13/14
16/7 20/9 22/9 23/8
23/22 25/12 26/18
29/25 31/20 38/2
38/20 39/4 42/23 46/1
49/15 50/1 63/5 68/2
71/2 71/3 73/5 79/23
85/3 85/24 95/13
107/17 109/12 111/6
113/4 121/14 125/3
131/12 131/13 132/19}
49/6 57/12 58/16 59/8
70/20 71/4 72/9 74/10)
87/10 87/20 88/3 88/4
101/19 108/14 108/25)
135/16 136/7 139/5
146/24
ongoing [4] 24/12
67/24 89/10 96/4
only [15] 26/18 60/5
63/25 66/5 95/15
100/18 105/7 105/25
106/11 106/21 124/4
124/6 130/13 136/1
139/2
onto [1] 32/24
open [1] 121/12
operate [1] 129/10
operated [2] 130/24
140/17
operating [2] 50/10
135/20
operation [2] 36/13
130/19
operational [16] 5/13
15/21 28/3 28/5 30/8
30/10 55/25 57/25
58/22 131/19 131/25
132/5
opinion [5] 84/25
85/1 127/25 129/7
131/5
opportunities [1]
84/10
opportunity [5] 15/11
16/1 79/12 79/14
79/20
opposed [7] 45/8
46/13 47/5 47/11 77/1
86/23 137/16
opposite [1] 142/25
optimal [2] 9/12
106/14
option [2] 139/9
139/18
options [1] 29/25
or [85] 8/4 8/13 11/7
11/7 11/24 12/8 12/13}
12/18 13/19 15/7
15/16 21/23 21/25
28/15 29/5 30/22
32/14 33/1 34/3 35/3
41/4 42/1 42/1 42/25
43/21 45/5 45/5 46/1
49/21 50/2 55/13 57/9
58/25 59/1 60/12 61/1
61/23 63/24 63/25
64/2 64/15 64/16
69/10 69/10 69/13
71/2 75/2 75/4 75/10
75/16 78/2 81/24 82/6
82/10 83/13 83/16
84/4 84/25 85/10
87/11 88/18 90/13
95/22 96/5 96/14 97/5)
101/10 102/5 105/7
105/25 106/11 106/25)
140/16 143/11 145/12)
13/17 13/22 14/5 14/8}
108/25 111/25 113/8
121/19 124/4 124/17
125/14 133/21 134/24I
135/22 136/15 137/8
140/15
oral [2] 12/7 90/9
order [8] 2/6 50/8
50/11 69/11 79/1 84/7
86/20 105/20
ordering [1] 41/19
ordinary [6] 98/14
98/16 101/15 104/7
104/23 105/3
organisation [17]
24/13 68/9 108/17
411/10 111/17 111/24I
111/25 112/16 128/10)
130/1 132/2 143/13
144/6 145/14 146/2
146/18 146/20
organisational [1]
143/8
original [2] 52/15
52/18
originally [1] 80/12
originate [1] 17/17
originating [2] 63/23
64/10
other [24] 12/13
22/18 28/21 40/1
44/12 44/24 57/25
72/15 74/25 75/25
77/6 79/25 83/2 83/25]
99/9 110/25 130/2
130/3 133/3 137/16
138/5 142/15 144/25
145/6
others [7] 21/14 90/7
92/15 98/19 102/16
123/7 137/13
otherwise [4] 41/4
57/9 121/10 143/25
ought [4] 51/21 54/4
T7117 75/16
our [22] 1/5 11/13
11/14 25/23 26/16
29/12 30/6 32/10
32/21 38/24 45/25
47/19 57/13 66/8 70/3)
82/17 84/8 114/3
114/11 116/3 116/24
132/25
out [29] 2/6 5/22
12/17 12/19 16/4 20/7)
42/22 48/14 49/1
50/18 50/23 54/1
58/17 62/18 74/17
96/23 97/21 100/8
114/9 114/14 125/2
126/16 126/24 129/19}
130/5 136/11 137/19
143/8 143/11
outcome [2] 16/17
67/1
(53) not... - outcome
[e)
outset [1] 55/24
outside [9] 66/10
99/17 100/21 118/25
121/9 122/6 122/19
122/21 144/7
outstanding [3]
36/20 39/18 103/15
over [15] 24/16 60/4
70/8 83/1 84/19 92/17,
95/12 100/1 102/13
110/5 119/12 124/8
138/16 144/19 146/24}
overall [3] 33/13 83/3
97/1
overarching [2]
133/1 133/6
overburdened [1]
14/5
overinclusive [2]
13/10 14/12
oversaw [1] 7/21
oversee [1] 129/2
oversight [14] 24/19
24/21 33/13 48/6
53/17 56/1 61/7 61/23
62/21 63/9 63/15
130/19 131/20 131/25}
overview [1] 36/7
overwhelming [2]
139/11 140/6
owing [1] 67/23
own [4] 14/11 85/10
88/19 88/20
ownership [2] 30/20
31/6
owns [1] 36/9
P
pack [3] 49/20
116/23 126/4
packs [3] 88/14
101/15 102/25
page [50] 2/13 2/25
3/12 3/24 4/10 4/21
5/3 5/21 6/1 17/5 20/8
22/14 35/16 35/21
35/22 39/22 43/17
47/2 49/8 51/11 65/6
81/8 86/18 91/15
91/22 92/2 92/3 99/21
100/1 103/6 105/11
106/2 106/17 107/25
113/25 114/23 114/24}
116/9 119/7 119/12
120/3 123/6 131/14
135/3 138/12 138/12
138/13 138/16 143/17)
146/3
page 1 [5] 35/21
103/6 105/11 119/7
120/3
page 15 [2] 3/12 49/8
page 19 [1] 81/8
page 2 [4] 35/16
35/22 99/21 138/12
page 22 [1] 91/15
page 23 [1] 114/23
page 25 [1] 91/22
page 29 [1] 5/3
page 3 [5] 4/10 39/22
65/6 113/25 123/6
page 31 [1] 86/18
page 33 [1] 3/24
page 36 [1] 2/13
page 37 [1] 20/8
page 4 [2] 17/5
131/14
page 40 [1] 143/17
page 43 [1] 135/3
page 50 [1] 2/25
page 51 [1] 116/9
page 56 [1] 5/21
page 68 [1] 6/1
page 71 [2] 43/17
92/3
page 83 [1] 4/21
pages [6] 2/12 2/24
3/11 3/22 4/9 4/20
pan [1] 60/9
pan-POL [1] 60/9
pandemic [1] 20/10
Panther [1] 65/21
paper [17] 12/8 15/23
15/25 16/2 16/6 48/25
49/1 54/21 55/6 67/5
67/12 102/3 102/6
106/15 116/23 119/17,
119/25
papers [27] 13/16
13/21 15/21 15/24
97/17 99/13 101/22
101/24 102/2 104/7
104/11 105/7 105/13
105/18 105/21 105/25)
106/3 106/10 106/13
106/21 107/5 107/12
108/4 108/18 109/11
122/17 137/20
paragraph [47] 5/3
5/21 6/1 17/4 17/7
20/7 43/17 58/13 59/3
60/3 61/9 62/19 63/21
65/25 81/7 86/13
91/16 91/22 97/14
101/14 102/9 104/6
106/5 109/18 111/5
114/1 114/7 115/5
116/2 117/1 117/8
118/23 119/12 120/16)
123/16 127/23 130/7
131/7 131/15 133/16
134/19 135/4 138/15
143/18 145/11 145/12)
145/16
paragraph 1 [1]
58/13
paragraph 1.2 [1]
114/1
paragraph 1.4 [1]
114/7
paragraph 109 [1]
134/19
paragraph 113 [1]
6/1
paragraph 118 [1]
43/17
paragraph 123 [1]
143/18
paragraph 124 [1]
145/11
paragraph 132 [1]
135/4
paragraph 2 [3] 59/3
63/21 106/5
paragraph 210 [1]
130/7
paragraph 215 [1]
133/16
paragraph 225 [1]
117/8
paragraph 230 [2]
118/23 120/16
paragraph 3 [1] 60/3
paragraph 3.62 [1]
115/5
paragraph 3.64 [1]
116/2
paragraph 33 [1]
81/7
paragraph 35 [1]
104/6
paragraph 38 [1]
97/14
paragraph 4 [1] 61/9
paragraph 44 [1] 5/3
paragraph 45 [1]
86/13
paragraph 48 [4]
101/14
paragraph 50 [2]
20/7 102/9
paragraph 69 [1]
91/16
paragraph 7 [1]
123/16
paragraph 7.44 [1]
117/11
paragraph 78 [1]
91/22
paragraph 8 [4] 17/4
17/7 65/25 131/15
paragraph 86 [1]
5/21
paragraph 89 [1]
127/23
paragraph 91 [1]
109/18
paragraph 92 [1]
131/7
paragraph 97 [1]
4111/5
paralysis [3] 82/6
82/19 83/8
Pardon [2] 11/22
83/7
Parker [5] 112/23
113/9 125/5 125/23
138/14
part [18] 8/16 9/22
21/11 27/9 41/2 41/6
47/8 47/9 62/11 82/2
84/2 87/9 114/12
115/24 121/11 121/16}
145/15 145/23
partially [1] 124/5
participants [5]
80/18 80/22 90/2
141/21 144/13
participate [2] 79/12
87/21
particular [23] 16/21
21/23 43/13 49/22
53/16 53/22 72/16
79/15 82/10 98/22
99/3 103/22 107/13
109/10 109/14 112/20)
112/21 113/7 128/14
129/5 134/25 137/15
139/22
particularly [9] 20/24
23/11 31/10 31/14
39/13 108/11 128/18
137/17 143/12
pass [1] 50/11
passed [3] 49/4 57/5
63/24
passing [6] 48/7
50/17 55/18 56/7
64/14 65/15
past [7] 24/21 44/6
70/13 81/16 85/2
91/19 143/23
pastoral [1] 41/4
Patel [2] 35/19 35/25
pause [3] 72/17
140/18 146/15
pausing [8] 17/15
36/24 52/1 56/22
72/20 106/25 128/4
135/9
payments [1] 118/13
people [32] 11/16
13/23 31/9 34/3 46/20}
46/23 70/13 83/10
84/3 95/11 95/17
102/3 109/3 110/24
4111/2 111/3 112/21
120/11 120/21 120/23}
121/2 123/11 125/10
125/15 125/18 128/4
134/7 137/6 144/23
145/6 145/13 147/8
people's [1] 129/19
percentages [1]
25/20
perception [4] 10/8
59/7 59/10 59/19
performance [6]
70/22 72/22 73/5
114/9 114/18 145/6
perhaps [20] 14/7
15/16 19/21 21/10
21/13 30/13 37/4 37/7
42/6 43/22 44/2 47/21
59/23 61/18 82/25
83/2 83/17 83/25
136/15 146/5
period [14] 21/1
26/19 88/9 92/17
95/15 101/20 110/6
123/1 131/9 132/13
133/11 133/25 134/6
134/8
periodic [3] 52/9
53/20 72/22
periodically [4] 18/23
24/23 60/25 108/20
periods [2] 88/13
95/13
permanent [1]
108/16
permeated [1] 144/5
person [2] 94/6
138/7
personal [1] 27/25
personally [1] 1/19
persons [1] 70/10
perspective [6] 14/4
24/17 27/20 32/10
57/8 133/9
Peters [2] 109/15
109/15
phase [2] 23/12
23/23
Phoenix [1] 24/22
phrase [1] 23/8
picks [1] 91/6
picture [1] 60/9
piece [1] 111/21
pieces [1] 123/21
pithy [1] 15/25
pivot [2] 111/21
132/18
place [17] 21/13
21/16 23/5 27/2 40/2
42/13 46/7 70/24
71/22 79/9 86/15
101/2 105/2 122/13
122/19 136/14 145/21
placed [3] 74/4
130/18 143/9
plan [11] 42/9 97/16
97/19 97/21 98/2
98/18 99/6 99/8 132/6
133/2 133/6
play [3] 41/8 56/15
84/6
please [93] 1/6 1/9
(64) outset - please
P
please... [91] 2/7
2/12 2/25 3/7 3/12
3/20 3/24 4/6 4/10
4/20 5/2 5/21 6/23 9/9)
12/11 16/8 17/3 17/5
17/6 19/4 20/6 20/8
20/20 21/3 22/10
22/12 22/13 22/16
22/24 25/2 35/13
35/15 35/16 35/22
39/22 40/13 42/9
43/16 43/18 44/18
47/22 48/6 49/5 49/9
49/22 51/8 51/9 51/11
51/20 55/6 56/11
63/19 65/5 65/6 74/24
91/2 91/14 92/14
99/20 99/21 100/1
103/5 103/6 105/10
105/11 105/19 106/2
106/17 113/20 114/1
114/24 119/6 119/6
119/7 119/11 119/12
120/3 123/5 123/6
124/20 125/7 126/6
126/15 127/22 131/11
131/15 135/3 138/11
138/12 138/13 138/25
pm [5] 48/1 90/18
90/20 138/20 148/1
point [29] 12/21 21/8
22/1 23/2 32/15 38/6
51/17 51/20 57/2
61/18 65/1 68/6 94/5
94/15 95/13 96/15
110/1 110/12 110/16
111/8 113/1 122/15
126/1 129/18 132/11
136/17 139/24 143/21
144/4
pointed [1] 142/25
pointing [1] 145/16
points [8] 32/23
39/15 39/23 51/19
112/20 113/7 123/9
125/2
POL [7] 60/9 66/10
74/5 74/9 81/16 81/25
84/20
POL00103607 [1]
99/21
POL00104112 [1]
123/5
POL00393461 [1]
103/6
POL00446681 [1]
22/12
POL00448345 [1]
55/8
POL00448648 [1]
51/9
POL00448679 [1]
35/15
POL00448723 [1]
131/11
POL00448777 [1]
138/11
POL00448778 [1]
119/6
POL00458017 [1]
49/7
POL00460567 [1]
6/10
police [34] 48/8
48/23 49/4 49/10
49/13 49/16 50/7 50/9)
50/12 50/17 51/24
54/6 54/12 54/16
56/25 57/4 57/11 60/6)
60/12 60/13 60/23
63/10 65/2 67/20 68/7)
68/11 68/15 68/20
69/3 69/7 69/17 70/1
70/9 70/9
policies [6] 5/23
38/24 57/22 61/11
65/8 65/17
Policies' [1] 56/16
policy [36] 6/2 6/4
48/7 48/22 49/3 49/13
50/5 50/11 50/19
52/23 53/1 53/5 53/11
53/12 56/13 56/14
57/24 57/24 57/25
58/14 58/15 59/4 59/6)
59/22 60/20 61/10
62/3 62/18 63/18
63/19 63/22 64/18
66/15 67/21 68/23
68/24
poor [5] 22/17
111/16 115/6 117/23
143/2
portfolio [3] 45/5
108/13 138/2
Portree [1] 49/16
position [13] 5/19
37/12 38/9 40/3 40/5
42/6 54/24 108/24
122/16 131/20 131/24)
143/7 143/24
positive [4] 31/17
40/10 116/15 131/23
possibility [2] 30/16
34/12
possible [5] 20/24
39/12 59/5 104/10
132/7
Possibly [3] 14/14
23/16 25/24
post [159]
post-Branch [2]
41/19 41/22
post-conviction [1]
107/10
post-dates [2] 2/20
64/19
post-separation [1]
21/12
post-the [1] 130/21
postmaster [30]
19/18 21/4 24/6 27/9
27/24 28/2 28/19 29/8
29/14 30/1 30/7 31/20
35/20 38/24 38/25
40/11 41/4 41/12
53/10 68/14 68/16
68/21 84/1 119/16
135/6 135/11 140/12
140/13 140/16 141/3
postmasters [38]
18/4 18/6 19/5 21/6
21/17 23/14 23/20
25/24 27/11 27/16
27/25 28/11 29/3
29/23 30/12 30/15
30/24 31/3 31/5 31/17,
38/1 40/15 53/1 53/3
53/8 53/12 63/13
66/11 86/22 100/4
100/8 112/3 132/25
135/18 135/21 136/7
136/21 142/7
postmasters' [1]
29/19
potential [12] 13/9
24/7 28/10 30/19 31/4
32/11 34/20 38/3
39/17 49/2 50/4 61/3
potentially [11] 30/14)
30/24 31/8 32/16 33/2
43/4 77/9 82/21 83/24
84/8 145/13
practice [2] 126/19
135/20
practices [1] 58/22
practitioners [1]
93/11
pre [4] 54/13 63/3
64/11 64/21
pre-1 January [1]
64/11
pre-date [1] 63/3
pre-dating [1] 64/21
pre-reporting [1]
54/13
precarious [2] 129/3
143/24
precious [1] 120/10
precisely [2] 15/1
115/7
predecessor [1] 9/17
preferable [1] 77/1
preference [2] 75/10
75/20
preferences [1]
77123
premises [2] 36/10
37/17
prepare [1] 14/18
prepared [2] 55/6
7116
preparing [1] 72/8
presence [1] 103/13
present [2] 22/22
72117
presentation [1] 12/8
presented [2] 97/17
101/22
pressure [7] 23/14
23/19 111/7 128/9
128/15 146/16 146/21
pressures [5] 27/6
72/15 72/19 146/1
147/9
presumably [1] 40/6
pretty [4] 16/2 18/16
18/17 89/16
prevailing [1] 21/5
prevalent [4] 21/22
21/25 62/12 62/24
previous [6] 58/7
59/22 77/19 79/2
94/22 122/16
previously [9] 6/3
21/11 27/4 36/4 37/5
52/5 89/4 95/5 125/16
pride [1] 22/20
primarily [1] 111/12
primary [2] 140/7
142/11
principally [6] 95/3
98/4 98/24 109/15
122/7 133/7
principle [1] 128/2
prior [7] 16/11 36/14
56/9 60/21 93/16
139/11 140/14
priorities [4] 11/14
11/14 11/18 11/19
prioritisation [1]
99/10
prioritise [1] 98/22
priority [2] 24/11
100/6
private [2] 111/13
131/1
Proactively [1] 62/6
probably [30] 11/13
12/14 12/20 16/7
17/19 24/16 24/23
27/23 32/9 44/2 44/2
45/6 57/1 67/2 71/20
87/16 109/2 109/7
110/9 110/10 110/20
111/3 113/1 129/12
129/18 133/3 141/16
146/12 146/16 146/23}
problem [3] 14/13
15/20 26/24
problematic [1]
147/10
problems [8] 18/11
18/13 18/14 18/15
19/2 24/12 109/19
135/7
procedural [1] 72/3
procedures [2] 69/21
78/14
proceed [3] 39/25
71/15 71/18
proceedings [3] 96/3
106/8 133/18
process [36] 14/23
15/9 36/17 37/16
37/23 39/24 40/19
42/20 43/24 44/1 46/5
54/15 56/6 56/21
58/23 58/25 60/22
61/6 62/15 64/11 71/7
72/2 72/11 72/20 76/6I
76/9 78/11 79/23
103/14 108/22 136/25}
137/3 137/4 137/5
145/8 145/9
processes [3] 44/7
78/21 126/9
produced [5] 55/14
55/15 99/5 106/14
137/13
producing [2] 125/17)
137/12
products [1] 17/14
professional [5] 8/1
44/10 45/2 58/21 93/9)
professionals [1]
110/17
profile [1] 13/2
profiles [1] 62/7
programme [12] 9/23}
16/21 18/9 18/12
18/19 18/22 18/24
19/13 20/18 139/13
141/14 141/18
progress [5] 18/19
20/5 24/7 109/3 123/4
progressing [1]
100/23
Project [3] 24/22
37/21 65/21
prominence [1]
24/11
prompted [1] 37/7
proper [1] 14/10
properly [4] 44/25
79/4 80/7 141/9
proportionate [1]
66/3
proposal [10] 32/22
50/16 51/2 52/13
53/16 63/20 64/23
66/18 82/25 90/14
proposals [2] 39/20
126/22
propose [3] 2/5
41/24 133/6
proposed [28] 15/5
15/16 15/17 48/21
(55) please... - proposed
P
proposed... [24] 50/2
50/3 50/14 50/24
51/18 52/1 52/8 52/15
52/19 53/2 53/9 54/15
54/24 56/6 57/4 58/6
61/10 62/2 62/20
66/15 71/22 77/7 86/7
89/9
proposes [1] 57/25
proposing [3] 51/23
52/6 54/5
propriety [1] 42/22
prosecutions [6]
48/9 48/12 48/13
48/15 56/9 67/24
protection [2] 10/6
93/11
provide [23] 8/17
8/25 36/7 41/3 51/23
54/6 58/12 60/14
60/16 63/20 66/5 70/2
85/18 106/14 111/17
116/15 125/19 127/14}
127/15 128/19 130/19)
136/5 143/1
provided [14] 1/11
1/15 9/23 17/11 54/21
58/5 60/6 66/2 87/18
99/16 100/20 101/23
102/1 116/23
providers [1] 127/8
provides [1] 125/2
providing [10] 50/6
58/1 58/4 60/22 80/11
118/16 124/13 137/6
137/20 147/18
provision [9] 42/6
48/22 56/19 56/24
57/3 57/10 63/9 82/18
139/22
psychiatric [1] 89/10
public [4] 84/25 85/1
116/14 131/3
published [1] 114/4
pull [1] 35/13
punchy [1] 15/25
purely [1] 131/1
purport [1] 102/6
purported [1] 102/7
purpose [3] 41/25
74/24 114/11
purposes [1] 88/20
pushed [2] 81/24
82/12
put [7] 32/24 44/20
66/14 86/13 128/16
145/25 146/13
putting [1] 34/13
Qo
QC [1] 123/25
QC's [1] 124/7
QCs [1] 124/4
qualifications [1]
93/9
qualified [3] 7/25
85/4 85/21
qualifying [1] 64/22
quality [3] 11/1 45/11
106/9
quartile [1] 143/10
Queensland [2] 6/24
7/4
queries [1] 136/2
query [1] 136/12
question [10] 26/6
26/11 39/1 39/2 77/18
84/22 117/2 119/21
123/20 146/14
questioned [9] 1/8
51/21 80/20 91/1
144/20 149/3 149/4
149/6 149/7
questioning [1] 54/3
questionnaire [2]
126/23 126/24
questions [19] 1/19
1/23 6/22 9/14 21/2
31/19 46/2 56/1 67/24
80/15 80/16 80/24
82/4 89/22 89/23 90/1
144/9 144/11 144/14
quick [2] 16/2 26/16
quickly [6] 61/4 81/6
94/20 108/23 109/3
140/8
quite [18] 9/10 26/18
34/15 79/19 94/19
95/16 96/6 102/17
102/18 105/25 107/16)
107/24 108/17 113/12)
122/5 122/10 132/18
141/14
R
Rachel [4] 1/5 1/7
1/10 149/2
raise [6] 10/25 25/12
108/8 108/19 122/20
141/10
raised [12] 11/24
44/14 44/17 51/5
52/21 54/18 108/20
112/22 117/3 133/9
136/6 142/1
raising [2] 121/22
138/24
range [6] 10/5 103/3
111/11 111/18 128/11
128/24
ranged [1] 95/12
rather [16] 5/16
33/12 39/7 41/12
45/22 54/17 79/4
117/16 118/18 133/18}
136/10 139/8 139/18
140/6 145/20 146/17
rationale [1] 64/7
re [1] 40/14
re-engage [1] 40/11
reach [1] 116/5
reached [1] 118/17
reaching [1] 79/25
react [1] 42/15
reaction [1] 32/4
reactively [1] 62/6
read [34] 5/24 32/3
32/20 32/25 33/7
33/12 33/24 34/6
34/10 34/16 34/18
34/19 35/1 35/8 35/18
35/25 37/3 37/7 39/11
42/10 55/16 77/11
87/6 88/8 88/25
107/14 108/17 115/13
116/15 117/7 124/12
125/13 129/5 129/22
Read's [1] 47/15
reading [7] 16/25
17/20 55/13 60/1
64/23 115/15 124/25
reads [6] 5/6 22/16
36/1 36/8 38/6 114/13
ready [1] 15/7
real [5] 7/8 7/8 7/13
69/25 87/25
realised [3] 110/9
110/12 134/17
reality [2] 29/19 66/8
really [13] 39/24
41/16 76/21 99/1 99/2
101/1 110/10 110/11
141/16 145/22 146/22
146/23 147/10
reason [8] 31/15
67/11 72/13 94/14
117/18 139/4 139/23
140/25
reasonable [2] 24/20
83/9
reasonably [2] 17/23
26/16
reasoning [1] 67/14
reasons [2] 52/6
111/6
rebuilding [1] 11/15
recall [11] 43/2 48/21
49/24 51/1 55/13 67/2
81/4 87/15 106/12
135/5 135/14
receive [4] 95/22
96/5 96/14 142/17
received [13] 10/10
11/2 11/24 18/25
45/12 91/17 92/18
95/21 102/24 107/12
116/16 119/22 123/11
receiving [3] 73/8
117/16 118/21
recent [5] 24/14
24/15 25/9 44/6 88/7
recently [3] 29/11
31/10 41/17
recognise [3] 55/24
110/7 147/8
recognised [1] 80/17
recollect [2] 50/13
95/25
recollection [4] 46/3
96/6 143/5 143/6
recollections [1]
115/10
recommendation [4]
76/8 91/23 102/5
124/8
recommendations
[5] 83/2 102/3 109/4
127/4 127/16
recommended [1]
124/3
record [7] 64/7 78/2
92/10 100/20 117/5
118/13 120/9
recorded [2] 64/8
88/17
recordkeeping [2]
120/10 121/17
records [1] 104/16
recovered [1] 141/17
recoveries [2] 38/1
39/19
recovering [1] 36/19
recruit [1] 75/8
recruited [2] 48/18
58/21
recruiting [2] 77/2
86/8
recruitment [4] 76/6
76/9 76/10 78/11
rectify [1] 42/5
recuse [1] 134/10
red [1] 119/20
redacted [1] 49/19
redress [1] 82/18
reducing [1] 101/24
reduction [1] 15/8
refer [4] 6/2 20/15
121/17 132/8
reference [22] 2/9
2/21 3/8 3/21 4/7 5/8
6/10 22/12 22/25
37/18 44/16 49/7
49/11 57/6 59/10
61/21 81/2 99/20
103/5 120/1 123/18
129/21
referenced [1] 61/23
referred [6] 22/5 28/9
86/12 105/14 129/13
131/13
referring [11] 21/7
23/13 44/18 44/19
103/25 107/1 107/2
109/14 121/18 139/14,
145/13
refers [4] 58/13 61/9
119/15 119/17
reflect [4] 5/18 59/19
61/12 80/5
reflected [3] 89/1
117/19 133/10
reflecting [3] 131/7
132/9 133/22
reflections [3] 43/12
45/19 81/10
reflective [2] 25/23
59/22
refused [1] 67/11
regard [2] 20/24
28/23
regarded [1] 129/8
regarding [2] 44/6
56/6
region [1] 7/18
regular [1] 104/25
regularly [1] 18/23
relate [1] 79/23
related [4] 68/9
103/14 105/1 129/16
relates [3] 13/15
25/12 63/5
relating [4] 16/12
16/16 16/20 108/9
relation [24] 5/1 13/8
14/12 17/18 18/13
18/14 18/15 19/1 34/1
48/15 49/2 49/3 50/4
50/17 52/22 52/23
54/14 59/13 59/16
62/3 67/13 93/9
129/21 134/24
relationship [1]
83/15
relationships [3]
129/4 129/25 130/4
relatively [2] 105/23
108/5
relaxation [2] 58/7
63/14
relaxed [1] 42/19
released [1] 49/12
relevance [1] 11/9
relevant [10] 49/8
49/19 64/8 64/12 66/9
72/8 113/23 114/10
114/12 115/8
reliability [2] 17/22
65/23
reliable [2] 17/24
66/5
relied [3] 59/5 64/21
65/2
relieving [1] 60/6
reluctance [2] 81/17
81/23
rely [2] 18/21 65/24
remain [3] 21/22
67/18 80/16
(56) proposed... - remain
R
remained [2] 21/12
93/7
remaining [1] 29/20
RemCo [8] 115/7
115/8 115/8 115/12
115/15 117/7 138/19
139/25
RemCo's [2] 115/1
116/5
remediation [5] 5/8
5/14 19/16 20/17
23/25
remember [3] 103/18
121/22 146/5
reminder [1] 36/6
remitted [2] 55/3
79/5
remote [1] 124/8
removal [1] 70/20
removed [1] 84/14
rems [1] 100/3
remuneration [19]
29/9 29/15 29/19
113/24 114/6 115/1
117/14 118/1 118/25
119/9 120/25 121/6
121/19 121/21 122/6
122/9 122/15 123/2
130/25
rep [2] 42/1 42/2
repaid [1] 36/15
repair [2] 143/21
144/4
repayment [2] 36/17
37/4
repayments [1]
37/13
repeat [2] 26/6 39/1
replace [1] 16/21
replaced [1] 62/9
replacement [4]
61/11 73/12 74/4
74/22
reply [2] 103/9
124/20
report [38] 8/21
32/11 47/15 49/14
53/22 55/9 55/13
55/18 55/19 55/21
58/12 61/25 66/25
68/10 68/20 69/3
97/23 98/1 98/2
104/14 104/16 114/4
114/6 114/8 114/23
123/19 123/23 123/25
124/6 124/13 126/9
126/11 126/25 127/2
131/15 132/3 140/3
140/3
reported [11] 16/13
23/3 33/7 33/8 40/16
54/11 59/8 62/14
103/16 126/8 142/6
reportedly [2] 36/25
62/23
reporting [10] 8/24
9/4 9/8 18/11 23/5
33/4 37/2 47/15 54/13)
126/7
reports [2] 18/22
142/17
represent [1] 144/22
representation [1]
83/20
representative [6]
103/10 122/10 130/10;
130/15 131/4 141/1
representatives [3]
30/1 80/17 90/2
represented [2]
80/23 136/19
reputation [3] 110/21
143/20 144/3
reputations [1] 89/14
request [6] 39/12
49/12 58/13 69/16
69/18 100/19
requested [5] 53/7
54/18 64/9 71/14 74/3
requesting [2] 60/12
64/16
requests [4] 11/24
60/10 111/20 116/21
required [16] 13/7
18/5 50/11 58/7 59/17
60/10 61/2 67/13
67/18 102/10 109/22
114/16 118/13 119/18)
120/19 128/25
requirements [2]
116/14 121/7
requires [1] 60/21
requiring [3] 20/11
54/13 122/24
requisite [1] 78/14
research [1] 100/8
reserved [2] 12/14
80/7
resolution [5] 61/1
62/15 63/2 65/10
103/16
resolve [2] 84/7
136/9
resolved [3] 103/17
123/16 136/2
resolving [3] 62/14
63/13 100/9
resource [5] 110/13
111/25 132/17 132/19}
132/20
respect [10] 14/7
37/10 44/20 48/13
51/17 59/5 63/18 99/2
100/15 107/13
respects [2] 25/15
84/16
responded [1]
121/24
response [8] 35/23
53/4 117/21 118/8
119/20 120/4 123/22
136/13
responses [4] 1/19
22/15 126/25 136/1
responsibilities [1]
94/23
responsibility [10]
5/13 14/2 28/5 30/9
33/13 51/3 60/5 98/22
100/24 133/5
responsible [5]
36/18 40/14 43/25
55/25 129/15
rest [1] 15/2
restorative [2] 89/8
89/17
restore [1] 89/13
restricted [1] 16/6
restrictions [1] 15/23
result [5] 20/10 56/19
74/2 82/5 82/20
resulted [2] 76/2
81/17
resulting [1] 109/17
results [5] 81/23
143/3 143/6 143/9
143/11
resume [2] 47/21
90/14
retail [1] 138/3
retailer [1] 45/9
retain [2] 88/10
110/16
retaining [1] 26/24
retention [2] 26/3
26/10
returned [1] 143/2
revealed [1] 136/1
review [24] 5/22
24/22 62/11 62/23
77/15 113/17 113/21
113/23 114/3 114/11
114/21 115/24 116/3
117/22 126/17 126/18
126/21 127/2 127/5
127/6 127/9 127/10
127/13 127/14
Review/Project [1]
24/22
reviewed [3] 16/19
17/9 106/23
reviewing [1] 129/15
reviews [5] 72/23
126/12 126/14 127/17]
131/12
revised [2] 125/7
125/25
right [136] 1/16 1/17
1/21 1/22 5/17 5/20
5/25 6/4 6/7 6/19 6/20
7/2 715 7/6 7/9 7/10
7/14 7/15 7/20 7/23
8/3 8/12 8/14 8/15
8/19 8/22 8/23 9/20
9/21 9/22 10/2 10/3
10/6 10/7 12/1 12/5
12/10 13/12 13/17
15/3 16/13 16/14
16/17 16/23 19/20
25/10 25/11 27/17
29/23 33/10 34/21
35/7 35/11 35/12
37/20 38/12 41/1 46/8)
46/14 46/15 46/21
47/9 47/18 50/25
53/14 53/15 53/18
53/24 55/1 55/2 58/10)
59/17 63/12 66/19
66/20 66/23 66/24
68/5 68/19 68/19
68/22 69/5 70/2 70/25)
71/1 71/5 71/8 71/9
71/13 72/11 72/12
73/17 74/6 74/7 74/12,
75/12 75/13 75/17
75/18 75/22 75/23
76/1 76/3 76/4 76/7
77/21 77/25 78/1 78/5)
78/8 78/9 78/17 78/18)
80/4 81/12 81/20
84/21 86/24 93/12
93/23 93/24 94/4 94/7,
94/8 94/13 95/21 98/7,
98/13 99/15 103/24
112/5 121/4 127/18
137/15 139/16 144/18}
rigour [1] 65/21
risk [4] 13/1 59/7
59/10 102/17
RLIT0000337 [1]
113/20
role [38] 6/21 7/21
8/7 8/14 8/16 8/21
9/15 10/11 10/12
10/23 11/11 11/23
19/18 40/12 40/18
41/1 41/8 71/2 71/3
77/24 84/7 93/7 94/5
94/12 94/22 95/1 95/3
95/6 96/19 97/3 97/11
97/13 101/21 127/13
136/25 137/3 138/8
145/3
roles [12] 23/24
24/21 26/3 26/10
26/24 93/17 94/9
94/10 94/14 94/19
108/13 138/2
room [1] 27/4
root [1] 100/6
round [1] 136/12
route [1] 123/17
Royal [1] 21/11
RS [1] 54/19
rumours [1] 100/12
run [1] 2/12
running [5] 97/3
111/23 129/2 130/14
138/3
runs [5] 2/24 3/11
3/22 4/20 36/10
rush [2] 106/7 106/14I
s
Saf [3] 138/2 141/13
142/12
safe [1] 36/3
safeguard [1] 67/23
said [18] 34/16 44/2
59/11 61/11 61/19
62/20 65/1 67/22
73/24 79/18 81/1 85/3
87/9 104/1 116/15
138/7 142/6 146/18
Sam [1] 144/22
same [8] 28/21 29/15
35/24 44/11 64/11
85/16 94/6 94/20
Sarah [1] 55/22
sat [3] 87/4 87/4
139/25
satisfaction [1]
119/16
satisfied [1] 69/2
saw [2] 35/23 147/6
say [100] 6/3 13/6
14/14 15/3 16/12
16/15 16/24 17/3 17/7)
17/25 18/20 19/24
20/20 21/8 21/15 22/1
23/19 27/8 27/19
28/15 33/7 37/2 37/15]
39/9 39/10 39/25 40/7I
40/9 40/17 41/1 41/15
41/21 42/19 43/16
43/19 44/4 44/8 45/3
46/10 55/24 60/3
61/25 63/20 70/2 70/4
70/7 70/11 71/6 72/8
73/4 74/8 75/9 75/24
77/14 78/10 78/14
79/22 80/25 82/11
82/15 83/21 85/7
85/25 86/14 88/24
90/5 92/12 92/14 99/2
104/2 104/3 106/19
107/1 107/7 107/17
109/13 109/18 110/19)
110/25 111/6 120/4
120/16 121/13 122/4
122/7 123/15 124/1
125/6 130/13 131/7
135/4 139/7 139/17
140/11 140/22 142/14)
143/18 144/2 145/17
146/10
saying [8] 64/4 69/25
84/17 100/1 112/18
(67) remained - saying
s
saying... [3] 124/13
124/20 136/10
says [20] 37/18 54/5
54/9 57/21 59/3 65/6
81/22 100/2 103/11
105/17 106/5 114/15
116/12 117/1 119/9
119/13 123/8 124/24
125/24 131/15
scale [2] 60/10 135/7
scandal [3] 62/9
82/20 89/12
scanning [1] 100/13
Scarrabelotti [11]
1/6 1/7 1/10 1/11 48/5)
70/18 80/24 90/4
145/2 145/21 149/2
scheduled [2] 40/2
52/10
scheme [8] 105/15
108/2 113/13 113/14
113/17 118/12 119/14
123/24
scope [1] 11/1
Scotland [2] 49/13
49/16
screen [11] 22/13
51/9 81/14 99/21
103/6 113/21 119/6
123/5 127/22 135/2
138/11
scroll [5] 17/6 35/16
39/22 56/11 65/5
scrutiny [1] 61/7
second [14] 2/7 2/20
4/10 5/6 22/14 50/7
51/11 51/17 51/20
62/23 73/11 115/13
123/23 138/15
secondly [4] 12/6
20/15 37/23 49/16
seconds [1] 146/23
secretarial [2] 11/6
32/10
Secretariat [11] 93/1
94/1 94/22 95/9 96/24,
97/12 101/23 102/7
106/25 109/17 119/3
secretaries [1]
110/23
secretary [39] 1/15
1/21 6/19 6/21 7/12
TINT 7/25 8/5 8/7 8/14,
8/17 8/21 9/16 10/15
11/23 18/10 43/1
55/10 57/8 59/2 63/4
93/4 93/5 93/18 93/19)
93/22 94/2 94/5 94/12
94/24 95/2 95/8 96/13
97/1 97/2 97/6 97/12
112/11 120/7
section [3] 62/3
64/13 102/3
section 9 [1] 62/3
sector [3] 111/13
1341/1 131/3
Security [1] 60/7
see [44] 1/3 2/13 3/2
3/15 4/1 4/11 4/23
22/14 29/4 32/23
35/17 39/11 39/23
42/9 48/2 49/18 51/11
53/3 54/3 55/18 57/3
69/21 70/7 81/14
89/22 90/21 99/22
103/7 104/15 105/11
106/2 106/18 107/10
108/1 113/21 117/18
119/7 119/11 122/2
123/6 125/20 125/23
128/13 134/5
seeing [1] 102/18
seek [4] 40/4 75/21
102/23 128/19
seeking [7] 37/16
50/8 61/6 72/6 98/19
103/21 125/15
seem [1] 57/15
seemed [1] 134/21
seems [2] 29/1 117/2
seen [6] 63/8 65/11
119/17 139/5 142/3
142/9
selection [1] 127/7
self [1] 146/4
self-imposed [1]
146/4
send [4] 15/14
104/10 125/5 126/24
sending [1] 106/4
sends [1] 106/3
senior [33] 7/11
14/25 22/18 24/10
25/6 26/3 26/10 26/17,
26/24 44/3 45/5 45/6
66/9 71/10 73/9 73/13
73/14 77/24 79/11
81/24 82/3 82/12 87/7
89/3 111/12 113/24
126/22 127/1 127/12
129/4 130/3 135/20
143/13
sense [7] 10/13
22/20 64/22 87/25
130/16 131/5 146/6
sensible [1] 117/2
sensitivities [2]
69/23 130/24
sent [11] 36/19 75/24
77/6 78/2 101/1 101/7I
105/13 105/21 105/25)
125/9 127/2
sentence [2] 91/22
139/17
sentiment [2] 76/15
78/20
separate [4] 28/17
119/25 122/11 122/20
separated [2] 94/10
94/15
separation [1] 21/12
September [3] 32/1
74/5 91/9
sequence [1] 2/6
series [1] 10/4
serve [1] 66/11
served [2] 21/9
111/14
service [1] 60/11
services [2] 44/10
45/2
serving [1] 22/2
session [2] 16/16
135/21
sessions [1] 18/1
set [9] 20/7 48/19
50/18 97/21 114/14
129/19 135/16 137/19]
141/12
sets [3] 12/17 12/19
62/18
setting [1] 114/9
settle [1] 38/8
seven [3] 36/10 38/7
38/11
several [1] 58/18
severe [1] 112/1
severely [1] 110/21
shall [1] 47/20
shaping [1] 131/23
share [4] 26/5 26/12
50/9 126/25
shared [7] 31/6 45/19)
51/22 54/4 59/9 60/19
73/9
shareholder [39]
29/1 31/2 31/3 71/12
71/19 71/23 71/24
75/9 76/8 77/4 77/9
77/12 78/16 79/15
79/16 80/3 80/8 80/9
80/10 83/15 83/17
84/9 84/12 84/14
84/24 103/10 119/17
121/8 122/8 122/10
122/24 128/21 130/9
130/11 130/15 131/3
131/4 141/1 144/6
shareholder's [1]
75/20
shareholders [1]
28/13
shareholding [1]
30/24
sharing [1] 62/16
she [9] 9/19 66/25
94/21 119/9 124/24
125/2 145/3 145/4
145/10
shift [3] 131/17
136/19 136/20
shock [2] 133/25
134/6
short [4] 16/16 47/25
90/19 108/18
shortages [1] 95/12
shortfall [11] 36/15
36/22 37/2 39/18 40/1
40/22 40/24 40/25
47/9 105/15 108/1
shortfalls [16] 23/15
32/6 36/5 36/12 36/17
36/19 36/24 37/10
37/13 37/22 37/24
39/20 41/17 42/5
42/17 63/6
shorthand [1] 144/17
shorthand-writer [1]
144/17
shortly [1] 115/22
should [36] 2/12 5/24
12/7 12/12 24/18
25/23 33/1 33/1 37/22
40/7 43/3 47/16 51/24
54/7 55/24 75/3 75/5
77/23 78/21 84/6
84/19 85/21 91/8
91/16 100/13 110/3
110/9 115/3 119/18
120/1 121/2 123/21
127/17 130/1 131/8
133/9
shoulders [1] 15/2
show [2] 112/18
113/6
showing [1] 36/20
shown [7] 22/13
23/15 38/15 38/21
39/7 51/9 51/16
sic [4] 34/1 42/16
46/4 73/24
sick [1] 79/19
SID [2] 75/3 77/1
side [1] 13/11
sideline [1] 77/12
Sight [1] 123/23
signature [7] 2/13
3/2 3/15 4/1 4/11 4/23)
92/5
signed [1] 6/5
significant [6] 18/8
57/14 65/7 65/16
65/19 66/9
significantly [2]
101/19 102/19
similar [1] 84/4
Simmons [2] 113/22
113/22
simply [6] 12/8 34/3
46/25 47/15 61/25
96/22
simulation [1] 52/24
since [11] 15/22
16/15 17/11 18/17
36/12 36/15 36/25
67/15 93/14 124/7
146/25
single [1] 57/23
sir [26] 1/3 34/6
35/11 45/21 46/23
47/10 47/21 48/2
68/18 69/4 69/14 70/5
70/15 70/17 84/21
86/19 90/1 90/11
90/14 90/21 114/17
144/10 144/14 144/21
147/16 147/21
sit [6] 9/11 50/18
50/20 84/2 91/5 140/7
sits [2] 36/22 138/19
sitting [1] 11/17
situation [7] 11/5
109/1 110/7 111/1
113/7 140/10 140/24
six [1] 1/11
sixth [5] 1/18 1/24
4/16 6/14 43/18
skills [2] 75/7 111/13
skillset [1] 86/9
slightly [2] 2/6
107/25
slipping [1] 99/7
slower [2] 56/19 83/4
smart [1] 16/3
Smith [2] 107/3
109/15
so [227]
softly [2] 9/10 92/20
solely [3] 15/2 39/6
65/22
solicitor [1] 7/3
some [56] 1/25 4/25
6/22 9/14 9/19 10/1
11/20 14/19 14/25
15/8 16/11 16/24
19/21 20/7 20/25 21/2I
26/9 27/20 29/11
31/19 32/22 35/2
36/15 41/3 43/12
44/13 44/16 46/6
52/24 54/12 58/12
59/15 80/16 80/17
82/4 84/16 84/18 88/2
94/16 95/12 99/4
102/15 103/13 105/4
106/7 110/7 111/4
113/1 116/23 121/15
122/17 128/4 128/22
129/3 134/11 146/19
somebody [5] 108/16}
130/25 131/2 136/10
146/12
somehow [1] 14/1
someone [3] 34/11
34/21 68/15
something [18] 13/3
23/10 33/25 35/2 45/4
57/13 60/22 83/21
(8) saying... - something
Ss
something... [10]
89/19 96/8 100/19
107/15 108/4 128/5
133/8 133/21 133/22
142/10
sometimes [7] 13/23
105/7 109/9 109/11
119/3 122/16 135/5
soon [3] 95/16 95/17
96/6
sorry [23] 11/22
11/22 13/21 26/6 33/4}
33/23 35/7 38/25 39/2
46/17 57/17 70/16
73/22 82/16 83/7
86/16 91/7 92/14
92/21 94/10 101/25
117/11 136/11
sort [19] 17/18 18/16
18/20 25/18 25/19
29/18 33/15 48/18
53/4 69/22 76/21 79/6
82/8 82/23 85/19
102/20 123/3 136/11
136/13
sorts [1] 83/18
sought [6] 56/3 56/6
107/23 118/25 121/15}
134/10
sound [1] 36/3
sounding [2] 49/1
50/23
speak [1] 9/9
speaking [2] 117/25
145/5
special [2] 43/21
96/18
specific [12] 9/24
9/25 95/22 96/5 96/14,
97/5 100/18 101/2
106/12 113/11 123/18}
136/5
specifically [15]
10/17 11/8 29/4 31/11
44/17 49/3 50/5 52/20
67/2 97/14 104/2
108/19 121/19 121/21
132/11
specifics [1] 49/22
spectrum’ [2] 131/18
132/5
speed [1] 61/18
speedy [1] 83/22
spent [3] 7/7 29/13
109/19
spike [1] 110/22
spiked [1] 41/17
SPM [6] 18/19 137/15]
140/6 140/9 141/8
141/10
SPMs [1] 135/14
spoke [1] 34/6
spoken [5] 9/11 50/2
87/3 88/24 92/20
sponsorship [1]
55/22
spring [1] 129/12
staff [5] 14/16 15/4
42/7 66/9 95/12
stage [10] 50/14 52/7
71/18 94/17 96/25
102/22 107/18 130/21
141/16 147/6
stagnated [1] 82/5
stagnating [1] 81/24
stakeholders [3]
25/24 28/24 111/18
standard [4] 115/7
117/24 118/1 137/10
standing [3] 18/17
85/10 85/14
stark [1] 29/19
start [6] 47/20 90/13
92/13 104/1 110/1
147/3
started [4] 58/20
95/16 95/18 104/9
starting [5] 12/21
114/1 119/13 129/4
141/15
starts [2] 99/25
131/21
state [4] 72/24
137/24 146/18 146/20)
statement [99] 1/18
1/24 2/7 2/9 2/10 2/15
2/19 2/20 2/22 2/24
3/4 3/7 3/13 3/17 3/20
4/3 416 4/10 4/13 4/17
4/18 5/1 5/22 6/6 6/14
8/16 9/16 13/5 13/14
16/24 17/4 17/5 17/25
19/6 20/4 20/7 22/5
25/7 25/12 26/7 27/8
28/10 29/21 30/16
36/20 43/12 43/17
43/18 45/10 49/15
59/11 64/15 71/6
73/14 76/13 77/4 80/1
80/25 81/2 81/7 81/15
82/16 85/3 86/13
86/17 90/6 91/8 91/13)
92/3 92/7 92/10 94/21
96/9 96/17 97/15
101/14 102/9 104/6
104/13 109/18 110/15)
111/5 112/9 112/21
113/12 117/8 118/24
120/16 127/22 130/7
131/7 133/16 134/19
135/2 142/20 143/1
143/17 145/11 147/19)
statements [8] 1/11
1/14 2/1 2/5 60/6
69/10 90/5 104/15
states [10] 51/14
51/18 56/3 56/12
58/14 60/8 62/4 63/20)
64/6 115/5
status [1] 51/15
Staunton [19] 26/1
26/8 35/14 35/17
35/25 39/21 42/10
42/15 42/21 70/20
72/10 74/12 75/19
76/13 76/19 76/25
77/6 77/11 78/6
Staunton's [3] 35/23
70/21 78/19
stay [1] 69/23
stayed [1] 111/3
staying [1] 88/8
Stein [6] 144/14
144/18 144/20 144/22
147/14 149/7
Stent [1] 124/24
step [5] 40/10 69/6
73/19 88/11 128/12
stepped [1] 146/21
steps [3] 35/8 86/7
88/5
still [12] 11/20 13/2
57/3 57/15 57/16
57/18 93/22 119/23
122/5 132/12 142/7
142/20
stock [2] 38/8 40/3
stolen [1] 68/14
stood [3] 54/25 80/14
143/11
stop [1] 72/10
stopped [2] 37/5 37/5I
straight [1] 33/24
strained [1] 129/24
strategic [18] 13/8
15/10 17/21 26/20
27/3 55/7 55/10 56/5
66/14 66/22 82/1
82/11 82/14 82/15
131/20 131/25 132/5
136/23
strategic-operational
[1] 132/5
strategically [1]
15/24
strategy [1] 133/6
stray [1] 28/7
streamlined [1] 61/6
streamlining [1] 58/1
strength [2] 95/14
109/21
stress [1] 70/9
stressful [1] 27/3
strictly [1] 144/19
strong [2] 75/9 75/10
structure [4] 84/1
102/2 102/2 130/8
struggling [3] 69/6
109/23 110/2
studied [1] 6/23
style [1] 112/10
subcommittee [1]
129/17
subcommittees [1]
139/2
subconversation [1]
123/4
subject [11] 6/13
28/21 35/19 51/5
72/22 74/3 99/25
102/7 105/13 113/17
119/8
submetric [2] 114/11
118/15
submetrics [1]
114/10
submission [1] 67/5
submitted [3] 16/19
17/21 106/10
subpostmaster [4]
83/20 136/18 138/20
139/15
subpostmasters [16]
80/22 80/22 82/18
86/12 86/15 87/2 87/9)
87/14 87/19 88/2
88/17 89/11 89/14
92/16 137/22 144/23
subsequent [4] 48/9
56/9 126/5 140/15
subsequently [2]
20/12 127/3
subsidiary [2] 7/22
12/18
substance [2] 102/5
134/14
substantial [1]
139/13
substantive [2] 72/3
92/2
successful [1] 19/25
succession [1] 26/17
such [12] 10/5 29/8
42/22 87/11 89/9
92/17 98/1 103/13
105/4 110/5 124/12
137/11
suffering [1] 92/16
sufficient [3] 24/11
43/23 69/2
sufficiently [2] 12/2
115/10
suggest [2] 39/15
45/10
suggested [1] 29/21
suggesting [2]
120/17 121/1
suggestion [5] 33/22
45/15 72/19 140/11
140/15
suggestions [1]
125/11
suggests [1] 38/10
suitability [4] 23/23
suitably [1] 44/1
summary [8] 22/14
49/16 56/11 57/21
78/2 114/8 114/12
114/23
supplied [4] 9/19
62/6 67/20 114/16
support [32] 37/9
40/11 40/17 41/3
42/25 43/23 46/19
46/23 47/12 48/23
49/10 51/23 54/6 65/2)
71/7 89/10 102/1
102/4 109/22 112/2
114/12 115/13 115/14}
1417/4 117/6 132/24
135/15 135/18 135/22)
135/22 136/4 136/8
supported [3] 44/1
114/18 137/5
supporting [2] 65/11
97/13
supportive [1]
121/25
suppose [6] 9/4
26/15 27/3 29/7 52/24
67/25
Supreme [2] 6/24 7/4
sure [14] 33/24 38/17
45/18 47/10 62/1
63/11 71/25 89/16
89/21 94/19 99/7
101/4 121/25 145/22
survey [6] 22/6 22/10
22/16 143/2 143/5
143/6
survive [1] 145/18
suspect [1] 108/14
suspected [1] 68/7
suspicion [2] 68/14
68/16
suspicions [1] 54/14
sustainable [1] 129/8I
sustained [2] 110/5
133/11
Swift [1] 123/25
sworn [3] 1/6 1/7
149/2
system [11] 16/9
16/25 17/12 18/3
18/16 62/12 62/13
62/25 96/1 124/7
124/9
T
table [4] 114/9
114/13 114/14 140/21
tabled [1] 49/11
take [39] 9/22 17/3
21/6 32/18 33/1 37/16
40/2 42/13 43/16
45/23 45/25 49/5 61/1
61/4 66/4 70/24 71/22
77123 78125 81/18
(69) something... - take
T
take... [19] 82/25
84/11 90/12 100/16
105/2 105/3 106/23
117/5 117/10 117/16
118/21 121/1 123/1
123/12 126/22 128/25)
136/14 142/8 147/9
taken [25] 10/25
15/12 23/5 36/21
44/15 53/1 60/4 62/14
63/13 66/10 71/2 71/3
79/2 79/9 80/12 82/1
86/15 88/5 90/6 90/7
118/14 119/4 121/3
127/17 134/13
takes [1] 2/6
taking [2] 122/13
122/19
talented [3] 26/3
26/10 26/24
talk [2] 146/6 146/12
talked [1] 146/16
talking [6] 47/7 47/8
68/8 123/12 135/9
146/17
Target [5] 114/12
114/15 115/13 117/4
4117/7
team [55] 11/7 11/7
19/19 24/10 25/6 30/2)
36/18 40/4 40/11
40/13 40/14 40/18
41/1 41/6 41/23 46/12)
47/12 53/21 60/7
71/11 71/19 84/3 89/3,
95/9 95/9 95/11 97/3
98/9 99/6 100/10
101/23 101/25 103/19}
103/22 106/7 106/23
106/25 107/1 107/2
109/8 109/18 109/22
110/1 110/13 110/17
114/17 115/19 116/16}
116/20 116/25 119/3
120/14 121/25 122/4
129/25
teams [3] 107/22
109/9 109/13
technical [1] 75/7
technology [7] 11/15
11/16 62/7 65/11 86/1
86/3 86/9
telecoms [1] 98/6
tell [3] 13/25 35/1
145/21
telling [1] 85/9
template [1] 101/24
ten [2] 141/15 146/3
tended [3] 101/15
105/2 105/3
tendering [1] 127/8
tending [1] 102/23
tension [2] 80/5
109/2
tenure [2] 20/25 22/2
term [3] 20/16 23/10
73/20
termination [1]
123/24
terms [20] 18/4 21/17I
25/21 28/1 39/14 42/6
45/11 72/6 97/19 98/7
98/14 100/23 101/25
109/17 112/20 116/3
127/13 128/5 132/24
137/18
Territory [1] 7/5
test [2] 40/24 58/23
testing [4] 52/24 53/5)
53/5 65/23
than [33] 5/16 24/19
33/12 39/7 41/12
45/22 54/17 56/19
72/3 79/4 97/9 99/9
102/16 108/15 109/12
110/3 110/25 117/16
118/18 121/7 121/10
127/9 131/2 132/14
133/18 136/10 138/5
139/8 139/10 139/18
140/6 146/13 146/17
thank [97] 1/4 1/5 2/5
2/11 2/18 2/24 3/7
3/20 4/16 6/1 6/13
6/18 9/9 9/13 11/23
15/18 16/8 17/6 17/7
25/2 35/13 35/16
35/22 39/22 42/9
43/18 45/21 47/21
48/3 48/4 51/10 68/2
70/17 80/15 80/19
86/19 89/24 89/25
90/3 90/8 90/8 90/11
90/17 90/22 91/2 91/8
92/1 92/4 92/6 92/10
92/19 92/22 93/25
95/8 95/20 97/13 98/7
99/22 101/13 104/5
105/10 106/16 107/7
107/25 108/7 112/4
113/20 114/24 118/7
118/23 120/8 123/5
123/6 124/19 125/21
125/22 126/6 127/23
130/6 131/6 136/16
138/11 138/13 141/5
142/22 143/15 144/8
144/12 144/21 147/12)
147/13 147/14 147/16)
147/17 147/20 147/21
147/24
thanks [3] 47/18
119/10 124/21
that [934]
that I [1] 138/9
that's [148] 1/17 1/22
2/8 5/17 5/20 5/25 6/7
6/12 6/20 7/2 7/6 7/10
7/15 7/20 8/3 8/12
8/15 8/20 8/23 9/12
9/21 10/3 10/7 12/1
12/5 12/10 15/3 16/5
16/6 16/6 16/14 16/23
19/20 19/23 20/3 20/8
23/21 25/11 27/7
27/21 28/6 33/3 33/10
35/11 35/21 37/18
37/20 38/12 43/17
45/14 49/14 50/25
53/15 53/15 53/24
54/7 54/25 55/2 61/23
62/3 63/12 64/4 66/20
66/24 68/22 68/23
70/6 70/14 74/1 71/5
7119 71113 72/12
73/17 74/7 75/13
75/18 75/23 76/1 76/4
76/7 77/13 78/1 78/5
78/9 78/18 80/4 81/12
84/21 85/19 87/18
91/9 91/11 91/21
91/25 92/25 93/3 93/6
93/8 93/12 93/20
93/24 94/4 94/7 94/13
94/25 96/8 96/12
98/10 98/13 99/15
99/22 103/24 104/12
104/22 105/9 105/16
107/14 109/25 110/14]
112/8 112/12 112/24
113/19 115/18 115/21
116/1 116/9 116/18
117/12 117/20 119/2
119/5 121/4 124/23
125/23 126/10 126/13
127/18 127/21 128/5
133/2 133/8 133/23
139/16 145/2 146/14
147/15
their [49] 11/18 13/9
13/16 13/22 13/22
14/1 14/10 15/12
15/21 21/17 21/18
21/19 21/20 21/20
22/20 24/2 28/2 28/3
28/4 30/8 30/8 31/1
40/18 50/23 53/3 53/3
63/17 64/2 64/7 69/9
69/12 69/18 71/17
7216 76/5 77/22 80/11
83/15 88/19 88/20
89/11 89/14 135/14
135/19 136/1 140/20
141/9 141/21 143/10
theirs [1] 73/6
them [14] 2/6 9/11
14/1 30/12 40/22 56/8
60/11 66/6 105/19
118/4 137/9 138/5
140/19 141/15
theme [2] 23/17
132/3
themes [2] 22/9
22/15
themselves [2] 15/15
61/22
then [94] 2/18 3/7
4/16 5/21 8/7 10/18
12/2 12/17 12/19
15/14 18/14 32/21
33/3 33/4 35/7 35/14
36/7 37/7 37/18 40/4
41/8 44/8 46/11 49/14
50/7 51/24 52/19
54/18 60/8 61/25 62/2
62/18 63/8 63/19
65/25 66/13 70/4
74/18 78/6 78/10 79/1
91/18 91/22 93/5 94/2
94/8 95/20 96/13
97/13 98/3 99/13
101/3 101/6 101/8
102/25 102/25 106/16
106/17 107/7 108/1
110/12 111/25 112/1
112/4 114/21 115/16
115/22 116/2 116/8
117/18 119/20 119/24}
120/3 123/15 124/19
124/23 125/2 125/4
125/10 126/1 126/2
126/4 126/6 126/7
126/24 127/2 127/3
127/13 127/16 130/15}
131/19 137/20 141/12
143/16
there [146] 1/25 2/13
3/2 3/15 4/1 4/23 4/25
6/3 12/22 12/23 12/23]
14/23 15/8 16/2 17/10}
17/15 19/21 21/8 21/9}
22/14 23/2 23/17
25/22 28/18 29/21
31/4 32/15 32/15 34/1
34/7 34/19 35/17
35/23 36/24 37/11
39/17 40/15 40/21
40/25 41/2 41/9 42/9
43/21 44/16 49/25
51/17 52/1 52/24 53/4)
54/10 54/12 56/22
59/12 59/13 60/12
62/18 65/7 68/9 69/2
70/1 70/6 72/18 72/25)
74/18 75/15 76/14
78/19 79/7 79/8 80/16
80/16 82/2 85/21 86/4
86/7 88/9 91/12 92/12,
94/16 94/19 95/13
95/14 95/15 95/16
95/18 97/10 97/23
97/24 97/25 98/3 99/4,
99/7 99/16 99/22
100/10 100/18 101/2
103/20 104/25 105/24I
106/22 106/25 107/1
107/19 109/2 111/24
112/15 114/25 115/14)
120/21 120/23 121/9
121/11 121/15 121/18)
122/5 123/2 126/18
128/4 129/21 130/24
132/21 133/1 133/15
133/25 134/7 134/8
134/21 135/3 135/9
135/13 135/20 138/17
138/25 139/14 139/24)
140/18 141/2 142/20
142/24 144/2 145/13
145/17 145/17 146/7
146/25
there'd [2] 35/9
140/25
there's [15] 11/20
12/23 21/4 23/2 45/15)
46/6 61/16 82/23 83/1
103/7 103/19 116/8
125/3 139/23 146/3
thereafter [1] 115/22
thereby [1] 120/18
therefore [10] 5/18
38/14 44/11 81/19
102/23 116/6 122/25
132/4 132/13 140/14
these [25] 10/23
19/10 19/24 20/8
21/22 42/4 51/10
55/25 59/7 60/10
60/18 62/15 69/20
69/24 82/18 86/22
87/12 88/2 100/23
107/6 116/22 121/3
122/21 147/9 147/9
they [56] 11/8 11/18
13/24 13/25 15/5
24/14 30/13 31/12
31/16 32/24 41/24
49/7 51/4 51/5 53/10
54/7 57/2 61/5 61/20
69/9 69/12 71/25 76/5
76/7 87/24 88/17
88/18 88/21 88/22
88/23 98/17 102/24
107/4 108/12 108/15
109/20 112/19 118/4
118/6 120/5 127/8
129/16 134/17 135/22!
138/8 138/10 140/14
140/17 140/20 141/12)
141/16 141/20 141/24)
141/25 142/8 145/15
they'd [1] 127/19
they're [10] 14/8
15/24 21/13 21/15
21/25 31/14 41/6
88/24 130/18 139/22
they've [2] 24/20
87/3
(60) take... - they've
T
thing [2] 83/21
121/14
things [15] 97/25
100/24 107/21 110/20
111/19 125/20 130/25)
131/8 132/15 132/16
137/23 138/9 142/25
143/11 146/24
think [217]
thinking [14] 13/24
29/16 32/10 32/12
46/15 68/19 84/3
110/1 121/21 128/14
132/15 137/22 137/23}
138/9
third [4] 3/7 63/5
100/2 126/19
thirdly [3] 37/24
62/25 100/3
this [155]
thoroughly [1] 109/4
those [69] 10/18
10/18 11/17 11/19
17/1 19/1 19/21 21/6
22/3 26/22 27/22 31/7
32/14 39/21 51/9 53/2
63/3 64/5 74/8 74/16
74/24 75/14 77/17
80/9 82/13 83/18
86/24 86/25 87/1
87/17 87/21 87/23
89/2 89/4 89/5 89/5
89/6 92/1 92/18 94/19
96/7 98/18 99/10
100/15 105/1 107/22
108/20 115/10 115/11
115/12 116/6 118/2
118/3 118/8 119/3
122/12 124/22 125/19)
126/14 127/17 133/19
134/20 136/3 137/21
141/1 141/3 141/23
144/5 144/8
though [5] 72/23
115/14 142/19 143/19}
146/14
thought [15] 17/23
38/18 39/3 41/3 43/22
47/1 47/4 47/6 112/14
112/17 122/23 133/21
133/22 137/17 143/20)
three [7] 4/9 26/16
49/11 62/19 99/25
105/18 135/21
through [28] 2/1 9/4
13/4 14/14 15/9 27/23)
32/10 40/20 42/20
44/1 53/1 54/11 58/22
72/16 73/4 85/11
88/21 95/5 101/4
106/6 111/19 121/10
122/3 122/4 122/15
122/18 141/14 147/2
throughout [4] 88/18
101/16 101/18 144/6
Tidswell [8] 35/19
35/25 71/11 73/19
74/2 74/18 79/18
116/22
Tidswell's [1] 73/12
tier [1] 136/22
Tim [4] 119/22
time [80] 10/8 10/12
11/1 12/6 21/1 24/24
29/15 34/2 34/6 34/9
37/6 38/18 39/3 45/24
47/19 48/16 55/13
55/15 56/22 57/2
57/15 58/15 59/1 65/8)
72/16 72/21 72/24
77/3 79/19 81/25
82/25 83/9 90/8 92/17
95/12 96/4 97/5
101/16 101/18 102/13)
102/20 103/15 108/13}
108/15 108/25 109/3
109/19 110/6 112/22
114/17 120/23 123/1
128/1 128/18 129/6
129/11 130/4 131/5
131/21 132/10 132/12)
132/21 133/9 133/10
133/10 133/15 133/21
136/12 137/20 137/23)
138/4 139/12 140/10
140/13 140/20 141/11
141/12 141/19 143/19)
146/4
timeline [1] 121/12
timely [2] 19/1
103/17
times [10] 18/5 24/14
24/15 87/3 104/15
104/17 104/20 109/22)
131/18 142/2
timing [4] 72/1
timings [1] 116/22
tipped [1] 47/10
title [4] 49/9 49/14
55/18 84/4
titles [1] 84/4
today [7] 1/5 1/23
38/3 100/8 111/23
121/19 145/2
together [1] 48/18
told [6] 32/4 32/20
34/21 42/15 48/10
85/12
Tom [6] 116/13 117/2
119/23 124/12 124/21
138/19
tomorrow [3] 39/12
105/14 105/19
tomorrow's [1]
106/21
tonality [4] 53/5
tone [4] 89/5 134/14
136/3 136/5
too [8] 14/20 49/19
56/16 84/18 85/17
129/16 140/8 140/8
took [10] 46/7 94/9
94/12 110/3 115/8
115/15 115/16 115/19)
134/11 145/3
tools [1] 107/8
top [9] 26/22 35/16
35/22 39/22 42/8
83/19 120/3 129/25
136/22
top-tier [1] 136/22
topic [12] 16/8 17/4
25/2 45/22 45/23 48/6
68/2 70/18 112/4
126/7 133/14 144/25
topics [5] 10/5 105/4
137/19 137/21 142/1
total [1] 90/4
touched [2] 89/4 96/8}
tough [3] 14/19 29/12]
76/23
towards [2] 21/17
31/17
track [2] 125/8
127/19
tracking [1] 25/19
Trade [1] 113/18
trading [2] 29/11
29/16
trail [1] 120/10
train [1] 141/8
training [14] 9/15
10/1 10/4 10/9 11/1
16/16 18/4 36/21 42/7I
45/12 95/20 96/5
96/15 141/9
transaction [3] 18/5
18/6 60/16
transfer [1] 33/1
transferred [1] 7/16
transformation [3]
86/3 113/14 119/14
transforming [1]
11/15
transmitted [3] 88/18
88/21 88/23
transparently [1]
100/11
treat [1] 13/23
treating [2] 47/5
64/19
treatment [2] 39/19
43/22
trespassed [1]
146/24
trigger [1] 37/1
true [10] 2/2 2/15 3/4
3/17 4/3 4/13 6/15
23/21 92/7 104/4
trust [6] 11/15
102/11 128/21 132/1
143/12 144/5
try [4] 11/22 15/23
40/25 88/12
trying [6] 28/18 34/25)
129/2 129/9 139/12
147/18
Tuesday [3] 147/21
147/23 148/3
turbulent [1] 72/21
turn [12] 2/13 2/25
3/12 3/24 4/20 22/13
51/11 81/23 92/2
113/11 113/25 144/13}
turning [7] 2/18 8/7
95/20 97/13 112/4
126/6 145/15
turnover [3] 25/9
88/6 120/21
two [22] 21/4 25/18
27/9 31/7 37/17 46/1
49/14 49/25 63/3 64/5)
78/6 79/22 95/13
95/15 95/19 105/8
105/25 106/11 125/2
144/14 146/4 146/24
type [1] 68/8
types [1] 21/7
typical [1] 125/9
typically [2] 126/17
131/17
typo [1] 125/3
U
UK [7] 8/2 73/15
126/20 138/18 139/1
139/19 139/21
UKGI [6] 71/11 71/14
71/19 106/4 130/16
130/16
UKGI00041313 [1]
106/17
UKG1I00043629 [1]
105/10
ultimate [1] 30/23
ultimately [8] 9/5
14/9 15/14 28/25
71/24 81/25 83/14
143/19
Um [2] 28/14 67/2
unable [1] 78/13
Unclear [1] 87/21
uncontested [1]
36/22
undeliverable [1]
144/1
under [17] 22/16
37/21 42/2 51/13
55/22 56/3 68/23
68/24 73/15 114/15
120/2 126/20 128/10
132/3 139/1 140/20
146/2
underestimated [1]
141/18
underlying [3] 13/19
26/23 65/11
undermined [1]
102/22
underpinned [1]
132/1
understand [31] 4/25
9/11 11/16 17/16
17/23 18/13 22/24
26/23 34/7 36/4 37/1
40/23 42/4 44/14
44/19 48/16 50/3
50/20 52/12 61/15
69/20 79/17 84/17
87/6 91/12 103/12
103/25 107/11 124/6
130/23 134/12
understanding [19]
10/16 16/25 17/10
34/17 35/5 38/16 41/6I
42/6 60/24 94/14 96/9)
97/9 101/11 101/12
117/6 120/19 133/23
146/19 146/22
understood [2] 79/13
133/10
undertaken [6] 19/22
22/6 38/11 53/8 53/13}
54/1
undertook [1] 10/1
unduly [1] 68/5
unearth [1] 135/6
unfortunate [1] 23/3
unfortunately [4]
26/15 26/18 29/10
133/12
unit [18] 5/9 5/15
19/15 20/17 23/25
24/8 34/8 37/19 41/7
46/16 48/17 48/19
50/21 58/19 60/9
82/10 107/4 107/21
Universal [1] 36/9
unlikely [1] 106/13
unnecessarily [1]
56/16
unnecessary [1]
56/20
unpleasant [1] 45/20
unrelated [2] 35/4
35/5
unsustainable [2]
110/11 129/10
until [4] 8/14 93/7
110/10 148/2
unusual [2] 33/16
105/23
unwell [1] 74/17
unwieldy [1] 56/16
UOE [1] 36/12
up [26] 10/20 20/20
29/17 35/13 36/21
38/17 42/8 47/2 48/19
(61) thing - up
U
up... [17] 71/2 71/3
77/24 81/9 82/1 83/8
86/14 91/6 92/19
100/25 101/4 101/9
106/2 109/23 110/2
127/16 135/16
update [8] 17/13
17/19 18/18 24/24
24/25 100/2 117/16
118/22
updated [1] 18/24
updates [7] 18/25
89/1 89/1 99/16 99/25)
100/20 100/23
upon [8] 1/23 38/14
45/12 48/10 59/5
64/21 65/2 65/24
upset [1] 46/4
urgent [1] 106/24
us [12] 1/3 48/2
90/21 95/13 95/14
95/19 103/12 103/20 /¥
104/1 117/5 120/20
130/11
use [4] 12/11 12/21
33/25 68/13
used [2] 23/9 87/20
usual [1] 65/13
usually [1] 122/14
Vv
92/22 95/17 97/19
103/12 108/12 111/16)
113/20 120/21 127/23)
128/15 132/12 136/11
137/25 140/25 144/19)
147/16 147/17 147/19)
view [28] 18/10 31/16
34/2 41/17 41/18
43/22 43/25 51/22
56/22 57/1 57/6 57/9
66/8 70/15 71/17
75/10 75/19 75/20
77/10 80/11 80/12
85/6 94/20 118/17
140/23 141/8 141/20
144/16
views [13] 21/1 21/7
21/22 49/2 50/23 54/4
54/7 75/2 75/14 77/17)
78/3 78/25 135/19
virtue [4] 9/7
[2] 38/7 41/22
[2] 40/2 41/19
vitally [1] 85/4
voice [3] 29/22 91/6
92/19
volume [5] 110/4
111/11 128/15 128/24}
137/25
volumes [1] 109/21
vote [3] 79/1 79/12
79/20
vacancy [1] 95/18
valid [1] 140/25
valuable [1] 85/24
valued [2] 141/20
141/22
various [4] 69/10
69/20 93/17 123/21
vary [2] 102/10
102/13
Venus [1] 37/21
VERONICA [4] 90/25
91/4 105/18 149/5
version [4] 17/22
62/8 62/25 98/11
versions [1] 17/11
versus [1] 97/12
very [65] 10/10 10/17
10/22 11/8 11/19
12/15 18/20 18/21
23/6 23/6 27/2 27/3
27/5 27/25 28/6 29/11
29/12 29/12 29/20
31/10 31/11 31/11
31/14 31/14 38/22
38/23 45/7 45/20
45/20 63/16 69/23
70/14 71/24 72/21
80/10 81/6 85/24
87/22 87/22 87/23
87/23 87/23 87/24
90/3 90/8 90/9 92/20
Ww
1] 106/24
waiting [2] 73/1 81/9
walking [1] 27/4
want [15] 6/21 13/3
16/3 16/3 69/11 69/20
86/11 91/22 113/11
131/23 133/14 144/25)
145/9 145/14 145/15
wanted [6] 46/25
53/10 94/18 99/7
109/10 124/16
wanting [2] 109/2
111/4
warrant [1] 12/3
warranted [1] 72/20
was [307]
wasn't [10] 74/13
74/18 77/5 79/6 80/1
100/18 104/10 118/21
122/3 123/1
way [15] 12/7 13/6
26/20 34/12 36/6 40/8)
46/25 50/5 60/11 61/1
68/13 100/21 103/18
111/6 125/20
ways [2] 29/22 89/11
we [142] 1/24 1/25
2/7 6/21 14/14 14/16
14/18 17/3 17/6 18/20
20/6 22/13 22/14
25/17 25/22 25/24
26/15 26/18 27/25
28/6 35/13 35/15
35/16 35/21 35/23
39/15 39/21 39/23
42/3 42/4 42/8 42/9
43/16 46/15 47/19
47/20 47/21 49/5
51/10 51/11 54/3 55/6
55/18 56/11 62/18
62/22 65/5 65/5 67/2
68/8 78/24 81/6 81/14
84/1 84/3 85/13 87/6
88/3 88/3 88/12 88/13)
90/5 90/12 90/12
90/13 90/14 91/12
91/15 95/12 95/18
98/18 99/6 99/20
99/22 100/1 100/3
100/4 100/5 100/9
100/11 100/12 101/23
103/5 103/7 103/16
105/10 105/11 106/2
106/2 106/6 106/16
106/17 107/10 107/11
107/25 107/25 113/20
113/21 113/25 114/23}
115/11 116/9 116/13
116/13 116/15 116/17
117/18 119/6 119/7
119/12 119/24 120/3
120/9 121/1 122/14
123/5 123/6 123/11
124/3 124/19 125/4
125/22 125/23 127/22I
128/13 131/11 131/14
132/24 132/25 132/25)
135/2 136/11 137/10
138/11 138/12 138/15}
138/18 138/22 140/12
143/16 144/16 145/1
we'd [3] 70/2 116/16
138/21
we're [8] 64/4 72/22
81/9 86/2 86/8 90/23
136/11 147/21
we've [7] 15/22 28/1
44/2 50/1 57/14 79/18
88/12
weakness [1] 116/3
Wednesday [1] 88/1
week [7] 43/10 104/8
104/11 107/9 124/2
141/6 147/22
weekly [2] 105/2
105/24
weeks [2] 71/21
121/14
weight [1] 66/7
well [60] 10/4 10/15
11/13 12/14 13/4
15/15 17/19 25/17
25/19 25/22 25/25
27/20 29/6 29/7 30/6
32/9 32/17 33/15 44/3
45/4 46/24 52/15
53/19 56/17 61/18
67/21 72/1 76/7 77/13)
78/24 84/8 84/14 86/2
87/5 88/4 88/8 88/16
88/24 90/3 99/4
102/20 105/5 107/17
107/20 111/4 111/14
119/19 122/14 128/19}
128/21 129/24 133/4
134/7 136/7 136/10
136/15 137/10 143/23}
144/24 147/17
went [4] 46/10 73/9
78/10 104/13
were [131] 6/23 7/3
7/11 9/23 21/10 23/15)
24/5 32/18 34/4 38/23
38/24 44/14 44/17
44/19 44/22 44/23
48/10 49/11 49/25
51/2 51/4 51/5 51/19
52/6 54/12 57/4 58/21
59/7 62/24 63/16 65/9)
65/17 66/21 67/4
67/11 71/25 72/2 72/8
74/10 74/11 74/16
75/14 77/17 78/3
79/13 92/23 93/1
93/25 94/6 94/9 94/10
94/15 94/19 95/11
95/14 95/15 95/17
96/3 97/10 97/17
97/22 98/17 99/6
99/16 100/15 100/16
100/25 101/22 102/23)
105/7 105/24 106/21
107/12 107/23 108/4
108/13 108/20 108/22)
109/12 109/20 109/22,
112/6 112/19 115/12
116/7 116/13 117/23
117/25 118/4 118/6
118/25 120/23 121/9
121/15 121/15 122/1
122/5 122/12 122/24
124/4 124/17 128/1
128/2 129/6 129/16
130/22 130/24 132/14}
132/16 135/14 136/4
136/6 137/14 137/14
137/15 137/25 138/3
138/10 138/21 140/7
140/13 141/20 141/22)
141/24 141/25 142/20}
142/24 143/9 145/17
146/7 146/25
weren't [6] 8/13 99/7
115/24 119/4 122/21
145/18
what [114] 10/8
10/10 10/13 11/4
11/11 13/19 14/3
14/19 15/1 15/17
15/19 16/3 17/3 17/20
18/10 21/15 22/24
25/15 26/23 27/22
28/18 29/2 30/4 30/19
32/4 32/18 33/3 34/15]
34/16 34/17 34/25
35/22 36/25 40/12
41/3 41/8 41/9 41/24
41/25 42/5 43/12
43/16 44/17 47/19
48/10 50/13 50/22
52/3 52/6 52/12 52/20)
56/22 57/7 57/8 57/21
59/16 60/10 61/15
63/19 63/20 64/4
68/25 69/6 69/21
70/14 72/13 73/8
74/24 75/6 77/13
77/22 78/21 79/13
80/25 82/5 82/13
82/13 83/8 85/8 85/11
85/21 86/7 88/5 94/14
95/15 96/21 97/8
97/10 97/20 102/14
110/1 111/8 112/2
112/18 112/19 113/5
115/7 117/21 120/20
124/12 124/14 126/14)
128/6 129/7 130/11
132/8 132/9 133/3
133/24 134/5 137/3
137/14 141/23 145/10)
what's [10] 2/18 15/6
15/16 40/18 58/6
69/15 69/17 69/20
87/17 143/5
whatever [2] 40/21
69/11
when [71] 13/9 21/15
30/25 31/23 32/18
33/24 37/6 40/17
42/15 46/3 48/21
48/25 55/16 55/17
58/15 60/18 61/20
65/17 72/10 73/19
78/19 82/11 87/3 87/4I
93/25 94/8 95/1 95/6
95/8 95/21 95/24
96/13 97/2 99/2
100/16 103/25 104/9
105/6 105/24 107/1
107/4 109/13 110/24
112/10 112/25 120/12)
122/14 124/14 124/15)
125/9 125/13 129/12
129/14 132/7 132/8
132/17 133/16 134/15)
135/14 136/5 136/14
137/6 137/10 137/12
137/14 138/9 139/17
140/22 142/14 143/7
143/10
whenever [2] 106/10
(62) up... - whenever
Ww
whenever... [1] 135/9
where [37] 12/15
12/24 12/24 14/16
17/15 20/7 21/9 23/3
29/4 30/13 32/13 38/1
40/15 44/21 52/25
54/25 57/3 57/13 64/9
70/1 76/19 81/6 84/1
90/12 93/22 101/5
102/3 108/4 113/6
121/15 126/1 128/18
131/24 134/9 135/21
136/8 139/22
whereas [3] 95/6
105/2 138/2
whether [31] 2/2 12/2!
12/7 15/6 20/22 32/14}
37/22 37/24 38/18
39/2 39/3 43/23 51/1
51/21 53/25 54/3
69/13 71/17 75/2 75/5
75/15 83/13 83/16
87/17 97/10 116/6
124/3 127/19 128/13
140/14 140/19
which [97] 1/14 1/14
1/20 2/6 6/2 6/5 6/13
11/2 12/12 12/12
12/15 12/17 12/18
12/19 14/8 18/2 18/9
18/11 19/2 19/6 20/1
20/4 21/7 22/6 22/9
22/15 23/8 23/10
23/22 24/12 24/18
25/18 26/4 26/12
28/22 29/22 29/25
30/14 30/16 35/14
36/10 38/2 43/6 44/13,
45/23 46/7 49/20 50/1
50/5 50/6 51/12 51/18
52/5 52/10 52/20
53/25 55/6 58/7 60/21
61/11 62/19 62/22
62/23 65/1 66/2 70/19
72/13 74/11 77/16
80/7 92/3 96/3 98/4
100/4 102/13 104/2
106/23 106/24 112/1
112/4 113/4 113/13
114/22 116/12 119/16)
120/3 124/6 126/19
127/16 128/3 129/10
129/18 130/25 135/7
138/15 143/2 145/11
while [7] 13/7 43/20
81/9 110/8 129/1
134/11 143/23
whilst [3] 9/4 17/10
29/13
whistleblowing [2]
5/23 10/6
Whitehall [1] 75/11
whittle [1] 14/17
who [34] 15/10 20/25
21/9 23/14 23/18 31/9)
32/2 33/13 43/25 52/1
75/11 77/23 85/13
85/20 87/1 87/21
95/17 101/1 103/10
103/25 107/1 108/16
109/13 112/18 123/18)
124/14 130/10 131/2
137/15 140/13 145/13)
who'd [2] 1041/1
136/7
who's [1] 85/4
whole [2] 46/12
111/18
whom [1] 124/15
whose [6] 75/14
7717 89/12 98/22
100/24 133/5
why [30] 9/3 16/3
26/14 32/8 33/11
41/17 42/4 45/1 47/1
47/4 47/10 52/19 63/6
64/25 67/11 70/6 70/6
71/17 77/8 94/14
106/24 110/19 112/13}
117/12 117/18 118/14}
136/19 139/22 144/2
146/11
wide [1] 111/11
widely [1] 23/9
wider [4] 28/12 84/2
89/8 121/19
widespread [2] 21/23
21/25
will [25] 1/23 14/1
15/4 15/5 15/8 40/2
40/4 41/23 60/15
60/17 62/7 65/24 88/9)
99/4 100/10 102/15
102/18 119/23 119/25)
131/23 134/7 138/22
144/15 146/1 146/17
Williams [5] 114/17
116/18 119/8 120/4
121/23
Williams’ [1] 119/20
wish [2] 2/2 4/25
wished [4] 57/3
69/23 108/15 109/12
within [31] 13/1
17/15 19/5 19/7 19/19
20/1 20/16 20/17 21/5
21/22 23/9 23/18
23/24 24/8 24/12 25/8
26/4 26/10 30/1 30/12
59/12 65/21 81/2
87/10 97/11 98/5
121/14 129/25 141/15)
143/13 146/4
without [8] 34/23
46/17 49/21 53/17
64/21 120/13 122/13
144/15
WITN11120100 [1]
2/21
WITN11120200 [1]
2/9
WITN11120300 [1]
3/8
WITN11120400 [1]
3/21
WITN11120500 [1]
Al7
WITN11120600 [3]
17/5 43/18 81/7
WITN11420100 [4]
92/11 127/23 135/3
143/17
witness [31] 1/5 1/6
1/24 4/10 24/4 34/14
49/15 60/2 60/5 64/15
67/19 69/10 82/16
90/5 90/13 91/8 92/3
94/11 94/21 96/20
104/18 127/22 130/7
134/2 135/2 142/19
143/1 143/4 143/17
145/1 147/18
women [3] 26/3
26/10 26/24
wonder [3] 20/6
35/13 45/24
word [3] 33/25 66/4
146/10
wording [1] 64/12
words [2] 52/25
111/8
work [15] 20/11 27/2
31/11 31/14 40/20
40/22 84/12 111/11
111/19 123/21 126/21
129/23 131/22 135/5
146/17
worked [5] 83/3 83/3
106/6 107/4 144/23
working [13] 7/7
20/17 27/6 31/8 71/19
101/16 101/18 107/21
109/20 130/4 131/2
133/15 136/3
world [2] 69/25 144/7
worth [1] 144/14
would [124] 5/18
11/19 13/2 13/3 14/14
18/18 19/24 27/19
28/15 29/14 30/14
30/23 30/24 31/3
33/16 39/11 40/10
41/1 41/16 42/2 42/20
45/6 45/24 46/1 50/5
50/9 50/17 50/20 52/3;
52/9 52/24 53/1 53/4
53/21 54/16 57/15
58/3 58/5 61/7 61/11
63/19 67/2 68/5 69/1
70/1 70/3 73/1 75/4
75/6 78/24 80/13
82/24 83/21 83/22
84/12 84/12 84/14
84/24 85/10 85/16
90/14 92/14 97/4 97/8
97/9 97/23 97/24
97/25 98/1 98/3 98/4
98/19 99/13 99/17
99/19 101/14 101/3
101/8 101/25 102/1
102/7 104/3 104/7
105/25 107/14 107/17}
109/12 111/3 112/15
116/13 117/3 119/24
120/5 121/10 122/4
122/10 122/16 124/12
125/17 125/20 126/1
126/1 126/3 126/3
126/16 126/18 126/21
126/24 127/2 127/3
127/4 127/8 127/9
127/10 127/15 128/12)
129/7 130/5 130/13
130/16 131/5 133/5
141/2 145/25
wouldn't [7] 34/23
42/19 90/6 96/17
98/18 102/6 111/1
write [1] 41/23
writer [1] 144/17
writing [1] 104/13
written [1] 61/1
wrong [6] 43/13
69/17 81/18 85/2
134/13 134/18
wrongful [2] 29/10
29/16
wrote [2] 35/14 46/16
Wyn [1] 114/17
Y
yeah [23] 10/12
11/22 14/21 15/12
16/6 17/19 18/23
29/14 34/23 70/5
70/11 72/1 72/17 73/6)
76/24 76/24 79/18
82/9 85/19 89/6 89/18
130/13 146/9
year [21] 3/21 6/15
7/3 22/7 24/6 24/16
70/21 71/2 71/3 74/5
76/12 76/22 77/19
98/1 104/16 104/19
104/19 114/5 121/16
126/17 126/19
years [8] 21/10 25/9
48/14 58/18 88/7
88/12 120/22 146/25
yes [243]
yet [6] 28/15 38/10
86/5 88/8 92/18 100/5I
you [727]
you'd [7] 10/25 11/2
71/10 81/1 91/13
92/12 121/13
you'll [1] 146/5
you're [19] 9/10
10/17 23/10 45/5 45/5}
61/24 81/9 84/17
86/14 92/20 93/22
99/24 121/1 128/18
128/19 135/9 138/24
139/14 145/12
you've [30] 1/11 1/15
1/18 6/13 14/23 16/2
16/16 16/19 16/24
19/2 22/5 25/6 29/21
35/8 35/17 36/3 41/9
50/22 57/6 59/11
76/12 85/3 86/12
93/13 103/8 130/20
131/6 142/3 144/18
145/5
Young [1] 5/23
your [188]
yourself [2] 47/14
144/19
(63) whenever... - yourself