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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Tuesday, 8 October 2024
(10.00 am)
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Morning, everyone.
Mr Blake.
MR BLAKE: Thank you, sir. This morning we're going to hear
from Ms McEwan.
KAREN ANITA McEWAN (sworn)
Questioned by MR BLAKE
MR BLAKE: Thank you. Can you give your full name, please?
A. Karen Anita McEwan.
Q. Thank you very much. You should in front of you have
a witness statement behind tab A or tab A1. I'm going
to ask you to turn to that, please. Is that statement
dated 17 September this year?
A. Yes.
Q. Can ask you, please, to turn to page 74.
A. Yes.
Q. Can you confirm that is your signature?
A. Itis.
Q. Can you confirm that that statement is true to the best
of your knowledge and belief?
A. Ican confirm.
Q. Thank you very much. That witness statement has the
unique reference number WITN11360100, and that will be
published on the Inquiry’s website. By way of
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People Officer at the Post Office in September 2023?
A. Idid.
Q._ I want to start by looking at your induction.
Paragraphs 15 and 16 of your statement, you have said
that you didn't receive any formal induction or
training, and you took a number of actions yourself,
speaking to people. Can you assist us with why that
was?
A. I think at that time, obviously I reported directly to
Nick Read, who was the Chief Executive, and Nick was
extremely busy during that period. The People function
itself was not staffed very well, and people were under
a lot of pressure in that function and I just think
there was no time to do a formal induction process.
Q. If could bring up on to screen your witness statement,
WITN11360100. If we could look at page 7, please. I'll
just read couple of sections from this page when it
comes onto screen. Thank you. It's page 7,
paragraph 21. You say there:
"I did not have sufficient understanding of the
context of the business and felt I should have been told
more about it before I started. I had not fully
appreciated the stress that the business and the
Executive were under, or that I was expected to, and
needed to, start work on an urgent basis to begin to
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background, you hold a first class honours degree in
psychology; is that right?
That is correct.
You have 30 years’ experience in specialist HR and
operational management roles for large organisations?
That's true, yes.
Can you assist us with what specialist HR is?
Just years of experience, formal coaching and formal
training through businesses like Tesco, and my degree,
obviously, which is hugely relevant to my vocation.
Thank you. You worked at Tesco from 1981 to 2016; is
that correct?
That's correct.
Including, as UK People Director. Is that head of
a particular team, part of the management structure?
It was part of the operational management structure and
I led the People function for the UK, which was all of
the stores, distribution and support centres.
In 2016 you moved to become Chief People Officer at
McColl's Retail Group; is that right?
That's correct.
You moved up the ranks to become Interim Chief Executive
before it was purchased by Morrisons; is that right?
That's right.
Most relevant for today's purpose, you became Chief
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help to fix the issues the business was experiencing and
support the Executive Team. This meant that, whilst my
background and relative experience allowed me to move
into the role without difficulty, I did not have
a pleasant or comfortable introduction into the
business."
At paragraph 22 you also say, about halfway down
that paragraph:
"However, upon joining [the Post Office] it became
clear that the scale of my role was more significant
than I had anticipated. The level of expectation of my
working hours and visibility across the business, made
it necessary to take on a rental property in London to
be able to manage the demands of the business. This has
impacted my personal life.”
Where did the original expectation come from, in
respect of the work that you would be required to do?
I wouldn't attribute that to any individual telling me
that; it was just apparent, given the experience that
I had had in other businesses, I could see that things
were less stable than I might have understood. It
didn't come from any individual; it was just my
understanding and my observations of the business at
that time.
What was your first impression of how the business was
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run?
Do you mean generally?
Yes.
I didn't form an observation on how it was run initially
because I would have expected to have had time to
consider that and to have understood properly exactly
how things were working. I think specifically, in the
People function, it was chaotic.
You had worked with Mr Read before at Tesco. How well
did you know each other; what was your relationship?
We had never worked together. We both were on
a management development programme in around 2002,
I think. From memory, we didn't work together, we had
a 12-week or so programme where we had got to know each
other as part of a group of about 16 people. After that
time, I didn’t have any further contact with Nick at all
until I joined the Post Office, or just before.
What was your initial impression of how he was running
the Post Office when you joined?
I felt initially the business looked like it was well
run and Nick's reputation was, as I knew it, from
someone of integrity, and he had experience and was
highly regarded in his role at Tesco. So that was the
impression that I brought to the business with me.
In respect of the Chair, Mr Staunton, at that time, what
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lam.
We've heard that your post was one that changed hands
a lot and you've addressed that in your witness
statement, you've given reasons for the pressures that
people were under in that team. One of the reasons you
say is that members felt undervalued. Can you expand on
that for us?
On initially joining, I was very keen to get as much
information about the culture of the business as
I could, and I asked the team very open questions, this
is the People Team, the people that I would have been
responsible for managing, effectively, in my role.
I just feel that they felt that the efforts they were
making and that they were putting into the business were
just not appreciated and they were finding it very
difficult to make progress, unsurprisingly, in the
circumstances.
When you say the circumstances, do you mean the fallout
from the Horizon scandal, the Inquiry, or something
else?
Yes, definitely, but also just the lack of leadership in
that function at that time and the lack of attention
that the function had.
The other reason you've given is that people were unable
to effect change in the business and you say "including
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was your initial impression of Mr Staunton?
I'm afraid I didn’t have a very good impression,
initially.
Why was that?
I think until any personal encounter that I had had with
Mr Staunton, it was a general demeanour that I felt made
me and other people feel quite uncomfortable, in terms
of his behaviour, certainly in and around the office in
London.
You say in your witness statement that “onboarding
wasn't typical of a large organisation"; what do you
mean by that?
That there was just no formal process. So it was
obvious that I would have to self-initiate that process
and get to meet with the people that I felt I really
needed to meet with, it just was unstructured and less
structured than I would have expected. There just
wasn't a formality to the process.
Who was responsible for onboarding at that time?
I think primarily it would have been the Chief People
Officer but, as I joined, there was nobody in that role
and one of the existing team was being asked to step up
to cover that role, so the focus on that probably
wouldn't have been as one would have expected.
Are you now responsible for that role?
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how performance was managed"; what do you mean by that?
I would say the biggest and most common thread of the
feedback that I had at the time from the people was that
they felt that there was performance in the business.
There were people who were not performing to the
standard that would have been expected or that was
necessary for the business at that period of time, and
they felt that there was not enough rigour, not
necessarily in the policy or the process, but that there
wasn't enough rigour in the application of those
processes so that people were held accountable for poor
performance or poor behaviours in the organisation.
Was that something that was specific to that point in
time; do you think it was something that went back
further?
I would suggest that it was exacerbated by the issues
that the business had at that time but I suspect that it
had gone back further, probably due to the constant
change of people in my role, I would imagine. That
wouldn't have been helpful.
Having worked in that role in a number of different
companies, is that something that's typical; do Chief
People Officers tend to move around a lot or is that
something that was a particular problem for the Post
Office?
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Certainly not. I've only worked in two employers
previously, certainly not in either of those
organisations, and it wouldn't be typical, I would
suggest, in an organisation at the size and scale of the
Post Office, no.
In terms of corporate memory, how did that present
itself when you first joined?
The Executive Team had also changed quite frequently and
it was difficult to get consistency in the information
that I was trying to get to understand about the
business to go about my job. So I would say it was
fragmented. There were certain parts of the business
that had had stability, and people were more confident
in those departments and those areas, and there were
other parts of the business where people were less
confident and there had been more change.
I want to ask you about the scope of your role and the
limits to your role. Are you in charge of
recruitment --
Yes.
-- managing those who are currently in the business from
a Human Resources perspective as well?
That's correct, yes.
Onboarding is something we've discussed. How about
other areas of the business: where do you see your role
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as the author and sponsor and it relates to a contract
for PR services. Under the "Executive Summary" it says:
“As a result of events that have occurred since the
start of 2024 [the Post Office] has required
a substantial increase in services from Cardew ..."
Cardew is a PR firm; is that correct?
Itis.
First bullet point:
"... the increased public scrutiny that has arisen
and the knock-on impact this has had on [the Post
Office's] brand; and
"Cardew backfilling the vacancy left by [Post
Office's] departing Director of Communications."
To what extent does your role also involve the
obtaining of contract for services?
So at that period in time, there was no incumbent
Communication or Corporate Affairs Director and I was
taking some line management accountability for that
function to help and support the Executive and Nick,
who -- there was a lot of pressure in the business at
that time.
We'll see, with you and with other witnesses, quite
a lot of expenditure on external firms. There will be
those who query why the Post Office considers it
necessary to contract out those kinds of services;
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as fitting in?
A. In terms of directly managing or in terms of having --
Yes, your responsibilities?
A. I would say the role of the Chief People Officer is to
lead the agenda on People across the organisation. So
that doesn't spend to postmasters but it extends to
anybody that works for and is contracted to work for the
Post Office.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I was going to ask you the direct
question. Presumably you focus on employees of the Post
Office; is that fair?
A. So my role focuses on employees but my view of the
role -- and I think this is very significant and really
very important -- is that the performance of people
employed by the Post Office in the organisation have
a direct impact on the relationship with, and the
confidence, and the trust with postmasters. So I see
the role as intrinsically connected to the postmaster
population, and I think that's extremely important but,
in terms of my direct responsibility, my direct
responsibility is for the colleagues of the Post Office.
MR BLAKE: Can we please bring on to screen POL00448785.
There's no real significance to this particular
document. It's just an example of something I'd like to
look at. This is a Board report of which you are named
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what's your view on that?
A. I understand that and I definitely understand that in
the context of this particular contract, and I think it
might be important to explain some of that context for
the Inquiry.
Q. Please do.
A. At that time, and this was a pre-existing contract that
was already in place and was actually due for retender
this autumn, actually this month coming, at that time --
I think I'd referred to it elsewhere in my statement --
the business was in significant distress, and not only
for the wider business but for the Communications Team
as well. It wasn't a normal time and, you know, the
events -- I think the media attention that the business
was under at that time, the challenges that we had, we'd
had a lot of -- again, a lot of leavers in the team.
It was important, I felt to get support for the team
but I was very conscious at that time that there had
been criticism in the media about the expenditure on
corporate affairs and on PR support for the business.
So I was acutely aware of that at the time of making
this decision.
I think when I extended the contract I was very keen
to point out to Cardew that the caveats for this
extension would mean that there would be as much focus
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‘on internal communication for our colleagues and
postmaster communication because, at that time, the
business was being challenged on its employer brand, so
we were struggling to recruit senior positions,
certainly in my function specifically, because of the
brand of the Post Office at that time, frankly. And I'd
asked Cardew to ensure that there was as much focus, not
just on the Executive, that almost seemed to be less
important than the focus that we needed on internal and
postmaster communications, so they brought in some
specialist support to help with that as well.
How is that going to work going forward?
Well, I think we're over that peak period of the volume
now, and we have recruited -- at the same time we
started a search in the market to replace the Corporate
Affairs and Communications Director. We have now
replaced that position. So I think there'll be more
stability and more consistency.
Going back to the issue of induction, you've given
evidence about your own induction, you've personally
made changes to the induction process. You've set those
out at paragraphs 25 to 33 in your statement. You
address Horizon scandal training. Can you briefly
summarise what that involves?
It was just raising ~ further raising awareness for
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Team in light of their role in matters being
investigated by the Inquiry?
Not to the best of my understanding, no.
Do you think it would be worthwhile having additional
training for those teams or do you think that the
process that you've already put in place is sufficient?
No, I think it may be worthwhile in doing further
training with those teams and any other teams that
require it.
Moving on to the People Plan, can we bring up on to
screen POL00458453. What is the purpose of the
Strategic People Plan?
In this business, probably more than any others, it was
very important to get some formality and some structure
about the way that work was being conducted by the
People Team and I think I referred, and you asked me
earlier, about some of the reason for the chaotic state
of affairs, really, when I joined, and I think this came
down to the fact that there wasn't a clear plan for the
business or for that function, and it was important to
establish the function within the business to get
credibility and get belief in the work that the function
was trying to do, and I think it's extremely important
to have a plan, some focus and some measurable targets
and actions that I and my team can be held to account
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colleagues onboarding, pre-joining the Post Office, so
they had context and we set out a recommended reading
list and reference material for people to do on
a self-taught basis, prior to joining, but then
reinforce that training as people join. So there was
an online training module, which is available to
everybody, that raises awareness of exactly what
happened, right the way through from the judgments and
to subsequent actions that the business has taken.
Was there anything addressing those topics before you
joined, in terms of training?
Yes, there was pre-existing training prior to my joining
I believe, yes.
Have you seen that training?
I have seen it, yes.
What was your view of the quality of it?
At the time that I reviewed it and in the context of the
business, I felt that more rigour was needed in terms of
the amount of material that people needed to read and
comprehend to properly understand their roles before
they joined.
There's been quite a lot of focus in the Inquiry on
issues in the Legal Team and issues in the
Investigations Team. Is there any additional training
that's provided to the Legal Team or the Investigations
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for.
Was this a plan that you personally implemented?
Yes.
Can we please scroll through the plan. Over the page,
please. If we can continue going over and over, we can
stop on the final page, page 7. One matter that has
already been highlighted by Sir Wyn this morning is this
plan doesn't address subpostmasters, does it?
It doesn't.
I think you've said in your witness statement that, and
you've said also this morning, that, in your view,
improving the culture within the Post Office will also
improve the experiences of postmasters. Can you just
expand on that and quite what you mean by that?
I think that's absolutely critical. I think - it's
fairly all encompassing but I would say from onboarding
people properly, making sure that they're sufficiently
trained, making sure that they have awareness of the
issues and the wrongs of the past, making sure that we
have people that work for us that have the right
behaviours and the behaviours that are expected in
an organisation, and all of that gives people the
confidence and capability to do their jobs, and that's
fundamentally important in building trust with
postmasters.
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So, whilst I don't have contractual responsibility
for that population, I believe that my role is to do
everything I can to make sure that the people in the
organisation are sufficiently capable.
A counterargument to that might be that it cements
a them-and-us attitude between employees and
subpostmasters. Whose responsibility would it be to
develop a plan like this to improve the relationship
with subpostmasters?
Specifically, at a detailed level, the Retail Team and
the postmaster facing team would be very much involved,
but I believe it's the job of the Executive Team and of
the Chief Executive, as the ultimate owner, to ensure
that the postmaster relationships continue to be a focus
and priority for the business.
Are you aware of a strategic plan, similar to the
Strategic People Plan, to address subpostmasters?
I haven't seen a plan but I know that there are efforts
in the business to do that, yes.
Could we please bring up on to screen our YouGov expert
report, that's EXPG0000007. Did you see this evidence
being given in person or have you read the report?
I have read the report in my additional documents as the
preparation for the Inquiry.
Can you turn to page 40 where it addresses certain
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plans on proposition or whether they're plans to.
generally support the postmasters, I think we can do
a better job of communicating those plans.
Do those figures surprise you at all?
No.
Having had conversations at Executive level, are they
figures that surprised members of the Executive Team?
I can only speak for my own perception, obviously, but
I would be surprised if the Executive Team didn't expect
there to be dissatisfaction from postmasters about the
relationship, yes.
Thank you. That can come down.
I'm going to move on to the CEO position. The CEO's
appointment and CEO remuneration issues, do they fall
within your remit?
Not directly, no. So the CEO appointment is a matter
for the shareholder and the CEO remuneration is also
a matter for the shareholder, but I am a member of the
Remuneration Committee.
In terms of the CEO appointment being a matter for the
shareholder, what role does the Chief People Officer
have in that?
Obviously I haven't experienced that particular role
being searched for at the Post Office because,
obviously, when I joined, Nick was the Chief Executive
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statements about the leadership Board at the Post
Office. If we look at the first two of those figures in
figure 28, we can see there that, in terms of the
statement that "Generally, Post Office Limited is trying
to improve its relationship with subpostmasters",
there's a net disagree figure of 51 per cent; and,
secondly, a statement "Generally, Post Office Limited
understands the concerns of subpostmasters", a very
strong net disagree of 74 per cent.
It seems as though there's quite a lot of work to do
there in respect of that relationship; would you agree
with that?
I would agree with that, yes.
Is that something that you're aware of having been
discussed at Executive level?
Yes, definitely. It's a constant conversation.
I haven't seen those stats before but seeing them
highlights how much work there is to do. But yes, it is
discussed.
What do you think can be done to fix that relationship?
There is a need for transparent communication and
I think in building any relationship of trust, that's
critically important, so there's more work to do there,
definitely in terms of talking about, you know, the
plans that the business has. Whether they're strategic
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and he was incumbent and has been in the role since I've
been here. I would expect to be consulted, from best
practice perspective, on how we would search for that
role in market. I would expect, given that I've now got
some experience at the Post Office, to be consulted
about what I saw to be the significant issues that
needed to be addressed in that role. So I guess I'm
saying I would expect to be consulted but not
necessarily involved in the decision making about the
appointment.
Who would take those kinds of matters forward? Let's
say we've heard that Mr Read will, in due course, be
stepping back: who will take the new appointment of
a CEO?
I think that will be a matter for Nigel Railton, the new
Chair; Lorna Gratton, as a shareholder representative;
and Amanda Burton.
We've heard quite a lot about the CEO's remuneration.
What is your view of the sufficiency of the CEO
remuneration to attract top talent?
It's quite difficult in terms of comparison, because
I think compared to the wider market in more commercial
businesses, which frankly are the businesses that I've
only had experience in, then currently the remuneration
is probably definitely not upper quartile, I would
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expect. So it isn't significantly high, is what I'm
saying. I think, compared to obviously other
remuneration packages in the public sector, there might
be a different view of that.
That's quite similar evidence to the evidence given by
Amanda Burton, two extremes, but if the Chair looking at
recommendations for the future, ensuring that the Post
Office has the best people leading it, what is your view
of the remuneration package?
I would agree with the statement, firstly, that it's
important. It's critical that the Post Office has the
right leadership team to take it forward. I would
consider it possible to recruit somebody capable and
proficient at the current level of remuneration but
I would also expect that there will be other candidates
probably that we would want to approach and that would
be suitable candidates that may not want to come to the
Post Office, due to their view of the remuneration.
I think it's a job that one has to want to do because
there's a public service to be done and I think that's
very important as well.
Can we please turn to POL00448641. This the
investigation report that was carried out by Marianne
Tutin, a barrister, in relation to complaints made or
raised by Ms Davies. We've addressed it previously,
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message he sent her concerning his dissatisfaction with
his pay in January 2023."
She says:
"Mr Read had been dissatisfied demonstrably with his
remuneration package for some time, with numerous
attempts being made by former Chairs of [the Post
Office] to seek an improved package from the government.
Ms Davies, Mr Read and Mr Staunton discussed the topic
intensively during the first two months of Ms Davies’
employment in particular. Mr Read suggested that he
would resign or take action unless matters improved,
with increasing frequency and feeling, during January
2023.
"From Ms Davies’ perspective, I appreciate that she
must have felt under pressure to improve his pay, given
the intense focus this issue received and Mr Read's
increasingly strong suggestions that he would leave [the
Post Office] or take action. That said, some of that
pressure may well have been self-imposed by Ms Davies in
her desire to succeed where her predecessor,
Ms Williams, had seemingly failed.
"Mr Read's messages were, at timetables, demanding,
impatient and irritable, which he may wish to reflect
upon. However, they were, on balance, not of
an offensive, aggressive or humiliating nature. They
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we're addressing it and Ms Davies has been named because
she's been previously named, for example, in a Select
Committee. We're not going into great death in relation
to each and every allegation but I want to go to two
matters that arise, and the first is relevant on this
issue. You were the commissioning Executive in relation
to this report; is that correct?
I wasn't initially the commissioning Executive.
Somebody else was the commissioning Executive and due --
as the investigation started, due to a conflict issue,
I was asked to take on the role of the commissioning
Executive once the investigation was under way.
What did that involve?
I was part of a panel of -- oversight panel of the
investigation, along with Amanda Burton and Lorna
Gratton.
Thank you. If we could turn to page 5, please. We're
going to stick to the CEO pay position and that is
allegation 2.10. The allegation was that Mr Read
bullied Ms Davies in relation to the messages he sent in
relation to his dissatisfaction with his pay. The
analysis is on page 15. If we could turn to page 15,
I'll just read a few paragraphs from that analysis.
Ms Tutin finds that:
"Mr Read did not bully Ms Davies in respect of the
22
were not of that severity. Furthermore, Mr Read
explained to Ms Davies that his dissatisfaction with pay
pre-dated her time at [the Post Office] and he did not
blame her for the situation. Mr Read spoke to others,
including Mr Staunton, about his dissatisfaction with
his pay in similar terms. There was no
‘finger-pointing’ at Ms Davies.”
If we scroll over the page we can see the
recommendation. She says:
"Nevertheless, [the Post Office] will no doubt wish
to ensure that the future Chair is aware of the history
of requests made to the government in respect of
Mr Read's pay to ensure that his expectations are
managed appropriately moving forward.”
Has that recommendation taken place; have you had
discussions with the Chair?
I haven't had any personal discussions with the Chair.
I would imagine that Amanda Burton would have taken that
up. I haven't discussed it with the Chair.
What's your view of the relationship with government and
having to ask the Department for Business or the
Secretary of State to improve the pay of the CEO?
I think, having come from other corporate businesses,
where we still would have to answer to shareholders,
that is in keeping with my experience. I think it's
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important that there is strong governance and rigour
around how executive pay, as well as the Chief Executive
but including the Chief Executive, is managed. So it's
important. 1 - there are occasions where I feel that
we don't maybe have as much autonomy as we ought to have
to make decisions regarding pay at a more junior level,
but I think at the level of the Executive and the Chief
Executive it's important that that is in place and that
that rigour is applied, yes.
When you say at a more junior level, who do you have to
obtain authorisation from in respect of the pay of more
junior employees?
So that's determined by threshold of the value of the
pay, as opposed to the individual. So it's individuals
over a certain level we have to seek approval for, which
is mainly confined to the Executive and the Senior
Leadership Team.
What change would you make to that?
I don't think there are any further changes to make to
that at the moment but, if we did want to go outside of
those parameters, for example, if we were looking for
somebody new to come into the business, we might have to
get approval for that but there aren't any current
changes in plans for that team of people.
While we're on this report, if we could perhaps turn
25
please turn to paragraphs 29 and 30, those are passages
I'd like to look at. Paragraph 29 says:
"Consideration should be given as to whether
quality, diversity and inclusion training should be
offered to Non-Executive Directors, including the future
interim or permanent Chair. Alternatively, such
training could be a mandatory requirement for any
[Non-Executive Directors] involved in external or
internal recruitment processes, where they are acting as.
a representative of [the Post Office].”
Just pausing there, is that something that falls
within your area of responsibility?
Yes, it does fall within my area of responsibility.
Is it something that you have taken steps to address?
Yes, I have.
Can you briefly summarise the steps that you have taken
in that regard?
So we have, after several months’ search, actually we
have just appointed a specialist in EDI for the
business, which I felt was critical, who reports into
the Talent and Capability Director, who is ultimately
responsible for this area and will be producing training
for every member of the Post Office team, including the
Non-Executive Directors and the Board.
25 Q. Thank you. Paragraph 30 says:
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back to page 5. I'll address this now just because
we're on the report, and I don't want to have to return
to the report but, if we scroll up to the top, we have
the allegation relating to Mr Staunton. It's allegation
2.7:
"During a meeting on 25 January 2023, Henry
Staunton, former Chair, referred to women as ‘pains in
the arses’ and at the same meeting, said of one
candidate for the RemCo Chair position, words to the
effect of 'she doesn't look coloured, where does she
come from?’ and in view of her age referred to the same
candidate as a ‘girl' (when other women were referred to
as ‘ladies’
If we please could turn to page 12 and 13 there's
the analysis of that allegation. As I said, this isn't
the forum to investigate the particular allegations but
I'm looking at the business's response to the findings
of this report. Ms Tutin sets out the allegations there
at 27. At 28 she says:
“Mr Staunton's remarks were discriminatory on
grounds of race and sex, and therefore not in accordance
with the Dignity at Work policy. The remarks go well
beyond his characterisation of them as potentially
‘politically incorrect’ statements."
She sets out her reasoning below. If we could
26
"I was also concerned by remarks made by Mr Staunton
in respect of his outdated view of the Speak Up process
and investigations (the latter of which he said,
notably, were a ‘cancer’ in the organisation), and the
impact such views can have on workplace culture. It was
very troubling that those remarks were made by the
(then) Chair of an organisation that is grappling with
the most serious of institutional failings. In looking
for a new Chair, it should be a key consideration for
[the Post Office] and [the Department for Business] to
assess whether prospective candidates have good
experience of helping to foster a workplace culture in
which any concerns relating to [for example] EDI,
discrimination or whistleblowing can be raised openly
without fear of intimidation or retribution.”
The current Chair is only an Interim Chair; is there
a process ongoing for the recruitment of a new Chair?
I believe there is a permanent -- or there will be
a permanent process being run, yes.
In respect of paragraph 30, are those areas within your
area of responsibility?
Not strictly for the recruitment of the Chair but this
is one of the areas that I would expect, obviously, to
have some involvement in, given my previous experience,
yes.
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Are you aware of that process or anything similar having
been undertaken in respect of Mr Railton before he was
appointed?
I'm not aware of that taking place, no.
Thank you. That can come down.
At paragraph 164 in your witness statement, you have
said that Mr Staunton had asked you to close down the
investigation. Can you assist us with your account in
respect of that, please?
Yes, he had asked me previously, or talked to me
previously about investigations more generally in the
business. So I was aware that he had a dim view of the
processes, and he did, in a comment to me, also use the
terminology that it was a "cancer in the organisation".
Specifically related to the investigation into Jane
Davies, he asked me to close down the investigation and
do everything that I possibly could to make sure that
that was -- that that happened.
Close down the investigation into Mr Read, into himself,
‘or more broadly?
So, at the original time, there were several
conversations about this. At the initial conversation,
the investigation as we knew it only related to Mr Read
because the -- some of the comments had not been
particularised until the Employment Tribunal claim was
29
My view was that that request was self-serving on
Mr Staunton's behalf.
Did you hear Mr Staunton's evidence to the Inquiry?
Yes, I did.
What is your view now?
My view remains the same.
Thank you. I'm going to move on to the Group Executive
and the Senior Executive Group structure.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Just before you do -- I don't want
A.
details -- but it follows from what you said, I think,
that Ms Davies brought an Employment Tribunal claim
against the Post Office, presumably?
Yes.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Has that been concluded?
A
No, it hasn't, I think --
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Fine then, I won't --
A
My understanding is that itis filed but not yet heard,
sir.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right, that's fine. Let the Employment
Tribunal do its work.
MR BLAKE: In respect of the Group Executive, you have
identified issues with the Group Executive before it
became the Senior Executive group. In paragraph 77 of
your witness statement, you have said that it was
untypical of senior leadership groups that you've been
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laid. Then the claims were particularised and I became
aware that they pertained to Mr Staunton, yes. So, at
that time, he was asking me to close down the
investigation into Nick Read.
From your understanding and from what you heard and saw,
were you of the belief that he understood that the
investigation was also into his own conduct?
So, certainly after November, when the Employment
Tribunal claim was particularised, then yes, I was of
that belief.
Did you have any specific conversation about the
investigation into him with Mr Staunton?
So he didn't refer -- Mr Staunton didn't refer to his
own investigation or the elements that extended to him,
specifically, but he did persist in asking me to close
down the investigation and it was my belief at the time
that the motivation to do that was not as I had been
told by Mr Staunton.
What do you mean by that?
So he -- sorry, Mr Staunton said that it was in respect
of his concern about Nick Read's wellbeing, and I didn't
believe that to be true.
What opinion did you have?
Sorry, could you repeat the question?
What was your view?
30
part of; can you expand on that for us, please?
I would say specifically the lack of experience and
particularly in the context that the Post Office had at
that time. So training, experience and, whilst --
I think I say this in my statement -- whilst there was
not a shortage of commitment, it was a matter of
capability.
Where in particular were the problems?
I would say particularly in the retail-facing functions.
But it wasn't confined to that. It wasn't confined to
just one individual; it was a general view that I held.
Is that the function that interact with subpostmasters?
Yes, it is.
What would you say is the cause of that problem?
I think it's largely down to selection of the individual
for the role against the requirements of the role. So
there probably was a shortfall in terms of experience or
capability of the individuals in the job, and then, as
a business, we probably didn't react quickly enough to
some of the areas of underperformance that had started
to appear and manifest, particularly given the
circumstances that happened earlier this year.
Who in particular was failing in that regard?
So it would be the direct leaders of the people in
question, the Executive Team. Ultimately, of course,
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the Chief Executive has accountability for performance
in the organisation. I would say, though, that for the
year before I joined -- I know I have repeated this
several times -- but the lack of having strong People
representation in that group is undoubtedly going to
have consequences on the performance in the
organisation.
I know you've said that it isn't just individuals but
I think we're getting the impression that there is
certainly at least an individual who, in your view, was
underperforming; who was that individual?
It was the Chief Retail Officer.
Who was that?
It was Martin Roberts.
Thank you. You've also given the example of being asked
to give an opinion on a matter which was not within your
area of expertise; are there other examples of failings
in that regard?
For me individually, no. I recall one example, I think,
of abstaining from a decision because I felt that
I wasn't qualified to do so but it's my belief that, at
that time, there was a reluctance for people to not say
when they didn't understand, and feel obliged to make
a contribution to things that they maybe weren't
necessarily qualified or had the experience to
33
instigated by you, the change of structure, to the
Senior Executive Group?
So I think, before I joined, Nick and Owen Woodley, who
was the Deputy Chief Executive, had been considering
whether or not the structure was right anyway, but
I would say, on joining, and having conversations with
Owen, and probably having a fresher perspective, would
have instigated the action that we then took, yes.
What were the principal structural changes to the group?
We narrowed down the group, which may seem odd, given
that the business was under pressure at the time, and it
was quite complicated, but to speed up the
decision-making processes, it felt important to confine
that group, the most senior in the organisation, to the
people that had the relevant skills and experience to do
those jobs.
So we thinned the group quite substantially and we
were also at that time -- it wasn't the only reason but
we were also, at that time, concerned about the
bandwidth of the Chief Executive, of Nick, in terms of
the number of direct reports that he had but also the
size of the job that he had to hand as well and, as
I said, it wasn't the only consideration, but it was one
of the considerations.
Looking at the problems that you identified with the
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contribute to.
At paragraph 79 of your statement, you said that members
of the wider management population felt they couldn't
trust the Group Executive; can you expand on that for
us, please?
Yes, I think intuitively -- and this is not factually
based, but intuitively when I started, I detected that
that was the case, and I ran a couple of sort of
voluntary forum groups, not all of the representatives
from the senior leadership population came, but they
were quite well represented, and I did several of them
over my first few months, and members of that team told
me that at the time, and members of my own team had also
said the same thing. So there was consistency in what
I was being told.
Were there particular individuals who they felt they
couldn't trust?
So there weren't -- they didn't cite particular
individuals. It was the -- it was kind of commonly
referred to as the GE, as it was at that time, the
General Executive Team.
I think you've said that was quite a big team at that
time --
Yes.
~-is that right? You changed the structure. Was it
34
original group, if we take the lack of deference to
Subject Matter Experts as one of the complaints, has
that been overcome by these structural changes?
Yes, it has, yes ... I think, as always, the dynamics
and the behaviour of a group running a business has to
be constantly under review, and we have to have the
right checks and balances in place to make sure that
that is the case, but I feel confident that it's far
better than it was when I joined, yes.
Taking the other issue, the lack of trust, has that
issue been resolved?
Trust is a very difficult thing to measure, of course.
Yes, I think to a great extent it has, and from the
conversations that I've since had with the senior
leadership population, I think they feel more confident
that the behaviours of that group, the Executive Group,
are in keeping with what they would expect and I think
that has given people confidence that that change has
definitely been made, yes.
Can we please turn to POL00446673. This is a "Strategic
Executive Group Report" of 1 May this year. It has you
down there as the sponsor of the report. Can you assist
us with the background of this report, please?
Yes, this the full report pre-the Board report of the
colleague engagement survey that was taken earlier this
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year.
Are you aware of issues as to whether sufficient
information was passed to the Board based on this
report?
So I feel very confident that this report, and the
report that went to the Board, is what would consider to
be best practice, and that's what I've been told since.
So I'm confident in the quality and in the
comprehensiveness of the information that was given to
the Executive and to the Board.
Did the report accurately reflect the results of the
surveys, for example?
Yes, yes it does.
If we could turn over the page, please, we have the
headline results there. I am just going to read couple
of them. Paragraph 3 says:
"The overall outcome report was shared with the
Strategic Executive Group on 23 April 2024. It has also
been shared with the 'Create New Confidence’ Leadership
Team group.”
Can you just assist us with who the Create New
Confidence Leadership Team group are or what their
purpose is?
This is -- at the start of the year, after changing the
Strategic Executive Group, we wanted to give the Senior
37
to get change executed in the business or to make things
happen and the political behaviour, my belief is that
would refer back to the references to the general
Executive Group in terms of the political behaviour
there, maybe.
But I think it's really centred around how difficult
it is, the processes that the team have to go through to
get things done.
It seems as though the solution might be changes to the
job and organisational design; is that something that
has taken place?
It's something that's in the process of taking place,
yes.
How do you foresee that happening?
So I think there needs to be more clear lines of
accountability and demarcation between responsibilities,
so people are very clear on the elements of their role,
which are within the confines of what they're
responsible for, and that there's clarity, but also that
we have roles that are duplicative in the business as
well, and that causes confusion and also gets in the way
of getting things done.
So I think there's a need to organise work better,
simply put, and to have the right people in the right
jobs.
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Leadership Team some key focus areas to work on and this
was one of the focus groups, so they were the group that
were responsible for giving us ideas and communicating
the survey but giving ideas in terms of further
improvements, yes. So they were a cohort group within
the existing management population.
If we scroll down, please, I'd like to look at 4(d). It
says:
"The level of strain felt by senior colleagues at
Post Office is substantially different to the level of
strain felt by more junior colleagues and this is
impacting their wellbeing. The predominant descriptions
of the culture for junior colleagues are ‘friendly’ and
‘supportive’, whilst for senior colleagues they are
‘bureaucratic’ and ‘political’. The barriers which have
the highest impact on strain have decreased for junior
colleagues, whilst increasing for senior colleagues.
Proximity of senior colleagues to governance processes
is likely a cause of strain and job and [organisational]
design should be reviewed for senior colleagues."
Can you summarise for us what the issue here is?
There's quite a lot to summarise here, I am just trying
to think of how can I best say this as succinctly as
possible. So I think the comments on bureaucracy apply
to the levels of process that those people have to apply
38
Who's taking that forward?
That's my responsibility to take forward.
Do you have a timeline for implementation?
We -- we're doing the work at the moment to -- I mean,
constantly evaluating the structure of the business,
like, I guess, in any other business, but we're sort of
specifically looking at that over the next -- we've
started and we're looking at that over the next few
months, yes.
Can we please turn over the page and look at (f). (f)
says:
"Poor internal communications are driving a lack of
colleague confidence in both Post Office and senior
leadership. 43% of colleagues suggest that the one
thing they would do to make Post Office a better place
to work is to either improve internal communication’ or
‘be more honest and transparent’. In most businesses,
suggestions to make the business a better place to work
tend to centre on improving pay and benefits or
improving progression opportunities, so the overwhelming
feedback on communications at Post Office suggests this
is a real area of opportunity."
Can you assist us with that?
It's surprising that it's so important. So I think that
paints the picture of what people's expectations of us
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are as a leadership team, and is giving us very clear
signposting, and emphasising the need to communicate,
I think with colleagues and with postmasters. So
I think it's very important that we take heed of that.
Are you aware of work that's ongoing in that respect?
Yes, work has definitely started in that respect.
Can you point to any concrete steps that you think will
change that concern?
We have regular, every Wednesday, we have a regular
communication that Nick, in the past, has led, and now
Neil Brocklehurst has taken over from, where we do
a weekly communication on business performance, changes
that we're making, there might be issues on some
elements of the People Plan that we want to communicate,
or colleague wellbeing, for example, and they're
attended physically with the people that are in the
office and then there's a broadcast.
Then every four weeks we do a fuller, more
comprehensive meeting, again led by the Executive Team,
and, at that point, people are able to ask questions of
the Executive Team or each other, frankly, and most
recently -- and this has been a really positive step
forward -- we've had postmasters as well attending those
meetings and speaking to the Post Office team and the
Post Office colleagues about their life as a postmaster.
41
the meetings that I think you're referring to, yes,
I have been present definitely with him at a meeting,
yes.
He has suggested that information was given to him about
the new NBIT system but that didn't mention a number of
concerns that we've heard about at this Inquiry, about
the quality of the NBIT build and about cost. Do you
think those meetings with the NFSP have been as candid
as they should have been?
Apologies, I don't recall that specific conversation
happening, I'm afraid, at that meeting at all. I think
I can talk confidently about the intent going into those
meetings, and I know Nick had asked the whole of the
Executive to try where we possibly could to sort of show
representation, and generally to meet and listen to the
views of the Voice of the Postmaster, and the NFSP, and
the CWU. So we all attended for that reason.
So I think the intent going in there definitely
would have been to have open dialogue and to take
constructive challenge from those groups of people about
how we could better run the business. But I can't
recall the specifics of that meeting, I'm sorry.
I appreciate that NBIT is not your area of
responsibility but, looking at NBIT; do you think that
there is sufficient transparency about the future in
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Is that something that's formal, that's going to happen
every so often?
There's a plan to make it happen regularly and often,
and to do more in that respect as well.
Does that have a particular name, the group that met
with the subpostmasters?
We haven't -- I don't think from memory -- sorry --
there may be, I'm not familiar with it having a name but
I think there's a strong intent -- and our Director of
Corporate Affairs and Communications is taking
responsibility for making that happen.
Thank you. That can come down.
At paragraph 99 of your witness statement, you have
said that there's a perception that the organisation is
not as open as it could be; is that a perception or is
that reality?
There is definitely work to do, so I think there is
a sense of reality but I also think that -- yeah, sorry,
I think it is a reality, yes. I think we could be more
open.
To take an example, Calum Greenhow of the NFSP has given
evidence to the Inquiry about a meeting on 29 May this
year. I think you were present at that meeting; is that
right?
I've been present at a couple of meetings. If they're
42
regards to that system, from what you've seen and heard
within the business?
I think, because of what I've seen and heard, and
listening to the view from postmasters and other people,
I think there is definitely opportunity to improve the
‘openness and transparency of the progress, yes.
I'd like to turn to an anonymous letter. Can we please
bring up on screen POL00448411. This is a letter that
you will have seen, it's from a group of people who have
called themselves Post Office whistleblowers. It was
sent to a number of people, including the Chair, Members
of Parliament and the Inquiry.
In the third paragraph it says:
"Since March [the Post Office] has conducted 2
opinion surveys, one directed at postmasters, the other
at [Post Office] employees. Both results are shocking
and serve to demonstrate that the culture within [the
Post Office] is significantly worsening (despite
[Mr] Read confirming in a Parliamentary committee
meeting in January that ‘improvements in culture were
being made’). This is not true. We are deeply
frustrated that despite several requests to see the full
results, we are being denied access."
Is this something that fell within your area of
responsible?
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So the postmaster survey, not, but the colleague survey,
yes, that's within my area of responsibility.
Are you aware of this specific allegation?
I wasn't aware until I saw this in preparation for the
Inquiry very recently. I didn't know that that was the
allegation.
Can you speak to it at all in terms of whether you're
aware of any requests to see the full results and not
being granted?
Yes, I attended the Board meeting to present the results
on the colleague survey and, at the same time, the team
that were responsible for the postmaster survey also
attended at the same meeting. So I happened to stay for
the whole session, which was very comprehensive. We
covered the detail of the postmaster survey -- this is
not the YouGov survey, sorry, this is the internal
survey -- and the colleague survey, in detail with the
Board.
We'd also covered both of those same things at our
Executive Group meeting beforehand and we have fully
communicated the results, certainly of the colleague
survey -- I can speak with conviction to that element --
through the business at every level, and we've been very
comprehensive, so we haven't sanitised any of those
results, We've provided full and comprehensive detail
45
How would you respond to that allegation?
I mean, it's totally untrue. As I said, I was on
a management development programme with Nick 20 years
ago. We genuinely have had no contact since, and that
is particularly of relevance because, at the time that
I was at McColl's, Nick was at the Nisa group and there
could have been an opportunity then, given that I was
an executive member of the team at McColl's, for us to
have contact and, even at that point, we didn't make
contact at all. I had no contact with him.
Coincidentally, I had written an email to Nick the
week before I got approached by MBS Executive. I had no
idea there were any vacancies in the Post Office
leadership team but, by mutual contact from Tesco
suggested to me that I wasn't working at the time and
that I would be very helpful to Post Office in some way,
shape or form, and that I should contact Nick, and
suggested that I contacted him. I wrote him an email,
and I actually said in the email, "I'm not sure whether
you'll remember me". I didn't even know that Nick would
remember who I was, 20 years later.
So to read that my appointment was less than cloaked
in integrity is disturbing. So I was approached
formally -- I was interviewed formally as a candidate
for that job genuinely, and I had had no contact with
47
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to every business leader, to then share with their --
onward share with their teams.
We have protected anonymity in the smaller groups
from the verbatim comments but, frankly, the verbatim
comments roll up into the themes of the survey anyway,
so there's no chance of any ambiguity about the results
of the survey.
Thank you.
The letter then goes on to raise a concern about
people being managed by Mr Read. If we scroll down, we
can see a complaint about those who are said to have
conflicts of interest and we'll get on to Project
Phoenix and the Past Roles Project shortly. If we go
over the page, please, there's just something that's
said about you that I'd like to give you an opportunity
to respond on. It's the second paragraph. I think
we're going to actually have a version of this that
doesn't have the redactions on but it doesn't matter for
today's purpose. It says:
"Who are the new executives coming on board too?
Karen McEwan is well known to Read; they worked together
and have kept in touch over the years. How she got
appointed within weeks of her predecessor departing,
tells us this is another cover up and Read is simply
surrounding himself with his ‘own’ type."
46
Nick over that time.
I also don't know that it would have been
problematic if I had been in contact with Nick.
I wouldn't -- I wouldn't have been ashamed about that
and it certainly wasn't a cover-up but, genuinely, we
hadn't been in touch for a 20-year period.
Thank you very much, that clarifies that matter. Can
that letter please come down.
Moving on to Non-Executive Directors. What is your
view, if you have one, on the balance between the number
of executives and the number of Non-Executive Directors
‘on the Board?
So, in terms of the number, it feels appropriate and
it's in keeping with my previous experience.
Thank you. In respect of the Postmaster Non-Executive
Directors, do you consider that that works, in
principle?
That the role works?
Yes.
I think it's fundamentally important and it definitely
works, insofar as both of those individuals give a good,
honest, representation of issues mattering most to
postmasters. So I do, I think the role is invaluable,
and I think, in other organisations, other Boards should
work hard to take the same principles.
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Do you have any concerns about any conflicts of interest
in that respect?
No.
Are there other ways in which you consider that
subpostmasters or subpostmaster experiences can be built
in to the business in some way?
Yes, so we have a Postmaster Experience Director, who is
a recent appointment, and he's a serving postmaster, and
he's doing really well in bringing to life the issues
that are live and happening for postmasters and, in
fact, he's been instrumental in bringing the postmaster
to the meetings that I was referring to earlier. So
that's a role that I think we should continue to heavily
focus on and heavily champion, and I think, as
an Executive Team, it's very, very important that we
have a close and trusting relationship with him and that
he feels he's able to talk to us and tell us about
issues that he might be experiencing in getting things
done in the business. I think that's really important.
Do you know who instigated that role?
Sorry?
Do you know who instigated that particular role, the
Postmaster Experience Director?
I'm not entirely sure who did, no.
And that's Mr Eldridge?
49
In terms of whether this is -- happens in practice or --
Yes.
Yes, so that is as I see it in practice, yes.
So who holds the other roles?
So the Engagement Director role is held with Tracy
Marshall and the Group Chief Retail Officer was Martin
Roberts but, obviously, we've made the changes to that
function so, temporarily, Pete Marsh is stepping up as
interim cover for the Chief Retail Officer role.
You've previously in your evidence expressed some
concerns about the previous holder of that role. Do you
have confidence in the new individual who holds the
role, or is stepping up to the role?
Yes.
Thank you. I'm going to move on to another topic but
that might be a moment to take our morning break?
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: All right. What time shall we resume?
MR BLAKE: If we come back in 15 minutes, so 11.35. Thank
you.
(11.17 am)
(A short break)
(11.36 am)
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
I'm going to move on to cultural issues.
Paragraph 70 of your witness statement, you have
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Itis, yes.
‘Are you aware how he manages to balance working as.
a subpostmaster with also taking on this role at the
Post Office?
So every conversation encounter that I've had with him
he's very positive and he's never said that he's not
able to cope with that, and I think he seems really
capable and he's got a really good, both commercial
background and a postmaster background. So I'm
confident that he would tell me if he wasn't able to
balance it and he does seem able to do that, yes.
Is he in some way supported by a team at the Post Office
or does he attend on his own?
I think he wants to retain a degree of independence,
I think but, also, he would be supported by the Retail
Team, and I think he has a good relationship with them,
yes.
Perhaps we could bring up on to screen POL00458458.
I think this was the advertisement or job description
for that role. If we could scroll over, please, and if
we could look at page 5, if you could scroll down,
there's a section there that says:
"Where does this role fit with the rest of the
team?"
Can you assist us with that, please?
50
referred to the Behaviours Framework that was launched
and I'd just like to bring up onto screen, if I may,
your statement WITN11360100, page 24. Is the Behaviours
Framework something that you are responsible for?
When I consider the formulation of it and the
communication, yes. In terms of overall accountability
I think the behaviours are the responsibility of
everybody in the business.
Thank you. If we could bring up page 24 of your witness
statement, please. It's paragraph 71. You say at 71:
"One of the four key behaviours is ‘own the
outcome’, which I am confident will help drive the
changes in ownership and accountability we need to see.
The other behaviours are 'be curious’, 'move it forward’
and 'back each other’, all of which are critical to
cultural change."
To a group of lawyers that sounds like a lot of
words and not much else. Can you assist us with really
what that means in practice?
Yes, I appreciate that that doesn't read literally.
I think "owning the outcome" means for people to take
responsible and accountability, which is obviously
critically important, given the history of the Post
Office, to take their job seriously, to fulfil it to the
best of their capability, and to make the decisions and
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‘own the consequences of decisions that they take.
In terms of "be curious", this is particularly
relevant because the Post Office has been accused of,
and understandably so, a lack of curiosity, a lack of
seeking to find the truth. In any circumstances, even
when seeking the truth is difficult, it's very important
that everyone in the organisation asks questions, feels
comfortable to question people, particularly when
they're more senior, actually.
"Moving it forward" is the acknowledgement that
sometimes good is better than perfect and what I mean by
that is there is sometimes -- I think that sometimes
stifles performance, so people feel that everything has
to be perfect and everything is going to be scrutinised,
and rightly so in some cases, but it does sometimes
hinder progress, and we wanted to encourage people to
feel that they were giving their best and their best was
good enough.
And "backing each other" is fairly straightforward
but that means to support each other through times of
difficulty and challenge.
Issues of culture are quite difficult to monitor. Is
there a way in which achieving those behaviours can be
monitored?
Yes, we're taking that extremely seriously. So rather
53
a bigger pay package and more responsibility, as these
are the individuals leading an organisation in a hugely
and very critical time of change. So very important.
That can come down. Thank you.
In terms of culture towards subpostmasters, we've
seen in evidence the letter from Mr Read to the Lord
Chancellor in January 2024, regarding the potential
exoneration of subpostmasters. Is that a letter that
has been discussed with you at all?
Is it possible to remind me, so I can see --
I don't have the number to hand but it's a letter in
which Mr Read set out the number of appeals that the
Post Office was likely not to contest as against the
higher number of those that would be contested. If it's
not something that you're aware of --
It's not something that I remember at all, sorry.
-- that's absolutely fine. Can we in that case, please,
turn to POL00448653.
Apologies, I've got a completely blank screen. Is that
normal? There's nothing happening on my screen, it's
completely black.
Has it changed now or is it still black?
There's nothing here.
MR BLAKE: Sir, we may need to pause for a moment while
somebody has a look at it. It might just be a matter of
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than a series of words -- and I appreciate when you see
this in a statement and on a piece of paper, it can look
like a halfhearted time promise, but we are -- we're
very serious about it. So right the way through from
ensuring that all of these four behaviours are embedded
in our recruitment practices, for example.
So we've got some -- a framework to help people who
are interviewing, to seek out these behaviours and to
make sure that the people that we recruit to the Post
Office have the right values and the right behaviours,
and actually, that's arguably as important, if not more
important, sometimes, than the technical expertise, if
we have the right people, particularly on curiosity, for
example. So we're building it into the recruitment
practices and processes that we have.
We are building it into progression through the
business. So I think in the past I refer to people
maybe ending up in jobs that they weren't totally
capable of doing. That's critically important and, even
if that means letting people down when they think
they're going to be capable but they're not, whether we
have to have more scrutiny as an organisation on that.
So as well as subject matter expertise, we'll be looking
for these behaviours, and identifying those behaviours
and individuals before we promise anyone a bigger job,
54
turning it on. I'm not sure where the switch is there,
I'm afraid. (Pause)
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: It was working before the break?
THE WITNESS: It was working perfectly before. It was
working up until a few seconds ago.
MR BLAKE: Perhaps we can take a five-minute break.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: We can. Do you actually want to us go in
and out? Everybody else can go out if they want to but
all this coming and froing, I think I'll just sit here,
if it's only five minutes. I'll conduct an experiment
as to whether you can resist talking to each other.
(Pause)
I'll let you know if can't see anything properly but at
the moment I've got the screen back, thank you.
Could we please then turn to POL00448653, and that's
what we know as the Project Pineapple email, over the
page, please. Was this something you saw around about
mid-January of this year?
Yes, it is.
If we could scroll down, please, I'd just like to take
you through a few of the complaints that were set out in
this email just to see whether any of those fall in your
responsibility and what has been taken forward and what
hasn't.
So if we start with the first paragraph, there are
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the concerns expressed regarding Mr Taylor and a feeling
by management, and even members of the Board, that still
persisted that those postmasters who have not come
forward to be exonerated were guilty as charged.
That's a similar complaint to the complaint about
the letter that I was asking you about that you hadn't
seen.
Yes.
In respect of that particular allegation, not just
against Mr Taylor, but a broader allegation that
subpostmasters are seen as guilty as charged who haven't
come forward to be exonerated, are there any steps that
you personally have taken in that regard?
I mean, obviously, as a member of the Executive Team,
I take that very seriously and it definitely isn't
a feeling or -- it’s just definitely not something that
I'm familiar with at my time in the Post Office. I've
never heard -- never heard that and I don't believe --
to the best of my knowledge, I don't believe that
anybody that I work with in the organisation feels that
that's true, that that's the case at all.
If we look at the second paragraph, there's a complaint
there about Mr Roberts and certain members of his team.
I think you've mentioned Mr Roberts already. Is that
a matter that you have personally taken forward?
57
Is it something that you have taken any actions in
respect of?
I think the action that I am and have taken is more
all-encompassing action to improve the culture in the
business more generally and to ensure that the Executive
and management and everybody lives to the values and the
behaviours. We haven't -- I haven't specifically taken
any action in respect of Ben Foat, no.
If we scroll over the page, please, there's another
complaint there regarding Postmaster Non-Executive
Director membership on all committees, including RemCo;
what's your view of that?
I think Amanda Burton referenced it in her evidence.
I think it is helpful to have representation of all
Non-Executive Directors at some of the committee
meetings, yes.
In terms of RemCo, I think you've said -- are you
a member or do you just attend --
I don't have any voting accountability but I attend the
meetings. I am responsible and accountable for
preparing the papers for that meeting.
In your view, would Postmaster Non-Executive Director
membership of that committee be helpful or unhelpful?
It would be helpful.
Thank you. Could we please turn to POL00448599 and
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So the subsequent investigation into this complaint was
handled by a member of my team, yes.
Is Mr Roberts still in the organisation?
No, he isn't.
Thank you. Is that a result of action that has been
taken?
No, it isn't, it's ...
The next paragraph is a complaint about the power
wielded by Mr Foat, General Counsel. Is that something
that you have personally been involved in?
This particular part of the statement wasn't totally new
to me because Henry Staunton had mentioned this
previously when I was having a conversation with him
about the investigatory processes that were in place at
the time. So I think that sentiment was not as much as
a surprise as some of the other elements of the letter.
Is it something that you have looked into and is it
something you feel action needs to be taken or has been
taken?
So I -- yes, we are and have looked into it. Every
element of this was subject to a very thorough
investigation, so we've broken this down and have
investigated on all of the matters. As I said, this
view that was held at the time about Ben Foat was
something that I was definitely familiar with, though ~
58
we're now looking at the fallout from the sharing of
that Project Pineapple email. If we scroll down to the
bottom of the page, Mr Foat has emailed Nick Read and he
says:
"The Project Pineapple email contained very serious
allegations of which I have not been aware. Given the
circumstances, I would be conflicted.”
Do you know what the context of this email is?
How I read it at the time, and looking at it now, my
belief -- but I don't know this to be the case but
I think you'd have to ask Ben Foat, but my belief here
is that there are inferences made about his conduct and
his treatment of postmasters which, when he read the
email, were the first time that he had been made aware
that there were -- there was a perception that there
were any allegations against him. So I think the point
he's making here is that he didn't know but now that he
does know, clearly he wouldn't be -- we wouldn't be able
to carry on with the investigation because he would be
in a position of conflict. So I think that's the point
that he's making.
Thank you. He says:
"Karen and Ben T -- it would be helpful to have
a conversation with you."
Did you have a conversation with Mr Foat about the
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Project Pineapple issue?
Yes, I did have the conversation on the day that the
email came out, yes.
Can you assist us with what was discussed?
So he was -- Ben, sorry -- was very distressed.
I think on that day and at that time there was a lot
of anxiety in the business, and particularly with the
individuals that had been -- had been in receipt of the
email and who were named in the email. Because of the
sensitivity, at that time, Owen Woodley and I decided
that we would take responsibility and take control of
the situation, effectively, and therefore we were the
only two members of the Executive that were in contact
with people and we sort of divided responsibility,
effectively, to call those people to try and -- (1) to
try to settle them down, bearing in mind that we'd got
to worry about business continuity, and there was
already -- I mean, that period in time was our most
critical period of time, and we were all very concerned
about people's wellbeing but also about running the
business.
So I had the conversation with Ben and he was very
distressed.
Did you speak to the Subpostmaster Non-Executive
Directors around this time?
61
to the investigation. So she set about doing that work
in the beginning of February, yes.
Can we please turn to the bottom of page 15 and we can
see the summary of her findings. She says:
"There is a consistent theme of lack of effective
communication and updates into the Board sufficient for
Saf and Elliot to fully understand some of the issues
raised, how they are being handled and in some instances
why things have taken so long."
If we scroll down:
"Based on this investigation, I do not believe there
is a toxic culture towards [postmasters] still prevalent
within Post Office or that there is an intentional
attempt from current employees to prevent the
[Postmaster Non-Executive Directors] from having access
to relevant information. However, I can understand why
some of the situations outlined by Elliot and Saf could
be perceived in this way and the recommendations will
address the need to improve flow of information to the
Board as well as clarify the scope of the [Postmaster
Non-Executive Director] role including what is
appropriate in terms of engagement outside of the Board
with subsequent engagement on this to all relevant
stakeholders."
The reference in that conclusion in not believing
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I did but not immediately. So I think it was at the
beginning of the following week. I think this happened,
from memory, on a Friday, and I was in contact with Ben,
I remember, on that day and then, subsequently, Martin
Roberts over that weekend. And I spoke to Saf --
I don't think I -- I don't recall speaking to Elliot but
I spoke to Saf on -- very early in the beginning of the
following week, yes.
Thank you. Could we please turn to POL00460000. This
is the investigation report that was carried out by
Nicola Marriott into this particular issue. Was this
something that you commissioned or asked to be carried
out?
Yes, so at the time of the Project Pineapple email, the
middle of January, it was clear that, once the dust had
settled and we had made sure that the people that were
named were as composed as they could be, it was obvious
that we needed to take some action, and we decided at
the time that Nicola Marriott would be the most suitable
person. She's extremely experienced and very thorough
and has a very good perspective of the criticality of
postmasters in the business as well, which I thought was
important.
So she would understand, probably better than
anybody, the need for a kind of very rigorous approach
62
that there is a toxic culture towards postmasters still
prevalent within the Post Office, do you think this
investigation was sufficient to have reached that
conclusion?
I would say, in reading and analysing that particular
line again, that is quite an all-encompassing statement,
yes. I think -- trusting that Nicola will have had the
best intention in doing this investigation, I think from
the interviews she conducted and the people that she
spoke to, I think she's there, from the best of your
knowledge, stating what she believes to be right. But
I think it would be impossible, with hindsight, from the
extent of that investigation, to be able to make that
comment with conviction, like I say.
We've seen recently, for example, the investigation into
Mr Jacobs and correspondence from an investigator to him
as part of that investigation; did you hear that
evidence?
No, not specifically but I am aware of it.
Do you think that there are still potentially wider.
cultural issues that might mean that, in fact, to some
extent, there is a toxic culture towards postmasters.
still prevalent in some aspects of the business?
Not to the best of my knowledge but I do believe that
there is still a lack of capability in the organisation
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that needs to be addressed, and I believe that there
is -- there are also still issues with the
infrastructure and the operating model of the Post
Office, which I think I talked earlier about
accountability being in the right places. I don't think
that's helpful and I do also think that maybe the
communication isn't as transparent as it could be, not
for any malicious intent but either because of those
capability issues or because people are still worried
about the consequences of saying things that may be
controversial or admitting that things are not right.
So I do think that there is a -- still that -- that
feeling within some members of the Post Office colleague
population, yes.
Thank you. At paragraphs 153 to 157 of your witness
statement you have raised an issue and you say it wasn't
minuted as part of that investigation. Can you assist
us, insofar as you're able to, with what that issue is?
If I could just wait for that to come up. I can't see
it at the moment, sorry.
Ah, would you like to see your witness statement?
Yes, please.
WITN11360100, paragraph 153, that's page 52. We can't
look into the truth or otherwise of what was said to
Parliament but if you're able to assist us with what the
65
understand the issues -- the differences, sorry.
I understood what was broadly being looked into but
I didn't immediately understand the differences, no.
When did you become aware of the differences between the
two?
So I had started asking questions about it because it
obviously related to extremely important matters, and
I felt that I should be aware of them, and I'd asked
questions, probably from not long after I joined,
probably at the end of October, and I established
a broad understanding. At that time, I wasn't
accountable for the work, but I got a broad
understanding, and I did quickly understand the
differences between those two groups of people, yes.
I think you've said in your witness statement that Past
Roles was moved to sit within your domain by December
2023; is that correct?
I think it was around -- I couldn't remember exactly but
I'm sure it was -- as we came from the Christmas break
into the New Year, kind of the end of December, yes.
Why was it moved within your domain and where did it
come from originally?
So originally, Owen Woodley had executive accountability
for it and then there was a couple of people that were
set up to do the operational work, yeah.
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broad allegation was that you say was not minuted as
part of that allegation.
Sorry, yes. I'll just remind myself.
153 to 157.
This relates to one of the two -- I was asked about
whistleblowing complaints in the business and this
relates to one of the two whistleblowing complaints that
I was aware of at the time of writing my statement, yes.
So it wasn't minuted so as to protect the identity of
the whistleblower or for some other reason?
Sorry, could you repeat that?
I think your witness statement suggested that there was.
intentionally something not minuted within that
investigation.
No, that wasn't --
Perhaps that's —
That wasn't what I was intending, no.
That's fine. Perhaps we can then mover on to Project
Phoenix and Past Roles. That can come down, thank you.
Did you understand the difference between Project
Phoenix and Past Roles at the beginning?
Do you mean in the beginning of my time at the Post
Office?
If they were both ongoing at that time, yes?
They were both ongoing and, no, I didn't immediately
66
Why did it move to you?
Naturally, there were investigatory matters which
related to colleagues that worked in the business so,
therefore, from an accountability perspective it would
make sense for it to sit with me but also, I think I was
probably, with respect to Owen, I was probably better
qualified to take the executive responsibility.
I probably had more experience in that particular area
than Owen did at the time. So we discussed it, and
agreed that it would be better to sit in my area.
How about Project Phoenix?
No, so Project Phoenix was with John Bartlett's team,
the Assurance & Complex Investigations team.
Do you think that the division between the two is
appropriate?
Do you mean the division in Project Phoenix between
myself and that unit or do you mean the division of Past
Roles and Phoenix, sorry?
Both.
Both. So yes, in terms of the division of the two
subject matters because they are distinctly different.
Ultimately, I think it's important for me to be
connected and brought in on some of the matters relating
to Project Phoenix because, after all, they relate to
Post Office colleagues who have a contract with the
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business.
Are you sufficiently brought in?
Yes.
Can we turn to POL00448308. We're going to start by
looking at the Past Roles Project, we'll then move on to
Phoenix. These are the terms of reference that the
Inquiry has seen before. I'm not going to spend a great
deal of time on it but the first sentence there refers
to the Past Roles Project being established after the
Inquiry's compensation hearing in December 2022. Are
you aware of why that was the particular trigger for
this work?
My understanding is because of the judgments, that that
initiate the work, as ...
Sorry, what do you mean?
So the -- I think from the -- this is a recollection, so
I think it's from -- as a result of the judgments that
the team set up to look into this matter.
Do you know why the Inquiry's own compensation hearing
might have been a trigger?
I don't know, I'm sorry, no.
If we turn over the page, please, we see the risks that
are said to emerge, and this is a matter I've dealt with
with other witnesses. They're set out there:
"... (i) Criticism of employees (say on social
69
was the case. Sorry.
If we could please turn to page 11. Mr Eldridge, does
he sit on that panel?
Yes, he does.
Paragraph 3, this is another passage that I've read to
other witnesses, it says there, in terms of key themes.
for communications:
"In carrying out this work we are acutely aware of
the duties we owe to our colleagues, and the views of
our trade unions. We also recognise that, in the vast
majority of cases, employees who have performed such
roles in the past will have carried out their duties
according to the instructions given to them by the
business at the time, and in the belief that Horizon was
robust."
Do you consider that to be appropriate?
So I think, in seeing some of the thematic evidence that
I've seen over my time in the Post Office, relating to
kind of the mistakes that have been made on culture, it
isn't surprising to see the reference to the fact that
colleagues were acting under instructions from more
senior people. That isn't surprising.
It's very difficult to comment. I wasn't obviously
here when these terms of reference were --
This is a report from January 2024.
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media); (ii) Undermining the integrity of the work being
performed (for example, giving rise to conflict or the
perception of conflict); (iii) Undermining postmaster of
the public confidence in the work being performed by
[the Post Office], or the specific team."
Do you consider those risks to be an accurate
reflection of the risks, and in that order?
In that order, no, I obviously can't speak to this
confidently because I wasn't here at the time. I think
all of them are considerations. The biggest risk of
changes in this particular unit, where most of these
people were employed, would be the slowing of
compensation for postmasters. So I think that probably
should have been the number 1 issue here.
Thank you. Thank you. Can we please turn to
POL00448615. This is a Group Executive report, the
title is "Past Roles Review" dated 17 January 2024.
Could I please ask you to turn to page 7. I wonder
whether you could assist us with this. We've heard
evidence that it was originally, or certainly Mr Jacobs
thought, that he was originally going to be sitting on
this panel. We see there Mark Eldridge's name as
Postmaster NED. Can you see us with that at all?
Obviously I wasn't there at the time of setting up this
panel, so I don't - I wasn't aware, actually, that that
70
Oh, sorry, right, okay.
If we take a step back and look at the Past Roles Review
and the work that's being carried out, do you think that
there has been sufficient focus on the risk it actually
poses to subpostmasters and, for example, those claiming
compensation and redress, rather than, for example, the
risks to current employees?
I think in my time here and in all of the conversations
that I have had, both of those things have been
a consideration, so it is true to say that that the
concern that people, looking at our progress with this,
might have, subpostmasters and members of the public and
other people, is relevant and it has been relevant to us
as well as the impact on the colleagues in the business,
yes.
Could we please turn to POL00448864. These are the
minutes of a Group Executive meeting from 13 March this
year. I'd just like to read to you a passage or a few
paragraphs that relate to the Past Roles Project. They
can be found on page 3, please. If we scroll down, we
can see the heading "People" and "Past Roles". Is this
something you spoke to or you --
So I sponsored the work. Nic Marriott and Simon
Recaldin came in to do the presentation.
Thank you. I'm just going to read to you a few passages
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and just ask you a few questions going along. So "SR"
is Mr Recaldin and "NM" is Ms Marriott:
"[Simon Recaldin and Nicola Marriott] spoke to the
paper which set out a recommendation on the approach to
be taken in relation to the Past Roles Review and
staffing in the Remediation Unit in the light of the
change in operational context and political
environment.”
Do you know what's meant there by the operational
context and political environment?
Yes, my understanding, and the conversations that I'd
had with Nic before she came into present this paper
were that the -- it was quite difficult at the time,
amongst other things, to determine the workload
requirement and, therefore, the workforce planning for
the Remediation Unit, because things were changing quite
frequently. At this particular time, I think this was
in the time of the mass exoneration and the change to
the schemes, as well. So, what she's speaking to here
is the changing environment but also the difficulties
faced by that team at the time and the workload.
So operational, in the sense that there was more
pressure, more work, and some of the political decisions
that had been taken at that time, which changed the work
of the -- of that unit.
73
outlined within the [terms of reference] of the Past
Roles Review had materialised and that ongoing
uncertainty was causing upset (with mental health
absence as a result in some cases).”
Do you know what's meant there by "none of the risks
outlined in the terms of reference had materialised"?
I can't remember and I don't know specifically but --
no, I'm sorry, I can't remember.
It says:
"Colleagues were rated 'RED’, however, if they were
identified as giving rise to a perceived risk in terms
of undermining the integrity and independence of
remediation and redress work being done and in those
cases, redeployment had been recommended.
"Since the review had been undertaken, there had
been a significant increase in late applications and the
[Remediation Unit] work driven by current external
scrutiny and the heightened awareness that was
generating, organisational design delays had meant
an increase in colleagues who were deemed as 'RED' and
there [was] no clarity yet on the Government's role in
relation to redress going forward and associated
processes and procedures."
Are we to understand that, by March 2024, following,
for example, the ITV drama, there was an increase in the
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The third bullet point says:
"It had been agreed that an independent panel would
be established to validate the approach to the activity
and while it had decision making authority it was able
to recommend potential outcomes, as follows:
"No further action
“Reallocation of workload or activities
"Redeployment
"Additional assistance for employee wellbeing
"A formal employment process in limited
circumstances, [for example] where an individual in
a high risk role unreasonably refuses to accept
redeployment or cooperate with the business."
So the Past Roles Project here is looking at those
who had previously been involved in issues that the
Inquiry is looking at and who are still working for the
Post Office --
That's right.
-- and these are the options that are being presented or
were presented for, for example, not taking action,
redeploying, et cetera; is that a fair summary of that?
That's exactly right, yes.
Thank you.
"[Ms Marriott] noted that public perception aside,
no direct conflicts had been found and none of the risks
74
number of people who were claiming redress and the
Remediation Unit was under great pressure, work
pressure?
Yes, that's correct.
The concern in the business, it appears -- and correct
me if I'm wrong on my reading of this -- is that the
work that was being undertaken in relation to the Past
Roles Project, potentially redeploying people from the
Remediation Unit, would cause problems in that regard?
That was one of the balancing decisions that we had
actually, yes, and it was very difficult to pinpoint
exactly what the workload and, therefore, the workforce
requirements of the team were. It was quite difficult
to pin that down and that's, I believe, one of the other
reasons it's led to it taking longer than it should have
taken.
"[Simon Recaldin and Nicola Marriott] noted the
implications arising from a reduction in headcount and
the risks posed to redress claim processing times.
"The recommendation to the SEG, therefore, was to
take a 'many to few approach to redesigning the
organisational structure within the [Remediation Unit].
The approach would see the number of 'RED' employees
reduce and the appointment of new recruits to undertake
work at a different (lower) grade, albeit the transition
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would need to be done over time to help mitigate the
risks to redress claim processing times.”
Can you assist us with what the suggestion is there,
please?
So I think we were acutely aware that the last thing we
could do was slow down compensation and, therefore,
changes to the structure in that Unit, taking away
people that, notwithstanding the perception of their
involvement in work that is of interest to the Inquiry
and had led to postmaster prosecution, that they had
experience and knowledge and we already had a gap in
corporate knowledge that was essential not to slow down
redress, and that was the forefront of our mind.
So were you balancing out a risk: on the one hand you
had a risk that those who were previously involved in
issues being examined by the Inquiry would still be
employed within the Remediation Team; but, on the other
side, you had potential delay if they were to be
redeployed elsewhere?
Yes, absolutely.
“It was recommended that the creation of a separate
independent function should continue to be explored and
initially in discussion with Government, as the make-up
of any such function would depend on final decisions on
the Government's role in relation to redress going
77
action’."
So we have a "many to few" approach and we have
a “no further action" approach; can you talk us through
those two different possibilities?
So the "no further action" would be exactly as it says
there. I mean, we would just -- we would do nothing,
effectively, with any of the people that worked in the
Remediation Unit. They would continue in their role and
they would stay as it is. Nothing would be any
different. The "many to few approach" would be
a restructuring, reorganisation approach that -- it's
a redundancy, effectively. This is a Post Office
terminology that I wasn't -- I only became familiar with
very recently but the "many to few" approach is the
decreasing or diminishing of a business unit and,
therefore, the compulsory redundancy that would be
associated with that.
That's the terminology for it. So it goes from,
I think, the extreme of doing nothing at all to making
people in that business unit redundant on a compulsory
basis.
"[Mr Recaldin and Ms Marriott] left the meeting so that
the SEG could discuss the recommendations.
"The SEG discussed the difficult trade-offs at play,
with the majority voting for the 'many to few’
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forward.”
We saw the Government's role being mentioned at the
very top of the page, as well. Is there, at this point
in time, a movement at the Post Office towards trying to
put redress in the Government's hands, rather than in
the Post Office's hands?
So I'm aware of -- I mean, I'm not involved in those
conversations, so I can't confidently speak to them but
I do know that those conversations have been ongoing,
and are another factor in us not clearly -- or haven't
clearly been able to determine the resource requirements
of the unit. So I think we're working blind to the
decisions that might happen outside of our control,
really, and assuming a business as usual approach to
ensure continuity of compensation, the best that we can
do.
It says:
"as the make-up of any such function would
depend on final decisions on the Government's role in
relation to redress going forward.
"[Ms Marriott] noted that while she stood behind the
recommend, she would wish to emphasise that no conflicts
had been found, nor had any risks materialised; the
issue was one of perception. On this basis,
[Ms Marriott] would personally advocate for ‘no further
78
recommendation."
Then it has a footnote. If we scroll down, we can
see the footnote. It says:
"NR, CB and KS voted for Option 3, ‘many to few’; OW
voted for Option 2, 'no further action’; [you] abstained
‘on the basis Option 3 ['many to few] had the majority
vote."
Can you assist us with what your view actually was
at that time?
So my view at the time, and the reason for not
abstaining, was to delay the process any further. My
view at the time was we just needed to do something and
it was clear that it had already taken too long. So
I had a strong view that something did need to be done,
therefore I wasn't firmly of the view that nothing
should happen. I could see that clearly something had
to happen, yes.
The decision was taken for option 3, "many to few".
Does that mean the team was made smaller in size, or
what happened?
So this was the recommendation that was then taken to
the Board, which was why it was so important at this
meeting that we got a decision because I think, by now,
it was -- correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this was
the middle of March --
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Yes.
-- and because the conversation had been circling around
for a long time, and because we were all acutely aware
of the internal impact and the internal perception, let
alone the external perspective of not doing anything, it
was becoming critical. And I think this was the meeting
pre-the Board meeting and, at the Board meeting, we were
going to get the final decision and permission to move
ahead and execute the plan that we are now, actually, as
I speak, we are now in the process of executing.
We're not taking a compulsory redundancy approach,
but we have resolved with a mixture of voluntary
redundancy approach and then a ring-fence where we'll be
removing people from the Remediation Unit so they will
be reporting in a separate unit. But we've got a period
of time that's really critical so we can hand over --
and I mentioned earlier that they have subject matter
experience which is critical to compensation, and we
don't want to lose that experience and knowledge.
So there will be a transition period where -- over
three months or so, where that knowledge could be
transferred properly so the work can still progress.
So is the current position arising from this discussion
and the subsequent Board meeting that people are being
replaced within the Remediation Unit and, if so, do you
81
a very similar time as these discussions. So if we look
at these discussions at the Group Executive level of
13 March this year, this is emailed correspondence from
8 March. Could we turn over the page, please.
It relates to a grievance that had been raised in
respect of Mr Recaldin around this time. We don't need
to go into the detail but we have there, in the
paragraph beginning with the word "whilst", it says:
“Whilst I do not believe escalation is required to
the misconduct policy in relation to Simon, the
investigation does raise concerns about the
effectiveness of his performance and a number of further
actions are now needed to get to the bottom of and
correct issues that are likely present within the
function including ineffective OD ..."
Can you assist us with what that means?
Sorry, yes, that's "organisation design". So the way
that the unit is structured.
"... and lack of resourcing plan as well as cultural
issues arising from an ‘us and them’ mindset within the
leadership team."
Can you assist us with the concerns that are being
raised there?
Sorry, can I just take a minute to remind myself of this
paragraph?
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see any risks to the prompt payment of compensation and
redress to subpostmasters arising from that?
I'm confident that we cross-functionally have all of the
right plans in place. It is critical that there is this
handover period and whilst people might expect it to
happen very quickly it's critical that it doesn't happen
any quicker -- it takes as long as it needs to take to
ensure that knowledge transfer happens and only at that
point will those people move away from the unit. So
I think if that isn't enacted, then there is a clear
risk that there's a knowledge gap.
And it has been really difficult to establish the
specific resource requirements for that unit because of
the change in -- for example, the change to the schemes,
and what that might mean and I think that drives the
need to be constantly monitoring the resource
requirements in that unit. So I think we're working
closely as a People Team with Simon Recaldin and his
team to ensure that he has -- as a Subject Matter
Expert, that he has exactly what he needs to continue to
run the function. But the redress and the speed of
compensation is at the forefront of my mind and
everybody's mind that's dealing with this object.
Could we please have a look at POL00458447. This is
a separate issue that appears to have been happening at
82
Absolutely. (Pause)
So there were a couple of issues. So the original
complaint that had been initiated was regarding the
disproportionate number of people that were incumbent
Post Office colleagues, vis 4 vis the number of
contingent workers, so contractor workers, and that's
why I'm referring here to the set-up of the business
unit and the function. And it was clear that there was
a need to have a better resourcing plan and I've spoken
to the kind of volatility and the challenges relating to
that.
But it was really important that we were clear -- so
that we could help Simon and team -- we were clear about
exactly what was needed in that function to run of the
contribution scheme process effectively. And, at that
time, I offered some support with one of the People
Team, who had expertise in both organisation design and
resourcing to help Simon and the team to have more
effective plans.
That was in March of this year. Do you think that the
team now, the Remediation Unit, has sufficient
resources, sufficient expertise, sufficient quality
individuals, to address the issues of compensation and
redress?
Did you say the Remediation Unit? Apologies, I didn't
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hear --
Yes.
-- the first part of your statement. Would you mind
repeating your question?
Do you think, looking at the issues being raised as at
March this year, by the present time, do you think
sufficient has been done to ensure that that unit has
sufficient people, sufficient quality, sufficient
expertise in respect of compensation and redress?
So I think in terms of the people required, as far as
all of us can tell now, we are in a much stronger place
in terms of resourcing requirements. I think, as you
previously asked me about the moving of people in the
Past Roles population, and that potential knowledge
loss, I mean, as long as we mitigate for that, I think
that the people operationally that are doing the job are
capable and I think we have enough people. I think it
is a moving feast because of the changes to schemes and,
as long as we can keep on top of those changes, I think
that that will be helpful.
We are supporting Simon and the team, so there are
other members of the leadership team that are also
helping in this function in this unit as well to ensure
that we've got the right level of capability there.
Looking at the concerns that are raised here regarding
85
the approximate numbers of people who have been working
in the Remediation Unit but, in inverted commas, "it's
now thought appropriate that they should not be".
Yes.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: How many actual numbers are we talking
A
about?
The actual number -- and it's taken quite a long time to
get to this point -- sorry for my deliberation, but the
actual number is 27 people.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right, okay, and that's out of
A
approximately how many?
Approximately 110, but that's approximate.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right, okay, so I've got that. So far as
A
the schemes with which the Remediation Unit is
concemed, following this Inquiry, we'll know that on
occasions I've been struggling to keep abreast of the
various schemes that have come into existence. The Post
Office Remediation Unit, does it deal with -- I believe
there are now four schemes?
Yes, I believe there are four.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So it deals with all of them?
A
Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right, fine.
A.
Four, but there are more than four schemes. So, to the
best of my understanding -- I'm definitely not the
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ineffective OD, lack of resourcing plan, and cultural
issues, to what extent do you consider those may have
impacted negatively on the speed of compensation and
redress?
A. I don't think we've found any evidence that that has
happened at this point in time but I think, in answering
the question as best as I'm able to answer it, if the
design of the function and the way that the function and
the people within in it are working together is not as
good as it should be and not best practice, then that
has the potential to be ineffective and, in this case,
obviously what we're asking this unit to do is make
compensation payments. So I think it has the potential
for it to have had an effect but we're not aware that it
has.
Q. Are you aware of anybody looking into those matters
further?
A. Yes. So this is a constant point of discussion and the
operation of this is a constant point of discussion and
focus, and our recently appointed Group General Counsel,
that's accountable for this area, is very focused on it
so him and the team are giving this a lot of attention.
Q. Thank you.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Can I just try to understand the scale of
what we are talking about. First of all, in terms of
86
expert here but I'm pretty certain it's four, yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: All right. Let me name them, so that I'm
sure I'm on the ball. There's what I'll call the first
‘one, the shortfall scheme. That was the first one in
time?
A. (The witness nodded)
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Then there was a scheme when people's
convictions started to be quashed by the Court of
Appeal?
A. (The witness nodded)
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: We've called it the Overturned
Convictions Scheme.
Then there was a scheme to provide further
compensation to members of the GLO --
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Now, there is a scheme to compensate
those people who have been, I use the word "exonerated"
by act of Parliament?
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I Is that it or are there more that I'm
missing?
A. There's also a process, a Post Office Process Review
Scheme. I'm sorry, I'm definitely not the Subject
Matter Expert but there is a scheme about --
regarding -- yeah, the -- I think it's the process --
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SIR WYN WILLIAMS: We've got lots of people -
A. Apologies, somebody more qualified than me should answer
that question. Sorry.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: That's fine. We'll get to the bottom of
it. But I'm right, at least, that there are four at
least --
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = -- and there may be at least one more.
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Fine. All right.
MR BLAKE: Moving on now from Past Roles to Project Phoenix,
we've heard a suggestion in evidence, I think, from
Mr Staunton, suggesting that Project Phoenix was allowed
to go into the long grass by Mr Foat. What's your view
on that?
A. Can I answer that question in two parts, if I might,
because it might be easier for me to answer. So at the
time of Mr Staunton making that accusation, Ben Foat was
not responsible for that unit so, therefore, by nature,
wasn't responsible for the investigations. So I think
that was an error made by Mr Staunton. I don't think he
understood the structure of the business at that time
but Ben Foat wasn't actually responsible.
In terms of the perception that it had been kicked
into the long grass, I think there was just process
89
yes.
Q. Are you able to assist us with whether you think
sufficient progress has now been made in relation to
Project Phoenix?
A. So, yes, I do believe that sufficient progress has been
made and, internally, we are confident -- again, this
isn't necessarily right -- within my remit but I do know
and I'm associated with the programme and quite close to
it, so I'm sure that we're going to be concluding our
processes by the end of this year, the end of the
calendar year.
Q. Whyare you sure about that?
A. I just know that that's how far the investigations have
progressed so I'm clear, I'm kept update about that
regularly.
Q. Are you able to assist us with the current position, as
things stand as at today?
A. So the current position is that there are three
colleagues that are in scope as part of this process.
I'm not sure whether the Inquiry is aware of that, but
that is factually accurate. And we have conducted full
investigations into the allegations, bearing in mind
that the colleagues involved here were subject to
specific allegations of wrongdoing, so there's been
a thorough internal investigation, which has been
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failings and communication failings, and I don't think,
to the best of my belief, that anybody had intended to
kick that into the long grass. It's hugely complicated,
and it's just not straightforward.
What is your view on whether people should be suspended
while they're being investigated, rather than continuing
to work within the business?
Specifically in relation to Project Phoenix or --
Yes --
-- or are you saying generally? So my view on
suspension is that it's a necessary form of action when
an investigation is taking place. I think the bar on
suspension is now far higher than it was, and obviously
we're bound by sort of ACAS guidelines, which is that
the -- generally, we would use suspension where
an investigation was going to be a brief period of time.
I think in the case of Project Phoenix, the decision was
taken not to suspend for that reason because I don't
think -- I wasn't there at the time but -- so -- the
best of my understanding, and I know to be the case, the
decision was taken not to suspend because we didn't deem
that it would be a brief period of time and a brief
investigation.
That being said, with hindsight, I do think it may
have been better to have made suspensions in this case,
90
conducted by the Assurance & Complex Investigations
team.
They are at the almost concluding part of that
investigatory process into the individuals that are in
the scope currently.
Thank you. There's one final document I'd like to ask
you about before moving to questions from Core
Participants, and that's POL00448788. This is a letter
that was drawn to the Inquiry's attention by Mr Ismail,
although he wasn't aware of the author of this letter.
This is a letter, if we scroll down, from Graham
Brander, who it has there listed as the Network
Provision Lead.
Are you aware that Mr Brander investigated Jo
Hamilton, Julian Wilson, Lynette Hutchings and others?
No, I wasn't aware. That's the first time that I've
come across this. I wasn't aware, no.
Thank you. That particular document can come down?
Are you aware of individuals who formerly worked for
the Post Office being rehired. Mr Brander, for example,
was rehired in 2019; is that something you were aware
of?
Not at all, no.
Do you have any concerns that there are those who are
actively working at the Post Office, in roles relating
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to subpostmasters or relating to investigations, who do
bear some responsibility for what has happened in the
past?
So I'm not aware of any individuals but I am of the
strong belief that, if there had been any allegations of
any form of wrongdoing by any individuals then, of
course, it would have been completely inappropriate for
them to be working at the Post Office.
‘Are you aware of anybody who is working at the Post
Office?
So, save for the people that are in the population that
are a matter of our investigations for allegations of
wrongdoing specifically, no, I'm not aware of any —-
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So you're aware of three people,
A
effectively?
Yes, I am.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes.
MR BLAKE: Thank you, sir. Those are all of my questions.
I know that Mr Stein has some questions. I think that
may be it.
Questioned by MR STEIN
MR STEIN: Ms McEwan, my name is Sam Stein. I represent
2
A
a
A.
a large number of subpostmasters and I've got a few
questions for you.
Could I start, please, with your own statement. Can
93
not engaging with the business."
Help us understand this, many years before this
interview, you had worked with Mr Read; is that correct?
Yes.
I think 20 years ago you've said?
Yes, but to clarify, we hadn't worked together. So we
came from very different parts of the business and, as
you'll appreciate, Tesco is a huge employer, 300,000
people, I think, in the UK. So we had never worked
together. We just happened to be on a leadership
development programme together.
Right. That's helpful. Thank you.
My question, though, relates to the appropriateness
of this discussion at an interview. This is before
you're employed at the Post Office. You're being given
information regarding Al, Mr Cameron, which is that
there had been complaints about his behaviour,
unspecified complaints, and that there had been then
a difficulty, the relationship breaking down between
him, Mr Read and Mr Cameron.
(The witness nodded)
Should those sorts of matters be discussed in interviews
prior to employment?
So for context, I think this came from the -- I was
asking questions about the set-up of the Executive Team
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I take you to your statement which you should have, it's
WITN11360100. Within your statement, Ms McEwan, I'm
going to be asking you a question directly about
paragraph 212, if you go to that.
Is it possible to have this on screen --
Hopefully it will go on to the screen.
-- so I can refer to it?
Paragraph 212, please. Thank you. So, we orientate
ourselves on the paragraph, you say at the beginning
there:
"At my interview, when discussing Al's absence ..."
The "Al" being referred to there is Mr Cameron; is
that correct?
Yes, sorry, yes.
"Nick", that's Mr Read?
Itis.
"... Nick also informed me that there had been
complaints regarding Al's behaviour but did not specify
what had been alleged. He also told me that
a conversation had taken place between him and Al in
early 2023 regarding Al making an ‘exit’ from the
business, as the relationship between them had broken
down due to a longstanding employment dispute ..."
Then it then finishes:
“Al had then been off work due to ill health and was
94
and the strength of the team. I was aware that there
was not a CFO in place, and obviously that's a critical
leadership position, and I was concerned that --
I wanted to understand and I obviously wanted to do my
‘own due diligence before joining the business, so it was
important that I understood the context and the
‘operating context of the leadership team. So I think
I'd asked questions about the whole team, and that's
where the conversation came about.
I think, in terms of the appropriateness, there
would be -- I would hope that Mr Read would have known,
from knowing me 20 years before but also knowing by
reputation, that my integrity is extremely important and
that I would never have divulged that out side of the
conversation that we'd had and the confines of that.
And the only reason I have done now is because I've been
asked specific questions by the Inquiry, so I've had to
make that in my statement, but I -- that conversation
was in the -- in a trusted conversation between me and
Mr Read before starting work.
I'll ask my question again. Should such matters be
discussed prior to employment?
I think possibly not.
Can I move, then, on to a different document, please.
This is a document for a Board meeting, which is this
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year, 27 February. If I've got the document reference
right, it's POL00447854, page 1.
It's a Board report that's being discussed,
a three-year People Plan and people structure. So
POL00447854, page 1. Ms McEwan, again it should go on
the screen. Grateful. If you can scroll down the page,
please, under "firstly", if we look at those two
paragraphs, you see where it says, "Executive Summary",
“firstly”, and then "secondly". Probably the easiest
sentence to look at is under "Secondly":
"a Strategic People Plan has been developed,
focusing on three strategic priorities -- colleague
experience, capability and inclusion -- to ‘create
a great place to work for all’. The high-level plan is.
shared with the Board in this paper for noting and
discussion."
If we wish to, we can go up the page, I don't ask
for that, but this is a document presented to the Board
for February 2024, this year, which is for noting only,
essentially saying that this what is happening, we are
developing this paper, three-year plan.
Now, you've discussed this briefly with Mr Blake.
But where this says "to create a great place to work for
all", in fact the plan doesn't mention subpostmasters.
I can't even find the word "subpostmaster" used at all
97
I understand it's implicit, and we are making real
efforts to extend some of the work we're doing through
this plan to subpostmasters. For example, we've had
several meetings recently where we've talked about the
leadership -- sorry, the Behaviour Framework that
I spoke to earlier. We've started to talk to the
postmasters about how that hopefully will make
a difference to them for the future and we've had quite
positive feedback from that, and something like our
service training, we're running a programme of inclusive
customer service training. We feel that that could
easily be extended to the postmaster population, and we
want to be able to do that. So it's not explicit but
I'm conscious that it isn't explicit and, as I said,
there is a reason for that.
The Postmaster NEDs, I think they were the ones that
came to you and said that there's a problem with this
plan that it doesn't mention subpostmasters; isn't that
right?
Sorry, could you repeat?
Did they come to you and make that point, did they say
to you, "Ms McEwan, this doesn't mention
subpostmasters"? You didn't elicit, you didn't go to
them and say "I'm terribly sorry about not mentioning
subpostmasters", did you?
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within that plan. Help us to understand how such a plan
that is meant to create a great place to work for all
doesn't even refer to subpostmasters?
So this is a question that I have been asked before,
understandably so. So the extent of my remit is to the
colleagues that work at the Post Office but I'm acutely
aware, and very focused, on my role in providing
a strong, capable, collective of people that work at the
Post Office so that they can do their best for
postmasters, and I discussed this very point with the
Postmaster Non-Exec Directors.
So before I took this plan to the Board, I consulted
with Saf and Elliot because I was keen to make sure that
the work that I was going to do through the plan would
make a difference for postmasters and, at that point,
Elliot actually pointed out to me that it didn't
explicitly say "postmasters".
I think we're intending, in the statement, a great
place to work and, originally, we just had it as
“a great place to work", with a full stop. We've said
“for all" because, by reference, that means anybody that
is associated with the Post Office, we want it to be
a great experience and a great culture for everybody,
and that means for everybody, irrespective of the jobs
that they do. So I think it's implicit.
98
No, I did go to them. It was my full intent to consult
them thoroughly before I took this paper and the plan
anywhere, and they are my biggest, most significant
stakeholder. So I did consult them and I did ask the
question.
Is there a three-year People Plan and People structure
for subpostmasters and branch employees?
Not to the best of my knowledge, no.
Was the possible inclusion of mention of subpostmasters
and staff at branches discussed with Angela Wolfenden,
who is the external people and organisation design
consultant who conducted the review? Was the
possibility of mentioning them even by exclusion, by
saying that this is not meant to directly refer to those
individuals, was that discussed with Ms Wolfenden?
So I'm not aware whether it was discussed or not.
I think, with hindsight, as confident as I am about the
intention of the People Plan and the spirit that we want
to go about this work, I think with hindsight it would
be entirely appropriate and helpful maybe to reference
specifically in future documents that, whilst I don't
talk about subpostmasters and postmasters directly, the
work that we're doing is absolutely focused on improving
the relationship and definitely improving trust and
communication with them.
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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Because you say -- and other people have said this --
that the pressures of the scrutiny of this Inquiry, and
cases and investigations, have impacted upon people
within the Post Office so that people -- are you okay --
so people are concerned about the way their behaviours
may be viewed. We understand that but this still seems
to be excluding subpostmasters rather directly, doesn't
it?
So arguably, in the work that I'm doing, I don't think
that there is exclusion. I think far from it. I think
Ive -- I'm very acutely aware of the need for the
connectivity between the culture of this organisation
and what it best does to serve postmasters. So every
part of our plan is intending to do that.
In that case I'll take you to a different document
POL00458463. So that's POL00458463. Ms McEwan, that's
the “Our Behaviours" plan, okay? So “Our Behaviours"
plan. This one is July '24. Was this one drafted
inhouse or was that one also outsourced?
So we drafted it in consultation with a management
consultancy business that we were working with as part
of the ethos programme that had been set up before
I started. So it was a collaboration between the
Executive of the Post Office, including the whole team,
and this company.
101
it would -- would relate to postmasters.
Thank you. Now, you've come to the Post Office with
a huge range of experience, background, longevity of
employment at Tesco and other companies. Is there
a similar People person with your type of experience for
the -- I think it's 7,000 individual branch
subpostmasters, and presumably a larger number also of
employees; is there somebody that's got your background
experience and ability to provide the focus within the
organisation for those people?
Sorry, do you mean currently employed in the Post
Office?
Yes.
Not to my knowledge, no.
You've mentioned that there is a subpostmaster who has
been brought in to try to provide an insight into
subpostmasters. But that subpostmaster, unless I'm very
wrong, doesn't have your sort of background and
experience; is that correct?
Has a different background and experience, but yeah, but
not from a -- probably from a cultural expertise
perspective, no.
Just moving then slightly sideways to whistleblowing and
the policies that are in place currently. Now, the
whistleblowing policies I won't look at in detail with
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Page 5, please, of that document. Now, we've just seen
under the banner heading "Creating a great place to work
for all", if we can expand it on my screen -- it's very
small, I don't know whether it can be widened
slightly -- onto "How and when to use these behaviours",
thank you. If we can scroll down, please, to the
“Employee engagement survey", there we go.
So this is under that heading and descriptions:
"Including questions related to behaviours and
employ surveys to gauge impact on overall engagement,
cultural alignment and colleague satisfaction."
Then if we just go up one, please, from there
“Recruitment and selection":
"To support what it takes to be successful at Post
Office, we will align our behaviours to our recruitment
and selection processes. The definitions will provide
a solid benchmark when hiring."
Now, this plan does mention colleagues including
subpostmasters but it appears to be directly impactful
for employees; is that correct?
The -- so, yes, the intention is to provide a framework
for the employees. I described in the past, for
example, there's been a lack of curiosity in the
organisation. It's really important that we correct for
that and we address it. So I think, yes, but by nature,
102
you, but they're not incorporated into subpostmaster
contracts. So there is a policy and that policy,
essentially, if we wanted to look at it, says that
subpostmasters' whistleblowing comments will be received
by the Post Office --
(The witness nodded)
-- although, essentially, the Post Office doesn't have
to look at those because of legislation essentially
doesn't take into account contractors or non-employees.
(The witness nodded)
To assist subpostmasters, would it be of benefit to them
if the whistleblowing policy was incorporated directly
into their contracts, so that there will be
a contractual obligation to ensure that that is adhered
to?
Yes, I would hope that -- and probably hope isn't enough
but I would hope that the work that we're doing to
ensure that people -- everybody, postmasters and
colleagues in the organisation -- understand the
benefits of having that policy and how to utilise it,
I think is really important but I think it's possible
that we shouldn't over-rely on that, I think. So yes,
it may be helpful.
Lastly, you, amongst other individuals within the Post
Office, have taken part in meetings with subpostmasters
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that have been affected by the scandal?
A. Yes.
Q._ I think you've taken part in number of those meetings,
including travelling to Belfast; is that correct?
A. I haven't been to Belfast but I have been to several
meetings.
Q. Right, okay. Where did you go in your meetings?
A. So my meetings have been virtual, actually, so I've done
three meetings and they've all been virtual but I have
done three of the meetings, yes.
Q. I'm grateful.
Just to finish my questions for you, Ms McEwan, can
you comment on the personal impact, emotional impact,
that those meetings have had on you?
A. Yeah, I've found the meetings to be personally
distressing and hugely insightful. I think probably
less important the impact they had on me but more the
impact that what's happened in the past has had on those
people and their families. I found them incredibly
difficult but hugely insightful, and very helpful to me
in my role at the Post Office.
MR STEIN: Excuse me one moment.
Thank you, Ms McEwan.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
MR BLAKE: Sir, I think those are all the questions.
105
respect of all the people in the business.
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So my question is: shouldn't the Chief
People Officer have specific functions in relation to
postmasters?
A. Yes.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So if I were to recommend that, you
wouldn't think I'd gone mad?
A. I wouldn't. I'd wholeheartedly agree.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Right. Thank you.
A. Weare starting to do work though, we are --
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: No, I follow --
A. We're making progress but there's much more to do.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I It just struck me, you know, from
Mr Blake's questions and Mr Stein's questions, and there
seemed to me to be an elephant in the room, so I thought
I'd bring out the elephant.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right, thank you.
MR BLAKE: Thank you, sir.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = That's it, Mr Blake?
MR BLAKE: Itis.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes. Well, thank you very much for your
assistance to me this morning. I'm very grateful.
MR BLAKE: Shall we come back at 2.00, sir?
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Questioned by SIR WYN WILLIAMS
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right. I'm not sure that I should be
A.
asking this question, because I'm not sure I've got the
expertise to evaluate where I'm going, but I will ask
it.
In this rather unusually structured organisation,
where you have direct employees but you have postmasters
who are now, if they weren't in the past, certainly now,
said to be absolutely central to the business, shouldn't
they be under the function of someone called a Chief
People Officer?
Do I think -- sorry, can you just say the last bit of
the question, again? Sorry.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, you've got direct employees,
A
obviously.
Yeah.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: But you've got other people who are
A
contractually, in legal terms bound to the Post Office
but acknowledged to be central to the business --
Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: -- the postmaster --
A.
Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = -- and you've got someone called a Chief
People Officer and, to my rather naive way of thinking,
that means that someone is performing functions in
106
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Certainly.
(1.01 pm)
(The Short Adjournment)
(2.00 pm)
MR BLAKE: Good afternoon, sir. This afternoon we're going
to hear from Mr Railton.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes.
NIGEL RAILTON (sworn)
Questioned by MR BLAKE
MRBLAKE: Thank you. Can you give your full name, please.
A
a
>
prop
My name is Nigel Railton.
Thank you very much. Mr Railton, you should have in
front of you a witness statement --
Ido.
-- dated 30 August this year; is that correct?
Yes, itis.
Can I ask you, please, to turn to the final substantive
page, that's page 33. Can you confirm that that is your
signature?
It is my signature.
Is that statement true to the best of your knowledge and
belief?
Yes, it is.
That witness statement has a URN of WITN11390100, and
that will be published on the Inquiry's website shortly.
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preroe>r
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By way of background, you are a qualified
accountant; is that correct?
Yes.
You started life, working life, in the railway industry;
is that right?
Yes.
You worked at Black & Decker, and then Daewoo Cars?
That's correct.
You joined Camelot in 1998 as Head of Finance?
Correct.
You held various positions at Camelot before becoming
their CEO from 2017 to 2023; is that correct?
That is correct, yes.
You currently hold a number of Non-Executive Director
positions --
Mm.
-- as well as being Chair of something called Argentex
Group, which is a Financial Services Company; is that
correct?
That's correct.
Relevant for today’s purpose, you are current Chair of
Post Office, or Interim Chair of the Post Office, and
you were appointed on 24 March this year; is that
correct -- sorry, 24 May this year.
24 May is correct, yes.
109
it was the interview or the amount of meetings I had,
I had many, many meetings with the Department of
Business and Trade, UK Government Investments, the
Postmaster NEDs, so lots and lots and lots of meetings.
Prior to your appointment?
Yes.
Thank you. Do you know if it was or is expected to
become a permanent position?
I don't know. I mean, clearly, the Post Office needs
a chairman and -- well, I've not had any conversations
yet about whether this, you know -- when a permanent
chairman will be put in place.
Have you been told how long it is expected to be
an interim position?
Yes, it was 12 months from 24 May to 24 May next year.
Thank you. To what extent, so far as you're aware, was
your IT experience at Camelot relevant to your
appointment?
I don't think it was, actually. I'm not sure.
Was there something in particular that you achieved at
Camelot that you consider most important for this
particular role?
Well, I think, you know, the National Lottery operates
at enormous scale, 44,000 retailers, systems that have
to balance to the penny every day, operate with absolute
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In terms of your appointment, you've set out in your
witness statement that you were approached by the then
Minister Hollinrake in February this year; is that
correct?
That's right, yes.
Then you were formally appointed by the then Secretary
of State Badenoch?
Yes.
Did you know either the Minister or the Secretary of
State?
No, I did not.
Do you know why you were approached?
I don't know why I was approached, I imagine because of
my experience with Camelot.
Did you work with their department when you were at
Camelot?
No, it was a different department. Camelot -- the
National Lottery, is governed by DCMS, so a different
department.
Do you know if it was a competitive process --
I do not --
-- where interviews or anything along those lines --
I do not.
Did you have to submit a CV or --
Yes, I had to submit a CV. I must say, the -- whether
110
integrity, and we changed the systems in the UK a couple
of times, and in other markets. So I think the size of
the challenge, in terms of the Horizon replacement for
the Post Office in particular, I think my experience was
relevant, and is relevant.
In terms of the composition of the Camelot Board, and
comparing that to the Post Office Board, do you consider
that, on joining the Post Office, that there is
sufficient relevant expertise amongst Board members?
I think there's some very good Board members. I think
the Board members we have are excellent, actually but
there are some gaps, and we've just finished doing
a Board Skills Matrix assessment, and there are clear
gaps in technology. There is no expertise on the Board
in terms of technology. There is no expertise in the
Board in terms of business transformation, and also
I think we're lacking in kind of Civil Service/
Government expertise.
Can you assist us with what steps are being taken to
fill those gaps?
Yes, we're actively recruiting now. We've had a number
of applications for the technology role, and the
business transformation role. In fact, we had about 150
applications for the technology role. So it's proving
popular.
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Was that something that you implemented, that you
identified and came up with a solution, or is that
something that was already in train?
No, it's -- I think conversations were happening at the
Board in terms of the skills that were missing, but it's
something that I implemented.
One thing that you have said in your witness statement
is that, when people join the Board, they discover it
involves a lot more work than anticipated. Is that just
because of the Inquiry and the historic matters or do
you see that as a broader issue?
I think it -- it's a broader issue. I think the
governance within the company is not working as
effectively as it could, so I think too many matters,
quite frankly, go to the Board. I think too many
matters go to Non-Executive Directors to deal with on
a virtual daily basis, particularly around people. But
I do think it's temporary.
I think you have said that you were told that it was
going to be a two days a week position to be chair.
Realistically, how long do you spend in that role?
Much more than that. I'd say five days a week, not
constantly five days a week but pretty much the
equivalent of five days a week.
\s that sustainable?
113
teams as part of my induction. This covered the Post
Office's IT system at enterprise architecture level.
I asked [several] questions about Horizon and associated
business processes and controls and came away assured
that what has happened in the past in the IT system
cannot happen now."
Can you just assist us with who provided you these
briefings?
It was Simon -- sorry, I'm struggling with the names.
It was a former CTO and senior members of the technical
team. Forgive me, I can't think of the names. Chris
Brocklesby and his team, effectively.
Thank you. Could we please bring onto screen our YouGov
expert report, that's EXPG0000007. Can we turn to
page 19, please. You're aware of the circumstances of
the YouGov report and how we obtained the results?
Yes, I am.
Yes. Current subpostmasters were questioned, and these
are their responses, with regards to issues that they've
experienced with Horizon in the last 12 months: 70 per
cent experienced screen freezes: 68 per cent loss of
connection; 61 per cent issue with PIN pad; 57 per cent
experienced unexplained discrepancies.
If we please turn to page 28, we see there
"Frequency of experiencing an unexplained discrepancy
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Itis for the short term, yes.
When do you envisage the workload will reduce?
I think the key event is the implementation of the
strategic review that we're doing now, number 1, and,
number 2, when we fully implement the recommendations
from the Grant Thornton report and have the governance
within the Board and the company operating effectively
and efficiently.
How long do you imagine that's going to take?
Hopefully about three months.
Three months. Thank you.
I'd like to start by looking at the briefings you
received on becoming Chair. Can we please bring up onto
screen your witness statement, that's WITN11390100.
If we could start, please, on page 5. The bottom of
page 5. Thank you. If we scroll down, thank you. If
we could continue scrolling over the page, please, we
see there, in paragraph 12, at the bottom, in terms of
the Horizon System -- sorry, if we scroll down slightly
more -- you say:
“My understanding is that the same technical issues
and concerns [the ones that happened in the past] do not
apply to the current build.”
Paragraph 13, you say:
"I had a session with the Post Office technical
114
since January 2020", and we see 17 per cent experienced
unexplained discrepancies a few times a month; 18 per
cent at least once a month; 21 per cent once every two
to three months.
If we turn over the page, please, we can see how
discrepancies have been resolved, and 74 per cent of
those who had experienced discrepancies said that they
resolved those discrepancies themselves or using their
branch's own money.
In light of those findings, do you think that you
have been properly briefed about the current state of
the Horizon system?
The briefing I had, by its very nature, was very high
level, very high level, and we continue to look, and the
team continue to look at discrepancies in particular and
the operation of Horizon. You know, the Horizon system
is available 100 per cent of the time. This gets
reported to the Board. The number of defects is quite
low now, I'm told, through the data we get at the Board,
and I was under the impression that the dispute
resolution button now was dealing with most issues, but
clearly this data doesn't support that.
What we want to do and what we will do is now work
through the dispute resolution process and the
end-to-end process of how these discrepancies are
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arising because I think it's a function of three
things -- it's a function of the system, of cash and of
stock -- and I think we need to look at it end to end,
rather than just looking at the system. And Neil
Brocklehurst, who is now the acting CEO, we've talked
about that. We want to do that with postmasters.
Do you feel that the current experience of
subpostmasters in using the Horizon system is properly
understood at those levels within the business?
I don't know.
Has there been a discussion about this report and the
results?
Yes. We've talked -- well, the Executive Team have
talked about these results and, clearly, I think two
things spring out from the results: it's really
disappointing that this is still happening and somewhat
surprising. But what it does do, it allows us to now
take these findings and look at them in the context of
the strategic review that we're finishing and make sure
that the plan we're coming up with addresses them, and
also, of course, resetting the NBIT programme.
We'll get to the NBIT programme but, looking back at
your witness statement again and it says, "My
understanding is that the same technical issues and
concerns do not apply to the current build", and we saw
117
something that is mentioned in your witness statement 23
times. It sounds great, but can you assist us with what
it actually means?
Of course. When I was doing my due diligence before
accepting to become Interim Chairman, it became very
obvious to me that there was no strategy for the Post
Office at all and there hadn't been for a number of
years, and I think that's what -- one of many problems
but one of the big problems is causing a lack of
direction in the organisation. So one of my
preconditions with the former Secretary of State is
that, if I did agree to join, if she wanted me to join,
is that I was able to conduct a thorough strategic
review to look at the future of the business.
And, in doing a strategic review, you look at all
elements of the business and, over the last four months,
we've done that and last week the Board signed off
a plan for the future for the Post Office but, more
fundamentally, for postmasters, and we've passed that
plan to the Government now for review and approval.
If we could please turn to POL00448624. This is
a meeting of the Board of Directors, 4 June 2024 but
it's actually a document within this pack that I'd like
to take you to. It's page 109.
Is this where things began in terms of developing
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‘on screen there all of those similar issues to the ones
that we heard about during the Human Impact Hearings and
during other stages of this Inquiry. Do you think that
the business has a sufficient grip on those issues?
Well, I think the issues that -- on one of the previous
slides about screen freezes and, you know, systems do
freeze from time to time and systems do have issues.
The important thing is making sure the control
environment is adequate to deal with issues as they
arise and that the technical teams have got the proper
controls and support around them.
If we turn back, please, to page 19, it wasn't just
screen freezes, "Unexplained discrepancies", 57 per
cent, it seems like quite a high proportion of
subpostmasters experiencing not just discrepancies but
unexplained discrepancies. Do you think for the
business has a sufficient understanding of those kinds
of issues?
Based on that 57 per cent, no.
Your predecessor, Mr Staunton's, evidence was to the
effect that problems with Horizon were obvious to him
when he started. Is that a conversation that you've had
with Mr Staunton at all?
No, I've not spoken to him at all.
Moving on to the issue of strategy. Strategy is
118
a strategy?
Yes.
It is a firm called Teneo that was instructed by the
Post Office. Were you involved in instructing Teneo?
Yes.
Why Teneo?
I'd worked with Teneo in the past as part of the
turnaround of the -- of Camelot and the National Lottery
in 2017. I was very impressed with them, in terms of
their ability to get to grips with things pretty
quickly, and I thought that these would be an ideal
company to help us pull a plan together for the future.
We've seen in the Inquiry, especially in recent years,
a large number of external reviews and reports. We've
seen Grant Thornton, Ernst & Young, Accenture, now
Teneo, Why do you think Teneo is the one that's going
to work?
Well, I say that I'd worked with them before on a number
of occasions, actually, and the quality of the
individuals that they offered to work on this was really
high. And, again, you know, we've now finished the
review, we've now got the plan and I can assure this
Inquiry that the quality of the plan is very, very high,
in my opinion.
I think you've said you've handed it over to Government,
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the final review or final plan; is that a Teneo document
or Post Office document?
A. It's a Post Office plan, so the Post Office team worked
with Teneo to come up with a plan.
Q. Will there be a version of that plan that you can share
with the Inquiry in due course?
A. Yes, of course, if the Inquiry wants to see it, then
it'll be provided through the normal channels.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Just to check I've got it right, the Post
Office Board has now approved a strategic review --
plan, sorry, plan?
A. That's correct, Sir Wyn, yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: The next step is for the shareholder to
approve it?
A. Yes.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: What is your expectation about the
timescale over that process?
A. I have been pleasantly surprised at how quickly the
Government are reacting to this.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right.
A. I anticipate, but can't commit to, getting a decision in
a week or two.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right, okay.
MR BLAKE: As at today, is there any aspect, even as high
level as you like, that you're able to share with the
121
the Chairman and the GCPO". Is this a document that you
have received before being provided with it by the
Inquiry?
A. No.
Q. We'll go through some of the detail but is some of the
detail information that was provided to you before this
document was provided to you by the Inquiry?
A. I can't recall. I did read this document yesterday when
I received it, so I'm able to offer views on it, if you
would like.
Q. "[Non-Executive Director] Exit Interviews ...
"The following summary is the result of 3 interviews
carried out virtually on ... 1 March 2023."
So some time before you joined the company.
"The three interviewees were Carla Stent, Zarin
Patel and Lisa Harrington who have been in as a [Post
Office Non-Executive Director] role for between 3 and 7
years.”
Could we turn over the page, please. I'd just like
to test this alongside your own personal impression on
joining the Company.
A. Mm.
Q. “Leadership and Teamwork/Culture."
The results from their exit interviews are
summarised as follows:
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Inquiry in respect of overall strategy and direction of
the Post Office?
Yes. My going in hypothesis to this whole review was
that we needed to do two things: we needed a new deal
for postmasters, not just economically but in terms of
operationally; and, secondly, we needed to reverse the
polarity of the Post Office. And what I mean by that is
to put the postmasters at the centre, not the current
centre being at the centre, with the current centre
actually becoming, if you like, a service function
properly to the postmasters and, as I say, I can't go
into the detail because it's subject to Government
approval and is commercially sensitive because it
affects colleagues but what I can tell you is that we
have achieved those two objectives through the plan:
a new deal for postmasters and a change in the polarity.
I'd like to take you through a number of other reports
that have been obtained in recent years or reviews or
exercises, and to get your view as to whether they've
been addressed or not.
The first I'd like to bring on to screen is
POL00448681. These are exit interviews that occurred
before you took up your role. These are exit interviews
and the information, I think, was gathered by Ernst &
Young. It says, "Confidential - for the Attention of
122
"There are questions on how well set up the [Group
Executive] leadership team are for a business
turnaround -- specifically questions were raised about
the capability, the teamwork and the interactions with
the Board/[Non-Executive Directors]. Notwithstanding
the external pressures and constraints, governmental
changes/politics/shareholders, and competitor landscape
etc, there was a strong suggestion that the levels of
respect, trust, and ‘enterprise first’ thinking within
the [Group Executive] and also between the Board and the
[Group Executive] are a barrier to business success that
warrants further explanation."
Is that something that you have experienced since
joining the company?
Not exactly. I think -- the Group Executive, I mean,
was quite thin on the ground when I joined. We had no
CFO because the former CFO was on long-term sick, no
General Counsel. So quite large gaps in the team but
that's not something I particularly recognise.
The second paragraph is explained, I think that's
a reference to Mr Cameron. The third paragraph:
"With the context of the current enquiry especially,
there was a clear concern over whether lessons had/were
being learned and applied to prevent something similar
happening in the future. Concerns were clear about the
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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
lack of time/energy that leaders had, but also the
apparent underlying lack of trust/respect between
leaders and the lack of accountability (healthy support
and challenge)."
Again, is that something that you have come across?
I've certainly come across the lack of accountability.
Can you give us an example of that, please?
I don't think I can give specific examples, it's just
a theme that I'm seeing, and the way I'm seeing it
manifest itself is with the amount of materials that are
going to the Board. So I've listened to other witnesses
give evidence and I think talk about the Board being
overwhelmed with information, and that's something
certainly that I saw immediately. And I think the
reason that ties into accountability is people are not
making decisions, and are deflecting everything upwards
through the governance structures in the organisation,
so that lands at the Board.
Thank you. Can we go over the page, please, and over
the page again. Can we go to number 3, please. The
feedback there is:
"The Board is not really listened to. The Exec is
under real pressure and it is not sure they know how to
get the most out of the [Non-Executive Directors].
"There is not enough clarity on the role and
125
"It feels as though we are a bit of a rubber stamp.
‘on things."
Can you assist us with your views on that?
Well, I don't think the Board is risk averse; I think
the Board does its role properly in terms of considering
risks appropriately. If the rubber stamp relates to how
we work with Government departments, then I can assure
you I will not work in that way. I'm an independent
Chairman and we will operate as an independent Board.
Have you taken any steps, so far, that can demonstrate
that?
Yes, with the strategic review, where suggestions were
made that we might want to, you know, not be quite so
aggressive with the strategic review, in terms of the
things we wanted to implement and I refused to concede
and said "No, we're going to, as an independent Board,
come up with a plan which we think is the right plan for
the Post Office".
What do you mean by "suggestions were made"?
Just in terms of the level of funding that's required.
Who by?
It was just by officials that I spoke to in different
departments in Government, and it wasn't official
direction, let me be clear, this was just suggestions,
because I think a lot of decisions are driven by what
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expectations of the [Non-Executive Directors]/Board."
Slightly further down, it says:
“lam not sure we have the right calibre of team at
[executive] level, and therefore there is more chance
the [Non-Executive Director] gets involved in detail
when they shouldn't. Turnarounds need strong leaders
and leadership; with courage, energy and will to drive
change, and who can help the organisation believe.”
What are your views on that; have you experienced
any of those concerns?
I think it's part of the same -- the same issue. When
we talk about turnarounds, I think what we're talking
about now is implementation of the new plan that comes
from the strategic review and, clearly, you need leaders
with, you know, great leadership abilities. The thing
that we need to do is, once we've that the leadership
review hopefully approved, we'll look at the skills that
are required to implement that, we have an interim team
at the moment that are strong, and we will consider what
permanent roles we need in order to implement the plan.
But I do think the relationship between the
Non-Executive Directors and the Executives, certainly in
the few months that I've been here, is quite healthy.
Number 4 relates to the Board being risk averse. If we
scroll down, it also says:
126
the Treasury will fund, so what one tends to get is
advice in terms of what the Treasury might accept. But
I'm not prepared to do that. I mean, the thing is my
remit and our remit is to come up with the right plan
for postmasters, you know, for a new deal and to reset
the -- you know, and to change the polarisation.
So I couldn't do that if I'm hampered, so we've come
up with what I believe is the right plan.
We've heard some evidence of a begging bow! mentality,
whereby the Post Office have to beg the Treasury for
money to achieve any change or to achieve anything that
they want to achieve: is that your experience?
Not exactly. I think all of these examples of Treasury
short-term funding all come from the same problem: lack
of strategy. So because things have, you know, been
short-term, each decision has been a short-term
decision, it's therefore necessitated short-term funding
from the Treasury, and I don't know which one started
first, whether it was the Treasury saying "You can only
have money for three months", in which case short-term
decisions are made or, in fact, short-term decisions
were made that led to the Treasury funding it
short-term. But what I do know is the antidote to this
a proper strategy that is properly considered, funded
and implemented.
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You don't have to give us the figures involved but does
the strategy that you're going to be presenting or you
have presented, does that have a figure in mind that
will resolve the various issues?
Yes, it's fully costed, it's fully planned out. We know
exactly what we need to do.
Thank you. Number 5:
"Overall, for a variety of reasons (capability,
energy ...) the leadership probably isn't strong enough
for the demands the organisation is facing. Nick (and
the Exec) are the fixers, not the cause of the Horizon
situation, but his and their ability to remain rational
and focused is really being tested by his/their
attachment to the serious nature of the historical
issues and this is depleting energy and bandwagon for
the transformations.
"The Board and the Exec need to be better at
supporting each other. The level of teamwork is poor.
The Public Inquiry process is consuming and draining the
[Group Executive's] energy needed for the turnaround.
Be really clear and aligned on the messages for the
shareholder [regarding] the challenges ahead.”
Do you consider that there is sufficient energy
currently to achieve those objectives?
Yes, I think so. I think the interim people that were
129
"There is no obvious successor to Nick other than
D(CIO)..."
I'm not sure who that is but it says:
"... but he is far too stretched and needs to focus
‘on the platform. For the next 12 months there is a need
for someone who will perform a CEO [business as usual]
role (COO/CEO designate) given much of Nick's focus and
time will be spent on the [Inquiry].
"There are some ‘warning lights’ around the way work
is proceeding on the new platform ..."
We'll get on to the new platform.
Yes.
In terms of the CEO role, we know that Mr Read is going
to be stepping down; are you involved in succession
planning?
I will be. I will be.
Do you know if anything has taken place so far in that
regard?
No, not yet. I need to -- once this evidence session is
over, I need to turn my attention to speaking to UKGI
and DBT to start that process.
Irrespective of names, what kind of skills are you going
to be looking for?
I think the skills that we need are the ones that are
going to be determined by the strategic review. I think
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brought in recently have injected new energy into the
business.
Where have they been brought into?
Well, three individuals came from my team at Camelot,
and Preetha, who is with us today, came from John Lewis
and Heathrow Airport.
Thank you:
"There is a genuine concern that the Board are held
accountable for stuff that we don't actually have the
authority to decide on.
"Having learned from the [Postmaster Non-Executive
Directors] it shows how ‘out of touch’ our execs are.
They are not connected enough to the commercials and
definitely not in touch with the customer."
In your view, is the role of Non-Executive
Subpostmaster something that you would wish to continue:
do you think it's useful; or do you think some other
model might be appropriate?
I think it's, in answer to your question, absolutely
vital. One of the reasons that I agreed to join was the
conversations I'd had with Saf and Elliot and, in
particular, I had an amazing conversation with them for
an hour and they asked for my help based on my Camelot
experience, which is one of the real reasons I joined.
Can we scroll down, please. It says:
130
we need people with strong leadership teams; understand
how to work with an organisation that supports
an amazing social purpose; digital skills; retail
skills; and technology skills. So quite a broad remit.
Do you think such a person (a) exists and (b) would be
happy to join the Post Office at the level of pay?
Yes and yes.
Can we scroll down to number 9, please:
“What advice would you want to share with the
Chairman?
"Complete a great handover involving new and
‘outgoing [Non-Executive Directors] and extending to the
other Board members.
"Give clear and frank messages to the shareholder
(to help everyone internally and externally) appreciate
the situation [Post Office] is in ... and the ambition
moving forwards.
"Be decisive over the team. Have we got the right
CEO for a turnaround?
"Are there too many [Non-Executive Directors] ...
There doesn't feel like enough camaraderie in the Board
What is your view about the balance between
Executives and Non-Executives at Board level?
Well, we have no -- apart from Nick, who has resigned,
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we have no Executive Directors on the Board at the
moment. So that's something we need to address. So we
need the CFO to be a Board member and the acting CEO,
and that's something we're working on at the moment.
Can we scroll down, please, to number 11:
"Given that the [Post Office] is in need of
sustained transformation -- commercially and culturally,
(so it is set up to compete and be successful in the
market) there are questions about the fit of the Board
level [Group Executive] leadership.
"How well suited are they to drive of the
turnaround?"
Much the same as we've already been looking at.
Yes.
There's a concern there raised between the relationship
between Mr Read and Mr Cameron. Do you think there is
sufficient trust at Executive level and Board level in
the organisation?
It's difficult for me to answer that question, given
I've only been here a number of months but, certainly at
Board level, I found a really high level of trust
between Board members.
Thank you. The second document I'd like to look at is
something called "Group Assurance Chairman Update".
That can be found at POL00460606. This document is
133
and controls. This view has been communicated to both
RCC and ARC."
Then it says:
"So what? We had no choice to build our own Excel
based universes.
"Common Issue Judgment -- 365 lines;
"SPMP Integrated Assurance & Risk Universe -- 509
lines."
Am I right to understand from this that, as part of
their group assurance function, they were reviewing, for
example, the implementation of the Common Issues
judgment and had to do that on an Excel document?
I believe that's what the document says, yes. This was,
as you can imagine, quite a lot of detail for
an incoming Chairman to absorb, and in couple of weeks.
Stepping back, and just trying to remember that meeting,
what were the key concerns that were raised at this
meeting?
I think more generally, that the kind of control
universe or the control framework within the Post Office
was perhaps not as efficient as it could be, and what
I mean by that is that Assurance, Risk and Compliance
were all separate, as was Audit, and it seemed to me
that things were operating in silos and it would be much
better to put some things together to get a common view
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dated 16 May this year, so it pre-dates your
appointment, or your formal appointment, but you are
listed as an attendee of this meeting.
It's POLO0460606. Thank you.
Are you able to assist us with the background to
this document?
Yes, I was -- even though my official appointment was
24 May, I did start on 1 May with my induction and,
I have to say, I had a very comprehensive induction
programme that I worked through with the teams, and this
‘one was on 16 May which was my introduction to Sarah to
take me through how assurance worked.
Can we scroll down and look at paragraph 4. It says
there:
"Adopted a tactical and heavily manual approach to
Assurance due to the following gaps:
"a. No common universe definition and/or coverage
for [Post Office] activities ...
"Even IA do not have a comprehensive universe and
they were not assessing the sustainability and/or
impacts of the actions implemented for Issue
judgments -- a major cause of divergence between their
outcomes and ours!!!
"SNOW our GRC tool cannot be relied upon for
completeness and/or accuracy, with a lens of both risks
134
of how the control framework should work.
If we scroll over the page, they set out their key
issues and significant concerns. They say, “All of
these are easily fixable". One is "Lack of
accountability and consequence management":
"This is the single root cause of all issues in [the
Post Office]."
Is that something you agree with? Is that something
that's been taken forward?
I think I agree with it, actually. I think we said --
I said earlier there was a lack of accountability.
I think there was a lack of consequence management and
the reason say that is, when I look at some of the risks
that come to the Audit and Risk Committee, that are
moving quarter by quarter and not being resolved or
moved forward, I think that's an example.
So the risks are being identified at Board level but
aren't being resolved; why is that?
I think no, the risks are being identified within the
business and escalated through the Audit Committee to
the Board and, previously, they were not moving at
sufficient pace in terms of mitigation and resolution.
The reason for that is the sheer volume of priorities in
the business at the moment.
25 Q. Can you see that being resolved and, if so, how?
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A. Well, focus on the key priorities, number 1. I think
we've now very clear on what the key priorities of the
business are. Would it be helpful to describe those?
Q. Yes, briefly.
A. Well, you know, quite clearly there's two number 1
priorities: one is assisting this Inquiry with its
important work; and the second one is speeding up
mediation payments.
Our third priority is the strategic review, having
that approved by Government, implementing it as soon as
possible; fourthly, implementing the findings from the
Grant Thornton review in terms of governance, that's
something I'm hoping to have in place very quickly; and
then, finally, deciding what to do next with the NBIT
programme.
They're our kind of five priorities.
Q. Thank you. We'll just go through a few more of these
key issues and then we'll move actually onto the Grant
Thornton report and your reflections on that.
A. Okay.
Q._ The second is "Closed mindset -- Capability and
Competence":
"Lesson of the past at an inherent level are not
imbibed in the DNA of [the Post Office].
"Many seniors have a myopic lens on their role.
137
Disparate, illogical, and non-existent [versus]
good or even basic practice
"Responsible person is not a [Subject Matter Expert]
in this field.”
We have already heard evidence this morning about
a problem within the business those who were being asked
for their opinions were not the Subject Matter Experts
and perhaps a lack of a lack of Subject Matter Experts
being asked their views; is that something you
recognise?
A. Not particularly. I think context is important. So I'd
imagine, at an executive level, asking non-Subject
Matter Experts their opinions on things is sometimes
healthy because you get good debates. So it's not
something I particularly see.
Q. Thank you. Let's move on to the Grant Thornton review,
please. You've said in your statement and you've said
just now that there is a structured programme to
implement their recommendations; can you assist us with
what that involves and who is responsible for that?
A. So the Company Secretary is working through that at the
moment. So, as a Board, we agreed a plan. So of all
the actions in the Grant Thornton review -- and of
course there are many -- we have a plan to implement all
of those things and we're working through that, some of
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"Many are afraid to make decisions, therefore so
many committees.
“Newly created Leadership Team has excluded line of
defence -- Most illogical considering lessons of the
last and themes arising from the Inquiry."
Can you assist us with your understanding of that
and whether that is being resolved.
Itis being resolved. I mean, I have to be honest,
I don't quite understand some of that. The one
I certainly recognise is that many in the business are
afraid to make decisions. There is a fear culture and,
basically, what that means in practice is that many
decisions are escalated and eventually arrive at the
Board.
I think we see that under "Governance", number 3.
I think the third point there says:
"Despite [the Post Office] significant issues,
Board/ARC seem afraid to intervene or challenge overtly
for management to course correct."
Does that feed into that concern or is that
a separate concern?
No, it's part of the same concern where too much is
coming to the Board and I can assure you that I am
course correcting that.
Then "Operational level’, it says:
138
which we can implement before the strategic review is
agreed and some afterwards.
So the ones that we can kind of get on with -- and,
by the way, what I should say is that I thought the
Grant Thornton report was excellent. I mean, it's all
pretty much basic good governance but it was excellent
in terms of its detail.
So we're implementing everything we can, and then
those things that we need to wait for the strategic
review to be approved, we'll implement immediately
afterwards.
Thank you. Can we please turn to POL00446477 and that's
the Grant Thornton report.
The key findings are on page 7 and perhaps we can
turn to those, please.
The first one, "The lack of a unifying purpose and
group-wide strategy between [the Post Office] and its
shareholder”, is the strategic review the solution to
that?
Yes.
Second, is there anything else, other than the strategic
review that you'd point to address that issue?
No, but I think what the strategic review allows us to
do is have a proper conversation with Government
departments as to how the relationship should work but
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at least we have a strategy as a start point of the
conversation.
Number 2, “Conflict around the role of the Shareholder
versus the Board", that's one area we've heard quite
a lot of evidence on, the relationship between the Board
and UKGI and the Department for Business. What do you
see as the Board doing in respect of conflicts in that
relationship?
I haven't particularly seen this but that may be because
of the approach that I've taken, that we are
an independent Board and we will make our decisions
with, you know, input from Board members that represent
the shareholder, but we'll make our independent
decisions nonetheless. So I haven't really seen that,
I think I can understand from history where this might
have arisen but, again, I think the answer to this is to
have a clear strategy agreed with Government.
How do you see cultural issues being addressed between
the UKGI and the Post Office?
I don't currently see cultural issues, actually.
I think what we have to get to is a common goal, which
is a new deal for postmasters that I talked about, and
we have been working through achieving that common goal
and I have to say that I feel supported.
In your view, the role of a UKGI Non-Executive Director,
141
achieve. We will need organisation structure to support
that and an operating model. So, you know, what roles
do we need? Clearly, we need a CEO, clearly we need
a CFO, but what other types of roles and what types of
individuals and what types of experience will we need?
And we'll populate that from the start point of
implementing the plan, with the revised operating model
of how the business has to operate.
Are there likely to be more people recruited to senior
roles?
Possibly. And -- sorry, if I can just clarify that. It
depends on the definition of senior role. Do we need
perhaps more people at an Executive level? Probably.
But there are lots of layers of senior roles in the Post
Office and I think that's unusual.
Sorry, it's unusual for there to be so many people in
senior positions?
Yes.
Thank you. Number 4, "Decision making forums at
Enterprise level lack pace and do not enable
accountability". Have there been any changes insofar as
that is concerned, as far as you're aware?
Well, this is something that I and the Executive are
currently looking at as part of the whole governance
redesign. We have to re-engineer the governance to make
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does that work on the Board? So somebody who, for
example, spends all of their time on the Post Office,
has greater knowledge of Post Office affairs than
perhaps other Non-Executive Directors?
I think it depends on the individual. I think it can
work. I think with the wrong individual it might be
difficult but it -- certainly, from my experience,
I think it works. And it's not unusual. I mean, when
I was at Camelot we had shareholder representatives on
the Board, that 100 per cent owned the company and we
made it work. And, if you embrace it properly, you can
really make it -- you know, turn it to your advantage,
in terms of having somebody that can go back to the
shareholder that really understand the business
requirements.
Number 3, "Leadership capacity". Are there any specific
plans in place that you can point to to address that?
Yes. So structure follows strategy. So once the
strategy is approved, we have a clear structure that
we're going to populate with clear skills that are
required.
Can you assist us with what that means in plain English,
please?
Well, in plain English, we understand what the structure
is trying to — sorry, the strategy is trying to
142
sure the business, first of all, is taking
accountability and has the right decision making
ability, and making sure the various levels of
governance work, which currently, at the moment, to be
frank, they don't because too much comes to the Board.
Fifth, "Culture -- a lack of trust, accountability and
performance management". How do you envisage that can
be overcome?
I think culture is a really interesting topic and I know
‘one that this Inquiry has considered from various
different dimensions but I think it starts with purpose.
And I think, you know, can the culture be improved in
the Post Office by doing certain things better -- and
I think Karen this morning talked about some of the
things that she's doing -- yes. But I think that to get
a true step change in culture requires a resetting of
the purpose, which again a strategic review does and
I think a resetting of the purpose allows them to get
the right behaviours in place, and culture will follow.
What is that purpose, so far as you see it?
The social value, the purpose of the centre of the Post
Office is to support postmasters to support the
communities that they serve.
In your view, knowing what you know from the past, do
you think that there has been or is about to be some
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sort of step change in that?
There will be a step change. There will be a step
change but itll be through the strategic review when we
reposition the -- change the polarity of the business
and go back to first principles around purpose. And
I did this at Camelot. When I took over as CEO in
Camelot, belief in the Executive Team was 35 per cent,
which is not dissimilar, actually, to the scores we've
seen for the Post Office, at 36 per cent, I think.
When I left, assisted by some of the people that are
currently assisting me at the Post Office, it was at 96.
How do you see yourself as achieving that?
Pardon me?
How do you see yourself as achieving that?
I think it's the same steps. It's about having a plan
that goes back to the purpose of the Post Office and
a new deal for postmasters, a change in polarity, having
the right people operating in the right way, behaving in
the right way to the right values. Culture follows.
Are there any concrete steps outside of your own
strategic review that you can draw to the attention of
the Chair that you consider would change the culture in
the Post Office?
I know that the Executive Team at the moment are working
hard to try to change the culture and I think we —
145
about is an anonymous letter that we've seen already
today. It's POL00448519. Was this a letter that came
to you very early on in your time at the Post Office?
Is it a letter you saw very early
Yes.
I won't go through it again. If we turn over the page,
we can go just see there is something addressed to you,
penultimate paragraph, that says:
"Mr Railton, please look at the above and
investigate. If you can, you should engage with some of
the past employees (particularly [Mr] Staunton and
[Mr] Cameron). Our view is that those who have left
under a cloud are the ones telling the truth."
Is that something that you've personally
investigated; are there conversations that you have had?
I haven't spoken to Mr Staunton or Mr Cameron, no. When
I received this letter, and I think it was dated four
days after I officially started, I took advice from the
SID, and I went through this and stepped through it
because I thought it was also a useful learning
experience for me to understand what happened in the
past. I was assured -- and we put it into the proper
investigation process.
What came back was that the vast majority of all of
these claims had already been investigated and there was
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incremental changes can be made, you know, where people
start to -- I mean, people do -- many conversations
I hear about postmasters. So that's good thing. But
I think rather than just incremental change, I think we
need wholesale change, and that will come through the
strategic review.
I'm getting quite a few answers that are just looking
forward to the strategic review. It would be helpful
for the Inquiry to know at least some steps that you
have in mind to change something so fundamental as
culture.
I can't really tell you the things that I'll do in the
next month or two because I'm the Chairman and it's
really a role for the Executive but I know that Neil
Brocklehurst and the Exec Team, and Karen, are focused
‘on this. So I think, yes, we can change the culture,
and perhaps we can change behaviours in the short-term.
What I'm talking about is truly embedded culture, that's
what I'm really talking about. It will only come
through the step change that's right allowed through the
strategic review.
Are we to expect something fundamental to change as
a result of the strategic review?
Yes.
Thank you. The fourth document I'd like to ask you
146
one or two that required a bit more investigation, which
happened very quickly and through the proper process,
and this basically included no further action.
Thank you. That can come down.
I'd like to now move on to the topic of NBIT.
You've said in your statement, and it's a paragraph
we've already been over, that you have been told that
what has happened in the past in the IT system can't
happen again now. Are you familiar with the Inquiry's
hearings in Phase 2 of the Inquiry that looked at the
original procurement of the Horizon system?
I'm not, I'm afraid. I'm sorry.
Could we please turn to POL00460593. This is an email
from Mr Bartlett to you dated 27 June this year. It'll
come up on the screen in a moment. I'd just like to
take you through it. He's identified a number of
different investigations that, at that point in time,
were ongoing, relating to the NBIT system.
Mm.
I'd like to take you through each one of those. Before
1 do, what were you told initially about the progress of
the NBIT scheme?
As part of my induction, I was told that the programme
was on track and progressing well. I struggled to
reconcile that to another briefing I'd had that the
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project was now going to cost 1.2 billion against
a budget of 180 million, and deliver in 2028 against
an expectation of 2024. So the two things were in
conflict for me.
Why do you think that is?
I don't know. I don't know. I think perhaps it was
people were confident about the revised plan, whereas my
reference point was the original plan. So perhaps that
was the reason for the improved confidence in the
revised plan.
Do you think you were being given correct information
initially?
It's very difficult to assess because I was really new,
and I was presented with a lot of data and a lot of
information. So it's difficult for me to answer that
question. I imagine people were presenting me with the
data they thought was relevant.
I'll just have a read through this and I'll take you
through each of the allegations. Mr Bartlett says:
"Nigel, when Sarah and I met with you to brief you
on A&Cl's work, we discussed Project Willow2 and the
Speak Up reporting we have periodically received over
the last year that gave us a qualified insight into the
NBIT programme. You asked for a brief on the topics
being reported to us. Claire Hamilton, the Speak Up
149
"That two senior engineers ‘pressured’ two IT
security/assurance personnel to disable or waive infosec
checks in NBIT's specifications to save time in the
project's rollout (Comment: [Grant Thornton] are
focusing on evidence/testing this and understanding the
specific impact if it did occur)."
So it seems the second allegation is that something
was disabled in order to save time.
Mm.
Something in ~
I think both of these investigations are ongoing but,
certainly, what I'll also say is that these allegations
raised my interest in whether or not the programme and
the project was going in the right direction.
I mean, this is June this year.
Mm.
Have you been provided with a substantive update in
relation to any often these projects, any of these
investigations?
No.
Is that of concern to you?
Perhaps it should be but I've been more concerned with
making sure we understand what's happening with the
project and I think some of these things perhaps explain
why the project is over-spent and late but I haven't
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Team Manager has helpfully prepared the below which
I hope is a useful summary.
“Willow2
"This is a two-strand substantive investigation
relating to concerns raised by multiple Speak Up
reporters concerning NBIT. Pinsent Mason and Grant
Thornton have been commissioned by [Post Office] to
investigate these two allegations:
“Allegation One:
"That certain [Post Office] staff were aware of
problems with the NBIT system and that progress reports
to senior stakeholders including Nick and the [Group
Executive] may not have been reliable.
"In April 2024, further information received in
relation to the upward passing of information and
decision making at senior level in respect to known
errors in the NBIT system.
"It is to be determined if high severity defect
information that was channelled upwards in an email to
SteerCo prior to rollout may have been deliberately
misleading."
Are you able to assist us with the status of that
investigation at all?
I'm not, I'm afraid. I'm not.
“Allegation Two:
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chased up on the progress against the allegations, but
I will after this session.
"General concerns relating to NBIT team/activity raised
via Speak Up.
"The following are grouped themes of various
information passed by a variety of reporters to Speak Up
over the last year that discuss NBIT:
“Behaviours
“Behaviours and activities were driven by timescales
linked to bonuses rather than delivery of quality and
reliability, ie perverse incentives (comment: this is
now several months old so unsure if this is still
occurring but it is corroborated in the Willow2
investigation).
"Mirroring very senior staff behaviour (Zdravko and
Gareth Clarke), there was poor or lack of effective
communication between key staff around governance of the
programme.
"[Third] Active discouragement by senior NBIT staff
relating to the use of Speak Up channels (comment: one
allegation was made relating to detriment resulting from
Speaking Up (an offence under the PIDA if proved) --
this was investigated and no grounds found to support
the concern)."
So there seems to be a result in relation to the
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final bullet point.
Mm.
But, in relation to those first two, are you aware of
any results from those investigations?
I am not at this stage, no.
If we scroll down, "Accenture":
“Collective confidential reports received raising
concerns/issues about Accenture and conflicts of direct
awarding by CB ..."
That's Mr Brocklehurst?
Brocklesby.
Brocklesby, sorry:
... with CB being ex-Accenture, without anyone
looking at the bigger mapping picture of key positions/
activity held/performed by Accenture."
Are you aware of any developments in that regard?
It's all part of our review. I think we are too reliant
on Accenture.
I think this possibly feeds into the final section, if
we scroll down. There's a section there on "Reliance on
third parties generally":
"Need to be setting the conditions for [the Post
Office] to be ready to run the system once rolled out
which includes [Post Office] staff gaining relevant
skills, understanding and knowledge during the design
153
thought in terms of the background to this?
Absolutely.
So the first thing I ask myself is: how did we ever get
to a position where we're building a system internally?
And from doing some research, going back to 2021,
I think there were two decisions that were made that
were fundamentally the wrong decision with the benefit
of hindsight: one was the objective to get off Horizon,
which is different than building a system for the
future; and the second one was the decision to build
inhouse. And I think we'll -- you know, people in the
room will all be -- you know, have heard the horror
stories of tying to build things inhouse, IT systems,
particularly if you haven't got all the components in
place to do so and the right conditions. So I think,
based on my assessment, that this was always set up to
fail in the first place.
And, you know, building an old Horizon system can
never be the right thing to do. So what we need to do
as part of reset is to think about what do we need to
build? And clearly we need to build a system for the
future. Now, I'm hopeful that much of the technology
that's been built to date we can reuse but we have to
build to the outcomes of the strategic review. And to
give an example of that, we need to, for example, build
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and build programme. Concerns are being raised that
[the Post Office] has become reliant on third parties
and so [Post Office] staff are not going to be able to
effectively take over during the end transition.
"The matter of cost of third parties is also being
raised as a significant concern -- this is being
compared to the NHS being reliant on Locum Staff,
therefore not having the monies to continue as [business
as usual].”
Is this something you received an update on or
investigation into?
I recognise it and it is something that we are actively
thinking about how do we do differently. So, to this
point, to this point, 80 per cent of all people all
staff working on the NBIT replacement are contractors.
Only 20 per cent are permanent. And, of course, when
you only get contractors working on things like this,
they're, by their nature transient and you don't, you
know, we keep information and skills, and they are
generally expensive which is why we need to reset the
whole programme.
Is this part of the strategy review or is that
a separate issue?
No, it is part of the strategic review. So we need
to -- would it be useful if I give a little of my
154
to the bank's requirements and what the banks need,
rather than just building old technology.
So that's what we're going to do.
When is that achievable by?
I don't know today but I will know soon. So we have
a team of people now looking at this and, within the
next two to three months, we'll have a firm view on what
we need to build, how we need to build it, how much it's
going to cost, and when it'll be delivered by.
Are we talking five years, ten years?
No, no, it'll be -- our objective is to do it -- if you
think about the prior objective which was 1.2 billion in
2028, it'll be before 2028 and it won't cost 1.2 billion
add we'll have far more certainty that it will be
delivered.
What do you currently see as the main issues with the
NBIT system?
The NBIT design?
Yes.
I think the main issue is we're building the old Horizon
system, which -- now, the moment that decision was made
in 2021, it was out of date because Horizon was, you
know, Horizon is out of date. We need to build for the
future. That's number 1. I think the main other issue
is building it inhouse. There must be a better way.
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In respect of Horizon, as it currently is operated by
Fujitsu, can we please turn to POL00448864. This is
a meeting of the Group Executive. It's before your
time, 13 March 2024 but we'll see how it leads into
a subsequent meeting that you were involved in.
If we could please turn to page 6, we have there
a section on “Fujitsu Extension", and it says:
"[Simon Oldnall] spoke to the paper which set out
the current position on the discussions to date
(including with Government) on the continuation of
Support Services for the Horizon platform by Fujitsu
beyond March 2025, when the current contract was due to
end.
"The extension was proposed to cover the intervening
period before the rollout of NBIT.
"While discussions were ongoing, Fujitsu had not yet
made any commitment to continuing the support and
against the context of the current external scrutiny,
was unlikely to do so without the express support of the
Government."
Just pausing there, I know this wasn't a discussion
that you were party to. What do you understand by that?
By support of the Government?
Yes.
My understanding is that Fujitsu wanted the Department
157
[Simon Oldnall] spoke to the paper outlining the
proposal for a 5-year exit plan for Fujitsu.
[Mr Oldnall] advised that the Board were being asked to
include in the strategy a stage where if NBIT was not
completed within the term of the extension that the
Company would put in place an alternative approach to
supporting the Horizon platform to make sure that
Fujitsu was still able to exit at the 5-year point. SJ
queried what the alternative approach would constitute.
SO advised that the Horizon platform could be brought
inhouse or procurement taken for external support for
the platform. [Mr Oldnall] estimated that it would be
18 months to 2 years when a decision would need to be
taken on this point .
So as at your first Board meeting, it appears that
there was discussion about maintaining Horizon beyond
the contracted date but either bringing it inhouse or
having another firm support Horizon; is that a correct
summary of that?
Yeah, well, I think the extension of Fujitsu for up to
five years had been the conversation that had been
‘ongoing for a while and, to be clear, an extension of
Fujitsu is absolutely necessary to keep going. I'm not
sure whether the conversation was about an extension
beyond the five years or not but, certainly, at the same
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of business to ask them directly to extend the contract,
rather than it coming from the Post Office to ask them
to extent the contract. That's my understanding.
Do you know the reasoning behind that at all?
I don't. I can only imagine it might help their
discussions in going back to Japan to get approval for
this, but I'm speculating.
"Subject to the position being settled, funding for the
contract extension formed part of the SPMP business
case."
So it looks as though, in March 2024, the Post
Office was looking to extend the Fujitsu contract beyond
March 2025, and I'm going to take you to a Board meeting
in which you were present, that's POL00448648. Was this
your first Board meeting, 4 June?
Yes, and I was an observer at this meeting.
If we scroll down, we can see there, it says:
".., [Nigel Railton] opened the meeting. Given the
very recent appointment of [Nigel Railton], the Board
agreed that [Ben Tidswell] preside as Chair of the
meeting.”
Can we please turn to page 11. It's the bottom of
page 11, bottom half, "Horizon continuity of service
update", and there's a discussion there about the future
of Fujitsu and Horizon:
158
meeting, a conversation about potentially bringing
elements of the Horizon platform inhouse I recall was
discussed.
"[Mr Jacobs] queried whether we should we not be working
towards this scenario. CB advised that a high level
plan and cost to execute had been presented however the
team did not want to go down that path at present given
the commitment Fujitsu was requesting.
"[Here we have you querying] whether there were any
termination points proposed in the extension.
[Mr Oldnall] replied that there were not, and CB
contributed that there were core services that would be
provided for the entire term however there were certain
services that could be terminated.”
Can you assist us with that discussion?
Yes, I was just -- I found it surprising that we were
committing to a five-year contract when our objective on
the old plan was to be on our own system by 2028. So
I was just questioning whether or not break clauses
needed to be in the contract to allow us flexibility.
We then have an action point:
"[You] queried the maximum cost for the contract
extension. SO replied and advised that he would check
the cost if all services aside from the core services
were removed."
160
(40) Pages 157 - 160
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I think that's Mr Ismail:
"_. queried why the extension was not proposed for
3 years given the programme build was tracking to
complete in 2026. CB advised this was proposed in order
to provide some contingency. [Mr Ismail] tested this
further and pointed out the risk of the Company being on
a new platform yet still paying service fees to Fujitsu.
CB reiterated the point in respect of seeking
a contingency."
We then have, over the page, you again querying
whether you can negotiate a break clause, so that's the
point, I think, you've just raised.
Yes.
Mr Woodley advising that the team could take this away
and look at a five-year extension with a three-year
break:
"[Mr Ismail] noted the communications on the
extension needed to be executed with precision in
relation to postmasters and the public. CB advised that
he understood this ..."
Then we have "ACTION":
"[Mr Railton -- so you] asked for a session with SO
to discuss what owning the source code encompassed ..."
Can you assist us with what's meant by owning the
course code in the discussion that took place there?
161
Well, just bringing Fujitsu inhouse just suggests that
we're going to take everything Fujitsu do, in terms of
processes, data centre and everything, and just bring it
inhouse and basically manage what they do now. What
we're looking at a blend to say "Look, are there some
things that Fujitsu do today that make sense to continue
and we don't have to change?" I think an example I give
is, you know, the interfaces we have with the banks, for
example, and they have. They work currently, there
would be no point in rebuilding those, so that's
something we might keep.
Equally, we might want to change some of the
infrastructure or, you know, some of the Transaction
Processing elements of it.
If we scroll down:
"The Board RESOLVED that:
"Subject to seeking a 3-year break provision, the
proposed strategy for an extension of up to 5 years of
the Horizon Support contract with Fujitsu from 1 April
2025 until 31 March 2030 be and is hereby APPROVED; and
"The inclusion of a binding commitment to Fujitsu
that an alternative approach to supporting the Horizon
platform through commencement of a programme to
insource/reprocure elements be activated if there is not
sufficient time within the term extension to fully
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A. Yeah, I think that perhaps owning the source code is
perhaps not the best description of the conversation
that we were going to have. It was really trying to
understand what the team actually meant by insourcing
Fujitsu. Because that can be many things. And I was
a little confused, so I was trying to understand there
what that actually meant in practice. Was it all of the
source code, with all of the systems, all of the
processes? That's really what that was relating to.
Q. Is there a possibility that, at some point after the
conclusion of the contract with Fujitsu and before the
NBIT system, in some -- somehow, the Post Office will be
taking responsibility for the Horizon system itself?
A. I think -- well, it's a possibility, yes. But we have
to extend the contract. We have no choice. We need
optionality to be able to get out of the Fujitsu
agreement at the appropriate time for both parties. We
are looking at all options in terms of how to bring,
effectively, the functionality that we currently have by
using the Fujitsu system within our control.
So I think the wrong description is bring it
inhouse. I think perhaps a better description is
developing something that we can use ourselves.
Q. What's the difference between those two descriptions?
Sorry.
162
migrate from Horizon to NBIT be and is hereby APPROVED."
Can you assist us with what the present position is,
in relation to that?
A. The conversations with Fujitsu are ongoing.
Q. We've seen, in the YouGov report, for example, and in
evidence that the Inquiry has heard, of issues still
being experienced by subpostmasters in relation to their
use of Horizon. Is it possible, is it likely, that
subpostmasters are going to be using that same system
into 2030?
A. Itis possible. I don't think it's likely and certainly
our intention and the intention of the new team is to
move away from Horizon to a new system that can
deliver -- I'm sorry to go back to the strategic review,
but a system that's fit for the future, as soon as
possible. But to do that in a way that doesn't disrupt
postmasters' activities.
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
Sir, that might be an appropriate time to take our
mid-afternoon break.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes.
MR BLAKE: Can we come back at 3.35, please.
(3.16 pm)
(A short break)
(3.35 pm)
164
(41) Pages 161 - 164
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MR BLAKE: Mr Railton, we spoke before the break about
prop
Horizon potentially continuing for another five or
potentially even more years, and also the possibility
that certain aspects may come inhouse. What do you
envisage so far as Prosecution Support, in those
circumstances?
From Fujitsu?
Well, from Fujitsu, yes.
I don't know.
Have you seen the recent correspondence, between Mr Read
and Fujitsu, regarding their involvement in Prosecution
Support?
I was provided with some documentation, I think, on
Thursday.
Yes.
Which was an exchange between Nick Read and Fujitsu this
year. That's the correspondence you're referring to,
yes --
Itis, yes, is that something that had been brought to
your attention before this Thursday?
Not particularly. Clearly, I enquired when I received
the documentation and my understanding is it's
information that's required by the Met Police and the
City of London Police into an investigation that
involves organised crime and that's why they approached
165
"As the Post Office is well aware, there have been
and there continue to be bugs, errors and defects in the
Horizon system. Further, [Fujitsu] currently has, and
previously had, access to branch transaction records.
Your letter of 30 May 2024 also acknowledges the
existence of other matters (beyond the Horizon system)
which could have operated to create innocent
discrepancies in branch accounts including '...
mis-keys, or omissions when remitting cash or stamp
stock based on Horizon data ...' by end users."
He then goes on to say:
"_. the Horizon system is reliant on the delivery
of serviced by Post Office and third parties
Over the page, please:
"Based on the evidence which has been seen and heard
in [the Inquiry], [Fujitsu] considers that all of the
matters mentioned above would need to be investigated
carefully by the Post Office and the police, with the
assistance of an independent technical IT expert, and
possibly also forensic accounting expert, to ascertain
proper explanations for branch account discrepancies.
[Fujitsu] considers that only after such
an investigation has been undertaken could a meaningful
expert witness statement be made in subsequent criminal
proceedings which addresses the reliability of the
167
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8 October 2024
us and Post Office -- we went to Fujitsu and asked them
as well to help provide this data. But that's as far as.
I am aware of the situation.
Perhaps we can bring onto screen some of the
correspondence. I won't take you to all of it because
we have dealt with it with other witnesses, but can we
please turn to FUJ00243204. This is the letter from
Fujitsu, from Mr Patterson to Nick Read. If we scroll
down, there's a reference there to Mr Bartlett's letter
or email, and that's a document that we've seen and
a document that was also in your pack.
Mm.
It says:
"Mr Bartlett suggests that a failure to provide
a witness statement would ‘rightly be interpreted by the
police and prosecutors as [the Post Office] and Fujitsu
not having faith in the reliability of the data with the
obvious outcome resulting.”
Mr Patterson says:
"A witness statement from [Fujitsu] attesting to the
reliability of the Horizon system and of data from it in
criminal proceedings would amount to expert opinion
evidence. [Fujitsu] is incapable of providing expert
opinion evidence as it is neither independent nor has it
sufficient information to provide such an opinion.
166
Horizon system and the relevant data produced. For the
reasons I have mentioned above, [Fujitsu] cannot provide
such a statement.
"As to your comments regarding the pursuit of
shortfalls, [Fujitsu] will continue to deliver its
contractual obligations including reporting promptly and
transparently branch impacting incidents. It is for the
Post Office to work with postmasters to understand and
resolve branch account discrepancies fairly and
promptly. The improvements you mentioned to your
discrepancy investigation processes I hope will allow
for this to happen. You say in your later that Horizon
data is not currently being used for civil recoveries
from postmasters. This is reassuring. For the
avoidance of doubt, [Fujitsu] will not support the Post
Office in the event it pursues civil recoveries from
postmasters."
Do you understand from this and from the discussions
you have had, that the current position is that Fujitsu
will not provide a witness statement for criminal
prosecutions, even if requested to do so by the police?
I'm not sure that's entirely correct. I understand that
they will provide it if the police ask them. That's my
understanding of the situation. I do find some of the
comments made by Fujitsu here quite strange, actually,
168
(42) Pages 165 - 168
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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
given that we and postmasters rely on the system. We
have a system of controls to give us all comfort that
things are working with integrity. But I am speaking to
Paul on Thursday, so I will test this with him.
In respect of not supporting the Post Office in the
event it pursues civil recoveries, is that your
understanding that that is the current position?
I think so.
We can see a response from Mr Woodley. That's
FUJ00243209. Mr Woodley responds to that
correspondence. If we scroll over the page, he explains
in that paragraph there, the final section of the first
paragraph:
"The feedback they received in April 2024 was that
the Police that only been able to have one conversation
with [Fujitsu] at that time and the investigation
officer's impression from that conversation was that
they were indirectly being told by [Fujitsu] that the
Horizon system was unreliable. As a result, the Police
told the AC&l Team that the investigation could not
progress.”
Over the page, I'm just going to read to you a few
relevant passages. It says at the top of that page, "To
get the right checks and balances" -- this is under the
heading "Criminal investigations and prosecutions".
169
paragraph but, in the second paragraph, he says:
"I do not intend to engage further with the Post
Office on the matters I raised. We completely trust in
Sir Wyn and the Inquiry process which will examine the
extent of the Post Office change in Phase 7.
"You will recall that I have state publicly Fujitsu
does not wish to extend the contract with the Post
Office and your letter has reinforced the challenges we
have as an organisation with continuing to do business
with the Post Office. As agreed some months ago with
Nick, we wish to continue to prioritise the necessary
work on exit and the Post Office has tired an external
person who starts in August to take responsibility for
this. While there have been several workshops to scope
‘out the 5-year request, your statement when we met
regarding a 2-year request needs rapid attention from
the Post Office. Dan Walton has arranged an initial
meeting with Neil on 25 July, to address his technical
questions and there is a workshop with the other Post
Office personnel to update Dan on the 2-year
requirements."
Is there, in your view, an impasse between the Post
Office and Fujitsu currently?
I think when I step back and read this correspondence,
there's certainly a breakdown in the relationship.
171
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8 October 2024
Right.
"To get the right checks and balances in any of these
investigation processes, data will be required from the
Horizon system along with analysis of any bone bugs,
defects or errors in the system at the relevant time
period. Thank you for confirming that such data will be
provided in line with contractual obligations and in
cooperation with law enforcement agencies.”
It then addresses the postmaster shortfalls and
Mr Woodley, in the final sentence of that first
paragraph, says:
"... I[was concerned about your statement that
[Fujitsu] would not support the Post Office in the event
it pursues civil recoveries from Postmasters.
"While Post Office does not currently take civil
recoveries action to recover established losses from
Postmasters, this may be necessary in future to
establish a fair, transparent and consistent approach to
recoveries. Critically, this would only be undertaken
in the future with the wide endorsement of the
Postmaster community and robust independent assurance."
Before I ask you about this, I'd just like to turn
to the response from Mr Patterson. That's at
FUJ00243211.
We've seen this letter, so I won't go over the first
170
I think that's evident. I think there has been
an impasse. But I'm hopeful now that we can
breakthrough that impasse with Neil Brocklehurst as now
the acting CEO, working with Paul Patterson at Fujitsu
to now break this and come up with something that's
sensible for Fujitsu and sensible for the Post Office
and postmasters because we have to continue with the
system, post-March. We have no choice.
What is your view, having seen this correspondence?
My view on --
Of the nature of the relationship between Fujitsu and
the Post Office?
I think it's strained.
What's your view on the approach by Fujitsu as set out
in this letter?
I think it's quite defensive. I think they are clearly
making statements for the benefit, I think, of this
Inquiry perhaps. I don't know, I'm not close to it.
But I also understand from others that Paul is a very
reasonable guy and Fujitsu are very reasonable as
a company and I'm hopeful that, with the right
conversations, we can find something that works for both
organisations.
If you move away from Fujitsu, in the way we've already
discussed today, prior to the start of NBIT, to some
172
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extent, what is the plan for assisting the police or
assisting in civil recoveries?
A. I don't know the answer to that question, I'm afraid,
but clearly we would -- any design that we have for the
use of, you know, the Fujitsu system or components of it
‘or NBIT, we'll have to make sure we can comply with our
legal obligations to provide data and information as
required.
Q. Because there's going to be a number of years, possibly
five, possibly more, in which the Horizon system is
still going to be used. How do you see the Post Office
as overcoming issues and being able to provide evidence
to criminal prosecutions and undertake civil recoveries?
A. On the first element of that -- of the question, our
intention is not to stay on Fujitsu for another five
years and certainly not beyond. I think our objective
is to move away from the Fujitsu system, as soon as
reasonably possible, and put in place the right system
for the future.
I need to go away and consider this more. It's
quite a lot to consider here but, you know, we will as
an organisation make sure we comply with, you know, the
requests from the police, particularly on things such as
we discussed this afternoon about, you know, issues that
have been raised from the City of London and the Met
173
A. That's right.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: That's correct, isn't it?
A. That's correct, and the Post Office will no longer
prosecute ever again anybody.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So it's simply a question -- not
a question -- it's simply the Post Office being asked to
cooperate with the police investigation, and I would
have thought the answer would always be, "Yes"?
A. Absolutely.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right. The second scenario is that you,
the Post Office, come into possession of information
which suggests that a crime has been committed against
the Post Office --
A. Mm-hm.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: _ -- forget whether it's a postmaster or
any other person, but you have the initial information.
My understanding so far is that, in those circumstances,
your own Investigation Department would investigate
whether or not such an offence may have been committed.
A. I think that's the start point, from my understanding.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Sure, fine. Then they would get to the
point where they would, for these purposes, conclude
that there is evidence to support an allegation of
acrime?
A. Yes.
175
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Police. I think what we need to do is come up with
a sensible compromise and sensible solution, working
with Fujitsu, and I'm confident we can.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I am seeing this at the moment very much
with a criminal lawyer's hat on, all right --
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = -- as opposed to the relationships
between you and Fujitsu. But there are two possible
scenarios that I just want to ask you to consider with
me. The first is that, completely independently of the
Post Office, the police obtain information which
suggests that a crime has been committed against the
Post Office, and we'll say it's a financial crime of
some sort --
A. Yes.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = -- which will require financial
investigation, right?
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So they come to the Post Office and say,
"We have this information, we want to investigate. This
is what we want from you". In my mind, the answer is
obvious, “Here it is".
A. Agreed.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Right, because you are currently not in
the business of prosecuting anyone.
174
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Now, my understanding -- and this is
where I want your confirmation about it -- is this: that
at that point it would actually be a Board decision as
to whether or not a report was made to the police of
that suspicion, in effect?
A. That is correct and I know this --
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: That's your understanding as well.
A. Yeah, it is my understanding and I think it's correct.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = That's correct.
A. I think there was some debate about whether or not this
moved away from the Board, from correspondence that I've
read.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Exactly so. So I've got it right. So
let us assume that the Board says "Yes, on the basis of
what you tell us, we think this should be reported to
the police".
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Thereafter, as I see it, as a criminal
lawyer, the process becomes identical to scenario
number 1: the police become the investigators and you
simply cooperate with whatever they ask you for?
A. Exactly, exactly.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Right. Now, you're not Fujitsu but can
you think of any reason why any company which is asked
for information by the police, short of something being
176
(44) Pages 173 - 176
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incredibly commercially sensitive or something like that
for the moment, but in the normal run of cases, why they
wouldn't just say, "Yes, Detective Inspector Williams,
since you've asked me for that information, I'll go and
get it and provide it for you"?
I find it odd.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Right. Okay, thank you.
MR BLAKE: Moving on to our final topic, and that's
A
a
compensation and redress.
Yes.
You have advocated for that work to move to within the
Department for Business. How do you envisage that
working?
To be clear, I've advocated that the Post Office don't
do redress. Where it goes to is not my decision but
basically my position since I joined was that the Post
Office should not be dealing with redress and payment of
compensation. For reasons that I think some people
don't trust the Post Office still.
I've had conversations with various officials and
those conversations continue. So I don't yet have
confirmation that it will move it, but I'm hopeful it
will at some point.
One of the complaints about compensation and redress is
that it's taking too long. Won't that just slow things
177
takes time and people, and it's very difficult to scale
a process that requires people. And we know that, you
know, hopefully we'll have more and more postmasters
coming forward with claims.
So I think the way to think about scaling it is to
automate that process. There must be a way of taking
an historic database and writing database queries and
programs that can get this information for us very, very
quickly, so we can turn these things around much more
quickly. So that's my objective.
I need to now talk to the team and people who.
actually know how to do this but, at a logical level,
that would seem sensible to me.
The final document I'd like to look at this afternoon is
BEIS0000793. This a briefing for the then Minister
Hollinrake in April this year. It's a briefing for his
meeting with Nick Read.
Mm.
If we could turn over the page, please, there's
a section at the bottom of that page on background that
addresses your appointment. It says:
"Background: Nigel Railton accepted the role of
Interim Chair following a conversation with [the
Secretary of State] last week. [The Secretary of State]
has previously provided Mr Railton with her priorities
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8 October 2024
down yet further and kick it down the road?
One of my objectives and one of the team's objectives is
to speed things up, at I think having two organisations
dealing with basically the same thing but having two
organisations, cannot be the most effective way of doing
something. I also was interested in the conversation
this morning about redress and how the team works and
I've spent quite a lot of time with Simon Recaldin,
talking about how we can speed this up, and I think we
can automate far more, is one of my -- that's one of my
objectives now, given, post-my giving evidence today, to
go back and work with the Executive Team and see how we
can speed things up by automation.
I don't know but I can't understand why everything
is so manual. I think there's better ways of doing
things.
Can you give us an idea of what you mean by automation
in terms of compensation or redress?
Sure, of course. Well, at the moment, as I -- and this
is my understanding because I haven't been into the real
kind of detail on this, but we have a whole bunch of
people -- I think Karen talked this morning about 110
but, I think there's more when you look at the wider
team, who are manually accessing databases or old
database information to look for shortfalls and that
178
for Post Office which include (i) intensifying existing
workstreams to address [the Post Office's] historic
failures, (ii) support cultural transformation and
improving [Post Office's] capacity, capability and
resilience at all levels, and (iii) enabling the future
success of [the Post Office], including through
effective financial management and deliver of NBIT."
First of all, are those still the Secretary of
State's priorities, even though we have a new Secretary
of State?
Broadly, yes.
Can you assist us with how it has changed?
I think on the “intensifying existing workstream to
address POL's historic failures", there's particular
reference to speeding up remediation and compensation
payments.
Thank you, because that was going to, in fact, my
question, which is where does compensation and
remediation fit within those priorities.
Yes, I mean, I think this is a summary, actually, of
the -- there's a couple of sub-bullets for each one.
Thank you. Have you spoken to the current Minister
regarding compensation and redress?
I've spoken to the current Minister, yes. We talked
about whole a lot of topics, and yes, I did. I did.
180
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Q. What is your view as to whether Government is providing
the issue of redress and compensation with sufficient
attention and support?
A. I think they are. I've spoken to the Minister, I've
spoken to the Secretary of State. I've made my position
very clear in terms of how I think this needs to evolve
and they've been very supportive.
MR BLAKE: Thank you.
Sir, those are all of my questions. There are some
questions from Mr Jacobs. Do you, sir, have any
questions before?
Questioned by SIR WYN WILLIAMS
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Just before you ask your questions,
Mr Jacobs.
Obviously, Mr Railton, you've raised the prospect
that, over the course of the coming weeks, I think,
given the way you put your evidence, there would be
likely information about your strategic plan which would
be of considerable interest to the Inquiry.
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So we need to work out a mechanism for
the Inquiry to be kept up to date, effectively, yes?
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Obviously, I know you're the Chair and
therefore a very important figure but, if you can't
181
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So I'm really asking for your cooperation
in feeding the Inquiry information as soon as you can --
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I -- in respect of the strategic plan and
all that flows from it, all right?
A. Ican assure you of my cooperation and commitment to do
that.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Fine. Thank you.
Mr Jacobs?
Questioned by MR JACOBS
MR JACOBS: Thank you, sir. I ought to say we've had 20 of
‘our clients asking for me to ask the question you've
just asked, so I don't need to ask it.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Well, I've stolen your thunder,
Mr Jacobs, and I apologise.
MR JACOBS: I'm afraid my voice isn't so great, so if you
can't understand me or understand me then let me know.
A. I can certainly hear you.
Q. Good. Thank you. In relation to the plan, the
strategic review plan, we understand that once the plan
was drafted, Post Office didn't go back to the National
Federation of SubPostmasters or to subpostmasters to ask
them if they were content with the proposed plan,
whether they objected to proposals or had proposals that
they wanted to be included. Why didn't Post Office ask
183
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commit to things while you're sitting in the witness
box, that's fair enough. But what I'd like to be in
a position to get agreement about is that -- well, as
I see it, the next step is approval or otherwise by the
Government.
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: So, obviously, I would like to be
informed, maybe there will be a great public
announcement, so I won't need your assistance but, if
there isn't, I would like the Post Office to tell the
Inquiry what the position is once the Government say
whatever they're going to say --
A. Certainly.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: -- and I'll be asking the Government to
tell me as well, so it won't be just the Post Office.
It may be that that will provoke the need for
a Rule 9 Request, which I'm sure you know what that is
and a pretty quick answer to it, if the statement isn't,
obviously, self-explanatory. So, again, I'd like your
cooperation in seeking to ensure that this could happen,
because what I don't want to happen is for the Phase 7
hearing to finish more or less on time, as I'm pretty
sure it's going to, and then for events to be occurring
while I'm trying to make sense of what I'm going to say.
A. Yes.
182
for feedback or properly consult subpostmasters on this?
A. I think we did consult with subpostmasters and the
various Federations in groups to get their input to the
plan.
Q. Yes.
A. So we got their input. We talked to lots and lots of
people to get their input, and I think I can understand
people's concerns, but I doubt there's anything in the
plan that, when we announce it, people will not want us
to do or not be happy with.
Q. Don't you think you should have sent the plan at least
to the Federation and asked for feedback on the
proposals or any counterproposals, as a consultation,
part of the consultation exercise?
A. Perhaps, but perhaps that stage -- we can do that once
the Government agree to the fact that this is a plan
that's sensible and we can then consult with them at
that point before we implement it.
Q. Thank you. I want to ask you now about restorative
justice.
In your statement at paragraph 56, you say you
believe that you met postmasters recently on 18 June.
A. And subsequently.
Q. We've heard evidence from Ms McEwan today that such
meetings had been profound and impactful. Is that how
184
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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
you found your meetings?
I found them, yes, really, really helpful.
You say that a new deal and full engagement with the
postmasters is fundamental and that's how you would like
to see things going forward?
Yes.
Can you confirm whether the new deal, which I understand
is part of the strategic review, whether that
incorporates any wider restorative justice proposals for
subpostmasters?
Not -- it doesn't really deal with compensation, it
deals with the new and economic model and new ways of
working going forward.
Okay, I'll expand on that. Of course, you've only been
around in office since May this year.
Yes.
In December 2022, Howe+Co, who instruct me, set out some
proposals for wider restorative justice in written
submissions and Mr Stein, King's Counsel, raised them at
a hearing on 8 December 2022.
I just want to ask you whether, as Chair, you're
aware of whether there are any proposals for any ongoing
psychiatric and counselling support for subpostmasters
and their families?
I'm afraid I'm not aware. I'm not aware of that.
185
going forward, or that Post Office are prepared to
consider?
Well, the Post Office, I'm sure, will consider that,
yes.
Moving on. I want to ask you about the Standard
Subpostmasters Contract.
Yes.
Perhaps we could just have part of that on the screen.
So it's POL00000254, and then going to page 32 of that
document. That's section 12 of the Standard
Subpostmasters Contract. Page 32. So if we could then
scroll down to paragraph 20, do you see at paragraph 20,
"Post Office Duties"?
Yes.
"Post Office Limited shall ..."
Then if we scroll down to 20.3:
"... properly and accurately effect, record,
maintain and keep records of all transactions effected
using Horizon
Now, these are the new terms that have been put into
the contracts after the Common Issues judgment of Lord
Justice Fraser.
Mm.
My question for you is: does this mean that the
mechanism exists within Post Office now for monitoring
187
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What about bursaries to assist with retraining of
subpostmasters and for the education of their children
whose education was disrupted by the scandal?
Again, I'm afraid I'm not able to answer that question.
I will say that I believe that the remediation process
and compensation has been widened.
What about a tangible memorial scheme to mark the
miscarriage of justice and sympathetically record the
experiences of subpostmasters; has that been --
I'm sorry, I'm really not familiar with this at all.
Okay. Finally, are there any proposals for local
initiatives to restore the reputation of subpostmasters
within their local communities?
I think there's certainly an objective to restore the
Post Office brand. How far that stretches to local,
I don't know, at this point.
The proposals that I've just listed out were put to this
Inquiry in submissions in December 2022. Do you accept
that the plan that you speak about in your statement,
the new deal for postmasters, should include such
measures as a matter of principle, Mr Railton?
I think, as a matter of principle, yes, yes. But
I think I just need to think about it. In principle,
yes; in practice, how that would work?
Is that something that you are prepared to consider,
186
and identifying shortfalls on Horizon terminals?
Yes, as far as I'm aware. Yes.
So Post Office are able to identify, track down and
monitor shortfalls?
Yes, and we have a process that does that.
If we could then move further down to paragraphs 20.4 to
20.7. Again, Post Office will:
... properly and accurately produce all relevant
records and/or explain all transactions and/or any
alleged apparent shortfalls attributed to the
subpostmaster;
"cooperate in seeking to identify the possible or
likely causes of any apparent or alleged shortfalls
and/or whether or not there was indeed any shortfall at
all;
"seek to identify the causes of any apparent or
alleged shortfalls, in any event:
"disclose possible causes of apparent or alleged
shortfalls (and the cause thereof) to the subpostmaster
candidly, fully and frankly ..."
I hope I haven't read those too quickly.
No, I've read them.
So these subclauses say that the Post Office will seek
to identify possible or likely causes of shortfalls. Do
you accept, then, that Post Office has a facility to do
188
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The Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
this: it can identify and it can do this?
Yes, so we have a process -- and, forgive me, this is my
understanding based on information I've been given, but
we have a process now where people can put any shortfall
into dispute. It then goes into a process that's
administered by a team in Chesterfield that looks at
what's caused the shortfall. But the open -- the
proposition of it is that the postmaster is not at
fault. That's really important.
That's the start point and it's for the process to
identify where any shortfall may have been caused, and
it may not be Horizon. I think, as mentioned in these
clauses, it could be a stock shortfall, you know, that
the wrong stock has been sent, a cash shortfall. It
could be many reasons. One thing we do want to do is we
want to get more postmasters involved in reviewing these
processes to make sure that they're comfortable with
them.
So the process really is that the postmaster has to
identify the shortfall first; it's not a case of Post
Office actively looking for problems in the Horizon
system?
No, I think -- the shortfall will appear on the system,
I think, but predominantly through a postmaster logging
a dispute.
189
afternoon Mr Blake took you to the YouGov survey --
Yes.
-- that has been prepared at the request of this.
Inquiry. We know from Ms Burton's evidence last week
that there was a Board meeting about this on
24 September; is that right?
Yes.
You were at that meeting, were you?
Yes.
You will no doubt know, then, that the Executive summary
says that 92 per cent of the 1,000 postmasters who
responded -- approximately 1,000 -- experienced some
form of issue with the Horizon system in the last
12 months, and 98 per cent of those who experienced
discrepancies reported shortfalls and, worryingly, the
most common resolution was for them to use branch money
or resolve it themselves.
So isn't it right that the subpostmasters are still
paying for Horizon-generated shortfalls from their own
funds; do you accept that?
Well, that's what the report says, so therefore I have
to. I think we need to go away and investigate this
again and look at it. As I say, the report was
disappointing, surprising and, as I say, we need to go
away and work out exactly what is happening again. But
191
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Q. You were asked by Mr Blake about the position between
Post Office and Fujitsu, and there's a letter -- we may
not need to turn it up because you've answered on the
subject -- that Mr Patterson wrote to the Chief
Executive on 17 May 2024, to Mr Read, and he says in it:
"To be clear, FSL will not support the Post Office
to act against subpostmasters. We will not provide
support for any enforcement actions taken by Post Office
against postmasters, whether civil, criminal, for
alleged shortfalls, fraud or false accounting.”
So the position is that Post Office are
contractually bound to identify and resolve the
shortfalls.
A. Mm.
Q. How can Post Office fulfil these obligations without
support from Fujitsu?
A. I don't know. I mean, that's quite a technical
question. I think one of the issues that the Post
Office has right now is they don't recover any
shortfalls, and haven't for quite a period of time. But
I think we need to think about how we can get the
business back on a proper footing. So I'm afraid
I don't know the answer to that question but I'll
certainly take it away and think about it.
Q. Thank you. Finally, from me, at about 2.10 this
190
that's certainly not the intention of the Post Office
for that to happen.
Q. It follows, doesn't it, that the need to identify and
resolve Horizon shortfalls, not least because of your
contractual obligations but also because of what
subpostmasters are experiencing on the ground, is
a matter of huge concern today, isn't it, Mr Railton?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you able to say what steps you're able to take, as
Interim Chair, to try and drive this issue forward and
resolve it?
A. Well, we're going to take the survey, and we've already
got a lot of activities under way. I think the best way
to resolve this -- and I'll talk to the Acting Chief
Executive about this -- is to get a number of
postmasters to work with us to review the processes end
to end because we can say repeatedly that we have
confidence in the processes but, until they do, then
I don't think we're going to resolve this.
MR JACOBS: Well, thank you. Your answers have been
helpful. I'm just going to ask if I need to ask you
anything more.
No, I haven't any further questions.
THE WITNESS: Thank you for the questions. I appreciate it.
MR JACOBS: = Thank you.
192
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MR BLAKE: Thank you, sir. I think those are all the
questions.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Thank you, Mr Railton, for your witness
statement and for your evidence this afternoon. I'm
very grateful to you and grateful too that I may hear
from you further, so to speak.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: = Mr Chapman isn't here, is he, from the
Department?
MR BLAKE: No.
‘SIR WYN WILLIAMS: I take it, so that I'm not going off on
a false trail, it's the Department for Business and
Trade that --
A. Yes.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: Yes, fine. So is anyone here from the
Department? Anyway, if they are following remotely,
they will know that I would expect the same cooperation
from them as I've been assured I will get from
Mr Railton. So thank you all very much.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
SIR WYN WILLIAMS: 10.00 tomorrow morning.
(4.13 pm)
(The hearing adjourned until 10.00 am the following day)
193
INDEX
KAREN ANITA MCEWAN (sworn)...
Questioned by MR BLAKE ....
Questioned by MR STEIN .....
Questioned by SIR WYN WILLIAMS ..
NIGEL RAILTON (sworn) ...
Questioned by MR BLAKE ....
Questioned by SIR WYN WILLIAMS ..
Questioned by MR JACOBS .....
194
8 October 2024
93
106
108
108
181
183
(49) Pages 193 - 194
MR BLAKE: [24] 1/5
1/9 10/22 31/21 51/18
51/23 55/24 56/6
89/11 93/18 105/25
107/20 107/22 107/25I
108/5 108/10 121/24
164/18 164/22 165/1
177/8 181/8 193/1
193/10
MR JACOBS: [4]
183/11 183/16 192/20}
192/25
MR STEIN: [2] 93/22
105/22
SIR WYN WILLIAMS:
[78] 1/3 10/9 31/9
31/14 31/16 31/19
51/17 56/3 56/7 86/24
87/5 87/10 87/13
87/21 87/23 88/2 88/7
88/11 88/16 88/20
89/1 89/4 89/8 89/10
93/14 93/17 106/2
106/14 106/17 106/21
106/23 107/3 107/7
107/40 107/12 107/14]
107/49 107/21 107/23}
108/1 108/7 121/9
121/13 121/16 121/20
121/23 164/21 174/4
174/7 174/16 174/19
174/24 175/2 175/5
175/10 175/15 175/21
176/1 176/7 176/9
176/13 176/18 176/23}
4177/7 181/13 181/21
181/24 182/7 182/14
183/1 183/4 183/8
183/14 193/3 193/8
193/11 193/15 193/21
THE WITNESS: [6]
56/4 105/24 107/18
192/24 193/7 193/20
"24 [1] 101/18
"back [1] 52/15
"be [2] 40/17 52/14
‘bureaucratic’ [1]
38/15
‘cancer’ [1] 28/4
"Create [2] 37/19
97/13
‘enterprise [1] 124/9
‘exit’ [1] 94/21
“finger [1] 24/7
‘finger-pointing’ [1]
24/7
‘friendly’ [1] 38/13
‘girl’ [4] 26/12
‘improve [1] 40/16
‘improvements [1]
44/20
‘ladies' [1] 26/13
"many [4] 76/21
79/25 80/4 80/6
"move [1] 52/14
‘no [2] 78/25 80/5
‘out [1] 130/12
‘own [1] 52/11
‘own' [1] 46/25
‘pains [1] 26/7
‘political’ [1] 38/15
‘politically [1] 26/24
‘pressured’ [1] 151/1
*RED' [3] 75/10 75/20
76/23
‘rightly [1] 166/15
‘she [1] 26/10
‘supportive’ [1]
38/14
‘us [1] 83/20
‘warning [1] 131/9
w! [1] 167/10
=
[Board [1] 126/1
4
1 April [4] 163/19
4 March [1] 123/13
4 May [2] 36/21
134/8
1,000 [2] 191/11
191/12
1.01 [1] 108/2
1.2 billion [3] 149/1
156/12 156/13
10.00 [3] 1/2 193/21
193/23
100 [1] 142/10
100 per cent [1]
116/17
109 [1] 119/24
11 [4] 71/2 133/5
158/22 158/23
11.17 [1] 51/20
11.35 [1] 51/18
11.36 [1] 51/22
110 [2] 87/12 178/22
12 [4] 26/14 114/18
115/20 187/10
12 months [3]
111/15 131/5 191/14
13 [2] 26/14 114/24
13 March [3] 72/17
83/3 157/4
15 [5] 3/4 22/22
22/22 51/18 63/3
150 [1] 112/23
153 [3] 65/15 65/23
66/4
157 [2] 65/15 66/4
16 [2] 3/4 5/15
16 May [2] 134/1
134/11
164 [1] 29/6
17 January [1] 70/17
17 May [1] 190/5
17 per cent [1] 116/1
17 September [1]
1114
18 [1] 159/13
18 June [1] 184/22
418 per [1] 116/2
180 million [1] 149/2
49 [2] 115/15 118/12
1981 [1] 2/11
1998 [4] 109/9
2
2 years [1] 159/13
2-year [1] 171/20
2.00 [2] 107/25 108/4
2.10 [2] 22/19 190/25
2.7 [4] 26/5
20 [3] 183/11 187/12
187/12
20 per cent [1]
154/16
20 years [4] 47/3
47/21 95/5 96/12
20.3 [1] 187/16
20.4 [1] 188/6
20.7 [1] 188/7
2002 [1] 5/12
2016 [2] 2/11 2/19
2017 [2] 109/12
120/9
2019 [1] 92/21
2020 [1] 116/1
2021 [2] 155/5
156/22
2022 [4] 69/10
185/17 185/20 186/18}
2023 [8] 3/1 23/2
23/13 26/6 67/17
94/21 109/12 123/13
2024 [16] 1/1 11/4
37/18 55/7 70/17
71/25 75/24 97/19
119/22 149/3 150/14
157/4 158/11 167/5
169/14 190/5
2025 [3] 157/12
158/13 163/20
2026 [1] 161/4
2028 [4] 149/2
156/13 156/13 160/18}
2030 [2] 163/20
164/10
21 [4] 3/19
21 per cent [1] 116/3
212 [2] 94/4 94/8
22 [1] 4/7
23 [4] 119/1
23 April [1] 37/18
24 [2] 52/3 52/9
24 March [1] 109/23
24 May [5] 109/24
109/25 111/15 111/15)
134/8
24 September [1]
191/6
25 [4] 13/22
25 January [1] 26/6
25 July [1] 171/18
27 [2] 26/19 87/9
27 February [1] 97/1
27 June [1] 148/14
28 [3] 18/3 26/19
115/24
29 [2] 27/1 27/2
29 May [1] 42/22
3
3 years [1] 161/3
3.16 [1] 164/23
3.35 [2] 164/22
164/25
30 [4] 2/4 27/1 27/25
28/20
30 August [1] 108/15
30 May [1] 167/5
300,000 [1] 95/8
31 March [1] 163/20
32 [2] 187/9 187/11
33 [2] 13/22 108/18
35 [1] 145/7
36 [4] 145/9
365 [1] 135/6
4
4 June [2] 119/22
158/15
4.13 [1] 193/22
40 [1] 17/25
43 [1] 40/14
44,000 [1] 111/24
5
5 years [1] 163/18
5-year [2] 159/8
171/15
509 [1] 135/7
51 per cent [1] 18/6
52 [1] 65/23
56 [1] 184/21
57 [1] 118/19
57 per [1] 118/13
57 per cent [1]
115/22
6
61 per cent [1]
115/22
68 per cent [1]
115/21
7
7,000 [1] 103/6
70 [1] 51/25
70 per [1] 115/20
74 [2] 52/10 52/10
74 [4] 116
74 per cent [2] 18/9
116/6
77 [A] 31/23
79 [1] 34/2
Bo
8 December [1]
185/20
8 March [1] 83/4
80 per cent [1]
154/14
9
92 per cent [1]
191/11
96 [4] 145/11
98 per cent [1]
191/14
99 [1] 42/13
A
At [4] 1/12
120/10 129/12 144/3
able [30] 4/14 41/20
49/17 50/7 50/10
50/11 60/18 64/13
65/18 65/25 74/4
78/11 86/7 91/2 91/16
99/13 119/13 121/25
123/9 134/5 150/22
154/3 159/8 162/16
169/15 173/12 186/4
188/3 192/9 192/9
about [144] 3/22 4/7
5/15 7/9 9/10 9/11
9/17 9/24 12/19 13/20
15/15 15/17 18/1
18/24 19/10 20/6 20/9I
20/18 24/5 29/11
29/22 30/11 30/21
35/19 41/25 42/22
43/4 43/6 43/6 43/7
43/12 43/20 43/25
46/6 46/9 46/11 46/15
48/4 49/1 49/17 51/11
54/4 56/17 57/5 57/6
57/23 58/8 58/14
58/24 60/12 60/25
61/17 61/20 61/20
63/1 65/4 65/10 66/5
67/6 68/11 83/11
84/13 85/13 86/25
87/6 88/24 91/12
91/14 92/7 94/3 95/17
95/25 96/8 96/9 99/4
99/7 99/24 100/17
100/19 100/22 101/5
114/11 112/23 114/10
115/3 116/11 117/6
(60) MR BLAKE: - about
A
about... [57] 117/11
117/14 118/2 118/6
121/16 124/3 124/25
125/12 126/12 126/13
132/23 133/9 139/5
141/22 144/14 144/25)
145/15 146/3 146/18
146/19 147/1 148/21
149/7 153/8 154/13
155/20 156/12 158/24
159/16 159/24 160/1
165/1 170/12 170/22
173/24 176/2 176/10
177/24 178/7 178/9
178/22 179/5 180/25
181/18 182/3 184/19
186/1 186/7 186/19
186/23 187/5 190/1
190/21 190/24 190/25)
191/5 192/15
above [3] 147/9
167/17 168/2
abreast [1] 87/16
absence [2] 75/4
94/11
absolute [1] 111/25
absolutely [10] 16/15)
55/17 77/20 84/1
100/23 106/9 130/19
155/2 159/23 175/9
absorb [1] 135/15
abstained [1] 80/5
abstaining [2] 33/20
80/11
AC [1] 169/20
ACAS [1] 90/14
Accenture [6] 120/15
153/6 153/8 153/13
153/15 153/18
accept [5] 74/12
128/2 186/18 188/25
191/20
accepted [1] 179/22
accepting [1] 119/5
access [3] 44/23
63/15 167/4
accessing [1] 178/24
accordance [1]
26/21
according [1] 71/13
account [5] 15/25
29/8 104/9 167/21
168/9
accountability [18]
11/18 33/1 39/16 52/6
52/13 52/22 59/19
65/5 67/23 68/4 125/3
125/6 125/15 136/5
136/11 143/21 144/2
144/6
accountable [5] 8/11
59/20 67/12 86/21
130/9
accountant [1] 109/2
accounting [2]
167/20 190/10
accounts [1] 167/8
accuracy [1] 134/25
accurate [2] 70/6
91/21
accurately [3] 37/11
187/17 188/8
accusation [1] 89/18
accused [1] 53/3
achievable [1] 156/4
achieve [5] 128/11
128/11 128/12 129/24)
143/1
achieved [2] 111/20
122/15
achieving [4] 53/23
141/23 145/12 145/14)
acknowledged [1]
106/19
acknowledgement
[1] 53/10
acknowledges [1]
167/5
across [5] 4/12 10/5
92/17 125/5 125/6
act [2] 88/18 190/7
acting [6] 27/9 71/21
117/5 133/3 172/4
192/14
action [18] 23/11
23/18 35/8 58/5 58/18
59/3 59/4 59/8 62/18
74/6 74/20 79/3 79/5
90/11 148/3 160/21
161/21 170/16
action’ [2] 79/1 80/5
actions [8] 3/6 14/9
15/25 59/1 83/13
134/21 139/23 190/8
activated [1] 163/24
Active [1] 152/19
actively [4] 92/25
112/21 154/12 189/21
activities [5] 74/7
134/18 152/9 164/17
192/13
activity [3] 74/3
152/3 153/15
actual [3] 87/5 87/7
87/9
actually [33] 12/8
12/9 27/18 46/17
47/19 53/9 54/11 56/7)
70/25 72/4 76/11 80/8
81/9 89/23 98/16
105/8 111/19 112/11
119/3 119/23 120/19
122/10 130/9 136/10
137/18 141/20 145/8
162/4 162/7 168/25
176/3 179/12 180/20
acutely [6] 12/21
71/8 77/5 81/3 98/6
101/11
add [4] 156/14
additional [4] 14/24
15/4 17/23 74/9
address [14] 13/23
16/8 17/17 26/1 27/14
63/19 84/23 102/25
133/2 140/22 142/17
171/18 180/2 180/14
addressed [7] 7/3
20/7 21/25 65/1
122/20 141/18 147/7
addresses [5] 17/25
117/20 167/25 170/9
179/21
addressing [2] 14/10
22/1
adequate [1] 118/9
adhered [1] 104/14
adjourned [1] 193/23
Adjournment [1]
108/3
administered [1]
189/6
admitting [1] 65/11
Adopted [1] 134/15
advantage [1] 142/12)
advertisement [1]
50/19
advice [3] 128/2
132/9 147/18
advised [6] 159/3
159/10 160/5 160/23
161/4 161/19
advising [1] 161/14
advocate [1] 78/25
advocated [2] 177/11
177/14
affairs [6] 11/17
12/20 13/16 15/18
42/10 142/3
affected [1] 105/1
affects [1] 122/14
afraid [13] 6/2 43/11
56/2 138/1 138/11
138/18 148/12 150/24
173/3 183/16 185/25
186/4 190/22
after [12] 5/15 27/18
30/8 37/24 67/9 68/24
69/9 147/18 152/2
162/10 167/22 187/21
afternoon [7] 108/5
108/5 164/20 173/24
179/14 191/1 193/4
afterwards [2] 140/2
140/11
again [22] 12/16
41/19 64/6 91/6 96/21
97/5 106/13 117/23
120/21 125/5 125/20
141/16 144/17 147/6
148/9 161/10 175/4
182/19 186/4 188/7
191/23 191/25
against [13] 31/12
32/16 55/13 57/10
60/16 149/1 149/2
152/1 157/18 174/12
175/12 190/7 190/9
age [1] 26/11
agencies [1] 170/8
agenda [1] 10/5
aggressive [2] 23/25
127/14
ago [4] 47/4 56/5
95/5 171/10
agree [8] 18/11 18/13
21/10 107/9 119/12
136/8 136/10 184/16
agreed [9] 68/10 74/2!
130/20 139/22 140/2
141/17 158/20 171/10}
174/23
agreement [2]
162/17 182/3
Ah [4] 65/21
ahead [2] 81/9
129/22
Airport [1] 130/6
Al [5] 94/12 94/20
94/21 94/25 95/16
Al's [2] 94/11 94/18
albeit [1] 76/25
align [1] 102/15
aligned [1] 129/21
alignment [1] 102/11
all [90] 2/17 5/16
16/16 16/22 19/4 34/9)
43/11 43/17 45/7
47/10 51/17 52/15
54/5 55/9 55/16 56/9
57/21 58/23 59/4
59/11 59/14 61/19
63/23 64/6 68/24
70/10 70/23 72/8
79/19 81/3 82/3 85/11
86/25 87/21 88/2
89/10 92/23 93/18
97/24 97/25 98/2
98/21 102/3 105/9
105/25 107/1 118/1
118/23 118/24 119/7
119/15 128/13 128/14}
135/23 136/3 136/6
139/22 139/24 140/5
142/2 144/1 147/24
150/23 153/17 154/14)
154/14 155/12 155/14
158/4 160/24 162/7
162/8 162/8 162/18
166/5 167/16 169/2
174/5 180/5 180/8
181/9 183/5 183/5
186/10 187/18 188/8
188/9 188/15 193/1
193/19
all’ [1] 97/14
all-encompassing [1]
59/4
allegation [18] 22/4
22/19 22/19 26/4 26/4I
26/15 45/3 45/6 47/1
57/9 57/10 66/1 66/2
150/9 150/25 151/7
152/21 175/23
allegations [12]
26/16 26/18 60/6
60/16 91/22 91/24
93/5 93/12 149/19
150/8 151/12 152/1
alleged [6] 94/19
188/10 188/13 188/17)
188/18 190/10
allow [2] 160/20
168/11
allowed [3] 4/3 89/13
146/20
allows [3] 117/17
140/23 144/18
almost [2] 13/8 92/3
alone [1] 81/5
along [4] 22/15 73/1
110/22 170/4
alongside [1] 123/20
already [15] 12/8
15/6 16/7 57/24 61/18)
77/11 80/13 113/3
133/13 139/5 147/1
147/25 148/7 172/24
192/12
also [53] 4/7 7/21 9/8
11/14 16/11 16/12
19/17 21/15 28/1
29/13 30/7 33/15
34/13 35/18 35/19
35/21 37/18 39/19
39/21 42/18 45/12
45/19 48/2 50/3 50/15)
61/20 65/2 65/6 68/5
71/10 73/20 85/22
88/22 94/17 94/19
96/12 101/19 103/7
112/16 117/21 124/10)
125/1 126/25 147/20
151/12 154/5 165/3
166/11 167/5 167/20
172/19 178/6 192/5
alternative [3] 159/6
159/9 163/22
Alternatively [1] 27/6
although [2] 92/10
104/7
always [3] 36/4
155/16 175/8
am [23] 1/2 7/1 19/18
37/15 38/22 51/20
51/22 52/12 59/3
59/20 64/19 93/4
93/16 100/17 115/17
(61) about... -am
A
am... [8] 126/3 135/9
138/23 153/5 166/3
169/3 174/4 193/23
Amanda [5] 20/17
21/6 22/15 24/18
59/13
amazing [2] 130/22
132/3
ambiguity [1] 46/6
ambition [1] 132/16
amongst [3] 73/14
104/24 112/9
amount [4] 14/19
111/1 125/10 166/22
analysing [1] 64/5
analysis [4] 22/22
22/23 26/15 170/4
Angela [1] 100/10
ANITA [3] 1/7 1/10
194/2
announce [1] 184/9
announcement [1]
182/9
anonymity [1] 46/3
anonymous [2] 44/7
147/1
another [9] 46/24
51/15 59/9 71/5 78/10
148/25 159/18 165/2
173/15
answer [15] 24/24
86/7 89/2 89/16 89/17
130/19 133/19 141/16
149/15 173/3 174/21
175/8 182/18 186/4
190/23
answered [1] 190/3
answering [1] 86/6
answers [2] 146/7
192/20
anticipate [1] 121/21
anticipated [2] 4/11
113/9
antidote [1] 128/23
anxiety [1] 61/7
any [82] 3/5 4/18
4/22 5/16 6/5 14/24
15/8 15/13 18/22
24/17 25/19 25/23
27/7 28/13 30/11 40/6
41/7 45/8 45/24 46/6
47/13 49/1 49/1 53/5
56/22 57/12 59/1 59/8
59/19 60/16 65/8
77/24 78/18 78/23
79/7 79/9 80/11 82/1
82/7 86/5 92/24 93/4
93/5 93/6 93/6 93/13
111/10 121/24 126/10
127/10 128/11 142/16}
143/21 145/20 151/18)
151/18 153/4 153/16
157/17 160/9 170/2
170/4 173/4 175/16
184/13 185/9 185/22
185/22 186/11 188/9
188/17 189/4 189/11
190/8 190/19 192/23
anybody [8] 10/7
57/20 62/25 86/16
anyone [4] 54/25
anything [10] 14/10
29/1 56/13 81/5
140/21 184/8 192/22
anyway [3] 35/5 46/5
193/16
anywhere [1] 100/3
apart [1] 132/25
Apologies [4] 43/10
55/19 84/25 89/2
apologise [1] 183/15
apparent [6] 4/19
125/2 188/10 188/13
188/16 188/18
Appeal [1] 88/9
appeals [1] 55/12
appear [2] 32/21
189/23
appears [4] 76/5
82/25 102/19 159/15
application [1] 8/10
applications [3]
75/16 112/22 112/24
applied [2] 25/9
124/24
apply [4] 38/24 38/25
114/23 117/25
appointed [6] 27/19
29/3 46/23 86/20
109/23 110/6
appointment [16]
19/14 19/16 19/20
20/10 20/13 47/22
49/8 76/24 110/1
111/5 111/18 134/2
134/2 134/7 158/19
179/21
appreciate [7] 23/14
43/23 52/20 54/1 95/8
132/15 192/24
appreciated [2] 3/23
TIS
approach [21] 21/16
62/25 73/4 74/3 76/21
76/23 78/14 79/2 79/3)
79/10 79/11 79/14
81/11 81/13 134/15
141/10 159/6 159/9
163/22 170/18 172/14)
approached [6]
47/12 47/23 110/2
176/24 176/24 181/10)
188/13 188/14 188/16)
90/2 93/9 98/21 175/4)
153/13 174/25 193/15)
110/22 128/11 131/17,
63/22 68/15 71/16
87/3 100/20 130/18
162/17 164/19
appropriately [2]
24/14 127/6
appropriateness [2]
95/13 96/10
approval [6] 25/15
25/23 119/20 122/13
158/6 182/4
approve [1] 121/14
approved [7] 121/10
126/17 137/10 140/10
142/19 163/20 164/1
approximate [2] 87/1
87/12
approximately [3]
87/11 87/12 191/12
April [5] 37/18
150/14 163/19 169/14
179/16
April 2024 [1] 150/14
ARC [2] 135/2 138/18}
architecture [1]
115/2
are [229]
area [13] 27/12 27/13
27/22 28/21 33/17
40/22 43/23 44/24
45/2 68/8 68/10 86/21
141/4
areas [6] 9/14 9/25
28/20 28/23 32/20
38/1
aren't [2] 25/23
136/18
Argentex [1] 109/17
arguably [2] 54/11
101/9
arise [2] 22/5 118/10
arisen [2] 11/9
141/16
arising [6] 76/18
81/23 82/2 83/20
117/1 138/5
around [18] 5/12 6/8
8/23 25/2 39/6 56/17
61/25 67/18 81/2 83/6
113/17 118/11 131/9
141/3 145/5 152/17
179/9 185/15
arranged [1] 171/17
arrive [1] 138/13
arses' [1] 26/8
as [242]
ascertain [1] 167/20
ashamed [1] 48/4
aside [2] 74/24
160/24
ask [33] 1/13 1/16
9/17 10/9 24/21 41/20
60/11 70/18 73/1 92/6
110/12 110/13 165/25)
appropriate [9] 48/13}
96/21 97/17 100/4
106/4 108/17 146/25
155/3 158/1 158/2
168/23 170/22 174/9
176/21 181/13 183/12
183/13 183/22 183/25}
184/19 185/21 187/5
192/21 192/21
asked [31] 6/22 7/10
13/7 15/16 22/11 29/7
29/10 29/16 33/15
43/13 62/12 66/5 67/8
85/13 96/8 96/17 98/4,
115/3 130/23 139/6
139/9 149/24 159/3
161/22 166/1 175/6
176/24 177/4 183/13
184/12 190/1
asking [12] 30/3
30/15 57/6 67/6 86/12
94/3 95/25 106/3
139/12 182/14 183/1
183/12
asks [1] 53/7
aspect [1] 121/24
aspects [2] 64/23
165/4
assess [2] 28/11
149/13
assessing [1] 134/20
assessment [2]
112/13 155/16
assist [33] 2/7 3/7
29/8 36/22 37/21
40/23 50/25 52/18
61/4 65/17 65/25
70/19 77/3 80/8 83/16
83/22 91/2 91/16
104/11 112/19 115/7
119/2 127/3 134/5
138/6 139/19 142/22
150/22 160/15 161/24,
164/2 180/12 186/1
assistance [4] 74/9
107/24 167/19 182/9
assisted [1] 145/10
assisting [4] 137/6
145/11 173/1 173/2
associated [5] 75/22
79/17 91/8 98/22
115/3
assume [1] 176/14
assuming [1] 78/14
assurance [10] 68/13}
92/1 133/24 134/12
134/16 135/7 135/10
135/22 151/2 170/21
assure [4] 120/22
127/7 138/23 183/6
assured [3] 115/4
147/22 193/18
at [311]
at page 7 [1] 3/16
attachment [1]
129/14
attempt [1] 63/14
attempts [1] 23/6
attend [3] 50/13
59/18 59/19
attended [4] 41/16
43/17 45/10 45/13
attendee [1] 134/3
attending [1] 41/23
attention [10] 7/22
12/14 86/22 92/9
122/25 131/20 145/21
165/20 171/16 181/3
attesting [1] 166/20
attitude [1] 17/6
attract [1] 20/20
attribute [1] 4/18
attributed [1] 188/10
Audit [3] 135/23
136/14 136/20
August [2] 108/15
171/13
author [2] 11/1 92/10
authorisation [1]
25/11
authority [2] 74/4
130/10
automate [2] 178/10
179/6
automation [2]
178/13 178/17
autonomy [1] 25/5
autumn [1] 12/9
available [2] 14/6
116/17
averse [2] 126/24
127/4
avoidance [1] 168/15
awarding [1] 153/9
aware [56] 12/21
17/16 18/14 24/11
29/1 29/4 29/12 30/2
37/2 41/5 45/3 45/4
45/8 50/2 55/15 60/6
60/14 64/19 66/8 67/4
67/8 69/11 70/25 71/8
77/5 78/7 81/3 86/14
86/16 91/20 92/10
92/14 92/16 92/17
92/19 92/21 93/4 93/9I
93/13 93/14 96/1 98/7I
100/16 101/11 111/16)
115/15 143/22 150/10}
153/3 153/16 166/3
167/1 185/22 185/25
185/25 188/2
awareness [4] 13/25
14/7 16/18 75/18
away [12] 77/7 82/9
115/4 161/14 164/13
172/24 173/17 173/20)
176/11 190/24 191/22)
191/25
(62) am... - back
B
backfilling [1] 11/12
background [14] 2/1
4/3 36/23 50/9 50/9
103/3 103/8 103/18
103/20 109/1 134/5
155/1 179/20 179/22
backing [1] 53/19
Badenoch [1] 110/7
balance [6] 23/24
48/10 50/2 50/11
111/25 132/23
balances [3] 36/7
169/24 170/2
balancing [2] 76/10
77/14
ball [1] 88/3
bandwagon [1]
129/15
bandwidth [1] 35/20
bank's [1] 156/1
banks [2] 156/1
163/8
banner [1] 102/2
bar [1] 90/12
barrier [1] 124/11
barriers [1] 38/15
barrister [1] 21/24
Bartlett [3] 148/14
149/19 166/14
Bartlett's [2] 68/12
166/9
based [10] 34/7 37/3
63/11 118/19 130/23
135/5 155/16 167/10
167/15 189/3
basic [2] 139/2 140/6
basically [5] 138/12
148/3 163/4 177/16
178/4
basis [7] 3/25 14/4
78/24 79/21 80/6
113/17 176/14
be [254]
bear [1] 93/2
bearing [2] 61/16
91/22
became [6] 2/25 4/9
30/1 31/23 79/13
119/5
because [65] 5/5
13/2 13/5 19/24 20/21
21/19 22/1 26/1 29/24
33/20 44/3 47/5 53/3
58/12 60/19 61/9 65/8
65/9 67/6 68/21 68/24
69/13 70/9 73/16
80/23 81/2 81/3 82/13
85/18 89/17 90/18
90/21 96/16 98/13
98/21 101/1 104/8
106/3 110/13 113/10
4117/1 122/12 122/13
124/17 127/25 128/15)
139/14 141/9 144/5
146/13 147/20 149/13)
156/22 162/5 166/5
172I7 173/9 174/24
178/20 180/17 182/21
190/3 192/4 192/5
192/17
become [7] 2/19 2/22
67/4 111/8 119/5
154/2 176/20
becomes [1] 176/19
becoming [4] 81/6
109/11 114/13 122/10)
been [156] 3/21 6/20
6/24 7/11 8/6 8/20
9/16 12/19 14/22 16/7,
18/14 20/1 20/2 22/1
22/2 23/4 23/19 29/2
29/24 30/17 31/14
31/25 35/4 36/3 36/11
36/19 37/7 37/19
41/22 42/25 43/2 43/8
43/9 43/19 45/23 47/7
48/2 48/3 48/4 48/6
49/11 53/3 55/9 56/23
58/5 58/10 58/18 60/6
60/14 61/8 61/8 69/20
70/14 71/19 72/4 72/9)
72/13 73/24 74/2
74/15 74/25 75/14
75/15 75/16 78/9
78/11 78/23 81/2
82/12 82/25 83/5 84/3
85/7 87/1 87/16 88/17
89/24 90/25 91/3 91/5)
91/24 91/25 93/5 93/7)
94/17 94/19 94/25
95/17 95/18 96/16
97/11 98/4 101/22
102/23 103/16 105/1
105/5 105/5 105/8
105/9 111/13 116/6
116/11 117/11 119/7
121/18 122/18 122/20)
123/16 126/23 128/15)
128/16 130/3 133/13
133/20 135/1 136/9
141/23 143/21 144/25)
147/25 148/7 148/7
150/7 150/13 150/20
151/17 151/22 155/23)
159/21 159/21 160/6
165/19 167/1 167/15
167/23 169/15 171/14)
172/1 173/25 174/12
175/12 175/19 178/20}
181/7 184/25 185/14
186/6 186/9 187/20
189/3 189/11 189/14
191/3 192/20 193/18
before [47] 2/23 3/22
5/9 5/17 14/10 14/20
18/17 29/2 31/9 31/22
33/3 35/3 47/12 54/25
56/3 56/4 69/7 73/12
92/7 95/2 95/14 96/5
96/12 96/20 98/4
98/12 100/2 101/22
109/11 119/4 120/18
122/23 123/2 123/6
123/14 140/1 148/20
156/13 157/3 157/15
162/11 165/1 165/20
170/22 181/11 181/13
184/18
beforehand [1] 45/20
beg [1] 128/10
began [1] 119/25
begging [1] 128/9
begin [1] 3/25
beginning [7] 62/2
62/7 63/2 66/21 66/22
83/8 94/9
behalf [1] 31/2
behaving [1] 145/18
behaviour [8] 6/8
36/5 39/2 39/4 94/18
95/17 99/5 152/15
behaviours [26] 8/12
16/21 16/21 36/16
52/1 52/3 52/7 52/11
52/14 53/23 54/5 54/8
54/10 54/24 54/24
59/7 101/5 101/17
101/17 102/5 102/9
102/15 144/19 146/17
152/8 152/9
behind [3] 1/12 78/21
158/4
being [70] 6/22 13/3
15/1 15/15 17/22
19/20 19/24 23/6
28/19 33/15 34/15
44/21 44/23 45/9
46/10 63/8 65/5 67/2
69/9 70/1 70/4 72/3
74/19 75/13 76/7
77/16 78/2 81/24
83/22 85/5 90/6 90/24
92/20 94/12 95/15
97/3 109/17 112/19
122/9 123/2 124/24
125/12 126/24 129/13
136/15 136/17 136/18
136/19 136/25 138/7
138/8 139/6 139/9
141/18 149/11 149/25)
153/13 154/1 154/5
154/6 154/7 158/8
159/3 161/6 164/7
168/13 169/18 173/12
175/6 176/25
BEIS0000793 [1]
179/15
Belfast [2] 105/4
105/5
belief [14] 1/21 15/22
30/6 30/10 30/16
33/21 39/2 60/10
60/11 71/14 90/2 93/5)
108/22 145/7
believe [20] 14/13
17/2 17/12 28/18
30/22 57/18 57/19
63/11 64/24 65/1
76/14 83/9 87/18
87/20 91/5 126/8
128/8 135/13 184/22
186/5
believes [1] 64/11
believing [1] 63/25
below [2] 26/25
150/1
Ben [10] 58/24 59/8
60/11 60/23 61/5
61/22 62/3 89/18
89/23 158/20
benchmark [1]
102/17
benefit [3] 104/11
155/7 172/17
benefits [2] 40/19
104/20
best [25] 1/20 15/3
20/2 21/8 37/7 38/23
52/25 53/17 53/17
57/19 64/8 64/10
64/24 78/15 86/7
86/10 87/25 90/2
90/20 98/9 100/8
101/13 108/21 162/2
192/13
better [18] 19/3 36/9
39/23 40/15 40/18
43/21 53/11 62/24
68/6 68/10 84/9 90/25)
129/17 135/25 144/13}
156/25 162/22 178/15)
between [34] 17/6
39/16 48/10 66/20
67/4 67/14 68/14
68/16 94/20 94/22
95/19 96/19 101/12
101/23 123/17 124/10}
125/2 126/21 132/23
133/15 133/16 133/22,
134/22 140/17 1441/5
141/18 152/17 162/24}
165/10 165/16 171/22
172/11 174/8 190/1
beyond [7] 26/23
157/12 158/12 159/16}
159/25 167/6 173/16
big [2] 34/22 119/9
bigger [3] 54/25 55/1
153/14
biggest [3] 8/2 70/10
100/3
billion [3] 149/4
156/12 156/13
binding [1] 163/21
bit [3] 106/12 127/1
148/1
black [3] 55/21 55/22
109/7
Blake [9] 1/4 1/8
97/22 107/21 108/9
190/1 191/1 194/4
194/12
Blake's [4] 107/15
blame [1] 24/4
blank [1] 55/19
blend [1] 163/5
blind [1] 78/12
board [88] 10/25
18/1 27/24 36/24 37/3)
37/6 37/10 45/10
45/18 46/20 48/12
57/2 63/6 63/20 63/22I
80/22 81/7 81/7 81/24
96/25 97/3 97/15
97/18 98/12 112/6
112/7 112/9 112/10
112/11 112/13 112/14)
112/16 113/5 113/8
113/15 114/7 116/18
116/19 119/17 119/22)
121/10 124/5 124/10
125/11 125/12 125/18)
125/22 126/1 126/24
127/4 127/5 127/9
127/16 129/17 130/8
132/13 132/21 132/24}
133/1 133/3 133/9
133/17 133/21 133/22)
136/17 136/21 138/14I
138/18 138/23 139/22)
141/4 141/5 141/7
141/11 141/12 142/1
142/10 144/5 158/13
158/15 158/19 159/3
159/15 163/16 176/3
176/11 176/14 191/5
Board/ARC [1]
138/18
Boards [1] 48/24
bone [1] 170/4
bonuses [1] 152/10
both [17] 5/11 40/13
44/16 45/19 48/21
50/8 66/24 66/25
68/19 68/20 72/9
84/17 134/25 135/1
151/11 162/17 172/22!
bottom [9] 60/3 63/3
83/13 89/4 114/15
114/18 158/22 158/23)
179/20
bound [3] 90/14
106/18 190/12
bowl [1] 128/9
box [1] 182/2
branch [8] 100/7
103/6 167/4 167/8
167/21 168/7 168/9
(63) backfilling - branch
B
branch... [1] 191/16
branch's [1] 116/9
branches [1] 100/10
brand [4] 11/11 13/3
13/6 186/15
Brander [3] 92/12
92/14 92/20
break [13] 51/16
51/21 56/3 56/6 67/19)
160/19 161/11 161/16)
163/17 164/20 164/24
165/1 172/5
breakdown [1]
171/25
breaking [1] 95/19
breakthrough [1]
172/3
brief [5] 90/16 90/22
90/22 149/20 149/24
briefed [1] 116/11
briefing [4] 116/13
148/25 179/15 179/16
briefings [2] 114/12
115/8
briefly [4] 13/23
27/16 97/22 137/4
bring [16] 3/15 10/22
15/10 17/20 44/8
50/18 52/2 52/9
107/17 114/13 115/13}
122/21 162/18 162/21
163/3 166/4
bringing [5] 49/9
49/11 159/17 160/1
163/1
broad [4] 66/1 67/11
67/12 132/4
broadcast [1] 41/17
broader [3] 57/10
113/11 113/12
broadly [3] 29/20
67/2 180/11
Brocklehurst [5]
41/11 117/5 146/15
153/10 172/3
Brocklesby [3]
115/12 153/11 153/12)
broken [2] 58/22
94/22
brought [10] 5/24
13/10 31/11 68/23
69/2 103/16 130/1
130/3 159/10 165/19
budget [4] 149/2
bugs [2] 167/2 170/4
build [15] 43/7
114/23 117/25 135/4
154/1 155/10 155/13
155/21 155/21 155/24
155/25 156/8 156/8
156/23 161/3
building [10] 16/24
18/22 54/14 54/16
155/4 155/9 155/18
156/2 156/20 156/25
built [2] 49/5 155/23
bullet [3] 11/8 74/1
153/1
bullets [1] 180/21
bullied [1] 22/20
bully [4] 22/25
bunch [1] 178/21
bureaucracy [1]
38/24
bursaries [1] 186/1
Burton [5] 20/17 21/6
22/15 24/18 59/13
Burton's [1] 191/4
business [115] 3/21
3/23 4/1 4/6 4/12 4/14
4/23 4/25 5/20 5/24
7/9 7/14 7/25 8/4 8/7
8/17 9/11 9/12 9/15
9/21 9/25 11/20 12/11
12/12 12/14 12/20
13/3 14/9 14/18 15/13
15/20 15/21 17/15
17/19 18/25 24/21
25/22 27/20 28/10
29/12 32/19 35/11
36/5 39/1 39/20 40/5
40/6 40/18 41/12
43/21 44/2 45/23 46/1
49/6 49/19 52/8 54/17
59/5 61/7 61/17 61/21
62/22 64/23 66/6 68/3
69/1 71/14 72/14
74/13 76/5 78/14
79/15 79/20 84/7
89/22 90/7 94/22 95/1
95/7 96/5 101/21
106/9 106/19 107/1
111/3 112/16 112/23
115/4 117/9 118/4
118/17 119/14 119/16)
124/2 124/11 130/2
131/6 136/20 136/24
137/3 138/10 139/6
141/6 142/14 143/8
144/1 145/4 154/8
158/1 158/9 171/9
174/25 177/12 190/22)
193/12
business's [1] 26/17
businesses [6] 2/9
4/20 20/23 20/23
24/23 40/17
busy [1] 3/11
but [227]
button [1] 116/21
c
calendar [1] 91/11
calibre [1] 126/3
call [2] 61/15 88/3
called [7] 44/10
88/11 106/10 106/23
109/17 120/3 133/24
Calum [1] 42/21
camaraderie [1]
132/21
came [16] 15/18
34/10 61/3 67/19
72/24 73/12 95/7
95/24 96/9 99/17
113/2 115/4 130/4
130/5 147/2 147/24
Camelot [14] 109/9
109/11 110/14 110/16
110/17 111/17 111/21
112/6 120/8 130/4
130/23 142/9 145/6
145/7
Cameron [7] 94/12
95/16 95/20 124/21
133/16 147/12 147/16}
can [191] 1/9 1/16
1/18 1/20 1/22 2/7 3/7
7/6 10/22 13/23 15/10
15/25 16/4 16/5 16/5
16/13 17/3 17/25 18/3
18/20 19/2 19/8 19/12
21/22 24/8 27/16 28/5
28/14 29/5 29/8 32/1
34/4 36/20 36/22
37/21 38/21 38/23
40/10 40/23 41/7
42/12 43/12 44/7 45/7
45/22 46/11 48/7 49/5
50/25 52/18 53/23
54/2 55/4 55/10 55/17
56/6 56/7 56/8 56/11
61/4 63/3 63/3 63/16
65/17 66/18 66/19
69/4 70/15 70/23
72/20 72/21 77/3
78/15 79/3 80/2 80/8
81/16 81/22 83/16
83/22 83/24 85/11
85/19 86/24 89/16
92/18 93/25 94/7
96/24 97/6 97/17 98/9
102/3 102/4 102/6
105/12 106/12 108/10
108/17 108/18 112/19}
114/13 115/7 115/14
116/5 119/2 120/22
121/5 122/14 125/7
125/8 125/19 125/20
126/8 127/3 127/7
127/10 128/19 130/25}
132/8 133/5 133/25
134/13 135/14 136/25I
138/6 138/23 139/19
140/1 140/3 140/8
140/12 140/14 141/15}
142/5 142/11 142/13
142/17 142/22 143/11
144/7 144/12 145/21
146/1 146/16 146/17
1477 147/10 148/4
155/18 155/23 157/2
158/5 158/17 158/22
160/15 161/11 161/24}
162/5 162/23 164/2
164/13 164/22 166/4
166/6 169/9 172/2
172/22 173/6 174/3
176/23 178/9 178/10
178/13 178/17 179/8
179/9 180/12 183/2
183/6 183/18 184/7
184/15 184/17 185/7
189/1 189/1 189/4
190/15 190/21 192/17)
can't [18] 43/21
56/13 65/19 65/23
70/8 75/7 75/8 78/8
97/25 115/11 121/21
122/11 123/8 146/12
148/8 178/14 181/25
183/17
cancer [1] 29/14
candid [1] 43/8
candidate [3] 26/9
26/12 47/24
candidates [3] 21/15
21/17 28/11
candidly [1] 188/20
cannot [4] 115/6
134/24 168/2 178/5
capability [13] 16/23
27/21 32/7 32/18
52/25 64/25 65/9
85/24 97/13 124/4
129/8 137/21 180/4
capable [7] 17/4
21/13 50/8 54/19
54/21 85/17 98/8
capacity [2] 142/16
180/4
Cardew [5] 11/5 11/6
11/12 12/24 13/7
carefully [1] 167/18
Carla [1] 123/15
Carla Stent [1]
123/15
carried [6] 21/23
62/10 62/12 71/12
72/3 123/13
carry [1] 60/19
carrying [1] 71/8
Cars [1] 109/7
case [14] 34/8 36/8
55/17 57/21 60/10
71/1 86/11 90/17
90/20 90/25 101/15
128/20 158/10 189/20}
cases [6] 53/15
71/11 75/4 75/14
101/3 177/2
cash [3] 117/2 167/9
189/14
cause [7] 32/14
38/19 76/9 129/11
134/22 136/6 188/19
caused [2] 189/7
189/11
causes [5] 39/21
188/13 188/16 188/18)
188/24
causing [2] 75/3
119/9
caveats [1] 12/24
CB [8] 80/4 153/9
153/13 160/5 160/11
161/4 161/8 161/19
cements [1] 17/5
cent [20] 18/6 18/9
115/21 115/21 115/22!
115/22 116/1 116/3
116/3 116/6 116/17
118/14 118/19 142/10)
145/7 145/9 154/14
154/16 191/11 191/14)
central [2] 106/9
106/19
centre [7] 40/19
122/8 122/9 122/9
122/9 144/21 163/3
centred [1] 39/6
centres [1] 2/18
CEO [19] 19/13 19/14
19/16 19/17 19/20
20/14 20/19 22/18
24/22 109/12 117/5
131/6 131/7 131/13
132/19 133/3 143/3
145/6 172/4
CEO's [2] 19/13
20/18
certain [9] 9/12 17/25]
25/15 57/23 88/1
144/13 150/10 160/13)
165/4
certainly [27] 6/8 9/1
9/2 13/5 30/8 33/10
45/21 48/5 70/20
106/8 108/1 125/6
125/14 126/22 133/20)
138/10 142/7 151/12
159/25 164/11 171/25)
173/16 182/13 183/18}
186/14 190/24 192/1
certainty [1] 156/14
cetera [1] 74/21
CFO [5] 96/2 124/17
124/17 133/3 143/4
chair [28] 5/25 20/16
21/6 24/11 24/16
24/17 24/19 26/7 26/9
27/6 28/7 28/9 28/16
28/16 28/17 28/22
44/11 109/17 109/21
109/22 113/20 114/13)
145/22 158/20 179/23)
181/24 185/21 192/10)
chairman [9] 111/10
(64) branch... - chairman
Cc
chairman... [8]
111/12 119/5 123/1
127/9 132/10 133/24
135/15 146/13
Chairs [1] 23/6
challenge [5] 43/20
53/21 112/3 125/4
138/18
challenged [1] 13/3
challenges [4] 12/15
84/10 129/22 171/8
champion [1] 49/14
chance [2] 46/6
126/4
Chancellor [1] 55/7
change [36] 7/25
8/19 9/16 25/18 35/1
36/18 39/1 41/8 52/16
55/3 73/7 73/18 82/14
82/14 122/16 126/8
128/6 128/11 144/16
145/1 145/2 145/3
145/4 145/17 145/22
145/25 146/4 146/5
146/10 146/16 146/17)
146/20 146/22 163/7
163/12 1741/5
changed [7] 7/2 9/8
34/25 55/22 73/24
112/1 180/12
changes [16] 13/21
25/19 25/24 35/9 36/3
39/9 41/12 51/7 52/13
70/11 77/7 85/18
85/19 124/7 143/21
146/1
changes/politics/sha
reholders [1] 124/7
changing [3] 37/24
73/16 73/20
channelled [1]
150/19
channels [2] 121/8
152/20
chaotic [2] 5/8 15/17
Chapman [1] 193/8
characterisation [1]
26/23
charge [1] 9/18
charged [2] 57/4
57/11
chased [1] 152/1
check [2] 121/9
160/23
checks [4] 36/7
151/3 169/24 170/2
Chesterfield [1]
189/6
Chief [24] 2/19 2/22
2/25 3/10 6/20 8/22
10/4 17/13 19/21
19/25 25/2 25/3 25/7
33/1 33/12 35/4 35/20
51/6 51/9 106/10
106/23 107/3 190/4
192/14
children [1] 186/2
choice [3] 135/4
162/15 172/8
Chris [1] 115/11
Christmas [1] 67/19
Cl's [4] 149/21
ClO [1] 131/2
circling [1] 81/2
circumstances [9]
TIT 7/18 32/22 53/5
60/7 74/11 115/15
165/6 175/17
cite [1] 34/18
City [2] 165/24
173/25
civil [9] 112/17
168/13 168/16 169/6
170/14 170/15 173/2
173/13 190/9
claim [5] 29/25 30/9
31/11 76/19 77/2
claiming [2] 72/5
76/1
claims [3] 30/1
147/25 179/4
Claire [1] 149/25
clarifies [1] 48/7
clarify [3] 63/20 95/6
143/11
clarity [3] 39/19
75/21 125/25
Clarke [1] 152/16
class [1] 2/1
clause [1] 161/11
clauses [2] 160/19
189/13
clear [26] 4/10 15/19
39/15 39/17 41/1
62/15 80/13 82/10
84/8 84/12 84/13
91/14 112/13 124/23
124/25 127/24 129/21
132/14 137/2 141/17
142/19 142/20 159/22)
177/14 181/6 190/6
clearly [15] 60/18
78/10 78/11 80/16
111/9 116/22 117/14
126/14 137/5 143/3
143/3 155/21 165/21
172/16 173/4
clients [1] 183/12
cloaked [1] 47/22
close [8] 29/7 29/16
29/19 30/3 30/15
49/16 91/8 172/18
Closed [1] 137/21
closely [1] 82/18
cloud [1] 147/13
Co [1] 185/17
coaching [1] 2/8
code [4] 161/23
161/25 162/1 162/8
cohort [1] 38/5
Coincidentally [1]
47/11
collaboration [1]
101/23
colleague [10] 36/25
40/13 41/15 45/1
45/11 45/17 45/21
65/13 97/12 102/11
colleagues [28]
10/21 13/1 14/1 38/9
38/11 38/13 38/14
38/17 38/17 38/18
38/20 40/14 41/3
41/25 68/3 68/25 71/9
71/21 72/14 75/10
75/20 84/5 91/19
91/23 98/6 102/18
104/19 122/14
collective [2] 98/8
153/7
coloured [1] 26/10
come [41] 4/16 4/22
19/12 21/17 24/23
25/22 26/11 29/5
42/12 48/8 51/18 55/4
57/3 57/12 65/19
66/19 67/22 87/17
92/17 92/18 99/21
103/2 107/25 121/4
125/5 125/6 127/17
128/4 128/7 128/14
136/14 146/5 146/19
148/4 148/15 164/22
165/4 172/5 174/1
174/19 175/11
comes [3] 3/18
126/13 144/5
comfort [1] 169/2
comfortable [3] 4/5
53/8 189/17
coming [8] 12/9
46/20 56/9 117/20
138/23 158/2 179/4
181/16
commas [1] 87/2
commencement [1]
163/23
comment [7] 29/13
64/14 71/23 105/13
151/4 152/11 152/20
comments [7] 29/24
38/24 46/4 46/5 104/4
168/4 168/25
commercial [2]
20/22 50/8
commercially [3]
122/13 133/7 177/1
commercials [1]
130/13
commissioned [2]
62/12 150/7
commissioning [4]
22/6 22/8 22/9 22/11
commit [2] 121/21
182/1
commitment [5] 32/6
157/17 160/8 163/21
183/6
committed [3]
174/12 175/12 175/19}
committee [7] 19/19
22/3 44/19 59/15
59/23 136/14 136/20
committees [2]
59/11 138/2
committing [1]
160/17
common [9] 8/2
134/17 135/6 135/11
135/25 141/21 141/23
187/21 191/16
commonly [1] 34/19
communicate [2]
41/2 41/14
communicated [2]
45/21 135/1
communicating [2]
19/3 38/3
communication [12]
11/17 13/1 13/2 18/21
41/10 41/12 52/6 63/6)
65/7 90/1 100/25
152/17
communication’ [1]
40/16
communications [9]
11/13 12/12 13/10
13/16 40/12 40/21
42/10 71/7 161/17
communities [2]
144/23 186/13
community [1]
170/21
companies [2] 8/22
103/4
company [14] 101/25
109/18 113/13 114/7
120/12 123/14 123/21
124/14 139/21 142/10
159/6 161/6 172/21
176/24
compared [3] 20/22
21/2 154/7
comparing [1] 112/7
comparison [1]
20/21
compensate [1]
88/16
compensation [24]
69/10 69/19 70/13
72/6 77/6 78/15 81/18
82/1 82/22 84/23 85/9)
86/3 86/13 88/14
17719 177/18 177/24
178/18 180/15 180/18}
180/23 181/2 185/11
186/6
compete [1] 133/8
Competence [1]
137/22
competitive [1]
110/20
competitor [1] 124/7
complaint [8] 46/11
57/5 57/5 57/22 58/1
58/8 59/10 84/3
complaints [9] 21/24
36/2 56/21 66/6 66/7
94/18 95/17 95/18
177124
complete [2] 132/11
161/4
completed [1] 159/5
completely [5] 55/19
55/21 93/7 171/3
174/10
completeness [1]
134/25
Complex [2] 68/13
92/1
Compliance [1]
135/22
complicated [2]
35/12 90/3
comply [2] 173/6
173/22
components [2]
155/14 173/5
composed [1] 62/17
composition [1]
112/6
comprehend [1]
14/20
comprehensive [6]
41/19 45/14 45/24
45/25 134/9 134/19
comprehensiveness
[1] 37/9
compromise [1]
174/2
compulsory [3]
79/16 79/20 81/11
concede [1] 127/15
concern [15] 30/21
41/8 46/9 72/11 76/5
124/23 130/8 133/15
138/20 138/21 138/22!
151/21 152/24 154/6
192/7
concerned [9] 28/1
35/19 61/19 87/15
96/3 101/5 143/22
151/22 170/12
concerning [2] 23/1
150/6
concerns [21] 18/8
28/13 43/6 49/1 51/11
57/1 83/11 83/22
(55) chairman... - concerns
Cc
concerns... [13]
85/25 92/24 114/22
117/25 124/25 126/10}
135/17 136/3 150/5
152/3 153/8 154/1
184/8
concerns/issues [1]
153/8
conclude [1] 175/22
concluded [1] 31/14
concluding [2] 91/9
92/3
conclusion [3] 63/25
64/4 162/11
concrete [2] 41/7
145/20
conditions [2]
153/22 155/15
conduct [4] 30/7
56/10 60/12 119/13
conducted [6] 15/15
44/14 64/9 91/21 92/1
100/12
confidence [9] 10/17
16/23 36/18 37/22
40/13 51/12 70/4
149/9 192/18
Confidence’ [1]
37/19
confident [13] 9/13
9/16 36/8 36/15 37/5
37/8 50/10 52/12 82/3
91/6 100/17 149/7
174/3
confidential [2]
122/25 153/7
confidently [3] 43/12
70/9 78/8
confine [1] 35/13
confined [3] 25/16
32/10 32/10
confines [2] 39/18
96/15
confirm [5] 1/18 1/20
1/22 108/18 185/7
confirmation [2]
176/2 177/22
confirming [2] 44/19
170/6
conflict [6] 22/10
60/20 70/2 70/3 141/3
149/4
conflicted [1] 60/7
conflicts [6] 46/12
49/1 74/25 78/22
141/7 153/8
confused [1] 162/6
confusion [1] 39/21
connected [3] 10/18
68/23 130/13
connection [1]
115/22
connectivity [1]
101/12
conscious [2] 12/18
99/14
consequence [2]
136/5 136/12
consequences [3]
33/6 53/1 65/10
consider [20] 5/6
21/13 37/6 48/16 49/4
52/5 70/6 71/16 86/2
111/21 112/7 126/19
129/23 145/22 173/20)
173/21 174/9 186/25
187/2 187/3
considerable [1]
181/19
consideration [4]
27/3 28/9 35/23 72/10
considerations [2]
35/24 70/10
considered [2]
128/24 144/10
considering [3] 35/4
127/5 138/4
considers [3] 11/24
167/16 167/22
consistency [3] 9/9
13/18 34/14
consistent [2] 63/5
170/18
constant [4] 8/18
18/16 86/18 86/19
constantly [4] 36/6
40/5 82/16 113/23
constitute [1] 159/9
constraints [1] 124/6
constructive [1]
43/20
consult [5] 100/1
100/4 184/1 184/2
184/17
consultancy [1]
101/21
consultant [1]
100/12
consultation [3]
101/20 184/13 184/14)
consulted [4] 20/2
20/5 20/8 98/12
consuming [1]
129/19
contact [11] 5/16
47/4 47/9 47/10 47/10
47/14 47/17 47/25
48/3 61/13 62/3
contacted [1] 47/18
contained [1] 60/5
content [1] 183/23
contest [1] 55/13
contested [1] 55/14
context [16] 3/21
12/3 12/4 14/2 14/17
32/3 60/8 73/7 73/10
95/24 96/6 96/7
117/18 124/22 139/11
157/18
contingency [2]
161/5 161/9
contingent [1] 84/6
continuation [1]
157/10
continue [17] 16/5
17/14 49/13 77/22
79/8 82/20 114/17
116/14 116/15 130/16
154/8 163/6 167/2
168/5 171/11 172/7
177/21
continuing [4] 90/6
157/17 165/2 171/9
continuity [3] 61/17
78/15 158/23
contract [21] 11/1
11/15 11/25 12/3 12/7
12/23 68/25 157/12
158/1 158/3 158/9
158/12 160/17 160/20
160/22 162/11 162/15}
163/19 171/7 187/6
187/11
contracted [2] 10/7
159/17
contractor [1] 84/6
contractors [3] 104/9
154/15 154/17
contracts [3] 104/2
104/13 187/21
contractual [5] 17/1
104/14 168/6 170/7
192/5
contractually [2]
106/18 190/12
contribute [1] 34/1
contributed [1]
160/12
contribution [2]
33/24 84/15
control [7] 61/11
78/13 118/8 135/19
135/20 136/1 162/20
controls [4] 115/4
118/11 135/1 169/2
controversial [1]
65/11
conversation [28]
18/16 29/22 30/11
43/10 50/5 58/13
60/24 60/25 61/2
61/22 81/2 94/20 96/9
96/15 96/18 96/19
118/22 130/22 140/24
141/2 159/21 159/24
160/1 162/2 169/15
169/17 178/6 179/23
conversations [17]
19/6 29/22 35/6 36/14]
72/8 73/11 78/8 78/9
111/10 113/4 130/21
146/2 147/15 164/4
172/22 177/20 177/21
conviction [2] 45/22
64/14
convictions [2] 88/8
88/12
COO [1] 131/7
COO/CEO [1] 131/7
cooperate [4] 74/13
175/7 176/21 188/12
cooperation [5]
170/8 182/20 183/1
183/6 193/17
cope [1] 50/7
core [3] 92/7 160/12
160/24
corporate [7] 9/6
11/17 12/20 13/15
24/23 42/10 77/12
correct [39] 2/3 2/12
2/13 2/21 9/23 11/6
22/7 67/17 76/4 76/5
80/24 83/14 94/13
95/3 102/20 102/24
103/19 105/4 108/15
109/2 109/8 109/10
109/12 109/13 109/19}
109/20 109/24 109/25}
110/4 121/12 138/19
149/11 159/18 168/22
175/2 175/3 176/6
176/8 176/9
correcting [1] 138/24
correspondence [9]
64/16 83/3 165/10
165/17 166/5 169/11
171/24 172/9 176/11
corroborated [1]
152/13
cost [8] 43/7 149/1
154/5 156/9 156/13
160/6 160/22 160/24
costed [1] 129/5
could [69] 3/15 3/16
4/20 7/10 17/20 22/17)
22/22 25/25 26/14
26/25 27/7 29/17
30/24 37/14 42/15
42/19 43/14 43/21
47/7 50/18 50/20
50/21 50/21 52/9
56/15 56/20 59/25
62/9 62/17 63/17 65/7,
65/19 66/11 70/18
70/19 71/2 72/16 77/6
79/23 80/16 81/21
82/24 83/4 84/13
93/25 99/11 99/20
113/14 114/15 114/17,
115/13 119/21 123/19}
135/21 148/13 157/6
159/10 160/14 161/14)
167/7 167/23 169/20
179/19 182/20 187/8
187/11 188/6 189/13
189/15
couldn't [4] 34/3
34/17 67/18 128/7
Counsel [4] 58/9
86/20 124/18 185/19
counselling [1]
185/23
counterargument [1]
17/5
counterproposals [1]
184/13
couple [9] 3/17 34/8
37/15 42/25 67/24
84/2 112/1 135/15
180/21
courage [1] 126/7
course [16] 20/12
32/25 36/12 93/7
117/21 119/4 121/6
121/7 138/19 138/24
139/24 154/16 161/25)
178/19 181/16 185/14)
Court [1] 88/8
cover [5] 6/23 46/24
48/5 51/9 157/14
coverage [1] 134/17
covered [3] 45/15
45/19 115/1
create [4] 37/21
97/23 98/2 167/7
created [1] 138/3
Creating [1] 102/2
creation [1] 77/21
credibility [1] 15/22
crime [5] 165/25
174/12 174/13 175/12
175/24
criminal [8] 166/22
167/24 168/20 169/25}
173/13 174/5 176/18
190/9
critical [12] 16/15
21/11 27/20 52/15
55/3 61/19 81/6 81/16
81/18 82/4 82/6 96/2
criticality [1] 62/21
critically [4] 18/23
52/23 54/19 170/19
criticism [2] 12/19
69/25
cross [1] 82/3
cross-functionally [1]I
82/3
CTO [1] 115/10
cultural [10] 51/24
52/16 64/21 83/19
86/1 102/11 103/21
141/18 141/20 180/3
culturally [1] 133/7
culture [29] 7/9
16/12 28/5 28/12
38/13 44/17 44/20
(56) concerns... - culture
Cc
culture... [22] 53/22
55/5 59/4 63/12 64/1
64/22 71/19 98/23
101/12 123/23 138/11
144/6 144/9 144/12
144/16 144/19 145/19)
145/22 145/25 146/11
146/16 146/18
curiosity [3] 53/4
54/13 102/23
curious [1] 53/2
curious' [1] 52/14
current [25] 21/14
25/23 28/16 63/14
72/7 75/17 81/23
91/16 91/18 109/21
114/23 115/18 116/11
4117/7 117/25 122/8
122/9 124/22 157/9
157/12 157/18 168/19)
169/7 180/22 180/24
currently [20] 9/21
20/24 92/5 103/11
103/24 109/14 129/24}
141/20 143/24 144/4
145/11 156/16 157/1
162/19 163/9 167/3
168/13 170/15 171/23
174/24
customer [2] 99/11
130/14
CV [2] 110/24 110/25
CWU [1] 43/17
D
Daewoo [1] 109/7
daily [1] 113/17
Dan [2] 171/17
171/20
data [14] 116/19
116/22 149/14 149/17)
163/3 166/2 166/17
166/21 167/10 168/1
168/13 170/3 170/6
173/7
database [3] 178/25
179/7 179/7
databases [1] 178/24
date [6] 155/23
156/22 156/23 157/9
159/17 181/22
dated [7] 1/14 24/3
70/17 108/15 134/1
AATINT 148/14
dates [1] 134/1
Davies [10] 21/25
22/1 22/20 22/25 23/8,
23/19 24/2 24/7 29/16
31/11
Davies' [2] 23/9
23/14
day [5] 61/2 61/6
62/4 111/25 193/23
days [5] 113/20
113/22 113/23 113/24)
147/18
DBT [1] 131/21
DCMS [1] 110/18
deal [13] 69/8 87/18
113/16 118/9 122/4
122/16 128/5 141/22
145/17 185/3 185/7
185/11 186/20
dealing [4] 82/23
116/21 177/17 178/4
deals [2] 87/21
185/12
dealt [2] 69/23 166/6
death [1] 22/3
debate [1] 176/10
debates [1] 139/14
December [6] 67/16
67/20 69/10 185/17
185/20 186/18
decide [1] 130/10
decided [2] 61/10
62/18
deciding [1] 137/14
decision [22] 12/22
20/9 33/20 35/13 74/4
80/18 80/23 81/8
90/17 90/21 121/21
128/16 128/17 143/19)
144/2 150/16 155/7
155/10 156/21 159/13)
176/3 177/15
decision-making [1]
35/13
decisions [18] 25/6
52/25 53/1 73/23
76/10 77/24 78/13
78/19 125/16 127/25
128/21 128/21 138/1
138/11 138/13 141/11
141/14 155/6
decisive [1] 132/18
Decker [1] 109/7
decreased [1] 38/16
decreasing [1] 79/15
deem [1] 90/21
deemed [1] 75/20
deeply [1] 44/21
defect [1] 150/18
defects [3] 116/18
167/2 170/5
defence [1] 138/4
defensive [1] 172/16
deference [1] 36/1
definitely [19] 7/21
12/2 18/16 18/24
20/25 36/19 41/6
42/17 43/2 43/18 44/5)
48/20 57/15 57/16
58/25 87/25 88/23
100/24 130/14
definition [2] 134/17
143/12
definitions [1]
102/16
deflecting [1] 125/16
degree [3] 2/1 2/9
50/14
delay [2] 77/18 80/11
delays [1] 75/19
deliberately [1]
150/20
deliberation [1] 87/8
deliver [4] 149/2
164/14 168/5 180/7
delivered [2] 156/9
156/15
delivery [2] 152/10
167/12
demanding [1] 23/22
demands [2] 4/14
129/10
demarcation [1]
39/16
demeanour [1] 6/6
demonstrably [1]
23/4
demonstrate [2]
44/17 127/10
denied [1] 44/23
departing [2] 11/13
46/23
department [13]
24/21 28/10 110/15
110/17 110/19 111/2
141/6 157/25 175/18
177/12 193/9 193/12
193/16
departments [4] 9/14
127/7 127/23 140/25
depend [2] 77/24
78/19
depends [2] 142/5
143/12
depleting [1] 129/15
Deputy [1] 35/4
describe [1] 137/3
described [1] 102/22
description [4] 50/19
162/2 162/21 162/22
descriptions [3]
38/12 102/8 162/24
design [10] 38/20
39/10 75/19 83/17
84/17 86/8 100/11
153/25 156/18 173/4
designate [1] 131/7
desire [1] 23/20
despite [3] 44/18
44/22 138/17
detail [12] 45/15
45/17 45/25 83/7
103/25 122/12 123/5
123/6 126/5 135/14
140/7 178/21
detailed [1] 17/10
details [1] 31/10
detected [1] 34/7
Detective [1] 177/3
determine [2] 73/14
78/11
determined [3] 25/13
131/25 150/18
detriment [1] 152/21
develop [1] 17/8
developed [1] 97/11
developing [3] 97/21
119/25 162/23
development [3]
5/12 47/3 95/11
developments [1]
153/16
dialogue [1] 43/19
did [55] 3/2 3/20 4/4
4/16 5/10 9/6 17/21
22/13 22/25 24/3
25/20 29/13 30/11
30/15 30/23 31/3 31/4,
34/11 37/11 49/24
60/25 61/2 61/24 62/1
64/17 66/20 67/4
67/13 67/21 68/1 68/9
80/14 84/25 94/18
99/21 99/21 99/25
100/1 100/4 100/4
105/7 110/9 110/11
110/15 110/24 119/12
123/8 134/8 145/6
151/6 155/3 160/7
180/25 180/25 184/2
didn't [27] 3/5 4/22
5/4 5/13 5/16 6/2 19/9)
30/13 30/13 30/21
32/19 33/23 34/18
43/5 45/5 47/9 47/20
60/17 66/25 67/3
84/25 90/21 98/16
99/23 99/23 183/21
183/25
difference [4] 66/20
98/15 99/8 162/24
differences [4] 67/1
67/3 67/4 67/14
different [17] 8/21
21/4 38/10 68/21
76/25 79/4 79/10 95/7,
96/24 101/15 103/20
110/17 110/18 127/22}
144/11 148/17 155/9
differently [1] 154/13
difficult [19] 7/16 9/9
20/21 36/12 39/6 53/6
53/22 71/23 73/13
76/11 76/13 79/24
82/12 105/20 133/19
142/7 149/13 149/15
179/1
difficulties [1] 73/20
culty [3] 4/4
53/21 95/19
digital [1] 132/3
Dignity [1] 26/22
diligence [2] 96/5
119/4
dim [1] 29/12
dimensions [1]
144/11
diminishing [1]
79/15
direct [10] 10/9 10/16)
10/20 10/20 32/24
35/21 74/25 106/7
106/14 153/8
directed [1] 44/15
direction [4] 119/10
122/1 127/24 151/14
directly [10] 3/9 10/2
19/16 94/3 100/14
100/22 101/7 102/19
104/12 158/1
Director [17] 2/14
11/13 11/17 13/16
27/21 42/9 49/7 49/23}
51/5 59/11 59/22
63/21 109/14 123/11
123/17 126/5 141/25
Directors [21] 27/5
27/8 27/24 48/9 48/11
48/16 59/15 61/25
63/15 98/11 113/16
119/22 124/5 125/24
126/1 126/22 130/12
132/12 132/20 133/1
142/4
disable [1] 151/2
disabled [1] 151/8
disagree [2] 18/6
18/9
disappointing [2]
117/16 191/24
disclose [1] 188/18
discouragement [1]
152/19
discover [1] 113/8
discrepancies [14]
115/23 116/2 116/6
116/7 116/8 116/15
116/25 118/13 118/15)
118/16 167/8 167/21
168/9 191/15
discrepancy [2]
115/25 168/11
discrimination [1]
28/14
discriminatory [1]
26/20
discuss [3] 79/23
152/7 161/23
discussed [21] 9/24
18/15 18/19 23/8
24/19 55/9 61/4 68/9
79/24 95/22 96/22
97/3 97/22 98/10
100/10 100/15 100/16
(67) culture... - discussed
D
discussed... [4]
149/21 160/3 172/25
173/24
discussing [1] 94/11
discussion [12]
77/23 81/23 86/18
86/19 95/14 97/16
117/11 157/21 158/24}
159/16 160/15 161/25)
discussions [8]
24/16 24/17 83/1 83/2
157/9 157/16 158/6
168/18
Disparate [1] 139/1
disproportionate [1]
84/4
dispute [5] 94/23
116/20 116/24 189/5
189/25
disrupt [1] 164/16
disrupted [1] 186/3
dissatisfaction [5]
19/10 22/21 23/1 24/2)
24/5
dissatisfied [1] 23/4
dissimilar [1] 145/8
distinctly [1] 68/21
distress [1] 12/11
distressed [2] 61/5
61/23
distressing [1]
105/16
distribution [1] 2/18
disturbing [1] 47/23
divergence [1]
134/22
diversity [1] 27/4
divided [1] 61/14
division [4] 68/14
68/16 68/17 68/20
divulged [1] 96/14
DNA [1] 137/24
do [195]
document [25] 10/24
92/6 92/18 96/24
96/25 97/1 97/18
101/15 102/1 119/23
121/14 121/2 123/1
123/7 123/8 133/23
133/25 134/6 135/12
135/13 146/25 166/10
166/11 179/14 187/10}
documentation [2]
165/13 165/22
documents [2] 17/23
100/21
does [31] 11/14 16/8
19/21 26/10 27/13
37/13 42/5 50/11
50/13 50/23 53/15
60/18 71/2 71/4 80/19)
83/11 87/18 101/13
102/18 117/17 127/5
129/1 129/3 138/20
142/1 144/17 170/15
171/7 180/18 187/24
188/5
doesn't [21] 10/6
16/8 16/9 26/10 46/18)
46/18 52/20 82/6
97/24 98/3 99/18
99/22 101/7 103/18
104/7 104/9 116/22
132/21 164/16 185/11
192/3
doing [23] 15/7 40/4
49/9 54/19 63/1 64/8
79/19 81/5 85/16 99/2
100/23 101/9 104/17
112/12 114/4 119/4
119/15 141/7 144/13
144/15 155/5 178/5
178/15
domain [2] 67/16
67/21
don't [63] 17/1 25/5
25/19 26/2 31/9 42/7
43/10 48/2 55/11
57/18 57/19 59/19
60/10 62/6 62/6 65/5
69/21 70/25 75/7
81/19 83/6 86/5 89/21
90/1 90/18 97/17
100/21 101/9 102/4
110/13 111/9 111/19
117/10 125/8 127/4
128/18 129/1 130/9
138/9 141/20 144/5
149/6 149/6 154/18
156/5 158/5 163/7
164/11 165/9 172/18
173/3 177/14 177/19
177/21 178/14 182/21
183/13 184/11 186/16)
190/17 190/19 190/23)
192/19
done [13] 18/20
21/20 39/8 39/22
49/19 75/13 77/1
80/14 85/7 96/16
105/8 105/10 119/17
doubt [4] 24/10
168/15 184/8 191/10
down [58] 4/7 15/19
19/12 29/5 29/7 29/16
29/19 30/3 30/16
32/15 35/10 36/22
38/7 42/12 46/10 48/8
50/21 54/20 55/4
56/20 58/22 60/2
61/16 63/10 66/19
72/20 76/14 77/6
77/12 80/2 92/11
92/18 94/23 95/19
97/6 102/6 114/16
114/19 126/2 126/25
130/25 131/14 132/8
133/5 134/13 148/4
153/6 153/20 158/17
160/7 163/15 166/9
178/1 178/1 187/12
187/16 188/3 188/6
drafted [3] 101/18
101/20 183/21
draining [1] 129/19
drama [1] 75/25
draw [1] 145/21
drawn [1] 92/9
drive [4] 52/12 126/7
133/11 192/10
driven [3] 75/17
127/25 152/9
drives [1] 82/15
driving [1] 40/12
due [13] 8/18 12/8
20/12 21/18 22/9
22/10 94/23 94/25
96/5 119/4 121/6
134/16 157/12
duplicative [1] 39/20
during [8] 3/11 23/9
23/12 26/6 118/2
118/3 153/25 154/4
dust [1] 62/15
duties [3] 71/9 71/12
187/13
dynamics [1] 36/4
E
each [13] 5/10 5/14
22/4 41/21 52/15
53/19 53/20 56/11
128/16 129/18 148/20}
149/19 180/21
earlier [8] 15/17
32/22 36/25 49/12
65/4 81/17 99/6
136/11
early [4] 62/7 94/21
147/3 147/4
easier [1] 89/17
easiest [1] 97/9
easily [2] 99/12 136/4)
economic [1] 185/12
economically [1]
122/5
EDI [2] 27/19 28/13
education [2] 186/2
186/3
effect [6] 7/25 26/10
86/14 118/21 176/5
187/17
effected [1] 187/18
effective [5] 63/5
84/19 152/16 178/5
180/7
effectively [13] 7/12
61/12 61/15 79/7
79/12 84/15 93/15
113/14 114/7 115/12
154/4 162/19 181/22
effectiveness [1]
83/12
efficient [4] 135/21
efficiently [1] 114/8
efforts [3] 7/13 17/18
99/2
either [5] 9/2 40/16
65/8 110/9 159/17
Eldridge [2] 49/25
71/2
Eldridge's [1] 70/22
element [3] 45/22
58/21 173/14
elements [8] 30/14
39/17 41/14 58/16
119/16 160/2 163/14
163/24
elephant [2] 107/16
107/17
elicit [1] 99/23
Elliot [6] 62/6 63/7
63/17 98/13 98/16
130/21
else [5] 7/20 22/9
52/18 56/8 140/21
elsewhere [2] 12/10
779
email [16] 47/11
47/18 47/19 56/16
56/22 60/2 60/5 60/8
60/14 61/3 61/9 61/9
62/14 148/13 150/19
166/10
emailed [2] 60/3 83/3
embedded [2] 54/5
146/18
embrace [1] 142/11
emerge [1] 69/23
emotional [1] 105/13
emphasise [1] 78/22
emphasising [1] 41/2
employ [1] 102/10
employed [5] 10/15
70/12 77/17 95/15
103/11
employee [2] 74/9
102/7
employees [18]
10/10 10/12 17/6
25/12 44/16 63/14
69/25 71/11 72/7
76/23 100/7 102/20
102/22 103/8 104/9
106/7 106/14 147/11
employer [2] 13/3
95/8
employers [1] 9/1
employment [10]
23/10 29/25 30/8
31/11 31/19 74/10
94/23 95/23 96/22
103/4
enable [1] 143/20
enabling [1] 180/5
enacted [1] 82/10
encompassed [1]
161/23
encompassing [3]
16/16 59/4 64/6
encounter [2] 6/5
50/5
encourage [1] 53/16
end [13] 67/10 67/20
91/10 91/10 116/25
116/25 117/3 117/3
154/4 157/13 167/10
192/16 192/17
ending [1] 54/18
endorsement [1]
170/20
energy [7] 125/1
126/7 129/9 129/15
129/20 129/23 130/1
enforcement [2]
170/8 190/8
engage [2] 147/10
171/12
engagement [7]
36/25 51/5 63/22
63/23 102/7 102/10
185/3
engaging [1] 95/1
engineer [1] 143/25
engineers [1] 151/1
English [2] 142/22
142/24
enormous [1] 111/24
enough [11] 8/8 8/10
32/19 53/18 85/17
104/16 125/25 129/9
130/13 132/21 182/2
enquired [1] 165/21
enquiry [1] 124/22
ensure [13] 13/7
17/13 24/11 24/13
59/5 78/15 82/8 82/19I
85/7 85/23 104/14
104/18 182/20
ensuring [2] 21/7
54/5
enterprise [2] 115/2
143/20
entire [1] 160/13
entirely [3] 49/24
100/20 168/22
environment [4] 73/8
73/10 73/20 118/9
envisage [4] 114/2
144/7 165/5 177/12
Equally [1] 163/12
equivalent [1] 113/24)
Ernst [2] 120/15
122/24
error [1] 89/21
errors [3] 150/17
167/2 170/5
escalated [2] 136/20
(58) discussed... - escalated
E
escalated... [1]
138/13
escalation [1] 83/9
especially [2] 120/13
124/22
essential [1] 77/12
essentially [4] 97/20
104/3 104/7 104/8
establish [3] 15/21
82/12 170/18
established [4] 67/10
69/9 74/3 170/16
estimated [1] 159/12
et [1] 74/21
et cetera [1] 74/21
etc [1] 124/8
ethos [1] 101/22
evaluate [1] 106/4
evaluating [1] 40/5
even [15] 47/9 47/20
53/5 54/19 57/2 97/25
98/3 100/13 121/24
134/7 134/19 139/2
165/3 168/21 180/9
event [5] 114/3
168/16 169/6 170/13
188/17
events [3] 11/3 12/14
182/23
eventually [1] 138/13
ever [2] 155/3 175/4
every [12] 22/4 27/23
41/9 41/18 42/2 45/23)
46/1 50/5 58/20
101/13 111/25 116/3
everybody [7] 14/7
52/8 56/8 59/6 98/23
98/24 104/18
everybody's [1]
82/23
everyone [3] 1/3 53/7
132/15
everything [9] 17/3
29/17 53/13 53/14
125/16 140/8 163/2
163/3 178/14
evidence [32] 13/20
17/21 21/5 21/5 31/3
42/22 51/10 55/6
59/13 64/18 70/20
71/17 86/5 89/12
118/20 125/12 128/9
131/19 139/5 141/5
151/5 164/6 166/23
166/24 167/15 173/12
175/23 178/11 181/17)
184/24 191/4 193/4
evidenceltesting [1]
151/5
evident [1] 172/1
evolve [1] 181/6
ex [1] 153/13
ex-Accenture [1]
153/13
exacerbated [1] 8/16
exactly [15] 5/6 14/7
67/18 74/22 76/12
79/5 82/20 84/14
124/15 128/13 129/6
176/13 176/22 176/22)
191/25
examine [1] 171/4
examined [1] 77/16
example [31] 10/24
22/2 25/21 28/13
33/15 33/19 37/12
41/15 42/21 54/6
54/14 64/15 70/2 72/5
72/6 74/11 74/20
75/25 82/14 92/20
99/3 102/23 125/7
135/11 136/16 142/2
155/25 155/25 163/7
163/9 164/5
examples [3] 33/17
125/8 128/13
Excel [2] 135/4
135/12
excellent [3] 112/11
140/5 140/6
exchange [1] 165/16
excluded [1] 138/3
excluding [1] 101/7
exclusion [2] 100/13
101/10
Excuse [1] 105/22
Exec [5] 98/11
125/22 129/11 129/17)
146/15
execs [1] 130/12
execute [2] 81/9
160/6
executed [2] 39/1
161/18
executing [1] 81/10
executive [109] 2/22
3/10 3/24 4/2 9/8 11/2
11/19 13/8 17/12
17/13 18/15 19/6 19/7)
19/9 19/25 22/6 22/8
22/9 22/12 25/2 25/2
25/3 25/7 25/8 25/16
27/5 27/8 27/24 31/7
31/8 31/21 31/22
31/23 32/25 33/1 34/4
34/21 35/2 35/4 35/20)
36/16 36/21 37/10
37/18 37/25 39/4
41/19 41/21 43/14
45/20 47/8 47/12 48/9
48/11 48/15 49/15
57/14 59/5 59/10
59/15 59/22 61/13
61/24 63/15 63/21
67/23 68/7 70/16
72/17 83/2 95/25 97/8
101/24 109/14 113/16}
117/13 123/11 123/17]
124/2 124/5 124/10
124/11 124/15 125/24
126/1 126/4 126/5
126/22 130/11 130/15}
132/12 132/20 133/1
133/10 133/17 139/12]
141/25 142/4 143/13
143/23 145/7 145/24
146/14 150/13 157/3
178/12 190/5 191/10
192/15
Executive's [1]
129/20
executives [5] 46/20
48/11 126/22 132/24
132/24
exercise [1] 184/14
exercises [1] 122/19
existence [2] 87/17
167/6
existent [1] 139/1
existing [6] 6/22 12/7
14/12 38/6 180/1
180/13
exists [2] 132/5
187/25
exit [7] 122/22
122/23 123/11 123/24
159/2 159/8 171/12
exonerated [3] 57/4
57/12 88/17
exoneration [2] 55/8
73/18
expand [6] 7/6 16/14
32/1 34/4 102/3
185/14
expect [11] 19/9 20/2
20/4 20/8 21/1 21/15
28/23 36/17 82/5
146/22 193/17
expectation [4] 4/11
4/16 121/16 149/3
expectations [3]
24/13 40/25 126/1
expected [8] 3/24 5/5
6/17 6/24 8/6 16/21
111/7 111/13
expenditure [2]
11/23 12/19
expensive [1] 154/20
experience [38] 2/4
2/8 4/3 4/19 5/22 20/5)
20/24 24/25 28/12
28/24 32/2 32/4 32/17
33/25 35/15 48/14
49/7 49/23 68/8 77/11
81/18 81/19 97/13
98/23 103/3 103/5
103/9 103/19 103/20
110/14 111/17 112/4
117/7 128/12 130/24
142/7 143/5 147/21
experienced [12]
19/23 62/20 115/20
115/21 115/23 116/1
116/7 124/13 126/9
164/7 191/12 191/14
experiences [3]
16/13 49/5 186/9
experiencing [5] 4/1
49/18 115/25 118/15
192/6
experiment [1] 56/10
expert [11] 17/20
82/20 88/1 88/24
115/14 139/3 166/22
166/23 167/19 167/20
167/24
expertise [12] 33/17
54/12 54/23 84/17
84/22 85/9 103/21
106/4 112/9 112/14
112/15 112/18
Experts [4] 36/2
139/7 139/8 139/13
EXPG0000007 [2]
17/21 115/14
explain [3] 12/4
151/24 188/9
explained [2] 24/2
124/20
explains [1] 169/11
explanation [1]
124/12
explanations [1]
167/21
explanatory [1]
182/19
explicit [2] 99/13
99/14
explicitly [1] 98/17
explored [1] 77/22
express [1] 157/19
expressed [2] 51/10
57/1
extend [5] 99/2 158/1
158/12 162/15 1741/7
extended [3] 12/23
30/14 99/12
extending [1] 132/12
extends [1] 10/6
extension [15] 12/25
157/7 157/14 158/9
159/5 159/20 159/22
159/24 160/10 160/23
161/2 161/15 161/18
163/18 163/25
extent [10] 11/14
36/13 64/13 64/22
86/2 98/5 111/16
158/3 171/5 173/1
external [10] 11/23
27/8 75/17 81/5
100/11 120/14 124/6
157/18 159/11 171/12}
externally [1] 132/15
extreme [1] 79/19
extremely [7] 3/11
10/19 15/23 53/25
62/20 67/7 96/13
extremes [1] 21/6
F
faced [1] 73/21
facility [1] 188/25
facing [3] 17/11 32/9
129/10
fact [9] 15/19 49/11
64/21 71/20 97/24
112/23 128/21 180/17)
184/16
factor [1] 78/10
factually [2] 34/6
91/21
fail [1] 155/17
failed [1] 23/21
failing [1] 32/23
failings [4] 28/8
33/17 90/1 90/1
failure [1] 166/14
failures [2] 180/3
180/14
fair [4] 10/11 74/21
170/18 182/2
fairly [3] 16/16 53/19
168/9
faith [1] 166/17
fall [3] 19/14 27/13
56/22
fallout [2] 7/18 60/1
falls [1] 27/11
false [2] 190/10
193/12
familiar [6] 42/8
57/17 58/25 79/13
148/9 186/10
families [2] 105/19
185/24
far [19] 36/8 85/10
87/13 90/13 91/13
101/10 111/16 127/10}
131/4 131/17 143/22
144/20 156/14 165/5
166/2 175/17 178/10
186/15 188/2
fault [1] 189/9
fear [2] 28/15 138/11
feast [1] 85/18
February [4] 63/2
97/1 97/19 110/3
Federation [2]
183/22 184/12
Federations [1]
184/3
feed [1] 138/20
feedback [7] 8/3
40/21 99/9 125/21
169/14 184/1 184/12
feeding [1] 183/2
feeds [1] 153/19
(59) escalated... - feeds
F
feel [14] 6/7 7/13
25/4 33/23 36/8 36/15)
37/5 53/13 53/17
58/18 99/11 117/7
132/21 141/24
feeling [4] 23/12 57/1
57/16 65/13
feels [5] 48/13 49/17
53/7 57/20 127/1
fees [1] 161/7
fell [1] 44/24
felt [19] 3/21 5/20 6/6
6/15 7/6 7/13 8/4 8/8
12/17 14/18 23/15
27/20 33/20 34/3
34/16 35/13 38/9
38/11 67/8
fence [1] 81/13
few [18] 22/23 34/12
40/8 56/5 56/21 72/18)
72/25 73/1 79/2 79/10)
79/14 80/18 93/23
116/2 126/23 137/17
146/7 169/22
few’ [4] 76/21 79/25
80/4 80/6
field [1] 139/4
Fifth [1] 144/6
figure [4] 18/3 18/6
129/3 181/25
figures [4] 18/2 19/4
19/7 129/1
filed [1] 31/17
fill [1] 112/20
final [14] 16/6 77/24
78/19 81/8 92/6
108/17 121/1 121/1
153/1 153/19 169/12
170/10 177/8 179/14
finally [3] 137/14
186/11 190/25
Finance [1] 109/9
financial [4] 109/18
174/13 174/16 180/7
find [5] 53/5 97/25
168/24 172/22 177/6
finding [1] 7/15
findings [6] 26/17
63/4 116/10 117/18
137/11 140/14
finds [1] 22/24
fine [10] 31/16 31/19
55/17 66/18 87/23
89/4 89/10 175/21
183/8 193/15
finish [2] 105/12
182/22
finished [2] 112/12
120/21
finishes [1] 94/24
finishing [1] 117/19
firm [4] 11/6 120/3
156/7 159/18
firmly [1] 80/15
firms [1] 11/23
first [33] 2/1 4/25 9/7
11/8 18/2 22/5 23/9
34/12 56/25 60/14
69/8 85/3 86/25 88/3
88/4 92/16 122/21
128/19 140/16 144/41
145/5 153/3 155/3
155/17 158/15 159/15)
169/12 170/10 170/25)
173/14 174/10 180/8
189/20
first’ [1] 124/9
firstly [3] 21/10 97/7
97/9
fit [4] 50/23 133/9
164/15 180/19
fitting [1] 10/4
five [14] 56/6 56/10
113/22 113/23 113/24)
137/16 156/10 159/21
159/25 160/17 161/15)
165/2 173/10 173/15
five years [1] 156/10
five-year [1] 160/17
fix [2] 4/1 18/20
fixable [1] 136/4
fixers [1] 129/11
flexibility [1] 160/20
flow [1] 63/19
flows [1] 183/5
Foat [9] 58/9 58/24
59/8 60/3 60/11 60/25
89/14 89/18 89/23
focus [18] 6/23 10/10
12/25 13/7 13/9 14/22
15/24 17/14 23/16
38/1 38/2 49/14 72/4
86/20 103/9 131/4
1314/7 137/1
focused [5] 86/21
98/7 100/23 129/13
146/15
focuses [1] 10/12
focusing [2] 97/12
151/5
follow [2] 107/12
144/19
following [10] 62/2
62/8 75/24 87/15
123/12 134/16 152/5
179/23 193/16 193/23)
follows [6] 31/10
74/5 123/25 142/18
145/19 192/3
footing [1] 190/22
footnote [2] 80/2
80/3
forefront [2] 77/13
82/22
forensic [1] 167/20
foresee [1] 39/14
forget [1] 175/15
forgive [2] 115/11
189/2
form [5] 5/4 47/17
90/11 93/6 191/13
formal [8] 2/8 2/8 3/5
3/14 6/13 42/1 74/10
134/2
formality [2] 6/18
15/14
formally [3] 47/24
47/24 110/6
formed [1] 158/9
former [5] 23/6 26/7
115/10 119/11 124/17]
formerly [1] 92/19
formulation [1] 52/5
forum [2] 26/16 34/9
forums [1] 143/19
forward [23] 13/12
20/11 21/12 24/14
40/1 40/2 41/23 53/10)
56/23 57/4 57/12
57/25 75/22 78/1
78/20 136/9 136/16
146/8 179/4 185/5
185/13 187/1 192/10
forward’ [1] 52/14
forwards [1] 132/17
foster [1] 28/12
found [12] 72/20
74/25 78/23 86/5
105/15 105/19 133/21
133/25 152/23 160/16}
185/1 185/2
four [11] 41/18 52/11
54/5 87/19 87/20
87/24 87/24 88/1 89/5
119/16 147/17
fourth [1] 146/25
fourthly [1] 137/11
fragmented [1] 9/12
framework [7] 52/1
52/4 54/7 99/5 102/21
135/20 136/1
frank [2] 132/14
144/5
frankly [6] 13/6 20/23}
41/21 46/4 113/15
188/20
Fraser [1] 187/22
fraud [1] 190/10
freeze [1] 118/7
freezes [3] 115/21
118/6 118/13
frequency [2] 23/12
115/25
frequently [2] 9/8
73/17
fresher [1] 35/7
Friday [1] 62/3
froing [1] 56/9
front [2] 1/11 108/13
frustrated [1] 44/22
FSL [1] 190/6
FUJ00243204 [1]
166/7
FUJ00243209 [1]
169/10
FUJ00243211 [1]
170/24
Fujitsu [59] 157/2
157/7 157/11 157/16
157/25 158/12 158/25}
159/2 159/8 159/20
159/23 160/8 161/7
162/5 162/11 162/16
162/20 163/1 163/2
163/6 163/19 163/21
164/4 165/7 165/8
165/11 165/16 166/1
166/8 166/16 166/20
166/23 167/3 167/16
167/22 168/2 168/5
168/15 168/19 168/25}
169/16 169/18 170/13}
171/6 171/23 172/4
172/6 172/11 172/14
172/20 172/24 173/5
173/15 173/17 174/3
174/8 176/23 190/2
190/16
fulfil [2] 52/24 190/15
full [10] 1/9 36/24
44/22 45/8 45/25
91/21 98/20 100/1
108/10 185/3
fuller [1] 41/18
fully [8] 3/22 45/20
63/7 114/5 129/5
129/5 163/25 188/20
function [28] 2/17
3/11 3/13 5/8 7/22
7/23 11/19 13/5 15/20)
15/21 15/22 32/12
51/8 77/22 77/24
78/18 82/21 83/15
84/8 84/14 85/23 86/8)
86/8 106/10 117/1
117/2 122/10 135/10
functionality [1]
162/19
functionally [1] 82/3
functions [3] 32/9
106/25 107/4
fund [1] 128/4
fundamental [3]
146/10 146/22 185/4
fundamentally [4]
16/24 48/20 119/19
155/7
funded [1] 128/24
funding [5] 127/20
128/14 128/17 128/22
158/8
funds [1] 191/20
further [27] 5/16 8/15)
8/18 13/25 15/7 25/19
38/4 74/6 78/25 79/3
79/5 80/5 80/11 83/12I
86/17 88/13 124/12
126/2 148/3 150/14
161/6 167/3 171/2
178/1 188/6 192/23
193/6
Furthermore [1] 24/1
future [19] 21/7
24/11 27/5 43/25 99/8I
100/21 119/14 119/18)
120/12 124/25 155/10)
155/22 156/24 158/24)
164/15 170/17 170/20)
173/19 180/5
Go
gaining [1] 153/24
gap [2] 77/11 82/11
gaps [5] 112/12
112/14 112/20 124/18)
134/16
Gareth [1] 152/16
gathered [1] 122/24
gauge [1] 102/10
gave [1] 149/23
GCPO [1] 123/1
GE [1] 34/20
general [8] 6/6 32/11
34/21 39/3 58/9 86/20
124/18 152/3
generally [12] 5/2
18/4 18/7 19/2 29/11
43/15 59/5 90/10
90/15 135/19 153/21
154/20
generated [1] 191/19
generating [1] 75/19
genuine [1] 130/38
genuinely [3] 47/4
47/25 48/5
get [46] 6/15 7/8 9/9
9/10 12/17 15/14
15/21 15/22 25/23
39/1 39/8 46/12 81/8
83/13 87/8 89/4
116/19 117/22 120/10)
122/19 125/24 128/1
131/11 135/25 139/14}
140/3 141/21 144/15
144/18 154/17 155/3
155/8 158/6 162/16
169/24 170/2 175/21
177/5 179/8 182/3
184/3 184/7 189/16
190/21 192/15 193/18)
gets [3] 39/21 116/17
126/5
getting [5] 33/9 39/22!
49/18 121/21 146/7
give [16] 1/9 33/16
37/25 46/15 48/21
108/10 125/7 125/8
125/12 129/1 132/14
(60) feel - give
G
give... [5] 154/25
155/25 163/7 169/2
178/17
given [33] 4/19 7/4
7/24 13/19 17/22 20/4
21/5 23/15 27/3 28/24
32/21 33/15 35/10
36/18 37/9 42/21 43/4
47/7 52/23 60/6 71/13)
95/15 131/7 133/6
133/19 149/11 158/18
160/7 161/3 169/1
178/11 181/17 189/3
gives [1] 16/22
giving [8] 38/3 38/4
41/1 53/17 70/2 75/11
86/22 178/11
GLO [1] 88/14
go [40] 9/11 22/4
25/20 26/22 39/7
46/13 56/7 56/8 83/7
89/14 94/4 94/6 97/5
97/17 99/23 100/1
100/19 102/7 102/12
105/7 113/15 113/16
122/11 123/5 125/19
125/20 137/17 142/13}
145/5 147/6 147/7
160/7 164/14 170/25
173/20 177/4 178/12
183/21 191/22 191/24}
goal [2] 141/21
141/23
goes [6] 46/9 79/18
145/16 167/11 177/15)
189/5
going [74] 1/5 1/12
10/9 13/12 13/12
13/19 16/5 19/13 22/3)
22/18 31/7 33/5 37/15
42/1 43/12 43/18
46/17 51/15 51/24
53/14 54/21 69/4 69/7
70/21 72/25 73/1
75/22 77/25 78/20
81/8 90/16 91/9 94/3
98/14 106/4 108/5
113/20 114/9 120/16
122/3 125/11 127/16
129/2 131/13 131/22
131/25 142/20 149/1
151/14 154/3 155/5
156/3 156/9 158/6
158/13 159/23 162/3
163/2 164/9 169/22
173/9 173/11 180/17
182/12 182/23 182/24)
185/5 185/13 187/1
187/9 192/12 192/19
192/21 193/11
gone [2] 8/18 107/8
good [16] 6/2 28/11
got [30] 5/14 20/4
48/21 50/8 50/16
53/11 53/18 62/21
86/10 108/5 112/10
139/2 139/14 140/6
146/3 183/19
46/22 47/12 50/8 54/7
55/19 56/14 61/16
67/12 80/23 81/15
85/24 87/13 89/1
93/23 97/1 103/8
106/3 106/14 106/17
106/23 118/10 120/22)
121/9 132/18 155/14
176/13 184/6 192/13
governance [12]
25/1 38/18 113/13
114/6 125/17 137/12
138/15 140/6 143/24
143/25 144/4 152/17
governed [1] 110/18
government [23]
23/7 24/12 24/20
77/23 111/3 112/18
119/20 120/25 121/19)
122/12 127/7 127/23
137/10 140/24 141/17,
157/10 157/20 157/23)
181/1 182/5 182/11
182/14 184/16
Government's [5]
75/21 77/25 78/2 78/5)
78/19
governmental [1]
124/16
grade [1] 76/25
Graham [1] 92/11
Grant [10] 114/6
120/15 137/12 137/18)
139/16 139/23 140/5
140/13 150/6 151/4
granted [1] 45/9
grappling [1] 28/7
grass [3] 89/14 89/25
90/3
grateful [5] 97/6
105/11 107/24 193/5
193/5
Gratton [2] 20/16
22/16
GRC [41] 134/24
great [17] 22/3 36/13
69/7 76/2 97/14 97/23
98/2 98/18 98/20
98/23 98/23 102/2
119/2 126/15 132/11
182/8 183/16
greater [1] 142/3
Greenhow [1] 42/21
grievance [1] 83/5
grip [1] 118/4
grips [1] 120/10
ground [2] 124/16
192/6
grounds [2] 26/21
152/23
group [48] 2/20 5/15
31/7 31/8 31/21 31/22
31/23 33/5 34/4 35/2
35/9 35/10 35/14
35/17 36/1 36/5 36/16
36/16 36/21 37/18
37/20 37/22 37/25
38/2 38/5 39/4 42/5
44/9 45/20 47/6 51/6
52/17 70/16 72/17
83/2 86/20 109/18
124/1 124/10 124/11
124/15 129/20 133/10
133/24 135/10 140/17]
150/12 157/3
group-wide [1]
140/17
grouped [1] 152/5
groups [7] 31/25
34/9 38/2 43/20 46/3
67/14 184/3
guess [2] 20/7 40/6
guidelines [1] 90/14
guilty [2] 57/4 57/11
guy [1] 172/20
H
had [150] 3/22 4/11
4/20 4/20 5/5 5/9 5/11
5/13 5/14 5/22 6/5 6/5
7/23 8/3 8/17 8/18 9/8
9/13 9/13 9/16 11/10
12/15 12/16 12/18
14/2 19/6 20/24 23/4
23/21 24/15 24/17
29/7 29/10 29/12
29/24 30/17 32/3
32/20 33/25 34/13
35/4 35/15 35/21
35/22 36/14 41/23
43/13 47/4 47/10
47/11 47/12 47/25
47/25 48/3 50/5 58/12
60/14 61/8 61/8 61/22
62/15 62/16 64/7 67/6
67/23 68/8 72/9 73/12
73/24 74/2 74/4 74/15
74/25 75/2 75/6 75/14
75/15 75/15 75/19
76/10 77/10 77/10
77/11 77/15 7/18
78/23 78/23 80/6
80/13 80/14 80/16
81/2 83/5 84/3 84/17
86/14 89/24 90/2 93/5
94/17 94/19 94/20
94/22 94/25 95/3 95/9
95/17 95/18 96/15
96/17 98/19 99/3 99/8
101/22 105/14 105/17
105/18 110/25 1114/1
1141/2 111/40 112/21
112/23 114/25 116/7
124/23 125/1 130/21
130/22 134/9 135/4
135/12 142/9 147/15
159/21 159/21 160/6
165/19 167/4 168/19
184/25
had/were [1] 124/23
hadn't [4] 48/6 57/6
95/6 119/7
half [1] 158/23
halfhearted [1] 54/3
halfway [1] 4/7
Hamilton [2] 92/15
149/25
hampered [1] 128/7
hand [4] 35/22 55/11
77/14 81/16
handed [1] 120/25
handled [2] 58/2 63/8
handover [2] 82/5
132/11
hands [3] 7/2 78/5
78/6
happen [15] 39/2
42/1 42/3 42/11 78/13)
80/16 80/17 82/6 82/6
115/6 148/9 168/12
182/20 182/21 192/2
happened [15] 14/8
29/18 32/22 45/13
62/2 80/20 86/6 93/2
95/10 105/18 114/22
115/5 147/21 148/2
148/8
happening [11]
39/14 43/11 49/10
55/20 82/25 97/20
113/4 117/16 124/25
151/23 191/25
happens [2] 51/1
82/8
happy [2] 132/6
184/10
hard [2] 48/25 145/25)
Harrington [1]
123/16
has [107] 1/23 4/14
11/4 11/9 11/10 14/9
16/6 18/25 20/1 21/8
21/11 21/19 22/1
24/15 31/14 33/1 36/2
36/4 36/5 36/10 36/13
36/18 36/18 36/21
37/18 39/11 41/6
41/10 41/11 41/22
42/21 43/4 44/14
50/16 53/3 53/13 55/9)
55/22 55/25 56/23
58/5 58/18 60/3 62/21
69/7 72/4 72/13 80/2
116/13 118/22 124/16)
147/25 148/25 157/16)
177/20 183/11 183/24)
82/12 82/19 82/20
84/21 85/7 85/7 86/5
86/11 86/13 86/15
91/3 91/5 91/25 92/12)
93/2 93/19 97/11
103/15 103/20 105/18)
108/24 115/5 117/11
118/4 118/17 121/10
128/16 131/17 132/25]
135/1 138/3 142/3
143/8 144/2 144/10
144/25 148/8 150/1
154/2 164/6 166/24
167/3 167/15 167/23
171/8 171/12 171/17
172/1 174/12 175/12
179/25 180/12 186/6
186/9 188/25 189/14
189/19 190/19 191/3
hasn't [2] 31/15
56/24
hat [1] 174/5
have [295]
haven't [21] 17/18
18/17 19/23 24/17
24/19 42/7 45/24
57/11 59/7 59/7 78/10
105/5 141/9 141/14
147/16 151/25 155/14}
178/20 188/21 190/20
192/23
having [26] 8/21 10/2!
15/4 18/14 19/6 24/21
24/23 29/1 33/4 35/6
35/7 42/8 58/13 63/15
104/20 130/11 137/9
142/13 145/15 145/17)
154/8 159/18 166/17
172/9 178/3 178/4
he [64] 5/18 5/22
20/1 22/20 23/1 23/10)
23/17 23/23 24/3 28/3
29/2 29/10 29/12
29/13 29/16 30/3 30/6I
30/13 30/15 30/20
35/21 35/22 43/4
49/17 49/18 50/2 50/7
50/10 50/10 50/11
50/12 50/13 50/14
50/15 50/16 58/4 60/3I
60/13 60/14 60/17
60/17 60/18 60/19
60/22 61/5 61/22
70/21 71/3 71/4 82/19I
82/20 82/20 89/21
92/10 94/19 118/22
131/4 160/23 161/20
167/11 169/11 171/1
190/5 193/8
he's [11] 49/8 49/9
49/11 49/17 50/6 50/6
50/6 50/8 60/17 60/21
148/16
head [2] 2/14 109/9
(61) give... -head
H
heading [4] 72/21
102/2 102/8 169/25
headline [1] 37/15
health [2] 75/3 94/25
healthy [3] 125/3
126/23 139/14
hear [8] 1/5 31/3
64/17 85/1 108/6
146/3 183/18 193/5
heard [20] 7/2 20/12
70/19 89/12 118/2
128/9 139/5 141/4
155/12 164/6 167/15
184/24
hearing [5] 69/10
69/19 182/22 185/20
193/23
hearings [2] 118/2
148/10
Heathrow [1] 130/6
heavily [3] 49/13
49/14 134/15
heed [1] 41/4
heightened [1] 75/18
held [8] 8/11 15/25
32/11 51/5 58/24
109/11 130/8 153/15
held/performed [1]
153/15
help [16] 4/1 11/19
13/11 52/12 54/7 77/1
84/13 84/18 95/2 98/1
120/12 126/8 130/23
132/15 158/5 166/2
helpful [16] 8/20
47/16 59/14 59/23
59/24 60/23 65/6
85/20 95/12 100/20
104/23 105/20 137/3
146/8 185/2 192/21
helpfully [1] 150/1
helping [2] 28/12
85/23
Henry [2] 26/6 58/12
her [11] 23/1 23/20
23/20 24/3 24/4 26/11
26/25 46/23 59/13
63/4 179/25
here [25] 20/2 38/21
38/22 55/23 56/9
60/11 60/17 70/9
70/14 71/24 72/8
73/19 74/14 84/7
85/25 88/1 91/23
126/23 133/20 160/9
168/25 173/21 174/22
193/8 193/15
hereby [2] 163/20
164/1
headcount [1] 76/18
20/18 30/5 31/17 43/6
44/1 44/3 57/18 57/18
high [12] 24/1 74/12
97/14 116/13 116/14
160/5
high-level [1] 97/14
higher [2] 55/14
90/13
highest [1] 38/16
highlighted [1] 16/7
highlights [1] 18/18
highly [4] 5/23
him [18] 30/12 30/14
47/18 49/16 50/5
58/13 60/16 64/16
86/22 94/20 95/20
118/21 118/24 169/4
himself [2] 29/19
46/25
hinder [1] 53/16
hindsight [5] 64/12
90/24 100/17 100/19
155/8
hiring [4] 102/17
his [30] 5/23 6/8
23/4 23/15 24/2 24/5
30/7 30/13 30/21
46/25 50/13 57/23
60/12 60/13 82/18
83/12 95/17 115/12
179/16
his/their [1] 129/13
historic [4] 113/10
179/7 180/2 180/14
historical [1] 129/14
history [3] 24/11
52/23 141/15
hm [4] 175/14
hold [2] 2/1 109/14
holder [1] 51/11
holds [2] 51/4 51/12
Hollinrake [2] 110/3
179/16
honest [3] 40/17
48/22 138/8
honours [1] 2/1
hope [7] 96/11
104/16 104/16 104/17)
150/2 168/11 188/21
hopeful [4] 155/22
172/2 172/21 177/22
hopefully [5] 94/6
99/7 114/10 126/17
179/3
hoping [1] 137/13
Horizon [52] 7/19
13/23 71/14 112/3
114/19 115/3 115/20
116/12 116/16 116/16)
117/8 118/21 129/11
118/14 120/21 120/23)
121/24 133/21 150/18)
43/2 43/4 47/10 47/18
22/21 22/21 23/1 23/2
24/6 24/13 26/23 28/2
129/12 129/13 171/18)
148/11 155/8 155/18
157/1 157/11 158/23
158/25 159/7 159/10
159/16 159/18 160/2
162/13 163/19 163/22
164/1 164/8 164/13
165/2 166/21 167/3
167/6 167/10 167/12
168/1 168/12 169/19
170/4 173/10 187/19
188/1 189/12 189/21
191/13 191/19 192/4
Horizon-generated
[1] 191/19
horror [1] 155/12
hour [1] 130/23
hours [1] 4/12
how [71] 4/25 5/4 5/7
5/9 5/18 8/1 9/6 9/24
13/12 18/18 20/3 25/2
38/23 39/6 39/14
43/21 46/22 47/1 50/2
60/9 63/8 68/11 87/5
87/11 91/13 98/1 99/7
102/5 104/20 111/13
113/21 114/9 115/16
116/5 116/25 121/18
124/1 125/23 127/6
130/12 132/2 133/11
134/12 136/1 136/25
140/25 141/18 143/8
144/7 145/12 145/14
154/13 155/3 156/8
156/8 157/4 162/18
173/11 177/12 178/7
178/9 178/12 179/12
180/12 181/6 184/25
185/4 186/15 186/24
190/15 190/21
Howe [1] 185/17
however [6] 4/9
23/24 63/16 75/10
160/6 160/13
HR [2] 2/4 2/7
huge [3] 95/8 103/3
192/7
hugely [5] 2/10 55/2
90/3 105/16 105/20
Human [2] 9/22
118/2
humiliating [1] 23/25
Hutchings [1] 92/15
hypothesis [1] 122/3
I actually [1] 47/19
l agree [1] 136/10
lagreed [1] 130/20
lalso [4] 42/18 48/2
172/19 178/6
lam [18] 7/1 19/18
37/15 38/22 52/12
59/3 59/20 64/19 93/4
156/20 156/22 156/23
93/16 100/17 115/17
126/3 138/23 153/5
166/3 169/3 174/4
land [2] 15/25
143/23
l answer [1] 89/16
l anticipate [1]
121/21
l apologise [1]
183/15
l appreciate [5]
23/14 43/23 52/20
54/1 192/24
lask [3] 1/16 155/3
170/22
l asked [2] 7/10
115/3
l attend [1] 59/19
l attended [1] 45/10
I became [1] 30/1
I believe [10] 14/13
17/2 28/18 65/1 76/14}
87/18 87/20 128/8
135/13 186/5
I best [1] 38/23
I brought [1] 5/24
Ican [19] 1/22 17/3
19/8 43/12 45/22
55/10 63/16 94/7
120/22 122/14 125/8
127/7 138/23 141/15
143/11 158/5 183/6
183/18 184/7
lcan't [11] 43/21
65/19 75/7 75/8 78/8
97/25 115/11 122/11
123/8 146/12 178/14
I certainly [1] 138/10
I consider [1] 52/5
I consulted [1] 98/12
I contacted [1] 47/18
I could [5] 3/15 4/20
7/10 65/19 80/16
I couldn't [2] 67/18
128/7
I decided [1] 61/10
I definitely [1] 12/2
I described [1]
102/22
I detected [1] 34/7
I did [18] 3/2 3/20 4/4
31/4 34/11 61/2 62/1
67/13 100/1 100/4
100/4 110/11 119/12
123/8 134/8 145/6
180/25 180/25
I didn't [9] 5/4 5/16
6/2 30/21 45/5 47/20
66/25 67/3 84/25
I discussed [1] 98/10
Ido [19] 48/23 63/11
64/24 65/6 65/12 78/9)
83/9 90/24 91/5 91/7
108/14 110/21 110/23
113/18 126/21 128/23}
148/21 168/24 171/2
I don't [49] 17/1
25/19 26/2 31/9 42/7
43/10 55/11 57/18
57/19 59/19 60/10
62/6 62/6 65/5 69/21
70/25 75/7 86/5 89/21
90/1 97/17 100/21
101/9 102/4 110/13
111/9 111/19 117/10
125/8 127/4 128/18
138/9 141/20 149/6
149/6 156/5 158/5
164/11 165/9 172/18
173/3 177/21 178/14
182/21 183/13 186/16)
190/17 190/23 192/19)
I doubt [1] 184/8
l enquired [1] 165/21
l established [1]
67/10
l extended [1] 12/23
I feel [3] 25/4 36/8
37/5
I felt [8] 5/20 6/6 6/15
12/17 14/18 27/20
33/20 67/8
I find [1] 177/6
I follow [1] 107/12
I found [4] 105/19
133/21 160/16 185/2
I give [2] 154/25
163/7
I got [2] 47/12 67/12
I guess [2] 20/7 40/6
Ihad [21] 3/22 4/11
4/20 6/5 8/3 30/17
47/10 47/11 47/12
47/25 48/3 61/22 67/6)
80/14 110/25 111/1
111/2 114/25 116/13
130/22 134/9
I happened [1] 45/13
Ihave [18] 14/15
17/23 27/15 33/3 43/2I
60/6 72/9 96/16 98/4
105/5 105/9 121/18
134/9 138/8 141/24
168/2 171/6 191/21
I haven't [14] 17/18
18/17 19/23 24/17
24/19 59/7 105/5
141/9 141/14 147/16
151/25 178/20 188/21
192/23
Ihear [1] 146/3
I held [1] 32/11
I hope [3] 150/2
168/11 188/21
l imagine [2] 110/13
149/16
limplemented [1]
113/6
(62) he:
adcount - I implemented
130/24 177/16
I just [8] 3/13 7/13
83/24 86/24 91/13
174/9 185/21 186/23
I knew [1] 5/21
I know [12] 17/18
93/19 144/9 145/24
146/14 157/21 176/6
181/24
Hed [4] 2/17
left [4] 145/10
Hook [1] 136/13
I may [2] 52/2 193/5
I mean [20] 40/4 47/2
53/11 57/14 61/18
122/7 124/15 128/3
135/22 138/8 140/5
142/8 146/2 151/15
180/20 190/17
I mentioned [1]
81/17
I met [1] 149/20
I might [2] 4/21 89/16
I move [1] 96/24
I must [1] 110/25
Ineed [5] 131/19
131/20 173/20 179/11
192/21
I obviously [2] 70/8
96/4
I offered [1] 84/16
I officially [1] 147/18
I only [1] 79/13
l ought [4] 183/11
I particularly [2]
124/19 139/15
I please [1] 70/18
I possibly [1] 29/17
I probably [1] 68/8
I raised [1] 171/3
lread [1] 60/9
I really [1] 6/15
I recall [2] 33/19
160/2
l received [3] 123/9
147/17 165/21
I recognise [1]
154/12
refer [1] 54/17
I referred [1] 15/16
I refused [1] 127/15
I remember [2] 55/16
62/4
I reported [1] 3/9
l represent [1] 93/22
l reviewed [1] 14/17
Iright [1] 135/9
I joined [11] 5/17
6/21 15/18 19/25 33/3,
35/3 36/9 67/9 124/16)
33/3 33/8 43/13 90/20
78/7 79/6 85/15 111/9
I said [6] 26/15 35/23
47/2 58/23 99/14
136/11
I saw [3] 20/6 45/4
125/14
I say [6] 32/5 64/14
120/18 122/11 191/23)
191/24
I see [4] 10/17 51/3
176/18 182/4
I should [5] 3/21
47/17 67/8 106/2
140/4
I speak [1] 81/10
I spoke [4] 62/5 62/7
99/6 127/22
I sponsored [1]
72/23
I start [1] 93/25
I started [3] 3/22
34/7 101/23
Istep [1] 171/24
I struggled [1]
148/24
I suspect [1] 8/17
I take [3] 57/15 94/1
193/11
I talked [2] 65/4
141/22
I think [274]
I thought [5] 62/22
107/16 120/11 140/4
147/20
I took [4] 98/12 100/2
145/6 147/18
l understand [4] 12/2
99/1 168/22 185/7
l understood [2] 67/2
96/6
luse [1] 88/17
I want [6] 3/3 9/17
22/4 176/2 184/19
187/5
I wanted [1] 96/4
Iwas [53] 3/24 7/8
9/10 10/9 11/17 12/18
12/21 12/23 22/11
22/14 28/1 29/12 30/9
34/15 47/2 47/6 47/7
47/21 47/23 47/24
49/12 57/6 58/13
58/25 62/3 66/5 66/8
66/17 68/5 68/6 95/24
96/1 96/3 98/13 98/14)
110/13 116/20 119/4
119/13 120/9 134/7
142/9 147/22 148/23
149/13 149/14 158/16)
160/16 160/19 162/5
162/6 165/13 170/12
I wasn't [14] 22/8
33/21 45/4 47/15
67/11 70/9 70/24
70/25 71/23 79/13
80/15 90/19 92/16
92/17
I went [1] 147/19
I were [1] 107/7
I will [9] 106/4 127/8
131/16 131/16 152/2
156/5 169/4 186/5
193/18
I won't [6] 31/16
103/25 147/6 166/5
170/25 182/9
I wonder [1] 70/18
I work [4] 57/20
I worked [1] 134/10
I would [36] 5/5 6/14
6/17 7/11 8/2 8/16
8/19 9/3 9/11 10/4
16/16 18/13 19/9 20/2
20/4 20/8 20/25 21/10
21/12 21/15 24/18
28/23 32/2 32/9 33/2
35/6 47/16 60/7 64/5
96/11 104/16 104/17
175/7 182/7 182/10
193/17
I wouldn't [4] 4/18
48/4 48/4 107/9
I wrote [1] 47/18
I'd [37] 10/24 12/10
13/6 27/2 38/7 44/7
46/15 52/2 56/20 67/8
72/18 73/11 92/6 96/8
107/8 107/9 107/17
113/22 114/12 119/23
120/7 120/18 122/17
122/21 123/19 130/21
133/23 139/11 146/25)
148/5 148/15 148/20
148/25 170/22 179/14
182/2 182/19
lil [19] 3/16 22/23
26/1 56/9 56/10 56/13
66/3 88/3 96/21
101/15 146/12 149/18I
149/18 151/12 177/4
182/14 185/14 190/23}
192/14
I'm [113] 1/12 6/2
19/13 20/7 21/1 26/17I
29/4 31/7 37/8 42/8
43/11 43/22 47/19
49/24 50/9 51/15
51/24 56/1 56/2 57/17
67/19 69/7 69/21
72/25 75/8 76/6 78/7
78/7 80/24 82/3 84/7
86/7 87/25 88/1 88/2
88/3 88/20 88/23
88/23 89/5 91/8 91/9
91/14 91/14 91/20
93/4 93/13 94/2 98/6
99/14 99/24 100/16
101/9 101/11 103/17
105/11 106/2 106/3
106/4 107/24 111/19
115/9 116/19 123/9
125/9 125/9 127/8
128/3 128/7 131/3
137/13 146/7 146/13
146/18 146/19 148/12)
148/12 148/12 150/24}
150/24 150/24 155/22}
158/7 158/13 159/23
164/14 168/22 169/22}
172/2 172/18 172/21
173/3 174/3 177/22
182/17 182/22 182/24}
182/24 183/1 183/16
185/25 185/25 185/25}
186/4 186/4 186/10
186/10 187/3 188/2
190/22 192/21 193/4
193/11
I've [50] 9/1 20/1 20/4!
20/23 36/14 37/7
42/25 44/3 50/5 55/19)
56/14 57/17 69/23
71/5 71/18 84/9 87/13,
87/16 92/16 93/23
96/16 96/17 97/1
101/11 105/8 105/15
106/3 111/10 118/24
121/9 125/6 125/11
126/23 133/20 141/10}
151/22 176/11 176/13}
177/14 177/20 178/8
180/24 181/4 181/4
181/5 183/14 186/17
188/22 189/3 193/18
IA [1] 134/19
idea [2] 47/13 178/17
ideal [1] 120/11
ideas [2] 38/3 38/4
identical [1] 176/19
identified [7] 31/22
35/25 75/11 113/2
136/17 136/19 148/16}
identify [9] 188/3
188/12 188/16 188/24}
189/1 189/11 189/20
190/12 192/3
identifying [2] 54/24
188/1
identity [1] 66/9
ie [1] 152/11
if [130] 3/15 3/16
16/5 18/2 19/9 21/6
22/17 22/22 24/8
25/20 25/21 25/25
26/3 26/14 26/25 36/1
37/14 38/7 42/25
46/10 46/13 48/3
48/10 50/10 50/20
50/20 50/21 51/18
52/2 52/9 54/11 54/12,
54/20 55/14 56/8
56/10 56/13 56/20
56/25 57/22 59/9 60/2,
63/10 65/19 65/25
66/24 69/22 71/2 72/2I
72/20 75/10 76/6
77/18 80/2 80/24
81/25 82/10 83/1 86/7
89/16 92/11 93/5 94/4I
97/1 97/6 97/7 97/17
102/3 102/6 102/12
104/3 104/12 106/8
107/7 110/20 111/7
114/15 114/16 114/16)
114/19 115/24 116/5
118/12 119/12 119/12)
119/21 121/7 122/10
123/9 126/24 127/6
128/7 131/17 136/2
136/25 142/11 143/11
147/6 147/10 150/18
151/6 152/12 152/22
153/6 153/19 154/25
155/14 156/11 157/6
158/17 159/4 160/24
163/15 163/24 166/8
168/21 168/23 169/11
172/24 179/19 181/25)
182/9 182/18 183/16
183/23 187/11 187/16
188/6 192/21 193/16
ii [2] 70/1 180/3
[2] 70/3 180/5
ill [1] 94/25
illogical [2] 138/4
139/1
imagine [8] 8/19
24/18 110/13 114/9
135/14 139/12 149/16)
158/5
imbibed [1] 137/24
immediately [5] 62/1
66/25 67/3 125/14
140/10
impact [13] 10/16
11/10 28/5 38/16
72/14 81/4 102/10
105/13 105/13 105/17
105/18 118/2 151/6
impacted [3] 4/15
86/3 101/3
impactful [2] 102/19
184/25
impacting [2] 38/12
168/7
impacts [1] 134/21
impasse [3] 171/22
172/2 172/3
impatient [1] 23/23
implement [9] 114/5
126/18 126/20 127/15)
139/19 139/24 140/1
140/10 184/18
implementation [4]
40/3 114/3 126/13
135/11
implemented [5]
(63) I joined - implemented
implemented... [5]
16/2 113/1 113/6
128/25 134/21
implementing [4]
137/10 137/11 140/8
143/7
implications [1]
76/18
implicit [2] 98/25
99/1
important [43] 10/14
10/19 12/4 12/17 13/9}
15/14 15/20 15/23
16/24 18/23 21/11
21/21 25/1 25/4 25/8
35/13 40/24 41/4
48/20 49/15 49/19
52/23 53/6 54/11
54/12 54/19 55/3
62/23 67/7 68/22
80/22 84/12 96/6
96/13 102/24 104/21
105/17 111/21 118/8
137/7 139/11 181/25
189/9
imposed [1] 23/19
impossible [1] 64/12
impressed [1] 120/9
impression [9] 4/25
5/18 5/24 6/1 6/2 33/9
116/20 123/20 169/17)
improve [8] 16/13
17/8 18/5 23/15 24/22
44/5 59/4 63/19
improved [4] 23/7
23/11 144/12 149/9
improvements [2]
38/5 168/10
improving [6] 16/12
40/19 40/20 100/23
100/24 180/4
inappropriate [1]
93/7
incapable [1] 166/23
incentives [1] 152/11
incidents [1] 168/7
include [3] 159/4
180/1 186/20
included [2] 148/3
183/25
includes [1] 153/24
including [19] 2/14
7/25 24/5 25/3 27/5
27/23 44/11 59/11
63/21 83/15 101/24
102/9 102/18 105/4
150/12 157/10 167/8
168/6 180/6
inclusion [4] 27/4
97/13 100/9 163/21
inclusive [1] 99/10
incoming [1] 135/15
incorporated [2]
104/1 104/12
incorporates [1]
185/9
incorrect' [1] 26/24
increase [4] 11/5
75/16 75/20 75/25
increased [1] 11/9
increasing [2] 23/12
38/17
increasingly [1]
23/17
incredibly [2] 105/19
177/1
incremental [2]
146/1 146/4
incumbent [3] 11/16
20/1 84/4
indeed [1] 188/14
independence [2]
50/14 75/12
independent [10]
74/2 77/22 127/8
127/9 127/16 141/11
141/13 166/24 167/19)
170/21
independently [1]
174/10
indirectly [1] 169/18
individual [12] 4/18
4/22 25/14 32/11
32/15 33/10 33/11
51/12 74/11 103/6
142/5 142/6
individually [1] 33/19
individuals [19]
25/14 32/18 33/8
34/16 34/19 48/21
54/25 55/2 61/8 84/23)
92/4 92/19 93/4 93/6
100/15 104/24 120/20)
130/4 143/5
induction [10] 3/3
3/5 3/14 13/19 13/20
13/21 115/1 134/8
134/9 148/23
industry [1] 109/4
ineffective [3] 83/15
86/1 86/11
inferences [1] 60/12
information [32] 7/9
9/9 37/3 37/9 43/4
63/16 63/19 95/16
122/24 123/6 125/13
149/11 149/15 150/14)
150/15 150/19 152/6
154/19 165/23 166/25)
173/7 174/11 174/20
175/11 175/16 176/25)
177/4 178/25 179/8
181/18 183/2 189/3
informed [2] 94/17
182/8
infosec [1] 151/2
infrastructure [2]
65/3 163/13
inherent [1] 137/23
inhouse [11] 101/19
155/11 155/13 156/25
159/11 159/17 160/2
162/22 163/1 163/4
165/4
initial [5] 5/18 6/1
29/22 171/17 175/16
initially [8] 5/4 5/20
6/3 7/8 22/8 77/23
148/21 149/12
initiate [2] 6/14 69/14
ed [1] 84/3
jatives [1] 186/12
injected [1] 130/1
innocent [1] 167/7
input [4] 141/12
184/3 184/6 184/7
Inquiry [44] 7/19 12/5]
14/22 15/2 17/24 31/3
42/22 43/6 44/12 45/5
69/7 74/16 77/9 77/16
87/15 91/20 96/17
101/2 113/10 118/3
120/13 120/23 121/6
121/7 122/1 123/3
123/7 129/19 131/8
137/6 138/5 144/10
146/9 148/10 164/6
167/16 171/4 172/18
181/19 181/22 182/11
183/2 186/18 191/4
Inquiry's [6] 1/25
69/10 69/19 92/9
108/25 148/9
insight [2] 103/16
149/23
insightful [2] 105/16
105/20
insofar [3] 48/21
65/18 143/21
insource [1] 163/24
insource/reprocure
[1] 163/24
insourcing [1] 162/4
Inspector [1] 177/3
instances [1] 63/8
instigated [4] 35/1
35/8 49/20 49/22
institutional [1] 28/8
instruct [1] 185/17
instructed [1] 120/3
instructing [1] 120/4
instructions [2]
71/13 71/21
instrumental [1]
49/11
Integrated [1] 135/7
integrity [7] 5/22
47/23 70/1 75/12
96/13 112/1 169/3
intend [1] 171/2
intended [1] 90/2
intending [3] 66/17
98/18 101/14
intense [1] 23/16
intensifying [2]
180/1 180/13
intensively [1] 23/9
intent [5] 42/9 43/12
43/18 65/8 100/1
intention [7] 64/8
100/18 102/21 164/12)
164/12 173/15 192/1
intentional [1] 63/13
intentionally [1]
66/13
interact [1] 32/12
interactions [1]
124/4
interest [5] 46/12
49/1 77/9 151/13
181/19
interested [1] 178/6
interesting [1] 144/9
interfaces [1] 163/8
interim [11] 2/22
27/6 28/16 51/9
109/22 111/14 119/5
126/18 129/25 179/23}
192/10
internal [9] 13/1 13/9
27/9 40/12 40/16
45/16 81/4 81/4 91/25
internally [3] 91/6
132/15 155/4
interpreted [1]
166/15
intervene [1] 138/18
intervening [1]
157/14
interview [4] 94/11
95/3 95/14 111/1
interviewed [1] 47/24I
interviewees [1]
123/15
interviewing [1] 54/8
interviews [8] 64/9
95/22 110/22 122/22
122/23 123/11 123/12)
123/24
intimidation [1]
28/15
into [56] 4/4 4/5 7/14
22/3 25/22 27/20
29/15 29/19 29/19
30/4 30/7 30/12 43/12,
46/5 54/14 54/16 58/1
58/17 58/20 62/11
63/6 64/15 65/24 67/2
67/20 69/18 73/12
83/7 86/16 87/17
89/14 89/25 90/3
91/22 92/4 103/16
104/1 104/9 104/13
122/12 125/15 130/1
130/3 138/20 147/22
149/23 153/19 154/11
157/4 164/10 165/24
175/11 178/20 187/20)
189/5 189/5
intrinsically [1] 10/18
introduction [2] 4/5
134/11
intuitively [2] 34/6
34/7
invaluable [1] 48/23
inverted [1] 87/2
investigate [6] 26/16
147/10 150/8 174/20
175/18 191/22
investigated [8] 15/2
58/23 90/6 92/14
147/15 147/25 152/23)
167/17
investigation [47]
21/23 22/10 22/12
22/15 29/8 29/15
29/16 29/19 29/23
30/4 30/7 30/12 30/14I
30/16 58/1 58/22
60/19 62/10 63/1
63/11 64/3 64/8 64/13
64/15 64/17 65/17
66/14 83/11 90/12
90/16 90/23 91/25
147/23 148/1 150/4
150/23 152/14 154/11
165/24 167/23 168/11
169/16 169/20 170/3
174/17 175/7 175/18
investigations [17]
14/24 14/25 28/3
29/11 68/13 89/20
91/13 91/22 92/1 93/1
93/12 101/3 148/17
151/11 151/19 153/4
169/25
investigator [1]
64/16
investigators [1]
176/20
investigatory [3]
58/14 68/2 92/4
Investments [1]
111/3
involve [2] 11/14
22/113
involved [14] 17/11
20/9 27/8 58/10 74/15}
77/15 78/7 91/23
120/4 126/5 129/1
131/14 157/5 189/16
involvement [3]
28/24 77/9 165/11
involves [4] 13/24
113/9 139/20 165/25
involving [1] 132/11
irrespective [2]
98/24 131/22
(64) implemented... - irrespective
irritable [1] 23/23
is [548]
Ismail [4] 92/9 161/1
161/5 161/17
isn't [22] 21/1 26/15
33/8 57/15 58/4 58/7
65/7 71/20 71/22
82/10 91/7 99/14
99/18 104/16 129/9
175/2 182/10 182/18
183/16 191/18 192/7
193/8
issue [28] 13/19 22/6
22/10 23/16 36/10
36/11 38/21 61/1
62/11 65/16 65/18
70/14 78/24 82/25
113/11 113/12 115/22)
118/25 126/11 134/21
135/6 140/22 154/23
156/20 156/24 181/2
191/13 192/10
issues [54] 4/1 8/16
14/23 14/23 16/19
19/14 20/6 31/22 37/2)
41/13 48/22 49/9
49/18 51/24 53/22
63/7 64/21 65/2 65/9
67/1 74/15 77/16
83/14 83/20 84/2
84/23 85/5 86/2
114/21 115/19 116/21
117/24 118/1 118/4
118/5 118/7 118/9
118/18 129/4 129/15
135/11 136/3 136/6
137/18 138/17 141/18
141/20 153/8 156/16
164/6 173/12 173/24
187/21 190/18
it [452]
it'll [6] 121/8 145/3
148/14 156/9 156/11
156/13
it's [117] 3/18 10/24
15/23 16/15 17/12
18/16 20/21 21/10
21/11 21/19 24/25
25/3 25/8 25/14 26/4
32/15 33/21 36/8 39/6
39/12 40/24 40/24
41/4 44/9 46/16 47/2
48/14 48/20 49/15
52/10 53/6 55/11
55/14 55/16 55/20
56/10 57/16 58/7
68/22 69/17 71/23
76/15 79/11 82/6 87/2
87/7 88/1 88/25 90/3
90/4 90/11 94/1 97/2
97/3 98/25 99/1 99/13
102/3 102/24 103/6
104/21 112/24 113/4
113/5 113/12 113/18
117/1 117/2 117/15
119/23 119/24 121/3
122/12 125/8 126/11
128/17 129/5 129/5
134/4 138/22 139/14
140/5 142/8 143/16
147/2 148/6 149/13
149/15 153/17 156/8
157/3 158/22 162/14
175/5 175/6 175/15
176/8 177/25 179/1
179/16 182/23 187/9
its [9] 13/3 18/5
31/20 116/13 127/5
137/6 140/7 140/17
168/5
itself [4] 3/12 9/7
125/10 162/13
ITV [4] 75/25
J
Jacobs [9] 64/16
70/20 160/4 181/10
181/14 183/9 183/10
183/15 194/16
Jane [1] 29/15
January [10] 23/2
23/12 26/6 44/20 55/7
56/18 62/15 70/17
71/25 116/1
Japan [1] 158/6
Jo [1] 92/14
job [13] 9/11 17/12
19/3 21/19 32/18
35/22 38/19 39/10
47/25 50/19 52/24
54/25 85/16
jobs [5] 16/23 35/16
39/25 54/18 98/24
John [2] 68/12 130/5
join [6] 14/5 113/8
119/12 119/12 130/20)
132/6
joined [17] 5/17 5/19
6/21 9/7 14/11 14/21
15/18 19/25 33/3 35/3
36/9 67/9 109/9
123/14 124/16 130/24)
177/16
joining [10] 4/9 7/8
14/1 14/4 14/12 35/6
96/5 112/8 123/21
124/14
judgment [3] 135/6
135/12 187/21
judgments [4] 14/8
69/13 69/17 134/22
130/17 130/19 133/19)
145/15 145/15 146/13)
164/11 165/22 172/13)
172/16 173/20 174/13)
189/10 189/20 193/12,
Julian [1] 92/15
July [2] 101/48
17118
June [5] 119/22
184/22
junior [6] 25/6 25/10
25/12 38/11 38/13
38/16
just [98] 2/8 3/13
3/17 4/19 4/22 5/17
6/13 6/16 6/17 7/13
7/15 7/21 10/24 13/8
13/25 16/13 22/23
26/1 27/11 27/19 31/9
32/11 33/8 37/15
37/21 38/22 46/14
52/2 55/25 56/9 56/20)
56/22 57/9 57/16
59/18 65/19 66/3
72/18 72/25 73/1 79/6
80/12 83/24 86/24
89/25 90/4 91/13
95/10 98/19 102/1
102/12 103/23 105/12
106/12 107/14 112/12
113/9 115/7 117/4
118/12 118/15 121/9
122/5 123/19 125/8
127/20 127/22 127/24
135/16 137/17 139/18}
143/11 146/4 146/7
147/7 148/15 149/18
156/2 157/21 160/16
160/19 161/12 163/1
163/1 163/3 169/22
170/22 174/9 177/3
177/25 181/13 182/15}
183/13 185/21 186/17]
186/23 187/8 192/21
justice [5] 184/20
185/9 185/18 186/8
187/22
K
KAREN [8] 1/7 1/10
46/21 60/23 144/14
146/15 178/22 194/2
keen [3] 7/8 12/23
98/13
keep [6] 85/19 87/16
154/19 159/23 163/11
187/18
keeping [3] 24/25
36/17 48/14
kept [3] 46/22 91/14
181/22
key [13] 28/9 38/1
52/11 71/6 114/3
135/17 136/2 137/1
137/2 137/18 140/14
152/17 153/14
keys [1] 167/9
kick [2] 90/3 178/1
148/14 151/15 158/15}
kicked [1] 89/24
kind [11] 34/19 62/25
67/20 71/19 84/10
137/16 140/3 178/21
kinds [3] 11/25 20/11
118/17
King's [1] 185/19
knew [2] 5/21 29/23
knock [1] 11/10
knock-on [1] 11/10
know [101] 5/10 5/14
12/13 17/18 18/24
33/3 33/8 43/13 45/5
47/20 48/2 49/20
49/22 56/13 56/16
60/8 60/10 60/17
60/18 69/19 69/21
73/9 75/5 75/7 78/9
87/15 90/20 91/7
91/13 93/19 102/4
107/14 110/9 110/12
110/13 110/20 111/7
1114/9 111/11 111/23
116/16 117/10 118/6
120/21 125/23 126/15}
127/13 128/5 128/6
128/15 128/18 128/23}
129/5 131/13 131/17
137/5 141/12 142/12
143/2 144/9 144/12
144/24 145/24 146/1
146/9 146/14 149/6
149/6 154/19 155/11
155/12 155/18 156/5
156/5 156/23 157/21
158/4 163/8 163/13
165/9 172/18 173/3
173/5 173/21 173/22
173/24 176/6 178/14
179/2 179/3 179/12
181/24 182/17 183/17,
186/16 189/13 190/17I
190/23 191/4 191/10
193/17
knowing [3] 96/12
96/12 144/24
knowledge [16] 1/21
57/19 64/11 64/24
77/11 77/12 81/19
81/21 82/8 82/11
85/14 100/8 103/14
108/21 142/3 153/25
known [3] 46/21
96/11 150/16
KS [1] 80/4
L
lack [29] 7/21 7/22
32/2 33/4 36/1 36/10
40/12 53/4 53/4 63/5
64/25 83/19 86/1
102/23 119/9 125/1
125/2 125/3 125/6
112/17 131/22 135/19}
128/14 136/4 136/11
136/12 139/8 139/8
140/16 143/20 144/6
152/16
lacking [1] 112/17
laid [1] 30/1
lands [1] 125/18
landscape [1] 124/7
large [5] 2/5 6/11
93/23 120/14 124/18
largely [1] 32/15
larger [1] 103/7
last [14] 77/5 106/12
115/20 119/16 119/17)
138/5 149/23 152/7
179/24 191/4 191/13
Lastly [1] 104/24
late [2] 75/16 151/25
later [2] 47/21 168/12)
latter [1] 28/3
launched [1] 52/1
law [1] 170/8
lawyer [1] 176/19
lawyer's [1] 174/5
lawyers [1] 52/17
layers [1] 143/14
lead [2] 10/5 92/13
leader [1] 46/1
leaders [5] 32/24
125/1 125/3 126/6
126/14
leadership [29] 7/21
18/1 21/12 25/17
31/25 34/10 36/15
37/19 37/22 38/1
40/14 41/1 47/14
83/21 85/22 95/10
96/3 96/7 99/5 123/23
124/2 126/7 126/15
126/16 129/9 132/1
133/10 138/3 142/16
leading [2] 21/8 55/2
leads [1] 157/4
learned [2] 124/24
130/11
learning [1] 147/20
least [9] 33/10 89/5
89/6 89/8 116/3 141/1
146/9 184/11 192/4
leave [1] 23/17
leavers [1] 12/16
led [6] 2/17 41/10
41/19 76/15 77/10
128/22
left [4] 11/12 79/22
145/10 147/12
legal [4] 14/23 14/25
106/18 173/7
legislation [1] 104/8
lens [2] 134/25
137/25
less [7] 4/21 6/16
9/15 13/8 47/22
105/17 182/22
(65) irritable - less
L
lessons [2] 124/23
138/4
let [7] 31/19 56/13
81/4 88/2 127/24
176/14 183/17
Let's [2] 20/11
139/16
letter [23] 44/7 44/8
46/9 48/8 55/6 55/8
92/10 92/11 147/1
147/2 147/4 147/17
166/7 166/9 167/5
170/25 171/8 172/15
190/2
letting [1] 54/20
level [38] 4/11 17/10
38/10 45/23 83/2
85/24 97/14 115/2
126/4 127/20 129/18
132/6 132/24 133/10
133/17 133/17 133/21
143/20 150/16 160/5
179/12
levels [5] 38/25
117/9 124/8 144/3
180/5
Lewis [1] 130/5
life [5] 4/15 41/25
49/9 109/4 109/4
light [3] 15/1 73/6
116/10
lights' [1] 131/9
like [42] 2/9 5/20
10/24 17/8 27/2 38/7
40/6 44/7 46/15 52/2
52/17 54/3 56/20
64/14 65/21 72/18
92/6 99/9 114/12
118/14 119/23 121/25)
122/10 122/17 122/21
123/10 123/19 132/21
133/23 146/25 148/5
148/15 148/20 154/17)
170/22 177/1 179/14
182/2 182/7 182/10
182/19 185/4
likely [9] 38/19 55/13
83/14 143/9 164/8
164/11 181/18 188/13}
188/24
limited [4] 18/4 18/7
74/10 187/15
limits [1] 9/18
line [4] 11/18 64/6
138/3 170/7
Lesson [1] 137/23
55/11 57/6 58/16 92/8
18/15 19/6 21/14 25/6)
25/7 25/10 25/15 38/9
116/14 116/14 121/25)
133/21 136/17 137/23)
138/25 139/12 143/13}
lines [4] 39/15
110/22 135/6 135/8
linked [1] 152/10
Lisa [4] 123/16
list [1] 14/3
186/17
listen [1] 43/15
listened [2] 125/11
125/22
listening [1] 44/4
literally [1] 52/20
live [1] 49/10
lives [1] 59/6
local [3] 186/11
186/13 186/15
Locum [1] 154/7
logging [1] 189/24
logical [1] 179/12
London [4] 4/13 6/9
165/24 173/25
long [16] 63/9 67/9
85/19 87/7 89/14
89/25 90/3 111/13
113/21 114/9 124/17
177/25
long-term [1] 124/17
longer [2] 76/15
175/3
longevity [1] 103/3
longstanding [1]
94/23
look [38] 3/16 10/25
18/2 26/10 27/2 38/7
40/10 50/21 54/2
55/25 57/22 65/24
69/18 72/2 82/24 83/1
97/7 97/10 103/25
104/3 104/8 116/14
116/15 117/3 117/18
147/9 161/15 163/5
178/23 178/25 179/14)
191/23
looked [5] 5/20 58/17
58/20 67/2 148/10
looking [32] 3/3 21/6
25/21 26/17 28/8
35/25 40/7 40/8 43/24
54/23 60/1 60/9 69/5
72/11 74/14 74/16
85/5 85/25 86/16
114/12 117/4 117/22
131/23 133/13 143/24)
146/7 153/14 156/6
158/12 162/18 163/5
189/21
looks [2] 158/11
189/6
Lord [2] 55/6 187/21
Lorna [2] 20/16
listed [3] 92/12 134/3
little [2] 154/25 162/6
80/13 81/3 82/7 85/15
119/14 119/15 126/17,
133/23 134/13 136/13)
22/15
lose [1] 81/19
losses [1] 170/16
lot [24] 3/13 7/3 8/23
11/20 11/23 12/16
12/16 14/22 18/10
20/18 38/22 52/17
61/6 86/22 113/9
127/25 135/14 141/5
178/8 180/25 192/13
lots [7] 89/1 111/4
111/4 111/4 143/14
184/6 184/6
Lottery [3] 110/18
111/23 120/8
low [4] 116/19
lower [1] 76/25
made [33] 4/12 6/6
13/21 21/24 23/6
51/7 60/12 60/14
62/16 71/19 80/19
127/13 127/19 128/21
128/22 142/11 146/1
152/21 155/6 156/21
176/4 181/5
made’ [1] 44/21
main [3] 156/16
156/20 156/24
mainly [1] 25/16
intain [1] 187/18
ining [1]
159/16
major [1] 134/22
majority [4] 71/11
79/25 80/6 147/24
make [38] 7/16 17/3
25/6 25/18 25/19
29/17 33/23 36/7 39/1
40/15 40/18 42/3 47/9
52/25 54/9 64/13 68/5
77/23 78/18 86/12
96/18 98/13 98/15
99/7 99/21 117/19
138/1 138/11 141/11
141/13 142/12 143/25]
159/7 163/6 173/6
173/22 182/24 189/17
make-up [2] 77/23
78/18
making [25] 7/14
12/21 16/17 16/18
16/19 20/9 35/13
41/13 42/11 60/17
60/21 74/4 79/19
89/18 94/21 99/1
loss [2] 85/15 115/21
149/14 149/14 173/21
Lynette [1] 92/15
mad [1] 107/8
24/12 28/1 28/6 36/19
89/21 90/25 91/3 91/6
157/17 167/24 168/25)
107/13 118/8 125/16
143/19 144/2 144/3
malicious [1] 65/8
manage [2] 4/14
163/4
managed [4] 8/1
24/14 25/3 46/10
management [16]
2/5 2/15 2/16 5/12
11/18 34/3 38/6 47/3
57/2 59/6 101/20
136/5 136/12 138/19
144/7 180/7
Manager [1] 150/1
manages [1] 50/2
managing [3] 7/12
9/21 10/2
mandatory [1] 27/7
manifest [2] 32/21
125/10
manual [2] 134/15
178/15
manually [1] 178/24
79/14 80/18 87/5
87/11 95/2 111/2
111/2 113/14 113/15
119/8 132/20 137/25
138/1 138/2 138/10
146/2 162/5 189/15
mapping [1] 153/14
March [16] 44/14
72/17 75/24 80/25
83/3 83/4 84/20 85/6
109/23 123/13 157/4
157/12 158/11 158/13
163/20 172/8
Marianne [1] 21/23
mark [2] 70/22 186/7
20/22 133/9
markets [1] 112/2
Marriott [10] 62/11
62/19 72/23 73/2 73/3
74/24 76/17 78/21
78/25 79/22
Marsh [1] 51/8
Marshall [1] 51/6
Martin [3] 33/14 51/6
62/4
Mason [1] 150/6
mass [1] 73/18
material [2] 14/3
14/19
materialised [3] 75/2
75/6 78/23
materials [1] 125/10
Matrix [1] 112/13
matter [27] 16/6
19/16 19/18 19/20
20/15 32/6 33/16 36/2
46/18 48/7 54/23
150/16 151/23 172/17}
many [23] 79/2 79/10
138/12 139/24 143/16)
market [4] 13/15 20/4I
55/25 57/25 69/18
69/23 81/17 82/19
88/24 93/12 139/3
139/7 139/8 139/13
154/5 186/21 186/22
192/7
mattering [1] 48/22
matters [18] 15/1
20/11 22/5 23/11
58/23 67/7 68/2 68/21
68/23 86/16 95/22
96/21 113/10 113/14
113/16 167/6 167/17
171/3
maximum [1] 160/22
may [39] 15/7 21/17
23/19 23/23 35/10
36/21 42/8 42/22 52/2I
55/24 65/10 86/2 89/8
90/24 93/20 101/6
104/23 109/24 109/25)
111/15 111/15 134/1
134/8 134/8 134/11
141/9 150/13 150/20
165/4 167/5 170/17
175/19 182/16 185/15}
189/11 189/12 190/2
190/5 193/5
maybe [7] 25/5 33/24
39/5 54/18 65/6
100/20 182/8
MBS [1] 47/12
McColl's [3] 2/20
47/6 47/8
McEwan [13] 1/6 1/7
1/10 46/21 93/22 94/2)
97/5 99/22 101/16
105/12 105/23 184/24I
194/2
me [61] 4/3 4/18 5/24
6/7 15/16 29/10 29/10
29/13 29/16 30/3
30/15 33/19 34/13
47/15 47/20 50/10
55/10 58/12 68/5
68/22 76/6 80/24
85/13 88/2 89/2 89/17
94/17 94/19 96/12
96/19 98/16 105/17
105/20 105/22 107/14)
107/16 107/24 115/11
119/6 119/12 127/24
133/19 134/12 135/23}
145/11 145/13 147/21
149/4 149/15 149/16
174/10 177/4 179/13
182/15 183/12 183/17
183/17 183/17 185/17)
189/2 190/25
mean [38] 5/2 6/12
7/18 8/1 12/25 16/14
30/19 40/4 47/2 53/11
57/14 61/18 64/21
66/22 68/16 68/17
(66) Lesson - mean
85/15 103/11 111/9
122/7 124/15 127/19
128/3 135/22 138/8
140/5 142/8 146/2
187/24 190/17
meaningful [1]
167/23
means [11] 52/19
52/21 53/20 54/20
83/16 98/21 98/24
106/25 119/3 138/12
142/22
meant [9] 4/2 73/9
75/5 75/19 98/2
100/14 161/24 162/4
162/7
measurable [1]
15/24
measure [1] 36/12
measures [1] 186/21
mechanism [2]
181/21 187/25
media [3] 12/14
12/19 70/1
mediation [1] 137/8
meet [3] 6/15 6/16
43/15
meeting [38] 26/6
26/8 41/19 42/22
42/23 43/2 43/11
43/22 44/20 45/10
45/13 45/20 59/21
72/17 79/22 80/23
81/6 81/7 81/7 81/24
96/25 119/22 134/3
135/16 135/18 157/3
157/5 158/13 158/15
158/16 158/18 158/21
159/15 160/1 171/18
179/17 191/5 191/8
meetings [23] 41/24
42/25 43/1 43/8 43/13
49/12 59/16 59/20
99/4 104/25 105/3
105/6 105/7 105/8
105/9 105/10 105/14
105/15 111/1 111/2
111/4 184/25 185/1
member [7] 19/18
27/23 47/8 57/14 58/2
59/18 133/3
members [20] 7/6
19/7 34/2 34/12 34/13}
44/11 57/2 57/23
61/13 65/13 72/12
85/22 88/14 112/9
112/10 112/11 115/10}
132/13 133/22 141/12)
membership [2]
mean... [22] 69/15
78/7 79/6 80/19 82/15)
151/15 178/17 180/20)
59/11 59/23
memorial [1] 186/7
memory [4] 5/13 9/6
42/7 62/3
mental [1] 75/3
mentality [1] 128/9
mention [6] 43/5
97/24 99/18 99/22
100/9 102/18
mentioned [10]
57/24 58/12 78/2
81/17 103/15 119/1
167/17 168/2 168/10
189/12
mentioning [2] 99/24
100/13
message [1] 23/1
messages [4] 22/20
23/22 129/21 132/14
met [6] 42/5 149/20
165/23 171/15 173/25)
184/22
mid [2] 56/18 164/20
mid-afternoon [1]
164/20
mid-January [1]
56/18
middle [2] 62/15
80/25
might [27] 4/21 12/4
17/5 21/3 25/22 39/9
41/13 49/18 51/16
55/25 64/21 69/20
72/12 78/13 82/5
82/15 89/16 89/17
127/13 128/2 130/18
141/15 142/6 158/5
163/11 163/12 164/19)
migrate [1] 164/1
million [1] 149/2
mind [9] 61/16 77/13
82/22 82/23 85/3
91/22 129/3 146/10
174/21
mindset [2] 83/20
137/21
Minister [6] 110/3
110/9 179/15 180/22
180/24 181/4
minute [2] 56/6 83/24
minuted [4] 65/17
66/1 66/9 66/13
minutes [3] 51/18
56/10 72/17
Mirroring [1] 152/15
mis [1] 167/9
mis-keys [1] 167/9
miscarriage [1]
186/8
misconduct [1]
83/10
misleading [1]
150/21
missing [2] 88/21
113/5
mistakes [1] 71/19
mitigate [2] 77/1
85/15
mitigation [1] 136/22
mixture [1] 81/12
Mm [11] 109/16
123/22 148/19 151/9
151/16 153/2 166/12
175/14 179/18 187/23
190/14
Mm-hm [1] 175/14
model [5] 65/3
130/18 143/2 143/7
185/12
module [1] 14/6
moment [19] 25/20
40/4 51/16 55/24
56/14 65/20 105/22
126/19 133/2 133/4
136/24 139/22 144/4
145/24 148/15 156/21
174/4 177/2 178/19
money [4] 116/9
128/11 128/20 191/16
monies [1] 154/8
monitor [2] 53/22
188/4
monitored [1] 53/24
monitoring [2] 82/16
187/25
month [4] 12/9 116/2
116/3 146/13
months [19] 23/9
34/12 40/9 81/21
111/15 114/10 114/11
115/20 116/4 119/16
126/23 128/20 131/5
133/20 152/12 156/7
159/13 171/10 191/14
months’ [1] 27/18
more [62] 3/22 4/10
9/13 9/16 13/17 13/18
14/18 15/13 18/23
20/22 25/6 25/10
25/11 29/11 29/20
36/15 38/11 39/15
40/17 41/18 42/4
42/19 53/9 54/11
54/22 55/1 59/3 59/5
68/8 71/21 73/22
73/23 84/18 87/24
88/20 89/2 89/8
105/17 107/13 113/9
113/22 114/20 119/18
126/4 135/19 137/17
143/9 143/13 148/1
151/22 156/14 165/3
173/10 173/20 178/10
178/23 179/3 179/3
179/9 182/22 189/16
192/22
morning [11] 1/3 1/5
16/7 16/11 51/16
107/24 139/5 144/14
178/7 178/22 193/21
Morrisons [1] 2/23
most [17] 2/25 8/2
28/8 35/14 40/17
41/21 48/22 61/18
62/19 70/11 100/3
111/21 116/21 125/24}
138/4 178/5 191/16
motivation [1] 30/17
move [20] 4/3 8/23
19/13 31/7 51/15
51/24 68/1 69/5 81/8
82/9 96/24 137/18
139/16 148/5 164/13
172/24 173/17 177/11
177/22 188/6
moved [6] 2/19 2/22
67/16 67/21 136/16
176/11
movement [1] 78/4
mover [1] 66/18
moving [15] 15/10
24/14 48/9 53/10
85/13 85/18 89/11
92/7 103/23 118/25
132/17 136/15 136/21
177/8 187/5
Mr [130] 1/4 1/8 5/9
5/25 6/1 6/6 20/12
22/19 22/25 23/4 23/8
23/8 23/10 23/16
23/22 24/1 24/4 24/5
24/13 26/4 26/20 28/1
29/2 29/7 29/19 29/23
30/2 30/12 30/13
30/18 30/20 31/2 31/3
44/19 46/10 49/25
55/6 55/12 57/1 57/10)
57/23 57/24 58/3 58/9)
60/3 60/25 64/16
70/20 71/2 73/2 79/22
83/6 89/13 89/14
89/18 89/21 92/9
92/14 92/20 93/19
93/21 94/12 94/15
95/3 95/16 95/20
95/20 96/11 96/20
97/22 107/15 107/15
107/21 108/6 108/9
108/12 118/20 118/23}
124/21 131/13 133/16}
133/16 147/9 147/11
147/12 147/16 147/16}
148/14 149/19 153/10)
159/3 159/12 160/4
160/11 161/1 1641/5
161/14 161/17 161/22}
165/1 165/10 166/8
166/9 166/14 166/19
169/9 169/10 170/10
170/23 179/25 181/10}
181/14 181/15 183/9
183/10 183/15 185/19)
186/21 190/1 190/4
190/5 191/1 192/7
193/3 193/8 193/19
194/4 194/6 194/12
194/16
Mr Bartlett [3]
148/14 149/19 166/14)
Mr Bartlett's [1]
166/9
Mr Blake [9] 1/4 1/8
97/22 107/21 108/9
190/1 191/1 194/4
194/12
Mr Blake's [1] 107/15
Mr Brander [2] 92/14
92/20
Mr Brocklehurst [1]
153/10
Mr Cameron [6]
94/12 95/16 95/20
124/21 133/16 147/16)
Mr Chapman [1]
193/8
Mr Eldridge [2] 49/25]
71/2
Mr Foat [4] 58/9 60/3
60/25 89/14
Mr Ismail [4] 92/9
161/1 161/5 161/17
Mr Jacobs [7] 64/16
70/20 160/4 181/10
181/14 183/9 183/15
Mr Oldnall [3] 159/3
159/12 160/11
Mr Patterson [4]
166/8 166/19 170/23
190/4
Mr Railton [12] 29/2
108/6 108/12 147/9
161/22 165/1 179/25
181/15 186/21 192/7
193/3 193/19
Mr Read [23] 5/9
20/12 22/19 22/25
23/4 23/8 23/10 24/1
24/4 29/19 29/23
46/10 55/6 55/12
94/15 95/3 95/20
96/11 96/20 131/13
133/16 165/10 190/5
Mr Read's [3] 23/16
23/22 24/13
Mr Recaldin [3] 73/2
79/22 83/6
Mr Roberts [3] 57/23
57/24 58/3
Mr Staunton [18]
5/25 6/1 6/6 23/8 24/5I
26/4 28/1 29/7 30/2
30/12 30/13 30/18
30/20 89/13 89/18
89/21 118/23 147/16
Mr Staunton's [4]
26/20 31/2 31/3
(67
) mean... - Mr Staunton’s
118/20
Mr Stein [4] 93/19
93/21 185/19 194/6
Mr Stein's [1] 107/15
Mr Taylor [2] 57/1
57/10
Mr Woodley [4]
161/14 169/9 169/10
170/10
Ms [30] 1/6 21/25
22/1 22/20 22/24
26/18 31/11 73/2
74/24 78/21 78/25
99/22 100/15 101/16
191/4
Ms Burton's [1]
191/4
Ms Davies [8] 21/25
24/2 24/7 31/11
Ms Davies' [2] 23/9
23/14
Ms Marriott [5] 73/2
74/24 78/21 78/25
79/22
Ms McEwan [9] 1/6
93/22 94/2 97/5 99/22
101/16 105/12 105/23
184/24
Ms Tutin [2] 22/24
26/18
Ms Williams [1]
23/21
Ms Wolfenden [1]
100/15
much [28] 1/11 1/23
7/8 12/25 13/7 17/11
18/18 25/5 48/7 52/18
58/15 85/11 107/13
107/23 108/12 113/22)
113/23 131/7 133/13
135/24 138/22 140/6
144/5 155/22 156/8
174/4 179/9 193/19
multiple [1] 150/5
must [4] 23/15
110/25 156/25 179/6
mutual [1] 47/14
my [133] 2/9 2/10 4/2
4/10 4/11 4/15 4/22
4/23 7/12 8/19 9/11
10/12 10/12 10/20
10/20 12/10 13/5
14/12 15/3 15/25 17/2
17/23 19/8 24/25
27/13 28/24 30/16
31/1 31/6 31/17 32/5
Mr Staunton's... [1]
22/25 23/8 23/9 23/14,
23/19 23/21 24/2 24/7
79/22 93/22 94/2 97/5)
105/12 105/23 184/24)
22/1 22/20 23/8 23/19
33/21 34/12 34/13
39/2 40/2 45/2 47/22
48/14 55/20 57/17
64/24 66/8 66/22
68/10 69/13 71/18
80/11 82/22 87/8
87/25 90/2 90/10
90/20 91/7 93/18
93/22 94/11 95/13
96/4 96/13 96/18
100/3 100/8 102/3
103/14 105/8 105/12
105/21 106/24 107/3
112/4 114/21 115/1
117/23 119/4 119/10
120/24 122/3 128/3
130/4 130/23 130/23
131/20 134/7 134/8
134/11 142/7 148/23
149/7 151/13 154/25
155/16 157/25 158/3
176/1 176/8 177/15
177/16 178/2 178/10
179/10 180/17 181/5
181/9 183/6 183/16
187/24 189/2
myopic [1] 137/25
83/24 155/3
naive [1] 106/24
name [8] 1/9 42/5
108/10 108/11
named [5] 10/25 22/1
22/2 61/9 62/17
names [3] 115/9
115/11 131/22
narrowed [1] 35/10
National [4] 110/18
111/23 120/8 183/21
Naturally [1] 68/2
nature [7] 23/25
89/19 102/25 116/13
129/14 154/18 172/11
NBIT [27] 43/5 43/7
43/23 43/24 117/21
117/22 137/14 148/5
148/18 148/22 149/24)
150/6 150/11 150/17
152/3 152/7 152/19
154/15 156/17 156/18)
157/15 159/4 162/12
164/1 172/25 173/6
180/7
NBIT's [1] 151/3
57/19 58/2 60/9 60/11
72/8 73/11 76/6 80/10)
96/21 98/5 98/7 100/1
108/11 108/20 110/14;
165/22 168/23 172/10)
174/21 175/17 175/20)
178/10 178/11 178/20)
myself [4] 66/3 68/17
42/8 70/22 88/2 93/22
necessarily [4] 8/9
20/9 33/25 91/7
necessary [7] 4/13
8/7 11/25 90/11
necessitated [1]
128/17
NED [1] 70/23
need [64] 18/21
39/23 41/2 52/13
55/24 62/25 63/19
84/9 101/11 117/3
126/6 126/14 126/16
126/20 129/6 129/17
131/5 131/19 131/20
131/24 132/1 133/2
133/3 133/6 140/9
143/1 143/3 143/3
143/3 143/5 143/12
146/5 153/22 154/20
155/21 155/25 156/1
156/8 156/8 156/23
173/20 174/1 179/11
181/21 182/9 182/16
183/13 186/23 190/3
190/21 191/22 191/24
192/3 192/21
needed [16] 3/25
6/16 13/9 14/18 14/19
20/7 62/18 80/12
83/13 84/14 122/4
122/4 122/6 129/20
160/20 161/18
needs [9] 39/15
58/18 65/1 82/7 82/20
111/9 131/4 171/16
181/6
negatively [1] 86/3
negotiate [1] 161/11
Neil [5] 41/11 117/4
146/14 171/18 172/3
neither [1] 166/24
net [2] 18/6 18/9
Network [1] 92/12
never [7] 5/11 50/6
57/18 57/18 95/9
96/14 155/19
Nevertheless [1]
24/10
new [34] 20/13 20/15
25/22 28/9 28/17
37/19 37/21 43/5
46/20 51/12 58/11
67/20 76/24 122/4
122/16 126/13 128/5
130/1 131/10 131/11
132/11 141/22 145/17]
149/13 161/7 164/12
164/13 180/9 185/3
185/7 185/12 185/12
159/23 170/17 171/11
NEDs [2] 99/16 111/4
77/1 80/14 82/16 83/6
154/24 155/19 155/20
159/13 162/15 167/17]
186/20 187/20
Newly [1] 138/3
next [10] 40/7 40/8
58/8 111/15 121/13
131/5 137/14 146/13
156/7 182/4
NFSP [3] 42/21 43/8
43/16
NHS [1] 154/7
Nic [2] 72/23 73/12
Nick [29] 3/10 3/10
5/16 11/19 19/25 30/4
30/21 35/3 35/20
41/10 43/13 47/3 47/6)
47/11 47/17 47/20
48/1 48/3 60/3 94/15
94/17 129/10 131/1
132/25 150/12 165/16}
166/8 171/11 179/17
Nick's [2] 5/21 131/7
Nicola [5] 62/11
62/19 64/7 73/3 76/17,
Nigel [8] 20/15 108/8
108/11 149/20 158/18}
158/19 179/22 194/10}
Nisa [1] 47/6
NM [1] 73/2
no [86] 3/14 6/13 9/5
10/23 11/16 15/3 15/7}
19/5 19/16 24/6 24/10)
29/4 31/15 33/19 46/6
47/4 47/10 47/12
47/25 49/3 49/24 58/4)
58/7 59/8 64/19 66/15
66/17 66/25 67/3
68/12 69/21 70/8 74/6)
74/25 75/8 75/21
78/22 79/3 79/5 92/16
92/17 92/23 93/13
100/1 100/8 103/14
103/22 107/12 110/11
110/17 112/14 112/15
113/4 118/19 118/24
119/6 123/4 124/16
124/17 127/16 131/1
131/19 132/25 133/1
134/17 135/4 136/19
138/22 140/23 147/16}
148/3 151/20 152/23
153/5 154/24 156/11
156/11 162/15 163/10}
172/8 175/3 188/22
189/23 191/10 192/23
193/10
nobody [1] 6/21
nodded [5] 88/6
88/10 95/21 104/6
104/10
non [32] 27/5 27/8
27/24 48/9 48/11
48/15 59/10 59/15
59/22 61/24 63/15
63/21 98/11 104/9
109/14 113/16 123/11
123/17 124/5 125/24
126/1 126/5 126/22
130/11 130/15 132/12)
132/20 132/24 139/1
139/12 141/25 142/4
non-employees [1]
104/9
Non-Exec [1] 98/11
Non-Executive [27]
27/5 27/18 27/24 48/9
48/11 48/15 59/10
59/15 59/22 61/24
63/15 63/21 109/14
113/16 123/11 123/17)
124/5 125/24 126/1
126/5 126/22 130/11
130/15 132/12 132/20)
141/25 142/4
Non-Executives [1]
132/24
non-existent [1]
139/1
non-Subject [1]
139/12
none [2] 74/25 75/5
nonetheless [1]
141/14
nor [2] 78/23 166/24
normal [4] 12/13
55/20 121/8 177/2
not [206]
notably [1] 28/4
noted [4] 74/24 76/17
78/21 161/17
nothing [6] 55/20
55/23 79/6 79/9 79/19
80/15
noting [2] 97/15
97/19
notwithstanding [2]
77/8 124/5
November [1] 30/8
now [67] 6/25 13/14
13/16 20/4 26/1 31/5
41/10 55/22 60/1 60/9)
60/17 80/23 81/9
81/10 83/13 84/21
85/11 87/3 87/19
88/16 89/11 90/13
91/3 96/16 97/22
102/1 102/18 103/2
103/24 106/8 106/8
112/21 114/4 115/6
116/19 116/21 116/23)
117/5 117/17 119/20
120/15 120/21 120/22)
121/10 126/13 137/2
139/18 148/5 148/9
149/1 152/12 155/22
156/6 156/21 163/4
172/2 172/3 172/5
176/1 176/23 178/11
179/11 184/19 187/20)
187/25 189/4 190/19
(68) Mr Staunton's... - now
N
NR [1] 80/4
number [49] 1/24 3/6
8/21 35/21 43/5 44/11
48/10 48/11 48/13
55/11 55/12 55/14
70/14 76/1 76/23
83/12 84/4 84/5 87/7
87/9 93/23 103/7
105/3 109/14 112/21
114/4 114/5 116/18
119/7 120/14 120/18
122/17 125/20 126/24}
129/7 132/8 133/5
133/20 137/1 137/5
138/15 141/3 142/16
143/19 148/16 156/24}
173/9 176/20 192/15
number 1 [6] 70/14
114/4 137/1 137/5
156/24 176/20
number 11 [1] 133/5
number 2 [2] 114/5
141/3
number 3 [3] 125/20
138/15 142/16
Number 4 [2] 126/24
143/19
Number 5 [1] 129/7
number 9 [1] 132/8
numbers [2] 87/1
87/5
numerous [1] 23/5
oO.
object [1] 82/23
objected [1] 183/24
objective [7] 155/8
156/11 156/12 160/17
173/16 179/10 186/14
objectives [5] 122/15
129/24 178/2 178/2
178/11
obligation [1] 104/14
obligations [5] 168/6
170/7 173/7 190/15
192/5
obliged [1] 33/23
observation [1] 5/4
observations [1]
4/23
observer [1] 158/16
obtain [2] 25/11
174/11
obtained [2] 115/16
122/18
obtaining [1] 11/15
obvious [7] 6/14
62/17 118/21 119/6
131/1 166/18 174/22
obviously [23] 2/10
3/9 19/8 19/23 19/25
21/2 28/23 51/7 52/22
57/14 67/7 70/8 70/24
71/23 86/12 90/13
96/2 96/4 106/15
181/15 181/24 182/7
182/19
occasions [3] 25/4
87/16 120/19
occur [1] 151/6
occurred [2] 11/3
122/22
occurring [2] 152/13
182/23
October [2] 1/1 67/10
OD [2] 83/15 86/1
odd [2] 35/10 177/6
off [4] 94/25 119/17
155/8 193/11
offence [2] 152/22
175/19
offensive [1] 23/25
offer [1] 123/9
offered [3] 27/5
84/16 120/20
office [189] 3/1 4/9
5/17 5/19 6/8 8/25 9/5)
10/8 10/11 10/15
10/21 11/4 11/24 13/6
14/1 16/12 18/2 18/4
18/7 19/24 20/5 21/8
21/11 21/18 23/7
23/18 24/3 24/10
27/10 27/23 28/10
31/12 32/3 38/10
40/13 40/15 40/21
41/17 41/24 41/25
44/10 44/14 44/16
44/18 47/13 47/16
50/4 50/12 52/24 53/3
54/10 55/13 57/17
63/13 64/2 65/4 65/13
66/23 68/25 70/5
71/18 74/17 78/4
79/12 84/5 87/18
88/22 92/20 92/25
93/8 93/10 95/15 98/6
98/9 98/22 101/4
101/24 102/15 103/2
103/12 104/5 104/7
104/25 105/21 106/18)
109/22 109/22 111/9
112/4 112/7 112/8
114/25 119/7 119/18
120/4 121/2 121/3
121/3 121/10 122/2
122/7 123/17 127/18
128/10 132/6 132/16
133/6 134/18 135/20
136/7 137/24 138/17
140/17 141/19 142/2
142/3 143/15 144/13
144/22 145/9 145/11
145/16 145/23 147/3
150/7 150/10 153/23
153/24 154/2 154/3
158/2 158/12 162/12
166/1 166/16 167/1
167/13 167/18 168/8
168/16 169/5 170/13
170/15 171/3 171/5
171/8 171/10 171/12
171/17 171/20 171/23
172/6 172/12 173/11
174/11 174/13 174/19}
175/3 175/6 175/11
175/13 177/14 177/17
177/19 180/1 180/6
182/10 182/15 183/21
183/25 185/15 186/15}
187/1 187/3 187/13
187/15 187/25 188/3
188/7 188/23 188/25
189/21 190/2 190/6
190/8 190/11 190/15
190/19 192/1
Office's [6] 11/11
11/13 78/6 115/2
180/2 180/4
Officer [11] 2/19 3/1
6/21 10/4 19/21 33/12
51/6 51/9 106/11
106/24 107/4
officer's [1] 169/17
Officers [1] 8/23
official [2] 127/23
134/7
officially [1] 147/18
officials [2] 127/22
177/20
offs [1] 79/24
often [3] 42/2 42/3
151/18
Oh [4] 72/1
okay [11] 72/1 87/10
87/13 101/4 101/17
105/7 121/23 137/20
177/7 185/14 186/11
old [6] 152/12 155/18
156/2 156/20 160/18
178/24
Oldnall [5] 157/8
159/1 159/3 159/12
160/11
omissions [1] 167/9
on [259]
onboarding [5] 6/10
6/19 9/24 14/1 16/16
once [11] 22/12
62/15 116/3 116/3
126/16 131/19 142/18I
153/23 182/11 183/20
184/15
one [66] 6/22 6/24
7/2 7/5 16/6 21/19
26/8 28/23 32/11
33/19 35/23 36/2 38/2
40/14 44/15 48/10
52/11 66/5 66/7 76/10
76/14 77/14 78/24
84/16 88/4 88/4 89/8
92/6 101/18 101/18
101/19 102/12 105/22)
113/7 118/5 119/8
119/9 119/10 120/16
128/1 128/18 130/20
130/24 134/11 136/4
137/6 137/7 138/9
140/16 141/4 144/10
148/1 148/20 150/9
152/20 155/8 155/10
169/15 177/24 178/2
178/2 178/10 178/10
180/21 189/15 190/18}
ones [6] 99/16
114/22 118/1 131/24
140/3 147/13
ongoing [12] 28/17
41/5 66/24 66/25 75/2)
78/9 148/18 151/11
157/16 159/22 164/4
185/22
online [1] 14/6
only [24] 9/1 12/11
19/8 20/24 28/16
29/23 35/18 35/23
56/10 61/13 79/13
82/8 96/16 97/19
128/19 133/20 146/19}
154/16 154/17 158/5
167/22 169/15 170/19
185/14
onto [7] 3/18 52/2
102/5 114/13 115/13
137/18 166/4
onward [1] 46/2
open [5] 7/10 42/15
42/20 43/19 189/7
opened [1] 158/18
openly [1] 28/14
openness [1] 44/6
operate [3] 111/25
127/9 143/8
operated [2] 157/1
167/7
operates [1] 111/23
operating [7] 65/3
96/7 114/7 135/24
143/2 143/7 145/18
operation [2] 86/19
116/16
operational [7] 2/5
2/16 67/25 73/7 73/9
73/22 138/25
operationally [2]
85/16 122/6
opinion [7] 30/23
33/16 44/15 120/24
166/22 166/24 166/25)
opinions [2] 139/7
139/13
opportunities [1]
40/20
opportunity [4] 40/22)
44/5 46/15 47/7
opposed [2] 25/14
174/7
option [4] 80/4 80/5
80/6 80/18
optionality [1]
162/16
options [2] 74/19
162/18
or [156] 1/12 3/5 3/24
4/5 5/14 5/17 7/19 8/6
8/9 8/12 8/23 10/2
11/17 14/25 15/5
15/20 17/22 19/1
21/24 23/11 23/18
23/25 24/21 27/6 27/8
28/14 28/15 28/18
29/1 29/10 29/20
30/14 32/17 33/25
35/5 37/22 39/1 40/16
40/19 41/15 41/21
42/15 47/17 49/5
50/13 50/19 51/1
51/13 55/22 57/16
58/18 59/18 59/23
62/12 63/13 65/9
65/11 65/24 66/10
68/17 70/2 70/5 70/20}
72/18 72/22 74/7
74/13 74/19 78/10
79/15 80/19 81/21
88/20 90/8 90/10 93/1
100/16 101/19 104/9
109/22 110/9 110/22
110/24 111/14 111/7
113/2 113/10 116/8
121/1 121/2 121/22
122/18 122/18 122/20)
128/11 128/21 129/2
130/17 134/2 134/17
134/20 134/25 135/20}
136/15 138/18 138/20}
139/2 144/25 146/13
147/16 148/1 151/2
151/13 152/16 154/10)
154/22 159/11 159/17
159/25 160/19 163/13)
165/2 166/10 167/9
167/9 170/5 173/1
173/5 173/6 175/15
175/19 176/4 176/10
177/1 178/18 178/24
182/4 182/22 183/17
183/22 183/24 184/1
184/10 184/13 187/1
188/9 188/9 188/12
188/13 188/14 188/14I
188/16 188/18 188/24}
190/10 191/17
order [5] 70/7 70/8
126/20 151/8 161/4
organisation [37]
6/11 8/12 9/4 10/5
10/15 16/22 17/4 28/4I
(69) NR - organisation
[e)
28/7 29/14 33/2 33/7
35/14 42/14 53/7
64/25 83/17 84/17
103/10 104/19 106/6
119/10 125/17 126/8
129/10 132/2 133/18
143/1 171/9 173/22
organisational [4]
38/19 39/10 75/19
76/22
9/3 48/24 172/23
178/3 178/5
organise [1] 39/23
orientate [1] 94/8
original [6] 4/16
29/21 36/1 84/2
148/11 149/8
originally [5] 67/22
67/23 70/20 70/21
98/19
other [56] 4/20 5/10
5/15 6/7 7/24 9/15
9/25 11/22 15/8 21/2
21/15 24/23 26/12
33/17 36/10 40/6
41/21 44/4 44/15
52/14 53/19 53/20
56/11 58/16 66/10
69/24 71/6 72/13
73/14 76/14 77/17
85/22 101/1 103/4
104/24 106/17 112/2
118/3 122/17 125/11
129/18 130/17 131/1
132/13 140/21 142/4
143/4 156/24 166/6
167/6 171/19 175/16
other' [1] 52/15
others [4] 15/13 24/4
92/15 172/19
otherwise [2] 65/24
182/4
ought [2] 25/5 183/11
our [43] 13/1 17/20
42/9 45/19 51/16 54/6)
61/18 71/9 71/10
72/11 77/13 78/13
86/20 91/9 93/12 99/9
101/14 101/17 101/17
102/15 102/15 115/13}
128/4 130/12 134/24
135/4 137/9 137/16
141/11 141/13 147/12
153/17 156/11 160/17)
160/18 162/20 164/12)
164/19 173/6 173/14
organisation... [29]
54/22 55/2 57/20 58/3
100/11 101/12 102/24}
organisations [6] 2/5
organised [1] 165/25
48/24 48/24 49/4 51/4
173/16 177/8 183/12
ours [1] 134/23
ourselves [2] 94/9
162/23
out [43] 11/25 12/24
13/22 14/2 21/23
26/18 26/25 54/8
61/3 62/10 62/13
73/4 77/14 87/10
96/14 98/16 107/17
110/1 117/15 123/13
125/24 129/5 136/2
157/8 161/6 162/16
171/15 172/14 181/21
outcome [3] 37/17
52/21 166/18
outcome’ [1] 52/12
outcomes [3] 74/5
134/23 155/24
outdated [1] 28/2
outgoing [1] 132/12
outlined [3] 63/17
75/1 75/6
outlining [1] 159/1
outside [4] 25/20
63/22 78/13 145/20
outsourced [1]
101/19
over [52] 13/13 16/4
16/5 16/5 24/8 25/15
40/10 41/11 46/14
46/22 48/1 50/20
56/16 59/9 62/5 69/22
71/18 77/1 81/16
81/20 83/4 104/22
114/17 116/5 119/16
120/25 121/17 123/19)
124/23 125/19 125/19)
131/20 132/18 136/2
145/6 147/6 148/7
149/22 151/25 152/7
154/4 161/10 167/14
169/11 169/22 170/25)
179/19 181/16
over-rely [1] 104/22
over-spent [1]
151/25
overall [5] 37/17 52/6
102/10 122/1 129/8
overcome [2] 36/3
144/8
overcoming [1]
173/12
oversight [1] 22/14
overtly [1] 138/18
Overturned [1] 88/11
overwhelmed [1]
125/13
overwhelming [1]
55/12 56/8 56/8 56/21
69/24 71/8 71/12 72/3
153/23 156/22 156/23)
185/17 186/17 191/25)
34/12 37/14 40/7 40/8)
40/20
Ow [1] 80/4
owe [1] 71/9
Owen [6] 35/3 35/7
own [17] 13/20 19/8
30/7 30/14 34/13
50/13 53/1 69/19
93/25 96/5 116/9
123/20 135/4 145/20
owned [1] 142/10
owner [1] 17/13
ownership [1] 52/13
owning [4] 52/21
P
143/20
pack [2] 119/23
166/11
package [4] 21/9
23/5 23/7 55/1
packages [1] 21/3
pad [1] 115/22
page [64] 1/16 3/16
3/17 3/18 16/4 16/6
16/6 17/25 22/17
22/22 22/22 24/8 26/1
26/14 37/14 40/10
56/17 59/9 60/3 63/3
65/23 69/22 70/18
71/2 72/20 78/3 83/4
97/2 97/5 97/6 97/17
102/1 108/18 108/18
115/15 115/24 116/5
125/19 125/20 136/2
140/14 147/6 157/6
158/22 158/23 161/10
167/14 169/11 169/22
169/23 179/19 179/20}
187/9 187/11
page 1 [2] 97/2 97/5
page 109 [1] 119/24
page 11 [3] 71/2
158/22 158/23
page 12 [1] 26/14
page 15 [3] 22/22
22/22 63/3
page 19 [2] 115/15
118/12
page 24 [2] 52/3 52/9
page 28 [1] 115/24
page 3 [1] 72/20
page 32 [2] 187/9
187/11
page 33 [1] 108/18
page 40 [1] 17/25
page 5 [6] 22/17 26/1
50/21 102/1 114/15
61/10 67/23 68/6 68/9
160/18 175/18 191/19}
161/23 161/24 162/1
pace [2] 136/22
46/14 50/21 52/3 52/9
114/15 114/16 114/17]
118/12 119/24 123/19]
114/16
page 52 [1] 65/23
page 6 [1] 157/6
page 7 [4] 3/18 16/6
70/18 140/14
page 74 [1] 1/16
paints [1] 40/25
paper [8] 54/2 73/4
73/12 97/15 97/21
100/2 157/8 159/1
papers [1] 59/21
paragraph [40] 3/19
46/16 51/25 52/10
56/25 57/22 58/8
114/24 124/20 124/21
134/13 147/8 148/6
169/12 169/13 170/11
171/1 171/1 184/21
187/12 187/12
paragraph 12 [1]
114/18
Paragraph 13 [1]
114/24
paragraph 164 [1]
29/6
paragraph 20 [2]
187/12 187/12
paragraph 21 [1]
3/19
paragraph 212 [2]
94/4 94/8
paragraph 22 [1] 4/7
Paragraph 29 [1]
27/2
Paragraph 3 [2]
37/16 71/5
paragraph 30 [2]
27/25 28/20
paragraph 4 [1]
134/13
paragraph 56 [1]
184/21
Paragraph 70 [1]
51/25
paragraph 71 [1]
52/10
paragraph 77 [1]
31/23
paragraph 79 [1]
34/2
paragraph 99 [1]
42/13
paragraphs [8] 3/4
13/22 22/23 27/1
65/15 72/19 97/8
188/6
Paragraphs 15 [1]
panel [6] 22/14 22/14
70/22 70/25 71/3 74/2
AIT 4/8 27/2 27/25 44/19
28/20 29/6 31/23 34/2) part [31] 2/15 2/16
37/16 42/13 44/13 5/15 22/14 32/1 58/11
65/23 71/5 83/8 83/25)
94/4 94/8 94/9 114/18
3/4
paragraphs 153 [1]
65/15
paragraphs 20.4 [1]
188/6
paragraphs 25 [1]
13/22
paragraphs 29 [1]
27/1
parameters [1] 25/21
Pardon [1] 145/13
Parliament [3] 44/12
65/25 88/18
Parliamentary [1]
64/17 65/17 66/2 85/3I
91/19 92/3 101/14
101/21 104/25 105/3
115/1 120/7 126/11
135/9 138/22 143/24
148/23 153/17 154/22)
154/24 155/20 158/9
184/14 185/8 187/8
Participants [1] 92/8
particular [28] 2/15
8/24 10/23 12/3 19/23}
23/10 26/16 32/8
32/23 34/16 34/18
42/5 49/22 57/9 58/11
62/11 64/5 68/8 69/11
70/11 73/17 92/18
111/20 111/22 112/4
116/15 130/22 180/14I
particularised [3]
29/25 30/1 30/9
particularly [17] 32/3
32/9 32/21 47/5 53/2
53/8 54/13 61/7
113/17 124/19 139/11
139/15 141/9 147/11
155/14 165/21 173/23)
parties [5] 153/21
154/2 154/5 162/17
167/13
parts [4] 9/12 9/15
89/16 95/7
party [1] 157/22
passage [2] 71/5
72/18
passages [3] 27/1
72/25 169/23
passed [3] 37/3
119/19 152/6
passing [1] 150/15
past [33] 16/19 41/10
46/13 54/17 66/19
66/21 67/15 68/17
69/5 69/9 70/17 71/12
72/2 72/19 72/21 73/5I
74/14 75/1 76/7 85/14)
89/11 93/3 102/22
105/18 106/8 114/22
(70) organisation... - past
P
past... [7] 115/5
120/7 137/23 144/24
147/11 147/22 148/8
Patel [1] 123/16
path [1] 160/7
Patterson [5] 166/8
166/19 170/23 172/4
190/4
Paul [3] 169/4 172/4
172/19
pause [4] 55/24 56/2
56/12 84/1
pausing [2] 27/11
157/21
pay [15] 22/18 22/21
23/2 23/15 24/2 24/6
24/13 24/22 25/2 25/6
25/11 25/14 40/19
55/1 132/6
paying [2] 161/7
191/19
payment [2] 82/1
A777
payments [3] 86/13
137/8 180/16
peak [1] 13/13
penny [1] 111/25
penultimate [1]
147/18
people [149] 2/14
2/17 2/19 3/1 3/7 3/11
3/12 5/8 5/15 6/7 6/15
6/20 7/5 7/11 7/11
7/24 8/3 8/5 8/11 8/19
8/23 9/13 9/15 10/4
10/5 10/14 14/3 14/5
14/19 15/10 15/12
15/16 16/17 16/20
16/22 17/3 17/17
19/21 21/8 25/24
32/24 33/4 33/22
35/15 36/18 38/25
39/17 39/24 41/14
41/16 41/20 43/20
44/4 44/9 44/11 46/10
52/21 53/8 53/13
53/16 54/7 54/9 54/13
54/17 54/20 61/14
61/15 62/16 64/9 65/9
67/14 67/24 70/12
71/22 72/11 72/13
72/21 76/1 76/8 77/8
79/7 79/20 81/14
81/24 82/5 82/9 82/18
84/4 84/16 85/8 85/10
85/13 85/16 85/17
86/9 87/1 87/9 88/17
89/1 90/5 93/11 93/14
95/9 97/4 97/4 97/11
98/8 100/6 100/6
100/11 100/18 101/1
101/3 101/4 101/5
103/5 103/10 104/18
105/19 106/11 106/17)
106/24 107/1 107/4
113/8 113/17 125/15
129/25 132/1 143/9
143/13 143/16 145/10)
145/18 146/1 146/2
149/7 149/16 154/14
155/11 156/6 177/18
178/22 179/1 179/2
179/11 184/7 184/9
189/4
people's [4] 40/25
61/20 88/7 184/8
per [20] 18/6 18/9
115/20 115/21 115/22!
115/22 116/1 116/2
116/3 116/6 116/17
118/13 118/19 142/10)
145/7 145/9 154/14
154/16 191/11 191/14)
perceived [2] 63/18
75/11
perception [10] 19/8
42/14 42/15 60/15
70/3 74/24 77/8 78/24
81/4 89/24
perfect [2] 53/11
53/14
perfectly [1] 56/4
perform [1] 131/6
performance [10] 8/1
8/4 8/12 10/14 33/1
33/6 41/12 53/13
83/12 144/7
performed [4] 70/2
70/4 71/11 153/15
performing [2] 8/5
106/25
perhaps [23] 25/25
50/18 56/6 66/16
66/18 135/21 139/8
140/14 142/4 143/13
146/17 149/6 149/8
151/22 151/24 162/1
162/2 162/22 166/4
172/18 184/15 184/15)
187/8
period [15] 3/11 8/7
11/16 13/13 48/6
61/18 61/19 81/15
81/20 82/5 90/16
90/22 157/15 170/6
190/20
periodically [1]
149/22
permanent [7] 27/6
28/18 28/19 111/8
111/11 126/20 154/16)
permission [1] 81/8
persist [1] 30/15
persisted [1] 57/3
person [7] 17/22
62/20 103/5 132/5
139/3 171/13 175/16
personal [5] 4/15 6/5
24/17 105/13 123/20
personally [8] 13/20
16/2 57/13 57/25
58/10 78/25 105/15
147/14
personnel [2] 151/2
171/20
perspective [8] 9/22
20/3 23/14 35/7 62/21
68/4 81/5 103/22
pertained [1] 30/2
perverse [1] 152/11
Pete [1] 51/8
Phase [3] 148/10
171/5 182/21
Phase 2 [1] 148/10
Phase 7 [2] 171/5
182/21
Phoenix [14] 46/13
66/19 66/21 68/11
68/12 68/16 68/18
68/24 69/6 89/11
89/13 90/8 90/17 91/4
physically [1] 41/16
picture [2] 40/25
153/14
PIDA [1] 152/22
iece [1] 54/2
pin [2] 76/14 115/22
Pineapple [5] 56/16
60/2 60/5 61/1 62/14
pinpoint [1] 76/11
Pinsent [1] 150/6
place [33] 12/8 15/6
24/15 25/8 29/4 36/7
39/11 39/12 40/15
40/18 58/14 82/4
85/11 90/12 94/20
96/2 97/14 97/23 98/2
98/19 98/20 102/2
103/24 111/12 131/17]
137/13 142/17 144/19]
155/15 155/17 159/6
161/25 173/18
places [1] 65/5
plain [2] 142/22
142/24
plan [76] 15/10 15/12
15/19 15/24 16/2 16/4
16/8 17/8 17/16 17/17
17/18 41/14 42/3 81/9}
83/19 84/9 86/1 97/4
97/11 97/14 97/21
97/24 98/1 98/1 98/12
98/14 99/3 99/18
100/2 100/6 100/18
101/14 101/17 101/18
102/18 117/20 119/18}
119/20 120/12 120/22
120/23 121/1 121/3
121/4 121/5 121/11
121/11 122/15 126/13}
126/20 127/17 127/17
128/4 128/8 139/22
139/24 143/7 145/15
149/7 149/8 149/10
159/2 160/6 160/18
173/1 181/18 183/4
183/19 183/20 183/20}
183/23 184/4 184/9
184/11 184/16 186/19
planned [1] 129/5
planning [2] 73/15
131/15
plans [8] 18/25 19/1
19/1 19/3 25/24 82/4
84/19 142/17
platform [10] 131/5
131/10 131/11 157/11
159/7 159/10 159/12
160/2 161/7 163/23
play [1] 79/24
pleasant [1] 4/5
pleasantly [1] 121/18
please [83] 1/9 1/13
1/16 3/16 10/22 12/6
16/4 16/5 17/20 21/22}
22/17 26/14 27/1 29/9)
32/1 34/5 36/20 36/23
37/14 38/7 40/10 44/7,
46/14 48/8 50/20
50/25 52/10 55/17
56/15 56/17 56/20
59/9 59/25 62/9 63/3
65/22 69/22 70/15
70/18 71/2 72/16
72/20 77/4 82/24 83/4
93/25 94/8 96/24 97/7,
102/1 102/6 102/12
108/10 108/17 114/13
114/15 114/17 115/13}
115/15 115/24 116/5
118/12 119/21 123/19}
125/7 125/19 125/20
130/25 132/8 133/5
139/17 140/12 140/15)
142/23 147/9 148/13
157/2 157/6 158/22
164/22 166/7 167/14
179/19
pm [5] 108/2 108/4
164/23 164/25 193/22}
point [42] 8/13 11/8
12/24 41/7 41/20 47/9}
60/16 60/20 74/1 78/3
82/9 86/6 86/18 86/19)
87/8 98/10 98/15
99/21 138/16 140/22
141/1 142/17 143/6
148/17 149/8 153/1
154/14 154/14 159/8
159/14 160/21 161/8
161/12 162/10 163/10}
175/20 175/22 176/3
177/23 184/18 186/16
189/10
pointed [2] 98/16
161/6
pointing’ [1] 24/7
points [1] 160/10
POL's [1] 180/14
POL00000254 [1]
187/9
POL00446477 [1]
140/12
POL00446673 [1]
36/20
POL00447854 [2]
97/2 97/5
POL00448308 [1]
69/4
POL00448411 [1]
44/8
POL00448519 [1]
147/2
POL00448599 [1]
59/25
POL00448615 [1]
70/16
POL00448624 [1]
119/21
POL00448641 [1]
21/22
POL00448648 [1]
158/14
POL00448653 [2]
55/18 56/15
POL00448681 [1]
122/22
POL00448785 [1]
10/22
POL00448788 [1]
92/8
POL00448864 [2]
72/16 157/2
POL00458447 [1]
82/24
POL00458453 [1]
15/11
POL00458458 [1]
50/18
POL00458463 [2]
101/16 101/16
POL00460000 [1]
62/9
POL00460593 [1]
148/13
POL00460606 [2]
133/25 134/4
polarisation [1]
128/6
polarity [4] 122/7
122/16 145/4 145/17
police [17] 165/23
165/24 166/16 167/18)
168/21 168/23 169/15}
169/19 173/1 173/23
174/1 174/11 175/7
176/4 176/16 176/20
176/25
(71) past... - police
P
policies [2] 103/24
103/25
policy [7] 8/9 26/22
83/10 104/2 104/2
104/12 104/20
political [5] 39/2 39/4
73/7 73/10 73/23
politics [1] 124/7
poor [5] 8/11 8/12
40/12 129/18 152/16
popular [1] 112/25
populate [2] 142/20
143/6
population [10]
10/19 17/2 34/3 34/10
36/15 38/6 65/14
85/14 93/11 99/12
posed [1] 76/19
poses [1] 72/5
position [24] 13/17
19/13 22/18 26/9
60/20 81/23 91/16
91/18 96/3 111/8
111/14 113/20 155/4
157/9 158/8 164/2
168/19 169/7 177/16
181/5 182/3 182/11
190/1 190/11
positions [5] 13/4
109/11 109/15 143/17)
153/14
positive [3] 41/22
50/6 99/9
possession [1]
175/11
ies [1] 79/4
possibility [4] 100/13
162/10 162/14 165/3
possible [15] 21/13
38/24 55/10 94/5
100/9 104/21 137/11
164/8 164/11 164/16
173/18 174/8 188/12
188/18 188/24
possibly [8] 29/17
43/14 96/23 143/11
153/19 167/20 173/9
173/10
post [195]
post-March [1] 172/8
post-my [1] 178/11
postmaster [35]
10/18 13/2 13/10
17/11 17/14 41/25
43/16 45/1 45/12
45/15 48/15 49/7 49/8
49/11 49/23 50/9
59/10 59/22 63/15
63/20 70/3 70/23
77/10 98/11 99/12
99/16 106/21 111/4
130/11 170/9 170/21
175/15 189/8 189/19
189/24
postmasters [56]
10/6 10/17 16/13
16/25 19/2 19/10 41/3
41/23 44/4 44/15
48/23 49/10 57/3
60/13 62/22 63/12
64/1 64/22 70/13
98/10 98/15 98/17
99/7 100/22 101/13
103/1 104/18 106/7
107/5 117/6 119/19
122/5 122/8 122/11
122/16 128/5 141/22
144/22 145/17 146/3
161/19 168/8 168/14
168/17 169/1 170/14
170/17 172/7 179/3
184/22 185/4 186/20
189/16 190/9 191/11
192/16
postmasters' [1]
164/17
potential [6] 55/7
74/5 77/18 85/14
86/11 86/13
potentially [6] 26/23
64/20 76/8 160/1
165/2 165/3
power [1] 58/8
PR [3] 11/2 11/6
12/20
practice [10] 20/3
37/7 51/1 51/3 52/19
86/10 138/12 139/2
162/7 186/24
practices [2] 54/6
54/15
pre [7] 12/7 14/1
14/12 24/3 36/24 81/7)
134/1
pre-dated [1] 24/3
pre-dates [1] 134/1
pre-existing [1]
14/12
pre-joining [1] 14/1
pre-the [2] 36/24
81/7
precision [1] 161/18
preconditions [1]
119/11
predecessor [3]
23/20 46/23 118/20
predominant [1]
38/12
predominantly [1]
189/24
Preetha [1] 130/5
preparation [2] 17/24
45/4
prepared [5] 128/3
150/1 186/25 187/1
191/3
preparing [1] 59/21
present [11] 9/6
42/23 42/25 43/2
45/10 73/12 83/14
85/6 158/14 160/7
164/2
presentation [1]
72/24
presented [6] 74/19
74/20 97/18 129/3
149/14 160/6
presenting [2] 129/2
149/16
preside [1] 158/20
pressure [9] 3/13
11/20 23/15 23/19
35/11 73/23 76/2 76/3
125/23
pressures [3] 7/4
101/2 124/6
presumably [3]
10/10 31/12 103/7
pretty [6] 88/1 113/23}
120/10 140/6 182/18
182/22
prevalent [3] 63/12
64/2 64/23
prevent [2] 63/14
124/24
previous [4] 28/24
48/14 51/11 118/5
previously [13] 9/2
21/25 22/2 29/10
29/11 51/10 58/13
74/15 77/15 85/13
136/21 167/4 179/25
primarily [1] 6/20
principal [1] 35/9
principle [4] 48/17
186/21 186/22 186/23
principles [2] 48/25
145/5
prior [8] 14/4 14/12
95/23 96/22 111/5
150/20 156/12 172/25)
priorities [9] 97/12
136/23 137/1 137/2
137/6 137/16 179/25
180/9 180/19
prioritise [1] 171/11
priority [2] 17/15
137/9
probably [21] 6/23
8/18 15/13 20/25
21/16 32/17 32/19
35/7 62/24 67/9 67/10
68/6 68/6 68/8 70/13
97/9 103/21 104/16
105/16 129/9 143/13
problem [5] 8/24
32/14 99/17 128/14
139/6
problematic [1] 48/3
problems [8] 32/8
35/25 76/9 118/21
119/8 119/9 150/11
189/21
procedures [1] 75/23
proceeding [1]
131/10
proceedings [2]
166/22 167/25
process [42] 3/14
6/13 6/14 6/18 8/9
13/21 15/6 28/2 28/17}
28/19 29/1 38/25
39/12 74/10 80/11
81/10 84/15 88/22
88/22 88/25 89/25
91/19 92/4 110/20
116/24 116/25 121/17]
129/19 131/21 147/23}
148/2 171/4 176/19
179/2 179/6 186/5
188/5 189/2 189/4
189/5 189/10 189/19
processes [19] 8/11
27/9 29/13 35/13
38/18 39/7 54/15
58/14 75/23 91/10
102/16 115/4 162/9
163/3 168/11 170/3
189/17 192/16 192/18)
processing [3] 76/19
77/2 163/14
procurement [2]
148/11 159/11
produce [1] 188/8
produced [1] 168/1
producing [1] 27/22
proficient [1] 21/14
profound [1] 184/25
programme [20] 5/12
5/14 47/3 91/8 95/11
99/10 101/22 117/21
117/22 134/10 137/15}
139/18 148/23 149/24}
151/13 152/18 154/1
154/21 161/3 163/23
programs [1] 179/8
progress [12] 7/16
44/6 53/16 72/11
81/22 91/3 91/5
107/13 148/21 150/11
152/1 169/21
progressed [1] 91/14
progressing [1]
148/24
progression [2]
40/20 54/16
project [28] 46/12
46/13 56/16 60/2 60/5
61/1 62/14 66/18
66/20 68/11 68/12
68/16 68/24 69/5 69/9)
72/19 74/14 76/8
89/11 89/13 90/8
90/17 91/4 149/1
149/21 151/14 151/24I
151/25
project's [1] 151/4
projects [1] 151/18
promise [2] 54/3
54/25
prompt [1] 82/1
promptly [2] 168/6
168/10
proper [7] 118/10
128/24 140/24 147/22)
148/2 167/21 190/22
properly [14] 5/6
14/20 16/17 56/13
81/22 116/11 117/8
122/11 127/5 128/24
142/11 184/1 187/17
188/8
property [1] 4/13
proportion [1]
118/14
proposal [1] 159/2
proposals [8] 183/24
183/24 184/13 185/9
185/18 185/22 186/11
186/17
proposed [6] 157/14
160/10 161/2 161/4
163/18 183/23
proposition [2] 19/1
189/8
prosecute [1] 175/4
prosecuting [1]
174/25
prosecution [3]
77/10 165/5 165/11
prosecutions [3]
168/21 169/25 173/13}
prosecutors [1]
166/16
prospect [1] 181/15
prospective [1]
28/11
protect [1] 66/9
protected [1] 46/3
proved [1] 152/22
provide [16] 88/13
102/16 102/21 103/9
103/16 161/5 166/2
166/14 166/25 168/2
168/20 168/23 173/7
173/12 177/5 190/7
provided [12] 14/25
45/25 115/7 121/8
123/2 123/6 123/7
151/17 160/13 165/13}
170/7 179/25
providing [3] 98/7
166/23 181/1
proving [1] 112/24
provision [2] 92/13
163/17
provoke [1] 182/16
Proximity [1] 38/18
(72) policies - Proximity
Pp
185/23
psychology [1] 2/2
public [9] 11/9 21/3
21/20 70/4 72/12
74/24 129/19 161/19
182/8
publicly [1] 171/6
published [2] 1/25
108/25
pull [1] 120/12
purchased [1] 2/23
purpose [14] 2/25
15/11 37/23 46/19
109/21 132/3 140/16
144/20 144/21 145/5
145/16
purposes [1] 175/22
pursues [3] 168/16
169/6 170/14
pursuit [1] 168/4
put [13] 15/6 39/24
78/5 111/12 122/8
135/25 147/22 159/6
173/18 181/17 186/17
187/20 189/4
putting [1] 7/14
Q
psychiatric [1]
144/11 144/17 144/18)
160/19
questions [30] 7/10
41/20 53/7 67/6 67/9
93/24 95/25 96/8
96/17 102/9 105/12
115/3 124/1 124/3
133/9 171/19 181/9
192/23 192/24 193/2
quick [1] 182/18
quicker [1] 82/7
quickly [10] 32/19
67/13 82/6 120/11
121/18 137/13 148/2
179/9 179/10 188/21
quite [41] 6/7 9/8
11/22 14/22 16/14
18/10 20/18 20/21
21/5 34/11 34/22
35/12 35/17 38/22
53/22 64/6 73/13
99/8 113/15 116/18
126/23 127/13 132/4
135/14 137/5 138/9
141/4 146/7 168/25
172/16 173/21 178/8
190/17 190/20
qualified [6] 33/21
33/25 68/7 89/2 109/1
149/23
quality [9] 14/16 27/4
37/8 43/7 84/22 85/8
120/19 120/23 152/10
quarter [2] 136/15
136/15
quartile [1] 20/25
quashed [1] 88/8
queried [4] 159/9
160/4 160/22 161/2
queries [1] 179/7
query [1] 11/24
querying [2] 160/9
161/10
question [29] 10/10
30/24 32/25 53/8 85/4
86/7 89/3 89/16 94/3
95/13 96/21 98/4
100/5 106/3 106/13
107/3 130/19 133/19
149/16 173/3 173/14
175/5 175/6 180/18
183/12 186/4 187/24
190/18 190/23
questioned [13] 1/8
93/21 106/1 108/9
115/18 181/12 183/10}
194/4 194/6 194/8
194/12 194/14 194/16
questioning [1]
race [1] 26/21
Railton [19] 20/15
29/2 108/6 108/8
108/11 108/12 147/9
158/18 158/19 161/22)
165/1 179/22 179/25
181/15 186/21 192/7
193/3 193/19 194/10
railway [1] 109/4
raise [2] 46/9 83/11
raised [21] 21/25
28/14 63/8 65/16 83/5)
83/23 85/5 85/25
124/3 133/15 135/17
150/5 151/13 152/3
154/1 154/6 161/12
171/3 173/25 181/15
185/19
raises [1] 14/7
raising [3] 13/25
13/25 153/7
ran [1] 34/8
range [1] 103/3
ranks [1] 2/22
rapid [1] 171/16
rated [1] 75/10
rather [12] 53/25
72/6 78/5 90/6 101/7
106/6 106/24 117/4
146/4 152/10 156/2
158/2
73/1 92/7 93/18 93/19)
105/25 107/15 107/15)
181/10 181/11 181/13)
73/16 76/13 87/7 91/8)
118/14 124/16 124/18)
rational [1] 129/12
RCC [1] 135/2
re [1] 143/25
re-engineer [1]
143/25
reached [1] 64/3
react [1] 32/19
reacting [1] 121/19
read [52] 3/10 3/17
20/12 22/19 22/23
30/4 37/15 44/19
46/10 46/21 46/24
47/22 52/20 55/6
71/5 72/18 72/25
94/15 95/3 95/20
96/11 96/20 123/8
165/10 165/16 166/8
190/5
Read's [4] 23/16
23/22 24/13 30/21
reading [3] 14/2 64/5
76/6
ready [1] 153/23
real [6] 10/23 40/22
99/1 125/23 130/24
178/20
Realistically [1]
113/21
reality [3] 42/16
42/18 42/19
Reallocation [1] 74/7
really [39] 6/15 10/13
15/18 39/6 41/22 49/9
49/19 50/7 50/8 52/18
78/14 81/16 82/12
84/12 102/24 104/21
117/15 120/20 125/22
129/13 129/21 133/21
141/14 142/12 142/14)
144/9 146/12 146/14
146/19 149/13 162/3
162/9 183/1 185/2
185/2 185/11 186/10
189/9 189/19
reason [14] 7/24
15/17 35/18 43/17
66/10 80/10 90/18
96/16 99/15 125/15
136/13 136/23 149/9
176/24
reasonable [2]
172/20 172/20
reasonably [1]
173/18
reasoning [2] 26/25
158/4
reasons [9] 7/4 7/5
5/9 14/19 17/22 17/23
22/25 23/4 23/8 23/10)
24/1 24/4 29/19 29/23
55/12 60/3 60/9 60/13
131/13 133/16 149/18}
169/22 171/24 176/12
179/17 188/21 188/22
76/15 129/8 130/20
130/24 168/2 177/18
189/15
reassuring [1]
168/14
rebuilding [1] 163/10
Recaldin [8] 72/24
82/18 83/6 178/8
recall [7] 33/19 43/10
43/22 62/6 123/8
160/2 171/6
receipt [1] 61/8
receive [1] 3/5
received [12] 23/16
104/4 114/13 123/2
123/9 147/17 149/22
150/14 153/7 154/10
165/21 169/14
recent [5] 49/8
120/13 122/18 158/19}
165/10
recently [8] 41/22
45/5 64/15 79/14
86/20 99/4 130/1
184/22
recognise [5] 71/10
124/19 138/10 139/10}
154/12
recollection [1]
69/16
recommend [3] 74/5
78/22 107/7
recommendation [6]
24/9 24/15 73/4 76/20
80/1 80/21
recommendations
[5] 21/7 63/18 79/23
114/5 139/19
recommended [3]
14/2 75/14 77/21
reconcile [1] 148/25
record [2] 186/8
187/17
records [3] 167/4
187/18 188/9
recover [2] 170/16
190/19
recoveries [8]
168/13 168/16 169/6
170/14 170/16 170/19}
173/2 173/13
recruit [3] 13/4 21/13
54/9
recruited [2] 13/14
143/9
recruiting [1] 112/21
recruitment [8] 9/19
27/9 28/17 28/22 54/6)
54/14 102/13 102/15
recruits [1] 76/24
redactions [1] 46/18
redeployed [1] 77/19
redeploying [2]
73/2 73/3 76/17 79/22,
74/21 76/8
redeployment [3]
74/8 74/13 75/14
redesign [1] 143/25
redesigning [1]
76/21
redress [23] 72/6
75/13 75/22 76/1
76/19 77/2 77/13
77/25 78/5 78/20 82/2I
82/21 84/24 85/9 86/4I
177/19 177/15 177/17
177/24 178/7 178/18
180/23 181/2
reduce [2] 76/24
114/2
reduction [1] 76/18
redundancy [4]
79/12 79/16 81/11
81/13
redundant [1] 79/20
refer [7] 30/13 30/13
39/3 54/17 94/7 98/3
100/14
reference [15] 1/24
14/3 63/25 69/6 71/20}
71/24 75/1 75/6 97/1
98/21 100/20 124/21
149/8 166/9 180/15
referenced [1] 59/13
references [1] 39/3
referred [8] 12/10
15/16 26/7 26/11
26/12 34/20 52/1
94/12
referring [4] 43/1
49/12 84/7 165/17
refers [1] 69/8
reflect [2] 23/23
37/11
reflection [1] 70/7
reflections [1]
137/19
refused [1] 127/15
refuses [1] 74/12
regard [7] 27/17
32/23 33/18 57/13
76/9 131/18 153/16
regarded [1] 5/23
regarding [15] 25/6
55/7 57/1 59/10 84/3
85/25 88/25 94/18
94/21 95/16 129/22
165/11 168/4 171/16
180/23
regards [2] 44/1
115/19
regular [2] 41/9 41/9
regularly [2] 42/3
91/15
rehired [2] 92/20
92/21
reinforce [1] 14/5
reinforced [1] 171/8
(73) psychiatric - reinforced
R
103/1
related [5] 29/15
relates [7] 11/1 66/5
66/7 83/5 95/13
126/24 127/6
relating [13] 26/4
28/13 68/23 71/18
84/10 92/25 93/1
148/18 150/5 152/3
152/20 152/21 162/9
relation [22] 21/24
22/3 22/6 22/20 22/21
107/4 150/15 151/18
152/25 153/3 161/19
164/3 164/7 183/19
relationship [21]
5/10 10/16 17/8 18/5
18/11 18/20 18/22
19/11 24/20 49/16
50/16 94/22 95/19
100/24 126/21 133/15
140/25 141/5 141/8
171/25 172/11
relationships [2]
17/14 174/7
relative [1] 4/3
relevance [1] 47/5
relevant [20] 2/10
2/25 22/5 35/15 53/3
63/16 63/23 72/13
72/13 109/21 111/17
112/5 112/5 112/9
149/17 153/24 168/1
169/23 170/5 188/8
reliability [4] 152/11
166/17 166/21 167/25)
reliable [1] 150/13
Reliance [1] 153/20
reliant [4] 153/17
154/2 154/7 167/12
relied [1] 134/24
reluctance [1] 33/22
rely [2] 104/22 169/1
remain [1] 129/12
remains [1] 31/6
remarks [4] 26/20
26/22 28/1 28/6
RemCo [3] 26/9
59/11 59/17
remediation [19]
73/6 73/16 75/13
75/17 76/2 76/9 76/22
77/17 79/8 81/14
81/25 84/21 84/25
87/2 87/14 87/18
180/15 180/19 186/5
remember [8] 47/20
reiterated [1] 161/8
relate [3] 68/24 72/19
29/23 67/7 68/3 102/9
73/5 75/22 76/7 77/25
78/20 83/10 90/8 91/3
47/21 55/16 62/4
67/18 75/7 75/8
135/16
remind [3] 55/10
66/3 83/24
remit [6] 19/15 91/7
98/5 128/4 128/4
132/4
remitting [1] 167/9
remotely [1] 193/16
removed [1] 160/25
removing [1] 81/14
remuneration [11]
19/14 19/17 19/19
20/18 20/20 20/24
23/5
rental [1] 4/13
reorganisation [1]
79/11
repeat [3] 30/24
66/11 99/20
repeated [1] 33/3
repeating [1] 85/4
replace [1] 13/15
replaced [2] 13/17
81/25
replacement [2]
112/3 154/15
replied [2] 160/11
160/23
report [35] 10/25
17/21 17/22 17/23
21/23 22/7 25/25 26/2
26/3 26/18 36/21
36/22 36/23 36/24
36/24 37/4 37/5 37/6
37/11 37/17 62/10
70/16 71/25 97/3
114/6 115/14 115/16
117/11 137/19 140/5
140/13 164/5 176/4
191/21 191/23
reported [5] 3/9
116/18 149/25 176/15)
191/15
reporters [2] 150/6
152/16
reporting [3] 81/15
149/22 168/6
reports [6] 27/20
35/21 120/14 122/17
150/11 153/7
reposition [1] 145/4
represent [2] 93/22
141/12
representation [4]
33/5 43/15 48/22
59/14
representative [2]
20/16 27/10
representatives [2]
34/9 142/9
21/3 21/9 21/14 21/18
repeatedly [1] 192/17
represented [1]
34/11
reprocure [1] 163/24
reputation [3] 5/21
96/13 186/12
request [5] 31/1
191/3
requested [1] 168/21
requesting [1] 160/8
requests [4] 24/12
44/22 45/8 173/23
require [2] 15/9
174/16
required [11] 4/17
11/4 83/9 85/10
126/18 127/20 142/21
148/1 165/23 170/3
173/8
requirement [2] 27/7
73/15
requirements [9]
32/16 76/13 78/11
82/13 82/17 85/12
142/15 156/1 171/21
requires [2] 144/16
179/2
research [1] 155/5
reset [3] 128/5
154/20 155/20
resetting [3] 117/21
144/16 144/18
resign [1] 23/11
ined [1] 132/25
nce [1] 180/5
resist [1] 56/11
resolution [4] 116/21
116/24 136/22 191/16}
resolve [8] 129/4
168/9 190/12 191/17
192/4 192/11 192/14
192/19
resolved [10] 36/11
81/12 116/6 116/8
136/15 136/18 136/25
138/7 138/8 163/16
resource [3] 78/11
82/13 82/16
resources [2] 9/22
84/22
resourcing [5] 83/19
84/9 84/18 85/12 86/1
respect [33] 4/17
5/25 18/11 22/25
24/12 25/11 28/2
28/20 29/2 29/9 30/20
31/21 41/5 41/6 42/4
48/15 49/2 57/9 59/2
59/8 68/6 83/6 85/9
107/1 122/1 124/9
125/2 141/7 150/16
157/1 161/8 169/5
183/4
respond [2] 46/16
171/15 171/16 182/17
47/1
responded [1]
191/12
responds [1] 169/10
response [3] 26/17
169/9 170/23
responses [1]
115/19
responsibilities [2]
10/3 39/16
responsibility [20]
27/12 27/13 28/21
52/7 55/1 56/23 61/11
61/14 68/7 93/2
162/13 171/13
responsible [16]
6/19 6/25 7/12 27/22
38/3 39/19 44/25
45/12 52/4 52/22
59/20 89/19 89/20
89/23 139/3 139/20
rest [1] 50/23
restorative [3]
184/19 185/9 185/18
restore [2] 186/12
186/14
restructuring [1]
79/11
result [8] 11/3 58/5
69/17 75/4 123/12
146/23 152/25 169/19}
resulting [2] 152/21
166/18
results [15] 37/11
37/15 44/16 44/23
45/8 45/10 45/21
45/25 46/6 115/16
117/12 117/14 117/15}
123/24 153/4
resume [1] 51/17
retail [8] 2/20 17/10
32/9 33/12 50/15 51/6)
51/9 132/3
retail-facing [1] 32/9
retailers [1] 111/24
retain [1] 50/14
retender [1] 12/8
retraining [1] 186/1
retribution [1] 28/15
return [1] 26/2
reuse [1] 155/23
reverse [1] 122/6
review [46] 36/6
70/17 72/2 73/5 75/2
75/15 88/22 100/12
114/4 117/19 119/14
119/15 119/20 120/22)
121/1 121/10 122/3
126/14 126/17 127/12}
127/14 131/25 137/9
137/12 139/16 139/23}
140/1 140/10 140/18
10/20 10/21 17/1 17/7]
40/2 42/11 43/24 45/2
140/22 140/23 144/17
145/3 145/21 146/6
146/8 146/21 146/23
153/17 154/22 154/24)
155/24 164/14 183/20)
185/8 192/16
reviewed [2] 14/17
38/20
reviewing [2] 135/10
189/16
reviews [2] 120/14
122/18
revised [3] 143/7
149/7 149/10
right [79] 2/2 2/20
2/23 2/24 14/8 16/20
21/12 31/19 34/25
35/5 36/7 39/24 39/24I
42/24 51/17 54/4
54/10 54/10 54/13
64/11 65/5 65/11 72/1
74/18 74/22 82/4
85/24 87/10 87/13
87/23 88/2 89/5 89/10}
91/7 95/12 97/2 99/19I
105/7 106/2 107/10
107/19 109/5 110/5
121/9 121/20 121/23
126/3 127/17 128/4
128/8 132/18 135/9
144/2 144/19 145/18
145/18 145/19 145/19)
146/20 151/14 155/15)
155/19 169/24 170/1
170/2 172/21 173/18
174/5 174/17 174/24
175/1 175/10 176/13
176/23 177/7 183/5
190/19 191/6 191/18
rightly [1] 53/15
rigorous [1] 62/25
rigour [5] 8/8 8/10
14/18 25/1 25/9
ring [1] 81/13
rise [2] 70/2 75/11
risk [13] 70/10 72/4
74/12 75/11 77/14
77/15 82/11 126/24
127/4 135/7 135/22
136/14 161/6
risks [15] 69/22 70/6
70/7 72/7 74/25 75/5
76/19 77/2 78/23 82/1
127/6 134/25 136/13
136/17 136/19
road [1] 178/1
Roberts [6] 33/14
51/7 57/23 57/24 58/3I
62/5
robust [2] 71/15
170/21
role [68] 4/4 4/10
5/23 6/21 6/23 6/25
7/12 8/19 8/21 9/17
(74) reiterated - role
R
role... [58] 9/18 9/25
10/4 10/12 10/13
10/18 11/14 15/1 17/2)
19/21 19/23 20/1 20/4
20/7 22/11 32/16
32/16 39/17 48/18
48/23 49/13 49/20
49/22 50/3 50/20
50/23 51/5 51/9 51/11
51/13 51/13 63/21
74/12 75/21 77/25
78/2 78/19 79/8 98/7
105/21 111/22 112/22)
112/23 112/24 113/21
122/23 123/17 125/25
127/5 130/15 131/7
131/13 137/25 141/3
141/25 143/12 146/14
179/22
roles [28] 2/5 14/20
39/20 46/13 51/4
66/19 66/21 67/16
68/18 69/5 69/9 70/17,
71/12 72/2 72/19
72/21 73/5 74/14 75/2
76/8 85/14 89/11
92/25 126/20 143/2
143/4 143/10 143/14
roll [1] 46/5
rolled [1] 153/23
rollout [3] 150/20
151/4 157/15
room [2] 107/16
155/12
root [1] 136/6
rubber [2] 127/1
127/16
Rule [1] 182/17
run [9] 5/1 5/4 5/21
28/19 43/21 82/21
84/14 153/23 177/2
running [4] 5/18 36/5
61/20 99/10
s
Saf [6] 62/5 62/7 63/7I
63/17 98/13 130/21
said [44] 3/4 16/10
16/11 23/18 26/8
26/15 28/3 29/7 30/20)
31/10 31/24 33/8 34/2
34/14 34/22 35/23
42/14 46/11 46/15
47/2 47/19 50/6 58/23
59/17 65/24 67/15
69/23 90/24 95/5
98/20 99/14 99/17
101/1 106/9 113/7
113/19 116/7 120/25
127/16 136/10 136/11
139/17 139/17 148/6
Sam [1] 93/22
same [21] 13/14 26/8
26/11 31/6 34/14
45/11 45/13 45/19
48/25 114/21 117/24
126/11 126/11 128/14)
133/13 138/22 145/15)
159/25 164/9 178/4
193/17
sanitised [1] 45/24
Sarah [2] 134/11
149/20
satisfaction [1]
102/11
save [3] 93/11 151/3
151/8
saw [8] 20/6 30/5
45/4 56/17 78/2
117/25 125/14 147/4
say [64] 3/19 4/7 6/10
7/6 7/18 7/25 8/2 9/11
10/4 16/16 20/12
25/10 32/2 32/5 32/9
32/14 33/2 33/22 35/6
38/23 52/10 64/5
64/14 65/16 66/1
69/25 72/10 84/25
94/9 98/17 99/21
99/24 101/1 106/12
110/25 113/22 114/20)
114/24 120/18 122/11
134/9 136/3 136/13
140/4 141/24 151/12
163/5 167/11 168/12
174/13 174/19 177/3
182/11 182/12 182/24)
183/11 184/21 185/3
186/5 188/23 191/23
191/24 192/9 192/17
saying [7] 20/8 21/2
65/10 90/10 97/20
100/14 128/19
says [50] 11/2 23/3
24/9 26/19 27/2 27/25
37/16 38/8 40/11
44/13 46/19 50/22
60/4 60/22 63/4 71/6
74/1 75/9 78/17 79/5
80/3 83/8 97/8 97/23
104/3 117/23 122/25
126/2 126/25 130/25
131/3 134/13 135/3
135/13 138/16 138/25
147/8 149/19 157/7
158/17 166/13 166/19)
169/23 170/11 171/1
176/14 179/21 190/5
191/11 191/21
scale [5] 4/10 9/4
86/24 111/24 179/1
scaling [1] 179/5
scandal [4] 7/19
13/23 105/1 186/3
scenario [3] 160/5
175/10 176/19
scenarios [1] 174/9
scheme [10] 84/15
88/4 88/7 88/12 88/13)
88/16 88/23 88/24
148/22 186/7
schemes [7] 73/19
82/14 85/18 87/14
87/17 87/19 87/24
scope [5] 9/17 63/20
91/19 92/5 171/14
scores [1] 145/8
screen [25] 3/15 3/18}
10/22 15/11 17/20
44/8 50/18 52/2 55/19)
55/20 56/14 94/5 94/6
97/6 102/3 114/14
115/13 115/21 118/1
118/6 118/13 122/21
148/15 166/4 187/8
scroll [32] 16/4 24/8
26/3 38/7 46/10 50/20
50/21 56/20 59/9 60/2
63/10 72/20 80/2
92/11 97/6 102/6
114/16 114/19 126/25}
130/25 132/8 133/5
134/13 136/2 153/6
153/20 158/17 163/15}
166/8 169/11 187/12
187/16
scrolling [1] 114/17
scrutinised [1] 53/14
scrutiny [5] 11/9
54/22 75/18 101/2
157/18
search [3] 13/15 20/3
27/18
searched [1] 19/24
second [11] 46/16
57/22 124/20 133/23
137/7 137/21 140/21
151/7 155/10 171/1
175/10
secondly [4] 18/7
97/9 97/10 122/6
seconds [1] 56/5
Secretary [10] 24/22
110/6 110/9 119/11
139/21 179/24 179/24)
180/8 180/9 181/5
section [7] 50/22
153/19 153/20 157/7
169/12 179/20 187/10}
section 12 [1] 187/10
sections [1] 3/17
sector [1] 21/3
security [1] 151/2
security/assurance
[1] 151/2
see [55] 4/20 9/25
10/17 11/22 17/21
18/3 24/8 44/22 45/8
46/11 51/3 52/13 54/1
55/10 56/13 56/22
63/4 65/19 65/21
69/22 70/22 70/23
71/20 72/21 76/23
80/3 80/16 82/1 97/8
113/11 114/18 115/24)
116/1 116/5 121/7
136/25 138/15 139/15)
141/7 141/18 141/20
144/20 145/12 145/14
147/7 156/16 157/4
158/17 169/9 173/11
176/18 178/12 182/4
185/5 187/12
seeing [5] 18/17
71/17 125/9 125/9
174/4
seek [5] 23/7 25/15
54/8 188/16 188/23
seeking [6] 53/5 53/6
161/8 163/17 182/20
188/12
seem [4] 35/10 50/11
138/18 179/13
seemed [3] 13/8
107/16 135/23
seemingly [1] 23/21
seems [7] 18/10 39/9
50/7 101/6 118/14
151/7 152/25
seen [26] 14/14
14/15 17/18 18/17
44/1 44/3 44/9 55/6
57/7 57/11 64/15 69/7,
71/18 102/14 120/13
120/15 141/9 141/14
145/9 147/1 164/5
165/10 166/10 167/15
170/25 172/9
SEG [3] 76/20 79/23
79/24
Select [1] 22/2
selection [3] 32/15
102/13 102/16
self [5] 6/14 14/4
23/19 31/1 182/19
self-explanatory [1]
182/19
self-imposed [1]
23/19
self-initiate [1] 6/14
self-serving [1] 31/1
senior [28] 13/4
25/16 31/8 31/23
31/25 34/10 35/2
35/14 36/14 37/25
38/9 38/14 38/17
38/18 38/20 40/13
53/9 71/22 115/10
143/9 143/12 143/14
143/17 150/12 150/16
151/1 152/15 152/19
seniors [1] 137/25
sense [5] 42/18 68/5
73/22 163/6 182/24
sensible [6] 172/6
17216 174/2 174/2
179/13 184/17
sensitive [2] 122/13
177/11
sensitivity [1] 61/10
sent [5] 22/20 23/1
44/11 184/11 189/14
sentence [3] 69/8
97/10 170/10
sentiment [1] 58/15
separate [6] 77/21
81/15 82/25 135/23
138/21 154/23
September [3] 1/14
3/1 191/6
series [1] 54/1
serious [4] 28/8 54/4
60/5 129/14
seriously [3] 52/24
53/25 57/15
serve [3] 44/17
101/13 144/23
service [7] 21/20
99/10 99/11 112/17
122/10 158/23 161/7
serviced [1] 167/13
services [10] 11/2
11/5 11/15 11/25
109/18 157/11 160/12)
160/14 160/24 160/24I
serving [2] 31/1 49/8
session [5] 45/14
114/25 131/19 152/2
161/22
set [20] 13/21 14/2
55/12 56/21 63/1
67/25 69/18 69/24
73/4 84/7 95/25
101/22 110/1 124/1
133/8 136/2 155/16
157/8 172/14 185/17
set-up [2] 84/7 95/25
sets [2] 26/18 26/25
setting [2] 70/24
153/22
settle [1] 61/16
settled [2] 62/16
158/8
several [10] 27/18
29/21 33/4 34/11
44/22 99/4 105/5
1415/3 152/12 171/14
severity [2] 24/1
150/18
sex [1] 26/21
shall [3] 51/17
107/25 187/15
shape [1] 47/17
share [5] 46/1 46/2
121/5 121/25 132/9
shared [3] 37/17
37/19 97/15
shareholder [12]
(75) role... - shareholder
Ss
shareholder... [12]
19/17 19/18 19/21
20/16 121/13 129/22
132/14 140/18 141/3
141/13 142/9 142/14
shareholders [2]
24/24 124/7
sharing [1] 60/1
she [17] 23/3 23/14
24/9 26/10 26/19
26/25 46/22 62/24
63/1 63/4 64/9 64/9
64/11 73/12 78/21
78/22 119/12
she's [5] 22/2 62/20
64/10 73/19 144/15
sheer [1] 136/23
shocking [1] 44/16
short [13] 51/21
108/3 114/1 128/14
128/16 128/16 128/17)
128/20 128/21 128/23
146/17 164/24 176/25)
short-term [7]
128/14 128/16 128/17)
128/20 128/21 128/23
146/17
shortage [1] 32/6
shortfall [10] 32/17
88/4 188/14 189/4
189/7 189/11 189/13
189/14 189/20 189/23
shortfalls [16] 168/5
170/9 178/25 188/1
188/4 188/10 188/13
188/17 188/19 188/24
190/10 190/13 190/20
191/15 191/19 192/4
shortly [2] 46/13
108/25
should [35] 1/11 3/21
27/3 27/4 28/9 38/20
43/9 47/17 48/24
49/13 67/8 70/14
76/15 77/22 80/16
86/10 87/3 89/2 90/5
94/1 95/22 96/21 97/5
106/2 108/12 136/1
140/4 140/25 147/10
151/22 160/4 176/15
177/17 184/11 186/20}
shouldn't [4] 104/22
106/9 107/3 126/6
show [1] 43/14
shows [1] 130/12
sick [1] 124/17
SID [4] 147/19
side [2] 77/18 96/14
sideways [1] 103/23
signature [3] 1/18
108/19 108/20
signed [1] 119/17
significance [1]
10/23
significant [9] 4/10
10/13 12/11 20/6
75/16 100/3 136/3
138/17 154/6
significantly [2] 21/1
44/18
signposting [1] 41/2
silos [1] 135/24
similar [9] 17/16 21/5
24/6 29/1 57/5 83/1
103/5 118/1 124/24
Simon [12] 72/23
73/3 76/17 82/18
83/10 84/13 84/18
85/21 115/9 157/8
159/1 178/8
simply [5] 39/24
46/24 175/5 175/6
176/21
since [12] 11/3 20/1
36/14 37/7 44/14 47/4
75/15 116/1 124/13
177/4 177/16 185/15
single [1] 136/6
sir [20] 1/5 16/7
31/18 55/24 93/18
105/25 106/1 107/20
107/25 108/5 121/12
164/19 171/4 181/9
181/10 181/12 183/11
193/1 194/8 194/14
Sir Wyn [3] 16/7
121/12 1711/4
sit [5] 56/9 67/16
68/5 68/10 71/3
sitting [2] 70/21
182/1
situation [6] 24/4
61/12 129/12 132/16
166/3 168/24
situations [1] 63/17
size [4] 9/4 35/22
80/19 112/2
SJ [1] 159/8
skills [12] 35/15
112/13 113/5 126/17
131/22 131/24 132/3
132/4 132/4 142/20
153/25 154/19
slides [1] 118/6
slightly [4] 102/5
103/23 114/19 126/2
slow [3] 77/6 77/12
177/25
slowing [1] 70/12
small [1] 102/4
smaller [2] 46/3
80/19
SNOW [1] 134/24
so [319]
social [3] 69/25
132/3 144/21
solid [1] 102/17
solution [4] 39/9
113/2 140/18 174/2
some [78] 11/18 12/4
13/10 15/14 15/14
15/17 15/24 15/24
20/5 23/5 23/18 28/24
29/24 32/20 38/1
41/13 47/16 49/6
50/12 51/10 53/15
54/7 58/16 59/15
62/18 63/7 63/8 63/17
64/21 64/23 65/13
66/10 68/23 71/17
73/23 75/4 84/16 93/2
93/19 99/2 112/10
112/12 123/5 123/5
123/14 128/9 130/17
131/9 135/25 136/13
138/9 139/25 140/2
144/14 144/25 145/10
146/9 147/10 151/24
155/5 161/5 162/10
162/12 163/5 163/12
163/13 165/13 166/4
168/24 171/10 172/25)
174/14 176/10 177/18}
177/23 181/9 185/17
191/12
somebody [8] 21/13
22/9 25/22 55/25 89/2
103/8 142/1 142/13
somehow [1] 162/12
someone [5] 5/22
106/10 106/23 106/25
131/6
something [71] 7/19
8/13 8/14 8/22 8/24
9/24 10/24 18/14
27/11 27/14 39/10
39/12 42/1 44/24
46/14 52/4 55/15
55/16 56/17 57/16
58/9 58/17 58/18
58/25 59/1 62/12
66/13 72/22 80/12
80/14 80/16 92/21
99/9 109/17 111/20
113/1 113/3 113/6
119/1 124/13 124/19
124/24 125/5 125/13
130/16 133/2 133/4
133/24 136/8 136/8
137/13 139/9 139/15
143/23 146/10 146/22
147/7 147/14 151/7
151/10 154/10 154/12)
162/23 163/11 165/19}
172/5 172/22 176/25
177/1 178/6 186/25
sometimes [6] 53/11
53/12 53/12 53/15
54/12 139/13
somewhat [1] 117/16
soon [5] 137/10
156/5 164/15 173/17
183/2
sorry [43] 30/20
30/24 42/7 42/18
43/22 45/16 49/21
55/16 61/5 65/20 66/3)
66/11 67/1 68/18
69/15 69/21 71/1 72/1
75/8 83/17 83/24 87/8
88/23 89/3 94/14 99/5)
99/20 99/24 103/11
106/12 106/13 109/24}
114/19 115/9 121/11
142/25 143/11 143/16}
148/12 153/12 162/25
164/14 186/10
sort [8] 34/8 40/6
43/14 61/14 90/14
103/18 145/1 174/14
sorts [1] 95/22
sounds [2] 52/17
119/2
source [3] 161/23
162/1 162/8
speak [16] 19/8 28/2
45/7 45/22 61/24 70/8)
78/8 81/10 149/22
149/25 150/5 152/4
152/6 152/20 186/19
193/6
speaking [7] 3/7
41/24 62/6 73/19
131/20 152/22 169/3
specialist [4] 2/4 2/7
13/11 27/19
specific [12] 8/13
30/11 43/10 45/3 70/5
82/13 91/24 96/17
107/4 125/8 142/16
151/6
specifically [14] 5/7
13/5 17/10 29/15
30/15 32/2 40/7 59/7
64/19 75/7 90/8 93/13
100/21 124/3
specifications [1]
151/3
specifics [1] 43/22
specify [1] 94/18
speculating [1] 158/7I
speed [6] 35/12
82/21 86/3 178/3
178/9 178/13
speeding [2] 137/7
180/15
spend [3] 10/6 69/7
113/21
spends [1] 142/2
spent [3] 131/8
151/25 178/8
spirit [1] 100/18
SPMP [2] 135/7
158/9
spoke [11] 24/4 62/5
62/7 64/10 72/22 73/3I
99/6 127/22 157/8
159/1 165/1
spoken [7] 84/9
118/24 147/16 180/22)
180/24 181/4 181/5
sponsor [2] 11/1
36/22
sponsored [1] 72/23
spring [1] 117/15
SR [4] 73/1
stability [2] 9/13
13/18
stable [4] 4/21
staff [9] 100/10
150/10 152/15 152/17)
152/19 153/24 154/3
154/7 154/15
staffed [1] 3/12
staffing [1] 73/6
stage [3] 153/5 159/4
184/15
stages [1] 118/3
stakeholder [1]
100/4
stakeholders [2]
63/24 150/12
stamp [3] 127/1
127/6 167/9
stand [1] 91/17
standard [3] 8/6
187/5 187/10
start [17] 3/3 3/25
11/4 37/24 56/25 69/4I
93/25 114/12 114/15
131/21 134/8 141/1
143/6 146/2 172/25
175/20 189/10
started [15] 3/22
13/15 22/10 32/20
34/7 40/8 41/6 67/6
88/8 99/6 101/23
109/4 118/22 128/18
147/18
starting [2] 96/20
107/11
starts [2] 144/11
171/13
state [11] 15/17
24/22 110/7 110/10
116/11 119/11 171/6
179/24 179/24 180/10}
181/5
State's [1] 180/9
statement [57] 1/12
1/13 1/20 1/23 3/4
3/15 6/10 7/4 12/10
13/22 16/10 18/4 18/7I
21/10 29/6 31/24 32/5
34/2 42/13 51/25 52/3}
52/10 54/2 58/11 64/6I
65/16 65/21 66/8
66/12 67/15 85/3
(76) shareholder... - statement
Ss
statement... [26]
93/25 94/1 94/2 96/18
98/18 108/13 108/21
108/24 110/2 113/7
114/14 117/23 119/1
139/17 148/6 166/15
166/20 167/24 168/3
168/20 170/12 171/15}
182/18 184/21 186/19)
193/4
statements [3] 18/1
26/24 172/17
stating [1] 64/11
stats [1] 18/17
status [1] 150/22
Staunton [21] 5/25
6/1 6/6 23/8 24/5 26/4
26/7 28/1 29/7 30/2
30/12 30/13 30/18
30/20 58/12 89/13
89/18 89/21 118/23
147/11 147/16
Staunton's [4] 26/20
31/2 31/3 118/20
stay [3] 45/13 79/9
173/15
SteerCo [1] 150/20
Stein [5] 93/19 93/21
93/22 185/19 194/6
Stein's [1] 107/15
Stent [1] 123/15
step [11] 6/22 41/22
72/2 121/13 144/16
145/1 145/2 145/2
146/20 171/24 182/4
stepped [1] 147/19
stepping [5] 20/13
51/8 51/13 131/14
135/16
steps [10] 27/14
27/16 41/7 57/12
112/19 127/10 145/15)
145/20 146/9 192/9
stick [1] 22/18
stifles [1] 53/13
still [25] 24/24 55/22
57/2 58/3 63/12 64/1
64/20 64/23 64/25
65/2 65/9 65/12 74/16
77/16 81/22 101/6
117/16 152/12 159/8
161/7 164/6 173/11
177/19 180/8 191/18
stock [4] 117/3
167/10 189/13 189/14}
stolen [1] 183/14
stood [1] 78/21
stop [2] 16/6 98/20
stores [1] 2/18
stories [1] 155/13
straightforward [2]
53/19 90/4
strain [4] 38/9 38/11
38/16 38/19
strained [1] 172/13
strand [1] 150/4
strange [1] 168/25
strategic [38] 15/12
17/16 17/17 18/25
36/20 37/18 37/25
97/11 97/12 114/4
117/19 119/13 119/15)
121/10 126/14 127/12)
127/14 131/25 137/9
140/1 140/9 140/18
140/21 140/23 144/17)
145/3 145/21 146/6
146/8 146/21 146/23
154/24 155/24 164/14)
181/18 183/4 183/20
185/8
strategy [17] 118/25
118/25 119/6 120/1
122/1 128/15 128/24
129/2 140/17 141/1
141/17 142/18 142/19)
142/25 154/22 159/4
163/18
strength [1] 96/1
stress [1] 3/23
stretched [1] 131/4
stretches [1] 186/15
strictly [1] 28/22
strong [13] 18/9
23/17 25/1 33/4 42/9
80/14 93/5 98/8 124/8
126/6 126/19 129/9
132/1
stronger [1] 85/11
struck [1] 107/14
structural [2] 35/9
36/3
structure [17] 2/15
2/16 15/14 31/8 34/25)
35/1 35/5 40/5 76/22
77IT 89/22 97/4 100/6
142/18 142/19 142/24)
143/1
structured [4] 6/17
83/18 106/6 139/18
structures [1] 125/17
struggled [1] 148/24
struggling [3] 13/4
87/16 115/9
stuff [1] 130/9
sub [1] 180/21
sub-bullets [1]
180/21
subclauses [1]
188/23
subject [16] 36/2
54/23 58/21 68/21
81/17 82/19 88/23
91/23 122/12 139/3
139/7 139/8 139/12
158/8 163/17 190/4
submissions [2]
185/19 186/18
submit [2] 110/24
110/25
subpostmaster [10]
49/5 50/3 61/24 97/25
103/15 103/17 104/1
130/16 188/11 188/19
subpostmasters [51]
16/8 17/7 17/9 17/17
18/5 18/8 32/12 42/6
49/5 55/5 55/8 57/11
72/5 72/12 82/2 93/1
93/23 97/24 98/3 99/3,
99/18 99/23 99/25
100/7 100/9 100/22
101/7 102/19 103/7
103/17 104/11 104/25}
115/18 117/8 118/15
164/7 164/9 183/22
183/22 184/1 184/2
185/10 185/23 186/2
186/9 186/12 187/6
187/11 190/7 191/18
192/6
subpostmasters' [1]
104/4
subsequent [6] 14/9
58/1 63/23 81/24
157/5 167/24
subsequently [2]
62/4 184/23
substantial [1] 11/5
substantially [2]
35/17 38/10
substantive [3]
108/17 150/4 151/17
succeed [1] 23/20
success [2] 124/11
180/6
successful [2]
102/14 133/8
succession [1]
131/14
successor [1] 131/1
succinctly [1] 38/23
such [16] 27/6 28/5
71/11 77/24 78/18
96/21 98/1 132/5
166/25 167/22 168/3
170/6 173/23 175/19
184/24 186/20
sufficiency [1] 20/19
sufficient [25] 3/20
15/6 37/2 43/25 63/6
64/3 72/4 84/21 84/22
84/22 85/7 85/8 85/8
85/8 91/3 91/5 112/9
118/4 118/17 129/23
133/17 136/22 163/25
166/25 181/2
sufficiently [3] 16/17
17/4 69/2
suggest [3] 8/16 9/4
40/14
suggested [5] 23/10
43/4 47/15 47/18
66/12
suggesting [1] 89/13
suggestion [3] 77/3
89/12 124/8
suggestions [5]
23/17 40/18 127/12
127/19 127/24
suggests [5] 40/21
163/1 166/14 174/12
175/12
suitable [2] 21/17
62/19
suited [1] 133/11
summarise [4] 13/24
27/16 38/21 38/22
summarised [1]
123/25
summary [9] 11/2
63/4 74/21 97/8
123/12 150/2 159/19
180/20 191/10
support [35] 2/18 4/2
11/19 12/17 12/20
13/11 19/2 53/20
84/16 102/14 116/22
118/11 125/3 143/1
144/22 144/22 152/23}
157/11 157/17 157/19
157/23 159/11 159/18}
163/19 165/5 165/12
168/15 170/13 175/23
180/3 181/3 185/23
190/6 190/8 190/16
supported [3] 50/12
50/15 141/24
supporting [5] 85/21
129/18 159/7 163/22
169/5
supportive [1] 181/7
supports [1] 132/2
sure [39] 16/17 16/18
16/19 17/3 29/17 36/7
47/19 49/24 54/9 56/1
62/16 67/19 88/3 91/9)
91/12 91/20 98/13
106/2 106/3 111/19
117/19 118/8 125/23
126/3 131/3 144/1
144/3 151/23 159/7
159/24 168/22 173/6
173/22 175/21 178/19}
182/17 182/23 187/3
189/17
surprise [2] 19/4
58/16
surprised [3] 19/7
19/9 121/18
surprising [6] 40/24
71/20 71/22 117/17
160/16 191/24
surrounding [1]
46/25
survey [16] 36/25
38/4 45/1 45/1 45/11
45/12 45/15 45/16
45/17 45/17 45/22
46/5 46/7 102/7 191/1
192/12
surveys [3] 37/12
44/15 102/10
suspect [1] 8/17
suspend [2] 90/18
90/21
suspended [1] 90/5
suspension [3] 90/11
90/13 90/15
suspensions [1]
90/25
suspicion [1] 176/5
sustainability [1]
134/20
sustainable [1]
113/25
sustained [1] 133/7
switch [1] 56/1
sworn [4] 1/7 108/8
194/2 194/10
sympathetically [1]
186/8
system [47] 43/5
44/1 114/19 115/2
115/5 116/12 116/16
117/2 117/4 117/8
148/8 148/11 148/18
150/11 150/17 153/23}
155/4 155/9 155/18
155/21 156/17 156/21
160/18 162/12 162/13)
162/20 164/9 164/13
164/15 166/21 167/3
167/6 167/12 168/1
169/1 169/2 169/19
170/4 170/5 172/8
173/5 173/10 173/17
173/18 189/22 189/23)
191/13
systems [6] 111/24
112/1 118/6 118/7
155/13 162/8
T
tab [2] 1/12 1/12
tactical [1] 134/15
take [51] 4/13 20/11
20/13 21/12 22/11
23/11 23/18 36/1 40/2I
41/4 42/21 43/19
48/25 51/16 52/21
52/24 53/1 56/6 56/20}
57/15 61/11 61/11
62/18 68/7 72/2 76/21
82/7 83/24 94/1
101/15 104/9 114/9
117/18 119/24 122/17)
134/12 148/16 148/20)
(77) statement... - take
T
take... [13] 149/18
154/4 158/13 161/14
163/2 164/19 166/5
170/15 171/13 190/24
192/9 192/12 193/11
taken [38] 14/9 24/15
24/18 27/14 27/16
36/25 39/11 41/11
56/23 57/13 57/25
58/6 58/18 58/19 59/1
59/3 59/7 63/9 73/5
73/24 76/16 80/13
80/18 80/21 87/7
90/18 90/21 94/20
104/25 105/3 112/19
127/10 131/17 136/9
141/10 159/11 159/14}
190/8
takes [3] 82/7 102/14
179/1
taking [17] 11/18
29/4 36/10 39/12 40/1
42/10 50/3 53/25
74/20 76/15 77/7
81/11 90/12 144/1
162/13 177/25 179/6
talent [2] 20/20 27/21
talk [9] 43/12 49/17
79/3 99/6 100/22
125/12 126/12 179/11
192/14
talked [11] 29/10
65/4 99/4 117/5
117/13 117/14 141/22}
144/14 178/22 180/24}
184/6
talking [9] 18/24
56/11 86/25 87/5
126/12 146/18 146/19)
156/10 178/9
tangible [1] 186/7
targets [1] 15/24
taught [1] 14/4
Taylor [2] 57/1 57/10
team [100] 2/15 4/2
6/22 7/5 7/10 7/11 9/8
12/12 12/16 12/17
14/23 14/24 14/25
15/1 15/16 15/25
17/10 17/11 17/12
19/7 19/9 21/12 25/17)
25/24 27/23 32/25
34/12 34/13 34/21
34/22 37/20 37/22
38/1 39/7 41/1 41/19
41/21 41/24 45/11
47/8 47/14 49/15
50/12 50/16 50/24
57/14 57/23 58/2
68/12 68/13 69/18
70/5 73/21 76/13
77/17 80/19 82/18
82/19 83/21 84/13
84/17 84/18 84/21
85/21 85/22 86/22
92/2 95/25 96/1 96/7
96/8 101/24 115/11
115/12 116/15 117/13)
121/3 124/2 124/18
126/3 126/18 130/4
132/18 138/3 145/7
145/24 146/15 150/1
152/3 156/6 160/7
161/14 162/4 164/12
169/20 178/7 178/12
178/24 179/11 189/6
team's [1] 178/2
team/activity [1]
152/3
teams [8] 15/5 15/8
15/8 46/2 115/1
118/10 132/1 134/10
teamwork [3] 123/23
124/4 129/18
Teamwork/Culture
[1] 123/23
technical [9] 54/12
114/21 114/25 115/10)
117/24 118/10 167/19)
171/18 190/17
technology [7]
112/14 112/15 112/22)
112/24 132/4 155/22
156/2
tell [8] 49/17 50/10
85/11 122/14 146/12
176/15 182/10 182/15)
telling [2] 4/18
147/13
tells [4] 46/24
temporarily [1] 51/8
temporary [1] 113/18
ten [1] 156/10
ten years [1] 156/10
tend [2] 8/23 40/19
tends [1] 128/1
Teneo [8] 120/3
120/4 120/6 120/7
120/16 120/16 121/1
12114
term [13] 114/1
124/17 128/14 128/16)
128/16 128/17 128/20)
128/21 128/23 146/17)
159/5 160/13 163/25
terminals [1] 188/1
terminated [1]
160/14
termination [1]
160/10
terminology [3]
29/14 79/13 79/18
terms [62] 6/7 9/6
10/2 10/2 10/20 14/11
14/18 18/3 18/24
19/20 20/21 24/6
32/17 35/20 38/4 39/4
45/7 48/13 51/1 52/6
53/2 55/5 59/17 63/22,
68/20 69/6 71/6 71/24
75/1 75/6 75/11 85/10
85/12 86/25 89/24
96/10 106/18 110/1
112/3 112/6 112/15
112/16 113/5 114/18
119/25 120/9 122/5
127/5 127/14 127/20
128/2 131/13 136/22
137/12 140/7 142/13
155/1 162/18 163/2
178/18 181/6 187/20
terribly [1] 99/24
Tesco [7] 2/9 2/11
5/9 5/23 47/14 95/8
103/4
test [2] 123/20 169/4
tested [2] 129/13
161/5
testing [1] 151/5
than [30] 4/11 4/21
6/17 13/9 15/13 36/9
47/22 53/11 54/1
54/12 62/24 68/9 72/6
76/15 78/5 87/24 89/2
90/6 90/13 113/9
113/22 117/4 131/1
140/21 142/3 146/4
152/10 155/9 156/2
158/2
thank [85] 1/5 1/9
1/11 1/23 2/11 3/18
19/12 22/17 27/25
29/5 31/7 33/15 42/12
46/8 48/7 48/15 51/15
51/18 51/23 52/9 55/4
56/14 58/5 59/25
60/22 62/9 65/15
66/19 70/15 70/15
72/25 74/23 86/23
92/6 92/18 93/18 94/8
95/12 102/6 103/2
105/23 105/24 107/10}
107/18 107/19 107/20
107/23 108/10 108/12}
111/7 111/16 114/11
114/16 114/16 115/13
125/19 129/7 130/7
133/23 134/4 137/17
139/16 140/12 143/19}
146/25 148/4 164/18
170/6 177/7 180/17
180/22 181/8 183/8
183/11 183/19 184/19}
190/25 192/20 192/24
192/25 193/1 193/3
193/7 193/19 193/20
that [1283]
that I [2] 96/14
141/24
that's [132] 2/6 2/13
2/21 2/24 8/22 9/23
10/19 14/25 16/15
16/23 17/21 18/22
21/5 21/20 25/13
31/19 37/7 39/12 40/2
41/5 42/1 42/1 45/2
46/14 49/13 49/19
49/25 54/11 54/19
55/17 56/15 57/5
57/21 57/21 60/20
65/6 65/23 66/16
66/18 72/3 74/18
74/22 76/4 76/14
79/18 81/16 82/23
83/17 84/6 86/21
87/10 87/12 89/4
91/13 92/8 92/16
94/15 95/12 96/2 96/8
97/3 101/16 101/16
103/8 107/21 108/18
109/8 109/20 110/5
114/9 114/14 115/14
119/8 120/16 121/12
124/19 124/20 125/13
127/20 133/2 133/4
135/13 136/9 136/16
137/12 140/12 141/4
143/15 146/3 146/18
146/20 153/10 155/23
156/3 156/24 158/3
158/14 161/1 161/11
162/9 163/10 164/15
165/17 165/23 165/25
166/2 166/10 168/22
168/23 169/9 170/23
172/1 17215 175/1
17512 17513 175/20
176/7 176/9 17/8
178/10 179/10 182/2
184/17 185/4 187/10
189/5 189/9 189/10
190/17 191/21 192/1
their [49] 14/20 15/1
16/23 21/18 37/22
38/12 39/17 41/25
46/1 46/2 52/24 52/251
53/17 53/17 71/12
77/8 79/8 98/9 101/5
104/13 105/19 109/12
110/15 115/19 116/8
120/10 123/24 129/12
129/13 134/22 135/10
136/2 137/25 139/7
139/9 139/13 139/19
142/2 154/18 158/5
164/7 165/11 184/3
184/6 184/7 185/24
186/2 186/13 191/19
them [43] 17/6 18/17
26/23 34/11 37/16
50/16 61/16 67/8
70/10 71/13 78/8
87/21 88/2 93/8 94/22]
99/8 99/24 100/1
100/2 100/4 100/13
100/25 104/11 105/19)
117/18 117/20 118/11
120/9 120/18 130/22
144/18 158/1 158/2
166/1 168/23 183/23
184/17 185/2 185/19
188/22 189/18 191/16
193/18
them! [1] 83/20
thematic [1] 71/17
theme [2] 63/5 125/9
themes [4] 46/5 71/6
138/5 152/5
themselves [3] 44/10)
116/8 191/17
then [63] 14/4 20/24
28/7 30/1 30/9 31/16
32/18 35/8 41/17
41/18 46/1 46/9 47/7
56/15 62/4 66/18
67/24 69/5 80/2 80/21
81/13 82/10 86/10
88/7 88/13 93/6 94/24I
94/24 94/25 95/18
96/24 97/9 102/12
103/23 109/7 110/2
110/6 110/6 121/7
127/7 135/3 137/14
137/18 138/25 140/8
160/21 161/10 161/21
167/11 170/9 175/21
179/15 182/23 183/17
184/17 187/9 187/11
187/16 188/6 188/25
189/5 191/10 192/18
there [241]
there'll [4] 13/17
there's [45] 10/23
14/22 18/6 18/10
18/23 21/20 26/14
38/22 39/19 39/23
41/17 42/3 42/9 42/14
46/6 46/14 50/22
55/20 55/23 57/22
59/9 82/11 88/3 88/22
91/24 92/6 99/17
102/23 107/13 112/10)
133/15 137/5 153/20
158/24 166/9 171/25
173/9 178/15 178/23
179/19 180/14 180/21
184/8 186/14 190/2
Thereafter [1] 176/18
therefore [16] 26/21
61/12 68/4 73/15
76/12 76/20 77/6
79/16 80/15 89/19
126/4 128/17 138/1
154/8 181/25 191/21
thereof [1] 188/19
these [39] 36/3 54/5
54/8 54/24 55/1 69/6
70/11 71/24 72/16
(78) take... - these
T
these... [30] 74/19
83/1 83/2 102/5 115/7,
115/18 116/25 117/14}
117/18 120/11 122/22
122/23 128/13 136/4
137/17 147/25 150/8
151/11 151/12 151/18
151/18 151/24 170/2
175/22 179/9 187/20
188/23 189/12 189/16
190/15
they [102] 7/13 7/13
7/14 7/15 8/4 8/8
13/10 14/2 14/21
16/18 19/6 19/14
23/24 23/25 27/9 30/2
33/23 33/24 34/3
34/10 34/16 34/16
34/18 36/15 36/17
38/2 38/5 38/14 40/15)
43/9 46/21 53/1 53/17
54/18 54/20 56/8
62/17 63/8 66/24
66/25 68/21 68/24
72/19 75/10 77/10
77/18 79/8 79/9 81/14
81/17 87/3 92/3 98/9
98/25 99/16 99/21
99/21 100/3 105/17
106/8 106/10 113/8
116/7 118/9 120/20
125/23 126/6 128/12
130/3 130/13 130/23
133/11 134/20 135/10}
136/2 136/3 136/21
144/5 144/23 149/17
154/19 163/4 163/9
163/9 165/25 168/23
169/14 169/18 172/16)
174/19 175/21 175/22
176/21 177/2 181/4
183/23 183/24 183/25)
190/19 192/18 193/16
193/17
they're [16] 16/17
18/25 19/1 39/18
41/15 42/25 53/9
54/21 54/21 69/24
90/6 104/1 137/16
154/18 182/12 189/17)
they've [4] 105/9
115/19 122/19 1814/7
thin [1] 124/16
thing [13] 34/14
36/12 40/15 77/5
113/7 118/8 126/15
128/3 146/3 155/3
155/19 178/4 189/15
things [46] 4/20 5/7
33/24 39/1 39/8 39/22
45/19 49/18 63/9
65/10 65/11 72/9
73/14 73/16 91/17
117/2 117/15 119/25
120/10 122/4 127/2
127/15 128/15 135/24}
135/25 139/13 139/25)
140/9 144/13 144/15
146/12 149/3 151/24
154/17 155/13 162/5
163/6 169/3 173/23
177/25 178/3 178/13
178/16 179/9 182/1
185/5
think [336]
thinking [3] 106/24
124/9 154/13
thinned [1] 35/17
third [10] 44/13 74/1
124/21 137/9 138/16
152/19 153/21 154/2
154/5 167/13
this [332]
Thornton [10] 114/6
120/15 137/12 137/19)
139/16 139/23 140/5
140/13 150/7 151/4
thorough [4] 58/21
62/20 91/25 119/13
thoroughly [1] 100/2
those [95] 8/10 9/2
9/14 9/14 9/21 11/24
11/25 13/21 14/10
15/5 15/8 18/2 18/17
19/3 19/4 20/11 25/21
27/1 28/6 28/20 35/16
38/25 41/23 43/8
43/12 43/20 45/19
45/24 46/11 48/21
53/23 54/24 55/14
56/22 57/3 61/15 65/8)
67/14 70/6 72/5 72/9
74/14 75/13 77/15
78/7 78/9 79/4 82/9
85/19 86/2 86/16
88/17 92/24 93/18
95/22 97/7 100/14
103/10 104/8 105/3
105/14 105/18 105/25)
110/22 112/20 116/7
116/8 116/10 117/9
118/1 118/4 118/17
122/15 126/10 129/24)
137/3 139/6 139/25
140/9 140/15 147/12
148/20 153/3 153/4
162/24 163/10 165/5
175/17 177/21 180/8
180/19 181/9 188/21
191/14 193/1
though [10] 18/10
33/2 39/9 58/25 95/13
107/11 127/1 134/7
158/11 180/9
thought [10] 62/22
70/21 87/3 107/16
120/11 140/4 147/20
149/17 155/1 175/8
thread [1] 8/2
three [18] 81/21
91/18 93/14 97/4
97/12 97/21 100/6
105/9 105/10 114/10
114/11 116/4 117/1
123/15 128/20 130/4
156/7 161/15
three-year [1] 97/21
threshold [1] 25/13
through [41] 2/9 14/8
16/4 39/7 45/23 53/20
54/4 54/16 56/21 79/3
98/14 99/2 116/19
116/24 121/8 122/15
122/17 123/5 125/17
134/10 134/12 136/20
137/17 139/21 139/25]
141/23 145/3 146/5
146/20 146/20 147/6
147/19 147/19 148/2
148/16 148/20 149/18}
149/19 163/23 180/6
189/24
thunder [1] 183/14
Thursday [3] 165/14
165/20 169/4
Tidswell [1] 158/20
ties [1] 125/15
time [113] 3/9 3/14
4/24 5/5 5/16 5/25
6/19 7/22 8/3 8/7 8/14
8/17 11/16 11/21 12/7
12/9 12/13 12/15
12/18 12/21 13/2 13/6
13/14 14/17 23/5 24/3}
29/21 30/3 30/16 32/4
33/22 34/13 34/20
34/23 35/11 35/18
35/19 45/11 47/5
47/15 48/1 51/17 54/3
55/3 57/17 58/15
58/24 60/9 60/14 61/6
61/10 61/18 61/19
61/25 62/14 62/19
66/8 66/22 66/24
67/11 68/9 69/8 70/9
70/24 71/14 71/18
72/8 73/13 73/17
73/18 73/21 73/24
77/1 78/4 80/9 80/10
80/12 81/3 81/16 83/1
83/6 84/16 85/6 86/6
87/7 88/5 89/18 89/22
90/16 90/19 90/22
92/16 116/17 118/7
118/7 123/14 125/1
131/8 142/2 147/3
148/17 151/3 151/8
157/4 162/17 163/25
164/19 169/16 170/5
178/8 179/1 182/22
190/20
time/energy [1]
125/1
timeline [1] 40/3
times [7] 33/4 53/20
76/19 77/2 112/2
116/2 119/2
timescale [1] 121/17
timescales [1] 152/9
timetables [1] 23/22
tired [1] 171/12
title [1] 70/17
today [10] 91/17
121/24 130/5 147/2
156/5 163/6 172/25
178/11 184/24 192/7
today's [3] 2/25
46/19 109/21
together [9] 5/11
5/13 46/21 86/9 95/6
95/10 95/11 120/12
135/25
told [14] 3/21 30/18
34/12 34/15 37/7
94/19 111/13 113/19
116/19 148/7 148/21
148/23 169/18 169/20
tomorrow [1] 193/21
too [12] 46/20 80/13
113/14 113/15 131/4
132/20 138/22 144/5
153/17 177/25 188/21
193/5
took [9] 3/6 35/8
98/12 100/2 122/23
145/6 147/18 161/25
191/1
tool [1] 134/24
top [5] 20/20 26/3
78/3 85/19 169/23
topic [5] 23/8 51/15
144/9 148/5 177/8
topics [3] 14/10
149/24 180/25
totally [3] 47/2 54/18
58/11
touch [3] 46/22 48/6
130/14
touch’ [1] 130/12
towards [6] 55/5
63/12 64/1 64/22 78/4,
160/5
toxic [3] 63/12 64/1
64/22
track [2] 148/24
188/3
tracking [1] 161/3
Tracy [1] 51/5
trade [4] 71/10 79/24
111/3 193/13
trade-offs [1] 79/24
trail [1] 193/12
train [1] 113/3
trained [1] 16/18
training [17] 2/9 3/6
13/23 14/5 14/6 14/11
14/12 14/14 14/24
15/5 15/8 27/4 27/7
27/22 32/4 99/10
99/11
transaction [2]
163/13 167/4
transactions [2]
187/18 188/9
transfer [1] 82/8
transferred [1] 81/22
transformation [4]
112/16 112/23 133/7
180/3
transformations [1]
129/16
transient [1] 154/18
transition [3] 76/25
81/20 154/4
transparency [2]
43/25 44/6
transparent [3] 18/21
65/7 170/18
transparent' [1]
40/17
transparently [1]
168/7
travelling [1] 105/4
Treasury [7] 128/1
128/2 128/10 128/13
128/18 128/19 128/22)
treatment [1] 60/13
Tribunal [4] 29/25
30/9 31/11 31/20
trigger [2] 69/11
69/20
troubling [1] 28/6
true [8] 1/20 2/6
30/22 44/21 57/21
72/10 108/21 144/16
truly [1] 146/18
trust [15] 10/17
16/24 18/22 34/4
34/17 36/10 36/12
100/24 124/9 125/2
133/17 133/21 144/6
171/3 177/19
trust/respect [1]
125/2
trusted [1] 96/19
trusting [2] 49/16
64/7
truth [4] 53/5 53/6
65/24 147/13
try [7] 43/14 61/15
61/16 86/24 103/16
145/25 192/10
trying [11] 9/10 15/23]
18/4 38/22 78/4
135/16 142/25 142/25)
162/3 162/6 182/24
Tuesday [1] 1/1
turn [46] 1/13 1/16
(79) these... - turn
T
21/22 22/17 22/22
25/25 26/14 27/1
36/20 37/14 40/10
44/7 55/18 56/15
59/25 62/9 63/3 69/4
69/22 70/15 70/18
71/2 72/16 83/4
116/5 118/12 119/21
140/15 142/12 147/6
148/13 157/2 157/6
158/22 166/7 170/22
179/9 179/19 190/3
124/3 129/20 132/19
133/12
turnarounds [2]
126/6 126/12
turning [1] 56/1
Tutin [3] 21/24 22/24
26/18
two [37] 9/1 18/2
21/6 22/4 23/9 61/13
66/5 66/7 67/5 67/14
68/14 68/20 79/4
89/16 97/7 113/20
116/3 117/14 121/22
122/4 122/15 137/5
146/13 148/1 149/3
150/4 150/8 150/25
151/1 151/1 153/3
155/6 156/7 162/24
174/8 178/3 178/4
tying [1] 155/13
type [2] 46/25 103/5
types [3] 143/4 143/4
143/5
typical [3] 6/11 8/22
9/3
U
UK [5] 2/14 2/17 95/9
111/3 112/1
UKGI [4] 131/20
141/6 141/19 141/25
ultimate [1] 17/13
ultimately [3] 27/21
32/25 68/22
unable [1] 7/24
uncertainty [1] 75/3
uncomfortable [1]
6/7
under [23] 3/12 3/24
7/5 11/2 12/15 22/12
23/15 35/11 36/6
71/21 76/2 97/7 97/10
102/2 102/8 106/10
116/20 125/23 138/15)
147/13 152/22 169/24
192/13
turn... [44] 17/25
108/17 115/14 115/24}
123/19 131/20 140/12)
turnaround [5] 120/8
underlying [1] 125/2
70/3 75/12
underperformance
[1] 32/20
underperforming [1]
33/11
62/24 63/7 63/16
98/1 99/1 101/6
104/19 132/1 135/9
138/9 141/15 142/14
157/22 162/4 162/6
168/8 168/18 168/22
183/17 183/20 184/7
185/7
understandably [2]
53/4 98/5
understanding [29]
3/20 4/23 15/3 30/5
31/17 67/11 67/13
69/13 73/11 87/25
90/20 114/21 117/24
118/17 138/6 151/5
153/25 157/25 158/3
165/22 168/24 169/7
175/17 175/20 176/1
176/7 176/8 178/20
189/3
understood [8] 4/21
5/6 30/6 67/2 89/22
96/6 117/9 161/20
undertake [2] 76/24
173/13
undertaken [5] 29/2
75/15 76/7 167/23
170/19
undervalued [1] 7/6
undoubtedly [1] 33/5
unexplained [5]
115/23 115/25 116/2
118/13 118/16
unhelpful [1] 59/23
unifying [1] 140/16
unions [1] 71/10
unique [1] 1/24
unit [31] 68/17 70/11
73/6 73/16 73/25
75/17 76/2 76/9 76/22
77/7 78/12 79/8 79/15)
79/20 81/14 81/15
81/25 82/9 82/13
82/17 83/18 84/8
84/21 84/25 85/7
85/23 86/12 87/2
87/14 87/18 89/19
universe [4] 134/17
134/19 135/7 135/20
undermining [3] 70/1
understand [41] 9/10
12/2 12/2 14/20 33/23
66/20 67/1 67/3 67/13
75/24 86/24 95/2 96/4
142/24 147/21 151/23)
172/19 178/14 183/17)
understands [1] 18/8
universes [1] 135/5
unless [2] 23/11
103/17
unlikely [1] 157/19
unreasonably [1]
74/12
unreliable [1] 169/19
unstructured [1]
6/16
unsure [1] 152/12
unsurprisingly [1]
7/16
until [8] 5/17 6/5
29/25 45/4 56/5
untrue [1] 47/2
untypical [1] 31/25
unusual [3] 142/8
143/15 143/16
unusually [1] 106/6
up [62] 2/22 3/15
6/22 15/10 17/20
44/8 46/5 46/24 48/5
67/25 69/18 70/24
77/23 78/18 84/7
95/25 97/17 101/22
102/12 113/2 114/13
117/20 121/4 122/23
124/1 127/17 128/4
128/8 133/8 137/7
150/5 152/1 152/4
152/6 152/20 152/22
155/16 159/20 163/18}
172/5 174/1 178/3
178/9 178/13 180/15
181/22 190/3
update [6] 91/14
133/24 151/17 154/10
158/24 171/20
updates [1] 63/6
upon [4] 4/9 23/24
101/3 134/24
upper [1] 20/25
upset [1] 75/3
upward [1] 150/15
upwards [2] 125/16
150/19
urgent [1] 3/25
URN [1] 108/24
us [69] 2/7 3/7 7/7
16/20 17/6 29/8 32/1
34/5 36/23 37/21 38/3
38/21 40/23 40/25
41/1 46/24 47/8 49/17
49/17 50/25 52/18
56/7 61/4 65/18 65/25
70/19 70/23 72/13
77/3 78/10 79/3 80/8
83/16 83/22 85/11
unspecified [1] 95/18}
163/20 192/18 193/23
24/19 26/3 28/2 35/12
50/18 51/8 51/13 52/2)
52/9 54/18 56/5 65/19
148/15 149/22 149/25)
91/2 91/16 95/2 98/1
112/19 115/7 117/17
119/2 120/12 125/7
127/3 129/1 130/5
134/5 138/6 139/19
160/20 161/24 164/2
166/1 169/2 176/14
176/15 178/17 179/8
180/12 184/9 192/16
us an [1] 178/17
use [9] 29/13 88/17
90/15 102/5 152/20
162/23 164/8 173/5
191/16
used [3] 97/25
168/13 173/11
useful [4] 130/17
147/20 150/2 154/25
users [1] 167/10
162/20 164/9 187/19
154/9
utilise [1] 104/20
Vv
vacancies [1] 47/13
vacancy [1] 11/12
validate [1] 74/3
value [2] 25/13
144/21
values [3] 54/10 59/6
145/19
variety [2] 129/8
152/6
various [8] 87/17
109/11 129/4 144/3
144/10 152/5 177/20
184/3
vast [2] 71/10 147/24
verbatim [2] 46/4
46/4
version [2] 46/17
121/5
versus [2] 139/1
141/4
very [88] 1/11 1/23
3/12 6/2 7/8 7/10 7/15)
10/13 10/14 12/18
12/23 15/14 17/11
18/8 21/21 28/6 36/12}
37/5 39/17 41/1 41/4
45/5 45/14 45/23
47/16 48/7 49/15
49/15 50/6 53/6 54/4
55/3 55/3 57/15 58/21
60/5 61/5 61/19 61/22
62/7 62/20 62/21
62/25 71/23 76/11
78/3 79/14 82/6 83/1
86/21 95/7 98/7 98/10
101/11 102/3 103/17
140/23 142/22 149/23)
149/25 150/22 160/15}
using [5] 116/8 117/8I
usual [3] 78/14 131/6
105/20 107/23 107/24I
108/12 112/10 116/13}
116/13 116/14 119/5
120/9 120/23 120/23
134/9 137/2 137/13
147/13 147/4 148/2
149/13 152/15 158/19)
172/19 172/20 174/4
179/1 179/8 179/8
181/6 181/7 181/25
193/5 193/19
via [1] 152/4
view [45] 10/12 12/1
14/16 16/11 20/19
21/4 21/8 21/18 24/20)
26/11 28/2 29/12
30/25 31/1 31/5 31/6
32/11 33/10 44/4
48/10 58/24 59/12
59/22 80/8 80/10
80/12 80/14 80/15
89/14 90/5 90/10
122/19 130/15 132/23)
135/1 135/25 141/25
144/24 147/12 156/7
171/22 172/9 172/10
172/14 181/41
viewed [1] 101/6
views [7] 28/5 43/16
71/9 123/9 126/9
127/3 139/9
virtual [3] 105/8
105/9 113/17
virtually [1] 123/13
vis [2] 84/5 84/5
vis a vis [1] 84/5
visibility [1] 4/12
vital [1] 130/20
vocation [1] 2/10
voice [2] 43/16
183/16
volatility [1] 84/10
volume [2] 13/13
136/23
voluntary [2] 34/9
81/12
vote [1] 80/7
voted [2] 80/4 80/5
voting [2] 59/19
79/25
Ww
wait [2] 65/19 140/9
waive [1] 151/2
Walton [1] 171/17
want [34] 3/3 9/17
21/16 21/17 21/19
22/4 25/20 26/2 31/9
41/14 56/7 56/8 81/19)
98/22 99/13 100/18
116/23 117/6 127/13
128/12 132/9 160/7
163/12 174/9 174/20
174/21 176/2 182/21
(80) turn... - want
Ww
want... [6] 184/9
184/19 185/21 187/5
189/15 189/16
wanted [9] 37/25
53/16 96/4 96/4 104/3,
119/12 127/15 157/25}
183/25
wants [2] 50/14
121/7
warrants [1] 124/12
was [390]
wasn't [36] 6/11 6/18
8/10 12/13 15/19 22/8
32/10 32/10 33/21
35/18 35/23 45/4
47/15 48/5 50/10
58/11 65/16 66/9
66/15 66/17 67/11
70/9 70/24 70/25
71/23 79/13 80/15
89/20 89/23 90/19
92/10 92/16 92/17
118/12 127/23 157/21
way [31] 1/25 14/8
15/15 22/12 39/21
47/16 49/6 50/12
53/23 54/4 63/18
83/17 86/8 101/5
106/24 109/1 125/9
127/8 131/9 140/4
145/18 145/19 156/25)
164/16 172/24 178/5
179/5 179/6 181/17
192/13 192/13
ways [3] 49/4 178/15
185/12
we [437]
we'd [4] 12/15 45/19
61/16 96/15
we'll [23] 11/22 46/12!
54/23 69/5 81/13
87/15 89/4 117/22
123/5 126/17 131/11
137/17 137/18 140/10
141/13 143/6 155/11
156/7 156/14 157/4
173/6 174/13 179/3
we're [50] 1/5 13/13
22/1 22/3 22/17 25/25
26/2 33/9 40/4 40/6
40/8 41/13 46/17
53/25 54/3 54/14 60/1
69/4 78/12 81/11
82/17 86/12 86/14
90/14 91/9 98/18 99/2
99/10 100/23 104/17
107/13 108/5 112/17
112/21 114/4 117/19
117/20 126/12 127/16
133/4 139/25 140/8
142/20 155/4 156/3
156/20 163/2 163/5
192/12 192/19
we've [54] 7/2 9/24
20/12 20/18 21/25
40/7 41/23 43/6 45/23
45/25 51/7 54/7 55/5
58/22 64/15 70/19
81/15 85/24 86/5
88/11 89/1 89/12
98/20 99/3 99/4 99/6
99/8 102/1 112/12
112/21 117/5 117/13
119/17 119/19 120/13)
120/14 120/21 120/22)
126/16 128/7 128/9
133/13 137/2 141/4
145/8 147/1 148/7
164/5 166/10 170/25
172/24 183/11 184/24)
192/12
website [2] 1/25
108/25
Wednesday [1] 41/9
week [12] 5/14 47/12
62/2 62/8 113/20
113/22 113/23 113/24)
119/17 121/22 179/24)
191/4
weekend [1] 62/5
weekly [1] 41/12
weeks [4] 41/18
46/23 135/15 181/16
well [58] 3/12 5/9
5/20 9/22 12/13 13/11
13/13 21/21 23/19
25/2 26/22 34/11
35/22 39/21 41/23
42/4 46/21 49/9 54/23
62/22 63/20 72/14
73/19 78/3 83/19
85/23 107/23 109/17
111/10 111/23 117/13)
118/5 120/18 124/1
127/4 130/4 132/25
133/11 137/1 137/5
142/24 143/23 148/24)
159/20 162/14 163/41
165/8 166/2 167/1
176/7 178/19 182/3
182/15 183/14 187/3
191/21 192/12 192/20)
wellbeing [5] 30/21
38/12 41/15 61/20
TAI9
went [4] 8/14 37/6
147/19 166/1
were [144] 3/12 3/24
4/21 5/7 5/11 7/5 7/13
7/14 7/14 7/15 7/24
8/5 8/5 8/11 9/12 9/13)
9/14 9/15 13/4 22/6
23/22 23/24 24/1
25/21 26/12 26/20
28/4 28/6 29/21 30/1
30/6 32/8 34/11 34/16
35/9 35/18 35/19 38/2
38/3 38/5 42/23 44/20
45/12 47/13 53/17
56/21 57/4 58/14
60/14 60/15 60/16
61/9 61/12 61/13
61/19 62/16 62/17
66/24 66/25 67/24
68/2 70/12 71/21
71/24 73/13 73/16
74/20 75/10 75/10
75/20 76/1 76/13 77/5
77/14 77/15 77/18
81/3 81/7 84/2 84/4
84/12 84/13 91/23
92/21 99/16 101/21
107/7 109/23 110/2
110/6 110/12 110/15
113/4 113/5 113/19
115/18 118/21 120/4
123/15 124/3 124/23
124/25 127/12 127/19!
128/22 129/25 134/20
135/10 135/17 135/17]
135/23 135/24 136/21
139/6 139/7 148/18
148/21 149/3 149/7
149/11 149/16 150/10
152/9 155/6 155/6
155/7 157/5 157/16
157/22 158/14 159/3
160/9 160/11 160/12
160/13 160/16 160/25}
162/3 169/18 183/23
186/17 190/1 191/8
191/8
weren't [4] 33/24
34/18 54/18 106/8
what [160] 2/7 4/25
5/10 5/18 5/25 6/11
8/1 11/14 13/24 14/7
14/16 15/11 16/14
18/20 19/21 20/6
20/19 21/1 21/8 22/13)
25/18 30/5 30/19
30/23 30/25 31/5
31/10 32/14 34/14
35/9 36/17 37/6 37/7
37/22 38/21 39/18
40/25 44/1 44/3 48/9
51/17 52/19 53/11
56/16 56/23 56/23
60/8 61/4 63/21 64/11
65/18 65/24 65/25
66/17 67/2 69/15
73/19 76/12 77/3 80/8
80/20 82/15 82/20
83/16 84/14 86/2
86/12 86/25 88/3 90/5)
93/2 94/19 97/20
101/13 102/14 111/16
112/19 115/5 116/23
116/23 117/17 119/2
119/8 121/16 122/7
122/14 126/9 126/12
126/19 127/19 127/25}
128/1 128/2 128/8
128/23 129/6 131/22
132/9 132/23 135/4
135/13 135/17 135/21
137/2 137/14 138/12
139/20 140/4 140/23
141/6 141/21 142/22
142/24 143/2 143/4
143/4 143/5 144/20
144/24 146/18 146/19}
147/21 147/24 148/8
148/21 151/12 155/19}
155/20 156/1 156/3
156/7 156/16 157/22
159/9 161/23 162/4
162/7 162/9 163/4
163/4 164/2 165/4
172/9 173/1 174/1
174/21 176/15 178/17I
181/1 182/2 182/11
182/17 182/21 182/24}
186/1 186/7 191/21
191/25 192/5 192/9
what's [12] 12/4
24/20 59/12 73/9 75/5
89/14 105/18 151/23
161/24 162/24 172/14}
189/7
whatever [2] 176/21
182/12
when [57] 3/17 5/19
7/18 9/7 12/23 15/18
19/25 25/10 26/12
30/8 33/23 34/7 36/9
52/5 53/6 53/8 54/1
54/20 58/13 60/13
67/4 71/24 88/7 90/11
94/11 102/5 102/17
110/15 111/11 113/8
114/2 114/5 118/22
119/4 123/8 124/16
126/6 126/11 136/13
142/8 145/3 145/6
145/10 147/16 149/20
154/16 156/4 156/9
157/12 159/13 160/17,
165/21 167/9 171/15
171/24 178/23 184/9
where [44] 4/16 5/14
9/15 9/25 17/25 23/20
24/24 25/4 26/10 27/9
32/8 41/11 43/14
50/23 56/1 67/21
70/11 74/11 81/13
81/20 81/21 90/15
96/9 97/8 97/23 99/4
105/7 106/4 106/7
110/22 119/25 127/12
130/3 138/22 141/15
146/1 155/4 159/4
175/22 176/2 177/15
180/18 189/4 189/11
whereas [1] 149/7
whereby [1] 128/10
whether [42] 18/25
19/1 27/3 28/11 35/5
37/2 45/7 47/19 51/1
54/21 56/11 56/22
70/19 90/5 91/2 91/20)
100/16 102/4 110/25
111/11 122/19 124/23}
128/19 138/7 151/13
159/24 160/4 160/9
160/19 161/11 175/15)
175/19 176/4 176/10
181/1 183/24 185/7
185/8 185/21 185/22
188/14 190/9
which [72] 2/10 2/17
10/25 14/6 20/23
23/23 25/15 27/20
28/3 28/13 33/16
35/10 38/15 39/18
45/14 49/4 52/12
52/15 52/22 53/23
55/12 60/6 60/13
62/22 65/4 68/2 73/4
73/24 80/22 81/18
87/14 90/14 91/25
94/1 95/16 96/25
97/19 109/18 127/17
128/18 128/20 130/24)
134/11 140/1 141/21
144/4 144/17 145/8
148/1 150/1 153/24
154/20 155/9 156/12
156/21 157/8 158/14
165/16 167/7 167/15
167/25 171/4 173/10
174/11 174/16 175/12
176/24 180/1 180/18
181/18 182/17 185/7
while [11] 25/25
55/24 74/4 78/21 90/6
157/16 159/22 170/15)
171/14 182/1 182/24
whilst [10] 4/2 17/1
32/4 32/5 38/14 38/17
82/5 83/8 83/9 100/21
whistleblower [1]
66/10
whistleblowers [1]
44/10
whistleblowing [7]
28/14 66/6 66/7
103/23 103/25 104/4
104/12
who [72] 3/10 6/19
8/5 9/21 11/20 11/24
20/11 20/13 25/10
27/20 27/21 32/23
33/10 33/11 33/13
34/16 35/3 37/21 44/9I
46/11 46/20 47/21
49/7 49/20 49/22
49/24 51/4 51/12 54/7)
(81) want... - who
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who... [43] 57/3
57/11 61/9 68/25
71/11 74/15 74/16
75/20 76/1 77/15
84/17 87/1 88/17
92/12 92/19 92/24
93/1 93/9 100/11
100/12 103/15 106/8
106/17 115/7 116/7
117/5 123/16 126/8
127/21 130/5 131/3
131/6 132/25 139/6
139/20 142/1 147/12
171/13 178/24 179/11
185/17 191/11 191/14
Who's [1] 40/1
whole [9] 43/13
45/14 96/8 101/24
122/3 143/24 154/21
178/21 180/25
wholeheartedly [1]
107/9
wholesale [1] 146/5
whose [2] 17/7 186/3
why [26] 3/7 6/4
11/24 63/9 63/16
67/21 68/1 69/11
69/19 80/22 84/7
91/12 110/12 110/13
120/6 120/16 136/18
149/5 151/25 154/20
161/2 165/25 176/24
177/12 178/14 183/25
wide [2] 140/17
170/20
widened [2] 102/4
186/6
wider [7] 12/12 20/22
34/3 64/20 178/23
185/9 185/18
wielded [1] 58/9
will [83] 1/24 11/23
16/12 20/12 20/13
20/15 21/15 24/10
27/22 28/18 41/7 44/9
52/12 63/18 64/7
71/12 81/14 81/20
82/9 85/20 94/6 99/7
102/15 102/16 104/4
104/13 106/4 108/25
111/12 114/2 116/23
121/5 126/7 126/19
127/8 127/9 128/1
129/4 131/6 131/8
131/16 131/16 141/11
143/1 143/5 144/19
145/2 145/2 146/5
146/19 152/2 155/12
156/5 156/14 162/12
168/5 168/11 168/15
168/20 168/23 169/4
170/3 170/6 171/4
171/6 173/21 174/16
175/3 177/22 177/23
182/8 182/16 184/9
186/5 187/3 188/7
188/23 189/23 190/6
190/7 191/10 193/17
193/18
Williams [6] 23/21
106/1 177/3 181/12
194/8 194/14
Willow2 [3] 149/21
150/3 152/13
Wilson [1] 92/15
wish [7] 23/23 24/10
78/22 97/17 130/16
171/7 171/11
within [50] 15/21
16/12 19/15 27/12
27/13 28/20 33/16
38/5 39/18 44/2 44/17
44/24 45/2 46/23
63/13 64/2 65/13
66/13 67/16 67/21
75/1 76/22 77/17
81/25 83/14 83/20
86/9 90/7 91/7 94/2
98/1 101/4 103/9
104/24 113/13 114/7
117/9 119/23 124/9
135/20 136/19 139/6
156/6 159/5 162/20
163/25 177/11 180/19)
186/13 187/25
without [5] 4/4 28/15
153/13 157/19 190/15)
WITN11360100 [5]
1/24 3/16 52/3 65/23
94/2
WITN11390100 [2]
108/24 114/14
witness [33] 1/12
1/23 3/15 6/10 7/3
16/10 29/6 31/24
42/13 51/25 52/9
65/15 65/21 66/12
67/15 88/6 88/10
95/21 104/6 104/10
108/13 108/24 110/2
113/7 114/14 117/23
119/1 166/15 166/20
167/24 168/20 182/1
193/3
witnesses [5] 11/22
69/24 71/6 125/11
166/6
Wolfenden [2]
100/10 100/15
women [2] 26/7
26/12
won't [9] 31/16
103/25 147/6 156/13
166/5 170/25 177/25
182/9 182/15
wonder [1] 70/18
Woodley [7] 35/3
61/10 67/23 161/14
169/9 169/10 170/10
word [3] 83/8 88/17
97/25
words [3] 26/9 52/18
54/1
work [86] 3/25 4/17
5/13 10/7 13/12 15/15
15/22 16/20 18/10
18/18 18/23 26/22
31/20 38/1 39/23 40/4
40/16 40/18 41/5 41/6
42/17 48/25 57/20
63/1 67/12 67/25
69/12 69/14 70/1 70/4
71/8 72/3 72/23 73/23
73/24 75/13 75/17
76/2 76/7 76/25 77/9
81/22 90/7 94/25
96/20 97/14 97/23
98/2 98/6 98/8 98/14
98/19 98/20 99/2
100/19 100/23 101/9
102/2 104/17 107/11
110/15 113/9 116/23
120/17 120/20 127/7
127/8 131/9 132/2
136/1 137/7 140/25
142/1 142/6 142/11
144/4 149/21 163/9
168/8 171/12 177/11
178/12 181/21 186/24
191/25 192/16
worked [18] 2/11 5/9
5/11 8/21 9/1 46/21
68/3 79/7 92/19 95/3
95/6 95/9 109/7 120/7
120/18 121/3 134/10
134/12
workers [2] 84/6 84/6
workforce [2] 73/15
76/12
working [31] 4/12 5/7I
47/15 50/2 56/3 56/4
56/5 74/16 78/12
82/17 86/9 87/1 92/25)
93/8 93/9 101/21
109/4 113/13 133/4
139/21 139/25 141/23
145/24 154/15 154/17
160/4 169/3 172/4
174/2 177/13 185/13
workload [5] 73/14
73/21 74/7 76/12
114/2
workplace [2] 28/5
28/12
works [7] 10/7 48/16
48/18 48/21 142/8
172/22 178/7
workshop [1] 171/19
workshops [1]
171/14
workstream [1]
180/13
workstreams [1]
180/2
worried [1] 65/9
worry [1] 61/17
worryingly [1]
191/15
worsening [1] 44/18
worthwhile [2] 15/4
15/7
would [143] 4/17 5/5
6/14 6/17 6/20 6/24
7/11 8/2 8/6 8/16 8/19)
9/3 9/11 10/4 12/25
12/25 15/4 16/16 17/7,
17/11 18/11 18/13
19/9 20/2 20/3 20/4
20/8 20/11 20/25
21/10 21/12 21/15
21/16 21/16 23/11
23/17 24/18 24/18
24/24 25/18 28/23
32/2 32/9 32/14 32/24,
33/2 35/6 35/7 36/17
37/6 39/3 40/15 43/19
47/1 47/16 47/20 48/2)
50/10 50/15 55/14
59/22 59/24 60/7
60/19 60/23 61/11
62/19 62/24 64/5
64/12 65/21 68/4
68/10 70/12 74/2 76/9)
76/23 77/1 77/16
77/24 78/18 78/22
78/25 79/5 79/6 79/6
79/8 79/9 79/9 79/10
79/16 85/3 90/15
90/22 93/7 96/11
96/11 96/11 96/14
98/14 100/19 103/1
103/1 104/11 104/16
104/17 120/11 123/10}
130/16 132/5 132/9
135/24 137/3 145/22
146/8 154/25 159/6
159/9 159/12 159/13
160/12 160/23 163/10)
166/15 166/22 167/17,
170/13 170/19 173/4
175/7 175/8 175/18
175/21 175/22 176/3
179/13 181/17 181/18
182/7 182/10 185/4
186/24 193/17
wouldn't [11] 4/18
6/24 8/20 9/3 48/4
48/4 60/18 60/18
107/8 107/9 177/3
writing [2] 66/8 179/7I
written [2] 47/11
185/18
wrong [7] 76/6 80/24
103/18 142/6 155/7
162/21 189/14
wrongdoing [3]
91/24 93/6 93/13
wrongs [1] 16/19
wrote [2] 47/18 190/4)
Wyn [7] 16/7 106/41
121/12 171/4 181/12
194/8 194/14
Y
yeah [9] 42/18 67/25
88/25 103/20 105/15
106/16 159/20 162/1
176/8
year [43] 1/14 32/22
33/3 36/21 37/1 37/24I
42/23 48/6 56/18
67/20 72/18 83/3
84/20 85/6 91/10
91/11 97/1 97/4 97/19I
97/21 100/6 108/15
109/23 109/24 110/3
111/15 134/1 148/14
149/23 151/15 152/7
159/2 159/8 160/17
161/15 161/15 163/17
165/17 171/15 171/16)
171/20 179/16 185/15)
years [21] 2/8 46/22
47/3 47/21 95/2 95/5
96/12 119/8 120/13
122/18 123/18 156/10)
156/10 159/13 159/21
159/25 161/3 163/18
165/3 173/9 173/16
years’ [1] 2/4
yes [213]
yesterday [1] 123/8
yet [8] 31/17 75/21
111/11 131/19 157/16)
161/7 177/21 178/1
you [580]
you'd [2] 60/11
140/22
you'll [2] 47/20 95/8
you're [20] 18/14
43/1 45/7 55/15 65/18)
65/25 93/14 95/15
95/15 111/16 115/15
121/25 129/2 143/22
165/17 176/23 181/24)
182/1 185/21 192/9
you've [40] 7/3 7/4
7/24 13/19 13/20
13/21 15/6 16/10
16/11 31/25 33/8
33/15 34/22 44/1
51/10 57/24 59/17
67/15 95/5 97/22
103/2 103/15 105/3
106/14 106/17 106/23)
110/1 118/22 120/25
120/25 139/17 139/17
147/14 148/6 161/12
(82) who... - you've
Y
you've... [5] 177/4
181/15 183/12 185/14}
190/3
YouGov [6] 17/20
45/16 115/13 115/16
164/5 191/1
Young [2] 120/15
122/25
your [139] 1/9 1/18
1/21 3/3 3/4 3/15 4/25
5/10 5/18 6/1 6/10 7/2
7/3 9/17 9/18 9/25
10/3 11/14 12/1 13/20)
13/22 14/16 16/10
16/11 19/15 20/19
21/8 24/20 27/12
28/20 29/6 29/8 30/5
30/25 31/5 31/24
33/10 33/16 34/2
42/13 43/23 44/24
48/9 51/10 51/25 52/3)
52/9 56/22 59/12
59/22 64/10 65/15
65/21 66/12 67/15
67/16 67/21 80/8 85/3
85/4 89/14 90/5 93/25
94/1 94/2 103/5 103/8
103/18 105/7 107/23
108/10 108/18 108/21
110/1 110/1 111/5
111/17 111/17 113/7
114/14 117/23 118/20)
119/1 121/16 122/19
122/23 123/20 126/9
127/3 128/12 130/15
130/19 132/23 134/1
134/2 137/19 138/6
139/17 141/25 142/12)
144/24 145/20 147/3
148/6 157/3 158/15
159/15 165/20 166/11
167/5 168/4 168/10
168/12 169/6 170/12
171/8 171/15 171/22
172/9 172/14 175/18
176/2 176/7 179/21
181/1 181/13 181/17
181/18 182/9 182/19
183/1 183/14 184/21
185/1 186/19 192/4
192/20 193/3 193/4
yourself [3] 3/6
145/12 145/14
r4
Zarin [1] 123/15
Zdravko [1] 152/15
(83) you've... - Zdravko