POL00044368
POL00044368
Record of Tape
Recorded Interview
Person Interviewed Oyeteju Adedayo (OA) Exhibit No:
Number of pages: 9
Place of Interview Rainham Road SPOB
Signature of interviewing
officer producing exhibit
Date of Interview 5 September 2005
Time commenced 14.18 Time concluded 15.01
Duration of interview 43 Minutes Tape reference no 066311
Interviewing Officer(s) I Natasha Bernard (NB) Adrian Morris (AM)
Other persons present
Tape Person Text
counter speaking
times
00.00 NB makes general introductions.
NB states she would like to ask questions regarding the audit shortage of
00.42 approximately £53k at Rainham Road Post Office.
OA confirms name, date of birth and her address.
01.50 FULL CAUTION GIVEN & EXPLAINED.
LEGAL RIGHTS EXPLAINED. FORMS CS001 AND CS003 COMPLETED.
SOLICITOR/POST OFFICE FRIEND NOT REQUIRED AT THIS TIME.
NB recaps over the events leading up to the interview.
08.18 OA confirms no questions have been asked.
OA states that she has worked for the Post Office for six years and applied as a
result of buying the property in which the post office is located. OA confirms that
she has no outstanding mortgage on either the business or the flat above the
post office. She confirms that the property was bought in 1999 but the freehold
was bought in 2001. OA explains that after selling her property in Berkshire she
stayed at the flat above the post office with her husband and three dependants.
14.15 As the flat was too small to accommodate the family she approached the bank
that agreed to lend her the money to purchase her house in Kent.
OA states that Joan, the Sub Office Assistant, works in the office for the majority
of the time. OA states that she generally works on a Saturday and covers for
12.38 Joan for any appointments that she has. OA states that she received two weeks
training for her role and that she is confident using the Horizon system. OA
8015 Version 3.0 11/02
POL00044368
POL00044368
Record of Tape Recorded Interview (continued)
Tape Person Text
counter speaking
times
states that she completes the balancing with Joan on a Wednesday and signs
14.14 the cash account herself.
OA states that the house in Berkshire was sold for £125k and that the house in
Chatham was bought for £225k. She explains that she paid £100k for the flat
and the business at Rainham Road.
OA states that during the week Joan declares the cash.
16.12 NB Ok well obviously the reason why we're here is because there's a discrepancy let
me just find the cash figure, of £53k, I can’t remember the rest, it's about
£53,200.00, I'll be able to get the exact figure. This morning when the Auditor
came in you gave him a note. I've got that note here in front of me can you read
it out for me please.
16.59 OA reads out the note.
OA agrees that she wrote and signed the note and that the Auditor, Deepak
Valani, witnessed the note.
NB Well what I want to do now is to give you an opportunity to explain the shortage
that we have in the Post Office accounts.
OA Unfortunately I owe some people at the early stages of the buying you
understand
NB Sorry
OA At the early stages of the buying
NB Buying of
17.55 OA The actual business you understand. And they wanted their money obviously
start plastering repossession or whatever on the door or whatever and I didn’t
want all that with people coming and neighbours and everything. I spoke to them
I said I will get the money all I need to do is ask for a mortgage, remortgage I will
give you your money I'm happy to go but it got quite nasty regarding the process
that he wants his money so I came to Joan and she saw it and I came to her and
18.43 said I am in a state here because it's a case of everybody knowing my business
in the street I said we need to do something, I need to do something and I
explained what has happened because normally I don't touch the post office
money at all she is straight as well very, between us we don't do it you
understand and she is a good worker in all honesty but she knew I was in trouble
she saw it so she said oh I said if I give them ten maybe they will give me time to
re finance the property and give them their money with obviously post office
CSO1SA Version 3.0 11/02
POL00044368
POL00044368
Record of Tape Recorded Interview (continued)
Tape Person Text
counter speaking
times
getting the ten. In fact this situation wouldn't have got to this level because I
19.30 nearly, nearly spoke to the, my initial retail network manager, because I don't
steal, period I do not take anything. I mean we've rescued so many books here
for the post office and that is why I don't work there unless there is an
emergency you understand.
NB Right
OA Well this came up and she saw how distressed I was so it was a case of Ok if I
give them that ten re apply for a re mortgage because there's no mortgage really
20.04 on the property and right now it's worth well over £200k compared to when we
bought it. So I said let me if I do that and she and we met on the matter and they
came again and they said well the time they've given me has run out they want
their money, you understand and at that point I said to Joan again because
everything I did not just go in there take it and get rid of her or try to cover
evidences the only thing I covered is that I did not really call somebody to say I
20.40 have a problem here you understand and I said, she said to me ok what do you
want to do. I said the only thing I can do is ask them what can be of assistance
for me now rather than them embarrass me in the whole of the street regarding
the money I borrowed off them. At that point I said if I offer you £20k can you
give me time I've got commercial mortgages that people have, I've applied to.
This would not even have been noticed.
NB Ok
OA In all honesty but people I’ve applied to ask for the mortgage for remortgage so
that I can put the money back it wasn't intention doing it at all. So I gave them
21.27 the twenty thousand at that point again
NB And when was that
OA It was over a period of time
NB Yes but when
OA I would say, everything came to a head in the last couple of months
NB So when did you give them this twenty thousand
OA I gave them round about, I would say about June or July
21.53 NB Did you get a receipt
OA No
NB So you've given twenty thousand pounds and you didn't get a receipt
OA I didn't because as far as I know I owe it to them at the early stages because
CSO1SA Version 3.0 11/02
POL00044368
POL00044368
Record of Tape Recorded Interview (continued)
Tape Person Text
counter speaking
times
when we were going to but this as lease we bought it for £54k you understand
£55k stock was £11k which we managed to find but I knew that I owe that money
to them.
22.20 NB Right who's them? Who's the people that you are taking about?
OA They are people we know they are family/friends
NB Friends and family
OA Yes and that is the honest truth I wouldn't lie about it. I owe it to them. If I'd
have been able to re mortgage and they'd given me time I wouldn't have
touched. We've always sent back money because we are self-sufficient; we've
always, always sent back money to the post office, every time. Even here today
two thousand made up ready to go. We always, always send back, the only
thing that was outstanding was the money, which every time I met with Joan to
tell her this is what, this is the stage of the application and that is, you know it
wasn't hidden. She felt basically sorry for me because she knew that I'm not a
trouble maker but this was getting to a point of real embarrassment people were
shouting you understand so I gave it I'm not lie about it I don’t use it for anything
23.33 else. I've not been on holiday since I took over here, so it's not like, oh she was
busy you know gallivanting. I've never really shared the responsibility here, the
only problem is that initial money that we borrowed from them and if they'd given
me time I could show you letters that you know people who have applied loan
for, for a re mortgage because of the amount I have. I said I want to secure it on
the property I don't want to do short term loan because short term loan is very
24.12 expensive to pay and if the property has got a mortgage on it I may not have
done it looking at it I was supposed to be hearing from one of them this week.
NB Right so you said that you owe people, you owed people at the early stages of
buying this business
OA Yes
24.36 NB So you owed them at the early stages of buying this business you bought this
business six years ago
OA Yes
NB Well that’s not June or July is it?
OA Me
NB Sorry
OA Me
CSO1SA Version 3.0 11/02
POL00044368
POL00044368
Record of Tape Recorded Interview (continued)
Tape Person Text
counter speaking
times
NB No you said that you owed these people
OA No I owed them but at that time they didn't ask for it, you understand
24.54 NB Right so you owed them for six years
OA Yes I did, I did
NB And how much did you borrow from them
OA £50k, I said fifty thousand
NB Fifty thousand. And what was the purpose of that?
OA It was the initial, because I didn't want to sell my property I wasn’t sure what I
was walking in to, you understand, we were going to move the kids were young
we were going to move down here and I said well if we go forward and the
25.16 forward is not going at least we've got the house to go back to, you understand
so I did not want to sell that because I wasn’t ready to just put all the eggs in one
basket at that time
NB Right
OA So that was when I borrowed the money from them as.
25.40 NB And have you got proof of borrowing this money from them?
OA explains that we can talk to “them” if they agree to talk to us. She anticipates
that they will say this is a family matter and she owes us.
NB So you've got no proof
OA Proof that I owe it to them, I owe it
26.00 NB Yes but have you got any proof
OA explains that the agreement she had with her family was that when things got
better for her financially she would re pay the loan, they were no set instalments
26.23 or contract. She explains that when they realised that she sold the Berkshire
property they wanted their money and they started to put pressure on her. She
confirms that the Berkshire property was sold in 2003 and she was asked why
she did not repay them from the sale of the house.
27.30 OA I know, I Know. Looking back I know but like I explained to you which I would not
lie I was sleeping on the floor here with my husband and the three kids were
sleeping on a bunk bed in one bedroom and it was a case of let me buy this
because if it's off mortgage I can let the property then I can pay them, re
mortgage the property.
28.16 OA explains that the people that she owed the money to did not want to wait for
CSO1SA
her to re mortgage the property at Rainham Road.
Version 3.0 11/02
POL00044368
POL00044368
Record of Tape Recorded Interview (continued)
Tape Person Text
counter speaking
times
OA explains that in the last three months she paid £50k to the friends/family that
she owed.
29.33 OA explains that her plan was to give £10k to her friends/family and then re
mortgage the property in the hope that she could replace the post office funds
and give the remaining £40k to her friends/ family.
OA states that the £10k was given to the friends/family in June
NB Ok and when did they get the remaining
30.22 OA The remaining they came back round about I would say maybe June ending
beginning of July and they said well we've given you enough time....
OA explains that it would take longer than three weeks for a re mortgage to
come through. She confirms that she has approached companies for a re
mortgage and is expecting to hear from one of the company's this week. She
states that during July she repaid £20k and in August she repaid the remaining
32.48 £20k. She confirms that she repaid fifty thousand and has not got any receipts.
OA explains that the previous owner gave her many problems when she was.
trying to purchase the freehold. OA states that she would provide the names of
the friends/family once she has spoken to her husband.
37.10 AM Was it family and friends or was it a loan shark?
OA It wasn't a loan shark, it wasn’t a loan shark
AM It was family and friends but you won't give us their names
OA I can’t because at this point in time as far as they are concerned you owe us that
money why are you dragging us into this, which I can understand. I did not do
anything with that money, apart from what I've said, I did not do nothing. I don't
touch the post office money at all
37.41 NB Well that's not quite true is it
AM In June you say you took ten thousand pounds
OA Sorry
AM In June you said you took ten thousand pounds where did that ten thousand
pounds come from
OA That was when I initially came in
37.55 AM So ok explain to us the actual process what happened
OA I spoke to Joan about it she saw how distressed I was she knew cos I said to her
right now they're threatening to start causing a bit of a problem, I need to give
them something at least then maybe that'll give me time to get a mortgage re
CSO1SA Version 3.0 11/02
POL00044368
POL00044368
Record of Tape Recorded Interview (continued)
Tape Person Text
counter speaking
times
mortgage through which already I started processing as soon as I knew that they
wanted there money
38.20 NB You've known for six years that they've wanted there money
OA I know but I thought the initial at that time things were not strict because
obviously 2000 and 2001 I was at war with the previous owner trying to fight to
get the freehold off her because at that time there was no that was when we
stayed in here when we finally got it. I don't live a luxurious lifestyle I can assure
you but that was the initial stages thing was the money we were spending was
38.54 too much we were spending £600.00 rate, we were giving out £500.00 here
surely mortgage can not be that much if everything was put under one umbrella
and its at that time we were having a lot of war so they knew that I was having
problems with the previous owner
NB Okay so you spoke to Joan, why did you speak to Joan
OA I had to speak to her because
NB Does she own the post office then?
OA No she doesn't. I know, I know
NB Okay so what is her role?
39.35 OA I spoke to her because it's not me I don't steal
NB But you have, haven't you
OA I know
NB You have stolen, it's not your money
OA I know, I know, believe me I know
NB Right well let's ten thousand pounds you paid in June how did you do that you
spoke to Joan and then what
OA I said to her I've applied
40.00 NB Yes you've explained all of that, you were going to apply for a re mortgage
OA And I'd pay the money back
NB But that didn’t happen, so what did you do, did you take ten thousand pounds out
of the safe?
OA I said to her I need ten thousand to give them to get them off my back
NB Right
OA I said as soon as I've got the money off the bank off the mortgage
NB Off the re mortgage
OA I'll give it back. It's a question of at that time in truthfulness I was expecting a
CSO1SA Version 3.0 11/02
POL00044368
POL00044368
Record of Tape Recorded Interview (continued)
Tape Person Text
counter speaking
times
reply of two weeks and I did get a, in principle. I got a letter saying in principle
saying yes.
40.40 OA confirms that she took a combination of notes to pay the debt. OA confirms
that she would not remit as much money as usual to the cash centre. OA
explains that £7k to £10k would be kept in the office and anything above that
figure would be returned.
41.36 NB So how much would you normally have on a Wednesday evening
OA I would say maybe seven ten thousand.
OA confirms that both she and Joan counted out the ten thousand pounds and
42.22 she took the ten thousand pounds and gave it to her friends/family who were
waiting outside in the car. OA explains that her friends/family returned in July
43.27 OA They came back and it was like it's taking you a long time to get the rest of
money because the whole idea was to re mortgage for the money the post office
ten thousand their forty thousand and everybody could go there separate ways
but by that time it wasn't ready it was not ready the money wasn't ready they
came back
AM Right ok
OA And
AM So what did you do then
OA I mentioned it to I came to Joan
AM Right
OA I mentioned it
AM Yes you mentioned it and what did Joan do then
OA She knows, because she knows I wouldn't lie to her, she knows
44.06 AM And what did she do
OA She wasn't very pleased, she wasn't happy, she said how are you gonna pay
this. I said I’m still waiting for the re mortgage to come through and she knows
she saw me speaking to them on the phone once taking down messages for me.
OA states that Joan saw the in principle letter.
AM Have you still got that?
44.40 OA I have at home, I can bring them I can fax you
Buzzer sounds
AM That buzzer means the tape is coming to an end we'll seal these tapes ok and
then we got a few more questions I think we need to
CSO1SA Version 3.0 11/02
POL00044368
POL00044368
Record of Tape Recorded Interview (continued)
Tape Person Text
counter speaking
times
OA I'm so sorry
NB Ok. If you can not talk until we start the new tapes
45.08 AM Ok I'm passing you master tape seal the number 066311. Ok if you could sign
CSO1SA
that for me please
The time is 15.01 I'm now tuming the tapes off
Version 3.0 11/02