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a9? CPR
Ron Warmington
From: Ron Warmington ; C
Sent: 07 May 2014 16:
To: ‘schemeenquiri
Ce: mediatior, i
Subject: FW: Compiéted ‘Case Questionnaire Ms Janet Skinner M097
This came in today from Howe & Co. It refers to an unanswered request for
legal info. This CQR is in our hands for the moment and we will review it, posing
any questions that we find necessary. It will then be submitted to the WG in
the usual way. <
Che ory My
We will probably need to see that Legal File also.
Tene mz Vinee
Best regards, Ron. (eres: Von Ns!
----- Original Messages n2r cece
From: Ron Warmington [ GRO :
Sent: Wednesday, May @7, 2014
To: ‘Graham Cade'; mediationj
Subject: RE: Completed Case Questionnaire Ms Janet Skinner M@97
[x eIl2= The @R
fad (Of belt
Thanks Graham.
----- Original Message-
From: Graham Cade I
Sent: Wednesday, May :
To: ‘mediation... 73 gos
Subject: Completed Case Questionnaire Ms Ms Janet Skinner M@97
Dear Sirs 9
71 *
I enclose the Case Questionnaire completed on behalf of Janet
Skinner. This is the lady that has experienced considerable
difficulty in obtaining her file relating to her criminal
prosecution by the Post Office. Despite the involvement of the
Solicitors Regulation Authority in the case she still has not
received the file.
There remains the slight possibility that her file will be passed
to her, as a consequence this particular questionnaire is submitted
on the basis that we reserve the right to adduce documentation in
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support of our clients application should her file of papers be
forwarded to her by her criminal solicitors.
Graham Cade
Howe & Co
a---- Original,-Massaco.
From: scannert.
Sent: 07 May 2)
To: Graham Cade
Subject: Message from "RNPQ@Q2673361FDE"
77-77 I
This E-mail was sent from "RNP@Q2673361FDE" (Aficio MP C2551).
Scan Date: 07.05.2014 13:28:23 (+0200)
GRO
CASE QUESTIONNAIRE ~ JANET SKINNER
Address: GRO I
Date of Birth:
Name and Address of Post Office: North Bransholme
Branch: 9 Grampian Way
Bransholme
Hull
HU7 5S8Z
FAD Number for Post Office: 174321
BACKGROUND
I, Janet Skinner, of GRO ILL STATE as follows:
1, I set out below to the best of my knowledge and recollection my submissions
in relation to matters I would like to be considered at the mediation
regarding the gross injustice and financial losses suffered by myself as a result
of the failures on the part of the Post Office and the Horizon Computer
System.
2. I want to make it clear at the beginning of the statement that I have not been
able to specify matters and dates precisely as I wish due to the passage of
time since 2006 when I was suspended by the Post Office. I therefore ask
that everything I say below is read with this proviso in mind, I believe that the
Post Office will have records to confirm everything I say.
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Prior to running my own Post Office I had worked for United News from
about February 1994 at Post Offices owned by them. I worked as a counter
clerk during this time. It was job that I did enjoy and it suited my lifestyle at
the time in terms of looking after my children. I recall that when I first
started at the Post Office things were relatively simple and straightforward.
Everything was written down on paper and everyone had access to the paper
record to check every transaction. I do not recall from 1994 to 2006 that I did
not have any problems working for the Post Office and I was never accused of
theft of any property during that time.
{ recall that United News closed down their Post Office operations in August
2003. At that time I was located in a branch in Grandale, which is near Hull.
From November 2003 I started working for Caroline Route who ran a sub Post
Office in North Bransholme, which is also near Hull, When I started working
there she told me that her ambition was to leave the Post Office and she did
discuss with me taking over the premises. I agreed to take over as temporary
Post Mistress and I agreed to take over the two Post Offices she had, North
Bransholme and Bodmin Road . Before I could take over the leases on these
premises they were audited by the Post Office, no problems were disclosed
by the audits. I recall that I only operated Bodmin Road for about 5 months,
this was then closed down as part of the Post Office programme of planned
closures. When the office was closed it was audited once again by the Post
Office and no problems were discovered as a consequence of the audit.
The North Bransholme Post Office was a very busy Post Office. The Post
Office was situated within a general store , I had nothing to do with the day
to day running of the general store I only leased the Post Office part of the
premises. Together with myself there were 4 other members of staff that
were transferred from Caroline Route to me upon the transfer of the Post
Office to me, They were Katherine Ayres, Theresa Holmes, Colleen Cates and
Wendy Lyall. The three of them except Wendy had worked at the branch
before I took it over and Katherine had been there for 10 years. They were
pated <<! 2053." 14
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all very experienced cashiers. From memory I think that one of the
allegations made against me by the Post Office in 2006 was that I had taken
over the staff and had not registered them. I do not think that that could be
true because each of them was registered for using the Horizon System and
they had their own passwords.
6. { first encountered the Post Office new Horizon Accounts System in 2001. Up
to that point we used a paper based accountancy system which was easy to
understand and I think easy to use, it also left a proper audit trail so you
could go back and check whether mistakes had been made. The new
computer system in my view eliminated this paper trail and counter staff just
became input clerks. I recall that I had 3 days training when the Horizon
System was introduced. I do not think that the training was that detailed it
was far more to do with how to enter transactions rather than what to do if
you thought there was an error or problem with the system. There were no
Instructions ever given about that,
7. in terms of operating the new Horizon System I do think that we were left
very much to our own devices, I had two Regional Managers, Diane Hoyle
and Kath Oglesby. I saw one of them at least once every two months,
however, in my view their visits were not really to give us training about
technical aspects of the running of the Post Office, It was more to do with
making sure that the office was clean and tidy, that we were displaying the
correct sales literature, that we were kept up to date with new products that
were being introduced and were properly informed about the withdrawal of
other products. There visits never covered the Horizon System at all indeed I
think we knew more about the system than the Regional Managers did.
8. The members of staff that I inherited from Mrs Route did perform thelr own
weekly balances, however, I did double check them and most of the time I did
not see any problems at all. I also used to do my own balances at the end of
every week. I recall that at the end of 2005, in November, that system was
changed by the Post Office so that we started to submit monthly balances
GRO —
Signed, -naercrernee
10.
rather than a balance every week. To that time I think the only problem I had
discovered was with one of Katherine’s weekly balances. We had found that
she was £1,500.00 down on what, Horizon indicated she should have had in
the till. Back then I assumed that Horizon must be correct and I told her that
she would have to make good that shortfall in her till. She was, actually in
the process of paying it back when the audit happened. This approach is
something Mrs Route, when I took over the Post Office from her had told me
to do. I recall that she encouraged all of us to put aside £2.50 every week
because she said that from time to time minor problems did occur and the
easiest way to sort them out was if we had a kind of pool of cash which we
could then use to cover minor shortages, As that had been the way I was
shown how to operate the branch by Mrs Route I saw no problem with asking
Katherine to pay back the loss that she was showing on her system. I think
that problem occurred in about the middle of 2005.
The first problems I encountered with the Horizon System happened after the
change of the weekly to the monthly audit. I recall doing the monthly
balance at the end of January 2006 and finding that I was £7,000.00 short. 1
was very shocked by this and I recall staying in the branch until 11.00 p.m.
that night and getting in again at 7.00 a.m. the next morning double checking
everything to see how the loss had happened. I could find nothing at all to
explain the loss,as I could not explain it I just decided to hide the loss by
putting it into another stock unit. I know that it was wrong but at that stage I
was still fairly confident that the loss would correct itself as I believed fault
was with the horizon system and I was certain that I had done nothing wrong.
In February 2007 rather than the loss reducing I found that it had doubled
again to £14,000.00, again I was very worried about this and undertook
further investigations. I also asked the other staff to double check my figures
and none of us could explain how we had arrived at a £14,000.00 loss, The
loss went up again in the March of 2006 to £21,000.00 both times I was
becoming very concerned about the loss. I was closely watching the staff to
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11,
12.
see if there were any signs that anyone was doing anything untoward but I
detected no signs of that, everyone was acting perfectly normally and I really
could not account for the losses that were showing on the system. When you
first take on a Post Office you are asked to sign a contract by the Post Office,
which is quite onerous. One of the condition is that the Post Master is
responsible for any loss howsoever caused and I was conscious of the fact
that unless I could discover how these losses had occurred I would be
responsible for paying the loss back .By March 2006 the loss was showing
£21,000.00.
In May 2006 I recall I was approached by two Regional Managers Kath
Oglesby and Diane Hoyle, they advised me that they would have to do a
check of the branch and at that stage I did advise them of the loss which I
thought was £35,000.00. I did explain to them that I had no explanation as to
how the losses had arisen, I did say that I wanted the problem sorted and I
asked if the branch could be audited.
I recall that the next day I received a visit from the Post Office Auditors, they
turned up unannounced at the branch and conducted an audit that day, Asa
result of the audit I was told that the loss at the branch was in fact
£59,000.00. I was extremely shocked by this. I had no idea how the losses
had occurred, As a result of the audit I was suspended immediately by the
Post Office. On completion of the audit I received a telephone call from the
investigator requesting that I attend a meeting at a main Post Office in Hull
the next day. I recall that when I arrived at the main Post Office we had to
transfer the meeting to the local Police Station because the Post Office
recording apparatus was not working properly. I recall that I was cautioned
at the end of the Interview. I remember being interviewed by two people
and I think that my staff were interviewed. I do not think that during this so
called investigation process that any effort was made by the Post Office to
actually investigate the cause of the loss. My own impression was that as the
Horlzon System showed the trading loss of £59,000.00 it was automatically
Dated </", os LY
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13.
14,
15,
16.
assumed by the Post Office investigators that I must have stolen the money,
At no stage was the Horizon System investigated and no other investigations
were carried out to find out what really happened and how the loss had
happened. During my interview I informed the investigators that I believed
that the loss was caused by a fault in the Horizon system
I recall that I was asked by the Post Office to produce my bank account
details, presumably for them to check whether or not I had appropriated the
alleged missing money for myself, At no stage did anyone ever find any proof
that I had stolen any money from the Post Office.
I was charged with theft from my employer a charge to which I pleaded not
guilty and I was charged with a second count of false accounting. As 1 knew
that I had tried to hide the losses when they first started to occur I did plead
guilty to that. I was also advised by my solicitors that if I pleaded gullty I
might receive a lesser sentence. I was told that the Prosecution would accept
the not guilty plea of theft from my employer and that charge would be
dropped.
{recall that I appeared at The Hull Crown Court on Friday 5 January 2007 and
I was sentenced on 2 February 2007. Much to my surprise I was sentenced to
9 months in prison and I was sent to Wakefield Prison. I was transferred to a
semi open prison somewhere in the South of England, nowhere near Hull. I
was released from prison on 12 April 2007 but i had to wear a tag for the rest
of the 9 months sentence and I was subject to a curfew, basically I had to be
home before7.00 p.m. every day. I also had to make frequent visits to my
local Probation Office.
Whilst I ran the North Bransholme Branch I received a payment from the Post
Office for £4,600.00 per month. Out of this I had to pay staff wages and my
over heads such as the lease, however, I was always left with about £1,500.00
to £1,800.00 at the end of each month. Before problems developed with the
Post Office I had separated from my husband and we were going through
Dated-Z / (O38 4%
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17.
18.
19.
divorce proceedings, as part of the settlement I was obliged to pay him
£25,000,00, As a consequence of this the matrimonial home was then
transferred to me.
! have mentioned In this statement that I think the Post Office Investigators
automatically assumed guilt. I strongly feel during the interviews that the
investigators were aware of my divorce settlement and assumed that I had
taken the money from the Post Office to pay off my husband, which is simply
not the case.
After my suspension in May 2006 I had no income, I fell behind with the
mortgage and the mortgage company started repossession proceedings
against me. Fortunately I was able to sell the property and this was done
before the repossessing order was granted. However, by the time it came to
sell the property I incurred so many charges in terms of late payments and
extra interest that I only raised £1,400.00 from the sale. 1! think the Post
Office thought that I was trying to hide the proceeds of the sale from them
and I ended up in court again for them to enforce a confiscation order.
Eventually after further investigations were carried out it was accepted that I
had only received very little from the sale, however, I was ordered to pay
£1,400.00 to the Post Office rather than keep it myself and I still have the
confiscation order hanging over my head. If in the future I come into any
lump sum of money, for example through elther an Inheritance or from
winning the lottery I would have to pay the outstanding amount of
£57,000.00 that the Post Office say I owe to them.
I do feel very strongly that I did nothing wrong, I now think that the losses
showed up as a result of faults in the Horizon System rather than as a result
of any action that I might have taken, I have mentioned already in this
statement that when the losses started to show I did everything I could to
double check where the losses might have come from ! also had other
members of staff double check what I was doing and none of us could
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20.
21,
22,
with the Horizon System rather than with me and I do feel very strongly that I
have been falsely prosecuted. My life really has been very badly affected by
what I have gone through. As a result of the criminal process my story was
featured on the front cover of the Hull Daily Mail, our local paper on at least
two accasions and I feel my local reputation has been very badly affected, I
now have a criminal conviction on my record and I have lost both my home
and my income,
Fortunately I did not own the branch where I was trading the Post Office kept
that running indeed within a month they had appointed a new manager to
take over from me.
After being suspended by the Post Office I did eventually find work as an
office temp. I started working for an agency in November 2007 but stopped
work in September 2008 shortly after I had been to court again in connection
with the confiscation order. I was admitted to hospital in September 2008
and the 's, which is a
very debilitating condition as a consequence I am now suffering from muscle
wasting and have a great deal of difficulty walking and I am now registered
disabled,
I do think that the stress that I was placed under as a result of the
proceedings taken against me by the Post Office regarding the alleged
missing £59,000.00 have played a major part in the condition that I have now
suffered and the physical problems that I suffer today. The period during
2006 and 2008 was a complete nightmare for me. Prison was horrendous
and I know the whole case and the publicity had a considerable impact on my
family, and, in particular my two children who were aged 14 and 18 at the
time that I was sentenced to jail. In fact when I was in Jall I refused to allow
my children to come and visit me I was so devastated by the whole
experience,
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23.
24,
' have been asked what I would like to achieve from mediation. First and
foremost I want to bring the Post Office to account, I have been treated and I
am sure many others have been treated in an unreasonable and shoddy
manner. They have made allegations of wrong doing against me without any
proper investigation or evidence to support this allegation. I would like the
criminal conviction struck off and I would like a full apology published by the
Post Office. I want financial compensation for the losses that I have suffered
in particular the loss of earnings that I have suffered since being suspended
by the Post Office in May 2006 and I want the Post Office to pay the legal
costs that I may incur as a result of going through the mediation process.
I confirm that the contents of this statement are true to the best of my
knowledge and belief.
STATEMENT OF TRUTH
! confirm the contents of this Care Questionnaire are true to the best of my
knowledge and belief,
Signedh cereeevevel oesecsesee sees
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