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Regular Call re Horizon Issues
Meeting 19/07/13
Attendees:
Team/Function Attendees
Legal Ben Thorp
Andrew Parsons
Martin Smith
Financial Services Centre (FSC) Rod Ismay
Security Dave Posnett
Rob King
Communications Sophie Bialaszewski
Ruth X Barker
Network Nick Beal
Gayle A Peacock
Information Technology & Change Steve Beddoe
Jeff Burke
Network Business Support Centre (NBSC) Kendra Dickinson
Name Area Issues/Observations/Comments
Rob King Security
Outlined the purpose of the meeting; to identify any
issues around the integrity of horizon from a technical
prospective and take any necessary action.
A process needs to be set up within each directorate
where each representative proactively seeks out any
technically with horizon.
No minutes circulated, but we will be taking notes. In
scope were issues and problems the group were made
aware of.
Outlined issues from a security prospective, interview
techniques amended to allow for horizon error defence,
statement produced to inform subject “not here to
discuss second sight review
Expanded - Security are changing attitude and ways of
interviewing under caution; faults and training are
incorporated into interviews now, countering
suggestions that Horizon is to blame for losses,
statement drafted along the lines of ‘we are not here to
talk about 2" Sight Review, we are here to talk about
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Martin Smith Legal Confirmed it was good that Horizon wasn’t discussed at
length during interviews under caution and also the use
of template statement. Would like to be appraised of
developments re interviewing and to have sight of
statement and scripts.
Clarification on disclosure and email correspondence.
Emphasised need to ensure that any document
produced would be potentially disclosable.
Dave Posnett Security Reporting of issues by current or former SPMRs would
be through publicised channels (Focusonline issue 164
and Intranet ... for current SPMRs:
branch.support.team
SPMRs: contract.admin.team:
for forme!
Andrew Legal Commented on need to limit public debate on the
Parsons Horizon issue as this may have a detrimental impact on
future litigation.
Ben Thorp Legal Indicated that Legal also deal with civil cases and they
are conscious of cases that go into the public domain.
Legal have a watching brief at the moment, monitoring
whether any issues are referred to public courts before
the 2" Sight final report later this year.
Rod Ismay FSC Brought this topic to the Operating Board, regarding
consequences and impact on FSC, Security, etc. One
area of concern was briefing/guidance/training on
hazardous goods, mail instructions, DVLA, etc ... how
do we get guidance down to say 7 pages to make life
easier - not joined up . Several pieces of work on going
that needed some form of overview, ensuring correct
message going out with a coordinated approach.
The number of training reviews/reviewees was also
highlighted (elongated) and the need for non/less
professional personnel to get involved and sign off
training aspects, material, guides, etc.
Internet chat rooms — noted that chat rooms and forums
have sprung up. Origin of one was Yahoo mail. Local
groups/others have instigated chat rooms re giving
advice (perhaps in good faith) . Question — what can
we do about this? Currently no evidence of forums
being used to give malicious advice to defend
accusations of impropriety
Debt conversations are materialising (not widespread at
the moment) — discussions with SPMRs alluding to
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Horizon, but considered a fact of life given the publicity.
Nick Beal Network Confirmed that SPMR’s who coach others (e.g.
experienced/good SPMRs) isn’t signed off by POL.
POL has no oversight and no resource to oversight.
Possibly an opportunity moving forward as an idea
which could assist in supporting SPMRs.
Sophie Communications Asked if there was a ‘Handling Plan’ or master list of
Bialaszewski cases from which to deal with i.e. a definitive list of all
Horizon referrals (2? Sight, referrals to Branch Support,
Contract Admin, etc. Consensus was that there is no
definitive list and that there are numerous working
groups and channels for capturing Horizon issues.
Ruth Barker Communications Mentioned piece in The Telegraph, where MPs were
vocal about Horizon and constituents, but that these
didn’t form part of the 47 cases referred to 2" Sight.
Concerned that there was no definitive list of all cases
that MPs currently have or may in the future enquire
about.
Dave Posnett Security Confirmed that security did not have a master list of all
issues, unclear if anyone can respond to potential
query ... appears there is currently no central point of
contact for queries.
Rob King Security Pointed out that is was likely that offenders previously
dealt with for non-Horizon issues, such as ATM
investigations may now allege a miscarriage of justice.
Andrew Legal Stated all lists and spreadsheets should be sent to
Parsons Rosie Gaisford for collation.
Spoke about emails, written comms, etc ... if it's
produced it’s then available for disclosure, if it’s not
then technically it isn’t.
Gayle Peacock I Network Volunteered to arrange/consider collation of all issues
into definitive list.
Gayle or Network?? - Concerned about straight
forward communication issues brought forward by
CWU/NFSP were being presented as Horizon technical
issues
Nick Beal Network Referred to the need to communicate to the business
how we are dealing with the Horizon issues/problems ...
to advise people out there. This should be a feeder into
Angela’s work — central data, opportunity, reputation.
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NFSP robust in defence of Horizon (disappointed in the
interim report). Need to keep their support (tensions,
participation in working groups, etc).
Response to non-Horizon cases; action has been taken
re discussions on suspensions ... Contract managers
are considering carefully whether to suspend (amount
and whether repaid will come into equation).
Steve Beddoe I Info Sec Fujitsu are looking at SLA’s, responses, etc ... no
problems thus far. Info Sec to continue to support and
factor in the right people to test.
Number of activities underway to correct issues quickly
and enhanced performance (smaller things)
discussed/agreed with NFSP ... not new but reviewing
workloads in Info Sec a top priority.
Kendra NBSC Work is feeding into Gayle’s area, have had some
Dickinson SPMRs make contact (following Focus and intranet
instructions as to where to direct issues from current
and former SPMRs). No big hits, looking at supporting
branches, Help, Guidance ... feeding into whole thing.
Dave Posnett I Security Agreed with attendees
Action Points
1. Rob to forward statement template and interim measure document to Martin Smith.
2. Gayle/Nick to liaise with Dave/Rob offline where appropriate.
3. Generate a list of past and current cases [query who is responsible to produce this?]
4. Legal and network to hold meeting offline to determine where requests should be
channelled and define processes for communicating out to interested parties. NB
Martin Smith; CK would need to be made aware of all requests for information
[technical faults] regardless of whether it was horizon that may impact on a current
or previous case [Not sure who took this action up Gayle??]
5. Dave to send out meeting invites (conference call on Wednesdays 10.00am to end
of September)
The following to be invited to attend future conference calls, with each team/function
responsible for ensuring a representative is present.
Team/Function Attendees
Legal
Financial Services Centre (FSC)
Security
Communications
Network
Information Technology & Change
Network Business Support Centre (NBSC)
Rodric Williams
Jarnail Singh
Andrew Parsons
Martin Smith
Rod Ismay
Andrew Winn
Dave Posnett
Rob King
Sophie Bialaszewski
Ruth X Barker
Nick Beal
Gayle A Peacock
Steve Beddoe
Jeff Burke
Kendra Dickinson
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